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The Current Transcript for November 6, 2018

Host: Anna Maria Tremonti

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

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VOICE: If Texas falls, America falls with it. It sounds dramatic, but we believe it.

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: He's a Republican whose politics course through his Texas blood. A man who cries at the history of the Lone Star State.

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VOICE: I've gotten a lot of secret messages. I have a lot of friends who say, don't tell my husband that I'm going to vote for Beto.

AMT: She's a Republican, evangelical Christian voting Democrat for the first time in her life. Texas looms large over US politics with its preference for Republicans. Now the Trump presidency and a Senate race pitting Democrat Beto O'Rourke against Republican Ted Cruz, have exposed new thinking. Today we're on a political road trip through the heart of Texas. We will meet voters who break the stereotype. Buckle up for that in just a moment. And in an hour, we're in Saskatchewan, where trust passed laws are raising concerns around vigilantism, racism and crime. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti. This is The Current.

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Fed up with their liberal home states, U.S. conservatives find a place they can belong in Texas

Guests: Paul Chabot, Derek Baker

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[Bell rings]

Paul Chabot rings the bell that hangs by the kitchen. It's a holdover from his Navy days. He's still in the Reserves.

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[Bell rings]

VOICE: Some people call it a dinner bell. I just call it a hey get your tail downstairs now.

AMT: Sometimes a little military order makes sense in a busy family. Paul and his wife Brenda have four young kids and there's a lot going on.

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VOICE: We got them involved in everything, from soccer to baseball, the plays, I mean today you're going to see the juggling act that we do. We have one.

AMT: Brenda says they grabbed their own piece of the American dream.

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VOICE: We love Texas. We have such a, I just say a better life here. It's more kid-friendly, family-friendly here in Texas.

AMT: It's everything they hoped for. Everything, that for a while at least, it seemed like they could never have.

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VOICE: First and foremost, we wouldn't been able to afford a house like this and the land that we have in a neighborhood like this. It's more relaxed because our house payments aren't as expensive, though the cost of living and gas is less.

AMT: A picture perfect suburban house on three quarters of an acre of land, where parents ferry the neighborhood kids around on golf carts and where the lawns are dotted with Ted Cruz signs. "Tough as Texas" is the slogan. On the corner of the Chabot's lot is a simple red sign. Vote Republican it says. Here in McKinney, Texas, one hour north of Dallas, the Chabots are they say finally among people who think like them.

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VOICE: We are all refugees.

AMT: Refugees. We don't usually use that term unless we're talking people escaping war or famine.

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VOICE: We are all refugees from California, moving to Texas and I think we all feel the same way.

AMT: You heard him. There's not even a hint of irony as he explains why families like his are nothing less than political economic escapees. We don't leave California laughing and smiling because we have memories. We're human beings. We remember the good times of being there, but California is a shell of itself. It's like going to a funeral or a wake and you're looking at the casket and the soul is no longer there. So all you have are those memories. That's what California is.

AMT: Paul says everything that's gone wrong with California has its roots in politics. The Liberal Democrat policies of entitlement, regulation, taxation. He says it's made his home state unlivable for regular folks and this became apparent when he made his own run for Congress in 2014.

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VOICE: We are fighting on our own in California. We had no real Republican Party support. And what I realize now is most Republicans have given up on California. We are fighting on our own. I ran again in 16 and we ran on the exact same platform and my opponent ran on open borders, legalizing drugs, pro-abortion, you know just the things that are counter to everything we believed in. And so right after that election loss, it became crystal clear to my wife and I that you cannot help people who don't want to help themselves. This is what they voted for. They can have it, but I don't have to be here.

AMT: What he's identified speaks to the divide, geographical, political, ideological, that is so much a part of the U.S. psyche right now and it's playing out in this U.S. midterm election fight. And yet in the true entrepreneurial style of their adopted state, Paul and Brenda have turned that offensive California politics into a Texas business opportunity. Their company, Conservative Move, helps right wing families relocate from liberal blue states to red ones like Texas.

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VOICE: I mean in Texas, it's not an odd thing, but I conceal carry 24/7.

AMT: And they have found the perfect business partner in Derek Baker.

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AMT: What is that?

This is just a Glock 43. I have the Glock 19 and the Glock 43, I go back and forth.

AMT: He's got that pistol, the Glock, on his belt, a slim copy of the Constitution with him always and in case you still aren't clear on his politics, listen to what he named his three kids.

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VOICE: You'll love this Reagan, Austin, Lincoln. Stephen F. Austin was what we consider the father of Texas.

AMT: The family dog by the way.

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VOICE: Named Gideon out of the Bible. So my name's Derek Baker and I have the privilege of being what we call the lead Texas agent. I'm an eighth generation Texan. I've traveled all over the state.

AMT: And what's the goal of the company?

VOICE: Think it's a simple goal. We want to rescue people from blue states that can no longer afford to live there. So we view it as rescuing families.

AMT: So where are people coming from and what are they telling you?

VOICE: They're coming, I would say 90 percent of them are coming from California. But we've had people come from Washington, Oregon, Utah, Massachusetts, New York, Maryland.

AMT: But you're telling me it's the politics that gets them interested in coming and then it becomes the great living deal or like how does that fit together? What comes first?

VOICE: I think primarily when the vast majority people, they contact us or they hear about us because they are their frustration level is really high. They're disgusted. I mean right now there's, every time there's something bad happens in California, I know it only because our phone calls increase. Honest to God. So when I know there's about two, if I can tell a quick story. So two months ago, we got e-mails and phone calls jumped. They spiked over a two or three day period. And I you know I don't always pay attention to what's happening in the California legislature and like something must have happened. Well we looked. Well they had just proposed this 50 gallon a day water restriction. And I mean you have a you know a couple with three four kids, you can't even live on that. You can't take baths. So that's the kind of draconian measures that California takes some times. So it's the political that initially encourages them or forces them to start, they just Google, how do I get out of here. Where should I go? Conservative Move pops up. They call us then they realize oh wow this is a really good financial decision for me. Oh and the schools, this is the, McKinney for example, we're ranked the safest city our size in the state of Texas. And overall crime is significantly lower. People come here and they say this is legitimate, I thought they were joking. They said, where's all your homeless people? And I had to understand that where they're coming from, they have homeless cities. They have tent cities and we just don't have that. And another person said how did they clean up all the graffiti so fast? We don't have the graffiti, you know. So it's a completely different thing when they come and see it and when you find great homes and good schools and we have you know number one economy in the country, between number one and three for the last five years, Texas has. Collin County by the way has the lowest tax rate of any county in Texas and that's saying something. There's 254 counties. Every single statewide elected official is Republican. Every single countywide elected official in Collin County is Republican. So it's not a coincidence that we're doing well.

AMT: Collin County is doing well. The Dallas Fort Worth area is thick with defense contractors, tech companies, aeronautics specialists. Unemployment is a lowly 3.2 percent statewide. It's a mere 4 percent. Then again, California's unemployment rate is the same as Texas. California has a budget surplus in the billions. Texas, a debt in the billions. But you heard him on the tax rate. Texas is about limited government, deregulation, no and low taxation and for committed, conservative Republicans, that's the ultimate draw.

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VOICE: It's funny, when I was talking to this prospective client last night, he's excited. He actually asked me, he's like how do I become a Texas resident, so I can stop paying these you know these extraordinarily high state income tax. And I walked him through that process and I said I'd introduce him to a CPA and he said look I'm ready. And when I get there, I want to get engaged. And I said great, that's what we do. We help people, but we also introduce them. I mean in Collin County, there are 17 different Republican conservative and Tea Party clubs, just in Collin County. And we count that as a good thing. We all work together. And so we don't take, Paul doesn't take, I don't and the Republicans here, we don't take anything for granted. We didn't take Beto running against Ted Cruz for granted. So I have seen more block walking and we're going to have a massive effort of poll grading. We don't want to win. We want to win big and we honestly want to crush them, so they don't even try to run here. And it's not because I dislike you know Democrats or liberals, it's the policies that they espouse, I believe hurt people. It's not what Texas is about. You know once upon a time it wasn't really what America was about, but we can do only what we can locally and in Texas and we're doing everything we can to protect Texas and keep it you know a bastion of liberty that believes in the first amendment and the second amendment and the 10th Amendment and individual rights.

AMT: The face off between Beto O'Rourke and Ted Cruz, Beto O'Rourke is getting a lot of attention because of how he seems to be playing in the country.

VOICE: Yes.

AMT: But it's not manifesting in the numbers in the polls here. Where's the disconnect?

VOICE: In O'Rourke's last cycle, last three month fundraising cycle, I believe he raised 38 million. He broke every single record there was. But if you look at that, significant portion of the money he's getting, it's coming from out of Texas because those, you're not going to find that kind of money in Texas. He couldn't fund his campaign to that level in Texas because the majority of people in Texas, don't believe in what he believes: abortion rights, more restrictive gun control rights, expansive you know universal health care. And he says this, I mean this isn't an accusation, he says it himself on stage and I saw his commercial yesterday. So there is an absolute fascination with Liberal candidates and Texas is the number one target of liberals in the country. Oh they think as we do, if they are able to take us down to Texas, they can do anything. And so they're willing to pour money. Now the beautiful thing is, our Governor Abbott said last night, is they're welcome to it because they're feeding the mouths of Texans when they give all this money to Beto and Beto raises it because he's going to waste it. Cruz is still going to win by 10 points, but it just helps our economy. So no problem.

AMT: But that is the thing. You don't want them to get in here because if they get in here that sends a message to the rest of the country.

VOICE: It certainly does. And it would mean, so you know right now every single statewide elected officials are Republican. Would be a big deal if you know, if one Democrat got in. You know, yes. You know George P. Bush is having a very difficult time right now.

AMT: George P. Bush, son of Jeb, running in the state that saw the two older George's of the family, his grandfather and his uncle, take the presidency. Right now, he's running for a second term as Texas land commissioner.

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VOICE: And I'll be honest, the reason he's doing that is because he's espousing some policies that don't look very Republican or conservative. He's doing some things that are upsetting people about the Alamo.

AMT: What's he doing on the Alamo?

VOICE: The short version is he has proposed a reimagining the Alamo campaign and the accusations or belief is that it is tearing away some of the history with the Alamo and trying to make it into some type of theme park, like at Six Flags or something. So you know the Alamo, it's intrinsic to Texas. It's very important to our heritage. See me getting emotional about the Alamo. It's just because he's you know he's trying to impact what many people believe is perhaps the most sacred thing in Texas. You know, the fact that they literally fought to to the last man.

[Music]

AMT: To the last man. Derek's eyes are welling up and as he talks, one large tear rolls down his cheek. The Alamo is a shrine. A two centuries old cautionary tale and a point of pride, especially now in the midst of a pitched political battle for control in Washington.

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VOICE: Well as they say here often you know Texas is the last great hope for America. I mean you literally hear that. If Texas falls, America falls with it. From a you know, a conservative Republic constitutional perspective. So sounds dramatic, but we believe it.

[Music]

AMT: And yet the Democrats aren't giving up. Head down the road on this same day to the fast growing city of Wylie. Drive past the Southfork Ranch. Remember the TV show Dallas? Well the ranch was real. Turn just before Solomon's Barbecue and there's a craft brewery dressed up with hay bales and Texas flags to welcome a posse of Democrat election hopefuls. Supporters are wearing their greatest hopes and expectations on their lapels, which means they're all wearing those distinctive campaign buttons for Beto O'Rourke. A big Beto in black and white. In his 40s and unapologetically progressive, Beto O'Rourke is just two years younger than his opponent for the U.S. Senate, the Republican incumbent, Ted Cruz. But while Cruz with his backing from President Trump and his entrenched Republican supporters mirrors establishment Texas, Beto with a punk rock background, a refusal to take big money and a promise of compassion, has captured the imagination of dormant Democrats and even restless Republicans. And every Democratic Party candidate is trying to grab a piece of that excitement.

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VOICE: My name is Ramona Brumfield. I'm running for Justice of the Peace Precinct 3 in Collin County.

AMT: Every level of officialdom as part of this midterm vote extravaganza and for this party every position has been elusive.

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VOICE: Not only as a Democratic candidate, but as a woman of colour, it's a very uphill battle. But I'm up for the challenge. I believe that mindsets and perceptions are changing and the typical view of what a candidate looks like or should be is changing. And I'm here to bring true change to my community. We have some serious issues out here that I'm addressing and a lot of people are taking notice.

AMT: While the Republicans boast of prosperity, the Democrats warn of the pitfalls.

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AMT: You have homeless in this county?

VOICE: Yes ma'am. We have over right here 2000 homeless kids that's been impacted by the high eviction rates that are going on in the J-P courtrooms and nobody has ever dared to take notice or to even put the correlation together. I feed the homeless every fourth Saturday of the month. I launched a program in April and I had over 20,000 families since I launched it.

AMT: A big blue Democrat bus arrives. It has slogans in English on one side, Spanish on the other. The crowd here isn't very big, but it gets all fired up for one man with a commanding presence.

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Crowd cheering

AMT: It's hard not to notice a former NFL linebacker. Colin Allred is a civil rights lawyer now. He worked with President Obama. He's in a tight congressional race and that's a good sign for him, given how long the incumbent Pete Sessions has held this for the Republicans.

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VOICE: In order to pay for this tax bill in which 83 cents out of every dollar went to people at the very top of our economy. What are we going to do? Well that's not the North Texas that I know. That's not the North Texas that we believe in. And guess what, we're going to send a message here that that's not who we are. And it's going to be because of folks like you.

AMT: Texas is famous for its gerrymandered districts that favor Republican candidates and make outsiders think Democrats don't even exist here.

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VOICE: Yes I'm retired military.

AMT: I meet a man at this rally who looks as if he's in the wrong place. I served in Germany, Korea and stateside. Dick Hildebrand is wearing a baseball cap with an army logo. He's convinced there's a bit of a mood for change here in Texas.

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VOICE: That orange haired person on Pennsylvania Avenue, I think has been our best recruiter.

AMT: Start talking politics in Texas and you end up down a constitutional rabbit hole. So I just stayed there.

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AMT: I want to ask you about something I had a long talk with a Republican today who argued that constitutionally, Republicans especially in Texas, represent what America really is and that the left, the Liberals, as embodied by the Democrats, are simply not constitutionally American. What do you say to that?

VOICE: I think that's a 230 year old question. I mean we just have a fundamental difference in viewpoint as to what the government should do. The Republicans seem to think that government is the enemy of the people and the Democrats are more we are looking out for the public good.

AMT: Do you worry that your country has become so polarized now on politics?

VOICE: Very much so. Very much so. And I find myself falling into that same trap of trying to avoid interaction with conservatives. Something has got to happen. I mean we can't keep going in this direction and survive as a nation and survive as a culture.

AMT: And therein lies the conundrum: two sides each convinced that the nation is on a precipice and that the politics of the other will send them all tumbling over. We're going to break for the news. When we come back, we'll hear from people who once fit a mythical stereotype and now have shattered it. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti in the heart of Texas and in the thick of U.S. politics. This is The Current.

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How Trump's immigration rhetoric is playing out in Texas

Guests: Tess Clarke, Hope Mustakim, Terry Stevener

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AMT: If you were with us in our last half hour, you know we're on a road trip through the Texas heartland on this U.S. midterm election day. Texas is an economic and political powerhouse. Three of its cities are among the 10 most populous in the U.S. By mid-century, it's projected to have as many people as New York and California combined. It is a giant state, with an outsized influence on American politics and it is a seemingly Republican bastion. Explore the digital dial as you glide along soaring overpasses and wide open roads and you'll hear that conservatism in the opinionated musings of the talk radio hosts who crowd the AM airwaves.

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VOICE: Two million women getting their hands on publicly funded contraception.

AMT: The topics will change, but they're always political and there is always outrage.

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VOICE: If you've got these left wing crazies or others saying you .. my uterus, don't tell me how many children i can slaughter with abortion.

AMT: And when the conversation turns as it inevitably will to reproductive rights, you will find yourself navigating the crossroads of politics and religion in America.

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VOICE: Asking me to pay for your sex life.

AMT: The Republican hard line on abortion and its reverence for a certain version of family has given the party a lock on the loyalties of evangelical Christian women.

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My husband and I started a non-profit in Dallas and we've been here for 10 years.

AMT: For most of her life Tess Clarke has been one of those women.

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VOICE: I grew up in a home, we were at church every Sunday and Wednesday. My mom worked at the church.

AMT: A reliable, predictable Republican voter.

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VOICE: I voted straight Republican ticket until 2016. I just was told that Christians vote for the Republican Party because they're pro-life.

AMT: But something changed for Tess in the last presidential election year.

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VOICE: 2016 rolled around, I voted Republican in the primaries, not for Donald Trump, but when he got the nomination, I'm going this man is stands for nothing that I stand for, as just a follower of Jesus.

AMT: Increasingly the Republican line on refugees and immigrants was out of line with what she was witnessing through the organization she created with her husband, Seek the Peace.

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VOICE: We've been in the refugee community for 10 years. We used to live in that community and I think as we've got to know people in the margins and as we've got to love people who have totally different stories than we have, who have I mean some of the most resilient amazing people you could ever meet. So smart and it's just full of so much grace, who've a lot of times fled where they're from because of religious persecution. Who haven't been welcomed to any table.

AMT: And then earlier this year the Trump administration ordered a crackdown on undocumented migrants. Children were separated from parents.

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VOICE: I was recently at the border and I actually got to go in the detention center where I was with a delegation of women and they let us in and I saw the babies in the cages and it was just, it was one of the most dehumanizing things I've ever seen. To look across that space, to lock eyes with someone and to know that I live in a country that is doing this to them. People who are seeking asylum here, are being locked up.

AMT: And now for Tess Clarke there's no turning back.

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VOICE: This is one of the things that drives so much of my conviction, where I feel like I can talk to people and tell them what I saw. I mean my hope is to change people's minds. If they're on the fence or if they're not sure, I've had a lot of friends say you know I don't want to vote for Cruz, but with the abortion stuff, I don't know that I can vote for better Beto, maybe I won't vote at all. So it's me being able to kind of talk more about let's look at, what does it truly mean to be pro-life, all the way around. And how can we find some common ground in that space. And that's what I've been trying to do with people.

AMT: So what does it mean to be pro-life all the way around? What's the answer?

VOICE: I mean for me, I do believe that life starts at conception and I also believe the Syrian refugees life is equally as valuable as the baby's life in the womb and so I've been looking for politicians who are fighting for life holistically. I don't want to have to choose between those things and so I want someone in office who's pro woman.

AMT: And so at least one staunch Republican has turned away from the Grand Old Party.

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VOICE: I think I probably would have voted Democrat no matter what because of the way I feel like the Republican Party is going, since Trump came in to office. It's just it's not the party that I thought I knew. And maybe it's just showing its true colors, right? I don't know.

AMT: In this midterm she's voting Beto O'Rourke for senator, the Democrat. This is one of the most contentious midterm Senate races, as the now Trump favorite, Ted Cruz, fights to keep the seat Republican.

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VOICE: I will be casting a vote for Beto O'Rourke and I'm really excited to vote for him and this is actually going to be the first Democrat I've ever voted for. I'm really excited about it because I feel like so much of his spirit aligns with mine, maybe on every single issue we don't agree and that's not what I'm looking for, right. I'm not looking for a politician to save me or Texas, but I'm looking for someone who I think is going to build bridges. Who's going to work on both sides. Who's acknowledging the humanity in people and who is treating them as humans, right and whose policies are informed by human stories, by people who otherwise are left to fend for themselves.

AMT: And when she fessed up about her new political leanings to her girlfriends, they fessed up too.

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VOICE: I've gotten a lot of secret messages. I have a lot of friends who say don't tell my husband, but I'm going to vote for Beto or I have friends who say you know I feel like I've never heard anyone say that before. I've wanted a different way to think about this.

AMT: It was tempting to see the torrential rains that followed us on our Texas trip from Dallas south to Austin, as a metaphor for the washing away of political assumptions. But the closer we got to the vote, the less clear it was, who might sink and who might float.

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VOICE: All federal officials or federal agents on the ground were put on full alert.

AMT: And everywhere in this larger than life state, there's a history, which brings us to Waco.

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VOICE: Texas we have been watching as they have sent vehicles in to ram holes in the compound and send tear gas in.

AMT: You might remember that Waco. Back in 1993, it became emblematic of the tension between big government and regular folk, when a federal raid on a religious sect, the Branch Davidians, saw 79 adults and children killed, including their leader David Koresh. It's still seen as the heavy hand of government.

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VOICE: Her husband David and their five kids from moving to Waco. I knew I had just the house for them. Bryce and Emily.

AMT: In the last few years, Waco has gained a more aspirational kind of fame.

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VOICE: Moved from Austin to Waco, Texas.

AMT: But the suburban daydreams and reality TV renovations of Chip and Joanna just feed into another stereotype. Waco two struggles with poverty and the immigration issues that trouble Tess Clarke are evident here too. In a small office down a road marked with puddles, rally posters, fact boards and a white board to do list crowd the walls.

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VOICE: My name's Hope Mustakim and I'm the executive director and community organizer for the Waco Immigrants Alliance.

AMT: Hope Mustakim has a lot in common with Tess Clarke. Raised Catholic in Louisiana, moving to a charismatic evangelical church by her early 20s, but a social work degree brought her to a political awareness. She's an activist with a special concern for immigrants and refugees.

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VOICE: Typically, even though we're not exclusively here only for undocumented immigrants that tends to be who in our community is most exploited and most marginalized, so as far as the immigrant population goes.

AMT: And the plight of one woman takes up much of Hope's energy these days, Estela Fajardo. She arrived undocumented from Mexico in her teens. She's now in her 40s. She owns hair salons, a moving company, a small ranch.

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VOICE: She is a member of the Syntex Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

AMT: She's known as a good employer. She's been involved with the church, two churches, in fact. She's been a big part of this community for decades and she's been undocumented all that time.

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VOICE: Yeah she was in a marriage for 20 years with a U.S. citizen who was abusive. He never allowed her to adjust her status. Anytime she would apply, he would throw the papers away.

AMT: And then Estela got arrested for buying what turned out to be stolen goods. She says she had no idea. And now for over two and a half years, she is stuck in legal limbo, fearful of Homeland Security's Immigration Customs Enforcement or ICE.

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VOICE: The only reason Estela hasn't been able to bail out is because ICE has a detainer on her. So the minute she would post bail, ICE could take her into custody and deport her.

AMT: Just to be clear, Estela Fajardo was so established in Waco that she was on the re-election poster for the local sheriff a few years ago, a Republican. But that means nothing now. She's just another illegal, sitting in jail.

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VOICE: What would you like to know? What would you like to know about Estela?

AMT: Terry Stevener is Estela's partner.

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VOICE: Probably the hardest working woman I ever met in my life. Me and her met, probably 12 years ago. She's got four beautiful children, one with me, three by prior marriage. Once again Estela was the most hardest working woman I've ever seen in my life. Seven days a week. She never took a day off. Now she would always make time to do something with the kids, but even when we would be out doing things, that phone of hers was constantly ringing. She was staying busy, but she would donate like her moving trucks. She would let the local, one of the local churches, use them every week to go pick up food and deliver to the food pantries and stuff like that. She would always do discounts and stuff for elderly or people that were in need. She would you know help them out.

AMT: So how old is your son now?

VOICE: Three years and three quarters of another year. He'll be 4 in December.

AMT: How old was he when she was taken into custody?

VOICE: Just turned 1 year old. Just a little bit over 1 year old.

AMT: How often does he get to see her or she get to see him?

VOICE: He gets to see her once a week. And it's not in person. You're, the visitation center is one place, the jail is another place. So all your own is like a 12 inch monitor with a television screen you know and a telephone.

AMT: So she doesn't get to hold him or play with him or anything?

VOICE: Oh no, no. There's no physical contact at all. It's just you know to Dylan his mom is a TV character. He knows who mommy is. She you know, she calls us on the phone at night, but he hasn't got to be held by her, since he was one. And that hurts.

AMT: What's that like for you to see that?

VOICE: It's hard to talk about, it's gonna make me tear up because he misses her and she misses him. She's already missed out on three years of his life just about, important years. He was being breastfed, had a very close relationship as a baby with his mom like most do and to this day when I watch him sleep, I see his whole lips moving like he's breastfeeding. And it hurts because I know he misses her and he asked me where's mom? And I tell him she's at work. You know I don't know what else to say. She's at work and it's tough. It's tough. You know what I'm saying. And for Dylan I think about the you know is it going to hurt him later in life? Do I need to get him into counseling? You know things like that's already on my mind, wondering what you know what is this doing to him?

AMT: What's it doing you?

VOICE: Oh you know, us men we don't like to admit weakness. We really don't, but I'll tell you it's been, I've been through some hard things in my life, some very hard things, but this has been the most challenging because it's just continuing you know. It's been going on for almost three years straight now and to feel helpless like I can't help my son, can't help her. That's what it feels like. And so it makes you feel less than a man.

AMT: All of this has been Terry Stevener's political awakening.

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VOICE: I really had not paid attention to politics in Texas. I've always considered myself right in the middle. I've never been a Republican, I've never been a Democrat and I've never voted one time in my life, but I've never really truly believed in our system, ever. Even before this, I truly never believed in it. I've always felt like you know it's a rich versus poor thing and you're either on one side or the other. And I've never believed either side to be honest with you. I just consider myself a very neutral person you know so to speak. Now, honestly since this has affected me so close personally, I feel that our country is again trying too hard to make it available for people to become legal here.

AMT: And so in today's mid-term elections, for the first time in his life, Terry Stevener will vote. And in the race for Senate, he's going with a Democrat, Beto O'Rourke. The Democrats almost expect that kind of sentiment around immigration to translate into votes, especially among Hispanic voters, but it's not so straightforward.

[Sounds of drums and brass instruments]

AMT: We head further down the road, it's still raining hard, to the Friday Night Lights of the massive football stadium in a place called Temple. The tubas and trombones and trumpets of the huge teenage marching bands blast from beneath plastic capes. The competing high school teams are soaking wet on slick astroturf. James R. sits in the soggy bleachers cheering and inspired by the hometown wildcats, but kind of fed up with the politics he sees around him.

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VOICE: Because of the things that are happening now and you know violence and all this stuff going around, lies, fake news and all this stuff. It's not normal. I think there's a lot of lies going on there, on TV, on certain networks. Just about all of them except for a few.

AMT: And so in the race for Senate, this Hispanic voter is sticking by the Republicans.

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VOICE: Cruz, yes, because he's pretty honest and he's done a good job for you know for being a Senator and from Texas. That's why I'm going to vote for him.

AMT: A few rows down Marilyn E. sits under a huge umbrella and talks politics between cheers for her grandson. He's playing for the visiting Eagles.

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VOICE: Number one, you know with the immigration issues and other stuff, that's the big one that everybody knows about.

AMT: What do you think about that?

VOICE: About immigration?

AMT: Yeah.

VOICE: You know everybody needs to be treated equally, with fairness. I'm about justice and fairness.

AMT: She calls herself a proud Democrat, but in the crucial Senate race, they don't have her vote yet.

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VOICE: I'm not sure yet. I'm going to do early vote, my husband and I, but we're not sure yet. I have to do more research about each and every one of them, so that I can better do my elections, you know and then vote for the right person.

AMT: The U.S. Census Bureau says that within four years by 2022, Hispanics will dominate the Texas population. Democrats salivate at that statistic. After all, with a Republican president who vilifies Hispanic immigrants and all those heartbreaking tales of families torn apart, surely Hispanic Texans will flock to the Democratic Party.

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Where my family's from which are on the border.

AMT: But Ivan Andarza has been working for years to trounce all over that expectation.

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VOICE: You see right here it says my last name Andarza. Back in those days you wanted take a shower, you know like the old cowboy movies when they're in a thing, you had to go to one of those places.

AMT: He's an immigration lawyer and a picture on his office wall underlines his deep cultural and business roots in Texas and Mexico.

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VOICE: On the Rio Grande, on the border with the United States, Brownsville and Matamoros right on the border.

AMT: His family ties straddle the border, Brownsville, Texas on one side of the Rio Grande, Matamoros, Tamaulipas on the other.

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I was born in the American side.

AMT: But his political passions scrape up against that Democratic Party dream of a blue Hispanic revolution in Texas.

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VOICE: I've always been a Republican. I've participated in Republican politics for years since my time in Brownsville. I used to be president of the Brownsville Republican Club back in the late 90s.

AMT: We are in Austin now, the state capitol and a bastion of proud Texas Democrats, though with gerrymandered constituencies that stretch in curious patterns from the inner city to the ranches far beyond, they are still routinely trounced. Add to those odd electoral borders, Republicans who play the long game and the fight for the Hispanic vote has a history here with Andarza's group, Hispanic Republicans of Texas, the HRT.

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VOICE: It was back in the years when we had Governor Bush and he brought in a lot of Hispanics to the Republican Party, especially down in south Texas. It was very in those days, it was wonderful to see so many lifelong Democrats come in and pitch in for the presidential race when George W. ran for president. So he very much united, he brought in a lot of conservative Hispanics to the Republican Party.

AMT: And how did he do that? Like what was the attraction?

VOICE: Well he showed up. That was that one of the main things. A lot of times Hispanic Republicans or just Hispanics, we're not, maybe ignored, yeah ignored why not. But when Bush came in, he kind of took a whole state strategy and he actually showed up. He went down to I saw him in Braswell a few times. He would go down there, meet people, people liked him. And when they got to know more Republicans, they got to see that they weren't these you know devils with horns that they were talked about, but just normal people talking about the same kind of issue that we're interested in. He attracted a lot more Democrats and Hispanics to the Republican cause.

AMT: Remember that old Clinton line, it's the economy stupid. The Republicans knew that.

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VOICE: You know a lot of first generation Americans are business owners because we don't have the connections. So we kind of have to make it on your own. You start your own business, whether it be a small, you go to Austin Tortorella or a small restaurant and so they're very much entrepreneurs. So we want to make sure that you know that they see that the policies that we promote are things that help their businesses and when and when they see that, they align much more with the Republican politics.

AMT: Ivan is convinced Hispanic citizens in Texas care more about taxes than the threat of a big bad border wall or detention centers or deportation. After all he notes, those who can vote are not undocumented.

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VOICE: It is an issue, but it is not the main issue for Hispanic Republicans, in general or Hispanics in general. It is still jobs. We've got the recently first generation, which are mainly like business owners. We have people who've been here forever, who basically you cannot tell the difference between being an Anglo or a Hispanic as far as politics and you do have some people who don't have any documentation and yes you know a lot of the news is focused on that. But you know this is, we're talking elections and though it could affect their children's vote and how they see politics, but of course a lot of that we see they just can't vote. So it doesn't really affect the vote that much. Remember we're in Texas. Detention centers have been here forever. During the Obama administration, separation families is kind of where that began. I know for an outsider it could be very shocking, but it's you know it's the process.

AMT: Ivan believes Democratic Party expectations about the Hispanic vote seriously underestimate the depth of social conservatism in this state.

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VOICE: Well it's huge. I mean we come at least myself, a Catholic family, we're very close and everyone I know is very close. We sometimes even live multigenerational. So that part is a part that ever since we're trying to grow the Republican party has been focused on, especially the abortion issue. But really I think in the end, we don't own the Hispanic vote, neither does the Democrats. We have to earn it every day and that's our mindset. We have to earn that vote. Yes, there's natural ways that we can reach out and religion is one of them, but we're not taking it for granted. We're going to earn that vote every day.

AMT: Still he's supporting a president whose tweets and statements do not appear to reflect what the Republicans call family values. Seems that's different.

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VOICE: In the end, it's about getting things done. All the rest is kind of like a sideshow, it's trying to get the votes and try to get your base up, but in the end it's what you get done what gets you elected. That's what people care about in the end and that's what they'll eventually vote on. They vote on economy. They vote if things are good. If your economy is bad, you could be the greatest in the world, people will vote against you. What affects people down to their level, to their personal life, is what people vote on.

AMT: But as we've learned on this trip through one swath of Texas, politics becomes personal. And when that happens, votes matter. The vote is today. We'll see what's personal and what's not, soon enough. We want to thank the journalist and author Lawrence Wright for his insights. If you want to understand US politics, read his book, God Bless Texas. Geoff Turner was my travel buddy in Texas. He is the producer of this documentary, As Goes Texas. We have more stories and pictures from Texas on our website cbc.ca/thecurrent. Go to our Twitter feed @TheCurrentCBC or check out my Instagram @AMTremonti. And stay with us, in our next half hour, a new push to combat rural crime in Saskatchewan is welcomed by some, but raising flags for others. This is The Current.

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Saskatchewan's changes to trespassing law target First Nations community: FSIN Vice-Chief

Guests: Heather Bear, Tim Brodt, Doug Cuthand

AMT: Hello. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to The Current. It's been less than a year since a Saskatchewan jury returned a not guilty verdict in the case of Colten Boushie's death. Gerald Stanley had faced second degree murder charges for the 2016 incident, when Mr. Boushie, a 22-year-old from the Red Pheasant First Nation drove onto Mr. Stanley's farm with friends. The farmer testified that he was only trying to scare the group away when his gun went off accidentally, leaving Mr. Boushie dead. It was a trial that gripped the province and in many ways it still does. It was certainly top of mind for many when the governing Saskatchewan party's speech from the Throne last month, included vows to crack down on rural crime, including proposed changes to strengthening trespassing laws. That has some indigenous people concerned. Angela Bishop is a Metis lawyer from Saskatchewan. In September, she was driving to Edmonton with her two grandchildren, when they wanted to stop to stretch their legs.

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VOICE: We turned off on a side road. The road was kind of tore up. We were sliding back and forth on the road and I said Look Dakota, I don't think we're going to do our walk here. This road is too rough. We'll find another place to walk later on. All of a sudden a ATV started to follow us closely behind, coming up at a fairly rapid speed and I stopped the vehicle. That little ATV pulls up two feet from my front door where it was in close enough proximity that it would be difficult for me to get out of my vehicle. Now I looked over to the person who was in the vehicle and I noticed that there was a gun that was visible. The person who was in that vehicle got out of his car came to the front of my vehicle was within a few feet of me and started yelling at me, get off my road. He said go back to where you came from and while physically waving his arms around yelled, I own all of the land around here and he became very aggressive.

AMT: Angela Bishop says she had trouble driving away because her vehicle started to skid.

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VOICE: I was so scared like my grandkids were at risk and so was I at risk. The guy was still down the hill waiting for us and so I contacted the RCMP. When the police came and he told them that he was scared. So when they came to me, they said that this person had a previous victim of rural property crime, that he was afraid and it was okay for him to chase me down the road. That it was okay for him to essentially take the law into his own hands and who essentially has you trapped.

AMT: Well incidents such as this have many Indigenous people in Saskatchewan concerned about the ramifications of hardening trespass laws. Heather Bear is a Vice-Chief of the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations, the FSIN. It's an organisation that represents 74 different First Nations communities in Saskatchewan. Heather Bear joins us from the Ochapowace First Nation in Saskatchewan. Hello.

HEATHER BEAR: Good morning, Anna Maria.

AMT: What concerns do you have about these proposed changes to the trespass laws?

HB: Well of course, first of all, the trespass laws in light of the Boushie case that has in the past year and a half, it's reached not only national, but international stage. I guess our grave concerns are that you know some of the general public may think that you know it's okay to shoot and ask questions later when it comes to you know, whether it be a young person, an older person, entering you know a farm yard. And my worry is that you know with these proposed trespass laws, I think that you know more people are going to be in more danger, especially when and no consequences were given at that time. I'm quite certain marginalisation is part of it and I really think that you know this could promote or will promote vigilantism.

AMT: So let me ask you, one of the proposed changes is that people no longer have to post no trespassing signs on their properties. What will that do?

HB: Now that's the second issue we have is Indigenous and of course Treaty First Nations, you know with the inherent and treaty right to hunt, fish, gather, you know gather medicines. What that would mean is those rights would be more restricted and of course you know our treaty inherent rights are binding and it's you know the honor of the crown of course, but you know right now if land is not posted, you know there is that freedom to go and hunt and mostly it's sustainability to you know offset and supplement your you know your good food.

AMT: I'm going to interrupt you Heater. I want to understand though. So even, like right now there are no trespassing signs on, so members of your First Nation would know where they're not allowed to go, but suddenly they won't know? Is that the issue, they won't know if they are trespassing?

HB: Well yeah, first they wouldn't know because they would know if it was a posted land and you know and not all communities have that negative atmosphere or climate, but you know normally a farmer or a settler they would know and you know which First Nations you know frequent their land for hunting purposes. But if the land isn't posted, how would you know?

AMT: And you're saying it would create vigilantism?

HB: I believe so. I mean look at what happened in the Boushie case. A young man's life was taken and of course there was no consequences. The land was more important than you know a First Nations' life.

AMT: I have a quote for you, a clip I want to play for you. The Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities has been pushing for these changes. And Ray Orb is the group's president. Listen to what he has to say about concerns from First Nations communities.

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VOICE: I don't think it would feed into any kind of racial tension or any kind of discrimination. What we're asking for is the strengthening of that law and it really, it really it would affect everyone. It would affect anyone that's travelling around rural Saskatchewan. Anyone that regardless or recklessly goes on to someone else's land. Those kind of trespassing incidents are not done by accident. I think a lot of them are done on purpose. It could be that someone is doing some surveillance of actually, you know searching on someone else's land for something to steal or break into and so those are the kind of people it's directed at.

AMT: What do you make of what he has to say, Heather Bear?

HB: Well like in every group we have you know problematic people, but not everyone is looking to go and steal or do violence, right? You know when we're looking at you know our police force for example, RCMP, you know why can't we hire more people. You know you look at response time in our rural communities. I mean you know putting more funding into training and crime prevention for example. You know I think there's better ways, we can do better. Creating laws like this that are going to you know give people that power you know behind a trigger. For example like in the Boushie case. I think you know sitting down with and consulting with First Nations, they have some viable solutions. I mean even look at the COs for example. We have tribal councils in every community, in every part of the region. You know they have some viable solutions and of course with First Nations being overrepresented in the you know in the court system and the justice system, you know there are a lot of impacts here. I mean.

AMT: So let me ask you, we asked the Saskatchewan government for an interview. No one was made available to us. The office of the Justice Minister Don Morgan sent us a statement and I'm going to read it in part. This is the quote. "The government of Saskatchewan has made the commitment to introduce legislation to better address the appropriate balance between the rights of rural landowners and members of the public." How do you respond to that?

HB: Well I think mister, our minister needs to you know also make mention that you know it is the spirit and intent of our people, First Nations, we never gave up all our land. You know and that's why we do have rights. Those are real. That's a real true covenant when we talk about treaty and inherent rights. I mean we agreed to share the land. So I think there's a shared responsibility and that's why it's so important to have proper consultation. You know when we talk about laws you know and of course laws that may have impact you know that may be infringing on First Nations treaty and inherent rights.

AMT: Heather Bear, thank you for your time. Thank you.

HB: Thank you.

AMT: Heather Bear, Vice-Chief of the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations. That's an organization that represents 74 different First Nations communities in Saskatchewan. We reached her in the Ochapowace First Nation. Rural crime is a problem in Saskatchewan. Last year, 2017, the rate was 36 per cent higher in the country than in urban settings. Rural landowners have been demanding stricter trespass laws. Residents have also been focused on other solutions, including rural crime watch groups. Tim Brodt is a councillor for the Rural Municipality of Edenwold, north east of Regina. He's also the president of his local Rural Crime Watch chapter and he's with us now. Hi.

TIM BRODT: Good morning.

AMT: So what do you make of the concerns you just heard from the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations?

TB: Well being a hunter myself, you know we're supposed to ask for permission to go onto anybody's land before we go hunting anyways. So why should anybody be different?

AMT: I feel that you know that you should be asking permission to go on land and as a landowner, it's kind of scary that if somebody does go onto my land and gets hurt on it, I could be held liable for it.

AMT: Okay so let me ask, why a law that says you don't have to put up No Trespassing signs then? Like why hide that? I don't understand why that makes it a tougher law.

TB: Well really I don't think it makes it that much of a tougher law. It's just common sense. I think that you should be asking to go on to other people's land.

AMT: But how do you know if it's somebody else's land and not crown land if there's no sign?

TB: Well, but if you have a rural, have an RN map, it'll show who owns land and everything. Every RN office sells those maps. So if you're planning on doing any hunting in that area, it should be up to you to go and pick up one of those maps and then you can contact the people who own the land.

AMT: And if you're liable for land, but nobody knows it's your land. Are you still liable?

TB: I don't know. As far as the Saskatchewan laws go, I believe you are. If I have equipment parked on my property and somebody runs into it with a snowmobile or something, I can be held liable for it.

AMT: Tell us a bit more about why people in your community are concerned about rural crime. What are you seeing?

TB: Well our real crime watch has been operating since the mid 80s. So we've got a fairly old rural crime watch group and being that we're only about 20 minutes out of Regina, we do have a fair amount of transiat people that come through and stuff looking to you know find stuff to steal, to support their habit if they have, if they're on drugs and stuff like that and that's what we've been seeing, there's been an increase in that type of crime.

AMT: And what do you see? Like what's happening on those properties? Do you see people securing their land in a different way or their possessions in a different way?

TB: No, what we're doing, our group with the cell phones that you have nowadays and stuff, we're taking a lot more pictures and videos and turning it over to the RCMP. We are the eyes and ears of our RCMP and our community and we're not deputized so that's all we're doing is just reporting what we're seeing.

AMT: And you've got protection response teams, is that that reporting is?

TB: I wouldn't call it, it's just our citizens that everyone has a cell phone, so it's very easy to take a picture of a strange vehicle or something that you don't know what that person is doing, report it to the RCMP and they'll investigate it.

AMT: Some people are worried this could turn into a kind of vigilante justice.

TB: Again rural crime watch is not in that format. You know we're just the eyes and ears of the RCMP is the way I look at it.

AMT: And what makes a vehicle a strange vehicle when you see one?

TB: Well a lot of times, if they're going on to different property and stuff that you didn't have permission to go there. We've had problems with people stealing gas and tools, doing different things. When it's dark out and somebody sneaking around property, well it kind of raises some red flags.

AMT: This is all happening at a time when there's a broader conversation unfolding in Saskatchewan with longstanding tensions between Indigenous and non-Indigenous residents, especially in rural areas. Some people feel the provinces feeding those tensions by this. What do you say?

TB: I don't agree. I think that there's bad people and it doesn't matter what colour your skin is. And to say we're singling out one group, the only group we're trying to single out is the people that are trying to steal.

AMT: OK. And again I'm just trying to understand how not having a no trespass sign alerts people who don't know the area that they're trespassing. I just don't get that.

TB: Well again, you know I would say if you get the maps and everything then you can find out who owns property and which is crown land. There isn't a lot of crown land around anymore, most of it has been sold off.

AMT: OK so what if somebody is just driving through though? Like what if they're on a cross-country trip, they have to stop at the border and buy the map?

TB: No, definitely not. But if you're going to stay on the roads, the roads are all public roads. So there's no problem there.

AMT: Oh so the roads are public. You can't be on a private road?

TB: Definitely. The RMs are the ones who maintain the roads and everything and they are public property. They are not private ownership to any of the land owners.

AMT: OK. So the story we heard at the beginning of the woman who was confronted by someone who told her to get off the road.

TB: Yeah and again, I would question that because again, unless it's a private road and then you would have to have postings on it and stuff, but any municipal road is designated and you have to you know it's public use then.

AMT: So what do you hope to see from police going forward and your concerns for rural crime?

TB: Well the the RCMP are actually looking at a new mass notification system that would be able the RCMP to put out more bulletins and stuff. But two different residents and everything, our group we use WhatsApp right now and it's a good way to let our members know when there's problems in the area and stuff. It's a closed group, so basically there's just our members that have access to it. But the RCMP are looking at getting one that's going to be for province wide. So it's kind of exciting that way.

AMT: OK, well Tim Brodt, thank you for speaking with me.

TB: OK. Thank you.

AMT: Tim Brodt, a councillor for the rural municipality of Edenwold, which is northeast of Regina. He is the president of his local Rural Crime Watch. Doug Cuthand has been listening in. He's a columnist with The Saskatoon StarPhoenix newspaper. He's also a member of the Little Pine First Nation. He's with us from Saskatoon. Hello.

DOUG CUTHAND: Good morning.

AMT: What are you thinking as you listened to my last two guests?

DC: I was just thinking that he's a little out of touch with what's going on out there in Indian country. He made one point and it made a lot of sense is there's hardly any crown land around anymore. And that's where all our people used to hunt a lot on crown land, which was the pastures and community pastures. They've been sold off and it's pushed our people into looking for different places to hunt. So yeah there's problems and I think we have to address them.

AMT: And how do you think they should be addressed?

DC: Well I think first of all, our province has got to respect, we have a land claim agreement in Saskatchewan called Treeland Entitlement and Federal Provincial Crown Land was placed on the table and we maintain that that gave us a first right of refusal. So we should have been able to bid on these, you know put a price on these lands and negotiate when they put them up for sale, but we never have. There's hardly any crown land has gone to First Nations in Saskatchewan. So that's one thing. The second thing I think they've got to start, the province is got to sort of step back and take a look at property rights versus you know people's rights, the value of people's lives, I should say. You know, unposted land is very dangerous because that means any piece of land in Saskatchewan you can't trespass on it and so it becomes very dangerous. Our people are kind of pushed into a corner when it comes to hunting.

AMT: So in fact is that the result of if there are fewer, if there's a less of a need for a no trespassing sign, what does that actually do?

DC: I don't get your question.

AMT: Well yeah. You don't have to post a no trespassing sign. So does that mean you should just assume you can't trespass? What does that mean? How do you interpret that?

DC: I would interpret it that you can't trespass period. If there's no sign and they say you don't have to post a sign then you don't know. You just should stay off of other people's land till you find out if you can go on or not. That's quite problematic in some cases.

AMT: Well we heard our last guest say that you know most people ask or let the person who owns the land know they're going to be on it. What's wrong with that solution?

DC: No there's nothing wrong with that at all. In fact it's a good thing to make sure the farmer doesn't have any cattle or horses out there in the land when you're going to hunt on it. So yeah it's a good thing to do that. I've got to point out, we're on both sides of the fence here. My reserve has a land claim and we bought 50,000 acres of land and so we're one of the rural landowners in this province, we've got quite a bit of land. And we've had fences cut and people driving on with ATVS and we've had three green bins stolen and that's not something punk kids do. And all our problems seem to come from non-Indian people in our land. So you know this thing works both ways.

AMT: So would you be able to benefit from this law?

DC: Well we already have our land posted. Its reserved land. Under the Indian Act you're not allowed to trespass on First Nations property.

AMT: And so what action can you take? Do you call the RCMP if there's a trespasser?

DC: Oh yeah, definitely.

AMT: Now rural crime is an issue in Saskatchewan statistically, what do you think the solution is?

DC: Well I think as an attitudinal one, when you talk about rural crime it just sort of triggers people's to think of the First Nations people. It's just the way it is. You know rural crime is kind of a dog whistle for Indigenous people and they've got to get over that. We have to start talking about you know everybody has land and everybody has a problem with trespassing, but it's not an Indian problem as such.

AMT: And you're saying the assumption is always it's an Indigenous perpetrator.

DC: Yeah. Absolutely.

AMT: And so when we heard the story of Angela Bishop earlier, how familiar is that story? Have you heard things from other people?

DC: It's fairly familiar because I've heard from my own reserves that people will not take side roads anymore, they'll take the main highways. They just, you just don't there's a lot of fear out there of what's going to happen when you get on a rural road and some trigger happy farmer comes along. So yeah it's very real.

AMT: So what's the, how do you get around this, like how do you move forward?

DC: Well I think there has to be like I said earlier, there has to be an attitudinal change. People have got to understand that First Nations people are here to stay, in fact with a growing segment in rural Saskatchewan, farmers are selling out like crazy and retiring. So we're going to be a majority in rural Saskatchewan in not too long. So people have got to start accepting that and working together. There's a lot of things happening that are good and people are working together. You just can't say that every reserve is a problem because many reserves have very good relations with the people off the reserve. Every reserve has a certain different personality and that's affected that. So there's a lot of good that could come out of this. People just have to get together and start to talk to each other.

AMT: OK well, Doug Cuthand, thank you for your thoughts on this.

DC: You're welcome.

AMT: That's Doug Cuthand. He's a columnist with The Saskatoon StarPhoenix. He joined us from Saskatoon. Let us know what you think, as you listen. You can tweet us @TheCurrentCBC. Find us on Facebook. Go to our website cbc.ca/thecurrent. That's our program for today. Stay with Radio One for Q. Rick Mercer is on the show to talk about his new book, The Final Report. Join me tomorrow for a deep dive into the U.S. mid-term election results. We will hear from grassroots organizers and big picture strategists about how today's all important US vote plays out. And since voter turnout in the U.S. is key to what happens at the polls for either party, we're going to leave you with a special US get out the vote message. Cast members of the hit musical, Hamilton, wrote a song and recorded it, gathered around a piano backstage, before last Saturday night's performance on Broadway. This is what it sounds like. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti. Thanks for listening to The Current.

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[Song performed by the cast of "Hamilton"]

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Nov. 6, 2018 episode transcript

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