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The AIH Transcript for January 26, 2018

Hosts: Helen Mann and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello. I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglass. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

HM: Take us to our leader. Less than 48 hours after Patrick Brown's abrupt resignation, the Ontario PC Party appoints an interim leader. And then announces that within two months, it would let 200,000 members decide on a new one.

JD: Where there's intent to fire, there's fire. After reports that Donald Trump tried to dismiss Special Counsel Robert Mueller, our guest says an obstruction of justice charge is more likely than ever.

HM: Principled journalism. The editor of a Utah high school paper cries censorship, after authorities delete the paper's big scoop about a teacher who left, and the evidence of his inappropriate behavior.

JD: It was a role model. But now, after more than 50 years, the annual cheese roll in the British village of Stilton is cancelled this year. And the organizers say that's because, like a nice room-temperature Brie, “it's no longer seen as cool”.

HM: He started in the ‘40s, and it was all downhill from there. Remembering Warren Miller, the pioneering director who lugged the heaviest equipment on the slopes to capture skiers carving through powder.

JD: And… mirrored anarchy is loosed upon the world. A company that sent a big, reflective sphere into space says it's meant to bring people together. And it has, especially astronomers, who say giant disco ball in the sky is just shiny garbage.

JD: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that thinks this reflects badly on us.

[Music: Theme]

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Part one: Patrick Brown new leader, Utah paper, Stilton Cheese Roll

Patrick Brown new leader

Guest: Rod Phillips

JD: It's been less than 48 hours since Patrick Brown resigned, and the Ontario PC's have a new face at the helm — for now. Today, Vic Fedeli, a Northern Ontario MPP, was named as interim leader. But listening to his press conference this afternoon, you'd think he was there for good.

SOUNDCLIP

VIC FEDELI: I am the party leader. I was elected party leader by our caucus today. We made a unanimous decision in caucus. That decision was turned over, correctly, to the executive, and we will hear from them shortly.

REPORTER: So you want to be the party leader into the election?

VF: Look, I've always said — I've said you know since this started all two days ago — I've always said how I felt about the fact that we need to be decisive. And we have one opponent here: it's not ourselves. The opponent is Kathleen Wynne and the damage that she's done to Ontario. We need to spend time addressing those needs, continue to get our platform out where we can bring real relief to families. That's what we should be spending our time. That's my personal belief.

JD: That was Ontario PC Party Interim Leader, Vic Fedeli, speaking earlier today. Earlier today, the party was split over whether to let the caucus pick a candidate, like Mr. Fedeli, to run in the June provincial election, or to hold a leadership contest — allowing its 200,000 members to vote. Just before we went to air, they went with Option 2. The plan is to have a new Progressive Conservative leader by the end of March. Rod Phillips is an Ontario PC MPP candidate for Ajax, and the former head of the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation. We reached him in Toronto.

HM: Rod Phillips, We have just learned that your party will let its members vote on a new leader before the provincial election in June. What are your thoughts on that?

ROD PHILLIPS: Well, I'm very, very pleased for the party members. I'm very pleased for the candidates. As you know a number of candidates, including myself, had sent a letter to the executive saying that this was important to make sure that we had an open process. And to make sure that the leader that gets elected has a mandate from those 200,000 party members that the Ontario PC Party has. So that's the way to make sure we beat Kathleen Wynne. And I'm quite pleased for party members. I think it's a victory for them tonight.

HM: There were 28 of you who actually signed that letter. Do you think that was what persuaded the executive to make this move?

RP: I think the executive probably weighed all the options. And I think, of course, the fact that nominated candidates coming from the ridings that we have to win I run in the riding of Ajax it's a great town a great riding, but it's the kind of riding that the Ontario PCs are going to need to be winning to be Kathleen Wynne. So I would imagine that that had an impact, but I'm sure they weighed all the pros and the cons, and they've certainly made the right decision, and I commend them for that.

HM: You know we are just 132 days away from that election. I'm sure the other parties are heavily in election planning. Do you really think you have time for a leadership selection process while that's going on?

RP: You know this is a situation that none of us would've wanted. The events of a few days ago were a shock to all of us. So we're dealing with a difficult situation, but I do have confidence in the party. I do have confidence in the officials and the volunteers who will run the process. We can do this, and I think in doing it, we'll get a few advantages. You'll see that the process that we'll be going through will be attracting attention. One of the issues we've had is getting attention to a great plan and to the great team that we have. It will also mean that we'll be activating a portion or all or even many more than those 200,000 volunteers. I remind you that the Liberal Party only has 12,000 members. So a lot of those people getting active is good. And finally, at the end of it, the leader will have a mandate and be able to run not as the interim leader against Kathleen Wynne, which I think could have raised all kinds of issues. But as the leader of the PC Party of Ontario, I think it's important. Not easy, but sometimes what's right isn't easy, and this was the right thing to do.

HM: Yeah, in pragmatic terms though, 200,000 votes that sounds like a difficult thing to organize in such a short timeframe. How do you see it working?

RP: Well, you know the Ontario PC Party for a number of years now has had a one member one vote system, so in some other kinds of electoral systems where they have delegates and meetings that have to elect those delegates, it would be more complicated. But because all those members — plus new members — will get a chance to participate, I have confidence in the party and confidence in the party members. It'll go well.

HM: Do you think that this is fair to Ontario voters that they're going to have a much shorter time to get to know a leader that they might want to pin their hopes on if they're looking indeed to have some kind of change?

RP: The situation isn't ideal, and no one would have wanted to be in that situation. But the other option was for us to have an interim leader, and that would have been a leader that would had to be confirmed after the election. I think that would've been much more problematic. At least now, the voters will see that this is the leader that the party wants to put forward their vision with their team with their plan. I think the voters of Ontario will respond well to that.

HM: So does this mean that your party will just slap the face of the new leader on the existing platform documents that they've produced?

RP: Well, you're going outside my area of expertise in terms of publishing right now. So I'm not sure…

HM: But that goes beyond publishing; we’re talking about the platform itself.

RP: Well, I mean there will no doubt be a discussion of ideas, but there has been a great reaction to the platform so far. The talk about reducing taxes for the bottom two brackets, the hydro rate reductions, the two-billion dollars for mental health — the most ever spent by any Ontario government. So lots of very positive things that I think certainly in my time at Ajax responses at the door's have been very positive of those. I think you'll see an active debate of ideas, but there is a lot of support. You have to remember that party platform came up from party members, so I think people will see that platform. But they'll also see a team and a leader that is fresh and has a mandate.

HM: You say it would be less than ideal if the interim leader picked today were to be the permanent leader that continued forward without a process. But Mr. Fedeli — Vic Fedeli — was pretty clear today that he thought he should stay on and lead the party into the election. Is there some division here between some of the people in the party and where things should go?

RP: I’m betting that there was a difference of opinion. You know Vic Fedeli he is a great finance critic, and one of our best members. And would have been a leader that we could have followed into an election, but we would have missed that opportunity. I think it's very important for party members to have that opportunity to select the leader that they want. And now, they're going to have it, and I think that's the best way forward. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Vic Fedeli on the ballot.

HM: So are you going to be on the ballot too?

RP: Well, the news just broke, as you said, so obviously, I have some thinking about that to do. We have been getting some great encouragement from across the province from candidates that are currently nominated and from members. But those are decisions that are that are in front of us. I'm just pleased today that the party executive decided. I'm really pleased for the party members.

HM: Yeah, you’re thinking about it, but you're also sort of surveying the kind of support you might get?

RP: Well, with the 48 hours that we've had, you don't have to do a lot of overt surveying. I can tell you there's been a lot of phone calls and e-mails flying in the world of PC politics. It's been a very busy couple of days.

HM: Do you think that the party can come back from the hit it's taken this week?

RP: I do. We have a very good team. We do have, as I mentioned, a very good platform with things that are going to tackle the main issues that Ontarians are worried about. They want an accountable government, and they want affordability be considered for it for their families. So I think we're on the right track, and I think this frankly is going to give us a chance to put a fresh face. There's going to be dialogue. There’s going to be attention. We're going to be out on As It Happens and other shows, talking about our leadership. I think that that's a great opportunity. So yes, I'm absolutely very confident that we can come back, and I think we'll beat Kathleen Wynne.

HM: All right. Mr. Phillips, thanks for talking to us.

RP: Thank you very much.

HM: Bye bye.

RP: Bye bye.

JD: Rod Phillips is an Ontario Provincial Progressive Conservative candidate for Ajax. We reached him in Toronto.

[Music: Pop]

Utah paper

Guest: Max Gordon

JD: Max Gordon had the biggest story in his paper's history. Then his high school had it spiked. Mr. Gordon is the Editor-in-Chief at the Herriman Telegraph at Herriman High School in Herriman, Utah. Last Thursday, the paper posted the results of an investigation. It was headlined "Herriman High Teacher Fired For Misconduct." By Friday morning, school authorities had had that story deleted. Now, the piece is back online, at the site of the brand-new Herriman Telegram — where Max Gordon is the 17-year-old Editor-in-Chief. We reached Mr. Gordon in Harriman.

HM: Max Gordon, what reasons were you given for your story being spiked?

MAX GORDON: Well, so far the administration has actually not given us a reason yet. We've sent multiple e-mails to the administration and the school district, but they still have not responded or given us an exact reason why they took our article down.

HM: Now, you haven't got a direct answer from the administration, but we have a quote from the Salt Lake Tribune. It's quoting a spokesperson for the district saying, and this is a direct quote, “The changes were made to ensure that the student's journalistic work is accurate, appropriate, and informative. We are the publisher of that newspaper, and because of that, we have to watch out for our students.” What do you think?

MG: The interesting part about that is we did send the article to a vice principal to review because, in order to get approval for the print edition, which we hand out physical paper copies, we do have to have a vice principal review our story. He made several corrections, and of those corrections, we made every single one of them. So at the Telegraph, we believe that if there were inaccuracies in story, it is strange that they didn't point them out then and there. And on that approval, we still have not received a direct denial for the print yet either. They have not responded to that request to approve that for print.

HM: Your story describes allegations of misconduct made against this teacher. It's a story that clearly could have some real impact on people's lives. Tell us what you did to make sure that you were doing solid, responsible journalism?

MG: So we made sure if we ever reported something we had multiple sources. And we made sure we got sources on record — that way if there was ever any question about our sources we would have that physical evidence that they spoke. We also relied on open-record requests, so that information we got, and we're using in a story directly from the school district's own records. And we also had multiple editors on my staff, including myself, look over the article. We had legal counsel from the Student Press Law Center, as well as several other independent attorneys, look over everything to make sure we wouldn’t get into any legal trouble and that everything they were doing was legal. And we also, as I mentioned, the vice principal made several changes that were fair, and we made those changes. And so at that point with all that work we believed that we had a story that could be published and that was accurate.

HM: Is there anything you can think about — any reason — that that information about the teacher and the situation involving them would not be public information?

MG: The only way I could see it not being public information is if the district made a privacy settlement with the individual. I do not think that is likely, and I believe that if a teacher is fired, especially for inappropriate conduct with a student, other parents who’s students had that teacher have the right to know, so that maybe they can talk to their kids and find out whether or not they also had inappropriate contact with that teacher. And also, so that in the future, other school districts may know that this occurred and won't hire him. Because that does seem like it may have been a problem in the past where I believe the Boston Globe story on this where teachers get fired, and schools don't report that the other schools, and then they get hired again, and then later get fired for the same reason, and then it's just a cycle because schools don't communicate with each other.

HM: What do you think that the school and the school district are afraid of in terms of you publishing this information?

MG: Originally, I think they didn't want it to get out there that this was all going on because they had been trying to keep it under wraps. When we did originally talk to them, they tried to tell us that they couldn't tell us anything because of FERPA laws. But FERPA laws only apply to student privacy rights. And then when we called them out on that, they just started using vague terms about why they couldn't. And we also have an administration source from his previous school who told us they didn't make a reference check on the teacher. And especially when our story started to get publicity, I think they had a knee-jerk reaction and took it down.

HM: Do you think it's possible that the administration — that the district — was just trying to protect possibly themselves, but also you from potential litigation?

MG: There is the possibility that they did not want a lawsuit filed against them. But we believe that if that was the case, then they'd would have pointed out the inaccuracy that would have led to a lawsuit in our article, instead of just brushing it off and taking the article down. At a certain point, we believe if there were these major inaccuracies, they would tell us.

HM: But could they also be protecting you and your families from potential litigation?

MG: It's possible, but that is also why we had a legal counsel to make sure that everything we wrote was legal, and that we wouldn't be susceptible to any lawsuits. And if the school district responded to our story and said hey, we want to have our own lawyers look over this, or you know can you hold off on this. You know I think we would be happy to have complied. But when there's no communication at all, except for just taking it down, then I have no reason to believe that that is why they took it down.

HM: What kind of response that you have from your fellow students?

MG: Incredibly positive. Just walking around the hallways, students have come congratulating us our new website, on what we did, our work that we accomplished. And it's not just the students either, we've had multiple teachers come forward supporting us, especially in the English department. Just sitting in the newsroom during the class period that the newspaper is in, multiple teachers will put their heads in and congratulate us on what we did. So the support from the school has been amazing.

HM: Well, Max Gordon, I appreciate you taking us through the whole story. Thanks very much, and good luck to you.

MG: Thanks for reaching out.

HM: OK. Bye.

MG: Bye.

JD: Max Gordon is the Editor-in-Chief of both the Herriman Telegram and the Herriman Telegraph. We reached him in Harriman, Utah. And, to be clear, the school district has not said how the teacher in question came to leave the school. We do have more on that story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Spanish guitar]

Stilton Cheese Roll

Guest: Olive Main

JD: They held on to it for as long as they possibly could. But now, they've cut the cheese. For more than 50 years, the British village of Stilton has held a major, annual cheese-rolling event. This year, however, that event is out of the rotation. It's been cancelled. Olive Main organizes the event and chairs the Stilton Community Association. We reached her in Stilton, UK.

HM: Ms. Main, I think, first of all, we need to know exactly what the Stilton cheese rolling event is? How does it actually work?

OLIVE MAIN: Well, it's really our village festival. The actual cheese rolling, we don't roll proper Stilton cheese — that would be extremely expensive and very smelly. We have wooden cylinders that we paint to look like cheeses. And they are rolled along our High Street. Now, our High Street was the old Roman road that went from London to York, and then up to Scotland. And so it's quite straight, and it's quite wide.

HM: Is anyone ever disappointed that it's not an actual cheese that they're rolling?

OM: Well, yes. We did, in fact, one year roll proper cheeses. We were sponsored by one of the big supermarkets, and they decided they wanted to do the real thing, and they froze them. That was very, very wasteful. And we spent hours picking the grit out of the cheeses so that we could eat the inside bits. So it's not really very feasible.

HM: No, and it seems like a terrible waste of my favourite cheese too. So how did the event get started in the first place?

OM: Well, it started about 60 years ago. Our village, as I said, had the Great North Road, the A1, the country's major road, growing right through the middle of it. And in the late ‘50s, we were bypassed. And so nothing ever came through. And our reason for existing virtually collapsed as well. Things like the cafes and the garages and the restaurants and the pubs all began to close. And it was a bit sad. And it was two on the pub owners, who on an Easter Monday, were bemoaning their fate and saying they were going to have to close soon when somebody came up with this idea of some kind of village fete to bring people in for a bit of a trade.

HM: Why did you have to cancel it this year?

OM: A whole combination of events: costs have risen dramatically in recent years, and the last two years have really not made any money. It's also a great regulation of what we call health and safety. Lots of bureaucratic rules that we now have to obey, and that cost money as well. General congestion, we are a fairly small village, and I think generally, it's gone on a bit too long. You know we've done the same things year after year, and people have got a bit jaded. And the enthusiasm has sort of passed by.

HM: So how many people tried to get in this year? How many people registered?

OM: Well, we started off with two mens’ and three ladies’ teams registered, whereas we wanted 16 men and 12 women. We trialed around and went into all the pubs and dragged people out. We eventually got enough teams — I think eight of each — to have a cheese runn8ing, but we shouldn't have to do that. It should be something that people want to do or are excited to do. We haven't killed it by any means; we very much hope to back in 2019.

HM: You know we've covered a lot of cheese rolling events on this program in the past in Cheshire, elsewhere, and some of them ended up having to be cancelled because they were so dangerous and the organizers couldn't afford the insurance. Yours does not have any steep or rocky hills or anything like that, does it?

OM: Well, no. We are in Cambridgeshire; we're on the edge of the East Anglia — the lowest, flattest part of England — so we don't have a hill in sight. I know Gloucester, particular, they throw a chase down the hill, and people scramble down behind it. And I think that is quite dangerous. I think we've had a broken shoulder blade, but generally, it’s just bruises and scratches. But our insurance is quite enough.

HM: So how are people reacting to the news that you've cancelled the event for this year?

OM Very varied. As you can imagine, a fair amount of well I suppose disappointment. But generally speaking, the Facebook messages have been very supportive. And I must say there is a group of people who are only too pleased because it is that it disrupted of life for the day.

HM: I just have to clarify, is Stilton still produced in the area?

OM: No, it's a very long story, and there's still a great deal of mystery about it. Cheese must have been made in Stilton because it's that kind of a place, you know? It had lots of pasture and lots of cows and lots of milk. But what we now call Stilton has never been made here and can’t be by law. It can only be made slightly further north is Darbishire and Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire.

HM: I think they should be paying for your festival.

OM: Well, I mean our name is famous. And the least we can do is make the most of it.

HM: Well, good luck getting things back on track for next year. And thank you for sharing the story with us.

OM: And thank you for your interest. We feel very flattered that so far away that you want to know about it.

HM: We like cheese rolling on this show, and we all really like cheese. So thank you.

OM: Well, Thank you very much indeed.

HM: Bye bye.

OM: Bye bye.

JD: That was Olive Main, the organizer of the Stilton cheese rolling event, and chair of the Stilton Community Association. We reached her in Stilton. And if you want to see what that cheese roll race looks like, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. Oh, and incidentally, you would have to roll a wheel of Stilton — or a round piece of wood — 124 kilometres in a south-westerly direction to reach Reading.

[Music: Folk]

Boris Johnson mummy

JD: Boris Johnson is a man of contradictions — many of which have come out of his own mouth. He's reversed positions. He's offended people, cities, countries, and entire continents — and then apologized. And on the subject of Brexit, well, we don't have time, do we? My point is that the British Foreign Minister is mercurial. And now we've learned that he comes by that honestly. Scientists have finally discovered the identity of a woman whose remains were found in a church in Basel, Switzerland, back in 1975. It wasn't easy: there was no headstone; she had been there for centuries. But they had a few things to go on. One, that only the fancy families of Basel were given plots in and around that particular church. And two, whoever she was, she was chock-full of mercury. Yes, mercury, the stuff you should never have any of in your body. But from the 15th to the 19th centuries, it was used to treat syphilis. It...did not work. And, as you might guess, had some terrible side effects — most notably, death. In this case, though, it had another side effect: it preserved the woman's remains. And after finding a clue in the archives, scientists extracted DNA from her preserved big toe, and confirmed that the unfortunate, mummified, upper-class 18th-century Swiss woman with syphilis was: Anna Catharina Bischoff, a member of a distinguished Basel family, who lived from 1719 to 1787. And she was the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandmother of the slightly less toxically mercurial Boris Johnson. In response to this news, Mr. Johnson tweeted, quote: "Very excited to hear about my late great grand 'mummy' — a pioneer in sexual health care. Very proud." Unquote. Pretty inoffensive for him. But then, you know, he's mercurial like that.

Back To Top »

Part two: Trump Mueller, Humanity Star

Trump Mueller

Guest: Harry Litman

JD: Since his appointment in May of last year, Special Counsel Robert Mueller has been a thorn in the side of U.S. President Donald Trump. Now, we've learned that Mr. Trump may have tried to remove that thorn. Last night, the New York Times reported that, in June, the President tried to have Robert Mueller fired. He only backed off when White House counsel Donald McGahn threatened to quit. Harry Litman was deputy assistant attorney general under President Bill Clinton. We reached him in San Diego, California.

HM: Mr. Littman, you read that New York Times report that President Trump had tried to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller. When you did, what went through your mind?

HARRY LITMAN: Well, the first thing I thought about was how it fit in as an additional piece — a pretty compelling piece of evidence — about the obstruction case that the special counsel is assembling. There are no leaks coming from the special counsel's office, and we just know what we learned from either defense leaks or public events. But it seems as if things are very strong. And it said a lot that A, he was trying to fire Mueller. And B, he was concocting very farfetched excuses, which I don't think he would have done had the truth not been unpalatable. The reports were that he was saying maybe we can fire him because we once had a dispute about my golf club and that sort of thing.

HM: You know this apparently happened back in June. Why do you think Trump was wanting to dump Mueller at that point if you think back?

HL: Oh, I think he wanted to dump him from day one. Mueller is a pro. He is Eliot Ness and John Wayne and Henry Fonda anyone else all rolled into one. And I think Trump, justifiably, feared him and feared what he might uncover.

HM: So now, we're seven months later. And this week, Mr. Trump is saying he'd be glad to speak to Mr. Mueller and his team and do so under oath. Do you think he's had a big change of heart?

HL: No, I don't think it's true. You know not to put too fine a point on it. I think it's a finesse that when push comes to shove, he'll be trying to limit the interview in a way that Mueller or any prosecutor just can't countenance. The thing he wants to avoid is the thing that Mueller has to insist on, which is testimony — live testimony — with some legal sanction about the obstruction charges.

HM: The Times report says that White House counsel Don McGahn reportedly threatened to resign if Mr. Trump did indeed fire Mr. Mueller. And in your op-ed, you say that looks like a John Dean moment. Can you maybe explain what you mean by that?

HL: Sure. You know I'm a professor, and you know I lived through Watergate, but I know it's ancient history for a lot of my students. But so John Dean was the White House counsel under Nixon, and there was this important moment where he sat down with Nixon and said to him look, something's really awry; there's a cancer on the presidency. Now, I didn't mean to make an exact analogy. But rather just the stage of a kind of corrosive scandal where basically everyone in the White House begins to be paranoid, suspect that whatever they say is going to be delivered to the special counsel. So it’s that kind of sense when a scandal goes from a bother to a grave matter, and the White House finds itself seized with a sort of panic. That's what I was analogizing as a John Dean moment.

HM: So why do you think that we are just hearing about this now? Why these voices in the White House apparently leaking this information at this stage?

HL: Right. I mean this is really interesting. And four of them — and in concert — this is all in the area of wild surmise, but I do think that it suggests that among insiders the mood has soured and the odds of actual charges sticking against Trump I think have gone higher in their mind. So you would think of these people now as potentially, in classic Washington terms, kind of jockeying to exculpate themselves. Same thing has happened in the in the Nixon White House. So you know in June, it looked a little bit easier-going. And now, they've truly hit a terrible storm.

HM: So is that where the Mueller investigation is focused right now? Do you think on obstruction because we keep hearing that hearing the president saying collusion, no collusion?

HL: I know, I know. You know this has puzzled me for weeks. It's been I think very clear to anybody who looks at it that Mueller has been putting together an obstruction case. It's a much tighter case revolving around three or four little events. And those are the events that he's, obviously, been focused on very closely. The February 14th meeting in the Oval Office, the firing of Comey, so whenever the president would blithely say in public no collusion, no collusion, I was very struck does he actually not understand that it's the obstruction charge that's coming at him like a freight train? Or is this some kind of gambit to pretend? And it just seems like the dime dropped only in the last week.

HM: You sound pretty convinced that the president could actually face charges of obstruction. I guess the ultimate question is will that matter? Does it mean anything if a Republican-dominated Congress doesn't want to act on it?

HL: You know the conduct seems quite parallel to what brought Nixon down. But you're right, to date, the Congressional Republicans have been really of you know no mind to try to put country over party I'd say. I mean it really has been just political. So I do think there's a real risk. Risk isn't the way to put it, but I mean if Mueller brings these charges you know the Republican Congress may say oh, old news. Or maybe they're gearing up to say Mueller’s probe is biased et cetera. It's hard to see given the way they've conducted themselves. The Senate actually convicting and removing Trump, so when you say does it matter? You know it's no small thing. But, if I'm a betting man, I think that the president of the United States in January 2020 is Donald Trump.

HM: Harry Litman, thank you for speaking with us.

HL: Thanks for your time. Bye bye.

HM: Bye bye.

JD: Harry Litman is a former deputy assistant attorney general under President Bill Clinton. He teaches at the University of California at San Diego, in the Department of Political Science. And we reached him in San Diego.

[Music: Electronic]

Don Connolly retires

JD: This morning, more than 1,400 people crammed into the convention centre in Halifax to hear the host of "Information Morning", Don Connolly, sign off for the last time.

SOUNDCLIP

DON CONNOLLY: I want you to know that I appreciate not only the support that you have shown here for me personally. I understand that this is more than about me. I represent this program, this radio station, and the company. And I'm acutely aware of the fact that the affection to some extent is — to a large extent — about that. And I hope that you will welcome somebody in this chair, and be as kind and generous to them as you have been to me for a very long time. Thank you.

JD: For a very long time — for 42 years — Nova Scotians have woken up to that warm voice. Over the decades, Don Connolly estimates he's done more than 70,000 interviews. He built a community of loyal listeners — many of whom joined his friends, family, and colleagues this morning to celebrate his retirement. And here's how Don Munro, producer of CBC's "Information Morning Cape Breton", chose to honour his friend and colleague.

SOUNDCLIP

DON MUNRO: Laddies and gentlemen, I was invited to come down from Sydney because I was told by Louise this morning we would be celebrating a man who's been covering stories vital to our province for generations. A man whose provided insight and shed light on the biggest economic political and social issues of our time. A man whose wit, wisdom, compassion, and humour are on display in every interview he does. In short, I came to Halifax today because I wanted to honour a man who's loved by all Nova Scotians. But Steve Murphy was unavailable. He's good, isn't he? He’s so good! So instead, we're going to say a few words about Don Connolly. Yes, Don Connelly ladies and gentlemen, a man who is to radio Chef Boyardee is to cordon bleu cooking. Don Connolly, look at him ladies and gentlemen, a man who's always look like Mark Twain and Silver Donald Cameron had a baby, then bottle-fed it 40 years’ worth of coffee. For 42 years, Nova Scotians have been waking up with Don Connolly. And for 42 years, he's been putting them right back to sleep. Don's lovely wife Maureen is here this morning, and she’ll be the first to tell you that after four decades of radio, success hasn't changed Don one bit, or even come anywhere near him for that matter. I'll never forget the first time I met Don Connolly, although, I'll keep trying. It was in the summer of 1997 — it was in the smoking lounge at the CBC building — a lot of people used to smoke at CBC. We used to smoke like a five-alarm fire in that building actually. Don was scheduled to record an interview, so someone asked if I'd go get him in the smoking lounge. And I remember knocking on the door and walking in. Whereupon, the giant nuclear mushroom cloud of smoke came billowing out. The air was so thick I nearly chipped a tooth, but there was Don in a chair with his feet stretched out, simultaneously reading a book, The Daily News, and yes, his briefing notes. And while smoking, and carrying on a conversation with a fellow smoker. He looked up, and he said yes caller, you have a question, go ahead. And I laughed, and I thought you know what? I like this guy. And 21 years later, I still do very much. Don, on behalf of everyone in the CBC Cape Breton, and my wife, thank you very much for everything you've given me. And thank you for allowing me for doing news quiz, and bringing a little bit of foolishness on a Friday morning. God bless you Don Connolly. Laddies and gentlemen, Don Connolly

JD: CBC producer Don Munro roasting his friend and his colleague Don Connolly. This morning, after 42 years hosting CBC Halifax's "Information Morning", Don signed off for the last time. Enjoy the lie-ins, Don.

[Music: Piano]

Humanity Star

Guest: MikeBrown

JD: Last week, the private space company Rocket Lab blasted a payload into space from its launch pad in New Zealand. And after the launch, the company revealed a surprise. On board was not just a conventional satellite, but also a three-foot tall geodesic sphere it called a "Humanity Star". The Humanity Star will reflect light back at earth. And some claim that, for the nine months that it's in orbit, it will be the brightest human-made object in the night sky. That has some astronomers very upset. Mike Brown is a Professor of Planetary Astronomy at the California Institute of Technology. We reached him in Pasadena.

HM: Professor Brown, when you first heard that Rocket Lab had secretly launched this big, reflective orb into space, what did you think?

MIKE BROWN: I was shocked. You know the very first report I saw said that it was going to be the brightest manmade thing that you could see in the sky. And there are some pretty bright manmade things in the sky, so I thought this was going to be this huge glare up in the sky. And I just I got livid. I was mad for the next couple of hours as I kept on thinking about it.

HM: And did you keep that angry, or has it subsided a little bit?

MB: You know as I've realized that the original reports are a little bit overhyped, it's actually probably going to be pretty hard to see. So I'm not as irritated by the actual object up there because I don't think most people will even notice that it exists as by the idea. The idea that we should use the sky as a place to you know basically just do advertising.

HM: You've actually called it “space graffiti”. Why?

MB: That's exactly what it feels like to me. It feels the same as if you went to the Grand Canyon with your with your spray paint, and you know put your company logo all over the face of it. And people will say oh, but it's supposed to be inspiring. And I would say you know look, I could you know write inspirational quotes all across the Grand Canyon, wouldn’t that be very inspiring? And I think the answer is no, that would not be very inspiring, and I feel the same way here. It's graffiti. It’s “space spam”, I think is another good descriptor of it. You can imagine that it could lead to — it will lead to, I think —somebody somewhere thinking wow you know that's a great advertising idea! What would it take for me to get a pair of golden arches up in the sky like that? And I suspect that these conversations have started.

HM: Now, you say it's not as bright as you originally feared. Do you have a sense of how visible it will be from Earth?

MB: I haven't yet heard from anyone who's actually seen it. So there's been a lot of speculation. People can look at the picture of it on the web, and sort of make a calculation of how bright it might be. And I think it's going to be sort of as bright as a typical satellite out there, which is funny because most people don't even really think about looking up and seeing typical satellites. But if you go up after sunset or before sunrise and stare up at the sky, you'll very quickly start to see these things moving across the sky if you if you need inspiration. And I think it will be about that brightness. And maybe every once in a while you'll catch an extra bright glint.

HM: Yeah, Rocket Lab described it you know sort of, as you say, multifaceted thing. Almost like it is going to be a disco ball in the sky. Do you think that they were just mistaken, or they were hyping it beyond what it should be?

MB: Well, it certainly looks like a disco ball when you see the pictures of it sitting on the ground. It's got that shape and that glittery-ness. And so the question is just going to be presumably it will be tumbling in the sky, and so maybe it'll blink on and off faster. But to me, seeing something like that that’s you know that's deliberately put up just to draw attention to itself. I just it's not nearly as inspirational as say seeing the space station. You know I think most people don't realize that you can see the space station going across the sky. It's really bright and exciting I feel like every time it goes across to think that there's something up there with a purpose that's doing important things, as opposed to just a glittery disco ball saying look at me, look at me.

HM: And yet, the company says this is a reminder to all on earth about our fragile place in the universe. That sounds pretty inspirational, no?

MB: Yeah, so it's a reminder to me about how fragile the night sky is, and how easy it is for people to start to try to ruin it. And I hope, I hope, that doesn't happen.

HM: Yeah, I mean you speculated that others are going to look at this and potentially see an opportunity here for something even more obstructive I guess, or would interfere with your view of space. What kind of concerns do you have? Could something like that actually affect astronomy?

MB: So this one particular one will not make a major impact on astronomy. It will show up in people's pictures that they're taking when they're doing observations of space for some scientific purpose. This thing will streak across it, and they'll have to start over again and throw that one out. But that won't happen very much. But the big worry is that it's you know the realization that this is not that difficult to do, and someone could put one up that really is much brighter. That really is sort of like the brightest thing in the sky. And that I think would just be sort of trashing our backyard.

HM: Is there a way to regulate for something like that?

MB: I actually don't know the answer to that one. There certainly are regulations about what you can and can't do in space, but I don't think that there's anything specifically about advertising purposes. But it's something that groups like the International Astronomical Union and the American Astronomical Society have been fighting for years. And I suspect that they will continue to try to keep too much of this going on for just the purely advertising purposes. You know there's no objection to putting satellites in space that are useful — that are doing things — and we are happy to see those go across our images and our data and have to take them over because we know there's good stuff happening. But to just do it for the sake of doing it I hope it doesn't continue to happen.

HM: Professor Brown, it's nice to talk with you. Thanks very much.

MB: Thank you.

HM: Bye bye.

JD: Mike Brown is a professor of planetary astronomy at the California Institute of Technology. We reached him in Pasadena.

[Music: Prog rock]

From Our Archives: Tommy Banks obit

JD: He started out as a musician; he really expanded his repertoire considerably. Tommy Banks, the renowned Edmonton jazz pianist, and former senator, died yesterday. He was 81-years-old. Mr. Banks' career covered almost every aspect of Canadian entertainment. As a pianist, he won a Juno, and toured the world. As a musician-slash-television personality, he hosted the "Tommy Banks Show" for 15 years, and won a Gemini award. And in 2000, he was appointed to the Senate, where helped advise the government during the North American Free Trade Agreement negotiations. Mr. Banks served in the Senate until his term ended in 2011. Around that time, Carol spoke with him about his career. Here's part of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

CAROL OFF: Mr. Banks, how did you commemorate or celebrate your last day as a Senator?

TOMMY BANKS: I voted “no” on the bill to which I was opposed. And then we went and had a nice dinner, my wife and I.

CO: What are you most proud of about your work as a Senator over these 11 years?

TB: The fact that quite often I acted independently of clearly set partisan lines, which I hope the Senate will return to doing. And that's what it should do.

CO: Tell me a bit about how it's changed then? How it’s become more partisan?

TB: Well, I think that probably happens near the beginning of every change of government. And I know that it's hard to imagine, but we are still near what in the long-term is the beginning of a relatively new government. When the government changes, things are likely to be a little more clearly partisan for a while in the Senate until senators realize that the job is not always to do the bidding of one's putative political masters.

CO: You sound still very, very passionate about all these political issues. What are you going to do with that energy and that passion?

TB: Well, I will return to what I did before I ever dreamt of being in the Senate, which is to be concerned and to pay attention and to argue among my friends, which we do often.

CO: And what about your music?

TB: I’m going to try to find some ways to play more music. I miss that very much, of course, as you can imagine when you doing anything for 50 years and suddenly almost stop, you miss it. But the music business has changed very much, of course, since I sort of left it. And I'm looking forward to getting my oar back in again.

JD: Tommy Banks, in conversation with Carol on As It Happens in 2011 Mr. Banks died yesterday. He was 81-years-old.

Back To Top »

Part three: Hunger strike priest, Warren Miller obit, decoded book

Hunger strike priest

Guest: Gary Graf

JD: Father Gary Graf hasn't eaten in over a week. The Chicago priest has committed himself to a hunger strike in support of undocumented immigrants, some of whom are parishioners at his church. Father Graf says he plans to continue his action until U.S. lawmakers reach a deal to replace Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals — also known as DACA. And until he feels assured that DACA recipients won't be separated from their families. We reached Father Gary Graf in Chicago.

HM: Father Graf, first of all, how are you feeling?

GARY GRAF: I'm feeling great.

HM: And has that been consistently true over the last ten days or so?

GG: It has; this is day 12. You know a little tired climbing stairs — a little winded — but other than that, I've been feeling really good.

HM: What do you think we don't know about DREAMers?

GG: I think there's a healthier awareness — a growing awareness — of how much they are citizens and all aspect of the word other than having been given that official title. For the majority of them, they are here and that's the only country they know. And they are fulfilling all the obligations and responsibilities of a citizen. And so they deserve to receive the rights and privileges of a citizen. And that's certainly not amnesty; that's justice. I keep going back to the fact that you know we talk about chain migration and that all kind of gets started by the need in this country of the United States for you know unskilled workforce. And I lived that in my own life. Having been here for five years as a priest, and seeing so many men show up in the parish, and the story that they told that they're here to work, and they were here separated from their wives and their children. And then when I was sent to Mexico and worked for five years in Mexico in the late ‘80s, I discovered that that was so true. During the dry season looking for work and the message was plentiful work in the United States. And then when I came back from Mexico, and was in Waukegan for many years, I discovered they started to tell me the story of how employers were telling, particularly men, if you have a brother, an uncle, a cousin that works like you, get them here, and I can guarantee him a job.

HM: Let me just clarify, this for you is not just about DAKA, it's about the broader immigration policies. About things like chain migration?

GG: It is. So when those men discovered that the work was full-time. And when these employers are saying you know I need you. A number of them told me when they said I'm going to go back and be untied with my family they said no, what’s it going to take? And they even offered to assist them financially to get their wives and children across the border. That's where the kind of circle completes. And we've encouraged them not only to come over as men, but to bring their wives and children over also. It's so disingenuous of us to say now you know send them back.

HM: The people that you know in your parish, in your community, generally who are affected by the uncertainty around DAKA and other immigration issues. Can you share a bit of the emotional effect this is having on them — this uncertainty?

GG: Well, I think the greatest is separation of family. The parents who came they would be willing if they had to go back after working here because they did it for their children. And that the DREAMers themselves, the emotional impact on them is to go back where? They have no clue where they are going back to. You know if they make a decision at one point to go back to their country their parents, and enriched Mexico, or Salvador with what they learned here and received here, glory to God, that’d be wonderful. But that it be their decision; not forced back, and forced back to a country that they have no knowledge of.

HM: We heard President Trump yesterday say that he is proposing a plan. He believes that he can address the challenges faced by the DREAMers, perhaps even provide a path to citizenship. But you know the details of that seemed to change from day to day. I'm wondering whether you feel that he will follow through on that promise?

GG: You know I think he will only because the general population, including parts of his own base, see that this is the right thing to do. I mean all those things have to be done, and it's been 17 years waiting for this. So there's got to be a comprehensive look at this. But he obviously is I think utilizing, in my opinion, the DREAMers, and he'll give us — the general population — that as long as he gets the other pieces that he wants in the reform.

HM: Tell me about the statement that you're making? Do you have any indications that this hunger strike is making a difference?

GG: Helen, I don't know. I know it's not a political statement. It's a moral one. It’s a humanitarian one. But I just feel the desperate need to tell my story of what I experienced. And my only hope is that people are going to have an honest conversation on their own that, hopefully, you know the immigrants, particularly the undocumented step, but starting with the DREAMers, step out of the shadow and just tell their story.

HM: What are you hearing from your parishioners, the diocese, your fellow priests?

GG: The fellow priests are supportive. They've decided to take a day a week and also fast. There's a group of priests here, “Priests for Justice for Immigrants”, that even said that you know if I get to a point where I cannot continue, that they would do kind of a chain fast and fill-in.

HM: How far are you willing to go? How long will you carry out this fast? What would make you stop?

GG: I'm not going to put my you know life at risk, so I'm certainly not a proponent of intentional suicide. I'm not going to let that happen, but I'm going do this long as I can.

HM: And I just want to clarify, you are you're taking some protein supplements and water? Is that what's going on?

GG: Water and Vitamin Water and Power Aid per day — one of each.

HM: Wow. Well, I really appreciate you taking time to speak with us. Thank you very much.

GG: My pleasure. Thank you.

HM: All right. You take care, bye bye.

GG: Ok, Helen. Peace.

JD: That was Father Gary Graf, a priest at St. Procopius Parish in Chicago. And we reached him in Chicago. You can read more about this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Guitar]

Indigenous child welfare

JD: They're wrapping up an emergency meeting on child welfare in Ottawa tonight. Politicians, Indigenous leaders, advocates, and former foster children gathered to address the issue of why Indigenous children are so grossly over-represented in the system. Indigenous Services Minister Jane Philpott has called the situation a "humanitarian crisis". And this morning, Minister Philpott had a few more strong words, when she appeared before the microphones with Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett.

SOUNDCLIP

JANE PHILPOTT: This has to stop. Children have to be with their families and communities, unless it is absolutely impossible to find another solution. And as Carolyn said, of course, the safety of those children is critical. But children can be safe with their aunt. They can be safe with their grandma. They can be safe in community — in a program of kinship care. So let's not use safety as an excuse to extract children from their culture.

CAROLYN BENNETT: I just want to add that I hope that because of this week, that every agency understands that they have to ask themselves the question is there something else that could be done other than apprehending this child? There are rules that have to be changed. And that's why the communities are furious that somebody who had problems with addiction is now really doing well. Why is that child being apprehended? Because it's two things: One is the apprehension. The other is returning the children to the families. And that's what this conversation is about is bringing our children home into healthy situations that are safe. But no more of this automatic stuff because there's not enough bedrooms, or not enough not enough cupboards, or there isn't a fire extinguisher. We've been saying this now for two years. And Premier McNeil has said you know there were 20 kids in his… 17. Like they didn't all have their own bedroom. So let's just be real about the racism and discrimination that is going on in these decisions that are being taken. And he just has to stop.

JD: That was Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett and Indigenous Services Minister Jane Philpott in Ottawa earlier today.

[Music: Ambient]

Warren Miller obit

Guest: Chris Anthony

JD: Before it was commonplace for people to throw the skies on the car and drive up to their local hill on weekends, or take a vacation to Whistler or Tremblant — there was Warren Miller and his camera. The legendary skiing filmmaker died this week. He was 93-years-old. Beginning in the 1940's, Mr. Miller became obsessed with capturing images of the magic of downhill skiing, even if that involved hauling bulky film cameras up mountains for just a few minutes of film. His art blossomed into a film company that he ran for 40 years. And because of that breathtaking footage, Mr. Miller is credited with helping the sport of skiing go mainstream. Chris Anthony is a professional skier who worked with Mr. Miller. We reached Mr. Anthony near Georgetown, Colorado.

HM: Chris Anthony, we have reached you out on the slopes today. Probably a very appropriate place to be talking about Warren Miller, what are you thinking about him right now?

CHRIS ANTHONY: It's been a tough couple of days, but also inspiring as well. I mean he had so much impact on absolutely every aspect of my life. In fact, I am at a ski area right now. I have 45 kids from the city that are experiencing skiing for the very first time through a foundation I created all because of my whole time period with Warren, and the path that he put me on as a kid myself.

HM: So many of us you know are surrounded by people who ski all the time — if we don't do so ourselves. But it wasn't always so. What did Warren Miller mean for the sport of downhill skiing?

CA: Oh, he meant absolutely everything. You know he brought the mainstream sport to the masses, but you know through visually. And you know he was the ultimate ski-bum. He tried to figure out a way to share the sport through a media outlet. And he did it very successfully. And millions and millions of people had seen it. I can't tell you how many people figured out that they needed to change their lives, and came up to me and said Warren Miller made me change my life.

HM: Is that your own experience? You mentioned that he influenced you as a kid?

CA: Yeah, my parents — so many parents — you know my parents started taking me to the films. I mean I started skiing when I was 18-months-old, but shortly after, they had me at the Warren Miller films every fall. And so it was a few years after that I actually got to meet Warren himself, and go up on stage as a little kid. And then years later, I actually got to be in an ad with him. And then it was finally years after that that I actually became one of the athletes in the film, and did that for 27 years and 28 films. And because of him, I got to see a great part of the world, and so many different places and in a way that I would have never seen it otherwise.

HM: What was he like as a filmmaker? What was his approach to prove putting his films together?

CA: He was the person that was just passionate about life and what he was doing. And he was a survivor. He was not a businessman necessarily; he was just a very passionate person. You know he grew up near the mountains. He was a very outdoorsy. And you know him and his friends you know they would just jump in the car and head up. And they just did they did it. They just went out and they got on the slopes and they taught themselves. And he was super athletic like an amazing athlete. So he fell in love with it, and he figured out how to stay with it. And he started off by selling shoelaces in the parking lot to people because back then, the boots were lace-up, and the laces were always break. So he found that if he bought parachute cord from the surplus stores and then he could wax those and then he could go to the parking lot and sell the shoelaces and be able to afford to buy the lift ticket that day. But his ultimate goal as he always said he was in search of the free lift ticket.

HM: He talked a lot about having a sense of humour around his movies and how important that was. He narrated them himself. How did you see that play out? What was he like to be with?

CA: Well, when I grew up watching the films, what I so clearly remember is going to the theaters, all the energy around the theater in the lobby, and then walking in, and then the lights sort of dimming and the spotlight going onto the stage and Warren was going out and doing this monologue that was always different. And he made everybody laugh. And it was just remarkable. But then he would walk over the stage, he would sit behind this little desk, and turn on this little light, and the lights would all go out and then the film would start, and he had a little tape recorder with music on it, and then he had his mic, and he would just fade the music up and down and narrate the whole movie live. And that's how he pulled it off for years, until eventually they got a little bit more high tech and put his voice and narration actually on the film.

HM: These days, you know YouTube is just jammed with you know hundreds of thousands of sports images. People strap on a GoPro and off they go. It's so different from what he was dealing with with bulky equipment. Is his style of filmmaking do you think still relevant?

CA: Absolutely. You know to be able to be a great filmmaker you ultimately have to be able to tell a story. And we just got off of film only about 15 years ago and moved to digital. And still, you look at the film footage and it's still almost a richer and crisper than what you have in the high definition, digital stuff. There's something real about that. And just a few years ago, I went on a shoot. And we since we didn't not have power the entire time, we shot the whole segment hand-wound cameras. So it's about the artist behind the camera. And because of Warren, there's been a lot of amazing cinematographers that have risen out and that came to be because of Warren Miller.

HM: Well, Mr. Anthony, I'm really sorry for your loss. And I very much appreciate you talking with us about your memories of Mr. Miller.

CA: Thank you.

JD: We reached Chris Anthony near Georgetown, Colorado. We have more on this story on our website.

[Music: Electronic]

Sherman update

JD: When billionaire couple Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead in their Toronto home last December, there were reports that the police were working on a theory of murder-suicide. The Sherman family rejected that idea swiftly saying, quote, "We are shocked and think it's irresponsible that police sources have reportedly advised the media of a theory which neither their family, their friends nor their colleagues believe to be true." Unquote. Well today, police confirmed the family was right all along. In a press conference, Homicide Detective Sergeant Susan Gomes confirmed that the deaths are now being treated as a double homicide. Here's part of what Detective Sergeant Gomes had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

SUSAN GOMES: We have so far spent thousands of hours on this investigation. Contacts with the immediate Sherman family has been consistent and ongoing. For them, it's been difficult to balance their patience with their frustration with us in our investigation, not unlike any other family who has suffered such a sudden and profound loss. They have been understanding, cooperative, and hopeful that this investigation can give them some answers. What we have come to learn so far in our investigation that I'm willing to confirm with you today is that Honey and Berry Sherman were last seen alive in the evening hours of Wednesday, December 13th. Neither of the two had communicated with friends, family, or associates from that timeframe, until their discovery on Friday, December 15th. There are no signs of forced entry on all access points to the home. Honey and Berry Sherman were found deceased in the lower level pool area. We believe now through the six weeks of work review we have sufficient evidence to describe this as a double homicide investigation. And that both honey and Barry Sherman were in fact targeted. We will continue to focus exclusively on evidence with whatever resources are necessary. We ask anyone to come forward with anything they may think is valuable to the investigation. And we along with the family are grateful for all those that have done so thus far.

JD: That was Toronto Homicide Detective Sargent Susan Gomes at a press conference earlier today, announcing that the Toronto police are now treating the deaths of billionaire couple Barry and Honey Sherman as a double homicide.

[Music: Instrumental]

Decoded book

Guest: Greg Kondrak

JD: "She made recommendations to the priest ..." Those six words were a bit of an Eureka moment for one computer scientist in Edmonton, who says he's uncovered a clue in deciphering a medieval text known as the Voynich Manuscript. The Voynich Manuscript dates back to the 15th century. And for years, researchers have been scratching their heads a bit trying to decode it because it's written in an unknown language, in an unknown script, and jumbled by an unknown code. But Professor Greg Kondrak says he made his new discovery with the help of artificial intelligence. Professor Kondrak teaches computer science at the University of Alberta. We reached him in Edmonton.

HM: Professor Kondrak, what is it about this Voynich Manuscript that made you want to decipher it?

GREG KONDRAK: Yes, so this is a fascinating puzzle. It was discovered about a hundred years ago, but it actually was produced in the 15th century. And it is written in an unknown script in unknown language. And all attempts to decipher have failed so far.

HM: Why is that? What is so difficult about it that has made it hard for people to figure out?

GK: Well, these two things: First, it is unknown language. And the second, it’s unknown script. So there's really nothing to grab on, except you know some clues that come from the illustrations in the manuscript.

HM: So the illustrations gave some people over time a bit of a lead. What are some of the hypotheses as to what the manuscript is actually about?

GK: So there have been different hypothesis, for example, this could be some kind of a cipher. It could be some kind of exotic language. It could There's some message hidden in the way the letters are written. Other people say that it's maybe a random text. And other people say that it could be a hoax, you know?

HM: What are the images that you referred to?

GK: Various images in the manuscripts, which can be easily found on the Internet. They are pictures of plants. They are astrological symbols. There are some pictures of women taking baths in greenish kind of water. So they are puzzling. And they also you know question what could the text be that surrounds the illustration?

HM: So explain for us how you used artificial intelligence to try to decode the language in the text?

GK: That's right. So I’m a professor the Computer Science Department, so I work with computer programs. And my area is natural language processing, which means making computers understand human language. So we thought that we could contribute to this solution of the puzzle by using our computational skills, which is basically writing programs that are able to decipher codes automatically.

HM: So what did you end up discovering?

GK: Right. So we had samples of about 400 languages. And we made the program compare those samples to the text of the manuscript. And the language that was by far the closest it was actually Hebrew.

HM: And how did you then go about confirming whether it is indeed written in Hebrew?

GK: Right. So we applied those programs to the Voynich Manuscript. So at the end, when we were confident that our tools are good and they achieve good accuracy on modern languages, we applied them to the text of the manuscript. And when looking at the output, we could calculate that over 80 per cent of the words are actually words that can be found in a Hebrew dictionary.

HM: What was the first full sentence that you decoded?

GK: Right. So applying the programs to the first sentence of the manuscript eventually produced a sentence in Hebrew that could be translated into English as “She made recommendations to the priest.”

HM: As you know — as you mentioned — others have claimed to have translated the manuscript before only to be later disproven. What makes you think yours is the accurate translation?

GK: Well, we have not actually produced a translation. We cannot claim that we have deciphered the manuscript. I think the main contribution is that we have provided solid evidence that the language that is the closest to the language of the manuscript is Hebrew.

HM: What do Voynich experts think about your work?

GK: I have not heard directly from the experts, but we received a very positive reception from the computer science community.

HM: Would you have thought given you've given them such a positive clue that you might have heard from some of the Voynich scholars? I’m wondering whether there's some reason that they aren't reaching out to you?

GK: You know I can only hypothesize about that. One possible explanation is that nowadays many people are kind of afraid that the artificial intelligence will replace them eventually, and will make them lose their jobs. So this kind of thing mentality can also be reflected among the Voynich scholars. They consider themselves experts. Obviously, they would not like to hear that the computer program can achieve more.

HM: Beyond that the technology and the deciphering process yourself, did working on the manuscript give you an appreciation of it as something else — as a mystery or as a work of art?

GK: I think it’s in human nature to try to solve puzzles, so it's kind of difficult to resist it once you take a look at these pages. The natural tendency is to try to decipher. However, I think a more important task is deciphering ancient scripts. And I would be absolutely delighted if the algorithm we developed could help other people to make progress in those kinds of discussions.

HM: Professor Kondrak, thank you very much for sharing your research with us.

GK: You’re welcome.

HM: Bye bye.

JD: Greg Kondrak is a computer scientist at the University of Alberta. We reached him in Edmonton.

[Music: Bluegrass]

Hulk lacrosse

JD: In the "Incredible Hulk" comics, Bruce Banner is exposed to gamma rays, and transforms into an angry monster guy who smashes stuff. Well, Kelvin Ooms also transforms himself into a monster guy. But he's much more chilled-out. Still, the Calgary Roughnecks say they'll be watching him like a Hulk. The Roughnecks are a team in the National Lacrosse League. Tomorrow, they'll be playing the Saskatchewan Rushm, which is where Mr. Ooms comes in. Although it's really how he comes in that's the issue. Kelvin Ooms is a huge fan of the Rush. Literally huge: he's known as the "Rush Hulk" because he goes to games in costume. He's organized four busloads of Rush fans to join him at the Saddledome tomorrow, where he'd go in costume. It's fun! Except it's serious: Roughnecks vice-president Mike Moore told the Calgary Herald that having "any official mascot or unofficial mascot of the visiting team in a home venue...causes potential security issues and safety issues." He's also worried that if Mr. Ooms bumps into anyone, Roughnecks fans could get, quote, "intense". So, at first, the Roughnecks said Kelvin Ooms wouldn't be allowed in dressed as the Hulk. But after an outcry, they said he can wear the costume so long as he doesn't act like a mascot. Mr. Ooms is relieved — if a little concerned about these restrictions being applied only to him. Now, this all seems pretty odd, considering sports fans dress up all the time. All the "Rush Hulk" wanted to do was watch a lacrosse game, but it's turned into a costume drama.

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January 26, 2018 episode guide

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