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The AIH Transcript for September 7, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight.

CO: What's left now that Irma's left? The hurricane has a path of destruction ahead, but tonight the Prime Minister of Antigua and Barbuda tells us about the damage already done to a small Caribbean island

JD: They can't put up with where they're being put up. They had to leave their homes because of an approaching wildfire, but members of a Manitoba first nation say their Winnipeg accommodations are unbearable.

CO: Judged on his merits, or lack thereof. Nova Scotia’s Chief Justice orders a panel to consider complaints against the Halifax judge who acquitted a cabbie of sexually assaulting a highly intoxicated passenger.

JD: Aurora Bore-malice. When 29 sperm whales were stranded in the North Sea scientists had theories about climate change and toxins, but now it seems solar storms may have been partly to blame.

CO: Bat news travels fast after we aired a viral video in which an Irish family struggles to get a bat out of their kitchen, you shared your own bat snaring stories and turned our talkback line into an echolocation chamber.

JD: And…eyeing without batting an eye. We'll get a hold of the man who filmed that video, who's finally got a hold of himself, and we'll also speak with his unflappable, towel-wielding father, the legendary Derry Derry. As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that is haunted by the sound of battle and the sight of bat-towel.

[Music: Theme]

Back To Top »

Part 1: Hurricane Irma: Barbuda, Nova Scotia judge review, Irish bat family

Hurricane Irma: Barbuda

Guest: Gaston Browne

JD: As Hurricane Irma continues to swirl toward the Bahamas and Florida, the country's the storm hit yesterday are beginning to take stock of what happened. Irma is the strongest hurricane ever recorded in the Atlantic, and one of the hardest hit places was the small Caribbean island of Barbuda. Today it is still largely cut off, but Gaston Browne, the Prime Minister of Antigua and Barbuda managed to pay a visit to the island by helicopter. We reached Prime Minister Brown in St. John's, Antigua.

CO: Prime Minister Brown, how are you doing?

PRIME MINISTER GASTON BROWNE: Well, in the circumstances, just barely holding, on trying to preside over a very difficult situation here.

CO: Can you tell us your reaction when you saw the destruction of Barbuda yesterday?

GB: I had to tell you that, you know, I was saddened. It was an emotionally painful moment. It was total carnage. You know, they would have endured winds up to 230-miles-per-hour. And that itself created an unprecedented amount of damage in that Barbuda, to the extent that 90 per cent of the properties there were actually damage — many of them demolished. I would say that that was literally reduced to rubble — it looks like a major landfill — and that's no exaggeration.

CO: You said it was emotional — I'm sure it must have been to see, to see your country that way.

GB: I mean it’s a very beautiful island, and, you know, the promise for Barbuda was extremely good. More significantly is the damage to the properties there, and the fact that we have so many individuals who are homeless now. We have seen, you know, a once beautiful country totally decimated, and that is just heart wrenching. Now one of the interesting things is that, you know, Barbuda only has leased property — they do not have freehold properties — and generally the banks do not provide mortgages here on leasehold properties. So you find that the properties that have been actually impacted — properties that were built using decades of savings of Barbudans — and almost invariably they're not insured. So that in itself would even make the recovery efforts even more difficult. We have estimated the rebuilding of Barbuda to be in excess of 100 million U.S. dollars. That is certainly beyond the means of my government.

CO: And what about people? Were people injured — did you have any deaths on the island?

GB: Luckily for us, our preparedness started at least five days before. At the level of the central government, we had encouraged people to ensure that they prepared for the storm, and I guarantee you that if we were not at that level of heightened preparedness, the extent of fatalities and certainly injuries would have increased exponentially — so luckily for us we've only had one fatality.

CO: When you say 90 per cent destroyed — decimated — what is that like everything blown down?

GB: There’s some properties that have been totally demolished. But I’m referring to roofs that have been lost — would have been damage in some way. So I'm just saying here that at least 90 per cent of the properties on the island would have suffered some form of damage — lost part of their roof or some of it, or in many instances the entire roof. And we have had some properties that have been totally demolished. But the impact, literally, was not limited, or perhaps is only limited, to maybe about 5 per cent of the properties that would have escaped some form of damage.

CO: And what are people in Barbuda doing now? Do they have electricity? Do they have communication?

GB: There's no water — there's no telecommunications. We just recently got an additional ham radio over there as well as some satellite phones, but they are actually cut off a good 12 hours. We had absolutely no contact with them for about 12 hours after the passage of hurricane Irma. But we are now back in communications with them. We are taking relief supplies over, that part of it is going very well so far. Our biggest issue now is to ensure that we mobilize sufficient resources to assist with the rebuilding efforts.

CO: So you need water, you need, the people need food, do you need latrines — do you need people to get in there and do that kind of emergency work?

GB: Pretty much — that part of it is going very good. And we have had a strong response, and that part of it is going to be reasonably good. Another challenge that we’re faced with now is that there's an impending storm —Hurricane Jose — and if that one comes our way, which from all indications it is, we may have to evacuate all the residents in Barbuda within the next 24 hours.

CO: But did you evacuate them for, for Irma?

GB: No we did not and, I mean, they stayed there, as far as we were concerned they were prepared for the storm. But again, the preparation for a storm that has 185-miles-per-hour winds and gusts up to 230- miles-per-hour , I imagine that practically any country that would have in the path of such a storm would have been decimated, and that has been the situation here with Barbuda.

CO: And now with no shelter, and with everything so damaged, you can't face you Jose without leaving?

GB: The shelter is actually new. The shelter built by the Chinese government, about probably four years ago, and even that was damage. I mean, you're talking about, you know, a storm of unprecedented power.

CO: If you have to evacuate how many people will you have to get off Barbuda?

GB: I would suggest probably in the region about maybe 1800, and we're making arrangements to get a few helicopters, and a ferry as well, maybe two ferries.

CO: Have you ever seen or experienced anything like hurricane Irma?

GB: From the residents in Barbuda, they have said that they have never, ever witnessed anything of that nature and Antigua and Barbuda, they're not unaccustomed to the hurricanes and to powerful storms — that one was absolutely unprecedented, and it's resulted in unprecedented damages.

CO:Prime Minister Browne I know you got a lot to do so I'm going to let you go. I appreciate you speaking with us, thank you.

GB: My pleasure, thank you very much.

JD: Gaston Browne is the Prime Minister of Antigua and Barbuda. We reached him in St. John's, Antigua to see some pictures of the devastation on Barbuda visit our website: www.cba.ca/aih

[Music: Ambient Piano]

Nova Scotia judge review

Guest:

JD: Back in March, Nova Scotia Provincial Court Judge Gregory Lenehan, made headlines when he acquitted a cab driver of sexually assaulting a passenger. There was evidence that the woman passenger was highly intoxicated, but Judge Lenehan ruled that quote, “clearly a drunk can consent,” unquote. Now Nova Scotia’s Chief Justice has ordered a panel to review the complaints against Judge Lenahan. Dalhousie Law Professor Elaine Craig conducted a review of Judge Lenehan's decision. We reached her in Halifax.

CO: Professor Craig, why are you surprised by the decision to order this review of the complaints against the judge?

PROFESSOR ELAINE CRAIG: The main reason is — having reviewed the trial transcript myself — I found numerous, very problematic legal errors on the part of Judge Lenehan, but I didn't find any evidence of what I would consider to be judicial misconduct.

CO: Can you just explain a bit please — the distinction you're making between judicial misconduct and the errors you found in this decision?

EC: Sure. So judges make errors all the time, and we can accuse them of judicial misconduct simply for getting the law wrong. Now the errors in this case were deeply problematic and certainly warranted public outrage. Things like, you know, she didn't apply the right definition of capacity to consent to sex. So the complainant in this case was very intoxicated, and he got the legal test wrong in its application. He didn't uphold the rape shield provisions so he allowed evidence of what type of woman supposedly the complainant was when she was drunk. He ignored enormous circumstantial evidence that she in fact had not consented to the removal of her pants, and the positioning of her legs on the back of the car seats. So he seems to have allowed the stereotype of the so-called promiscuous, party-girl, you know, ready and willing to consent to anyone, to have infected his legal reasoning. These are all egregious and problematic legal errors, and his decisions should be overturned. But the difference between what happened in this case and a case involving judicial misconduct is, you know, he didn't express disdain

for the law of sexual assault, he didn't mock the definition of consent. What he did was, you know, fail to apparently understand or apply the law.

CO: The police officer who found the woman in the backseat of the cab, it's about 1:20 in the morning, and she was unconscious, naked from the waist down, as you just pointed out, her legs were on the front seats of the car. The driver's pants were undone. The woman — and there was evidence that this something had happened obviously — the police took her. She remembers nothing of what happened, she remembers only coming to in an ambulance or in hospital. This is one of the reasons why Judge Lenehan believed that there's no evidence that she consented or failed to consent.

EC: Yeah, but there was actually, I mean, much of what you've just listed is circumstantial evidence of lack of concent. You know, he ignored all of that evidence, in fact, he consistently said that that evidence didn't exist. So things like her bladder incontinence, and her unconsciousness, her distressed emotional state that night, the timeframe that you mentioned between when she was picked up by Al-Rawi and when she was found by the police. Al-Rawi’s very suspicious behavior, right, when the police found him — hiding her pants and underwear. These are all pieces of circumstantial evidence that the Crown introduced, and that judge Lenehan explicitly ignored. These are all pieces of evidence that suggest that she, in fact, did not consent to the removal of her pants and underwear, and positioning of her body.

CO: Of course the controversial remark was that the drunk can consent.

EC: Yeah. So, he's not wrong that people who have consumed alcohol — depending on how much alcohol is consumed — are still capable of consenting to sex. But the test is, the test isn't whether she was conscious, or whether she could speak, the test is whether she was capable of making an informed decision to consent to sex in that context. Sex, that in that context, involves, you know, unprotected, public sex with an unknown man. And while he initially stated the law correctly, he then went on to misapply it — unfortunately, he just got the law wrong.

CO: Well people are outraged, in part because this case reminds them of another case, that you also reviewed, and that's the case of former Justice Robin Camp, who infamously asked a woman, “why didn't you simply keep your knees together?” when she was allegedly sexually assaulted — but you see a distinction between the cases of these two judges.

EC: I do. Again, I think Judge Lenehan — his decision is thread through with legal errors — but unlike the former Justice Camp, he didn't mock the law of sexual assault — he didn't show disdain for it. Judge Camp, in my opinion — and certainly that was an opinion that in the end ended up being shared by the majority of the Canadian judicial council — the transcript showed significant evidence of him having disregard and disdain for legal protections that have been put in place to help complainants through what is a very traumatic experience, and to try and shift the way in which these trials are run.

CO: What should we be doing about judges who make mistakes like Judge Lenehan's?

EC: I think this case, as well as the case that Justice Camp was involved in, are strong evidence to support initiatives like the Bill C-337, which mandates the training of those who apply to be to be judges. I think, you know, this is a very obvious example of a judge who arguably requires some remedial training on the law of consent, the rape shield provisions, the role of stereotype in sexual assault trial. And so if we had review panels and hearings every time a trial judge relied on gender stereotypes, judges wouldn't have any time left to do much else. The issue here is judicial education and training from, my review.

CO: Professor Craig good to have you on the program. Thank you.

EC: My pleasure.

JD: Elaine Craig is a professor at Dalhousie's Schulich School of Law and we reached her in Halifax.

[Music: Jazz]

Irish bat family

Guest: Tadgh & Derry Fleming

JD: You might have heard some of the chaos that ensued in a family's kitchen in County Kerry, Ireland, on the program last night, and if you did hear that then you most likely pulled up that video online immediately after hearing it. You probably watched it over, and over again like we did. If you did not hear it, it sounded a bit like this.

SOUNDCLIP

TADGH FLEMING Catch him. Catch him Derry! Derry, catch him! It’s a bat, get the bat!

JD: That it is Tadgh Fleming narrating as his dad, Derek Fleming, tried to catch a bat in their kitchen earlier this week. Well after we played that we heard from a number of listeners who, of course, had their own, sometimes terrifying, bat stories. And we're going to share a couple of those later on in the program. First though, we thought, we have to call up the Fleming family to hear their story. We reached Tadgh and Derry Fleming at their home in Ballymacelligott, Ireland.

CO: Tadgh, I want to start with you. Has anyone in your town of Ballymacelligott ever received this much attention?

JD: No one. I'd say I put Ballymacelligott on the map. I say it’ll be visited by everyone now to visit “Bat-Dad” But it's crazy how mad it's gotten.

CO: And you mentioned “Bat Dad” — that that's what you're calling your dad — Derry, your son's calling you Bat Dad. What are people calling you? Are you picking up that name — Bat Dad?

DERRY FLEMING: Yes, I sure am. And people are coming into the office while I work, they’re saying, “oh you know the guy Bat Man — is he around?

[LAUGHTER]

CO: And this is all because of this crazy video Tadgh, that you made and posted, and so describe how the bat got into your house?

TF: Oh my God, it was absolutely nuts. So my mom was doing the ironing in the kitchen and then she went out the back door, and she left the back door open, and the bat came straight in. And then she ran out to the hall and started looking through the window, and she left the bathroom there with myself and my dad. My immediate reaction was to take the phone out and start videoing it, and putting it up on Snapchat, and then I hid behind another door in the utility, and I just let my dad one-on-one with the bat, and it just was pure chaos. We’re only after getting a pup, and have him a week, and in the midst of the whole, my dad try to catch the bath, the pup did his business on the floor. My dad was in my football shorts and wolly socks up to his knees, and it was just absolutely crazy. You couldn't write it, like it was a comedy.

CO: Now Tadgh, you said that your first instinct was to pick up the phone and start filming. So, I mean, why wasn't your first instinct to pick up something and try to catch the bat along with your dad?

TF: It was just because I'm always videoing, I'm always doing snapchat, I’m always doing comedy sketches with my dad, and I seen him in my with the shorts, and with the socks up to his knees, and I was like — and he was he just got a tea towel, a small, little tea towel, that you knew he wasn't going to catch the bat with that. And I just said, “Oh my God, I've got to get this on.” And as I was videoing I was trying to help him out. I think I was hindering him more than anything else — he couldn't catch him. I was just trying to get him, to get him, and get him out of the house safely. And like my mom then looking in, it was just, it was hilarious, like the whole thing.

CO: Derry, do you think your son could have helped you? Did you need his help at any point?

[LAUGHTER]

DF: Let me tell you, my son was as as mom. He was petrified and that's why he ran behind the door.

CO: So he wasn't going to be much help to you anyway.

DF: No he wasn't. It was right. He was petrified really. He left all the work to his dad because of course, like I have to protect the family like — we thought it might be vampire bat.

CO: And you are the man of the house and you wereprotecting him.

DF: You know I have to protect my family at all costs — even risking my own life.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: Now Derry, your son's teasing you that you picked up a tea towel to start that.

DF: What i caught in the beginning it would be easier like, with a small one, because my first priority like was not harm the little creature. And it can fly, I think 40 miles per hour. So that's why the towel got a bit bigger so I went for the back towel.

CO: And that's how you finally caught it? Now OK, so you've both mentioned, besides you, and your son and the bat, there was another character here, which was your mom, and your wife. So, and, well we can hear in the video you say — what is it you're saying to your mom Tadgh?

TF: I was like, tell her stop looking through the window Maureen.

DF: We thought that she was frightening the bat by looking through the window.

TG: And she was putting my dad off as well.

CO: How was she putting your dad off?

TF: He was there and he was looking at her watching him trying to capture the bat. And I think he was under pressure because the bat was panicking around the place. So I went over to her and I said, “Would you back away from the window please?”

CO: Now Tadgh can I point out to you, that you were in behind another window, doing exactly the same thing that your mother was doing?

[LAUGHTER]

TF: I know. I’ve seen a load of comments saying, “Why was he giving out to the mom when he was worse than her?”

CO: Exactly. So what's your answer to that?

TF: Well, my answer is that I think that I was, I was, I was afraid of the bat alright, but I was trying to “man up” myself, but no it wasn't working. I was behind the door, and my mom was the door and my dad was the only fella who took on the bat and safely removed him.

CO: All right, so you mentioned one more character was introduce into this movie, which is your little puppy.

TF: Basil.

DF: Basil.

CO: Basil? Where did you get that name — is it after Fawlty Towers?

DF & SF: Yes. It was a comedy show.

CO: So Derry, what was the puppy doing through all of this?

DF: Well the puppy was — I actually had forgotten about the puppy at this stage like with the pandemonium. So, I think, first of all, you got a bit of a panic with all that was going on. So he decided to take a leak. So I didn't realize this until after I had the socks on. You know, I could wait.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: So in the middle of all this Basil was peeing on the floor?

DF: Yes.

CO: And Tadgh catches it. Tadgh you gave you gave blow-by-blow commentary of all this.

TF: I had I had a bird's eye view of what was going on. I could see my mom, I could see my dad, I could see the dog it was a great vantage point of everything that was going on. And thank God filmed it because we have it now forever. And the amount of people saying that they got a good laugh out of it. And it was an honest kind of fun, and a video that people can, like, sit back and just laugh, at it and just, kind of — it's like your typical Irish family — but I kind of captured the moment on video.

CO: Just a typical Irish family — and a bat.

[LAUGHING]

TF: And a bat, and a dog as well.

CO: Tadgh, Derry, it's great to speak with you. Thank you.

TF & DF: OK. Thank you very much.

CO: And good night to you both.

That was Tadgh and Derry Fleming in Ballymacelligott, Ireland, and if you'd like to see some photographs of this lovely family, or the video of the bat on the loose, and the dog, and the mom, and everything. It's on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. And later on in the program we do have a couple of stories you shared about your own bat encounters.

Back To Top »

Part 2: Northern Manitoba community evacuation march, whale strandings

Northern Manitoba community evacuation march

Guest: David Harper

JD: They were forced out of their homes and out of their community after a wild fire threatened their northern Manitoba town, or community. But the residents of Garden Hill First Nation say that their accommodations in Winnipeg are dismal, and they are making people sick. Since last week, hundreds of people have been living at two relief centres, on cots with no privacy, bad heating, and inadequate bathing facilities. Today, many are marching to demand better accommodations. David Harper is a former Manitoba Grand Chief, who organized today's march. We reached Mr. Harper in Winnipeg.

CO: Mr. Harper, how many people are out there marching with you right now?

DAVID HARPER: I would say, right in front, there’s a group right in front of us, probably about 300 people in front of us right now, that are marching to the legislature. The leadership is up ahead of us. We're monitoring on the back here, making sure everybody's safe — the chairman and the elders.

CO: And you're coming from — the people are coming from these two shelters where they are staying — can you describe the conditions in which people from Garden Hill First Nation are living right now?

DH: Well the reason for this walk is because the conditions that people — especially these children are facing. We just got calls from elders of children stating saying that it's totally unacceptable conditions now because I don't know why they're not putting them up in hotel rooms, but that is why the Chief has called for, asked for the province to call for a state of emergency because these people are contracting viruses, colds — especially the children.

CO: Can you describe the two places they're in — what are the buildings in which they're being housed?

DH: Right now it’s the convention center in Winnipeg that is housing about 515 people that are from Garden Hill and Leila Soccer Centre is holding about 574 people from Garden Hill. That’s currently where we’re at. And this is why the Chief has called for this walk to create an awareness that these people need a place too — where they could settle in comfortably, as much as they can. Because a lot of kids that are — and especially the elderly — they need privacy to use washroom facilities, there's no showers at the a convention centre, but there are six stalls available for people — six hundred people — in the soccer facility, which is totally unacceptable.

CO: And you mentioned the different health issues. I understand there's already a diagnosed case of mumps among the children.

DH: Yeah, that's one that's only one case of, I mean, people that I have, that have children are contracting colds from one to another, because apparently there's no heating in that particular place — especially at the soccer field. And at the same time, people are not allowed to bring their drinks, or water, or even to the children. They can't even bottle feed right on the soccer field, because apparently the soccer field is very sensitive, and they don't want to allow the soccer field you to get wet.

CO: When you described is the soccer stadium — So is it, what kind of floor is there, what, what are they actually sleeping and sitting on?

DH: They have artificial ground, artificial ground, and then they put in plywood there before evacuees got there.

CO: So there’s plywood on top of artificial turf — there's a roof over their head I presume?

DH: Yes, a roof over their heads but there's no heat. The place is not — there's no heater in that place.

CO: And everyone is sleeping on cots?

DH: And everyone is sleeping on cots, even though — and I just, we just got a text just now with a mother who has six kids, one of those children — eight-month-old baby — went for a surgery about a year ago and she's having now, the baby's having problems with blood pressure. So he needs to be stabilized somewhere in a room where it’s more comfortable.

CO: All these people have been airlifted — they were evacuated out of an area with these wildfires and the smoke they were dealing with — so what have you heard from Manitoba government, as to what they're going to do in order to get them to find better accommodations for these people?

DH: Well, right now what we've heard is that there's no there's not going to be no state of emergency. And the other thing is that we haven't had any availability on rooms yet. But what these people are doing the ones that are marching to, as they are currently marching to the grounds of the legislature, they are willing to camp there until they can be placed in hotel rooms.

CO: The Premier of Manitoba, Brian Pallister says he will not declare a state of emergency. He says everyone is is doing the best they can. And the presumption is, is that when you have an evacuation like this, it's typical to be in not very comfortable, temporary shelter. So what do you say to them?

DH: Well, we've got to move faster than that. I mean, we're, we're, we're Manitoban. It's like any other community and this is what we're calling for it is something a little bit more comfortable. I mean, it's not by choice that these people are here, it's not by choice that they have to flee the smoke and the conditions that took place up there because the thing is, that now that if, even if today if they were ready to move back today. We've got to make sure that the water is in good condition, and a lot of those people came from there have septic tanks, and you know, they haven't been utilized, they haven’t been used — you still got to clean those things — I mean those are health hazards that you've got to look at. There is a lot of things that we have to be put into consideration before — you can’t just drop them off at home and think that everything's going to be fine, no, water is going to be another issue.

CO: Well, we'll leave it there. We'll be following this story. Mr. Harper, I appreciate you speaking with us from the march today.

DH: Thank you so much.

JD: David Harper is a former Manitoba Grand Chief. We reached him in Winnipeg.

[Music: Ambient Guitar]

US senator on Facebook election findings

JD: Facebook met with U.S. congressional investigators this week to talk about so-called, “troll farms,” and possible Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. And in those meetings Facebook disclosed that it had sold approximately $100 000 worth of political advertising space to phony accounts and pages in the lead up to that election. And according to Facebook's chief security officer those phony accounts and pages were likely operated out of Russia. Now they didn't advocate for a particular candidate, but the ads did appear to amplify quote, “divisive social and political messages across the ideological spectrum, touching on topics from LGBT matters, to race issues, to immigration, to gun rights,” unquote. Mark Warner is the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Here's what he had to say about the disclosure on CNN.

SOUNDCLIP

MARK WARNER: Well, for months I've been wondering — about Facebook, Twitter — how much were they used by some of the Russian trolls. We've asked these questions, We've got a preliminary answer today, I think maybe we saw the tip of the iceberg, where Facebook acknowledged that they found about $100 000 of Russian placed ads and a number of pages that they will subsequently, in groups, that they will take down. I think that's a good first step but it really pales in comparison to the fact that before the French elections Facebook took down 50 000 accounts that had one tie or another to misinformation and disinformation. So I think Facebook is learning along the way. I think it really raises a series of questions though, about a number of social media firms — and we've got to talk to Twitter as well — about making clear about public disclosure. I think the public needs to know what kind of misinformation and disinformation might be appearing on their Facebook news feed or their Twitter news feed.

REPORTER: you think this is the tip of the iceberg — are you referring to overall social media — or you think Facebook could be finding a whole lot more money that came from Russian trolls trying to influence the election?

MW: Again, this was a staff interview today, I've got a lot more questions to ask. I believe they this is a fairly narrow focus, they discovered one of these internet troll farms that was based in St. Petersburg. There have been reports that there were many, many more. And again, it is as you kind of broaden the scope of this kind of inquiry, you may find more evidence. You know, I'm happy that Facebook came in, I've got more questions, I've got questions for Twitter, and this is an area that's going to require a lot more examination.

JD: Senator Mark Warner is the top Democrat on the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee. He was speaking about Facebook's disclosure that the company sold ad space to so-called Russian, “troll farms” in the lead up to the 2016 U.S. election.

[Music: Guitar Plucks]

Whale Strandings

Guest: Dr. Klaus Vanselow

JD: They were trapped, lost, and stuck on the shores of several European beaches in early 2016. And ever since researchers have been puzzled as to why 29 sperm whales were left stranded in the North Sea. At first the assumption was that climate change and poisoning were to blame. But autopsies showed that the animals were mainly well-fed, young and disease free. Well now researchers at the University of Kiel have a new theory. They are arguing that large solar storms, responsible for the Northern Lights, may have played a role in the whale strandings. Dr. Klaus Vanselow is a physicist at the University of Kiel, and we reached him in Kiel, Germany.

CO: Mr. Vanselow, why do you think that solar storms might have been responsible for stranding those sperm whales?

DOCTOR KLAUS VANSELOW: Yes, I think that they sometimes might be responsible for our sperm whale drownings because in the past, or in the beginning of 2016, when 29 sperm whales drowned in the North Sea, 10 to 20 days before that we had some solar storms, of the duration of 18 hours and 28 hours. And the environment of the surroundings of the sperm whales was in the same range as the disruptions by the solar storms.

CO: We're talking about 29 sperm whales who became stranded and died in the North Sea area — so did you look at all of them?

KV: No, I see only that stranded on the German coast, but I know from the others, and I know that 22 of them were dissected by biologists and medical persons, and they found no reason for dying or for the stranding. They had plastic in their stomach, they had other things, but nothing of it was lethal. And so there was no reason, in this way, why they have stranded or beached, and the publication from that scientists say that they only swim the wrong way. And I think that's not enough. And so I look for the storms in the time before the stranding and found two storms. So that the dimensions was in the same range as to do magnetic anomalies in the area. I think they swam in the wrong direction and I correlated the solar storm intensity with the shifts in the in the magnetic map. And then I found that up to 400, or around about 400 kilometre north south shift, is possible during the storm.

CO: What is it about these solar storms that could do that to the sperm whales?

KV: Yes, I think in the open ocean they have not many possibilities to navigate. They have the ground, the depth, they have astronomical parameters, like the sun and stars. And I think also they have the magnetic field itself, and they have magnetic anomalies to navigate — and anomalies mainly in the open sea in the Atlantic. And you can navigate by them, I think, other animals do the same. And in mink whales they found cryptochromes, that are small molecules that can detect magnetic fields. And so I think sperm whales do the same. And then they have been a good navigation system, but even this can fail, especially if there are storms, and they do not know enough about solar storms, because all the males stranded were young, bachelor bulls. And I think that not so long on migration routes, and so they have really no influence by solar storms. They only learn to navigate I think by magnetic field and geomagnetic anomalies.

CO: Now there the other theories that exist for why these whales stranded at this period of time. You mentioned that they had food in their stomachs — that they were not starving, they were getting food. But some say that the climate change may have played a role. There are theories that environmental pollution may have been the cause. You mentioned the plastics some of the plastic in their stomachs. There are also theories that they were confused because of shipping traffic that was diverting them. So have you dismissed all of those theories?

KV: I think this other aspect you name can give stress to the animals, and if they have stress, stress the same as for us, if you are sitting in a car and looking on a map on the navigation system, and so we do not realize if the map change or shifts to another region, and I think that could be the same for the sperm whales.

CO: How has your theory been received by the scientific community — your theory about these whales?

KV: Yes I think it's a new idea, and so, many people say, for that time, they do not find the magnetic sense in the whales — it's not correct to do it. But I think it needs time to, to have hard facts to prove it. I know that the NASA actually has a program to prove all strandings with all solar storms and we will see what happens there — whether they have hard facts then. For me it's only I can correlate the sun and the stranding, and found there is a correlation. And so for me the animal is a black chamber in Toronto. And so I think it's very realistic that stranding will happen.

CO: Mr. Vanselow I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

KV: Yes. OK. Have a nice day.

JD: Klaus Vanselow is a physicist with the University of Kiel. And we reached him in Kiel, Germany.

[Music: Ambient Bass]

Listener Response: bat story

JD: Earlier on in the program you might have heard Carol's conversation with the Tadgh Fleming and his dad, Derry. They found a bat earlier this week, in their house in County Kerry, Ireland and the video of the elder Mr. Fleming, of Derry, trying to catch a bat with a towel — at one point while standing on a chair, in his son's shorts and socks — has since been viewed more than two million times. When we first played some clips of that video on the program yesterday we asked you to send in some of your own stories — there was no shortage. Here are a couple of the ones we received.

CO: Gail Ritchie in Elmont Ontario e-mailed us with a story from decades ago, when a bat flew down her chimney then into her parents’ bedroom. Ms Ritchie wrote, “Dad quickly through the bed sheet over mum's head and body, and guided her out the bedroom door, shutting it quickly after her. He did not realise he had trapped the trailing sheet on his side of the door, leaving mum standing in the hall tightly bound and trapped in a bed sheet. By this time we are all awake, as my sister and I struggled to free our panicked mother without daring to open the bedroom, door Dad succeeded in catching the bat with a hat from his closet shelf.

JD: Mummy, in more than one sense of the word. Patti Jarvis in Toronto called to tell us about one summer one about got stuck in her fan.

SOUNDCLIP

PATTI JARVIS: Here's part of that story as I got closer to the, sort of, grid of the side of the fan. This bat poked it’s little head out, and it’s little hooky thing, and I screamed and it went back in the fan, and then it climbed out the other side, and I thought. “OK all I have to do is hit the fan, and I get my shoe or my slipper and knock it out the window.” Which of course, I did, only to discover that, of course, I had forgotten there was a screen on the window. No idea, how it got in, and it is now flying around my room. I panicked — I didn't know what to do. I ran out of the room and shut the door. I'm standing in front of the room where the light is on in my bedroom, I'm in my dark living room, and the bat, of course, wants to go to the dark. So It comes out from underneath the door flies right at me. I'm panicking, I grab my phone, because at that time I didn't have a cell phone I just had a landline, I grabbed it I took it to the bedroom shut the door. I crammed a cloth under the crack in the door and I called the police.

JD: Ms. Jarvis then said the police politely laughed at her and told her to call a wildlife retrieval group.

[LAUGHTER]

CO: Thanks to everyone who contacted us. I know there are more stories that is there and as always you can reach us by email at aih@cbc.ca or call us at 416 205 5687.

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Part 3: Gaspé mayor, robot tax

Kate Millet obit

JD: Unless we go to the very centre of the sexual politic and it's sick, delirium of power and violence, all our efforts at liberation will only land us again, in the same primordial stews. Those were the words of Kate Millet in her groundbreaking bestseller Sexual Politics the second-wave feminist pioneer died yesterday. She was 82 years old. Ms Millet developed the notion that the relationship between the sexes is political. She contended that men's power over women was a social construction — it was not a biological inevitability. In 1970 the New York Times called Sexual Politics quote, “the bible of women's liberation.” In 1979 Kate Millett traveled to Iran with Sophie Keir, a photo journalist who would later become her spouse. They were there to celebrate International Women's Day in the midst of the Iranian revolution. They were arrested and expelled from the country. They collaborated on a book about their experience called Going to Iran and our former host, Barbara Frum, spoke with Kate Millett during that visit to Iran. Here's part of that conversation from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

KATE MILLET: I went to Tehran because I was invited to speak at International Women’s Day ions Tehran. It was the first time it could ever be celebrated in this country. And I was invited by a group that I work with for seven years in the United States — we worked against the Shah and against the tortured political prisoners under the Shah. When my friends, who were Iranian students in exile, came back to Tehran, after the uprising, they decided that the first priority — now that the political prisoners had been freed — the first priority would be the rights of women, which were most in jeopardy of any civil rights in the country.

BARBARA FRUM: Ms. Millet given the fierceness of anti-American feeling in that country, right at the moment, are you running any risks?

KM: Yeah it’s dangerous as all get out. Today we were attacked, harassed — it's very, very dangerous. I can hardly explain to you how dangerous it is. And we have no protection from the government. They don't come up with the militia, which they promise us, so that the only way we can stay alive is because there are a beautiful bunch of men here, who make a chain around us, joining hands, and march with us, and these brothers and comrades keep us from the other men who are out to stone us, knife us — kill us. It was absurd, in a country so full og guns, that we depended only on ourselves, the wonderful men who surrounded us, today and joined hands and marched for six hours in the sun — it’s very, very hot here — and they had to march sideways. Have you ever tried that for about three or four miles — holding somebody elses hand? The men who defended us were unbelievably beautiful. As a feminist I have never seen men be such brothers.

JD: That was feminist activist Kate Millet speaking to Barbara Frum, from Tehran, Iran in March of 1979. Kip Millet died yesterday. She was 82 years old.

[Music: Ambient Chimes]

Gaspe mayor

Guest: François Boulé

JD: When a tiny village in Quebec passed a by law to protect its source of drinking water, it did not expect to get sued. Four years ago Ristigouche Sud-Est established a no-drill-zone around the village’s water source — then a company called Gastem came forward with a lawsuit. Gastem is a Montreal-based oil and gas exploration company. It says it has a right to explore in and around the village, so it is suing for $1 million. The mayor of the village is François Boulé and he is facing off against Gastem in Quebec Superior Court this week. We reached Mayor Boulé in New Carlisle, Gaspésie.

CO: Mayor Boulé your village has a population of, what, a 157 people, and you are squaring off against a big oil company in court — what's that like?

MAYOR FRANCOIS BOULE: Well, it was intimidating at first, four years ago, but today as we sit in court I think it's a sigh of relief, finally and we can, we can debate in front of the judge.

CO: Can you explain why this oil company — Gastem — why it's suing your village?

FB: Well it's not still in the village anymore, it basically left the premises quite a while back just as a reminder of going back into history. We adopted — the previous council, I’m Mayor today but four years ago, the previous council — had adopted it by law to protect drinking water, establishing distances between the drilling site and the sources of drinking water for its residents. And on September of that same year serve we received the actual court notice — we were

CO: But they’re pursuing it and they're pursuing a million dollars from your town for the decision you made. Can you tell us what it is — while you weren't there then — but what was, what is it that they are suing your town about?

FB: What they're claiming is that the municipal council at the time, had acted in bad faith and adopted this water, water protection bylaw specifically, and directly aimed at preventing them from undertaking their activities. They could certainly have asked the courts to declare the bylaw inoperative or declare it null — they preferred to just submit a lawsuit.

CO: OK. And describe please what was the bylaw that they took issue with?

FB: The bylaw basically establishes this distances between drilling operations or any activities that could be introducing into the subsoil toxic substances, that have a risk of contaminating drinking, the drinking table, the drinking water table, rivers and the water within the vicinity of residences. So that's what they were basically contesting. Now they claim that the bylaw basically brought a stop to their, to their operations and continuing activities as planned, and they decided to submit their lawsuit.

CO: So this, the bylaw would restrict any kind of drilling operations like this to a limit of two kilometres away from the source of your village's drinking water. But they did have a permit because the province allows for only a 500 metre protection area — is that right?

FB: Well, listen, at the time of this event there was no law in Quebec, provincial law in Quebec protecting drinking water. When we adopted our bylaw we had two kilometres minimum distance between one artesian well, providing water to 20 people or less, you to be two kilometers away. Now one of the first responsibilities of any Municipal Council of Canada is to ensure a quality supply of drinking water to its citizens. It's one of, it's one of the first items on your on your to-do list .

CO: You're fighting a very large corporation, with deep pockets, you're a very small village without much money. So how are you going to do it — it’s already costing you tens-of-thousands of dollars in legal fees?

FB: That's right, we launched this crowdsourcing campaign to amass, or collect sufficient funds to be able to allow us to defend ourselves to the end of this trial. We've pretty well, with the great generosity of not only Quebeckers, but many Canadians outside the province of Quebec. We've received contributions, as well as to over 120 municipalities, for whom this court case is important — the jurisprudence that's going to come out of this court case, the decision that is — is where we're close to well over $280 000. We're close to our or are targeted budget of $320 000. The other financial challenge is if we lose and are condemned to pay $1 000 000, well, that's going to be another challenge and I don't think our municipality has the means to cover that kind of amount. So technically we're talking, you know, technically, bankrupt doesn't really exist in Canada, it's not a possibility, but it's never happened before, so we’ll see.

CO: Also if you lose and you have to pay a million dollars — more significant perhaps for those municipalities that are helping you — is that they need this precedent, or they would like to see a precedent for being able to protect aquifers from this kind of drilling — is that right?

FB: Yes, you're absolutely right. Why I wrote a letter a couple of months ago to municipalities in Quebec, stating to them that our court battle is much more than a Ristigouche against Gastem lawsuit. It is the right for municipalities to adopt a bylaw without the risk of being sued for doing so — that's the big issue. Any elected official in this country understands what I'm saying right now, and every citizen should should heed to this, that, you know, municipal governments are the first level of government representing citizens across this country, and when they adopt the bylaw to protect the environment, or to ensure a quality of life, the right to be able to adopt a bylaw without the fear of being sued because it disturbed, or someone, an entity, a corporation is not pleased with the bylaw — that's what's at stake.

CO: We will leave it there, we'll be following this case Mayor Boulé I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

FB: Thank you.

JD: Francois Boulé is the Mayor of Ristigouche Sud-Est, in Quebec’s Gaspé region. We reached him in New Carlisle, Gaspésie.

[Music: Ambient Trance]

BC MLA sculpture

Guest: Laurie Throness

JD: Laurie Throness is a Liberal MLA in British Columbia. And recently he went online to share some of his ideas for his home province. Ideas that he hoped the next provincial Liberal leader would adopt — sixty five ideas in particular, or to be exact, one of which is grabbing the attention of some Canadians. Mr. Throness spoke to Rick Cluff, host of CBC Vancouver's Early Edition, about his rock solid idea for improving tourism in the province — by sculpting parts of the B.C. mountains.

SOUNDCLIP

LAURE THRONESS: I thought as an example of a suggestion to build, would be a pair of upraised cupped hands.

RICK CLUFF: So you got the cupped hand look I can see that.

LT: And you can drive a couple of dozen tourist buses under these hands — they'd be visible for kilometres — and it would draw millions of visitors and every observer would interpret that piece of art according to their own context. One might see it as hands raised in prayer, another might see it his hands lifted to help the poor, Another might see it, see a refugee, as hands outstretched in a cry for help. So it would be interpreted by the observer.

RC: Where do you want to do this?

LT: I think it’d probably be where we would want to draw millions of tourists, and that would likely be in the interior or in the B.C.’s north where we need that kind of activity.

RC: Do you have a particular mountain in mind?

LT: I don't, no. There would have to be expressions of interest, there would have to be a long consultation process. Everybody would light their hair on fire for a couple of years, and then, and then we'd come to a decision, and something would be built that would last for generations, and would put B.C. on the global map, just like other things we've done.

RC: You're serious about this — you want to build a Mt. Rushmore-like edifice, somewhere in B.C.?

LT: I think it would be a great idea. I think it would be beautiful. It would be, it would be a world first.

JD: OK so that was B.C. Liberal MLA Laurie Throness speaking to CBC Vancouver's Rick Cluff about his idea to improve tourism in the province.

[Music: Ambient]

Florida sheriff

JD: In preparation for the landing of hurricane Irma, public officials in Florida are warning residents to take shelter. But a message from one local sheriff was not so much a warning, as kind of more of a threat. Polk County is just east of Tampa and the sheriff there Grady Judd tweeted this yesterday quote, “If you go to a shelter for Irma be advised sworn law enforcement officers will be at every shelter checking IDs. If you have a warrant will gladly escort you to the safe and secure shelter called the Polk County Jail,” unquote. So here is Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd, elaborating on that tweet on Fox and Friends.

SOUNDCLIP

SHERIFF GRADY JUDD: Well, first off I want to point out this is a very dangerous storm and we're communicating with people so that everyone can be safe, and there will be no ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) checks, zero. We're not checking for documented or undocumented immigrants. Everyone that's here is welcome at our shelter — unless you're a sexual predator or a child offender — then we're not going to have you here.

PETE HEGSETH: Well Sheriff the ACLU in Florida sees this a little bit differently and they had this to say about your stance. They said, “most people with outstanding warrants are dealing with low level or nonviolent offenses and pose no risk to others in a shelter. What do you say to the ACLU on that?

GJ: Well, I'll tell you all they see you grab all those people up and take them home with you, because of the reality of it is a guy who had an outstanding warrant here last week, tried to kill five people, and actually stabbed his aunt to death, and stabbed as his father 23 times — that was an outstanding warrant. If that were a week later would you want him in the shelter next to you. We don't arrest people for simple traffic offenses — ACLU is just blustering like they normally do. The reality of it is we arrest people on warrants where ever we find them, and shelters are an exception to that. So if we see you in a storm, out of a storm, at a shelter, at a grocery store, walking down the street, or at your own home, and you have an outstanding criminal warrant, you'll go to jail. We were trying to give all of those people a five-day heads up, so that they could find safe shelter as well — either with us at the county jail, or someplace else if they don't want to come to jail.

JD: That was Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd speaking to host Pete Hegseth on Fox and Friends.

[Music: Ambient Bass]

Robot tax

Guest: Jane Kim

JD: According to a recent study by PricewaterhouseCoopers the United States could lose close to 40 per cent of its jobs to automation by 2030 — 40 per cent. But U.S. lawmaker Jane Kim believes she has an idea that can help human workers who would be affected — she is pushing for a tax on robots. Ms. Kim is a city councillor or city supervisor, rather, in San Francisco, and that is where we reached her.

CO: Ms. Kim how do you go about taxing a robot?

SUPERVISOR JANE KIM: Well, what we are looking at is extending a payroll tax that we already have on jobs performed by humans, and extending them to jobs then performed by robots, algorithms and automation. What we are concerned with is — I already represent a city with the largest growing income gap in the country — reflective of what we're seeing throughout the United States. And leading experts are predicting that we're going to have an accelerated rate of robots and automation replacing humans that normally perform those jobs.

CO: Why do you think that a tax on robots might slow that down?

JK: Well, actually I'm not trying to slow down automation or robots. What I'm trying to do is make sure that we are preparing workers for the future of work in this country by creating a revenue fund that can help re-educate, and retrain. But also turn jobs that are currently, frankly, poverty jobs in this country, that are very difficult to automate, like child care workers, health care workers for seniors, and that are primarily funded actually through public funding, and help make those real living-wage middle-class jobs.

CO: Do you think that if there were a tax on robots that revenue stream would then go in order to pay people a better living wage for the jobs you've mentioned?

JK: So it would be a dedicated tax. So it would, it would be a tax code either go through the state legislature or through the state ballot measure process, that would raise revenues specifically to address job displacement, which occurs through automation and through robots.

CO: You work in a city that is home to Silicon Valley, and the belief is that there are many, many jobs that are created because of, of manufacturing technology, or working in technology, that anything that might slow that down or, or make it develop at a less fast rate might actually affect the jobs in that technology sector. What do you say to that?

JK: Well, as I said before I'm not trying to slow down automation. I'm just trying to make sure that we are preparing our communities and our country for a future where work will be different. It's true automation will generate and create different types of jobs. But I think, frankly, it would be a mistake to think that folks that currently perform jobs that are getting automated would suddenly become engineers and systems administrators. That's why we need to have a fund and program to make sure that we're preparing workers for the new jobs that we are creating. San Francisco is certainly a beneficiary of the tech disruption and revolution that we are seeing today. And I think it makes sense for San Francisco to be leading in the policies that address the tech destruction and revolution as well.

CO: Isn't the history of the labour market the same though. I mean, that technology takes over tasks and jobs and the job market changes right. I mean, whether it's appliances, or computers that as you — I mean, there was once a time when a man delivered ice door to door, and now there's an industry manufacturing refrigerators and employs lots of people. So isn't that the way that the job market works — it evolves?

JK: Absolutely, which is why we're not trying to stop automation. In fact, I think that it's mostly a positive thing. Automation will take away menial tasks, it could save lives, it could help us fight climate change. But there is going to be a negative impact from automation, which is that certain sectors of Americans are going to lose their jobs, and they're going have a very difficult time, you know, adjusting to the new economy. And that's why I think it's important for the very tech companies that are benefiting from automation, and frankly, we're going to see a further concentration of wealth amongst those who actually own the robots and automation, to share some of this wealth back with the workers that they are displacing and help them get new jobs and retrain and re-educate.

CO: But aren’t There are other ways of doing that? I mean, I understand what you're saying about redistribution of wealth, but there have been calls for this for, for so long, in so many places, including in Canada, if there is, if there's resistance to that already, why do you think it's possible to go this route and actually start seeing that income gap change because of this particular kind of tax?

JK: It is true. Automation has been occurring over the last 150 years within our economy. But what leading experts are saying from MIT, to Oxford McKinsey, and PricewaterhouseCooper, what we're about to see is an incredibly accelerated rate of automation of tasks and jobs over the next 10 to 15 years. You know, some experts are saying up to 47 per cent of jobs could be lost to automation — entire industries. And I think that it's incredibly important to prepare for that if we know that in advance. If we knew before the Great Depression and before the Great Recession that we were going to lose jobs — wouldn't we prepare for it? And yet experts are now saying that we're going to lose as many jobs as the Great Recession and Great Depression combined — due to automation.

CO: What kind of reception was your idea had so far, have you been able to sell it to the government?

JK: Well, that's part of the work that's why we initiated the jobs for the future fund — is because we want the state legislature to take up this very proposal. You know, frankly, we think that this is one of the most important issues over the next 10 to 15 years, and not enough people are talking about it. And so this is to spark the discussion and to put ideas out there. The robot cut taxes only one of many ideas that we could, that we could utilize to help address automation and job displacement in the future. But as I mentioned, I'm a representative in the city with the fastest growing income gap in the country. We are an incredibly wealthy city, but yet we also have some of the poorest residents as well. The district I represent, for example, I represent the poorest residents of San Francisco, and the wealthiest zip code. And I think it's really incumbent upon policy-makers to really think about what it means to grow and strengthen our shrinking middle class.

CO: We will leave it there some — very provocative ideas. Ms. Kim thank you.

JK: Thank you so much for having me.

Jane Kim is a city supervisor in San Francisco, that's where we reached her. And if you'd like to find out a little more on this story go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. And if you are interested in reading more about how automation and robots are changing the workplace check out CBC Radio's Work Shift newsletter, and you can subscribe to that by visiting www.cbc.ca/workshift.

[Music: Whimsical Woodwinds]

Sneeze votes

JD: OK guys can I just get a final vote on it? Who. Who wants pizza?

[SNEEZING]

JD: Ok I counted nine in there. Alan I didn't hear I didn't hear you chime in. You want pizza?

[SNEEZING]

JD: OK good. That's a quorum.

JD: Now, if that sounded unusual I understand voting by sneeze is not as common as it was in the days of snuff. In fact, it seemed to have vanished entirely until researchers started paying closer attention to the behavior of African wild dogs in Botswana. They were monitoring how the dogs marked their territory when they noticed something odd, in the words of study co-author Rena Walker of the Botswana Predator Conservation Trust quote, “We all started questioning, ‘why are these dogs sneezing so much?’” Well, all that wild dog sneezing was taking place during what were called ‘rallies,’ when the dogs all get up from their naps and greet each other, and then they all head out hunting — or they all go back to sleep. It seemed like either scenario resulted from a group decision — but how was that decision reached? It turns out, through sneezing, if one of the dominant dogs sneezed and three less-cool dogs sneezed afterward, that was it — off they all went on a hunt. If one of the less-cool dogs sneezed first, as many as 10 fellow dogs would have to sneeze for the hunting motion to pass. But if in either scenario the first sneeze didn't elicit enough support of follow up sneezes, it was back to the shade for more group naptime. Now when you hear the phrase, “a pack of wild dogs” you usually don't think of a complex organization operating on democratic principles. So I think we can agree that this study is a pretty big deal —I mean we can, right? Alan.

[SNEEZING]

JD: Alan.

[SNEEZING]

JD: Yes, the motion is carried.

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September 7, 2017 episode transcript

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