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The Current Transcript for December 24, 2018

Host: Michelle Shephard

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Mary, Jesus and Trump? Nativity scenes feature 'uncensored' take on life in Naples

Guests: Megan Williams

[Music: Theme]

MICHELLE SHEPHARD: The creche or nativity scene featuring the biblical figures of Mary, Joseph, baby Jesus and more may be one of the oldest Christmas decorations you'll see. But, this year, a few nativity scenes have been particularly with the times. In Montreal, one creche shows Joseph and Mary taking a selfie with Jesus and the three wisemen are on segways, bearing boxes from Amazon. The hipster scene of course has had its critics, but Saint Joseph's Oratory Church has defended it, saying depictions of Christ's birth have always been a reflection of the world we live in. Getting creative with the creche is part of its centuries old history. Their story begins long ago in the southern Italian city of Naples and that's where our Italy correspondent and regular Current guest host, Megan Williams, traveled recently. She's with me now from Rome. Hi Megan.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Hi Michelle.

MS: You were just in the southern city of Naples, the birthplace of the creche. Can you take us back to where they originate?

MW: Sure. Well let's start with one of my favorite cities in the whole world, which is Naples, which is this spectacular sprawling urban chaos overlooking the Mediterranean Sea, a couple of hours drive south of Rome. And I want to take you right into one of the cultural jewels of the city, which is the National Archeological Museum there. So I popped in one day to check out a new exhibit of erotic art from Pompei, but before I could make it up the stairs, I was sidelined by this elaborate creche being set up in the atrium of the museum. So picture a long boardroom-sized table covered with sculpted hills and caves and a Roman temple. So bustling around this are all these older guys carrying foot-long figurines of animals and people, as well as props, things like carts and wine barrels and so on. And so I went up to a couple of them because I was curious and they were taking a pizza break, what else in Naples, and so I asked them who they were and what was this amazing scene in the middle of the museum atrium.

[Group of people speaking in Italian]

MW: It turns out that they were all members of the Association of Neopolitan Creches or Presepi as they're called in Italian and they introduced me to a rather natty gentleman in a white lab coat named Vincenzo Nicollela, who turned out to be the artistic director of the association.

[Italian speech]

MW: Now the first thing Vincenzo told me is that the traditional Christmas nativity scene began appearing in Naples in the 14th century and they started out as life-sized, carved, wooden depictions of Mary and Joseph and the wisemen and all dressed up as Neapolitan nobility. And about 400 years later, so in the 1700s, these rather staid nativity recreations busted out of the churches and into people's homes, where they were transformed into something entirely different. Here's Vincenzo with an English translation.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: The Neapolitan creche is secular. It was born in the homes of aristocrats, who used the nativity scene as a pretext to create their own universe, which is nothing other than Naples, during the mid-1700s. Every noble household would commission architects to design the creche and artists to make the figures. In them, they would depict everything important that happened that year. Crimes, political events, but, above all, everything that happened to the family members and servants of that household. q

MS: Okay we've got crimes, political events, everything that happened to the family members and the servants of that household. That's a lot going on in one creche. Physically, how big are these?

MW: Some of these can be huge, just like the one in the museum atrium. Certainly in the 1700s, they would cover long tables and the more extravagant ones would run the length of two or three rooms in the apartments of these noble people and not only that, but Vicenzo told me some people would keep them up all year long.

MS: When they move them to their homes, did they lose the main characters or would you still see Mary, Joseph and Jesus in all of these creches?

MW: They're in there, but they kind of play bit parts. You know there are angels and shepherds and the wisemen and so on, but the real protagonist is 18th century Naples and its vast array of incredibly vividly depicted street characters. The pickpocket for instance is a classic character in the Neapolitan creche, along with you know there's the fishmongerer, the washer woman, there's the beggar, the prostitute, the gambler, the murderer, the drunk. And what's really interesting is that a lot of the characters that seem profane or everyday, actually have symbolic or religious links that go way way back to polytheistic ancient Greek times or the early centuries of Christianity, before there was an established canonical Bible. Here's Vincenzo Nicollela again, talking about typical scenes in the Neapolitan creche that come from what we now think of as the apocryphal gospels, which you know are the stories that didn't make it into to the Bible.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: According to the so-called Gospel of Thomas, it was washer women, not the three wisemen who came to a manger. The story goes that they arrived when Mary was still in labour and helped her give birth. And that's why washer women are always depicted in the Neapolitan scene. But you even have figures with pre-Roman pagan roots related to the Greek mythology. This fat man here throwing up his hands in front of another turned cart with barrels of wine is called. Ciccibacco. Cicibacco is the Neopolitan version of Bacchus or Dionysus, the God of Wine, pleasure, intoxication. Until the Renaissance, every Christmas night, Neapolitans would hold processions in honor of the gods disposed by Jesus. Ciccibacco would head the parade, then the Catholic Church banned the processions, but all the prohibited characters continued to live on in the Neopolitcan creche.

MS: You know what's so interesting about what he just said, is that it sounds like the creches in Naples became a way to circumvent censorship in a way.

MW: I think you're right and I don’t think that's overstating things. You know even outlawed revolutionaries or controversial political figures would pop up in the creches. I was just there and there were out on the streets, you know the vendors were selling the figurines and the creches themselves, there were a lot of figures of the orange-haired man with the long red tie on sale, beside little baby Jesus.

MS: So let's see, you've got orange hair, long red tie, if he's sitting there tweeting in caps, I would think we’re talking about the U.S. president.

MW: That's right. But I think what the Neopolitan creche really offers is a kind of uncensored and unhypocritical expression of life in this city and also there's this wonderful space where imagination and fantasy and ancient myths and stories can be told and retold.

MS: Is it just rich Neopolitans who created these parallel universes in their homes?

MW: Well it was until the late 19th century and again another technical breakthrough in how the figures were made was responsible for changing that and that was the mass production using molds and clay, or terracottas as the Italians call it and so suddenly the figures became smaller and a lot cheaper and most people in Naples, namely poor, I mean Naples is a city with a lot of poor people, they could afford to set up their own creches. And they would use wood or cork or paper mâché or fairly inexpensive materials to build the structure and then populate it with these little clay figurines. And they're on sale all throughout Italy, but there's one specific street in Naples that's the epicenter of the Neopolitan creche and it sells the figurines and the structures themselves all year long and that's San Gregorio Armeno. So picture a narrow, steep cobblestone street in the heart of Naples with little artisanal shops on either side and tables out front crammed with hundreds of tiny clay baby Jesus' and cows and sheep and tiny, tiny, tiny plates of spaghetti and loaves of bread and then of course that whole cast of Neapolitan Street characters.

MS: What about that tradition you spoke of adding scenes or characters from the year that just passed. Has that still continued?

MW: Absolutely. I you know I recently went to San Gregorio Armeno and I was there fairly early one morning, as the shopkeepers were opening up and you know putting the tables out front and I spoke to one shopkeeper who was setting up this year's new additions. So, you know, it's usually like Italian pop stars or social media influencers or soccer players. I mean the Portuguese superstar Cristiano Ronaldo is a huge seller and then people from other walks of life too.

[Italian speech]

MS: Now I confess, I don't speak Italian, but I think I did catch something there about Italian politics.

MW: Yeah exactly. So poorly disguised. Yeah well that Johnny was pointing out the two new kids on the nativity block this year and that is the leader of the far right League Party Matteo Salvini and the populist Five Star movement leader Luigi Di Maio. Now neither of these two politicians got enough votes in the March elections to become prime minister, so they're locked in a power struggle right now, which Salvini kind of seems to be winning. He's very media savvy. You know like on Facebook, he alternates between his anti-migrant rants with posts of kittens and his favourite foods. So he really like he has the populist thing down pat.

[Italian speech]

MW: Johnny's figure of Salvini is waving at crowds, but a lot of the others I noticed being sold in San Gregorio Armeno have him holding up a smartphone, which is you know of course a reference to all his posts and his tweets.

[Laughter]

MS: Something got you laughing there, what amused you?

MW: Yeah you know what I was talking Johnny I noted that figure he's selling of the populist leader Luigi Di Maio, who's from Naples and whose only 31 looks really quite old and Johnny replied Di Maio was born an old man. So Il.

MS: He's not a fan I guess.

MW: Not a fan.

MS: Are there any non-Italian figures?

MW: Yeah, there are. I mean there are and you know as we talked about earlier, there were lots of Trumps with his what Johnny described as his fluffy orange buffon.

[Italian speech]

MS: And is it only Italians that are buying these nativity figures?

MW: For the most part, but I did speak to a couple of tourists from Scandinavia, Paul and Emily, who were really taken by the city and the creches.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: We bought a creche or with a manger and a real one and that was lit and with an angel on top and one with two dogs, because one we got one of our, we got a new dog this summer, so we had to add an extra dog for the manger for baby Jesus and then we got the three holy men. So it was complete. It was complete.

VOICE 2: I was surprised by that everything was made in Napoli, in Naples because I think everywhere else it would be made in China. And also I was surprised by the story that it's not Christ and it's what has happened during the year that is to make a story of the year. So they're taking out the religion from it. That surprised me in the Catholic Italy.

MS: Now Paul said that he was surprised that religion was taken out of it and it was more secular, but is it still linked to Christmas time?

MW: Yes of course. I mean you know there's still obviously the figure of Jesus and Mary and Joseph in there, but the thing that a lot of people might not know about Italians is that they're not particularly religious. I mean they don't go to church any more than anybody else in the western world and perhaps even less so. And that's you know despite the fact that the Vatican's right here, but they do still put up the creches, at least the southern Italians and certainly Italians who come from Naples. And nobody I know does it better than my Neopolitan friend Fabio and his kids.

[Italian speech]

MW: That's Fabio in his apartment listing of all the different scenes in his yearly creche. I went by his place recently, as he and his daughter Renata were beginning construction on their new annual creche. Every year, they build a new creche from scratch. So when I got there they'd set up this long folded table that's like their special creche table that they keep you know tucked away throughout the rest of the year and they had stacks of newspaper and flour and water that's sort of for the glue and were beginning the process of scrunching the paper into balls to make hills and valleys and then they were you know they'd lay out this wet newspaper on top to form this varied terrain. Here's Renata describing the process.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: It's a complex and it's a long process. Twenty days, one week is just for set everything up, like the old journals, the glue, but the glue has to get dry and we build like mountains, the hills, the river.

MW: Then later they'll add the little figurines.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: Most of these shepherds are from the great grandparents and so in fact a lot of these are more than a hundred years old. Never bought, but always passed to generation to generation, three or four hundred.

MS: That's incredible that they have three or four hundred little figurines. And what happens when Christmas is over, what happens to the creche then?

MW: Well you know the one that Fabio and Renata and family make, they destroy it every year. Here's Renatta again.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: One of the beautiful thing and one of the reason why we destroy it is because every year we change the story and yeah the scenes. So he chose the shepherds based on the story he wants to tell.

MS: And how does Fabio feel about it?

MW: He says as he's gotten older there's a kind of melancholy to the tradition and that has to do with how he feels his city has changed.

[Italian speech]

MW: You know he says Naples obviously has always been a city of extremes. It's overwhelmingly populated by poor people and it has a tiny upper class or it has traditionally and it hasn't had a middle class, you know like unlike a lot of other European cities.

[Italian speech]

MW: And he says it's the poor working class that has really given Naples its soul and its characters and Neapolitans renown as this open, generous, vivacious people, which they really do have that reputation here in Italy. But Fabio moved his family from Naples a few years ago to live in Rome and he said you know the reason he made that decision is that he felt his city had just changed for the worse.

MS: What about his daughter Renata, does she feel the same way?

MW: She's more optimistic. I mean she grew up partially in Naples and partially in Rome. She's you know she's in her early 20s now and she's you know she said she's looking forward to starting the tradition with her own kids, to inheriting some of those figurines that were from her great great great grandparents. And she says for her it's not so much about Naples the city, but it's about the Neopolitan, the importance that Neapolitans give to family life, those large intergenerational families that you know Italians are famous for, but especially Neapolitans.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: In Naples, we have a very important concept of family and tradition and probably something important also in the young world.

MS: So hope, there's hope that this tradition will keep on.

MW: Oh for sure, it'll keep going and you know I think it will evolve and reflect the changes, not only in Naples, but in the lives of everybody who keeps up this tradition.

MS: Megan Williams, thanks so much for bringing us the story.

MW: You're so welcome.

MS: Megan Williams is an Italy correspondent based in Rome. You can see pictures of the nativity scenes and all the characters we just heard about on our website at cbc.ca/thecurrent.

Back To Top »

Becoming Santa: Ottawa man carries on legacy of vintage red suit

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Knocking on door]

VOICE: Oh. Hey it's very festive in here.

MICHAEL MORIN: Yes I started it actually a little earlier than usual. Put up the new Christmas tree and the decorations, new stuff, old stuff, stuff I painted myself. Like a cookie jar right there. Now I finish my face before I start getting dressed. And like I said the suit is really warm so that goes on last. It's really stunning. I mean it's made of wool. It's lined with satin. It's trimmed in sheepskin. I figure it's about 45 years old. I don't know the exact age of it but I noticed Larry had it since I think about 2010.

[Music]

MYKE HUTCHINGS: My name is Myke Hutchings. I'm a musician from Hamilton, Ontario and Santa Larry Lantz was my husband. I used to joke that our house was the island of misfit toys because you'd go there and there'd be the oddest assortment of people that Larry met just, you know, lost souls who needed someone to talk to or someone to listen to them and that was basically who Larry was. He was head of a charity called Santa Canada which provided hospital visits or hospice visits or home visits for children with terminal disease year round. For several years he was actually in Hamilton the official Center for Autism Ontario. And he would do low stimulus visits with Santa. Well Larry and I always enjoyed having households filled with people so we threw house concerts in our house. Our living room is quite large and we also have a beautiful backyard with a deck and everything. So during the summer months we'd have the concerts out on the back deck.

MICHAEL MORIN: We did a house concert at [unintelligible] husband's house and that evening we met Larry and on the front porch of their house Larry told us about the work he did and that was the only conversation I ever had with Larry was about him in his work. And I was fascinated.

MYKE HUTCHINGS: Larry was in between chemotherapy treatments. He was declared tumor free at the time but things were not quite right. So Larry was very quiet that night. And Michael tends to be a very quiet very private individual too. So they just sort of gravitated towards each other. I had a household filled with people. A household filled with big brash personalities and Michael and Larry just sort of connected that night.

MICHAEL MORIN: Of course it left an impression. I thought it was wonderful work that he did.

[Music]

MYKE HUTCHINGS: By the time the evening was done Larry was very very tired and I actually had to physically carry him up to bed. Then the next day I called the oncology team and said hey look we need to see a doctor soon because things are good here. It was six weeks after they met that Larry passed away. And on his deathbed we had the will but there was just a number of items that were not covered in the will. And I just sort of said what do you want me to do with all the Santa stuff. We had multiple suits, we had boots, we had belts. You know basically all the ephemera one would expect the jolly old elf to carry with him at any given time. And he outlaid you know specific things and then one of the last things he said I want you to keep the Jimmy Lomax suit and give it to Michael Morin when he's ready.

MICHAEL MORIN: I only found out about the suit basically two years after he died. Based on the little conversation we had on that front porch he basically chose me.

JIM LOMAX: You got to do it for the children you've got to give them faith. You give the parents hope.

ANNOUNCER: Yes Virginia Santa Claus is a steelworker. His name is Jim Lomax.

MYKE HUTCHINGS: The suit was first owned by Jimmy Lomax and he was Hamilton's official Santa for decades.

JIM LOMAX: I wanted to be a Santa Claus when I grew up.

ANNOUNCER 1: A dream he pursued while he worked for close to 38 years at Hamilton Stelco plant.

ANNOUNCER 2: This Santa visits places like hospitals and nursing homes.

ANNOUNCER 1: In 2002 he retired to become a full time Kris Kringle.

JIM LOMAX: Makes me feel great.

ANNOUNCER 1: I've actually seen some patients the most happiest they've ever been.

JIM LOMAX: You get up to heaven the good Lord isn't going to say how much money you have in a bank. We invest in people.

MYKE HUTCHINGS: Jimmy ran a organization called Operation Santa Claus and he would fundraise for the entire year for children who were in hospitals, children who were in abject poverty and he would provide a Christmas for these children. You know he was size 6XL towards the end of his life and his heart was just as big. It was just incredible. When Jimmy got too sick to run the charity and also got too sick to be Santa Claus he reached out to Larry and Larry's friends Santa Bob and just basically asked us to help them carry on the charity and spirit of Christmas for him. So that suit is the one that Larry wore towards the end of his life. So it's nice to see the legac of Larry. It's nice to see the legacy of Jimmy Lomax continuing on in a new city and with a new heart behind it.

[Music]

MICHAEL MORIN: Earlier this morning I started what Tim Allen call the Santafication process. My beard is still a little bit salt and pepper so it needs a bit of help to really look authentic. So I use theatrical hairpins.

KRISTEN NELSON: So how long does the Santafication process take?

MICHAEL MORIN: First time it took about two hours just because it's still relatively new to me and I'm learning as I go. All right . So next is Padding. I do have a bit already but my doctor wants me to get rid of that so. The suit was made for Jimmy and Jimmy was not a small man. He also had a very endearing face which is what enabled him to portray Santa so genuinely and he had a big heart.

MYKE HUTCHINGS: I began seeing what Larry meant by one Michael is ready give him the suit.

MICHAEL MORIN: I do remember that when we came home, that's all I could talk about with my friends and co-workers that I met this wonderful person that did this amazing work dressed as Santa Claus.

MYKE HUTCHINGS: You just began seeing things in Michael's demeanor and how he was changing dressing differently and had grown out his beard to be a little bit fuller. And he began twisting his moustache into the handlebar shape. And then I messaged him and just sort of said 'so when you're ready I've got some stuff here at the house for you.' And he immediately knew what I talk was talking about.

MICHAEL MORIN: Honestly I was in tears. I was on the bus heading to work and I was in tears. That day December 23 it is the anniversary of my father's death. He passed away in 2003. Being Two days before Christmas. It was it was really hard and my father was always a big fan of Christmas. He would put up lights everywhere and I do mean everywhere. And I have really amazing memories of Christmas because of my dad stuff that he would do. He would actually go on the roof and make the sleigh tracks and reindeer footprints and stomp around so that we'd be in the bedroom below and we could hear stuff. Christmas really holds a special place in my heart. It always has. And. Doing this now is you know even more special.

MYKE HUTCHINGS: I was actually overjoyed to see the suit being used. I knew that the bug had bitten him when he tried on the suit. And I gave him time. You know I went down to visit with the other folks in the house and just sort of said 'take what time if you want to try it on go ahead' and he came down with the suit bag that had everything in it. He came down the box that had everything in it and he came down with tears in his eyes. It was a definite connection that went a lot deeper than you know the suit fits. It's a state of heart I think is the best way I can describe it.

MICHAEL MORIN: I guess more and more the part a couple of weeks ago my mom and I were at Costco and we just walk by this mother with the young child sitting on the carts, child was about two and a half years old, and she just looked at me walk by and said 'Ho Ho Ho'. That's all she said and I really liked that. I really embrace that I - At first I didn't know how to react but now I'm just rolling with it and just having fun. And you know they think it is Santa. So I love it. Next I need to put a little makeup on my face just to make my cheeks little red and my lips a little darker. I do have to be careful to go really really like.

KRISTEN NELSON: You made sure to get the cherry nose. I see.

MICHAEL MORIN: Yes exactly. To make sure that I look like I've just come off the sleigh. So next I need to put the boots on and I need to tuck the pants inside. I add these boot toppers and voila instant Santa boots. [Music] I sometimes get very emotional. I don't know if you can see on the wall there beside my nightstand there's a picture of me sitting on Santa's lap. I found that photo above 15 years ago at my parents basement. So now it's framed beside my bed. My own memories of Christmas are so amazing that if I can bring that to people in general, yes I do want to focus on you know children and in hospital and stuff like that, but you know any occasion is a great occasion to bring the Christmas spirit. So I will be going to visit this child 11 years old, who will be at home and who has severe health issues that the family doesn't know if he'll make it to Christmas or not. I'm told that he loves to have stories for bed times. So I have a collection of Christmas books that I'll bring along and read to him and spend quality time. When I first found out about the suit, I knew right away that I wanted to do this to follow in Larry's footsteps. And yes I was nervous at the thought of doing those kinds of visits. But now that it's happening, the nervousness isn't there. I'm actually really looking forward to it. I know it will be emotional but it just feels right. I knew the suit belonged to Larry but when I found out where it originally came from. I got really humbled by the whole thing and to to think that I'm following in the footsteps of these great Santas, these great people. Yes I do feel that I'm part of their legacy. [Music] The beard of the way to snap the color and then it's just finishing touches. [Sounds: Bells] One of the last things is the clouds. These also came from Larry, they're white leather gauntlets. I may or may not wear these generic reading glasses from the dollar store and when I saw those I said 'okay those are meant for Santa'. So basically that's it. That's... I'm ready to go.

Lynn: Hello Mr. Santa. How are you?

MICHAEL MORIN: Good, how are you?

Lynn: Good. Ho Ho Ho I'm sure the residents will be all happy. My name is when I'm the director of Care. This home is a home with people in special needs. There are schizophrenic people.

Suzanne: We are like a big family here.

Lynn: And that is Suzanne.

Suzanne: Yes.

Lynn: She's my assistant.

Suzanne: Shall we go up?

MICHAEL MORIN: Ho Ho Ho. [Chatter] I have to say normally I'm a very introverted person and very shy, very reserved. I'm the type that in a crowd. I will watch and observe. I'm more of a one on one conversation.

Lynn: Okay. Guys come on. Have a seat.

MICHAEL MORIN: But when I put the suit on and I go into a crowd I start being more. Low more extroverted. I go up to people because people are drawn to me when I'm dressed this way. And so it's easier to make contact.

VOICE 1: Hey Santa.

MICHAEL MORIN: Hey. How are you doing? [Chatter] I'm not one of those loud boisterous Santas. You know there are some and those are great kids who enjoy that too but that's not who I am. I'm a little quieter. I still do the usual Santa things like the 'Ho Ho Ho.'

VOICE 2: Merry Christmas

MICHAEL MORIN: Merry Christmas. Ho Ho Ho. [Chatter] But now I'll be more inclined to have one on one conversations.

VOICE 3: Hi Santa Claus. I wish you a ood Christmas and a happy new year. Will you wish that to me?

MICHAEL MORIN: Yes. Absolutely. And I wish you that it's Christmas every day, even better. How about that? [Laughter] This is what it's all about. This really is what it's all about.

[French singing]

MICHAEL MORIN: Just making people smile and sing songs and just be happy.

[French singing]

MICHAEL MORIN: I think the spirit of giving is just embedded in the fibers of the suit and it's almost like a magical coat that as soon as I put it on I feel their spirit, their energy with me. And I believe that that helps propel me into this I feel them with me. [Chatter] As you may well know this is a really busy time of year for me so I'll get going.

VOICE 4: Thank you very much.

[Singing We Wish You a Merry Christmas]

MICHAEL MORIN: Thank you.

[Music]

Back To Top »

Christmas banned? The unknown, forgotten and surprising history of this holiday tradition

Guests: Judith Flanders

SOUNDCLIP

Lights, please.

And they were in the same country shepherds, abiding in the field keeping watch over their flock by night.

And lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them and the glory of the Lord shone round about them, and they were sore afraid.

And the angel said unto them, Fear not for, behold, I bring you good findings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

For unto you is born this day, in the city of David a saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

And this shall be a sign unto you; you shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, glory to God in the highest and on earth peace, good will toward men.

That is what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.

MS: A classic scene from Merry Christmas Charlie Brown, an answer to Charlie Brown's question about what Christmas really means, Linus quotes the scripture. And since that movie's debut in 1965 watching Charlie Brown and the gang has become part of what Christmas means to many. It's a holiday that's ever changing with an evolving personality of its own. So much so that when historian Judith Flanders set out to write about it she called her book Christmas: A Biography. The best-selling author spoke with Anna Maria Tremonti last December about the book. And just a word to parents out there, this is a grown up discussion about the holiday, which might not be appropriate for younger listeners.

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: Take me back some 2017 years ago. What was going on in Bethlehem on December 25^th?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Well we didn't know. And Christmas as such was certainly not going on. There are many uncertainties about the Bible story. I'm not a Biblical historian. So I can only tell you very roughly what those problems are. But biblical scholars point out there are many - not even discrepancies - but there are many elements of the story that simply don’t fit. First of all of course the gospels`, the two gospels that mention the birth of Christ, weren't actually written until nearly 100 years after the supposed event. Christmas itself, the Feast of the Nativity as laid down by the Catholic Church, is not established until the fourth century.

AMT: And who establishes it?

JUDITH FLANDERS: The bishop of Rome.

AMT: Why?

JUDITH FLANDERS: I didn't ask him.

[Laughter]

JUDITH FLANDERS: They decided the Nativity should be marked as part of the church calendar and the 25th of December it is chosen. Why they chose the 25th of December is uncertain. Biblical scholars today suggest that there are other dates that would be far more likely to be the date of the Nativity, including I understand a date in April, a date in May, a date in September. Certainly very many things that you don't have to be a biblical scholar to understand are a little odd about the story. For instance, were told the shepherds are watching their flocks by night. So you have the animals out grazing at night which we know does not happen in winter. In winter animals are brought into the village where it's warm. So Christmas and the Nativity should not be confused.

AMT: So when did Christmas start when did Christians start celebrating and over eating and over drinking on Christmas?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Well that to me was the totally fascinating part because as I said the Bishop of Rome named the 25th of December, which was then the solstice, the shortest day of the year, as Christmas in the fourth century. Within three decades we know that an archbishop of Constantinople was mourning his flock against what he called excessive feasting and also he said dancing on the day. Now we know that nobody warns people about things that aren't happening. Nobody says to children don't put beans up your nose because children don't on the whole put beans up their nose. Equally, nobody warns you against excessive feasting if no one is feasting excessively.

AMT: Was giving presence always part of Christmas?

JUDITH FLANDERS: No presents were a thing in the Roman Empire on New Year. And for a long time - My idea is that Christmas has always been about consumption but what that consumption is has changed over the centuries. In the early days it was about food and especially about drink. Later on it became about presents but really that is a thing of the industrial age, when mass production makes presence more available to more people.

AMT: So give us the years we are talking...

JUDITH FLANDERS: Really the 19th century is when we start to shift Christmas from being about adults, about being about food and being about large quantities of alcohol, to being about children and being about presents and large quantities of alcohol.

AMT: Okay so that's a bit of a reality check. You look at the fact that Fox News has a long history of saying there is a war on Christmas going on in the United States and not to mention the fact that President Trump has vowed to defeat that war. Was there ever really a time then when celebrating Christmas in a Christian country was banned?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Absolutely and as I like to point out the only war on Christmas that we know of has been waged by the Christian church. There has been a war on Christmas in the 17th century when the what we now call retrospectively the Puritan elements of the Christian church decided that, since there is no mention of Christmas in the Bible, there is no scriptural reference to Christmas, therefore it wasn't a real thing. And celebrating Christmas was, according to Puritan belief, anti-Christian. And so in both the Puritan North America and in England under the Commonwealth - so that's 20 years basically in the 17th century - Christmas is banned. Officially Christmas does not exist.

AMT: And what's the backlash like?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Well what happens of course is it makes Christmas ever more secular. Those religious people who had observed Christmas by going to church said "Okay well we'll go to the pub instead. We'll go to the tavern. We'll do excessive feasting and dancing," and so Christmas becomes even more secular than it had always been, and it was always secular.

AMT: And so eventually they un-ban Christmas but Scotland forgets, does it not?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Scotland is a sort of sneaky little exception. The Scottish Kirk, the church didn't approve of Christmas. And so they managed to re-ban it in 1690 and then somehow 'oops' they forgot to un-ban it and it stayed banned until 1958. So as far as I know Scotland is the only place on earth where for a quarter of a millennium Christmas was banned.

AMT: When does Santa Claus make his appearance?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Sanders a real interesting question because ultimately we have to say we you really don't know. The core of Santa comes at the beginning of the 19th century in 1808-1809 when Washington Irving the short story writer from New York and his friends start to weave together the story of St. Nicholas and this new character called Santa Claus. Washington Irving wrote amongst other things something called the Knickerbocker History of New York in which he told of the old days of New York when it was New Amsterdam, and in this he claimed that St. Nicholas was the patron saint of New York. Now actually it wasn't a history. It was satire and St. Nicholas was not the patron saint of New York. He made it up. But very swiftly people forgot that this was satire and they read it as history. And so that's where a lot of the confusion comes from about the merger of St. Nicholas and Santa Claus. We have however two very puzzling mentions from 1773 and 1774 which is a decade before Washington Irving is born. And in a New York newspaper it mentions that there will be a meeting at which Santa Claus will attend. Now we have no idea how this occurs, what it means, where it comes from. It's just a mystery.

AMT: Because it doesn't continue until again around 1808-09.

JUDITH FLANDERS: Exactly it's 40 years where there's no further mention. Now my suggestion - and it's very much a suggestion I have no evidence and no proof - is that rather than this being a Dutch story which, in my mind, Washington Irving and his friends almost entirely make up is what might be the case is in me eighteenth century, there had been a large emigration from amongst other places Switzerland. And in Schweitzerdeutsch, in the German Swiss language, there were depending on where you came from, two names for St. Nicholas. One was Sante Claus and one was Sami Claus and to me those sound an awful lot more like St. Nicholas than St. Nikolaus, the Dutch name. So my wondering is whether those early newspaper references are to events held by Swiss German immigrants.

AMT: And then evolves from there.

JUDITH FLANDERS: Yes.

AMT: Okay so I've got something I want you to hear. This is a bit from a Christmas classic. It is Kris Kringle speaking with wannabe Santa Claus Alfred in the 1947 movie Miracle on 34th Street.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: Imagine making a child take something it doesn't want just because he bought too many at the wrong toys. That's what I have been fighting against for years. The way they commercialize Christmas.

VOICE 2: Yes there is a lot of [unintelligible] floating around as well. But one of the worst is commercialism. Make a buck, make a buck. Even in Brooklyn it is the same. Don't care what Christmas stands for. Just make a buck. Make a buck.

AMT: Judith Flanders it's interesting that Kris Kringle, otherwise known as Santa Claus, is condemning commercialism when in fact Santa Claus has been the face of commercialism for decades, hasn't he?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Santa Claus has been the commercial leader virtually since he was invented. From the 1880s there are shops that have Santa Claus advertising. From the 1890s named Santa Claus appears in toy stores. Santa Claus sells. That's his job.

AMT: Do we know when people went from homemade Christmas ornaments to mass market ornaments?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Oh absolutely. The Christmas tree in arrived in German speaking lands in the 17th and 18th century but it was then primarily decorated with candles. Christmas decorations are slower to evolve. And as the tree spreads particularly in the English speaking world, to England in the 19th century and to America at the same time, you have the increase in decoration. And originally, what Christmas decorations there were, were virtually gifts themselves. They were fruit. They were nuts. They were cookies that were tied on, decorated and painted. So the tree itself was in effect the display of the gifts.

AMT: And when does that change?

JUDITH FLANDERS: As the 19th century progresses the decorations change. And one of the things that happen is you get decorations which stop being the presents themselves and become holders for the presents. So there are little baskets or there little paper cones which hold the fruit and nuts and the other small presents. But by 1848 there's a very famous engraving of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert with their tree. And by 1848 there are presents for the children under the tree.

AMT: Are there any angels on top of that tree at this point?

JUDITH FLANDERS: There are. The German tradition of having an angel on the tree, a golden angel, travels pretty well immediately with the tree. And we have a reference in the 1850s. Harriet Beecher Stowe who wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin describes that her mother made what she calls their no longer an angel but a fairy that goes on top of the tree. This is absolutely traditional really from the 19th century onwards.

AMT: Another iconic part of Christmas of course is the Charles Dickens book A Christmas Carol. How did that book change the way people thought about Christmas?

JUDITH FLANDERS: I think it didn't change the way people thought about Christmas. I think what it did was it reinforced it. It showed that you didn't have to think of Christmas as an old fashioned pastime, something that you know the Squire did with the happy merry peasants in the countryside. But that Christmas now was every bit as much an urban and commercial holiday and could be celebrated by people in cities every bit as much as in the countryside, which was of course the older tradition.

AMT: We have a bit from another holiday a classic. This is Alastair Sims as Scrooge in the 1951 movie A Christmas Carol.

SOUNDCLIP

Step this way Mr. [unintelligible], please.

Itis only once a year, Sir. It won't be repeated.

I was making rather merry yesterday, Sir.

I'm sure you were. Well, we won't beat about the bush, my friend. I am not going to stand this sort of thing any longer, which leaves me no alternative but to raise your salary.

[Laughter]

AMT: Okay so there you go Alastair, isn't that wonderful. 1951 A Christmas Carol. So Scrooge wakes up after being visited by the spirits of Christmas past, Christmas present, Christmas future. He's a reformed man but what is the message of his Christmas rehabilitation?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Well the message is told by Dickens. Actually it's not Scrooge who gives the message in the book. It's Scrooge's nephew Fred who says 'I believe that Christmas is a good time a kind forgiving charitable pleasant time. The only time I know of in the long calendar of the year when men and women seem by one concerned to open their shared parts freely and to think of people below them as if they were really fellow passengers to the grave and not in another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket I believe that it has done me good and will do me good. And I say God bless it.' And that's the core of the Christmas message. It's not about religion to Dickens and it's not about commercialism. It's about people opening their shut up hearts. It's about sharing. And whether it is sharing with a family or sharing with a community, it's part of the reason that we always believe Christmas was better before. 'Oh it's too commercial now. It's to this now. It used to be better.' It's because we can imagine a perfect Christmas.

AMT: So it was Charles Dickens who spelled out what a perfect Christmas was.

JUDITH FLANDERS: I think so.

AMT: But interesting enough, his main character actually sees it as a moment to spend.

JUDITH FLANDERS: Well the interesting thing of course about Scrooge's repentance I think is that what he does with his reform. He goes out and he buys food for the Cratchits where he sends somebody to buy food for the Cratchit family. He increases Cratchits wages. It's as though Dickens can't actually think of any way of expressing this warmth except through money.

AMT: Which again brings us around to the idea of that of Christmas being commercial.

JUDITH FLANDERS: Of course and as I said from the beginning it's always been about consumption. And even a genius like Dickens, who disguises it very well, can't make it about anything else.

AMT: So every year around this time people watch classic Christmas movies or at least they are offered them on every station, that are filled with nostalgia for past Christmases. What is the connection between longing for the past and Christmas?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Christmas has always been about longing for the past. As far as I could track back. I found a reference dated from 1616. A Play by Ben Johnson where one of the characters basically says 'Oh Christmas used to be so much better. Today it's nothing compared to what it used to be.' So it's not that we have nostalgia about Christmas. Christmas is about nostalgia. Christmas is about believing in a better time. Whether it was the better, simpler, happier times of our own childhood or the better, simpler, happier times that we imagine some other date. The Victorians in the 19th century looks back to the Tudors in the 16th century and said 'Oh Christmas was better then.' We today look back at Norman Rockwell pictures of the 1950s and say 'oh it was better then.' That is the core of Christmas believing in a past happy time.

AMT: And that sometimes in manifesting people who try to- they want to make a pact like a happy time to I guess cover the fact that past times weren't happy.

JUDITH FLANDERS: Of course. I mean do we want to go back to the 1950s? Not particularly. I mean imagine apart from anything else, the dentistry.

AMT: So that gets right in line back with the spending. You can spend your way back to that nostalgia.

JUDITH FLANDERS: Yes, yes. We buy a happier time.

AMT: So let's talk about Christmas trees. You write that the public use of Christmas trees often has political purposes. Can you give us examples of that?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Well the most obvious one living in London is the enormous Christmas tree that is erected in Trafalgar Square every year which has been going up since the 1940s. And it is sent to the City of London by the city of Oslo in Norway, in - it says always - thanks for the British help for the Norwegians in World War II. So apolitical thinks for a political event is expressed - has been expressed now - for half a century and more with a Christmas tree.

AMT: Are there others?

JUDITH FLANDERS: The other trees which may not have started as political events become political events. For example the tree at Rockefeller Center in New York which was a private event it was erected originally - the very first tree was erected simply by the workmen who were building Rockefeller Center. After that the owners of Rockefeller Center have been putting it up. One year after Hurricane Katrina children who were displaced from New Orleans were brought to be part of that ceremony. After 9/11 there were elements that were expressly designed - the people who were part of the ceremony were there to be there as solidarity for those who had been lost in 9/11. And nobody thinks twice about it. It's very interesting that it is so much part of our existence that we think 'that would be a sensible thing to do.' But why would a Christmas tree be political and yet it is.

AMT: That was the case that's very famous, Nova Scotia sends a Christmas tree as a thank you every year to Boston for the help that it got from Bostonians for the Halifax Explosion in 1917.

JUDITH FLANDERS: That is right. So a century later it's still happening.

AMT: There are other ways that Christmas trees are political, though. How have the Nazis used Christmas trees?

JUDITH FLANDERS: Well the Nazi Christmas tree thing is very interesting because what they did was they used the Christmas tree and other Christmas elements to try and build up an image of a pre-Christian ritual, claiming that these were pagan traditions that went back to pre-Christian era. They were they claimed - Arian. Now as we know Arian doesn't actually mean very much and these rituals are certainly not pre-Christian. They took their oath of allegiance, the essay, the paramilitary unit took their oath of allegiance under Christmas trees. It became a symbol they called it 'the symbol of national unity'. And each district took turns to send a tree to the Ministry of Propaganda in Berlin. Similarly it worked the other way. In Washington after Pearl Harbor, which was of course December 7tt, a blackout had been imposed after Pearl Harbor. But the Christmas lighting ceremony outside the White House was considered politically important enough that it went ahead despite their supposedly being a blackout.

AMT: You studied how Christmas has changed over the centuries. What's the most important thing that continues to sustain the holiday?

JUDITH FLANDERS: I truly think it's nostalgia. It's the feeling of community that is given by this constant sense of renewal and looking backwards. It sounds contradictory but I think that really it pulls people together.

AMT: Okay and I guess the whole idea that we are somehow succumbing to commercialization isn't true that that's part of a tradition that's being upheld.

JUDITH FLANDERS: Exactly.

AMT: Okay. Well happy shopping Judith Flanders.

JUDITH FLANDERS: Happy holidays. Bye bye.

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Dec. 24, 2018 episode transcript

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