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The AIH Transcript for May 1, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: He was going. And now he's gone. When a party in a Dallas suburb got out of hand, 15-year-old Jordan Edwards tried to leave. But he was killed when a police officer shot into his moving car.

JD: Things he is finally at liberty to say. Kashif Ali spent seven years in prison awaiting deportation. But on Friday, an Ontario Superior Court finally ordered the release of Canada's longest-serving immigration detainee.

CO: Plan B: apologize for saying you wrote plan A. Embattled Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan faces attacks in the House of Commons for falsely claiming he was the architect of a major operation in Afghanistan.

JD: Video on demand. Carol speaks with the filmmaker behind a documentary called “Recruiting for Jihad”, which got so close to an ISIS recruiter Norwegian authorities confiscated the footage.

CO: Flipping as the bergs. North Atlantic shipping lanes become an obstacle course, as hundreds of icebergs forced boats to detour hundreds of kilometers off course. Experts are keeping a close eye on our close ice

JD: And... birds’ eye view. The Canadian Senate issues a brochure for children which presents the members of the red chamber as “The Wise Owls. So I guess if they doze off or miss sessions altogether, it's because they're nocturnal. As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that hopes you like the story because it was owl-expenses paid.

[Music: Theme]

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Part 1: Dallas boy shot, posthumous award, Oilers anthem

Dallas boy shot

Guest: Lee Merrit

JD: 15-year-old Jordan Edwards and four of his friends were in the car in a Dallas suburb on Friday night, ready to leave a party. And then the police shot Jordan in the head with a rifle. He was sitting in the passenger seat. He died in hospital. Neighbors had called the police to complain about the party. According to a lawyer representing the Edwards family, Jordan was unarmed. That lawyers name is Lee Merrit. We reached Mr. Merrit in Dallas.

CO: Mr. Marrit, as far as you know, what happened at this party on Saturday night after the police arrived?

LEE MARRIT: OK, so it was reported to me that there were roughly four or five dozen students attending a house party and that a noise disturbance was reported. When the children who were present in the party learned that the police were arriving, they began to disperse. And so my client was accompanied by four other young men: a set of twins from a football team, another friend from his football team and his older brother. And so they were going back to their car as police were arriving to the house party. And as they got closer to the car, they began they began to hear gunshots in the area. And so they quickly got into their car. And as they backed up, they heard someone who was standing to the front right of the car holding a flashlight who appeared to be a police officer shouting profanities at them. Before they could react to the profanities while the car was not moving, that person began to shoot into the car from the front right of the car from the passenger side of the vehicle.

CO: The report is that the shots came from a rifle. What's the significance of that?

LM: Well the rifle is specifically designed to penetrate through a car. So an officer using that riffle on a motor vehicle would know that those bullets would be strong enough to actually penetrate the vehicle. It is almost with the intent of deadly force or with a reckless disregard for the five teenage children within the car. Moreover, the policy as stated was in their manual is if there is a vehicle moving toward you in aggressive manner, which has been the claim although it's not backed up by the testimony of the young men in the car. If that had been the claim, they had a responsibility to move out of the way according to their procedures and not to fire into a moving vehicle.

CO: And that's what the police have said. They said they arrived at the party. They heard gunshots and then this car was backing up aggressively towards them. That's how they've characterized as being aggressively moving. What how does that compare with what you heard from the boys?

LM: Well, two things, first the boys have said that when they were backing up, there was a car in front of them and no one behind them. And the fact that the shots came from the side of the vehicle and entered the side of the vehicle means whatever officer was shooting was neither behind them nor in front of them.

CO: Can you tell us about Jordan Edwards, the boy who died?

LM: Jordan Edwards was well loved by his community. He was a straight-A student. He was a standout athlete who was in love with football. That was one of the many sports that he played. Very, very well-liked throughout the athletic community through the coaching staff, who have turned up in great numbers to offer their condolences to the family as well of him. Popular throughout the school and it's just a kid in love with life. He wanted to be a Texas Longhorn and to play football there. He’d just learned the defensive end position of playing football and was looking forward to exploring that today, when his team was supposed to be issued pads for the first time.

CO: Did the call that brought the police was it pertaining in any way to Jordan Edwards or any of the boys who were in the car?

LM: The call was not related to them at all. The call was a general complaint about children in the vicinity. I think it's important that the call was specifically about juveniles. So the officer should have been on notice that deadly force without more would be a bit of overkill at best.

CO: So the police did know that they were going to a party where it was mostly teenagers?

LM: That's correct.

CO: And so by sort of code of policing that they should have handled the situation with an awareness that they were going to place were there were teenagers?

LM: That's correct. There's circumstantial awareness, so obviously you enter a robbery a little differently than you enter a school. So a school fight for example. So the situation was one that they were well aware that there were teenagers present and this was a nuisance complaint not any criminal activity. There were no complaints of a robbery or armed suspects or anything like that. So they should have gone with that awareness when they arrived at this community.

CO: Do you know what the gunshots were from?

LM: Yes, there had been obviously that had not been any complaint of guns prior to the police arriving. The only information that we have received is that gunshots began after police arrived. And the only persons that we know to have fired shots are law enforcement.

CO: Jordan was black. Do you believe that race had any to do with his death?

LM: I think that there is a trend in the country, specifically in Balch Springs Police Department, where white officers shoot and kill unarmed black people be it black boys or black girls. I think we see it more often statistically than in other races. I think we see deadly force and excessive force cases involving African-Americans more than any other race. And I think this falls into that narrative. I can't say that the officer had racial motives. I have no earthly idea what he was thinking when he shot it with a car full of five teenage boys. But it is consistent with a trend throughout the country of using excessive force against African American males who are unarmed.

CO: Was the officer white?

LM: The officer was white according to our witness descriptions although, the officer has not been officially identified.

CO: Mr. Merrit, thank you for speaking with us.

LM: Thank you.

JD: Lee Merrit is a civil rights attorney representing the family of Jordan Edwards. The 15-year-old boy was shot and killed by police as he was leaving a party in a suburb of Dallas. Jordan was unarmed. We did request a comment from the Balch Springs Police Department. We didn't hear back. But at a press conference on Sunday, Balch Springs Police Chief Jonathan Haber said that the officer responsible had been placed on administrative leave, and that the Dallas County Sheriff's Department would be investigating the shooting. We have more on the story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Harjit Sajjan

JD: Well one thing Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan truly is the architect of is his own misfortune. As you have been hearing on the news, while traveling in India earlier this month. The minister falsely claimed that he had been the architect of Operation Medusa, which was a major assault on the Taliban in Afghanistan in 2006. Mr. Sajjan made those remarks during a planned speech and it was later revealed that that wasn't the first time that he had made that claim. Well today in the House of Commons, opposition members called for Mr. sojourns resignation. Here's one example, from opposition House leader Candice Bergen.

SOUNDCLIP

CANDICE BERGEN: Mr. Speaker, so the defence minister’s defence of this is that it was a mistake. Except that doesn't hold water. And the reason why it doesn't hold water is because he repeated it more than once. That is not a mistake Mr. Speaker that is a fabrication. So Mr. Speaker, how can Canadians, how can the military, how can this prime minister trust this defence minister if he's going to mislead on something this important? What else is he going to be misleading about?

HARJIT SAJJAN: Mr. Speaker, as I stated I made a mistake in describing my role. I wish to retract that. I had in no way intended to diminish the great work of the Canadian Armed Forces during Operation Medusa or any other operations. I’m owning that mistake and learning from it so that I can continue to serve. Thank you Mr. Speaker

GEOFF REGAN: The honorable opposition house leader.

CB: Mr. Speaker, our men and women in uniform deserve a leader who does not waver from telling the truth. They deserve a leader who can be trusted every time always. Mr. Speaker. And this minister has failed. So I ask this minister does he really believe that our men and women in uniform deserve a defence minister who is willing to fabricate the truth in order to bolster his own record?

GR: The Minister of National Defence.

HS: Mr. Speaker, I’ve apologised for my mistake. I’ll be learning from this and owning the mistakes. Not making any excuses for it either. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

JD: From today in the House of Commons, that was Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan responding to Conservative MP and Conservative House leader Candice Bergen. Now in response to calls for Mr. Sajjan’s resignation, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said that he was satisfied with Mr. Sajjan’s apology and that the minister has his full confidence.

[Music: Ambient]

Posthumous award

Guest: Sarah Fulford

JD: A When the Canadian magazine awards handed out their first-ever prizes, the author of Best Story of the Year wasn't there to accept his honor. And that is because the story John Hofsess wrote was not published until after he died, which was exactly how he wanted it. The piece is called “By the Time you Read This, I'll Be Dead.” In it, Mr. Hofsess describes how, as a right-to-die activist, he helped eight terminally ill people to end their lives, including the Canadian poet Al Purdy. The story was published in the magazine Toronto Life only after Mr. Hofsess had ended his own life, at an assisted dying clinic in Switzerland. In a moment, we're going to speak with the editor of Toronto Life magazine about the winning piece. But first, from our archives, here is part of our interview with a friend of Mr. Hofsess, Michael Irwin, who was with him when he died.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL IRWIN: John was completely relaxed in fact, when all his form filling in had been completed. He said to a doctor well that's very good, am I approved for a loan now? As if he was in the bank asking for some money. And then went over and lay down on the bed. And then and intravenous infusion is set up, John wanted to have music staying in the background. His choice was “Ol’ Man River” with Paul Robeson singing. And his last request in a sense was to have some ice cream. He is a passionate ice cream enthusiast and I share that with him. After about five minutes of his music, he activated by moving the lever which is attached to an intravenous drip and the sodium pentobarbital quickly flowed into his vein. He was unconscious in a matter of 20 or 30 seconds, and he was dead maybe about three or four minutes. It was a very peaceful, very dignified situation which is what he'd been longing for some time because of his various medical problems.

CO: In the article that he wrote for Toronto Life magazine that he arranged to have published as soon as he was dead. This article is a confession in many respects. He puts in the first paragraphs, “Let's not mince words. I killed people who wanted to die.” Why do you think that John Hofsess wanted people to know all of this?

MI: I would feel that he wanted to bring things of course out into the open. And in that way, I was very proud of what he was doing.

JD: from our archives, that was part of Carol's conversation with Michael Irwin. That's from last March. Michael Irwin was a friend of the right-of-die activist John Hofsess, who was with Mr. Hofsess when he died. John Hofsess’s piece “By the Time You Read This, I'll be Dead.” Has just been named the Best Story of the Year at the Canadian Magazine Awards. Sarah Fulford is the editor of the magazine that printed that story: Toronto Life. We reached Ms. Fulford in Toronto.

CO: Sarah, in a way congratulations are in order. But I'm I presume you have some mixed feelings about this success?

SARAH FULFORD: Absolutely. It's really unfortunate that John Hofsess, the author of the story that won the award, is no longer with us and can't enjoy the attention his piece has earned him.

CO: How did you come to publish this story titled “By the Time You Read This, I'll Be Dead”?

SF: Well, over a year ago, we were approached by an editor and sometimes colleague of mine Gary Ross. And he had worked with John Hofsess on his memoir. Hofsess was writing a big book about his life and about his work in the right-to-die movement and his journey from being an advocate for assisted suicide to being a practitioner really. And the article had been shopped around to various publications and hadn’t really found the right home and Gary thought that I might be interested and I most certainly was.

CO: Did you have reluctance?

SF: I knew what a big deal the story was. We've certainly never published anything in the magazine where the writer confesses to what is essentially murder, or in this case eight murders. I also knew that Hoffsess was interested in ending his own life and was hoping to have the piece published after he died. So these were two totally uncharted situations for us. And I was certainly cautious, but deeply curious. And of course, I was fascinated by the story and I assumed our readers would be too.

CO: John Hofsess confesses in this article he says to having secretly assisted the deaths of eight people and one of them was the poet Al Purdy. He goes into detail describing how it was done: the bag over his head that inflated like a chef's hat. The wine that was unfortunately corked when they opened it and put the poison in. When you read this how did you react?

SF: I found it incredibly powerful. And of course, it came to us right around the time that the Supreme Court was making assisted suicide legal and we were about to see a government bill that was going to change the landscape in Canada. So this was all deeply on my mind and on the minds of Canadians.

The story itself was agonizing to read and so powerful because it was so vivid and detailed.

CO: You had this article in hand before he died and we had this article in hand before he died, you passed it to us the day of under the conditions that we didn't do no interviews or put nothing on the air until John Hofsess this is dead. And then you pushed send, you publish the story when you got the news. How did you feel at that moment when you were told that he was dead?

SF: Well, I think everyone at the office and I certainly didn't do this alone. I worked with some great colleagues who edited this piece felt two pretty profound things. Like terrible sadness for him because we had got to know John over the course of editing the piece and I think he died very unhappy. He was alone in his life and he had terrible, terrible health problems and had run out of money. You know he writes in his book also about not having wanted to be a burden on the Canadian health care system in his sickness. So he was in a very sad place. And so we felt sad for him. It was sad that his voice was silenced. And we also, I think, I certainly felt also felt a little bit of joy and relief for him because he was suffering so terribly and he had agency in his death. He had chosen to die in Switzerland and he had designed his own death.

CO: We spoke with Michael Irwin on that day when he was with him. This is a friend and fellow right-to-die advocate. They were together in Switzerland telling us that he had played “Ol’ Man River” as his request of music and had some ice cream and things of that nature. And before he died that was what Michael Irwin told us. But we also interviewed Susan Musgrave, who was a friend of Al Purdy’s and she was so deeply disturbed by the article. She had no idea that he had he had arranged his own death. Do you understand why some people were quite upset about the article?

SF: I certainly do. I mean I've been in situations where I had discovered after the fact that very close friends of mine hadn’t revealed something personal to me and I can imagine feeling sort of shut out of that or alienated. And I do think that the graphic nature of the way Hofsess depicted Al Purdy’s death and the death of some of the other people he facilitated was jarring and some people may have thought it was an invasion of privacy. On the other hand, I believe that Purdy told Hofsess before he died that when the time was right it was Hofsess's choice to tell the story. And of course, now in Canada, in the last year, I think it's over a thousand Canadians have taken advantage of medically-assisted dying and many of them are having living wakes now where people gather around them before they die and the fact that they are ending their own lives is public for them. And it's becoming more of a commonly accepted practice in our society.

CO: Sarah, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SF: Thanks for your interest

CO: Bye bye.

JD: Sarah Fulford is the editor of the magazine Toronto Life. We reached her in Toronto.

[Music: Ambient]

Oilers anthem

Guest Brett Kissel

SOUNDCLIP

BRETT KISSEL: Oh… Oh… Hey is this working? Let’s sing it together!

[Sound: A packed stadium audience sings the American anthem]

JD: That is a bit of what it sounded like a Rogers Place in Edmonton last night, just before the Oilers took on the Anaheim Ducks in game three of the Western Conference semifinal. Canadian country singer Brett Kissel was supposed to sing the U.S. National Anthem as you heard that, he got off to a rocky start. Luckily he was singing in front of a home crowd. And so it didn't take much to convince them to finish the song with them. We reached Brett Kissel in Edmonton.

CO: Brett, what happened to your mic last night?

BK: You know what, I'm not sure if we'll ever find out? It's an amazing thing with a technological glitch like that. You know I went out to the mic and just wanted to start singing, but it wasn't working for me.

CO: And you were wearing your Oilers Jersey, you had your guitar, you’re all ready to sing the Star-Spangled Banner and you couldn't get sound.

BK: No, and that's the thing I think people watching on TV you know could hear the television feed that was going you know obviously through the network. But in the arena at Roger's Place, you just couldn't hear anything. So I tried and I tried again and I tried again and again and panic set in for me and I didn't know really what to do. But I’m very happy that the fans in Edmonton and in oil country bailed me out. It was amazing.

Well you didn't look panicked. It seemed that you had some pretty quick thinking and got your plan B up. Tell us what happened? Tell us what you did and what the reaction was?

BK: Well, I got to give again credit to the fans there because I just kind of started shouting out the very first lyrics to The Star-Spangled Banner. I reached out my hands like a conductor and tried to conduct 19,000 people to sing in time. And it turned out to be something that could have been an epic anthem disaster being a magical moment.

CO: Were you surprised that so many people in the arena actually knew the lyrics — the words?

BK: Yes. You know standing at center ice and looking out through the crowd thinking yeah, I don't know how this was going to go? Does everybody know the words? Of course I'm freaking out. But looking back on it now and watching the tape, you know I think to myself well of course we knew it! You know we're Canadians, we've heard the Star-Spangled Banner a million times. It was easy for us to I think to bail me out. And I think as fans to sing that song.

CO: The U.S. media is reporting on this around the world, but talking about the nice Oilers fans and the nice Canadians who would actually do this. Why do you think that in the United States is such a big deal?

BK: I think because you know Americans are a very proud and patriotic group of people. They know what's going on in their country, but what happens outside their borders, I think they'd be the first to say that they are not maybe as well educated on the little things. I guess you know like the anthems. When it comes to that as Canadians, I think we're such an international and a multicultural country that it was nothing for us to just hike up our socks, do a few vocal warm ups and belt out the American anthem. I think that's a very special kudos to us Canadians for being able to do that.

CO: What did it sound like in the arena when you did that? Because you held the microphone up to amplify the sound a bit but what did it sound like for you?

BK: It was remarkable. It was a moment I'll never forget because hearing so many people belt it out and nobody's necessarily singing it in tune that didn't matter. But belting it out the best that they could and as loud as they could and me standing at center ice conducting the whole thing, it was a moment I'll never forget.

CO: You said you mentioned the tape and it's not much of it of the crowd scenes. But it seems that when the cameras did sort of pan over the fans you could see that a large number that people were wearing Oilers jerseys they were Edmontonians or Canadians who are singing it.

BK: When you have a team like the Anaheim Ducks, the San Jose Sharks, any team that comes to Edmonton, you know that you are in enemy territory. But once the puck is dropped, all bets are off. Prior to that, it is the tradition of the anthem and the starting lineup. That tradition is so special that when you go through a fail like we had in a technical glitch you know what I'm just so proud of the Canadian fans and the Edmonton Oilers fans for saying don't worry Brett, we got this.

CO: But when was the last time that the Oilers were successful in hockey? In the Stanley Cup?

BK: I'll tell you. It was the day I was born: May 1990. So it's been 26 years since we've won the Stanley Cup. And they're saying that I might be the curse. So I'm hoping that I can turn this around.

CO: You say they are saying, in particular your brother says you're the curse, right?

BK: Exactly. My big brother and my family think that the day I was born is when the Oilers started to lose. So I'll tell you what, my wife and I are about to have a little baby maybe this little one can reverse it.

CO: I understand this baby is overdue. Were you expecting to get news while you're out there on center ice?

BK: You know what, my phone is still in my pocket. I told my wife, Cecilia, I said if you need to call me you call me and I'll be there. Interestingly enough, my brother and his wife had a baby during round one of the Oilers playoffs and my brother asked for permission to go to the game instead of go to the hospital and my sister-in-law said no problem. So my brother went to the game. Then he went to the hospital.

CO: Will you get another chance to sing an anthem at the game?

BK: Yeah, it looks like I'll be playing for game four. The situation is though we're going to have a little bit of a longer sound check and rehearsal I guess will say.

CO: Brett, we'll be watching. Thank you.

BK: And thank you for your time.

JD: That was Canadian country music singer Brett Kissel. We reached him in Edmonton.

Back To Top »

Part 2: Immigration detainee, Newfoundland icebergs

Immigration detainee

Guest: Kashif Ali

JD: For the past seven years, 51-year-old Kashif Ali, a West African immigrant, has been kept in a maximum security prison. He was never criminally charged but he was kept there as an immigration detainee. In fact, Mr. Ali was Canada’s longest-serving immigration detainee. The Canadian government wanted to deport him. But Ghana, his birthplace, would not take him. Well, on Friday, an Ontario Superior Court judge ruled Mr. Ali’s ongoing detention violated his charter rights and ordered him released. We reached Kashif Ali in Newmarket, just outside Toronto.

CO: Mr. Ali, how did you celebrate your first weekend out of prison?

KASHIF ALI: Wow! It hasn’t sunk in yet. I calling it the room, I'm calling it the cell. People I’m surrounded with are telling me I'm institutionalized. So it hasn’t sunk in yet you know. So far, I’m adjusting bit by bit.

CO: You spent seven years in a maximum security prison and you've said in your statements in the court that you were mistreated. Can you tell us what happened to you in prison?

KA: It's a prison and so it’s not everything that could be revealed. But I went through a very tough time over the past seven years between my fellow inmates and between the jail guards.

CO: You were beaten?

KA: You win some; you lose some because sometimes when I'm fighting I'm fighting with three or four different people at the same time you know? You live among very different people. You live among gang members. You live among armed robbers. You live among people that there were serious cases. So you become more aggressive like them too.

CO: You testified that you were beaten by guards and sometimes by your fellow inmates, is that right?

KA: It did happen. At one point, I remember when I was kept in segregation for almost six months. I started throwing feces at the guards. I started playing with feces and rubbing my body with the feces. All that is very effective in your mind to be locked up in segregation for that long.

CO: Why were you in segregation for 100 days?

KA: I was locked in segregation because I was refusing to be routine searched over and over and I refused and all that. I didn't feel right, so I refused and that's like refusing a direct order when you are in jail.

CO: We should point out that you were not serving time. You were not sentenced to prison.

KA: But they don’t care. The jail guard, when it comes to that situation, they don't care who they are dealing with. They just go by their rules.

CO: But you were not there because of being convicted of any crime.

KA: I was just there on immigration but the immigration enforcement were saying they don't have a place that people like lme to be kept. So I keep arguing why would you keep somebody in a provincial jail that you don't give them no training at all? No schooling. If the person has and addiction problem there's no rehabilitation in the jail that you could go to for help. That's like torturing and killing a person slowly.

CO: But you also weren't serving a sentence. You had no idea when you were there how long you would be there.

KA: I don't know how long I'm going to be there because I wasn't serving a criminal sentence. It was immigration and I kept wondering how long is it going to be?

CO: They locked you up because they say you were illegally in the country. So why did they not deport you?

KA: Why they didn’t send me to Ghana?

CO: Why didn't they deport you to Ghana?

KA: I had already been to Ghana already. They deported me back in ‘96 what a fraudulent document that I provided for them. They used that and I went to Ghana and the Ghanaian people put me into jail over there. And then the Canadian authorities came and took me out of jail and bring me back to Canada.

CO: Is there any place else that you could go and live? Any other country you could go and legally live in?

KA: I don't know? I would like to go anywhere if that country was willing to take me I would go. And I would get over all of this. I don't have to be to living trapped in Canada all the time like this. This has been going on about over 20 years.

CO: The Canadian government was deporting you because you have a criminal record. And you served time for all of your offenses?

KA: I served time for all of that criminal record. If you look at it most of them is drug related charges. I keep telling them my addiction problem and I need help for my addiction so I can stay out of the jail. And be able to work in the country like every Canadian citizen. They keep refusing me the help and look at my record. It is all drug related charges. I don't think that the system should be about punishment keeping somebody in detention centre over seven years without a criminal charge. To me, that is like torture.

CO: The government says you are a danger to the public. Is it likely they will try and lock you up again?

KA: That's my concern now what danger I am in? If any danger here I am a danger to myself. I was the one that was doing the drugs myself. I wasn't punching people and stabbing people in the neck. I was the one doing the drugs, so I’m the one that has a problem. I am a danger myself. Canadian people look at my drug convictions and then all of a sudden, somebody says he's a danger to the public. And even then I did not fight that. I just want to go. They asked him to do parole and I said I don't want to do parole. I just want to go and get out of the country so I can start another life somewhere. But they still kept me in jail for all this time.

CO: Your daughter, Sakina, was in the court on Friday and she was very happy to see you get out. She's Canadian. She's in her 20s. Is she going to help you get some help while we're out of prison now?

KA: I live with her, so the whole family is doing the best you know making me try to not make the same mistakes again that I've been doing in the past. And trying to get a work permit and health coverage so I can help myself and support myself.

CO: And you had you have no health coverage, you had it in prison. Now, outside you will not have it and you have some health problems, is that right?

KA: Yeah, all these health problems accumulated well I was in jail.

CO: So what are you going to do now?

KA: I have an appointment with my lawyer. Maybe if he could try and apply me for a work permit and health coverage. And if I have to go to a rehab or mental treatment I would do that. At this stage of my life I want to do things different this time when I'm out here.

CO: All right. I wish you best with that Mr. Ali. I appreciate speaking with you.

KA: Thank you too Miss. You have a good evening.

CO: Bye bye.

JD: Kashif Ali was held as an immigration detainee for seven years at a maximum security facility in Ontario. On Friday, a judge ordered his release. We reached Mr. Ali in Newmarket, Ontario.

[Music: Ambient]

The Wise Owls

JD: oh my friends there are so many books one could write about our Canadian Senate. You could certainly fill a few hundred pages with the story of the expenses scandal, right? Maybe there'd be a chapter on the controversial statements regarding residential schools. Not to mention one senator's relationship with a 16-year-old-girl. Or you could write a book about owls. And that is the one the Senate itself went with because that is the one the Senate itself wrote: a 23-page kids book, which it calls a brochure, called “The Wise Owls”. The Senate's book, which was obtained by The National Post, casts Members of Parliament as bickering animals who cannot get much done. Not much done at all without the help of those wise owls. Which are of course, the senators themselves. So gather your kids around the radio. Here is Michael Enright, host of CBC Radio's “Sunday Edition” with an abridged reading of the instant children's classic “The Wise Owls”.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: The Wise Owls by the Senate of Canada. Everyone in the forest knew the owls were wise. They had been in the forest as long as anyone could remember. They had big eyes to see whatever was going on. The Council of Animals worked well, but it didn't take long to realize the animals sometimes thought only about what was good for their own kind. One week, a beaver came to the big den and asked to cut down 20 trees. The Council gave its permission. So the Beaver went to work, but he was so happy in his task that he didn't notice a squirrels nest in a tree he was chopping down. As the tree tumbled to the ground, the squirrel leapt to safety. “You've destroyed my home!” Squirrel said. “It is the will of the Council of Animals.” Beavers said. Just then, a wise owl a lid on a tree branch,” You have voted to put your fellow animals in charge.” The owl told them. “But they must represent you all.” A shaggy bear rose to her feet, “I would feel better if the owls kept an eye on the Council of Animals,” she said. The other animals agreed and asked if the owls would form a second council to make sure every decision would benefit every animal. They chose to call the new council the Senate of Owls. As the years passed, different animals came and went from the council, but the Senate of Owls remained to give the Council of Animals the benefit of its wisdom. And to make sure that the council truly acted for the good of every animal in the forest.

JD: The one and only Michael Enright reading an abridged version of “The Wise Owls”. The children's book that is being published by the Senate of Canada. If you'd like to hear Michael's reading of the unabridged story and see the illustrations go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Country]

Newfoundland icebergs

Guest: Gabrielle McGrath

JD: In the waters where the Titanic sank, the cry of “iceberg” can chill the most hearty sailor. And this year, those cries may be raised more often because hundreds of icebergs have drifted into North Atlantic shipping lanes. And so large ships are being forced to take serious detours, to avoid of course, the fate of that unsinkable ship. Gabrielle McGrath is the commander of the United States Coast Guard International Ice Patrol, which tracks a number of icebergs in those waters. We reached Ms. McGrath in New London, Connecticut.

CO: Commander McGrath, how many icebergs have you spotted in the North Atlantic shipping lanes so far this year?

GABRIELLE MCGRATH: So far this year, we have detected or have drifted south 678 icebergs into the Transatlantic shipping lanes as of today.

CO: And how does that compare?

GM: Well, all of last season we had 687.

CO: How has it affected shipping?

GM: Well, definitely when our iceberg limit is very far the south and east, the ships have to navigate around that limit to remain safe from the danger of iceberg collision. They typically will have to go you know 300-400 miles out of their way on a normal Transatlantic shipping routes to get around the area of iceberg danger.

CO: from the Coast Guard's point of view — the U.S. Coast Guard — what advice are you giving to those piloting ships?

GM: We recommend that they stay outside of our iceberg limit and basically stay outside to the east and to the south of that region. We are using our detection methods, using aircraft surveillance and satellites to put that line out there to warn them of the dangerous area. So they follow our iceberg warning products, they can stay safe from the danger of a collision.

CO: Have you given any unusual or any announcements or notices that you don't normally give at this time of year?

GM: Well, during that period of extreme increase we had detected six icebergs outside of our iceberg limit, which is a very dangerous scenario because we want vessels to hear our warnings. And then when we detect icebergs outside of them you know that's obviously a most dangerous situation. So when that happens we work with a Canadian Coast Guard Marine Communications and Traffic Service and they send out a broadcast notice to shipping to let the ships immediately know where that iceberg has been detected.

CO: Are so many icebergs just because of those winds and those currents? Or are there more icebergs?

GM: It's definitely hard to say. We see that the atmospheric conditions over the winter months from about December to early March really set up what type of a season we're going to have. So if you have onshore winds through the early winter months that will typically keep the sea ice close to shore and keep the iceberg close to shore as well. And when you have offshore winds it allows the sea ice to grow and protects the icebergs from titration. If they have that sea ice which is basically the surface of the ocean freezing that ice protects the ice berg itself from deterioration. This season has been a little bit interesting we've had a deep sea ice and you know along the coast of Newfoundland, there has been quite more sea ice close to shore than we've seen in some years. But those low pressure systems that have come through have really increased the winds and those things offshore as well.

CO: But those icebergs are calving off the Greenland ice sheet and the glaciers that is Greenland. So are there any studies to say that perhaps because of climate change there are more icebergs?

GM: Again that's something that we don't really see the correlation. We don't you know try to detect the correlation between the two because it takes the icebergs one to three years actually for when they calf from the glaciers to get into the shipping lanes. So from one year to the next you know depending on the atmosphere conditions and the changes over time over year to year it's hard to make that connection.

CO; It's not your business either, but I think tourists love to see these things don't they?

GM: They do. Definitely and I think the way the season has set up is the way that we had them come south and then we had some winds pushing them onshore. It’s set up for a very you know excellent iceberg season.

CO: Commander McGrath Thank you.

GM: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye bye.

JD: Commander Gabrielle McGrath, commander of the United States Coast Guard International Ice Patrol. We reached commander McGrath in New London, Connecticut

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Part 3: Feature interview: filmmaker Adel Khan Farooq on HotDocs documentary “Recruiting for Jihad

Yukon quake

JD: The show must go on, even if you've been badly shaken. You know that could have been the motto of Whitehorse, Yukon’s “A New Day” program this morning. Host SandI Coleman was doing her job. She was interviewing a seismologist about a strong earthquake that had rattled the territory earlier. And then another tremor hit.

SOUNDCLIP

GUEST: There's a lot of small ones…

SANDI COLEMAN: we're having one… we're having an aftershock right now.

GUEST: Oh my goodness. OK.

SC: OK it's over. At least it was, but everything was shaking in the studio again. And it still is. I got my I've got a guest in studio with me. All the lights are shaking and it's still going.

GUEST: You might want to get under your desk if it's still shaking.

SC: OK, do I take the microphone with me?

GUEST: Sure thing.

SC: I think it's all right. There you go. I'm bringing that microphone back up from under the desk. OK. So you're exactly right. We can expect some aftershocks.

JD: That was the sound of an earthquake hitting an aftershock I guess hitting as CBC Yukon's Sandi Coleman conducted an interview with a seismologist about an earthquake that it hit the territory hours before. Thankfully no one was hurt.

[Music: Ambient]

Recruiting for Jihad

Guest: Adel Khan Farooq

JD: Ubaydullah Hussain is now serving a nine year sentence in an Oslo prison for his work as an ISIS recruiter. But before he was locked up, he spent years allowing journalist and documentary filmmaker Adel Khan Farooq to follow him around with a camera. Mr. Farooq captured moments like this one when Mr. Hussain addressed a group of men in Copenhagen after an attack at a free speech event there

SOUNDCLIP

UBAYDULLAH HUSSAIN: in these days, we are witness to two types of war against Islam and Muslims. We have the physical war that is very clearly for everyone. The second war is the battle of hearts and minds. And this is the battle we are seeing in these countries when we are living in Denmark, Sweden Norway, U.K. etc. We have to defend Islam with life and death.

JD: That footage and more like it eventually became the documentary “Recruiting for Jihad”, which premiered this weekend at the Hot Docs Film Festival in Toronto, but not without a legal battle along the way. Before making it to the big screen, the footage was seized by Norwegian authorities as part of their investigation into Mr. Hussain and one of his recruits. Adel Khan Farooq joined us in studio to tell us about the film.

CO: Adel, welcome to the As It Happens studio.

ADEL KHAN FAROOQ: Thank you.

CO: We spend your documentary in the company pretty well one man: Ubaydullah Hussain. And it's quite a compelling character. What's he like?

AKF: Ubaydullah is a Norwegian, he's born in Norway and he appears from Pakistan and he's a fundamentalist but also a guy that I've been following for quite some time. I've been following him for three years — almost three years. This is a guy that you know we have a very similar background. Like we have both parents from Pakistan. We’re born in Norway. We love soccer. We love Mancherster United. And Ubaydullah is, when you first see him, you see the beard and you see the charming smile and you just see a man happens to love God. But then you get to know him and you see that he also stands for things you know we don't stand for.

CO: He's very charismatic.

AKF: Yeah, he's very charismatic. I think he's very good with his words. He talks to people like you know he's always known them even if there are people he hasn't seen before or met before and he somehow makes them feel comfortable when he talks to them. And I think he has a very charming smile that helps him a lot. You know when you I mean I've been with him a lot of times. You know without and with the camera. And there have been moments where you know he talks to me like I’ve been his friend or brother for so long. And I think there are a lot of people that actually sees him or have met him that feel the same way.

CO: He has one of those qualities that some people have which is that you feel you know him. You feel he's in your life somehow. He’s familiar and is especially effective when you meet children on the street. Just boys who come to talk to him and he charms them.

AKF: The thing with that is when you are filming kids usually show up because there's a camera there and that's normal. But with Ubaydullah, all of a sudden he becomes this Islamic scholar in many children's eyes that don't know anything about Islam. You know you just see this guy with a beard and his hat on his head. And then they automatically think that's a man of God. And I remember when I was young and I would do the same thing you know just you go to people in front of me you know if they passed me I was to say hey, As-salam Alaikum without knowing who they were because I thought you know those guys are probably you know righteous Muslims. Even though I didn't know who they were but I just saw their beard I thought you know that's how my mom wants me to be.

CO: What does Ubaydullah believe in?

AKF: Ubaydullah believes he has very strong interpretations of Islam. Like he wants to go back a thousand years and he wants to live under Sharia law. He acknowledges the so-called “Caliphate” — the Islamic State — in Syria and Iraq. And he believes that people can't live under manmade law. He believes that the only laws that we can live under is the laws of God and he believes that everybody is in war with Islam. And it's his duty to do jihad by either talking to people like he wants to do jihad with his words, but encourages people to do it with actions too.

CO: And how successful is he at being able to recruit people to go to fight for Islamic state?

AKF: He was just sentenced and nine years in prison. In that sentence it clearly says that he's a recruiter. He has a very you know, like you said he's a very charismatic figure and there are a lot of people that approaches him: vulnerable people, soul searching people, youngsters who you know try to find themselves. And there's one guy that we meet in this documentary Peter that also got sentenced to jail for two years and ten months. And the thing is that he has helped a lot of people either by you know sending money to people in Syria and Iraq. He's been helping people to buy train tickets to travel from not also maybe from Gothenburg in Sweden. So he's been helping a lot of people. But the nine years sentence, he got that because first in court papers it clearly says that he's a part of ISIS and that he also managed to recruit Peter and tried to send him to Syria.

CO: And when we meet Peter through your filming you have close to an out of body experience. I mean you are you're with Ubaydullah and you're going into a room where are you going to meet Peter. And you see yourself in a mirror in a moment and you and you just have this. What am I doing here? What I what am I involved with? How did I how did I get here? And it's an astonishing moment when you are aware yourself that you are doing something and you're in something quite bizarre. What was that moment like when you were with Peter?

AKF: To be honest, I don't think that I knew or even dreamt about the consequences of that moment. I'd been falling Ubaydullah for over one and a half years. You know we have 400 hours of tape and we just use one hour of it. At that moment I was just you know a week before he called me and he said I wanted to show up with a camera. There's something going down something is going to happen. I can tell you what, but you have to come. And I was like OK, I've already been you know filming. I've been to a lot of things crazy things. Maybe I probably you know I discussed it with my co-director Ulric about what could just be? You know we were fantasizing and maybe it would be a shooting practice or something you know. But it turns out that it was when I got there I came with an assistant and he sent my assistant home and when I got in the car he said there's a Norwegian boy that will try to travel to Syria today. And you know I was there with a camera in the car. I didn't know what to do? I didn't know what to say? And I was like OK, really? And it just happened all of a sudden. And I you know I just felt like I had to be part of this. I have to document who this Peter is and why he's traveling to Syria? And you know why is this ethnic Norwegian white kid why does he want to leave safe Norway like the best country in the world? You know we always are at the top of the you know living standards and you know this is the safest country in the world why leave Norway for Syria or Iraq? You know a place with a lot of war and killings going on. So I just felt like I had to be part of this trip and I had to document how and why?

CO: You go to the airport with them and he gets on a plane. You don't go into the airport with them and you make that decision that you just the camera can't go there. What happens to Peter?

AKF: Peter gets arrested. He was standing in line about to board the plane and all of a sudden he sees two security guys just looking at him you know he was reading you know very nervous and also paranoid. You know he felt like he was being watched and, before he boarded a plane, he went to get a sandwich and he got back and he was about to you know eat a sandwich and two guys show up out of the blue and just take him by his arms, put him down on the floor and just tell him to freeze. And we didn't know that at the moment. Ubaydullah tried contact him because on the phone trying to send him message but he didn't get any reaction and it was not until the following day that we understood Peter got stopped and he got arrested.

CO: Peter is not the only one you meet and we meet in this, but you had I'm sure moments when you're thinking not just about yourself but about that Peter: he has a mom and dad. He has a family. He has a life. He has all kinds of things. I mean do any of those people factor into the decision of a young man to leave people who are going to be hurt by this?

AKF: The thing is that you know you also meet Tom Alexander that dies in Syria. Both Tom Alexander and Peter lost their dads. And during a very young age I think Tom's dad died in jail while Peter's dad was actually part of the Norwegian military. And you know you still miss that father figure you know? The real feeling of a father I think it means a lot when a child grows up. And their mothers have you know tried really hard to intervene in many ways. But you know there comes to a limit when you know her parents can't do anything and then it's up to society to you know just tackle this and handle the situation.

CO: But lots of people lose their dads. Lots of people go through this and they don't go off to Syria to fight with ISIS and behead people.

AKF: I know. But the thing is that you know I feel like we don't have solution or we haven't found out really why people get recruited to these kind of organizations? But the thing is that what we have found out is that they have received more warmth in their new group than they have in society. They get this feeling of being something to finally get this feeling of people that cherish them for who they are and not for who the people want them to be. And you know whatever you've done in the past doesn't mean anything. You get a new group of friends and those friends suddenly mean everything to you. And you know when nobody says that you're beautiful. When nobody helps you when you're down and then comes a guy that you know tells you that hey, what's up? Are you fine? You want some help. You certainly just get respect for him you know.

CO: Ubaydullah?

AKF: Yeah.

CO: But does he actually. Is there a payoff for that? Do they actually by being recruited by Ubaydullah and becoming involved. Do they actually have the satisfaction of belonging?

AKF: Of course, I do believe that when you come into a new group that you do feel important all of a sudden you know? Like Tom Alexander, he here he you know had some problems with drugs and stuff and you know trying to get rid of that. He'd been to jail came out, needed a purpose in life and found it in you know Islam. And then after that, found it in Ubaydullah.

CO: We're speaking with Adel Khan Farooq about his extraordinary film “Recruiting for Jihad”. And it's interesting that you become part of this story — you and your and your co-director — because the film actually gets seized. Can you tell us what legal trouble you ran into?

AKF: The thing is that you know the police had been monitoring these guys for quite some time. They knew what was going down. And they knew that Peter was going to travel to Syria and they knew Ubaydullah was somehow helping him on the path. And the next day we found out he was arrested and some hours later, police show up at my co-director door and just said hey, we need everything that you film during that trip.

CO: All your film? All your tape?

AKF: All the saves from that trip. And that was like I think it was four or five hours of it and we were like shocked.

CO: This would be the story of Peter basically?

AKF: Yeah, basically of Peter and a trip from you know when to start packing. And Ubaydullah helps him you know pack and stuff like that. And you know all the way to Gothenburg. And the police shows up and say we need everything that we have a court and you can't do anything about that. And we were shocked. I think we didn't know how big it was. And that's what I said in the beginning. I didn't know about the consequences when I started filming. I didn't know that this is going to go down. It became huge, huge news in Norway. And it never happened before that the police had gone into a journalist and seized their unpublished material. It hasn't happened in Norway before.

CO: And it was an extraordinary court scene and the conclusion of the judge. Describe how the judge finally ruled in your favor?

AKF: The thing is that we lost the case in two lower courts and we sued the police because we felt like they can’t do that you know. Because if you know if you had gone along with it you just said take our clips. No source would ever talk to us. Not only us, but other journalists as well because they would have been afraid of what they say can be used against them in maybe a case you know. And in the Supreme Court I think we shed some tears because it was a very great moment for journalism and for democracy and freedom of speech. And the judge said that this is an essential thing in an free democracy. Journalists rights to you know uncover things that the police can't.

CO What’s astonishing is that this is something obviously that Ubaydullah wants you to do. He wants this film he wants you to have free speech in order to tell the story. At the same time he celebrates the attack on Charlie Hebdo. He thinks that's great that they went in and killed journalists. He makes all kinds of attacks on the on free speech. At the same time as being thrilled that you have the Norwegian access to free speech that enables him to have a voice. What do you make of that?

AKF: You know people are very offended by that. You know they get provoked. How come this guy freedom of speech sudenly says that he doesn't have any freedom of speech? And you know praises those attacks on Charlie Hebdo. Praises the attackers of the Boston Marathon and you many other attacks and you know people are very provoked that he can go against the same values that he uses against society.

CO: And I'm I joined those people who are offended by it. It’s obvious that he's enabled by Norway's open society. He has rights. He has free assembly and free speech. All which would be denied in the Islamic state that he wants to create. So how do you how do you reconcile that?

AKF: I think that is also proof that in Norway, the welfare state is the best country in the world. I believe that and I think that you won't get the same freedom. You won't get the same liberty. You won't get the same healthcare or the educational system in the Islamic State. But he says it's a new Caliphate. We're still working on it. But you won't get the same thing. We won't get the liberty. Women's rights will be you know crushed…

CO: There won't be any dissenting opinions

AKF: No.

CO: So how does he reconcile that?

AKF: you know the thing that people ask after seeing the movie is like why doesn't he travel to Syria? and he says that he has a chronic disease that prevents him from traveling, but he can send people. And I don't know about how he reconciles with that? But I think that people are very, very, very offended that he uses the freedom that he won't get in Syria to you know send people back.

CO: Do you feel used?

AKF: By him? No, I don't feel used. But I think that you know he wanted to use us as a microphone to you know get out his propaganda and we haven't done that. So the reason why he wanted me to tag along because he said that the media was writing bad stuff about him and he wants to show people that he's actually a good guy. And in the beginning, you see him do humanitarian work and you know see him do things that you can somehow can you know feel attached to that you can you know you can recognize yourself. But all of a sudden he just snaps and you know started praising all these attacks. And that's what he wants. He wants to hate. He wants people to hate Muslims because he says that if people hate Muslims the Muslims will wake up. He wants people to hate Muslims because that will help him and help the cause of establishing a Caliphate war worldwide. And I think that he is very manipulative and he didn't use me but I think that he wanted to use me and I feel like he didn’t manage to do it.

CO: No he didn't. I agree with you. And yet he set all the conditions for filming. He told you could only film what he wanted you to film when he wanted you to film. At the same time, the end result is that this is a man who is very troubled and very complex and very contradictory. And so you did achieve that goal I think of showing him warts and all.

AKF: And the thing is that you know he you know another thing about that is that he really wanted to be part of this documentary because it was you know I have a word I don't know if you have it in English but we say PR horny. Like he's very horny for PR.

CO: And that is in English.

AKF: OK. I wasn't sure about that. You know he wanted to be seen. He loves the camera so much that it is ridiculous. On the verge of ridiculous. Like in a scene in a movie he asked his lawyer there's no journalists here. Where are the journalists? And he says oh, they’re not coming to this case. I thought you know they’ve gotten tired of me. So he's very in love with the camera and the attention that he gets. But we have given him the attention but not the attention that maybe he wanted I think.

CO: There is an astonishing interview you do with him on the street at the end. I mean you've been with him for years at this point. But you ask him are you at least sometimes in doubt of Islamic state? Do you ever regard them as bandits who are perhaps just in it for themselves? And you can see in his face the camera doesn't lie. You know it captures this. He doesn't know how to answer you? How honest do you think he answered your question?

AKF: I think that moment tells more than words can describe. You know the silence when we ask him Do you ever feel like you've been tricked by ISIS or IS? like is it really Islam? There is a moment there you can just hear the wind and birds. And he says that there are still moments when he's not sure what Caliphate is doing is right, but he still believes in ideology. But I still believe that that moment says in many ways the things that he cannot say.

CO: Because he looks as though he understands for the first time that maybe he's being used.

AKF: Yeah, because that's what we wanted to find out. Maybe they want to use you know God loving people like him in order to you know just get more attention.

CO: And recruits.

AKF: And recruits. I haven't seen him for over a year now and I haven't attended his case either. But what has come out from the case is like in court he just said that to get attention. He just said everything and he didn't mean that. And his beard was gone — he had shaved his beard — and he said that I really didn't mean that. I just wanted to get attention and I just wanted to provoke the Norwegian people. So I don't know if that's true or not, but that's at least what he says now.

CO: Has Ubaydullah seen your documentary?

AKF: Yes.

CO: What did he think?

AKF: I don't know if that's the documentary I wanted us to make.

CO: How did you leave him? How was your relationship at the end?

AKF: I think that you know our last scene is after the attacks in Paris 130 people died and over 300 got injured.

It's in 2015.

AKF: 2015, And you see that he is also very he's very sad in the moment. He says in the clip he doesn't want war. He wants peace in the world. I don't what kind of peace. But he said he wants peace and he is very vulnerable at that moment. At the last scene because there is an investigation going on for him recruiting people and then this terrorist attack occurs. There's a lot of things going on. So I feel like during the last scene he was probably quite vulnerable.

CO: You left me not knowing how to think or feel. We try to be a tolerant, open-minded society and understand why people were doing things? Why they are motivated? But I was disturbed and shaken by your documentary. What do you want people to take away from it?

AKF: Exactly what you felt. I think we have made a movie about a guy trying to find out why he became the way he was. We have made a movie that shows how one individual can recruit people. And you know we always talk about radical Islamic terrorists or the far right extremists. There are also you know radicalized and you know you find the same thing there you know you find the same you know people that are searching for a purpose in life. They're searching for a higher meaning in life. And I want people to feel shocked. I want people to feel like there is a job in the world that has to be done because the world is so polarized now and you know it's divided between us and them. There is no we anymore. And I feel like in this political climate you know we have to take care of people you know? We have to take care of our kids and these are our kids. Because there's an Ubaydullah in every city. You can find Ubaydullah everywhere. He can be a radical Islamist or he can be a hooligan or he can be a right wing extremist. But we have to stop it. Stop these individuals from going there if they're vulnerable. We have to you know take them back. And how do we do that? We don't have a solution for it, but we have to open up a window into this society and shown how they talk, how they speak and the love they have for each other is somehow stronger and greater than the love that they have felt in their life before.

CO; Adel Kahn Farooq, it’s an extraordinary documentary. And I appreciate very much speaking with you. Thank you.

AKF: Thank you. Thank you for letting me be here.

JD: Adel Khan Farooq is one of the filmmakers behind the new documentary “Recruiting for Jihad”. The film premiered this weekend at the Hot Docs Film Festival in Toronto. It plays again at the TIFF Bell Lightbox in Toronto tomorrow and on Saturday May 6th.

[Music: Ambient]

Currents of Sable Island

JD: Currents of Sable Island just won the classical composition of the Year at the East Coast Music Awards held in St. John over the weekend the composer of that music is well-known in East Coast music guitarist Scott MacMillan from Nova Scotia. And Mr. MacMillan is not just known for classical pieces. He was nominated in two other categories: Jazz Recording of the Year for Scott ‘n The Rocks “Live at Stayner’s Wharf” and in the Traditional Instrumental Recording of the Year category with fiddler Colin Grant for their album “Good to Go”. That collaboration also proved a winner for Mr. MacMillan. But Mr. Mr. MacMillan says he tends to not view his music as inhabiting different genres. Here's how he explained his cross category win to Bill Roach, host of CBC Radio's “Weekend Mornings”.

SOUNDCLIP

SCOTT MACMILLAN: Yeah, I don't know who the hell I am?

BILL ROACH: Identity crisis. Well, you ruined my next question. Which one is the real Scott MacMillan? Is it playing with Colin on “Good to Go”.

SM: No, I left Scott back in Halifax.

BR: Is there a favorite?

SM: No. The most favorite one is the last one I did.

BR: Right.

SM: All the different styles of music, I’ve been asked that before and it all kind of feels the same to me in a way. Some of it is kind of hitty and I got to work alone and set it all up. But in the end it just comes down to having fun and having an audience there that might like it. Usually they do.

JD: There you go guitarist composer and all-around awesome musician Scott MacMillan, speaking with Bill Roach, host of CBC Halifax “Weekend Mornings”. Mr. MacMillan picked up two East Coast Music Awards over the weekend. One in the Classical Composition of the Year category and another for Traditional Instrumental Recording of the Year.

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May 1, 2017 episode transcript

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