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The AIH Transcript for April 25, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight…

CO: When she left for work on Monday she was starting a new job. But Renuka Amarasingha never made it home. Tonight we'll learn more about the devoted single mother who died in the van attack in Toronto.

JD: Cruel Brittania. The U.K. government's hostile treatment of undocumented immigrants is under the microscope. And our Canadian guest tells us about how she was abruptly told to leave England after decades of living there.

CO: The depths of depravity. Danish inventor Peter Madsen gets life in prison for the brutal murder of journalist Kim Wall aboard his homemade submarine.

JD: Cartoon hero. With his ingenious educational songs for Schoolhouse Rock, The late jazz musician Bob Dorough taught other grownups a lesson about how to teach.

CO: Caisy chainsaw. A B.C. agency is fighting flower power by enlisting flower-plowers and a catchy new jingle to destroy the scourge of breathtakingly beautiful invasive daisies.

JD: And Simian-stagram. When wildlife photographer David Slater taught monkeys to take selfies, little did he know he'd be taken to court. Now the landmark case has finally come to a photo finish — in his favour. As It Happens: The Wednesday Edition. Radio that guesses now he has a license to print monkey.

[Music: Theme]

Back To Top »

Part 1: Toronto van attack: Buddhist monk, Submarine murder trial, Monkey selfie ruling

Toronto van attack: Buddhist monk

Guest: Ahangama Rathanasiri

JD: Today we learned the identities of more victims of Monday's van attack in Toronto. Among them was Renuka Amarasingha. She was originally from Sri Lanka, but made Toronto her home more than 15 years ago. She worked in Nutrition Services with the Toronto District School Board. And on Monday she had just started work at a new school. It was her first day. Ms. Amarasingha was a single mother. She leaves behind a seven-year-old son. Ahangama Rathanasiri is the chief monk at the Mahavihara Buddhist Meditation Centre, which Ms. Amarasingha attended regularly. We reached him in Toronto.

JD: First of all, Reverend Rathanasiri, I'm sorry for your loss.

AHANGAMA RATHANASIRI: Yeah.

CO: What kinds of memories are you having of Renuka?

AR: About 15 years ago I came to know her. She visited this temple. She was a he was a Buddhist and she was happy to come to the temple. Whenever she got any kind of bad feelings in her mind she comes to the temple and get blessings, that is the way she did it. So I remember that when she was pregnant a husband left her. At that time she had difficulties, so I talked to her and then gave her advice that there are many people in the world that face many problems and try to be courageous. Then she happy anyhow. With difficulties she raised her child. Now the child is seven-years-old.

CO: This is just seven years ago, she has a seven- year-old boy.

AR: Yeah. Recently, the last time I saw her was the 22^nd, this incident happened during 23^rd. I saw her on 22^nd because we had a celebration, a new year celebration — the Sri Lankan New Year. So we wanted to show the values of the New Year celebrations to the children at our Sunday school. So nearly 200 students are studying at our Sunday school. So this boy is also one of them, so the Renuka had brought the child to that celebration.

CO: And so your last memories of her, your last image, is this happy day of Sri Lankan New Year’s and with her son, it must've been a good day.

AR: Oh yes, of course. He was very happy on that day. I had some some friends told me that he had talked to them and hugged them and talked nicely. Because she came from Sri Lanka very recently, I think a couple of days before. It is amazing thing that before the before her death she went to Sri Lanka and visited her mother. She talked to her and her only two siblings, elderly ones, she to talked to them too. And I heard that she's the one who looked after the mother.

CO: Did she take her son with her to Sri Lanka?

AR: Yes, yes.

CO: Wonderful, so grandparents saw their boy.

AR: Yeah, yeah.

CO: What's going to become of him? Can you tell us a bit about her son and what will happen now?

AR: He's living with the family where Renuka lived. Renuka rented the basement of that house, she lived with their son in that basement. So the people in that house, the couple in that house are looking after the child now.

CO: How is the boy doing? Do you know if he's been told?

AR: He doesn't know about the demise of the mother. He doesn't know, he cannot understand that.

CO: Do you know anything about the boy's father?

AR: The boy’s father also came here after the death of Renuka. Renuka told me that three months after she was pregnant that person left. Friends also told me that he had no connection with the child.

CO: Did Renuka have any family, other family, here in Toronto?

AR: No she doesn't have any relatives here. But friends are like relatives. Friends are very friendly with her.

CO: What are her friends saying about her?

AR: They are very concerned. They are very concerned. They are very sad about the demise of Renuka because she's generous, kind and helpful to her friends. So what to do? This is life. We have to face these kind of problems in the world.

CO: I understand there has been a fundraising campaign for her.

AR: That is the only thing we can do. We are going to do the funeral rights according to Buddhist tradition and the other thing is we have to look after the child. So people are very generous, not only Sri Lankan, but also Canadians are from different ethnic backgrounds.

CO: I understand just about an hour ago it was about fifty thousand dollars that had been raised.

AR: Yes, people are very, very kind. They are very generously helping this incident.

CO: What are you saying to your community as far as comforting people about the loss of their friend?

AR: According to Buddhism we teach them to understand the impermanence, all the time that is what we teach. Before we die, one day or the other, everybody has to face this reality. Therefore we should reflect on the true nature of life. Everything is changing all the suffering is created because of the attachment. That is what the Buddha said. Many types of people are in the world. We cannot correct them. What we have to do is to correct ourselves.

CO: Reverend Rathanasiri, thank you so much for telling us about Renuka.

AR: You’re welcome.

CO: Bye.

AR: Bye.

JD: Ahangama Rathanasiri is the chief monk at the Mahavihara Buddhist Meditation Centre. he was also a friend to Renuka Amarasingha. We reached Mr. Rathanasiri in Toronto.

Ken Lam Update

JD: Monday’s attack left many Toronto residents traumatized — and that includes Police Constable Ken Lam. Constable Lam is responsible for single-handedly forcing the surrender of 25-year-old Alek Minassian. Constable Lam has not spoken publicly since the attack but today Toronto Deputy Police Chief Peter Yuen spoke on the officer’s behalf. Here's part of what he said at a press conference today.

SOUNDCLIP

PETER YUEN: I saw him yesterday morning in person. I can say to you this morning when I spoke to him, when I texted him, just by the language that he has improved quite a bit. But I cannot assure you what's going to happen tomorrow. Because when you go to traumatic experiences there's a cycle that you go through. Some people can rationalize this, digest this, in three days. Some will be a lifetime. So yesterday morning, I can tell you, it was very difficult for Officer Lam. But today I could feel a sense of relief because he knows that the public has bestowed on him that the hero status — he doesn't want it, but he's very appreciative. This is not a fairytale where he grew up wanting to be a police officer. He became a police officer after 14 years as a successful engineer. And he asked himself ‘What can I do for the City of Toronto?’ because he was born and raised in the city of Toronto. Not a single Toronto Police Service member wakes up in the morning and says ‘I want to be a hero.’ We come in and do our job. And sometimes these things have a way of finding us instead of us finding them. So the incident found Ken Lam on Monday. We wanted him to talk this out, talk it out, talk it out, talk it out, until he understands what took place. Because right now he's still asking me did I make the right decision. What if I opened fire that day, what would happen to me? I can tell you, for someone that went through a traumatic experience, these things stay in your mind frame by frame. He was telling me the exact same that I went through 30 years ago. And I said that I can relate. I said to him ‘Did you wake up in cold sweat?” He said “I did.” And then “Do you wake up feeling anxiety?” He said “Yes I did.” I said “I know that, because I did — every hour.” He's asking me should he go back to the scene and visit it. I said it depends because every time I go back to the scene where I almost lost my life 30 years ago, I still have that feeling. It still impacts me. So it depends who you are as an individual. So we have to look at what he's suffering from. We have to make sure his mind is clear. We need to help him because we cannot allow another officer to go back on the road to suffer silently.

JD: That was Toronto Deputy Police Chief Peter Yuen speaking to reporters earlier today.

[Music: Ambient Synth Tones]

Submarine murder trial

Guest: Julie Thomsen

JD: Danish inventor Peter Madsen is going to prison for life. He was sentenced today for the murder of journalist Kim Wall, whom he killed aboard his homemade submarine last year. Her body was found dismembered, floating in the ocean. Mr. Madsen had offered bizarre and contradictory stories about what happened to Ms. Wall. In the end the judge and two jurors rejected all of them. Julie Thomsen is a journalist who has been covering the trial for Sky TV. We reached her in Copenhagen. And a warning, this interview does cover some graphic details of the murder.

CO: Julie, can you describe that moment in the courtroom when the sentence was read out?

JULIE: THOMSEN: Yes, it was a packed courtroom today and it was very tense in there. And it was an odd situation because as the details behind the decision were read to the court he was just completely stiff, just looking down into his table. And then he left the room with his lawyer and they came back and his lawyer announced that he would appeal the ruling.

CO: So this reaction you saw from Peter Madsen, how different was then it had been during the trial? What was his demeanor during the course of the 12 days of the trial?

JT: In the beginning he was actually, well, I don't know if you can say playing along. He was talking vividly to the court explaining his story of how he said Kim Wall died in an accident. And then already on the second day of the trial he changed his behaviour. He became more irritated with the prosecutor and he started snapping at him. And as the case went on and he wasn't on the stand anymore he started to appear — to me he looked a bit bored, actually. And he just sat there drawing or writing on a piece of paper, it wasn't clear to see what he was doing, but it didn't look like he was paying a lot of attention.

CO: So he sat there like that. Some parts of it looking bored during the description, revelation of the details of this horrific murder. Can you just tell us what the case is? I know it's really graphic, horrible images, but if you could, as best you can, tell us what the prosecutor put forward in the case of this killing in the submarine?

JT: Yes It is horrible indeed. The prosecutor started out — he said that he believed, and he believed it was visible from the evidence that Peter Madsen had tortured, tied up and murdered Kim Wall. And that he had done it with great pleasure — that it was something he had planned to do for a while. The evidence we were showed was film found on Madsen’s computer — well animated films — of women having their throats cut, being impaled with spears. And we were read aloud some text about impaling women that were also found on Peter Madsen’s computer. And other very incriminating evidence was that Peter Madsen had clicked on a YouTube link on the night of the murder, which prosecution believed was a video of a real woman having her throat cut. And that was shown to members of the court, but the press did not see it. We only heard the sound, but that was far from enough for me.

CO: And during this whole time, during the time he was on the stand and when he was questioned throughout this process, Peter Madsen kept changing his story, right? What did he initially say had happened to Kim Wall, the journalist?

JT: The first story Peter Madsen told anyone was that he had dropped him off at the island where he had picked her up in the submarine. Then when he spoke with the police the next time, he told a different story of how she had hit her head on a hatch cover in a submarine and that she had died instantly from that injury. When he showed up in court for the trial he told the story of how Kim Wall had died from an accident in the submarine but a different accident, this time she had been trapped inside the submarine and he believed that she had died from carbon monoxide poisoning as he had forgotten to turn off the engines as he went outside the submarine.

CO: There were parts of what the prosecution put forward that he did admit having done. Can you explain that?

JT: Yeah he did admit to having dismembered Kim Wall because he said he panicked after she had died from this horrible, horrible accident. And he did admit to having stabbed Kim Wall to make the body sink easier.

CO: These details — and I know you're sparing us some of the more horribly graphic parts of this — but was Kim Wall's family present in the court to hear what happened to their daughter and loved one?

JT: I can't imagine how hard it must have been for Kim Wall’s parents and her boyfriend. They were in court some of the days, they weren't there today for the verdict. It must have been too hard for them. But her boyfriend Oddur did go into court one day to testify. He went into court, took off his jacket, sat down and testified, and then he put back on his jacket and then he left the room and he didn't look at Peter Madsen once. So I imagine it's just been too hard for them to sit in there and listen to everything that's been said in that room.

CO: But you sat there for everything that was said in that room, and you've written a piece today about how you wish that you never had to have covered this trial. What has it been like for you in these hearings?

JT: I wish I never had to cover it in the sense that I wish it had never happened. Things like this shouldn't happen to anyone. So covering this case, of course, listening to the horrible, horrible details in this case has really mostly made me just so sad, so sad that this could happen to anyone. It has made me feel sick to my stomach that a person could do this to another person.

CO: Just a horrible story. Julie I'm glad you were there to report on it. I don't know how you got through that, but I appreciate you talking to us. Thank you.

JT: Thank you.

JD: Julie Thomsen is a journalist who has been covering the trial of Danish inventor Peter Madsen, who was sentenced to life in prison today. We reached Ms. Thomsen in Copenhagen.

[Music: Ambient Bass Tones]

Monkey selfie ruling

Guest: David Slater

JD: It is an amusing photograph of a smiling monkey taking a selfie. And back in 2011 when wildlife photographer David Slater set that photo up he thought he had something special — not something that would get him sued by the animal rights group PETA over who owns it. Mr. Slater himself, or the monkey, Naruto? Well now, seven years later, the U.S. Court of Appeals has ruled in favour of humans. It has upheld a lower court ruling that threw the lawsuit out and decided that animals cannot indeed file copyright infringement cases. We reached David Slater in Chepstow, Wales.

CO: Mr. Slater, what's your reaction when you learned that the U.S. Court of Appeals agrees that a monkey cannot sue for copyright infringement?

DAVID SLATER: Well, obviously, I'm absolutely delighted. It’s been a great conclusion to a long-running story that's been amusing to me and I've learnt a lot. But yeah, to have it out of the way it's great. I can now concentrate on my photography again.

CO: Tell us the background for people who don't know the story. How did this come about? What did you do that created this?

DS: Well, it goes back a long way, it goes back seven years. When I published the story in the Daily Mail straight afterwards Wikipedia took the image off the Daily Mail and claimed to the world and promoted my image as free, because they said that when a monkey presses the button nobody owns the copyright on it. Now that's totally wrong and I've been fighting this forever. And that went on for five years trying to get Wikipedia to take this image down. Clearly a monkey in Indonesia decided that no he pressed the button so he should gain the copyright. So Naruto disagreed with Wikipedia as well as I did. And he found some animal rights organization called PETA and primatologists who took me to court in California.

CO: This is a selfie that — the monkey took the selfie — took it with your camera. Is that right?

DS: That's half true, it is correct. There's more details to that that I should perhaps explains. I was with a troupe of monkeys and they befriended me and watched me take photographs of them to the point where I was taking selfies of myself with the monkeys. And then a little monkey came up and stole the camera off me and lo and behold it had learned from watching me how to press the button. It clearly excited the monkey, but those pictures were no good. They were blurred and of the forest floor and I deleted them. But it did give me the idea to set the camera on a tripod and encourage the monkey again to press the button again to take this great image of itself. So people think that the monkey had sort of an autonomous control, and it was around the forest behind trees and I wasn't aware of it taking selfies itself, and that's totally wrong.

CO: So PETA thought this image belongs to the monkey, right?

DS: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I sort of a applaud them on this because I'm an animal rights advocate as well and I really agree with PETA that animals need more legal protection and more legal rights. So it’s quite entertaining for me and amusing that I’d been out there to try and raise the issue of these animals and then PETA also tried to raise the issue of the animals but in a slightly different way to myself, and we collided obviously.

CO: You actually did come to a settlement with PETA last month, is that right?

DS: We did we settled out of court. But three of the judges dismissed it. So whatever we settled came to nothing. We asked the court to drop the case actually. And that's why all of a sudden the judgea declared that they weren't to drop the case. They've spent enough time on this and the taxpayers money in America.

CO: So but the courts wanted — they looked at this as an opportunity to create a precedent, a landmark case about animal rights, is that correct?

DS: Yeah, obviously if the monkey had been awarded copyright that would have been absolutely an amazing turn up for the books. But everybody sort of knew that it was up against the wall with this one.

CO: What was the argument that PETA gave as to why the monkey should have the copyright?

DS: One of the one of the arguments was that the copyright act in the U.S. didn’t state that animals couldn't copyright. And I just think that their idea is that animals should have the same rights as humans, and because humans can own property why not animals. You know, in some ways I can agree to animals owning some estate in their forest, some part of it. You know, to be consulted on somehow so we don't just go in and deforest their habitat or take away their food without thought. So even though it was an argument about copyright, it did have wider implications that I’m really pleased about.

CO: I guess what you found yourself in the midst of it is a debate, that's a legal debate that's been going on in the United States and other places for some time now. But this has been other examples of cases where people brought the rights of animals to court and said they should have rights like the ones you just described. Whales should have a right to live in an environment that is safe and healthy for them. They should have the rights to their territories. These arguments have been made about the rights of animals and they generally, well up to now, they’ve all been tossed up by the courts and say only people can have these rights.

DS: Yeah, yeah and again and I applaud people for trying to push the rights and get a legal foundation for them. So I have no regrets. I think my case, as amusing as it was, it did have some merit.

CO: You said that you're just happy that this is over. Why is that?

DS: Lawyers, media interviews. You know, it takes time, time that I should be spending outdoors photographing animals.

CO: But PETA may still appeal. What happens if this goes to the Supreme Court?

DS: My attorney will be busy again. I hope they don't, but we'll see.

CO: Well I hope to get back to your photography. It sounds like you miss it, Mr. Slater. Thank you for speaking with us.

DS: Bye-bye.

CO: Bye.

JD: David Slater is a wildlife photographer. We reached him in Chepstow, Wales.

[Music: Funk Guitar]

Destroy Daisies jingle

JD: Tom Jones with a field of yellow daisies, a song about a meadow full of golden demons that must be annihilated. Sounds like a harsh thing to say about daisies. I mean, aren't they just bright, yet humble harbingers of spring. Do not be naïve, they are the worst. They must be destroyed. Hence the campaign launched by the Peace River Regional District or the PRRD in central B.C. — The Destroy Daisies campaign. Its motto: Destroy Daisies. As the PRRD website points out quote “d Daisies such as Oxeye Daisy and Scentless Chamomile are plagues to the district, considered a regionally noxious under the B.C. Weed Control Act. These white-petaled yellow-centred daisy flowers are the PRRD’s most wanted invasive plants in 2018” unquote. Now it's hard to get that across to all of us gullible chumps who just think flowers are pretty. And so the district held a jingle contest. The winning entry is a sunny sounding tune with a dark message by the group Dirty Little Kitchen. It's our sound of the day.

SOUNDCLIP

DIRTY LITTLE KITCHEN: Oh daisy, oxeye daisy, you gotta go. You pretend that you’re a pretty flower, now I know. Oh Daisy, oxeye daisy, you can’t fool me. You’re a white-petaled, yellow-centred invasive weed. We’ll pull you out by hand you scentless chamomile. Tie you up in a clear bag and toss you in a landfill. It’s free to dump these daisies, all the daisies you can kill. Just bring them to the Peace River Regional District local landfill. Oh Daisy, oxeye daisy, you can’t fool me. You’re a white-petaled, yellow-centred invasive weed. Oh daisy, oxeye daisy, you gotta go. You pretend that you’re a pretty flower, now we know. Destroy those daisies.

JD: Our sound of the day, the B.C. band Dirty Little Kitchen with the winning jingle in a contest held by the Peace River Regional District. It is now the official theme song of the PRRD’s Destroy Daisies campaign.

Back To Top »

Part 2: UK deportations: Canadian, Bob Dorough obit

UK deportations: Canadian

Guest: Margaret O'Brien

JD: You may have heard about what some are calling the Windrush scandal going on in the U.K. at the moment. Windrush was the name of the ship that brought over the first significant wave of post-war immigrants from the Caribbean to England to fill job shortages. Well, since 2012 the Conservative government has been clamping down on undocumented immigrants, including those who came legally during this wave as children. Now some of these people, now mostly in their 60s, have been deported to countries where they have no recollection of living. And they've been barred from returning, even to attend loved ones funerals. Now it has emerged that the mistreatment of Commonwealth-born citizens is far wider than Windrush — including people from countries like Kenya, Cyprus and Canada. Margaret O'Brien is 69 years old. She legally immigrated to the U.K. from Toronto in 1971. where she married an Irishman. In 2015 she received a letter from the Home Office telling her she had ten days to leave the country. We reached Margaret O'Brien at her home in Wolverhampton.

CO: Margaret, what did you think back in 2015 when you got this letter basically telling you to get out?

MO: I thought it was a joke and then I realized the official letter heading and everything else and I was absolutely gobsmacked.

CO: And this is like since 1971 you went over and got married and I understand at one point you had three jobs that you were holding down?

MO: Yeah, that was my last job, the last work I was doing with the council.

CO: And this all began when you applied for disability pension?

MO: Well, yeah, I couldn't work because I had a disc collapse and I had to have major surgery on my neck. Since then I've been disabled, I haven't been able to work. I mean, I love the jobs that I was doing and I would have gone, well I would go back tomorrow if I could.

CO: This letter you got and the following letters it was quite clear that they were going to deport you, and that they were not going to give you your disability pension. This nightmare continued, you had to start going to a home office reporting centre to try and get this sorted out. Can you describe what it was to try and actually make these appointments?

MO: Well, they made them for me and I used to arrange with a member of my family to come with me. It cost me roughly 40 pounds each time I went for transportation and all that. And it would take me nearly two hours to get there for the appointment. And then I had to wait my turn.

CO: There were hundreds of people in this office.

MO: Yes, there was about 200 people in this room. Everything is bolted down. When you go in all the things that are in your bag, like your mobile phone, your keys, your pens and pencils or anything like that is taken off you and it's put in a box and you collect that box on the way out.

CO: And you see all these people in this reporting centre and we’ll just give a little background to this. You were actually caught up in a big government push to get rid of illegal immigrants, but all kinds of people, like yourself and many, many people from the Caribbean, all swept up in what they called the “Hostile Environment Program.” So at what point did you realize that you were part of this large group of people?

MO: Well, it was when I walked through the door you had to go through security and everything else and then you walk into this big room you think my God, not only I've got an appointment for one o'clock they all have. The one time my daughter took me and she said Mom I've just seen a van pull away with a bunch of people in it and she said I thought you were in it. They were taking people to a holding centre. I mean, I was treated very badly at the home office. Twice I turned up and I didn't get to see anybody. One was closed for staff training, the other was because they were too busy. They couldn't see me that day.

CO: So how has it been resolved? You finally got some documentation right?

MO: Yeah, what I had to do, I had to prove who I was by submitting a letter from the people who I rent the house off of. From the local doctors, they gave me a letter stating how long I've been with them. The local council, they gave me a letter stating that I was on the electoral register. And I submitted all this.

CO: But you finally got documentation.

MO: I was granted it and then I had to pay 238 pounds, I think it was.

CO: And have you got your disability pension?

MO: Yes, it's been reinstated, thank God for that. And it was backdated from the time they stopped it.

CO: And so I guess this has been quite an eye opener for you about what's going on in the U.K.?

MO: It was an eye opener, you know. You know, I feel that I've been treated very badly and all that. So, you know, I was rather mad. And, of course, when I heard about the Windrush thing, I thought well it's a similar circumstances to mine. There was another woman here in Wolverhampton, she's roughly about the same age as me. She was taken to a holding centre for three months, you know, and, I mean, to be taken away from your family for that length of time, you know, it's terrible. For me to have that happen here, it would be absolutely — well I think I'd go nuts to be away from my family. I see them all the while.

CO: I'm glad that all worked out for you and thanks for speaking with us tonight.

MO: Oh you're welcome. It's good to hear another Canadian voice.

JD: Margaret O'Brien is a pensioner who has been living in the United Kingdom since 1971. We reached her in Wolverhampton, England. And we have more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Bass Tones]

Emmanuel Macron: No ‘Planet B’

JD: If he was bothered by yesterday's dandruff debacle he didn't let on. Today on the second day of his state visit to Washington, French President to Emmanuel Macron gave a speech to Congress. He began by acknowledging the shared history between France and the U.S. going back to the days of the American Revolution. And he continued by reaffirming their current close ties. But while Monsieur Macron enjoys a good personal relationship with President Donald Trump, their views on policy are quite different. And Monsieur Macron made that clear when he called for the U.S. to resist the temptation of isolationism.

SOUNDCLIP

FRENCH PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON: Today the international community needs to step up all game and build a 21st century world order based of perennial principles we established together after World War II. We are living in a time of anger and fear, but these feelings do not build anything. Anger only freezes and weakens us. And as Franklin Delano Roosevelt said, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

[APPLAUSE]

EM: Therefore, let me say we have two possible ways ahead. We can choose isolationism and nationalism. It can be tempting to us as a temporary remedy to all fears, but closing the door to say a world will not stop the evolution of the world. It will not douce, but inflame, the fears of our citizens. We have to keep our eyes wide open to the new risks right in front of us. I'm convinced that if we decide to open our eyes wider we will be stronger.

JD: President Macron’s speech diverged even more sharply from the views of President Trump on the issue of climate change.

SOUNDCLIP

JD: I believe in building a better future for our children, which requires offering them a planet that's still habitable in 25 years. Because what is the meaning of life, really, if we work and live destroying the planet while sacrificing the future of our children? What is the meaning of life if our decision, our conscious decision is to reduce the opportunities for our children or grandchildren? By polluting the oceans, not mitigating CO2 emissions and destroying our biodiversity we are killing our planet. Let us face it, there is no ‘Planet B.’ And I'm sure one day the United States will come back and join the Paris agreement. And I'm sure we can work together to fulfill with you the ambitions of the global compact on the environment.

JD: French President Emmanuel Macron addressing the U.S. Congress earlier today. Mr. Macron’s the first world leader President Trump has hosted — first state visit.

Bob Dorough obit

Guest: Steve Berger

SOUNDCLIP

SCHOOLHOUSE ROCK: Conjunction Junction. Conjunction junction, what’s your function? Hooking up words and phrases and phrases and clauses.

JD: For generations of kids songs like Conjunction Junction were the soundtrack to Saturday mornings. The songs from the cartoon TV series Schoolhouse Rock were catchy. They clicked with kids, with us, helped us wrap our heads around subjects like math and grammar and history. And while so many of us who grew up in the 70s and the 80s can still recite the lyrics to those songs, relatively few people know the name of the musician behind them — Bob Dorough. On Monday, the legendary jazz musician, composer and singer died. He was 94 years old. Mr. Dorough had already earned his chops playing with Miles Davis and Charlie Parker when he was enlisted to compose, arrange and perform the music for Schoolhouse Rock. Steve Berger was a close friend and a band mate of Bob Dorough. We reached Mr. Berger in New York.

CO: Steve, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

STEVE BERGER: Oh, thank you very much. It's quite a loss. It's kind of like a hole that I don't think will ever be felt.

CO: I understand you are with Bob and his family these last few days. How are they doing?

SB: It's really a remarkable situation. They're all doing just fine. And I think it's because Bob orchestrated it that way.

CO: In what way?

SB: He left peacefully, without a whole lot of fanfare. You know, he called his dear friends and said ‘Hey I’m leaving.’ You know, we did our last gig two weeks ago and he said come over the place afterwards. He said something he never said before to me he said sit down. And he said ‘I'm leaving.’ Just like that. As if I got a ticket and getting on a bus to Cincinnati.

CO: But he knew he was dying?

SB: Oh yes. And it was, you know, he's known for months. But, you know, in the last weeks a few weeks ago he said it's really near, I'm leaving soon.

CO: So that's how you said goodbye to Bob Dorough. How did you say hello to him? Take us back to when you first met him.

SB: Oh, 1979. My friend said I'm going to hear Bob Dorough, do you want to come along? I said Who's Bob Dorough? He says You're kidding. Come let's go. And I fell instantly in love with Bob and I bought the record. And the reason I know it was April 1st of 1979, he signed it to me: To Steve, April 1st 1979.

CO: You said you fell in love with him. What is it about him and his work that you fell in love with?

SB: Sincerity, honesty. The way he could read a lyric you knew exactly what he was talking about and his personality onstage was who he was. Absolutely who you saw was who Bob was.

CO: But it's clear that that ability to say and sing and get across exactly something so clear was what probably made his music for children so compelling and we just played a clip of Conjunction Junction. So a lot of people their first introduction to Bob Dorough’s music, whether they knew it or not, was when they were kids, right?

SB: Bob was a schoolteacher to more people than anyone else has ever been. The way he was able to translate lessons into a three-minute song was unparalleled.

CO: And such difficult subjects. I mean, whether it was math or arithmetic or history or grammar. How did he do that, it was so extraordinary and, of course, it communicated so much to kids, didn't it?

SB: It did. How did he do it? That's a hell of a question because if I knew that I'd be doing it.

[CHUCKLES]

CO: The music you're talking about, what you connected with and fell in love with was jazz, right? He also had a great connection with Miles Davis, didn't he?

SB: Yes indeed.

CO: And how did that come about? How did Bob Dorough come to play and to know Miles Davis? Becasue Miles Davis was notoriously selective who he let into his circle. How did that come about with him and Bob?

SB: Far as I know Bob is the only singer who ever sang on Miles Davis record. They had a mutual friend called Terry Morel and she was living in Los Angeles when Bob was living in Los Angeles. And Terry Morel had Bob's record it's called ‘Devil May Care’ sitting on a shelf. And Miles was hanging out — when Miles would go out there he liked — Miles preferred to sleep on people's couches than to sleep in hotels. So he would stay with Terry Morel and he saw the album cover on the on the shelf and said What's that. And she said oh that's my pal Bob Dorough. And so he said play it for me. Terry told Bob about this little thing where Miles wanted to hear the record. And Miles was playing in town so Bob thought that it would be a great opportunity for him to meet Miles on a more personal level than he had met him back in New York. So Terry takes Bob up to miles and says this is my friend I told you about Bob Dorough, and the way Bob tells story I kind of expected him to say Hey man I liked album. But no, what he did was he grabbed Bob by the wrist and he pulled him toward the bandstand he says I want you to sing Baltimore Oriole. So Bob wasn't going to say no to Miles. So he went up to the bandstand and turned to Paul Chambers who says it's in F minor, just follow me it's easy. So they played it and that was the end of the set. And Bob got off the bandstand. So they became friends that way.

CO: If you could describe for us Bob's music, his singing, how would you describe Bob's music outside of his work like Schoolhouse Rock?

SB: Absolutely sincere, always looking to enjoy it, to give enjoyment — to share. His voice was his voice and what he did and how he interpreted it and how he would share his view of a song was completely his own and absolutely honest and sincere.

CO: You said that you played a gig with Bob just two weeks ago. He died — he was 94 when he died. So how was he on stage?

SB: He struggled. He struggled, but Bob had this incredible way of being able to dig down no matter how he felt and he just would find something in him and bring it up and be able to express. You know, usually people like lose some of their ability to sing. Bob was always perfectly in tune.. I never heard Bob sing a note that was even slightly out of tune.

CO: And of course it comes, it's also the lyrics isn't it, Bob Dorough’s lyrics. Are there any particular songs that are, since he's died, rattling around in your head of Bob's lyrics?

SB: I don't even know if I can say it. ‘Devil May Care.’ You know the lyric: And when the day is through I suffer no regrets. I know that he who frets loses the night. Only a fool thinks he can hold back the dawn. He who is wise never tries to revise what's past and gone. And then the last line is: Live, love today, let come tomorrow what may. Don't even stop for a sigh. It doesn't help if you cry. That's what I live and I'll die. Devil May Care.

[SOBBING]

CO: Steve, great lyrics and so fitting right now, and I thank you so much for telling us about your friend.

SB: Thank you. And Thank Bob.

CO: Well we're going to hear some Bob Dorough right now. Thank you.

SB: Please keep playing him. The world needs him.

CO: Absolutely.

SB: Bye.

CO: Bye. Steve Berger was a close friend and band mate of Bob Dorough. On Monday Mr. Dorough, a renowned jazz musician and composer died. He was 94 years old.

[Music: Oboes]

P.E.I. Red Fox

Guest: Amanda Schochet

JD: Last fall the Grade 7 class from Montague Intermediate School pitched an idea to the powers that be on Prince Edward Island. How about making the red fox a provincial animal? Bush Dumville like that idea. Mr. Dumville is an independent member of the Legislative Assembly and recently he introduced a Private Member's Bill. Just one sentence essentially, just do what the kids asked. Make the red fox vulpes vulpes P.E.I.’s so-called animal emblem. Well, on Tuesday when the bill came up for debate Liberal MLA, Alan McIsaac rose with an amendment.

SOUNDCLIP

ALAN MCISAAC: Jefferson, I'd like to move an amendment to a Cill 113. The amendment is moved by myself seconded the Hon. Member from Montague-Kilmuir removing the words a vulpes vulpes, popularly known as the red fox and replace with bos taurus popularly known as Holstein cow.

JD: Yes, the Holstein cow being suggested as P.E.I.’s provincial animal instead of the red fox. Mr. McIsaac’s idea instead of the idea of a bunch of hardworking students. Why? Well there was a hint in what he said next — as in a hint of petulance. Bush Dumville was a liberal, you see, before he became an independent. And Mr. McIsaac, still a liberal, expressed mock concern that Mr. Dumville might change his mind about the fox like he did when he changed his mind about belonging to the Liberal Party. Well point scored, I guess. But then Alan McIsaac spent several minutes trying to outdo that grade 7 class with his own presentation on the virtues of the Holstein. Here are some highlights.

SOUNDCLIP

ALAN MCISAAC: For the sake of this discussion today I will select the most abundant of the bovine species here on P.E.I., thus championing the case for the very beautiful, highly productive and economically superior Holstein cow. She is a long, leggy and classy. Her frame is all smooth lines and voluptuous curves. Every beauty contest enters…She produces 50 per cent more milk than your average cow, a whopping 50 kilograms a day, she was bred in Prince Edward Island. The Holstein cow is not only…And there is nothing she likes better than eating lush green grass under a bright blue sky. Mr. Chairman, it is for these reasons that I move this amendment Bill 113 to adopt Holstein cow as the animal emblem for Prince Edward Island.

SOUNDCLIP

JD: So that was P.E.I. MLA Alan McIsaac speaking in the provincial legislature on Tuesday. And after the unexpected to presentation opposition MLA Matthew MacKay rose to address what had just happened.

SOUNDCLIP

MATTHEW MACKAY: I was a little surprised to hear some of the remarks and see the amendment here. I've seen something for the first time, an absolute all new low for this government. We had children come in and present to us. They sat in here scared, some shook and we had great conversation and talked about all the great work they had done on this to bring forward. And members from your government were on that committee and everybody was quite in favour and positive of these children coming in. So to come in here and make a complete fool out of them and of the bill, you should be ashamed. If you've got a problem with somebody that left your caucus and you want to take a run at them there's a time and place — this isn't. It’s an all-time low. These kids right now they worked awful hurt and they deserve to treated a lot better in this.

JD: That was Matthew MacKay, Progressive Conservative member of P.E.I.’s legislative assembly. The legislature has not yet voted on the bill to make the red fox or the Holstein cow its animal emblem.

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Part 3: David painting, Bajau diver study

David painting

Guest: Nathalie Bondil

JD: Nathalie Bondil has added some serious weight to her tug of war with the National Gallery in Ottawa. It’s a tug of war over a very delicate work of art. Ms. Bondil is the director of the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts. The painting is by the 18th century French master Jacques-Louis David, a Quebec City parish has owned the thing for decades but that parish is selling it because that parish is short on cash. And that is where the National Gallery was hoping to come in. It is already unloading a very famous Chagall to cover what could be a $6 million-plus price tag. But Ms. Bondil has been leading the charge to keep the painting in Quebec. And now she's convinced the provincial government to give the painting heritage protection. We reached Nathalie Bondil in Montreal.

CO: Ms. Bondil, have you ever seen such a dustup in Canada over a work of art?

NATHALIE BONDIL: I think that there were many stories before but what is important in such cases is that the art is still very important and powerful and symbolic. So as art historians and curators it is joyful to see that the public is so much interested by the destiny of our cultural property.

CO: I want to just get you to explain why this particular painting is so important in Quebec. This is due the English name of it. St. Jerome Hears The Trumpet of the Last Judgment by Jacques-Louis David. It's an 18th century neoclassical painting from a French artist. In what way is it connected to Quebec’s National Heritage?

NB: The first reason is that this painting is unique in Canada and Quebec. It's a masterpiece from one of the best painters during Napoleon’s Empire. It is monumental paintings, it’s a very dramatic painting, which represent the saint in a very moving moment when he is listening to the divine sound from God. And it's also an important painting because it is linked to two great sisters who came from France during the beginning of the 20th century. And they decided to promote French culture and they had a huge collection, which had been given entirely to the Musées de la civilisation in Quebec. And, in fact, the painting was the only object which was not given to the Musées de la civilisation.

CO: What did you think when you heard that the National Gallery of Canada was pursuing the purchase of this painting that, in fact, it was going to sell another work to raise millions of dollars to buy it? And because you were in the midst of a process of acquiring this painting, or hopefully, when you heard that that was going on what was your reaction?

NB: Well, in fact, we knew that there was an interest by the National Gallery of Ottawa, but, of course, we didn't know that they would have the money. That was a surprise, but I would say that, of course, we would like to partner with Ottawa and I think it would be a great win-win situation but we decided to collaborate with the Musées de Quebec because the amount of money is huge and, of course, we do not have the same money for acquisition in comparison with the National Gallery in Ottawa.

CO: I know this story is evolving now, but the head of the National Gallery in Ottawa, Marc Mayer, he was saying that you can't share an old master painting. He said “it's a piece of canvas with some paint on it that's 250 years old. It's not a child of a divorced couple that shuttles back and forth.” What do you make of that?

NB: In fact it's not a valid reason because I know at least two great examples coming from really important institutions. For example, at the Louvre in Paris and the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam decides some years ago to share the acquisition for two paintings by Rembrandt — two great portraits. So it is already done by two very, very famous museums. So I think that they are full of other solutions.

CO: But Mr. Mayer says this is not necessary because he says the National Gallery in Ottawa is just across the Ottawa River from Gatineau, Quebec. He said “we're a five minute walk from the fourth largest city in Quebec. It's not as if the painting is going to Saudi Arabia or Russia, it's going to Ottawa for heaven's sake. I don't really understand what the big deal is.” So what is the big deal?

NB: Well, of course, people from Quebec and Montreal I would not react in the same way. And I must say that it is not just a question with Quebec province and Ottawa because we receive so much great support from people and even main donors from British Columbia, from Ontario etc. they would act exactly the same way if they would have faced the same situation. So of course we're very, very happy to be part of Canada, I’m a proud Canadian citizen. But it is true that in such cases this specific painting has such important links Quebec City that it is important to keep it here. And, in fact, I must say that even the owner right now said that he would prefer to keep the painting not far from the cathedral.

CO: The other part of this is that the only way the National Gallery is able to do this is because, as you know very well, it's very difficult to acquire paintings. The accession funds are not large for Canadian museums and so they're selling a Marc Chagall painting in order to acquire the David. What do you make of the decision to do that in order to acquire paintings?

NB: The National Gallery of Ottawa receives every year $8 million from our public funds. This is one of the biggest amount of money coming from public funds in North America. And that would be, I think, enough for buying this painting for example because it's obviously very dramatic decision, very radical. And the proof is in the way how the public did react in front of this news.

CO: Of course, the development now in this story is that the government of Quebec is making a move now to say that this painting is part of Quebec's heritage, it has to have a protected status so the painting is — they’re saying the painting cannot leave Quebec. Is that going to help your case do you think that — will the Quebec government help you raise the money in order to buy it?

NB: It's not our case, I think it's a national case. And I think that the fact that the minister decided to protect his work has been very welcome, not only by the owner, but also by many Quebecois. And we have more time so we will be able to discuss and to find other solutions, other partnerships because we can see that the situation is a little bit quieter. So there is room for peaceful solutions and for more collaborative solutions.

CO: I appreciate speaking with you Ms. Bondil, thank you.

NB: It's my pleasure, thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

NB: Bye.

JD: Nathalie Bondil is the director of the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts and we reached her in Montreal. The National Gallery has issued a public letter saying quote “We wish to reassure Canadians, and especially Quebeckers, that the National Gallery of Canada's bid to acquire David's St. Jerome is in no way intended to pre-empt efforts by museums in Quebec to purchase the work” unquote.

Hank Azaria: Apu

JD: It seems to slowly be dawning on the people who make the Simpsons that the Indian-American character Apu might not really be that funny. A recent documentary, The Problem With Apu, has brought wider attention to the problems with the stereotyped Indian shopkeeper character in the long running show. And on the late show last night Stephen Colbert asked the actor Hank Azaria for his take. Mr. Azaria provides the voice of Apu, along with many other characters on the Simpsons. Here is part of that exchange.

SOUNDCLIP

STEPHEN COLBERT: Do you understand why some Indian-American or South Asian-American actors are offended by that character?

HANK AZARIA: Yeah, and not just actors. Of course I understand. I mean, it's come to my attention more and more, especially the last couple of years, as you say, that people in the in the South Asian community in this country have been fairly upset by the voice and characterization.

SC: Did that surprise you.

HA: Not over time — it did when I first heard about it. Absolutely.

SC: But what do you think should happen with the character going forward?

HA: Yeah, I've given this a lot of thought, really a lot of thought. And as I say, my eyes have been opened and I think the most important thing is we have to listen to South Asian people, Indian people in this country when they talk about what they feel and how they think about this character and what their American experience of it has been. And, as you know, in television terms, listening to voices means inclusion in the writers room. I really want to see Indian, South Asian writers in the room, not in a token way but genuinely informing whatever new direction this character may take — including how it is voiced or not voiced. You know, I'm perfectly willing and happy to step aside or help transition it into something new. I really hope that's what the Simpsons does. And it just, not only makes sense, but it just feels like the right thing to do to me.

JD: From the Late Show last night, that was Stephen Colbert asking actor Hank Azaria about the character Apu in The Simpsons.

[Music: Ambient Bass]

Bajau diver study

Guest: Melissa Ilardo

JD: Everyone take a deep breath and hold it. OK. Now by the time that I am done reading this your body will likely be screaming for oxygen. Unless of course you're one of the Bajau people from Southeast Asia. The Bajau dive for fish. They're extremely good at holding their breath. Until now though researchers never knew why. Keep holding it. I know your vision’s blurry is just another 20 seconds or so. According to a new study published in the journal Cell the Bajau have actually evolved separately from other humans — and this ability is baked into their genes. Melissa Ilardo is the lead author of the study. She was working out of the University of Copenhagen at the time of the research. We reached her in Salt Lake City, Utah. And you can breathe now.

CO: Ms. Ilardo, just how good are Bajau people holding their breath?

MELISSA ILARDO: They're really exceptional, and it's not just in terms of the length of time for which they can dive, but it's also the breaks between their dives are extremely short even compared to other groups of traditional divers.

CO: How much time do they spend underwater?

MI: So they'll be working for about eight hours a day, and of that, they'll spend about 60 per cent of their time underwater, which is actually most similar to the sea otter.

CO: And what were the theories as to people who observed the Bajau people and been very impressed with their ability to hold their breath? What were the observations, what were the assumptions about how they did it?

MI: So it was actually thought that this was purely a matter of practice. So it was something that could be trained in any individuals. And a lot of this thinking came from the fact that the world record holders in freediving and breath-holding aren't Bajau people. And so it seemed that if you could train European individuals to dive this well, then there must be nothing special about the Bajau.

CO: When you were observing them in Indonesia for the purposes of this study what did you see about how they dive and how what they do, how deep they go?

MI: It's a very natural form of diving, so because they're not diving competitively they're diving functionally, they're just following whatever it is that they're looking for that day. So the one time I was diving with some Bajau divers we were at a certain depth and then they noticed something about 30 to 50 feet deeper than where we were and just drop down immediately to that depth to go after that particular shellfish that they were interested in. So it's a very purposeful form of diving it's not meant to be to see how long they can hold their breath.

CO: You were diving with them?

MI: I was, yeah. Though not as well as their diving.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: Were you holding your breath or were you wearing equipment?

MI: No, I was holding my breath. Yeah, no one of them one of them joked with me said oh let's see who can hold their breath for longer. It's like, well I don't think that's a fair competition.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: But how do they get the depth, how are they able to dive even deeper?

MI: From what I saw, one thing that I found really remarkable was that rather than diving headfirst like I might dive they'd just drop feet first and so they have this really incredible buoyancy control and I think a lot of that is coming from just the sheer amount of time that they're spending in the water.

CO: It must have been really impressive to watch this.

MI: It was extremely impressive. I've never seen anything like it before.

CO: So the assumptions were that it was a skill that they had developed during their lifetime. Why did you suspect it might be more than that?

MI: Well, I've always been interested in natural selection and this seemed like just the perfect opportunity for studying natural selection. Because free diving is actually extremely dangerous and if you look at the statistics a lot of even very experienced free divers will die because they lose consciousness as they are ascending and they drown in the water. So it seems like if they've been doing this dangerous activity for potentially thousands of years, then there should have been an opportunity for natural selection to act on the physiology of diving in this population.

CO: So what were your suspicions, what do you think might be the case?

MI: So I started looking into the physiology of diving and that was when I came across this human dive response. And this wasn't something I had heard very much about, but it turns out that the spleen actually stores oxygenated red blood cells and so as you're diving it contracts and it pushes these red blood cells into your system and this gives you an oxygen boost that allows you to dive for longer.

CO: What did you find out about Bajau people their physiology and their spleens especially?

MI: Yeah. So we found that the Bajau have these disproportionately large spleens. Their spleens are about 50 per cent larger than a population that's living very close by to them and that's fairly genetically similar. And this is true both for Bajau divers as well as Bajau or non-divers. And what that tells us is that it's not simply a response to diving otherwise we would expect to see the difference only in the divers rather than in both.

CO: What does that tell you that they have these very large spleens?

MI: So it tells us that this is probably giving them some kind of advantage in diving. Because they have this larger spleen if you think of it as kind of a biological scuba tank, their tank is a little bit larger than ours so that allows them to stay underwater for longer. And the fact that we see this in both the divers and non-divers tells us that it's probably something that's happening at the genetic level.

CO: I presume you didn't cut open a person to find this out, so how do you know?

MI: Yeah, we did it very non-invasive ways. I brought a portable ultrasound machine down with me to Indonesia. So this is about the size of a carry on suitcase. And basically every day I would go to a different person's home — someone would host me for the day — and volunteers would come in and I would take images of their spleens.

CO: How often do you find this that a group of people or civilization develops or evolves in order to suit a particular kind of occupation or lifestyle?

MI: Yeah, we see sometimes people evolving to environments like the Tibetans adapting to the high altitudes of the Himalayas. But here we have kind of a different example because the Bajau are creating these conditions and imposing on themselves these tremendous physiological stresses, which are causing their bodies in turn to evolve.

CO: Does this tell you anything about our about other kinds of evolution? What can you learn, what can you take away, what can we take away from this that might present us understand maybe how we're going to survive our changing environment?

MI: Yeah so it's it tells us that evolution is very much still happening in modern humans, which is very exciting to know. But I think an important thing to keep in mind is that this study was possible because we have this small isolated population and a lot of populations like this are actually under a lot of different threats and they're starting to disappear. And so it tells us that when those populations disappear, it's not only a loss culturally, but could also be a loss in terms of what we can learn from them genetically speaking.

CO: We will leave it there, it's fascinating. Thank you.

MI: Thank you.

JD: Melissa Ilardo is a post-doctoral researcher in the Department of Molecular Medicine at the University of Utah. When she did this study though, she was working at the University of Copenhagen. We reached her in Salt Lake City. And we do have more on this on our website.

[Music: Industrial Pop]

Newfoundland Boat Rescue

JD: The water was dangerously cold. The boat was dangerously out of control but he jumped in anyway. Matthew Fleming is a 21-year-old hardware store worker in the small community of St. Vincent's in Newfoundland. On Tuesday he was driving past Holyrood Pond when he saw a man being flung from his boat. He hit the brakes. Mr. Fleming spoke with CBC reporter Andrew Sampson in St. Vincent's about the rescue.

SOUNDCLIP

MATTHEW FLEMING: Put on a life jacket and I took off on the clothes and I jumped into the pond and I swam and I got the onto the back of his hood and then I swam all the way back in.

ANDREW SAMPSON: How did you come across him here?

MF: Well, like I was with my boss dropping off some wood and I seen him in the boat and I seen the boat going around in circles and I was like What the heck. And then I seen something fly over out of the boat and then I seen someone splash. And so I stopped the truck stopped my boss and he was here and we ran back to his shed and got a life jacket and I got the life jacket and a rope and I ran down to the beach and I took everything off and I swam right out I got him. I asked him if he was OK and stuff and he couldn't swim because it was too cold, I guess, and he had his arm hurt or something. So I just grabbed onto his hood and I swam backwards all the way into the shore and then we all lifted him onto the shore until the ambulance came.

AS: And how far did you have to swim to get to him?

MF: I was probably 30 to 40 feet out in the water.

AS: Were you swimming for a little while?

MF: For about five-ten minutes.

AS: Five to ten minutes. Holy cow you must be a pretty strong swimmer?

MF: And tell me that felt when you entered the water, it must have been freezing cold?

AS: So cold. I ran out of breath half the way out, you know, and I just kept on going anyway so I had no other choice to go.

MF: Did you worry at all that you might not be able to bring him back?

AS: No, I never worried about that at all. I had it in my head that I was getting him back to shore and there was no questions about that.

MF: And so when you saw it was the boat still moving around?

AS: The boat was still moving around while he was in the water.

MF: So could he have potentially been hit by the boat there?

AS: Yes he could have.

MF: Did that sort of ramp up your pressure to get that life jacket and get in there fast?

AS: It did. I yelled at him before I got into the chopper and asked him if he was okay but he screamed out like get the boat, get the boat. So I just off with my pants, I had a pair of shorts on, luckily had a pair of shorts on and I jumped into the water and grabbed onto his hoodie and swam him back in.

MF: And now you're at work?

AS: And now I'm at work.

MF: See me, if that was me, I would've been like OK I think I'm going to take the day off work.

AS: No, I can't take the day off, needed to make some money.

MF: Does it feel weird. I mean, you saved this man's life?

MF: Feels good actually, feels kind of good.

JD: Local hero Matthew Fleming speaking to CBC reporter Andrew Sampson in St Vincent's, Newfoundland.

Kanye Trump Endorsement

JD: First Shania Twain, now Kanye West earlier this week Ms. Twain told the Guardian that she would have voted for U.S. president Donald Trump saying that quote “Even though he was offensive, he seemed honest” unquote. Today, Mr. West offered a similar sentiment about the president but from a different perspective. He tweeted quote “You don't have to agree with Trump but the mob can't make me not love him. We are both dragon energy. He is my brother. I love everyone. I don't agree with everything anyone does. That's what makes us individuals and we have the right to independent thought unquote” now. I don't know what dragon energy is exactly or how one comes to be it and I doubt Mr. Trump knows that either — but he sure does know enough to cash in on any endorsement, no matter how obscure, from an internationally renowned rapper. And so he quickly responded quote “Thank you Kanye. Very cool.” That's a quote of course.

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April 26, 2018 episode transcript

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