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The AIH Transcript for August 9, 2017

Hosts: Rosemary Barton and Robert Doane

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

ROSEMARY BARTON: Hello, I'm Rosemary Barton.

ROBERT DOAN: Good evening, I'm Robert Doane. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

RD: Tonight:

RB: President Trump threatened “fire in fury”. North Korea warned of an “enveloping fire”. And in the heat of this apocalyptic talk, the island of Guam is sweating because North Korea has also said it could be the target of a missile strike.

RD: Present tents. The Canadian military sets up shelters for hundreds of asylum seekers crossing into Quebec from the U.S. But a United Nations representative says the new arrivals don't really know what they're getting into.

RB: Coming undone because of what's going on done. A U.N. Commission investigating human rights abuses in Syria is suddenly short one pivotal member: Carla del Ponte, who has resigned, citing a frustrating lack of progress.

RD: Coach as coach can. He's quarantined in his London hotel room with symptoms of a norovirus. But that didn't prevent Richard Parkinson from throwing out advice to Canadian shot putter Britney Crew at tonight's track worlds final.

RB: We are never ever getting that together — I wanted to sing that. The despairing cry of the people trying to assemble the jury for a case involving Taylor Swift because they had to find people who had no opinion of Taylor Swift.

RD: And… access to grind. If your password looks like a curse word in a comic strip, it's probably because our guest advised you to include asterisks and exclamation marks 14 years ago. But now, he’d like to request a reset. As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that always includes a number of special characters.

[Music: Theme]

Back To Top »

Part 1: North Korea: Guam, Quebec refugees: UNHCR, password security re-think

North Korea: Guam

Guest: Robert A. Underwood

RD: It was not comforting news for residents of Guam to wake up to. The North Korean military says it's reviewing plans to fire missiles at the small Western-Pacific island. Guam is a U.S. territory and home to some key U.S. military bases. The threat came hours after U.S. President Donald Trump delivered his own salvo. Yesterday, President Trump warned North Korea would be met with “fire and fury” if it continued to make threats towards the U.S. Robert A. Underwood is the President of the University of Guam, and a former delegate to the House of Representatives. We reached him in Tamuning, Guam.

RB: Mr. Underwood, what is the mood like in Guam right now, after all this intense rhetoric and real threats from North Korea?

ROBERT A. UNDERWOOD: Well, I would say that the mood is a concern, but not panicky. I think we've been through this drill several times in the past. But, of course, each time it comes up, it seems a little bit more intense. And given the heated rhetoric in the past day, it's even more intense than in the past.

RB: Yeah, I mean what you know what the North Korea state media said, just to give people an idea, is that the country's military would examine a plan to fire missiles and make an enveloping fire around Guam. Is that language that you are used to there?

RAU: No, it's not. And then, of course, we have a missile defense system in place — a missile battery — but that basically I think we're more relying on the inability of North Korea to have a good guided missile system given the nature that this is really rhetorical excess that we expect from North Korea. Of course, we don't expect that from the White House, but it happened a little bit this time. So this adds a little bit to our anxiety.

RB: Well, I was going to say the fact that the U.S. president yesterday used the words “fire and fury” when he hit back, at least in terms of rhetoric against North Korea. What did you make of that I mean he is your president too?

RAU: He said that if North Korea makes another threat, there will be “fire and fury”. And, of course, he's made another threat. So now the rhetorical excess is continuing to increase. You know, of course, the lack of predictability is always the occasion for misunderstanding and for the possibility of things going wrong. So that remains our biggest source of concern at this time.

RB: Today, we heard from the U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson that this was language the president was using because he wanted to make sure Kim Jong-Un understood. Because the diplomatic attempts are not working, what do you make of that?

RAU: Yes, Guam is never consulted, of course. We're part of the U.S., but we’re never consulted on military movements. But in this particular instance, I don't think Secretary Tillerson was given advance notice either. So he's trying to make the best of an awkward situation.

RB: So you say that this is something people in Guam are used to. Why? It's happened many times before, I guess?

RAU: It happened many times before and, of course, Guam is the only U.S. territory that was occupied during World War Two, so you know the experience of war and being at the front edge of the projection of American power into this part of the world is kind of part of our social and political reality. And you know then, of course, the enormous military facilities that are present here — the military occupies about a third of the island — reportedly has the largest weapons storage in any part of Asia. So this is where power is projected in an unfettered way into the Asian region.

RB: So you are a target in some ways, but do you also feel better protected knowing that military presence is so significant?

RAU: Well, some people feel better protected. But an increasing number feel like we're a target and you know we're just tired of being a target. And we're tired of being thought of in those terms. Even in the in the in media reports in the U.S. when they refer to Guam, they don't refer to the fact that we have you know 160,000 people here. They refer to the fact that there's you know 6,000 military personnel.

RB: People think of you just as a military base.

RAU: Think of us as a military base. And that's pretty disturbing, but we try to accommodate ourselves to that. But increasingly, it becomes difficult.

RB: Even if you're used to these threats and you say they are sort of at a different level. Do people do anything to prepare themselves when they hear this rhetoric? Is there anything that people do practically or more mentally to prepare themselves?

RAU: I think it's more mental preparation. There's a lot of reassurance going around and people you know telling each other to just hold on. There's really… you know, we live on an island that's 30 miles long and you know four to eight miles wide. If we were hit by a nuclear weapon, there would be no ability to really respond. So the question is you know is that really likely to happen and how do we mentally get our arms around that? And I think, for the most part, we have. Secretary Tillerson came to Guam and he said Americans should sleep soundly at night. And I think, by and large, most Americans are sleeping soundly at night. But the Americans in Guam are sleeping soundly with one eye open.

RB: What do you make of this administration's strategy in dealing with North Korea?

RAU: it doesn't look like a strategy, that's that that's a concern. Because it seems like that there's spurts of activity and then there's attempts to kind of explain what the statements mean and what the overall strategy is. So that adds to the anxiety over this situation because it doesn't appear like there's a real concerted strategy going through. And you know this strategy has to be not just measured and not just expressed in diplomatic terms, but it should be worked out with the congressional leaders and none of that seems to be the case.

RB: And yet, you are going to continue to live there happily?

RAU: This is my home. It’s my homeland.

RB: Mr. Underwood, thank you. I appreciate your time.

RAU: Thank you very much.

RB: Nice to speak with you. Bye bye.

RD: Robert A. Underwood is the former delegate of Guam to the U.S. House of Representatives, and the current President of the University of Guam. And we reached him in Tamuning, Guam. Now, amidst all the all the saber-rattling, there is a glimmer of good news. Today, North Korea's official news agency said Hyeon Soo Lim has been freed. The Mississauga, Ontario pastor was serving a life sentence of hard labour, after being convicted of attempting to overthrow the North Korean regime in 2015. A Canadian delegation had arrived in Pyongyang yesterday to negotiate his release. Mr. Lim is reportedly in poor health and the North Korean regime says it has released him on humanitarian grounds. Sam Oh was one of Mr. Lim's parishioners at Light Korean Presbyterian Church in Mississauga. Here's his reaction to the news.

SOUNDCLIP

SAM OH: Reverend Lim, he really loved people. He loved God and he loved people.

REPORTER: What are your thoughts about the news about your pastor?

SO: Well, I was crying. The faith prayer, he listens always. He promised. In our church, we pray every day, every day, every meeting and, especially, the morning prayer today. But when we hear the news, he listens all the time. We believe that.

RD: Sam Oh, reacting to the news that Mississauga pastor Hyeon Soo Lim has been released by the North Korean regime, after two and a half years.

[Music: Cultural]

Quebec refugee: UNHCR

Guest: Jean-Nicolas Beuze

RD: This morning, the Canadian Forces were deployed to a border crossing in Quebec, where they immediately began setting up tents for asylum seekers. Record numbers of newcomers, many of them Haitians, have been crossing illegally from the United States over the past month. Ottawa insists that the tents are just a temporary measure to let it catch up with the surge. But Canadians usually think of refugee camps going up in far off places, where they are administered by groups like the United Nations High Commission for Refugees. Jean-Nicolas Beuze is the UNHCR representative in Canada. We reached him in Ottawa.

RB: Mr. Beuze, what do you make of the government's decision to set up this tent camp to welcome these asylum seekers who have been coming across the border?

JEAN-NICOLAS BEUZE: We understand that the capacity at the border Lacolle has been quite stretched over the last few days with up to 400 people arriving over the last few days. So therefore, the fact that the army has been sent to set up this temporary shelter is very much welcome because that will allow the best condition possible.

RB: Does it though send… I don't know… a contrary to message to what we've also heard from the government, which is you know you need to go through the proper channels to try to get status in Canada. If they're setting up tents right by the border, what message do you think that sends to Haitians that are fleeing the United States?

JNB: I'm sure that the asylum seeker will be informed that the army has nothing to do with the processing of their case and they’re only there temporarily to set up this camp and these mobile shelters. Then, the asylum seeker will have to go through the normal procedures of claiming their case before the Canadian Refugee Board, which will legitimately decide whether they can stay or not in Canada as refugees.

RB: You have been down to Lacolle and talked to some of the people. What can you tell us about the people that are making this journey and why they're coming?

JNB: A lot of people we interviewed, in particular Haitian, may have been given false information about the fact that it was much more easy to claim asylum in Canada than in the US. Well, actually, when you look at the statistics, it's actually the same recognition rate on both sides of the country. So a number of them had been in the United States for quite a long time, had an established life, the kids were in school and they didn't take the decision to come to Canada and very lightly. But the outcome will remain with the Refugee Board to decide whether they can stay.

RB: Do you think that will in fact be less likely that they will be able to stay, given that they're not fleeing Haiti, they're fleeing the United States?

JNB: The assessment of their refugee claim will be with respect to whether they face persecution indeed if they are being sent back to Haiti and not in relation to the U.S. And we know that the situation in Haiti has improved quite a lot. There are certain profiles of people who still face a difficult condition in terms of the respect for their human rights. Including, for example, we had recently issues related to sexual orientation and identity.

RB: Why do you think that they're coming to Canada? Is it because of the false information, or does it have anything to do with the welcoming messages that the federal government has been sending sort of around the world?

JNB: I think that it's very much the false information which has been driving the recent arrivals and the fear that the temporary protection status in the United States may be lifted, which will force them to return to Haiti as of January 2018.

RB: Could the Canadian government be doing a better job in terms of information to people about the chances, as you point out, the chance that they'll be able to stay in Canada is about the same as it would be in the United States? Could Canada be doing more on that front?

JNB: I think all of us can do more in terms of informing potential newcomers and asylum seekers about the procedures their chances to be recognized one way or another. But the word of mouth and social media plays a critical role in this respect and we have very few tools for the institution to address those rumors. And when the word comes that it may be easier to go there and get status, it's very difficult to fight against that kind of false information.

RB: I know you've been to lots of refugee camps around the world and certainly the mayor of Montreal continues to say this isn't a crisis, they can manage it. Do you worry that though it could become that? Are you worried about the numbers yet or when would you be?

JNB: Not at all worried for the time being. I mean the numbers are certainly manageable and I would certainly agree with the mayor of Montreal, in addition to federal and provincial authorities. Canada has a strongly-established asylum system. Services there for asylum seekers to be able to be accommodated and also receive medical treatment if need be, the kids will be in school and we don't really see for the time being a risk that this turns into a crisis.

RB: But fair to say it's unusual?

JNB: It's unusual for Canada. But a few years ago in 2001, I'm being told that there were up to 45,000 asylum seekers in Canada. And the prediction for this year is only at 30-35,000. So it's unusual, but it has happened in the past and the country was able to face a bigger number.

RB: The people who are rejected because that that will happen as you point out. What happens to those people? They'll be deported to Haiti and what kind of life awaits them there, given the amount of time now that they have spent in the United States?

JNB: In in the summer of 2016, Canada decided to lift the moratorium on deportation back to Haiti because the situation in terms of widespread violence or inability to survive after the earthquake where assets are not being present anymore in Haiti. So a number of people will, unfortunately, return to dire poverty, to daily struggle. But let's remind everyone that it is actually three-quarters of the world which lives under the poverty line or in dire situations. So Haitians, like many others, will go back to a situation of deprivation, economic deprivation and social struggles. And the dilemma is really how do we help them back in Haiti and in those countries to be able to survive through a dignified life with opportunities and a dignified life.

RB: Jean-Nicolas Beuze, thank you very much.

JNB: Thank you, Rosemary.

RD: Jean-Nicolas Beuze is the UNHCR’s representative in Canada and we reached him in Ottawa.

[Music: Cultural]

Last. In.

Password security guy

Guest: Bill Burr

RD: Bill Burr is very sorry: capital “S”, numeral-zero-small-R-big-R-sorry. Back in 2003, when Mr. Burr worked for the US National Institute of Standards and Technology, he came up with a set of secure password guidelines. Guidelines that were so influential a lot of us followed them to this day. And now, he would like us to know that he got a few things wrong. And we reached Bill Burr in North Potomac, Maryland.

RB: So Mr. Burr, I understand that you're having some second thoughts about your contributions to password security. Tell me tell me why?

BILL BURR: Well, I have been for many years actually. What I did was some advice written in a big document about electronic authentication. It was written for federal system managers or administrators and included a little bit on passwords. It was just one part of it. And I think the effect of the advice that I gave on passwords there wasn't what I had intended and it tends to drive people crazy.

RB: I would agree.

BB: But, on the other hand, I’m not the only one giving that kind of information, so I don't deserve the entire blame for this. I wasn’t actually writing for users so much as for administrators. And I was hoping that if people use good, high-quality passwords administrators would let them go a long time before they change them. But there's a certain amount of security theatre in all this. And I think it was just easier for the administrators to keep the password change interval short and drive people crazy.

RB: Just remind people what were the original guidelines, whether you were giving them to me or not, what did you originally say should be the theory behind it?

BB: Well, I gave you a kind of formula to estimate how password rules affected the strength of passwords. And it was probably too complicated and not sufficiently justifiable actually in terms of you know just a very rough estimate. And in any event, people wound up with a bunch of fairly complicated rules as a result of that and relatively short password change intervals in their systems. And, as I say, the net result is to drive people crazy and to get them to do dumb things, which don't improve their security at all.

RB: Dumb things like what?

BB: Well, dumb things like if you are changing passwords and your current password is “password”, you make your “password1”, and then the next one after that “password2”, for example. Those things are pretty predictable and I probably should have anticipated because that's what I wound up doing actually in some cases.

[Sound: RB and BB share a laugh because we’ve all broken that rule — several times]

BB: You have to eat your own dog food somehow in the real world. And because the amount of pain it causes is not commensurate with the overall value, which was which is not as great as you might think because there are so many ways of attacking passwords that have come to the forefront now where it doesn't matter how good the password is. Because they turn you into giving it to them or, basically, they steal the entire massive password file back at the server, which were just incompetent to stop people from stealing password files. And then they attacked them with extremely powerful computers off line. So what you'd have to do to resist that almost defies human ability.

RB: So what works for a password then? Is this two-step authentication that some people would have at work?

BB: That's probably the best answer we've got now, frankly. Pick a reasonable password and then use two-step authentication for things that really matter a lot. For things that don't matter so much, maybe not, OK? And there's so many things like that that we wind up with this vast profusion of passwords. I guess I’d tell administrators: don't make people authenticate unless you absolutely need to, you know?

RB: The fact that even here at the CBC, I have to change my password, as you said, every 90 days and it does drive me nuts because it won't let me put in the same password, or a password I've ever used before. Is that also pointless?

BB: Well, that’s true. But it probably will let you put in a password that's only one character different.

RB: Yeah.

BB: And that's what people do.

RB: And so that’s pointless too?

BB: It’s what I have done myself too.

RB: Right. Do you feel responsible for the agony that I have with my passwords, the fact that I have a thing on my phone where I've got them all written down because my memory's not so good?

BB: A little bit. I feel responsible for not having been smart enough to figure something out that maybe might have made the overall situation a little bit better back in 2002 and 2003, when I was doing this. And since then, the document’s been revised and the new one has just come out. And I participated as a consultant in some of it. And it's a good bit better now. But there's no perfect answer here — passwords — we're stuck with them. They're part of the triad of multi-factor authentication. You really want something that's in people's heads, so they give the direct sense they participated in the authentication as opposed to they had their dongle stolen, right?

RB: Right. So what kind of passwords do you use?

BB: Well, it just depends on what kind of system I've got or what I'm doing with them.

RB: Are phrases better than just like you know your birthday or your mom's birthday?

BB: Yeah, sure. Phrases are good, generally. But you’ve got to be a little careful about what kind of phrase you use. I tend to pick bits of text books that are widely available. You know Shakespeare or something like that if I forget exactly how it's worded, I can look it up.

[Sound: RB and BB laugh at this smart idea]

BB: But you have to find something that works for you, you know? Different things work for different people.

RB: I read somewhere that the guy who invented you know the pop-ups that come up on your website that are super annoying, that he regrets that he created the pop-ups. So maybe you and he should sit down and talk.

BB: Probably.

RB: Bill Burr, it's a pleasure. You're such a delight I won't hold my passwords against you.

BB: OK.

RB: Nice to meet you, sir.

BB: Good to meet you. Thank you.

RD: But I might. 14 Years ago, Bill Bur came up with the online password guidelines a lot of us still follow. I forgive you. Guidelines he's since reconsidered. We reached Bill Burr in North Potomac, Maryland. And for more on Mr. Burr and password security, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Shake it Off/ Pop]

Taylor Swift Trial

RD: Now this is Taylor Swift with “Shake it Off”, which is a song. I know you're thinking: Robert, is it a song? Because I thought it was a sort of ubiquitous sound, like birds, or wind. Well, that's a common response. When it was released in 2014, it was a massive hit. And since then, even if you haven't played it on purpose, you've heard it constantly, everywhere. I mean, if you think you're in a mall, but you're not hearing “Shake it Off”, you should panic, because you're not in a mall. That's proven to be a mixed blessing for Ms Swift. On the one hand, it helped make her incredibly rich and famous. On the other, it made it difficult to find anyone in the vicinity of Denver, Colorado, who doesn't have an opinion of her. The reason that was a problem is that Taylor Swift was in court in Denver this week. In 2013, she accused a local Denver DJ of groping her at a meet-and-greet. The DJ got fired. In 2015, the former DJ sued Ms. Swift. He says he did not grope her. A month later, Ms. Swift filed a countersuit. She maintains that he did grope her. And now, in 2017, a jury will be asked to decide who did what to whom. But putting together a jury of people who don't already have feelings about one of the biggest stars on earth was a challenge. Along with the standard questions to prospective jurors, this case featured new ones: “Have you ever considered yourself a fan of Taylor Swift?”And “Is anyone in your immediate family a fan of Taylor Swift?” They were asked whether, in the past two years, they'd listened to a Taylor Swift song, watched a Taylor Swift video, read an article about Taylor Swift, bought a Taylor Swift album, or gone to a Taylor Swift concert. And, if for some magical reason they hadn't done any of the above, prospective jurors still had to answer the question. “Do you have an opinion about Taylor Swift?” Well, apparently, after a long arduous process of elimination, they found the only 12 people who don't already have an opinion about Taylor Swift. And now, they'll be forced by law to have some kind of opinion about Taylor Swift. So welcome to our world, jurors. Good luck shaking off “Shake it Off”. Back To Top »

Part 2: New Orleans flood, Carla del Ponte leaves UN Syria inquiry, quarantined shot put coach

New Orleans flood

Guest: Tegan Wendland

RD: A record downpour in New Orleans this weekend unleashed severe flooding and a political storm. Today, New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu requested the resignations of four top city officials, after public hearings revealed the city's drainage system was not operating at full capacity. Tegan Wendland is an environmental reporter with WWNO, an NPR station in New Orleans. She was caught in the flood on Saturday, and has been following the political fallout since. She joins us from New Orleans.

RB: So Tegan Wendland, before we get into sort of the fallout, take me back to last Saturday. Tell me what happened to you? When did you realize something was going on and this wasn't a normal amount of rain?

TEGAN WENDLAND: Well, I'd been out running errands and I stopped by a friend's house and kind of waited out a little bit of the rain. And then there was a lull, I got in my car and started to drive home and I kept meeting dead ends where roads were flooded out. And people were walking up having abandoned their cars, like walking up the street carrying dogs and babies with them. And they were like soaking wet from having walked through it like this is not good. So I'm parked for a while and waited. Eventually, it took a very circuitous route to get as close to my house as I could. That was around 8:00 o'clock at night. And then, from there, I walked over to my friend's house and we got her canoe out and just put it in the street and started canoeing around and helping people because there were so many people who just needed to get a few blocks to get home.

RB: So, obviously, it was deep enough for a canoe. But do you have an idea of how many inches or feet it was at that point, or on the side of your car where it got to?

TW: I mean I saw areas where it was at least three feet. I saw cars that were flooded out so that the doors were nearly completely covered and there were just a few inches left of the car. So I mean it might have been 10 inches, but as it pooled in certain areas, it was really scary.

RB: And it happened fast?

TW: It happened super-fast. It was just in an afternoon. It was pretty easy to go canoeing around the street and it was kind of otherworldly because this is my neighborhood. I mean I bike down these streets, I walk down these streets and you know it was getting later and later, we were out until about 2:00 in the morning. And once we got to this big street where all these people were sitting and waiting, we just went back and forth on that street over and over again with different passengers. We just yelled out: anybody need a ride? At one point, a paramedic asked us to take him to a patient that had called for an ambulance.

RB: Oh my gosh!

TW: And then he needed us to give a ride to the patient back to the ambulance. She was an elderly woman, who could barely get in the canoe. Her legs had problems. We had to try to make her comfortable and at ease with getting in this canoe with these random young women.

RB: So I understand you weren't there. You were not there at the time of Hurricane Katrina. So I guess it didn't bring back any memories for you, but I can't imagine what that did for the people you were picking up? That must have been the first thing they thought of?

TW: Yeah. And a lot of people did bring that up. There were at least two women who were in tears and one who was just sort of like muttering that she was so scared and this was just like Katrina. It's all happening over again. She's going to lose her house; she's going to lose her car. It was really educational for me to have an experience where I saw someone reliving that harrowing time because it's it was this galvanizing experience culturally for people here.

RB: So meteorologists say that this was this was a freak event. It's not normal for New Orleans to get this kind of rain.

TW: Well, we have had a number of record-breaking rains over the past year. We had one just a couple of weeks ago that flooded some of the similar neighborhoods. And then we had, of course, these huge rainstorms in the Baton Rouge area last year that inundated over 140,000 homes. So I mean these are all record-breaking storms. They’re 100 year storms or 500 year storms, as they call them. So they're not supposed to happen very often. But the fact is, climate change is bringing more extreme precipitation and more extreme weather events. I mean scientists are remiss to connect a certain event with climate change, but we are seeing more extreme weather across the country and world.

RB: So it was freak weather. It was a record setting downpour. But that wasn't the only problem, as residents came to understand in the days following this flooding. And the other problem was, I guess, the sewers and the way it was being able to be handled in terms of capacity?

TW: Yeah, the system of getting water through the pipes and out using these big pumps that we've put in since Katrina. You know, it's a huge infrastructure project that cost billions of dollars. And the agency that is responsible for operating at the Sewerage and Water Board, they made a public statement during the flood this last weekend that all of the pumps were up and running. It was just so much water that they were inundated and they couldn't handle it. But then City Council held a meeting to ask for or explanation about it because people were so outraged by how extreme the flooding was and how much damage there was. And it became clear that not all of the pumps were on. Instead of having all 121 on, 14 were actually off at the time. So that was part of the reason. And there could also be some maintenance issues as well.

RB: So what do you think that says then about whether the city has learned lessons? Because this was just like you know freak weather, but if there was another hurricane it doesn't sound like the city is really ready necessarily?

TW: You know, as someone who lives here and who has reported on this, you know seeing that now the mayor is calling for the resignation of a number of these officials. You know, from my perspective, it seems like you can fix all the pumps and you can build the fanciest infrastructure system in the world. But if you don't have the right people running it, you might still continue to have problems. Or if you don't invest in maintenance, that's a really big issue. It's like you can build them, but if you're not going to continue to clear out the drains so that the water can get through, you're going to have problems that way too. But you know we have this big capital improvement project with $2 billion from FEMA — the Federal Emergency Management Agency — to redo our roads. And we're using the same approach that we've been using this whole time, which is asphalt and the same kind of pipes and you know pumping the water out. Instead of finding new creative ways to live with the fact that we are in this very wet place. So I don't know how that bodes for our future either?

RB: Do you think that people, after experiencing this, might have less confidence in the city because you know, as you say, there's all this money being pumped in and, yet, it doesn't seem to be able to handle just a weather flood?

TW: Well, that's certainly what the mayor is concerned about and what the city councillors are concerned about too based on what they've heard from their constituents. But you know I'm not sure that people who have lived here for a long time have a lot of faith in the city as it is. And I mean he's outgoing now, but Mayor Mitch Landrieu has probably increased some public trust. But, you know, it's a tough place to live. It's a place of a lot of uncertainty.

RB: OK, Tegan Wendland thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

TW: Thanks for having me.

RD: Tegan Wendland is an environmental reporter with WWNO, an NPR station in New Orleans. That's where we reached her. And we’ve posted some photos of the flooding along with the interview on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih

[Music: Ambient]

Carla del Ponte

Guest: Carla del Ponte

RD: In 2012, the former war crimes prosecutor Carla del Ponte joined the U.N. commission of inquiry investigating human rights abuses in Syria. She was a significant addition, having risen to prominence for her work investigating war crimes and abuses in the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda. Now, she has a significant subtraction. This week, del Ponte resigned from the commission, saying investigative panel was, quote, “going nowhere.” We reached Carla del Ponte in Geneva.

RB: Ms. del Ponte, tell us why you've resigned from this U.N. panel investigating abuses or potential war crimes in Syria?

CARLA DEL PONTE: Because the commission has done the work which it was entitled to do so through the mandate of the Council of the Human Rights: The initial investigation about violation of human rights, committing of crimes against humanity and war crimes in the conflict in Syria. So we have done that and we have been doing that since seven years, but further, nothing happened. So I am a former prosecutor, I am expecting that it can be further investigate not only the initial investigation, but to collect enough evidence to prepare an indictment and be ready to go in court with high political and military responsibility. Myself and the other commissioners have tried to purse the Security Council to institute an international tribunal or defer it to the permanent court. But the Security Council has done nothing.

RB: And this is because the Security Council, whenever it tries to do anything on Syria, is perpetually blocked by Russia and China.

CDP: Yes, particularly the veto right of Russia, yes. It is a protest on my side because the commission becomes an alibi for the Security Council: Doing nothing, but doing something.

RB: Tell people what kinds of evidence you have seen that would support a war crime prosecution.

CDP: First, you investigate the commission for a crime: The killing of civilians, the torture of civilians and so on and so on. But after, you must collect evidence about the perpetrators and through the witness investigation documents and on and so on.

RB: You are known for the work that you did as a prosecutor for crimes in the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda, very different kinds of conflicts. And, of course, the conflict in Syria is ongoing. How is it different than what you've done before?

CDP: My personal opinion is that the crimes that are committed in Syria are more and more cruel and more ferocious. Because, for example, the torture from the detainees, they are doing a sort of torture that I never saw in other cases. Or the killing of children, that is incredible. Or torture of children and the killing of women. No respect for human life that is what I never saw in the other cases.

RB: Would you say it’s worse than Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia?

CDP: Yes, it is. In my view it is. The quality of the crimes are worse than in the other cases.

RB: given that and the people of Syria feel abandoned, do you not feel that it is perhaps the wrong thing to do to walk away from this?

CDP: I hope not. I hope not, particularly for the Syrians. I hope they will understand that this commission had done a good work at the beginning and in the first years. But now, nothing is being done further to obtain justice for the victims. So I’m ready to go back to the tribunal to be prosecutor of the Syria tribunal. But not to stay in the commission and look at how the international community is doing nothing to obtain justice for the victims.

RB: Do you really think that by leaving it will have any impact, given how long this conflict has gone on and how difficult it needs to be for the world to solve?

CDP: It would be great if my provocation would coax a positive reaction. But who knows? It is for my conscience that I quit this commission.

RB: What do you think is going to happen in Syria? As I say, it is it is ongoing there.

CDP: But Syria must try to achieve peace. And in the former Yugoslavia, it was the United States that acted to obtain peace. Here, it must be Russia who have the primary roll to peace. We will see, we hope, finally peace for the poor Syrians.

RB: The problem with the conflict in Syria is that, and certainly you seem to have suggested this, is that there are no good guys there. So how difficult will the prosecution be?

CDP: Well, the only real problem for a Syria tribunal is so many cases. Because it incurred about seven years of crimes and different parties are involved in the committing of crimes. Don't forget the Yugoslavia tribunal after one year and the conflict was ongoing and the Security Council adopted the resolution for an international tribunal. That was fantastic because justice is a real contribution for peace. Only justice, you can obtain earlier peace. So all that is no more in existence — these principles — that were, at that time, for the tribunal for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda tribunal. Syria peace today has total impunity. What a pity.

RB: So you do not feel that you are turning your back on Syria by doing this?

CDP: No, absolutely not. I am ready to go back. But I want to have the instruments to be able to obtain justice. Not just to sit in an office and look outside what happened and make a list of crimes. I was a former prosecutor, so I want to go back as prosecute.

RB: Ms. del Ponte, thank you.

CDP: Thank you.

RB: Nice to speak with you.

CDP: Have a nice evening.

RD: Carla del Ponte is a former war crimes prosecutor for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia. This week, she resigned from the U.N. commission of inquiry investigating abuses in Syria. We reached Carla del Ponte in Geneva. And you can find more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Orchestral]

Track coach

Guest: Richard Parkinson

RD: Tonight, Britney Crew became the first Canadian woman to make the shot put final at the World Track and Field Championships. But as she made history, her coach Richard Parkinson, wasn't by Ms. Crew’s side. He was watching her from his hotel room. Mr. Parkinson has been quarantined with the norovirus that has struck nine members of the Canadian team. But he still took a hands-on approach, figuratively speaking. He came up with an elaborate plan to coach Ms. Crew from afar. And we reached Richard Parkinson earlier today, before the women's shot put final, in his hotel room in London.

RB: So Mr. Parkinson, wow are you feeling? Let's start with that.

RICHARD PARKISON: I feel good, thank you. Just a little frustrated that I can't be in a stadium and a little boxed-in. I'm tired of staying in the hotel room.

RB: So did you sort of put yourself on quarantine? Do you know whether you had the virus? What made you feel like you had to do this?

RP: Well, in England, you have to do what the English do and so I went and had some good-old-English-style-fish-and-chips that I'm not sure sat with me well or if I had some of the symptoms of the virus? Knowing that the virus was going around, I debated it in my head did I call the doctor or not? But did the responsible thing, knowing some of the consequences that I may faced. But I didn't want to be responsible for getting anybody ill, especially with the athletes have put so much time and so much work into this. So I didn't want to be responsible for getting anybody ill if I had the virus or not. So did I? I don't know. I had some symptoms, but I didn't have some of the violent symptoms or some of the severe symptoms that some of the other people had.

RB: How long have you been coaching your athlete, Brittany Crew?

RP: Brittany Crew, I've been coaching Brittany for four years now — this was our fourth year together.

RB: So the fact that you won't be there tonight, is that going to be hard for you?

RP: Oh, absolutely. You know, so Britney is a very young thrower. And she made the Olympic team last year and I was the Olympic throws coach last year, as I'm the team coach here this year. Yeah, it's tough. Any time you miss a competition it's tough, but when you make something at this level it's even tougher. And this is the first time in my knowledge that a woman has made the shot put final at the World Championships. We've had women make the final at the Olympics, but not in last… I’m going to say 50-60 years.

RB: How did she take the news that you weren't going to be there?

RP: You know what? Better than I thought she would and maybe better than I took it. But you know, we have a good coaching staff around us and we talked about it first and realized you know this could be sensitive. It could go one way or the other. And we approached her with the sensitivity that it needed. And we sat and chatted and, you know, rationally she understands that it’s something that you know happens and it can't be helped. And, at the end of the day, I can't throw the shot for her. So she has to do it anyway. So would it be nice for me to be there on her side? Yeah, but you know what? I said to somebody else she's got 60,000 other people yelling and screaming for her too.

RB: So you're not going to be there physically to coach her, but you have made arrangements to be able to coach her anyway. Pretty elaborate arrangements. Tell me about them?

RP: Well, it's a modern age… it's actually kind of MacGyver-ish, if you will. We have our Dana Way, or bio-mechanist, he is going to be videotaping with his high speed camera. He's there throughout the stadium, videotaping a number of events for either technical reasons or for rule violations and things like that. So he's going to find a way get a good, clear view of Britney throwing and he will play that back on the camera in slow motion. While he's playing it back in slow motion, he'll record it with his phone, send that video to me and my phone, I'll be able to see it and analyze it and then I'll text our Canadian male shot putter, who is down in the stands in the coaching box. I'll text him my thoughts and any coaching cues I think he needs to give her.

RB: What kind of things might you say to her over text?

RP: You know, quite frankly, tonight it's going to be a little different because of the rain that they're having down there. So I may be just telling Tim: make sure she's going to go slow out of the back, so she's not going to go too fast. And tonight, it's all about setting up the throw out of the back circle because it could be very wet, so just some small technical cues. The other night, she started out OK at 1742. Then, her second throw I didn't like and I saw that she was standing up too early in the throw. And her head was leading the hips. So if the head leads, the body will follow. So I want the throw to come up from the ground up. The hips lead the shoulders. So one little trick we have is we put a towel or jacket at the back of the circle and try to have her visually pick that up with her eyes. And it just delays the head a fraction of a second. So that allowed her to stay down a little bit longer on the ground and turn the hips before the head turned and she threw the 1801, which actually advanced her to tonight's final.

RB: So, even if you're not going to be there, how special is it? As you say, you think it's the only time that this has happened.

RP: Yeah, it’s very, very special. Even if it was a regular occurrence, this is something very, very special for her. 23-years-of-age making the World Championship Final, she's ranked 12^th in the world. She's now eighth tonight coming into the final. So what we'd like her to do is maintain that position in top eight. Anything beyond that, at this point in time, looking at the pathway to the podium for 2020, is all gravy.

RB: What have you been doing in your self-imposed quarantine then?

RP: I’ve actually started planning for 2018.

[Sound: RB laughs]

RP: And I have outlaid the training plans for Commonwealth Games, I already know the training camp dates, so I just started doing our yearly plan.

RB: I thought you were going to say you watch Netflix.

RP: No. No.

RB: OK. Well listen, it sounds like you're going to do everything you can, including keeping yourself locked up, to help Britney tonight. So, good luck.

RP: Thank you very much.

RB: Thanks and we'll talk again. Feel better.

RP: All right thanks, very much.

RB: Nice to meet you. Bye bye.

RP: Bye.

RD: That was Richard Parkinson, watching from afar. A throws coach for Team Canada. He spoke with us earlier today from his hotel room in London, England. After our conversation, Brittany Crew, whom Mr. Parkinson coached from afar, finished sixth in the woman’s shot put final at the World Track and Field Championships.

[Music: Jazz]

Sigmund Sobolewski obit

RD: He was the 88th prisoner to walk to the gates of Auschwitz. Canadian Holocaust survivor Sigmund Sobolewski was a teenager when he was sent to the Nazi concentration camp. He was held there for four-and-a-half-years. After the Second World War, the Polish-born, Catholic survivor came to Canada and became a vocal opponent of neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers. Mr. Sobolewski died Monday. He was 94-years-old. In 1989, He spoke to As It Happens host Dale Goldhawk about how he was first taken back.

SOUNDCLIP

SIGMUND SOBOLEWSKI: They came to arrest my father, who was a captain in the Polish Army. My father was dying at that time of cancer. So they left him and they picked up me and my mother. When I arrived, Auschwitz did not exist and we were kept in an old army warehouse and still wearing civilian clothes. In the beginning, we did not work for the first the weeks. We were just being treated, more or less, like military recruits. We were marching around, running and I considered it a big jog. The the jogs were becoming further and further and then I could see the first people dying. And then I could see the first people that were beaten.

DALE GOLDHAWK: How did you finally get out of Auschwitz?

SS; I got out of Auschwitz by being transferred to another camp near Berlin. And then when the Russians attacked Berlin, we were again moved and liberated by Americans on the 5^th of May, 1945.

DG: And through all the years since then, this has remained a very vivid memory for you.

SS: Not only that. All of us have also a certain feeling of guilt. Guilt that how is that we survived and the others died, you know? There isn’t a day; there isn’t a fraction of a second that I don’t remember the camp.

RD: That was Sigmund Sobolewski speaking with As It Happens in 1989. He died yesterday. He was 94-years-old. And you could find a longer version of that interview, along with photos, on our website:www.cbc.ca/aih.

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August 9, 2017 episode transcript

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