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The AIH Transcript for October 20, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

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CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

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JD: Tonight:

CO: All but one of them were there to worship. That one was a suicide bomber. And today, during Friday prayers at a busy mosque in Kabul, he detonated his explosives — killing dozens of people.

JD: Present company accepted. Several Canadian cities, and the Prime Minister himself, cordially invite Amazon to set up its new headquarters up here. Our guest says Canada should be careful what it wishes for.

CO: No laughing matter. Thirty-four years after founding Just for Laughs, Gilbert Rozon steps down as its president, after women come forward to accuse him of sexual harassment, and sexual assault.

JD: Putting his best Bigfoot forward. An Alberta taxidermist — one of the best in the world — explains his decision to recreate the elusive sasquatch, based on images recorded fifty years ago this week.

CO: Los quiero muchÃsimo muchachos! That's Spanish for "I love you guys", and I don't even speak Spanish! But, as scientists have just proven, a certain amount of booze can actually improve your language skills.

JD: Bottoms up! And...more like boarding hard pass. It's annoying when other passengers won't leave you alone on a nine-hour flight, but, as our guest tells us, it's downright disgusting when those passengers are bedbugs, and they won't stop biting you.

JD: "As It Happens", the Friday edition. Radio that guesses some airlines still serve inflight meals after all.

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Part 1: Kabul mosque bombing, Amazon critic, bed bugs on a plane family

Kabul mosque bombing

Guest: Fatima Faizi

JD: The mosque was busy for Friday prayers. And then, an explosion. At least 32 people are dead in Kabul after a suicide bomber walked into prayers this evening. That number is expected to rise. At another mosque, in another part of Afghanistan, another explosion. Officials there say at least ten are dead. These attacks come at the end of a very bloody week, that saw at least four other major attacks in the country. Fatima Faizi is a reporter for the New York Times. She lives in Kabul, near the mosque that was attacked this morning. And that is where we reached her.

CO: Fatima, what did you do when you first heard about this explosion today?

FATIMA FAIZI: Oh, in the first moment that I had there's an explosion, I thought it was a small explosion. It doesn't matter; maybe we don't report that. But when I checked the social media, I thought that it was big. And then I called my brother, he didn't pick up his phone, I just scared. I feel fear and I keep trying to call my family because we are living in that area. And I called my sister; she said that my father and my brother are at home and they are all right. I said oh god, thanks. My family is OK. Then I started trying to call some source.

CO: And I know you're a reporter for New York Times, and so you need to get the story. But the first thing you need to do is to find out about your own family.

FF: Yes. First of all, I called my family. I forgot that I am a reporter. The first thing that came in my mind was my brother and my father, you know?

CO: Of course, it's the right instinct. So you had it off though — now as a reporter — you had to go to the mosque to go to Imam Zaman Mosque. What did you see when you got there?

FF: After that, my friends called me hey, are you alive? I said yes. And then I left for that area. During my coming to the area, I just called to the sources. First of all, I found that only 10 people killed. I said oh yeah, it is not a big number in Afghanistan. You know, every day this happened. When I come in the area, I found that oh my god, there were too many people on the street. One was screaming, shouting and searching for family members. I saw an older woman and she was shouting, she was crying too much and she was screaming. I watched a man that stood on the street without shoes. And when I went further in front of the mosque, I discovered how big was that explosion. There were many people and I just felt too much. I was just talking with people and they were really angry on police and Ghani — and telling me that Ghani can do nothing for our people.

CO: So you arrived at the mosque. People were at prayer — this is Friday prayers at the mosque — today, were there ambulances? Were there people being taken to hospital?

FF: Yes, It was about one hour after explosion that I arrived in the mosque. When I arrived, I saw too many people in the front of the mosque, and also about five ambulances that still were coming and going to the mosque. They were just transferring the dead and wounded. And I myself saw about five dead.

CO: Even an hour later, bodies were still lying on the ground?

FF: Yeah, they were still lying on the ground.

CO: And were there family people there trying to find people?

FF: Yeah, they were there, but police blocked the mosque gate, and they were not allowing people to go in the mosque. There were many people in front of the mosque asking for family members.

CO: And this was a Shia mosque. These were Hazaras who were attacked. And so has anyone claimed responsibility?

FF: Yes, I saw a tweet that said ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack.

CO: ISIS, and so is this the first really large attack of ISIS then in Kabul?

FF: No, it is not. It is large, but not that large. Before, they did Money attacks in Kabul and too many people dead and wounded.

CO: But we remember what happened last May: 150 people killed in Kabul. And everyone had somebody that they knew who was lost there. And now, you're saying that it's so common that you don't even think about it when it’s just a few people who were killed. Just this week there were four other attacks outside of Kabul. What is it like these days now living in Afghanistan?

FF: You know, in the morning, when I leave my home, I think that I say goodbye to my mother and my father and I think to myself that maybe I will not be back alive at home. Maybe I'll die. Maybe someone will come and kill me. Maybe someone will shoot me. It is something common for everyone. Everyone thinks like this. Everyone thinks that if I leave home, it is possible that I won’t come home alive. Will someone bring my death to my family? And also, I feel like that.

CO: Fatima, that's terrible. And people were hoping years ago that things would get better. And now, it appears that the Taliban has claimed so much, ISIS is there. It seems like things are worse than they've ever been?

FF: Yeah, the Afghanistan government say that there are about 21 terrorist groups in Afghanistan.

CO: 21 Terrorist groups!

FF: Yes.

CO: Fatima, I'm glad that you're OK. And it's been a horrible day. I know it's very late at night and I know you've got reporting to do. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

FF: Your welcome. Thank you so much.

CO: Take care of yourself.

FF: Sure. Thanks.

JD: Fatima Faizi is a reporter for the New York Times. We reached her in Kabul.

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Amazon Critic

Guest: Gregory Scruggs

JD: A two-page letter from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau begins with a very personal touch. It reads: “Dear Jeff, there is no better place to do business than Canada.” and the Prime Minister then goes on to lay out a thorough sales pitch to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, in the latest move by a Canadian politician to woo you know online shopping tech giant. For weeks now, cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Halifax, Windsor and Toronto have been clamoring to get Amazons attention, making the case that their city should host the company's second headquarters. Last night was the deadline to submit formal proposals. Gregory Scruggs knows what it's like to live in an Amazon city. He lives and works in Seattle. He's a senior correspondent for the website Citiscope. We reached him in Seattle.

CO: Gregory, in this letter that Justin Trudeau wrote, he said to dear Jeff, he said as Amazon decides on the location for its second North American headquarters. I'm certain that Canada will stand out. What wording would you give to our Prime Minister if you could?

GREGORY SCRUGGS: I would tell the Prime Minister he should check with the residents of the cities that might host Amazon HQ2, and make sure that they agree with him and that they are also on board to potentially receive what one of our local newspaper columnists here in Seattle has described as a “prosperity bomb”. When so many highly paid jobs come all at once, it can be a boost for the economy and tax bases in these cities. But it can also bring a lot of challenges and overwhelm infrastructure if transportation and affordable housing are not already in place. As well as most damningly here, I think, increase house prices and rents on affordable levels for those not making those tech salaries.

CO: Well, I guess people in cities like Toronto and Vancouver they would tell you that I don't think housing prices can get worse than they are already. But other than that, that's not exactly an oooh, don't do it! When you think of getting all those high tech jobs and I know that Seattle got about 25,000 jobs in high tech. So what's wrong with that?

GS: Well, it depends on the city. I think that Toronto is actually a good candidate. I think the economy there is already diversified enough that it wouldn't become an “Amazon company town”. The amount of commercial real estate that Amazon occupies in our city is a higher percentage by an enormous factor — like a factor of 20 — over any other U.S. city. And that can change the look and feel and culture of a city of our size, which may not be true for a place like Toronto, but could be true for a place like Calgary, which I just spotted a bill a billboard in Seattle yesterday advertising Calgary's bid.

CO: What's the billboards say?

GS: On the left hand side is a fierce-looking guy with kind of a wild, you might say Grizzly-type beard. And it says Hey Amazon, not saying we'd fight a bear for you… but we totally would. And that totally is italicized, and there's a #AmazonYYC, and then Calgary, “Be Part of the Energy”.

CO: Ok, so Calgary’s trying to get in there and sell itself. And I think that Toronto, as you mentioned, other Canadian cities: Windsor, Hamilton, Brampton, Winnipeg, Halifax, Ottawa, Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto and Calgary. All of them actually are vying for this place. Now, of course, we’re about “HQ2”, or Headquarters Two for Amazon, What is it like to be HQ1?

GS: It is sometimes a bit of a through-the-looking-glass kind of experience, especially in that part of town technically known as South Lake Union, but mostly referred to as Amazonia. And when I say an us-versus-them mentality, I mean that in a very subtle way. I mean this is Seattle, were famously passive-aggressive. I don't think Amazonians are getting beat up on the street or fearing for their lives. But this sense that that the people who work there are just kind of a different breed of citizen. They very often recently moved to town from somewhere else. It doesn't seem like they integrate well with a lot of the existing culture in Seattle, and that a lot of the new businesses that have sprung up are catering more to that clientele. What has been derisively referred to as the “brogrammer” — The young, highly-paid, usually male, usually white, tech worker with a lot of disposable income.

CO: But, at the same time, you can see why it would be attractive, despite what you're describing and the taint of culture, to have a huge influx of young, big-spending, well-paid people, who have lots of disposable income and would add to your tax base. Kind of appealing, isn't it?

GS: Yes, I can see why it's appealing for a mayor. But I urge and caution those leaders to also listen to their citizens, especially the ones who are in more working class jobs and renters. And checking with them and make sure that they are comfortable with the possible impact of an Amazon. We're back pedaling in Seattle to pass rent control legislation, to adopt aggressive mandatory affordable housing rules in the new construction that's going up. We have more cranes on the skyline than any other city in the U.S. we've passed a $54 billion voter-approved measure to build out our light rail system.

CO: Canadian cities would argue that many of the things you say that made Seattle so unlivable for people like yourself when the Amazonians arrived would not be the same in cities in Canada where there is already public transportation in many of them they. There is already rent controls to some extent. So when you plug in an Amazon, does it have the same effect in the city that has those things than it has in the city that didn't?

GS: There's really only four viable candidates. In my opinion, the viable Canadian candidates are: Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto and Calgary. Ottawa does meet the population threshold, but I think it's a government town, not a tech town. And I don't think it would be very appealing. Vancouver I think is just too close, and part of the consideration is sort of an alternative to the Pacific Northwest. Montreal is very affordable. I suspect that French language Quebec laws around businesses might scare off Amazon's bore. They just wouldn't really be familiar or comfortable with operating in a bilingual environment. And, personally, I hope they don't go to Montreal because North American League needs at least one affordable, creative city. I don't want to see that spoiled as well. Calgary I think is a very interesting dark horse candidate. And I hadn't given it any thought until I saw that billboard yesterday, while walking around town. The New York Times ran the numbers on the US candidates and settled on Denver as the one that best fit the bill. And insofar as Calgary is also a front-range-of-the-Rockies kind of city trying to reinvent itself perhaps in the wake of declining oil prices.

CO: Which city in Canada do you think has the best shot?

GS: Toronto, no questions asked. I was saving the best for last. I think the Toronto absolutely is a major metropolis. You have international air connections all over the planet. You have a sophisticated financial sector. You have a thorough subway system. There are a lot of fundamentals that I think would make Toronto an appealing choice for Amazon. Toronto is a corporate city, so if they are looking for a more corporate-type town, I think Toronto could be a good fit.

CO: OK, I’m not sure which is a better sell? You’re selling Amazon and you’re selling Toronto. Both seem like they're made for each other. Anyway, Gregory, it’s good to talk to you. Thanks.

GS: My pleasure, Carol.

CO: Bye bye.

JD: Gregory Scruggs is senior correspondent for Citiscope in Seattle. That is where we reached him. And we have posted this story on our website. That being: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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Bed bug family

Guest: Eric Neilson

JD: It is slightly less gross than snakes on a plane. Actually, know what? It might be more gross. It depends on what makes you squirm. In any case, Eric Nielson and his family were on a nine-hour flight from Vancouver to London, UK when they saw — to paraphrase the edited-for-TV version of that Samuel L. Jackson Classic — some monkey-fighting bugs on that Monday-to-Friday plane. Excuse my language. We reached Eric Nielson in Vancouver.

CO: Eric, at what point did you realize that there were bedbugs on your plane?

ERIC NEILSON: Well, about an hour into the flight, we saw one on the back of the seat in front of us. And it crawled back behind the television screen that was embedded in the seat. And we notified the flight attendant right away, we were discreet about it…

CO: But there was just one just one at that point?

EN: Yeah, we just saw the one. We didn't want to call the panic on the plane because it was a packed airplane on a nine-hour flight. So we let the flight attendant know. She offered to move us and split us all up, but we didn't want to have Molly sitting alone because she’s seven-years-old.

CO: Molly is your fiance's daughter?

EN: Yes.

CO: So after the first one, you decided OK, you're going to stay where you are. Then what happened?

EN: Shortly after that, we saw another one. It was different — it was bigger and darker — that had fallen out of the screen, onto the pillow that was on Heather's lap. So we captured that one in a napkin and called the flight attendant again. The flight attendant didn’t really seem surprised by it, and took the napkin with the bed bug in it and just left.

CO: And then you decided that you're still going to stay where you are. And things kind of went from bad to worse, didn't they?

EN: Well yeah, we saw a couple more small ones before the lights went out because it was an overnight flight. And we tried to get a little bit of sleep, and we made some of our connecting flights. And we noticed on those that Heather and Molly actually had gotten quite a few bites each on that flight.

CO: And you say when the lights went out. We know that nothing makes a bedbug happier than the lights going out. So that's when they started to, I guess, have their feed?

EN: Yeah, we didn't notice them because they don't really make much of a fuss when they're biting you. They try to be as discreet is possible to get their meal. And Molly ended up with 28 bites I believe it was —mostly on her calves and her hips and thighs.

CO: Now did you bring this up with British Airways?

EN: Well, we tried to, but the problem was their customer service line that we found was only open four hours every day. And we couldn't get through during that four hours. They wouldn't even put us on hold. We would get a message of high call volume and have the call dropped. And we kept trying and trying. And, eventually, while they were about to drop our call, we hit zero a bunch on the phone and we got through to an operator who couldn't do anything for us. It was just an oh, I’m sorry to hear that. It won't happen again. It was really all it was. And so we asked to speak to their supervisor, and we just got more of the same thing. What we really were hoping for is a flight back on a different airline — for them to provide us with that because we were worried about running into the same airplane or similar problems.

CO: Did you ever get an impression that they felt that this was horrifying and that this should never have happened to somebody on a flight?

EN: Yes, after seeing that call center initially, we spoke to a customer service representative. There's on the day before our flight back. And that was sort of more of the same. The most sincere and heartfelt people we met from British Airways we met at the airplane, when we were about to get on at Heathrow going back to Vancouver. There was some very nice customer service people who bumped us up to Club World, which was nice of them. But it wasn’t what we were asking for.

CO: Wow! And so now they've issued a statement. British Airways says they operate more than 280,000 flights every year. Reports of bedbugs on board are extremely rare. Nevertheless, we are vigilant and continually monitor our aircraft. The presence of bedbugs is an issue faced occasionally by hotels and airlines all around the world. What do you make of that statement?

EN: I think that it's a bit more common than they're letting on. If you look online, you can find other stories of British Airways flights that have bedbugs on them where people have been treated similarly by them.

CO: And what did you do with your stuff? Your luggage and your carry on? I guess, first of all, you got into your holiday and then coming home. Were you concerned that you might be transporting the little creatures?

EN: Of course, we tried to put it through dryers, but in Europe they're less common, especially when you're staying at Airbnb’s and in hotels and places like that. So we had to tell everyone that we were vacationing with. It was a family trip for my grandmother's funeral and the spreading of her ashes. So all my family I had to tell them to put everything through the dryer as soon as they got home, and just sort of quarantine everything. So as soon as we got back from our trip, we had to put everything in bags and put it through the dryer once we got around to it.

CO: And how were the bites healing?

EN: The bites are healing fairly well for the most part. Heather got one on her hand that's a little bit infected because she has to wear plastic gloves on her hand for work.

CO: And what about Molly?

EN: Molly's bights are healing well.

CO: Any plans to fly British Airways in the future?

EN: No, we're concerned about flying at all in the future after knowing this.

CO: All right, a cautionary tale for anyone listening. Eric, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

EN: Thank you very much.

JD: We reached Eric Nielson in Vancouver.

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Dateline: Milwaukee Marathon

JD: Dateline: Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

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JD: Long-distance relationships are tough. You do everything you can to make them work. Sometimes it's just not enough. In this case, I'm not talking about a relationship between two people separated by a long distance. I'm talking about a relationship between people and a long distance. An extremely specific long distance: 42.195 kilometers, or 26.219 miles. The exact length, established by the International Olympic Committee back in 1908, of a marathon. This past Sunday, the PNC Milwaukee Marathon took place. It was a fresh start for the race in more ways than one. First, it is newly rebranded and second, organizers hoped to reset its reputation, after an embarrassing incident last year when the race was measured too long. Between that mismeasurement, and some mischief involving traffic cones, participants ran an extra half-mile — in some cases, more than two extra miles. Well, Sunday's race did have a fresh start. The ending, however, was another matter. Because, yes, the organizers did hire two separate companies to ensure the race was precisely 26.219 miles. They checked and double checked the placement of the traffic cones. And still, all their efforts — and the race itself — came up short. It was only 25.4 miles long. So the course — like, apparently, the people who plotted it out — was almost a full mile short of a marathon. Unfortunately, that means the people who finished the marathon didn't finish a marathon. And it demonstrates that, sometimes, even promises and claims of devotion cannot save a long-distance relationship.

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Part 2: Madagascar plague, beer & foreign languages

Madagascar plague

Guest: Mamoudou Harouna Djingarey.

Right now, on the island nation of Madagascar, there is a deadly outbreak of plague. Officials say at least 94 people have died, and there have been more than a thousand suspected cases since August. While plague is endemic in Madagascar, this year's outbreak is much worse. Dr. Mamoudou Harouna Djingarey is the coordinator of the World Health Organization's response in Madagascar. We reached him in the capital city of Antananarivo, via Skype.

CO: Dr. Djingarey, why is this outbreak so much worse than others in the past, when you have outbreaks of the plague?

MAMOUDOU HAROUNA DJINGAREY: Madagascar has been endemic of the plague. And this year, they're having a pneumonic plague.

CO: Sorry Dr, it's just breaking up a bit. But you're saying the difference is that normally, you have bubonic plague. This year, you have pneumonic plague. What's the difference?

MHD: The difference is pneumonic plague is transmitted through droplets when the sick person coughs. The pneumonic one when it is transmitted from person-to-person. Whereas the original one, which is the bubonic one, the is transmitted by the bite of fleas that fed on small rodents. So this bubonic plague is less contagious than the pneumonic one.

CO: And it's also I understand this is much earlier than you've had outbreaks before. That this is something that also worries you?

MHD: Yes. It's much earlier because the period of transmission in Madagascar is from September to April. And this year, the first cases occurred in August. And it is the new pneumonic one, which is transmitted from person-to-person, and someone from the rural area where plague usually occurs came into the big city to seek for care. And this is how he contaminated some persons during public transportation by coughing and transmitting the droplets to do those who are traveling with him.

CO: And so what can you do to try and contain this? Now, you have almost 100 people have died. There are more than a thousand cases that you suspect. But you people are out there connecting with others. What can you do to try and stop the spread?

MHD: WHO, the organization I represent, is working with the government of Madagascar to find the gaps to support a country, to treat the patients, to provide the healthcare workers medicines and the infection prevention and control materials so that we can treat all the patients coming into health facilities. So that health workers also will not be contaminated. And we are also working with the other partners in the country and supporting them to fight this disease. We are also, you know, the disease is transmitted by respritory droplets. It means that some people who may come in close contact with the disease may get infected through the respiratory droplets. And we are tracing those contacts and giving them oral antibiotics, so that they will not develop the disease. And we will follow them up to seven days and give them medicine so that they will not develop the disease.

CO: And what do you get? What's the prophylactic? Is it antibiotics?

MHD: It’s antibiotics.

CO: And do you have enough? Because you're trying to use it as a preventative method as well — do you have enough supply for what now looks like a pretty big spread of this disease?

MHD: So far, we have enough antibiotics for three to five thousand cases, and 100,000 contacts. If the situation changes, we may need more.

CO: We all remember the Ebola virus outbreak, and agencies were slow to respond to that. They didn't contain it quickly enough, and then did a remarkable job at trying to combat it. What lessons has the WHO learned from the Ebola outbreak that you can apply to this outbreak of the plague in Madagascar?

MHD: The lessons from Ebola, WHO has reorganized itself to be quicker in mobilizing human resources on the field, in mobilizing materials on the field, and in mobilizing financial resources in the field so that we can support the countries and the communities as quickly as possible. And now the new WHO emergency system — I can tell you because I was in Guinea and in Mali during Ebola — and from my experience, I can tell you that the WHO is now more quicker than before in terms of responding to epidemics and other catastrophes.

CO: Yet, we're already hearing from the Red Cross that they are concerned about a growing stigma around the disease. That people are already reluctant to report it, going underground, not wanting the authorities to know about it, or others in the community to know. Are you worried that people may not seek treatment? That you may not be able to get into the communities and do the awareness program that is so necessary here?

MHD: So that's why we are working on communication, social mobilization, crisis communication and community engagement. With religious leaders and traditional leaders so that all the population understand what the disease is, how severe it is and what they can do to protect themselves. And in case they get the disease that this disease, particularly plague, is treatable and the patient will recover completely and very quickly. The hospitalization period is just seven days.

CO: All right, Dr. Djingarey, I know you have a lot to do. I appreciate you speaking with us tonight. Thank you.

MHD: Thank you very much.

JD: Dr. Mamoudou Harouna Djingarey is with the World Health Organization. We reached him in Antananarivo, Madagascar. We have more on this story on our Website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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Bernice Catcheway

JD: Nine years of pain came pouring out when Bernice Catcheway sat down at the microphone today. She was testifying in Winnipeg at the inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. Her daughter, Jennifer, disappeared in 2008, on her 18th birthday. In the days that followed Jennifer's disappearance, the Catcheways went to the RCMP to report her missing. The family says they were initially brushed aside. And today, Ms. Catcheway told the inquiry she felt abandoned by police. She also spoke of the immense toll her daughter's case had taken from their family, over the past nine years. Here's part of her testimony.

SOUNDCLIP

BERNICE CATCHEWAY: It cost us my children. It cost my husband and I family times, birthdays, family events Christmas time. The birthdays, we aren’t there because we're in the bush. They said to me Mum, you died. You died nine years ago. When Jen died, you died. You never have time for us. I said because we're looking. We’re searching. And I don't blame them. This last search, this last summer, every June 19^th, we have a fundraiser to keep our search going. My children pulled out. They said Mum, it’s too hard. It's too hard for us. We're not doing this anymore. I said don't ever ask me to quit. Nine years later, we're getting older. My husband and two heart attacks. He is not the same man before Jen went away —before she was stolen. Night and day is on Jen's case. Three months, I'd wake up for work, he's sleeping. He'll get up and start again. Three months steady, doing the RCMP’s job. I say that because I don't know what they're doing — if they did anything at all? After three months, he was exhausted and tired. I believe, and that's my belief, somebody out there knows where Jennifer is lying. Somebody last laid their eyes on her. And I believe until you show me — until the RCMP show me otherwise — I believe they didn't do nothing. And that they failed Jennifer Catcheway.

JD: Bernice Catcheway’s daughter, Jennifer, has been missing since 2008, her 18th birthday. Ms. Catcheway was testifying today before the inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls in Winnipeg.

[Music: Somber]

From Our Archives: Michael Pitfield obit

JD: He was in university at the age of 13; graduated at 16. He went to law school as a teenager. And when he finished there, he dedicated the next 50-plus years of his life to his country, eventually, becoming a long-time confidant to former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau. Michael Pitfield — a former senator, and clerk of the Privy Council — died this week. He was 80-years-old. He was Secretary to the Cabinet, Clerk to the Privy Council and a Senator for Ottawa-Vanier. He sat in the Senate as an independent until his retirement in 2010. And in a statement today, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called Mr. Pitfield a, quote, “family friend who was especially dear to his father.” He pointed out that Mr. Pitfield remains the youngest ever Canadian to lead the public service. And he lauded him for playing a pivotal role in the Patriation of the Constitution, and the establishment of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Mr. Pitfield appeared on As It Happens in November of 1983, in an interview about a bill to create a civilian security agency separate from the RCMP. He felt the bill should be passed, but rewritten first. Here's part of his conversation with former host Elizabeth Gray.

SOUNDCLIP

ELIZABETH GRAY Senator Pitfield, given your extensive role in the drafting of this legislation originally, I wonder how enlightening was it for you to sit through this process of revision? Or is that the right word? Was it painful?

MICHAEL PITFIELD: First of all, I didn't have an extensive role in drafting this legislation. But I guess it could be said I had an extensive role in the field, and in the events that led up to the legislation. Secondly, it has been a tremendous experience both in terms of eye opening, being on the other side of the fence looking at it, dealing with the public and, more particularly, the various interest groups who are concerned with it. It's, as you can see from the report, influenced my views quite considerably.

EG: All right. Let's start with one of the improvements, or hopefully it's an improvement. Does it do a better job of restoring what I think you've called the equilibrium between the protection of civil liberties on the one hand, and the needs of a security intelligence agency on the other?

MP: It provides a more a fine balance than existed in the in the bill. And I think that balance will much better take account of the problems in trying to trade-off between individual rights and collective security.

EG: What's the key there? In what way is it better?

MP: Well, it's a balance between mandate and controls on the one hand, and powers and review on the other. And without getting into it very deeply, the changes that the committee has recommended in each and every one of those areas will permit what I've called a more delicate balance than was achieved in the first bill.

EG: Has it gone some way towards working with I guess you might call the inevitable clash between a democratic system and the needs of the security system. You know, democracy is for parliaments, but it's not necessarily for a security and intelligence service.

MP: Well, it gives a more defined mandate somewhat restricted. It gives powers that are somewhat restricted. It is much greater control by a parliament and by ministers. And it very greatly strengthens the review process.

JD: That was former Canadian Senator Michael Pitfield speaking to former As It Happens host Elizabeth Gray back in 1983. Michael Pitfield died earlier this week. He was 80-years-old.

[Music: Horns]

Beer & foreign languages

Guest: Inge Kersbergen

JD: You know that feeling after a couple of pints, when you feel like you can do anything? Well, for legal reasons, I have to preface the story by telling you that feeling is an illusion. However, researchers at the University of Liverpool, Maastricht University and King's College London have proven that after a couple of pints, you can do anything. Perhaps I'm overstating the case a little bit. What they did prove is that drinking alcohol does improve bilingual speakers’ ability to speak their second language. Inge Kersbergen is a researcher at the University of Liverpool who was part of the study. We reached her in Liverpool.

CO: Ms. Kersbergen, a lot of us assume we're better at things when we've had a few drinks. What made you think that it could actually be true?

INGE KERSBERGEN: There's two suggestions really in the literature. The first is that we just think that we’re better at things when we have a bit of alcohol, more specifically if we speak a foreign language. But there is one explanation that suggests that we might actually be better at speaking a foreign language when we’ve had a bit of alcohol. And that's because we feel less nervous. We know nerves make us worse at speaking a foreign language, and alcohol reduces your nervousness around people. So that could explain why we speak better in a foreign language if we’ve had a bit of alcohol.

CO: Well, that's certainly the impression people have. If you spend an evening in a pub full of people who speak no common language, you often feel you all understand each other perfectly by the end. But you've actually set out to test this. Can you tell us what you did?

IK: So we tested this at the university in the Netherlands, which is very near the German border, which means we have a lot of German students coming in who have to learn Dutch and speak Dutch as part of this city. And we subjected these German students to an experiment. So we either gave them a bit of alcohol or a glass of water — and asked that they had to hold the conversation in Dutch with an experimenter. And these conversations were marked by Dutch nationals on how well the Dutch was pronounced, and how the grammar was, how good the sentence structure was. And, overall, what we found is that Dutch-speakers said that these German students were better at their Dutch when they had bit of alcohol, compared to when they had just water.

CO: How much alcohol are we talking here?

IK: we're talking a small amount. So we based the amount of alcohol we gave to students on their body weight, so that allowed us to make sure that everyone has the same sort of blood-alcohol concentrate. But for a male student of 70 kilograms, it would have been 460 millilitres. So it’s less than a pint really.

CO: And so the theory is that one of the things that prevents people from speaking a second Language is that they're inhibited. Taking away the inhabitions makes them more fluent?

IK: Yes, exactly. When you're nervous about speaking a foreign language, you take a longer time, take longer breaks, the way it comes out of is not as fluent than if you’re more confident about it. So this is why we think this effect works. We didn't test the explanation. We just saw whether or not it happened.

CO: But people who are under the influence of alcohol feel that they're better at many things. And you know the more horrible thing is they think they can drive well. And so is there anything else that actually does benefit by having a bit of alcohol and losing these inhibitions?

IK: I can't think of anything else to be honest. I mean people feel that their social skills improve when they have had alcohol. But on the top of my head, I can't think of any research that has shown that people are better at their social skills. So it's possible that this would be with anything that reduces your nerves, rather than something specific to alcohol.

CO: I would imagine that it wouldn't help you in an exam if you felt less nervous when you sat down.

IK: I definitely wouldn't recommend that, no.

CO: Do you plan to test it in any other situation? Not driving, but any other one?

IK: We’ve not get anything in the pipeline at the moment. But it's an interesting idea and it would be interesting to see if this happens in other areas as well.

CO: Now, you say they drank only a small amount of alcohol. And, of course, as we know that people do feel, as we said, that you know the end of an evening in a pub with complete strangers with whom no one speaks the common language everyone feels that they were perfectly understood. Does it get better or worse as they drink more?

IK: So we didn’t test this, but I’d expect it to be worse when you drink more. If you know that when you drink to the extent that you slur words in your own language, then you wouldn't expect to speak fluently in a foreign language. I imagine when it gets further into the night, people might feel they understand each other more because of the atmosphere and you know the niceness around you with other people, rather than maybe, actually, that you're all better at speaking your foreign languages.

CO: But there is probably a lot of diminishing returns on this one?

IK: I imagine so. And it's probably very, very early on as well.

CO: All right, it's fun to talk about this. Ms. Kersbergen, thank you.

IK: You're welcome.

CO: Bye Bye.

IK: Bye.

JD: Inge Kersbergen is a researcher at the University of Liverpool. And that's where we reached her. [Speaking: Spanish] [Translation: for more on this story, visit our website: www.cbc.ca /aih.]

[Music: Ambient]

Listener Response: Bigfoot

JD: Bob Gimlin has absolutely no question whatsoever about what he saw. October 20^th, 1967, exactly 50 years ago today, Mr. Gimlin, and his friend Roger Patterson, captured the most compelling evidence of Bigfoot ever. The footage known as “the Patterson-Gimlin film” depicts a massive, hairy creature lumbering through the California wilderness. And earlier this week, to mark the anniversary, we spoke with Mr. Gimlin himself. His convincing testimony, however, did not sway most of you nonbelievers. On Twitter, Sportsology scoffed: “The legacy is a guy dressed up in a costume.” Daisy pigeon asked: “If it's a forest creature, why does it look like it's wearing shoes?” And Mary Buckingham added: “Still looks like a human in a gorilla suit. But it wasn't all Sasquatch skeptics, PhellaDaFam admitted: “This article has me shook. No more hiking for me!” And Jowahayo gave props to the forest creature, adding: “Fifty years ago today, Bigfoot came out. Proud of you baby, love you.” Well thank you all for your comments. And if you are still on the fence about Bigfoot, do stay tuned. In a few minutes, we will speak with a Bigfoot taxidermist.

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Part 3: Rozon assault allegations: journalist, Bigfoot taxidermist

Rozon assault allegations: journalist

Guest: Florent Daudens

JD: The criminal investigation into Gilbert Rozon’s behavior continues tonight. Mr. Rozon is the founder of the Just For Laughs comedy conglomerate. His power in the industry was enormous. And in Le Devoir yesterday, several women told stories of how Mr. Rozon allegedly exploited and abused that power. They accuse him of abuses ranging from sexual harassment to assaults, including at least one involving a minor. Florent Daudens was part of the Le Devoir team that worked on the story. We reached him in Montreal.

CO: Florent, it seems there have been rumors about Gilbert Rozon for years. At what point did you think that you might actually have a story?

FLORENT DAUDENS: Well, it was very recently at the beginning of the week, in the midst of the Weinstein scandal in the United States. Several women began to speak out on the social media. And we found two different women who said several things on the social media under the “#metoo”. So we began to contact them, and they were also able to meet other woman online and they discovered that they have a common story with Gilbert Rozon. We also made contact with other women on a separate path.

CO: But it begins with this “#metoo”, which was something that came out after the Harvey Weinstein story broke. Women were talking about these big people in show business — men — who were taking advantage of women, or they say that the allegations were that. These women said that it was Gilbert Rozon. And how quickly did you start to find other women who were going to come forward? You ended up with nine Initially; I think you have 11 now?

FD: Yeah, in the story that we published two days ago, we had nine women. Seven of them were on the record; two of them are off. It took three-four days I would say. So it was pretty fast, but we had to corroborate a lot of information to be sure that we would be able to publish the story in fact. Because it's a very important investigation, and we wanted to be sure that everything was Okay.

CO: A very important story. A very big issue, but also a very big man — Gilbert Rozon. For people outside Quebec, do you want to tell us just how big he is?

FD: Absolutely. He was founder and still the owner of Just for Laughs. So it's a big company with a lot of humorists under contract. He was also involved in France. There is a show that was supposed to be on air next week, and it was canceled after this story. He wanted also to open a theatre in Paris I think. Just for Laughs has several commercial agreements in different countries, Australia, South Africa and the UK. He was vice-chairman of the Montreal Chamber of Commerce. So he was an important entrepreneur, but also a public figure.

CO: And being in the same business with you, I know what that means to get this past the lawyers to get everyone to sign off on it. What was the thing that about these stories, and as you pointed out, seven of the women are willing to be public about it to give their names and to give the details. What is it about the story that gave you the confidence to know that yes, not only is it important, it is in the public interest. But we are going to take this chance and actually expose and make these allegations against someone as powerful as Mr. Rozon?

FD: Well, I would say one of the main arguments is the number of women involved and ready to speak on the record. Our ability to corroborate information was also really important. There was also one of the woman went to the police to complain about Gilbert Rozon. So there are allegations, there are no accusations at the moment. But the Montreal Police say that they will meet with four women involved in our article since we published it. We asked Gilbert Rozon about his comments — if he wanted to answer to the allegations, but he declined. And one thing that I must say is that he resigned from his different responsibilities several hours before we broke the story.

CO: We will repeat, as you know, that none of these allegations have been proven. But can you tell us the range of the allegations the women who came forward to you. Tell us some of the stories that they told you?

FD: Several of them are pretty recent, in 2016; several others where in the 80s. It happened, according to them, from unwelcome gestures to allegations of rape.

CO: One of the women was a teenager; she was 14 at the time.

FD: According to her, yes, she was 14 at that time when she was with Gilbert Rozon. And she told us that he performed unwelcome gestures on her.

CO: Just after your story about Mr. Rozon broke, we saw another very big and powerful person in the industry in Quebec, Eric Salvail, who admitted to having committed sexual misconduct in his workplace and his production company. This is after 11 men and women came forward to also say that they had stories to tell about him. What does this tell you about the industry in Quebec?

FD: I don't know what it can say about the show business world in Quebec? But I think it's really important to say that maybe it opens a sense of we can speak about what happened to us. And the hashtag says it all: it's “#metoo”. But you know, it's very interesting we had this interview with the head of the lawyers in Quebec this morning, and he recognized that the justice system is basically broken for the sexual assault and that the justice system needs to be re-wired.

CO: All right, I think we're hearing similar arguments across the country. And we will be following your coverage, Florent. And I appreciate speaking with you today. Thank you.

FD: It was a pleasure. Thank you.

JD: Florent Daudens is the News Director at Le Devoir. We reached him in Montreal.

[Music: Xylophone]

Richard Wilbur obit

JD: “I have an amateur’s grasp of French,” the American poet Richard Wilbur told the CBC back in 1984. “I have a certain tact about the literature of that time and that place.” Well, that time was the 17th century, and that place was France. And considering that Mr. Wilbur was an award-winning translator of the three powerhouse French playwrights of that time — molière, Jean Racine and Pierre Corneille — his estimation of his mastery of the language was an understatement to say the least. Richard Wilbur died on Saturday. He was 96-years-old. Mr. Wilbur was also an extremely distinguished poet in his own right. He served as U.S. Poet Laureate for two years beginning in 1987, the following year he won his second Pulitzer Prize for his anthology entitled “New and Collected Poems”. His first Pulitzer came in 1957 for his collection entitled “Things of This World”. And in that same CBC interview back in 1984, Mr. Wilbur articulated the paradoxical nature of writing as he saw it. Here here's what he told Kati Vita on the program “Anthology”.

SOUNDCLIP

RICHARD WILBUR: I'm a social animal, and I've known a great many people in and out of the arts of whom I've been fond, and with whom I've enjoyed sitting up and drinking and talking all night. And I suppose the thing is always to keep some of yourself in reserve. Always to be ready to go into the tin can as the Japanese say. To be capable of solitude, it would be fatal to lose that capacity to be alone. Being alone is such a large part of being a writer, especially if you write as slowly as I do. Sometimes translating or reading my own things, I'll spend a whole day doing two or three sentences, or a line or two and sometimes have to cross it out at the end of the day. I find all that very painful. It's wonderful when it works. It's seems a ghastly way to make a living, however, when it's not working. And I suppose that's one reason why there aren't more writers. Most people don't want to be alone that much of their lives, and frustrated that much of the time.

JD: That was American poet and translator Richard Wilbur speaking with Kati Vita on CBC Radio's “Anthology” back in 1984. Richard Wilbur died Saturday. He was 96-years-old.

[Music: Ambient]

Trump’s “real” Renoir

JD: There are two kinds of impressionists: The 19^th-century ones who rejected the status quo to paint mundane-seeming settings in an unrealistic style; and the ones who do imitations. Usually, it is impossible to mix the two up. As we have seen, however, the impossible means nothing to Donald Trump. Today, the BBC published part of an email from the Chicago Institute of Art, about a painting called “Two Sisters (On The Terrace)”. The institute said it had had the painting, a genuine Renoir, since 1933. “We are proud and grateful to be able to share this exceptional work of art with our 1.5 million visitors each year.” The e-mail said. This will be news to the U.S. President — Fake news probably — but news because according to biographer Tim O'Brien, author of “Trump Nation: The Art of Being The Donald”, Mr. Trump firmly — like, immovably firmly — believes that he has been sharing that exceptional work of art with people since he bought it. Recently, Mr. O'Brien appeared on the Vanity Fair magazine podcast “Inside the Hive”, hosted by Nick Bilton. Mr. Bilton asked Mr. O'Brien for a story he felt really exemplified the Trump personality. And after a moment, Mr. O'Brien told Mr. Bilton that, while writing the book, he was on Mr. Trump's jet, where he saw an obvious reproduction of that very Renoir.

SOUNDCLIP

TIM O’BRIAN: And I asked him about the painting, and Donald said that's an original Renoir. And I said no it's not, Donald. And he said that's the original. That's an original Renoir. I said Donald, it's not. I grew up in Chicago, that Renoir is called “Two Sisters (On a Terrace)”, and it's hanging on a wall at the Art Institute of Chicago. That's not an original. And Trump said no, no, no, it's an original. So I dropped it, we moved on with the interview. We get on the plane the next day, and he points to the painting again and he said you know, that's an original Renoir.

JD: Well as we know — and as Mr. O'Brian told him in no uncertain terms — it was not. And yet, the story continues. Mr. Trump sold his jet, and Tim O'Brien assumed that that fake Renoir had gone into the dumpster. But here's Mr. O'Brien again.

SOUNDCLIP

TO: And after he got elected, he and Mike Pence were interviewed on “60 Minutes” — like, days I think after the election — and they were seated in Trump Tower in these two little mini thrones — the kind of furniture Trump loves at Trump Tower. And I'm looking at them being interviewed, and sure enough, in the background, hanging on a wall is that fake Renoir. And I'm sure he's still telling people who come into the apartment it's an original. It's an original.

JD: That’s author Tim O'Brien, speaking with Nick Bilton on Vanity Fair’s “Inside the Hive” podcast. You can find that whole podcast at wwww.vanityfair.com. So there you have it. The Renoir is unreal. But Mr. Trump will not stop trying to impress upon people that it is the real impressionist deal — instead of an impressionist version of an impressionist.

[Music: A news-like theme]

Bigfoot taxidermist

Guest: Ken Walker

JD: A follow up now on a story we brought you earlier this week. On Wednesday, we spoke with Bob Gimlin, the cowboy who recorded what may be the most famous footage ever of Bigfoot, Fifty years ago this week. It turns out that Mr. Gimlin’s film did not just inspire a whole generation of Bigfoot believers. It also inspired a World Champion Alberta taxidermist to recreate Bigfoot, exactly as she appeared in that film. We reached Ken Walker at Walker's Wilderness Studio in Alberta Beach, Alberta.

CO: Ken, can you describe the big foot that you've created?

KEN WALKER: Yeah, most certainly. I created a model using recreation taxidermy techniques. And I used the still photos from the Patterson footage from 50 years ago in 1967, as the information for the ratio's and making the size of the form.

CO: And we just spoke with… Well there's Bob Patterson and Bob Gimlin, the two men who did that film. We spoke with Mr. Gimlin this week, and he described what he saw in that film. But no one's ever caught a Sasquatch, so whose fur did you use for your creation?

KW: What I ended up using was Highland steer — which turned out to be, according to my photographs, — just a bit too long. Of course, there's been witness corroboration of some that have longer fur. But using that as a reference, it was a little bit long. And — believe it or not — I actually had somebody come into the shop who has seen one up close and told me that it was too long.

CO: You have someone else who actually says they've seen a Sasquatch?

KW: There's a lot of people who have seen them — lots of people. And I basically do a lot of investigations just in the hunting community of people you know who have seen them.

CO: And so you have no doubt that the Sasquatch, Yeti, Bigfoot, Forest person, whatever exists?

KW: No doubt at all.

CO: You've never seen one though?

KW: I did.

CO: You did?

KW: Yeah, I saw one of them 30 years ago cross the road. And it didn't make sense to me, but I did not believe it. I did not believe what I was seeing. It had to be a man because it was on two feet, but it was in the middle of nowhere and it was acting very afraid of me at a quite a long distance. And I have since found out that there is a community in that exact area. I've corroborated the sighting.

CO: A community of what?

KW: When you investigate these sightings of these Sasquatch, they are usually all in the same areas. Like they have a history of being you know… if I find one sighting and it's and it's a good sighting, I will sooner or later find somebody else who will corroborate having seen one in the same area.

CO: Now how many Sasquatch do you think actually live in Alberta?

KW: In Alberta, it's so hard to say. They see them all the way from Waterton all the way up to Rainbow Lake, all across the western part of the province. You know, the area that I go into is closer to the Pembina River and the headwaters of the Pembina. That's where I personally go and look for structures, footprints and things like that.

CO: Now when we spoke with Bob Gimlin, he said that he believes that he was able to get that footage 50 years ago because the Sasquatch wanted to appear to him. And he said it was a female, so this female Yeti wanted to communicate with him. Do you think that they're trying to speak to people?

KW: I think from what I remember of the story of, and I haven't had the privilege of speaking with Mr. Gimlin, but I've watched him interview. He seems like just you good ‘ole horse wrangler. I mean those are good people as a rule. And they were following the tracks of three: her and two young ones. Now it makes total sense to me that if they got too close and they were in a position where they were compromised, she came out in the open on purpose to draw them away from the two young ones.

CO: When we spoke with Bob, he said he's convinced it was a female because she had breasts. The one you have made in your taxidermist shop, is it male or female?

KW: It's female. It's exactly what was in that film. I did construct the breasts and put it on to the model. And, of course, a lot of people asked me like why did you do that? And I have to explain to them that this isn't the creation. This isn't something I made up. I faithfully follow the photographs, and tried to recreate what was what was in the photographs.

CO: Now how have people responded to your recreation of Bigfoot?

KW: Oh, it's great because I actually use it to find new sightings. If I have a hunter come into my taxidermy shop to drop something off — or you know come and look at the mounts — you know they'll point at it and they'll say you're kidding, right? You know or things like that. And I know that to them they've never seen one. But I get people who come in and will look at it, and they will walk away from it with the look on their face like they wish they hadn't seen it at all.

CO: Why do you think that they have that reaction?

KW: They've seen one before, and they don’t want to talk about it.

CO: They are spooked.

KW: Yeah, one lady came in who saw one very, very, close on the on Highway 16. on the way to Kamloops. One crossed the road and they almost hit it. And she actually cried when she saw it because it's a very unsettling experience for people because it crashes everything — all your belief system, and everything — when you see one.

CO: Well Ken, congratulations on your work and the documentary. And thanks for speaking with us.

KW: Oh, no worries. It was my pleasure.

CO: Bye bye.

KW: Bye bye.

JD: Ken Walker is the owner of Walker's Wilderness Studio in Alberta beach, Alberta. And that, indeed, is where we reached him.

[Music: Soundtrack music]

Listener Response: Haggis lover

JD: Simon Bentall welcomes the offical news. The Ontario shopkeeper owns The Scottish Loft in Niagara- on-the-Lake, Ontario. And as he told us last night, he is proud to sell imported Scottish foods and goods. But there has always been a key delicacy missing: genuine, Scottish haggis. Because Canada has a longstanding ban on importing the entrails and internal organs of animals, which also happened to be the appetizing ingredients found in any good haggis recipe. Now, however, for the first time in fifty years, MacSween of Edinburgh — a Scottish company known for its varieties of haggis — has created a new offal-less haggis that is ready for Canadian shelves… and waste receptacles. Mr. Bentall is overjoyed, and reminded listeners, quote, “Don't knock it until you try it.” Well gutless or not, it is still a tough sell for listener Bernadette Murdoch, who tweeted, quote, “I just recently tried it when I was in Scotland last week. I can mock.” But we did hear from at least one pro haggis-smuggling fan, who left this message on our Talkback line.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: A loud beep]

THOMAS LAPIERRE: Yes hello, this is Thomas Lapierre, phoning from Montreal. I've been to Scotland many times with my family and we love haggis. We always fill our rubber boots with tins of Grant’s haggis on our return journey so we can you know try to get through customs easily, which has always happened. We stuff chicken breast with it. We have it on its own. We've had scotch eggs with haggis. Scotch eggs are hard boiled eggs that usually are wrapped in sausage meat. Wrap it in haggis, excellent. I only have three cans left. As soon as I listened to your story, I went and found it. And the Grant haggis is 45 per cent lamb loves. Google it! It was pretty vague about it, but they think it might have lungs in it. Anyways, because I only have three cans, I'm going to have to book tickets to go back to Scotland this year. And, by the way, our cat is named “Haggis”.

JD: Well, thank you. Thank you all for your comments. You can find her full interview with haggis importer Simon Bentall on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. We are also on Facebook or Twitter: @cbcasithappens. You can e-mail us: aih@cbc.ca. Or leave us a message: 416.205.5687

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October 20, 2017 episode transcript

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