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The AIH Transcript for August 4, 2017

Hosts: Piya Chattopadhyay and Karen Gordon

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

PIYA CHATTOPADHYAY: Hi, I'm Piya Chattopadhyay.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

KG: Tonight:

PC: Code snap. Four months after a young hacker helped save the world from malware, he's been detained by the FBI for allegedly creating and selling malware of his own. But our guest believes the authorities may have made a mistake.

CH: Subtracting insult from injury. After decades of campaigning and controversy, Jordan's parliament finally votes to abolish a law that allowed rapists to avoid punishment by marrying the women they assaulted.

PC: You can't run, but you can hide. Police in Sierra Leone are not so hot on the heels of various suspicious collectives quickly roaming the streets of their country. So they've banned jogging in groups.

CH: Don't Meet Me in St. Louis. After a recent spike in racist incidents and a new state law that makes it harder for people to prove racial discrimination, the NAACP issues an unprecedented travel advisory for Missouri.

PC: Hawk-y day in Canada. Specifically, Calgary, where a bunch of hawks have built a nest outside a local office complex and are violently flipping the bird — that is themselves — at employees trying to get in.

CH: And… a new way to kick-start his day and kick-end it. Fed up with the stress of gridlock on his morning commute, a Munich man immerses himself in a new routine: he packs his stuff in a waterproof bag and swims to work. As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio the guess is the traffic still crawls, unless it switches to backstroke.

[Music: Theme]

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Part 1: Malware indictment, Sierra Leone jogging, German Swimmer

Malware indictment

Guest: Ryan Kalember

CH: He was for at least a little while, the biggest celebrity in cybersecurity. Marcus Hutchins is just 23-years-old. And when the “Wannacry” ransomware attack sowed chaos it organizations all over the world this past May — Including the U.K.'s National Health Service — it was Mr. Hutchins who stopped the attack in its tracks. Now, he's been arrested and detained by the FBI, on his way home from a hacking conference in Las Vegas called Def Con. Ryan Kalember worked with Mr. Hutchins to help stop the “Wannacry” attack and was also at Def Con. We reached him in Dallas, Texas.

PC: Ryan Kalember, as far as you can tell, why has Marcus Hutchins been arrested?

RYAN KALEMBER: Well, the indictment says he created and sold what we call a banking Trojan, which is a malicious type software program designed to steal money.

PC: I thought he was supposed to be the good guy, that he had fought the “Wannacry” ransomware attack. Why would he be trying to create and sell this malware called Kronos?

RK: So, he certainly was the good guy in the “Wannacry” attack. He worked with our researchers, as well as lots of other like-minded individuals to stop that particular worm, as we call it, from spreading. But that said, this indictment refers to events that happened in 2014, when Kronos was released, as well as in 2015. So this is a little while back.

PC: So he could have been a bad guy turned good guy?

RK: The line is an interesting one in cyber-security. There are sort of these underground groups where malicious software is sold. And in order to gain credibility there, you have to frankly know what you're talking about. And that and that something is software that spies on people, steals information and, in the case of banking Trojans, actually steals money.

PC: So are you saying it's a little bit like going undercover as a cop?

RK: It is a lot like that. You know, malware researchers in a lot of respects are sort of like Donnie Brasco, except that they didn't work for the FBI. We tend to be independent or work for cyber-security companies. And really being on the forums is something that is particularly normal thing for researchers to do. There's nothing extraordinary about it and it does require blending in with cyber-criminals in order to learn about their tools.

PC: So is there a possibility that there's been misunderstanding here?

RK: I would say there's certainly a possibility. Obviously, we don't have a lot of evidence to look at this point in time. But a lot of what a researcher does, especially on underground forums, for a law enforcement agency would be really difficult to tell apart from legitimate criminal activity. You think of Donnie Brasco committing crimes in order to be trusted by the Mafia. You know, it's not quite the same thing, but it's certainly related.

PC: And on the other hand, if it was legitimate research, don't you think the FBI can tell the difference between that and actual criminal activity? Especially with a so-called hero like Marcus Hutchins was. Wouldn't they want to make sure that they get this right?

RK: Well, and that's something a lot of us in the community are concerned about. You know the relationship between cyber-security professionals and the FBI has had ups and downs, to put it mildly. And something like this engenders a lot of distrust. That said, any type of investigation like this even including the things that involve the intelligence community, who are some of the world's foremost experts at this, always involves a degree of uncertainty. And we haven't seen the sort of evidence that would allow us to make a strong conclusion one way or another. And again, if he's just doing research in these forums it's going be very hard to tell that technically apart from legitimate research activity and selling malware.

PC: So even the best in the world, whether they work for law enforcement or on the hacking side, it's hard to discern where the line is on this is?

RK: It is. And in this case, we also have an unnamed second partner to him that is referred to throughout the indictment, who apparently tried to sell this on a what we call a dark web marketplace. So something that you’d need a special browser to connect to called Alpha Bay. And that marketplace had actually been taken down by an international law enforcement effort just a couple of weeks ago. So there's likely more to this story that's going to come out sooner rather than later.

PC: You saw Marcus Hutchins recently at the Def Con conference. How did he seem to you?

RK: You know he's an infosec celebrity, right? He seemed to be smiling and laughing, of course, sort of revered by all who encountered him. He certainly seemed to be in a good mood. There was no sign that anything was amiss.

PC: What has been the reaction given what you just said of how people at Def Con at least see him — saw him — what's been the reaction from people there about his arrest? The people in the cyber-security community.

RK: There's certainly been a lot of disbelief. Those who have worked with him and collaborate with him over the years are somewhat shocked by this. There are others though who say that you know his knowledge of these underground cyber-crime forms was so profound that it's not out of the question that he would have done some things that might be in a gray area.

PC: I want to ask you about the timeliness of this. Why might this indictment have been handed down now do you think?

RK: Well, the indictment was actually dated July 11th. So the arrest was probably timed to not create a spectacle at Deaf Con and Black Hat, which are two of the largest events in the cyber-security world.

PC: And do you think that this indictment could be connected to the arrest of the Canadian founder of the dark web site Alpha Bay and its subsequent shut down?

RK: I think there's a strong possibility that the events are connected, especially as that sort of unnamed partner is actually mentioned as selling this Kronos banking Trojan on Alpha Bay as recently as a few months ago. So it's likely that the takedown of Alpha Bay led to some new evidence in this case.

PC: If this is a misunderstanding, how might this affect the relationship between governments and cyber-security types?

RK: Well, it's very, very likely to engender further distrust. And those two groups have been working on trying to get better at collaborating for years and years. And there will occasionally be something that involves a very human very real story that sends a chill through those relations. This is certainly one of those and it's actually probably the highest profile individual to ever be caught up in a case like this.

PC: Ryan Kalember, thank you for helping us understand this. I appreciate your time.

RK: It was my pleasure.

PC: Take good care. Bye bye.

RK: Bye.

CH: Ryan Kalember is the Vice President of Cybersecurity Strategy for Proofpoint. We reached him in Dallas, Texas.

[Music: Hip-hop]

Sierra Leone jogging ban

Guest: Amadu Lamrana Bah

CH: They roam the streets with a “hint of menace”. They hurl insults, stop traffic, pound on cars, play loud music and generally disturb the general public. At least, that's how Sierra Leone police see it. They put a public notice last week, warning about these dangerous “groups”. Not street gangs. Joggers. Joggers who jog in groups. And now, police have declared an outright ban on any group jogging. The issue has captivated people in the country, especially in Freetown, Sierra Leone's capital. That's where Amadu Lamrana Bah lives and works. He's a media personality with Star Radio & TV. And an occasional jogger. We reached him in Freetown.

PC: Amadu, just how menacing are these joggers in Sierra Leone?

AMADU LAMRANA BAH: The joggers in Sierra Leone have become tradition in Sierra Leone. It’s a coutry with mostly young people. Most of them take to the streets on weekends, they go to the beaches and mostly some do it in their communities. They run from one end to the other just to exercise. They do it in groups because most times most of them play football together. They go around singing while jogging.

PC: Well, according to the police, the joggers are doing more than you know running and singing in groups. The police say they're snatching property from pedestrians or hurling insults or stopping traffic. Have you ever seen that kind of behavior from these joggers?

ALB: It might be an isolated case. I've been part of jogging. I am a youth; I am just 30. I play football. I exercise. There might have been some isolated cases, which is the responsibility of the police to handle. They can't justify that there have been cases of young people going around snatching phone and destroying properties. No! These are mostly working-class young people, who find time durring the weekend to get out and exercise.

PC: Police say they're doing this now to ensure public order and safety. What do you think is behind the ban?

ALB: After I read this press statement it was so awful. I went to social media, I posted something on my Facebook page and shared it on WhatsApp. I believe there is politics behind all of this. If you read the press statement, there is somewhere where the police are saying these young people go around singing political songs. Yes, sometimes they sing about issues that are happening that they're not happy about. And because they have been politicians in opposition who have been sometimes exercising with these young people, the ruling party, I believe, are feeling threatened and they want to use the police to stop these young people from getting out in the streets. I think there is a political motive behind all of this because there are serious issues to be handled. I'm a resident of the capital, Freetown, in the western part — perhaps the affluent part. A few weeks ago, thief’s came into our house. My car was damaged, [indiscernible] was stolen and I was saying these are the serious issues the police should go after. Not young people who are harmless and running in the streets.

PC: So you think this jogging ban is a distraction from something else?

ALB: It's a big distraction. This party has been using it to stop the opposition singing with young people. They come out and sing political song and they aren’t allowed to move around. You even have people within the party, who want to succeed the president, going out on the weekend to interact with the people, jog with them and send out their message of support for these politicians. The responsibility of the police is to provide security for the people. You don't issue out an outright ban when you think few people are causing violence. No! No! You can’t tell me hundreds of young people go out into the streets and are violent. It will be chaotic.

PC: Amadu, when the police say these groups are banned. What are they referring to? Are they talking about elite running groups, or is it much broader than that?

ALB: There's something around selective justice and who they're going to ban and not going to ban. There are certain people who are influential in society. I know of the Minister of Internal Affairs — a retired military man — who is part of a team of affluent joggers in Freetown. I know that came out yesterday. They were out in the streets exercising and no one goes after them. No one goes after them! The press release is not specific. Five people can be a group of people. Two or three people can be a group of people. So it’s causing panic. I go to the beach on Sundays. I play football. I do brisk walk and I run. But I can’t do that now with my friends because we are afraid of being attacked or arrested by the police.

PC: So you haven't been jogging with other people since this ban came into effect?

ALB: No! I go to the beach every Sunday. We play mostly of working-class young guys like us. We call it “Soccer Sunday”, we play football, we exercise and we run. We can't do it because the police said we should not do it.

PC: Well, according to the police, they're asking people to jog that it is allowed in recreational fields or the beach. So why don't people just do that?

ALB: That’s the most ridiculous part of the whole press statement. You have communities where you know they don't even have schools — primary schools or secondary schools — they don’t even have recreational grounds. They are not there! So it means you're just telling the people don't go out.

PC: Amadu, as you said, you've been talking about this on your Facebook page. I'm wondering what kind of support you're getting?

ALB: A lot of people came in and we are condemning the action. 98 per cent of the comments are on my Facebook page condemn it. Because this is the thing, there was a time when women wanted to come out on raise awareness of what they want in the reviewed Constitution. Our Constitution is being reviewed. The police did not allow them to do it. They refused them permits to come out. Women are as peaceful as they can be, so this is a trend. Anything that the head police think the politicians in governments are not happy with, he will send out a press statement passing an outright ban. That is so bad! You can't just stop people from running it in the streets when they want to do it! It’s their right!

PC: Amadu, I appreciate your time today. Thank you very much.

ALB: You're very much welcome.

PC: And I hope you can get back out jogging on the streets.

ALB: Well, we hope the police will lift the ban. You know this is just a violation of our rights.

PC: Amadu, thank you. Bye bye.

ALB: Thanks very much.

CH: Amadu Lamrana Bah is a jogger and media personality with Star Radio & TV who lives and works in Freetown, Sierra Leone. That's where we reached him.

[Music: Jazz]

Calgary office hawks

CH: Going to work can be stressful. Maybe you're anxious about that big presentation you have to make, or a deadline you know you won't make. All those things to worry about, going around in your head. But for some workers at an office complex in Calgary, the stress of going to work has a physical component. And the things they're worried about go right at their heads. A family of hawks has set up a nest in the parking lot of TeeJay’s food group. Tom Grande can see it from his office window. And this morning, he told CBC Calgary host David Gray that the Hawks have divebombed “a dozen or so” people and that some have been injured.

SOUNDCLIP

TOM GRANDE: I've kind of witnessed the Hawks kind of go down and hit this one lady that was having a smoke outside. I didn’t know who she was, but she happened to stop there and she looked at me and it hit her in the back. And she kind of was a little bit stunned. And said the hawk hit you, she wasn't sure what happened. And then there was some blood kind of going down the side of her head, so we just kind of brought her in and took good care of her and that was that.

DAVID GRAY: So they’re not just warning and divebombing. It actually hit her?

TG: Yeah, I'm going to say it has probably been about three people that have actually been hit because they’ll swoop down and they got their talons out. And, like I said, they're being protective, so they have some people and drawn blood as it were.

DG: Oh my goodness! Are they seriously hurt or were they scratched up? How do you describe it?

TG: Everybody takes it as it's nature and nature's doing its thing. So nobody's been really kind of upset or any of that kind of stuff. I think the one lady did get a couple of stitches though.

DG: My goodness! I understand it’s become such a daily occurrence that even the Canada Post letter carrier isn't coming by anymore, is that right?

TG: No. I guess sleet, snow and all that stuff. But Hawks kind of chase them away. So there's a Joey’s Seafood food truck just parked on the far end of our parking lot and it's always open there. So they kind of pop the mail there and the rest of the businesses around the area will go there to retrieve their mail.

DG: I don't know if I'd want to be serving seafood around a hawk?

TG: They’re quite a ways away and it's good entertainment for people sitting down and having lunch.

DG: I'll give you that. How’s the rodent population doing near your office? It’s got to be the good side though?

TG: I used to see lots of gophers sticking around my office, scurrying about. They've kind of disappeared.

CH: That was Tom Grande speaking with David Gray, this morning, on CBC Calgary's “Eyeopener”. Mr. Grande works at TeeJay’s food group in Calgary, where a group of hawks have set up a nest in the parking lot.

[Music: Hip-hop]

German swimmer

Guest: Benjamin David

CH: Even if you're not being divebombed by angry Hawks, commuting to work is a daily grind. The hours in bumper-to-bumper traffic, or shoulder-to-shoulder with strangers on a crowded subway train. Every day starts with a journey into the darkest part of your soul and ends the same way. Not for Benjamin David though. Not anymore. After years of commuting, he got sick of it. And since then, he has opted to jump into Munich's Isar River in his wet suit and swim two-kilometers to his workplace instead. We reached Benjamin David in Munich, Germany.

PC: Mr. David, when did you realize that swimming was the best way for you to commute to work?

BAJAMIN DAVID: Well, that basically happened when I realized that the River Isar, unlike today, had been used as a basically public transport system for about 250 years, when just about everything from Italy to Austria moved through Munich. And once you have this idea that you can use the river as a means of transport, then the leap is not too far to actually use it for yourself to get to work.

PC: And previous to coming up with this idea, how did you get to work and how long did it take?

BD: Usually, I'd take my bicycle, the car, the bus, I'd walk on foot and what not. But the thing is traffic has become so congested, but also very aggressive. Somehow everybody thinks he's fighting for his square inch of public space to get to work. And, at some point, I had this idea well how about just take the river, which is right next to that road and is actually as wide as two highways and take that to get to work?

PC: How long does it take you to swim the two-kilometers to work? Are you going downstream? Is it a fast swim? Or how does it work?

BD: Well, it depends very much on the current, which can change a lot. But it takes me somewhere between 12 and 27 minutes depending on my means of swimming. So I just float, it's obviously slower. And if I crawl, I’m much faster.

PC: Sometimes you just float down the river?

BD: Oh yeah, sure. That’s actually the most beautiful way to do it. I have a little floating device with me and I just put that under my arms and drift.

PC: OK, I have so many practical questions. I mean when I go to work, I have to you know carry my stuff to work and I don't go in a swimsuit. You go in a swim suit and I don't know what you take to work. But like your computer and clothes for work. How do you how do you take that when you're swimming?

BD: Well, the thing is, I'm kind of privileged. I live right next to the river and my work is a few bridges down the river. And here in the morning, I will just pack up my stuff. I will dump it into so-called wickelfisch, which is a Swiss invention actually. It's completely waterproof and it also floats. So I just put in my clothes, my laptop, my smartphone and whatnot and I roll it up. And when I rolled it up, it becomes kind of a bubble and that bubble I can then just throw over my shoulder and look a bit like David Hasselhoff. It’s red. Not I look like David Hasselhoff, but me with… I think you get me then. Yeah, it's just kind of like a floating device with all my stuff in it. And I go for a swim.

PC: So I certainly now have an image in my head of what you look like down the river. I'm wondering what the view from your perspective is as you're going down the river? What's it like during your commute?

BD: Well, the thing is in recent years, the city of Munich and also the country of Bavaria have done a beautiful thing that's called the re-naturalisation of the Isar. So, especially in the south, where I start, there's lots of green and there's pebbles and whatnot. And once you get further into the city, it becomes very urban. There's beautiful historic building to the right and the left of the river and I just swim by those and enjoy the view.

PC: And so you're along the roadway. The river runs along the roadway, so people are watching you while you swim to work. What kind of reactions do people give you when they see you swimming dressed in a wet suit or I don't know if you wear a Speedo or trunks or what you wear? But do they raise eyebrows? What do they say?

BD: Well most people actually react very positively. I've become kind of a local hero here in the last few weeks because of all the media coverage. And actually quite a few people have joined me now. So they are just kind of finding floating devices for themselves, or asking me where I got mine?

PC: Now, you said do you work downtown and you go the two-kilometers and the current pushes you some days. Do you swim home too, against the current?

BD: The thing is, I'm not a professional swimmer and I have doubts that even a professional swimmer could swim against the current. It's very strong. And so I just walk back home or take the bus.

PC: I know it's not Canada, but Munich gets cold in the winter, as I understand it. It's also can get rainy and very windy. Do you do this year round? And how do you prepare for the tough weather conditions?

BD: Well, most of the time I do it in the summer, obviously. But also in winter it can be kind of fun. I have two different wet suits: a short one and a long one. So depending on conditions, I’ll either put the one or the other, or I'll just swim in that bathing suit. So it basically works in every weather, except for thunderstorms. Then I do get a bit nervous and take normal means to get to work.

PC: And, as you said, people have joined your way of commuting. You said do you get groups of people using the Isar as a transport route to work nowadays.

BD: Well, it's actually kind of beautiful because somehow the inner-city river in the southern part of the city where we have this re-naturalized river, which is really beautiful and thousands and thousands of people will enjoy life there every afternoon. But in the inter-city river, there’s these walls on the right and left of the river, so nobody will actually get down to the river. And suddenly, this part of the river is becoming kind of public domain.

PC: And how has swimming to commute change your attitudes and outlook on life?

BD: The thing is, most things that you think of that are stressful can actually be quite relaxing if you just kind of take a step aside. When I was on my bike, I would yell at cars. When I was up by foot, I would yell at cyclists and so on and so forth. And just a few meters to the side of that is the river. And if you just swim down that, it's completely relaxed and refreshing and I don't even have to take a shower in the morning, so I have 10 to 20 minutes more time with the kids.

PC: Mr. David, it seems like you've come up with quite a novel idea and it seems quite enjoyable. Thank you for telling us about it.

BD: It's been a pleasure. And someday, I'll travel to Canada.

PC: We welcome you swimming our rivers in this great country of ours. And until then, happy swimming in the Isar.

BD: I've heard you have the most beautiful country on planet earth.

PC: Indeed we do. Thank you very much.

BD: Bye bye.

PC: Bye.

CH: That was Benjamin David. We reached him in Munich, Germany. And if you want to read more about how he swims to work, head to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

Back To Top »

Part 2: Jordan rape law, NAACP travel advisory

Jordan rape law

Guest: Salma Nims

CH: It's being hailed as a historic win for women in Jordan. This week, the country's parliament voted to abolish a law allowing rapists to escape punishment if they marry their victims. A law which had been hotly debated in Jordan for decades. Salma Nims is the Secretary General of the Jordanian National Commission for Women, a semi-governmental organization that campaigned for the repeal of the law. We reached her in Amman, Jordan.

PC: Well, Ms. Nims, for women in Jordan, how significant is the repeal of this law?

SELMA NIMS: Well, you know that this has been a demand for the woman movements and human rights movements in Jordan for the past two decades at least. Of course, it's a package with a whole set of legal amendments that we are demanding. Some of them are within the penal code. Others are within other legislations. However, this one has been one of the most important and significant because it was kind of contradictory with the idea of legal justice.

PC: If you could just for a moment take us back and explain the origins of how this law came to be? What was its intention?

SN: Well, you know, this entire penal code was introduced to the Jordanian legal system in the 60s and in the 50s actually, when the Jordanian nation became independent. However, also it was taken from the Lebanese law and the Egyptian law, which was adopted from the Napoleon law. So this includes this article, which basically uses marriage as a way for a person who commits not only rape, but any sexual crime the prosecution could be stopped or the sentence might not be implemented if he marries the victim. These were there for now more than 57 years these articles. They are totally inconsistent with the fact that we are a modern nation and we need to move forward towards a more modernized penal code.

PC: Do you have any sense of how many victims of rape over these decades have entered into marriages like this?

SN: Well, I would say that that it varies from a year to another. If we count the 57 years, yes, it could be more than you know hundreds of women. Remember that this long not only stops the sentence, but also stops the prosecution process. This means that we don't necessarily have specific numbers when it comes to the use of the article because once you stop the persecution, you will not find anything in the court documentation that someone has benefited from the article.

PC: It's 2017, why do you think it has taken so long to get this law — this kind of law — off the books in Jordan?

SN: Sadly, I think that in many cases, specifically in societies like ours. Issues related to giving women rights becomes the last on the agenda when you're looking at you know ensuring stability, ensuring that you know the country is stable and an area which always has been within a politically unstable region. Then you don't want to challenge traditions that that established over hundreds of years where the concept of reputation and honor are connected to the body of the woman. And this is something that is a concept or a value that is adopted by all sects of the Jordanian society, whether it's Christian or Muslims from different tribes. So it’s not the challenge that this state would take if there are other political or economic challenges.

PC: And for those who support and supported keeping the law on the books. Can you help me understand the cultural context from which they would make those arguments?

SN: The concept of seeing the woman or the girl as a victim of a sexual assault is not well-established. As I said, it's about honor and deputation. They always see her as somehow responsible for what happened to her. So basically, her honor is tarnished even if she's 15, and she doesn't know really why is this 30-year-old man doing this to her? And this is a very highly held value within the Jordanian society. And actually, when you marry her off to that criminal, you're actually perfecting her. You're basically saving the honor of the family and they say that this is also related to protecting the woman from being killed in the name of honour. And really I mean the question is is this how we protect her? Do we need to have more protective services? And what other areas in the penal code that we need to amend in order to ensure that nobody gets away by killing his daughter in the name of honour.

PC: Recently, Tunisia got rid of a similar provision to the one that you are talking about is happening in Jordan. But this provision still exists in a number of countries in the Middle East and in other parts of the world. But what kind of impact do you think the repeal in Jordan could have on efforts to abolish the law in other parts of the region?

SN: Well, actually, we do get affected by each other and the civil society movements use changes that happen in similar countries, specifically within that region. Use that as part of its pressure over its own governments and parliaments to adopt similar amendments. For us, you know we've been demanding this change for a long time. But actually, last week, two days before that parliament was going to be reviewing the article, was when Tunisia actually adopted the law. And this has given us a revamped energy to actually say no, we're not going to stop at this. Our fight is going to continue to the last minute. And over the last weekend, the Civil Society Organization, with the support of the Jordanian National Commission for Women, we brought ourselves together and pushed into recreating a new campaign within 48 hours. That created the new pressure on the parliament and I think played a lot in affecting decision making at the highest level. Impressioning towards ensuring that this is going to be adopted and the government came through and was really defending that amendment in the last few days. And I think the pressure that came from the Civil Society is in the past three four days specifically had a lot to do with it.

PC: Salma Nims, thank you for explaining this to me. And congratulations on achieving the victory that you and others in Jordan have fought for. I appreciate your time.

SN: Thank you.

PC: Bye now.

CH: Salma Nims is Secretary General of the Jordanian National Commission for Women. We reached her in Amman, Jordan.

[Music: Really fast violin]

Shkreli verdict

CH: Martin Shkreli, aka “Pharma Bro” has been convicted of fraud. Mr. Shkreli instantly became one of the most hated people on earth in 2015, after jacking up the price of a lifesaving AIDS medication by 5,000 per cent. But that's not why he's in trouble. Today, he was found guilty of deceiving investors in failed hedge funds. Prosecutors argued that he had been running a kind of Ponzi scheme. Rather than being humbled by the conviction, he appeared outside the courthouse alongside his team of lawyers seemingly vindicated. Here's part of what he had to say, for the record.

SOUNDCLIP

MARTIN SHKRELI: We're I think delighted in many ways with this verdict. Count seven was the government's attempt to theorize that I robbed Peter to pay Paul. And the jury has spoken conclusively that Retrophin was not defrauded in this case. My investors made three to five times their money without any aid of any settlement agreement. Some made 10 times or more than that of their original investment after they did receive settlements. I'm delighted the jury did their job. They saw the facts as they were and, most importantly, I'd like to think Ben, greatest lawyer on the planet. Who took a risk on me and paid off. As to the three, as Mark said, we have some work to do. I think that the jury is found and it's in the record clearly that there were no losses at all with respect to counts three and six, which gratifies me personally. This was a witch hunt of epic proportions. And maybe they found one or two broomsticks, but at the end of the day, we've been acquitted of the most important charge in this case and I'm delighted to report that.

CH: That was Martin Shkreli outside a courthouse in New York today. The pharmaceutical entrepreneur and hedge fund manager has been convicted on three counts of fraud. He was acquitted of five other charges. Mr. Shkreli faces prison time for those crimes.

[Music: Indie rock]

Robert Hardy obit

SOUNDCLIP

ROBERT HARDY: Dispatch an owl of the Daily Prophet, if we do we hurry, we should still make the morning edition. Shacklebolt, you will escort Dumbledore to Azkaban to await trial for conspiracy and sedition.

MICHAEL GAMBON: Ah, I thought we might hit this little snag.

CH: To one generation, he was best known as the excitable Siegfried, who ran a veterinary practice in Yorkshire in the long-running British series, “All Creatures Great and Small.” But to younger fans, nearly 40 years later, he was most famous for playing a much more fantastical role: that of Cornelius Fudge in the “Harry Potter” movies. Robert Hardy has died at the age of 91, after a prolific 70 year career in the industry. In 1984, Mr. Hardy spoke with CBC Radio host Vicki Gabereau about some of his past roles, including the one that scored him a BAFTA award, which required him to suck down a whole bunch of cigars.

SOUNDCLIP

VICKI GABEREAU: Let's talk about Churchill a bit now. When you were preparing for that, did you take lessons on how to hold a cigar? I know that you don't smoke when you see.

RH: No, well I smoked so many over that. I forget exactly the figure, but I think it was ten-thousand-and- a-half-pounds worth of cigars I got through in the six months that I worked on it.

VG: you had to smoke the good cigars.

RH: It was the good, big torpedoes. And I was converted. I did like it, but I stopped the next day. I had to learn also because I've always smoked, but very slightly. I treat cigars like chocolates; I don't have to have them. And that was just fortunate.

VG: It certainly is.

RH: It is, isn’t it?

VG: You’ve been here for quite a while now and you haven't had one cigarette.

RH: I had one at the beginning.

VG: Oh, did you? All right.

RH Before started and that's because you made me nervous.

VG: I didn't?

RH: No, no, no. I had it. But I had to learn. Having smoked all my life, I had to learn to smoke without inhaling and that is quite an art.

VG: Because otherwise you'd turn green.

RH: Green and puke.

VG: Charming. Did you change your opinion of him one way or the other by studying his character so thoroughly?

RH: I don't think I changed it greatly, except that I found a great deal more to be affectionate towards. I started off in some terror because I was asked to attack this monolith. And, gradually, got over that and the more I worked on him, the more I found he was the most lovable, fallible and enchanting creature. But as far as evaluating him as a leader, I don't think as a leader — as a man of size, breadth and understanding — whatever faults. But as an evaluation of a man of size, I only deepened my appreciation, but vastly deepened my affection. I really loved him a dear. But I made my living, if not my name, playing nasties always.

VG: And to think that you'd would grow up to be the world's sweetest guy.

RH: The sweetest, old, short-tempered guy. Yes I know, it's a strange thing, isn’t it?

VG: Yes. You're not short-tempered by nature are you?

RH: Yes.

VG: Are you?

RH: Yes.

CH: That was Robert Hardy speaking with Vicki Gabereau back in 1984. Mr. Hardy was best-known for his roles as Siegfried Farnon on the series “All Creatures Great and Small”, and as Cornelius Fudge in the “Harry Potter” movies. Robert Hardy died yesterday at the age of 91.

[Music: Sad guitar]

NAACP advisory

Guest: Nimrod Chapel

CH: For the first time in its history, the American civil rights organization, the NAACP, has issued a travel advisory for an entire U.S. state. That state is Missouri. The NAACP is warning African-Americans living or traveling in the state to use extreme caution. Nimrod Chapel is the president of the Missouri NAACP. We reached him in Jefferson City.

PC: Mr. Chapel, why is a travel advisory necessary for your state of Missouri?

NIMROD CHAPEL: It's a twofold reason. The first is we've recognized for a lot of civil rights violations that were occurring, both on an individual basis in or outside of the workplace. But then also on public roads, where we know that the vehicle stops reports showed that if you're a person of color, you were 75 per cent more likely to be stopped than our Caucasian neighbours. And then even when there were crimes that could be prosecuted as a hate crime under existing state or federal law that they were not being prosecuted. And so we looked at that and then the governor signed Senate bill-43. That law takes away the ability of people to hold those who discriminate her or harass against other people accountable.

PC: And this the Senate, bill number 43, was recently passed.

NC: It was. The governor signed it on June the 30^th, right before the 4th of July holiday — our Independence Day. And it will become law on August 28th of this year. I'll tell you, as a practicing lawyer, as one who's worked tirelessly with the organization and many other lawyers on this issue, Missouri's law goes much further than any other jurisdiction. It has the highest standard of proof and it allows people to discriminate and harass other people with immunity. Other states have not codified that in their law. And historically, those are seen as Jim Crow laws, where you say that one category of people can be treated differently than others based on a color or sex or something like that. This will be the first time that a state has gone the opposite direction in not protecting civil rights and humanity, but instead, saying that some citizens are more valuable than others.

PC: And who supports this law in Missouri?

NC: You know tragically, the Missouri Chamber of Commerce has been one of the main proponents. I know that the House of Representatives, the Missouri Senate as well as the executive branch are all from the Republican Party. And so it was one of the principle issues that they set forth in their agenda for this year.

PC: The travel advisory saying if you're black and you're coming through our state, your chances of being stopped and pulled over by the police are much higher than if you are white. That your chances of being discriminated against in our state are quite vast. And we all remember the Ferguson riots and three years ago, when Michael Brown was shot and killed. Are you suggesting that things have gotten worse in Missouri since that time?

NC: Yes, I think that fundamentally they have. The stops report shows that this year more African-Americans and more people of colour have been pulled over than were last year. So certainly motorists on the roads should have a greater expectation, if you will, of an unwanted interaction with a police officer. The individual incidents of racially-motivated attacks, whether those be by the police or complaints that we receive here at the organization those have increased as well. They are so great now that we're having a very, very hard time keeping up.

PC: And you yourself as a as a black man — a black Missourian — have you noticed it personally, things getting worse?

NC: You know I can tell you long before this, there have been sections of different cities that I just simply wouldn't go in. Not because I’m worried about crime necessarily, but because I'm worried about my civil rights being respected. And so currently you know I can tell you stories from my own experience where I've been told, during my public service as an administrative law judge, don't stay in this town because that's not a good place and you may not be safe. Not a 100 per cent that something would happen, but much along the lines of a travel advisory where my Caucasian brothers and sisters have been concerned about my safety and have given me a warning based on the knowledge that they had of the area or the people there. And frankly, with some of the issues the NAACP faces around the state. I know that the Ku Klux Klan is active here in the state, that they are still working to disenfranchise people in various ways and that people have to be safe when they travel around. Even on that level of aggressive and some might say racist activity.

PC: This advisory expires on August 28^th. Why August 28^th?

NC: And so we changed the expiration date. And we did that when the governor signed it. So now that advisory is in full effect, we are trying to determine the kinds of changes that would have to occur.

PC: I just want to be clear about the law itself. If I as, a person of colour, was harassed or assaulted in your state. Are you saying that there is no legal protection for me to have charges or go to court against the person who did that to me?

NC: On the criminal side, I'll give you an example. There was a man who made a threat against all the black people on a university campus. He said he was going to shoot them. So you would expect that would result in a criminal prosecution. And because he said he was going to shoot the black people that would make it a hate crime. It was not prosecuted as a hate crime. So on the criminal side, you should not have an adequate expectation that you would be protected or that those folks will be prosecuted adequately. And then on the civil side, if you are in a workplace or a public place and were confronted with some racist or sexist behavior that could include assault. You would not be able to bring a claim in court against the person that did it. You might be able to sue a business where it occurred or something of that nature, but actually holding individual accountable, no.

PC: I understand that you have to prove that it was on that specific basis that race or gender was the key factor. Is that the correct understanding?

NC: The motivating factor is what the standard’s been changed to. Missouri had been that a contributing factor. So now, a litigant would have to show that it was the motivating factor. You know and so it will be extremely hard for people who have legitimate instances of discrimination or harassment to bring forth those claims and prevail.

PC: Mr. Chapel, thank you for explaining this to us. I appreciate your time today.

NC: Thank you very much.

PC: Thank you very much, sir. Good bye.

NC: Bye bye.

CH: Nimrod Chapel is the president of the Missouri NAACP. We reached him in Jefferson City. And you can find more on that story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Hip-hop]

Bob Ross Chia Pet

SOUNDCLIP

BOB ROSS: Welcome back. Glad to see you today. You know in every series there has to be a crazy day and this is our crazy day. So we thought we'd do a painting that's really far out and that maybe it'll excite the imagination. We're going to have a little campfire down here and all the big trees around and we just sort of see what happens.

CH: Spoiler alert: what happens is Bob Ross paints a campfire. But it is a little far out. He also paints what he calls “an old fella, warming his feet next to the fire.” Of course, no one watched “The Joy of Painting with Bob Ross” for the plot twists. We watched it to see a painting emerge, in real time, from the brush of a calm, soothing man with awesome hair. Over the course of his PBS show, which aired from 1983 to 1994, that awesome hair didn't change. The late Mr. Ross might have called it a “happy little bush”. So the question isn't why is Chia introducing a new Bob Ross Chia Pet in 2017? But why are we only getting a Bob Ross Chia Pet in 2017? Now, the Chia Pet people have not answered that. On the website, they just say the company has finally produced a terra cotta Bob Ross head, and they provided instructions on how to grow Chia on it. Although, there is an interesting fact on the site: unlike his preferred subject matter, Mr Ross's hairstyle was not natural. It was a perm, which might seem disappointing at first. But he made no secret of having an aesthetic. And really, he did it as much for us as for himself. So congratulations Chia on your long overdue product. A fitting tribute because now we can sit and watch as Bob Ross's head itself produces a happy little cloud.

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August 4, 2017 episode transcript

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