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The AIH Transcript for September 13, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight.

CO: Eight nursing home patients have died in Florida after Hurricane Irma brought the air conditioning system down and a doctor describes what he saw in his crowded E.R. earlier this morning.

JD: Great power and great responsibility. Former conservative powerbroker Lowell Murray remembers the extraordinary political antenna of his friend and former foe Liberal Cabinet Minister Allan MacEachen.

CO: Not a drop to drink, or to bathe in, or to launder with. In the Potlolek First nation in Cape Breton the water is contaminated and a local resident is fed up.

JD: A hero's unwelcome. Indian author and politician Shashi Tharoor on why Britain should stop glorifying their inglorious past, including a man he compared to a genocidal dictator — Sir Winston Churchill.

CO: He won’t backpedal, he’ll peel back the petals. A councillor in Chesterfield, U.K. stands by his town's floral tribute to Princess Diana, even though most people are describing it as a blooming disgrace.

JD: And…it's still young but it's aging grease-fully. A colossal fatberg — like an iceberg of fat — is blocking part of the London sewer and a worker who's grappling with it explains how it's wreaking havoc, and just plain wreaking. As It Happens The Wednesday edition. Radio that knows it's not being celebrated but it is being fêted.

[Music: Theme]

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Part 1: Nursing home deaths, Potlotek water, Diana floral arrangement

Nursing home deaths

Guest: Dr. Randy Katz

JD: First hurricane Irma came, and then the high temperatures came. At a nursing home in Hollywood, Florida the heat had deadly consequences. Eight patients at the Hollywood Rehabilitation Center died after the nursing homes air conditioning system was knocked out by the storm. Family members of patients had been raising alarm bells about the heat in the days before. Ellie Peña’s 96-year-old mother was a patient there. Here's what Ms. Peña had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

ELLIE PENA: I kept calling. This is an emergency, we know that this is life threatening. Yesterday emphasized the fact that it was too hot in here

JD: Right across the street from the nursing home is the Memorial Regional Hospital. Dr. Randy Katz is an emergency doctor there, he treated dozens of patients this morning. We reached Dr. Katz earlier today in Hollywood, Florida.

CO: Dr. Katz, what was the scene at this nursing home when you arrived there early this morning?

DOCTOR RANDY KATZ: Well, when I arrived the evacuation was already in process. So we had 115 patients that our facility, and just for the record Memorial Healthcare System is located in close proximity to this facility, walking distance essentially. And when we got notice that there was a safety issue there and that we had 115 - 120 patients we had to evacuate, we immediately took all of our resources from the hospital — as many nurses, and respiratory therapists, and patient transporters, and physicians we can get over there — and we essentially had all of those patients coming out of the facility. There were a number of them that were critically ill, that we had to immediately bring into our emergency department. And then the other 115 patients we brought in basically fire rescue and other transporting agencies, to get those patients to sort of our sister hospitals nearby, to get them to safety to make sure that they had what they needed from a medical standpoint.

CO: And this is about, we say this morning early, early, about 4:00 a.m. I think you arrived right?

RK: I arrived approximately at 7:30 a.m. So it took approximately two hours to get everybody out of there and get them to safety. So I kind of came in right at the middle of the incident and there were a number of people already on scene when I got there.

CO: What condition were these people in when you got to see them?

RK: You know, as I said, there were a number of critically ill patients that were in respiratory distress — who appeared critically ill. A handful of those patients were taken immediately by stretcher down the street right to our hospital. A lot of them were non-ambulatory, wheelchair-bound type patients — most of them over 75 years of age. A lot of dehydration and that type of thing, that that you can essentially determine on scene.

CO: But three three people died in that nursing home during this period. Another three died, I guess, in your hospital after they were they were taken out of there — evacuated out of there — so some of them were quite bad condition?

RK: Correct. We actually brought our resources over to the nursing home, and brought our stretchers over there put these patients on stretchers and actually brought them back to our emergency department — the ones that were critically ill. The rest of them, we set up a staging area, and we basically had transporting agencies, both fire rescue and private ambulance, and we actually had a city bus at one point, that responded, and we were able to get all these patients, you know, into a transporting vehicle and get them to one of our sister hospitals. Within about an hour that we were able to evacuate and get everybody out of there once we responded.

CO: So people who were in there, who went inside to see their family, they said that it was so hot you could you couldn't breathe, it felt like it was 100 degrees in there. And so did you get a sense — do you know how long these people had been sitting there without any kind of ventilation or air conditioning?

RK: I don't know but I can tell you the temperatures here in South Florida, particularly in Hollywood, have been in the mid-90s the past few days following the hurricane. So in a facility without air conditioning, or a house without air conditioning, temperatures would probably reach above 100 degrees.

CO: And what does your hospital have in the way of cooling?

RK: We have a generator that we have been using throughout the hurricane and post-hurricane — we have electricity. So we've never lost power at our facility, but we do prepare, and we have an emergency preparedness plan that we put into effect before the hurricane because we know that, you know, as a health care system in the community we need to be available for the people that need us.

CO: And so now what is the state of the other people who are evacuated?

RK: Most of them are being reunited right now with their families. So we're making an effort to make sure that family members know that their loved ones are safe. We're getting all of them reunited, and that's been our challenge the past few hours, is really, you know, people are hearing it on the news and they know their family member’s there, and so they're showing up at the hospital and trying to find their family member to make sure that they're safe and in good condition. So our efforts right now are on reuniting family members to put them at ease and make sure that they know that their loved one’s are safe.

CO: I know you're a public health official but is there an effort to try and see if there's any problems like this in other nursing homes where people have been without electricity?

RK: I do know the police here in the city of Hollywood have made an effort to round on all of the nursing homes in our city and I believe we have up to close to 40 of them here in the city of Hollywood. I do know police is making an effort right now to stop at each one of those facilities to make sure they have air conditioning, they have electricity, and have all the things they need to take care of these patients that are vulnerable to heat, and exhaustion, and infection and all those other medical issues they're running into.

CO: I know as an emergency doctor you see some pretty, pretty awful things and conditions — what was it like for your staff to see these people and when you got to see them early in the morning?

RK: It's disheartening — it's sad. I think all of us as health care providers, you know, hate to see this type of thing, you know, patient neglect and that type of thing. You know, we we have been struggling through the aftermath of the hurricane trying to get everybody what they need. Most of our providers have families and homes without electricity, so they're trying to take care of all of their personal needs at the same time trying to take care of patients 12 hours a day. So a lot of them are stressed and taxed as far as you know emotional and physical energy. And then when things like this happen, you know, three days into the aftermath of the hurricane it's, it's been tough, but our stuff is hanging in there. We have plenty of people here that are coming in after hours and you know relief staff. We're trying to rotate everybody and announce that everybody gets rest and we can make sure that we take care of our patients here at the hospital.

CO: But when you really when you think that these people were just across the street and then all that stress must be disheartening.

RK: Yeah, to know that we were we were here, and if patients there needed us we would have been able to take care of them — to know that and know that these patients were suffering — it's sad to say the least.

CO: Dr. Katz and now you've got lots to do and I appreciate you speaking with us.

RK: Thank you.

JD: Dr. Randy Katz is an emergency doctor in Hollywood, Florida. That is where we reached him earlier today. And since we spoke with Dr. Katz the number of deaths has risen to eight.

[Music: Ambient Piano]

Potlotek water

Guest: Bernadette Marshall

JD: When people in Potlotek First Nation, in Cape Breton, turn on their taps water does come out. The problem is residents have been told that they cannot drink it, they cannot bathe in it, they cannot even wash their clothes in it. It is not the first time the community has had warnings about the water. A year ago photos were circulated showing a bath tub full of muddy dark brown water, which came from the community supply. Bernadette Marshall lives in Potlotek, and that is where we reached her.

CO: Bernadette what does your water look and smell like when you turn on the tap?

BERNADETTE MARSHALL: There's a foul smell to it. I don't know what the smell is, but it's just to it. It's discoloured — it's like a brownish tinge to it.

CO: Have you seen this before?

BM: Yes, we've seen it many times during the past year. Manganese and iron — a high percentage of manganese and iron in the water. Actually, the other day when I found out, I had gone out, and I came in the house and grabbed my phone and there was a bunch inboxes. And there was a lot of texts — people telling me to look on Facebook — there was a letter that was sent by Health Canada to our Chief, and it was posted on Facebook. So I read it and it said that absolutely nobody drinks the water, no bathing in the water, and you can't wash your clothes with the water or anything.

CO: So how can you do anything? How can you live there without being able to at least, I mean, do anything with the water.

BM: We're living, but they providing us with four-litre bottles of water a day.

CO: So you’re getting four litres per person a day, that's it?

BM: Yeah, nobody's telling us when we’ll be able to drink the water again or use the water no one is saying anything. We've got people there at the watershed trying to fix it. So hopefully they can come up with something soon. It's hard on the elders — it's hard on the whole community — but more so for the elders and the babies — the children.

CO: Trying to keep them clean and wash clothes, and you got kids going to school.

BM: Yes, and we have a school right the community, so you know, esch classroom has a water jug, and then we have hand sanitizer for the children to wash their hands. But it's, you know, it's, it's just — we're in a crisis — we're in a crisis situation with the water here on our reserve.

CO: And what are people, what are people saying? I mean, what how are you feeling about this yourself?

BM: I’m angry, I'm very angry with the government. This should have been fixed years ago. I mean we have Health Canada come in doing testing on the water so many times a year, so I'm just wondering why. Why? You know, what's going on here that what we're not seeing. Why isn't it fixed?

CO: Now they're saying — the Health Canada is saying that the water discolouration — it's an aesthetic objective — that's, that's what the problem is — and it's not that it's actually unhealthy. What do you say to that?

BM: I don't believe them, again, I don't believe what they're saying we have children in our community with skin diseases — I don't believe them.

CO: So have you made that clear to do to the government — that this is the case?

BM: We've made it clear when they showed up here last fall that we didn't trust them, and we wanted individual testing of how much manganese and iron is in our system, we need money to get tested.

Co: But they are doing something. I understand last October the government, the federal government agreed to install a new water system for Potlotek?

BM: Yes, that's what they told us. So if they did that last year then we wouldn't have a problem this year.

CO: And how are you and your family members — how are you going to make do on four litres a day?

BM: Well, we're trying. You know, you've got a budget on your water now. You've got to get your four litres whatever. And hopefully they'll increase that because the children have to bathe. You have to bsthe yourself, and you’ve got to drink water. You know, you’ve got to survive to drink water know. I don't know. I pray that they’ll will give us more water and they'll remedy this as soon as possible.

CO: We know that the federal government — the Liberals — said that they were going to fix the water issues, not just on us but on all Indigenous communities — and now Prime Minister Trudeau's being accused of dragging his feet. What would you will you say to the Prime Minister if you could talk to him now?

BM: if I could talk to the Prime Minister right this minute, I would tell him, “Fix our water, please. Please fix our water.” You know we need it, we need water, you need water to survive. Some of our band members are on social assistance and they can't afford to buy water all the time — snd you're on a limited budget. You know, I pity the people that are on social assistance and the limited assistance like old age. The elders they only get old age pension — everybody's on a limited budget right. You just can't afford to go buy it every day. A lot of people were doing that this past year. And, you know, I personally drink the water when they told me it was safe. I can't afford to go buy water every day.

CO: Well maybe we’ll get that message out to the Prime Minister and the Government, and I hear you. Bernadette, I really appreciate you telling us what's going on.

BM: Thank you very much.

CO:Take care.

BM: OK. Bye, bye.

JM: We reached Bernadette Marshall in but Potlotek First Nation, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. There are currently more than 100 boil-water advisories in First Nations communities across this country.

[Music: Strings]

Deportation update

There have been so many twists and turns to Samim Bigzad’s story — today we have yet another update. Mr. Bigzad is the 22-year-old Afghan asylum seeker who was ordered to be deported by the U.K. government for a second time yesterday. But as he was awaiting a flight to Kabul from Istanbul, a last minute court order spared him from deportation — or at least that's what everyone thought. He was supposed to get back on a flight to London. We learned today that security escorts put Mr. Bigzad on a flight to Kabul anyway. His lawyer was quote, “appalled.” He told us Mr. Bigzad had feared that in Kabul he would be targeted by the Taliban. And so today another court order in the U.K. A judge ordered Mr. Bigzad leave Kabul on the next available flight back to the U.K., and also demanded that the U.K. Home Office do some explaining. We reached out to the U.K. Home Office for comment, we did not get a response. We will give you more updates on Samim Bigzad’s case as we get them.

[Music: Piano Ballad]

Diana floral arrangement

Guest: Steve Brunt

JD: It was supposed to be a glorious natural memorial — instead it's catching people off guard-en. A floral tribute to Princess Diana in Chesterfield, U.K. is being called a quote, “insult,” after photos of the portraits spread on social media. If you'd like see it for yourself it's on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. Chesterfield council however, is defending the work that was made by 14 volunteers, and is currently on display in the town centre. Steve Brunt is one of the town councillors, we reached him in Chesterfield.

CO: Mr. Brand, what was your first reaction when you saw this floral tribute to the Princess of Wales?

COUNCILLOR STEVE BRUNT: The first thing I thought when I saw it — I thought about the hard work that 14 volunteers, up to 14 volunteers, to create it. It's not an easy job. It's not an easy task. They picked the commemoration of Princess Diana. She's well respected by the people of Chesterfield, and of course the nation and internationally. I just saw the all the hard work.

CO: And what was your reaction to the image itself?

SB: The image — I hada go at this. I was Mayor of Chesterfield last year — I was very fortunate to be chosen to be Mayor — and when they were doing the wall dressing last year I went down and it’s a notoriously difficult, finicky little job to do. And I am told avoid doing portraits — it’s not the medium to do using flowers, grasses, and in this case they've used cow parsley, grass seeds, rowan berries and all sorts of stuff. So to get a good likeness is very, very difficult.

CO: So do you think it's successful?

SB: I think it's, it's created — it obviously created a talking point — I’m talking to you in Canada, in that wonderful country. We've had lots of comments from Australia, from New Zealand — America. I believe it's over a million hits, it’s had now on our website — so it's certainly created a talking point.

CO: It seems to create a talking point because people think it's just simply awful.

SB: No, no, no I wouldn't agree, I wouldn't agree. Not all the comments follow that line. A lot of the commons recognize, as we do on the Chesterfield Board of Council, the dedication of the volunteers — the work they do, and how difficult it is to do it.

CO: Now there you say it's made out of all these things —flowers and whatnot. And so the hair looks fairly successful, but the face, I guess, is the big issue. It's kind of odd isn't it? What is the face actually made of?

SB: The materials, well it's a mixture. Carnations, chrysanthemums, cow parsley, leaves, grass seeds, rowan berries and egg shell. It will be on display until Saturday afternoon, and then it will come down and the board which it is on will be used again and the materials will be recycled. It only lasts a week because it's organic. I mean, it starts to deteriorate quite quickly.

CO: Why do you think her teeth are so gray? What are the teeth made of?

SB: I'm not quite sure. I really, really don't know what that material is on the teeth. I've not looked into it that deeply.

CO: And then their lips are is kind of odd color of pink — do you have any idea about that?

SB: They certainly stand out. We've had several comments about the eyes as well.

CO: Because this is a big black line around her eyes but they do look — they’re very striking aren’t they — those eyes.

SB: They are. They are. It was a well-intentioned piece of work, done in the best interest of everyone, and the volunteers that we can’t praise them enough.

CO: Now how are they feeling about the fact that there has been a lot of criticism about this image?

SB: Well, I would imagine they're not feeling too pleased, but at the same time we keep reminding them it's about 50/50 in terms of negative and positive comments.

CO: What are the positive. I haven't seen — sorry I apologize, I haven't noticed many positive comments. What are the positive things people have had to say about the portrait?

SB: Well, people are recognizing all the hard work that goes into it. As I said, in this particular piece of work — 120 hours up to 14 volunteers,

CO: Now, it's interesting that there are other cases where there are portraits that became controversial because they were this strikingly strange. There is a portrait of Jesus that's in a small town in Spain that was so controversial — actually people go to that town just to see that image.

SB: That’s correct. And I'm sure due to a lot of publicity, I mean, you're the seventh media outlet I’ve spoken to over the last six or seven hours — And we will get more people coming in to Chesterfield to see it before it is taken down on Saturday.

CO: And it’s OK if they're coming from all over the place even if they're mocking it?

SB: If tthey’re mocking it —I mean, all art is subjective. I mean, you might not remember this, but I remember a lady, a famous artist in this country, getting out of bed, not making her bed, and putting it on display and calling it a work of art.

CO: Right.

SB: That was Tracey Emin. And what would you think of that? You know I wouldn't have thought it's a work of art, but is subjective, and it's people's opinions, and we value everyone's opinions.

CO: All right we'll leave it there Mr. Brunk, thank you.

SB: Thank you very much. Bye, bye

CO: Bye, bye.

JD: Steve Brunt is a town councilor in the English town of Chesterfield, that is where we reached him. For more on that story, including a photograph of the floral tribute to Diana, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Upbeat Strings Section]

Octlantis

JD: A group of sharks is called a shiver — a group of trout a hover — there is no name for a group of octopuses. That may seem like an oversight — but don't expect octopus's to sign a petition about it. They tend not to hang out together, which is why there's no collective name for them. They usually only get together to mate. But back in 2009, off the east coast of Australia, a researcher discovered a settlement of as many as 16 gloomy octopuses — a species identifiable by its white pupils and orange arms. There were several octopus dens and the creatures interacted. They didn't pal around exactly, but they hung out — the researcher called it Octopolis. At the time that was considered an anomaly but now a second gloomy octopus settlement has been found — just a few hundred metres from the first one. There are about 15 gloomy octopuses living there. There is interaction ranging from open hostility to reluctant acceptance, and there are octopus dens some of which have been sculpted by the octopuses themselves using the shells of their prey. It doesn't sound like a fun community necessarily, but the residents do appear to at least be enduring each other's company, which is perhaps the best you can expect from gloomy octopus's. Researchers have called this settlement Octlantis, which is as awkward to say, as it seems awkward to live in. They don't know why the octopuses opt to awkwardly occupy the same space and no one's willing to just guess because that would mean going out on an awful lot of limbs.

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Part 2: Allan MacEachen obit, giant fatberg

Allan MacEachen obit

Guest: Lowell Murray

JD: Alan MacEachen is being remembered tonight both as a masterful a political operator and as a one of those rare politicians who actually got things done. The longtime Liberal minister died yesterday, he was 96 years old. Mr. MacEachen was the Health Minister who oversaw the introduction of public health care. He was also the Liberal who orchestrated the early end of Joe Clark's Conservative government. And that last achievement may not have endeared Mr MacEachen to conservative Senator Lowell Murray but the two Cape Bretonners were longtime friends. We reached Lowell Murray in Margaree Forks, Cape Breton.

CO: Mr. Murray, first of all I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.

SENATOR LOWELL MURRAY: Well we’ve known each other for a very long time going back to the mid 1950s, and then during the 60s when I went to Ottawa as a political assistant and he was at that time an advisor and Mr. Pearson's office and much, much later as adversaries in the Senate. And after that we we renewed our friendship. He was a frequent guest at our house, and in more recent years, we had both been a few miles apart in Cape Breton. He in East Lake Ainslie, and I in Margaree Forks, so we saw a great deal of each other.

CO: What was he like as a friend. What kind of friend was he for you?

LM: He was very thoughtful and very considerate. Colleen, my wife, used to bake him a birthday cake every year, and always when he would come here, as they did frequently, they would leave with some things that she had cooked and thought they’d enjoy, but he would always come back with gift certificates for various restaurants in the area, so much so, we had to ask him to stop, but he wouldn't stop — then he started sending them to her mother.

[LAUGHTER]

LM: He really was it was a very, very thoughtful and interesting, and engaging friend to have.

CO: You took the sharp stick of his opposition, in many instances, but one particularly, one very famous one, you had helped to elect Joe Clark and he orchestrated the non-confidence motion that brought down the short lived, Clark government.

LM: People said well we couldn't count. We did and we knew what the vote was going to be. As I said, our sin was far greater — we were overconfident. I thought we would lose the vote and we would win the election — the ensuing election — a lot of people thought that might happen, but we hadn't reckoned with the views of the country on some of the tax measures we had brought in, and we lost. But that's the breaks of the game, it was not something one would take personally particularly.

CO: I mean, because it must have hurt because you worked hard to get there.

LM: I thought we would win but we didn't win it. So, you know, I had a role to play. I was in the Senate and later as government leader I faced him — he was the opposition leader in the Senate and we were outnumbered. The Conservative Party government was outnumbered three-to-one when I became leader in there. For some years, until almost until the very end, we had to negotiate everything through the Liberal leadership and the Liberal caucus. Fortunately both of us had deputies who did a lot of the heavy lifting but there were some things that the two of us had to negotiate together. We had to agree every session on how many liberals and how many conservatives will be on each committee, and how many chairmanships the liberals would get, and how many chairmanships we'd get. And both of us had had colleagues whose interests, and ambitions, and egos had to be accommodated, but we managed —we got through it.

CO: It's rare for a politician to be as, I guess, wily as Allan J was, at the same time he was able to accomplish some of the greatest legislative feats of that time. Allan MacEachen one of his great ones is to get Medicare through — he was deeply opposed wasn't he?

LM: This is something that serious students of politics should look into. It isn't just that he got those things done and I mean the Canada Labor Code, the Canada assistance plan, Medicare and so on — but what he had to do, what he did, how he got it through, as he said himself you can put something in your election platform but you get to Ottawa and other political colleagues have other priorities. The officials in government, the ongoing civil service — especially in finance, and Privy Council, and central agencies like that — have their own perspective on matters. Then there are all the outside interests — the professional, and business organizations, and labor, and the media, and the provinces, the provincial governments — you you put a program through that process, and if you're not very careful, what comes out will be unrecognizable to you. And on Medicare there was — even after it went through the Parliament — there was a big canvas to delay it for a year, and there were senior ministers in the in the Pearson government that wanted to delay it, the Prime Minister was undecided. And the provinces, of course, some of them wanted to delay it, and — and it was in the middle of a Liberal leadership race, of which he where he was a candidate — so he went to the private members of parliament — he hated the term “backbenchers.” He thought it demeaned, as it does, members of Parliament who happen not to be members of the government. I mean, they have the last word, truth to tell, in our system of government. So he went and he got enough of them onside and he went to people in his party and got them onside. And one way and another they managed to get it through, and the Prime Minister was very displeased by what had happened. And you know that he had quote, “divided the party,” unquote, in the event he got it through. And if it had been delayed for another year, God knows how long that would have taken to get it through — we might still be waiting.

CO: People in Inverness County — he just knows everyone as you point out — and there was one person who mentioned recently that Allan J is the last politician that we will know. Meaning that for Alan J It was always known that his constituents matter to him more than Ottawa. Did they break the mold after all and do you think?

LM: Well, I don't think so in that I've known. I know of politicians in both parties down here, provincial and federal, who have managed to model their conduct as MPs, MLAs on MacEachen — but he took his constituency very, very seriously. He wrote about this, he said coming to their constituency and speaking to people here was an antidote to the influences of other politicians, and bureaucrats, and media, I suppose, and others in Ottawa — it was his link to reality.

CO: Mr. Murray thank you so much for telling us your memories of Alan J.

LM: Bye Carol. Thank you.

JD: Lowell Murray is a former conservative senator and was a friend of longtime liberal minister and Senator Alan McCracken. Mr. Murray was in Margaree Forks, Cape Breton. In 2003 St. Jerome's University in Waterloo, asked Mr. MacEachen to speak about religion and the politics of Pierre Trudeau. Mr. MacEachen told a couple of stories from one of Mr. Trudeau's visits to Cape Breton. One involved that thing the Scots swear in front of their kilts, and he began with their visit to a local church.

SOUNDCLIP

ALLAN MACEACHEN: The pastor, Father McLoud, had been a classmate of mine at St. FX. You know, in my class at St. FX There were 48 graduates — 12 of whom became priests — 12. And we also produced one United Church minister. I preferred politics to the priesthood, and I must say, and I must admit, that in my long political life, with my association with my constituents, I heard more confessions than the combined effort of my priestly classmates.

[LAUGHTER]

AM: Now, later in the day, Mr. Trudeau opens the Gaelic Monod at St. Ann's, Cape Breton. He was garbed in the Elliot kilt. Now in packing for the journey Mr. Trudeau forgot to include his sporran. You know what the sporran is for a kilt? And what should we do? I said, “Well go ahead.” Well it wasn't good advice. His photograph in the kilt without a sporran and was widely shown in British newspapers — he got exposure. And it was not only media exposure. And following the events he quietly confided to me , he could now understand why a sporran was necessary in wearing a kilt.

JD: That was former Liberal senator and Cabinet Minister Allan MacEachen speaking in Waterloo, Ontario in 2003. Allan MacEachen died yesterday. He was 96 years old.

[Music: Scottish March]

Giant fatberg

Guest: Alex Saunders

JD: Picture a giant iceberg in a beautiful cavern — kind of takes your breath away doesn't it? And now in your mind's eye, replace the ice in the berg with coagulated fat, and the cave with the London sewer system — still takes your breath away — but for different reasons. And that is what Alex Saunders is dealing with a fatberg. Mr. Saunders is the waste network manager with Thames Water, and today he got up close and personal with the massive fetberg that is blocking part of London's sewer system. We reached Mr. Saunders in Redding.

CO: Mr. Saunders, I know you were in the presence of this massive fatberg today — I guess first of all what does it smell like?

ALEX SAUNDERS: Oh, it's not a nice smell. I would describe it as probably a mixture of rotten eggs combined with a nasty smelling public toilet — is how would best I describe it.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: This is a supper-hour program so that is distressing to hear. What is it made up of?

AS: So fatberg, as we like to call it, is a mixture of fats, oils and greases — things that people put down the kitchen sink, or from a takeaway store that shouldn't go down the sewer — combined with lots of sanitary items particularly things like wet wipes. And what happens is the fat hardens and it mixes with the sanitary items to form a very hard, almost concrete like blockage in the sewers.

CO: So wet wipes — not like ordinary toilet tissue? These particular kinds of things that just don't break up?

AS: Yes, so the really easy way that we like to remind our customers what should and shouldn’t go down the toilet, and down the sink, is to remember the three Ps. So them being pee, pooh, and toilet paper and those are things that we like to have down the sewers. Anything else is a definite no, no. So there's a big difference between toilet paper and wet wipes. So toilet paper soon as you put it in the toilet and you flush the toilet, it breaks up into lots of tiny bits that float in the sewer. Whereas a wet wipe is made up of lots of plastic parts. And that's why it doesn't break down. So, like I said, it combines with those oils and those greases, and forms it's really hard blockage, that gives us a really, really big problem.

CO: And you can't flush it out. You can't just like I know you had a lot of rain today — you can't get it to wash out?

AS: No, I’m afraid not. So what happens is it’s a bit like the arteries in your body. So when it leaves your house it goes down one of the small arteries you might find in your hands or your feet, and then eventually get to one of our biggest sewers, like your main arteries near your heart. And just like if you have a bit of a fatty diet your arteries clog up with fat — that's exactly what happens in the sewers. The fat clings to the side of the sewer no matter how much it's flowing through. And the sewers are quite cold places so the fat dries and hardens, and then once that process starts and then more comes through, it grows, and grows, and grows and that's how we've got the monster fatberg we’ve got lurking under the streets of Whitechapel, in London at the moment that we're trying to tackle.

CO: How big is this monster fatberg?

AS: It's a bit of a whopper — it’s of the biggest that we’ve found. It's about 130-tonnes in weight, and about 250-metres long, which we measure that in things like football pitches and London buses. It's about a couple of football pitches at Wembley Stadium or about 11 London buses.

CO: And so this is a continuous line — when you describe the length of that sewer pipe, sewer system would have that all plugged up for that length — that distance?

AS: Yes, it's one continual long fatberg. So the team that was on site with the yesterday were doing a fantastic job for the last week or so. They’ve managed to get to about 80 to 100 metres of it so far, so about a third of the way through with the remaining 90-tonnes left to pull out there.

CO: And how are they doing it — how do you dismantle this fatberg?.

AS: Yeah, so when one this one big stick it takes quite an effort. So we have some quite high-tech jetting equipment that allows us to basically fire very high-pressured water jets down, which allows to to break the big fatberg into kind of manageable chunk-sized pieces. Then, in this instance, it's actually a case of our guys getting down into the sewer, getting dirty, getting, you know, very wet, and actually manually pulling this stuff back out of the sewer. And then once we get it back to our manhole, our chamber, we then suck it out into big tankers and take it away.

CO: And the people who are doing this, including you, what was it like to be working on that?

AS: Well, as you can imagine it's a very hard job. So I was down on site with guys today. Ronnie was the young fit man who was actually heading the sewer, so we have them attached to harnesses, they have breathing kits, and there's a team above ground — if anything were to go wrong we can get them out safely. But it's very hard. Imagine carrying a big kind of rock with both hands, now imagine doing that in a cramped sewer, with sewage lapping at your feet — it's certainly not an environment that any of us would particularly choose to be in. But I was so impressed today and yesterday, with the attitude and the drive of the team just wanting to get this fatberg out and get the sewer running again.

CO: What does Ronnie say about it?

[LAUGHTER]

AS: Well, I think Ronnie was, you know, as we like to say, “a career in waste is not a career wasted.” And actually many, many of our teams are very, very committed to the job.

CO: I’m my presuming that what Ronnie has to say about this we can't repeat on the radio.

[LAUGHTER]

AS: Well I think if Ronnie were here, I think Ronnie would be saying please flush the three Ps down the toilet and the sink but nothing else.

CO: I understand that a museum wants a piece of the fatberg to put into its collection. Will you give them a piece of the fatberg?

AS: Yes, they're quite excited at the prospects of being able to cut a bit of fatberg and potentially preserve that for many years to come. I'm not an expert in preserving fatbergs so I don’t kow how they’re going to do it, but I think their angle on it is that our sewers particularly in London, were built 200 years ago — a phenomenal piece of engineering — they didn't have these problems in Victorian times. We've got these problems now and it's probably a combination of the way we live. Using things like wet wipes, our fatter diet, and the increasing population challenges we have in London. So when so you throw that into the melting pot we have the challenges. I think they see the fatberg as a symbol of the challenges of modern day. So, if you're a bit more of an artsy type then yeah I guess it is.

CO: It's so interesting — anyway it's awful and interesting at the same time — Mr. Saunders thanks for speaking with us.

AS: Thank you very much.

JD: Alex Saunders is the Waste Network Manager with Thames water. We reached him in Redding, England which is 269 fatberg circumferences west of London. And you can see a photograph of this fatberg — without having to smell it on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih

[Music: Bongo Drums & Bass]

Walrus Avis

Guest: Nicholas Coghlan

JD: Apparently even unlimited mileage has limits for the car rental company Avis. The Halifax band Walrus found that out the hard way when they returned from touring the US in a rented van. Turns out that even though the band paid extra for unlimited mileage while they were out touring — Avis not so impressed with the band's journey. Walrus guitarist and singer Justin Murphy spoke with the CBC's Moira Donovan about how the band was subsequently banned from renting cars from Avis.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN MURPHY: I think a lifetime ban for high mileage risk.

MOIRA DONOVAN: So how did that situation come about?

JM: We were on tour, we are in California and rented this van, took it all the way down to the States — back up to Calgary, then to Boise, then California —and all the way back home. We got robbed. We were in San Francisco, someone smashed our window and stole a bunch of our gear, and then we got back home and we were getting ready to go do another show somewhere, so we have another vehicle booked and then I got a Avis. They were like, “We regret to inform you that you will not be able to book the vehicle for this Wednesday.” I said, “OK does this have to do with the window getting smashed out?” And they’re like, “No you're on a list for high mileage risk, because you put 17,000 kilometers on the van in 20 days — so I’m banned.

JD: Justin Murphy is a member of the Halifax band Walrus. They have been banned from renting cars from Avis. He was speaking with the CBC's Moira Donovan. Don't worry though however Walrus will still be able to get around while they're touring Ontario. The band is now using the services of another rental company.

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September 13, 2017 episode transcript

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