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The AIH Transcript for June 29, 2017

Hosts: Laura Lynch and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

LAURA LYNCH: Hello I'm Laura Lynch.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

LL: The other shoe drops. when the BC election left the provincial Liberals with a minority, the government's future was in question. We'll bring you the latest after a dramatic day of the leg.

JD: A captor’s audience. Yesterday, a Toronto Star editor spent 45 minutes on the phone with an agitated man who had taken a woman hostage at a local massage parlor. Tonight, that journalist tells us how he navigated that conversation out of line on.

LL: Out of line online. A BC man is found guilty of criminally harassing his ex-wife through a website designed to ruin her life. And while that's provided some vindication, she says the bottom line is she wants to site off line.

JD: A misdiagnosis with a near-miss result. A soon-to-be-mother files a complaint, after she is accidentally given what she believes was a labor-inducing drug by her gynecologist — pills that were meant for another patient.

LL: Cardinal sin. An abuse survivor says his faith in the Catholic Church has been shaken, after one of the most senior officials of the Vatican, Cardinal George Pell is charged with sexual assault in Australia.

JD: And… affirmation overload. If you're looking for inspirational quotes to motivate you, you may not want to visit the artificial intelligence site known as “InspiroBot”, which just told me. “You must always try to slap what society finds unslappable.” As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that frankly questions its motivations.

[Music: Theme]

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Part 1: Star hostage call, BC confidence setup, gynecologist mistake

Star hostage call

Guest: Doug Cudmore

JD: Doug Cudmore was expecting a pretty typical day at work yesterday. Instead, the Toronto Star editor spent around 45 minutes on the phone with a man who said he had taken a woman hostage at a massage parlor. Here is what the conversation sounded like at one point.

SOUNDCLIP

MAN ON PHONE: You know I am not going to hurt you.

DOUG CUDMORE: Buddy, I'll be honest with you, I'm worried about you. I'm worried about Hannah. I'm worried that the police are involved. I'm worried that weapons are involved. We'd like to talk to you about your story. I'm just wondering if we can get to a situation where we can talk about this in a calmer situation than we got going on right now?

MAN ON PHONE: Just listen, I want it exposed, right. I really, really, do because I know what I'm doing is a crime. I know that, right?

JD: We reached Doug Cudmore in Toronto.

LL: Mr. Cudmore, listening to that call today you heard the hostage taker, you heard the woman who was being held hostage, and you trying to react to the situation. When you listen to that now how do you reflect on what happened?

DC: I'm surprised at how hard it is to actually listen to that again. To be honest with you, at the time, it was just all unfolding so quickly that I was just kind of going by whatever gut instincts I had. It's almost harder to listen to now than it was at the actual time.

LL: Take us back to yesterday, when all this started to unfold. How did you end up on the phone with this man?

DC: So what happened is we have kind of a central news desk in the newsroom. And I sit there. I run the business coverage, a lot of our courts and crime coverage, some health issues and other things. I sit next to the breaking news editor. And then we have a separate room called our “radio room”, and that's where a young journalist sits there they monitor radio, TV, police announcements and whatnot to kind of get a sense of what's going on right now. And that's also where people can call into the newsroom. So this gentleman called in yesterday and she took the call. And she smartly realized that he said he had a hostage and she could hear somebody in the background. So she came out and told her boss, Jen Quinn, who sits next to me that there's somebody on the phone who sounds like they have a hostage. So Jen got up right away and went right into the newsroom got the quick assessments and then came back out to her desk and called the police. And I was just sitting next to her, the day was starting, and I just asked is there anything I can do to help you out? And she said well if you could go in and help out Fakia that would be great. So I just went into the room and saw the saw the phone sitting there and just thought well you know I'm a senior editor here maybe I should just jump into the situation. All I really knew at that point was there was a man on the phone who said he had a hostage. And I just kind of jumped in and started talking to him.

LL: What did he tell you about why he taken this woman hostage?

DC: What he said was that he felt like he had been pushed by a number of things and by life circumstances. I guess he had felt that he had been pushed over the edge and that he was trying to get people to listen to his story. And I guess he felt this was the way that he could get people to pay attention to what he wanted to say. And so that's kind of how I took it.

LL: In your conversation though he also talked about how he thought he was being monitored by the authorities. What can you tell us about that?

DC: I guess all I can say about that is that's what he said. And, at that point my, thinking was just I want to keep the situation calm. I want to keep the hostage safe. I want to keep him safe. I want to keep the police who are responding safe. So I just let him tell the story that he had to tell. I think it would take a lot of reporting, a lot of interviewing to find out what the story was. But I just felt at that moment I needed to let him say what his story was. You know I can't really speak clearly to events beyond how he told them because I don't really know. Does that make sense?

LL: Yeah, you did ask him though in the course of the conversation whether he had weapons. What did he say?

DC: Yeah, he said he had a weapon. And then I further asked him can you tell me what kind of weapon it is? At this point, you know I'm trying to assess how safe the situation is? How safe everybody is there? So I did ask him he did tell me he had a weapon but he wouldn't tell me what kind of weapon it was. So there I didn't want to assume the worst but I had to kind of think it could be the worst, which really is kind of how I really focused on keeping him calm so that everybody could get out of there safely.

LL: Now did he end up having a weapon?

DC: I don't know that for sure. I know as the latest I've heard, he is not facing a weapons charge, but I think that police would be able to answer that better than I could.

LL: How did this situation… and it ended happily. Well, I mean I can't I guess I can't say happily. It ended safely. I talked to him for about over 45 minutes before the police got involved on our end. And then they took it from there and eventually they passed the conversation over to an officer who was on site, who was able to get him out not too long after I'd finished talking to him — probably within the hour. He's in custody and facing charges. The woman he was holding hostage is out. I haven't talked to her. It was a rough situation for me; I can only assume it was way rougher for her. But fortunately, as far as I know, there was nobody came to any harm which is kind of how I wanted things to go.

LL: When you say it was a rough situation for you how did it affect you?

DC: I guess at the time it didn't really affect me, but after it was over and while I was waiting for the police to kind of finish things up I kind of realized that there were potentially a couple of people who had their lives in my hands. And that it really, really, mattered to me that everybody both the alleged hostage taker, the hostage and the police who are on the scene got out OK. And honestly, I couldn't rest until I knew that that had ended. And then I don't know I guess the nervous tension kind of started to let go and I realized I was kind of connected to a lot of people that I didn't expect to be connected to when I came in to work that day.

LL: No kidding. I don't know how much you can help us with this. But Toronto Police have charged a man named Michael Storms with forcible confinement and uttering threats. What have you been able to learn about this man since yesterday?

DC: I'll be honest with you I mean our reporters are working very hard to flesh out this story. I've kind of removed myself from that end of it because I feel like I'm part of the story. So I don't think I should be part of the reporting, if that makes sense? But I believe they are working hard to flesh out as much as they can about this story.

LL: OK well, thank you very much for telling the story of what had been an incredibly unusual day at work.

DC: For sure. Thank you very much for talking to me.

LL: Bye bye.

DC: Bye.

JD: Doug Cudmore is an editor with the Toronto Star. We reached him in Toronto.

[Music: Rock]

BC confidence set up

Guest: Richard Zussman

JD: Tonight, the BC Liberals may very well lose the confidence of the house. And if they do, the province could be heading right back to the polls. Or it could have a brand new premier, without a brand new election. That decision lies in the hands of BC’s Lieutenant Governor. Richard Zussman is CBC's legislative reporter for British Columbia. We reached Richard in Victoria.

LL: Richard, who is running British Columbia right now?

RICHARD ZUSSMAN: Yeah, it’s Premier Christy Clark, Laura, but that very well could change today. She is in charge. She had the most seats after the May 9th provincial election that was almost two months ago. And she's been in charge since then. But tonight, the confidence of the house will be tested. And if she loses that vote then she will have to make a visit to the Lieutenant Governor's house, which is expected to happen today. And at that point, a few things could unfold, but the likelihood is that BC will either be going back to an election or the left tenant governor will last the NDP leader John Horgan to attempt to get the confidence of the BC legislature and then he could become premier is early as tonight.

LL: Let's go through this step by step then. So non-confidence vote later today and you said they will lose. Are they expected to lose the vote?

RZ: Yeah, that's the expectation. We've heard this all along from Premier Christy Clark that she expects to lose. And all along I mean from the point in which the NDP and the Greens signed an agreement. So after the election, there were 43 liberal MLAs, 41 NDP MLAs and three green MLAs. The Greens decided to side with the NDP in a partnership agreement that they signed. And since then, the Liberals have been waiting until today. They believe that they won't be able to flip one of the NDP or Green MLAs to vote with them on their throne speech. And then if that vote goes through as expected and the liberals are defeated, it ultimately means that Premier Christy Clark has lost the confidence of the House.

LL: And he has to go and see the Lieutenant Governor at that point?

RZ: She does and she says she wants to do it as soon as possible. We also have a little bit of a sense of what she's going to be saying to the Lieutenant Governor. Constitutional experts across this country say that premiers in this situation basically have two options: either show up and resign and say you know go ahead Lieutenant Governor and pick someone else to govern. In this case it would be the NDP leader John Horgan. Or Clark could ask for a disillusion, which would lead to an election in BC. But Clark is going for a third option that most constitutional experts I’ve spoken to have never even heard of. And that option is she will go to the Lieutenant Governor’s and not provide any advice. But what she'll do is she will take questions. So she said oh, I expect the left and the governor may be curious about if I believe that the Green/NDP alliance is stable? And I will say I do not believe it's stable because of what's unfolded here in Victoria over the last week. And there's been a number of things in terms of rulings on the role of the speaker and the Greens and NDP voting against legislation that they actually agree with for political reasons. It's been a very interesting week that's led up to this. So Clark will take this third option, and then at that point, it's up to the Lieutenant Governor without this advice from the Premier to make a decision on what happens next.

LL: Right, and that Lieutenant Governor, Judith Guichon is being put in an unusual position. What is she expected to do?

RZ: That's the big question, Laura. We have no idea, right? So she is being consulted by constitutional experts as well in terms of looking at what has happened in Canada in these situations. But again, nobody has ever heard of a premier not offering advice. So there are lots of tricky issues here about whether it be constitutional for a Right, and that Lieutenant Governor, Judith Guichon is being put in an unusual position to make a ruling without the advice of a first minister, in this case Premier Christy Clark. So we may have a decision as early as tonight. We may have to wait until tomorrow. Or we may have to wait until after the long weekend.

LL: Richard, why has Premier Clarke held on to power this way when it was evident within weeks after the election that she was not going to have the majority of seats in the legislature?

RZ: Very simply put it is herright. Liberals have long said we have the right to do this — to test the confidence. There was a sense at one point that the Liberals may have thought that they could convince a Green or an NDP MLA to switch over and therefore Clark could continue to govern. The other theory that's being floated around is that ultimately Christie Clark does not want to serve in opposition and that this strategy is their only opportunity to trigger an election. Her office is adamant that she does not want an election but a lot of her actions seem to indicate that that's exactly what she wants to happen.

LL: Richard, we've been talking about the alliance between the NDP and the Greens. Just how fragile is it?

RZ: I don't think it's particularly fragile. I actually think it's getting stronger with all of this going on from the Liberals. I believe that the Greens and the NDP have gotten closer in terms of frustration around the way that things are being governed. So I don't believe there's any holes in this alliance, but there are still questions about whether the numbers work out? And you could have one MLA who misses a vote and ultimately it leads to the crumbling of the legislature if it's during a confidence vote. Or one MLA who's disappointed that they're left out of cabinet and revolts against the leader and decides to flip sides that could lead to the demise of the government. So it is very fragile, especially considering the current Liberal speaker is expected to resign if the Liberals lose the confidence of the house forcing the Greens and NDP to put up one of their own as speaker. So I don't believe they are divided amongst themselves, but I do believe that it's such a slim majority that anything you know just, politicians are human beings, Laura. You know that we all know that and they can make a decision at any point, in this case, every single vote matters because of how close it is.

LL: Predictions? What do you think?

RZ: No, I’m not in the predictions business anymore, Laura. This is one of these things where nobody's ever seen this before. This is unprecedented in Canadian history. A province this large, with a vote this close, in a House so divided with a Lieutenant Governor not getting any advice from a Premier. I don't even know where you'd start if you were to make a prediction because it wouldn't be based on anything. It would be based on your gut and because this really has no precedent. We have never seen this before.

LL: As I say you are a wise man Richard, thank you very much.

RZ: Thanks, Laura.

LL: Bye bye.

JD: Richard Zussman is the British Columbia legislative reporter for CBC. We reached him in Victoria.

[Music: Vancouver Divorce by Gord Downie/ Rock]

Gynecologist mistake

Guest: Serissa McKay

JD: Serissa McKay is expecting her first child in mid-July. And like a lot of soon-to-be mothers, the 21-year-old was nervous. But an experience at her doctor's office last week made MS McKay downright terrified. Ms. McKay went to see her gynecologist for some tests. During that appointment, a doctor gave her medication that was not meant for her. A medication she believes is commonly used for medical abortions. The mistake was caught in time, but it left Ms. McKay worrying for her baby's well-being. We reached Serissa McKay in Winnipeg.

LL: Ms. McKay, take me back to last week's appointment. Why had you gone to visit your gynecologist?

SERISSA MCKAY: So it was to do an exam about group B strep, which I wasn't too familiar with.

LL: Why did you expect them to be looking at Group B strep?

SM: She did give me a small paper that just says it's a bacteria that lives in the vagina of approximately 30 percent of women. So it's just I guess a check up on if the baby will need extra help afterwards.

LL: So you got there. What did they explain to you when you arrived?

SM: As soon as I got there, my boyfriend went directly to the bathroom and I went into the waiting room. And the receptionist came right up to me immediately and she handed to me two different Ziploc bags and each had four tablets each. And she stated that I would take one of the bags with the four tablets right now and then we would do it again in 12 hours. And she gave me paper to get blood work on Monday. Assuming that it was a part of you know the exam that I was supposed to do since this is my first time doing anything like this. I was just instructed to go into the bathroom and actually insert the tablets you know into my vagina.

LL: OK, so you go into the bathroom and you're doing that. And then what happens?

SM: And I get the phone call from the front desk, which I thought was pretty strange because I just talked to them. She essentially asked me if I was Serissa? I said yes. And she asked me if I just came into the office? And I said yes I did. And then she said have I taken the medication yet? I said yes to that. And she said OK, I'm going to need you to come back in immediately.

LL: And when you went back to the clinic what did they say to you?

SM: The receptionist actually stated that the medication was meant for a different patient who had recently had a miscarriage. She stated that she thought that I would know that that was not my medication. But at the time it's like if she didn't know how am I supposed to know?

LL: So what was your reaction at that moment?

SM: I was in complete shock of what happened. The receptionist just said I'll take you into the examination room and the doctor will be with you as soon as possible.

LL: Now, at any point in this did anyone tell you what drug you had actually taken.

SM: No, later in the appointment Actually I tried to ask about it and asked about with side effects. And the doctor kind of just skipped over the first question and just told me about the side effects.

LL: They obviously had to act fast. They got you right into an examination room. They got the doctor. Did they get the medicine — the pills — out of your system?

SM: Yeah, she actually did it pretty quickly so it was kind of painful because she had to move fast. She counted as she was taking them out, all four tablets. And she actually had to like wipe and try get all the medication out, which was pretty painful also. And I actually had to ask her you know what just happened. What did I take? Should I be watching for anything? And she stated that I should be watching for labour symptoms and cramping. And that if any of those happened that I were to come back in immediately.

LL: All right. Since this experience what have you learned about what drug you were given that day?

SM: Looking it up based on what she has told me I had the pill number at the time. I don't remember it now. The description and what it was used for and then that's when it came up as misoprostol. And just reading about it kind of it really scared me.

LL: And it's called misoprostol, is that correct?

SM: Yes.

LL: And what is it?

SM: A pill to induce labour for woman who have had miscarriages. And it said that it wasn't supposed to be used for pregnant women. Other side effects could include you know abortion, pre-term labor and birth defects if used in pregnant woman.

LL: Now how can you be so certain that that's what you were given?

SM: I have contacted my family doctor to least received the medical file so I can see what the pill was. If they had written it down. I'm still unsure. Like I haven't really stated for sure that that's what I have taken.

LL: Now we reached out to the clinic to get a comment but we didn't get a response. How have they responded to you through all of this?

SM: I wrote down what happened in the appointment. Next day I tried to call the manager to see if I could switch doctors. The manager didn't seem too concerned with the actual complaint. She was more concerned about just trying to switch doctors this late in pregnancy.

LM: your baby is due very, very, soon. I'm betting that this has not been easy for you and your boyfriend. How are you feeling about this whole experience?

SM: We're just really watching all of the symptoms that I've been having. Actually I got a phone call earlier today that I actually have a new obstetrician which you know relieves a bit of pressure there. But yeah, my family they've been really worried. Normally we would just talk every second or third day. Now it's every day, every morning, every evening checking if everything is still alright. To be honest, I'm like super angry that you know the doctor has not apologized so far when I received the phone call from her. At this point it's kind of like what can I do other than try and make complaints and try and get her understanding of what happened and that it was a big thing.

LL: Are you worried at all about whether the medication will have an effect on the baby.

SM: Oh yeah, definitely. It's just something that we kind of have to wait and watch for.

LL: Ms. McKay, I understand it must be a stressful situation for you. But I hope everything goes smoothly next month. Thanks for speaking with us.

SM: Thank you.

LL: Good luck. Bye bye.

SM: bye bye.

JD: Serissa McKay is a mother-to-be in Winnipeg. Ahe is expecting her first child mid-July. We reached her in Winnipeg via Skype. We did contact the clinic where Mrs. Mackay is a patient. We did not receive a response.

InspiroBot

[Music: You’re the Inspiration by Chicago/ Classic rock]

JD: Chicago “You're the Inspiration”. Now, you may not be inspired by that song about inspiring that singer. Despite his syntactically complicated assertion that he wants to have you hear him say that no one needs you more than he needs you. And if Chicago is not cutting it, you just know there has to be a powerful motivational tool somewhere out there on the Internet. So if you type “inspiration” into Google, the ninth result is something called “Inspirobot”. You click through and you see a picture of what looks like a single green camera lens/robot eye and a mission statement quote, “I'm InspiroBot. I am an artificial intelligence dedicated to generating unlimited amounts of unique inspirational quotes for endless enrichment of pointless human existence.” Unquote. So you get the feeling that maybe InspiroBot is not 100 per cent serious. And that's before you click on the button to generate a generically inspiring photograph and a unique inspirational quote. And you get a photo of a couple on a beach accompanied by the powerful words “Music is not really there.” Or you get a picture of the Earth from space and the uplifting slogan “Your mother is just a meaningless moment riding into the sun.” Now obviously, Inspirobot is a joke… I assume. Because this close up of someone doing a Rubik's Cube accompanied by the quote, “Sound can sometimes be like a dream walking backwards.” Inspires only confusion. Still, if posters of desperate kittens clinging to ropes urging you to “Hang in there, kitty!” aren't helping, you could do worse than Inspirobot. After all, inspiration comes in many forms or as InspiroBot itself wisely says… over a picture of a soaring pelican, “Inspiration is just morning dew from hell.” And if that baffles you, InspiroBot has an answer for that too. Quote ,”If you are not letting yourself enjoy the inexplicable, you are an imbecile.”

Back To Top »

Part 2: Online harassment, Cardinal charges

Online Harassment

Guest: Desiree Capuano

JD: For the first time in quite a long time, Desiree Capuano is breathing a sigh of relief. Ms. Capuano is the ex-wife of Patrick Fox — previously known as Richard Riess. Yesterday, a BC Supreme Court jury found Mr. Fox guilty of criminal harassment against Ms. Capuano. It is the culmination of a nasty battle that Mr. Fox had waged against Ms. Capuano for years, mostly through a hateful website that he had published with the sole purpose of destroying her reputation. The Crown attorney in this case told the jury that through this website, Mr. Fox falsely accused his wife of being a white supremacist, a child abuser and a drug addict. But despite Ms. Capuano’s one of his many attempts to have the site shut down, it is still up and running. Today, Desiree Capuano lives far away from Vancouver in Sahuarita, Arizona. And that is where we reached her.

LL: Ms. Capuano, how did it feel to learn that your ex-husband had been found guilty of criminal harassment?

DESIREE CAPUANO: Honestly the only emotion that I could really pinpoint was gratitude. I was very grateful for everyone who worked so hard for that verdict, and just an amazing sense of relief.

LL: Were you surprised at all?

DC: Yes, I am. I left work early. I couldn't stop crying all day. I kept playing through what my life would be like if he was acquitted and how I wouldn't be able to handle that. I was scared to death.

LL: Earlier this month, you actually went to Vancouver and you testified in the courtroom against Patrick Fox. How would you describe that experience?

DC: It was humiliating and terrifying. One of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I was alone. It felt like I was defending myself. It was really hard. I've had to be on the defensive against this man for so many years, so many times. I always feel like I'm having to defend myself and having to prove what I've had to live with the past few years is truly as awful as it has been.

LL: In the courtroom though. Can you can you describe the scene for me? I understand there was a special set up.

DC: Yes, there were screens that were set up so that I could not see the courtroom. And he was not able to see me. So it was a direct line to the jury and the judge and the prosecution. That was it. I don't know that I would have been able to get through it if he had been staring at me the whole time.

LL: And then at one point though you did have to face him in court.

DC: I did. After the first two days of testifying, Richard refused to acknowledge that he was the same person in my testimony and he made me point him out in court. So they removed one of the two screens and I had to look around the screen at him and identify him and he looked right at me.

LL: That must have been an incredibly difficult moment?

DC: I was holding my breath the whole time. And just did what I had to do.

LL: Well, it appears that your testimony along with everything else managed to culminate in a guilty verdict. when we spoke to you a year ago when he was first charged, you talked to us about the kind of harassment that your ex-husband has subjected you to. I don't want to go all the way through it, but can you give us some idea about the website and what it said about you?

DC: The website is the core of the harassment. Spinning up a story of who I am and how deplorable I am. white trash, meth-head, pot-head, child abuser. There's letters to any potential employers where he uses those profane disgusting language. There are things of my fiancé up on the website and veiled threats. It’s truly disgusting.

LL: During the trial, the Crown attorney described to the jury how your ex-husband used your teenage son as a pawn as another way of harassing you. How did he do that?

DC: The simplest and most obvious is that he would gather information about me from my son. He would just in normal conversation identify things that my son didn't know to not say. He was just talking to his dad. But Richard would take these bits of information and collect them and then he would use them against me. One of them was a picture of me and my bathrobe where he had my son take a picture of me in my bathrobe. I didn't know he was on the phone with his father at the time. The day after he took the picture, it was up on the website. The other way that he would use my son is that he would constantly try to turn him against me. He would tell him things and make him fearful about everything that happened in my home. Where my son and I have a strong good relationship, he would come back from his father's a total stranger. And it would be a lot of a lot of work to bring him back around.

LL: How is your relationship with your son now?

DC: Very strong. He's grown to maturity level, a point in age, where he understands everything that his father's been doing. I think a lot of the years that his father spent doing the harassing my son was just too young to truly understand what it meant. And as he's gotten more mature, he's understood social media, cyber bullying and the type of harassment and the threats and the fear that I live with every day.

LL: This verdict is obviously going to hurt Patrick Fox, but it's done nothing to the website that he created. And it’s still the first result that comes up when you do a Google search of your name. What steps have you taken to get the website taken down?

DC: I've gone through many steps, but so far they have all been in vain. The website is currently hosted in Iceland, and under their law they are not obligated to take it down. Their laws protect that website there. I know that the RCMP has reached out to the officials there to see what can be done. I will continue to try. I will not give up.

LL: When we last spoke to you, you corrected us and we said that you seem to be doing better. You said no, but you were managing. You were coping. How are you doing now?

DC: Now I'm doing better. The last year knowing where his location is. Knowing that he can't get on to the internet. Knowing he can't update the website has given me the ability to breathe. For the first time in a long time just live. It has truly been a blessing. Realizing how close I was to having to give it up again is part of what makes the relief so great about this verdict. I still have some time before I have to live in fear again.

LL: Ms. Capuano, I wish you and your son nothing but better days ahead. Thank you.

DC: Thank you so much.

Goodbye.

DC: Bye.

JD: Desiree Capuano is the ex-wife of Patrick Fox, who was found guilty of criminal harassment yesterday in Vancouver. We reached MS Capuano in Sahuarita, Arizona. And there is more on this story on our web site: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Strings]

Teepee protest

JD: As Parliament Hill is gearing up for its massive Canada 150 celebrations, a group of indigenous people arrived with their own contribution: a tepee. Last night, they tried to perform a ceremony and put up the teepee. Initially, they were stopped by police and some were detained. Eventually, the teepee was put up and it remains on Parliament Hill as a symbol of reoccupation, and as a counterpoint to the celebrations of Canada's anniversary. Here are some sounds and voices from the teepee raising last night courtesy of CBC's “Ottawa Morning”.

SOUNDCLIP

PROTESTOR: We came here to put up our teepee. To go into ceremony for our water protectors. We brought our teepee here and they won’t let us put it up on Parliament Hill. We brought our teepee here. There's people from all parts of Canada that came here to put this teepee up for ceremony. And they won't even let us through the gates of Parliament Hill. What a disgrace! What a disgrace Canada is to our own people and our own land! It's disgraceful. Why are you doing this?

PROTESTOR: Our people continue to suffer. It’s out there trying to fight for our babies’ future.

PROTESTOR: Canadians celebrating Canada Day, they’re standing with the government and celebrating the cultural genocide that they performed on us, you know? And they're continuing. It is not a historical thing. They always want to put us back in history saying like oh, that happened, get over it. But no, it's still an ongoing thing because we have the highest rates of suicide. We have the highest rates of incarceration. You name it you know and that's us. Our people are still suffering because of this government you know, so that's why we're here. This is an invitation to witness to how we get treated. Please, as a settler here on Turtle Island, think about where you are. Think about how you can have integrity moving forward, right? You know, our people deserve to be treated better than this because all we ever do is fight for the earth, fight for the land, you know? And that's for everyone.

JD: Those are the voices of protesters Sophie Gunner-Sackabushkum and Candace Day-Neveau on Parliament Hill last night. We'll have more on Indigenous peoples response to Canada 150 on tomorrow's show.

[Music: Country]

Cardinal charged

Guest: Peter Saunders

JD: After the pope, he is one of the most powerful men in the Vatican. And now, Cardinal George Pell is facing a possible fall from grace. He has been charged in Australia with multiple counts of sexual assault. Police have not yet released the details of his alleged crimes. Cardinal Pell has maintained his innocence, and will return to Australia to face the charges. Peter Saunders is an abuse survivor and a member of Pope Francis's commission on clergy sexual abuse. We reached Mr. Saunders in London.

LL: Mr. Saunders, did you expect that formal charges of sexual abuse could reach so high in the Catholic Church to implicate someone like Cardinal George Pell?

PETER SAUNDERS: There was a time when I doubted that we would see somebody of the stature and position of a Cardinal Pell, and certainly a cardinal in the Vatican, being charged with such serious offenses. But over the last year or two, and knowing something about the tenacity of the Australian police and the Australian authorities and the many victims or alleged victims I should say who have come forward. I wasn't entirely surprised that this man has now been charged with these offenses.

LL: And we don't know the details of what Cardinal Pell has been accused of yet. But he has been close to abuse allegations in the past, stemming from his time in the city of Ballarat. Can you tell me about what was going on in that city when he was posted there?

PS: When he was there, and he has admitted this himself. He certainly was responsible for overseeing other priests who abused children in the town of Ballarat, a town that has been blighted by this scourge. And where the Catholic school — the Catholic boys school — has suffered an unbelievable number of suicides — quite unprecedented the number of suicides from boys who were children who attended that school. And these all came within the scope of the archbishop or the bishop or indeed whatever he was back then in Ballarat.

LL: Now, there have also been accusations that he protected clergy members who were later convicted of abuse. What can you say about that?

PS: Well again, he himself when he was finally kind of cornered in the Royal Commission. When he gave his evidence via a video link to the Royal Australian Royal Commission he admitted, well he said, that he believed the abusing priests over the victims, which is just you know quite startling. But tmay be not so surprising given his history and many of the other comments that he's made about this issue, some of which are very well documented. So we can't say too much about the upcoming trial because the last thing that any of us can do is in any way to prejudice a fair trial for him. And I say that on behalf of the alleged victims rather than on behalf of George Pell.

LL: Pope Francis has promised to root out sexual offenders in the church and to no longer protect abusers. So how much do you think these charges call into question his commitment?

PS: Well, we will have to wait and see. But I would expect Pope Francis, given everything that he has said, I fully expect Pope Francis to carry the Cardinal Pell to the plane and make sure that he's packed off back to Australia to answer these charges. Because the pope has indicated that justice has to take its course. And that's precisely what hopefully is going to happen in the coming weeks. So you know we'll see whether the pope will put his money where his mouth is and ensure that George Pell you know faces his accusers and it deals with the matter. Because the pope has had a lot of things to say about this issue, but saying things and making the right sound bites isn't the same as instituting change and driving the abuses out of the church. And sadly, very few abusers within our church, which is the Catholic Church; very few have been driven out, let alone handed over to the police or records handed over to the police. And that's something that we've been saying for many years.

LL: Now, you've had a rather special position in all of this — a seat — to watch these issues unfold. You're a member of Pope Francis's commission on clergy sexual abuse. Do you think that this issue is being taken seriously within the church?

PS: You know, I am a member of that papal commission. I am on my leave of absence as you may know because I was deemed to be too outspoken. And back in March this year, the only other survivor on the papal commission, Mary Collins, from Ireland resigned. And one of the reasons she resigned she cited this as being that the Vatican officials were obstructive and not really interested in this subject. And I tend to agree with her.

LL: Well, then why don’t you resign too?

PS: I was asked to resign, and I said that I would only resign if I was asked to do so by his holiness or if the pope sacked me. and neither of those things have happened. So I remain a member of the papal commission. I have a sneaking suspicion that some members on the papal commission may be quietly pleased that I am still technically a member because that gives me a voice, which of course if I were to resign I would no longer have that voice potentially.

LL: Are you still a practicing Catholic.

PS: That's a good question. Do I go to mass? Sometimes I do. I am what I call — I hope — a practicing Christian. I believe in the power of God. I believe in Jesus. I believe in the resurrection. My faith in the institution of the Catholic Church as most people understand it has pretty much been demolished. But the majority of Catholics are good, decent people, as indeed are many of the clergy. So I call myself a Catholic because I am a Christian, but it's about a relationship that I have with God. Not with some of the strange men that have inhabited that institution now called the Roman Catholic Church.

LL Mr. Saunders, I thank you for your time.

PS: You're very, very, welcome.

LL: Goodbye.

PS: Goodbye.

JD: Peter Saunders is an abuse survivor, and a member of Pope Francis's commission on clergy sexual abuse. We reached him in London.

[Music: Drumheller by Caribou/ Ambient]

Trump tweets

JD: One day, he is complimenting the quote, “nice smile” of an Irish reporter — a woman. Another day he is mocking the looks and the temperament of a cable television host. Also, not coincidentally, a woman. This morning, U.S. president Donald Trump took to Twitter to taunt Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough. They have been critical of President Trump on their MSNBC program “Morning Joe”. And in a series of tweets, the President of the United States wrote quote, “I heard a poorly rated ‘Morning Joe’ speaks badly of me. Don't watch anymore. Then how come low IQ, crazy Mika, along with Psycho Joe, came to Mar-a-Lago three nights in a row around New Year's Eve and insisted on joining me. She was bleeding badly from a facelift. I said no!” Unquote. After the tweets were sent, Ms. Brezinski hit back. On Twitter, she posted a photograph of a Cheerios box that has the phrase quote, “made for little hands.” It was of course a dig at Mr. Trump, who has long been sensitive about the size of his hands. Other Republican lawmakers, including Senator Susan Collins and Representative Lynn Jenkins, expressed their disappointment with the President's statements. But hours later, Mr. Trump's deputy press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, defended his tweets in an interview with John Roberts on Fox News. When he asked her whether the president had gone too far, here's what she said.

SOUNDCLIP

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS: I don't think so. I mean I think that the president has been attacked mercilessly on personal accounts by members on that program. And I think he's been very clear that when he gets attacked, he's going to hit back. I think the American people elected somebody who's tough, who's smart and who's a fighter and that's Donald Trump. And I don't think that it's a surprise to anybody that he fights fire with fire. The things that this show has called him, and not just him but numerous members of his staff including myself and many others, are very deeply personal. So to then turn and pretend like you know this approaches… I guess it's kind of like we're living in the twilight zone. They do this day after day, after day, and then the President responds and defends himself and everybody is appalled and blown away. Frankly, if this had happened in the previous administration the type of attacks launched on this program the things they say “utterly stupid”, “personality disorder”, “mentally ill”, constant personal attacks calling multiple members liars to their faces while they're sitting on their programs. The rest of the media would have said guys, no way. Hold on. But nobody does that. But the President, he's not going to step back. He's showed that and that's exactly what he did today.

JOHN ROBERTS: A couple of the criticisms from supporters of the President have been this particular tweet was beneath the dignity of the office. Where does the President draw the line on the dignity of the office?

SHS: Look, I think that he shows that every day in the decisions that he's making,the focus and the priorities he's laid out in his agenda. But he's not going to sit back and be attacked by the liberal media, Hollywood elites and when they hit him he's going to hit back.

JD: That was deputy White House spokesperson Sarah Huckabee Sanders speaking with reporter John Roberts during a press briefing earlier today.

[Music: Ambient]

Cockatoo drumming

JD: It has long been thought that humans are the only animals capable of creating a rhythm with instruments like drums. And, for that matter, being the only animals remotely interested in drawn-out, showy-offy drum solos. But new research suggests that dropping beats may not be a unique human capacity after all. Scientists observing palm cockatoo's in northern Australia have recorded the males performing drawn-out, showy-offy drum solos using sticks and pods. It would of course be the males. The researchers observed these birds for seven years, recording more than 130 drum solos. And they say the males showcases skill in front of females in an effort to win them over. The birds sometimes even have their own signature drumming patterns, much like human musicians. Here is one palm cockatoo the researchers named “Ringo”.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: A bird drumming]

JD: It does have a Ringo-esque quality. Researchers say female birds who are impressed by a drumming performance often go over and mirror the movements of the male commencing a pair bonding process. But they haven't established yet whether females prefer certain beat patterns over others or whether they're just pretending because as one human drummer joke goes “How is a drum solo like a sneeze? You know it's coming, but there's nothing you can do about it.” Hit it Ringo.

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June 29, 2017

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