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The AIH Transcript for November 23, 2018

Hosts: Peter Armstrong and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

PETER ARMSTRONG: Hello I'm Peter Armstrong sitting in for Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight...

PA: The bottom of the barrel. With oil prices tanking in Alberta I'll speak with the CEO of MEG Energy -- who says his own industry could increase returns by reducing production.

JD: Neither here nor there. In Scotland criminal cases can end with a verdict of "not proven" -- and now there are calls to scrap that third option for sexual assault cases in particular.

PA: Radio silence. Raed Fares spoke to As It Happens and to his fellow Syrians about his opposition to the Assad regime. We'll remember the activist and radio host who was killed in a drive by shooting today.

JD: Secret allegations, perp walks, charges of nepotism. Not exactly a typical week at the B.C. legislature. And one former MLA says it's not exactly a good look for democracy.

PA: Surly bird special. In the movies the heroes sometimes develops a grudging respect for his lawless nemesis -- that's how one Rhode Island mayor has come to feel about an ornery, violent wild turkey.

JD: And... out with his head! Science determines just how long it takes the head of a Lego person to travel through the human body. And our guest tells us about sending that toy on a not-so-fantastic voyage through his own gut. As It Happens. The Friday edition -- radio that hopes he told his kids which piece not to play with or it will be his head on the block.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Slain Syrian broadcaster was 'the enemy of everyone — except the people,' says friend

Alberta oil

Guest: Derek Evans

JD: It was another rough day for Canada's oil patch. Global prices are now at their lowest point in over a year. And Canadian crude is selling for just a fraction of that global price. That had the prime minister speaking to executives in Calgary yesterday. And it had protesters gathering outside. Derek Evans was among those protesters. He's also the CEO of MEG Energy. We reached Mr. Evans in Calgary.

PA: Mr. Evans just how bad are things in the oil sector right now?

DEREK EVANS: They're pretty miserable. We are seeing a rapidly decreasing WTI prices, West Texas Intermediate oil prices -- they dropped a bunch today. They're now sitting in the very low 50s. But probably the most unexpected factor for us today is the fact that the Western Canadian Select price which is the differential between light and heavy oil in western Canada has increased substantially. Basically erasing any profits for both heavy and starting to impact light oil producers. So nobody's making any money here at the moment.

PA: So with that in mind Justin Trudeau came out there yesterday to meet with oil producers and stakeholders in the energy sector and announced that he had come to listen. What does that sound like to you?

DE: You know it's... you know I appreciate him making the effort. I think it's a very challenging time to come out here when we're all faced with the prospects of losing substantial amounts of money for our shareholders and really trying to figure out how we're going to get through this. We all feel frustrated out here that we haven't been able to get the pipelines that we've been planning for the last 10 or 11 years to be built and we're now at this crossroads where we've got too much production and not enough pipeline capacity and there's a real tension and frustration and anger here. And you know he walked right into that yesterday and you know good for him for taking it on but I don't think -- he didn't come with a solution and I'm not sure really the oil and gas business provided a lot of solution to them. I'm not sure there's a lot of alternatives here other than shutting in production and ramping up rail capacity.

PA: I want to dig in on the discount that we get from Western Canada Select from WTI -- that that enormous discount that Canadian oil producers are getting. How much of that is the responsibility of the oil industry that is producing more oil than it ever has without the capacity to get it to market -- the glut was not created by policy it was created by oil producers rapidly and really ramping up their oil production.

DE: Well you know when you say rapidly ramping up oil production -- the 900,000 barrels of oil that came on this year are from projects that started three years ago. You know they're not things that happened overnight. We didn't flip the switch in the first quarter of this year and say 'oh it looks like oil prices are going up.' These are big mega projects that were started. And they were started on the belief that the pipelines that we'd started planning 10 or 11 years ago were going to be built and would have been facilitated and would be on production and that we would have had a way to clear the market. So yes we bear responsibility for that. And you know we will be acting in a responsible manner. We'll be shutting in our production that doesn't make any money. But I think characterize it as something that sort of happened in the short term it does not do us any justice.

PA: Fair enough. And I mean a lot of those were not only planned when we were expecting to see pipelines come onboard but when the price of oil was up at 100 and 110 dollars a barrel. How important is it at this point though to get a unified voice? Because there are producers like you that are saying let's shut it and let's limit our production to try to bring down the price. There are some like Suncor that just have their recent operation coming on board a couple of months ago -- pumping 190,000 barrels into an oversaturated market. How do you make sure that you guys as an industry in Alberta have a unified voice on this?

DE: So you know that's a great question. I think the challenge for us is sometimes we don't speak with a unified voice and that probably has a lot to do with the fact that there really are two sides to the family here. We've got the pure Alberta producer who lives and dies by what he makes inside the province of Alberta. And then you have the multinational integrated producers with refineries in the United States who are happy to take a loss on their production in Alberta and make more money in the Chicago area on their refineries. And you know their economics and how they run their business is completely different than a sole producer inside of the province. And you know really they -- Albertans pay for that at the end of the day in these sorts of situations. All that being said Peter -- absolutely, we have to learn to be better at having a unified voice. The family squabbles, we need to keep inside the family. And we need to be pitching our vision to the prime minister when he comes out here of what our energy future could look like and how he can be instrumental -- instrumental in an important part of making that happen.

PA: So if not pipelines m-- is it rail? Is that just going to have to be part of the solution here?

DE: In the interim -- rail is going to be a critical part of the solution. There's two things that are really going to be a critical part of the solution. When you see differentials as high as they are today and that 45 to 50 dollar -- producers like ourselves are shutting in volume. So we currently have 25 percent of our volume shut in and if the existing...

PA: That means 25 percent of your capacity you're just not producing at all.

DE: Absolutely. And next month it will be 50 percent because you know we're responsible corporate citizens and we can't lose money for our shareholders.

PA: If something doesn't change and change soon -- I wonder if you can tell us what this will mean not just for you and for your company but for the workers across Canada's oil patch?

DE: So it's already started to change Peter. I mean one thing we know is that we have to react very quickly as business leaders in these situation. So we're already laying down drilling rigs. And then that's problematic because there's a market for those drilling rigs outside of Canada and the [inaudible] in the United States so any time you lay down a piece of equipment because you no longer have the economics to continue to utilize that -- you're at real risk that that equipment and those jobs are going to evaporate down south into the United States. That would be on the drilling side. On the facility side capital projects are all being ratcheted back as far as you possibly can to just spend the very minimum of capital that you need to keep the lights on. So that means less construction jobs, that means less head office jobs, that means you know -- and you'll start with the people that are your consultants in your organization and you'll lay those people off. But ultimately if this continues to persist there will be more job losses.

PA: Indeed. We are watching closely. Mr. Evans I really appreciate you making time today.

DE: Thank you very much Peter.

JD: Derek Evans is the CEO of MEG Energy. We reached him in Calgary.

[Music]

Raed Fares obit

Guest: Nicolas Henin

JD: Each and every time As It Happens spoke to Raed Fares we were afraid it might be the last. And today, the Syrian activist and radio host was killed in his hometown of Kafranbel, in Northern Syria. He was 46 years old. In 2012 Mr. Fares was staging peaceful protests against the Syrian regime. Here's what he told Carol at the time.

SOUNDCLIP

RAED FARES: It very dangerous. Very very dangerous. I can't explain it. Especially in the morning at 6 or 7 -- because the army tried to catch us in the morning -- and his tanks, his troops, his soldiers.

CAROL OFF: How much longer do you think you can manage to live this way?

RF: Hmm... till death. I think till death. Maybe years. Maybe months. I don't know.

JD: Raed Fares in conversation with Carol in 2012. Mr. Fares would later launch a radio station called Radio Fresh and while his funny and fearless broadcast delighted local residents -- they drew the ire of the Syrian regime and militant groups. Nicolas Henin is a French journalist and a friend of Mr. Fares. We reached him in Lyon, France.

PA: Nicolas I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend. I wonder how you're remembering Raed Fares today.

NICOLAS HENIN: Well I first encountered him online and I was amazed. Especially I remember the picture -- that demonstration that he organized right after the bombing, at the Boston Marathon, and he organized a demonstration for the people of Kafranbel -- his village in northern Syria to mourn for the bombing that happened in the United States. And I was like -- everyone amazed by this reaction coming from someone who lives under bombs and experience every day bombings. I decided to contact him online and we became friends, first online. Then before I had a chance to travel to Kafranbel so you know in northern Syria -- and met with him. Two weeks with him staying in his home. And I just enjoyed his character. His joy. And the smart way he understood how evolution can work.

PA: I mean you talk about his character, his joy, his intelligence -- his perseverance too is a big part of this. I mean he survived assassination attempts -- his offices were bombed by the Assad forces, they were raided by ISIS, he was kidnapped at one point -- several points I think by Al-Qaeda.

NH: He was looked after by everyone -- he was the enemy of everyone, except of the people. He had no political ambition. He wasn't looking for a comfortable posting or anything for himself. He was just very conscious of if you want a revolution to succeed -- meaning to bring peace, democracy, and freedom, for your people in the country you love. He understood that violence is a limited asset and that communication is the key.

PA: I mean after so many close calls -- today, he was finally killed. Do you know yet specifically what did happen today?

NH: I have little information but it appears that he was killed not by the Assad regime but by a jihadi group and very likely some people from Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham which is associated with al-Qaeda. And it is of course meaningful that he wasn't even by his primary enemy that rather by people who hijacked the very revolutions that he fought for. And I think I remember we really spoke a couple of times that was over 8 or 5 years ago about what could happen and the danger of his task. And already back five years ago he was very aware about the risk that he would get killed in this revolution. And this is a risk that he assumed and accepted from the very beginning.

PA: This Radio Fresh -- the radio station that he was operating, what was the goal? What were they trying to do with this station?

NH: His goal I think was to educate people about freedom. Tells them what freedom is because Syrians had lived under the rule of tyranny for decades. The point was to bring them to believe in a free system that is very different from both the dictatorship of the regime but also from the rules of many armed groups and mostly the jihadi groups that became attractive for many Syrians after the wave of violence caused by the Syrian war. And the idea that even if things don't seem well, there is hope and must be faced in a positive outcome for the country but for that you need to work on it. You need to have people having ideas. You need to advocate for freedom. And that was the aim of this radio.

PA: I mean it's remarkable the amount of work that he put in. And the creativity with which he did that. A great example is Islamic groups forbid him multiple times from playing any music on the station so he found this very creative way to get around that rule. Here's what he said when talking about that.

SOUNDCLIP

RAED FARES: I started to play sarcastic things like animal songs. So I bring like three guys -- they have good voices and they sing all the songs in the Arabic without music and I put the background -- animal voices like sheep, like bears, frogs, dogs, chicken, and everything.

PA: So there is this wonderful example of the creativity with which -- I mean they were replacing the music with animals sounds -- I could hear you laughing throughout. That was a bold move.

NH: Exactly this is sort crazy and this is exactly the kind of -- that was exactly his spirit. This is exactly how he wanted to overcome tyranny and violence -- coming from both sides.

PA: Was he able to find humor in these diary -- these terrible troubled situations?

NH: Last time I met him he was always laughing. Yes. That was his weapon.

PA: And it's an important weapon because it reached out to people. You know he was part of a dwindling group of Syrian dissidents that are now killed -- how significant is the loss of his voice at this time in that place?

NH: Well it confirms the slow descent of Syria into darkness. The moment these kind of people disappear of course the less good options remain. And the more we are left with only people who are disciples of tyranny. We have his legacy and we have also a duty that is to make his ideas survive.

PA: Well listen we really appreciate you helping us make that happen today and again I'm just really sorry for your loss.

NH: Thank you. Goodbye.

JD: Nicolas Henin is a French journalist and a friend of a Raed Fares. Mr. Fares, a Syrian opposition activist, was killed yesterday in Syria's rebel held Idlib province. And we've posted more about Mr. Raed Fares on our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Lego study

Guest: Dr. Damian Roland

JD: Thank you science. We now have a conclusive answer as to how long it takes the head of a Lego person to travel through the human body. A group of doctors in the UK and Australia has published that answer in the Journal of Pediatrics and Child Health. And lacking any volunteers who were willing to swallow a Lego head and then sort through their own feces to find it again -- they rolled up their sleeves and did the dirty work themselves. Dr. Damian Roland was one of the study's authors and subjects. We reached Dr. Roland in Leicester, UK.

PA: Dr. Roland be honest with me -- were you and your colleagues maybe just a little bit bored at the lab one day. How did you come up with this idea of swallowing Lego heads?

DR. DAMIAN ROLAND: Well it's a tradition in medicine in the Christmas period or towards winter that you try and come up with research topics that are just a little bit quirky, a little bit difference, and that's where this Lego idea came from.

PA: And it is actual science. I mean you had to keep a very meticulous stool journal before all of this. That certainly sounds like fun.

DR: What we were determined to do is while the concept might feel a little silly we applied rigid academic principles -- that we wrote the paper in exactly the same way you do a finished journal article. And certainty I can quote you verbatim from my own particular stool diary. So on the 10th of May this year between 10:20 I passed a sausage shaped poo with some cracks in it. And that would have been a type-3 poo on the Bristol stool charts.

PA: [Laughs] Well Dr. Roland I now know that about you and I didn't expect to know that going into this interview -- so that helps. So take me the moment -- everybody has their Lego person head. Did you drink it down with something? Did you all do it together? What was that like?

DR: Well one of the great things about this collaboration -- so some doctors in Australia, a couple of doctors in England -- and we tried to do things as simultaneously as possible. So we set kind of a time of day that would go across conventional national time boundaries. We took a video of ourselves doing it so we could all prove that we'd swallowed the Lego head. And most of us did it with a glass of water, yes.

PA: Fair enough. And then comes the hard part of trying to find them again. How hard was that?

DR: Well it was particularly hard for myself because I never found my little Lego head. That is distressing really -- so I searched through my own poo for two weeks. That is not an experiment I'm going to be repeating again I can assure you of that.

PA: What is that -- let me jump in there. You had to sift through your poo. How did you do... What is that like? What are you doing in that case?

DR: Well one of the things that may have happened to me is maybe I did not look hard enough earlier, the first couple, because it's not a pleasant thing to do. I know some of my colleagues like really went to town on their meticulous sterilization procedures.

PA: [Laughs] Did you wear gloves? Can I ask?

DR: I definitely wore gloves. But I wonder on the first occasion that my efforts to look maybe weren't as robust as they should have.

PA: You got a little more bold as time went on?

DR: Well yeah because I was getting more desperate. All my colleagues had found their Lego heads and I still don't know whether it's still inside me.

PA: Did everybody else find theirs?

DR: Yes yes they did.

PA: Right. Now in reading the abstract and the research -- you came up with some acronyms to describe the results and the challenges you would face. Tell us about those.

DR: Actually I mean I'm an academic pediatrician. I do all sorts of research but I wonder if one of my proudest moments is going to be coming up with one of the acronyms in this study which was the "SHAT SCORE" which is for Stool Hardness And Transits. What we wanted to do we were a bit worried when we were trying to compare how long it took us to pass the Lego that some people might have lots of poos in a day and some people might not poo for a couple -- so we needed to know for each person that they would have the same kind of number of poos in a given time period. And then the primary outcome of this study -- the time taken to find your Lego head so that was the Found And Retrieval Time -- the "FART SCORE." And we display in the journal article a table of all our different Fart and Shat scores.

PA: Now I mean this is hilarious but it is also interesting and frankly a little important. I mean I have two five year old sons at home who play with Lego all the time -- I worry about this. You're a pediatric emergency doctor. This is something that we should know more about and understand because I mean kids probably show up at the E.R. having swallowed little chunks of Lego all the time.

DR: There's a couple of important messages here which I think are important for public health. Actually parental anxiety over even small misdemeanors can be quite high. And actually we see a lot of children presenting in to emergency departments with very anxious parents when they probably didn't need to be because whatever they eat ingested isn't potentially harmful. But most importantly they don't need to spend a lot of time worrying about it passing out or like we did -- sifting through that kind of their own poo or especially their child's poo. But the flipside of that is I do hope that this promotes some debate about things that might be harmful. And worldwide there's a particular problem with button batteries -- so these are those round circle shaped batteries -- now they can be very dangerous. And maybe it might come out of the [inaudible] debate about what a worrying substance or what not to ingest.

PA: And the main takeaway for me at least as the parent of young boys play who play with Lego. How long does it actually take on average for these things to pass through human body?

DR: Well what we found in our particular study is it's not long at all. The average was 1.7 days. So it just shows that most people clearly eat their fibre and things work their way through the body which is nice to know.

PA: Dr. Roland thank you very much for doing this.

DR: Thank you very much.

JD: Dr. Damian Roland is a pediatrician. We reached him in Leicester, UK.

[Music]

Black Friday

JD: On this Black Friday we would like to acknowledge the heroes -- but I'm not really speaking about congratulating the folks who camped out overnight at Best Buy, although I do admire your commitment to deals. No this salute goes out to a different kind of Black Friday hero. But I will let CBC Music host Raina Douris say the rest.

SOUNDCLIP

RAINA DOURIS: Today's the day after American Thanksgiving also known as Black Friday. When folks start lining up super early outside of stores to save a few bucks and buy a bunch of stuff. But right now I would like you to join me in taking a moment to appreciate the unsung heroes of Black Friday. Those fine men and women working at counters and cashiers desks across North America today -- we salute you. Clerks and sales associates for every cheerful 'Hi how are you?' For every fake forced smile you give today. For every hour you have to spend on your feet in that itchy unflattering polyester polo shirt uniform. For every rude person who tries to use an invalid coupon or gets angry at you because the store ran out of the thing they came for as if it were somehow your fault. For every screaming kid you have to deal with. For every potential tragic trampling crisis you avert. For every person who tries to insert their card when you repeatedly tell them it's one of those machines where you still have to swipe it because for some reason your company has not upgraded their computer system and that's why everything is taking forever. And finally for every return you have to process next week when people can't figure out how to set up their new home theater or decide maybe they didn't need 20 waffle irons just because they were on sale for 6 percent off. If you are working in a retail store today on the frontlines Black Friday -- you can do this. We believe in you.

JD: From the CBC Music Program Mornings with Raina Douris that was Raina Douris this morning with a salute to Black Friday retail workers.

[Music]

Part 2: Scottish activist joins sexual assault survivors in call to drop 'not proven' verdict

Scotland 'not proven'

Guest: Sandy Brindley

JD: In most places in a criminal case a defendant is judged either guilty or not guilty. But in Scotland there is a third possible verdict "not proven." And that is a verdict that has been especially controversial in sexual assault cases. The University of Glasgow is doing a study on the use of this not proven verdict. And a spokesperson for the Scottish Government told the BBC that it will look closely at the results. But an unprecedented case last month has brought renewed calls to scrap that neither nor third verdict altogether. It involved an alleged victim known only as 'Miss M.' Sandy Brindley is the chief executive of the support centre Rape Crisis Scotland and a friend of 'Miss M.' We reached Ms. Brindley in Glasgow.

PA: Ms. Brindley what is the difference between not proven and not guilty?

SANDY BRINDLEY: Well Scotland is very unusual in having three verdicts rather than having guilty and not guilty -- we have a third verdict which is called not proven. And really it means the exact same thing as a not guilty verdict -- it's an acquittal and there are no legal repercussions at all for the accused.

PA: And is there a concern that juries find it as something of a middle ground rather than two of the not proven not guilty options and a guilty -- you know what I mean? Like does it sort of land somewhere in between in a lot of people's minds?

SB: Well what we did is used disproportionately and [inaudible] we have to worry that juries are maybe reluctant to convict in rape cases -- that the not proven verdict can get them an easy out. I mean I think people will interpret it in different ways. Some people -- some rape survivors interpreter it as -- it means I was believed but that was not enough evidence to convict. Others interpret it completely opposite which is to this 'I clearly wasn't believed.' But I think what's clear is that more and more rape survivors are coming out and saying that verdict was devastating -- we think it should go because we feel like it contributed to a lack of justice for us.

PA: And this has been on the books for like hundreds of years. How old is this as an option?

SB: Yes. I think as long as, as I understand it, as long as there has been criminal [inaudible] in Scotland there's been a not proven verdict. And there's been numerous attempts to remove it over the years. But I do hope that this time around -- there is maybe a little bit more momentum just because so many rape survivors are coming out and speaking out about this verdict and how they feel it has been used in court. And I think without doing research tied with our duties we would never know how many not proven verdicts -- would be guilty as oppose to not guilty verdicts but I think do we have suspicion that potentially has led to [inaudible] and what that means guilty man walking free.

PA: Well let's zoom in on Miss M's case. Can you tell us what it is that happened to your friend Miss M in her recent sexual assault case?

SB: Yes we had a landmark case just a couple of months ago -- we had Miss M who got a not proven verdict in a criminal trial in 2015 and she simply could not come to terms with the idea of just not getting justice for what had happened. So she took the very unusual step of taking civil action against the man accused of raping her Stephen Coxen. And just two months ago -- this was a legal first and he was found by a sheriff in a civil court to have raped her. And really what she was looking for from this was just some form of validation or recognition for what happened to her. And she was very strong with it -- she was let down with the criminal justice system and that the not proven verdict was part of that. So she has combined with us to launch this campaign to end the not proven verdict -- to remove from the possible verdicts in Scottish courts.

PA: I mean there are other scholars and academics who say actually the better system might be to have simply not proven and proven and get rid of guilty not guilty altogether -- what do you make of that argument?

SB: I think it has to do theoretical attraction to -- I can see why some legal academics or lawyers are in favour over it. My worry about that is that I think it would just replicate the difficulties that you currently see with the not proven verdict and rape trial. And since we launched not proven verdict campaign we have had people get in touch with us who have sat on rape jury just to say -- look we totally support you in getting rid of this verdict because this is how it was used through the deliberations. And I think there is many many factors which contribute to the variable conviction [inaudible] for even Scotland is quite about the [inaudible] that England and the rest of the UK evidence all of because the not proven verdict -- [inaudible] we need to consider but I do think the not proven verdict is part of the problem and the variable conviction you have for rape in Scotland.

PA: And to what extent -- I mean is it changing how we think about and how we talk about sexual assault and how that is viewed in Scotland?

SB: Yeah absolutely. I think there's legal reform that would make things a bit better but ultimately I think law reform will have a limited impact unless we also look at societal attitudes -- consistently study after study has shown that a significant minority of the Scottish public [inaudible] for rapes -- drinking or were dressed a certain way or there's been some consensual sexual activity that somehow that means responsible for rape. And I think it would be naive to think those attitudes do not play a part in jury deliberations because jury members sitting in rape trials are obviously members of this Scottish public and at least some of them are likely to hold these views which -- [inaudible] rape trials and decision making in rape trials. So fundamentally I think if we're going to improve justice for people that have been raped, we need to change societal attitudes to the issue.

PA: Give me a sense of how you're feeling -- are you optimistic that Scotland will eventually move to a world where there are simply two verdicts?

SB: Yes I think that the momentum is necessary -- people have tried to get rid of not proven verdict in the past and been unsuccessful. I think there's more momentum now around it. And I do think what makes a difference is more more people coming forward who have been direct affected by this verdict -- I think it's clear it is time for it to go and I think it will go.

PA: Ms. Brindley we have to leave it there. Thank you so much for speaking with us today.

SB: Pleasure.

JD: Sandy Brindley is the chief executive of a Rape Crisis Scotland. We reached her in Glasgow. We have more on this story on our wesite cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Matthew Hedges

JD: The people who know him say he was there as a student. A court in the United Arab Emirates says he was there as a spy -- and sentenced him to life in prison. Now you may have heard our interview yesterday about British Ph.D. student Matthew Hedges who was sentenced to life for spying this week in the UAE. His friends and his family denied that charge. His Ph.D. supervisor told Carol that Mr. Hedges was doing research in the country. Well this morning the UAE's UK ambassador Sulaiman Hamid Almazroui held a press conference and he said the government had received a clemency request from Mr. Hedges' family and was studying it. The Guardian has said that there is some optimism Mr. Hedges could be released next week. Here is some of what the ambassador had to say about the case today.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: Like the UK -- the UAE is a country with an independent judiciary. The government does not dictate verdicts to the court. Matthew Hedges was not convicted after a five minute show trial as some have reported. Over the course of one month three judges evaluated compelling evidence in three hearings. They reached their conclusion after a full and proper process. This was an extremely serious case. We live in a dangerous neighborhood and national security must be a top priority. This was also an unusual case. Many researchers visit the UAE freely every year without breaking our laws. Under the UAE law everyone has the right to appeal after conviction and everyone can request a pardon from our president. Mr. Hedges' family have made a request for clemency and the government is studying that request. British Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt had a good conversation with our foreign minister. I also met him yesterday privately. As Mr. Hunt said we have an extremely close partnership with the UK because of the strength that relationship we are hopeful that an amicable solution can be reached.

JD: That was the Ambassador for the UAE in London, Sulaiman Hamid Almazroui speaking at a press conference earlier today. And if you would like to hear our conversation with Matthew Hedges' Ph.D. supervisor it is on our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Al Capone turkey

Guest: Joseph Polisena

JD: He is harassing motorists and pedestrians. He is interfering with the town's administrative affairs. Evading local authorities. The creature known as the 'Johnston Turkey' will not be stopped and he is terrorizing small town Rhode Island. Reportedly the errant wild turkey did not even tone down his behavior on American thanksgiving -- when you might expect him to feel it was perhaps in his best interest to lay low. The town's mayor Joseph Polisena is sparing no effort to capture the gobbler. We reached the mayor in Johnston, Rhode Island.

PA: Mayor Polisena yesterday of course was American Thanksgiving. Did anybody see this turkey running about town?

JOSEPH POLISENA: Correct. As a matter of fact his picture is in the Providence Journal paper today. He was still seen on the loose basically running around the town -- city. He is still around.

PA: He's taunting you now.

JP: I guess you could say that he's become my frenemy.

PA: [Laughs] How much do we really know about where this turkey came from -- how he ended up in your town in the first place?

JP: Well there was a story -- as a matter of fact there was a story yesterday in the Providence Journal about the proliferation of wild turkeys. And I know the Department of Environmental Management allows hunting once a year to get one turkey. But of course those rules should be disregarded and they should at least let people hunt at least two or three. They're all over the neighborhood --neighborhoods I should say. But the unfortunate situation was about probably in August, the end of July beginning of August, we had three turkeys right outside of city hall and it was okay for a while until they started causing havoc on traffic as well as really kind of scaring the taxpayers who would come in to pay their taxes. Because they're unpredictable and they're very aggressive. So I contacted my animal control officers and they brought in two other animal control officers from surrounding communities and they had cornered the 3 and captured two: one bare hands. A gentleman got him barehanded. And the other was a net. And the third one, who has been on the lamb or 'on the bird' I guess I don't know what you want to call it. He's been loose ever since. And we've tried on several occasions to trap him. I've learned a couple of things. They have a keen sense of sight. They can basically see your eyes blink from probably 100 feet away. And they have a really good memory because every time now that this turkey sees our animal control officers vehicle he takes off.

PA: He can recognize that car from other...

JP: Yup he recognizes. It's amazing and it's frightening. And he flies away. One of my employees was looking out her window, downstairs in the basement because the windows is like the level with the ground, and she took a picture of him -- it's a shadow of the turkey kind of like peeking in. So it's haunting and daunting I guess to say the least. And my administrative assistant about a month and a half ago was trapped in her vehicle -- he wouldn't let her out. So they see the reflection and they start pecking at people's cars. They had their own Facebook I guess at one time. I'm not a big Facebook person.

PA: Right -- somebody put up a Facebook page for him. I mean he's become something of a celebrity in town right?

JP: He's probably more popular than me but thank God I got more votes than he did this past election.

PA: But he got the votes right? Didn't people write in his name?

JP: Yeah got a few votes -- there's no doubt about it. Maybe that's a subliminal message from the taxpayers even though I won by almost three quarters. But that's beside the point. We made an attempt to capture him about three or four weeks ago. And as I look back it was hilarious because we had three television stations there, two print news media out there, and we were chasing him down the middle of Atwood Ave and we almost had him but my animal control officer didn't have a plan B. I guess he probably has a soft spot in my heart somewhere because I don't want to see this lone turkey get run over or smashed or splattered on the road because first of all it wouldn't be a good thing obviously for some --especially children to see that. And he's become really a folk legend because everywhere I go -- before people say 'hi how are you? Or you are doing a good job. You look great. You lost weight. Or you know your hair is growing back.' They always say 'how's the turkey? Did you get him yet?'

PA: [Laughs] You have to have some begrudging respect for him -- he keeps getting away. I mean you've compared him to Al Capone and John Dillinger.

JP: Yes I have. He is unbelievable. He just you know as I said about four weeks ago we actually chased him down the middle of Atwood Ave and he goes into a full run -- and his fast. And as a matter of fact we almost had him because we had to use a vehicle from the SPCA -- he didn't recognize the vehicle. But once again my animal control officer didn't have a plan B.

PA: Because they had like a net that they were going to shoot at him right?

JP: Yeah they had they had this device that we borrowed from the city of East Providence. Basically it looks like almost like a trumpet and you shoot it -- CO2 gas and it doesn't hurt the animal and it shoots out a net. But what happened was I'm yelling at my you know animal control 'get out of the truck. Get out of the truck.' He's trying to shoot it from inside the cab of the truck. And all I could visualize is the net coming out and capturing the two people inside the cab of the truck which really would have looked foolish. And unfortunately the device misfired. And the other issue too is people keep feeding him. And that is really detrimental to the animal because he's been in front of -- he's been outside of Starbucks -- out of the drive through window and people you know they are throwing muffins at him. And then he goes through Five Guys or Smashburger and they're feeding him french fries. So I'm sure that if they were doing that to me every day I would probably be hanging around also. But it doesn't do any justice. So when we finally capture him and we will.

PA: I was going to say what do you do when you capture him? Does he end up on your, Thanksgiving has passed -- is he Christmas dinner?

JP: You know I mean I know probably millions of people ate turkey yesterday. I really don't want to see him splattered all over the street.

PA: Did you eat turkey yesterday?

JP: No I did not. Absolutely not.

PA: What did you have?

JP: I had, quite frankly, I had lasagna and I had potatoes. I refuse to eat turkey. I was afraid I was going to get bad indigestion and flashbacks from trying to get this guy. So there's an 11 hundred acre park probably about two miles from the centre of town. And those two were released up in the woods -- it is called Snake Den Park -- so they've been fine. They haven't come back. They must be having fun up there. But this guy, as I said before, he's like the thing that won't go away.

PA: Well you let us know what happens and good luck and I hope this chapter ends well for you, for your town, and for the turkey too.

JP: Thank you very much. Nice speaking with you.

PA: Take good care.

JD: Joseph Polisena is the mayor of Johnston Rhode Island -- that is where we reached him.

[Music]

Project X

JD: "Cravenly piggish." "A nasty nasty piece of work." "The male gaze substantiated and concentrated into 90 sweaty minutes." Just a few of the many negative reviews for the 2012 comedy "Project X." It is about three high school friends who throw a party. The party gets out of control. The police cannot stop it. A car goes into a pool. A dog humps a guy's face. Etc, ad nauseum. It writes itself. And it was apparently about to rewrite itself on St. John's, Newfoundland tonight -- as a real life party so potentially dangerous that the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary issued a statement. A party that was called "Project X." The RNC statement read in part "so far investigators have learned that the party plans include hosting persons from the age of 14 to mid-20s and will involve alcohol, cannabis, illicit drugs, and other dangerous and criminal activities." So in other words, a party. But the talk online was so worrisome that at least two schools sent out their own warnings. And that wasn't necessarily an overreaction. RNC Constable Geoff Higdon told CBC "this wasn't a party that by any stretch of the imagination on the information we had. Looks like a place you would want your children to be and it's not a place you'd want to be." Well note the past tense there because in an update today the RNC said "late yesterday evening investigators were able to locate the 18 year old event organizer who agreed to cancel the event." Probably for the best. Because if this "Project X" had been anything like the movie that inspired it -- whoever was throwing that party might have ended up thrown by it.

[Music]

Otters

JD: People usually think of otters as playful and adorable. But don't say that in front of the carp at the Dr. Sun Yat-Sen Classical Chinese Garden in Vancouver. The few that remain. This week one particular otter has been a menace both for the koi and for local park officials. It has eaten half of the gardens 14 koi. And on Wednesday night the otter managed to evade justice. What's more, it got itself another snack in the process. Howard Normann the director of parks at the Vancouver Park Board gave an update on the situation at the garden this morning.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: At the moment we have not captured the otter. I know people are very curious. We did set a trap. The otter did visit our trap and took our fish and our tuna and our chicken. Unfortunately a small jam underneath it with a stick prevented the trap from closing. So I did say earlier I would have a plan B -- my plan B is now we have been in contact with the Ministry of Environment and we've been liaison back and forth -- and their advice was that we bring in a professional animal relocation person -- a specialist who deals with otters and mink raccoons that sort of thing. So I've been in contact with an individual they'll be here today. They'll be setting up a network of traps. They're quite confident if we've already had a positive experience with this otter visiting the traps that they'll be able to capture the otter today, tonight. I've learned a lot in the last few days about otters in Vancouver. So there are other otters -- Lost Lagoon a family of otters. Vanier Park. Along the Fraser there's lots of river otters already in Vancouver. This one and people have asked why don't we -- you know I've heard everything from 'why don't you just shoot the otter to why don't you bring more koi here and just keep feeding the otter?' And everything in between. There's a team otter. There's a team koi. So lots of interest in this story. For us as a park board it's really just to look after the otter to make sure it gets out of here safely and it is not running in traffic. Some of you may have spotted the photo somebody took on Saturday night on Keefer Street. The otter was trying to cross the street. I mean there's a delivery of -- trucks, there's emergency vehicles, that come along the streets all the time so the otter is out in the street -- we don't want it to get killed. And we also the same point we don't want to lose all our koi. And the otter will stay here until every single koi is gone so we realise that.

JD: Vancouver's director of parks Howard Normann speaking at a press conference about an otter that has terrorized the koi at a local garden. A wildlife relocation expert as you heard is hoping to capture the otter within the next couple of days.

[Music]

Part 3: Why a longtime Christmas tree seller plans to gift his land to his community

B.C. legislature

Guest: Lorne Mayencourt

JD: The Sergeant at Arms is supposed to be the one keeping order. But earlier in this week at the B.C. legislature Sergeant at Arms Gary Lens was unceremoniously escorted off the premises along with the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly Craig James. That followed a vote by MLAs to suspend those two, pending a criminal investigation into alleged wrongdoing. And what makes this story even murkier is that the nature of that alleged wrongdoing has not been released. Not even to the two being investigated. Lorne Mayencourt is a former B.C. Liberal MLA. We reached Mr. Mayencourt in Victoria.

PA: Mr. Mayencourt what did you think when you saw Sergeant at Arms Gary Lens and Clerk Craig James escorted out of the legislature earlier this week?

LORNE MAYENCOURT: I had three emotions. One, I was shocked. Two, I felt really embarrassed for the legislature. And I also felt that I was witnessing someone making a huge mistake. By that I mean Darrly Plecas, our speaker of the House, and the way that he handled the situation. I think we will understand that it was really really wrong to do it the way that he did it.

PA: How can you say that given that we don't know anything about what these people are accused of?

LM: Well that's exactly the point -- is not only do you not know and I don't know. Neither do these individuals. Neither does Gary Lens, the Sergeant at Arms at the legislature, nor Craig James, the Clerk of the House. What I do know is those two gentlemen have served the legislature for over 30 years who have always been honorable in all of their dealings. There's never been a single complaint against either one of them in their entire work with the legislature and they were marched off like criminals.

PA: Their lawyer put out a letter today saying exactly that the "they were ejected from the legislature in what appears to have been a deliberately public and humiliating manner on the basis of secret allegations."

LM: That's exactly true. The MLAs that voted on the motion to suspend them did not know that the investigation originated when Darrly Plecas, the speaker, hired Mr. Mullen who is his special adviser to do it clandestine investigation over the last seven months.

PA: I mean to be fair most investigations are clandestine -- you don't announce to everybody you are investigating wrongdoing on their behalf.

LM: Oh absolutely. I think you're quite right about that. The difference here is that we had a basically a rent a cop that was leading the investigation. He's a former guard at a minimum security prison. He says he's conducted lots of investigations. I don't see any evidence of that. He hasn't been able to tell us of any of those ones.

PA: But there is a legit investigation into this now and I think we can focus on that. The question is should the police -- should the allegations be made public and would you stand by that in any case where the investigation is still ongoing and the gathering of information is presumably not to be tainted?

LM: So there's two things here. The first is the way in which two people that have served the province of British Columbia for decades were treated and made to look like criminals. That's my big issue. You know what? If there's ever allegations of wrongdoing at the legislature it's easy to pick up the phone and call the Auditor General. It's easy for the Speaker to convene a meeting with the House leaders and the Legislative Assembly management committee and say I have these concerns and then turn it over. But you don't start with this sneaky little affair. And I think what we have is you know someone just got a little bit carried away and now two people have been injured for their reputation. It doesn't matter right now -- I mean I certainly expect that any allegations that are brought forward about any person in the legislature need to be fully investigated but the first piece of this is why treat them like that. It was deliberately designed to humiliate them and to make them look bad in the eyes of people.

PA: As you say a lot of this is on Darrly Plecas but a lot of it is also on the MLAs of all parties that decided to go along with this. Why do you think the MLAs of all parties went along with this as their plan?

LM: They were misled. They were told by their house leaders that what Darrly Plecas, the speaker, had told them which is I've been contacted -- there's a police investigation, two special prosecutors have been appointed.

PA: All of which, was true.

LM: They did not realize that this started as a little bit of a vendetta about a year ago and it was designed to humiliate people. It's not designed to bring openness and transparency to the legislature. You don't sneak around in the dark in the legislature. You have to be up front. And there are lots of checks and balances.

PA: And then we have this whole matter of -- is it Alan Mullen, the special adviser, is a friend of Mr. Plecas. And now we're hearing that the Speaker had been trying to appoint Mullen's to one of the jobs vacated by the Sergeant of Arms and the Clerk. What do you think is going on there?

LM: Well I think that that action where he sat down with the House leaders and said I want to put my guy in is what twig the legislature to the fact that there were some awful awful misunderstanding about what was going on -- that the speaker deliberately withheld information from the House leaders and therefore members of the house. I think what it tells us is the legislature needs to meet next week and they have to have a vote of confidence on the speaker. This gentleman decided to run his own little investigation like he was Colombo or something and has made serious allegations but not specific. And he suckered them all into voting to get rid of these people and they feel awful now -- they feel -- those MLAs feel the way I do.

PA: Alright Mr. Mayencourt we have to leave it there but thank you so much for taking the time today.

LM: Bye.

JD: Lorne Mayencourt is a former B.C. Liberal MLA. We reached in Victoria.

[Music]

Lockdown drills note

JD: Earlier this week we aired some audio of children aged 5 to 11 describing what has become a regular school activity -- their school's lockdown drills. The audio was part of a Mother Jones video about school shootings in the United States. But those kind of drills aren't just happening south of the border. They are apparently also practiced here in Canada. This note came from a listener named Leanne, a teacher in Edmonton. And I a quote. "Sadly we have been performing school lockdowns here in the Alberta schools I have worked in for over a decade now. Our schools must lock all classroom doors and windows. Turn off all lights and close all window coverings. The staff and children must then sit crowded in one corner of a classroom -- furthest away from the door or windows and out of any potential line of sight from outside the classroom. Staff and children must remain utterly silent no matter what they hear outside and are not allowed to move until we receive a special prearranged verbal command over the intercom system. These drills can be a terrifying experience for children of all ages. Many special needs children are often -- are kept at home on days when these drills are scheduled as a result of the trauma such drills create for them. It is a sad comment on just how frightening our Canadian society has become even for our children simply attending school. We cannot hold our heads too much higher than Americans on this shared and not too recent Canadian reality." That is a letter from an Edmonton teacher who gave her name as Leanne. Thank you for writing.

[Music]

Gerard Batten

JD: Tommy Robinson the founder and the former leader of the far-right British nationalist group the English Defence League, has a new job. Robinson whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon has been hired as an adviser by Gerard Batten the leader of UKIP, or the UK Independence Party. The appointment is so controversial that even you UKIP's former leader, Nigel Farage, is outraged and has suggested there should be a vote of no confidence. Here is Mr. Batten defending his decision to Mark Mardell on BBC Radio's 'The World At One.'.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: We want ordinary decent working class people who are fed up with what's happening in this country, over Brexit over other things, and to come and join us and help us...

VOICE 2: The sort of people who in the past have supported the English Defence League those sort of people.

VOICE 1: We all know in our party we have a prescribed list and you cannot become a member of our party if you were formerly a BNP or national front or EDL -- although the EDL never had members so that would be a bit difficult to prove who they were. We vet people who come in.

VOICE 2: Do you want the sort of people who supported their policies, their ideas, to join you?

VOICE 1: I want people who are patriotic, who believe in this country, who want to leave the European Union and who want to live under their own constitution, their own laws, and their own political system.

VOICE 2: All racists will come to your party.

VOICE 1: No they are not. They never have been. And they never will be.

VOICE 2: You see Nigel Farage said this morning that it goes against everything that he tried to do in the party. That he wants to talk about Islam, wants to talk about immigration but it's a non racist party. And what you've done blows a hole in all of that.

VOICE 1: No it doesn't. And I'm amazed that Nigel is so concerned about this party now. He's done nothing to support UKIP in the last two years. This is not taking the party in a wrong direction because he knows me, he knows what kind of person I am.

JD: That was leader of UKIP, Gerard Batten, speaking to Mark Mardell on BBC Radio's 'The World at One.'

[Music]

Tree farm donations

Guest: Gale Rogers

JD: For more than 30 years Gale Rogers has sold cut-your-own Christmas trees on his farm just outside Napanee, Ontario. And now at 81 he is marking his final season. But he wants the community to continue to enjoy visiting his land and so he's donating it to the municipality for a park. We reach Gale Rogers in Napanee.

PA: Mr. Rogers you've been selling Christmas trees for what more than 30 years now. How's it feel to say goodbye to all of this?

GALE ROGERS: Yes that's correct. Well it's an age factor and that my family are located in a different area: Guelph and British Columbia. And so it's physically impossible for them to contribute or you know to carry on with this although they were an integral part of my planting trees. And so at some point you have to retire again which [chuckles] I am doing.

PA: Take me back to the beginning. Why did you start growing Christmas trees in the first place?

GR: Well it was a project initially for the children. We grew up in the rural area of Napanee. And as projects for the children we started growing strawberries. This was a little venture for them to earn a little bit of money so they could buy camping gear which we utilise to travel coast to coast in Canada -- camping and so on. So when that was finished and they were getting older I thought why not plant some Christmas trees because when they were young we always went out and cut our own tree. And I thought this would be a good project for them learning and also perhaps earn a little bit of change. And teamed up with the Salvation Army who we share the proceeds with. But in planting the trees the children also learned about the different species that were there and what we were planting. And after a couple of years I thought when we cut these trees or have people come and cut the trees -- it will be nothing different than a regular cornfield or something so I thought we will start inter-planting with species that will be a permanent forest. And so in the process of taking out these Christmas trees you're doing what nature does in the thinning out of species. So this had proved to be very satisfactory. And so in finishing up the project I thought why not give the town 15 acres of the property including the Christmas tree area. So the town was very gratified in going to receive this -- so it will be a park for hiking and skiing with no motorized vehicles and it'll be the opportunity for children to come and perhaps even classroom's from the schools for learning experience.

PA: Why is that important to you to get kids the opportunity?

GR: Well to me generally speaking the environment is important to me. I learned from my parents. My father liked to plant some trees and my parents said or my mother said you know you are given a lot in life and you should constantly try to return to the quality of life that you are enjoying as a result of your forefathers and generations before.

PA: Well I mean I'm looking at a picture now and it's a big beautiful forest that I can just imagine kids running through and exploring. Back to the actual farm though -- the Christmas trees that people farm out of there you must have you know people that have been coming back year after year.

GR: I'll tell you we've had families coming in as children who are bringing their children now. And the most noteworthy one was a family Ruth Wilson and Ian. And the first time that they come out with five children like little steps and spent over an hour at the farm selecting the perfect tree. And later on they come out and all were happy except this one little girl about five or six years old and she was scowling and hanging back behind. And I said what's the trouble my dear? She said they got the ugliest tree in the forest. [Laughs] So I said let me show you the most pretty tree in the forest. So I took over and selected the little spruce tree about three feet high. We cut that and I said now you take this and this is for your room. So away she goes pounding her chest and bragging to the other children. It's one of the families. And other family is the Parker family. And they had several children and they along with the Wilson children were part of planting trees with youth groups in the church and so on -- so that's been a learning experience for them and a learning experience for me -- gratifying seeing young children learning about nature etc.

PA: Oh I bet. You must feel a little like Santa with you know giving the Christmas trees, having the kids come in, now giving the land away to the city is a park.

GR: Yes. It's like watching the children open presents Christmas time. It's the giver that receives more than the recipient.

PA: Do you hope that people will still be able to get their Christmas trees there after you are gone?

GR: There are a few families -- I have some other -- some of the land adjacent to the farm has a few Christmas trees. So those people this year -- that come, that have been coming for years, I will invite them to return.

PA: So here it is -- your last Christmas season before you donate the land. What's going to be going through your head as these new families, old families, old friends come in to get one last Christmas?

GR: Again I think that the ones that I've been close to and seen generations -- I will encourage them to come back and perhaps use the park too. I have a nice log cabin that I have built with logs from the property and we put a little fire on there and so hot chocolate for the children and so they're welcome. I have encouraged people to come back at any time to the farm and walk around if they so desire.

PA: Well that's great. Gale Rogers it's just been a great pleasure to speak with you.

GR: Peter it is mine. Thank you sir.

PA: Take care.

JD: We reach Gale Rogers in Napanee, Ontario. And for pictures of his cut-your-own Christmas tree farm go to our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

‘The Lab’

JD: His work in the field of medicine was literally priceless and earned him a Nobel Prize. And now a different kind of work by renowned Canadian medical scientist Sir Frederick Banting has earned something else of note, a lot of notes actually, three hundred thirteen thousand two hundred and fifty of them to be exact. That is the amount Sir Fredrick's 1925 oil on board painting 'The Lab' fetched at an auction in Toronto this week. A record sale for work by the artist who granted is better known as the co-discoverer of insulin. It is also ten times the price the painting was expected to garner prior to the sale at the Heffel Fine Arts Auction House. And last month As It Happens spoke with medical historian Christopher Rutty about the work. Here's some of his conversation with Carol.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRISTOPHER RUTTY: Well, it's painting looking out the window, or near a window of the medical building that used to be University of Toronto, to a shelf of bottles in various lab research equipment —sort of a bit of a mess in some ways. It kind of reflects Banting's mood at the time actually, it was painted in 1925. He painted it the just before he met A.Y. Jackson, who he would later go on to paint a lot of stuff with and develop a style — more of a Group of Seven traditional outside, landscape kind of style. And by this point, just before that he had met Lawren Harris. But Banting never saw himself as an artist in the same sense as the other guys. He was definitely a researcher and a doctor. But in ‘25 when this was painted he was kind of in a bad place in some ways. Well, his marriage wasn’t going that well, he was a bit more on the depressed side, I suppose, just because he was almost famous a guy in Canada at the time, Nobel Prize winner, all kinds of pressure on him to do something. What's next after insulin? So he was not happy in that sense. It wasn't that easy to sort of recapture that glory. And then the whole experience had changed his life and he didn't expect that — he’d have been happier as a country doctor.

CO: But now, he said elsewhere that he at the age of 50 wanted to give up all his science and paint full time, become the artist. And then he died at the age of 49 in this plane crash.

CR: Yeah, in 1941 he was involved with research, medical research for the military basically, and he was on his way over to England when the plane crashed, so that’s the tragic end to his life.

CO: Just finally, this painting is now going up for auction in November. Where will the money go that this painting will get?

CR: The buyer's premium is going to the Banting & Best Diabetes Centre, which is an extra-departmental unit of the faculty of medicine at U of T, which is where all this started. It’s coming back home in some ways.

JD: Medical historian Christopher Rutty speaking with Carol last month about Sir Frederick Banting's 1925 painting 'The Lab' -- which just fetched more than three hundred thousand dollars at auction in Toronto

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November 23, 2018 Episode Transcript

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