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The AIH Transcript for December 27, 2016

Hosts: Helen Mann and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello, I’m Helen Mann.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

HM: Growing unsaddled by growing settlements, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry takes what may be his last opportunity to address Israel on the world stage, and his disapproval meets with disapproval.

JD: Background comes to the foreground. Author Joseph Boyden becomes the subject of controversy after an investigation raises questions about his claims of Indigenous ancestry.

HM: Force of rabbit. The late Richard Adams was a civil servant when his daughters insisted he write down the story he had told them which is how he came to publish the bestselling novel Watership Down.

JD: All washed up. Confusion and concern in Nova Scotia where something is killing thousands of fish and sea creatures. So far no one knows what it is.

HM: Putting on the rights. Same sex unions, playing ball, and bearing arms, even if you're legally blind. Stories about all these rights and more on tonight's trip into the archives, which you're free to hear.

JD: And the inside scoop. Our favorite guests of 2016 did not repeat themselves, but we’ll repeat them tonight. Including an ice cream truck driver who explained the chilling turf war going on in New York City. As It Happens the Wednesday Edition. Radio that doesn't believe the drivers are supposed to give each other the shakes.

[Music]

Back To Top »

Part 1: Joseph Boyden: Muskrat Magazine, Nova Scotia dead fish

For the record: John Kerry, Benjamin Netanyahu

JD: John Kerry is not leaving the world stage without a fight. The U.S. secretary of state will be replaced in just a few weeks, but in Washington today, he delivered a passionate and sometimes finger pointing warning to both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian divide. The speech followed days of protests from the Israeli government after the U.S. refused to veto a Security Council resolution condemning Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories. And while Secretary Kerry denounced Palestinian leaders for condoning what he called “violence and provocation,” his message for the Israeli government is what is making headlines tonight. Here's some of what John Kerry had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHN KERRY: Today there are a number, a similar number, of Jews and Palestinians living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. They have a choice. They can choose to live together in one state, or they can separate into two states. But here is a fundamental reality. If the choice is one state, Israel can either be Jewish, or democratic. It cannot be both. And it won't ever really be at peace.
Moreover the Palestinians will never fully realize their vast potential in a homeland of their own with a one state solution. Now most, on both sides, understand this basic choice. And that is why it is important that polls of Israelis and Palestinians show that there is still strong support for the two state solution in theory. They just don't believe that it can happen.
After decades of conflict, many no longer see the other side as people. Only as threats and enemies. Both sides continue to push a narrative that plays to people's fears and reinforces the worst stereotypes, rather than working to change perceptions and build up belief in the possibility of peace.
Now at the same time, we have to be clear about what is happening in the West Bank. The Israeli Prime Minister publicly supports a two-state solution, but his current coalition is the most right-wing in Israeli history, with an agenda driven by the most extreme elements. The result is that policies of this government which the prime minister himself just described, as more committed to settlements than any in Israel's history are leading in the opposite direction. They're leading towards one state. In fact Israel has increasingly consolidated control over much of the West Bank for its own purposes. I don't think most people in Israel, and certainly in the world have any idea how broad and systematic the process has become. But the facts speak for themselves. The number of settlers in the roughly 130 Israeli settlements east of the 1967 lines has steadily grown. The settler population in the West Bank alone, not including East Jerusalem, has increased by nearly and 270,000 since Oslo. Including 100,000 just since 2009 when President Obama's term began.
Nearly 90,000 settlers are living east of the separation barrier that was created by Israel itself, in the middle of what by any reasonable definition would be the future Palestinian state. Now I really began to reflect on what we have learned and the way ahead when I recently joined President Obama in Jerusalem for the state funeral for Shimon Peres. Shimon was one of the founding fathers of Israel and became one of the world's great elder statesman. And I remember the first time that I saw Shimon in person standing on the White House lawn for the signing of the historic Oslo Accords. And I thought about the last time at an intimate one on one Shabbat dinner just a few months before he died when we toasted together to the future of Israel and to the peace that he still so passionately believed in for his people. He summed it up simply and eloquently as only Shimon could. “The original mandate gave the Palestinians, 48 percent. Now it's down to 22 percent. I think 78 percent is enough for us.” As we laid Shimon to rest that day, many of us couldn't help but wonder if peace between Israelis and Palestinians might also be buried along with one of its most eloquent champions. We cannot let that happen. There is simply too much at stake for future generations of Israelis and Palestinians to give in to pessimism especially when peace is in fact still possible.

JD: U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry speaking earlier today in Washington D.C.
It did not take Israel's prime minister long to respond. Here is some of what Benjamin Netanyahu had to say in Jerusalem.

SOUNDCLIP

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: Now I must express my deep disappointment with the speech today of John Kerry a speech that was almost as unbalanced as the anti-Israel resolution passed at the U.N. last week in a speech ostensibly about peace between Israelis and Palestinians, Secretary Kerry paid lip service to the unremitting campaign of terrorism that has been waged by the Palestinians against the Jewish state for nearly a century. What he did was to spend most of his speech blaming Israel for the lack of peace by passionately condemning a policy of enabling Jews to live in their historic homeland and in their eternal capital, Jerusalem. See this conflict is not about houses or communities in the West Bank, Judea Samaria the Gaza district or anywhere else. This conflict is, and has always been, about Israel's very right to exist.
That's why my hundreds of calls to sit with President Abbas for peace talks have gone unanswered. That's why my invitation to him to come to the Knesset was never answered. That's why the Palestinian government continues to pay anyone who murders Israelis a monthly salary. The persistent Palestinian refusal to recognize a Jewish state remains the core of the conflict. And its removal is the key to peace. Palestinian rejection of Israel and support for terror are what the nations of the world should focus on. If they truly want to advance peace and I can only express my regret and say that it's a shame that Secretary Kerry does not see the simple truth.

JD: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem today. And as you heard, he was responding to a speech from U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry warning that the expansion of Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories is jeopardizing the possibility of a two-state solution. Prime Minister Netanyahu appears to have Donald Trump support. In advance of Mr. Kerry's comments, the President-Elect tweeted “We cannot continue to let Israel be treated with such total disdain and disrespect. They used to have a great friend in the US but not anymore. The beginning of the end was the horrible Iran deal. And now this (U.N.)! Stay strong, Israel, January 20th is fast approaching.”

[Music]

Joseph Boyden: Muskrat Magazine

Guest: Rebeka Tabobondung

JD: Joseph Boyden is one of the most prominent Indigenous writers in Canada. He won the Giller Prize for his 2008 novel Through Black Spruce and CBC's own Canada Reads competition in 2014 for The Orenda. Now however more and more people are asking uncomfortable questions about his Indigenous ancestry, mainly to what degree he has any.
This conversation went public after an Aboriginal Peoples Television Network investigation took a deep dive into Mr. Boyden’s claimed roots, in a piece called "Author Joseph Boyden's shape-shifting Indigenous identity." Rebeka Tabobondung is the editor of a Muskrat Magazine. We reached her in Sooke, British Columbia.

HM: Rebeka Tabobondung, what went through your mind when you read APTN piece on Joseph Boyden and what they call his “shape-shifting Indigenous identity.”

REBEKA TABOBONDUNG: Well for me, it wasn't actually much of a shock. I was actually quite relieved and happy that APTN did the story, because these have been concerns within my community, which is the literary kind of Indigenous arts community, and just my own personal experience with Joseph. So I was over the years, have just been confused and concerned that he has been misrepresenting himself.

HM: I know it's a very complicated piece having read it, but for those who haven't, can you briefly summarize the key points?

RT: The piece basically brings up some of these complicated issues around his claims to his Indigenous ancestry. But the piece goes quite in depth in terms of actually tracing his genealogy through consulting archival records and speaking with a recognized genealogist trying to actually trace his familial roots, including interviews with his family members. And so my takeaway is that he has next to no Indigenous ancestry, if any at all, that can be proven in this format.

HM: Joseph Boyden has responded to the investigation with a statement in which he says he has Nipmuc roots and Ojibway roots on each side of his family, one or the other. And he describes his Indigenous heritage as a small part of me. What do you make of his defense?

RT: I think that is fine. That is his truth that he's speaking. I think the problem was, for me, you know, over the years, is that he's been described as a shape-shifter in the sense that he's not been upfront or clear about what those roots are exactly and to which nation he comes from. And so that was my own experience with him, was you know I asked him directly, while I was attending an Indigenous literary conference, what is your connection, what is what is your nation? And this, you know, is not an uncommon question. It's actually… as a publisher with Muskrat Magazine, we’d always ask our writers, you know, what is your nation affiliation? And so his response to me was he was from Wasauksing First Nation, he said “I'm from with Wasauksing First Nation.” And I at that time got really excited because I'm from Wasauksing First Nation. So I said I was surprised and I asked around the community. I asked to recognize it community historian what his connection was. And she said she didn't know.

HM: Do you think Joseph Boyden has profited from his association with Indigenous identity?

RT: Oh absolutely, I think so. He has profited in the sense of his public profile has very much increased. And then there have also been you know all kinds of financial gains. He's won Indigenous prizes in terms of literary competitions, and you know in terms of funding arts funding et cetera, he's received a lot of that.

HM: Yeah. On the other hand, on the other side of this, does his profile, and his pointing out these issues to so many people, to an international audience really, also benefit Indigenous causes and Indigenous communities?

RT: I mean I think that it does benefit to a certain degree, elevating some of these issues. But at the same time I think that as a society, we want these issues to be brought to the forefront in an honest way, in a way that has integrity, that reveals these issues in all of their complexities. So when somebody is speaking on behalf of other communities, and you know, they're not grounded in that community, there are certain losses that happen in terms of their interpretation of history.
And there’s a lot of criticism in the Native community, that his approaches to depicting, you know, the Iroquois history and people, that that actually has negative consequences and it feeds into the perpetuation of negative stereotypes. You know, I think within our communities, you know for all artists, we have a responsibility to the people who we are representing and the stories that are being told. And there are certain protocols that we have and part of that, a huge part of that, is speaking from a place of truth.

HM: Since this story came out, I've read a number of people say, they don't think this is a conversation that should be held in public, that it's a conversation that should be held within Indigenous communities. Do you think there's a point to that? Is there potential damage in having this broader discussion outside of those communities?

RT: No, I don't think there is damage in having the discussion. You know the point is not to like make him crumble or anything like that. But I think we all come from different walks of life, Indigenous people and non-Indigenous people. And we when we take on spaces of leadership, we should all make an effort to locate ourselves. You know, so even as Indigenous people, some of us are adopted into communities, some of us are raised in cities, some of us are raised on the reserve, some of us have been raised on trap lines. We cannot speak for those other communities in which we do not come from. We as a society I think, we all have a responsibility to locate ourselves and to recognize what our privileges are and where the gaps are, where we really don't have a right to maybe occupy you know, another person's space.

HM: What would you like to see Joseph Boyden do next?

RT: Well I'm not sure. I mean I feel that his response, to say that he feels that he's been shamed, that people that are critical of how he's misrepresented himself, that we are just you know shaming who he is, I think that is very sad, because I don't think he should be ashamed of who he is. I don't think anybody should be ashamed of who they are. But he should be answering to the call that he has misled people, that he has taken money for his benefit, and that you know, his profile has been increased immensely, and I think that it would be great to you know look towards some of our teachings, the Seven Grandfather Teachings, of being a person of truth and also humility, and those are hard things. Those are some of the hardest things we all struggle with in life. So I just hope that you know, he doesn't feel shame in who he is, but that he takes responsibility for what he has done.

HM: MS. Tabobondung, it's been good to talk with you. Thank you.

RT: Thank you so much. Bye.

JD: Rebeka Tabobondung is the editor of Muskrat Magazine – an online Indigenous arts, culture, and living magazine. We reached her in Sooke. We requested an interview with Joseph Boyden, but did not get a reply. For more on this story, go to our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Richard Adams Obit

JD: It started as a story to entertain his daughters during a car ride. But when he got home, at their urging, he wrote it down. And it went on to become a best-selling novel, and kicked off his writing career when he was 50 years old.
That novel was Watership Down. The first novel by Richard Adams – about a group of rabbits searching for a new home.
Mr. Adams died on Christmas Eve. He was 96 years old.
Before becoming a writer, he had spent much of his life working as a civil servant in London. And when Watership Down was published, he turned to writing full time. After all, the book sold millions of copies around the world. And he went on to write picture books, short stories, and other novels – including Traveller, written from the perspective of Robert E. Lee's horse.
In 1988 He spoke with Peter Gzowski about that book in 1988. Here's part of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

PETER GZOWSKI: Where did the idea of telling a story through the eyes of Traveller come from?

RICHARD ADAMS: Well it goes back a long way. A fan, an anonymous fan, and someone I didn't know and will never meet again was talking to me. I rather think in a bookshop during the Watership Down tour, saying how much he liked Watership Down, and then he asked me whether I knew about Robert E. Lee. And I said yes, as it so happened, I knew quite a bit about Robert E. Lee because I studied military strategy as a special subject at Oxford. And he said did I know about his wonderful horse? I said no I didn't know about his wonderful horse, so he told me that Traveller and Robert E. Lee had been one of the great horse-man partnership's of history like Alexander and Bucephalus and Napoleon and can't remember–

PG: Marengo.

RA: Marengo, you’re quite right. But he said Traveller and Robert E. Lee were the greatest partnership of the lot. And this stuck in my mind, and wouldn't that make a wonderful story? But I never dreamt how hard it would be to make it… well shall I say believable? It isn’t really believable, it's a game isn't it? I ask the reader to suspend disbelief.

PG: The person comes in, suggests the story to you, and you have… I didn't know that either, that you have a military history background, and then what do you do? Are you a horse person?

RA: No. I researched the psychology of the horse with the help of a wonderful Englishwoman called Lucy Rees. Actually she'd be cross if I said English woman, because she's a Welsh woman. Lucy Rees is the authoress of a marvelous book called The Horse’s Mind. And it's not sentimental in the least, Peter. Actually it extrapolates horse psychology from horse physiology, and from her own deep knowledge and love of horses. And you do get to realize what it must be like to be a horse when you study that book closely. I relied entirely on Lucy Rees and The Horse's Mind for Traveller’s horse psychology. And I reckon with her help we got it pretty good in the end.

JD: That was Richard Adams speaking about his book Traveller with Peter Gzowski back in 1988. Mr. Adams, the author of Watership Down, died on Christmas Eve. He was 96 years old.

[Music]

Nova Scotia dead fish

Guest: Joan Comeau

JD: First, it was the herring. Just waves and waves of dead herring washing up on beaches around Digby, Nova Scotia. That had residents worried. The die-off has now grown. Over the last few days, hundreds of starfish, clams, crabs, and lobsters, have also been found dead on the beaches.
Joan Comeau lives in the area. She's been collecting samples of the dead sea-life. We reached her in Brighton, Nova Scotia.

HM: Joan Comeau, when did you first notice something was wrong on your beach?

JOAN COMEAU: November 17th.

HM: Why do you know it was that date?

JC: It’s ingrained in my brain. I was walking… we live right on the ocean and I walk the beach quite often. And I was just down there and saw dead herring, dead and dying herring, everywhere.

HM: What did you do?

JC: First thing I did was come in Google it. And I thought maybe it was just, they were dying because they had just finished spawning, and it wasn't the right time of year. So I phoned the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and let them know about it. And apparently they had had three calls before mine. And mine was sort of the one that they decided oh maybe we should check this out.

HM: Now what have you seen in the past few days?

JC: The past few days has been a totally different scenario. Someone else posted to Facebook. A bunch of dead creatures on one particular beach that’s very close to my house called Savary Park. So I went down to check it out and I can give you a list of what I saw?

HM: Yeah please.

JC: If you like. There was of course the dead herring which had been there for a while. But on top of that we had dead crab, dead lobster, starfish, clams, dead mussels, dead scallops, a little eel called the Sand Lanc, and baby wolf fish.

HM: Tell me what goes through your mind when you first see all those different creatures there?

JC: It was incredible. Like I said I've never seen nothing like it in my life. And I grew up on the West Coast and lived on the beach just about every weekend there. And like I said, I've never seen anything like it. And all the locals that I've spoken to that have lived here all their lives have never seen anything like it either.

HM: So there's got to be an awful lot of theorizing down there about what's happening. What kind of guesses are people making?

JC: Well you know I haven't heard too much about what the local population are thinking. I mean they're just scared and worried. But right now everything is just speculation right? I mean there's lot of theories. Even the people who I'm working with have theories, but nothing's been confirmed.

HM: When you say the people you're working with, is that Fisheries and Oceans? Who are you working with?

JC: No no no. I'm working with I guess I should call them independent.

HM: What are they suggesting it might be? They must have some thoughts on this.

JC: Well at first they thought, with the herring, they thought it might have been a parasite or some kind of virus. But as far as I know, that's basically been ruled out now. So now they're looking at other things. They could be low oxygen levels in the water or lack of plankton as a food source, or you know something like that.

HM: So you kind of scoffed when I mentioned Fisheries and Oceans. Have you have you reported this? Have you had an official response from authorities there?

JC: No I did like I said, I just reported it to them when I first found the dead fish on the beach and I never heard back from them.

HM: You haven't heard back at all. Is that do you think maybe that's because it's the holidays? Or this is since November.

JC: No, no. I don't know. Maybe they just don't do callbacks, who knows?

HM: There are a lot of people around there rely on the sea for their livelihood. Fishermen, the tourist industry as well. What are you hearing from them?

JC: Does it seem to be too much concern when it was just a herring. But now that the clams and the lobster and the scallops are starting to wash up dead, now there's real concern. Because it's their livelihood.

HM: Why is it so important for you to be working on this, trying to help figure this out.

JC: Well I love nature. I always have. And I have nine grandchildren, and I want them to grow up in a beautiful place, where, you know, where nothing is dying. [Sound: her voice cracking with emotion]. I'm sorry.

HM: You're really worried.

JC: I am. I mean before, even before this happened, I would walk the beach very regularly, just picking up the garbage off the beach, and now this is happening. It's sort of, I don’t know how are you say, put a cap on everything.

HM: Look, Ms. Comeau, thank you for telling us about what you're doing there and about your concerns.

JC: You're very welcome. Thank you.

HM: OK. Bye for now.

JD: We reached Joan Comeau in Brighton, Nova Scotia.

Back To Top »

Part 2: Encore: AIH characters

JD: We are winding down another year here on As It Happens. And thus it is a time to look back, to take stock...and do some...math. So if you'll excuse me I'll get out the trusty As It Happens calculator.

[Sound: punching in numbers]

JD: Ok so 2016 sixteen was a leap year, so that means there were 366 days. Minus weekends, that’s 263. That means there we brought you 263episodes of As It Happens in 2016. But wait I'm not done yet.
In every one of those episodes we air probably an average of eight interviews. So that makes the grand total for the year: 2104 stories. Feel free to write in to correct my math, but holy crow, we talk to a lot of people.
But, there is one element we seek in every story: a character. When one of our producers say 'she's a character' – we know we're going to get an interview beyond a talking head. Over the next half-hour, we're going to revisit some of the most memorable characters we're spoken to in the last year. Here's a quick tour of some of those voices:

SOUNDCLIP

JOE FULLER: My wife walked in and she said “that’s not my grandson.” I said look, I'm going to take you right back to school right now.

JENNIFER YOUNGMAN: I put two rounds in my shot gun, and I see the drone. And it moved left, right, and a little bit up. And with that I blasted it to pieces.Well, I like to shoot and I like to kill. So when you cross the line, please stand still.

RALPH LETHBRIDGE: I said, I’d like to shave me beard and now I get some hard looks. Oh my darling, if you see me now, it’d give you a fright [Sound: Carol Off’s laughter]. Me woman she wouldn’t even sleep last night, she went to bed with me sister. Well I said that’s bad. [Sound: laughter]

EMILIAN SAVA: I took two snow blowers and they made a really huge snow penis. I think it's about 70 meters or something like that.

VOICE 1: When I found the cat, he was dead on the side of the road. And the face was beautiful. And I thought, wow that’s a real shame to leave him. So I’ve made handbags out of other cats, and then I thought, wooh, that’s like taking a friend out with you, kind of.

VOICE 2: The big slimy thing turned out to be a catfish. I did not know immediately that it was a catfish, or that it was a fish, but my friend who was with me, my girlfriend, saw that I had been thrown to the ground, and also bounced off of her, and turned around and said “Oh my god, it’s a fish.”

Wrong Grandson

Guest: Joe Fuller

JD: One year of As It Happens. So many characters. Now, the first character we wanted to revisit is Joe Fuller. Joe Fuller is a grandpa in Cordova, South Carolina who accidentally took the wrong six-year-old home from his grandson's public school.

SOUNDCLIP

JOE FULLER: I went into the school. I walked over to the teacher and I said “look, I’m here to pick up my grandson, and this kid he walks up to me, and give me five and give me a hug. So evidently I figure that guy to be my grandson. So me and him walk on out to the car.

CAROL OFF: You get into the car… you got into the car with this other boy, with Tavon. Your wife was in the car too. Didn't she notice that it wasn't the right boy?

JF: No. You know, she didn't even turn around because she was holding the Happy Meal. She reached in the bag and gave him the Happy Meal and he took it, and he took it as I was backing out of the parking spot. By the time we got home, he went in the house and he sat in the living room. And when my wife walked in, she took a second look at him, and she said to me “Joe come here.” She said “Joe, that’s not my grandson.” And I came out and I asked him his name and that’s when he told me his name. I said look, I’m going to take him right back to school right now.

CO: At any point during the drive, or anything, did he say, did he talk, did he ask who you were? Why he was in this car? I mean aren't kids trained not to get into the cars of strangers?

JF: No. Because what I said to the kid I said “How was your day?” He said “Fine. I had a good day.” You know I didn't say anything else because the kid was eating.

CO: But when you were making the drive back to the school, did you ask him why he got into your car? Why or how this happened?

JF: No. The kid never seemed like he was upset or unhappy. The kid always felt, you know, happy.

CO: So Tavon's mother wasn't upset about what happened?

JF: No. Not at all. ‘Cause Tavon’s mother said to me, she said “Wow. You look like my father.” That's what she told me. She said she can understand why her son went along with me because I look like her father.

CO: Now Joe what about your own grandson? What about Quan? Did you find him?

JF: Yeah. When I brought the kid back, then they had called him. He came up to the office and he didn’t know nothing about this at first.

CO: So you got Quan in the car and did you take him for a happy meal?

JF: Yes. Yes. He usually expects this from me so I went and bought two Happy Meals.

JD: From July, that was Joe Fuller in Cordova, South Carolina. He spoke to Carol after he accidentally picked up the wrong six-year old from his grandson's school.

Drone shooter

Guest: Jennifer Youngman

Now, we're going to move just one state North, to Fauquier County, Virginia, where we found another character... Jennifer Youngman, who told guest-host Dave Seglins about aiming her shotgun, and pulling the trigger after spotting a drone hovering over her property.

SOUNDCLIP

JENNIFER YOUNGMAN: I was sitting on my front porch cleaning my shotgun and two men pulled over. I have a lane by my house. Road frontage of the Blue Ridge Mountains. And I was cleaning my shotgun of my 410, because I shoot with the ladies group on Wednesday evenings.

DAVE SEGLINS: You just happened to be cleaning your shotgun?

JY: Well it was after church and it was quiet and I needed a little downtime because I was on Ritalin for eight years as a kid, and I have a whole lot of energy, so I need to sit down and do something and not be running around like a ferret.

DS: So you see someone pull up the lane?

JY: No, he pulled over in the lay by and I thought it was somebody talking on the phone. Going on a picnic, take pictures with their photo telescopic lenses of the cattle, whatever. So I’m minding my business, going away, and every now and then, I throw an eye down, an ok, a card table sets up, they're going to picnic or take pictures. I go about cleaning my shotgun, set it down. I'm working on my 410. The next thing I hear is ‘Zzzzzz’ going down through the fields and the cattle scatter. Well that made me angry.

DS: What’s “Zzzzzz?”

JY: The drone. The drone makes a little Zzzzzz noise, OK? It’s going down through the valley there and it buzzes the cattle. I put two rounds in my shotgun and commence cleaning my 410. About four or six minutes later it comes back towards me and I set up on a hill. The wind picks up. Maybe they didn't have total command of their instruments there and of the drone, and it came over the trees that lined my road here, and my property. And hesitated, and it moved left, right, and a little bit up. And with that I blasted it to pieces.

DS: You blasted it to pieces?

JY: I shot it and it went to pieces.

DS: What made you want to pull the trigger?

JY: Well I like to shoot and I like to kill. So when you cross the line please stand still. They were trespassing in my airspace. They had harassed the cattle.

DS: Why not take a more diplomatic approach and maybe just ask them to leave?

JY: Because they'd been harassing them and I'd been robbed, and they'd harass the cattle, and you know I thought this would get the message across.

DS: Well that's quite a message.

JY: Yeah exactly. So we were on the same page.

DS: Do you have any regrets for blasting this thing out of the sky?

JY: Well I had a flat… two flat tires on my lawn tractor since then. But that's those are my only regrets.

DS: You're a bit of a celebrity now.

JY: Well, I would prefer to think that I had a little talent somewhere, but at 65 years of age, I don't think that's going to be discovered.

DS: What did the cows make of all this?

JY: Well I think they went back to eating. But I don't think it's a very nice thing to do to cattle.

JD: From last August, that was Jennifer Youngman in Fauquier County, Virginia.

[Music]

40 year beard shave

Guest: Ralph “Boonie” Lethbridge

JD: The next character is one of our favorites of the year: Ralph Lethbridge, better known in Newfoundland as “Boonie.” We spoke to Boonie after he had shaved his beard for the first time in four decades. We reached him in Clarenville, Newfoundland.

SOUNDCLIP

CAROL OFF: Hello Boonie.

RALPH LETHBRIDGE: Hello. How are you?

CO: How are you doing?

RL: Good. I just went around all day, picked up some more money. Jeez, I'm tired now.

CO: And so what does it feel to be beardless today?

RL: Oh my lord, it feels a little bit lighter, eh? I can move faster. That’s the goal.

CO: When you got shaved for the first time, you saw your mug without the beard on for after all those years, what did you think? Your first impression.

RL: When I got home last night, I went and washed my face and said oh my jeez, I look like a hundred years old. Holy Jeez. I got a fright.

CO: So do you like the look?

RL: Well only from my two blue eyes, me two front teeth.

CO: So it's a pretty nice looking face then?

RL: No, it’s not, my darling at all. I was never pretty, I was never nobody’s doll.

[Sound: Female voice in background, unintelligible]

CO: What, is that your wife speaking in the background?

RL: Yeah.

CO: What is she saying?

RL: She said you are. Something wrong with her after 50 years.

CO: Had she ever seen you without that beard?

RL: Oh back when we got married. Almost 50 years now June. [Unintelligible].

CO: OK. So you were clean shaven when you married?

RL: Yes my darling.

CO: And she liked that, did she?

RL: Well yes, she went crazy over me. [Sound: Lethbridge’s wife disagrees from afar “No.”] Something wrong with her. [Sound: Laughs].

CO: She sounds like she's agreeing with that wholeheartedly.

RL: Oh yes she is. She’s a darling.

CO: And how much did you raise? How much money?

RL: Well right now, we're 51,000 in the stadium, and you know a lot has come in, now I saw it’s over 60 the way things are going now.

CO: Wow. And that's all from just shaving your beard off?

RL: Just for an old damn bit of hair, my darling.

CO: Who would have thought that was worth $60,000?

RL: I never thought. I only asked for five. And if we didn’t meet the five, I was going to get… we were going to get into overdraft matched to five.

CO: I guess everyone wanted to see you without a beard.

RL: Well that's true too. 90 percent of people around the bay have been climbed over to see me with a beard off. And now I get some hard looks. Oh my darling, if you see me now, it’d give you a fright. Me woman wouldn’t even sleep with me last night. She went to bed with me sister. Well I said, that’s bad. [Sound: Laughter] Oh my.

CO: Boonie, well are you going to grow it back?

RL: My darling, it’s spouting out now like a weed.

CO: Now did… when you cut off this beard, did you find anything in there that you were missing?

RL: Them little screws, they bought in Newfoundland. I think they found a little nest there. But they were all dead anyway.

CO: And all the toast crumbs, and all the things that been in there for years and years, all gone.

RL: Oh yes, all them old weeds and [unintelligible] in the woods and everything. Oh my god, darling. I look like a real new man.

JD: That was Ralph "Boonie" Lethbridge of Clarenville, Newfoundland, speaking to Carol last January.

Ice cream truck wars

Guest: Ricky Cruz

JD: We're spending this special holiday edition of As It Happens revisiting some of our favourite characters of the last year: guests who brought their stories to life on the radio. One such guest was Ricky Cruz. Mr. Cruz drives a Mr. Softee ice cream truck, and he told Carol about the ice cream truck turf wars being waged in New York City.

SOUNDCLIP

RICKY CRUZ: The first day was crucial. The first day, we got to, we got to one of his schools and there was, there was somebody else. It wasn’t another business, but he just had his own truck. There was a verbal altercation. Not like a physical altercation but like a verbal argument going on between them. But that was the first day actually. I actually didn't see how it was the first day and I knew that it wasn't an easy job.

CAROL OFF: You hear about this with drug dealers, that they have to hold on to their corner. Did you think it would be like that with ice cream you're selling the kids?

RC: I didn't think it would be like that. But as… when I think about it, as a kid, they always want ice cream. Everytime we see the truck or hear the truck. And now I see, it's like selling drugs because you're fighting for turf, you're fighting for a block, for a school, or for this corner or… and it's not only you’re fighting against ice cream, other ice cream trucks. You're fighting against people that selling hot dogs, pretzels, halal food, and other things.

CO: What are the stories you’ve heard?

RC: Well I've heard a couple of times, like people getting ran down by the trucks. They might try to slash their tire or dent their truck up. Try to just mess up your truck to try to make it a little off, you know just to mess with the customers, to try to threaten you or put fear in your heart. But that doesn't that doesn't go with me.

CO: One guy says that every ice cream truck has a baseball bat in it.

RC: Can I just keep it real with you guys? Like it’s just for defense. Like we keep a machete, we don’t keep a bat. And that’s for real. What can I say? This is my truck. It’s only for offense because we’re around a lot of money, and like there's a lot of threats from the New York Ice Cream and you never know, especially that… after my interview with New York Times and all of that, and they're seeing that, they're probably like oh, this guy, I'm a target.

CO: Ricky, be careful out there. The streets are mean.

RC: Well like I said, whatever is going to happen is going to happen. Like I can't… I can't. All I could do is just serve ice cream for the kids and make them happy. And I believe nothing’s going to happen to me because I'm not, I'm not doing anything negative in order to get negative back. I'm doing positive. I'm I'm trying…. I'm trying to make everyone else happy. Because really, I'm working seven days a week busting my… busting my butt working seven days a week just to make these kids happy and I'm trying to. That's all I'm trying to project out into this world.

CO: Well Ricky, be careful out there and–

RC: I definitely will. I definitely will. Thank you for your time. And can I give a shout out?

CO: OK.

RC: I want to give a shout out to my partner Mark-Angelo Rodriguez here. And I’d like to give a shout out to you guys for having me on the air. And New York Times and Andy Newman. And I’d like to give a shout-out to Drake. Because in my ice-cream truck, Drake… anytime we do parties… if you want to rent us, you can do that. Hit me up.

CO: OK we'll get, we'll get the message out. OK, Ricky, take care.

RC: OK thank you. Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

JD: That was Ricky Cruz, a Mr. Softee ice cream truck driver in Manhattan. Carol spoke to him in June.

Snow penis

Guest: Emilian Sava

A great character, we should specify, doesn't necessarily need to be bombastic. Sometimes, it is the wry approach to the ridiculous that can make an interview sing. Emilian Sava brought us just that. He drew a giant penis in the snow, in Gotenburg, Sweden:

SOUNDCLIP

EMILIAN SAVA: I took two snowblowers and I made a really huge snow penis not far from where I live. We were two guys, one colleague from work. So I took him in the morning. I told him, you know what, we just go out right now and do one big huge penis in the memory of the old one that we raised.

CAROL OFF: Just how big is your penis? I mean the penis you made?

ES: I think it's about 70 meters or something like that.

CO: That's big.

ES: Yes it's really huge, it's big. It's big. And it's standing because the snow, it's… it's very cold here. We haven't had this kind of snow here in many years. So it's really good, it's really good conditions to do that. But I think people around the world they are thinking, and I think that they will do much huger penises than this one. This is only the start. I think there would be bigger one that is.

CO: All right let's get to your motivation because what happened. This is, as you say, a memorial in memory of the old snow penis.

ES: Yes the old snow penis. It was, I was at work and I read in the newspaper that someone draw a penis in the snow, in the channel, in the city, in the middle of the city. And the maintenance people that they couldn't remove that penis from the channel. And it was too risky for them to go out and removed that. So they write about it in the newspaper, and I just laugh at them because there is always a possibility to do something about it. So I just called my colleague and I told him “You know what? There is a huge penis in the channel, and do you want to go with me to remove this penis?” “Yes,” he said, “of course we remove it.”

CO: Tell us about the complaints you got on Facebook after you removed that penis.

ES: Yeah after we removed the penis, we got a lot of complaining because it shouldn't be removed. It was like a free art. It's, you know, no one should borrow but are about removing this. Especially when it's done in snow and it's not… it with melt away anyway. And you know when I got home, and I saw this this community, I joined them and I read everything they there was writing there. And I started to feel sorry about them because they really missed their penis. And in the middle of the night, I wake up, I couldn't sleep, it was really hard for me to sleep. And I went to the computer and I write to them, that you know guys, I'm really sorry that I deleted your penis from… which I did. And I promise you guys that tomorrow I will do something about it. And I called my colleague, you know, and I told him, you know what, we go out and we do a really big huge penis somewhere.

JD: We spoke to Emilian Sava about the giant penis he made in the snow back in January. And that wraps up some of our favourite voices from 2016. Thanks for listening.

Back To Top »

Part 3: As It Happened: Rights Episode

JD: During the holiday season, we're bringing you some of the best stories that we ever ever aired on the program. We will be digging into the As It Happens archives, to bring you some of the best stories from our past – through Encore presentations of As It Happened: The Archive Edition. And now, here's tonight's Encore Presentation of "As It Happened."

[Music: Theme]

JD: Hey there. I'm Jeff Douglas and this is As It Happened: The Archive Edition, bringing you the very best from 48 years worth of As It Happens archives. This week's theme: rights. We're going to hear from one half of the Danish same sex couple who were the first in the world to enter into a legal partnership.

SOUNDCLIP

Hey have to hope they can get the same as us if we hide in our fight.

We will interview a share of an Iowa where people who are legally blind have the right to obtain gun permits.

SOUNDCLIP

Visually impaired people are just that. They're not mentally impaired.

And we will hear from one of the coaches of an all-female minor league baseball team that played in a league against men.

SOUNDCLIP

You've got some women here today that could be playing A-baseball, no doubt about it.

JD: As it Happened: The Archive Edition, or radio that wishes it could throw ‘like a girl.’

[Music]

Blind Gun Permits

Guest: Warren Wethington

JD: One of the more divisive of rights issues in the United States is the right to bear arms. Gun laws continue to change, generally around open carry permits. And in Iowa, permits to carry a gun in public. Now extend to people who are legally blind. Warren Wethington is the sheriff of Cedar County, Iowa. He has been teaching his visually impaired daughter Bethany to shoot a gun for years. Carol spoke with Sheriff Wethington in September of 2013.

SOUNDCLIP

CAROL OFF: Sheriff Wethington, do you want your daughter to be able to carry a gun?

WARREN WETHINGTON: I want her to be able to make the decision for herself.

CO: How much vision does she have?

WW: Her left eye, she can see some motion. Her right eye, her good eye, it's 23/50. So she's legally blind in Iowa.

CO: Would she be able to drive?

WW: No.

CO: She would not be able to get a driver's permit.

WW: No.

CO: Can she get a permit to carry a gun?

WW: When she turns 21 she'll be able to. Yes.

CO: How is it there's no restrictions on her being able to get that permit?

WW: Well, driving a car and handling a firearm are two different things. I could be wrong, but I can't think of any possible way for somebody to drive a car when they're legally blind safely, but a firearm can be used at ranges depending on whether you're totally blind or just have visual impairment. I have a permit to carry and if I'm in a totally dark room, I'm blind. The only difference between a blind person and myself is I have seconds to adjust to being blind. They've been blind all their life and know how to deal with it.

CO: But isn't the ability to see what you're shooting at an important part of using a weapon?

WW: I don't expect a totally blind or legally blind person to engage targets 25 yards away. But if a totally blind person has someone attacking them, physically knock them to the ground, and start strangling them, stabbing them with a knife, you're within arm's reach. There's absolutely no reason why even a completely blind person can't be taught to draw a weapon. Rotate it up into the midsection of the assailant and fire around him.

CO: Is that one of the reasons why you would like your daughter to be able to carry a weapon? Because… for self-defence?

WW: I do. And also, you and I, as sighted persons, we have the opportunity, whenever we want to go somewhere, we can jump in a car, roll the windows, lock the doors, and go wherever we need to go. Visually impaired people don't have that. They have to walk everywhere they go. Sighted people can pick up on situations before they happen. You know, I'm sure if you are walking down the sidewalk and you see a white van with two males in it and the slider door on the side is open a couple inches, you would probably think there's probably someplace better for me to be than right here. I'm going to go to the other side of the street or I'm just not going to walk down that street. A person with visual impairment, you know, they can't see it. And there's a possibility they're going to walk right into something that a sighted person would go around.

CO: Have you ever issued a gun permit to someone who is blind?

WW: I don't know. I don't think so but it's not a safety issue. Visually impaired people are just that. They're not mentally impaired. They… these people are U.S. citizens just like anybody else. You know they're entitled to the same and no more constitutional protection as everybody else.

CO: Sheriff Weddington, thank you for speaking with us.

WW: No problem. Thanks for having me.

JD: From 2013 that was my regular co-host Carol Off speaking with Warren Wethington, the sheriff of Cedar County Iowa.

[Music]

Still ahead on “As It Happened: The Rights Episode.” We will hear an interview with civil rights lawyer Chuck Morgan. In 1963, Mr. Morgan received death threats and was driven out of the state of Alabama after speaking out against the firebombing of a Birmingham church that killed four young black girls. That's coming up on As It Happened: The Archive Edition.

[Music]

First same-sex marriage

Guest: Eigil Axgil

On October the 1st 1989, Axel and Eigil Axgil said “I do.” And in doing so, they made history as the first same sex couple in the world to enter into a legal partnership. The world's first gay union took place in Copenhagen, and though it wasn't legally referred to as a marriage it came with all the legal and fiscal obligations of, well, marriage. Former as it happens host Michael Enright spoke with Eigil Axgil, the day after the ceremony in 1989.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Eigil, can you tell me about the ceremony.

EIGIL AXGIL: The ceremony. We was on the Mayor house, City Hall. And there the mayor was speaking to us and there he asked us if we want to live together the whole life and be good to each other. And we say yes to that.

ME: Right.

EA: Yes. But it was very exciting yesterdaybecause there was so many journalists and photographs. I think more than hundreds, from all over the world.

ME: It was a very big day.

EA: A very very big day it was yes.

ME: You and Axel have lived together for some time haven't you?

EA: Yes. We have lived together for 40 years.

ME: 40 years?

EA: 40 years, yes.

ME: How does this… how does the legal ceremony change your life? Change things for the two of you?

EA: No, for us two it will not change because we have lived as a couple in 40 years. But it is very important for all other gays and lesbians in all other countries. They can see, they can hope they can get the same as us if we try enough for it.

ME: But this wasn't a religious ceremony was it? The Lutheran Church still doesn't allow it.

EA: No it was not. And it is not possible at the moment to do it in the church. We think it will come in short time. The bishop, are speaking much about it. Some say yes we can… it means we can do it. But other people here in Denmark say no no no no no no. That’s not clear until now.

ME: Well now do you each keep your own names, or do you have just one name now.

EA: We have one name now. We have had the same name in since ‘56. In ’56 we could not be married. And at that time, we only had one way to tell all people we was together and we want to stay together. And that was we was buying the same name. And therefore we make our own name. Ax from Axel and Gil from Eigil. And therefore we both have the surname Axgil.

ME: Axgil.

EA: Yes. That was our surname.

ME: I understand. Yes. All right. When you decided to go ahead and be married in the ceremony…

EA: Yes?

ME: Who suggested it? Who proposed it? Was it you or Axel?

EA: We both want to do it at the same moment. The law was statement in the senate, we was saying, we will make it possible. And it was the 1^st of October.

ME: Did you ever think that you would see this kind of thing in Denmark?

EA: No, you see my friend Axel, has started the gay organization in Denmark in 1948. And at that time he was not thinking it would be possible. We was hoping, but not believe it at that time.

ME: Well congratulations Eigil.

EA: Thank you very much.

ME: Good night.

EA: Good night.

JD: From October of 1989 that was Eigil Axgil, speaking with former As It Happens host Michel Enright. Eigil and Axel Axgil were the first sam-sex couple in the world to enter into a legal partnership. Same-sex marriage was not fully legalized in Denmark until 2012. We’ve posted the audio of that interview, as well as some photographs of Aigle and Axel's big day on our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

JD: We're listening to the Rights episode of As it Happened: The Archive Edition on CBC Radio One.

Councilman Name Drop

We may not have the legal right to insist that a newspaper not use our names, but do we not have the moral right? No. But shouldn't we have that right? Well on that tricky question, opinions are divided on the one hand, a councilman in Frederick County, Maryland believes we should, and also that he does. Everyone else believes we shouldn't. So there is a debate, anyway. In January of 2015 the councilman directly addressed a reporter with the Frederick News Post: “Use my name again unauthorized,” he threatened “and you'll be paying for an attorney. Your rights stop where mine start.”
Now there are those naysayers out there who say that every word of that argument is ludicrous, uninformed hogwash including the word ‘and’ but we, we have chosen to respect his strong conviction that no one gets to use his name, unless we would have placed a call to him to request authorization.
But then when someone asked who we were trying to reach, we wouldn't have been able to say, would we? The Frederick News Post however, is showing flagrant disrespect for that anonymous councilman's clearly expressed wishes, in an editorial entitled “Kirby Delauter Kirby Delauter Kirby Delauter.” The paper's editorial board writes “Knowing councilman Kirby Delauter as we do, we weren't surprised that he threatened the Frederick News Post with a lawsuit because we had, he says, and we're not making this up, “been putting Kirby Delauter’s name in the paper without Kirby Delauter authorization. Attorneys would be called, Kirby Delauter said. In fact we spent quite some time laughing about it. Kirby Delauter, an elected official, Kirby Delauter, a public figure. Surely Kirby Delauter can’t be serious. Kirby Delauter’s making a joke right?”
The editorial consists of 13 paragraphs, and when you put together the first letters of each paragraph, you get the councilman's name. Which, as I said, we have chosen to withhold.

[Music]

Aboriginal Children welfare ruling

Guest: Cindy Blackstock

JD: It was a bitter fight over the welfare of Indigenous children that lasted nearly a decade. And in January of 2016, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruled that the federal government does discriminate against First Nations children living on reserves.
Cindy Blackstock is the executive director of the First Nations child and family caring society, and along with the Assembly of First Nations, she led the battle to end that discrimination. She spoke with Carol from her office in Ottawa.

SOUNDCLIP

CAROL OFF: Ms. Blackstock, when you put this before the tribunal in 2007, was there any particular case, was there anything that you had seen or learned that sparked this for you?

CINDY BLACKSTOCK: Well it goes back even further than that. I was a child protection worker off-reserve in North Vancouver. And then I went to work on-reserve. And this is just across the street in a metropolitan area. And I was so shocked at the lack of services, particularly for children in homes. These children were higher needs because of the residential schools. Things that I just took for granted off-reserve weren't funded. Just basic things. And I found myself as a social worker taking on all kinds of jobs, fundraising, for raffles to get children medical equipment. And so that's what started it.
And then when we worked with the federal government for ten years before we filed it. Documenting the inequalities, but more importantly, coming up with solutions they agreed with, that could really help these kids, and they ignored it. So finally, after seeing all these multiple harms for children, children being removed from their families unnecessarily, children being denied basic medical services and cultural services, I just felt that we had to take them to court. And what followed was really nine very long years where the government tried to put legal technicalities before the best interests of children.

CO: We're talking about one 163,000 children that you launched this case on behalf of. What are some of the other numbers? What is the case that you made for how children, these Indigenous children, are discriminated against.

CB: Right. What some of your listeners may not know is that the federal government requires First Nations to use provincial child welfare education health laws on reserve, but the federal government funds it. Whereas for everybody else, the provinces and territories fund it. And the federal government has known since 2000 that it underfunds child welfare on reserve by about 22 percent, and that has grown by a more recent estimate in 2009 to 34 percent. And the consequence of that is that First Nations children are 12 times more likely to go into foster care. And one of the documents that was filed at the tribunal takes my breath away. It counts in numbers and nights that First Nations children have been in foster care. And that’s the way kids think of it right. They think about like numbers and nights until I see my dad. And if you add up all the numbers and nights that kids spent in foster care, first nations on reserve, it's over 66 million nights. So that tells you why we can't wait.
These children are growing up and some of them are grown up during the course of this case, and all we want to do is give them a fair chance to grow up with their families.

CO: How does this compare with the story of the residential schools and the children who were taken from their homes. Is it comparable in any respect?

CB: Yes it is. And in fact the tribunal draws that direct link. And I was just sharing… you know, I've been honored to attend, as many of us have, the Truth and Reconciliation where we hear the survivors’ firsthand stories about what it was like to be separated from their families, what it was like to not grow up with their culture, what it was like to lose their identities. And I hear those same stories from youth in care today. And it just seems to me that you know, if we're really what we're talking about here Carol is giving these children the same opportunities as other children, but in ways that honor their culture. And that doesn't seem like a big ask to me.
And the sad thing is the government has really used racial discrimination against these kids as a fiscal restraint policy, but now it's a chance for them to set it right and I hope the Prime Minister.

CO: You used the phrase “racial discrimination.” That is exactly what the tribunal has called this.

CB: That's exactly what the tribunals found. They found that these children receive less because of their race and national ethnic origin.

CO: What does it mean to you to have accomplished this?

CB: If you have the privilege of work in your life of working with people, and working particularly with children. And being a part of a group that maybe sets things, right maybe gets that next generation a little bit more light, then that's a life well lived. And I feel it's been an absolute blessing to do this, but I am not giving up until the children see change on the ground.

CO: All right we'll be watching too. Ms. Blackstock, thank you.

CB: Thank you Carol. Bye.

JD: Cindy Blackstock is the executive director of the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society. She spoke with Carol in January of 2016 on the day the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruled that the federal government discriminates against First Nations children living on reserves.

[Music]

Birmingham Church Firebombing charge

Guest: Chuck Morgan

The 1963 firebombing of a church in Birmingham, Alabamam helped galvanize the civil rights movement in the United States. Four young black girls were killed in that bombing but authorities failed to convict anyone in the case until 14 years later, when they finally charged one man and promised more people would be charged.
Chuck Morgan was a young civil rights lawyer in Birmingham at the time of the bombing. And on the day after the girls were killed, he delivered an impassioned speech that denounced the criminals responsible. It marked a turning point, and it electrified the nation. But eventually, it also forced him to leave Birmingham after he received a series of racist threats.
Mr. Morgan spoke with former As It Happens host Barbara Frum in 1977, on the day the first charges in the case were laid.

SOUNDCLIP

BARBARA FRUM: I have a hunch this arrest has brought back a lot of bad memories for you.

CHUCK MORGAN: A lot of bad and some good about the city and the place. But as far as the dismal day which was September 15^th, as I recall it, 1963, that was a sad and horrible day.

BF: Did you think anything would ever be done on this case?

CM: I had little doubt that, at that time, and have had little doubt since then, that both the FBI and state authorities and officials, and others in the community and outside the community could have had information that could have led to arrest.

BF: You're leaving of Birmingham was connected to this case too, wasn’t it.

CM: Well, it was connected to a speech I made the following day. I've been in civil rights practice there for a number of years. But the event itself, I mean it was it was such a horrible thing. Four little girls in church, and then that afternoon there were three more people as I recall, that were killed someplace in the state. And it was just such a wrenching kind of a thing. It was just, you know, there was no way to get lower than that as far as they–

BF: Even though bombings weren't that rare in Alabama?

CM: Oh and not that rare in Birmingham. That had scores of them and they were unsolved. That began in the 40s. Alabama, Birmingham had a tradition of labor violence, of course, that went on before the Second World War. And arising out of that tradition, the Civil Rights Movement evoked far less violence than existed then. But that tradition was there. And when the civil rights movement began and as it focused on Birmingham, some of the more violent events in the era of the nation's history appeared right there.

BF: You use the word “unsolved.” Was it your feeling that they were unsolved deliberately? How can you not solve so many bombings?

CM: Well I … you know the speech that I made the day following that bombing, went to the question of how anxious worried community asked who did it? Who threw that bomb? And to me the Ku Klux as in many societies, the violent people in that society, at least the organized violent people, are ordinarily spokesmen for, they speak with violence rather than the words and sanctions of society itself. And that's sort of a shock troopers of the more respectable community.

BF: But let me understand it. You’re suggesting that there is some hypocrisy in decrying the acts, and yet living with a climate that would allow those things to happen.

CM: Sure. Crimes are usually solved when people want them solved. And in those circumstances, society was imbalanced. Blacks were not registered. At the time of the church bombing, the ordinances were still on the books I suppose. They weren't repealed until after that, I don't believe. Which even present people from playing checkers together of different races. Of fishing in the same public lake even, people were arrested for. They couldn’t go in the same public parks. They couldn't do any number of the things that people look at today and see in other countries but don't conceive of on this continent.

BF: Do you ever look up the textbooks to see your speech reprinted?

CM: Sure.

BF: Does it move you still when you read it?

CM: Well I reread it not too long ago and I was right then.

BF: And can you quote from it? To this day?

CM: Pretty closely. I don't have a book here. But it started off something like… who threw that bomb, an anxious worried community asked? And the answer really is rather simple. We all did it. And then it goes forward and it cites the specifics of the white lawyer who doesn’t do this or that or the crude oaf who tell the racial stories at parties. And then it goes all the way through and something to the effect of ‘What's it like living in Birmingham? No one ever has and no one will until the city reaches an accord with the constitution. Birmingham is not a dying city, it is dead.’ And that's the way it ended. But it was it was not what you termed well received.

BF: Well you're vindicated in a way today.

CM: I don't know about vindication. I just… it seemed to me a simple then, and it seems to be simple now. The central message from Birmingham, Alabama is that any distinctions based upon race have to be bad. And those distinctions based upon race which discriminate against the lower class, a caste system always come the haunt the community in which it happens. The majority race as well as the minority race. And the message is the same every place.

BF: Thank you very much, Mr. Morgan.

CM: Thank you. Bye bye.

JD: That was late As It Happens host Barbara Frum speaking with civil rights lawyer Chuck Morgan in 1977. Three members of the Ku Klux Klan were eventually convicted in the deaths of the four girls who were killed in the 1963 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham Alabama.

[Music]

Professional Female Baseball League

Guest: Shereen Sammonds

JD: Well they didn't have a league of their own, but they were the first professional all female baseball team since the All American Girls Professional Baseball League was formed during the Second World War. In 1993, the Colorado Silver Bullets joined the minor leagues and played against all male teams in the Northern League. Shereen Sammonds was the general manager of the bullets. She spoke with former As It Happens host Michael Enright when the team held its first tryouts in December of 1993.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Now why a woman's team in the first place? Why set it all up?

SHEREEN SAMMONDS: Well the idea behind this is to afford women the opportunity to play professional baseball. And we'd like to start you know women to make it a little bit easier for them to play against, you know, to be on a team with women. But to play men, you know, to be able for baseball scouts around the country to see the talent of these women, and hopefully they'll be able to be picked up and get a contract and make it through the minor leagues just like any other man would be able to.

ME: Let me let me understand this. Are you going to play in a mixed league or is it going to be an all women's league?

SS: No it's one women's team playing against men.

ME: Wow.

SS: Yes.

ME: And they'll be judged by the same criteria Double-A, Triple-A whatever.

SS: Right.

ME: How do they feel about that? The women who are coming out. They're anxious about it?

SS: I think they're very anxious. We had some scouts here in Orlando this week that have worked through, you know, that I know to the Cubs since I've been involved with the Cubs organization. They came, in that walked right up to me and said “You've got some women here today could be playing A baseball. No doubt about it.” You know there’s some very talented women out there. And we're just, you know, actually Coor’s is affording them the opportunity to do this.

ME: All right. How much are they going to be paid?

SS: Well right now they’re looking at trying to you know compensate them a little more than an average minor league player because they leaving their careers. I mean we have a woman trying out here that’s a deputy district attorney out in California.

ME: Really.

SS: And she's going to give up her career and you know, and try to, you know the dream just like any other man, to play you know professional baseball. So we’re looking at, you know a number that they’ve thrown out is maybe $20,000 for the summer.

ME: Now this isn’t like a fantasy baseball league. They want to get out there and really play.

SS: This is… this is just like if they were in the minor leagues. They're going to be, you know, invited to spring training. If they make the team, they will play, you know a minimum of 30 games. We could play possibly, you know with the people that have called me to schedule games, we could play 100 games at this point.

ME: What about the other teams, the men's teams, how are they going to react to this?

SS: We’ll have to wait and see. We hope that since the Northern League has endorsed this and they’re, you know, once they get out on the on the field with them, you know gender will go away and they'll just be competitive, and realize you know, hey these are just good athletes and we just need to be competitive just like they are.

ME: I guess the movie has planted the idea in a lot of people's minds. Why not?

SS: It sure did and there's a gentleman that the president of the team his name is Bob Hope and he worked for the Braves for about 25 years. This is kind of a dream of his, and he's gotten the financial backing to put it all together. And today to be honest with you, you know Phil Niekro is our manager, and he invited his brother Joe out today. He lives in south Florida, and Joe is to entertaining the thought of being our pitching coach.

ME: So you've got both the Niekros out.

SS: Well one’s for sure and one’s thinking.

ME: Well all the best.

SS: Well thanks!

ME: And you’ve got the uniforms all picked out and everything?

SS: Well we’re working on that, we've had some prototypes, but they're real baseball uniforms. You know this is the real McCoy.

ME: Can't wait to see you play.

SS: Well we’ll be up in Canada.

ME: Good.

SS: Yes definitely.

ME: Oh terrific. All right well we'll stay in touch.

SS: OK.

ME: Bye now.

SS: Thank you. Bye bye.

JD: From 1993 that was former As It Happens host Michael Enright speaking with Shireen Sammonds. Ms. Sammonds was the general manager of the all female minor baseball team the Colorado Silver Bullets. The Bullets folded in 1997 after only four seasons when the Coor’s Brewing Company decided to end their sponsorship of the team.

[Music]

JD: That is it for this Encore presentation of As It Happened: The Archive Edition. You can also find all the episodes on our website cbc.ca/aih. Click on ‘As It Happened’ under the Features tab. Listen again or share them.
Our thanks, a very special thanks, to Keith Hart and the team at CBC Radio Archives. To our writer, Chris Howden, for help with the words. And of course, to our technician, Reynold Gonsalves. As It Happened: The Archive Edition, is produced by Laurie Allan. I'm Jeff Douglas, have a good night.

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Dec 28, 2016 episode transcript

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