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The AIH Transcript for November 16, 2016

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

CO: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JD: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music]

JD: Tonight:

CO: Some people just click. For example, Iowa State Representative Bobby Kaufmann, who was telling us about his new bill that would punish schools for coddling college students with silly hang-ups… and then just hung up.

JD: Holding pattern. A Canadian imam is among thousands of people detained in Turkey after the failed coup… but his wife insists her husband had nothing to do with it.

CO: Uncleanliness is next to godliness. An Indiana minister explains why she's not going to erase the hateful graffiti someone spray-painted on her church.

JD: Politically correct Allan Lichtman was one of very few people who predicted Donald Trump's big win. So tonight, we'll ask the history prof about his other prediction: that President Trump will be impeached.

CO: As experiments go, it's pretty middle-of-the-rodent. But it turns out we have much to learn from research in which scientists tickled rats… including how scientists would tickle rats, exactly, and why.

JD: And... all the president's memes. Well, actually, it's the Vice-President who's the star of a series of tweets about life in the pre-Trump White House. One of the meme's creators explains why Joe Biden is such an inspiration.

As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that guesses he bided his time… and now he's timing his Bidens.

Back To Top »

‘Suck it Up, Buttercup’ lawmaker hangs up on As It Happens

'Suck it Up, Buttercup' bill

Guest: Bobby Kaufmann

JEFF DOUGLAS: When Donald Trump won the U.S. election last week, college students across the country held rallies, marches, protests, and sit-ins. Campus counsellors offered meditation sessions. Professors cancelled classes, and delayed exams. To Bobby Kaufmann, this was nothing more than "post-election campus hysteria." Mr. Kaufmann is a Republican Iowa State Representative. And he plans to table a bill that would target that "hysteria." He has given his proposal a title: the "Suck It Up, Buttercup" bill. We reached Representative Kaufmann in Des Moines, Iowa.

CAROL OFF: Representative Kaufmann, why are you calling your proposed legislation, "Suck It Up, Buttercup?"

BOBBY KAUFMANN: Well, I believe the national conversation needs to take place with both sides coming to the table. Right now you've got the protestor side that want nothing to do with the people that won and you've got the people that won wanting nothing to do with the protestors. Let's be honest, and this isn't a criticism, this is more of an America thing, readership and interest from media really doesn't come from bland statements. So I've said something, that yes I understand it's something that people find a little bit offensive. But the impetus for my bill is that I believe that there are a lot of universities that are coddling a certain per cent of the population of college students. I'm not talking about mental services or victim services — none of that is anything I'm talking about. I'm talking about specific expenditures that are being spent by universities across this country specifically to coddle people that cannot handle the election results.

CO: Sorry — just a minute — who are the buttercups that need to suck it up?

BK: Well that would be people that are simply hysterical because an election was lost. That have never understood that life has winners and losers and in their adult life there are going to be times when they have wins and they have losses and there isn't always going to be someone there to coddle them.

CO: And where have you seen the coddling on campuses?

BK: I'm not ready to point fingers on specifics but I think we've all seen the reports across the entire country. We've seen them live on reports from reputable media sources. I have people reaching out to me from different states saying, hey, my kid, at this particular college today, the professor was actively discussing the possibility of bringing in a pony — a miniature pony so that people could use it to feel better about the election.

CO: Can I ask you where did that happen? Where was the discussion about bringing a pony to school?

BK: My job is to be finding this out. I'm not prepared to name names right now. I'm doing an investigation.

CO: I'm not asking you to name names — just where did it happen?

BK: Okay… [hangs up]

JEFF DOUGLAS: And that was it. That was all we got from Iowa State Representative Bobby Kaufmann, before he hung up. When we called him back, he said: "I don't speak to media outlets with an agenda."

Earlier today, Representative Kaufmann did another interview that went more smoothly… and ended less abruptly than ours did. Here he is, on Fox & Friends, speaking to Pete Hegseth.

SOUNDCLIP

BK: In life when your car breaks down, your kids get sick, or you have to take a second job up pay off your mortgage, you don't get to go to a cry zone, you don't get to pet a pony, you have to deal with it, which is why I came up with the bill and the idea inspired “Suck it up, Buttercup.”

PETE HEGSETH: Well I can't help, I don't mean to laugh. I mean you laugh, because you want to cry as they are doing in these cry rooms. There's another aspect of this bill though. You talked about protesting we've seen a lot of protesting that descends into rioting. What's the other aspect of it?

BK: What really inspired me to push this forward was there was an actual blockade of my constituents on Interstate 80 last week and that's dangerous. What if someone had been in an emergency and you had these kids, you had people acting like spoiled brat? Let's just call it what it is blocking Interstate 80. And I have no problem with dissent, I have no problem with protesting, I encourage protesting. I encourage dissent. But you don't have a constitutional right to impede on the constitutional rights of others. I have a big problem with that. So I'm proposing to increase the penalties, and giving law enforcement more tools to prevent that from happening in the future.

PH: Well Bobby, thank you so much for joining this morning. Good luck with the bill. I think you may have triggered some kids across the country who are watching this. They may need to retreat to a safe zone and go cry. But would say, “suck it up buttercup.” And good luck with your bill. I appreciate it.

BK: Thanks a lot.

JD: That was Iowa Representative Bobby Kaufmann, speaking to "Fox & Friends" this morning about his "Suck It Up, Buttercup" bill.

[Music: Build Me Up Buttercup / soul]

Quote/Unquote Ben Carson

JD: And now a bit of Quote/Unquote.

[Music]

JD: Since Donald Trump won the election, there's been talk that he would offer a key cabinet position to Dr. Ben Carson. Dr. Carson, of course, is a retired neurosurgeon who was himself a presidential candidate from May of 2015 to March of 2016. Over the course of that period, Dr. Carson criss-crossed the country talking to people and making media appearances. All to convince people he should be president. And it was a gruelling race. Dr. Carson was forced to defend himself against charges that he was too "nice" to be president, or too inexperienced in government to be president. And defend himself he did. Because he, and his many supporters, believed he could, and should, be president. Until he saw the writing on the wall, and dropped out in March. Now, the former presidential candidate says he will not accept a cabinet position in the Trump White House. He says he'll be more effective outside, fighting his usual noble fight against political correctness and a biased media. And a Carson spokesperson said he had other concerns. In an interview with the political website The Hill, Armstrong Williams said of the man who spent ten months and tens of millions of dollars campaigning to be president, "Dr. Carson feels he has no government experience, he's never run a federal agency. The last thing he would want to do was take a position that could cripple the presidency."

[Music]

Why an Indiana church plans to keep swastika, gay slur graffiti

Guest: Kelsey Hutto

[Music]

JD: On Sunday morning, parishioners at an Indiana church were horrified to discover their place of worship had been defaced. Someone had spray-painted a swastika on the side of the building, along with a pair of hateful messages. And after the initial shock, church leaders came to a surprising decision about the graffiti. Kelsey Hutto is the priest at St. David's Episcopal Church. We reached her in Beanblossom, Indiana. And a warning, there is strong language in this conversation.

CAROL OFF: Kelsey, what was your reaction when you first saw this graffiti on the walls of your church?

KELSEY HUTTO: When I first saw it I was a little disheartened. This is not something anything any of us expected. And so I was a bit shocked. My second reaction though, and the one that I'm using to comfort my congregation is that we were targeted for a reason and that reason is that we love and welcome anyone. And I think that is an OK thing to be targeted for.

CO: What does the graffiti say?

KH: There are three sets. The first one is a swastika. The other one is “Heil Trump,” and another one which says “fag church.”

CO: Have you ever had this before? Anything like this?

KH: No, we have been in this community for fifty nine years and we have never had anything like this.

CO: So just a bit more about why you think that your church, St. David's, was targeted.

KELSEY HUTTO: I believe we were targeted because we are an inclusive church. It doesn't matter who you are, what colour you are, where you come from or who you love. You are always welcome here at St. David's. I think because of that stance is one of the reasons we were targeted.

CAROL OFF: Beanblossom, Indiana is a small place, I presume?

KH: Very small, yes.

CO: So do you have any idea who might have done this?

KH: I don't. And at this moment in time, it doesn't sound like the sheriff's office knows either. I'm pretty confident it's not somebody in our direct circle, in terms of either members of the parish or friends of members of the parish. There's a part of me that believes that whoever is responsible for this maybe isn't being heard in their own surroundings, and that this was an action in which to feel heard.

CO: And so what do you think inspired this attack on your church?

KH: As much as I hate to admit it, I do believe that the election played a role in this. The amount of hatred that has kind of permeated our atmosphere in the nation, and the rhetoric that was used in the election to propel that, I think was a big part of it. It's not a secret that our congregation as a whole is fairly liberal and was disappointed with the election results.

CO: What have you decided to do about this graffiti?

KH: Believe it or not, we are going to leave it up until the end of November. We believe that symbols are what you make of them. We could look at this graffiti as hateful, and we could be angry or hurt, but we choose instead to look at it as a symbol of hope. If there's anybody in the surrounding area or in the nation that needs a safe haven, this graffiti on our walls marks us as a safe haven. It is what we believe in, that we are a safe church. So if anybody can hear that, I think it's a good reason to leave it up.

CO: What message do you think that sends to the person or people who did it?

KH: I hope that message is that love conquers all hate, and that if the perpetrator decides to come to St. David's tomorrow or on Sunday morning, they will be welcomed. They will be forgiven – they're already forgiven – and they will be loved as a child of God.

CO: How have people in your church responded to your decision that you're going to leave these messages – this swastika, "Heil Trump," a slur against gay people – that you're going to leave it there? How have they reacted?

KH: They have reacted quite well, actually. At first, I was a little nervous. In fact, at first, my inclination was actually to cover it, seeing how much hurt my congregation was experiencing as each one saw it. But we decided together that this is who we are, and we're not ashamed of it. And by covering it, it means that we're ashamed, and we're giving power to those who have done this act. And my congregation is behind me full force.

CO: You discovered this on your church on Sunday morning. What was the service like that day?

KH: The service was difficult but I was able to highlight the fact that just because our walls were defaced, nothing has changed on the inside. Just because black paint is on our walls it doesn't change our call as Christian. And I was able to change a few things in the service in terms of our liturgy that allowed my parishioners to kind of travel through their emotions during the service. And there was a moment in the service and I can remember it is as clear as day when we were doing a section on prayers for reconciliation and healing and not just reconciliation and healing for the perpetrators but also for ourselves and for the division that we as a whole in humanity have created between us and God. And there is this palpable shift in emotions and posture where you could tell that my congregation and my parishioners were like OK, we have accepted this. We're still going to continue to grieve. It's not something that you can get over in 30 minutes or an hour. We're still going to be grieving but we're going to use this as a force of good.

CO: Mother Kelsey, It's good to talk to you. Thank you.

KH: Thank you. I appreciate it.

JD: Mother Kelsey Hutto is the priest at St. David's Episcopal Church. We reached her in Beanblossom, Indiana.

[Music]

Q: Why did the scientist tickle the rat? A: It wasn't just for laughs

Guest: Shimpei Ishiyama

[Music]

JD: A pair of neuroscientists in Germany set out to answer a simple question and essential question: What happens when you tickle a rat? The answer was delightful. And it also gave them insight into how the human brain regulates mood. Their findings were published recently in the journal, Science. Shimpei Ishiyama is one of the study's authors. He's a neuroscientist at Humboldt University of Berlin.

Carol Off: Mr. Ishiyama, how do you go about tickling a rat?

Shimpei Ishiyama: Ticklishness is one of the most mysterious sensations in humans also. So even though ticklishness is so common in human culture, we don't know why we laugh when we are tickled. And why we can't tickle ourselves. There are so many mysteries. And, indeed, rats are also ticklish -- that means they do vocalize when they're tickled. So this special vocalization is indicating their positive emotions, such as happiness or joy. And so I got interested in what's going on in the brain, first of all when they are tickled.

CO: We have a bit of the sound that rats make when they are tickled. And so let's just have a listen to that.

[Sound: rats being tickled]

CO: What are you doing when the rats are making that sound?

SI: So I flip over the rat, and push them back on the floor. And I move my finger rapidly on their belly. So the belly is the most ticklish part of the rat, And actually their vocalization is ultrasound. So it's so high that we humans can't hear [it]. And so there's a special microphone which can capture ultrasound, and the computer just transposes the sound to the lower frequency, so that we can hear it.

CO: It sounds like it’s giggling.

SI: Yes, or some scientists call it "rats' laughter."

CO: Now there's a German word that you use in your research, freudensprung. What does it mean?

SI: It's like a common German word, which means we use human judgments when we are excited like “yeah!” We hop, we jump when we are happy. And that's what we saw in rats as well.

CO: And now are they. In what conditions are they most likely to enjoy being tickled? I'm sure and sometimes it must be must be scary for them to see someone coming at them…with a human hand coming toward them. So how do you get them in the mood?

SI: Yeah, it looks like maybe if you take a look at the video, it looks like it's rather like a firm shaking their body rather than tickling. So this is actually how they play with each other. So they actually play very hard. It's also called "rough and tumble play." Is… a technical scientific term of rat play.

CO: "Rough and tumble play" is a technical term?

SI: OK. Yes. And yes I also do tickle them so firmly… so kind of vigorously on their belly, and that's their way to make them laugh.

CO: Now you also discovered that, like humans, they will anticipate being tickled and they'll have the same response. Is that right?

SI: Yes. The new finding of my study is that we found a neural basis… the brain region which responds to tickling. So these neurons also respond to anticipatory tickling. So I just put my hand in front of them, and move my fingers as if I'm going to tickle them, and they already feel ticklish. And they start vocalizing, and they chase my hand really fast. So this we call "play behavior".

CO: Well, you see this in children, don't you? When you can come toward them as though you going to tickle them, and they'll burst into hysterical laughing about it.

SI: Right. That's what we saw also in rats.

CO: What does this tell you about tickling?

SI: So from these results, we got to know that tickling is pretty much related to play behaviour, because the neurons that are activated by tickling can be also activated by the play behaviour, in the same manner. So this is pretty important finding, because play behaviour is known to be very important for developing normal cognitive capacity… social-cognitive capacity. And so without that play… if you deprive play behaviour, for example, in rats, they become socially incapable when they're old.

CO: This would be true, I guess of all animals. And humans.

SI: Yes. And that's why we thought ticklishness is somehow the brain's trick to make us play more, or have fun more.

CO: Mr. Ishiyama, it's great to talk to you. Thank you.

SI: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye-bye.

SI: Bye.

JD: Shimpei Ishiyama is a neuroscientist at the Humboldt University of Berlin. He was in Berlin.

Back To Top »

Canadian imam: Turkey, Obama-Biden meme generator

CAROL OFF: Hello again, and welcome back. I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: And I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Part Two.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Coming up:

CO: He saw it coming -- but he's not looking forward to it. History professor Allan Lichtman predicted Donald Trump would win the election. And he predicted a catch: sometime before the end of his first term, President Trump will be impeached. The professor explains his prognostication.

JD: A beautiful poem -- no, don't do that. Some of you stopped listening. It really is a beautiful poem. We'll hear the winner of the 2016 CBC Poetry Prize… which tells a story you may not know in language you've never heard. Stay tuned.

[Music: Theme]

Canadian imam: Turkey

Guest: Rumeysa Hanci

JD: In July, Calgary imam Davud Hanci was in Turkey with his wife and children, visiting his dad. Then the attempted coup d’état occurred. And ever since, Mr. Hanci has been in a Turkish prison. He's one of tens of thousands of people who have been detained since the failed coup attempt.Rumeysa Hanci knows very little about why her husband was arrested beyond the fact that the Turkish authorities believe him to be affiliated with Fethullah Gulen, who is the man who was accused of plotting the coup. We reached Rumeysa Hanci in Toronto.

CO: Mrs. Hanci, when was the last time that you saw your husband?

RUMEYSA HANCI: I have seen him…. well he was detained on 23rd of July. Three days later I had seen him in the detain centre. Just less than a minute. It was the last time that I had seen him.

CO: Have you had any word from him, any communication?

RH: You know, just only I could say “how are you doing? And he said he's OK and he looked tired. That's you know that's all. After that you know like three days later we received a phone call from him. So it was two three minutes phone call, and after that I haven't talked to him. I haven't seen him.

CO: Was he able to tell you anything about what's going on and why he is being held.

RH: You know like, we were shocked like when authorities want to question my husband and we didn't expect anything like that. And after we came home from police station and on the media they made you know like a lie new, like about my husband. And he was being accused with the mastermind of the coup.

CO: And this is Fethullah Gulen. This is the man, the U.S. citizen, who has been accused by the Turkish government as having been behind this attempted coup d’état?

RH: Yeah they were claiming like that.

CO: So this is the first days, he went to the police station voluntarily to answer questions and then they didn't let him go. And so where is he now? What prison is he in?

RH: He was transferred to the prison in Kocaeli which is far from his home town. Around 800 to 1000 kilometers away.

CO: And what are the conditions there?

RH: He is [unintelligible].You know it was so hard to find a lawyer. And finally, we have found a lawyer. So we found out that he'd be kept in solitary confinement and we are not allowed to talk to him or visit him.

CO: And so have there been any charges? Has he been taken to court to plea or anything of that nature?

RH: Because of the state of emergency, it doesn't seem there's going to be court very soon. So we don't know how long it will take because last, the president was also looking to make it longer for the state of emergency.

CO: We know that when they, the time that your husband was arrested and since then, there have been tens of thousands of people arrested and accused of having been part of this coup d’état. And all kinds of professions in teaching and journalism and the arts and writing. And so he was caught up in that. Have they explained what is going to happen with all those people that your husband is now being held with?

RH: I don't know what's going to happen with all those. You know like, everyone is waiting for… I think their court or to hear something about their station.

CO: But they're saying they're even building or preparing new facilities to house all the people that they have arrested and put into prisons.

RH: Yeah unfortunately there are something like that, but I don't know about, because I had been living in Canada for 15 years. I have no connection with the political parties. So I don't know what's going to happen in detail?

CO: What was your husband David Hanci What was he doing in Canada? What's his profession?

RH: He was working as imam in the remand center for federal and provincial government in jail. Like he was counseling to inmates. And you know, as like religious counselor.

CO: A prison chaplain.

RH: Yes.

CO: How many children do you have?

RH: I have two boys. It's so hard for them because my husband was so, you know, caring father he was playing with them and he was going out with them. So on the weekend we were going for hiking, in the winter for gliding. And you know we were spending so much time as a family. So he was so caring father. So they miss him a lot. I had my parents and my sister and brother, we all trying to take care of them and helping them to go for activities to get over this station easier.

CO: And how are you able to support yourself without your husband's salary?

RH: It's, you know like, it's so hard for me. You know I'd say try to stay strong. And so I pray for him to come home. Financially I live with my parents and try to get help from them.

CO: And what are you hearing from the Canadian authorities? From Canadian government? Are they able to help you at all?

RH: So far it has been three and a half months. Unfortunately, Canadian government couldn't get any access to see my husband or talk to my husband. Hopefully they can get access very soon.

CO: And is your husband a Canadian citizen?

RH: Yes he's Canadian citizen and my two boys were born in Canada.

CO: So your husband is a Canadian citizen, and so do you think that Canada is doing enough to get your husband out of this Turkish prison?

RH: They tell that they are doing great. They are high level. They are trying to do all the things. I want to accept it, as you know that they're doing it.

CO: All right we'll leave it there. Mrs. Hanci, I hope you get good news very soon. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

RH: Hopefully. Thank you.

JD: We reached Rumeysa Hanci in Toronto. Her husband, Davud Hanci, has been detained in Turkey since the failed coup attempt this past July.

[Music]

From the Archives: Philando Castile

Guest: Bishop Bryant Kemp

JD: Philando Castile and his girlfriend, Diamond Reynolds, were driving in Minnesota this past summer when they were pulled over by police, for a broken tail light. Mr. Castile complied. And then he was shot dead. Immediately, Ms. Reynolds began filming a video that would be viewed by millions.

SOUNDCLIP

DIAMOND REYNOLDS: We got pulled over on Larpenteur…

JERONIMO YANEZ: [shouting] I told him not to reach for it. I told him to get his hand open.

DR: You told him to get his ID, sir, and his driver’s license. Oh my god, please don't tell me he's dead.

JD: The man yelling in that clip is Minnesota police officer Jeronimo Yanez. Today, he was charged with second-degree manslaughter and felony discharge of a firearm. After Philando Castile's death, we spoke to a friend of his. From July 2016, here's Bishop Bryant Kemp speaking with guest host Susan Bonner.

SUSAN BONNER: You've been with Philando’s family today, you've spent time with them. Can I ask you what they're telling you?

BBK: They're hurt. This is a good family. Mom was just distraught because you didn't take a child, you took her only son away from her. They want justice, but they also understand that justice might just include just us.

SB: What do you mean by that?

BBK: I mean that we might be the ones that have to come to grips with the fact that this police officer might get off, that might not be any justice for Philando’s life. We might have to continue to seek deeper investigation by ourselves.

SB: I understand that since the year 2000, at least 143 people in Minnesota have died after being shot or tazed or restrained by a police officer, and not a single officer has been charged to date in any of those deaths.

BBK: Not one.

SB: Do you think the death of your friend Philando Castile could change that?

BBK: I thought that in 2008, when my brother was killed. He was a deacon in my church, he was a father. Never had no run-ins with the law. But they tazed him and killed him. I thought that then but my heart says “pray.” My faith says “pray.” And I pray that this situation which Philando can be the nucleus that causes our police system to take a better look at, number one, who they're hiring. And number two, to do better reprimanding, than what they did. It is my prayer and my hope that this can change things.

SB: How hopeful are you that it will?

BBK: Because I'm a man of God and a preacher. I believe God can do all things. But because I also live in a real world, in a real society, my hope is very, very small.

JD: That was Bishop Bryant Kemp, speaking to guest host Susan Bonner in July, about the death of his friend, Philando Castile. Today, the Minnesota police officer who shot Mr. Castile was charged with manslaughter in the second degree. He faces a maximum sentence of ten years in prison.

[Music]

A Joe Biden memes guy on his post-election fame

Guest: Josh Billinson

JEFF DOUGLAS: Twitter can get ugly. We all know that. Never uglier, in fact, than over the past few weeks. And so it turns out now may be the perfect time for people to tweet out imaginary conversations between President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden. Imaginary conversations in which the VP suggests pranks they could play on the president-elect, Donald Trump. It's hard to tell exactly why these tweets work so well. But they do. In part because they depict the relationship we kind of all think the President and Vice President have. Or we wish they had.

Joshua Billinson is one of the creators of the meme. We reached Mr. Billinson in Washington D.C.

CAROL OFF: Josh, what inspired you to create these memes?

JOSH BILLINSON: I think it's been something that was out for a while before the election, with Joe Biden, that kind of persona. I think The Onion — the satirical newspaper — kind of crafted this image of [Joe Biden] as Uncle Joe for a couple years now. After the election, I was not feeling so hot. I thought I'd find a light-hearted way to poke some fun at it that wasn't too serious. I guess it just really struck a chord with a lot of people. They seem to appreciate it.

CO: So, I presume you were not feeling so good after the election because you didn't like the results.

JB: Yeah, that's one way to put it.

CO: So you have a couple of images that you play with that are really fun. You’ve got one of Barack Obama and Joe Biden sitting in I guess the Oval Office. Presiden Obama has his face in his hands and Joe is talking to him, and so you riff off that a lot. Why don’t you give us some examples of how you use that image?

JB: Well I think it's just, it's great because this administration is so transparent with… they had a White House photographer who would just dump photos on the internet for years, and it's all these candid moments. And just seeing all those, it's so easy to just imagine what they could have been saying and maybe what they really did say. And from there I guess poking fun at the idea that maybe they're upset about the election result too and Joe Biden might be trying to play some tricks. And from there it just took off.

CO: Give us some examples. There's one letter where, with Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden talking and Obama standing in the background and Joe says, “you know Hillary was telling me that when they were leaving the White House when Bush won the W's off the keyboards” and Obama says “Joe? Put them back.” And Joe Biden says, “I took the ‘T’s.’ They can only type ‘Rump.’

CO: Instead of Trump.

JB: Yeah. And there was another one where it’s Barack asking Joe Biden if he’d change all the toiletries in the White House for travel sized bottles. And Joe answer he's got tiny hands, Barack, I just wanted him to feel welcome here.

CO: And you've got a couple, a bunch of them you've got, including one where they're walking along some sort of passage together, some sort of hallway, and a series of them where Joe Biden is coming up with tricks they can play. Things they just really… like high school adolescent pranks. Can you describe some of those?

JB: Yeah, there's one with the picture where they're walking along and Joe says, “I hid a Kenyan passport in your desk just to mess with him.” And Barack says “Joe…” And “and I also left a prayer rug in your bedroom. That's really going to make him angry.”

CO: What is it about these two men that lends itself to this kind of meme, this kind of joke?

JB: I think they both just come off as very genuine and very personable. If you bumped into them on the street, they seem like they would be friendly people you could talk to. So, to imagine these people who have these very serious jobs instead acting like teenagers in the White House, I think it`s very appealing to people. Just the fact that it feels like a political joke, but it's not really. It's childish humour. It's apolitical. I've gotten responses from people on all sides of the political spectrum, people from all over the world, telling me that this is something they've been able to laugh about. And they really haven't found many things in the last few days to laugh about.

CO: Now, Barack Obama is leaving the White House with a lot of political capital. But Joe Biden. What is it about the Vice-President that has such an appeal. People do find him to be a kind of Uncle Joe character. What is it about him that you like?

JB: For me personally, I’ve always looked up to him. It’s over 40 years now he’s been in public service and there have been personal tragedies along the way. He had at the beginning, there was a car accident and his wife and one of his children passed away. And just recently one of his sons passed away after a battle with brain cancer. I think, he’s put so much out there to serve this country and he’s suffered as a result. He’s had to move past these tragedies to serve other people.

CO: Now, I understand one thing that you asked him to do — that he has not done yet — is to have ice cream with him.

JB: I have. Yes. I sent a letter a while ago, back in March, trying to see if it could maybe get to his desk. It didn't. I got a form letter back. But I'm hoping, with this new found thing, I can maybe push that through. I just want to say thanks to the guy. And there's a lot of hilarious pictures of Joe Biden eating ice cream on the internet too.

CO: Well, the fact that these memes have gone viral, as they say, and there's actually been stories about you doing this, do you think it has come to the attention of those folks in the White House?

JB: I'd like to think that he knows about it. If he doesn't, I think chances at least someone in his office has heard about it. It’s been picked up on so many news sources all over the world. I saw an article in German talking about my tweets. It has really just taken off everywhere. I have to imagine that he knows that this is happening. If he does, I'd love to come down there. It's a 20 minute, 15 minute, drive to the White House for me with traffic. I could get there. Get some ice cream.

CO: All right, we’ll leave it there Josh. Good to talk to you, thanks.

JB: Thank you, bye.

CO: Bye bye.

JD: Joshua Billinson is one of the creators of the Joe Biden/Barack Obama memes taking over Twitter in the wake of President-elect Donald Trump's win. We reached him in Washington D.C.

[Music]

Bonobo’s eyesight

JD: Could Simon call an . . . apple-thorn-log-ist? Um… Turns out that, just like us lemons, over lime, apples find their vision getting worker and... Um. Guys, no. I'm sorry, this print is too small. I need my Carol’s glasses, and… Okay, let me start again. Could someone call an "ape-thalmologist"? That was the line? For a story about eyesight and apes? Seriously? Anyhow, I'll keep going: Turns out that, just like us humans, over time, apes find their vision getting weaker and weaker. Although their problem isn't trying to read the clues in the cryptic crossword. It's trying to see tiny, writhing parasites. For a new study, researchers from Japan and Scotland went to the Democratic Republic of Congo. They took video of fourteen bonobos grooming each other which mostly means finding and disposing of lice. And they found the nit-picking technique depended on age: the younger the ape, the closer their eyes were to the fellow ape they were de-lousing. For example: a 24-year-old bonobo's eyes were a mere four inches (or about ten centimetres) from the bonobo he was searching for lice. A 45-year-old bonobo's eyes were a full sixteen inches away from the bonobo he was grooming. If you're picturing people in their sixties holding the newspaper at arms' length to read it, you're getting the picture. This is proof that bonobos experience age-related farsightedness. But it may also provide evidence that there's a meaning to life. Which is… Oh no, Carol’s glasses! Nuts! Well, now I know it's time for a song with a name I can't read. Although I do remember it's by Bonobo. Because I was talking about bonobos. So here's Bonobo.

[Music: Late Night Tales / Pop]

JD: From the compilation album "Late Night Tales," curated by Bonobo, that is Bonobo,with "Get Thy Bearings." You're listening to As It Happens on CBC Radio One, on Sirius XM, and on Public Radio International.

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Val d'Or complainants: Chief Assembly of First Nations Québec & Labrador, Election prediction professor, CBC poetry prize winner

Guest: Ghislain Picard

JD: Prosecutors in Quebec are not expected to release the results of the investigation into complaints of abuse by police in Val d'Or until Friday. But, as we go to air, there are widespread reports that none of the officers involved will be charged. Most of the complainants were Indigenous women and in a moment, we'll speak with the Chief of the Assembly of First Nations of Quebec and Labrador. First, though, here's Priscilla Papatie speaking to Radio Canada last year. She said officers drove her to a Walmart parking lot at 2 a.m. one winter morning.

SOUNDCLIP

[Priscilla Papatie speaking in French, translation below]

JD: That was Priscilla Papatie speaking to Radio Canada last year. And I’ll paraphrase what she said there: “He took my bag… there were two beers in it...he smashed them and then took my cell phone and put it in my bag with all the beer... He pushed me and I fell...they took my shoes and threw them in a snow bank and they left me there.” Ghislain Picard is the Chief of the Assembly of First Nations for Quebec and Labrador. We reached him earlier today in Montreal.

CAROL OFF: Chief Picard what do you say to women like Priscilla Papatie today?

GHISLAIN PICARD: Well, the best we can do is to encourage them to continue and take a stand and denounce whatever situations they are facing because, although the report to be made public on Friday speaks of 37 open files or cases, we know you know there are more than that. And the story of Priscilla is sadly all too familiar because we know it happened in Val d’Or we know it happens elsewhere in the country and there needs to be a stop to that. And I think the more leaders in the communities, their chiefs and councils, will take a stand on behalf of their women, I think, the more confidence these women will feel about you know moving forward and making denunciations. But yet the sad part in all of this is that you know we've been requesting and demanding that there be a public inquiry into this for the past 12 months and we have we have yet to get a proper response from Quebec. The government of Quebec has decided instead to hide behind the federal inquiry that's taking place on murdered the missing indigenous women and girls.

CO: This investigation was done by Montreal police. The idea was that if another police force investigated the Sûreté du Québec, it would be it would not have a bias. What do you make of that?

GP: Well that's why, what you're mentioning is exactly why people are you know somewhat in between in terms of opinion regarding the process because on the on the one hand they're not surprised of the outcome if the outcome is you know what's been said for the past 48 hours which is that no accusations will be brought forward. At the same time as you see yourself the police investigating police doesn't stand any ground in terms of being a transparent process. But yet this is what's been going on for the past 12 months. The report itself internally was presented back in the spring and then what six months later it's finally being made public. So there's certainly more you know more reason to be doubtful about you know the transparency of the process and so we're all going to wait for the details to be presented on Friday in Val d’Or. And then I guess make sense as to what the next steps should be.

CO: The thing is is that, it’s being pointed out many times to date there aren’t just a few complaints of abuse by police against indigenous women in Val d’Or. There have been dozens of complaints, and you say you believe there are even more than that?

GP: Oh well definitely. And to us the whole issue of the dysfunctional relationship between police and when it comes to you know our peoples in the communities and outside of our communities has been an issue of concern for many months many years even. And to us to finally have a report that will say that there were twenty, thirty seven open cases and at the end of the day no formal accusation, I think it is surprising to all. Not only us but many observers. And as I said you know 37 is only the tip of the iceberg because we understand there are many more cases where women are you know hesitant afraid to come forward and file a complaint. If the report concludes that there will be zero accusations, these women will never have had the courage to come forward after that.

CO: How difficult was it for the women who did come forward? Because it's a small community they have to face these officers afterwards. How difficult was it for them to actually do what they did?

GP: Well I took part in a meeting just a few weeks ago maybe five six weeks ago where the women that made the complaints in the program met amongst themselves and spoke of you know the challenges that they face and how hurt they are months after they became public. And it’s tough to be able to provide them the proper support. And it's our duty in the communities to have the proper resources to address those, to provide that support as well. So we're making a call to both governments Quebec and Canada, so that the communities get access to the proper resources in order to provide that support that is much needed, because you know, apart from that report, apart from the role of the police forces, we're talking about human beings and free peoples. And I think they need to be supported especially in light of the report that seems to I guess conclude that out of so many cases, no formal accusations will result.

CO: Are they afraid are those are those women afraid?

GP: Well we won't really know until we speak to them. But you know they've been carrying the load for the past year already and even before. To us it presents a great challenge, very important challenge for their leaders to be able to be there with them and accompany them and support them in the best way they can.

CO: We will leave it there. Chief Picard, thank you for speaking with us.

GP: Thank you very much.

JD: Ghislain Picard is the Chief of the Assembly of First Nations of Quebec and Labrador. We reached him in Montreal earlier today. After we recorded that interview, the independent auditor who oversaw the police investigation released her report. She describes a total of 38 allegations from 31 complainants, most of them indigenous women. And her conclusion is that while the criminal investigation was conducted fairly, much more needs to be done.

[Music]

Election prediction professor

Guest: Allan Lichtman

JD: Allan Lichtman is in the habit of being correct. Back in September, the American University professor told us that his history-based analysis of voter behaviour, told him that Donald Trump had a lock on the White House. The pollsters and pundits dismissed his prediction. But Professor Lichtman has nailed every Presidential election in the past 30 years… with the possible exception of one. So now, while those pollsters and pundits try to figure out how they got it so wrong, we wanted to ask Professor Lichtman about his second big prediction. We reached Allan Lichtman in Bethesda, Maryland.

CAROL OFF: Professor Lichtman how does it feel to get your Presidential predictions right more than anybody else when they all get it wrong?

ALLAN LICHTMAN: Well it feels good but I don't look at this personally. I look at this as a vindication of the way I approach predictions and a comeuppance to the polls. I approach predictions differently from anyone else. I don't look at polls. I don't look at the day to day or week to week events of the campaign. My predictions are based on an historical analysis of how elections for president actually work. I studied every election from 1860 to 1980, developed my system in 1981, and from that study discovered the 13 keys to the lighthouse, which establish the proposition that presidential elections are primarily judgments on the strength and performance of the party holding the White House.

CAROL OFF: When we talked to you in September, you did tell us that Donald Trump was likely to become the president and most people didn't believe you. But you were right. And but you also have another prediction that I like to ask you about. You predicted that Donald Trump could be impeached. Where does that come from?

AL: Well it doesn't come from my scientific system, it comes from my gut. But I have some reasons for it. Number one. One of my Lichtman rules of politics is that with politicians, what you see is what you get. They don't change. Like you know you marry someone, you expect to change them, it never works. And Donald Trump, throughout his career, has played fast and loose with the law. He ran an unregistered charity in New York. He had to stop fundraising. He used that charity to make an illegal campaign contribution. There is good evidence that he used that charity to settle personal business debts. There is good evidence that he broke the Cuban embargo when that was a serious crime. He faces a civil racketeering trial for Trump University. A dozen women have accused him of sexual assault. Let's not forget one of those or more of those women could sue him. And it was the civil lawsuit of Paula Jones against Bill Clinton on sexual harassment that opened the door to the impeachment of Bill Clinton. Secondly, Donald Trump's a wildcard. He's a loose cannon. The Republicans who control the Congress love control. They would much prefer to see Mike Pence as president, who is a controllable predictable down the pipe Christian conservative Republican.

CO: So I mean if you say that, did the impeachment, would it be Democrats who would seek his impeachment or Republicans?

AL: Well it could be both. The Democrats alone couldn't do it because they don't control the majority of the house. The house impeaches by majority vote. And you know, obviously it would have to be something pretty egregious, but look what he's setting up here. He's turned his business over to his children and that means it's all still in the family and we have no idea, because he hasn't released any taxes, of what his ties might be, the interest in Russia or China. That could lead both Democrats and Republicans to have a concern about impeachment. I’m not saying it's going to happen. But boy, he's setting up a train wreck here.

CO: You mentioned that because Mike Pence is an attractive Republican for a lot of the Republicans in Congress, because there’s a vice president that appeals to them, does that make Mr. Trump more ripe for impeachment?

AL: I can say that yes absolutely. The fact that you know Trump is uncontrollable and unpredictable compared to Mike Pence as kind of a Republican's dream president, certainly makes Trump more vulnerable. Again, that by itself wouldn't lead to impeachment. There would have to be some egregious, impeachable offense. And by the way, there is no established definition of what is an impeachable offense. Who knows what high crimes and misdemeanors really mean? When Gerald Ford, of course a former president, then minority leader of the U.S. House was leading a movement to impeach the chief justice, the liberal Earl Warren, he was asked, what is the definition of an impeachable offense? And he responded, whatever the House of Representatives decides it is.

CO: You say this is your gut feeling. Is it also your wishful thinking? Well it may be a bit of wishful thinking. Obviously in my scientific predictions, I've been absolutely impartial. I predicted five Democrats, four Republicans. You can’t get more even-handed than that. But my own gut is very concerned with a Trump presidency and very concerned, for example, with the appointment of Steve Bannon as a top White House strategist. I'm not saying Ben is a racist. I don't know the man. But he is, through his Breitbart News, he has been an outlet for white supremacy. And by the way the term ‘alt-right’ is a misnomer and it's meaningless. We're talking about the radical right that's been around at least in modern America ever since the turn of the century.

CO: If it came to pass that Mr. Trump was impeached and that Mike Pence became the president, would you be more satisfied with that?

AL: No. Again this isn't my personal preference. You know.

CO: But you did say that you do think this is a disastrous choice do you… do you think that the White House and the presidency would be in better hands with Mike Pence rather than…

AL: In a sense yes, in a sense no. I think it would be a more stable hands and be less risky. But I think Mike Pence would actually perhaps be more likely than Donald Trump to ram through a Republican Congress some very very right wing programs including very severe restrictions on abortion rights, for example, an attempt to roll back gay and lesbian rights. So in a sense, I wouldn't feel any more happy if Mike Pence became president as compared to Donald Trump. So this isn't necessarily wishful thinking on my part.

CO: We will leave it there. Professor Lichtman, thank you.

AL: Anytime Carol. Take care.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Allan Lichtman is a professor of history at the American University in Washington D.C. And that is where we reached him.

[Music]

90 Y/O Digs Grave

Guest: Jimmy Kickham

JD: You know typically, when someone says you've dug your own grave, it's not meant as a compliment. Jimmy Kickham, though, he did dig his own grave, and he did an awesome job.

Mr. Kickham lives in Souris West, Prince Edward Island. Over a long career working construction, he's dug a lot of holes. Today Mr. Kickham turns ninety years old. And when it came time for him to plan his own grave, it just made sense for him to do it himself. CBC-PEI's Pat Martel met up with Jimmy Kickham. Here's what that sounded like.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: engine of a truck, wind]

JIMMY KICKHAM: Oh this is, this is my grave here. I just one day, thought, I was digging graves, and I said, I`d do my own if I lived to be 90, so I`m not [unintelligible] that’s already done. So, that’s the story.

PAT MARTEL: So when you mentioned this to your family, and said you know, I want to dig my own grave, what did they say?

JK: They kind of looked at me said, “what are you talking about?” I said, “no I mean it” so they agreed then. Just natural I suppose.

PM: So you’ve been thinking about it for a few weeks?

JK: A few years.

PM: And how did it come about?

JK: Just thought I’d do it.

PM: Or someone else has to do it.

JK: Yup. Save someone else fighting over digging it for me.

PM: What did you think when you hear people saying “well that’s weird?”

JK: There’s not much you can do about that is it?

PM: What do you guys think of that idea, of digging your own grave?

MALE VOICE: It’s something else. It’s only one of a kind I figure.

FEMALE VOICE: I’m scared if you do it on your own they’re going to think you’re gone before you’re actually going.

MALE VOICE: He’s got a box in there and everything.

FEMALE VOICE: You put the box in there and everything?

MALE VOICE: The only thing that’s missing in there is his casket.

JK: Yeah, and me.

MALE VOICE: Yeah, and you.

[Sound: laughter]

PM: And he hopes it’s not too soon.

MALE VOICE: I hope you dug it deep enough so you can stand up in it.

JK: 78 by 33 by 56.

PM: What went through your mind when this is going on and you're digging?

JK: Nothing different. Just digging a hole.

PM: Just another hole?

JK: Another hole, for me.

[Sound: laughter]

JK: Something different. My family would always say, when my dad dug his hole and grave, you know, they’ll always have… they’ll know their grandfather dug his own grave with his own back. He was in his 90s. So that will be something to carry around with them, wouldn’t it?

JD: That was Jimmy Kickham of Souris West, P.E.I. He and some of his workmates were speaking with Pat Martel, of CBC Prince Edward Island, about Mr. Kickham literally digging his own grave. Jimmy Kickham's 90th birthday is today. Happy Birthday.

[Music]

CBC poetry prize winner

Guest: Michael Fraser

JD: It's poetry rooted in history that sounds like music. Toronto poet Michael Fraser has won the 2016 CBC Poetry Prize for his poem, "African Canadian in Union Blue." It tells the story of a black Canadian fighting for the Union Army during the U.S. Civil War and it does so in in evocative, period-specific language. Earlier today, Mr. Fraser spoke with Matt Galloway, the host of CBC Toronto's Metro Morning.

SOUNDCLIP

MATT GALLOWAY: Good morning. Congratulations.

MICHAEL FRASER: Thank you very much.

MG: How did you first come to hear about this story? Of black Canadian soldiers who are fighting in the U.S. Civil War?

MF: Well actually the genesis of this whole project goes way back and actually begins with Austin Clarke, the late great Austin Clarke.Yeah he wrote the forward for my first book on the serenity of stone, and after the book launch, he came up to me and said, “work hard and you must tell our stories.”

MG: If Austin tells you something, you have to follow through with that that's kind of who he was. MF: That's true. And when I was researching for the book that was published earlier this year which is also an homage to black diasporic figures. And I came across black soldiers from Canada fighting the American Civil War and I was extremely intrigued because they weren’t paid. They were initially told that they would receive payment but of course they didn’t. They also were prized because they had more skills and education obviously than many black American soldiers.

JD: That's Michael Fraser, the winner of the 2016 CBC Poetry Prize, speaking to Matt Galloway today on "Metro Morning." In a statement, the Prize jury wrote, quote, "the excitement of this poem lies in the density and roil of its language." Here is Mr. Fraser reading his winning poem, "African Canadian in Union Blue."

MF: I was AWOL, an unpaid ridge runner, hawking

distance from the coal-shaded Fifty-fourth

Massachusetts, pulling fleet foot through night

brush, my feet bramble-clawed and day-sore

yowling for a pair of spendy cruisers.

Bounty men near caught me in tamarack

larch. I saw their smoothbore guns day clear,

their eyes haired-up and owly. I was hanging

by my eyelids and angled abeam through

light-blazed meadow balm, jumping log cob

and bull stumps, moss-bitten rot-hole fallers,

deploying all the natural speed my buck-bred

seed-folk gave me. I was baseborn in Chatham,

mammy giving life to six pin-baskets in a rickety

pushcart. If I were to see him now, I'd ask daddy

why he heeled-off before eyeing me wrapped in

scrapped yarn. His master named him John, echoing

the new testament, and what mammy's broken water

branded me. Whitney's cotton gin nearly snapped

his hamitic saddle-brown back half open. Some days

he bleated raw like a crushed side-born calf, sliding

away from full breath. Heard he upped and skyrooted

through Virginia pine faster than whiskey jacks whistling

over feed camps, and sparked mammy's teenage

mind before stone-rolling to his novel life, a rail toad

booming around rusted aged jimmys and ragshag

toonerville trolleys. I continued dim-moon travelling

west through puckerbush, sledge, and prick-filled

tanglewood, lodging with other lucked-out negroes

beside slick calm finger lakes, hauling soaked rick to

hem-load tipcarts. We'd light down to chew tuff

cow-greased pone before snacking tobacco ropes,

our smoky tea-skinned black bodies day-whipped

and legged out. White clodhopper abolitionists and

schoolmarms let me sleep on shakedowns and boil-up

my battered threads out back, stooped over hose bibbs,

rubboards, or wind-turned mill wash. A swamp Yankee

and his jake leg wife above Rochester stodged up

scrapple, fire-burnt tunkup, and slack salted Pope's nose.

We popped it down with overproof lamp oil and everyone

was all in, plow shined. My mind was so jag skated,

I talked all my closed business like I was up a redwood

tree. Can't extract when my head clunked the sewed-rag

shuck bed. I night-woke bedfast with scarlet runners

beetling my bare flesh. Sweat runnelled and rilled

either side of my chest hillslopes. Heard hushed words

and realised they were studying to forlay me to sellers.

Morning I pretended to smudge along, then lit

out crow-quick past tumps and shadebark glades of

knurled hickory. On the final night, I met bullhorn

thunderheads throwing froth-smurred gulley washers

and stump-mover skies. I squinched and child-stivered

through teeming chizzly freshets that sizzled and gaffed me,

the mud water pooling the path's apron. Almost done in,

I saw America's back forty sproutland, sun-glimming

and drying after the rains had sugared-off. I went down

the ravine scoop smiling towards birlers and their floaty

Niagara chuck boats, waiting to river cross into Canaan.

JD: "African Canadian in Union Blue" was written and read by Toronto poet Michael Fraser. That poem is the winner of the 2016 CBC Poetry Prize. You can find out more about Mr. Fraser, and read the poem, at cbc.ca/books.

[Music]

Dateline: Liberland

JD: Dateline: seven square kilometres of marshland between Croatia and Serbia.

[Music]

First, it was no man's land. Then, it was a man's land. Now, it's "no way, man's” land. Last year, Vit Jedlicka discovered the tiny chunk of terra nullius while actually searching Wikipedia for "no man's land." The swampy area on the west bank of the Danube River was unclaimed by either Croatia or Serbia. So Mr. Jedlicka named it the "Free Republic of Liberland." He stuck a flag in it. And he was elected president of Liberland by the two people he was with at the time. That's fun. But he was serious. So when Carol spoke with Mr. Jedlicka last April… right after he had declared the new country -- she began with a simple question.

CAROL OFF: Mr. Jedlicka, what makes Liberland a country and not just a figment of your imagination that has a website?

VIK JEDLICKA: Well it is a piece of land which was not claimed by anybody for 24 years and according to international law, you can go and take a place which nobody wants and that's exactly what we did. And we established our own country on this piece of land and found that this idea is so popular. The idea of a very small government and also a voluntary [unintelligible] that it’s turned out to be a real nation.

CO: So what is it exactly? So it is on the Danube. And is there anything? Are there any buildings or people who live there already?

VJ: There is one building which is abandoned for 30 years and there are people who work there on a daily basis. Some of these people quite like this idea. So when we set up this flag there, they promised to secure the flag and to be our citizens at a time we were there. You know this is a semi-stage we need to overcome be able to really make a good country in the eyes of the international community.

JD: Mr. Jedlicka was right: Liberland was popular. More than four hundred thousand people signed up to become citizens of the soggy blob of land with no mandatory taxes and no gun control. But while hundreds of thousands of people are really into Liberland, Croatia is not into it at all. Which means no one can actually, physically, get into it. Including its founder and president, Vit Jedlicka. Croatia just doesn't want a new neighbour. Particularly one with no gun laws. So Croatian police just aren't allowing anyone into Liberland. Especially Mr. Jedlicka, who was arrested for trying to enter his country… and, according to the BBC, was prohibited from even entering Croatia earlier this year.The president isn't giving up. Since he's apparently not allowed on the land, he's making plans for the water: he's hoping to install a bunch of houseboats along the Danube, so people can actually move into Liberland, sort of. So it could turn out that Vit Jedlicka jumped the gun a bit. And that he was so busy making people believe in his land he didn't notice it was a land of make-believe.

[Music: Closing Theme]

JD: That's it for As It Happens for this Wednesday, November 16th. The news is next.

CO: Later on Ideas, Marilyn Powell talks to people living with mental illness. As It Happens will be back again tomorrow. I'm Carol Off. Good night.

JD: I'm Jeff Douglas. Good evening.

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Nov. 16, 2016 episode transcript

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