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The AIH Transcript for March 8, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight…

CO: Beyond the call of duties. U.S. President Donald Trump announces his new steel and aluminium tariffs won't apply to Canada and Mexico for the time being. But we're not out of the metallic woods yet.

JD: Crossing examination. A North Carolina city explodes with outrage after body cam video shows a white police officer brutally tasing and beating a black man who was caught jaywalking.

CO: Memorial disservice. Sylvia Plath is one of many remarkable women who had no obituary in The New York Times at the time of her death. But now she and 14 others are finally getting overdue tributes from the paper.

JD: Giving them their bunny's worth. After our interview with a man who fought for his right not to tell kids about the Easter bunny, you responded with a rousing rebuttal of cheers big ears.

CO: Not suitable for miners. Old factories in Plattsburgh, New York are fast becoming new homes for bitcoin mines. But instead of embracing the virtual currency boom the town wants to make further mining virtually impossible.

JD: And…The gorgeous models don't have pecks but the photographer’s got some. A book features 200 dazzling photographs revealing the often ignored beauty of chickens. And one of the artists explains how he wound up with all that time on his hens. As It Happens: The Thursday Edition. Radio that usually ignores cluck-bait.

[Music: Theme]

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Part 1: Trump Tariffs, NYT Obituaries Overlooked Women, Chicken Book

Trump Tariffs

Guest: Christopher Sands

JD: He finally did it. Despite pressure from industry groups and members of his own cabinet, U.S. President Donald Trump signed tariffs today on steel and aluminum coming from abroad — but not from Canada — at least not for now. Here is President Trump this afternoon.

SOUNDCLIP

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Due to the unique nature of our relationship with Canada and Mexico we're negotiating right now NAFTA, and we're going to hold off the tariff for those two countries to see whether or not we're able to make the deal on NAFTA. National security is a very important aspect of that deal. And if we're making the deal on NAFTA this will figure into the deal we won't have the tariffs on Canada or Mexico. If we don't make the deal on NAFTA, and if we terminate NAFTA because they're unable to make a deal that's fair for our workers and fair for our farmers — we love our farmers — and fair for our manufacturers, then we’re going to terminate NAFTA and we'll start all over again or we'll just do it a different way, but we'll terminate NAFTA and that'll be it. But I have a feeling we're going to make a deal on NAFTA and if we do there will any tariffs on Canada and there won’t be any tariffs on Mexico.

JD: That was the president of the United States Donald Trump, speaking earlier today in the Oval Office. Christopher Sands is the director of the Center for Canadian Studies at Johns Hopkins University. We reached him in Silver Spring, Maryland.

CO: Professor Sands, how relieved said Canada be at this point?

PROFESSOR CHRISTOPHER SANDS: Well, I think Canadian reaction should be somewhat mixed. While you're not hit in that 15 days with this new tariff, which certainly will help auto companies and others that are depending on shipments of aluminum and steel in the short term and it would be very difficult for them to adjust, they'd simply have to eat the extra cost. So that's good in the short run. The fact that the tariffs are not being suspended indefinitely, but rather sort of held over your head during the NAFTA negotiation adds to U.S. leverage at the negotiating table and raises the cost of walking away from a bad deal. As Prime Minister Trudeau was saying just last week, he would prefer to walk away from a bad deal rather than sign it. This raises the cost of doing that for Canada.

CO: That's a pretty clever move on the part of Mr. Trump then?

CS: I think he's all about negotiating leverage. It seems theatrical at times but he is shrewd and I think that this is part of his strategy. Whether it will work or whether by being such a rough negotiator he alienates the very people he's trying to do deal with, that remains to be seen. But I do think he's doing this on purpose and with a purpose in mind of a deal on NAFTA that looks more like what he would like to see than maybe what Canada and Mexico are used to.

CO: What is it you think that Donald Trump is looking for in a NAFTA deal? What’s the essence of what he wants from Canada?

CS: That's a difficult thing to say. I suspect that a final deal will include, perhaps, a higher rule of origin to make sure that there's more content coming from North America. And with regard to the steel and aluminum tariffs, one of the reasons that the president has talked about having an across-the-board tariff is the fear that Chinese steel or perhaps aluminum from China will find its way into North America through Canada or Mexico. And so he's looking to build a bit of a wall around the U.S. economy and if Canada and Mexico are part of that team he'll want that wall there as well. Higher North American content, in his mind, means more jobs here in North America, but it might not work out the way that he thinks. You could raise the costs of all manufacturers and all businesses by forcing them to use domestic products and find that they're not competitive, and that products that are imported even with a tariff are more competitive. It's very complicated in the global economy to know exactly how you can advance one country's interests at the expense of others. He's trying to do it but I'm not convinced that he'll succeed.

CO: If there is to be a wall around the United States and Canada wants to be on the inside of that, to be within the fortress and be part of that, is it necessary — will it become necessary for Canada to harmonize these tariffs? I mean, because we're suffering from the dumping too, we've heard that from the people we've interviewed. They're fed up with how China is using this market, not just in the United States but in Canada as well. If this can be 25 per cent tariffs in the U.S. should we harmonize with that and have the same tariffs from Canada?

CS: Well, that's actually an idea that has been floated, prior to this new tariff countries in Europe and Canada and Mexico and elsewhere have been trying to coordinate a strategy to deal with Chinese oversupply. That multilateral effort is going to be a lot harder now because even if Canada and Mexico are spared, it looks like European countries will be outside this new policy. And by antagonizing the Europeans while at the same time aiming for China, it’s a little bit like sitting in a bar full of your friends and recognizing that there's a deadly spider on the other side of the room. So trying to hit it with a shotgun, you're inevitably hurting all your friends even if you do get the spider that you're after. It's just not the right way of doing it. I think a coordinated effort by countries around the world to address China is necessary. China is a very important, very big economy, and only if we're unified are we going to be able to find a way to encourage the Chinese to lower this oversupply and set steel and aluminum prices at a more sustainable level. By trying to handle this unilaterally the U.S. is making it much more difficult to get that kind of consensus.

CO: All right notwithstanding this strategy this may be shooting a spider from across the room with a shotgun, but that when you go through the speech he made today what he's laying out, what Mr. Trump is laying out, is this idea where he's going to put these tariffs on steel. He's going to try to restart the production in the United States. He says he's talking about what seems like a tax-free zone encouraging outside countries to come in and manufacture in the United States making taking advantage of oil and coal and deregulation and all kinds — and the enormously cut business tax, all these things he's saying you know come and play with us inside our fortress and we'll make it worth your while because we're going to have all these tariffs. I mean, it can certainly sell this idea but can it work?

CS: It may work to some extent. Remember that steel and aluminum aren't just one product, but actually they're often specialty steels and particular grades of aluminum are required for different purposes. So we may find that in some sectors work will shift here and I should say again the goal is not a bad one, the idea that we're dealing with Chinese oversupply, oversupply from some other countries is a serious problem and people are being hurt in the U.S. and in Canada by this oversupply. I'm just questioning whether this method will do anything but give us a short term boost. It doesn't really address the main problem. It just tries to create an alternative maybe North American production that can substitute for Chinese production. You still end up with more production on the market than you need. And that's going to push prices down on a global basis. Even if you keep the North American prices high by combination of incentives and whatnot, if prices are lower elsewhere, work that needs intensive amounts of steel and aluminum will go elsewhere and then we'll face it coming in as a manufactured product whether it's a vehicle or a soup can, it will be coming in from the outside because it’s so much cheaper to produce out there where oversupply continues to be the condition.

CO: Professor Sands, it’s good to talk to you. Thanks.

CS: Thank you very much.

JD: Christopher Sands is the director of the Center for Canadian Studies at Johns Hopkins University. We reached him in Silver Spring, Maryland. And Donald Trump was not alone at the signing ceremony today. He was joined in the White House by steel and aluminum workers. Here's what one of them had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

SCOTT SARGE: Hello everybody, my name is Scott Sarge I'm president Local 2227. And I'd like to tell you a story about my father during the 80s. He lost his job due to imports coming into this country. And I want to tell you what that does to a man with six kids is devastating. So I never forgot that, looking into his eyes in my household what that does to a family. You hear about it but when you're actually involved and it impacts you, it will never leave you. So with that being said for her Herman Sarge, your story didn't end. And for all the people that I represent at my union I never want to see it happen again and for these workers and these folks, I appreciate the opportunity and I'm very humbled with this so it's very important to us so I never want to see it happen again. And I say that sincerely from my heart and I thank you for the opportunity for what you do.

DT: Your father’s Herman?

SS: Herman Sarge, yes sir.

DT: Well, your father Herman is looking down. He's very proud of you right now.

SS: He’s still alive.

[LAUGHTER]

DT: Oh he is? Then he’s even more proud of you. Then he’s even more proud.

[LAUGHTER & APPLAUSE]

DT: Anybody else? Please come on up.

JD: That was U.S. President Donald Trump and the steelworker Scott Sarge in the White House earlier today.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

NYT Obituaries Overlooked Women

Guest: Amy Padnani

JD: To have your obituary in The New York Times is considered an honour. And it suggests that your life was important enough to be marked as newsworthy at its end. And yet throughout the 20th century The New York Times published no obituaries for the poet Sylvia Plath, for the photographer Diane Arbus or the reporter Ida B. Wells — among many, many, many others. But today, on International Women's Day, the paper published obituaries for 15 notable women throughout American history as part of a new project titled Overlooked. Amy Padnani is behind the project. She is the Digital Editor for obituaries at The New York Times. We reached her in New York.

CO: Amy, who was the first overlooked woman that got to thinking about this project?

AMY PADNANI: So her name is Mary Ewing Outerbridge. She was credited with bringing tennis to the United States in 1874. I came across her when I was doing some research on another potential obit for a woman in the tennis world and I saw website talking about Mary Ewing Outerbridge. So I wondered if we had ever done a New York Times obituary on her. It said that she had introduced tennis on Staten Island in New York and that's someplace I used to live that's near and dear to my heart. So I was like wow is that Staten Island, that's great. I checked our archives and we hadn’t done an obit on her.

CO: And what do you think, if it had been a man who had introduced tennis to the United States, is it likely in your view that there would have been an obituary for him?

AP: That's actually a good question, I hadn't thought about this before, but there's some debate as to whether Mary was in fact the first person to bring tennis to the United States. There are a few others, including a man, who set up a court in Massachusetts on his uncle's lawn. His name was James Dwight. And the debate went on for years, in fact, people are still debating who introduced tennis to the U.S. I haven't checked to see if James Dwight got an obit but I would be really fascinated if he had.

CO: So this led you — realizing that Mary Ewing Outerbridge did not have an obituary in The New York Times — lead you to find others that surprised you, can you tell us a bit about that?

AP: Sure. Throughout my research day-to-day on the obituaries desk I would come across other interesting names and search our archives. And I started keeping this list and just tucked it away in the back of my mind. And the more I talked to family, friends and colleagues the more people seem really intrigued about this. So we started digging a little deeper and we found some bigger names like the poet Sylvia Plath, the brilliant photographer Diane Arbus, the writer of Charlotte Bronte. We were really surprised to find that none of these women had received obits before. So it was interesting to find out and we decided you know this might be the time to finally tell their stories.

CO: There are some others too. Those are well known names that are really surprising, but other ones you found like Ida B. Wells who didn't have an obituary. Tell us about her?

AP: So Ida B. Wells, the journalist and civil rights leader — we were shocked. We had actually done a little piece about her marriage but we didn't write about her death and we don't really know why. We've kind of speculated, you know, perhaps with some of these candidates, like there's one named Nella Larsen, she was a literary star of the Harlem Renaissance, but she withdrew from the limelight and she died alone in her apartment and her body was found days later. So she sort of died in obscurity and it's possible that some of these people we just didn't even hear about their deaths or maybe their achievements weren't remembered when they died. We really don't have an answer about why Ida B. Wells had not received an obituary. She is one of the more surprising ones to us. Perhaps a news editor didn't think she was worthy at the time. It's really hard to say.

CO: That's of course the question wondering if you could if it was possible to go back in time and be there when an editorial desk made a decision not to have one of these obituaries of these women — what went through, probably, his mind at the time. What's the speculation in The New York Times newsroom?

AP: Yeah, we don't know. I mean, we often say that society didn't give these people a space at the table, that they really had to fight and break through barriers in order to do it. So it's almost our newspapers are a reflection of what was happening in society at the time. And it's possible that because they didn't get enough attention in their lifetime they also didn't get the attention when they died.

CO: It's interesting also because New York Times obituaries are always so fascinating to read. It's not necessarily the most famous people or the people who are well-known to the world. They're quite often obscure figures or quite often people we don't know much about, like somebody who invented the Stove Top stuffing or something like that or just has an interesting story to tell. That's been the sort of hallmark of the obituary section. So it seems odd that just because they were not well-known or because they died in obscurity doesn't seem to be a reason, does it?

AP: Not necessarily. But you're right that our readers absolutely love learning about somebody they never heard of. I mean, recently we had an obit for the woman who invented the self-cleaning house. That was fascinating, everybody wants to self-cleaning house, they loved that story. And this package includes a couple of lesser known women as well. There's Emily Warren Roebling, who helped oversee the construction of the Brooklyn Bridge after the engineer, her husband, died. And there's a few others who aren't quite so famous.

CO: Like for instance?

AP: Well, Qiu Jin, she was a poet in China and a feminist and a revolutionary. She died at a young age, so few people have probably heard of her unless they're really immersed in history. There is also well Henrietta Lacks, a lot of people still haven't heard of her. She was a poor uneducated black woman whose cells were unknowingly used for research. And now it's yielded so many important medical discoveries for various illnesses. There's Marcia Johnson a trans-woman who pioneered the gay rights movement at Stonewall. And there are going to be more to come, this series is actually continuing on. We'll be adding a new story every week for months to come.

CO: What's been the reaction to this idea? Because it really is speaking of overlooked, an overlooked the idea. How are people responding in the newsroom to this idea that these obituaries are to be written?

AP: People are so happy. Everybody thinks the project came out great and they feel it's really overdue. Part of the reason that I started thinking about this project was because of some notes we would get from readers who said why don't you have more women and people of colour in your pages. And today I'm getting so many notes saying thank you, this was so necessary.

CO: How long do you think the project will continue?

AP: You know, it could continue indefinitely, as long as there's an interest in it and a need for it I don't see any reason to stop. I feel like there's so many people to fill the pages that, you know, it won't be difficult to keep it going.

CO: A lot of material. Amy, it's a great project and I appreciate speaking with you, thank you.

AP: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

AP: Bye.

JD: Amy Padnani is the digital editor for obituaries at The New York Times. She is behind the paper's new historical obituaries project called Overlooked. For more on the story go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih

[Music: Guitar Strums]

Chicken Book

Guest: Matteo Tranchellini

JD: Breathtaking landscapes, iconic architecture, timeless art, masterpieces, big shiny photographs of big shiny human faces. You put coffee table books featuring any of the above in your living room and they say these giant books that I never open reflect my taste, they reflect me. But do they also say something else? Do they perhaps say I am boring? I have conformed. I'm not saying that that is what they're saying, but I am saying that a coffee table book by two Italian artists will definitely not say that. It is a book designed solely to showcase the beauty of chickens. Matteo Tranchellini and Moreno Monti created the book called CHICken. We reached Mr. Tranchellini in Milan.

CO: Matteo, why did you decide to photograph these beautiful chickens?

MATTEO TRANCHELINI: This is our passion. We have a studio in Milan with a little garden and we wanted to have some pets and we decided to buy some chickens, some little beautiful chickens, Cochin-China, not popular chickens. When we bought the chickens we contacted the farmer and the farmer invited us photograph some chickens for an exhibition.

CO: So this farmer asked you to photograph his chickens. But these are like Vogue fashion art pictures of the chickens, these are exquisite.

MT: Because when the farmer asked us to photograph the chickens we realized that the chickens are like models, top models. In this moment we understood that the shooting is very different from the style of the work. And the farmers, they wanted the photograph to describe the animal. We are interested in the beauty of these animals. When we started with an exhibition, we wanted to an another one and when we had 300 photographs of many, many chickens, we realized we had enough materials to make a book.

CO: You mentioned they are like models — but they look like models wearing beautiful clothing. I mean, these are — some of them the colours are intense, they're sleek, they're big, they're woolly — they're all kinds of things. They’re just the most amazing chickens. Did you know there were so many different kinds?

MT: No, no. We discovered this in the exhibition. We discovered many, many people who are passionate about these animals and we understand because they’re like models.

CO: And you say you didn't know how popular it would be. You started a Kickstarter campaign to get funding and it went crazy. You got 300 times more than you asked for.

MT: I know, it's incredible we are surprised.

CO: And you have a great name because it's CHICken but it's chic- ken.

MT: The name CHICken contains chic.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: How much cooperation did you get from these chickens?

MT: When the chicken was on the stage they stay five to ten minutes maximum because there was the flash, the camera, people around us. And after ten minutes it’s impossible to prevent.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: That's pretty good that you had 10 minutes. Do you think they liked to having all this attention?

MT: I think yes. Because you can see on the picture they are like a stars, like an actress, or a model. You can see in every animal the character.

CO: Did you get roosters or just chickens?

MT: Many roosters and many chickens — half and half. You can recognize the rooster from the crest.

CO: Did any of the models become dinner?

MT: No, no, no, no — absolutely not. These kind of chickens are only for beauty.

CO: And what about their eggs, did you harvest their eggs?

MT: Yes, but not too much, because this selection is only for the beauty. I have Cochin-China in my garden. And in one week one chicken can produce four eggs — not too much.

CO: Now I saw a video of you and your partner, of you and Moreno, you were speaking chicken to each other you talk chicken.

MT: Yeah absolutely.

CO: Can you speak chicken for us?

MT: Yes.

[IMITATION CHICKEN SOUNDS]

[LAUGHTER]

CO: It's wonderful that they have taught you many, many words these chickens.

[LAUGHTER]

MT: You understand?

CO: Completely. I think they're saying something about omelettes, I'm not sure. Mateo, it's great to speak with you. I really appreciate it and good luck with your project.

MT: Thank you very much.

JD: Matteo Tranchellini is one of the co-creators of the book CHICken, which is expected to begin shipping by midsummer. We reached Mr. Tranchellini in Milan and we do have some of the photographs from CHICken up on our website. These photos will change your life or at least they will change the way you look at chickens — they are gorgeous. www.cbc.ca/aih

[Music: Upright Bass]

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Part 2: North Carolina Police Body Cam Video, Kristin Raworth, Bitcoin Mining Ban

North Carolina Police Body Cam Video

Guest: Councilwoman Sheneika Smith

JD: Johnnie Jermaine Rush was walking home from work. He was tired after a long shift. It was late and there weren't many cars around. So, like so many of us do, he jaywalked. The police stopped him. Mr. Rush is Black, the two cops who stopped him are white. They began scolding him. One officer tried to arrest him, Mr. Rush ran. What happened next was revealed in police body cam footage obtained by The Asheville Citizen Times. Here is part of the audio — and a warning this is difficult to listen to.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHNNIE JERMAINE RUSH I can’t breathe, I can’t breathe.

[SOUND OF TASER DISCHARGING MULTIPLE TIMES]

[JOHNNIE JERMAINE RUSH YELLING IN PAIN]

OFFICER CHRISTOPHER HICKMAN: Lay down.

[SOUND OF TASER DISCHARGING]

JJR: I can’t, I can’t!

CH: Put your hands behind your back!

JJR: I can’t. How?

CH: Behind your back!

JJR: Help! Help!

JD: That was the sound of police officers in Asheville, North Carolina repeatedly tasing Johnnie Jermaine Rush. The video also shows the same officer repeatedly punching Mr. Rush in the head and choking him. Sheneika Smith is a city councilwoman in Asheville. That's where we reached her.

CO: Councilwoman Smith, what did you think when you first saw this video?

COUNCILWOMAN SHENEIKA SMITH: I was very disturbed by it because I'm new to council and I knew it would be the issue that we had to face head on. But most disturbing for me was that I recognized the victim — Mr. Johnnie Rush. I'd had some interactions with Mr. Rush through a non-profit organization called Green Opportunities. Mr. Rush came to our organization, which is a workforce development organization, to gain more skills through our training program.

CO: And we saw — what we're hearing is this man you know — Johnnie Jermaine Rush, being tasered, being punched in the head and choked and beaten. For those who haven't seen the video, it begins with him being stopped for jaywalking, and he says I'm just trying to go home, I'm tired, I just got off work. And then it just escalates from there. Can you describe for our listeners some of what happens and how it got to this point where he's being beaten?

SS: Yes. On the video you can see body-cam footage that was on the person of training officer Hickman and Ruggiero, which was the training officer who initiated this conversation. He then began to give Mr. Rush a choice, or maybe just for that I don't know whether I should write you a ticket or take you to jail. Mr. Rush, the victim said, “Do whatever you have to do, but just stop harassing me.” And when he came for backup to assist this officer in training, I believe that Rush got scared and he started to flee but I don't think it was a long pursuit before he just gave in. And that is when the use of force turned into excessive force.

CO: And he wasn't someone who was in trouble, he wasn't known to police, he was working as a dishwasher and just heading home that night at midnight. Do you know anything else about him?

SS: I think it's important that you pointed that out because usually we as a society there just a justification that would exempt, you know, individuals or would give us an excuse to say “This is just a situation because, he had a gun, or he deserved the treatment because, you know, if you look into his background he had some violence in his background or, you know, he abuses drugs. But it's almost as if Mr. Rush was unblemished, which will gather more attention and give even more reason to look at this police culture.

CO: Near the end of the video police backup arrives, as you just mentioned, and the officer wearing the body cam starts telling the other officers what had happened, what had led to this escalation and the condition we can see Mr. Rush is in at this point. We just want to play some of that and have you react to it. Here's what Officer Hickman is telling the other officers.

SOUNDCLIP

OFFICER CHRISTOPHER HICKMAN: He started punking out Ruggiero. Ruggiero said I’m going to write you a ticket, he started throwing a fit on the sidewalk. I told him to get his hands behind his back and it was on from there. He ran laughing, saying f**k you. I can’t wait until you catch me, so we caught him. The he wanted to fight, tried to drag the taser out of my hand. And then I just went on his f**king head. I beat the s**t out of his head. I’m not going to lie about that.

CO: What do you make of that?

SS: They’re lies. It's disturbing to me because these lies are told a lot, which lead to false arrest, which lead to false convictions, which leads to the reason why the prison industrial complex is such a problem in Western societies.

CO: Why do you think the officer would lie given that there's video that shows it's not true?

SS: I think it's the protection that's necessary to really support our conditioning as a society, even on the inside of the laws of law enforcement — I think we can be we've been conditioned to believe that officers do no wrong.

CO: It's interesting though that this was a training session. The officer who did the beating was training the other fellow how to do the job. What does that tell you?

SS: If we're really unpacking this issue, I think that is where we start. How did he even qualify to be a training officer? Because as we during our initial investigation here, as a city, we've looked into the citizen complaints, we've seen that he had numerous complaints and that's not a person that we would like to be represented on our force. Neither would we like this person to train a new, brave well-intentioned citizens who want to join this charge to protect and serve. That's where the problem begins. I don't think we're vetting individuals well to see if they have the pathology of what I'm calling white supremacy — a pathology of hatred.

CO: This Officer Hickman resigned after the footage was made public and the chief of police, Tammy Hooper, said that he said it was a terrible egregious case. The whole reason around the stop to begin with was just a bad thing from start to finish. Everything about this was bad and she says that I'd be happy to resign. Do you think the chief will resign?

SS: Well, from my perspective, I'm a city council member and I believe that all terminations from this point are subject to an investigation. I would really hate to see Chief Hooper go — not that she didn't act in negligence — because I believe that she should have started a criminal investigation of this affair when she first viewed the footage. And just because you changed leadership doesn't mean it's going to solve the problem.

CO: Councilman Smith, I appreciate speaking with you, it's very disturbing and you've shed quite a bit of light for us today. Thank you.

SS: Thank you. Thank you, for having me.

CO: Bye-bye.

SS: Bye.

JD: Sheneika Smith is a city councilwoman in Asheville, North Carolina. That is where we reached her. In a statement released last week, Asheville police chief Tammy Hooper did apologize for the incident, as Ms. Smith mentioned, and the FBI has opened a criminal investigation against Officer Chris Hickman.

Kristin Raworth

JD: You're yummy. Those were the words that Liberal MP Kent Hehr allegedly uttered while sharing an elevator with young Alberta legislative assistant named Kristin Raworth in 2007. It has been a little over a month since Kent Hehr lost his cabinet position after those allegations were posted on Twitter by Ms. Raworth. And tonight she will speak out for the first time in an interview with the CBC's Hannah Thibedeau on The National. She will address what happened to her and the backlash she faced after going public.

SOUNDCLIP

KRISTIN RAWORTH: It ranged from getting death threats and getting threats — someone telling me that they hope I got raped so that I understood what sexual violence really was — to having a guy send me a naked photo of himself saying I think you're yummy, to a note under my door, to women sending me messages telling me that I was minimizing the experience of sexual assault survivors. And I still get messages like that. I still get messages telling me that what I did and what I said is nothing compared to their experience.

HANNAH THIBEDEAU: You felt like you had to hide?

KW: Yep. And then it’s afterwards too. Like it's not only when you're in the storm of something like that, afterwards the trauma of going through that, the trauma basically being everywhere across the news your name, your picture everywhere — to then go out into public and be out there. You start thinking, you know, do people knew who I am? Are people judging me? Are people thinking less of me? It's very, very difficult.

HT: Now looking back, do you think it’s worth it?

KW: Absolutely. And, you know, I said before that in the moment it doesn't feel like it — but absolutely now it does because I've had messages from people telling me that they now feel comfortable talking about their experiences with harassment, their experiences with the assault because of what I did and because of speaking out. I am also incredibly privileged that because of the people that I know and the experiences that I had that my voice was amplified at all, because there are so many survivors of harassment and sexual assault who don't have that opportunity to have their stories heard and their voices heard because of a lack of access and the lack of privilege.

JD: The CBC's Hannah Thibedeau in conversation with Kristin Raworth. You can see the full interview tonight on the national.

[Music: Guitar Strums]

Bitcoin Mining Ban

Guest: Mayor Colin Reed

JD: There's an old paper mill in the town of Plattsburgh in New York state that is working overtime these days — and it's making huge profits. But it's not churning through wooden pulp, it's churning out Bitcoin. Plattsburgh is just the latest place to see old factory spaces transformed into Bitcoin mines. It's kind of like mining for gold, if gold was instead a digital crypto currency. It sounds whimsical and exciting doesn't it? Plattsburgh doesn't really think so. So the town is trying to put a moratorium on Bitcoin mines. Colin Reed is the mayor of Plattsburgh, and that's where we reached him.

CO: Mayor Reed, first of all I'm trying to picture what a Bitcoin mining operation actually looks like. Can you help us with that?

MAYOR COLIN REED: Well, it's probably best to imagine a bunch of devices about the size of a little space heater you might have in your bedroom, all plugged in and crammed into a room with as many as they can get in there as possible. Sometimes they get 1,000 or 2,000 these units each using up about equivalent amount of energy and generate about the same amount of heat as that small little space heater.

CO: I'm sure lots of people know that Bitcoin isn't an actual thing. So they're not making anything, there's no alloy coming out of this little coin at the end of it. What is it they're actually doing?

CR: They're generating a lot of heat doing a lot of calculations on these little computer-like devices that are encrypting the Bitcoins that keeps the general ledger, all the various transactions, safe from hackers basically.

CO: I'm sure there are many people who understand what you just said.

CR: It's incredibly complicated but there's a lot of people involved in the industry that don't need to know much beyond buying one of these little devices or a thousand of them and plugging them into the wall and plugging them into the Internet.

CO: Are they making a lot of money?

CR: They do. The devices themselves cost around $2,000 apiece. So if you buy a thousand of them you might be investing $2 million dollars into this. They'll pay for themselves at current Bitcoin prices within about half-a-year. After that it's just sheer profit — millions and millions of dollars a year for as long as this Bitcoin thing continues.

CO: So what's your issue with them in Plattsburgh?

CR: As I mentioned, they'll look for any space they can ge,t hopefully near a very, very, very large power source. They generate an awful lot of heat so we really believe we need to look more carefully at our building codes to make sure our residents are being protected. You know, an old storefront or a room in a warehouse or a person's garage really isn't designed to have 500 space heaters all plugged in at one time.

CO: Why is Plattsburgh so attractive to Bitcoin mining operations?

CR: There's only a few places in the United States, or for that matter around the world, that has access to the inexpensive power that we have access to. We’re part of a basically a co-operative or an association that has access to power from the St. Lawrence River. This is a historical arrangement that our communities enjoyed for many, many decades. It allows us to sell power to our residents and our industry in Plattsburgh at about a third or a quarter of the prevailing rate.

CO: And how much electricity do these mining operations require?

CR: They probably represent already about 20 per cent of our entire quota.

CO: And what does that doing to your electricity supplies?

CR: For most days we can accommodate that and stay below our quota. Once in a while if it's a very cold or very warm day we’re pushed above our quota, and that point we have to buy power on what's called the spot market. It is very expensive because you're only buying power on the worst times the coldest and the warmest days when everybody's trying to get more power. So we're paying 20, 50, 100 times more for the power than we normally would have to, and that is shared amongst all the rate payers and just not the Bitcoin miners that have put us over the edge.

CO: But the advantage of having this cheap electricity has been that Plattsburg has had a lot of industry factories — these Bitcoin operations are operating in old paper mills and shuttered aluminum factory — and so it was it was to help industries to create the different kind of enterprises. So isn't the mining, this Bitcoin mining doing exactly what the cheap power was designed to create?

CR: Somewhat and we've got other industries in town that are very important to us and employ many, many hundreds of people. Unfortunately Bitcoin operations tend to not hire very many people at all. You know, somebody just to watch the machines hum along and make sure that the fans ejecting all the heat are properly operating.

CO: One of the Bitcoin miners in your town who is running the operation in the old paper mill doesn't even live in Plattsburgh, he lives in Grenada. But he's worried that you don't see the innovation that this brings, and any kind of moratorium or slowing down or regulations on it are simply going to prevent this industry from blossoming. I mean what do you say to Mr. Bowman?

CR: Oh, I don't know if I quite agree with that. Many communities are looking to explore this more carefully. If we simply didn't do this in a very prudent and calculated manner, I'm quite sure that all of our available power will be used up easily within the next year or two. There's just that much of a backlog of people that want to invest, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars in buying these devices and plugging them in wherever they can get the cheapest possible electricity. I'm a little bit of a nerd myself, and I love computers and I'm very interested in this whole phenomenon. We certainly don't want to slow down the innovator who's doing some things in their bedroom and playing with this technique a little bit. We're just really worried about the health and safety concerns and such large scale production.

CO: Does it seem a bit kind of lonely and a bit depressing when you picture these mills that used to be bustling with people, producing things that people used and needed, and now it’s just this place where one guy is sort of keeping his machines humming and producing crypto currency?

CR: It is kind of discouraging. I would like to actually reserve some of our electricity for those industries that want to come to town that will be really part of the community and will be hiring a lot of our residents. That to me is a healthy community. I can't blame somebody from investing in us from out of state or even out of country. But we really want to try to do as a city and build community and generate local jobs.

CO: It's a new world isn't it?

CR: It's very interesting and seems to get more snow all the time.

CO: Mayor Reed it’s good to talk to you, thank you.

CR: Thank you and have a great day.

JD: Colin Reed is the mayor of Plattsburgh, New York. That is where we reached him and we are more on this story on our website.

[Music: Whimsical Guitar]

Easter Bunny: CAS Reaction

JD: The Easter Bunny will not be visiting their home — and that is just fine with them. Last night we told you about Derek and Frances Baars. The Baars refused to tell their foster children that the Easter Bunny was real. And so Hamilton Children's Aid Society removed the two girls from their care. A court however, has now ruled that the Baars’ Charter rights to freedom of religion expression and conscience were violated. Well, after our conversation with Mr. Baar we heard from you. And just a quick warning to listeners with kids in the room. We're going to talk about the Easter Bunny and Santa over the next couple of minutes. OK. Guy Lacourciere from Calgary sent us this e-mail. Quote “Childhood is not all about facts and adults beliefs. It is about a fantasy world where you believe that people can fly, that fairies exist, tha dreams can come true. It's about pretending, imagining and dreaming. It's about creating an environment where the imagination is free to roam where it wishes. As Einstein said ‘Imagination is more important than knowledge, for knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.’ People who deny children the right to believe in fairies, in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and their impossible dreams should not be allowed to be foster parents.” unquote. Talkback also had an opinion on the Easter Bunny.

SOUNDCLIP

ALISON ASBURY: Talkback this is Alison Asbury, from Val-David, Quebec. I wanted to comment on your interview you just had because I'm the same, I've raised children and foster children too and I would never lie to them because I was very disappointed as a little child that my parents had lied to me about Santa Claus. It really affected my trust in them because to me truth is important. Anyway thanks for your work. Bye.

SOUNDCLIP

RODNEY RUSSO: My name is Rodney Russo and I’m from Toronto. Interestingly, as an atheist, I really appreciate the last question that came up where that man, Mr. Baar I believe his name was, was asked if he would object to foster parents telling kids that there was no God. And I draw a perfect parallel in my circumstance if I were ever to consider fostering kids, and I am a parent. I'm a queer gay man and I have a partner and a child, and if I ever did foster children it would be the absolute conviction of mine that I would not wish to tell them that Jesus was real or a religious figure, and that God is real. To me these are equivalent to the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. And I'm really interested to see where the legislation, or any further cases that do address that question, do take the law around navigating this issue of sort of rights to religious freedom, hopefully including atheism and I guess, the rights of children in care. Thanks.

JD: Thank you all for your comments. You can have your say on this, or any story on the program, by emailing us at aih@cbc.ca or hitting us on Twitter or Facebook. That's quick. CBC As It Happens, both those accounts. Or give us a call we’d love to play your voice. (416) 205-5687.

[Music: Guitar Strums]

Jaspal Atwal press conference

JD: Convicted attempted murderer, Jaspal Atwal, held a press conference in Vancouver today. It didn't exactly put to rest all the questions about how he ended up invite it to an official reception with the prime minister in India. In fact, if anything, it actually raised a few new questions. Mr. Atwal began by reading from a prepared statement.

SOUNDCLIP

JASPAL ATWAL: In late December and January of this year, I made plans to once again travel to India. Before leaving Vancouver I reached out Mr. Sarai to see whether there was any possibility of attending the reception for the prime minister during the government trip to India. I was eventually provided an invitation by the Canadian ambassador and attended a reception. When my attendance became the news story that brings us here today, I was completely shocked and devastated. When I asked to consider attending the reception I had assumed there would be no problem. No one had at any point indicated there would be any issue. In 2013 and 2014 I had visited the House of Commons in Ottawa and was provided with clear visitor’s pass. In the end, I'm sorry for the embarrassment this matter has caused to Canada, to India, my community and family and friends. However, I want to again stress this terrible event that happened in the past as something I live with every day and take complete responsibility for. I, just like the Sikh community and India generally, have moved on from the issue that divided us almost 40 years ago.

JD: That was Jaspal Atwal reading from a statement at a press conference in Vancouver today. Mr. Atwal said nothing beyond that and left his lawyer Rishi Gill to field questions from reporters. Now as you may recall, an official in the prime minister's office had suggested that elements within the Indian government might have been responsible for the embarrassment surrounding Mr. Atwal’s invitation. Mr. Gill was asked just what Mr. Atwal relationship with the Indian government might be.

SOUNDCLIP

RISHI GILL: He was never approached to discuss this, no absolutely not. Again, this is not the first time that he has gone to a political event. And again, I think it's very clear — let's make sure this is on the record — that Mr. Atwal presents absolutely no security threat to this country or any other country. And the best example of that is the one country that was, I mean, Canada was affected obviously, but directly affected by the incident that occurred was India. An Indian National state politician was almost killed by Mr. Atwal, he doesn't deny that. India has let him back into the country to visit, India provided three visas. Now if India has no problem with him attending, given the concern, and security officials that have been reported in the media have been quoted as saying he doesn't pose a threat, he was a political embarrassment apparently to the prime minister. And, you know, that's obviously accepted — the fact that he was not approached did not surprise him but if there is further measures that need to be taken that's up to the government.

REPORTER: How would you describe Mr. Atwal's relationship with government officials in India?

RG: The only relationship to Mr. Atwal has, that he's here to advise anybody of today that I'm aware of, that I've been made aware of, is that he has facilitated radio interviews because he's involved in the media. But as far as being some sort of agent, as I said, if somebody was to give me a specific example of when he's done this or what evidence they have I'd like to hear it. And I'll say this again for probably the fifth or sixth time if anybody has a specific accusation where somebody can say ‘Hey he was seen in the company of this person for hours and then immediately after he did this,’ then let's get that out there. He's not hiding from that. Give me that before anybody asks questions that are just based on really specious accusations, that's really disgraceful, quite frankly.

REPORTER: It's not accusation, it's a simple question. What kind of relationship does he have with Indian diplomats?

RG: There is nothing more than a relationship where you facilitate contact with radio stations and say you want to be interviewing the Punjabi community any more than you'd be facilitating contact with members of the Indian community in Canada. So there's no close relationship with any diplomats, and again, if somebody has information the contrary, let's hear it .

JD: That was Jaspal Atwal’s lawyer, Rishi Gill, speaking at a press conference in Vancouver today.

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Part 3: Rowan's Law, Wildlife Management

Rowan's Law

Guest: Gordon Stringer

JD: This week the Ontario government passed Canada's first legislation regarding concussion. It is called Rowans Law. It is named for Rowan Stringer, a 17-year-old girl who died in 2013 after sustaining multiple concussions playing rugby for John McCrae High School in Nepean, Ontario. For the past five years Rowan’s father, Gordon Stringer, has worked alongside a variety of concussion experts, including former NHLer Eric Lindros, to draft the bill which became law on Tuesday. We reach Gordon stringer in Nepean.

CO: Gordon, that was quite an accomplishment in Queen’s Park on Tuesday. What was it like to see Rowan's Law pass?

GORDON STRINGER: It was pretty special, very gratifying to sit in the gallery at the legislature and see every member of all the parties represented stand up and support it. Those are pretty special moments.

CO: It was absolutely everybody who supported this, so just give us an idea what this Rowan’s Law, named after your daughter, what does it bring about in the way of changes?

GS: It is the first, it's the pioneering legislation and it really brings about prevention in the sense that there are education pieces in there, it's going to make it mandatory for athletes, students, teachers, coaches, parents to all make themselves aware of and educate themselves around the signs and symptoms of concussion and how to watch out for them in various sports and activities. It's going to put into place standardized return-to-learn and return-to-play protocols for those unfortunate enough to have suffered a concussion and proper management to get back to their normal baselines in both education and support.

CO: Your daughter Rowan, for whom this law was named, she suffered what's called second impact syndrome. Can I ask you what happened to her?

GS: Through the inquest we learned that they believe she suffered three concussions within a week. She played — they had a preseason rugby tournament on Friday — she apparently took a hit that day. She seemed OK. She did wake up Saturday, had a headache. You know, she didn't say anything to us about the hit on Friday and she was a kid that in her normal everyday life she seemed to get headaches so it didn't really ring any bells with us. And then she had a game Wednesday afternoon again with her high school team and in that game there was something called a swing tackle, it's not a legal tackle in rugby. She was carrying the ball and the opposing player grabbed her by the jersey and essentially threw her through the air using her Rowan’s momentum. And we were told — we were not the game we were told she landed on her head. She sat up briefly on the field, put her hand to her head and then lost consciousness and she was taken to the hospital, but she never did regain consciousness. And then that Sunday May the 12th she was pronounced brain dead.

CO: Mr. Stringer, so, so sorry what happened to your daughter.

GS: Thank you, I appreciate that. No parent should ever have to do this but unfortunately it happens far too often.

CO: It makes me think of all the times that in my life, and I'm sure others know the same thing, that when we saw young family members, friends being cheered on as they run back onto the field after an injury, and they're regarded as heroes for having done that. Is that what has to change? I mean, there's a law about protocols and whatnot, but there's a big attitude about sports and injuries. That's a problem isn't there?

GS: Yeah, I think in Canada we hear about a lot in the playoffs or at the end of the playoffs you hear about all these played through all their injuries and how strong they were. And in certain instances maybe that is noble but when it comes to a brain injury it's an insidious injury and, you know, you can't put a cast on it and have it heal like you can a broken bone or a fracture or something. It needs time to heal on its own and it needs to have the proper medical treatment and attention paid to it.

CO: Though having a law about it, I mean, this is you're talking about an attitudinal change that is required, a perception but having a law about codes of conduct and protocol and mandatory education. Is there a danger that teachers and coaches, many of whom are volunteers, that they'll decide that there are too many liability issues now to take part in these sports, is that a danger?

GS: I don't believe so because the law itself doesn't contain any punitive measures. It was never the intention of the committee or the government or ourselves that, you know, people who are volunteering their time to coach kids or to be a trainer on a team, that they be penalized if someone slips through the cracks and I really don't think we need to have punitive measures in there because if everybody abides by what Rowan’s Law says there's going to be a lot more eyes on the field, a lot more people looking out for each other and looking out for their teammates.

CO: What do you think Rowan would say about this bill, this law named after her?

GS: I think first of all, she'd probably have a chuckle about it, she'd be tickled that something was named after her for this. I'd like to think she'd be proud of us for the work we've done, I think she would be. And I think she'd be pretty proud of that part of her legacy is going to be, you know, something that's been designed to help out kids in sport. She was a very active kid and she had been accepted into university to go into nursing. Her whole idea was she was going to go into pediatric nursing. She wanted to work at CHEO here in Ottawa and help kids. And in a way this is delivering on her dream to help kids and to help them be safe and healthy. So I think she'd be pretty happy about it.

CO: Mr. Stringer, this just doing, I really appreciate all the work you put into this. And thank you for speaking with us.

GS: Thank you very much for having me, Carol. I appreciate the time.

CO: Bye-bye.

GS: Bye.

JD: Gordon Stringer is the father of Rowan Stringer, a 17-year-old girl who died after sustaining multiple concussions playing rugby in 2013. She was the inspiration for Rowan's law, which was passed on Tuesday by the Ontario government. We reached Mr. Stringer in Nepean.

[Music: Piano Ballad]

Viola Desmond

Guest: Professor Kenneth Catania

JD: So long John A. MacDonald, hello Viola Desmond. Today in Halifax the Bank of Canada revealed the new face of the ten dollar bill. She is not a former prime minister or a monarch. Viola Desmond is an African-Nova Scotian woman who refused to leave a whites-only section of a new Glasgow movie theatre in 1946. She was dragged out of the theatre by police and thrown in jail. In the audience at the unveiling of the new bill was Viola Desmond’s sister Wanda Robson. We spoke with Ms. Robson in 2016 when it was first announced that her sister would be on the bill. Here is part of that conversation from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

WANDA ROBSON: I’m feeling so proud, so excited and proud. I want to open a window and tell everybody.

CO: Well, I don't think you have to, I think you are telling everybody who your sister is. Can you just take us back? This is 70 years ago that your sister Viola was arrested and thrown into jail for refusing to leave a whites-only section of a movie theater in Nova Scotia. What do you remember about that day.

WR: Yeah, it was unbelievable. She had been arrested and of course I was a teenager then and I thought ‘arrested?’ And she went to jail. Jail? My sister? When it did finally sink in what she had done and what had happened I could hardly believe that she'd been arrested for sitting in a certain part of a theater.

CO: What do you think your sister would think, what would Viola think? What would she say, how would you react if she knew that she was going to grace this bill because of what she had done — that her image will be on the ten dollar bill?

WR: You know, I pause because I close my eyes I can see her face. If she would look she'd say ‘Oh, I wish I could tell our mother and father, wouldn't they just be so proud?’

CO: Would she be proud?

WR: Definitely, quietly proud to have this honour. I think there was a bit of a surprise and then happiness for her family, for mom and dad — and then for herself.

JD: From our archives, that was Carol in conversation with Wanda Robson in 2016. Today Ms. Robson's sister, Viola Desmond, officially became the new face of the ten dollar bill.

[Music: Whimsical Chimes]

Iranian family

Guest:

JD: Three of them went to an airport in Iran to get on a flight to Canada — only two were allowed to board. This afternoon the sons of a Canadian-Iranian professor who died in a Tehran prison arrived at the Vancouver airport. Their mother was not with them as they had hoped. According to the sons she was banned from leaving the country and had her Iranian passport taken away. It comes after their father, Kavous Seyed Emami, was arrested and accused of spying. Then weeks later authorities said he had died of suicide. Some have disputed that. Ramin Seyed Emami is one of Kavous Seyed Emami’s sons who arrived in Canada today. Here's part of what he said to reporters at the airport in Vancouver.

SOUNDCLIP

RAMIN SEYED EMAMI: This chaotic ordeal starting with our father's unexpected arrest, the raiding of our home, and our father's subsequent death, followed by smear campaigns harassment and threats has only been intensified now that the authorities have not allowed her mom to leave the country. My father's death will not be in vain. The least my brother and I can do is speak up to reveal Kavous Seyed Emami’s story — of a kind father, a loving husband and a respected sociology professor of 27 years. I know he would have been proud of us now. We have chosen to speak up. We have chosen love over fear. Our mother is fine. Her passport has been taken away. I have friends with her at all times. I don't want her to be alone for one single second. The foreign minister herself called her, which was a very respectful gesture and to give comfort to my mom that she's going to be fine she’s going to be OK. And yes she's going to be home back over here very soon.

REPORTER: What was that moment like when you had to leave here?

RSE: She just wanted us to be safe sitting on that plane.

[SOBBING]

RSE: She said ‘I just want you guys to be safe and away from this horrible place. And no matter what happens to me don't ever come back.’

JD: That was Ramin Seyed Emami speaking at the Vancouver airport earlier today. He was joined by his brother Meron and they say their mother, Maryam Mombini, was not allowed to board a flight from Iran to Canada. Omar Alghabra was also at the airport. Mr. Alghabra is the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs Chrystia Freeland. Ms. Freeland has said in a statement that she is quote “outraged” and she is calling on Iran to allow Ms. Mombini to travel to Canada. Here is some of what Mr. Alghabra said today on behalf of the minister.

SOUNDCLIP

OMAR ALGHABRA: The minister by the way spoke with the mother this morning directly, Minister Friedland's spoke with the mother on the phone, again ,to reassure her that we're going to apply all kinds of diplomatic pressure to see her reunited with her family.

REPORTER: What are your options? Canada doesn’t even have diplomatic ties with Iran and no embassy, so what can Canada possibly do?

OA: We are exercising direct channels through the mission at the United Nations and also through our partners in Italy. Italy is the protecting powers for Canada. We actually have a request, the minister has requested — our minister has requested to speak directly with Minister Zarif, the Iranian minister for foreign affairs, so we're going to explore all options to ensure that the Iranian government hears our message and the mother is reunited with her son.

REPORTER: What reply did she get to her request to speak to the Iranian foreign minister?

OA: So we continue to repeat we are not receiving a response yet, so we continue to make that request.

JD: Omar Alghabra is the parliamentary secretary to Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland.

[Music: Bass Guitar]

Wildlife Management

Guest: Kyle Artelle

JD: Managing animal populations is not rocket science. It should however be various other kinds of science. But a new study has found that in a disturbing number of cases it in fact is not. The study looked at how dozens of species are managed in Canada and in the United States, and it found that in a majority of cases wildlife management agencies lack fundamental hallmarks of science when making big decisions about big game animals like deer and elk. Kyle Artelle is a researcher at the University of Victoria and the co-author of the study, which was published this week in the journal Science Advances. We reached Mr. Artelle in Victoria.

CO: Mr. Artelle, what surprised you most in the findings of your study?

KYLE ARTELLE: I think a couple of things. First of all, it’s just the overall pattern that we found. We certainly weren't expecting all the systems across Canada and the U.S. to score perfectly but we were certainly surprised that the majority of systems that we looked at had less than half of the specific criteria we were looking for.

CO: Before you go on, just maybe just explain what is a wildlife management system, what does that what does that include?

KA: Yes so that would just be for example moose hunting in Alaska would be considered a wildlife management system a different one might be black bear hunting in Ontario. But it's basically a single species managed by a provincial or federal wildlife management agency.

CO: And what did you find as to what was lacking in their system?

KA: So we looked for four different — these hallmarks of science as we call them. So for example clear objectives, transparency, external review and the use of evidence. And we found all of these different categories lacking in sort of different doses. One, for example, that was lacking almost entirely across the board with external scrutiny. So basically independent outside bodies checking, double checking the work of these agencies. We only found evidence of that in six per cent of the systems we looked at despite that being sort of a core foundational requirement of scientific approaches.

CO: And why does it matter? What do the wildlife management systems do? I mean, what decisions are made based on them?

KA: So for what we looked at we were specifically looking at hunt management. And so in many cases hunting is the largest source of mortality in many of these species. Ao it could be a management error if there's if there's not a sort of credible rigorous approach guiding it, and it's quite possible it could have unintended consequences on the populations being managed — and these populations sort of span the gamut of birds mammals etc..

CO: You're aware that a lot of people are suspicious of science? For instance, you're talking about hunting, but there's also harvesting of animals and in the fishing communities they say on the east coast, they believe the cod stocks have returned, the fishermen can see that they're aware of it in their nets and yet the science says no it hasn't. And so decisions are based on that. Indigenous populations will say the polar bears are this or that in strength and science says no it's not — or some other kind of species. These are the people who live in these places. Does that matter, does their perception, their evidence based on what they're seeing, does that matter to science?

KA: Yeah, absolutely it does. And there are other ways to generate knowledge, science isn't the only approach. And I think one way that some of these loggerheads can be addressed is in one of the hallmarks of science itself and that's transparency. So I think if we have a case where a given agency is defending their preferred policy on the basis that it's science-based and they sort of say this is scientific and that's why we're doing it full stop without sharing the evidence that underlies it, without sharing the different approaches used. And I think this is where we can get into this problematic relationship whereas, you know, the Indigenous example of course Indigenous approaches are evidence-based as well. So I don't think that these are as incompatible as it sometimes might appear but I think what we really need to know is where the science begins and ends in these decisions and there needs to be transparency and openness about that. And when some other considerations come into effect whether it be politics, whether it be economics.

CO: Do think that local populations, Indigenous populations shouls maybe challenge the policies and limitations of the hunting and harvesting laws and quotas given the fact that you're finding so little of it's based on science?

KA: Well, in these cases where there's wildlife management agencies, again, using this term of science to sort of force through policies then I think that that might be the case. An example on B.C.’s coast here the trophy hunting of grizzly bears, which is only been this last fall, was highly opposed in British Columbia on the coast. So the Indigenous communities through that sort of central coast for example the coastal first nations in general, banned grizzly bear hunting in 2012 based on tribal law. And this wasn't respected by the province. And again using this science-based defense and this was the case where we actually looked under the hood of that management approach and we found that there were certainly some concerns with the approach that those bears were managed. I think that's a good example where again the scientific basis is used to defend a preferred policy and is even used to defend a proffered policy that is at odds with the sort of tribal law of nations on whose lands it sort of being enacted, when you sort of look under the surface there is certainly cause for question.

CO: So what should we do with your study, what would that change?

KA: We just need to, as a public, ask questions when we're being told that a given policy is based on science and that we should sort of follow that policy because of its scientific basis, that we should ask questions but what does that mean. And if we find that there's other factors that are influencing a decision then I think it's really important that we have an honest discussion.

CO: All right very interesting Mr. Artelle, thank you. Thank you.

JD: Kyle Artelle is a researcher at the University of Victoria and the the Rain Coast Conservation Foundation. We reached him in Victoria.

McDonald’s W

SOUNDCLIP

90s McDonald’s Theme Song

JD: It has been more than 20 years since McDonald abandoned that slogan. But if you're a woman, the chain is trying to offer you a break today — unless you've been told what's going on at the location in Lynwood California though, it will look more like something broken than a break, because someone has turned the so-called golden arches — that stylized yellow M — upside down. And all over social media all the McDonald's M's are W’s. What kind of silly prank could that be? But it's not a silly prank at all. It's a solidarity prank — gesture. Because an upside down M is a W for women. In a statement issued this week, McDonald's global chief diversity officer, Wendy Lewis, said quote “In celebration of women everywhere and for the first time in our brand history we flipped our iconic arches for International Women's Day in honour of the extraordinary accomplishments of women everywhere, and especially in our restaurants.” unquote. Now it's true that according to Ms. Lewis 62 per cent of employees and 60 per cent of McDonald's restaurant managers are women. Of course it's also true that just 30 per cent of its top executives are women, which is one of the reasons people have responded so archly to the flipped arches. Another being that the chain pays the vast majority of its workers — well a little bit above minimum wage — but a bit below a living wage. And so women aren't exactly flipping out over the symbolically inverted M and not for the first time since that slogan was retired, they're wishing McDonald's would just give them a break today.

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March 8, 2018 episode transcript

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