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The AIH Transcript for May 3, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight…

CO: There goes the neighbour’s hood. Thanks to a tip and some intrepid student journalists, a major mysterious neo-Nazi organizer may have been unmasked and he may live in Montreal.

JD: No taxation cause of his presentations. A University of British Columbia professor is getting complaints from outside the school for advocating property tax issues. But Tom Davidoff won't follow the advice to quote “keep his mouth shut.”

CO: Banishing point. The NDP boots Saskatchewan MP Erin Weir out of caucus after a harassment investigation. But Mr. Weir tells us that's a huge overreaction on the party's part.

JD: And they're blocking a stairway to havens. British MPs say new rules will reduce money laundering and tax evasion in overseas territories. But politicians in those territories say the rules about offshore companies are offside.

CO: Two-four-six-eight, against whom do they discriminate? A former NFL cheerleader files a complaint against the New Orleans Saints saying the team's rules for her were much harsher than they were for the players.

JD: And he doesn't like to toot his own horn. So instead of honking at a driver trying to cut in front of him, Marco Sanchez challenged that driver to a game of rock-paper-scissors — and a video of that encounter is getting a lot of traffic. As It Happens: The Thursday Edition. Radio that appreciates it when a driver gives you a choice of fingers.

[Music: Theme]

Back To Top »

Part 1: Zeiger investigation, Erin Weir, Car Rock-Paper-Scissors

Erin Weir

Guest: Erin Weir

JD: Erin Weir is out of the NDP caucus. The party had been investigating the Saskatchewan MP after multiple people claimed he harrassed them. Today, NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh explained his decision to expel M. Weir.

SOUNDCLIP

JAGMEET SINGH: In regards to the sustained claims of sexual harassment, which the investigator defined as acts of a sexual nature quote, that might reasonably be expected to cause offence end quote, it was found that Mr. Weir failed to read non-verbal cues in social settings and that his behaviour resulted in significant negative impact to the complainants. The report found that when Mr. Weir was told his advances were unwanted he stopped. Based on the investigators findings I considered various corrective resolutions, including conciliation. Such a rehabilitative approach would require Mr. Weir to take full responsibility for his actions. In conversations with Mr. Weir I was led to believe he was prepared to be accountable for his behaviour. However, recent developments demonstrate Mr. Weir is unwilling to take appropriate responsibility for his actions, and therefore any rehabilitative approach is now untenable.

JD: That was NDP federal leader Jagmeet Singh speaking to media today about his decision to expel MP Erin Weir from caucus. The party also objected to Mr. Weir publicly challenging a former staff member who talked about her harrassment allegations in the media. We reached Erin Weir in Regina.

CO: Mr. Weir, how did you find out that you had been expelled from the NDP caucus?

ERIN WEIR: Well, Jagmeet Singh phoned me just before midnight last night and indicated that he was going to expel me from caucus, which I think is a huge overreaction given the process and given the actual findings in the investigators report.

CO: Let's just talk about the investigators report, the third party investigation that found evidence for one claim of harassment and three claims of sexual harassment. Do you remember those incidents?

EW: Well, in the case of the complaints of sexual harassment they were presented to me anonymously, without dates or specific places, but the findings were that on a balance of probabilities I likely sat or stood too close to people at social events and talked to people more than they wished to converse with me. I didn't initially realize I'd done anything wrong but reading a summary of those complaints it became clear that I had sometimes been slow to pick up on social cues. I apologize to anyone who I made feel uncomfortable and I've resolved to be more attentive to nonverbal communication in future.

CO: We just heard the Jagmeet Singh refer to that but these are these are allegations of sexual harassment. Do you recall those moments of maybe not reading the signs properly to be sexual in nature?

EW: Well, I mean, I'm a bachelor so certainly I will approach women that I am interested in. But let's be very clear that the findings were about being too close to people and talking to people more than they wished to talk to me. I don't want to get into a debate about definitions, but I think it's fair to say that those findings are far from what most Canadians would consider to be sexual harassment.

CO: The report, the third party report, also said that they found that when you were told the advances were unwanted you stopped.

EW: Yeah, I think that's an important point and this really was all about having sometimes been slow to pick up on social cues.

CO: But do you hit on people at work? I guess that's the question.

EW: Well, certainly I've never flirted with, or had any type of romantic relationship with, anyone who worked in my office. However, there are thousands of people who work on Parliament Hill and, you know, many of them flirt with each other or date each other or have relationships. And certainly I have dated women who work on Parliament Hill, but not women who work for me or over whom I have any authority.

CO: The other complainant was not of a sexual nature, it said that you had been angry and belligerent towards someone — you were physically intimidating to someone within the NDP. Can you tell us about that?

EW: Well, this complaint arises out of a legitimate debate about a public policy issue at the 2016 Saskatchewan NDP convention. And I do dispute this complaint because although it was a tense conversation I did not display anger or belligerence.

CO: OK so that's the statement you're trying to make but then this employee of the NDP, who I guess is a former person in the office, is that she said that you were angry and belligerent and physically intimidating. I mean, did the disagreement gets that far? Did you bully her?

EW: I didn't. Unfortunately the complaint really came down to her word against mine, which put the investigator in a tough position, and I mean the investigator did believe the complainants side on a balance of probabilities. I mean, I was there and I know what happened and I do dispute that complaint. I do think it sets a really bad precedent for senior staff in the leader's office who often are exercising authority over MPs, to then try to punish those employees with harassment complaint.

CO: You say that you believe the real reason you were expelled from the NDP caucus is not for any of the complaints in this report but for how you responded to them in the media. Can you explain that?

EW: Well, what happened is that this complainant, who is a former senior staff person, brought her complaint to CBC and made it public. As soon as I heard from CBC I declined to comment and I alerted Mr. Singh's office. I asked whether he would respond or I should respond. I didn't hear back. The complaint was public and so I felt compelled to respond to it. And it's certainly unfortunate that this came out through a leak rather than by announcing the resolution to this whole investigation that Mr. Singh and I had agreed to back on April 19th.

CO: This whole thing began, really, with a complaint from someone who didn't have any personal issues with you, but from a Quebec MP, Christine Moore, who said that when you wanted to be the caucus chair she said you should be the last person who gets that position. And she said at that time there are too many women who complained to me that you were harassing them, and as a woman they would not feel comfortable to meet with you alone. That's a pretty strong statement.

EW: Well, it was a strong statement, but it was also a very vague statement. I guess I can say that Christine has requested mediation and I've agreed to that and we've both been in contact with a mediator, so I may learn more about where she's coming from. But really we've had this extensive process of soliciting complaints from hundreds of NDP staff, and the finding really is that I sat or stood too close to people or that I spoke to people more than they wished to talk to me. And I'm sorry to have made people uncomfortable in those ways, but I think you would agree that those findings fall far short of the kind of innuendo that was in that email.

CO: What will you do now?

EW: Well, I’ll continue to represent the people of Regina–Lewvan and as a member of parliament.

CO: All right, we'll be following this story. Mr. Weir, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

EW: Oh, thanks for having me.

JD: We reached MP Erin Weir in Regina. Today the NDP announced that he had been expelled from caucus.

[Music: Ambient Reversed Melody]

Zeiger investigation

Guest: Shannon Carranco

JD: In online neo-Nazi communities he is known as Zeiger. And in short order Zeiger has become one of the most prominent neo-Nazi organizers in North America. And according to a front page article in the Montreal Gazette today, he may live in Montreal. Journalists claim the elusive Zeiger is an IT consultant in his early 30s — and in the Gazette article he is named. The article was written in part by a pair of student journalists at Concordia University who brought the story to the Gazette. One of those student journalists is Shannon Carranco. We reached Ms. Carranco in Montreal.

CO: Shannon, before I get you to connect the dots of your story, just tell us first of all about Zeiger, this man who is connected to the neo-Nazi communities online? Who is he?

ShANNON CARRANCO: So Zeiger is a prominent figure on these neo-Nazi online forums. He's the number two writer at The Daily Stormer, which previously branded itself as the world's number one neo-Nazi website. He's written hundreds of articles and essays and he's been on multiple podcasts that talk about neo-Nazi ideology and spread hate.

CO: For people who maybe think they have heard the Daily Stormer, this one story that they perhaps most connected with is what happened in Charlottesville. What relationship the Daily Stormer have with that?

SC: Exactly. After Charlottesville they posted an article about Heather Heyer, who was the 32-year-old woman who was murdered in Charlottesville protesting against the neo-Nazi march. I believe it was called “Heather Heyer Is A Childless 32-year-old Fat Slut.”

CO: And that she basically deserved to die.

SC: Exactly.

CO: How high up in the ranks of the Daily Stormer is Zeiger?

SC: So Zeiger is said to be the number two writer after Andrew Anglin, who is the site's creator. Zeiger and Andrew revolutionized the way neo-Nazi ideology can be shared on the Internet through writing about it with humour. So they use meme culture and humour in their writing to appeal to young white men.

CO: At the same time its highly anti-Semitic, highly racist material that they’re publishing.

SC: Yes.

CO: When did you first hear the possibility that Zeiger might actually be a man who lives in Montreal?

SC: A few months ago my colleague Jon Milton and I were contacted by an anti-fascist group who said that they had some very interesting information on Zeiger, and that they had connected him to a man named Gabriel Sohier Chaput in Montreal. Through looking at Charlottesville's footage where Zeiger was present, cross-referencing photos that he had posted of himself. They found similar photos of a man named Gabriel Sohier Chaput, who lived in Montreal in Rosemont. Zeiger also posted his home address on one of these private chat forums inviting young white men to come to his house. When you look up the address that Zeiger provided in these private chat rooms, this same address belongs to a company named GSC Gestion, a private IT consulting firm that belongs to a man named Gabriel Sohier Chaput.

CO: But the information that was presented to you, provided to you, was from this anti-fascist group, that has a vested interest in this kind of material. Were you able to test it? Did you find the information they provided to be credible?

SC: We did the same research that they did basically of, you know, cross-reference these photos. He also says in one of these podcasts that he's on that he went to high school in Outremont. And so that led the anti-fascists to look through many yearbooks for a couple different Outremont high schools. They found a photo of Gabriel Sohier Chaput from Paul-Gérin-Lajoie-d'Outremont high school that perfectly matched one of Zeiger's online profiles.

CO: Have you found him? Have you been able to set your eyes on Gabriel Sohier Chaput in Montreal?

SC: So no, we haven’t found him. We've made multiple attempts to contact him through emailing, calling his father. We called his brother three times — the first two times he hung up. We sent a letter by courier to his home and we went to his home twice and rang his doorbell and nobody has answered.

CO: Can I just ask why does it matter? Has he done anything illegal?

SC: To my knowledge Gabriel Sohier Chaput hasn't done anything illegal. He's using the Internet and he's using these chat forums to create a group of neo-Nazis in Montreal. You know, they might be 10-15-20 right now, but those numbers are growing. And if he's not stopped, and if these guys are outed, who knows what could happen. It just takes one of these people who may have some kind of mental illness to pick up a gun and go outside.

CO: And you did all this research, you are a student journalist at Concordia University, you work for The Link. And now that you have put all this together, you did a lot of work on this, you and Jon Milton, this has become a national story. What do you make of that?

SC: I don't think either of us thought it would have this kind of national interest. But we're very happy and we'll go from here.

CO: We also know that when these groups are exposed or investigated by the media that they can react quite strenuously. Are you at all concerned for your own security?

SC: Absolutely. That's been a huge concern for us. We've kind of been living in this story for the past few months since the anti-fascists contacted us. We’re pretty consistently looking over our shoulder when we walk down the street. I personally think it's much better to out these guys and put myself in a place where I may not be as secure as I was yesterday, than let them continue organizing.

CO: Have you contacted the police?

SC: I have not, personally.

CO: Do you think the police should be interested in the actual story and the possibility that there are hate crimes involved?

SC: Yeah, I do.

CO: Do you know if the police are looking into your report?

SC: No, I don't. And I can't really comment on that.

CO: I'm getting that impression.

[CHUCKLES]

CO: All right, Shannon, we'll have to leave it there then. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SC: Have a good one. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

SC: Bye.

JD: Shannon Carranco is a reporter for Concordia University student newspaper The Link. She contributed reporting to today's Montreal Gazette article about a prominent neo-Nazi known online as Zeiger, who is reported to be a Montrealer. For more on this story go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Car Rock-Paper-Scissors

Guest: Marco Sanchez

JD: When you are in traffic and someone wants to pull into your lane ahead of you it is an outrage. So you have a choice you can somehow miraculously find the patience to allow that presumptuous dolt to invade your lane, or do everything you can to make sure that that car stays where it belongs, which is over there. But Marco Sanchez has discovered a third option. Recently Mr. Sanchez was driving in heavy traffic when a driver wanted to pull in in front of him and so he rolled down his window. Not to scream swear words, but to play a game. And his video of that encounter in Houston has been viewed on Facebook more than three million times. We reached Marco Sanchez in League City, Texas.

CO: Marco, what are people saying about your video?

MARCO SANCHEZ: You know, you’ll get negative comments for everything, but mostly it’s nothing but positive comments saying that’s how we should take care of road rage. That is the type of people we need in our lives and so many, many, many comments and many people are saying that they're going to try it now and the traffic.

CO: So you started a trend then?

[LAUGHTER]

MS: I did start a trend trend, at least I hope I did.

CO: OK. Now can you take us back just a few days ago when you were stuck in traffic, how bad was the traffic?

MS: Oh man. It's usually very, very packed during the week. Saturdays it’s a little bit free but it is bumper-to-bumper, door-to-door. People weren't letting anybody cut them off, you know, go in front of them because they were trying to get to the other side of the highway and so people were having these very grumpy faces. You know, Houston tends to be very negative most of the times when there's traffic —when they hear traffic it's nothing but negative comments about traffic.

CO: And they're very aggressive drivers in Houston, aren't they?

MS: Yes. You tend to hear a lot of bad news about road rage and people doing violent stuff to each other.

CO: Let's talk about what happened. So you're stuck in traffic, people are trying to get in. And then you see a guy who's trying to get in your lane. What is it caught your attention about him?

MS: He caught my attention because he's been trying for like 30 minutes or within an hour, trying to cut in, and he ended up getting next to me. And that was my chance, because every time I see someone struggling like that I don't like people struggling. Because whenever I struggle there's people next to me to lift me up or to give me a chance. So that's why I decided to give him a challenge just like the other drivers, but paper-rock-scissors.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: So how did you let him know? How did you tell him that you were challenging him to a game of rock-paper-scissors?

MS: I really don't know. At first I was hoping he wasn't thinking that I was flicking him off because I was having two fingers out the window. But I really don't know. He was awesome, he was a good guy and a good sport.

CO: At first he didn't know what you were doing. He looked kind of confused maybe a bit like, as you say, wondering what's this gesture.

MS: Yes, I really don't know. Till now I still don't know.

CO: But at what point did he clue in, did he catch on that you were trying to get him to play this game?

MS: Well, he rolled his window down because he knew I was trying to tell him something and then his buddy next to him was understanding what I was doing because he was doing the paper-rock-scissors signs oh the rock-paper-scissors, whatever the proper way it is to say it, but then he realized what I was trying to do and he just went along with it.

CO: How many rounds did you play?

MS: It was just two because the first time we tied and then he beat me in the second one. And I was hoping he was going to win. I wasn't sure how I was going to react if I won. I was glad he won, you know, I wanted something positive to come out of this situation.

CO: Have you had you heard from the driver of the other car?

MS: Actually, yes ma’am. I had posted this comment on Facebook and his wife commented “That's my husband.” You know she started laughing and saying that that was her husband.

CO: So you know who the guy is now?

MS: Yes ma'am. I actually asked them for a revenge paper-rock-scissors game.

CO: You want a rematch?

MS: Yes ma'am.

CO: Because you wanted him to win. Next time you want to win.

MS: Next time I want to win because he made me look bad on video.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: You’re suggesting this might be a good way for people to resolve this problem when someone's trying to get in and just say OK, OK, let's just play, let's just get this over with, right, rock paper scissors?

MS: Let's go old school and just settle it that way. That's how everything should be settled — politics everything.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: That's a great idea. Marco, it’s great fun to speak with you, thanks.

MS: You're welcome. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

MS: Bye-bye.

JD: While stuck in traffic Marco Sanchez let a driver in in front of him after they played rock-paper-scissors. We reached Mr. Sanchez and League City, Texas. And if you'd like to see that video of those drivers playing, it’s on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Whimsical Piano]

Wal-Mart Play-Doh Fingerprints

JD: There was no need for a series of elaborate cons. A disguise was not mandatory. Lowering himself from the ceiling on a wire while wearing night vision goggles — unnecessary. And given the fact that it was daytime at a Wal-Mart that was open for business — probably counterproductive. Still the heist did have its challenges. First grab a thing from that Wal-mart in Leicester, Massachusetts. Then leave that Wal-Mart without paying for that thing. And also without the people at Wal-Mart knowing you have taken a thing that you are not paying for. So a straightforward caper, but not a simple one. To pull it off the thief chose a fiendishly clever method. He would neutralize the anti-theft device on the thing he was stealing and he would use Play-Doh to do it. You didn't know that if you covered one of those devices with Play-Doh it would silence the alarm, did you? Yeah, well, it doesn't — at all. It's Play-Doh, so as soon as the thief got to the door the alarms went off and he took off. He must have been so mad at Play-Doh. And now it has betrayed him twice, because A: It is not great at magically silencing anti-theft devices and B: It is great at being squishy under your fingers and therefore being a great place for police to find his exquisitely preserved fingerprints. So it took a little while, but those fingerprints have now put a suspect in jail — a guy who is wanted in at least two other states. It seems he hasn't left a good impression — except for the one he left in the Play-Doh of course.

Back To Top »

Part 2: UBC tax professor, NFL cheerleader

UBC tax professor

Guest: Tom Davidoff

JD: You may have heard our interview with British Columbia's attorney general David Eby yesterday. After he canceled a town hall meeting this week, homeowners gathered at a Vancouver park to protest the NDP government's planned school tax increase on multimillion dollar homes. Mr. Eby's name was on a lot of signs at that protest. But Tom Davidoff’s name was on at least one of them too. He is not a politician. He is an economics professor at the University of British Columbia’s Business School, and he speaks out quite often about housing and taxes, which seems to have made him a target. And now, after people made several complaints to UBC about Mr. Davidoff, the university has come out in defence of their professor. It says quote “Calls to interfere with the communication of scholarly opinions amount to a request to violate university policy” unquote. We reached Tom Davidoff in Surrey, British Columbia.

CO: Professor Davidoff, you have been labelled an American socialist transplant. What do you make of that?

TD: Well, I'm a proud Canadian immigrant and citizen. And at my citizenship ceremony I was told I had, not only a right, but an obligation to try to make my community better, and I try to live by that.

CO: And you’ve also been told in quite direct terms, “Buzz off Davidoff.”

TD: I have. You know, people get upset about housing. Some people are going to face increased taxes and they're angry and they may be worried so they're lashing out.

CO: Do you think it's not deserved?

TD: Well, look, my job as an academic is to put ideas out there. They may be controversial and they may be wrong and people are more than welcome to debate with me and try and show that I'm missing some institutional considerations, that my logic is faulty. That's fine, and I welcome it. What I don't like is smear campaigns and trying to be silenced for what I say.

CO: Is that what you think is going on?

TD: Oh, absolutely.

CO: And silenced in what way?

TD: Well, I've had people reaching out to me and the university to tell me I should keep my mouth shut.

CO: OK, let's talk about what's happening at the University, because your university UBC has had complaints about you. What can you tell us about the nature of them?

TD: Well, I haven't seen all of them but I know that people believe that this is a controversial issue and as a professor at the University I shouldn't be speaking on behalf of the university. There, there may be some confusion. When I speak I'm not speaking on behalf of the university but as a member of the university. It may be to people who aren't familiar with the nature of a university and public discourse that they think I'm exploiting my institutional position in some way. When I think the whole idea of a university is to foster dialogue.

CO: How much influence do you have over the tax policy in British Columbia?

TD: Well, you know, this has been what George from Seinfeld would call my marine biologist moment. You know, I'm a researcher, but I do housing economics and I hear that after cat videos housing is the most searched thing on the Internet in Vancouver. Governments are struggling to find answers. Now in my own research and thought about the market in particular, it's obvious what the answers are. We need better zoning and we need to shift taxes from working for a living and selling things onto just buying property. It's really fairly straightforward and I think the clarity of the little bit of distance that you get as an academic has been really valued. And I've been really amazed and grateful that I've been able to get my ideas out there, but I'm just a citizen, everybody is allowed to speak and I certainly don't get to tell the government what they should do.

CO: But they have they have appreciated and taken your ideas, have they not?

TD: Well, I was very proud. You know, something I called the B.C. Housing Affordability Fund, which I got 50 other academics to sign off on, morphed a bit but, became the number one solution in this year's budget to housing problems in B.C. They’re calling it the speculation tax, it's not exactly, RBC has an affordability fund, but it's very much the idea that you should not be taxing work and living in Vancouver so much as tax and just buying property without being a part of the workforce.

CO: They've also — the government has put in place or wants to put in place — this tax on houses that are valued at more than $3 million. That’s what we were talking about with Mr. Eby yesterday. One of your tweets — this is one I guess people take exception to. You tweeted that the worst thing that could happen to a school taxpayer is to sell the house the for millions and buy a cheaper home debt free. That would be a dream come true for most B.C. taxpayers. Do understand why some people take exception to that?

TD: I do. You know, one of the angles that people play in public dialogue is, you know, some people think people who own a $10 million home are rich but they're not rich — they're house rich but they might be only affluent or upper middle class in terms of cash flow or they might even have low income in retirement. And what I wanted to point out is that people won't be forced out by the way. It's very important to note that seniors don't have to pay a penny until they move out of the home or die so there's no cash flow problem. You can wait until you get your big cash flow from selling the house to pay this tax. But even if somebody somehow fell through the cracks there, as I tried to point out, the worst thing that would happen is they'd sell a house, which has costs. And I asked people, imagine you move out of your current home and you're given a $3 million home debt free, how much money would you have to be paid so that you wouldn't feel bad about that? And the answer most people gave is you wouldn't have to give me any money at all, I'd die to have a three million dollar home with no debt. So I just was trying to point out that the people paying this tax are in fact affluent. But I understand people don't like the tax and they feel like their home might be in jeopardy and so they may have been emotionally upset by that.

CO: Mr. Eby suggested that a lot of the heat that he's taking, and perhaps you're taking, is coming from the real estate industry — that agencies are stirring the pot and that this isn't really people as much. Would you agree with that?

TD: Possibly. I have great relationships with people in the real estate industry. I teach real estate finance. I run our Real Estate Centre. You know, mostly people in the industry love what I have to say about zoning. On the other hand, generally they're not crazy about what I say about taxes, but we have spirited debate and that's fine. That said, there is a campaign out to shut me up. I don't know who's organizing the campaign. But this is not just one or two people. People are out to smear me and silence me.

CO: Where is that campaign to smear you coming from?

TD: You know, I want to leave that to investigative reporters.

CO: No, no, you've just said that there is a campaign to smear you and I’d like to have a detail to corroborate.

TD: What I'm saying is that multiple people are trying to pick into my personal life and sort of get me and I'm getting that vibe. I don't really want to get into that because I just I don't think that's a great way to debate public issues.

CO: So are you putting this out. That's quite a strong statement to make, a very alarming one. What is happening? Who is trying to smear you personally, and how, in what way? Judt give us some sense of that?

TD: Well, I mean, I would call American socialist a smear. Multiple people are using the same language. You know, that makes me think that there's — people had a meeting and they were like this is going to be our messaging approach. If you look at the protest all the signs look the same, there was a messaging approach. And part of the messaging approach is go after Davidoff.

CO: OK, we'll leave it there. Professor Davidoff, thank you.

TD: Real pleasure. Thank you very much.

JD: Tom Davidoff is an associate professor of economics at the University of British Columbia.

We reached him in Surrey, B.C.

[Music: Ambient Bass]

NFL cheerleader

SOUNDCLIP

LYNDON HASKEY: For all the people that don’t think there’s fish in Quill Lakes, quit smoking the Trudeau pipe, eh. Eh, look at that thing, hey.

JD: That may sound like a fisherman reeling in his catch, but it is in truth, the sound of a farmer reeling in disbelief. Earlier this week, Saskatchewan cattle farmer Lyndon Haskey went to check his pastures. Like many farmers in the Quill Lakes area, Mr. Haskey is dealing with flooding on his land. But he could not believe it when he found his fields teeming with, instead of cows, fish. Yesterday, Garth Materie, host of CBC Saskatchewan's Afternoon Edition spoke to Mr. Haskey about the Jackfish invasion.

SOUNDCLIP

LH: They're spawning right now so they're working their way upstream and I was out checking cows and I was going across the pasture and basically they call it the land of living skies. But it's the land the living water too, and these fish all started swimming everywhere. And it kind of scared me off to start. And then I realised that it was these Jackfish. And then I took my phone out and I started recording it and it was quite the sight to see.

GN: Lyndon is this just a spring thing or is this part of the bigger story about the flooding of the Quill Lakes?

LH: Now with the Jackfish coming across the pasture I think it's more of just a spring thing. But as far as the lake, the water's right there on our land. For us to go fishing it's — I can walk in the pasture walk out up to my knees in the water and it's full of freshwater shrimp and those little Stickleback minnows. It's just full of life is what it is.

GN: You gonna take a net the next time you go check the cows?

LH: Well, I think that's against the law actually. If I looked it up I’mpretty sure it is.

[LAUGHTER]

JD: That was cattle farmer Lyndon Haskey speaking to Garth Materie, host of CBC Saskatchewan's Afternoon Edition yesterday. On Monday, the Quill Lakes area farmer went to check on his cattle and found his pastures flooded with spawning Jackfish instead.

[Music: Industrial]

NFL cheerleader

Guest: Bailey Davis

JD: In the Instagram photograph Bailey Davis is wearing a black one piece bodysuit. After she posted it in January she was promptly fired from her position as a cheerleader for the New Orleans Saints. Now she has filed a discrimination complaint against the team. She alleges that the team has two sets of rules — one for players and another, much stricter set, for cheerleaders Ms. Davis and a former Miami Dolphins cheerleader who has also filed a complaint, say that they are willing to settle their suits for just $1 — but only if NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell agrees to meet with them. They have given him until tomorrow to respond. We reached Bailey Davis in Sarasota, Florida.

CO: Ms. Davis, what do you want to say to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell?

BAILEY DAVIS: Well, if we are granted the meeting with Goodell, it will be a four hour meeting and it'll be me and Chris and Ann and two other girls representing two other teams. And we’ll all have the opportunity to tell our story of what we've seen in NFL cheerleading over the years. And hopefully he'll listen to us. We're not asking for an apology and we're not pointing fingers, but we want to have equal and fair rules that are free of discrimination. So that is the goal for that meeting.

CO: Can you just take us back to January when you posted this photo? What reasons did the New Orleans Saints give for why you were fired?

BD: They told me the photo was inappropriate and that I had a dirty face and they said it was not a classy picture. However, in our contract it says we can't post in lingerie, nude or seminude and they said that said that in the photo I had on lingerie, and that it links me to the rumors that I was at a party with a player.

CO: OK, so what would be the problem with you being at a party?

BD: There's no fraternization rule — just for the cheerleaders. And so if I were at a party with a player, in the same building as a player, it's grounds for immediate termination for me.

CO: OK, so you posed this photo in a one piece and they said that was against the rules. But this was on a private Instagram account, was it not?

BD: Right. It was and at this point I was told to block any football players that followed me. And so my page was private and no one from the Saints — including the football team — followed me on Instagram.

CO: OK. And that you mentioned this because they say they don't want the cheerleaders fraternizing with the football players, in this case the New Orleans Saints. They say the reason for this is to protect the cheerleaders from football players who might prey on them. Isn't that a good idea?

BD: No, I think it shouldn't be up to us to control the players actions and if that's how they feel about it and that we need to be protected from the football players, you should give the football players the rules. Don't leave it on me, and especially my job shouldn't depend on if a player is trying to contact me or not and how I respond.

CO: The football players themselves, the men, don't have to sign any agreement that they will not contact you or to try to engage with cheerleaders. It's entirely incumbent on the cheerleaders to make sure that doesn't happen.

BD: Right. They have no fraternization rules or social media rules.

CO: I understand also, even if you're just like in a restaurant having a meal and a player comes in, you have to leave?

BD: Right. We can't be anywhere the players are, obviously, unless it's at a football game. Even then we're not allowed to make eye contact with the players or engage in conversation.

CO: It's entirely incumbent on you, once again, the cheerleaders. To go back to the restaurant example, so the player doesn't have to leave or not go in if you're there, if cheerleader’s there, it's just the cheerleader has to abruptly depart the venue if the player shows up?

BD: Right. If I walk into a restaurant and the player’s there I have to leave. Or if I'm there first with my family or something and a football player walks in — from any team or that goes for NBA too — I would have to leave.

CO: What kind of pay did you get as a cheerleader?

BD: Minimum wage.

CO: Now just a bit about the culture of cheerleading, in addition to being well poorly paid, the most recent story, there's a New York Times story about a team cheer squad from Washington, where they report that they had to pose topless for a photo shoot while male sponsors of the team watched and they were told they had to be personal escorts at night for some male sponsors at an event in Costa Rica, the team claims this was optional. But the cheerleaders felt they didn't do that they would lose their position. What does that say about the culture of cheerleading?

BD: Well, first off, I think that story is absolutely horrifying and it makes me so mad, but I'm not surprised. And for them to say that, you know, it was optional but the cheerleaders say that they were scared to lose their position, I completely understand that. Of course the calendar was optional but you were put down on by the director if you didn't come on the calendar shoot. And we’re told so many times that you're a replaceable, there's hundreds of girls that would do your job for free. So anytime something comes up you do it.

CO: How difficult is this for you to challenge the Saints and to challenge this whole profession of cheerleading?

BD: I mean, it's something I had to talk about with my family. I had to pray about it before doing this. I've lost all my best friends on the team, but I've also had a lot of support from former NFL cheerleaders and said, you know, thank you for saying something I was always too afraid to and there was so many sketchy things that went on.

CO: You have set a deadline, you and your lawyer have set a deadline for tomorrow for NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to agree to this meeting, which you want a four our meeting with you and some other cheerleaders to talk about this culture, to see what can be done to make this more equitable. If you don't get that what will you do?

BD: My lawyer has a plan for that and I will trust whatever she has going forward.

CO: All right, we'll leave it there and we'll be following this story. Ms. Davis I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

BD: Thank you so much.

JD: Bailey Davis is a former New Orleans Saints cheerleader. A lawyer for the Saints told As It Happens in an e-mail that the team denies any gender discrimination. We have more on the story on our website.

[Music: Oboes]

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Part 3: Hawaii sunscreen ban, UK tax havens, Hobby Lobby artifacts

UK tax havens

Guest: Tara Rivers

JD: When the Panama Papers were dumped two years ago they provided an unprecedented glimpse into the shady world of offshore banking. We learned details about how the world's super rich create shell companies in offshore tax havens, often with, obviously, the aim of avoiding paying tax. Now many of those tax havens are British overseas territories and now the UK is set to impose new rules that will force these territories to adopt public registers of company ownership by 2020. The territories are not overly happy about that. Tara Rivers is the minister of financial services for the Cayman Islands. We reached her in Georgetown, Grand Cayman.

CO: Minister Rivers, why are you opposed to these new regulations?

TARA RIVERS: First of all, let me say that the Cayman Islands, we completely agree with the premise of the discussion itself, which is to continue to enhance the global fight against money laundering. And, in fact, for more than 50 years Cayman Islands have taken definitive actions to build and maintain a globally compliant financial services regime, particularly as it relates to our tax transparency and cooperation, regulatory compliance, anti-money laundering and counter terrorist financing.

CO: The British MPs who support this measure say they're doing it to increase transparency. Do you disagree?

TR: Well, I think the actions of the British parliament that was taken back is itself instructive. The claim that the need to increase transparency by attempting to legislate from Westminster for territories that they have recognized to be autonomous with democratically elected governments in a way that the claim is to fight financial crimes, is very much incongruent with the position that they took themselves when they had the opportunity to amend what is a glaring gap in their own system of beneficial ownership, and that is the collection of the relevant anti money laundering and KYC, know your customer information. They had the opportunity to actually address that by voting on a provision that would actually require them to do what is basic AML checks, which what we've been doing in the Cayman Islands for, you know, well over 15 years and they've voted that provision down.

CO: However it has to be done, we have learned from the Panama Papers and other reports, that shell companies in places like the Cayman Islands, where you are, are often used to avoid paying taxes and sometimes for money laundering and illegal activity. So if you think that this isn't going to work or that what else they have suggested has failed, what do you suggest then?

TR: Well, I need to correct an assertion that you just made — the assertion that shell companies and this idea that there is still secrecy that exists in the Cayman Islands. I mean, I can't speak to all offshore jurisdictions, I will speak to the one that I know, and that is the Cayman Islands — that is actually incorrect, again. There are no shell companies, there are no numbered accounts, there are no bear shares in the Cayman Islands. All of those provisions that may have existed in the past have certainly been abolished within the last decade. And so to say that this is a practice that is part and parcel of the way of life that we do when we conduct business in the Cayman Islands, again, is factually incorrect. What needs to happen is exactly what the Cayman Islands has done and continues to do, and that is to show itself to be a co-operative jurisdiction. Over 100 countries including Canada and including the United States, get information, tax information, beneficial ownership information as relevant the tax authorities, the regulatory authorities. And this information is actually shared, not just on request with respect to any investigations that the relevant authorities may be conducting, but also it is also now available automatically as a result of these agreements which the Cayman Islands have willingly and voluntarily signed up to.

CO: I just want to take it a step further. Your premier Alden McLaughlin has gone a step further than you said, he said in a statement that he believes that this amounts to constitutional overreach and it's reminiscent of the worst injustices of a bygone era of colonial despotism.

TR: Well, I do believe that it is constitutional overreach and therefore we’ve expressed our extreme disappointment in the way that this particular amendment was dealt with. We don't have representatives in the U.K. parliament, as they acknowledged themselves, again in making this concession on this amendment. But they were very quick to ensure that the rights of the Crown Dependencies were protected by actually asking that it not be applied to them. So again, there is there a whole range of issues. But I want it to be known and underscored that it has nothing to do with the Cayman Islands not supporting the overall premise.

CO: Minister Rivers, thank you.

TR: Thank you very much for taking the time. I really appreciate it.

JD: Tara Rivers is the minister of financial services for the Cayman Islands. We reached her in Georgetown, Grand Cayman.

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May 3, 2018 episode transcript

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