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The AIH Transcript for July 26, 2018

Hosts: Laura Lynch and Marcia Young

Prologue

LAURA LYNCH: Hello, I'm Laura Lynch.

MARCIA YOUNG: Good evening, I'm Marcia Young. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

MY: Tonight…

LL: It's the cricketer, but was it crooked? Sportsman Imran Khan claims victory in Pakistan's election saying it was the country's fairest vote ever. But other parties say widespread vote rigging means it wasn't even fair to middling.

MY: The bitterest pill. Doctors thought it would improve blood flow through the placenta but now a Dutch clinical trial on pregnant women using Viagra has been stopped after 11 babies died.

LL: Irreconcilable irreconcilabilities. A British woman says her 40 year marriage is a loveless nightmare. But the U.K. Supreme Court says even if it's tearing her apart, she and her husband must stay together.

MY: Here's the kicker, and there he goes. After a stellar career in Vancouver, Canadian Alphonso Davies signs a record-setting deal to play soccer for Bayern Munich, which is impressive for anyone — but especially as 17-year-old.

LL: Sticking it to the man by claiming not to be one. He's not trans, but an Alberta man still change the gender on his government I.D. from male to female just so he could pay less for car insurance

MY: And pack animal of lies. An Egyptian zookeeper swears the animal in a Cairo Park is a zebra even though its big ears, short mane and obviously painted on smeared stripes reveal it's actually a donkey. As It Happens: The Thursday Edition: Radio that figures that poor donkey is on a streak-losing streak.

[Music: Theme]

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Part 1: Pakistan Election, Viagra Study, Gender Insurance

Pakistan Election

Guest: Shahzeb Jillani

MY: Imran Khan says that Pakistan's voters have given him a mandate. But the former cricket captain’s path to the Prime Ministership still isn't clear. As we go to air they're still counting the votes in yesterday's national election. And while Mr. Khan's party appears to have won the most seats they're well short of the outright majority. Then there are the accusations of vote rigging and manipulation by the army. Shahzeb Jillani is a freelance journalist. We reached him in Karachi.

LL: Mr. Jilliani, what is the atmosphere in Pakistan tonight as people wait to find out what this election is going to mean?

SHAZEB JILLANI: Well, it's now pretty clear that Imran Khan and his party will have the biggest majority in the Parliament. It will not be enough for them to form a government on their own. In all likelihood they will seek coalition partners. But I think it's now pretty clear that he will be the next prime minister.

LL: And so are people celebrating? Is there anxiety? How is it there?

SJ: The nation is divided as you can imagine. Imran Khan has polarized the country. His supporters are obviously jubilant, especially young people, women, urban middle class people who normally do not take part in politics. But Imran Khan managed to politicize them, inspire them over the years. Going from a leader nobody took seriously to now becoming the prime minister. But equally, in large parts of the country people are worried because they think that he's inexperienced. They believe that he has been brought to power by the military and that cannot be good. They don't believe that he will fight for parliamentary supremacy and constitution in Pakistan. So there are fears that he might end up strengthening the military.

LL: I am interested in what you're saying about where he's come from because I covered a previous Pakistani election some years ago and I had to interview him when he was in hiding because Pervez Musharraf was in charge and wanted him arrested. He's come from that to this. How did that happen?

SJ: Well, that's true. I mean, Imran Khan was seen as the real choice for the silent majority — people who are fed up with traditional politics. So Imran Khan was — because you remember he was a cricket captain in the 1990s and then he set up a cancer hospital in his mother's name. So he had this charity work to his credit, international sports star to his credit. And when he dabbled in politics people laughed, they said politics is an entirely different ballgame, he's not going to make it. And for many years he struggled. In the 2013 elections he did contest. He got a number of votes in the north western province, he formed a government there, but he did not get enough popular vote to win seats in the Parliament. And in the last five years we saw him transform into two one of those politicians who will cut deals, who will make compromises, who will go to any lengths to go to power. This year he was helped allegedly by the army. So a lot of people who were with Nawaz Sharif ditched him. And when many of his parliamentarians ditched Nawaz Sharif that's when Imran Khan became a much more potent force.

LL: What evidence is there that Mr. Khan was supported by the military?

SJ: Its a series of events over the last one year, many of these people who left their parent party didn't offer strong convincing case why they were ditching a government they've been part of all bend over four-and-a-half years. And these people have a reputation of switching loyalties when they feel somebody else will be brought in. So there is plenty of circumstantial evidence. I can tell you, you know, I was covering this campaign, I went to Balochistan province near the Iranian border. I traveled in Punjab and it was it was really astonishing. When I was talking to candidates and politicians who are not supporting Imran Khan there was invariably mention of the local ISI official, ISI being the Pakistani Intelligence Agency. So it seemed to me that intelligence agencies have played some role somewhere in elections. And it reinforced this perception that the way was being paved for Imran Khan to come to power.

LL: Now we know the military has long had a role in ruling Pakistan, either ruling itself or having influence on the politics there. If Imran Khan needed the military support to win what might that mean for the kind of prime minister he'll be?

SJ: There have to be realistic expectations of what he wants to do and what he will be able to do. So for example, one of the crucial things that Pakistan has suffered from is the civil military imbalance. As you say, it's either direct military rule or there are times the military goes in the background but controls crucial areas of policy, usually there is a civilian facade. I mean, mind you for your listeners, Pakistan is now 71 years old and not a single prime minister has been allowed to complete their tenure. So they are kicked out on charges of corruption or bad governance or whatnot. And the same thing happened with the Nawaz Sharif. So Imran Khan is expected to be a more compliant Prime Minister because he knows very well that he needed the support of state institutions to come to power, he will try not to take them on on foreign policy matters. The military has its own interest in keeping Pakistan's relations hostile with India and Afghanistan. It provides justification for a strong army, for weapons, for spending on tanks and guns. So he will follow their lead when it comes to national security and foreign policy. They will probably give him room when it comes to governance and education and health to gain more popularity. But my feeling is, sooner or later there will be conflict, it will be nasty because he’s been brought to power with a lot of hope by his supporters and as he starts to kind of make compromises and change is not happening it will turn out badly. That’s just my feeling looking at Pakistan's history and how prime ministers have been treated in the past.

LL: How soon do you think that conflict will come?

SJ: Optimistic view is that it'll take a couple of years. I think it'll happen sooner. And that's partly because Imran Khan has shown inflexibility in creating political consensus when he wants to do something. So that's not his strength. And when you want to be a sole operator you will very quickly alienate yourselves in the Parliament, nobody sticks up for you because you believe that you are holier than thou, you believe everybody else is corrupt except yourself. And that is not a good way of dealing with a strong military if you want to create political space for yourself to drive change, to drive reform.

LL: Very interesting Mr. Jillani, thank you very much.

SJ: Thank you. Bye bye.

MY: Shahzeb Jillani is a freelance journalist. We reached him in Karachi, Pakistan.

[Music: Jazz]

Viagra Study

Guest: Lana Huf-Germain

MY: It was thought to be potentially life-saving — instead the results were heartbreaking. A medical trial in the Netherlands on pregnant women experiencing complications has been halted. The women were given a drug called Sildenafil, a generic version of Viagra. Researchers say 11 Dutch babies involved in the study have died from lung conditions. A similar trial had been taking place in Canada at the University of British Columbia. UBC has since stopped its study and said 21 Canadians had been involved. In a statement Head researcher Dr. Ken Lim said “We're not aware of an increase in adverse outcomes.” He added that he and other researchers could not take any chances with the health of mothers and their infants. Lana Huf-Germain was one of the 183 women who took part in the drug trial in the Netherlands. Luckily for her, she was a member of the group given a placebo. We reached her in Amsterdam.

LL: Ms. Huf-Germain, take us back to that moment when you got the news that the trial you had taken part in had been stopped?

LANA HUF-GERMAIN: Well, I got the call on a Sunday afternoon. So my first thought when they said “Hey, there’s a gynecologist from the hospital in Amsterdam,” my first thought was this is a prank call because who would call you on Sunday afternoon. And then their second sentence was ‘We don't want you to hear this through the media, but from us personally.’ So literally every flag went red in my head. And then they basically told me ‘First of all, you've had the placebo,’ and then they told me what had happened and that they had the results of they’re calling everyone and it was going to break out in the media because they want to stop everyone who is on either the test or getting the Viagra themselves to stop immediately.

LL: What kind of an impact do you have on you to hear about 11 babies had died because of problems with the trial?

LHG: It was shocking, of course, but it didn't really sink in. My husband was completely freaked out and once I started telling people and hearing their reactions I was like ‘Oh, okay this is really bad,’ like, it really took me a while to sink in probably because A: I had a feeling I was already on the placebo, so that kind of helped, and the fact that my child was alive and well. But when you then start to realize and hear the stories in the news about people that have lost their child or people that are pregnant and took the medication and they haven't delivered their baby yet, then they'd already sort of started to resonate like ‘Oh this is a pretty damn big deal.’

LL: Why did you decide to take part in the trial in the first place?

LHG: Well, I didn't really have a choice. It was kind of a matter of life and death when it came to my unborn child because she was severely underweight during the 20 week scan. So we immediately had to go to the hospital and they said ‘Well, basically you have up to 24 weeks and then she has to a certain amount or else we're not going to do anything. You're just going to have to deliver a dead baby. But we also have this trial going on and that might help,’ and then they explain how it works and it sounded very plausible — and it still does.

LL: Tell us what was it, what did they say the drug would do?

LHG: What happened is my placenta didn't have enough flow, so there wasn't enough nutrients and stuff going through it to the baby. And what Viagra does, it sort of opens up the veins and stimulates the flow. So in theory it sounds perfect and they didn't tell us, or as far as I know, they didn't tell us that there were any risks for the baby. So at that point you're like ‘Yes, let's do this,’ because we don't really have a choice at this point.

LL: They didn't tell you about danger to the baby, did they tell you about any side effects at all?

LHG: Yes, absolutely, the side effects would be because they checked every day, like, you would have to fill out a form every time you took the pill three times a day you would have to check what you felt. And they said what might occur is headaches, red cheeks, dizziness and, you know, higher sex drive. So they definitely kept a very close eye on that if anything would occur you had to tell them immediately and that's what they said that would happen but nothing else. But in fairness, they also didn't know, as far as I know, that anything that could have happened to the child.

LHG: Now this drug, which most people known as Viagra, was used to see if it could treat the condition called Early Intrauterine Growth Restriction, where the baby doesn't grow well inside the womb. Now researchers at the University of British Columbia have said in the past that there aren't many treatments to treat the condition so it has the potential to do a lot of good. Do you think doctors taking part in the research could have tested it further before they started giving it to pregnant women?

LHG: Well, they said from what I read in the media they gave it to rats and that seemed to work. And there are some people who were on the medication and they did have a healthy baby. So I don't think anyone really knew, and like you said, you don't really have a lot of options.

LL: Do you think though, that the doctors perhaps should face repercussions for this?

LHG: No, absolutely not — because if it would have worked they would have been heroes. You know, we would have had something that would change medical history for fetuses that don't grow well, now we have to look for something else. So they tried and thank God that Holland was the country that tested it vigorously and immediately came to a result that it is not working, everybody needs to stop worldwide.

LL: But you also mentioned earlier that while that's your point of view, your husband feels very differently.

LHG: Yeah. For him it was more like ‘I can't imagine what if our daughter, after all we've been through, would have died because of that.’ And because my child was born so prematurely we actually have been doing a lot of tests and people keep asking us for studies because she's doing so extremely well compared to the situation we were in. He was like ‘Okay, we're not doing any tests ever again anymore.’ So he sort of stopped everything.

LL: As you may know there are 21 women involved in a Canadian trial at the University of British Columbia. I’m wondering what you would say to them right now knowing what they're facing?

LHG: I think they need to have a psychologist on board to help them get through this. I can't even imagine what they have to go through. And you can only say try to relax and hope for the best but there's nothing you can say and I feel so bad because that's sort of the emotion that a lot of people have is that if you have lost your child because you took the medication, you were the one who chose it. AKA you're responsible, to say bluntly, for killing your child. And I think that's why a lot of people are up in arms about the results of this trial. So we just need to help them get through it and hopefully all their children will be alive and well and if they don't they need to get some serious help to get through it and their families.

LL: Ms. Huf-Germain, I wish you and your family very well going forward. Thank you.

LHG: Thank you so much.

LL: Bye, bye.

MY: That was Lana Huf-Germain, one of the many women who took part in a medical trial that gave generic Viagra to pregnant women experiencing complications. We reached her in Amsterdam. If you want to read more about this story head to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Piano and Strings]

Gender Insurance

Guest: Jeffrey Kahane

MY: The report from our colleagues in Calgary just calls the young man David. Like many young male drivers who've had an accident and maybe a couple of tickets, David's insurance costs were pretty high. As he was told a woman would pay something like 25 per cent less. So David made a change — he changed his gender — not his actual gender. David says that he is and was a man, what he changed was the gender identification on his government I.D. David went through the updated Alberta process, complete with a visit to a doctor and the signing of various forms all to change the indicator for male on his driver's license and birth certificate to female. Then he went and got himself some cheaper insurance. Here's David telling CBC Calgary what it was like when that new I.D. finally arrived.

SOUNDCLIP

DAVID: I felt like I beat the system. I felt like I won — I felt home free basically. I just keep thinking to myself it's just from an M to an F on my documents, that's all it is. It doesn't change me, it doesn’t change me at all. It's just on my legal documents.

MY: But is David, as he puts it, home free? We thought we'd ask a lawyer. We reached Jeffrey Kahane at his office in Calgary.

LL: Mr. Kahane, is it as simple as David seems to think it is, or might he have some problems because of what he's done?

JEFFREY KAHANE: Well, he may very well, and the question becomes who do those problems come from? It would seem that, you know, he may have caused a fraud on the doctor, on the government and the insurance company may see it as a fraud as well or as a material misstatement on his application. So what's important is to look at is what the actual policy application asked him in terms of the information he was giving, as well as what documents he had to give her information he had to get with respect to the doctor and the government.

LL: But if the law allows people to identify their own gender legally, what is wrong with the man telling the government he's a woman?

JK: In this case, I mean, it would appear that he is not identifying as a woman, he is just wanting to be called a woman for insurance purposes. I've never spoken with him but my understanding is that as his own words in terms of his identification.

LL: So walk me through that. What's the problem with that?

JK: If someone is identifying as being female then them as a person is being identified as being female versus someone who is just saying ‘I want to be female for the purposes of paperwork, for the sole purpose of manipulating insurance company premiums.’

LL: So legally what could that mean when you talk about fraud?

JK: It could mean all kinds of different things. It could be in terms of, again it is all going depend on the statements that he gave, how he gave them and what he signed or if he swore an affidavit — worst case scenario with the insurance company is they discover this and they probably wouldn't discover till after an accident and either void his policy at an issue from the beginning or try to void it at that point in terms of a person that he was in an action with or caused an accident that person would hopefully be made whole by the insurance company. There is a fund in Alberta that covers people who are under or are not insured.

LL: But you're saying there's potential for him having absolutely no insurance, even though he thinks he's bought it the insurance company will say wait a second you defrauded us so you're not getting any insurance coverage from us.

JK: And here's the really interesting thing, this situation is the purest and most exact definition of an emerging area of law because we don't have case law for this, we don't have the courts having made decisions in the past we can go back. We can go through and say that the Supreme Court has said specifically that insurance companies have the right to make differentiations in premiums based on gender because the gender is associated with a specific risk that is identifiable for young women and young men who are usually under 25. The irony is, before interview I was speaking with my insurance broker, those rates are changing, the differential is getting smaller and the risks are becoming more so for young women to be increasing in accidents and causing damage, if not more so in some cases.

LL: Now because he says he's simply taking advantage of a loophole and he seems to think he's being treated unfairly. So you say the rates are changing, does the law say that the insurance companies are allowed to discriminate?

JK: Well, the Supreme Court of Canada, Zurich Insurance and the Ontario Human Rights Commission in that case. We went to Supreme Court of Canada and the Supreme Court of Canada recognized insurance rates can change if their statistics and a higher risk associated with them causing a problem. And, you know, again I've never spoken with those individual, but my understanding is that he was in an accident already, had ticket or tickets in the past. So is the purest definition of an age group and gender who is at higher risk for requiring a higher insurance premium.

LL: Can we go through the other phases of this, if you will? There's the point where he tells his doctor in order to get the note and then the part where he represents the government to get the license that he's a woman. Is there criminal fraud potentially involved in this?

JK: You know, I'm not a criminal lawyer so it's hard for me to say. I think, you know, the doctor asks ‘What are your associations?’ I think he's indicated that he doesn't associate with being a different gender. He just wants the paperwork. So as a general rule if someone is doing something try and get out of something or get into something that they otherwise couldn't do and manipulate the system in order to do that, it may be considered you know finding a loophole. However, the insurance companies don't like when people find loopholes. And what would be interesting from a legal perspective is if the insurance companies discovers this then goes and sues the individual for the courts actually give an opinion. Now, this stuff takes years to develop because it takes years to get in front of courts and for the courts to give decisions, written decisions, and then for them to get appealed and all that.

LL: This is all happening as government and the law comes to terms with gender diversity, these things that weren't officially recognized until now. How do you think a story like this is going to go over with lawmakers and people whose rights these laws are supposed to recognize?

JK: Well, what he says, and I'm just going from his interview with the CBC, is that he doesn't intend to criticize or ridicule transgender or anyone he's just doing it for his own benefit. You know, I can't see that going over well, that's not really a legal issue. He's leveraging these rights that people have worked really hard to win over from the government and from corporations and industry, and is in essence making a mockery of it just for cheaper insurance.

LL: Mr. Kahane, thank you.

JK: No problem.

LL: Bye, bye.

MY: Jeffrey Kahane is an insurance lawyer in Calgary. And that is where we reached him.

[Music: Guitar Strums]

Donkey Zebra

MY: It's one of life's most embarrassing moments. You're just hanging out in your enclosure and you're totally confident that you're pulling off your zebra disguise. But then you notice some guy looking at you funny and you look at your reflection in a bowl of water and oh no, your painted on stripes are smeared. I'd like to reassure the donkey at Cairo, Egypt's new International Gardens Park that we've all been there — not literally but figuratively. The important thing is that you don't blame yourself because it's totally not your fault, it's the fault of the zookeeper who painted on your zebra stripes, and who continues to insist that you are actually a zebra not a donkey with smeared makeup. Mahmoud Sarhani begs to differ. Recently, while visiting the park, he visited the zebras or what turned out to be the one actual zebra and a creature with ears bigger than a zebras and a smaller mane than a zebras — and of course, the blurry, black sometimes fading to gray stripes, which are smudged like mascara after a vigorous eye rub in the summer time. Veterinarians have since confirmed Mr. Sarhani’s opinion that that zebra is a donkey. Still, as I said, the park zookeeper maintains that the donkey is a zebra. Unfortunately, the fake stripes contradict him because this is one of those rare times when a story is totally black and white because of the shades of grey.

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Part 2: U.K. Divorce, Alphonso Davies

U.K. Divorce

Guest: Nigel Shepherd

MY: Her lawyer has described her marriage of four decades as “loveless and unhappy.” But this week, the U.K.’s Supreme Court denied Tini Owens' request for a divorce and told her her lovelessness and unhappiness aren't enough. Mr. and Mrs. Owens’ case has been going through the courts for years and it has some lawyers, like Nigel Shepherd, questioning the country's divorce laws and calling for change. Mr. Shepherd is the head of family law at U.K. firm Mills & Reeve. We reached him in Manchester, England.

LL: Mr. Shepherd, when you learned Tini Owens had lost her case, how did you feel for her?

NIGEL SHEPHERD: I felt really upset and disappointed for her. This was the final court that she could appeal to, and sadly the judges, the Supreme Court justices felt that although they would have liked to have done so, with a heavy heart they felt they couldn't overturn the previous decisions.

LL: The judges made the ruling reluctantly, apparently. What were they feeling reluctant about?

NS: They were reluctant that they couldn't find a way to interpret the current law in a way that would have given them Tini Owens in her divorce. Quite clearly, the judges, all the appeal judges went through the court of appeal, three judges there and it went to five Supreme Court justices. I think everybody involved in the case has been struck by the fact that Mrs. Owens is having to suffer. I think it's very difficult to hear that kind of case without feeling real empathy with her with her dilemma.

LL: And the judges feel trapped by him by both the original ruling, I guess, and the State of the line in the U.K.?

NS: Yeah, they've made it clear that the interpretation that we were asking for, which was a complete switch around for the way that you look at behaviour divorces, to make it almost entirely subjective about the impact on the person asking for the divorce rather than an objective assessment of the behaviour itself. They felt that that was an interpretation that was just going too far because the courts can interpret the law, they can't change the legislation that's behind it. And what’s needed here — and the judges have made it quite clear — what’s needed here is Parliament to step in and actually reform the current law.

LL: For our listeners who perhaps haven't been following the case, what were Tini Owens’ reasons for wanting a divorce?

NS: She said the marriage had broken down, but it's not enough to say that the marriage has broken down, you have to establish that by proving one or more of sub-grounds, if you like. And the ground that she went on was behaviour, and the judge heard the evidence just didn't think that her 27 allegations of what she said Mr. Owens had done, didn't think that was enough for him to conclude that she couldn't reasonably be expected to carry on living with him, which is actually the legal test in our jurisdiction.

LL: Can you give me some sense of what was on that list?

NS: There were a number of things. One example, they were at an airport abroad, they were coming back from holiday, he wanted her to buy a gift for their housekeeper — this is obviously a well-off family, to go to the Supreme Court and pay for it you have to have some money — and she went off and she couldn't find the gift that he had suggested she buy. So he berated her, quite publicly, in the airport.

LL: I don’t want to appear insensitive, but if it that example was a one-off, then perhaps people could just put it down to a couple having a disagreement. Are there repeated instances of this on the list?

NS: It was certainly not a one-off — that was just one of 27 examples. Another one was that he asked her to pick up cardboard from their lawn. There was a whole series of things, some of which were more, you know, petty than others, but part of this case is about the cumulative effect of a pattern of behaviour over quite a long period of time. I mean, her evidence was that she'd been putting up with this kind of stuff for an awful long time. Now it's fair to say that he denied this, he said this was part of the rough and tumble of a 40 year marriage. The judge said ‘Maybe he's a little old school,’ was what the first judge said and ‘Maybe she's a little oversensitive.’ And that was why he felt that she hadn't got over that threshold that we have under our current behaviour divorce petition law.

LL: But there was no allegation of sexual or physical abuse and no allegation of infidelity or adultery?

NS: She had actually had an affair. I mean, the marriage had been over for quite a long time in her view, but they carried on living together for a period of time after he found out about that. So that wasn't something he could rely on as part of our law. I think it's probably the same in Canada actually, if adultery is committed but you kind of forgive it by living together once you know about it after a certain period of time — six months it is here — then you can't rely on it. What we would like to see, what I would like to see personally, what the family justice organization that I've recently chaired, which is called Resolution, wants to see is a system which removes all of that fault in the sense of taking it out of the process. And you have a simple notification system, one or both of you says at the beginning of the period, ‘I think the marriage has broken down.’ If after a period of time, whether that’s six months or nine months, we suggest six months, one or both feel the same way then you get your divorce. No adultery, no behaviour allegations required.

LL: What was her reaction to the ruling?

NS: I haven't seen it. I saw her at the hearing which was in May, but I'm sure she'll have been very disappointed. I suspect it may not have come as too much of a surprise because she was arguing for quite a radical reinterpretation, so I'm sure her legal team will have prepared her for the bad news, but nevertheless, I'm sure she's terribly disappointed and upset.

LL: Just curious to know, do you know her personally?

NS: I don't know. I met her at the hearing in May and, you know, she was very dignified. I think it's fair to say that to take it up to the Supreme Court, I think she's doing it as much for those that follow her as herself personally. I think that she says I don't want other women to have to put up with what I've had to put up with. And if my case highlights the calls for reform and acts as a catalyst then she will feel that even though she may not have been personally successful, she has achieved some good out of it.

LL: Mr. Shepherd, thank you for your time.

NS: It's a pleasure, thank you.

LL: Bye, bye.

MY: Nigel Shepherd is a family law specialist in the U.K. We reached him in Manchester. According to the BBC, Mr. Owens’ lawyers have said that their client is being quote “unfairly criticized for attempting to save his marriage,” unquote. And as for Ms. Owens, she likely won't be able to divorce until 2020 when the couple have been living apart for at least five years.

[Music: Ballet]

Dimitris Azemopoulos Greek Fires

MY: The death toll in Greece from the several horrifying wildfires has reached 83 people. Dozens are still missing. And now the Greek government says it has serious indications that one of those fires was started deliberately. As we heard on the program earlier this week, one of the worst hit areas was the coastal village of Mati. Residents tried to run away, drive away — and even swim away from the flames — but scores were killed. This week has been difficult for the Greek ambassador to Canada. Dimitris Azemopoulos’ family home is in Mati — it's still standing, but today he told Ottawa Morning host Robyn Bresnahan he hasn't slept in four days. Here's part of their conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

DIMITIRS AZEMOPOULOS: It's something that goes beyond my worst nightmares. We used to take our cars and drive there during the weekends, you know, to be together with our friends, to bike among the pine trees, to swim into the clean waters of Mati and Rufina. These are family villages and I know almost all of the residents and all of the people who live there because they lived there and for years. These are not flashy, flashy places.

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: Are they OK?

DA: I wouldn't like to, you know, to speak about this right now because these are people who have struggled for their lives. They hoped that this summer would be much, much better in their life because of the crises we are leaving behind, the financial crisis that struck my country for eight years. And now that we made it and then there was this thing that occurred in our lives, these lava-strong fires because we know these temperatures were reaching 100 degrees Celsius. The smoke was so heavy and then people tried to run and now that I see and I realize what these people tried to do is exactly what I would have tried to do. I mean, you would go nearby, you would run to go near by the sea and save yourself. And this is what they tried to do.

RB: But you can imagine there would be elderly people who…

DA: Handicapped people, young people, babies, families — I have the goosebumps now that I'm telling you. There were women who did not abandon their husbands who were handicapped so they preferred to lose their lives because they — oh, my God — because they did not want to leave their husband in a wheelchair dying. And this is dreadful, you know, it can happene everywhere, but you can never, never imagine that this would knock at your door unless it does.

MY: Dimitris Azemopoulos is the Greek ambassador to Canada. He was speaking to Robyn Bresnahan host of Ottawa Morning.

[Music: Guitar Strums]

Alphonso Davies

Guest: Alphonso Davies

MY: When Alfonso Davies starts playing Major League Soccer in Munich this fall, he'll have some homework to finish on the sidelines. Alphonso still hasn't graduated from high school, but the 17-year-old winger for the Vancouver Whitecaps is set to play for one of the world's most elite soccer clubs in a few months. His trade to Bayern Munich is being valued at $22 million U.S. — the highest fee ever paid for a major league soccer player. And Alphonso still can't believe it. Just a few years ago he was watching Bayern Munich play on TV and dreamed he might one day play at that level. Now he's easily Canada's most famous soccer player. We reached Alphonso Davies in Vancouver.

LL: So Alphonso, congratulations.

ALPHONSO DAVIES: Thank you.

LL: Now you're going off to Munich in the fall. What's the first thing you're going to do when you get to Munich?

AD: Try schnitzel.

[LAUGHTER]

LL: You ever had that before?

AD: No, but apparently it’s one of the best foods there, so I’m going to try that.

LL: So I've heard. This is a really big change for you, I'm wondering how you're feeling about leaving Vancouver and starting fresh, not only in a new city, but a new country?

AD: Yeah, I'm happy for the opportunity. It’s going to be different, different language, different culture, different environment — but I'm looking forward to it.

LL: Do you speak German?

AD: No. Some of the players are trying to teach me.

LL: What have you got so far?

AD: Nothing.

[LAUGHTER]

LL: I'm wondering what all of this means to your parents? For example, what did your mother say to you when you told her that you were off to Germany?

AD: She couldn't believe it. And she gave me mother’s vice, be safe, be careful. I’m like ‘Mom, I’m not leaving yet,’ She just said ‘OK, just be a good boy.’

LL: Do you ever reflect on the fact that you were born in a refugee camp in Ghana in 2000 after your parents left war torn Liberia, and you've gone from there to this and think ‘Oh, my God, how did they get this far?’

AD: Yeah, I do. The video that I think things VICE made, the Whitecaps made the documentary, watching that back and also listening to stories for my parents, it's amazing coming this far and just got to keep working, keep striving.

LL: What gives you that strong drive to keep working and striving to get better?

AD: I think looking back on my past and where I came from. You know, coming from a country like Ghana and then coming to a country like Canada and getting all these opportunities, it is an amazing feeling. That's why I keep working so hard — and also for my pants as well.

LL: You're moving into a much more competitive environment when you're talking about playing in Europe and with those clubs. I'm wondering how much room you think you have to improve as a player?

AD: I have until the end of the year, so I think I can develop my skills a little bit more here and then go there and then learn more and more each day we are training or each match we play.

LL: We're going to we're going to have the World Cup in Canada when you're 25 years old. Are you looking forward to that?

AD: Yeah I am looking forward to it. I mean, the last time Canada was in the World Cup was a while ago and they're now coming to North America it’s exciting for everyone and I know for sure that other countries will enjoy it here and also being able to play in front of my hometown and in front of our country as well.

LL: Are you going to be playing for Team Canada in 2026?

AD: Yes, I will be, I think before 2026 we will try to make it to 2022 World Cup. I think that's the goal right now for Canadian fans and the players — and then think about the 2026 one.

LL: Now I know Kei Kamara, who is one of your teammates on the Whitecaps team has become a mentor to you, almost like an older brother. How has he helped you over the past few years?

AD: Kei is a fun guy, he is exciting to be around. He makes everything fun, you know. He treats me like a little brother.

LL: He's a refugee from Sierra Leone. Have you bonded because of that, at least partly?

AD: Yes, we have bonded because of that, we talked about it. He told me his story, I told him mine — what I can remember.

LL: Has he given you any advice now that you've got the news that you're going to Munich?

AD: He just said ‘Go out there and play your game, don't get down he's out too much. You know, always have a smile on your face. You go in there to play soccer, you’re not going there do something else.’

LL: I hear you're pretty good at foosball. Do they play that in Germany?

AD: I think so. I don’t even know, but yeah, I'm pretty good.

LL: And also, not to mention your dance moves, you can show those off too. I saw that in the documentary, you’re pretty good at dancing.

AD: Yeah, I dabble.

LL: What are you gonna miss most about Vancouver?

AD: I'm just gonna miss the city and the people around me, my teammates, coaches, the stadium and the fans as well including the amazing city.

LL: You're still in high school aren't you?

AD: Yes.

LL: Are you going to graduate before you leave for Germany?

AD: We are going to try to if I start cramming in all my subjects in those six months.

LL: I bet your mom wants you to finish.

AD: Yeah, she does.

LL: Can I ask you just finally what your message is to fans in Vancouver who have just so loved watching you play for the Whitecaps?

AD: I want to say thank you to all the fans. Me stepping on the field as a 15-year-old they've all been supportive of me and then growing now into a 17-year-old guy, the fans have always welcomed me. Vancouver is a great city and I'm going to miss it a lot when I leave.

LL: Alphonso, good luck. We all hope you do well on the world stage.

AD: Thank you.

LL: Bye bye.

MY: 17-year-old Alfonso Davies is a winger for the Vancouver Whitecaps who was just traded to Bayern Munich one of the world's most elite soccer clubs. We reached him in Vancouver.

[Music: Upbeat Piano & Guitar]

Seth Rogan Vancouver Transit

MY: Among the common complaints public transit users have about other passengers, smelly food, loud private conversations, and annoying laughs. Nevertheless, today Vancouver transit revealed that it had enlisted a guy with maybe the most distinctive laugh Canada has ever produced to voice its service announcements — actor and comedian Seth Rogen.

SOUNDCLIP

SETH ROGAN: Any opportunity to enrich the lives of the Canadian people is an opportunity I will take. I'm from Vancouver, British Columbia, I’m very proud to be from Vancouver and I grew up taking public transit my whole life and I still use public transit when I'm in the city. “Hey Vancouver, it’s Seth. Here's a tip to make your transit ride even more awesome. I know your bag is probably very nice and you care deeply for free but that doesn't mean it needs its own seat.” I do take the Canada line all the time, I go to Richmond Night Market a lot and parking there is incredibly difficult and I live downtown, so there's a lot of stops nearby. When the opportunity came up to be a voice on public transportation I was thrilled. I am honestly always looking for ways to participate in Canadian culture and to put the spotlight on Canada. I mentioned Canada a lot in our movies and our work, I play Canadian characters often. “Those are very nice sneakers but kind of a horror show on the sole. So get those feet off the seat. My mom might be sitting there one day.” Giving them some interesting information as to where they're going could be additive in people's lives, which is nice.

MY: You may recall that Vancouver transit had to scrap announcements previously voiced by actor Morgan Freeman after sexual misconduct allegations against him. Hometown hero Seth Rogen was so keen to step in he wrote his own announcements and recorded them for free. They'll be in use as of next week.

[Music: Circus]

Sniper Gold

MY: At first it appears you've stumbled on a bizarre, possibly tragic scene — a person in a wet suit, motionless, face down in a river until they sit up sputtering and yell in ‘Gold.’ You've just seen and heard a sniper. That is someone who is sniping, which is when you stick a snorkel in your face and stick your face in a river and you look for gold nuggets that might be stuck in crevices or behind boulders. If sniping and rivers sounds like tilting at windmills to you then gather round and hear the tale of a Scottish guy and his snipe nugget. This gentleman has just come forward anonymously to reveal that two years ago he was sniping in a secret location in Scotland. He says ‘I was following a crack in the bedrock,’ he said and found two grams in fine gold. That's nothing, two grams is probably worth about 50 bucks depending on its purity. But the unnamed gentleman followed the unexplored crack in the undisclosed location and found what's now called the Douglas nugget — an 85.7 gram nugget stuck in a pocket in the river — the largest gold nugget ever discovered in British waters. The man said quote “I took off my glove and picked it up, jumped up out of the water and screamed ‘Bingo’ to my friend” unquote. Well it might be bingo. The thing is estimated to be worth over 50,000 pounds, which is more than 85,000 Canadian dollars. But if he sells it, it's possible that Scotland's Crown Estate, which is in charge of public land might show up and say ahem, then take the cash which would really give him something else to snipe about.

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July 26, 2018 episode transcript

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