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The AIH Transcript for April 11, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight…

CO: How the West will be won over. Alberta Premier Rachel Notley tells us that if the Prime Minister agrees the Trans Mountain pipeline is in the national interest, it's time for him to put the financial squeeze on B.C. to make it happen.

JD: Near missiles. U.S. President Donald Trump's tweets about targeting Syria suggest he's ready to take Emmanuel Macron’s advice. So we asked one of the French president's MPs what kind of reprisals to expect.

CO: A site for Shore eyes. If Mitzi Shore saw you do stand up and gave you the green light you were laughing. And tonight one comic remembers her experience with the late legendary owner of L.A.’s Comedy Store.

JD: A big stumble on his trip. While the crown prince of Saudi Arabia is visiting France, lawyers filed suit against him on behalf of activists in Yemen.

CO: Driven to tears. To improve safety on the road Dutch authorities put down rumble strips that play a tune when cars go over them. But the noisy musical vibrations create bad vibes for nearby residents.

JD: And…Hitting hard rock bottom. A camping trip comes to a grinding halt for a group of heavy metal fans when the police show up to interrupt what they thought was a dark ritual, only to find a bright campfire. As It Happens: The Wednesday Edition. Radio that figures this is the way the trip ends not with a head bang — but a whimper

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Part 1: Rachel Notley, Keswick dental disaster, Black metal campers

Rachel Notley

Guest: Rachel Notley

JD: Rachel Notley's pipeline problem is to the west of her. Today however, she went east to push for a solution. The Alberta premier was in Toronto to ask the federal finance minister to take action on the Trans Mountain pipeline. The project would pump product from Alberta's oil sands to a terminal in Burnaby, British Columbia. But the B.C. government is not keen. And now the company behind the project says it is getting cold feet. So Premier Notley is warning that B.C. might be pushing us towards a constitutional crisis. We reached Alberta Premier Rachel Notley in Toronto before her meeting with the Federal Finance Minister.

CO: Premier Notley, are we really facing a constitutional crisis over this pipeline?

ALBERTA PREMIER RACHEL NOTLEY: You know, I think that we are starting to get there. I mean, what we have here is a pipeline that was approved under the authority of the federal government absolutely in alignment with the division of the powers of our Constitution. And we have a provincial government that is making vague threats to engage in sort of endless legal explorations of the sort of borders of their rights in a way to create a level of investor uncertainty, which is going to fundamentally undermine the project which was approved by the federal government.

CO: Why do you call it endless because B.C. Premier John Horgan has said the federal process failed to consider B.C.’s interests. He is attempting to seek a court opinion on whether the province has, his province has, the right to control this jurisdiction. Doesn't this does seem like something that you or any premier might go through?

RN: Well, you know, the fact of the matter is is that the division of powers around inter-provincial economic investments have been in place for 150 years. And the reality is is that the matter is going to the Federal Court of Appeal. We had significant submissions in front of the Federal Court of Appeal last fall, we are waiting for the decision there. We've had questions about the appropriateness of the government of B.C.’s engagement with respect to their environmental obligations. Those matters were heard in November of 2017. We're still waiting for the decisions there. This is yet another front that they are opening, yet another legal front. There have been 14 legal decisions issued on this thing already. The applications started almost ten years ago. I mean, there has to be a point at which we stop coming up with creative questions to inject legal uncertainty.

CO: At the same time Kinder Morgan has been submitting permits, getting permits, from all the various agencies and ministries in B.C. They have 200 permits have already been approved there. That's about a third of what they need. They are in this process and even the President of Kinder Morgan Canada has said he has seen no evidence of political interference in the permitting process. What we're seeing is the British Columbia Premier doing what he told people of B.C. that he would do, which is he would challenge this in court to see what jurisdiction he had. Where do you see the obstruction?

RN: Well, in fact as we said they did go to court with respect to the matter that went before the Federal Court of Appeal last fall. Now what they're talking about doing is opening up a whole new judicial front. They haven't told anybody yet what the question will be and they haven't actually acknowledged that that would be the last judicial front on which they would open up another question. And so what is happening here is that by being in the position they are in and exercising that authority to repeatedly open up new areas where they can fight it in the courts, that what they do then is they just create a level of uncertainty over the whole project, which as I've said before is unending. And I think that that's been quite strategic all along. And unfortunately what the outcome is is that you have the situation that we had on Sunday, where the investors say we can't sustain this level of uncertainty for much longer and then the project ends. And to be clear, if that happens it doesn't just have implications for the billions of dollars in investment in Alberta and the rest of that. But it also has implications in every economic sector across the country, because people have to start wondering, well when is a decision a decision, and when can we bank on that and when can we invest on the basis of that, and when is it not a decision? That's what we're faced with right now.

CO: OK, let's look at what we're faced with right now. What you're referring to is that Kinder Morgan, a Houston, Texas-based company has given this deadline of May 31^st, six weeks away, it's coming very, very quickly. They're playing hardball saying you solve these these problems or we're out. Isn't there some place to challenge the company itself say whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, we’re going through a process here. You're getting your permits. We have legal cases that are before the courts. Why can't you just take this arbitrary deadline off and allow us to try and work this out? Do you think the company is trying to force a constitutional crisis in this country?

RN: Well, I think the fact of the matter is is that they're at the point now where if they're going to move forward they're going to have to significantly increase their investments. So the amount of sunk costs go up dramatically. So it makes perfect sense that investors would say it's one thing to invest 20 or 30 million dollars a month, it's quite another thing to invest a 100 or 200 million dollars a month when we still don't have a clear answer and we don't have a clear path.

CO: You have suggested that public money may go into the project. Your province may just buy this pipeline. Is that a reality?

RN: As I've said before, we have basically three fronts on which we are working. One is economic pressure and fiscal pressure on the province of B.C. One is trying to more effectively assert what we already know to be the jurisdiction of the government of Canada. And of course, the third is this whole issue of reducing investor risk. And so there's a number of models that would allow us to do it up to and including us taking a public position in the pipeline. So as I say our officials are looking at all of those models and we are definitely considering the one you just referenced.

CO: One thing you mentioned about the fiscal pressure on B.C. and now this is the suggestion that you may actually affect gas exports to B.C., which would inflate the price of gas for people in British Columbia. Premier Horgan is very upset about that. Would you actually go that far?

RN: You know, I think at the end of the day what we need to do is we need, in the province of Alberta, to allocate and distribute our own oil and gas resources in a way that can maximize the returns that we receive for those resources. So where those resources are shipped, how many of those resources are shipped and to what market, all, I think, play into how we can strategically reduce the differential that we're currently subjected to and other problems with respect to the price that we're receiving. And, you know, one consequence may be to impact the price of gasoline in the Lower Mainland. But again, you know, according to B.C. this is not a product that anyone should have anything to do with. So presumably they're already on that path anyway.

CO: And what fiscal pressure would you like to see come out of Ottawa?

RN: Well, I think that's up for Ottawa to decide. And the question is: How hard are they going to fight to preserve the integrity of the decision that they made under their clearly constitutionally protected jurisdiction?

CO: Should they be looking at transfer payments?

RN: You know, I don't know. I mean, certainly one thing that we have already talked about publicly just through the pan-Canadian framework there are transfer payments through that mechanism. They've already talked about withholding those from Saskatchewan. And quite frankly we've all linked this pipeline to the national climate change plan. So I would think that that would be a reasonable approach to consider for B.C., but frankly they have they have many, many other avenues as well.

CO: Just one final question. You know that there are protests in British Columbia, people who are willing to take to the barricades, gathering steam, untold numbers, hundreds who are willing to face charges, even criminal charges to obstruct it. They're passionate, they're committed. Do you think that the Trudeau government, do you think you have the political stomach to see police arresting mass numbers of people at standoffs and blockades?

RN: I think that at the end of the day what we have to be able to do is assert and adhere to the rule of law.

CO: And so the rule of law, it can mean that a lot of people end up in jail. You're okay with that?

RN: Well, I mean, I think that is going to be their choice certainly not mine. I think we all know what the rule of law is. Canada is a country where we respect the law and where I think the progressive moderate majority tends to rule the day and I hope that that's who rules the day here as well. I mean, in our province we have just come through a recession where well over 100,000 people have lost their jobs. And I say to anybody who is so passionate about this pipeline that they need to go into the homes and look the people in the eyes who have gone through that experience and say that they have really turned their mind to finding the best path forward. And I think that were they to be in that position of having to talk to those people, look at their families, sit at their kitchen table and ask themselves whether they have found the most moderate path forward, that many of them would second guess that. And that's what brought us to where we are. And at the end of the day it’s that kind of conversation that allows Canada to succeed. And I'm hoping that will happen this time.

CO: Premier Notley, thank you for your time.

RN: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

RN: Bye.

JD: Rachel Notley as the premier of Alberta. We reached her though, in Toronto. In Ottawa the Trudeau government's willingness to pressure B.C. into agreeing to the Trans Mountain was taking heat this afternoon from Premier Notley's fellow New Democrat, federal leader Jagmeet Singh.

SOUNDCLIP

JAGMEET SINGH: They are talking about putting punitive measures, they're threatening sanctions, they’re threatening to cut healthcare transfers. That's not a way forward. The way forward is joint reference question. Instead of threatening, instead of sanctioning, instead of using these sort of menacing acts this is a way forward that unites instead of dividing.

REPORTER: Do you think this pipeline should be built? Yes or no? Do you think this pipeline should be built?

JS: Well, I've made my opposition very clear based on the fact that the process didn't respect the concerns of Indigenous peoples. Didn't respect the science and the scientific evidence, it wasn't an independent decision-based process. So I've made my concerns very clear. What I'm talking about today is a way forward, a way forward that respects all people involved, that ensures that we don't go down the path of continuing division, which is what the Liberals are proposing, that doesn't go down a path of threatening to cut health transfers, that doesn't go down a path of continuing — that does it continue a conflict between Alberta and British Columbia. What I'm proposing is a path forward that is a path that actually allows people to come together.

JD: That was federal NDP leader Jagmeet Singh speaking to reporters in Ottawa this afternoon.

[Music: Garage Band]

Keswick Dental Disaster

Guest: Lee Schwaderer

JD: One Lee Schwaderer went in for dental surgery he knew it was going to be a drastic procedure — but he had no idea just how drastic. In February of 2015, the Ontario man needed several teeth extracted. The dental surgeon extracted every single tooth in his mouth, which was not the plan — at all. Now Lee Schwaderer is suing. We reached Mr. Schwaderer in Keswick.

CO: Lee, what has it been like for you living without your teeth?

LEE SCHWADERER: It's been very difficult for me and my missus because she has to fix things that I can chew with my gums pretty much. It’s been very difficult.

CO: And you have no teeth of your own left?

LS: I do have a uppers and lowers but they don't fit properly. When there was a lot of damage to my lower right jaw when Dr. Moore pulled out all of my teeth, so Dr. Holmes at Mount Sinai had to fix my my lower right jaw. And he tells me I can never wear lower dentures again because the jaw just won't take it. I'll have some uppers but — there I go whistling again when I talk — no teeth. So that's about it.

CO: So you have the denture for your upper teeth, but there is one for your lower but doesn't fit?

LS: Both of them do not fit properly.

CO: And what does it mean for eating food?

LS: Most of it has to be soft, something I can chew it and my gums.

CO: And how is it to talk?

LS: It's ok. I've been able to practice a bit so people can understand me. Been going on for four years.

CO: Let's go back four years to this procedure you had. What were you going to have an operation for? What was the intention?

LS: Playing sports and construction I had had head injuries that lead to seizures. So I was taking Dilantin to control seizures but it rotted my teeth away, especially the uppers. So the plan was to pull the uppers, save all but two on the bottom. And so that was the plan. But all the teeth got pulled out.

CO: When you woke up what did you learn?

LS: As I was coming out of the anesthesia the doctor’s leaning over me. He said “I don't know what I was thinking, I pulled all of your teeth out.” Kind of matter-of-factly. I don't know —how can you apologize for that? It's like me if I build a table for someone and okay it only has three legs, is that good? It's just been — I dream this on occasion, him standing over me — I’m starting to get upset now. Him standing over me like a joke. I don't know what I was thinking I pulled all your teeth out.

CO: I guess he wrote a handwritten note at the bottom of your progress report on that date. He wrote “In error I removed all of his teeth. I apologised several times. No excuses, I'm sorry. I said to them that I’d cover the cost of the lower denture.”

LS: Yes, so matter-of-factly.

CO: But did he ever explain what — like was it a little oops — or did he explain what happened, what he thought he was supposed to do?

LS: No, he never did. But doggone it, there's no excuse for that. I just don't want it to happen to someone else. That's the reason I'm pursuing this. It has not been fun.

CO: This dentist, did you know him well? Ford Moore, was he someone you knew?

LS: No, I didn't know him. I was — sorry sometimes I can’t talk. I was referred to him by our dentist here in Keswick.

CO: Have you gone back to your dentist to ask him why he would refer you to this doctor?

LS: They don't want to talk to me. They know we're in litigation.

CO: And you're in litigation because you are suing for, well for assault, battery, breach of contract, negligence and damages, including for you and for your wife, is that right?

LS: That's correct.

CO: But you also want to make a point. What is the point you want to make?

LS: Well, like I said, I just don't want it to happen to someone else. I can take it better than most people. Heck, I'm ex-army. I've taken pain all my life. But to have this happen to anyone that's not like me? I don't know. They’d probably go goofy.

CO: What's it done to your life, your quality of life.

LS: How would you like to go to a restaurant and say ‘Oh gee can you please puree everything for me?’ We can’t go to restaurants anymore.

CO: Is there any particular food you really miss the most?

LS: Sure would be nice and bite into corn on the cob, or bite into anything, a burger or anything. I can't bite an apple I can't bite a — I can't bite. So I miss some things but at least I'm still above the dirt.

CO: Is he still at the clinic where you went to get the surgery?

LS: He still has an office. I guess he rents or pays time at the hospital. He has his own office still in Newmarket.

CO: And he's still practicing?

LS: As far as I know. I've had no contact with him since that day.

CO: And he said he would finance your dentures to replace the healthy teeth that he removed. Did he ever do that?

LS: No, he did not.

CO: And as far as you know is there anything anyone could do, any kind of reconstructive surgery that you could get in order to be able to restore your ability to eat properly?

LS: According to Dr. Holmes, who fixed my lower right jaw, I can never have lower dentures, so I'm trusting him, that’s what he says. I take him at his word.

CO: Well Lee, this is just an awful story. I'm sorry for this, this must be just terrible to live with.

LS: I wish I could get him into a boxing ring and maybe settle something.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: Yeah, well lots of people have lost teeth in boxing rings.

LS: Yup.

CO: Lee, I appreciate speaking with you. And again, I'm really sorry for what’s happened.

LS: I appreciate you taking time to talk to me.

CO: Take care of yourself.

LS: Thank you very much. Goodbye.

JD: We reached Lee Schwaderer in Keswick, Ontario. Mr. Schwaderer has filed a lawsuit seeking more than a $1,000,000 in damages after a dental surgeon mistakenly extracted all his teeth during a procedure. We reached out to Dr. Ford Moore but he declined to comment as the allegations are before the courts. The Southlake Regional Health Centre responded to us with this statement quote “For any patient to experience surgery that is more invasive than they were expecting is very stressful and upsetting. We take any complaints from patients very seriously and we do thorough investigations of patient complaints.” unquote. We have more on this on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Black metal campers

Guest: David Henderson

JD: David Henderson was just hoping to have a nice quiet camping weekend. Mr. Henderson along with two friends, their kids and a dog picked a quiet island on the Loch Leven in Scotland. It's the kind of thing that they had done lots of times before. And there wasn't much particularly unusual about the campers except for the black leather clothing and the face paint. And that was probably the reason someone called the cops. We reached David Henderson in Glasgow.

CO: David, what were you doing when the police showed up at your campsite?

DAVID HENDERSON: We didn't know who it was because we were on one island and we were all sitting around the fire. We were telling ghost stories, the kids as well had their ghost stories, which were quite entertaining. So we just started seeing all these lights, especially they were combing the other island and we really were — we didn't know who or what it was. So we just thought ‘Hey wait a minute what's going on?’ So we put out the fire and we were kind of watching them, they couldn't see us and we were ready to evacuate and put the kids in the boat and get the hell out of there. But as they came closer, because the dog was barking we had been spotted by this point, and I could hear radios and whatnot I was pretty sure it wasn't anything malicious, you know.

CO: So what was it?

DH: It was a very specialized Loch rescue team that had all the specialist equipment.

CO: But who were they rescuing?

DH: They were after us because — what had happened was that the woman gave us a row wouldn’t let us camp on the first island. She was angry with us, we were quite cheeky to her to be honest. So we were winding her up. So she must have assumed — she saw three guys, one wearing corpse paint, the kids were all wearing black and had cloaks and had corpse as well, I guess she assumed we kidnapped them and were taking them off. And because there were only two cars left in the carpark and we didn't come back that's why, I think that's why she phoned the police.

CO: But first of all, what's corpse paint?

DH: Corpse paint is like war paint you wear, you know, in black metal because we're all black metal fans. So Pan plays — well he used to play in my band, he was the original drummer from Ravencult, which is a Greek black metal band. And, in fact, he's coming over tomorrow to play with my band. So usually when we play live we put on corpse paint. You know, in it's just fitting in with the kind of atmosphere of the music we're playing, along with the clothes and whatnot, you know.

CO: So this rescue this rescue operation for you was because they thought that you were kidnappers or some sort of a cult?

DH: Yeah, they took the kids away from us first, you know, and they put them in a boat and then they dealt with us and took us in a separate boat. So they were already separating the kids from us and when we got to the shore the police officer had already phoned Natty’s mother and he explained that he did phone Natty who was with a bunch of inebriated guys, which wasn't true. We'd only had a couple of beers each and they all wearing black and had strange makeup on. And the irony of the situation was Natty’s mother was just the pub and she was drunker than we were she, and she was like “Yeah, I know them. They're my friends and I know she's camping with them.” I guess they're just not used to seeing black metal guys camping in that part of Scotland, they’re a bunch of Schusters. Schusters is a word for people who live up north.

CO: Natty is it the little girl. How old is she?

DH: Natty is 10 years old.

CO: OK, so when the police rounded you all up, your camping night was over, they took you back over. What was the scene there? I guess there were a lot of vehicles.

DH: It was madness. So there was about four fire engines, an enormous amount of police cars and ambulances. They sat us in an ambulance and were putting digital thermometers in our ears as they were interrogating us and taking our hands and taking our pulse. It was very bizarre. It was like something of a movie or something. We just couldn't stop laughing to be honest.

CO: Well, at what point did they figure out that well, OK you're just campers, you're just heavy metal campers?

DH: I think they’d already figured it out. They were so embarrassed that they couldn't leave us on the island. They’d radioed the rescue team to take us off the island ASAP. By this point they’d already smashed our car windows. Because they told us they were looking for a suicide note. God knows. I don't think it was a full moon that night but the police certainly didn't have anything better to do. They already knew at that point everything was fine because they would have phoned Ross’ wife and Natty’s mother by that point.

CO: Where did you sleep?

DH: We put the kids in the back of my car. The kids went in the back of my car and there were loads and loads of blankets. So they were fine. But we slept, the three of us slept in the other car with the two broken windows and it was a really cold night. So that was the irony of the situation, they took us from a place where we had our fire, we had a tepee, we had our food and we were all comfortable everything was fine and they left us in that place where it was too wet to set up the teepee, there's no wood, and they smashed the windows of the cars. Obviously, because we had had a few beers each we couldn't drive. The police knew that as well, so we were stranded there.

CO: What a crazy night. OK David, happy camping in the future. I hope it doesn't happen again.

DH: Yeah, well, you know, it doesn't stop us.

CO: Take care of.

DH: All right. Cheers.

CO: David Anderson is a musician plays on a black metal band called Nicktopia. We reached him in Glasgow.

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Part 2: France on Syria, Mitzi Shore Obit

France on Syria

Guest: Delphine O

JD: Emmanuel Macron appears to have made his case. The French president has been calling for international action since the Syrian regime's suspected chemical weapons attack killed more than 40 people in the Eastern Ghouta region. U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May seems to agree. And this morning U.S. President Donald Trump tweeted a warning that missiles might soon be on their way to target Syria. Delfine O was a foreign affairs adviser to President Macron. She now serves as a member of the French National Assembly with the En Marche Party. We reached Ms. O. In Paris

CO: Ms. O, why has President Macron taken the lead in pushing for military action on Syria?

DELPHINE O: We want to make good on our word and we’re going to show, both our allies and our enemies, that we are serious. We mean serious business when we set a red line. As you know, President Macron actually said on two occasions that we as France, we would set a red line in terms of chemical attacks by the regime in Syria. And you might remember that actually the same red line was set by President Obama in 2013. But at that time actually the U.S. didn't sort of keep its promise that it would intervene if there was to be a chemical attack by the Assad regime. But Macron announced a few days ago that we're thinking about intervention. The final decision has not been made yet and meanwhile obviously we're consulting with our allies the U.S. and U.K.

CO: At the same time the Assad regime, Bashar al-Assad knows that these consequences come and so he has said there were no chemical weapons attacks. There's no evidence of it. That he's even said that he would allow inspectors in to have access to the site. How do you know for sure that there were chemical weapons used?

DO: Well obviously, I mean, I think all our intelligence services are gathering evidence. I don't have access to that kind of evidence but I trust them and we should be reminded that Russia, yesterday vetoed for the sixth time a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for the setting up of an independent investigative body into the chemical weapons attack. So if Russia is actually blocking the will to set up this body and this investigation, there's just no way we can prove anything. Meanwhile obviously we'll be relying on the evidence gathered by our intelligence services.

CO: Medical professionals are saying that there are just hundreds of cases they're still treating. They've been able to actually get access to some of the people being affected.

DO: I think between 40 and 70 dead people. Obviously the White Helmets were gathering evidence and rescuing more people and hundreds of people have been gassed or have been victims to this chlorine gas.

CO: We heard — this morning of course there's a tweet from President Trump. This is what he had to say. “Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia because they will be coming nice a new and smart. You shouldn't be partners with a gas killing animal who kills his people and enjoys it.” What kind of partnership do you think Mr. Macron will have with Donald Trump if you should actually endeavor to have a military strike on Syria?

DO: Well, I mean, I read President Trump's tweet as everybody else and you and I and pretty much everybody else who's watching foreign policy and international relations know his style, which is very specific, very particular, obviously. I think we can trust both the French and the British and the American intelligence services to gather the evidence. You will notice that President Macron has not rushed to announce an intervention. He said we will think about it, we will take the time to gather evidence to verify the nature of the attack. So this is why he announced yesterday that we will announce our final decision in a couple of days. So I expect it to happen before the weekend or during the weekend once we have consulted with the U.S. with the U.K. and with our intelligence services.

CO: How will France see itself as part of any kind of collective action, any kind of coalition? Would you want to see NATO as part of that? The concern being that if you don't have a large coalition, then it starts to look a lot like Iraq.

DO: We should actually get back to the words of President Macron. I think there might be a temptation to over interpret what he said. He didn't say that we want to launch a full scale attack on Syria. This is never what we intended. He said, we set a red line, the red line is the chemical attack, if it is proven that there has been a chemical attack by the regime we will retaliate. But the retaliation will be I would say circumscribed. Yesterday he said we would probably target chemical facilities or military forces facilities. So there's no talk about putting boots on the ground, there isn't talk for large scale military intervention. The idea is not to win the war because we know the war that can be only won through a political solution. This is why we're supporting the inter-Syrian talks that are happening right now at the same time in Vienna. But this is to deter the Assad regime from using again chemical weapons.

CO: Sure. But we did see President Trump launch airstrikes last year, it had no real effect on Syria. They continued and are using, allegedly using, chemical weapons once again. So what do you think can actually be accomplished? It doesn't seem to have the effect that you're saying that Mr. Macron would like to have that with if he did have a circumscribed strike on Syria.

DO: I think the circumstances are a little bit different. The U.S. strike took everybody by surprise. This is a little bit different regarding the French case that we gave several warnings before, we said we’d do something if something happens. And so there's sort of a chain of logical events. The decisions made by the Trump administration can be erratic sometimes. And so at least there's some logic in what we do in France with what France would do more than what the U.S. would do.

CO: There is a very big difference this time, isn't there, in that the role that Russia is playing in Syria is much larger? It’s a far more tight partnership with Bashar al-Assad. So we're hearing what the Russians are saying, if there is a strike on Syria they will regard it as a provocation, that that there will be consequences for something like that. Isn't that a danger of President Macron or anyone intervening at this point, that Russia is very involved in this war now?

DO: You're right. We have to find the right balance and it's a very delicate balance. And unfortunately I think in the eyes of this kind of regime, if you don't use force at some point, if you don't use strength at some point, you're not taken seriously. But this doesn't mean that we have to give up at the same time on diplomatic routes. The fact that we might intervene militarily sort of like a surgical strike, which I hope is what happens, I think it will give us a more solid position in the political negotiations that are happening at the same time.

CO: All right, we'll be watching. Ms. O, thank you.

DO: Thank you very much. Goodbye.

CO: Good night.

JD: Delphine O is a former foreign affairs adviser to French President Emmanuel Macron. She is currently serving as a member of the French National Assembly with the president's En Marche party. We reached Ms. O in Paris.

[Music: Guitar Plucks]

Mark Zuckerberg Congress

JD: It is no surprise that Facebook is watching what we post. But many people suspect the site is also listening in on us without our consent. That topic came up today during CEO Mark Zuckerberg’s second day of testimony in front of U.S. lawmakers in Washington. So here is Congressman Larry Bucshon on with the question and Mr. Zuckerberg with his response.

SOUNDCLIP

LARRY BUCSHON: If you don't — you're not listening to us on the phone, who is and do you have specific contracts with these companies that will provide data that is being acquired verbally through our phones or now through things like Alexa or other products?

MARK ZUCKERBERG: Congressman we're not collecting any information verbally on the microphone and we don't have contracts with anyone else who is. The only time that we might use the microphone is when you're recording a video or doing something where you intentionally are trying to record audio. But we don't have anything that is trying to listen to what's going on in the background.

JD: That was Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg responding to a question from U.S. Congressman Larry Bucshon today.

[Music: Whimsical Tones]

Mitzi Shore Obit

Guest: Tammy Pescatelli

JD: For people trying to make it as stand-ups in Los Angeles the Comedy Store was often the first stop to stardom. Today, Mitzi Shore, the legendary owner of that Sunset Strip comedy venue died. She was 87 years old. Ms. Shore helped launch the careers of some comedians you may have heard of — Robin Williams, David Letterman, Roseanne Barr. Not to mention Chelsea Handler, Whitney Cummings and Chris Rock. I could go on all night. In its heyday comics would line up on the sidewalk outside the club hoping to audition with the gatekeeper. Tammy Pescatelli is one of the comedians who made the cut. We reached her in Meadville, Pennsylvania.

CO: Tammy, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

TAMMY PESCATELLI: Thank you. It's not just my loss though, I think it's all of comedy. She definitely was the mother of all comedians.

CO: What did Mitzi Shore mean to you?

TS: Well personally for me, the Comedy Store was my Mecca. And so when I moved to Los Angeles I waited to get an opportunity to audition for the Comedy Store. The first time I went to audition for the Comedy Store she wasn't able to make it. She was just beginning some of her disease. And the second time she passed me and called me over to sit next to her. I can only liken it to having an audience with the Pope. Immediately all the people who paid no attention to me when I walked onto the parking lot at the Comedy Store when I first got there, then talked — What did she say? What did she say? And I said well she told me that I will be now be a paid regular here at the store and to call in for spots. And it immediately elevated me to, you know, grandiose status. She was just an amazing woman.

CO: So tell what changed for you after Mitzi Shore got to sit beside her and said that to you?

TS: The camaraderie with the comics. You knew that you were now part of a family that had spawned such amazing names like Robin Williams and Richard Pryor and Sam Kinison and Roseanne. And she would talk about them as if, you know, you were now part of that elite class. And we had a place that we could fail. We had a place that we could shine. I was always welcome there. When September 11th came and there was such a horrible time for this country all the comics were gathered at the store. Not necessarily to go up but just because we were alone without our families and the Comedy Store family was the main one that counted.

CO: There doesn't seem to be a single name in comedy that didn't get their start at the Comedy Store. Robin Williams, David Letterman, Richard Pryor, Jay Leno, Jim Carrey, Chris Rock, Roseanne Barr, Garry Shandling. I mean, it's just extraordinary that many people we all know and who have made us laugh, who are so amazingly talented would all have gone through this legendary woman's assistance. How did she do it? How did Mitzi Shore spot the talent?

TS: I think that she was just a bright light in a dark place. I think she was able to believe in someone. If she gave you her pass, she allowed you to even fail. Whatever it is, suppose you had these spurts — comics that I could name that would have spurts where they were not funny or going to tragedies and she just didn't let you go. She made them almost like a commune and it was a neat place and she would help you when you needed. I remember saying ‘Hey I have a root canal that I need done and I don't have the money,’ and she's like ‘Well I have a friend that's a dentist and he'll do it for you for the Comedy Store rate.’ What that meant was is that he did it for nothing because she supplied him with tickets to whoever he needed to see. Amazing.

CO: Now in the early days it was Mitzi Shore who you had to make laugh, you had to. She could make or break a comedian but you had to impress her. How hard was it to make Mitzi Shore laugh?

TS: Well, you know, what’s funny, she laughed through my entire set and on my audition and I was so nervous that maybe, because I've heard of stories where she laughed at people but she didn't pass them because she was laughing because perhaps they had lifted other people's material or she was laughing at the audacity of it. So you never knew. You know, she just never let it go. She always was part of it. Until the very, very day that she couldn't be there anymore. Mitzi was there, you know? And such a cachet thing because when Mitzi was in charge of the paid regulars and you said you were paid regular at The Comedy Store, that get cachet amongst the other comics everywhere — even some of the bigger names. Jerry Lewis was impressed that I got passed at such a young age by Mitzi Shore.

CO: And then it also opened up other things for you. I think you got onto the Tonight Show bookers immediately saw you with different eyes after Mitzi saw you.

TS: Well, no they had never seen me before. So because of her she put together a showcase and said you need to come see this girl. And she did that for so many of us. And then when I needed a place to showcase after the Montreal Comedy Festival for agents and managers, she opened up her stage for me. So those were the things — and I actually met my husband, who was also a comedian at the Comedy Store, there. And we even had to hide our relationship a little bit from Mitzi because she didn't think love and comedy mixed.

[LAUGHTER]

TS: She said some of the best things. I'll tell you the one the best things that keeps going through my head over and over today. She told me, “You need Hollywood. Hollywood needs you.” And it was so profound and prophetic because once you make people laugh it doesn't really matter where you live.

CO: What's the best advice that Mitzi ever gave you?

TS: Just get on stage.

CO: Just get on the stage?

TS: Yeah, just get on stage. When something was wrong or you were upset, get on stage. Talk about it. That's what she meant. Just get on stage.

CO: What will you miss the most about her?

TS: Her voice. I mean, everybody does an impression of Mitzi’s voice. You know, I'm not very good at impressions but, she had this high pitch voice.

CO: Tammy, thank you so much for telling us about Mitzi Shore.

TS: Rest in peace Mitzi.

JD: We reached stand-Up Tammy Pescatelli in Meadville, Pennsylvania. And as Ms. Pescatelli mentioned, everyone did have a Mitzi Shore impression — and that included Robin Williams.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBIN WILLIAMS: Mitzi, how are you doing girl? I haven't seen you in a while.

ROBIN WILLIAMS AS MITZI SHORE: I'm going to have to work on your voice again. It's been a while. Robin tell our guest he’s going on at 11:00.

JD: Robin Williams doing a very brief impression of Comedy Store owner Mitzi Shore who died today. She was 87 years old.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Singing Rumble Strips

SOUNDCLIP

CHOIR SINGING THE ANTHEM OF FRIESLAND

JD: The anthem of Friesland, a province in the northern Netherlands. A song that reverberates through the very souls of its residents. A song that literally reverberated through the cars of people driving on the N357 Road. Recently the Dutch Ministry of Infrastructure and cultural affairs installed special rumble strips on that road. The idea was to encourage people to drive safely and promote the region. If you drove at the appropriate speed the rumble strips would play the anthem of Friesland, which from the interior of your car sounded like this. Listen closely.

SOUNDCLIP

FAINT SOUND OF THE ANTHEM OF FRIESLAND FROM THE INSIDE OF A CAR

JD: Stirring, stirring. Really creates a warm feeling inside — not outside though. Outside it's created terrible feelings, because what drivers heard from within their vehicles was not what neighbours heard from within their yards. At best what they heard was a loud distorted version of the anthem created by a single vehicle coupled with the Doppler effect.

SOUNDCLIP

DISTORTED ANTHEM OF FRIESLAND

JD: Like a tired ice cream truck. At worst what they heard was this.

SOUNDCLIP

SOUND OF CARS PASSING AND FAINT SOUNDS OF ANTHEM OF FRIESLAND

JD: Like a very, very tired ice cream truck. That was the cacophony created by multiple vehicles driving different speeds in both directions over the musical rumble strips. The sound everyone living nearby heard every time cars went by. The strips were installed on Friday. The singing road officially opened on Monday. On Tuesday it was officially closed and the strips were removed. The total cost for the whole short lived project 80,000 euros, about $124,000 Canadian. As the local minister of infrastructure told the BBC quote, “The idea is good but a lot of people said it was a lot of noise and that they couldn't sleep anymore. Now it will be quiet and people will enjoy life again,” unquote. Got to appreciate the quick response on the ministry's part. But then I guess you do have to tear the strips off a road when everyone's tearing a strip off you.

[Music: 90s Hip-Hop]

Pizza Thief Job Offer

JD: Nicolas Kynigos is in the business of pizza and forgiveness. Mr. Kynigos owns Nicolas and Maria's Pizza Pasta and Donair shop in downtown Vernon, British Columbia. And over the past week-and-a-half it has been broken into three times. But instead of getting angry Mr. Kynigos is offering the burglars a job. Here he is talking with Chris Walker, host of CBC's Daybreak South in Kelowna.

SOUNDCLIP

NICOLAS KYNIGOS: Well, it's very simple as a matter of rocks. I mean, they just keep throwing rocks through my windows and I'm trying to get any kind of cast that that's available basically. They're not touching anything inside.

CHRIS WALKER: OK, so it was a smash-and-grab. Have they stolen much cash?

NK: Maybe around $200 in total in all the different times. Five, looneys and this kind of stuff.

CW: OK and how much does the damage cost you?

NK: Close to 5,000 bucks. The first time they walked out with the whole cash register. It's a matter of money, I guess.

CW: Right. But, you know, even so most business owners would be trying to hunt down the thieves. But you have a novel solution, you want to offer them a job. What's that all about?

NK: Well, the thing is, you know, they need money obviously, right. So the thing is, I mean, needing money is one thing, but we all earn our money that’s society. So forgive and give him a chance of getting a job and get his life back basically is what it is.

CW: You haven't heard from him yet though, have you?

NK: No I haven't. And then again I don't even know if you could even afford a cell phone, right. So we don't know what the situation is.

CO: And Nicolas, I understand you like to fundraise for good causes that you your business and now people are coming and offer you help for your expenses. What's it like to be on the receiving end of this for once?

NK: Oh, it's beautiful. Lots of love in the air, right. From being discouraged and everything else, and then being mentally drained. And my wife says ‘let's get out of here and stuff like this.’ It’s just giving me a lot of positive energy.

JD: That was Nicolas Kynigos speaking with CBC's Chris Walker on Daybreak South about a recent string of break-ins and his response to them at his restaurant in Vernon, British Columbia.

[Music: Upbeat Banjo]

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Part 3: Mohammed Bin Salman Lawsuit, Winnipeg Urban Reserve, Taylor Ruck Record

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Mohammed Bin Salman Lawsuit

Guest: Laurence Greig

JD: Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is wrapping up a three day tour of France. He has dined with French President Emmanuel Macron at Élysée Palace. He has secured drafts of contracts between French and Saudi companies worth approximately $18 billion. But his ongoing charm offensive was knocked off course by an event he hadn't scheduled. A lawsuit filed in French courts by a Yemeni human rights group accusing him of complicity in torture in the war in Yemen. The conflict in Yemen has killed more than 10,000 people. It has displaced more than three million. Laurence Greig is one of the French lawyers who helped file the case. We reached her in Paris.

CO: Ms. Greig, what did Mohammed bin Salman do according to this lawsuit?

LAURENCE GREIG: According to the plaintiff, there is the existence of indiscriminate shelling by the coalition led by Saudi Arabia in Yemen affecting civilian populations there, and that can be qualified as acts of torture. Also, the complainant accused the coalition of depriving millions of people basic necessities due to the indiscriminate bombing and also the naval blockade of ports in Yemen.

CO: When you say the coalition, the other partners that Saudi Arabia has in its war in Yemen, that would include the United States.

LG: Exactly. The coalition is led by Saudi Arabia there are also elements concerning the other states, members of the coalition.

CO: And so what rule did Mohammed bin Salman play in this? What is it alleged that he actually — what role he played?

LG: The complainant accuses him as he was the Minister of Defence at the time Saudi Arabia launched the war in Yemen. He ordered the first bombing on Yemeni territory since March 2015.

CO: But the complainant is not just saying that there was this indiscriminate bombing. They're accusing him of complicity in torture in Yemen. What is that in reference to?

LG: Yes, because the indiscriminate attacks can be qualified as torture according to the convention on torture. And that's what gives the French courts universal jurisdiction to investigate the attack.

CO: And just point out, the complainant is the Legal Center for Rights and Development, is that right?

LG: Yes, that's right. It's a Yemeni human rights group based in Sanaa in Yemen.

CO: What can you tell us about the timing of this? Why at this particular time are French courts pursuing Mohammed bin Salman?

LG: Mohammed bin Salman was in France on an official visit, he is supposed to leave France tonight. The French court has jurisdiction — universal jurisdiction to investigate the case the minute the prince is on French soil — that's why we were waiting for his visit to launch the complaint.

CO: So as soon as the Saudi prince, the Saudi crown prince was on French soil you could launch this because France has universal jurisdiction when someone's actually in the country?

LG: Exactly.

CO: Is it possible that he could be arrested before he leaves?

LG: Well, before he's arrested he'd be asked by the investigating church to attend the hearing and just to explain himself. What we hope for is that there is an impartial investigation in some part of the world about the ongoing conflict and the ongoing violation of humanitarian rights. We are waiting for a leader of the Coalition to explain themselves and to give all elements concerning this massive and indiscriminate attacks against civilians.

CO: And do you think it's possible, if at the very least that he would be called to account, he would have to come and testify and explain to a judge — give his case as to what role he played in these human rights violations allegations that took place in Yemen?

LG: The French authorities they could decide whether there is a basis to take further legal action and then to make him attend a hearing or maybe at last to detain him. But justice takes time and hopefully takes time because you have to gather information before you hear someone or you detain him. And even the prince must have the same treatment as anyone.

CO: It's possible that you won't even get him into a court to explain himself. So what what's the purpose of this? What's the point? What do you think you can accomplish by filing this suit in the French court?

LG: Well, yeah we hope at some point there will be a trial and maybe the complaint helps to raise awareness about the conflict and what our leaders do because, you know, also in France, you know, France is also a big arms seller and we hope that this issue, arms trade, humanitarian law violation etc. can be brought to public debates and it could be an example for international justice in general and for all the world leaders who take part in such conflicts. And it's a way to put pressure on world leaders and try to rid the world of impunity around them.

CO: Just finally, Saudi Arabia's response to your lawsuit saying that it's ridiculous and the foreign minister said that the human rights abuses on the part of the Houthi rebels that the coalition is fighting. They say that they are the ones violating human rights law and they said that Saudi Arabia is acting completely within international humanitarian law. What do you say to the foreign minister of Saudi Arabia?

LG: Well, you can say first of all, that it's true we do not deny that. Also the Houti there are also in violation of the International law. But and the other and we also say that we do not agree with the allegation that Saudi Arabia completely complies with its international obligation, especially in terms of humanitarian rights violations.

CO: We will leave it there. We'll follow your case. Ms. Greig, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

LG: Thank you very much.

CO: Good night.

JD: We reached Laurence Greig in Paris.

[Music: Ambient Bass Tones]

The Trial of Sir John A. MacDonald

JD: The calls to pull down statues and rename schools bearing his name continue. And now Sir John MacDonald is being brought to trial for crimes against humanity. It is not a real trial since Canada's first prime minister has been dead for more than 127 years. But tonight on CBC Radio's Ideas, you will hear how two of Canada's top legal minds would argue the case with a former Supreme Court judge presiding. Sir John A. is being charged with crimes against humanity on two counts: The so-called reign of terror on the Métis population in Red River, and the starvation and deaths of thousands of Indigenous people on the planes. Here is acting prosecutor Jean Teillet, who also happens to be the great grand-niece of Louis Riel, on why she thinks the charges hold.

SOUNDCLIP

JEAN TEILLET: We say that Sir John A. MacDonald had a constitutional duty to protect the citizens of Canada and that included the Métis in Red River, that he authorised the deployment of the troops to Red River, that he intended to use force against the Métis, that he knew or ought to have known that violent crimes would be committed, that he knew about the crimes while they were committed. That although he had the authority and many opportunities to stop the crimes he did nothing, which had the effect of encouraging the crimes. Now these crimes against humanity, against the Métis nation are not crimes that have no faces and no names. You see I'm the great grand-niece of Louis Riel and we know the names of the victims. We know the names of the Métis whose homes were burned. We know the names of the Métis men who were beaten and left for dead. We know the names of the men who were tarred and feathered. We know the names of the men who had burning oil poured on them. We know the names of the men who were stabbed and shot and lynched and drowned. We know the names of the women who were raped and the Métis nation remembers those names. So we say that the individual that bears the primary responsibility for these crimes should also be named. And we say that name is Sir John A. MacDonald.

JD: Acting prosecutor Jean Teillet, speaking at a simulated trial of Canada's first prime minister. Part 1 of the trial of Sir John A. MacDonald airs tonight on Ideas on CBC Radio One.

[Music: Ambient Bass Tones]

Winnipeg Urban Reserve

Guest: Dennis Meeches

JD: It's taken almost 14 years of court battles, negotiations and delays. But today, progress was made in Winnipeg. Defense minister Harjit Sajjan and natural resources minister Jim Carr joined seven Treaty One First Nations Chiefs to announce an agreement, in principle, on Winnipeg's Kapyong Barracks. The former Army base is about the size of 127 football fields. It is in a prime Winnipeg neighbourhood and it has been sitting empty since the Canadian military left in 2004. And it could soon become a large First Nations urban reserve. Long Plain Chief Dennis Meeches spoke at the announcement today. He's the Treaty One spokesperson. We reached Chief Meeches in Winnipeg.

CO: Chief Meeches, you have been part of this fight for Kapyong for years. Did you ever think you would succeed?

CHIEF DENNIS MEECHES: I think right from day one I really did believe that we would eventually succeed.

CO: What gave you that confidence?

DM: Well, just because the relationship we have with — our treaty relationship with Canada. And I have a fairly strong understanding of what that means. And just knowing how it played out when the DND announced that Kapyong would be considered surplus. We’re a treaty land entitlement First Nation and I really feel felt that we would have a real shot at it.

CO: And the DND of course, is the department of national defense, and they declared the Kapyong Barracks surplus and then proceeded to attempt to sell them Crown corporation?

DM: That's correct. They actually — I believe they actually instituted a new policy called the Strategic Disposal Policy. That's one of the reasons I felt okay great they've established this new policy on the eve of declaring this property surplus. So that's kind of one of the reasons why I thought OK this is wrong. And based on precedents related to land claims and treaty land entitlements I thought OK we have a very strong case on this one.

CO: Tell us about the case. What claim did you make on that on that land?

DM: Well we signed a treaty land entitlement in 1994. And of course our treaty stems from August 3, 1871. And we've had a similar precedent that happened at Long Plain First Nation with our urban reserve in the city of Portage La Prairie. Kapyong played out a little bit differently Brokenhead First Nation and Long Plain First Nation, we expressed interest rates from the outset. We knew that Canada was taking a position and digging in their heels on Kapyong because it was a very valuable piece of property. In some ways I was thinking that this must be the most hotly contested property in western Canada.

CO $65 million is the price that has been suggested it was worth.

DM: OK, well back then when we first started the claim it wasn't. But that's neither here or there at the moment. But it does represent a bright future for Indigenous people in this province and this country.

CO: Why did it take so long? I mean, you've been involved with this for more than 15 years, as you're saying. You were always confident that it would be successful. But what was the opposition? You say Canada dug in its heels, tell us about that?

DM: Well, you know, I think the location of it and within the province of Manitoba there's a little bit of, I think at the time, maybe some uneasiness when it comes to or as it relates to urban reserves. Nobody really, I don't think, really understood what does that mean. What does an urban reserve mean? And so people are probably having, you know, images of what that meant and probably not very good ones. But I think we proven people wrong. Saskatchewan for example has well over 100 Urban reserves. Manitoba is way behind. I'm not sure about Ontario but Toronto being one of the biggest cities and largest cities in the country, I'm surprised there's nothing there yet. I don't I'm not aware of any urban reserves in that city yet — but there should be. But anyways with Winnipeg it's, you know, we have the highest Indigenous population of any major city in this country and so it bodes well for the Treaty One. And we've said this right from the outset. We need a strong Indigenous economy and urban reserves are a vehicle to help get us there.

CO: Just finally, what's the vision? I mean, when you see that that's an enormous piece of real estate, isn't it? 127 football fields worth in a prime Winnipeg neighbourhood. It's just it's an empty canvas. Just use your imagination. Tell me how people are seeing that space transformed into a living space for First Nations?

DM: Well, before I do that, of course we're working with the Canada Lands Company getting some preliminary renderings done on the footprint of Kapyong, what that may look like. Of course we have a lot of ideas on what will be hosted there, for example, Treaty One government will be hosted there. We do have a lot of Indigenous organizations that could possibly be hosted there: Education training opportunities, arts and culture, recreation, an arena, convention space, hotels. There's so much opportunity there. It holds so much promise for, not only Indigenous people, but now we can see some real development. I really believe it will be a world class development that'll happen there.

CO: Chief Meeches, we look forward to seeing this old army base transformed by you and others. Thank you so much.

DM: Thank you. Have a great day.

CO: Good bye

DM: And go Jets, go!

JD: Chief Dennis Meeches is the spokesperson for the Treaty One First Nations. We reached him in Winnipeg.

[Music: Ambient Plucks]

Vermont Gun Laws

JD: Phil Scott of Vermont is a Republican. He is a gun owner. In his 2016 election campaign he said he saw no reason to change Vermont's relaxed gun laws. So it may surprise some people to learn that today Governor Scott signed into law, the state's first ever significant gun restrictions. The new laws require universal background checks. They raised the legal age to purchase from 18 to 21 and they ban high capacity magazines and bump stocks. The governor signed the bills in public today on the Vermont State House steps. He began by lamenting the polarized nature of American politics and urging the people of Vermont to respect each other's opinions. Evidently, some of the crowd didn't want to take his advice.

SOUNDCLIP

PHIL SCOTT: If we can reduce the polarization we're seeing across the country we can diminish some of the anger at the root of some of the larger challenges that must be part of our ongoing pursuit to reduce violence and make our communities safer.

[APPLAUSE AND HECKLING]

PS: I recognize how hard it is for some to understand my part of our gun laws. Let alone to come to the same conclusions I’ve reached. Many who voted for me are disappointed and angry. I understand, I understand I may you lose support over the decision to sign these bills today. Those are consequences I'm prepared to live with.

[APPLAUSE]

PS: But if we had not even tried to reduce the possibility of a tragedy here in Vermont like Parkland or Virginia Tech, Aurora, Las Vegas, Orlando, Sandy Hook, Dallas or Charleston. If we didn't try to agree to suicide the pain felt by the families left behind, if we didn't try to prevent another death from domestic violence, another child growing up without a mom, that would be hard to live with. And that's why today we choose action over inaction. Doing something over doing nothing. Knowing there will always be more work to do. But today we choose to try.

[APPLAUSE]

JD: That was Governor Phil Scott of Vermont speaking earlier today. This afternoon Governor Scott, a Republican, a gun owner, signed the state's first ever significant gun restrictions into law.

Taylor Ruck Record

Guest: Taylor Ruck

JD: Taylor Ruck had to write in high school English test this week. She's 17 so there's nothing really out of the ordinary about that. But what Ms. Ruck did before that exam was extraordinary. One day earlier the Kelowna-born swimmer and her eighth medal at the Commonwealth Games in Australia. She's now won more medals at a single games than any other Canadian woman. We reached Taylor Ruck on the way to the airport at Brisbane.

CO: Taylor Ruck, big congratulations.

TAYLOR RUCK: Oh, thank you so much.

CO: How are you feeling? Eight medals, eight medals in these games. What what's going through your mind right now?

TR: Going through my mind right now I'm just still in shock and awe. And I think it's going to set in more when I got home in Toronto and I settle back into my routine and when I reflect back on this meet. So yeah, right now I'm still in shock, I guess.

CO: When you headed to Australia, I'm sure you had big hopes in these Commonwealth Games. Did you think that you were going to try to break this record or tie this record of medal wins in the games?

TR: Going into the games I had no expectations really, because when I have no expectations I think I do better in my races. So when I didn't have any expectations, I don't know, I think I did better in my races because I didn't have any. So when I came out of the meet with eight medals, like I said I’m in shock and I’m in awe, just coming out of the meet with that many medals just this whole experience so amazing.

CO: So let's talk about some of the races. You finished the 4x100 metre relay. That's the 8th medal you won. When you were standing on the podium with your team mates, what was that like?

TR: Standing on the podium with my teammates is just amazing. I love relays especially because they're just so unique and special because you get to share the experience with your best friends.

CO: And so you shared that with them but of course, you know, you got your gold medal in the 200 metre freestyle. And is that something that was special to you, had you been working on that?

TR: I think I was so surprised after touching the wall and looking up and saying my name as first place in the 200-free because I definitely was trying to race Ariarne Titmus. And when I saw my name, I just — I literally was in shock because I never expected to come out of the meet with a medal, especially a gold medal. It started the meet off really well for me.

CO: And you also broke a record with that race?

TR: Oh, yeah that was really cool too.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: Oh, yeah there was that. Oh well, I forget all the things I’ve accomplished in these games. It's great. And of course your parents are watching this closely and your dad said a few things just about, you know, just how bittersweet it was after the Rio Olympics when you won medals as Canada's part of Canada's relay team and the decision to move back to Canada. What was that like to leave your family in Arizona and make that move?

TR: Yeah, I think my dad really hit the nail on the head when he said that it was bittersweet because I mean, I miss my family so much. They're just my rock and my support system and I definitely miss coming home to seeing them every day. My dad's meals and my mom’s jokes she cracks at dinner, my brother everything — and my dog, my pug. So yeah, I definitely miss them, so that's the bittersweet part, but I'm definitely loving how this move to Toronto has affected my swimming thus far and I'm excited to see what it will bring in the future for Pan Pacs, (Pan Pacific Championship). I guess that's the next meet for me. So yeah I'm excited to see what will come out of Pan Pacs too.

CO: You said at the beginning of this interview that you do best when you don't have expectations, when you don't have that pressure on you. But now, with people calling you the next swim sensation and looking ahead to the Olympics in 2020, there's a lot of pressure on you, isn’t there? You’re 17, with all those expectations. How are you going to deal with that?

TR: I mean, I've never really heard that before in my life that the next big swimming sensation. I mean, I don't really pay attention to that kind of stuff, I guess. As you said the pressure can be really great when you pay attention to that kind of stuff. So I think if I had I usually just block it out a little bit so the pressure doesn't really get me because I know pressure can be a big factor in how I train and perfrom at meets. So I think as long as I just focus on what is next, so Pan Pacs and my training for Pan Pacs, I think I'll just perform as best as I can.

CO: All right. I have to ask you the question your dad wants an answer to I'm sure. How did the English exam go?

TR: Oh, my gosh. I think it went OK. No, I think it went really good. It was good. It was just like the SAT so I felt pretty prepared for it.

CO: Well, you know, your dad’s saying it's time to talk about school.

TR: Yeah, it is definitely time to talk about school.

CO: And what university are you planning to go to?

TR: I’m planning to go to Stanford University in the fall next year.

CO: Taylor, I'm not seeing you, but I'm hearing that great big smile still on your face. I don't blame you. It's just so great, I'm so happy for you.

TR: Thank you so much.

CO: All right. Happy travels. Bye-bye.

TR: Bye.

JD: Canadian swimmer Taylor Ruck. We reached her on her way to the Brisbane Airport.

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April 11, 2018 episode transcript

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