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The AIH Transcript for August 4, 2017

Hosts: Rosemary Barton and Robert Doane

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

ROSEMARY BARTON: Hello. I'm Rosemary Barton, sitting in for Carol Off.

ROBERT DOANE: And I'm Robert Doane, sitting in for Jeff Douglass. Coming up on As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

RD: Tonight:

RB: Twice burned. His family lost one house to the Fort Mac wildfires. Now, a second has been burned to the ground by the blazes in B.C. But Jason Schurman says he isn't shying away from the challenge.

RD: Love's Labour won. Florence Richler remembers her friend Jack Rabinovitch, the millionaire sponsor of Canadian Letters, who created the Giller Prize.

RB: Driven from distraction. A U.S. congresswoman introduces a bill that would order car companies to install sensors alerting parents if they've forgotten their kid in the back of a hot car.

RD: A leaf from Moishe’s book. An Austrian architect says Moshe Safdie’s Habitat 67 building in Montreal inspired his new tree-like tower that he wants to build in Toronto.

RB: Title bore. A BBC's presenter’s less-than-impressive delivery of a story about surfing dogs, leaves viewers wondering why he didn't just wave the whole thing off?

RD: And… chirp off the old block. A Norwegian scientist can't wait to uncover the secrets inside of 4,200-year-old bird that was found, almost perfectly preserved, melting next to some stone-aged ice. As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio where the early bird catches the warmth.

[Music: Theme]

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Part 1: Destroyed homes, Jack Rabinovitch obit, old thrush

Destroyed homes

Guest: Jason Schurman

RD: In April 2016, Jason Schurman had two homes in two different provinces. Now, both have gone up in flames. The first was destroyed in the Fort Mac wildfire in May of 2016. Last month, Mr. Schurman discovered that wildfires B.C. had consumed his place near Williams Lake. We reached Jason Schurman in Fort McMurray, Alberta.

RB: Mr. Schurman, let me start by asking you how you found out that the cabin in British Columbia had been destroyed?

JASON SCHURMAN: We were renting out our house in B.C. And, obviously, I'd heard about the fires in the news. And our tenant actually texted me, I was actually on my way to work. And I got the message that he had heard from one of the forestry officials that our house had burned down. Up until that point, I didn't actually have any actual, concrete visual. And that was one of the things that I found different from losing our house in Fort McMurray. In Fort McMurry, there was a constant drip of information coming through the media, satellite photos and those types of things. So we had a pretty good idea what was going on. Where is this time, yeah, it was completely in the dark, right?

RB: So what did it mean to you — that place?

JS: The house that I bought, I bought that before I met my wife. It is a 100-kilometers out of town, so it's fairly secluded and it was good for me prior to when I met my wife. But once she was pregnant with our first child, being you know 100-kilometers away from the closest hospital is not ideal.

RB: No.

JS: So we looked at what our options were at that point and that's what I looked at actually moving to Fort McMurray and taking a job that was a little bit more stability. It required a move to Fort McMurray, so our son spent his first year in that house. And I loved it like that was my dream I was in terms of having a log house, I've always wanted one. You know I'd had you know a million-dollar-view of a glacier-fed river and it's kind of on top of a canyon. So it had all the things that that I always wanted in a house.

RB: You posted a couple of pictures of both the homes that you that you lost. And you noticed something sort of similar in the two photos. What did you see?

JS: The first thing I seen when I seen both properties for that matter was the fact that everything was gone, which was wow, like that's insane that there's absolutely nothing left. And then I noticed except for the chimney. The chimneys were the only thing that were left standing in both structures — both houses — and you think you'd be prepared for it once you know somebody has told you your house burned down and then they send you pictures. No, not even close. It's something that gives you a sinking feeling in your stomach almost. And yeah, it's a lot to digest.

RB: Well, do you feel like… I don't know… I can't imagine either. I mean I can imagine that the sadness in losing one house, but losing two! Tell me how you're how you're coping with all that?

JS: It's funny that you ask that because I've found a lot of support from friends and family, obviously, and coworkers and bosses. What I have noticed though is initially they don't they don't actually say anything. I don't think they know how to approach the subject, so they just go about it and they act normal. And then that starts to make me wonder if maybe I'm like you know losing my mind because I don’t find this to be a normal situation, but everybody's treating me normal. And so I'll bring up the topic and you know what? That’s in a way kind of therapeutic. It helps me process it a little bit more and to get other people's thoughts on anything and confirmation that you know I'm not going crazy for sure.

RB: And financially, what has it done for you and your family? I imagine you had some sort of insurance?

JS: Yeah, we had insurance on both. I really shouldn't have the comprehension that I have on reading insurance policies now. But these are massive decisions from a financial perspective that you're making. And more so during the first fire, what I found was we had everything: all our pictures, we had everything we owned in that house. So when you lose it, it brings up a lot of emotions. And just days later, you're making massive financial decisions while you're still in that emotional state.

RB: You said you had a little guy. He’s six, I guess?

JS: Yeah, he's six now.

RB: How’s he doing?

JS: Good. Good. We've kind of kept him away from this particular most recent fire just because he's settled into a new school in Edmonton now. And the “fire talk”, quote/unquote, has subsided and he's blending in and coming back. Things are back to normal for him now.

RB: Good.

JS: And the last thing we want to do is kind of you know bring up the second fire. So my wife and I just wait till you know he’s in bed or he's not around where we discussed the second fire.

RB: Are you going to rebuild in either place? Have you thought about that, or is it too soon?

JS: Honestly, like the second home — the log house — I don't even know where we're at with that because it's so new. In these types of situations, you're economically vulnerable. You're at the mercy of whatever the insurance company is at.

RB: Tell me Mr. Schurman, do you feel unlucky or doubly unlucky?

JS: You know, I’ve had a few friends who’ve said something they kind of clicked with me, which was if you couldn't handle this then it probably wouldn't be set in your lap or put in your path. And I've kind of just kept telling myself that. You know, I if I couldn't deal with this or manage it in an effective way then it wouldn't be in my path. Do I feel unlucky? Absolutely this past year-and-a-half, going on two years. But I also look at it from the perspective that there are some benefits or positives that can be pulled out of this. I mean most definitely for my wife and my family is our little guy, it’s definitely brought us closer together. You have to work in unison and together to get things accomplished. So there are some benefits and that's kind of what I look at is what positives can actually pull out of these I guess horrible circumstances, right?

RB: Well, that sounds like a good attitude.

JS: It's pretty much the only one that you can really have. I mean it's hard to look at it any other way because it would get pretty depressing if you don't look at the positives, right?

RB: Yeah, it sounds awfully Canadian.

JS: Yeah, absolutely.

RB: All right. Well, I wish you lots of luck and to your wife and your son too. Thanks for telling us about it. And good luck with whatever decision you make.

JS: Absolutely. Thank you so much.

RB: Thank you. Bye bye.

JS: Have a good day.

RD: That was Jason Schurman. He's lost two homes to wildfires: one last year in Fort McMurray and one this summer in B.C. We reached him in Fort McMurray, Alberta.

[Music: Sad instruments]

Jack Rabinovitch obit

Guest: Florence Richler

RD: He was not a writer, or a publisher, or editor, but Jack Rabinovitch was an icon of Canadian literature. The Montreal businessman founded the Giller Prize in 1994, to honor his late wife, Doris Giller. Mr. Rabinovitch died yesterday. He was 87. The writer Mordecai Richler helped create the Giller Prize. His widow, Florence Richler, was a close friend of Mr. Rabinovitch’s. We reached Florence Richler in Toronto.

RB: Florence Richler, I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend, Jack Rabinovitch.

FLORENCE RICHLER: Yes, we are all profoundly saddened by it.

RB: Tell me how you two met?

FR: Well, of course, through Mordecai. They were school chums when they were teenagers and then formed a friendship later, which lasted until Mordecai's demise.

RB: And did Mr. Rabinovitch, did he always have an interest in in novels and in writing?

FR: Yes, a serious interest and Doris, of course, was the literary editor of The Gazette. And then came to Toronto with him and worked here as well. So yes, the interest was, yes, a very serious one.

RB: And after his wife Doris died, he wanted to commemorate his wife.

FR: Yes.

RB: What do you remember about what you or your husband uncovered about why he wanted to do it this way?

FR: Well, he was of course quite distraught after Doris's death and so were all the close friends and family. And he was well aware that Doris would probably have enjoyed a literary prize, perhaps for journalists, perhaps for short story writers and I think it was Mordecai's suggestion that he do it for novelists. I think he was partisan.

[Sound: RB and FR share a chuckle]

RB: And when they came up with the idea, what was behind the idea? What were they hoping to do, other than commemorate Doris?

FR: Well, mainly to commemorate Doris. Also, then Mordecai introduced Professor Staines, which was, of course, a perfect choice and then to Alice Munro, who Mordecai had admired from the very first indication of her grand talent, long before she was being read by everyone. So these were the first judges. And wasn't it excellent?

RB: And from what I've read, Mr. Rabinovitch sort of used these awards — this gala — every year as a big party that he also loved and enjoyed.

FR: Oh yes, he was quite gregarious. Most of all, I recall that from the beginning he was inordinately generous. Not only to his judges and the authors, but the hundreds of people that he invited every year. There was a cocktail party, generous amount of wine and food and a formal dining room. The whole thing was rather grand and he continued to do so year-after-year. It was most admirable.

RB: I understand he often said at the event that for the price of a dinner in this town you can buy all the nominated books, so eat at home and buy the books.

FR: Exactly. Well, I think he has a delightful sense of humor and also being such a good business man, the timing was absolutely perfect, of course.

RB: What did it mean to you and to your husband, Mordecai, when he won The Giller in 1997, for Barney’s Version?

FR: Well, some of us thought it was inevitable.

RB: Your husband for one.

[Sound: RB and FR share another giggle]

FR: But we were very proud. Yes, very proud.

RB: Well, it must have had special meaning because he had been behind the creation of it too?

FR: Yes, exactly. And it was rather wonderful that so much attention was being paid to Canadian writers. And, as you know very well, that has not always been so. Jack's contribution is quite gargantuan.

RB: When was the last time you saw Jack Rabinovitch?

FR: Well, Jack and I were to have had lunch on Saturday. Sadly, it didn't happen. We were in touch regularly. He really was very loyal and an attentive friend. There was always a call to find out were you coping? Was there anything you needed? Even if it were a loaf of bread, he would drive over and bring it to me. Being visually impaired, it was difficult for me to get out and shop on my own and he was the most thoughtful and generous and unobtrusive friend.

RB: And do you think the fact that both of you had lost your partners…

FR: Yes, yes. And with little need to talk about it. We both shared this very deep sadness.

RB: When Mordecai was alive and Doris was alive, did the four of you get up to trouble at all?

FR: There was no jail sentence

[Sound: RB and FR laugh a lot]

FR: But we could be mischievous, yes.

RB: You know, as we've talked about him, he created that prize as a tribute to his wife, who he so adored. What would be a good tribute to him going forward?

FR: Well, I'm told that all the newspaper tributes have been rather splendid. I know what I would do except continue to appreciate and advertise how fine and loyal and loving a friend he was, not just to me. Obviously, to all of us who were close to him. We were very touched by how wise a manner it was to have been so lavish of writers. And, of course, as Bob Rae mentioned, his great contribution to St. Margret’s Hospital here. He'll be sorely missed.

RB: Florence Richler, it was so nice to speak with you about your friend, Jack Rabinovitch. And again, my condolences.

FR: Thank you so very much.

RB: Thank you.

FR: Goodbye.

RB: Bye bye.

RD: We reached Florence Richler in Toronto. Her friend Jack Rabinovitch, the founder of The Giller Prize died yesterday. He was 87. You can find that interview on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih

[Music: Folk]

BBC presenter

RD: It's not always easy for news presenters to feign enthusiasm for the stories on their teleprompters, especially if it's a slow news day. But a BBC host’s reading of a report about dog surfing this morning was so lackluster that it's gone viral. Listen to Simon McCoy as he makes his way through this story.

SOUNDCLIP

SIMON MCCOY: You're watching BBC News. Just bear in mind it is August. This does not look like a walk in the park, dog owners and their pets in California have hit the waves in the second annual World Dog Surfing Championships. Here are the pictures.

[Sound: Surfing music]

SPEAKER: There’s also style, there's confidence, there is the size of the wave. Because some events have been really big waves, some have very small waves. There's a lot of style and techniques. It’s really interesting.

SM: The competitors’ main challenge is to stay afloat on the board. This is in Pacifica, near San Francisco. But there are also prizes for the “best dressed” and” tandem surfing dogs”. Winner, of course, being crowned “top dog”. That's a shame; we've run out of pitches.

RDThe BBC's Simon McCoy. This is not the first time a reading by the veteran presenter have grabbed people's attention. In 2013, when he was covering the birth of the royal baby Prince George, he famously told his viewers, quote, “Plenty more to come from here… none of it news.”

[Music: Pop rock]

Old Thrush

Guest: Jorgen Rosvold

RD: The red-wing thursh is a pretty common sight in Norway. Folks see the birds in parks and in Norway's forest, but they usually aren't 4,200-years-old. But that's the age of a thrush found alongside a snowbank in Norway's Oppdal Mountains. Jorgen Rosvold is a researcher who dissected the ancient bird. We reached him in Skatval, Norway.

RB: Mr. Rosvold, what does a bird this old look like?

JORGEN ROSVOLD: That's a good question. Usually, when you think about such an old bird, you think it's just all bones or almost nothing at all. So this was very exciting that it looks almost fresh. It looks like it died just yesterday or a few weeks ago and it's actually it's over 4,000-years-old.

RB: It actually looks stuffed when you look at the picture. It looks like it's been preserved?

JR: Yeah, it does. It looks fresh. It’s got all its colours still intact and all its inner organs are still there.

RB: Wow.

JR: It’s quite unique.

RB: So when you initially saw it, you didn't think it was more than 4000-years-old?

JR: No. I would have thought it was maximum maybe 200-years-old or something like that.

RB: So young!

JR: More likely just from the same year.

RB: So how did you figure out that you were dealing with something just incredible?

JR: We took some of the feathers and sent it to a radiocarbon lab and they're able to measure quite precisely the age of the bird within a plus/minus of 50 years or so.

RB: So the bird has feathers still?

JR: Yes. Almost all of the feathers are still intact and all of the colours as well.

RB: And why is that?

JR: The bird must have been buried in snow and ice quite quickly after it died. And it's been stored in glacier ice for over 4,000 years.

RB: So once you realized how old the bird was, what went through your head?

JR: First, I had to call the lab and just check if they were correct with age because I didn't think it could be that old. But it was correct and that's just fabulous. I’ve never tried to date anything that looked that young before. So it might be that there are even more animals that are of that age as well.

RB: So why does it matter? Tell me why this is of particular interest to you?

JR: The best thing about this bird is that it's so well-preserved given the age it has. That means we can study a lot of the biology and the history of the bird and can compare the birds that essentially lived in the Stone Age in Norway with birds that are living here today. They kind of get the effect of pollution and they can look at the DNA and see if it changed a lot. They can look at the diet of the bird and they can look at parasites and diseases possibly. That's quite a treasure.

RB: You've opened the bird up now. You've dissected it, have you?

JR: Yeah, we dissected it last week. Just to just to see if there was anything at all inside it or is it just a big porridge of the rotted intestines. Everything was intact inside. We can take out the heart, we can take out the lungs, take out the kidneys and even the intestines in one piece.

RB: So that also surprised you?

JR: Yeah, that was a big surprise as well because these things start to rot quite quickly it's when lying outside in the sunshine and in the water.

RB: Do you now think maybe you should go back to this glacier and dig around a bit?

JR: We have a lot of sites that we visit every year. And, usually, we collect all of the bones. There are quite a lot the reindeer bones that lay around this ice patch. So we go there every year and collect whatever we find. But this year seems to be a bad year for collecting things because there’s a lot of snow in the mountains here.

RB: Do you think there might be other animals preserved like this though?

JR: Yes, quite possibly because so many so many years, when you go to visit these ice patches, there are small mummified lemmings and rodents that are all over the ice patch. They haven't talked about collecting them before because these were young animals, probably from the year before or not that old. But now, we have the incentive to collect everything we see because it can be can be 4,000-years-old, or even older.

RB: What will it be able to tell you about Norway in the Stone Age do you think? What is your hope that it will be able to help you understand?

JR: I big hope still is that we might find some parasites or diseases in the bird that can tell something about how this species has changed through time. That might be important in and the health of animals today as well because almost no ancient diseases or parasites are preserved. So if we can find something like that on the bird, that's really quite fantastic.

RB: What have you already seen from inside the bird that you've been able to draw conclusions from?

JR: This far, we've only looked at what’s preserved inside. We can see that the bird had a lot of fat inside it. The bird was in quite good condition when it died. It was not a old and diseased bird in poor health when it died. It died in quite good condition, so we're wondering why it ended up on the ice at all? It might be it was captured by some kind of alpha predator, a fox or a wolverine or something like that.

RB: And what happens to it now? Do you just keep it and keep trying to find information and hidden clues? Do you put it somewhere in a museum? What happens to it?

JR: No, we’re going to sample some DNA from the bird. And later, we’re going to dissect the intestines and the stomach and see if we can find some of the food contents that the bird ate just before it died. We might take some samples from the liver as well because that it's good to compare the pollution today because that is stored in the livers.

RB: Thank you Mr. Rosvold. Good luck with the tests. And good luck with uncovering the mystery.

JR: Thanks a lot.

RB: Thank you.

RD: Jorgen Rosvold is a researcher at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology. He was in Skatval, Norway. For more on this story, including pictures of the 4,200-year-old bird, head over to: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Folk]

Sarcastic algorithm

RD: Well, this is ironic. And I'm not being ironic when I say that. Scientists at MIT have developed an algorithm that can understand irony and understands it better than humans. The algorithm is called DeepMoji and, as the name suggests, it gets its mojo from emojis. It began by digesting 55-billion tweets. But tweets are tough for machines to understand, especially ironic ones. Without a wink or a nudge or an ironic tone, how’s a computer supposed to know that your meaning is the opposite of what your words literally say? That's where the emojis came in. The pictograms are often tipoffs to a tweeters true meeting. So after billions of computations, a team put the algorithm head-to-head against some human volunteers. The machine picked out the irony 82 per cent of the time compared to the human 76 per cent, which is great except for Gary King's critique. Professor King is the director of a Harvard Institute that studies this sort of thing he says that, quote, “If the sarcasm is so nuanced that a human reader would likely miss it, then it really doesn't matter.” Unquote. Either way, if there's a message that leaves you in a ball of confusion, you can feed into the algorithm at the project's website. That’s: www.deepmoji.mit.ed.

Back To Top »

Part 2: Kid in car warning, Toronto Tree Tower

Kid in car warning

Guest: Jan Schakowsky

RD: The year is not over and already 30 children have died in the United States, after being left unattended in a car in the sweltering heat. Those who have dug into the stories behind the numbers say that it can happen to almost any parent who's distracted or out of their usual routine. But a new bill is before the U.S. Congress. It’s aimed at reducing the number of child deaths in cars using technology. Jan Schakowsky is the co-sponsor of the bill. We reached her in Chicago.

RB: Congresswoman Schakowsky, how could a car prevent a parent from leaving their kid behind in the car?

JAN SCHAKOWSKY: Oh, we have so many technologies. I know the car that I'm driving now will tell me if I walk out of my car and the keys are in the car. We have bells and whistles for all kinds of things. And so the notion of a car being able to alert you to something of a weight or somebody breathing, even slightly as an infant might, in the backseat of a car or telling you to check back there because you opened the back door before you got into the car. That can be very, very simple. And so I think you know technology certainly can help us in our busy, multitasking lives not to forget. And, of course, it’s a tragedy every time it happens.

RB: Was there a particular story that came to you or that was brought to you and you thought I've got to try and do something about this?

JS: The advocacy groups came to me and told me that since 1990, 800 children have died from heat stroke in hot cars. And that you know we could actually prevent at least most, if not all, of those deaths.

RB: Why not just educate? Why not try and make parents or people driving little kids around more aware?

JS: You know, actually, there's some brain science that tells us that if you have been in a routine, but today, out of cycle, it's your turn to drop your baby off at childcare. And you're kind of preoccupied, as many of us are, with a lot of things. And even the most loving and careful parent, their brain can go into a kind of mode that will take them right to work. And we heard one of those horrible stories from a from a father, who at the end of the day — about five o'clock — got a call did you leave a doll in your car? And he goes what are you talking about? And then it was the “oh, my God moment”. And sure enough, his 21-month-old was dead in that car and he had forgotten to stop at daycare.

RB: And I guess the thing with infants — with children — is it doesn't take long in a hot car, doesn't it?

JS: It certainly doesn't. I think one of the misunderstandings — and people should never, ever knowingly leave children in a closed and locked car — is how fast that temperature can go up. You know this is not a matter of hours. It can be actually a matter of minutes before that car is too hot for anybody to occupy.

RB: You know we've all heard these stories, but you think well that would never happen to me. I would never forget my child. What do you say to those people?

JS: It would never happen until it does. These parents often are accused of, or even tried for manslaughter. One of the mothers who came to our press conference actually was charged with murder. But you know it does happen. And in the majority of those cases, these are parents who you know take good care of their children, are involved parents and it's just one of the horrible, horrible human errors in life that can occur and doesn't need to. We don't prescribe an exact technology. But if there's some kind of an alarm — some kind of warning — that would alert a parent to look you know even that parent might think oh, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have forgotten my kid. You know that just couldn't happen. But it can and it does. There's about 30 children this year alone, which is more than all of last year already that have died in cars. And our weather is getting hotter and it seems, at least for this year, it's happening more.

RB: What about the idea of some sort of app or something that's built into the car seat rather than the car? Would that not be easier to get in place and easier for parents to do because they wouldn't have to wait on the car manufacturers?

JS: Well, we have heard about that and some of the organizations are talking to the car seat manufacturers to see if that's possible. In the meantime, we want this legislation to go in place. And you're right, although, some cars already have that. General Motors has some of their cars that have this technology. And it will be required in all new cars in four years, which is a while.

RB: What does this tell you about sort of where society is at? You know, as we try to manage a million things at once. What goes through your head when you think about that? You talk about multitasking and from the stories I've read, it seems to happen to all kinds of different parents, doesn't matter where they're from or what they do.

JS: Kids have been dying in hot cars for a long time. As I said, you know we have records from about 1990, so that's a while. I don't think it's necessarily something that has just snuck up on us in our very busy lives right now. It may be exacerbated by the multitude of things that we're dealing with at once. But it certainly isn't a new phenomenon. I think that our lives are very complicated, it's just a fact. And technology can help us address the problems that are caused by that.

RB: Do you do you think the bill will pass? Do you have bipartisan support?

JS: I do feel that way. I think we have very strong bipartisan support. It came out of the Energy and Commerce Committee unanimously as part of a larger bill dealing with autonomous vehicles. And I think the Congress — certainly the majority — is anxious to get that framework passed for autonomous vehicles. So I'm very optimistic that on a bipartisan basis that this legislation certainly — if not the entire bill — is going to become law.

RB: Congresswoman, thanks for making the time today. I appreciate it.

JS: It's my pleasure. Thank you for doing this.

RB: Thanks. Bye bye.

RD: We reached Democratic Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky in Chicago.

[Music: Chancellor by Gord Downie/ Rock]

Cop buys suit

RD: The thief was caught red-handed. Security officers at a WalMart in Toronto stopped an 18-year-old trying to walk out of the store with a suit and tie. They called the local police. But when the officers got there, they did something unexpected. Here's Toronto Constable Niran Jeyanesan speaking to CP 24 reporter Christina Tenaglia about what happened.

SOUNDCLIP

NIRAN JEYANESAN: After having a conversation with him, it came to light that he had stolen it. He has taken the items because he had a job interview. The items that he had taken was a dress shirt and a tie. He had a job interview Tuesday with the service industry and this young person has been facing his own difficulty in life. He was looking to straighten all that by providing for his family, trying to get him a job and I went and got the shirt and the tie for this individual. After, when he was released, it was given back to him, so that he can attend that job interview. People do things for wrong reasons. I mean this this individual didn't have any resources to go about how he went about it. And he stole those items because he wanted a second chance in life. And definitely, not as a police officer, we weren’t going to stand between him and a second chance.

CHRISTINA TENAGLIA: He doesn't know that you did this for him?

NJ: No, no. Not at that moment, no.

RD: That was Toronto police officer Niran Jeyanesan speaking to CP 24 reporter Christina Tenaglia about his decision to buy a suit and tie for a young man who had attempted to shoplift them for a job interview.

[Music: Movie soundtrack]

From Our Archives: Dershowitz on Zundel

RD: Ernst Zundel spent most of his life denying that millions of death had ever occurred. Now, German officials have confirmed Mr. Zundel’s death, at the age of 78. Mr Zundel lived in Canada for decades. CSIS, the intelligence service, said he was, quote, “considered one of the most notorious distributors of hate material in the world”. And that was in 2003. Two years later, a federal court ruled that Mr. Zundel was a threat to national security, a decision which led to his extradition to Germany. He was convicted there for incitement of racial hatred and sentenced to the maximum five years in prison. In 1985, Mr. Zundel was convicted in Canada of spreading false news for publishing a pamphlet entitled “Did Six Million Really Die? The Truth At Last”. The Supreme Court ultimately overturned that conviction on the grounds that the law under which Mr. Zundel was charged was unconstitutional. That's when As It Happens guest host Ann Medina spoke with American lawyer Alan Dershowitz. Here's some of their conversation, from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

ANN MEDINA: The Supreme Court came out today, striking down the false news log. You think that was a good thing if you do, why?

ALAN DERSHOWITZ: I think it's an excellent decision. There's no such thing as false news. We can't draw a line between truth and falsity. We learned that a long time ago in history. I think that the Canadian people are intelligent enough to be able to distinguish truth from falsity. The marketplace of ideas is alive and well in Canada. The Canadian people do not need to be protected from the Zundels’ of the world – the bigots of the world — by censorship.

AM: Does that mean you just let them publish whatever they want to publish and so be it?

AD: And let us answer in whatever way we want to answer.

AM: But some people will say look, they're young people — sometimes students. This is encouraging them with hate mongering.

AD: Well, we have to educate young people. Nobody has ever won a battle for truth by censorship. Censorship just drives ideas underground. In fact, if you censor it then it makes the idea of more tantalizing and more titillating. I believe that Holocaust denial is more accepted in Canada today primarily because of its censorship efforts than it is in the United States.

AM: Too often we look to the laws to solve problems — anything that we don't like — is that what you're saying?

AD: Well, I think the laws sometimes can help us solve problems. But freedom of speech is so important in a democratic society that restricting freedom of speech in order to prevent bigots like Zundel from speaking is the Zundel ultimate victory. He doesn't want free speech. For him it's only a tactic. He wants tyranny. He is an admirer of Hitler. He is a supporter of Nazism. He is a supporter of total tyranny and censorship. It's incredibly hypocritical for him to be invoking freedom of speech, but we shouldn't let him win by giving him the satisfaction of censorship.

RD: From our archives, that was American lawyer Alan Dershowitz speaking with As It Happens guest host Ann Medina in 1992. They were discussing the Supreme Court of Canada as decision to overturn a conviction against holocaust denier Ernst Zundel. Ernst Zundel died on Saturday in Germany. He was 78.

[Music: Folk rock]

Toronto Tree Tower

Guest: Chris Precht

RD: It's called the Toronto Tree Tower Project. The aim is to build an 18-storey residential building made mostly of wood and plants. And it promises it will be one of the most environmentally-friendly and sustainable pieces of architecture in the world. Now, the people who did say they were inspired by Moshe Safdie’s Habitat “67” housing complex, which left its mark on the Montreal Expo of 1967. Chris Precht is the Austrian architect designing the Tree Tower Project reached Mr. Precht in Toronto.

RB: So Mr. Precht, describe what this Tree Tower in Toronto would look like?

CHRIS PRECHT: Yeah, first of all, the hotel is made out of wood. Wood technology actually made a big progress in the last two years, especially wood in general to use it in in high rises. So we use cross-laminated timber. This secures that the wood is not shrinking or expanding over time.

RB: So that that's what it looks like to an architect. What does it look like to me as I'm walking down the street? What should I picture in my mind's eye?

CP: It's a very natural alternative to conventional way of building. It's a very healthy environment to live in. I’ve lived a large portion of my life in China, and I know what the pollution is doing to cities. The construction industry is a big contributor to this pollution of our cities.

RB: And where does the tree part come in? Is it because it looks like a tree house? There are trees in it?

CP: Yeah, and it is made from a tree, right? And so all of the materials we use for the high rise are made out of renewable materials. So it looks like a tree. But, at the same time, it is also made from a tree.

RB: And I think you were inspired by Safdie’s Habitat “67” in Montreal, which Canadians might be more familiar with. What about that inspired you?

CP: True, especially when it comes to the process of building. Safdie is a big influence and especially the Habitat in Montreal was a big influence because it was the first time to architects used a modular system, but made it visually very interesting. And the process of building those prefabricated modules off-site and having everything already installed and then just craned into place. It is very efficient and therefore it was a big influence.

RB: It's a bit like Lego. That's what it looks like to me it is.

CP: I think every architect somehow is doing architecture because as a kid, they played with Lego. And it is a very direct translation from Lego to the Habitat.

RB: Do you remember the first time you saw Habitat “67” when it was presented?

CP: Yeah, we did a lot of studies when I was a student on it because I mean prefabrication has been around for a lot of years. But it was very repetitive system. And this was the first time that there was a lot of variation in this modular system. And this is very difficult to achieve because they had to use concrete and it was very heavy. With a wood building, that's much different because we can build much lighter modules, which makes it very easy and affordable for high rises.

RB: You know I can't help think about the Grenfell Tower in London and I know it was sort of the exterior coating of that tower that caused the fire, but would people would they have to worry about the fact that it was made from wood?

CP: No. I mean there are a lot of studies into wood buildings and using in high rises. And, actually, wood burns much different than steel does because wood is made out of fibers. You can know exactly how wood is burning instead of steel because steel can crack very easily and very suddenly. So you don't know when this happens with steel. But in wood you can exactly say OK, you have two hours until a structure might collapse. Very safe actually to use wood building in high rises.

RB: You spent a lot of time in China and I imagine other places. Why did you think Toronto and Canada made sense for Tree Tower? We got a lot of trees already.

CP: Yeah, that is true. I think the climatic, it made sense to build with wood. Canada has a long tradition and knowledge in wood buildings…

RB: Like log cabins you're thinking of, I guess?

CP: Yeah, exactly. And there are a lot of resources there. You have a lot of forests. And like Austria, it makes a lot of sense to build in wood, especially also Toronto and Vancouver real estate prices are extremely high at the moment. So it also makes sense to build in wood for affordable housing, for example. Because wood buildings — modular wood buildings — use much less labour to build it all. Also, the process is much shorter than with a conventional construction method.

RB: I was going to ask you about the price because you know the Habitat “67” was for the same reason. They thought it was going to be very affordable. And now, those prefabricated places go for a lot of money.

CP: Yeah, of course that is true. It was expensive because they had to reinvent a lot of things because the modules were actually so heavy. But with wood, you build like three-quarters lighter than conventional construction methods. That makes it much cheaper. Also, the time you spend actually in the construction process is much shorter because everything is prefabricated in indoor environments. This makes the time on site much shorter and reduces the price for the construction.

RB: So who do you think would live there, other than you?

CP: I think everybody has a special bond in living in wood buildings. I think that is also measurable because people who live in buildings have a lower heart rate, for example.

RB: Really?

CP: Yeah, everybody's somehow craving for living in healthy indoors and building. You know like we spend so much time already in a city like going by car and standing behind glass and steel and we live behind glass and steel and concrete. I think wood just offers a healthy alternative of living. So I think that everybody somehow has a special bond in living in the wood building.

RB: All right. Mr. Precht, we'll see whether you manage to get your tree house built.

CP: Yeah, hopefully.

RB: Good luck.

CP: Thank you.

RB: Thank you.

CP: Thanks, Rosemary. Thanks for talking.

RD: Chris Precht is the architect behind the Toronto Tree Tower Project. And he was in Toronto.

[Music: Cultural]

Sea lice

RD: He just went for a quick dip in the water. But when he emerged, it looked like a scene from a horror movie. Sam Kanizay decided to soak his legs after a game of soccer at a beach in Brighton, Australia. Half an hour later, his feet were covered in blood. So he went home, numb to the pain, but the blood on his legs kept dripping. Soon he rushed to the hospital where he was put on antibiotics. Doctors believe that sea lice attacked Mr. Kanizay’s legs. The 16-year-old shared his story this morning to host Ross Stevenson and John Burns on 3AW Radio Melbourne.

SOUNDCLIP

ROSS STEVENSON: I think everyone knows the story that you're a bit sore from footy, you went Dendy Street Beach and when you came out, your feet and from the calves dam were a bloody mess, yeah?

SAM KANIZAY: Yeah, that's correct.

RS: How long were you in the water?

SK: I way resting my legs for about half an hour.

JOHN BURNS: Did you feel anything at the time?

SK: Well no, I didn't because the cold water basically numbed my legs. I sort of felt what I thought was just pins and needles. But maybe it wasn't just pins and needles.

JB: After you left the beach and presumably went home, what happened then? And what treatment did you get?

SK: So I walked home from the beach because my legs were still numb, so it wasn't too much pain then. I went home, washed it up in the shower a bit and then I could begin to feel it. So my dad drive me to the hospital just down Sandringham and they put me on some anti-biotic and pain painkillers, washed uop the mess and stood up.

JB: When you wash the blood off your legs and feet, what did it look like?

SK: When I first did it in the shower at home?

JB: When you first did it in the shower at home and you got the blood out. What did that look like?

SK: Well, it took a while to get all the blood off and it came back pretty quickly. But what we could tell was sort of looked like hundreds of little pinholes or pin-sized bites distributed all over my ankle and the top of my foot.

RD: Yikes. That was Sam Kanizay speaking to radio host Ross Stevenson and John Burns this morning on 3AW Radio Melbourne.

[Music: Rock]

Sound of the Day: Liam Gallagher Montreal pub

RD: He's a familiar face at McKibbin’s on Bishop Street in Montreal, but that's only because he's a familiar face pretty much everywhere. So when Liam Gallagher showed up at the Irish pub on Sunday and decided to sit in on a traditional Irish music session, well, it cause a bit of a stir. The former Oasis frontman was in town over the weekend to perform at the Osheaga Music Festival as part of his solo world tour. He even managed to work one of his latest songs, “Eh La,” into the set at McKibbin’s. Here's a bit of it, our Sound of the Hay.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Good-Ol Irish pub music]

RD: Hey hey! former Oasis frontman Liam Gallagher giving an impromptu performance at McKibbin’s Pub in Montreal yesterday. The British pop star was in town to play the Osheaga Music Festival over the weekend.

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August 7, 2017 episode transcript

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