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The AIH Transcript for June 9, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: Conditions critical. It began with a lightning strike, and with the help of heat and high winds, it's become the worst forest fire in Portugal's history – an enormous inferno that our guest was lucky to survive.

JD: In the path of destruction. Just after midnight, someone drove a van into a group of Muslims leaving a mosque in North London. We're going to speak with a man who arrived just after the terrorist attack.

CO: The bus finally arrives. At long last, regular public transit is available along the Highway of Tears in Northern BC. Our guest, whose cousin went missing on that road more than 20 years ago, says it's a victory for her family.

JD: It was divisive – and anti-divisive. When a math professor sees a sign in a Connecticut deli prohibiting customers from talking about math in line, she initiates an investigation into an act of calculated discrimination.

CO: They came to bury "Caesar", not to praise it. Protesters disrupt a New York production of the Shakespearean tragedy, claiming it glamourizes violence against the right – but our guest says they should have watched the whole thing.

JD: And...a lot of contractions, and a huge expansion. A tiny Irish seaside village of around 550 acquires 30 loud, unruly new citizens in the space of just 10 months – and one new mother attempts to explain the surprising baby boom.
As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that welcomes the new town criers.

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Part 1: Portugal fire, Highway of Tears bus, Irish babies

Portugal fire

Guest: Gareth Roberts

JEFF DOUGLAS: Tonight, firefighters in Portugal are still battling the worst forest fires the country has ever seen. Some horrifying damage has already been done. The death toll has risen to at least 62 people so far many of whom died trapped in their cars as they tried to escape the blaze. The Prime Minister of Portugal said that early efforts to inform residents of the fire were thwarted, because the flames destroyed phone lines and communication towers.
Gareth Roberts managed to escape the fire on Saturday evening. He's from the U.K., but now lives in the Central Portugal village of Macas de Dona Maria. He's now staying at a hotel in nearby Tomar. That's where we reached him, via Skype.

CAROL OFF: Gareth you have had quite the weekend. How are you holding up today?

GARETH ROBERTS: Today I'm a lot better. We're safe, we're in a hotel. We’re keeping an eye on the fire which even as we speak is still raging through the country.

CO: Where were you when you first saw the fires and realized that there was all kinds of trouble coming?

GR: Myself and a friend were traveling by from Spain. Actually we've been on a break about three hours into the journey, we saw this plume, this huge plume of black smoke. Obviously in Portugal, you're used to seeing forest fires. They generally happen at this time of year but this was, it was something else.
Eventually we were we hit a roadblock only just 15 minutes from home or I needed to be. By this stage the fire had come down to the road edge so you could see the flames. The smoke was quite thick. So then the policemen redirected us on a back road if you like to get to where we needed to be.

CO: When did you realize that things were really had really overcome you?

GR: There were maybe five cars in front of us. We were driving up the side of the mountain road and suddenly the wind changed during the journey, which it does here all of the time. The fire appeared on the right hand side. And in less than a minute, it jumped to the left hand side.
There were branches of trees falling down which you had to navigate around. And in less than two minutes, the fire was behind the car, on both sides of the car, and closing in front. All you had to do. You continued driving, there was nowhere else to go.

CO: What were you and your friend thinking at this point? I mean was this something that you thought “Gosh I may not get out?”

GR: Yes. Of course we tried to remain positive at the time. So there’s a strange silence. You don't speak to each other. You both [unintelligible] panicking as much as you are, but neither one wants to sort of show their hand.
You know we carried on and of course we're driving faster and faster, eventually coming to the top of the road into a village where basically the fire greeted us. All three words out we're covered in fire. And we realized we had no option but to park the car there and thankfully that's when we were rescued by a villager.

CO: So you got out of the car, you and your friend left the car and who did you meet?

GR: There was a gentleman in the house opposite. He was also English and he was hosing down the roof and hosing down the walls. And he just shouted “Come inside. My mother has an annex apartment on the ground floor. It's stone walls it's very cool. And he opened his gate and we were in there along with a couple of other local people and several other people who had been in the cars in front of us. You could hear the fire. You could feel you could feel the air. All you could see from the windows were the red embers. It sounds dramatic but it was a fiery tornado. You just, we all fell to the ground to try and breathe through the smoke. It was so so smoky. And I think the moment where I sort of became overwhelmed was when you realized everybody in the room with you was sending text messages and making phone calls to their families saying “This is it. This is the end. I just want to tell you I love you. I’m going to die.”

CO: Did you send someone a message like that?

GR: I actually sent my parents a message. I didn't use the words “I think I'm going to die” because for one, I didn't want to worry them. That's quite the English thing to do, I suppose when faced with death.
But I also thought that if I get out and the networks go down, there's no way for them to know that I'm safe and I didn't want to put them through worry.

CO: And your parents are where?

GR: They live here with me in Portugal in the same house. So this is where I was trying to make my way back to. At the time, the fire hadn't reached them. They'd seen the smoke all day from the house but they had no idea we'd been redirected through the centre of it.

CO: So now you're in this house with other people hoping to survive this fire. How are people reacting in the house?

GR: Some people were wailing. Some people were preying. I myself started to pray thinking this can’t be how it ends. And the lady of the house, the gentleman's mother, whose room it was, just kept talking. She would talk about anything just to keep people's minds, well try to keep the mind off what was happening. But of course during this smoke was think. People were coughing. We had a limited amount of water in the room which we were passing around. And we just had to hope that the roof which was wooden, didn't in any way catch fire. If that would have happened. It would have been the end.

CO: This woman who was your host and trying to keep you all calm, she’s like a bit of a guardian angel in the middle of all this.

GR: There is no doubt in anyone's mind. Had they not shown the generosity and the kindness they did, we would all be dead. And I don't know how you begin to thank somebody who has saved your life. Words are simply not enough.

CO: And when did you realize or feel that you had missed this moment, that you were going to be OK?

GR: You could still hear the fire. You could still smell the smoke. But all of a sudden out of the window, you just saw a few seconds of daylight through the smoke. Up until then, it had been pitch black even though it was relatively early in the evening. And at that stage, I actually opened the door and just went outside.

CO: And how did it look? What was left of the village where this fire tornado had come?

GR: The village was absolutely, apart from strange the two houses that were in, it was all destroyed. Houses had gone, there were there were timbers and rigs burning on the ground. Every tree was black. The best way I can describe it is almost a sort of post-apocalyptic. It was like a living nightmare. I have never seen destruction. And that's one village out of hundreds and hundreds that's been affected. I cannot imagine where we began to clean up and go from here.

CO: Do your parents know you're OK and do you know if your parents are OK?

GR: I do now. We left earlier, around 7:30 the next morning, and as we rejoined the main road to try and head back to the house. I had a signal and I just sent a message saying “Just want to let you know we're safe. We're just trying to make our way back home.”

CO: You must have been so relieved and they must have been so relieved to finally make that connection with you.

GR: My mom of course, she worries. And my dad does worry but at first, he thought I was being overdramatic. Even on the evening when he got the message from me, and he just kept saying to me is it really as bad as he said? And then he saw the news of course and he just couldn't believe that we were part of that. He just, it's one of the few times I had lost the words really.

CO: Gareth, I'm so glad that you're OK and you in someplace safe now. And I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

GR: I appreciate the time you're taking speaking to me. Thank you.

CO: Bye-bye.

GR: Bye.

JD: Gareth Roberts lives in central Portugal. He managed to escape this weekend's devastating fires. We reached him via Skype from a hotel in Tomar, Portugal.

[Music]

Red Symons interview

JD: Beverley Wang knew she was going to be fielding questions about race and racism in a recent interview. She just didn't expect the questions themselves to be racist.
Ms. Wang is a Canadian-born journalist who now works for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, ABC. She recently launched a new podcast about race relations in Australia, called It's Not A Race.
But when Melbourne-based broadcaster Red Symons, who also works on ABC, invited her on his radio show last week, things got awkward and combative.
Here's how Mr. Symons started things off.

SOUNDCLIP

RED SYMONS: What's the deal with Asians?

BEVERLEY WANG: What is the deal?

RS: No well it's just a useful general question about the nature of our culture and how one should, might interact with people who have a different cultural background.

BW: Let's do that right now. Let’s make it a hands on experience, Red. We come from different cultural backgrounds. What's the deal with Asians? Go ahead ask me.

RS: First thing is.

BW: Mmhmm?

RS: Are they all the same.

BW: No.

RS: No [crosstalk] obviously not. OK.

BW: Mmhmm?

RS: You are.

BW: I am.

RS: Are you yellow? So you’re not.

BW: Do I look yellow?

RS: No you don't. You look like pink.

BW: I mean, you look a bit pink. You’re a bit pink.

RS: I know.

BW: Yeah.

RS: Wang, I'm guessing, is Chinese but what does–

BW: No, not Chinese. Taiwanese. Taiwanese.

RS: Right.

BW: And look I've got a mug here that I carry around the ABC with me. It says “It's fun to be Canadian.”

RS: You’re Canadian?

BW: I'm Canadian.

RS: Right on.

BW: Yeah.

RS: Do they speak Mandarin or Cantonese?

BW: Who's they?

RS: The people in Taiwan.

BW: They speak Taiwanese and they speak Mandarin. And in Canada, where I'm from, they speak English and French.

RS: I knew that. But you're probably from the west coast of Canada.

BW: Why do you think that, Red?

RS: Because it's closer to Asia.

BW: I'll just ask. Don’t get defensive.

RS: I’m not. I've got aggressive. Given that you were born in Canada, you were probably named Jenny when you were born.

BW: Jenny?

RS: Beverly.

BW: That's a fair assumption to make read that I was given a name when I was born.

RS: Was Beverly the name you were given?

BW: My name is Beverly. It has been Beverly since birth.

RS: Right. Not chrysanthemum flower.

BW: Is Red your–

RS: Yeah, it’s Redmond.

BW: Redmond. OK.

RS: Now who do you do this podcast with?

BW: No I wasn't named chrysanthemum flower. Or jasmine or peony.

RS: [launghing] Who do you do this podcast with?

BW: Who do I do it with? My guests.

RS: OK.

BW: Is that what you mean?

RS: I thought you would do... it's just you.

BW: I’m the host.

RS: And your guests.

BW: And my guests, yeah.

RS: You’re not doing it as a two head.

BW: No, I’m doing it solo.

RS: Would you be interested in doing it with me?

BW: That's a separate podcast but let's pitch that.

JD: ABC’s Red Symons interviewing Canadian born ABC journalist Beverley Wang on his breakfast radio show in Melbourne. And today, Mr. Symons apologized for that interview. Here's what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

RED SYMONS: Last week on the program, I spoke with Beverley Wang about her new podcast, It's Not a Race. The plan was to take on a serious topic, race and culture, and talk with Beverley about a range of related issues.
I came across as racist and I was wrong in the way I conducted the interview. This is not who I am, but I acknowledge on this occasion, I caused offence and hurt not only to Beverley but also to our listeners. I offer my sincerest apologies. We need to talk about these issues but be careful how consider them.

JD: Red Symons, an Australian Broadcasting Corporation radio broadcaster, offering an apology today to listeners and to journalist Beverley Wang.

[Music]

Highway of Tears bus

Guest: Mary Teegee

JD: It's been a long long time coming. But starting today, regular bus service is available on Northern B.C.'s Highway 16 between Smithers and Prince George.
You will likely be more familiar with that road's other name: The Highway of Tears. The RCMP says that, since 1969, at least 18 women have gone missing or have been killed on the road between Prince George and Prince Rupert. Indigenous leaders say that number is actually closer to 50. Many were last seen hitchhiking.
Mary Teegee's cousin was one of those women. Ramona Wilson went missing in 1994 after trying to hitch a ride along the highway. Her body was found several months later.
Today, Mary Teegee is the executive director of Carrier Sekani Family Services. We reached her in Prince George.

CO: Ms. Teegee, what does it mean for people living in northern B.C. that they will have this bus service now?

MARY TEEGEE: It's really welcome news. I think we can all breathe a sigh of relief because, you know, at least for that stretch of highway, there's no more safe options. And I do believe it's more than just safety, it's also looking at increasing the quality of life because I do believe that where other people get to enjoy, access to services in the north is a bit more difficult. So that bus service will lend itself to really increasing I would say the social determinants of health.

CO: And also I guess it means more mobility. Not just save mobility but if you feel you have a way to get from point A to Point B, this is what's going to do it then.

MT: Yes absolutely because as you know there was a decrease in Greyhound services and the major center in the north is Prince George, so that's why the university is, the college is, the specialists, the doctors appointments and everything. So coming from Burns Lake to Prince George, it's about a three, three and a half hour drive depending on who's driving. But definitely there is that access especially come winter time.

CO: This is personal for you too isn't it because you lost your cousin Ramona in 1994.

MT: Yes. And I do believe, like all the work that we do, you know it's always keeping, not only Ramona, but all the ones that we lost along the highway in front of our minds because we want to ensure this never happens again to another young person or to any person.

CO: Can I ask what happened to Ramona?

MT: She had left her mother's and she was going to meet some friends and she just never showed up, and then eventually almost a year later, her remains were found and she had been murdered. So we still have not, like there's still no closure to that. Still nobody has ever been arrested in that crime.

CO: I'm so sorry. And this is on Highway 16 that she has been traveling.

MT: Yes, in the Smithers area yeah.

CO: And if you didn't have a car, how did you get around if you had to go down on Highway 16?

MT: Well that's there are there are no transit systems right? So you’d either hitchhike, or you know you call somebody up, hopefully you get a ride, or you have to walk. Like there's not a lot of alternatives because of the decrease in the Greyhound and all the services, you know that the transit right now is the only option.

CO: What are the theories people have as to why so many women were killed?

MT: Really when you're looking at the vulnerabilities of our young women, like why are they in those high risk situations, and it is because they deal with vulnerabilities from the impacts of residential schools. There are, you know, there's an increase in you know drug and alcohol is. There's an increase in self-medicating. There's all of these, an increase in that high risk activity because of the impact of residential schools. So when you're looking at why our young people are vulnerable. It's broader than just saying “OK well they're just hitchhiking.” Well why are they hitchhiking? What's going on? And I think when we look at the Highway of Tears recommendations report and broadly across Canada, we really have to look at why are our women vulnerable.

CO: So now you have this part of the bus service, but what about the other half of the highway, between Smithers and Prince Rupert on the coast? Is that is that going to also at some point have service?

MT: Absolutely, there are looking at you know different options. There's discussions, there are some some localized services and you know with the funding that we've just received from the Ministry of Transportation, and then we received some money from the federal government as well. There is a comprehensive transportation strategy that's taking place. We're looking at it, because I am part of that advisory group around the around the transportation. So looking at places where there are gaps in services, what but viable options can we look at to insure those gaps are filled? But it's not just a long stretch of Highway 16 that I am concerned about. I'm concerned about all those little feeder communities in the true north of British Columbia. All these smaller municipalities, First Nations communities are to have access to transportation services to just conduct their life and be able to access services, be able to go shopping, be able to access education services.
So it's broader than just Highway 16. We're definitely concentrating on that. But for sure we can't forget that there are other communities out there that needs access to those same services that the rest of B.C. people enjoy.

CO: This is now something that people were aware as you know for a long time, that there was something dangerous about the highway. And also there was no transportation, no other alternatives. This bus service was first recommended 11 years ago. Why do you think it took so long to finally get the service?

MT: Well I would say like you know, it was the lack of political will. Out of sight out of mind. I mean could you imagine as you know even 18 yet young women went missing in West Vancouver or right out in Ottawa, do you think it would have taken 11 years for them to get a bus service or safe transportation? And for sure it's definitely… when we're talking about the issues about you know, why are young girls vulnerable, the lack of services for First Nations people, it's broader than just that issue because I do believe that you know there's systemic racism. Is it a priority for the politicians to look at

dealing with the First Nations’ issues when their constituents are predominantly non First Nations and predominantly living in the urban setting.
I think for sure it has a lot to do with political will because other than that I don't know what other reason there could be for not acting on that.

CO: Ms. Teegee, it’s good to talk to you. Thank you.

MT: You're welcome.

JD: Mary Teegee is the executive director of Carrier Sekani Family Services. Her cousin Ramona Wilson was murdered on BC's highway of tears in 1994. We reached Ms. Tegee in Prince George, British Columbia.

Irish babies

Guest: Laura Edwards

JD: The tiny seaside village of Rathmullan, Ireland got a baby bump last year. A big baby bump.
Rathmullan's population is approximately 550. Extremely approximately – because 30 babies were born there in the span of 10 months.
Laura Edwards is the mother of baby number 24. We reached Ms. Edwards in Rathmullan.

CO: Laura, what's going on in Rathmullan?

LAURA EDWARDS: I don't know. Some people say literally because we are a coastal town, coastal village, some people say it could be something in the water. Others say it was because we’d had a bad winter the previous year and there was nothing else to do at home. And then other people are saying it's because of the recession, because Ireland’s out of the recession now and people can just afford it. You know, if they were looking to have that third child.

CO: OK so a bad winter and a little bit more money in the pocket and that's enough to say let's do it.

LE: Yes that's it.

CO: So now you know you welcomed the 24th baby of the year. Is that right?

LE: That's right. She was born on the 8th of November.

CO: And so when did you realize that there was this this baby boom going on in Rathmullan.

LE: Just before I announced my pregnancy, my eldest son is at the local primary school here. And every time I go to collect him, I hear that someone else is pregnant, and that someone else was pregnant. And all the moms we were all making a joke and just saying “Oh my God. We're going to have to build an additional classroom.” So once I was over my 12 weeks, I said this again and one of the mom said to me “You must be number 24 I think”.

CO: Now did you talk to your doctor? Was the local hospital aware that there was this so many women who were pregnant?

LE: Actually the day that I said it to my friends, two of them turned to me and said “Well we don't want to steal your limelight but we're expecting to.” So it was actually it was lovely because it was three of us and we were all due within a week of each other. So we were actually due to be in hospital all at the same time because my babies always arrive two weeks late. So I was like don't be holding out for me. Like you go ahead, have your baby whenever you're ready, you know.

CO: Now how small is Rathmullan, the town?

LE: Oh Rathmullan. It's a very small town. It's not even a town, it’s a village. There's about a population of 550.

CO: 550 people.

LE: 550 people, yes. We’ve a main street, we’ve a back street. That’s pretty much it. We’ve one shop. We’ve one butcher’s. We have a takeaway. We have one school as I said, a primary school. Kids have to travel to get to secondary school. So it's very small. It's rural Ireland you may say everybody knows everybody else. So, we were all making a joke of everyone being pregnant. And that’s why whenever I announced my pregnancy, someone turned to me and said there must be something in the water in Rathmullan. So you know I'm not going to drink this. We just joked to people like that.

CO: Well when you figure, it's 550 people and well, only about half of them would be pregnant, or could get pregnant. So you have you're already a smaller number of potential people to get pregnant.

LE: Exactly, yeah.

CO: And so now, I understand that a lot of the babies were born in the summer, so that would that would support the theory that it was something in the middle of the winter that might have, early winter that might have started that off.

LE: Exactly, so that’s why people said it was, it must have been the night the electricity went off and there was nothing else to do at home like–

CO: Was there a night when the electricity went out?

LE: I actually don't know. I can't remember but… I don't know.

CO: So you all got together for Father's Day. All these babies and their parents had a Father’s Day.

LE: We were all invited and the local resource center here and all the parents got an invitation e-mailed to them just saying we’re having coffee and a few nibbles and we want all the babies who were born in 2016 to attend this. And we all just have to go down there with our kids. And one of the gal who works in the resource centre between the [unintelligible]. She has got onto a friend of hers, Deirdre Williamson, and Deirdre does up just three craft with baby’s name on them. So I basically got a block with the letter K on it.

CO: What’s your baby’s name?

LE: K for Kate.

CO: Kate?

LE: And her date of birth on the back. So it was just a lovely touch. It was just it was such a nice gesture because not only are they the 30 babies, they're going to going to school together. They're going to be going possibly to college together. They're going to be graduating in around 10 years. For all we know, some of those 30 babies, they could end up marrying. You know, you just don’t know that.

CO: What's the breakdown between girls and boys?

LE: It's actually it's very funny. You're going to laugh. It's right in the middle, 15, 15.

CO: Something was going on. Well maybe this trend will continue, but we'll catch up with you in about 25 years and see how all this pans out. Laura it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

LE: No problem. No problem. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

LE: Bye-bye now.

JD: Laura Edwards is one of 30 mothers who gave birth to a baby last year in a seaside village of about 550. We reached her in that village, Rathmullan, Ireland.

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Part 2: Finsbury Park attack, Julius Caesar play

Finsbury Park attack

Guest: Ahmed Abubakar

JD: They were filing out into the street after late-night Ramadan prayers in North London when a van ploughed into a group of Muslims near the Finsbury Park mosque. Ten people were injured, in what police are treating as a terrorist attack. One man died, but he had apparently collapsed before the attack, so it's not clear yet whether he was hit by the van.
A 48-year-old man suspected of driving the van was subdued by community members until police arrived. Ahmed Abubakar arrived soon after the attack. His uncle was injured by the van. We reached him in London.

CAROL OFF: Ahmed, where were you when this attack happened?

AHMED ABUBAKAR: I was just about 200 meters away far from exactly where the things happened.

CO: And what did you see when you arrived?

AA: When I came there I have seen already like a lot of people on the floor and people screaming, shouting, asking for help. And this guy, the guy who was driving the van, he was on the phone already by some young boys holding him on the floor and he was screaming saying “I will kill you all of you Muslims”.

CO: And when you say on the floor you mean you were outside right? It was on the ground?

AA: Yes he came from the van and he tried to escape and run away. And unfortunately the road was dead and he was like, he just came toward the people and some young boys just got him on the floor. And I arrived exactly on that time, about one minute or less because I could see the crowd from far away.

CO: Could you see people who had been injured in this at this van attack?

AA: Yeah, I have seen an old man who was laying on the ground and some to, my uncle who I was just with him about five minutes before that, and he was already bleeding. I was really shocked and I went to him and my whole cloth in his head because he was bleeding and he was really shocked and he didn't know anything.
I said to him “Are you OK? Are you OK?”
He said “Yes, I’m OK. I’m OK. What happened?” He didn't know anything about what is going on. I just said to him “Calm down, just sit down, sit down.” I just I was holding his head not to bleed, you know. And I was asking the others to keep away from the people just to give air because the weather was a bit hot yesterday in London.

CO: This van driver he had said “I want to kill Muslims”. Is that what you heard him say?

AA: That’s what he was saying. Yes. That’s what made them so angry. All the young boys around there. You know that's why. And we said we cannot help, we cannot do anything until the police come, they will deal with it. And I was asking the people to move away from injured people because there's a lot of shouting, screaming from the people on the ground. And I was saying “Give them air. Give them air.” You know? And there was one guy underneath the van, and we asked for help, all the young boys to come together to move their van to up and just take underneath the to this man who was underneath the van.

CO: And in the meantime, you're looking at all these injured people who need help, who need medical attention. But you are with some who are holding the man who actually did this attack. And describe that moment. What encounter you had with him.

AA: First time I went to my uncle. Then I asked my brother to hold the like of the bleeding. And then I went like to ask these young boys not to do anything with the man, not to kick him. I just tried to push them away and some other young boys from the mosque did the same thing. And three or four were holding the man on the floor.

CO: What were you concerned that the boys would do, the young men would do?

AA: Because to be honest, this guy he was killing innocent people. An old man, and all those people. And was just screaming about some racist things saying like “I want to kill you all of you guys Muslims and this”. And thhat made them so angry you can’t imagine. Some young boys when they see a killer who is on the floor. They don't do, just they can they will just react so quickly. You know? And we were just trying to say no point of doing this. What’s the point? So I just let the police deal with it.

CO: How is your uncle doing?

AA: We went to you know about three o'clock, we went to two of them hospital, Saint Mary hospital. And they done a scans and they do a lot of things and then we were waiting to hear the news. And they said he broke the bones on his head but luckily they said, brain is not damaged. And he said, there's not any life threatening. And they said we must keep him here to know his situation.

CO: Can you describe the man who had been driving the van?

AA: Yes he was like an Englishman, white guy in late 40s. And then I heard on the news he’s 48. He exactly in that age. Yes.

CO: And how was the man who was driving the van, how is he reacting to all of this, to being held in–

AA: When he was held on the floor, he was just screaming and this with racist things, and he was kicking and that and people just trying to hold his hand and his legs and just hold him on the floor. And this is what he was and he was screaming. And then when the police came, suddenly he changed to a happy man and he was really happy about what he's done. You know, he was laughing and this, you know?

CO: What are people saying and reacting? How are they reacting to this?

AA: People were not to be honest this is like a revenge about what happened in London. You know, people were not feeling safe. And a lot of people even saying we don't think we’re going to come to the mosque again. And exactly we were talking about, Finsbury Park, that is North London, is very like multicultural area. All the people from different colours like living next to each other in a peaceful way. And now people were a bit scared and saying “We don't think we can come to the mosque you know anything could happen because we don't feel we are safe”.

CO: What do you think he should be charged with? What do you hope to see him prosecuted for?

AA: I don't know exactly. There is like you, just the justice. We have got rules and justice in here and they deal with it, is not something that I can help with. All I hope is to be honest. The world it's just becoming crazy nowadays. Something happened in U.K., like France wherever you wherever you open the news, it’s just negative things that you hear. I hope justice will to come together because terrorism, it hasn't got any religion or anything. We just need to be together and then we be strong you know and we can go forward.

CO: And this is an act of terrorism.

AA: Hundred percent. Hundred percent.

CO: Ahmed, I'm glad you're uncle is OK. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

AA: Thank you. Thank you. Bye.

CO: Good night.

JD: We reached Ahmed Abubakar in London.

[Music]

Track records

JD: When Regina's Carol LaFayette-Boyd first started to participate in track-and-field, she was in her fifties. Now, she is 75 years old. And she's dominating.
At a competition last week, Ms. Lafayette-Boyd set world records for her age group in long jump, high jump, triple jump, the 100-metre dash, and the 200-metre dash. I'm out of breath just listing those events.
Well on CBC Saskatchewan's The Morning Edition, Ms. Lafayette-Boyd told host Sheila Coles what it was like to break those records. Here's a part of that interview.

SOUNDCLIP

CAROL LAFAYETTE-BOYD: It's nice to have broken them because my name will go in the record books. But it was just more fun seeing other people excited about it, especially my coaches because they've worked so hard with me. Like I train with, you know the 13 to my age 75 year olds.

SHEILA COLES: 13 year olds.

CLB: Yes. You know 13 to 19 kids they're training with us. And they kind of expect us masters to kind of keep up with these kids. And of course the coaches, and Carla Nicholls is our head coach. And I don't think she is old enough to have heard the you know “You can't teach an old dog new tricks”. So she's been making you guys do these what she calls killer workouts. And they've really done well for me.

SC: So tell us about one of your killer workouts. What does it look like? What do you do?

CLB: Well they call them drills and they'll make you, you know, do push ups and then jump up and do standing on the, running on the spot for 30 seconds, you get a minute break, another 30 seconds, you get a minute break, another 30 seconds, you get a minute break , another 30 seconds, you get a minute break. I try to hide behind the taller kids and she does that. But some of them are really tough. But she does look at us and see you know when we’re, we look like maybe we're older and we should stop. You know instead of doing ten, you only have to do eight.

JD: That was Regina's Carol LaFayette-Boyd – a world-record-breaking track-and-field athlete at the age of 75, speaking with the CBC's Sheila Coles yesterday.

[Music]

Julius Caesar play

Guest: Samantha Rehr

JD: "Long live art imitating life imitating art imitating life."
That's what audience member Samantha Rehr said about Friday night's Shakespeare in the Park performance of Julius Caesar in New York City.
As we've told you on this program, the production has infuriated some corners of the so-called "alt-right" for its depiction of Caesar as a Donald Trump-like character. And when a protestor stormed the stage, the scene was stranger than fiction. We reached Samantha Rehr in New York City.

CO: Samantha, when you showed up at Shakespeare in the Park on Friday, did you sense that something about this performance was going to be a bit different?

SAMANTHA REHR: Well yeah, because it had been in the news just in the past couple of days. People were talking about the depiction of Julie Caesar as Donald Trump. So I knew people were emotional about it. I knew it was it was getting news coverage. And so when I arrived at the theater in the morning to pick up tickets, the line was massive. It was longer than any line for Shakespeare in the Park I had seen.

CO: When you got to see the Julius Caesar production, how is Cesar Trump like?

SR: So the stage first off is set up with like very American images as the backdrop of the stage. And then Caesar comes out and he's a modern day politician in a black suit with a long red tie. You know, Trump is sort of famous for that long red tie and with the blond hair, and his he has a gorgeous wife with a Slavic accent. And that's basically where the comparison stops.

CO: Can you describe the scene when the protesters showed up?

SR: Sure. So before the show started there was one protester outside with a sign. He was in a blocked off area and he had a sign that said “Boo the cast.” And it was that he was sort of just funny everyone was talking by and sort of laughing at this one protester.
But during the show, so we have about 30 minutes of lead up and then Caesar is assassinated. The conspirators in the Senate, one by one, stabbed him, and it's a very graphic image with a lot of blood. And it's actually quite hard to watch. And as soon as that was done there was suddenly this woman on the stage. She had come up from the audience and she was shouting about violence against conservatives, stop the violence against conservatives. What was funny was that in this production, the way this production is staged they have actors playing protestors. So at the beginning of the show, there was a woman who came out of the audience all dressed in black and she was protesting Caesar. And then 30 minutes later you have another woman come from the audience dressed all in black protesting the show. And for a moment the audience sort of didn't know what to believe, they didn't know whether she was an actor or whether she was a real protester. But then it sort of became obvious when the actors kind of stopped what they were doing and looked around like this wasn't supposed to be happening, and then and then the audience caught on it and began booing.
And then another man popped up in the audience and was calling everyone Nazis and saying you're all “You're all gerbils”. So these protesters were escorted out of the theater by security. The stage manager had come on the loudspeaker and paused the play. And then when the stage manager came on again, she said actors pick up from “Liberty, Freedom.” And that was that was the line that they have coincidentally been on, and the audience just went wild. Everyone stood up in their in their seats and applauded. And it was sort of this beautiful moment of freedom of speech, freedom of the arts, freedom of expression, winning over these protesters who would wanted to stop the play essentially.

CO: One of the woman that got up on stage is identified as Laura Loomer. She was arrested after that. But then she was released. And she is part of a media kind of group here in Canada called Rebel Media, and they claim that the play was politically altered to feature the assassination of U.S. President Donald Trump, that it was a snuff show glamorizing and normalizing violent terrorism in America. What would you say to these claims?

SR: Well I absolutely disagree that it glamorized the assassination of a politician. All you have to do is watch the play or read the play. The play essentially yet it takes that first act to lead up to the assassination. And you see the assassination and it's a very gruesome image. There's nothing likeable about it. And then the rest of the play discusses the fallout from that event. And each of these conspirators meets their demise. And the country falls into chaos and civil war and nothing good comes from the assassination of this politician. And what it essentially is saying is that no matter your political stance, no matter who is in power, violence is not the answer.

CO: Now did anything else happen? Did the play proceed to the end the tragic end of this of this production with no more incidents?

SR: Yes. The play completely went on, except what was amazing was that we experienced the sort of melding together of life and art because we had these we had these real protesters show up and then later on in the play, there were again actors planted in the audience and all of a sudden all around us there were protesters, when Brutus was giving his speech, protestors pop up from the audience and begin yelling at the stage. And people were so confused. They didn't know what to believe. And some of the same people who had yelled at the first protester began yelling at the new protesters not even realizing that they were actors. And there were police, real police with real bullet proof that that crossed in front of the stage at the end of the assassination scene because they had come from dealing with this woman outside of the theater and they came back into the theater in front of the stage. And the senators, who had you know fake blood on their hands, ran off the stage in their exit and ran through the audience around these real police while actors dressed as police entered the stage.
And so we had we had fake police and real police and fake protesters and real protesters. And the audience is just like baffled. You can just feel this energy in the room. It was thrilling to be there. And then we were able to see how it all panned out. And you know like I said, nobody has a happy ending in this story.

CO: Beware the Ides of March.

SR: Exactly.

CO: Samantha, thank you.

SR: Yeah you bet.

CO: Bye-bye.

SR: Bye.

JD: We reached Samantha Rehr in New York.

[Music]

Measure Everest

JD: When we were wee kids, our parents would mark our heights on a doorjamb with magic marker. That practice tended to stop sometime around adolescence, either because we sullenly refused to be measured anymore, or because you reached your full height. After which things tend not to fluctuate much.
The same is not true of mountains. If there were a doorjamb next to Mount Everest, it would be a mess of magic marker lines. An 1856 measurement concluded it was 8,840 metres tall. Then, in 1955, an Indian survey put its elevation at 8,848 metres. Then a controversial American survey in 1999 assessed the mountain at 8,850 metres. And then, most recently, in 2005, a months-long process by China's State Bureau of Surveying and Mapping, determined that Everest is definitely 8,844-point-43 metres tall.
So all pretty much in the same ballpark. But in 2015, of course, a 7-point-8 magnitude earthquake wreaked havoc in Nepal. Almost nine thousand people died, dozens of them as a result of an avalanche on Everest.
Now amid the rescue efforts, and subsequent rebuilding, re-measuring a mountain was clearly not a priority. But now though, two years later, amid disputes among scientists about the effects of the earthquake on the world's tallest peak, India and Nepal have both announced new surveys of Mount Everest. They want to figure out what climate change is doing to it, whether it has shifted, and whether the quake shrank it.
The work is expected to cost upwards of 1.5 million bucks, and should be done in two years, at which point there will be a new line on the virtual doorjamb. Quick prediction: it will confirm that Everest is very, very tall. Also: they'll need more than one tape measure.

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Part 3: Naval collision, math line

Flight attendant hero

JD: Mary Dohey had a way of making people feel at ease. She even had that effect on a hijacker intent on killing 200 passengers aboard an Air Canada flight out of Calgary in 1971.
Ms. Dohey was a flight attendant onboard that day. And she somehow managed to soothe the hijacker. She talked him out of his plans to blow up the plane.
She also refused to leave the plane until everyone had safely disembarked. And for her actions, she later became the first living person to be awarded Canada's Cross of Valour for her bravery.
Mary Dohey died last week in Toronto. She was 83 years old.
In 1977, Ms. Dohey appeared on the CBC to describe what happened that day.

SOUNDCLIP

MARY DOHEY: I stepped out of the galley. I was all ready to start the first class service and I heard sit down. I turned my head and there was a man standing with a black mask over his head a long coat and gloves and a double barrel shotgun in his hand. I just froze. The person had a piece of paper in his hand and I heard this man say, the man with the gun, “You take that note to the captain, you tell him to follow the instructions to a T.” And he said “You have so many minutes, two or three minutes. Or she's dead.” Meaning me. And then he yelled again at me. He said “Sit down.” He said you “You put your back to the window, you staring straight ahead, you move your head and I'll blow it off.” So I'm sitting there. He has the gun aimed at it. But I also heard paper rattling out of the corner of my eye. I looked over without moving my head of course. And I saw two wires come out of this package and I thought oh my god he has a bomb.

HOST: Was this prior to take off?

MD: We were in the air. Then I hear “Come over here.” So I said “Do you want me to get up and go over there and sit beside you?” and he said “Yes.” So I went over and he handed me these two wires and he said “Lady, you know what's in that?” He said “That's a 60 stick dynamite bomb.” He said “If you want to die now, you can. If you don't, keep those words apart.” He said “But it doesn't matter what you do, you're going to die tonight.” So I put one word in here and one in here because I knew they had to be kept as far apart as possible. In the meantime, he still has his shotgun. So then I said “Is this where you want me to sit?” Indicating the seat beside him and he said “Yes.” And he said “You know, lady I don't want to frighten you. I don't want you to see the sight of blood.” And I said “Oh my name is Mary. Please call me Mary.” And I said “What is your name now dear?” And he said “Dennis”. I said, “Oh, may I call you Dennis?” So we both sat down.

HOST: What did you do?

MD: Well, at any rate, we established a rapport. When I said “My name is Mary” and we sat down. So the shot was fired. And I said “Oh dear, you didn't mean to do that, did you?” Because his hands started to shake and I thought oh dear. The other one's going to go pretty soon. And he said “No I didn't.” And I said “Would you like me to hold your hand? I wanted to study it, you know, just in case”. Anyway, he was quite pleased with this. And from there, we talked.”

JD: Former flight attendant Mary Dohey describing part of how she managed to convince a hijacker on an Air Canada flight released 200 passengers in 1971. For her bravery, she later became the first living person to be awarded the Canadian Cross of Valour. Mary Dohey died last week. She was 83 years old.

[Music]

Naval collision

Guest: Sean Tortora

JD: It will likely be months before we know how the USS Fitzgerald came to collide with the Korean cargo ship the ACX Crystal off the coast of Japan. But what we do know is that seven U.S. sailors are dead. Their captain sustained injuries so severe that he had to be airlifted to shore. And one of the United States Navy's hi-tech destroyers had to be towed back to port.
And Sean Tortora says all that should have been possible to avoid.
Captain Tortora is a veteran merchant marine captain with years of experience in the busy shipping lanes south of Tokyo. We reached Captain Tortora in East Islip, New York.

CAROL OFF: Captain Tortora, obviously there is a lot we simply don’t know yet. But from what you’ve seen, how would you describe the collision between the USS Fitzgerald than the Crystal.

SEAN TORTORA: Well as you said, it's I can only go with what I've seen and it's very limited. But it appears to be a classic crossing situation where two vessels, one vessel was crossing the other vessel and the vessel which has the other vessel on starboard side is what we call the give way vessel or the one that has to falter its course and stay out of the way. In this case being that the damage to the Fitzgerald is on the starboard mid-ship, it appears that that was the give way vessel, the Fitzgerald. And something must have happened where it didn't alter its course to starboard. Again this is by what the limited information I have.

CO: And this is all happening at night in the early hours of the morning actually, about some time between midnight and two, I guess. It's not determined yet. So what are I mean would they… certainly they would be able to see this large ship coming, whoever was on deck, even if you have other instruments. This ship, The Crystal had a lot of lights on it I'm sure.

ST: Well actually first you have your surface radar that both ships have, and of course the Navy destroyer has a very advanced radar systems which would track these vessels in the case of the Navy ship hundreds of miles before they're even interact. But in the case of a commercial ship, about 24 miles distance they will be tracked on their radar. So each one would be on the other's radar. Then we have had the lights. The ships have lights according to the international rules of navigation, ships have to have certain lights, running lights on the port side is a red light. So if you're steaming on your ship and you see a red light, you know that you're the ship that has to get out of its way essentially.
So it’s basic and those lights can be seen for a minimum of three miles.

CO: So and they were both, both these ships were going in the same direction. So I mean is it possible that the Fitz-Gerald was trying to get out of the way. And if it was T-boned, they crossed over the front of the bow of the crystal. I mean, what would be the reasons for doing that?

ST: Well it appears that the crystal was on a westerly course when the collision hit and the [unintelligible] was on a north, northwesterly course. Well why would the vessel cross the head? Why would the Fitzgerald course ahead of the Crystal? That that is a question. Yes.
Many times it's a situational awareness or a judgment issue, where the officer on the watch feels “I can make it, I can make it ahead of them” and doesn't quite. But we have methods to determine if you are indeed going to have a collision. We call it risk a collision assessment. And part of that is the basic constant bearing decreasing range. If I have a ship and I'm looking at it, I'm on my ship and I look at another ship and I just see it and it doesn't move. It's bearing, it stays in the same spot but it's getting closer and closer and closer every minute, that's a collision course.

CO: So that's also a mystery, isn’t it? I mean there’s fears that the Captain Commander was in his quarters when this happened. You’d think that he would been notified that a ship was that close, that there were going to have to be some decisions or maneuvers possibly made. And all of this indicates that the people, these sailors who died were asleep and their bunks. So why do you think that there wasn't… what's the possible reasons why there were not some warnings that such a close proximity was with another ship was about to happen?

ST: Well it’s interesting, you're correct. The captain of the Fitzgerald was asleep and which is normal and he or she is in command of any ship, the merchant ship, leave what's called night orders, and specific orders of when to call them. And one of them is usually when we have a vessel with a closest point of approach. For instance, my night orders always said, if you're going to have a vessel within two miles, you call me. So this was clearly in that timeframe. I don't know that captain’s necessary night orders were, but I'm sure it was something to the effect of two miles or one mile or even the Navy, sometimes it's five miles, if you have a ship five miles. I don't know what was going on the bridge. They had about eight to 10 people up there on the Navy ship that they didn't make the call to the captain. Obviously they didn't make the call, because he would not have been in his bed. So something was going on there. It certainly looks like a lot of situational awareness and they just lost track of their positioning and respect to the other ship, and before they knew it was too late.

CO: Can you, from your own experience, give us any sense of what it must have been like onboard those vessels especially the Fitz-Gerald, that the point of collision. And just how big are these vessels and what would that have been like for everyone onboard?

ST: Well the Crystal is 30,000 tons, 730 feet long. It's a massive vessel. The navy ship is a little more than 8000 gross tons. About 450, 460 feet in length. The bow of the Crystal, the bow of any ship is its strongest part of the ship. And that bow went into the weakest point of a ship which is the beam on a Navy ship so with a knife edge. So you can imagine it just sliced through it. Now that the I can't imagine the the force because you have a ship doing 15 knots 30,000 tons hitting another ship. Devastating. I can't I can only imagine.
And I'd say the crew was outstanding in that they saved the ship from sinking. Normally a ship would have sunk. If another ship T-boned a ship like that midship, it would have lost its watertight integrity. But these sailors fought back and they kept their ship afloat and that's credit to their training.

CO: Captain Tortora, thank you for speaking with us.

ST: OK thank you. Take care.

JD: Sean Tortora is a veteran merchant marine captain. We reached him in East Islip, New York.

[Music]

Flushing sounds

JD: So at turns out that, As It Happens doesn't just cover bathroom sounds in a journalistic sense.
A week ago, you’ll remember, I hope you’ll remember, we told you about Cecilia Cato, a councillor in Tingsryd, Sweden. Ms. Cato wants music to be played in school bathrooms, for the sake of self-conscious students, to conceal any of the perfectly natural sounds they may find embarrassing.
Well the next night, we read an email from Allan Murphy in Tokyo. The subject line was "toilet sounds". And in his missive, Mr. Murphy described the high-tech Japanese toilets that put Canadian washrooms to shame.
Now one listener from Minneapolis has a very As It Happens way of bringing peace to porcelain. Here's a call we received on our Talkback line.

SOUNDCLIP

Hey As It Happens, my name is Michael Reinhardt from Minneapolis, Minnesota. I love the story that you guys had yesterday about the Swedish councillor that that wants to have music playing in bathrooms so that students can go to the bathroom and not feel weird about their poop noises.
I just think that that’s so astute. I just finished up my first year at college and always do the exact same thing. Except instead of playing music, I’ve known people responded better to playing the As It Happens podcast in the bathroom. So they can go and be in the know. Anyways, thanks so much guys. Take care.

JD: Go and be in the know. Well thank you Michael Reinhardt for always listening to this program. To comment on anything you hear on the show you can find us on Twitter and Facebook. Both of those accounts, CBCAsItHappens. You can e-mail us, aih@cbc.ca, or call us 416 205 5687.

[Music]

Math line

Guest: Anna Haensch

JD: A sign at the Connecticut deli clearly caught the eye of one Ms. Anna Haensch.
It read "Please refrain from discussing mathematics while waiting in line." If that seems strange to you, imagine being Professor Haensch. She's a Professor of Mathematics at Pittsburgh's Duquesne University. So she tweeted out a photo asking why they would put up such a thing.
We reached Professor Haensch in Middletown, Connecticut.

CO: Professor Haensch, what went through your mind when you saw a sign in this deli that said “Please refrain from discussing mathematics while waiting in line.”

ANNA HAENSCH: Well first I thought “What on earth could have happened here to require the making of a sign to prohibit people from talking about mathematics?” Right immediately you can imagine there must have been some kind of a brawl over Fibonacci numbers or calculus or something.

CO: And you're a man you're a mathematician so this would set a separate alarms than than it might for other people.

AH: Oh yeah for sure, for sure. And I'm actually, the deli is in Middletown, Connecticut and I'm here on a research visit right now. And I was actually just taking a break from working with a collaborator here and I walked down to the deli to get a sandwich so I was thinking about math when I saw the sign. Luckily I didn't speak it out loud though.

CO: And did you ask anyone at the deli why the sign was there?

AH: I did yes. So actually, the deli is just down the road from the math department here at Wesleyan. It's called the Neon Deli and it's kind of a popular spot for the students and faculty here. So I knew that a lot of the math faculty went there for lunch. And in fact there were several sandwiches at the deli named after math faculty. So I kind of assumed that maybe they had something to do with it. And indeed that was the case.

CO: What are some of the sandwich names?

AH: Oh they’re just named after Dave's Tasty Turkey. It's just a sandwich named after Dave Pollack who is a professor here. And it's just a turkey sandwich with roasted peppers, just like a non-mathematician would eat.

CO: So there's nothing, nothing particularly mathematical about these sandwiches.

AH: No, no. Only in so much as mathematicians like to eat them.

CO: So and mathematicians line up to buy them I presume.

AH: Certainly they do. And often it's the case that people are walking down from the math department on their lunch break. And typically you're kind of engrossed in whatever you've been working on and you kind of don't want to stop. So we will often be down there having talks about mathematics. And I think what I know actually that that sign was inspired by Dave of the Dave’s Tasty Turkey sandwich and my own Ph.D. adviser. And they were down there talking about math one afternoon and the owner of the deli was trying to take the order from one of them and he was a little bit too preoccupied with mathematics to fully engage in the sandwich ordering process.

CO: So Dave was talking mathematics in line and–

AH: Correct.

CO: They couldn't get his order.

AH: Right. And they said then “Please refrain from discussing mathematics while waiting in line” just because they, it was kind of a joke. They wanted to just speed up the ordering process. But Cynthia, who is the owner who was there that day taking sandwich orders, she's a good friend of the mathematics department. And it was kind of a joke.

CO: Did you find all this afterwards because you tweeted about the sign right?

AH: Yeah I saw the sign and I didn't even ask, actually. I just took a picture of the sign and then I honestly I didn't think anyone would be very interested in it. I thought it was a little bit funny and I thought maybe five other people would find it funny. and then I went to sleep that night and woke up the next morning and had been re-tweeted 30,000 times I thought oh my gosh, what on earth? What about this is just, it's just kind of touched a nerve with people and it continued to I mean it's been I think liked maybe 90,000 times at this point. So at that point I went into my adviser and I asked me if what he knew about it and he told me the story.

CO: So after you had 90,000 people re-tweeting your sign, and your questions said what possibly could have brought this on, that's when you found out it was Dave standing in line, talking math while not ordering his sandwich.

AH: Correct. What I've noticed is that everybody seems to be blaming each other. This is I think it's the humor in it. That everyone is sending pictures of the sign to each other saying like hey so and so, have you been hanging out of this deli? This sounds like something you would do. Or, you know I've had a lot of people call me and say “Oh boy Anna. What did you do?” So I think it's a lot of non-mathematicians poking fun at mathematicians.

CO: Well it probably also comes as a surprise to many people that mathematicians have a sense of humor.

AH: Well I know, I think it does. It shouldn't, but it does.

CO: Are there other math jokes? I mean are mathematicians secretly very very funny people?

AH: Yes they are. They're very very funny. There are actually a lot of math jokes. Don't ask me to tell and right now I don't think I could perform very well on the spot. But there are, there's actually this thread there's a website called Math Overflow where people ask math questions. It's a lot of like faculty and grad students and about kind of high research level math problems. And there is an entire thread that's just hundreds and hundreds of replies long that's all math jokes. And I think I lost a day of my life to reading these math jokes. Now, I think that they wouldn't be funny to a non-mathematician probably.

CO: That was my question. Are these jokes that anybody would find funny, or were these just inside jokes for math nerds.

AH: No, I can give you one example of a mathematical joke. People think the following joke is really funny. That someone is giving a lecture on group theory and they stand up at the board and say Let L be a group. You see how funny?

CO: [Laughs] And that… if you told that with a bunch of mathematicians, they will be on the floor.

AH: Yeah they would they would be laughing because they'd say “No one let's L be a group. Groups or G.” Right. Because we have certain conventions for how we do magical things.

CO: That’s really really funny.

AH: It's not funny at all.

CO: No it’s not. It isn’t.

AH: But some form of that joke has been told to me dozens of times and it makes me laugh.

CO: Well here's the here's one I'll leave you with this one that I've just been sent. Why do they never serve beer at a math party.

AH: Oh because you shouldn't drink and derive.

CO: Got it.

AH: I know that one.

CO: Professor Haensch, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

AH: My pleasure. Thanks so much.

CO: You are really a very funny mathematician.

AH: Oh you're too kind. Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

AH: Bye.

JD: Ann Haensch is a very funny math professor at Duquesne University. We reached her in Middletown, Connecticut.

[Music]

Airport frogs

JD: There is a long long long list of things that can delay a flight. Unaccompanied luggage, a rowdy passenger, some stupid problem a stupid airline should have fixed before putting you on the stupid plane. But as infuriating as all these things are, they're pretty run of the mill. They're pretty standard whereas the problems that are forcing pilots in St John’s to rejig their plans, they're decidedly more unusual.
Now the problems are a big deal but they're also small. They're so small that they can weigh about the same as a couple of bags of airplane pretzels. Here's Phil O'Connell from St. John's airport speaking with CBC's Martin Jones.

SOUNDCLIP

PHIL O’CONNELL: Once or twice a year we get a report of toads crossing our runways from pilots. It seems to be a very fleeting instance and we respond and then they're gone.

MARTIN JONES: What kind of hazard could a toad really have on an aircraft that size?

PO: Well it's very minimal we believe. However, with any object on our runways, it's our responsibility as the airport authority to ensure its removed. And any kind of foreign object debris. we make sure that it is gone and we take care as soon as possible. With that said, a toad crossing, they're very small animals, they’re very light animals. They’re about two to four inches in size and they're on the pavement. So given that, they should pose minimal risk to an aircraft engine.

MJ: Could they ever stop an aircraft in the sense of it taking off or landing?

PO: It depends on the stage of flight. Once an aircraft is landing and then it's landing and it has to come to a complete stop. If a pilot notices something on the runway when he is getting ready to depart, then yeah, he might stop and request the airport authorities come out and inspect to see what it is and remove it.

MJ: So you're saying that if it toad is on the runway during a landing, it's probably not going to be toad much longer.

PO: That's a high possibility, yeah that that that it might be dispersed of.

JD: Phil O'Connell from the St. John's airport speaking with CBC's Martin Jones about the sudden appearance of toads on the runway.

[Music]

Rosalie Sorrels

JD: The American folk singer Rosalie Sorrels never got rich making music. But she did enrich the genre, and inspire other musicians, with her songs of struggle and heartache.
Ms. Sorrels died on Sunday in Reno, Nevada. She was 83 years old.
Despite performing at renowned festivals including Newport and Woodstock in the 1960s, she spent most of her career in small venues. She often played for free, in support of social causes. She was originally from Idaho, Ms. Sorrels also became known for being a travelling troubadour, almost always on the road, even while bringing up five kids on her own.

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June 19, 2017 episode transcript

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