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The AIH Transcript for April 3, 2017

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: Chaos in St. Petersburg. At least 10 people are killed; dozens more wounded after a bomb filled with shrapnel explodes on a subway train in Russia. Our guest’s train arrived at the station moments later.

JD: As he sees it, it's publish and perish. Journalists in Mexico are being murdered, and their murders are going unpunished. So the publisher of one Juarez newspaper decides it's safer for his staff if he stops the presses.

CO: Hitting you where you live. New Brunswick's provincial government tries to fast track a new property tax assessment system. And when it overcharges people, the government tries to cover the shortfall.

JD: Frozen in place. A full grown humpback whale gets trapped in pack ice in a Newfoundland Harbor. And there is nothing humans can do to help.

CO: It went against his butter judgment. And since he specifically asked for butter, but was given some kind of buffer substitute on his bagel. A Massachusetts man files a lawsuit in order to beat the spread.

JD: And… our melancholy babies. When it comes to crying infants, a new study shows there are different tears when it comes to tears. And that candidate's infants are screaming somewhere near the very top level internationally. As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that thinks this whole thing is a national crying shame.

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Part 1: Russia attack: eyewitness, New Brunswick property tax, Newfoundland whale

Russia attack

Guests: Denis Skovodnikov

JD: It happened just before evening rush hour, at one of St. Petersburg’s busiest metro stations. As the first few cars of a subway train pulled into technology Institute station, a bomb packed with shrapnel exploded. Ten people were killed, dozens were injured. Later, a second unexploded explosive device was found and defused at another metro station. Denis Skovodnikov was on a train that passed through Technology Institute station on an opposite track soon after the explosion. We reached him in St. Petersburg.

CO: Denis, what did you see when you passed through the station?

DENIS SKOVODNIKOV: I saw the empty platform of the subway station. And on the other side, of which was opposed to my train, I saw the empty, heavily-damaged train. And near it I saw several people in the uniform. They were taking away the victims of the attack. Some of them were wounded, some of them were burnt and I guess some of them were dead.

CO: Did your train stop in the station?

DS: No. When I went to the subway and when I entered the train, far away from that station. We got a notification from the train driver. He said that several subway stations are closed due to technological problems.

CO: So Denis, when you were passing, that's all you knew that there were some technical difficulties. Where are you when you entered the station, and saw that what effect did that have on you?

DS: It was confusing. I don't really understood — nobody understood — what we saw was just the heavily-damaged train. So everybody was shocked.

CO: People on your train were shocked?

DS: Right.

CO: As you would expect. And so you going through and you could see the kinds of injuries that people had. Can you can you tell us some of what you saw?

DS: Well, all of their clothes and even their skin was burned by fire. Many of them had open wounds. And I noticed that some people had broken arms and legs. I remember the details of their broken parts so strongly because it's was the most shocking part, I guess.

CO: What did you see of the train? Could you see how much damage had happened to the subway?

DS: Well, the train wasn't completely destroyed, so as far as I can guess the explosion was in one of its parts. The entrance to it was like a pile of garbage. Several pieces of steel and the inner part of it was covered by smoke.

CO: And pictures I've seen and videos that people have collected shows a lot of smoke. Was there smoke in the station when you were there?

DS: Well, first of all, it was a strong scent of smoke. And in the first seconds, when we came to the station and did not yet see the train, we felt the strong scent of smoke. And when we saw the train, and people in the old picture, we noticed that the train was covered by smoke.

CO: This happened at 2:30 p.m. in the afternoon. How crowded are trains to that station at that time of the day?

DS: It's a nice station and Technological Institute is among the most crowded stations in our subway. So, of course, it is a primary target for any attacks like that.

CO: Do people in St. Petersburg. Do you worry about these kinds of attacks? Have you seen more security on trains in recent times?

DS: I can’t say that in recent times, bust several years ago. Subway workers started to install metal detectors. They check if you have anything suspicious on you. We all knew that it could happen, but when it really happened everybody was shocked, surprised and confused.

CO: When you went through that station and you saw what you saw. How are you dealing with that now? Are you are you coping with what you what you witnessed?

DS: Well, I'm fine because I know that my parents are fine and they know that I'm fine. All my friends and people from my university are fine, so I have nothing to worry about.

CO: Denis, I'm glad you're OK and your family is all good. And I know you just got lots to process, so we'll let you go. And thank you for speaking with us.

DS: Thank you.

CO: Take care of yourself.

DS: Bye

JD: Denis Skovorodnikov is a student in St. Petersburg Russia. That's where we reached him.

[Music: Industrial]

New Brunswick property tax

Guest: Jill Jolineau

JD: Last month, some people in New Brunswick started to notice something odd about their property tax bills. In some cases they'd gone up — they’d gone way up. CBC New Brunswick journalists investigated and they found that apparently the provincial government had invented fictional renovations and then used them to justify increases in property taxes on more than two thousand homes. Jill Jolineau is one of the people who was surprised by a higher bill. We reached Ms. Jolineau in St. John.

CO: Jill, when did you first notice your property tax bill had gone up?

JILL JOLINEAU: I was out of the country until March 18^th, so when I returned I got my mail and I took a look at my tax assessment.

CO: How much had it increased?

JJ: 51 per cent.

CO: And so this was a new assessment. Is that what you were told?

JJ: Yes, this is the 2017 assessment that we receive annually in March. I pay my taxes in a monthly plan, and when I looked at my bank account, the payment for March had increased.

CO: What did you think when you saw that you were being charged this much more for your taxes?

JJ: Well, that surprised me because I thought you had to give some notice before you withdrew money from someone’s account. More money than what they expected.

CO: And how much more a month were they withdrawing?

JJ: Almost $150.

CO: So you really saw that in your bank account then?

JJ: Well, it's noticeable, right? Also because I've been away, I only keep enough money in my checking account to cover my expenses that I knew were coming out of it. You know with everything the way it is I like to keep track of that and not leave too much money there.

CO: So were you overdrawn?

JJ: I was.

CO: So what did the government say to you about this property assessment?

JJ: Nothing. I had to give them their due. I have appealed it online as they requested either online or in the mail. And I've not heard a word back.

CO: Why did they why did increase your property assessment? What was the reason for that?

JJ: The reason given is that there was almost $80,000 worth of renovations done to my property. And so the assessment reflected that increase in property value.

CO: And had you done those renovations?

JJ: No.

CO: Well how did they decide that you had done $80,000 worth of renovations?

JJ: Well, this was the part that was perplexing because there was no indication. I certainly hadn't taken out a building permit or anything like that because I didn't do anything other than maintenance. So apparently, but I'm just going by what I've read and heard, there was assessments for renovations targeted to about twenty five hundred homes in the province. And somebody or some machine decided just to waive those through and let them go as renovation and leave the increases as they stood.

CO: How did you find out that this was the case? There was a CBC investigation. Is that how you learned that this was going on?

JJ: Yes, through Robert Jones and his investigative work with CBC.

CO: And what did you learn from that?

JJ: What I learned was that somebody had decided to just let the renovations go through. And so the mistake occurred somewhere.

CO: Well mistake or decision?

JJ: Well, I still don't know the exact cause because even today, when we heard more information, there was no real clear definition of what went wrong.

CO: Well, the report is at this point that they had decided they had tried to increase the value of the properties by measuring the size of the roof and they had come up with an amount and then they couldn't increase it by that much. Do you know about that?

JJ: Well, I heard about that. That there was some aerial surveillance done of the properties and that contributed to the projected renovation amount and the increases. I don't know if that's the exact way it happened, but that's the story.

CO: But then my understanding is that once they had made the assessment and they were looking at a larger revenue stream because of the reassessments. Then they found out that they couldn't do it that way and so the only way they could make those increases is to say that well it’s only if there's been a renovation to a house where you could actually increase it by the percentage they needed.

JJ: We have legislation that says the increase cannot exceed 10 per cent. So the only way you can go beyond that 10 per cent is if there have been renovations or if the property has been sold for a higher amount. And since neither of those apply to my situation, it should not have exceeded 10 per cent.

CO: Well CBC obtained an internal e-mail from a government e-mail that shows the invented renovations appeared to be intentional not a mistake based on the fact that they needed to increase the revenue stream.

JJ: Well if that is true that's a sad story. And if it's true, somebody should admit a mistake and present an immediate remedy.

CO: Well I guess your premier Brian Gallant has apologized. And he said that the provincial government will hand over tax assessments now to a third party organization. And there's going to be an independent review of what happened. What do you make of that?

JJ: Well it's not an immediate review for me is it? I could be paying additional taxes over the months until that comes to fruition.

CO: And have you been reimbursed for the money you've already paid for your $80,000 renovation?

JJ: No I have not. I have not received any word or any money.

CO: I’m Just trying to imagine the meeting where it was decided that this was a good idea.

JJ: Well, I guess I would say that I've been in leadership roles. I'm a retired teacher/principal. And when you make a mistake you own up to it, you apologize and you fix it. And then if there's an investigation or whatever that is follow up to it that can be done. But the immediate answer is to fix the problem for those who have been wronged.

CO: All right. We'll try and get you some answers. Jill thanks for speaking with us.

JJ: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye bye.

JJ: Bye bye.

JD: Jill Jolineau is one of 2,000 people in the Bronx in New Brunswick who had their property tax bills wrongly increased. We reach Ms. Jolineau in St. John.

[Music: Ambient]

Newfoundland whale

Guest: Wayne Ledwell

JD: It fought for its life for almost three days, but overnight it succumbed to its injuries. A humpback whale near Old Perlican, Newfoundland has died. It had been trapped in pack ice and stranded near the shore on Cook's Cove since Friday night. Wayne Ledwell is with the rescue group Whale Release and Strandings. He was in the area to check on the whale over the weekend. We reached Portugal Cove-St. Philip's.

CO: Mr. Ledwell, did this whale have any chance of surviving its ordeal?

WAYNE LEDWELL: During first day, I think that it could have had a chance when it wasn't too stressed out and beaten up by the pack ice that was in the cove. During the second day, it became sort of debatable that it could make it because of all the pressure where it was. And it was in a real shallow cove where there were large boulders and the whale had been pushed to where it wasn't afloat during high tide it was resting on. So it was in a hard situation. It was really between a rock and a hard place.

CO: Literally. And this is a full grown humpback whale, so a large animal.

WL: Yeah it was it was a full grown, probably around 13-14 meter whale. and probably around 30 tons.

CO: What condition was it in when you arrived in Old Perlican?

WL: It was just in a cove outside of Old Perlican. It hadn’t gone into Old Perlican. It may have done it because there was open water in there. But the whale kept being pushed along by the pack ice and just went into that cove. When we got there, it didn't look very good. The only hope that I held out for it was that the ice would clear out. But the forecast wasn't good. He couldn't move and was just caught in this one spot about 20 meters away from land.

CO: There was a fair bit of blood on the ice I guess at the very end?

WL: There were some the next day. There were some that probably would have been from when he was thrashing around with his tail and there was some blood on the ice. I mean the place was blocked with people for a couple of days. There was more smartphones than I've seen in life I think. And people going up taking pictures because you could just walk to the animal. And a lot of people were upset, they didn't understand what was going on with the animal, they didn’t understand why we couldn't get the animal out of it.

CO: Explain to us why nothing can be done to help the whale?

WL: Well, the cove was a shallow cove. And there were calls for an icebreaker. But an ice breaker could not even get in there and out of the cove. So you would be a mile away from where the whale was anyway because of the shallow water. And also what an icebreaker would probably do would be to push more big ice bands up onto it. The pack ice is an amazing thing really. People get really excited when they see the pack ice come down and we haven't seen it for many years now. And we haven't seen stuff this big like multi-year pack ice. And when it moves it's like this ocean of danger that they will kill anything in its path really — except for seals, which can get up on top of it. When you see the power of some of these chunks of ice or “growlers” as they call them that are 10 feet high and they're mixed up amongst it. And the ice when you see it on shore is three or four feet high. And you realize the power of it. And when you get to sea pushing in on top of whatever it is — in this particular case that humpback, there's so much pressure just impacting it. And there's no way you could get out to move the ice. And there's no way you could get out to the whale to try and do anything with the ice because it's just impossible to move. Those pans are thousands of pounds for the most part.

CO: There are warnings to people to leave the whale alone, to not touch it and not try to do anything. Why was that necessary?

WL: Well, when the tide fell, you could walk out to the whale. Right alongside of it and you could touch it if you wanted to. And I heard that some people were doing that. I didn't see anybody doing it but after I left that evening. But for some reason people want to touch the whale. So I put word to say please don't do that. Please respect the animal where it is. the Animal is suffering. Let it suffer as much as it can by itself in peace.

CO: How did people react when you told them there was nothing to be done but to allow the whale to die?

WL: Well, it's like anywhere in rural communities. The people that work on the ocean, the people that work on the land and the people that do things that have spent their life figuring things out. They understood immediately what was going on with this animal. They understood the chances were minimal just intuitively. But other people that don't do that that don't use the land or the ocean, they wouldn't except that we could not save this animal.

CO: People also asked why don't you euthanize the animal and at least allow it to die pain free. What do you say to that?

WL: That's pretty messy business. These animals are huge. And this animal was down in pack ice. If you wanted to for someone to get in to euthanize it, you would have to have large volumes of barbiturates to kill it. And the dosage to do that for large whales has never really been figured out and if you do that — and has been done in some places — you've got to deal with the after effects of it. The toxic cleanup and scavengers and others that scavenge on the whale. And you know it's so hard to take and it's part of nature. It's what happens here where we live. Some of the harshest climates in the world I suppose — seems like it this last month and a half or so anyway. And you know we get this down on top of an animal and that that's there and we don't really know because it happened so fast. If there are other ones out around there and we don't know the extent around the coast of how many more animals are being caught in this because it moved down real fast.

CO: Are you concerned you're going to see more animals caught like this whale?

WL: I would think so. I think that once this all clears away and when people get around again. Just a few weeks ago, we had a dead blue whale over in the Gulf. It was probably killed by ice from that the last big storm we had. Pack ice is considered natural mortality for whales that get caught in it. And most of the times are the dolphins and some of the resident whales, especially the humpbacks. There are some resident humpbacks that stay around all year. And so whether or not this is one, we don't know. But I mean the whales are starting to move back a bit now. Hopefully this ice doesn't stick around.

CO: Mr. Ledwell, it's a very tragic story. I appreciate you explaining to us all the possibilities and how frustrating it was. Thank you.

WL: Thank you Carol.

JD: That was Wayne Ledwell of Whale Release and Strandings. We reached in Portugal Cove-St. Phillips. Over the weekend, Mr. Ledwell was near Old Perlican to check on a humpback whale trapped in ice since Friday night. The whale died overnight Sunday.

[Music: Ambient]

Not Butter lawsuit

JD: I guess you could call him The Spread Eagle. And by that I mean the Jan Polinak is eagle-eyed when it comes to spreads. Now the fact that I have to explain it means that it wasn't really a successful pun. In fact, when it comes to puns, it was more of an unconvincing facsimile, which is exactly what Mr. Polinak so exercised. At some point in the past few years, he went to a Dunkin Donuts franchise in the Worcester, Massachusetts area. He ordered a bagel and he ordered butter on it — butter — specifically the dairy product. And yet he was given, in the words of a Dunkin brand spokesperson, a quote, “butter substitute vegetable product.” Faced with this blatant misrepresentation, Jan Polinak put down his butter knife and brought in the big guns, specifically lawyer Thomas Shapiro. Both men maintained a healthy perspective about the wrong they set out to write. Mr. Shapiro told The Boston Globe quote, “Candidly it seems like a really minor thing and we thought twice or three times about whether to bring a lawsuit or not.” Unquote. But in the end, they opted to file two lawsuits against 22 plus related Dunkin Donuts franchises in Massachusetts because, as Mr. Shapiro says, quote, “A lot of people prefer butter.” A settlement came quickly. We don't know exactly what it entailed, but we do know that 17 of the challenged franchises have made changes to their butter policy. We also know that Jan Polinak is satisfied with these butter policy changes. So we can assume that, from now on, Mr. Polinak will get exactly what he orders at his local Dunkin Donuts. So congrats to him and butter luck next time.

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Part 2: Mexico newspaper, crying babies

Mexico newspaper

Guest: Oscar Cantu

JD: For 27 years, the Mexican newspaper Norte has brought the news to the people of Ciudad Juarez. Today, the paper itself has news. It is shutting down. in a piece published on the front page yesterday, the publisher wrote that the risks to journalists were too high. He pointed to the recent death of his colleague Miroslava Breach, a journalist who died after being shot multiple times. We reached publisher Oscar Cantu in Ciudad Juarez.

CO: Mr. Cantu, how did you come to make this decision to stop publishing your newspaper?

OSCAR CANTUL: First of all, I've been dedicated to the journalism for 40 years. So I made an evaluation of everything that we have encountered and we have gone up against in the last 27 years since I founded the paper. And making an assessment of all the circumstances that we had against us in the past and the ones that we have against us in the present, I realized that the past was nothing compared to what we are encountering or the circumstances that we are going against the exercising of journalism, particularly as a counterweight or counterbalance and critical newspaper.

CO: You lost a dear colleague very recently, just a week ago, Miroslava Breach. What effect did that have on your decision?

OC: Well, tremendous effect because we have in the past very critical circumstances surrounding the exercise of our journalism. But never had we had anybody assassinated. And I am 67-years-old and I decided that it was time. And also my family was a big issue. My wife and my daughters spoke and said Listen father, we are afraid of what could happen to you and what would happen to us. And there also was a big factor.

CO: You're losing this colleague the first time you have lost a colleague in your newspaper. But just last month, three journalists killed in Mexico for doing their work and that's just three of dozens.

OC: Yes, that is correct. When I made this assessment this assessment the first thing that came to my mind were the journalists that have lost their lives and the impunity that we live here in the state of Chihuahua and Mexico in general. That factor was also very important because it's the attitude of our governments that really concern me in not bringing to justice the criminals who perpetrate those assassinations.

CO: Just to give a statistic to that. Mexico is ranked sixth on what they call “The Global Impunity Index”.

OC: That’s correct.

CO: Showing in which countries there are very high rates of people getting away with murder literally. So that's what you're up against?

OC: That is what I am up against and it's a way of protesting. And many journalists said don't you see that your silence will have the criminal organizations think that they won? It's possible. I don't know. I've tried for 40 years to do this in a different way of doing things. Nothing changed. I hope this gets the attention and the awareness of our community.

CO: Can you tell us how you or your colleague Miroslava Breach was killed?

OC: She was shot eight times next to her children. She had a 21-year-old daughter and 10-year-old son and they were next to her. They were they were getting inside the car. She was taking them to school. It was early in the morning around 7:00 o'clock. The viciousness that was taking on and the way that she works killed was really something that was horrifying.

CO: Mr. Cantu, I'm so sorry to hear this.

OC: I am also.

CO: The killers, did they say it was because of her journalism? Did they give any motive?

OC: Well, they left a cardboard message saying that. It was signed by supposedly the person that ordered the execution. Which I don't think he would be that stupid to sign something like that. I think it was a trickster.

CO: But did anybody take responsibility? Did anyone say that they were the ones who killed her for any reason?

OC: No. Nobody has claimed responsibility.

CO; What kind of what kind of journalism was she doing? What was she reporting on?

OC: Well, she did a lot of political corruption, criminal and a little bit of everything.

CO: And now you've lost her.

OC: Yes.

CO: You also mention in your editorial when you say that you have to shut the paper down because you can't risk anymore lives. You also say that there were financial concerns as well that led to this decision. Can you tell us about that?

OC: It is the attitude of our government if you provide a service and they don't recognize the debt from the former government governments. And this has happened to us throughout the 27 years. The case is now with the federal and state governments. How can we be obligated to pay our taxes and to give all the social security and all the benefits for our employees when our own government doesn't recognize their obligations?

CO: The government owed you money?

OC: Yes. President Pena Nieto owed us money that the Calderon administration had with us. They never recognized those debts. And the actual government right now is also is not recognizing what the former government had.

CO: You have been running this paper — Norte — for 27 years. How difficult was this decision to make today?

OC: You have no idea how difficult the decision was. This morning, I feel grief, a sense of loss and what can I say? It’s something that I’ve done for 40 years. So you can imagine that it is something I love to do.

CO: Mr. Cantu, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend and colleague. I appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

OC: Thank you very much.

JD Oscar Cantu is the publisher of the Mexican newspaper Norte. It printed its last edition on Sunday. Mr. Cantu has said that the paper's digital edition will be shutting down in the near future. We reached Mr. Cantu in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico. and if you would like to hear that interview again visit our website: www.cbc/aih.

[Music: Electronic]

Gilbert Baker obit

JD: Just months before Harvey Milk was assassinated in 1978, he asked a friend for a favor. He wanted someone to create a symbol that would represent the gay rights movement internationally. And Mr. Milk figured there was no better person for that job than Gilbert Baker. Mr. Baker was a talented flag maker and artist. And one day, he climbed in the attic of the Gay Community center in San Francisco with trash cans full of dye and strips of fabric and he got to work. And that is how the now iconic rainbow flag was born. Gilbert Baker died last week. He was 65-years-old. In 2013, CBC Montreal's “Homerun” interviewed Mr. Baker when he was Grand Marshal for Montreal's Pride Parade. Here is part of that conversation with host Sonali Karnick.

SOUNDCLIP

GILBERT BAKER: It's something I never really dreamed would happen when I made the first flag back in 1978. Now, it's become this incredible international symbol of our global tribe, if you will. And it expresses the hope and the liberation and the freedom that I always wanted it to. So it's a great success. For me personally, it's very fulfilling as an artist because I get so much love. People really cherish it and value it. And I work very hard on it, but I say a true flag is something you really can't design. It’s something that's torn from the soul of the people. Every person has their own idea about what that means to them and that's what gives it power.

SONALI KARNICK: What was your inspiration behind it?

GB: Well, truthfully, the inspiration was to have a flag. Flags are about proclaiming power and visibility. And in the late ‘70s, it was important. We were really becoming a movement in the true sense of a civil rights movement organizing. Up until that moment, the pink triangle had functioned as the symbol for gays. But that was put on us by the Nazis and by Hitler in the same way that they use the Star of David against Jews. So we needed something that came from us and the Rainbow really fit us.

SK: Did you expect the flag to have so much resonance and I guess so many people just being able to immediately recognize that?

GB: I didn't until it went up. The very first day, the very first moment, the first flag actually got up in the air I was really astonished by the way that people out in the plaza that morning just owned it immediately and it changed my life forever. So it was kind of like a bolt of lightning that you go oh my gosh, you know this is really important.

JD: That was Gilbert Baker, in conversation with CBC Montreal's Sonali Karnick, host of “Homerun” back in 2013. Mr. Baker, creator of the rainbow flag, died last week. He was 65-years-old.

[Music: Ambient]

Crying baby study

Guest: Dieter Wolke

JD: A researcher in the United Kingdom says Canadian children are crybabies.

[Sound: A crying baby]

JD: I know, I know, I know it's upsetting and, to be fair, most small children are crybabies. But a new study suggests that, at certain times of their lives, babies in Britain, Canada and Italy do cry more than most. Dieter Wolke is the author of the study. We reached him in Stratford-upon-Avon, England.

CO: Professor Wolke, why did you even want to find out which babies cried the most?

DIETER WOLKE: Well, we actually wanted to find out what is the normal development of crying and fussing behavior over the first three months? It's quite interesting. A lot of parents who clinically have come to us would say they never imagined how much a baby would cry. No one has told them about it. And for example, for weight or height, they have got charts and they can sort of control whether their baby is growing fine. But for crying and fussing nothing was there. And that's why we started to combine these studies around the world, which had reported on fussing and crying in scientific diaries every five minutes ticking whether there is fussing, crying, content sleeping or feeding behavior. And we had data for 8,700 babies.

CO: So then you decided you were going to see if there was any sort of geography to this?

DW: Well, we first wanted to plop down of how much do babies actually cry? But then we wanted to see what factors are related to it. Could it be that it's boys and girls? Could it be the country? Their social and genetic differences? and also feeding time?

CO: So how did you come to the conclusion that babies in Canada cry more than babies in Germany or Japan?

DW: Well, I think the most important thing is that in Canada, the babies are pretty average when they're fussing and crying at most times during the first three months. But they have got an earlier peak because normally crying peaks at about five to six weeks. So it goes up from two hours in the first four weeks to about two-hours-fifteen-minutes by that time. And then reduces to one-hour-ten-minutes. But Canadian babies have got the most crying at about three to four weeks. On average they cry about thirty minutes or fuss and cry thirty minutes more than the babies and the other countries. But by six weeks and by nine weeks and twelve weeks they're completely comparable to the other countries, so Canadian parents shouldn’t be concerned.

CO: You got a lot of Canadian mothers and fathers very worried right now. But what did you look at as the possible reasons why some babies would cry more than others.

DW: At different times, different countries had little had had more crying, which was significant. But really the most consistent finding at any time, during the first three months of life, Danish babies cry significantly less. And so people have started looking at it and they find that Danish parents seem to be relatively relaxed around crying. The first thing is that they're quite infant centers. They pick them up. They carry them around doing the choirs, but it is not completely that they do everything for their babies. They wait one to two minutes, for example, to see if the baby can self-soothe. And there may also be differences — social differences — which are related to maternity and paternity leave after birth. Because fathers can also take leave and they might have more social support. And another one, of course, is now speculation is whether there are general genetic differences that Scandinavian countries may be calmer in general. And if you remember the OECD report last year, of 156 countries found that Denmark comes top of the list in well-being. So they are feeling good about themselves. They are calm and it seems to be that they also transfer this to their babies and their parenting.

CO: How does it correlate though with what kind of feeding they receive? In some cultures there is more acceptance of breastfeeding while other countries cultures are saying bottle feeding is OK. Did you look at possible kinds of feeding as a contributing factor?

DW: Yeah, we did look at feeding. And, in fact, we found a small effect and the effect is not something which is Nestlé people want to hear. It's very clear that breast is best and you should breastfeed. But we did find a lot of parents, who have got babies who cry more, try to switch either from breast feeding to bottle feeding or between bottles and we found that bottle- fed babies did cry on average a slightly bit less. But the interesting thing is that this is presumably a placebo effect because people have done trials where they gave them, for example, a bottle feed of one type and then a hypo allergenic type and then another third type. It doesn't matter, for example, in bottles which bottle you use and what you switch between. It's just doing the switching seems to make parents calmer and to think that they have done something about it rather than it is actually that feeding.

CO: So a lot of it has to do with how relaxed the parents are?

DW: I think it has partly to do with it. And I often try to say to parents just think about when you're on the plane. When they say that actually the air pressure is dropping in the plane and mass will fall down. They tell you very clearly put your mask on first and then give it to your child because you're no help if you're unconscious yourself. And the same is true here. If you yourself are very restless and you get very worried or you get very angry about it, you can't help your baby. So it's very important in those situations also to put your baby down, get back that you can relax a bit or calm down and then deal with the baby again.

CO: A lot think about Professor Wolke. Thank you.

DW: Thank you very much.

JD: Dieter Wolke is a psychology professor at the University of Warwick in England. We reached him in Stratford-upon-Avon.

[Music: jazz]

Snack delay machine

[Sound: Jeff is eating something]

JD: Oh, my gosh… Pardon me… I'm sorry… I got hit by a munchy bug here and I just could not wait to tear into these Miss Vickie's that I stole from Michael Enright’s desk. There's a little note here, “Do not eat upon pain of death.” OK. Yes. Yeah, that requisite regret is setting in. A bit of bloating too and guilt and yes a little fear, Michael Enright is a large man. And frustration you know because what triggered my hankering in the first place was reading about this new vending machine called “DISC”, which stands for “Delays to Influence Snack Choice.” It was designed by Brad Appelhans. He's an associate professor of preventative medicine at Chicago's Rush University Medical Center. And he wanted to see whether attaching a time delay to unhealthy options in vending machines could encourage consumers to switch to a more nutritious choice? So he installed a platform in the machine to catch snacks from the upper rows. Those being the higher calorie, more sugary, fattier and more fun treats and the lower rows of the machine contain the healthier options. Which if selected goes straight through. So when someone chooses a snack in the upper rows it launches a 25 second count down on the machine's display screen. So the buyer must either make a healthier choice or wait nearly half a minute for their initial selection to drop into the bay. Mr. Appelhans installed various “DISC” machines around campus and observed the effect over several months. And what he saw was an increase in healthy snack selections of about five per cent. Perhaps unsurprisingly he saw an even greater effect after reducing the price of healthy snacks by 25 cents. So this proves that either there's something to be said for a sober second thought or perhaps that we're all just becoming more impatient and we may want to junk that old adage good things come to those who wait. Case in point, nothing good is going to come from me waiting around for Michael Enright to discover I've eaten his crisps.

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Part 3: Philippines impeachment, most normal town, From Our Archives: Yevgeny Yevtushenko

Philippines impeachment

Guest: Antonio Trillanes

JD: He has said some pretty offensive things. He has cursed Pope Francis and former US President Barack Obama's late mother. He has praised Hitler and he has repeatedly claimed that he personally killed suspected criminals when he was the mayor of Davao City. Regardless, however, of what he has said, it is what Rodrigo Duterte, the President of the Philippines, has done that is much more disturbing. Eight months ago, he launched a bloody war on drugs. And according to Human Rights Watch, vigilantes or police have killed thousands of Filipinos. All it appears while being egged on by the President and now some lawmakers want the President impeached. Senator Antonio Trillanes is one of them. We reached Senator Trillanes in Manila.

CO: Senator Trillanes, do you think you have enough support for your impeachment complaint against President Duterte?

ANTONIO TRILLANES: I believe right now I would be candid enough to admit that it's an uphill climb, but it's not impossible. If we're going to reclaim it from what happened during the 2000 impeachment of then President Estrada. So back then the circumstances are quite similar. Or, in fact, President Estrada was way more popular than President Duterte is right now when the impeachment case was filed against him.

CO: What are the grounds in your view for impeaching the President of the Philippines?

AT: So in the case of President Duterte, the charges against him are betrayal of public trust and culpable violation of the Constitution, bribery and theft and corruption, plunder and the other high crimes particularly multiple murder and crimes against humanity.

CO: Can you talk about the murder charges? This is something the numbers of human rights agencies are saying that President Duterte has gone way beyond the law in how he is dealing with the drug problem — the illegal drug problem — in your country. What are the cases in your mind the worst examples of what's been happening in that regard?

AT: The multiple murder allegations against him when he was the mayor of Davao City. Where there is this open and shut case about a radio broadcaster who was ordered killed by President Duterte. So he has a witness testimony detailing how the murder took place and how Duterte ordered and masterminded the killing.

CO: And as president what are the cases?

AT: as president the allegation is he committed crimes against humanity because of his policy of death in the so-called “war on drugs”, which right now has reached a death toll of 8,000 people killed.

CO: These are people killed by the police? Who killed them?

AT: Based on the data of the Philippine National Police, at least 2,600 people have been killed by police operations. And then another 5,500 have been killed arbitrarily in what they call “extrajudicial killings” or “summary executions” or of “vigilante killings”.

CO: And how can you tie it to President Duterte — the 8,000 deaths?

AT: Well, he has been publicly speaking about it. He openly admitted to this policy of killing suspected drug users and drug pushers. And that all the innocent people who have been killed in the process are just collateral damage.

CO: You have been a major critic of President Duterte before this, you led an attempted military coup in 2003. How can Filipinos be sure that this isn't just you trying to seek power? This isn’t another way to have a coup d'etat?

AT: Well, it's a battle of perception. People will always believe what they want to believe. But I've been pretty much consistent ever since I was released from prison after serving seven-and-half-years in detention. I've been constantly exposing the corrupt high public officials. And so far, this is the second president that I've been exposing.

CO: Last month, your colleague Senator De Lima was imprisoned for drug trafficking. And Human Rights Watch — that agency — has called that arrest politically motivated. Do you have any concerns that something like that might happen to you? That you might be arrested on some kind of charges?

AT: Well, I have already anticipated that and it's correct that the charges against Senator De Lima are politically motivated. The fabricated evidence, they perjured witnesses and coerced witness into coming up with statements against Senator De Lima just to put her away. In my case, I've gotten information from several sources that Duterte actually ordered a hit on me. But so far, I’m still around.

CO: Ordered a hit as in he sent someone to kill you?

AT: Yes. Well, I've been taking some security measures also. It's there. The order is out. But I'm hoping that God would have other plans.

CO: You're pursuing then this attempted impeachment with the president in Congress. It looks like, as you said yourself, it's to be honest you said that it's going to be very difficult. Why is there so much support in Congress for President Duterte?

AT: That's how we play historically the bulk of the great majority of the members there are allied with the incumbent President. But things can suddenly change. so we can never tell.

CO: We will be watching and following this story Senator Trillanes. And thank you for speaking with us tonight.

AT: Thank you very much.

JD: we reached Philippine senator Antonio Trillanes in Manila.

[Music: Ambient]

Most normal town

Guest: Steve Connel

JD: If you go to England as a tourist, you do all the tourist stuff: visit Buckingham Palace, see Big Ben, have a cream tea, try to find Coronation Street. But, of course, when you're on vacation you're always looking for something out of the ordinary, which means you don't get to experience the ordinary the normal. But should you want to experience the normal, head to Didcot. A recent study has crowned Didcot — crowned may not be the word — but has named Didcot as “the most normal town in all of England”. Apparently it comes closest to the national statistical median across 11 key metrics including: age, ethnicity and political engagement. We reached the town's Mayor, Steve Connel in Didcot.

CO: Mayor Connel, what kind of a distinction is it to be Mayor or the most normal town in England?

STEVE CONNEL: It's a strange thing. I've never thought of Didcot as being a particularly normal place. But then I guess no one really does when you live in a place. For me, normal is something that's not necessarily tangible. You can't really touch or feel smell normal. It's just whatever. People only really notice different.

CO: Is it an honor or is it an insult? What do you think?

SC: For me, normal is a real honor. I consider that we are such a caring community that if we considered normal then Britain’s in such a good shape and that's fantastic.

CO: Now, according to this study, how do they define Didcot as so supernormal?

SC: So they've looked at a number of different areas. So around age, around how people vote, around wealth, around what people do and I guess the reason people probably consider Didcot to be the most normal or the most average. Is because we have such a diverse range of people, so we have probably more scientists and more people with PhDs than anywhere else in Europe because we have people who do particle accelerators and space studies very, very close to us in the in the science villages. We also have a very large retired population. And, finally, we've got lots of people who commute to work. So we have a very, very large young working population — professional population. Also people who just get down and dirty in the blue collar sector and work for everything they have. And I hope that people who work is why we're considered normal.

CO: What are people in Didcot saying about the news that they are so normal?

SC: Most people are laughing. To me, the general conversation is people are looking at their family members and saying I guess we're normal now; people talking to their friends and laughing about it. I think in whatever country you are in or whatever town you're in. No one ever looks at their family or friends and thinks, “Yes, we're normal!” Everyone thinks because you know the people you're around so much better than those people who are coming in. You always consider yourself to have those idiosyncrasies or those weird aspects to you. People are just laughing about it and thinking it's a nice thing and maybe it’ll bring in some extra tourism to see all the various things we have in Didcot. So it’s fantastic.

CO: Do you have is the town motto?

SC: The town motto is called, “Faith in Service”. So that actually was on my chain that I wear as Mayor. And the premise around that is that you put other people first before yourself. And to me, that's what any public servant or any town person actually should do. If you put other people first then the whole community benefits.

CO: So you don’t want to say that this is the capital of normal… well, you say you're exceptionally normal. You could say, “Exceptionally normal here in Didcot.”

SC: That’s a great term!

CO: now, I was looking up Didcot on Wikipedia on the Internet and there was one thing that caught my eye. I was looking to see who might have come from Didcot and it's apparently the birthplace of William Bradbury, who was the first person to commercially cultivate watercress.

SC: Yeah.

CO: That’s just so normal isn't it?

SC: We were also the home of, I don't know if in Canada it's very popular, Thomas Tank Engine — the trains.

CO: Very popular. Thomas is from Didcot?

SC: Yes. So we actually have Thomas the Tank Engine based in Didcot. My son actually thought it made me the coolest dad in the world —the fact that the “Fat Controller” was me.

CO: I just had one last question for you just because there's another exceptionally normal place I think close by. How close are you to Reading?

SC: Reading is the next stop on the train, I go through almost every day to work. And before we go our cinema, it was where I used to have to go to watch films.

CO: OK, we’ll leave it there and I hope that everything remains excitingly an exceptionally normal in your town. It's good to talk to you Mayor Connel.

SC: Thank you very much.

JD: We reached Mayor Steve Connell in Didcot, which allowing four minutes for the first and five minutes for each subsequent sandwich is a three-and-one-fifth watercress sandwich train journey from Reading.

[Music: Ambient]

Book promo

Guest: Emma Jane Kirby

JD: There are currently some 50 million people displaced in this world. That is more than at any time since the end of the Second World War. It is arguably the single biggest story of our time Emma Jane Kirby is a reporter with BBC Radio. She has been covering that story, specifically the plight of refugees crossing the Mediterranean into Europe. In October of 2013, she reported on a shipwreck off the coast of Lampedusa. More than 400 people went overboard and the only rescue boat was a small pleasure craft designed to hold 10. Lampedusa’s only optician was on that boat. A man named Carmen Menna. He and his friends rescued 47 people. After interviewing Mr. Menna, Emma Jane Kirby wrote a book about his experience. It is called “The Optician of Lampedusa”. We will be airing Carol's conversation with Ms. Kirby as a special feature on Good Friday, April 14th. Here's an excerpt.

SOUNDCLIP

EMMA JANE KIRBY: One of his friends had an old boat and off they went on the boat. Had a great night and the night before and the optician wasn't sleeping very well. He woke up and heard the seagulls screaming as he thought over a lucky catch and he couldn't get back to sleep. It was annoying him the noise, so he came up on deck and then he started to hear those seagulls getting very loud and other people on the boat woke up as well, came up to see him and said what is that noise? So they upped anchor and they moved towards that terrible noise. And as they got closer, they saw black shapes in the water. The optician, at first, thought it was fish. They thought the black shapes were fish, but then he saw that these fish had arms and legs and faces. And he realized that the sea was boiling with drowning people. And, Carol, he was on a boat, I should say, that was a small boat. It had a maximum capacity of ten. There were already eight of them on that boat and there were hundreds of drowning people in the water.

CO: How did they respond to that when they saw those people? What do they do?

EJK: They knew immediately that they would help. The optician's first thought that he remembers and it stuck with me when I spoke to him in that interview a couple of years ago. He didn't say I wonder what do I do? How do I save them? He said how do I save them all? Because he realized right from the start that he was never going to be able to save them all — they couldn't. They were just too many of them. So what they did was they made a deal with each other that they had to move towards the groups of people that they could see rather than individuals and pull as many people up as they could at once. But remember these people had been in the water a very long time by that time. They'd been in the water several hours. They were exhausted. They'd drunk seawater and drank gasoline. They were covered in petrol and gasoline, which made them incredibly slippery to try and pull up. Two of the crewmembers jumped off and into the water to try and rescue people. And the optician remembers the pull of that first young man that he pulled from the water. He still remembers the feel of that man's hand in his, grasping it and feeling the bones of that young man's hand cracking against his. And suddenly, for him as he touched that young man he realized that the migrants and the migration crisis was real and it was something which now absolutely concerned him.

JD: That is Carol conversation with Emma Jane Kirby, the author of “The Optician of Lampedusa”. We will be airing that conversation in full on Good Friday, April 14th.

[Music: Ambient]

From Our Archives: Yevgeny Yevtushenko

JD: At the height of his fame, Yevgeny Yevtushenko could fill a stadium in Soviet Russia with thousands of fans. And with his voice Mr. Yevtushenko was not the kind of poet who muttered his verses into a microphone with his head down. He stood, he gesticulated and he performed his frequently defiant work in a way that reached the back seats. In an obituary published in The Daily Beast, Moscow journalist Anna Nemtsova writes quote, “Once, during one such poetic concert, Yevtushenko fans carried him around Moscow's Luzhniki Stadium as if an Olympic champion of poetry.” Yevgeny Yevtushenko was 83-years-old when he died on Saturday in Tulsa, Oklahoma — nearly ten thousand kilometers from his birthplace of Zima Station, in Siberia. He had been a faculty member at the University of Tulsa since 1992. His work traveled as far as he did, but it spoke directly to the experience of Russians growing up during the Cold War and struggling with the legacy of Joseph Stalin. And yet, he rejected the term political poetry telling the Associated Press in 2007, quote, “I call it human rights poetry; the poetry which defends human conscience as the greatest spiritual value.” Not everyone believed Mr. Yevtushenko was sufficiently opposed to the regime. Some accused him of being in league with the powers that be. And it is true that he enjoyed surprising freedom to write without the threat of exile or imprisonment. But he used his exceptional position to critique the repressive state and his criticism resounded with readers and listeners. In 1973, Yevgeny Yevtushenko visited the As It Happens studio with translator Barry Boys to speak with host Barbara Frum. During that interview, Barry Boys gave a reading in English and then Mr. Yevtushenko read the same poem in Russian. Here's what that sounded like, from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

BARBRA FRUM: Go ahead Barry.

BARRY BOYS: One of Yevtushenko most famous poems: “The City of Yes And The City of No” in Russian employees, in the first half, rhymes for no and, in the second half, rhymes for yes. In this English adaptation we attempt to do the same thing in our halting English.

YEVGENY YEVTUSHENKO: Don’t forget to say it’s your own translation, my dear.

BB: “The City of Yes And The City of No.” I am like a train rushing for many years now between the city of Yes and the city of No. My nerves are strained like wires between the city of No and the city Yes. Everyone's full of dread. Everything's dead. Little is said and none of it witty in the deathly city of No. It's an office in which only dejections grow. Every hope drowns in the endless no flow. Every object frowns saying less than it knows. The eyes of the portraits glare and glow with sidelong suspicion on age-old hates and ageless foes, as if they all had a very bad smell right under the nose. The floors are scrubbed and rubbed at dawn with buckets of bile and rags of scorn. The sofas are pseudo and stayed inlaid with the staff of errors and lies overstuffed with the coarse hair of compromise. The walls are made of stucco overlaid with the scrolls of yesterday's sorrow. Papered with hopes that have no tomorrow. Plenty of sound advice is what you'll get. God, what a laugh! You don't know the half. Not so much as a posy even when things seem rosy, but something much more prosy. Not a glad hand or a big hello, but a mouth full of regret is all that you'll get. As typewriters mechanically chatter as if you didn't know a staccato carbon copy memo. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And when the lights no longer glow, the ghosts rise up from below to dance their balletic death show. A ticket to leave is what you'll get in a pig's eye that's what you'll get. Didn't you know it's also a no-no to blow, split, go, quit the scene in that obscene crow black pigsty of No. But in the city of Yes life’s just a birdsong caress. Who's going to rush to the song of a thrush? The city of Yes is war-less, tenderness, without any mess. And the sky, can’t you guess, is completely cloudless. And the stars implore you to understand you can take anyone in the palm of your hand and lips. Guileless, shameless, ask for yours softly murmuring who could care less?Such sweet success in the city of Yes and no one has seen the least sign of distress and lowing herds no less offer their milk. Flowing softer and finer than the finest of silk. And daisies and butter cups just for a tease beg you to pick them as long as you please. And whatever you want to be in that world of Yes you are instantly there no matter where taking any plane or ship or express. And water faintly murmuring whispers like a caress. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes ,yes. Well it's completely boring at times to be given so much among so many rhymes in that effortless, spotless, blameless Dada-esque, rosy-pink city of Yes. Better let me be tossed around to the end of my days between the city of Yes and the city of No. Let my nerves be strained like wires between the city of No and the city of Yes.

YY: Audience, at this point, has about 20 rhymes for no and twenty rhymes for yes. So I think it's important information, especially for Canadian girls.

BF: How do you think he is as a reader? With that yes that's the dirtiest poem we've ever had on our program, my goodness!

YY: May I Read it in Russian?

BF: Please!

YY: [Reading in a foreign language: Russian]

BF: You didn’t read that, you kissed the microphone for all that time!

YY: Yes because you are woman, so I must defend it and protect it. So I was concerned about your time, my spiritual sister.

JD: That was the poet Yevgeny Yevtushenko, reading his poem "The City of Yes And The City of No" in the original Russian. Before that, Barry Boys reading his English translation of that poem. They were both on As It Happens back in 1973.Yevgeny Yevtushenko, the internationally celebrated Russian poet, died on Saturday. He was 83-years-old.

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April 3, 2017 episode transcript

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