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The AIH Transcript for March 1, 2017

Hosts: Helen Mann and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello, I’m Helen Mann.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

HM: Out of commission. It seemed like a huge step forward when a sex-abuse survivor joined the Pope's commission for the protection of minors -- but now she has quit, citing a distressing lack of progress.

JD: The red flag was a red flag. In 2015, a group of Confederate flag lovers cruelly disrupted an eight-year-old black child's birthday party -- and this week, two of them were given prison sentences.

HM: Whether you're a tree hugger or not, if you wear rayon, a tree is hugging you. But now, thanks to a Canadian group, an enormous American clothing conglomerate is now going to get its fabric from sustainable forests.

JD: It's good to have goals -- even if you have to move them when a car comes. For the first time in sixty years, it will once again be legal to play street hockey in the great city of Hamilton, Ontario

HM: It's usually not good when something goes off the rails. But in this case, it was very good -- because the something was a tractor trailer, which was saved from an oncoming train by a quick-thinking soldier.

JD: And... the only way to get the pee out of it is to call it a "swimming ool". But that really won't help -- because a chilling new study shows that if you're in a pool or hot tub, you're in urine.
As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that's deeply concerned about all these unauthorized leaks.

[Music]

Back To Top »

Part 1: Marie Collins, rayon partnership, Hamilton street hockey

Marie Collins

Guest: Marie Collins

JEFF DOUGLAS: When she was 13 years old, Marie Collins was molested by a priest. She went on to become a renowned campaigner for justice for survivors of clerical sex abuse. So in 2014, when Ms. Collins joined the pope's commission for the protection of minors, it was seen as a very big step for the Vatican.
And earlier todaym Ms. Collins resigned from the commission. We reached Marie Collins in Dublin.

HELEN MANN: Marie Collins, why did you resign?

MARIE COLLINS: I resigned after three years with the commission, basically because of the resistance within the Curia in the Vatican. I mean the Vatican administration. There are still men there who will not cooperate with the commission and that there are still men at that level in the church who would resist or hinder work to protect children in 2017. It's just not acceptable.

HM: Has Pope Francis reached out to you personally about your resignation?

MC: No, I haven't heard anything back from the Holy Father, but I have spoken to Cardinal O'Malley who is the president of the commission. He understands the resignation that he has invited me to continue working, training of new bishops and church leaders so I'm happy to continue to do that.

HM: What did he say when he expressed that he understood your position?

MC: I think he knows the frustrations that… the commission has had frustrations over the last three years. It's nothing new. There have been various manifestations of resistance from within the Curia to the work’s commission. And he would be aware how frustrating I have found that. I just couldn't continue. I mean I could not at this stage see the same attitudes that I saw when I tried to bring my own abuse to my own diocese 20 years ago. It's just appalling. It's dreadful and particularly at that level in the church, because the pope himself has supported the work of the commission. The commission has put forward proposals to him and he has backed them, but they go to the administration to be implemented and that's the level at which they are being hindered and held up.

HM: How is that being done by that administration?

MC: We had an accountability tribunal brought in in 2015 and announced by the Pope, approved by the pope which was to bring bishops before a tribunal and if they were negligent. And this went to the Curia to be implemented and they just found difficulties with this, as they said, legal difficulties, and it never happened. So it was never implemented. You know these men there who have for centuries, things are done in a certain way, and they don't want to see something happening, there are ways and means of seeing that it doesn't happen.

HM: You know that's what I wonder. Do you think this is an intentional thing or do you think it is a question of just pure bureaucratic ineptitude?

MC: No, I think it is an intentional resistance or not wanting to work with the pope's commission. I think it's more to do with Vatican politics and turf wars. Maybe by opposing us, they are opposing the pope. Whatever the reasons are, some of these men I think they just live in their own bubble you know they see the world only through the institutional eyes and the way they've always done things. And I think that may be resistance because the commission has laypeople. There may be some people in there would consider this were outsiders and really we shouldn't be interfering or telling them how to do something.

HM: So you're outsiders as sexual abuse survivors on a commission looking into that very thing?

MC: Well not just the survivors, but the members of the commission themselves. All good people and we're all working very sincerely, but some clerics in the Curia may see the whole commission as being an outside body interfering in their work. Not accept the commission because they would see that they should have the job. But we know how badly they handled this in the past so they needed outside experts to come in, and there could be some resentment to that, you know?

HM: At any point did you feel threatened by any member of the Curia or of the commission for positions that you took?

MC: No. I mean I've come out publicly and said something but I mean in the three years I've been there, I have been just as strong internally as spoken up and I've challenged things and I have to say my former colleagues on the commission have always shown me the greatest respect and listened to my concerns and listened to what I have to say. I've never had a problem with commission members. But it's very difficult when you couple up against this sort of attitudinal problem and clericalism it should not exist. And particularly when it's hindering the work of child protection.

HM: How do you see Pope Francis in this effort as part of the solution or part of the problem?

MC: It's not black and white. I think he has learned a lot about abuse in the last years. I think he understands more about it. He has come out and spoken very strongly about zero tolerance. I think he means that. And I think he's very sincere. But on the other hand he has made mistakes. I think he sometimes listens to the wrong advice and we have seen recent abuse rolled back, given clemency to some perpetrators and that is not a good move. It sends out the wrong message. So he is, he does make mistakes. But on the whole I think he is, as heart, he has the right attitudes. And I think he really does want to see this this work go forward. And as I say, he has backed the work of the Pontifical Commission and he's backed everything we've put before him. But it's just not as easy as it seems for a pope to get things done particularly if there are people in the Curia who are working against him.

HM: In weighing your decision, did it occur to you at any point that you might be more effective working inside the commission than taking this step?

MC: Well that's why I remained there for three years. You know it came to the point a number of times where I felt I had to leave, but I decided not to because I felt I just had to stay and keep fighting. Not against the commission, but keep fighting to try and help the commission get through the obstacles and through the resistance. So it just comes to the point where the frustrations become too much and you feel that it has come to the point, and I've come to the point now where I just feel that I can, by coming out and saying something, I can achieve more because I think some of these men they… secrecy and silence and facilitates them. You know I'd rather be able to speak and say what's happening. But I have tried. I stayed there for three years. It hasn't been an impulse to just walk away. I've tried very hard but I feel at this point, I can do more on the outside than I could inside. But I do wish my former colleagues well. I do hope the commission succeeds in it’s work and gets across these resistances and these hindrances. And I will continue to work on the training side which Cardinal O’Malley’s asked me to do.

HM: All right.

MC: So I'll get the opportunity to speak to the new bishops as they come through Rome about the experience of being a survivor and about why they have to handle things in the right way and stop perpetrators.

HM: Ms. Collins, it's very good to speak with you. Thank you so much.

MC: Not at all. Thank you.

HM: All right good bye.

MC: That was Marie Collins earlier today. She resigned from the Vatican's Pontifical Commission for the protection of minors. We reached Ms. Collins in Dublin. And you can hear a more in-depth interview with her on CBC Radio's Tapestry. Tune in for that Sunday March 12^th, CBC Radio 1.

[Music]

Rayon Partnership

Guest: Nicole Rycroft

JD: For years, Nicole Rycroft has been fighting to keep ancient trees out of your clothes. The popular silk alternative Rayon is made with wood pulp. Well now the largest apparel conglomerate in the U.S., V.F. Corporation has partnered with Ms. Rycroft’s Vancouver based non-profit and together, they aim to eliminate the use of ancient and endangered forests in the production of that company's clothing by the end of this year we reach Nicole Rycroft.

HM : Ms. Rycroft, Congratulations.

NICOLE RYCROFT : Well, thank you. Helen it's great to be here and it's nice to be talking about this major breakthrough for environmental conservation around the world.

HM: What is the significance of this decision by V.F. Corporation?

NR: Well when America's largest apparel conglomerate commits to eliminate their use endangered harsh fiber or socially controversial fiber from their clothing and the packaging and the paper, it really does provide a lift to global conservation and climate action efforts. So it's a really exciting announcement.

HM: Yeah many of us wouldn't know what V.F. corporation oversees. What kind of brands are under their umbrella?

NR: Yeah absolutely. I mean they really are a global power player. They have annual revenues of over 12 billion dollars, and close to 30 iconic brands. Many of which you know folks will be familiar with, like North Face, Timberland, Wrangler, Lee, Vans. And those kinds of more outdoor apparel companies.

HM: All right. So how exactly are forests being threatened endangered forest by rayon production?

NR: We were surprised when we discovered the link five years ago, that in fact you know 120 million trees every year disappear into the clothing that we all wear. And so what happens is, [unintelligible] tree is then sent to a pulp mill where it's put basically in a giant blender with a bunch of different chemicals. And 35 percent of that tree ends up coming out of that pulping process and that's then sent to a rayon mill where it's processed further, and you end up with the viscous staple fiber, is what it's called within the industry. And that's been put into the clothing supply chain that’s sent to a spinner, then to a weaver, to the dyer, and then it ends up in the malls, in the boutiques that we buy are clothes in.

HM: And only 35 percent of the tree is used?

NR: Yes it's not a very efficient process at all. In fact, it's quite wasteful.

HM: Right. Is this commonly known in the industry? Because you know in terms of consumers, you suggested that most people probably don't have a sense of this.

NR: No and I think you know it's not an intuitive link that that thing that you can get a splinter from can actually be that soft silky fabric that's close to your skin. And to be honest, when we first started reaching out to brands and designers and retailers five years ago, I think many of them were actually surprised at the link as well. And they were definitely surprised to find that such a significant amount of the fiber that was going into their rayon and their viscous fabrics was actually coming from endangered forest ecosystems around the world.

HM: What have you been doing to get the message out?

NR: So with we’ve much of the last four and a half to five years working with large brands like H&M, Zara, Levi's, luxury designers like Stella McCartney. So we’ve been working with the industry as a whole to make them aware of the issues, to make them aware of kind of the risk and the impact that rayon currently has. You know 120 million trees are disappearing into clothing every year. That's a significant impact on far like the Boreal here in Canada or Indonesia's rainforest. But it’s slated to more than double within the next decade.

HM: So you're making these efforts to reach out to these companies. Sounds like you are getting some good response beyond just V.F. But what about other corporations? Why aren't more of them buying into this?

NR: There are some companies that are slow to move on this issue and I think we're starting to get to that critical mass point where the distinction between the leaders and the laggers on the use of forested fabrics is starting to become a little bit more distinct, because we're even starting to see the rayon supply chain embrace this issue. We have global producers that represent 75 percent of global production and they are committed to eliminate their use of endangered forest fiber as well. So we're working with brands, and we're working with suppliers to really shift the supply chain in real time.

HM: You've indicated that these forests are located in a number of different parts of the world. When it comes to Canadian forests, which ones specifically are being harvested for this rayon?

NR: So historically, the temperate rainforests have been harvested. There was a mill that just recently was shutted, and will likely be reopened. So the big towering western red cedars on Vancouver Island have definitely been disappearing into the supply chain. Canada's Boreal forest has a number of dissolving pulp mills as well as is the region that at least at one point was slated as the forest ecosystem that was facing the largest increase in production capacity as the viscous market sort of expands. So definitely Canadian forests significantly impacted by the rayon supply chain currently and likely increasingly over the next couple of years.
So this work is really focused, not only in Canada but also as far globally, like Indonesia to make sure that any new infrastructure that goes in goes in in the right places, and if mills are located near intact and high carbon value forests, that there is appropriate conservation planning that takes place before the extraction plans and logging plan to work out in that area.
Our work is also with the brands really focused on how can we help support those next generation solutions like making fabrics from recycled fabrics, or from straw, which we have a lot of in Canada, rather than continuing to rely so extensively on forests to provide the raw material.

HM: How long do you think it will take before we see the real impact of this in these forests?

NR: Well we're already seeing it, actually. There's a very controversial pulp mill in Indonesia that has shifted its practices or is just starting to. It’s put in place a zero-deforestation policy, and it's just starting to resolve some of its longstanding community conflicts with traditional landowners. Here in Canada, one of the world's largest brown producers, one of its business subsidiaries, they're looking to convert one of the old paper mills that there is in the Boreal forest, that they’ve placed a moratorium over 1.1 million hectares of intact high carbon important kind of woodland caribou habitat, as they work out the conservation planning that's required for that 10 years. So we're all starting, already starting to see the fabric supply chain and the fashion supply chain actually really having a positive impact on the ground.

HM: Thank you Ms. Rycroft for telling us about it.

NR: Well thanks so much, Helen.

HM: Bye-bye.

NR: Bye.

JD: Nicole Rycroft is the founder and executive director of the Vancouver based environmental non-profit, Canopy. We reached her today in L.A. You can find more on the story on our website, cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Hamilton Street Hockey

Guest: Sam Merulla

SOUNDCLIP

Game on!

[Sound of pushing ball on ground]

He shoots, he scores.

One for One.

Guys going wild.

Car!

JD: Yes, soon, the not-exactly-soothing sounds of street hockey will return to Hamilton, Ontario. It's been illegal in the city for 60 years. But today, a city council committee voted to reverse the by-law -- eleven-to-three. Sam Merulla is the city councillor who fought for the change. We reached him in Hamilton.

HM: Councillor Merulla, how are you feeling after this victory today?

SAM MERULLA: Well I think somewhat relieved and content with the outcome. It's been a long time coming. It started in 2002 and now it's finally come to fruition which I'm pleased to announce.

HM: How did the illegality of street hockey in Hamilton come to your attention back then?

SM: Well it was my second year on council and at that time an individual, a child, a 10 year old child, by the name of Ryan Kotar was playing with his friends on Edgemount, a street here in Montfort, East Hamilton, and as a result there were a number of children playing and one neighbour in particular found that to be offensive. And as a result contacted by-law and the father of Ryan was charged at the time as a direct result and that brought national attention to the issue itself.

HM: So we actually interviewed Ryan Kotar’s father Gary when those charges were eventually dismissed. I'm going to play a clip right now. I want to set it up by saying Mr. Kotar had just told As it Happens host Mary Lou Finlay that if his kids wanted to play out in front of the house, he wasn't gonna stop them.

SOUNDCLIP

MARY LOU FINLAY: And what does the city council think about all of this?

GARY KOTAR: I'm not sure yet, but I guess it will be a debate where we'll debate it and see what we can do about it?

MLF: You've got one of the counselors standing up for you?

GK: Yep. Yes. Sam Merulla has been quite interested in this and he has voiced his opinion and I think with his help, and that, hopefully we can get something done.

HM: That was in 2002. What happened in that debate?

SM: Well unfortunately, the actual motion I brought forward was referred to staff for a report. They did come back with a report, but the report indicated that the exposure to liability was too great of a risk for us to pursue, and as a result it was defeated. So it was the insurance concerns that were driving this? Basically, liability [unintelligible] the denial of the request itself.

HM: Was there ever any indication that anyone planned to sue the city over this?

SM: No and that was interesting. The interesting component to all of this is because everything we do as a municipality could potentially expose us to my liabilty. However, a number of my colleagues at that time just felt that it would be difficult to vote against a legal opinion, hence it was defeated.

HM: So fast forward to now. And what's the impetus for changing the rules at this time?

SM: Well recently Toronto, the city of Toronto, engaged in a similar debate, and they received some powerful help from Queens Park encouraging the legalization of street hockey. I thought at that time that they would have the same outcome, because obviously all municipalities in Ontario are governed by the same rules, but Toronto were very creative and they put together a draft bylaw that set parameters. And with the vocal support of Queen's Park were able to move forward with the endorsement of council which I found very interesting and which we basically carbon copied.

HM: What happened in your council committee? Was it a rocky debate?

SM: No it wasn't. There were some that I guess were reluctant to support it, based on the same reasons, and as I said we always had somebody in the neighborhood that didn't like us playing street hockey and I guess the vote panned out in a similar fashion.

HM: You mentioned parameters to make this city feel more comfortable, or make the insurance company I guess feel more comfortable. What are the rules about street hockey in Hamilton now?

SM: Well the draft bylaw itself indicates that it would have to be on a side street, firstly, or a local road. There has to be a speed limit of 40 kilometers an hour. You can’t play beyond 8pm or it being dark, or early in the morning, where it would be obviously disruptive. So those are the parameters that really is the foundation of the bylaw itself. And we also set up a mediation initiative in the event that there are some concerns in the neighborhood.

HM: When people have to get out of the way of oncoming vehicles. That's part of the tradition. Right? You yell “car”.

SM: Well and interestingly enough, my council colleague Jason Farr wanted to amend it accordingly. But it was said in good humor.

HM: Oh I thought that was actually going to be put into the books.

SM: Exactly.

HM: Now Gary Kotar has died unfortunately in the time since the original case. Have you managed to speak with Ryan Kotar about the decision?

SM: Not directly but indirectly, and was very supportive for obvious reasons of the initiative, and I'm sure he's thrilled today as well.

HM: Maybe you and he should get together for a game on the street?

SM: I look forward to it.

HM: Do you play?

SM: Oh I do, absolutely. I grew up playing.

HM: Well it's good that you now can do it legally.

SM: That’s right.

HM: All right, thank you very much Mr. Merulla.

SM: My pleasure. Have a great day.

HM: You too, bye.

JD: Game on. Sam Merulla is a city councillor in Hamilton.

[Music]

Pee in pool

JD: Once you put up the sign, you probably assumed it was legally binding. And, provided your friend or guest can read, you might assume they've agreed to your perfectly reasonable terms. Because that sign appears to present a straightforward contract: "We Don't Swim In Your Toilet, So Don't Pee In Our Pool".
That request couldn't be more clear. But it turns out, your pool -- and all pools and hot tubs everywhere – are not. Not clear. Not at all.
Now u pon reflection, that contract was always flawed. Because you can't swim in a toilet, but you can pee in a pool. And, I'm very sorry to say, people do. Copiously.
Researchers from the University of Alberta proved that using an interesting method: they tested twenty-two pools and eight hot tubs for a substance called "acesulfame potassium", or "Ace-K".
Ace-K is an artificial sweetener that's in a lot of the stuff that we eat. A lot of the processed stuff. It goes in, but it doesn't stay in. It comes right out...when we pee.
You want to know the percentage of pools and hot tubs that contained Ace-K? You don't. You don’t want to know. But I'm going to tell you: 100 per cent. Every single pool and hot tub contained urine. And not just a thimbleful of urine. Over one three-week period, they estimated that people had peed 75 litres into one of the pools.
Now this does not give swimmers a warm feeling. Well, except for the ones standing in the shallow end for a suspiciously long time with a faraway look in their eyes.
Come on, you urinators. Don't pee in our pool -- because we really don't want to swim in your toilet.

Back To Top »

Part 2: Confederate flag sentencing, train track hero

Confederate flag sentencing

Guest: Hyesha Bryant

JEFF DOUGLAS: They called themselves the "Respect the Flag" group. And on a hot, sunny day in July 2015, 15 members of that self-proclaimed group climbed into pick-up trucks adorned with Confederate flags, and descended upon Douglasville, in Georgia.
At some point, that convoy of trucks came upon a birthday party for an eight-year-old black boy. Witnesses at the party say the group got out of their trucks, pointed their guns, and yelled racial slurs and death threats.
Hyesha Bryant will never forget that day. She was at that birthday party. And on Monday, she watched as two people were sentenced to prison time for what they did that day. Among other charges, they were found guilty of making terroristic threats.
We reached Hyesha Bryant in Douglasville.

HM: Ms. Bryant, what was it like for you to hear the judge deliver those sentences on Monday?

HYESHA BRYANT: It was emotional. I didn't think it was going to be what it… what he delivered. It was unexpected for me. I was in shock. I was like “Wow, like you really threw the book. You really made a point.”
It really took a moment to realize how serious the situation was and how severe it could have gotten. At the same time it was a bit of peace. And I'm just thankful that this is finally over.

HM: The sentence for the man Jose Torres is 13 years in prison, and the woman, Kayla Ray Norton, will spend six years in prison. The judge also says some pretty strong things to them in delivering those sentences. What did he say and what did you think of it?

HB: He said a lot. He talks about people showing their true colors. People have two sides. He said you have a side that you show people every day, and then you have true colours. I agreed with him. People may not act this way every day, but the moment that you chose to act this way and step out of character, of what you normally are, you were showing people a different side of you. And that right there really made an impact on me, coming from the judge.

HM: And did the sentences themselves, 13 years and six years. Did they satisfy you?

HB: I wanted them to be held accountable for their actions. But I can't say how long they should have gotten. I mean guns were pulled. Anything could have gone bad with those weapons. That day was a very emotional and traumatic experience that everybody had to deal with at that moment.

HM: Can you take us back to that day in July of 2015 and what happened to you and the others who were at that party?

HB: It's pretty simple, I guess. At a barbecue, at a birthday party. We were having a good time. It was a number of people there. A lot of kids were there. We had the bouncy houses. We had a DJ, a grill master was out there. We had a lot of stuff going on that day. We had tents out. We had signs up. We I mean it was just, it was a big day. And when these people passed by, pulled up, turned around, you know it was it was just them trying to show that they were there.

HM: And the vehicles had Confederate flags on them?

HB: Yes, multiple.

HM: What did they say? What did they do at that point?

HB: Calling us the N-word, saying “F you. You want some? We gonna kill you.” Like it was a lot being said. And when they actually pulled up, because we were all just kind of like “What's going on?” And when they actually pulled up, that's when things were very chaotic. We had women, children, everybody. We at first, we was just like, what’s going on? Then out of the blue, weapons were drawn, and so everybody was like “Get the kids in the house.” And it was… it was a crazy situation. Police came, nobody was arrested.

HM: How is it that no one was arrested at that point?

HB: I have no earthly idea why no one was arrested at that point.

HM: Were you familiar with this group, Respect the Flag. Were they known in Douglasville?

HB: No. Never heard of them and I'm I was born and raised in Douglasville. Never heard of them. Never seen them. I couldn't tell you anything about them.

HM: What did you tell the children and how did you how did you deal with their feelings?

HB: What am I still telling my children?

HM: Yeah.

HB: Like, I have to explain to my kids about the N-word. Cause that's a word that I don't use. So I had to explain to them like why mommy doesn't use it and why, you know, they were using it. And had to explain to them about hate.
Like, kids don't see colors. They only see and notice what he what parents teach them and what other people show them. They see friends. They see friendships. They see, you know, this is my classmate in the classroom. Basically what I had to explain that my kids were, there are some mean people that there. Many years ago the N-word is what they called black people. And a lot of white people many years ago didn't like black people. And it's sad that now today, we still have that problem. And this is something I'm having to explain. I'm having to explain why. I don't know why. I can't tell you why.

HM: Did your kids experience trauma, did you experience trauma in the aftermath when people are pulling guns and shouting at you?

HB: Did I experience trauma? I was afraid to leave my house. I was afraid to go to work the next day, but I had to get up and go to work. I was afraid to let my kids go outside and play games. Because nobody went to jail. I didn't know where these people were. I didn't know if I was followed. I didn't know anything. It was kind of like having to keep one eye open at all times because you don't know what their intentions are. You don't know.

HM: Charges were finally laid in October of 2015 and of course there was sentencing this week. You addressed the man and woman who were found guilty. And you said you forgave them. Can you explain why?

HB: That's a question that everybody is asking me. How can I forgive you when they were so full of hate? Life is too short to be full of hatred and anger. I'm a mother. How can I instill in my children values of love and respect if I am full of hate and anger. How can I sit up here and pray every night to God and say that I'm saved if I am full of hate in anger. You can't do it. I forgive every last one of them because that's what I am trying to instill in my children. There is enough hate in this world. They don't need mine on top of it.

HM: Ms. Bryant, thank you so much for speaking with us. I really appreciate it.

HB: You are more than welcome. Thank you for the opportunity.

HM: All right, goodbye.

JD: Hyesha Bryant lives in Douglasville, Georgia, where, in 2015, trucks flying confederate flags invaded a birthday party she was attending. They pointed guns, they yelled racial slurs and they made death threats. On Monday, two people were sentenced to prison for their roles in that incident. We have post more on that story on our website, cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Hire a Refugee

Guest: Omar Rahimi

JD: Omar Rahimi knows firsthand how difficult it can be to find work as a new Canadian, especially as a refugee.
Mr. Rahimi and his family built a new life in Winnipeg after fleeing war in his homeland, Iraq. But the transition was not easy. Which is why he hopes to ease the struggle of others coming after him with his website, hirearefugee.ca. And earlier today, Omar Rahimi told the CBC's Marcy Markusa, host of Information Radio, how it works.

SOUNDCLIP

OMAR RAHIMI: We get a lot of calls from customers who want to shovel driveways, you know, their houses or some businesses, and then I go out and through my connections, I meet and interview newcomers. I speak four languages, so Arabic Kurdish, Kurdish is my mother language, and Arabic, Farsi. I'm you know, I'm OK I can manage. And then English. So there's a lot of companies you know demolition companies, painting companies–

MARCY MARKUSA: So they’re contacting you through your website and you're making the matches?

OR: Yes. Yes.

MM: You mentioned people that you have contact with. That's because you have your own business that's been around since 2010. It's called Beautiful Canada Painting. I love the name. I love it.

OR: Yes. Well you know, I love Canada, and Canada gave me my life. And I owe everything to Winnipeg and Winnipeggers and Canada because I lived in a camp where a lot of my friends died from you know, in the war.
If I didn't come to Canada in 2001, there is a very good possibility that I would have died in 2003 or 2004, where the war happened in Iraq. And so I am so lucky to be here. I feel for the refugees. I know how they feel I know what they've been through. I can feel their families. They are so happy to be here and they're safe.

MM: What was it like for you to try to find work when you first came here? How does that to want to be productive?

OR: It's really hard. Biggest problem is you don't know where to look. You don't know how things work here. You know, in Canada, in Winnipeg, when you want to work for a company, you have to make a resume, you have to know how to approach their companies. Sometimes you take the resume, you never get the call back. But I told our people, you know you have to go back there and ask them again. If they say, OK come back tomorrow, you go back tomorrow. You keep going until you find a job.

MM: Some people believe, as you know, that refugees take jobs from Canadians. How do you respond to that?

OR: Well the jobs we do is very hard. If Canadians want to do those jobs, no problem. We are Canadians too. I'm Canadian and I am proud to be Canadian, and I will do any job that's out there and pays me and is safe and is legal and my guys are same. You know, if Canadians won the work, they call me and I will help them. Doesn't matter where you're from. We just want to work, just like everybody else.

JD: That was Winnipeg resident Omar Rahimi, creator of the website hirearefugee.ca. He was in conversation with the host of CBC's Information Radio, Marcy Markusa, earlier today.

[Music]

Train Track Hero

Guest: Rushad Bharda

JD: Rushad Bharda made a split-second decision yesterday and it almost certainly saved lives. Mr. Bharda is a Canadian Forces soldier. He was driving to Oakville, Ontario to visit his girlfriend. Underway, he spotted an 18-wheel tractor-trailer stuck on a set of train tracks. When he heard the blaring sound of the train horn in the distance, he sprang into action. We reached Rushad Bharda in Mississauga.

HM: Mr. Bharda, at what point yesterday afternoon did you spot this truck stuck on the tracks?

RUSHAD BHARDA: So it was around 1:30 a.m. to 1:45 yesterday. The truck was stuck about 40 cars ahead of me. It was a single lane road going over a train track and because it was stuck, there was a 40 car backup and I was around that area. I’m just estimating.

HM: Could you see why the truck was stuck?

RB: So as he was going over the train tracks, he was having an issue with going over and just as he started going over, the train track light started flashing and the arm started coming down.

HM: And did you witness all of that?

RB: Yeah absolutely.

HM: What was going through your mind?

RB: Honestly I just can't imagine the kind of stress that he must have been going through. He may have been thinking, this will be my last day because he was right over the tracks. So I felt like I had to do anything in my power to help him.

HM: And you're 40 cars, 40 vehicles back. So what did you do?

RB: As the bar was coming down, I saw him struggling with that. I immediately just pulled my car over to the side of the road and then I knew that I had to help him. So I just pulled over and just started running over to him and I ran those 40 cars in about his truck, but he kept trying to go forward and reverse, and eventually the whole arm snapped off.

HM: And can I just clarify, when you say it was it was stuck in the truck, how did how did that happen? Where was it?

RB: You know, in these 18 wheelers. There's like three, there's like two parts of the truck. There's the main cab and there's the rear load. So but the main cab also has a whole exhaust pipe that goes all the way up. Right? The arm actually got stuck between the back of his cab and the exhaust pipe which is a very small space. So by the time I was running I was just praying that I was going I was able to pick up that, to pick up that piece of steel and let him free through the tracks hopefully before the train came.

HM: And so do you see the snap as you were running?

RB: Yes I did. I saw the arm snap as I was running. So I knew at that point that was the only thing I could have done.

HM: And you decide you're going to try and remove this barrier from the truck. How did you do it?

RB: So I was able to just pick it up. Like, you know by the time you got there, adrenaline kicked in, and then I was able to just pick it up and throw it to the side, letting him free through the through that railway crossing. But unfortunately he left. He fled the scene.

HM: So he ran right through there and then just kept going.

RB: Exactly.

HM: Wow. How close did the train come to actually hitting the truck?

RB: About 20 meters. The train had enough time to stop.

HM: And where were you when the train came onto to the scene. How close were you to the train?

RB: Basically I was in the guy's blind spot. I was in his driver's side blind spot when the train came.

HM: And you say the train managed to stop?

RB: Yes.

HM: Wow. So did anybody get out of their cars to help you?

RB: So that was, honestly on the way back from helping this guy, that that was the thing that kind of kind of upset me the most, was that initially nobody else came and helped me. There were probably 30 or 40 cars in front of me and nobody came and helped. However, you know, we each make decisions for our self and risk management decisions for ourselves. And when I made that decision to go and help this guy and you know, I'm happy that he was able leave safe.

HM: And he was aware that you were doing this all the time?

RB: I couldn't even tell you. I don't think so.

HM: Oh so you don't think that he knew you were doing this before he took off.

RB: I don't think so. I don't think so, no.

HM: Do you think you're ever going to get a chance to talk to him?

RB: I couldn't… I have no idea. Maybe.

HM: I have to ask you the question that we always ask people in these situations. People are calling you a hero. Are you?

RB: No I'm not. Not at all. I've been the Canadian forces for… since 2014 and I've met heroes in my life. I've met war heroes. I met men who’ve been overseas, fight fought for our country, and you know, if you want to see a hero, go talk to one of those men because they’re real heroes. Go shake a police officer’s hand or a firefighter’s hand or an EMT’s hand. They're your real heroes. They’re our home defense.

HM: I have to say, I think I would like to have you in my corner if I ran into some trouble.

RB: Yeah. Well you know what? The military has given me the confidence in my own physical abilities to understand my own limits, and at that time I knew that you know other people may have not had that same confidence in themselves to do that. But you know, like in the military, it's like, when you see danger, you don't run from it you run towards it, and you know, you help everybody you can.
I think that's just such a Canadian value that there is, like just helping people, you know, being compassionate. Understanding this guy's perspective. And by no means am I a hero.

HM: What is your family saying to you?

RB: My parents are definitely proud of me. And honestly I'm just waiting for this 15 minutes to pass you know. But that's about it. Like I'm happy that everybody left there safely. You know people are calling me “hero” and this and that. But I don't feel that way at all.

HM: Well you did really great. Thank you for telling us about it.

RB: Yeah no worries. Thank you. All the best. Have a good one. Bye bye.

HM: You too.

JD: Rushad Bharda is a Canadian Forces soldier. He intervened yesterday when he saw a tractor trailer stuck on train tracks in Oakville, Ontario. That is we reached Mr. Bharda in Mississauga.

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Part 3: Oldest traces of life, Conservative debate, bowling competition

Oldest traces of life

Guest: Domenic Papineau

JEFF DOUGLAS: Until now, the oldest evidence of life on Earth had been found in rocks in Western Australia. But now, scientists are over Down Under -- because researchers from University College London have found micro-fossils that might be much older, right here in Canada. Specifically, in northern Quebec. The researchers say these micro-fossils could date back as far as four billion years.
Today's study on the discovery was published in the journal Nature. We reached the paper's lead author, Montreal native, Dominic Papineau, in London, England.

HELEN MANN: Mr. Papineau, what led you to this particular region in Quebec in your search for ancient life?

DOMENIC PAPINEAU: So I had been working on iron formation which are these iron rich rocks that provide most of iron for human use. I'd been working on these kinds of rocks for several years before, including some that are very old from Greenland. And in 2004, I learnt that these rocks in northern Quebec were just about the same age if not potentially older. Well, it's my home province and my country, so I had the urge to go. So I ended up going there in 2008.

HM: And what exactly did you find in the rocks there?

DP: So when I was in the field, I found these red-banded iron formations that have these rounded rock bits inside that are called concretions. And it's inside those concretions that we found several microfossils, including these filaments and these tubes that we report.

HM: And what's the significance of the filaments in the tubes? What did that raise in your mind?

DP: So the significance of the tubes and filaments is has many implications for various branches of science. First, for biology, evolutionary biology, it shows that organisms that are doing this today, that are creating this kind of twisted filaments that we document, appears to have been around for a long time since the beginning of the rock record. It's also significant for the origin of life because it these rocks have been dated directly with a method that has been used to date volcanic rocks. But that is a bit controversial currently in the in the scientific community, whether or not these rocks are really 4.28 billion years. So for the origin of life, it brings it between the origin of the earth, which is 4.657. That's easy to remember, to 4.28, so within 250 million years or so, life had originated. The last important implication is with respect to exobiology.

HM: Right. And when you say exobiology, explain what you mean.

DP: Searching for extraterrestrial life, which I think, if it exists, there would be a geological record of it on the planet where we would find it. Especially Mars, for instance, which is still a good candidate for still having living organisms. We don't know, but it's a possibility. And certainly now, the probability that life originated on Mars seems to be more likely from our discovery that shows that life can arise so quickly.

HM: So you didn't actually find organic material.

DP: We did. We did. The organic matter in these rocks however is quite metamorphosed So it's almost like graphite. Like your pencil lead that is. This is the expected result of the metamorphism, the recrystallization if you wish, the cooking of the organic matter that was microbial in origin. So if the microbes were there, they decayed, they were putrefied, and that was mineralized So we have evidence for that too, for their putrefied, mineralized remains. But also the microfossils themselves also contain similar minerals as we find in those structures that record the putrefied remains. That is minerals apatite and carbonate.

HM: And these are really tiny, these microfossils.

DP: Yes they're quite skinny, actually. I would describe them as skinny microfossils. They’re filaments, so their diameter is about five to seven microns. So definitely not something we can see with the naked eye, but they can measure lengths of almost up to a millimeter. So they can be quite long, but still, because they are so skinny, we cannot see them with our naked eye.

HM: Some other scientists are skeptical of your research. They say that because the earth had so much less oxygen back then, any life that could have existed would be even smaller than what you've found. How do you respond to that?

DP: Well I think that there are many anaerobic environments today, so environments that don't have any oxygen that have microorganisms that are just as big as those that we found. So I don't see the problem there with that argument.

HM: Now some of them also say that that these may not be fossils at all but some of called dubiofossils, basically lookalikes. What about those doubts?

DP: Right. So we had to carefully consider everything that we know because that's the only thing we can consider right? Is things that we know from experiments that can produce microfossil-like structures. So for us, it was very important to be able to reject the null hypothesis, which is that we need to eliminate all the non-biological interpretations or possible explanations before reaching a biological conclusion. I think we were able to do that, not only because the filaments that we documented have numerous morphological features, most of which cannot be explained by non-biological processes, but also from their chemical compositions. They are made of hematite. So hematite is an arid oxide that's very abundant in the rock record and it is a mineral that we know is secreted today by micro-organisms that oxidizes iron for a living and that live in hydrothermal vents environments and that share all these morphological traits that we were able to document.

HM: So what is next then in your research. Where do you look next for the earliest possible life?

DP: Well I would like to do more work on these rocks with more detailed techniques. Looking down at the nano-scale more systematically for chemicals and specific isotopic signatures that could further strengthen our interpretation but also could potentially tell us more about what these organs, these microorganisms were eating and breathing.
I also want to do this in other similarly ancient rock formations elsewhere in the world. There are not many. There's only four. And then eventually to do this on Mars. I think that's the next frontier, is to figure out if these processes also happen on Mars.

HM: All right. Well Mr. Papineau, thank you for explaining all of this to us.

DP: My pleasure.

HM: Okay bye bye.

DP: Thank you for your interest. Goodbye.

JD: Dominic Papineau is a researcher with University College of London. He is also the lead author of a study published today in the journal Nature that says the oldest evidence of life on Earth just may have been found in Quebec. And if that is true it means that life could date back more than four billion years which is almost the same age as the planet itself.

[Music]

Conservative debate

Guest: Michael Chong

JD: Michael Chong is going against the grain, and due to that, the Conservative MP faced some pretty sharp criticism at last night's leadership debate in Edmonton. Mr. Chong and his 13 rivals pretty much agree that Canada needs less government and more security. They strongly disagree on Mr. Chong's climate change plan. He is promising to put a tax on carbon and that is an idea the Conservative Party has pilloried for years. We reached MP Michael Chong in Calgary.

HM: Michael Chong, you got booed in Edmonton last night, perhaps not surprisingly, over your promotion of a carbon tax. How do you plan to convince Conservatives, who've basically seen that as the devil, that they should embrace the idea?

MICHAEL CHONG: Well, there are a lot of Conservatives who are coming aboard our campaign precisely because we're putting forward a revenue neutral carbon tax. Today, we had the endorsement of former Alberta Minister, Gary Mar who's supporting us, because he believes it's a necessary policy for us to win in 2019. We've got senior Conservatives like Mark Cameron the former head of policy for Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who's supporting our plan, and many other Conservatives. So while this is a bold initiative, it is a Conservative way to reduce emissions and that's why it's attracting a lot of debate. And the reason why I think it is the Conservative way forward is that it's backed by good economic evidence. The cheapest way to reduce emissions, the most conservative way to reduce emissions, is the revenue neutral carbon tax, where you use all the revenues to introduce cuts to income taxes. This is a model that's been used successfully in British Columbia.

HM: Can you win though the support of Alberta voters, the most perhaps traditionally Conservative province in this country, by promoting this?

MC: Well there are clearly Conservatives in Alberta who don't support it and that was clear at the debate last night. But there are also many Conservatives who do support it, and we're hearing from Conservatives in Alberta like former Alberta Minister, Gary Mar, who are joining our campaign precisely because of our position on this. So while it's elucidating a lot of strong debate, I think that's a good thing for the party. Now's the time to have a debate on carbon pricing, on carbon taxes in the middle of a leadership race, rather than in the third or fourth week of a general election campaign. So I'm happy to be part of this debate. I think we need to have a credible position to reduce emissions going into the 2019 election if we're going to win. And I think that starts with a Conservative approach to reducing emissions that is based on Conservative principles of free markets and smaller governments. And that solution is a revenue neutral carbon tax.

HM: The carbon tax is just one thing that's dividing you from some of your rivals. We've been hearing from Kelly Leitch about her values tests for Canadians, and then at the same time we have you who spoke out very vocally after the Quebec mosque shooting, talking about people not normalising hate in this country. Do you see yourself as a potential outlier in the Conservative party? I’m just wondering how you might challenge that perception?

MC: Well I think we are offering a very different vision for the Conservative Party and I think conservative party members have a stark choice in this leadership race. This race is really a battle for the soul of the Conservative Party. On the one hand, we have a narrow vision of the party that plays to anti-immigrant sentiment, that plays to fear, and that plays to a very narrow vision of this country.
On the other hand my vision which is a much bigger Conservative Party. An inclusive party that includes Canadians of all races, religions, and creeds. That's not focused on dividing one Canadian against another, but rather focused on a fiscally Conservative agenda to create economic prosperity for everyone.

HM: You're running against 13 opponents. 12 were there last night. You know, that guy who skipped the debate is getting a lot of attention. I'm wondering how you distinguish yourself and stand out with all this focus on Kevin O'Leary because he has been grabbing a lot of the spotlight.

MC: Well I think we stand out because of the policies and the vision that we're putting forth. We're putting forward a very robust vision of democratic reform. If I'm elected leader, and I'm Prime Minister, my government will introduce the most sweeping set of democratic reforms to the House of Commons and to political parties that will sweep out political elites and return true power back to ordinary party members and ordinary Canadians. We are presenting a very ambitious agenda, a conservative agenda, to reduce emissions. It starts with our federal revenue-neutral carbon tax that will allow us then to implement the third pillar of our platform which is our economic agenda which is based on introducing massive income tax cuts to get this economy moving and to put more money back into the pockets of Canadian and Canadian companies.

HM: You may say your policies are different, but it's not getting you the same amount of attention as some of the other candidates. Last night Lisa Raitt actually said it was time for some of them, seven, to drop out of the race. What do you plan to do with that advice?

MC: Well I think it's up to Conservative Party members. We're putting our best foot forward and it's up to the members, this May 27^th, to make up their mind about who the party leader will be. At the end of the day, we're doing our level best to get our policies known and to get our vision for the party known and at the end of the day, it's up to those 90,000 or so party members to make that decision.

HM: Is there anything that would lead you to quit the race before the final day?

MC: Not at all. I think our campaign is presenting a very different alternative in this leadership race to the rest of the campaigns. We're presenting a very different vision on the economy. We start with the largest income tax cut of any of the 14 candidates in this race. We're presenting a very different vision on climate change and the environment. We as Conservatives need to do better on environmental issues we have to have credible conservative solutions to reducing emissions. And we're presenting a very different vision for our democracy. We need to implement democratic reforms. I think the current government's breaking of its promise in electoral reform has disappointed many many younger people and these younger people want to see our democracy strengthened. They want to see more participation. They want to see stronger Democratic reforms and our campaign is presenting that.

HM: Michael Chang thank you for taking time to talk to us.

MC: Thank you for having me, Helen.

HM: All right, bye-bye.

MC: Bye-bye.

JD: Michael Chong is one of the leadership candidates for the Conservative Party of Canada. We reached him in Calgary.

[Music]

Rhianna Harvard

JD: At an awards ceremony at Harvard University yesterday, a young woman by the name of Robyn Rihanna Fenty was called to the stage. You would likely know her as Rihann. The pop music phenomenon from Barbados was being recognized as Harvard's Humanitarian of the Year. Rihanna has helped build oncology programs in Barbados and she created a fund to help students in developing countries attend college in the USA. Here is a clip from her acceptance speech.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBYN RHIANNA FENTY: So I made it to Harvard.

[Sound: audience screams]

RRF: Never thought I'd be able to say that in my life. But it feels good. I'm incredibly humbled by this. To be acknowledged for something that in truth, I've never wanted credit for. When I was five or six years old I remember watching TV and I would see these commercials and I was watching other children suffer in other parts of the world. You know the commercials, where you could get 25 cents and save a child's life and I would think to myself, like I wonder how many 25 cents I could save up to save all the kids in Africa. And I would say to myself, you know like, when I grow up and I get rich and I'm going to save kids all over the world. I just didn’t know I would be in the position to do that by the time I was a teenager.
At 17, I started my career here in America. And by the age of 18, I started my first charity organization. People make it seem way too hard man. The truth is, you don't have to be rich to be a humanitarian. You don't got to be famous. You don't even have to be college educated. I mean, I wish I was. I'm not saying you know.
My grandmother always used to say if you got a dollar, there's plenty to share.

JD: Barbados born Rhianna accepting an award as Harvard University's Humanitarian of the Year.

[Music]

Bowling competition

Guest: Todd Powell

JD: This past weekend, seven year old Grayson Powell was bowling the game of his life. He had just scored a high round of 171 at his very first tournament. He and his team were on track to win, and then a gutter ball, metaphorically speaking. Grayson was disqualified. He apparently was wearing the wrong color of pants during competition. Todd Powell is Greyson's father. We reached him earlier today in Conception Bay South, Newfoundland.

HM: Mr. Powell, what color were your son's pants at that tournament?

TODD POWELL: My son's pants were faded black jeans.

HM: Why wasn't this good enough for the tournament organizers?

TP: Obviously, they do have a rule. And I understood the rule prior to going in that they had to be black pants. Unfortunately I was unavailable to find some black pants for our son. We searched a couple of stores, a few stores for pants, couldn't find them. So we did have a black pair of faded pants at home, so we took those to the lanes. He wore those.

HM: Is there any problem that the fact that he was wearing denim?

TP: They said there was a problem with denim. But through talking to people in the bowling community, they said denim is fine long are black.

HM: They were just too faded.

TP: Too faded I guess, is the color. That's what I'm gathering. Maybe it is the denim. They say it’s no denim either. But regardless, of that, they should have addressed it.

HM: How did your son take the news when he found out that he was disqualified for wearing faded black jeans at the tournament?

TP: He's seven years old, so not many seven year olds understand what's taking place. All he knew, is he wasn’t getting a medal. And he was rather upset he was leaving the bowling lanes with no medal. You know, he bowled, hard as he could. He bowled the best he ever bowled. And this was his first tournament.

HM: And they were for sure going to get a medal before this happened.

TP: Oh yes they would won the provincial tournament, yes.

HM: So why didn't organizers say something about the pants he was wearing before the competition started?

TP: I guess, speaking to the organizers, they said it wasn't their duty to check all the pants. It was up to the program directors. And the program director said she didn't notice Greyson’s pants prior. So after the first game of bowling, I guess, parents and other coaches spoke up and said “The child has the wrong colour pants on” and they made a decision after the second game without the kids knowing, or the parents, my wife knowing that their stores would no longer continue. They were just going to bowl it out. And at the end of it, they told my wife and two other parents that they're going to be disqualified from the tournament.

HM: Do you think this was a sufficient reason to expel the team?

TP: Absolutely not. I think it's a small technicality. I understand rules are rules. I’m not going to go against that. You know I mean, the Program Director, or the head of the Bowling Association that was there, could have spoke up and said “This is a fun tournament for these kids.” Getting these kids into competition. Some of these it’s their first tournament. So they could have said “All right. Thanks for your concerns. However, we'll let these kids bowl out. The colour of pants or the material he wore had no effect on how that team bowled.”

HM: Do you think there were other motives at play here?

TP: My opinion. Yes I do. I think the outcome was, for the parents who spoke up, they must have looked at it and said OK we could have our team win if we speak up. And for parents to come in to an amateur sport and to try and figure out how they can win for their child without winning by score… As far as I’m concerned, they should be ashamed of themselves. The way it should have worked out is that there should have been, wherever the score was on the bowling lanes, that's what the outcome was. The technicalities can be handled after, but I think they dropped the ball here.

HM: The organizers of the competition, they say that you know, the rules were in place. You knew the rules. They don't think they did anything wrong. Gord Davis who was the head of this, wrote on Facebook saying much the same thing. How should they have handled it once the complaints were given to them?

TP: So Mr. Davis said an apology will not come from him or from the YBC organization. I think he's wrong and he’s put it back that means he thought the apologies should come from the parents. You guys broke the rules. You're the one did your kid wrong. You shouldn’t have brought him to the bowling lanes if you didn't have the right pants.

HM: Has anyone apologized to you?

TP: No they haven't. Gord apologized to my wife, on Saturday, for the outcome. But me as a parent, I don't want the apology. The kids deserve an apology.

HM: How are you discussing this with Grayson right now and the other kids, I guess, in terms of where they go from here?

TP: We’ve told Grayson we're very proud of him and as far as I’m concerned, he understands that he won that tournament. And his family and friends that are around him are proud of him. I don't see a whole lot of support going towards YBC program today. I see more support coming through Grayson. I’m getting direct messages. “How can we send Grayson a medal? How can we make this right for him?”
We are overwhelmed with the support of the bowling community. People in general from as far as Alberta, to reach out to us and say “How can make it for Grayson?” The way you make it right is make changes to the YBC program. If Grayson gets his medal back, that’s great. It’s good for Greyson. But at the end of the day, this should never happen to a child or his teacher.

HM: Does he still want to bowl?

TP: He does. But until we get some resolution on how we can get this rectified, and making it coming to a positive outcome for the YBC program – I don't think they're going to I think they're going to take the high road and say “No, this is what it is.” But the ball's in their court. They can make this a positive outcome and I'm sure people will turn around and say “Mr. Davis, you did the right thing.”

HM: Has anyone suggested that you know the league itself maybe provide uniforms, because putting this all on parents and kids?

TP: They do provide jerseys. And Mr. Davis said he's in his post that the Riverdale Lanes had to provide my son with a jersey. That's not true. We did purchase a jersey and he had his own bowling shirt. Unfortunately couldn't find the pants. It wasn't coming down about money, if we could afford to buy pants. It’s that we could not find a proper pair of pants for Grayson to wear.

HM: But if it was about money, what does that say about allowing kids to compete?

TP: If I couldn’t afford pants, so what do I tell my son? You can't go bowling because Mom or Dad can't afford a pair of pants? Kids don't understand money. They don’t understand financial situations. Sport is about making memories for kids so they can have friendships and that at the end of the day, they are involved in activities.

HM: You make some really good points, Mr. Powell. I appreciate you talking to us today.

TP: Thank you.

HM: Bye-bye.

TP: Bye-bye.

JD: That was Todd Powell. We reached him in Conception Bay South, Newfoundland earlier today. And since we spoke to Mr. Powell, organizers have relented, and Grayson did indeed get his medal back.

[Music]

New South Wales plastic bags

JD: Dateline: New South Wales, Australia.

[Music]

JD: It was a great idea in principle -- but a bad idea on paper.
A lot of people in New South Wales want a ban on plastic bags. A hundred-and-seven thousand and seventy-three, to be precise -- all of whom signed a petition.
Of course, it's 2017. So these people didn't literally sign anything. But they did add their names to an online petition. More efficient, and more environmentally friendly. And that is whole point: eliminating waste, whether it's plastic bags or paper.
But here's the thing: any petition that gets more than 500 signatures is guaranteed a response from the appropriate minister. But under current parliamentary rules, that petition has to be, "typewritten or written in ink and on paper -- signatures cannot be collected or submitted electronically."
Greens party MP Mehreen Faruqi assumed a USB stick would be okay anyway, largely because, as I mentioned, it's 2017. But she was informed that, as far as New South Wales Parliament is concerned, it's actually somewhere closer to 1978. She would have to submit a hard copy, or the petition would be considered out of order.
Ms. Faruqi has pointed out that that would require almost four thousand sheets of paper. She told the Sydney Morning Herald, "Even worse, those thousands of pages would then be scanned and electronically stored."
That's obviously ridiculous, even to the Parliament, which has struck a committee to look into this whole "electronic petition" thing that the kids are into nowadays. Let's hope they do away with the paper rule, because at the moment, it's the stuff reams are made of.

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March 1, 2017 episode transcript

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