Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2016

The AIH Transcript for August 15, 2017

Hosts: Mike Finerty and Robert Doane

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

MIKE FINERTY: Hello, I'm Mike Finerty.

ROBERT DOAN: Good evening, I'm Robert Doane. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

RD: Tonight:

MF: When The Rebel’s revolting, revolt against The Rebel. Brian Lilley tells us he's leaving the right-wing media outlet over its coverage of the racist rally in Charlottesville, saying it's become “toxic” to his journalism.

RD: Driven by hate. A 20-year-old man is charged with second-degree murder for driving the car that killed 32-year-old Heather Heyer, and his social studies teacher tells us his former student was a devoted admirer of Adolph Hitler.

MF: Leader of the pack. The editor of Black Girls Ride Magazine remembers her friend Joi “SJ” Harris, the trailblazing African-American female motorcycle racer who died yesterday while performing a stunt on a movie set in Vancouver.

RD: Bringing pressure to bear. British Columbia's new NDP government falls through on a campaign promise to ban trophy hunting of grizzly bears, to the consternation of hunting guides in the province.

MF: Looking at the world through froze-colored glasses. A third-year geology student sees what practicing scientists hadn’t, and his keen eyes lead to the discovery of dozens of volcanoes under an Antarctic ice sheet.

RD: And…. sometimes the bad guys wear the white hats. A small Spanish town saw tourism skyrocket after it was painted blue to promote a Smurfs movie, but after the Smurfs people ordered it to de-Smurf, it's in deep Smurf. As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that guesses anything that can Smurf wrong will Smurf wrong: It's Smurphy's Law.

[Music: Theme]

Back To Top »

Part 1: Brian Lilley leaves The Rebel, SJ Harris obit, volcano discovery

Brian Lilley leaves The Rebel

Guest: Brian Lilley

RD: The mutiny against The Rebel continues. Yesterday, a candidate for the leadership of Alberta’s United Conservatives told us that the Canadian media outlet’s coverage out of Charlottesville served as a platform for white supremacists. Doug Schweitzer called on Conservative politicians to sever ties with The Rebel. Then federal Conservative MP Michael Chong announced that he'd be doing exactly that. And it isn't just the politicians who are jumping ship. Last night, columnist, radio host and rebel co-founder Brian Lilley announced his own departure via Facebook. And we reached Brian Lilley in Ottawa.

MF: Brian Lilley, hello.

BRIAN LILLEY: Hello.

MF: In the post that you wrote about why you decided to leave The Rebel. You say that it's suffering from a lack of editorial and behavioral judgment that left unchecked will destroy it and those around it. What do you mean by that?

BL: Well, I think that The Rebel is an important voice. I believe in more voices not less in the media. Well, at least it could be an important voice. But editorial judgment that sees people go as activists journalists to a “Unite The Right” rally that is obviously just a front for a white supremacist rally left me concerned. I'd had concerns over some time, but to see folks down there saying some of the things that were said on top of you know the general drifting apart in terms of orientation and goals. That was just the last straw for me and I said no.

MF: Did it cross a line in your view where it began the commentary to show sympathy for white supremacy?

BL: Yeah. Whether that was on purpose or if they didn't know, I have not seen all of the footage. But I've seen enough and enough with the commentary to say OK, I can’t be a part of that. We’re all responsible for our own personal reputation, our own brand if you will. And to all of us in the public eye I sometimes have to practice hygiene.

MF: And by that are you saying that your brand would be tainted by staying with The Rebel?

BL: You know I still host a nightly talk show on radio station in Ottawa, 580 CFRA. I write columns for Sun Media and elsewhere. I have to think of the bigger picture. I was essentially by the end a freelancer with The Rebel that would do one video a day. I know the title said co-founder, but we'd had a split on that about a year or so ago. It really was time to go. I mean there'd been a drift for a while and a difference in focus. I've been describing it today as when you form a band with your buddies in high school and you just want to play rock and roll. You want to play three chords and the truth. Well, I want to keep playing rock n roll three chords and the truth. But they've decided they want to play polka. I don't want to play in a polka band.

MF: I'm curious about the timing because earlier the year, I mean you're of course aware of the Gavin McInnes issue where he went to Israel and he filmed a rant that I think went up on the website at first under the title “10 Things I Hate About Jews and then 10 Things I Hate About Israelis”. Why wasn't that the line that was crossed at the time?

BL: We were just getting assurances from people, we were fixing things, we were watching. Well, you know I'm sorry the lines keep getting crossed. I have to say no at a certain point. You know I've also had people say to me because I say in my Facebook post that they need to right their ship and I've been asked why won't you stay and help right the ship? Well, the short answer is because I can't. There have been too many lines crossed. I'm not the one that is in charge of editorial direction. I'm not the one in charge of hiring and firing. It's just time to go. Should I have gone earlier? Maybe, but I've decided to go now.

MF: How is that Ezra Levant, who's in charge over at The Rebel can allow as a Jew these sorts of things to appear on the site.

BL: Well, one, I don't know. But two, some of the worst things that I saw did not appear on The Rebel itself from this past weekend. They appeared elsewhere in live streams and interviews with others and comments made not at The Rebel, but still by people associated with The Rebel. And the “10 Things I Hate About Jews And Israelis video”. I still don't understand that one or even some others that have gone up. And that's why I say that right now, I think they suffer from a lack of editorial and behavioral judgment and that leads to me not being able to be part of it. I think we started out with one vision and the vision is something else completely now. The vision previously had been continuing on the legacy of Sun News. Continuing to hold the government's feet to the fire, whether it was Stephen Harper when we started. Or eventually, Justin Trudeau and that just doesn't feel like that's the goal anymore.

MF: Did you have any of these conversations with Ezra Levant?

BL: I don't have an awful lot of conversations with Ezra Levant and haven't for some time.

MF: So these doubts you had and the concerns. To what extent did you express them to anyone having to do with The Rebel?

BL: Well, I expressed things in the past. And as I say, lines kept being crossed.

MF: Yeah. And you said you were concerned about it tainting your brand. How close are they to the line where, The Rebel that is, where they become “toxic”?

BL: I think they're pretty darn close right now.

MF: And toxic to whom?

BL: Well look, I figured Nazis are toxic to everyone. A friend of mine in the media, who now works for a different network, used to always say as an Anglo-Canadian journalist, I'm allowed to have one bias and that is that I don't like separatists. But other than that I can't have any political bias. Well, I think we can all have the bias that we don't like Nazis. And sympathetic coverage or comments that's not something I can abide by. We should all be able to say no to that.

MF: How is the reaction playing out for you? Are you are you getting pats on the back? Are you getting blowback? What's it like?

BL: A bit of both, but overwhelmingly positive.

MF: I think I saw a comment from you that you were concerned about being referred to as a “cuck”?

BL: Oh, it's a great term isn't it?

MF: Well, you know what? I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't heard of it until today. What does it mean?

BL: I'm not sure this is exactly family-friendly radio anymore, but it is an insult that has made its way into the political terminology. It's a Cuckservative and it comes from the term of a cuckold — a cuckolded husband — someone who watches as their wife is made love to by somebody else and doesn't mind it. And this has become a way to for the alt-right — the far-right — to insult people that are not conservative enough. I've had federal cabinet ministers in the Harper government tell me Brian, you are way too conservative and I doubt that I would find too many liberals that would disagree with that. But for saying I won't stand with this, that's what some are calling me.

MF: Any word from Ezra Levant? He has commented on your leaving, hasn’t he?

BL: Yep, we have spoken.

MF: What did you say?

BL: I’ll leave that between us at the moment.

MF Was it confrontational?

BL: It started out one way and finished another. And I think you'll be able to guess.

MF: That doesn't sound like it ended too well?

BL: No.

MF: Brian Lilley, thank you very much for speaking to us.

BL: Thank you.

RD: Brian Lilley is a columnist and broadcaster, who has just left The Rebel. The media site he helped to create. We spoke to Mr. Lilley earlier today in Ottawa. And as we go to air, Mr. Lilley’s decision has been praised by two Conservative MPs, Michel Rempel and Lisa Raitt.

[Music: Jazz]

Trump presser

RD: U.S. President Donald Trump is under fire again for his response to the violence in Charlottesville. Yesterday, the president belatedly decried the actions of neo-Nazis and white supremacists specifically. But at a press conference today, he once again blamed, quote, “both sides”.

SOUNDCLIP

DONALD TRUMP: You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I'll say it right now.

[Sound: Much chatter in the background]

DT: You had a group that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.

REPORTER: Do you think that what you call the alt-left is the same as neo-nazis?

DT: I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups, but not all of those people were neo-Nazis believe me by any stretch. Those were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee. And you know if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you're not. But many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee, so I wonder is it George Washington next week and is it Thomas Jefferson the week after? You know you all really do have to ask yourself where does it stop? But they were there to protest… excuse me… you take a look the night before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E Lee. Infrastructure question, go ahead.

REPORTER: Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the Alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?

DT: I'm not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I'm saying is this: you had a group on one side and you had a group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and it was horrible and it was a horrible thing to watch. There was a group on this side; you can call them the left. You've just called them the left. That came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that's the way it is.

RD: U.S. President Donald Trump, answering questions from the press at Trump Tower today.

[Music: Ambient and sad music]

SJ Harris obit

Guest: Porsche Taylor

RD: Joi “SJ” Harris knew the risks. But that never stopped the motorcycle racer from pushing the boundaries of her sport, both on and off her bike. Ms. Harris was the first black female road racer in the United States licensed by the American Motorcycle Association a trailblazer in the biking community, Ms. Harris was known for encouraging more women and African-Americans to take up racing. On Monday, Joi “SJ” Harris died while performing a stunt on the set of “Deadpool 2” in Vancouver. Porshce Taylor was Ms. Harris's manager, and is the editor of Black Girls Ride Magazine. And we reached her in L.A.

MF: Porsche, hello.

PORSCHE TAYLOR: Hello.

MF: When was the last time you got a chance to speak to SJ?

PT: I got a chance to speak to SJ Saturday. We talked extensively about her time in Vancouver, she was having an awesome time on the film set and everyone was treating her incredibly and she was excited to be a part of the production.

MF: It was a big opportunity for her.

PT: Absolutely. This was the chance of a lifetime for her and she was ready and focused and raring to go.

MF: How often had she had a like a proper stunt woman job?

PT: This was as SJ's first stuntwoman job, but she was more than capable of doing any types of stunts. She's a professional road racer and has extensive experience.

MF: Was it something that she had been wanting to do?

PT: Yes. When approached with the opportunity, she was excited and ready to go and just head-over-heels. She was very, very, very happy to do this.

MF: And in a really big movie too.

PT: Yes, absolutely.

MF: How did you hear about the accident?

PT: I can't really speak to the accident right now. I'm just not in a place, so I'd rather not comment on details regarding the accident.

MF: Why did she want to get into stunt performing?

PT: She thought that it would be a great avenue for her to advance her career into a new direction. She loved being a road racer and was super excited about trailblazing in another direction. That’s what she was all about.

MF: Can you tell us a little bit about her path to road racing because she's quoted in your magazine, in 2015, saying, “I'm everything people never saw in this sport.”

PT: Absolutely. SJ began road racing when she took classes because she wanted to get to enhance her skill level on the streets of New York City. For her, whenever there was something she was interested in, she would always do a ton of research and learn everything she could about it. And once she got on the track, she fell in love with it. And she was surprised that there weren't very many women who were racing. And no women of colour, no African-American women in particular. And she was excited about being able to break some new ground in that way.

MF: Why weren't there?

PT: You know, I don't know why in particular there might not have been? I know that road racing itself is a sport that doesn't have very many folks in it of any colour. I know that it's expensive to be a road racer. SJ’s races were all self-funded. So she would work her day job and then save her money for track days and parts and everything that you would need to be a road racer. So it's not something that's super affordable to participate in. So you know I'm sure that that might be a deterrent for some.

MF: What did she like about it?

PT: She loved competing. SJ was super competitive on the track. And the thing about road racing is that it’s gender-neutral, so she would race with men as well as women. And often give as good as she got. And so it's her competitive spirit and always wanting to get better and to get her skillset better. You know that's a part of it. Speed is also a part of it. She loved speed. She loved to lean in the turns. And she loved the strategy of road racing.

MF: So she would beat the guys sometimes?

PT: Absolutely.

MF: I guess that can become pretty addictive to make that kind of statement?

PT: Well, I don't think it was about beating the guys as much of it was being the best racer. So it didn't matter if you were up against her, she wanted to win.

MF: And how important was it for her to be such a visible force in a sport that has been more of a white guys thing?

PT: Again, I think it was more about her being able to encourage women. For her, it was wanting to be inspirational to all women who rode. And she was always hosting clinics or hosting events where she would introduce women to track days and introduce them to being able to get a better skillset on the track. Riding on the track is a lot safer actually than riding on the streets because there's no oncoming traffic, there's no obstructions. And if you're going to ride at higher speeds she wanted to share that message because it was the safest place to do it.

MF: She did love the speed though, didn't she?

PT: I think she did. She loves speed. She loves strategy. She loved technical riding. She was very competitive.

MF: Yeah. I mean she did blog about the speed and how much she did love it and she seemed to know that that came with some risks.

PT: Yeah, absolutely. She was excited to be a racer and she knew that racing, stunting and all of those types of careers come with inherent dangers. But you know she's very proud of what she was able to accomplish and fearless.

MF: What was she like to hang out with?

PT: SJ was a beautiful, beautiful person. Beautiful spirit. She's got an infectious laugh, a bubbly personality and really to know her was to love her.

MF: What do you think her legacy is?

PT: I think her legacy is one of a trailblazer. One of an inspirational figure in motorsport, someone who inspired women to ride outside of their comfort zone.

MF: How do you plan to pay tribute to her?

PT: Right now, our focus has been on preparing her home going here in the States. So that's really where all of our energy is going. There have been folks who've contacted us that want to donate in her memory, so we'll be setting up rider scholarships events and rider scholarships in her name for women that want to learn how to ride and race on the track just to keep her legacy alive.

MF: There must be at least some solace in the fact that in her death she continues to inspire.

PT: Absolutely. I think the one thing that we can all hold on to is that SJ was living her dream and she died doing what she loved.

MF: Porche, thanks very much for speaking to us.

PT: Thank you so much for having me.

MF: Bye bye.

PT: Bye bye now.

RD: Porche Taylor is the editor of Black Girls Ride Magazine. She was Joi “SJ” Harris's manager. Ms. Harris died on Monday while performing a stunt on the set of “Deadpool 2” in Vancouver. She was 40. And we reached Porche Taylor in L.A. We have more of the story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Volcano discovery

Guest: Max Van Wyk de Vries

RD: When Max Van Wyk de Vries started noticing familiar patterns in Antarctic ice maps, he decided to mention it to other researchers at the University of Edinburgh. They listened. Fast-forward two years, and his ideas led to the discovery of over a hundred volcanoes under a Western Antarctican ice sheet, which is especially impressive because Mr. de Vries is still in school, doing his undergrad. We reached Max Van Wky de Vries in the French Alps.

MF: Max, hello.

MAX VAN WYK DE VRIES: Hello.

MF: This entire discovery — 91 volcanoes — all comes down to a hypothesis you had. How does that feel?

MVWDV: It feels quite surprising, to be honest. It feels amazing in its own way, but I'm still understanding what I actually discovered. When I two years ago started looking, I couldn't even have imagined it would have led to this.

MF: So how did you come up with the hypothesis?

MVWDV: So, basically, it was almost like a coincidence that I came across these volcanoes. I was looking at this data, which is basically a topographic map of the land underneath the Antarctic ice sheet. I was looking at it just because I had a course that was related to that. And I started noticing these landfalls that didn't quite seem to fit in.

MF: What prompted the interest in Antarctica in the first place?

MVWDV: So it's always just seemed a really, really cool place to me. And in every meaning of the word really because it is so far away from everything and it's so hard to get to, which means, at the same time, no one knows that much about it. It's one of the few areas around the world that we still have a lot of things to discover in there. There's still mountains that haven't been climbed or places that haven't been explored, which was something I found extremely exciting.

MF: So you have this hypothesis then that maybe underneath the ice there are volcanoes we'd never realized there were. But 91 of them?

MVWDV: Yeah. It was a big surprise. Well, I started finding these cones and I was like hmm… there seems to be a volcano under Antarctica. And then I came back to it later, I was just looking around and I was like hey, there's another one and another one! And then I started thinking maybe I should actually be more scientific about this and started developing a methodology of how to actually look for them. And that led to me finding well over 100, nearly 200 of them.

MF: And when you brought the first the hypothesis and then the data — your initial data — forward. How did the other researchers respond to it?

MVWDV: Well, at the start I was a little bit hesitant of it, to be honest. Because I was just a student, who was finishing up his first year and in my mind, it was first year students who discovered things like that. It was professors, who had been working on the same area for 10 years or something. So I was a little bit skeptical of what I was finding. But I was talking with glaciologists at just different seminars around the university. They have these research talks and I was talking to the people there and they were very interested in potential volcanoes, which convinced me that maybe I was on to something. Maybe this was of interest. And later, when I started working with Rob Bingham and Andy Hine, we started to realize that this might actually be a major discovery, not just not just a bit of a fluke.

MF: Was anyone doubting you?

MVWDV: It's natural for scientists to have questions about that sort of thing. If they don't doubt you then you should be suspicious of them in some way. So there were always people who had doubts. But then when you show them the evidence of them then they believe you, which is the way it works hopefully. Well, I had doubts at the start, to be honest. I was unsure of what I was finding. But when I actually looked into it further and when we started collecting more data and cross-checking them, I was confident and everyone we were showing it was confident. And now, once the paper’s published, it hasn't been a hugely controversial paper. It's not like scientists are doubtful that these volcanoes are there. It's been fairly well accepted.

MF: Why do you think it took you, who were you know, as you said, finishing up your studies and not someone who was a more seasoned expert to have found this?

MVWDV: I’m not sure if I have a good answer to that question necessarily? Maybe being someone who didn't know much about the area, who wasn’t entrenched in in a certain aspect of glaciological research. I was always able to think in a way that allowed me to see things that other people hadn't thought of looking for.

MF: What could all of this mean to now have 91 volcanoes, on top of the others that had already been identified, in Antarctica? What are the possible consequences?

MVWDV: There are a lot of questions about possible consequences because they're only newly discovered and researchers haven't really had a chance to look into what this means. Definitely there are consequences on the volcanoes being under the ice. If the ice starts to melt, this will reduce the pressure on top of the volcanoes, which will almost certainly lead to increased eruptions. So if, and as it seems to be doing right now because of climate change, the ice is melting and the ice starts melting significantly. This will almost certainly cause an increase in the amount of the eruptions from these volcanoes. On the other hand, there’s a more uncertain link between whether these volcanoes will cause melting in the ice if they are potentially active? And there is still a lot of questions about that.

MF: Max, thanks for telling us about it.

MVWDV: Yeah, nice talking to you.

RD: That was third-year geology student Max Van Wyk de Vries, whose idea led to the discovery of a major volcanic region under the Antarctic ice. And we reached him in the French Alps.

Back To Top »

Part 2: Charlottesville teacher, grizzly hunt ban

Charlottesville teacher

Guest: Derek Weimer

RD: A clearer picture is emerging of the man accused of turning a violent protest deadly in Charlottesville, Virginia. 20-Year-old James Alex Fields Jr. is accused of killing a woman and injuring 19 others. Police allege he deliberately slammed a silver Dodge Challenger into a crowd of counter-protesters at the protest on Saturday. Mr. Fields was pictured attending the rally in Charlottesville hours before the attack. And people who knew him as a teenager say he had sympathy for white supremacists and Nazis, and admiration for Adolf Hitler. Derek Weimer was Mr. Field’s social studies teacher in high school. We reached him in Florence, Kentucky.

MF: Derek, when you learned that the person accused of the attack in Charlottesville was your student. How did you react?

DEREK WEIMER: I was shocked. You know, I think like any person would be — any former teacher — would be extremely shocked. But you know once I sat down and really started thinking about it and thinking about James and you know the history I had with him and what I knew. I came upon why should I really be that shocked? You know it was kind of like when I started thinking about everything it was like that was like a perfect storm that came together.

MF: What do you mean by that?

DW: Perfect storm being he had white supremacist, Nazi views from a young age. That was very much part of who he was and his beliefs. He dealt with, at least what he told me, that you know he had some mental issues and challenges he was dealing with. And then the third element is this very divisive, polarized political environment here in the United States that we're in right now.

MF: And let's start with his views. When did it strike you that he had neo-Nazi or white supremacist views?

DW: Well, his freshman year was when he was at Cooper High School, his ninth-grade year history teacher you know one day she told me she was like wow, you can't believe what I what this kid in my class wrote! And I believe, like I said, I'm 90 per cent sure the written assignment he turned in was just totally beyond the pale. I mean when you read it, it was clear that his views were right there alongside Nazi ideology, white supremacy, whites are the dominant race, et cetera, et cetera. And she sent that up the chain of command base to the administration. It didn't take long for you know a lot of teachers, especially ones that had him in class, to all kind of understand that he had some really radical beliefs. You know teachers talk. We know that oh, he's not just going to an amateur phase and maybe looking for attention and grabbing onto this Nazi thing. No, he’s wrapped pretty tight in it. The faculty knew.

MF: He wrote a paper for you I think specifically that really struck you. Can you tell us about that?

DW: Yeah it was. It was for my course “America's Modern Wars”, which was an elective for juniors and seniors. And pretty much the capstone exercise was you know by the end of the semester they had to read a book about any conflict or foreign policy issue of the post-World War Two world. Write a simple book review on it. And he turned in a paper that was all about the German military of World War Two with a very heavy focus on the Waffen-SS. The Waffen-SS was the military arm of the Nazi party. He really glorified them and you know their combat laurels and awards and how effective they were in battle and all the stuff it was. I mean it was very clear that he had a great love and like of the Waffen-SS and the hardcore Nazis.

MF: But he wouldn't be the first student to have an interest in the German military in the Second World War. It was something much beyond that, wasn’t it?

DW: Oh yeah. I mean he definitely went way beyond that. And that's funny because I've seen this countless times. You know young kids they really get into World War Two and into military history and some of them really get into the German side of World War Two. Not because they necessarily wanted them to win or they love Nazism or anything ridiculous like that, but just because the German military in 1940 and for most of the war was extremely formidable. They had big tanks — Tiger tanks — cool stuff like that. But of those kids, sometimes you'll see a couple that will start to go beyond that and they'll start to look at the politics behind the German war machine and World War Two. And you know the Nazi party and Adolf Hitler. And you know as a teacher, I'm always on the lookout for that. I was never favorable to the Nazis in class. I always took every opportunity to expose their political views and their actions and their history and just how evil they were. And you do that because you want that kid or two in your class to kind of realize that it's OK to like look at it from a military history standpoint, but it stops there.

MF: After he'd written that paper for you, and it really did stand out to you the glorification of the Nazis, what sort of conversation did you have with him?

DW: He was one of those type of people who want you to talk to him for a little while — five minutes or so. At some point, you know his beliefs of whites being dominant, of the Nazis being good, of Adolf Hitler standing for good things and making sense with some of the stuff he was doing that would come into the conversation. And when that would come into the conversation, I would then always you know come back with reasons why that was wrong. Why they were wrong, et cetera, et cetera.

MF: And how did he respond to that?

DW: He would just kind of shake his head and listen. Kind of acknowledge what I was saying. It's kind of like he knew that I was the opposite of some of the beliefs he believed in. And I think in a way, he respected that and he listened to me. But, in the end, I could not, or I did not succeed in turning his opinions and views around.

MF: You told a reporter from The Washington Post. “I failed”. What did you mean by that?

DW: I failed. I mean I for two years, I worked on him to get him to abandon his views. To come to his senses. To somehow you know reach his moral side. I mean, at this point, I'm thinking if he truly had one. But to understand that you know Adolf Hitler, Nazis, the idea that whites are the supreme race and this is something that the United States is truly about. You know to get him to abandon those ideas. And you know I failed. And I mean on a personal note, I think that if educators were more honest about our successes and failures, we over time would probably learn to be better educators.

MF: But what could you have done differently do you think?

DW: I don't know? Maybe I could have been more extreme, more blunt, aggressive. maybe. Maybe I could have taken him aside and just gave him a matter-of-fact, in your face type of discussion that you know you're going down the wrong path. And these are examples of your future.

MF: You think you're being too friendly with him?

DW: Looking back on it now, maybe. Yeah, maybe I should have been way more aggressive. But you know I wish I had a crystal ball. If I would have any inkling that he was you know capable or possibly capable of this sort of violence. Yeah, I would have been more aggressive.

MF: You've been doing a lot of thinking about this.

DW: Yeah, I have. You know and that's a perfect storm. You know that’s the conclusion I came up to. There's multiple things here that was going on with him and this wasn't something that just happened overnight. You know this was, as we find out more information, this was a young person who was on this road for a long time. And I told my wife you know why I'm going to the news media about this one and talking because there's other people like him, there's other kids like him that are on this path. And you know I don't have a perfect answer for how to just immediately fix it. But we as a society need to be more aware of this. We need to be more vigilant and we need to be more active in getting involved when we see kids on that path. So they don't become like James Fields at age 20.

MF: Derek Weimer, thanks for speaking to us.

DW: Sure, you're welcome anytime.

MF: Bye bye.

DW: Bye.

RD: Deric Weimer is a former social studies teacher at Randall K. Cooper High School in Kentucky, where he once taught James Alex Fields Jr. Who's now accused of second-degree murder in the Charlottesville attack. And we reached Mr. Weimer in Florence, Kentucky. We've posted more on that story on the As It Happens website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Racoon measurer

RD: When Toronto began to distribute its so-called “raccoon-proof” green bins last year, that meant a new project for Suzanne MacDonald. She's a professor at York University. And her project involves measuring and weighing raccoons… dead, frozen raccoons provided to her by the city. And today, Ms MacDonald spoke to the CBC's Matt Galloway, host of “Metro Morning” about why she's doing this.

SOUNDCLIP

SUZANNE MACDONALE: I know it sounds really weird, but I thought that if the green bins — our new green bins — are having the desired effect of keeping the raccoons out of them. Raccoons will have less to eat. And in that case, they should be slimmer. So I started measuring them last year, before the bins were completely rolled out, to get a baseline to find out how fat are our raccoons: pretty fat. And now, I'm going to measure them for the next couple of years to see if there’s any effect on their BMI — their Body Mass Index — as you calculate just like humans.

MATT GALLOWAY: What are you finding now?

SM: Well, I've been doing it for a year, so it's hard to say. But I can tell you A, our racoons are very fat. And B, I did my first year, so I had a comparison from last July to this July. And I actually found the heaviest raccoon I've ever found this year. Not last year, but this year. He was 15-kilograms. I could barely lift him.

MG: Oh my goodness!

SM: Yep, he's a big boy. He was almost a metre long.

MG: Do we have fat raccoons because the green bins that we have had until this point, have been raccoon-friendly?

SM: We will find out. I mean it's my hypothesis that if they have been raccoon-friendly and now they're not, our raccoons should get thinner.

MG: Why else would we have fat raccoons?

SM: Well, the raccoons have a lot from which to choose. They can go to the buffet that is the garbage bin behind any restaurant. They can go to anybody's house that doesn't properly secure their garbage. There's a lot of food in the city. So it may not be that they relied exclusively on, or even primarily, on the green bins, but we'll find out.

MG: Is your sense though that because these new green beans are ostensibly raccoon-proof, the racoons will become thinner over time? Or the population will become thinner over time?

SM: That's my hope. I think that was the whole point of the green beans is to keep them out of the garbage, which they shouldn't be eating anyway. They shouldn't be eating the junk that we throw away. And that they would get thinner. And the idea is if they get thinner, the females will have fewer babies and that will solve our problem. If you notice, if you walk around and you see females, most of them have five babies.

MG: There were five babies that were living on my deck not so long ago.

SM: Yes! The five is the magic number in Toronto. And that's a very big litter size. So if we can have thinner moms, they will have fewer babies.

RD: That was York University Professor Suzanne MacDonald, speaking with “Metro Morning” host Matt Galloway, earlier today.

[Music: Electronica]

Grizzly hunt ban

Guest: Scott Ellis

RD: If grizzly bears in British Columbia could grasp the news, they'd probably breathe a little easier today. But what might sound good to ursus horribilis sounds rather horrible for those who make a living from hunting it. The NDP government has made good on a notable campaign promise to ban trophy hunting of grizzlies across the province, including in the area known as The Great Bear Rain Forest. Hunting for meat will still be permitted. Scott Ellis is the executive director of the Guide Outfitters Association of B.C., which represents hunting guides across the province. And we reached him in Campbell River.

MF: Scott Ellis, hello.

SCOTT ELLIS: Hello, Mike.

MF: You've said it's a sad day when we move away from science-based decisions. So I guess you don't feel this decision to ban trophy hunting of grizzlies is based in science, why is that?

SE: It's not about science at all. I mean this science shows that the grizzly bear populations are strong. They're growing in range and they're growing in density. So we're seeing higher numbers of bears and we're seeing bears where we’ve never seen them before. Like where I'm calling from today in Campbell River, on Vancouver Island.

MF: So what is it about then?

SE: It's really about the emotional position that people have whether or not we should be hunting bears? We've been hunting a very controlled hunt in British Columbia since 1976. So the resident hunters they're on a draw. And if you are a non-resident, you must use a guide. The guides are on a strict quota. And if they're successful, the government has an inspection to get details around age and sex and weight and health of that bear. And we know the science is good. The rest of it is emotion and rhetoric around politics and votes.

MF: Coastal First Nations don't support it though, do they? And do you think that is for the same reasons?

SE: I'm not an expert on Costal First Nations. I believe that there's seven or nine bands that make up that coalition. And in British Columbia, there's 203 First Nations you know was not very many treaties quite frankly; I think you can count them on one hand. So you know there's a bunch of different opinions and positions from different First Nations around the province of British Columbia. I can tell you that there's about 25 different First Nations that own guide territories. And far as I know, all of them that have a quota, other than you can say the Raincoast group, but that's not really First Nations-owned. Hunts the grizzly bear quota they have.

MF: Let's take that other argument then head on. And the Forests Minister, Doug Donaldson, he said that hunting — trophy hunting — is, quote, “Not a socially acceptable practice in 2017.” I think there are probably a lot of people who just feel that hunting for a trophy, to have the head and the paws, it's just distasteful. How would you address those types of feelings and concerns?

SE: I think that any time a hunter or anybody else takes a life with an animal that should be done with due care and understand what's going on. There's a lot of people disconnected from wildlife and a lot of people that don't hunt anymore, so that that's fair enough. We've been advocating for pulling out the meat and changing the regulations so it matches up with black bears for almost five years now. We've got many of our members that pull out the meat. I've had it myself. If it's cooked properly, there's no issues. So it's something that should have been done. And, unfortunately, we've gone all the way the other way. So now, it's actually wasteful to leave the cape and hide behind and pull the meat out. And, essentially, the same number of bears could die, other than the six or seven that get hunted in the Great Bear Rain Forest. You know our harvest is not that high. Depending on the year you know we're between 80 and 100 bears spread across a million-square-kilometers. And for us, if the bear population is healthy and growing, why not allow a harvest?

MF: But the new rules do allow for a harvest of the bears. It's just that you're not allowed to keep the hide and the head and the paws, right?

SE: That is correct.

MF: So are you saying that the people who come in to hunt, if you don’t let them keep the hide and the paws and the head. That they're not going to be interested in the “sport of it”?

SE: Every hunter has their own reasons for hunting if you want a memento for your hunts, fantastic. It doesn't matter whether it's deer or moose or elk or bear, it goes back in our culture. We've got a proud heritage and we've been doing this stuff for a long time. And if it's done appropriately, if it's done responsibly, if it's done under care and the wildlife is doing well, there is a good opportunity to make an income from this. This is a good opportunity for a small business in rural British Columbia, which really don't have too much else. I mean we mine, we log, we make dams, we do all this other stuff. It's all around sustainable use. So let's make sure we do that properly. Let's do it environmentally-sound. Let's make sure that we do that as ethically and as humanely as possible. And let's be understanding that we are taking a life. Let's not take one species. We have species in British Columbia that are in trouble. We've got declines in Caribou. We've got documented declines in Moose, Mule deer. They're not on the radar. So this is nothing more than emotional techniques to gather some votes from urban ridings. The COs — Conservation Officers — killed about as many bears as our industry does. I think that's wasteful and so let's focus on herd health. And if the population justifies the hunts, you can harvest one or two per cent and you can put significant funds back into surveying, monitoring, collaring, inventories, improving their habitat. Those are fantastic things to do and those are the things that the Guide Outfitters Association promotes.

MF: What's this going to do to the business of the outfitters who are part of your association?

SE: Well, as you can imagine, my phone's rung off the hook over the last day-and-a-half. This is a blow to small business in rural British Columbia. And there's going to be people that are really not viable anymore.

MF: Is there not money to be made from taking people to sight bears? To view them in the same way you do whales and that sort of thing?

SE: Yes, absolutely. And there's a strong wildlife viewing industry in the province. Ninety per cent of companies are on the coast I believe. Most of that is in the Great Bear Rain Forest, of which half is close to hunting. So it's really a little bit arrogant or ignorant to think that we could apply that infrastructure across the province. It's very difficult to take a bus load of you know Japanese and tell them that they need to saddle up a horse train and go up the trail and then hike up a mountain for the chance of seeing a bear. I mean you just can't get the volumes of people to make it make sense. A few rivers where the salmon come back? Absolutely! So there are spot-specific places where you can have a good, vibrant bear-viewing opportunity. And the outfitters see that opportunity, they have those tenures and they do that business already.

MF: Scott Ellis, thank you very much for speaking to us.

SE: You're very welcome. Thank you.

MF: Bye bye.

SE: Bye.

RD: Scott Ellis is the executive director of the Guide Outfitters Association of B.C. We reached him in Campbell River.

[Music: Indie rock]

De-Smurfed town

RD: Dateline: Juzcar, Spain.

[Music: Dateline theme]

In 1958, the artist Pierre Culliford, better known as “Peyo”, was having lunch with a friend when he needed the salt shaker. But he couldn't think of the word for salt. So he said, “Pass the schtroumpf.” To which his friend said, “OK, but when you're done schtroumpfing, schtrompf it back.” It became a running joke between them. And when Peyo later came up with a cute blue creature, he called it a “Schtroumpf”, which a Dutch translator rendered as “Smurf”. What a fun story! Until you remember that well, Smurfs are terrible. Here's the latest evidence of that. For centuries upon centuries, the tiny Spanish village of Juzcar was white, one of the famous “Pueblos Blancos” of Andalusia. Then in 2011, some people at Sony Pictures had that kind of atrocious idea that only movie executives have to promote the Smurfs 3D movie: they would paint the historic white village blue. It reportedly took 4,000 litres of blue paint to thoroughly desecrate Juzcar, but it worked. Not only did Sony get publicity for an unnecessary movie featuring Smurfs rapping. But Juzcar suddenly stood out from its neighbors. One source says about 300 tourists each year visited before the paint job, and about 80,000 tourists visited afterward. So the village voted to stay blue and embraced its new look. Now, it was all well and good when Sony Pictures was benefiting from Juzcar’s Smurfication. But when Juzcar itself began to benefit, the Payoh estate wanted a piece. First, the village agreed to pay a sort of Smurf-tax to the estate. Then, apparently, that deal fell apart because last week, Juzcar town council made an extremely un-Smurffy announcement it had, quote, “Lost the authorization to market itself as a Smurf town.” So as of today, there will be no further Smurf-related ventures there. Further proof that Smurfs will always disappoint you. Juzcar did was make a big change to promote the little creatures. And now, it’s deeply regretting it’s trans-Smurf-ation.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

August 15, 2017 episode transcript

More Stories Like This