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The AIH Transcript for November 14, 2016

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

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CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

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JD: Tonight:

CO: Alt-Right hand man. Critics have called Steve Bannon a bigot, and misogynist and a fascist. Now President-Elect Donald Trump has called him his Chief White House Strategist and Senior Adviser.

JD: The bitter end. Margo Bentley spent years in a vegetative state before her death last week in a B.C. nursing home. Even though her living will specifically ask she be allowed to die.

CO: The War within the war. Kurdish forces have been key Canadian and coalition allies in the fight against ISIS in Iraq. Now those forces have been accused of destroying Arab homes, which could be a war crime.

JD: Shaken awake just after midnight, the tremors began. And tonight a resident near the epicenter of the earthquake in New Zealand tells us what things look like in the cold light of day.

CO: Thinking outside the inbox. He was the voice of AOL's email greeting. And now that he's been outed as an Uber driver, Elwood Edwards tells us about being asked to say "You've got mail" over and over and over again.

JD: And look Ma, no deckhands. It travelled some 3000 kilometers in just a few months, and with our guests help we're going to try to figure out how an empty house boat floated from Newfoundland to Ireland. As It Happens, The Monday Edition. Radio that just loves stories that start with the arrival of a mysterious drifter.

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Stephen Bannon profile, Margot Bentley obit, Newfoundland houseboat

Steve Bannon Profile

Guest: Kurt Bardella

JEFF DOUGLAS: On 60 Minutes, he said he was going to bring the country together. Apparently though, he's going to divide it a little more first. As you may have heard, President-Elect Donald Trump has started naming his White House inner circle. His chief of staff will be Reince Priebus, Chairman of the Republican National Committee. That's a pretty safe choice... especially compared to the man he has chosen as his Chief Strategist and Senior Adviser. Stephen Bannon, the Executive Chairman of Breitbart News. Mr. Bannon and took over as CEO of Mr. Trump's campaign in August. His website has been accused of peddling conspiracy theories and outright hate with headlines like quote, "Would You Rather Your Child Had Feminism or Cancer?" and quote, "How Muslim Migrants Devastate a Community." Kurt Bardella used to work for Mr. Bannon and at Breitbart. We reached Mr. Bardella in Washington D.C.

CAROL OFF: Mr. Bardella, why do you think that Donald Trump chose Steve Bannon as his Chief White House Strategist?

KURT BARDELLA: Well I think for Donald it's important to have people that you trust particularly, you know, in this massive position of being the President, you want to have people that you can depend on who have earned your trust. And at this point he was part of the team that helped him win the election. And he would be hard pressed not to have someone like that who played such a major role in a success by his side as the president.

CO: Tell us a bit about what you know Steve Bannon from having worked with him at Breitbart. What kind of what kind of influence might he have on Donald Trump?

KURT BARDELLA: I think he'll continue to have a very strong influence with the President-Elect. You know Steve is one of the hardest working, smart, savvy operators in Washington. And much like Donald Trump, he has a knack for being able to touch the pulse of big issues that resonate with a certain segment of the electorate. And putting that into a vocabulary that motivates them to act and to get passionate and mobilized. And I think as President, Steve understands more than anything that so much of that job is being able to communicate effectively communicate with the American people. And I expect Steve's role to really be taking the reins of help shaping that message and crafting, almost like a director would in a film, what the Trump presidency will look and sound like.

CO: And what are the values that they share?

KURT BARDELLA: Their approach to confrontation and conflict is very similar. And it's pretty much never back down, always forge forward, never concede, never admit any mistakes. You know, if anyone questions you, run them over.

CAROL OFF: What were your personal experiences working with Stephen Bannon.

KURT BARDELLA: You know Steve is again like I said, very intense. Work consumes his life. And he's a very demanding guy and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just, you know, how he operates. And I think this is someone who spoils for a fight. He loves conflict and he just doesn't ever stop. There is no off switch for Steve.

CO: What are some of the things that he said during editorial meetings at Breitbart that you found uncomfortable?

KURT BARDELLA: Well you know, I try to stay away from talking in detail about things that I heard, you know, in confidence, when I was representing them. What I found concerning was the idea that a media entity would become a de facto propaganda arm of a political campaign. And as we transition now into the White House, you have for the first time in our country's history, a media entity that's positioned to be the propaganda vehicle for the president. And we've never had that before. And I think there's going to be a massive conflict between the free press and that arm that works within the West Wing now.

CO: In what way is Breitbart an extension of Donald Trump and his soon to be presidency?

KURT BARDELLA: Well in that there is no light of separation now that the person who's been running Breitbart for years is now the virtual co-chief of staff of the Trump presidency.

CO: And some of the things that Mr. Trump has said about women, about minorities, about Muslims, about... Did Steve Bannon help shape those remarks?

KURT BARDELLA: Yeah I think that Steve's influence was very much using a vocabulary to try to pit different groups of Americans against one another and to cater to the most passionate audience that he had at his disposal to motivate them to support Donald Trump. And I think they did that very effectively, unfortunately.

CO: Some of the headlines in Breitbart have been quite controversial. Of course the attacks on Planned Parenthood which were described as being like Planned Parenthood is like the Holocaust, Bill Kristol, a renegade Jew, the discussions of the rape culture of Muslims, that if women don't like being attacked online and Twitter and Facebook they should log off and leave the internet for men. Birth control makes women crazy. Who was sort of behind these kinds of headlines at news?

KURT BARDELLA: Well I think it's their entire team there who understands, you know, the directive from the top which is they have an audience that wants that kind of content and they are going to continue to provide that kind of content to keep that audience engaged and motivated and passionate supporters of the President-Elect.

CO: Why did you go to work there?

KURT BARDELLA: You know when I started, you know, they started as one of my clients. And the objective was they wanted to be more of a legitimate media enterprise. Along the way, their goals changed and that's when I decided to stop representing them, during the primary, when they very fully began to just become advocates of the Trump campaign. And it wasn't it wasn't about reporting on what was happening in the campaign or the 17 different candidates that were vying for Republican nomination. It was clear that they were they were putting their weight on the scales for Trump, and that this wasn't something I was comfortable being a part of. For me, Donald Trump was not a candidate I could ever get behind and support anyway because his divisive rhetoric his record of having misogynistic attitudes, racist attitudes even, you know, again making fun of a disabled reporter. These are things that to me are just indefensible. And it was just that I didn't want to be a part of.

CO: How much of that, because you've said that when you joined it was a different organization, did Steve Bannon bring that change to the organization?

KURT BARDELLA: I think that they saw an opportunity and a figurehead in Donald Trump that they could coalesce around and achieve the goal of becoming more influential and powerful and that's what they did. And I think that's what changed.

CO: How do you think he will get along with Reince Priebus, the new Chief of Staff.

KURT BARDELLA: I think that's a doomed union. Three, six, nine months from now, one of those two won't be there anymore.

CO: So which one do you think will be left standing?

KURT BARDELLA: I think Steve will. What you see is what you get, and the Trump that we've seen for the last year, is the Trump we’ll see as president.

CO: And how would you characterize that?

KURT BARDELLA: Oh disastrous for America. I mean, you have someone who's comfortable taking on the Free Press who promotes people taking matters into their own hands, who promotes the idea of investigating and incarcerating your political opponents and adversaries. These are all signs of someone who has a dictatorial perspective in governing. I think that's a very dangerous thing to have.

CO: And do you think that Steve Bannon will encourage the president to do those kinds of things?

KURT BARDELLA: I think he'll continue to encourage Trump to be exactly who he has been this entire campaign. And that won't change, whether they're in the Oval Office or anywhere else for that matter.

CO: And what role do you think Breitbart News will play in Trump America?

KURT BARDELLA: I think they'll continue to be what they have been, which is the propaganda arm of the administration.

CO: Mr. Bardella, we'll leave it there, Thank you.

KURT BARDELLA: Anytime.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Kurt Bardella is a former spokesperson for Breitbart News. We reached him in Washington D.C. And for more on this, you can tune in to The Current tomorrow morning on CBC Radio One for more on Steve Bannon. Anna-Maria Tremonti is going to be speaking with a Bloomberg reporter who's profiled him.

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Margot Bentley Obit

Guest: Katherine Hammond

JEFF DOUGLAS: Margot Bentley's life did not end the way she stated she wanted it to. Years ago, before she was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, Ms. Bentley wrote what she called a living will. In the event that she should become extremely disabled, she requested that she be allowed to die, and that she not be given any food or liquids. But Ms. Bentley's request was never honored by the care facility where she lived, and for years she was spoon fed by staff. Last week Ms. Bentley did die of natural causes in a B.C. nursing home. She was 85 years old. We reached her daughter Katherine Hammond via Skype and Melaque, Mexico, where she's traveling.

CAROL OFF: Ms. Hammond, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

KATHERINE HAMMOND: Thank you. But don't be sorry. I think the feelings should really be one of relief. I am incredibly relieved that my mom has finally died. And of course it's a tragedy, but the real tragedy with her diagnosis many many years ago.

CO: We spoke about that last year when you were on this show and about how you were so frustrated that the court would not allow your mother to have her living will, and to die the way she wished. Can you remind people as to why that was the case?

KATHERINE HAMMOND: Well we thought my mom’s advanced directive, what she called her living will, was very clear. And she also spoke with us about it, her family members, many times, and we all understood her wishes. And so, we were shocked when we were ultimately forced to take my mom's situation to court because the nursing home where she resided refused to honor her wishes and refused to follow the directives of her family on her behalf when we said, “please stop feeding her. Do not put anything into her mouth. She did not want to be fed, she did not want to be kept alive” when she was in this unresponsive state, and also, with severe physical and mental deterioration. So going to court, Carol, I actually thought in 2012 that this was an obvious case that my mother's wishes were clear and this was simply a sort of a technicality. Of course I was horribly wrong on essentially on all counts. So I came to know that the B.C. Health Care Act is badly written. I came to know that Supreme Court judges can, in my opinion, make very poor findings of fact. In this case, I was horrified that this judge found that my mom, in end stage dementia, severe mental deterioration, the judge found that she was capable of making choice and that she was making decisions when she opened her mouth to the repeated prodding of a spoon.

CO: It is important to explain what the significance of that is because the argument was that if she's opening her mouth then she wants to be fed and she wants to live and that that was a contradiction of the living will. And so that was the argument that the court gave and the judge accepted. Is that right?

KATHERINE HAMMOND: Yeah. The judge actually mused that maybe my mom had changed her mind since she'd written the document and in fact she wanted to live. And we argued in court that my mom like any other severely brain damaged adult, has a very basic rooting reflex. So it's a reflexive action. When the mouth is touched with an object it will open. And you know, in cases like my mother's, we need to rely on advanced directives. We need to know what she wanted when she was a mentally competent adult and we did know that but it was disregarded. And so you know, I'm really encouraging people and as you know, our current legislation around doctor assisted dying. It tragically doesn't include advanced directives. So people like my mom still would not be able to receive doctor assisted dying even though they make their wishes clear when they are mentally able to do so.

CO: What state was your mother in when she died?

KATHERINE HAMMOND: A horrible, horrible state of being grossly emaciated. I would guess she probably only weighed perhaps 75 pounds. She had a lot of rotten teeth in her mouth. She was very spastic. So her hands were curled up and claw like and she was basically lying motionless in bed as she has been for the last five to seven years

CO: Why were you not able, your family, why was your family not able to bring her home to die within her own home or in one of your homes?

KATHERINE HAMMOND: Well, that's a very good question, and it's absurd that we weren't. And we made that request of the care home at the end of 2011. We had gone to them earlier that year with her living will in our hand asking that it be honored. And then there was, you know several months of assessments being down and a legal opinion obtained by Fraser Health. And ultimately at the end of 2011, we had a meeting and at the end of the meeting we were asked what we wanted and we said our first option would be that Mum stay where she was, that they stop feeding her and giving her gelatin and that they support her with end of life medication and sedation to keep her comfortable and allow her to die. That was our first option. The second option was to have her admitted to palliative care. But they explained they'd had my mum assessed by a palliative care physician, and in fact we did get a copy of that report, and he deemed that she was not a palliative care patient that they couldn't predict she would die within six months. And so the assessment concluded that she was in the best place for the care that she needed. And so the third option. I said I would like to bring my mom home and I will allow her to die in my home with the supervision of her physician, and I'll hire some palliative care nurses to help me. And all three options were denied by the Fraser Health Authority and we were told that they had a duty to continue to feed my mother. And shortly after that my mum's family doctor discovered in her chart a written document from the Fraser Health Authority that directed the nursing care staff to call the Abbotsford police immediately if we tried to remove my mom from the facility.

CO: So if you tried to take your mother out of there, they would have called the police and you would have been charged.

KATHERINE HAMMOND: They would have called the police. And so the letter directed, Margot was to be returned immediately to the facility. We thought about bringing her home. I thought about bringing her into my house and allowing her to die. You know, I talked to lawyers about it and I was vulnerable and open to being charged with perhaps manslaughter, perhaps second degree murder. I mean Fraser Health took on my mom's case with an unusual vigor.

CO: Your mother's disease meant that you had no real connection with her for so many years. How were you going to remember her?

KATHERINE HAMMOND: I’ll remember her as she was. You know she was a beautiful, kind, gentle person and a very loving mother and grandmother. I'm in Mexico now, and she lived in Mexico for many years and she painted many many beautiful images of Mexico. So I will remember her as an artist, a horsewoman, a gardener, but mostly a kind, gentle, loving woman. And ironically, my mom died on the day that her first great granddaughter was born. It was her great granddaughter’s second birthday. So there's huge significance there for my family. So even though it was an end, it was also a good beginning. And we will always remember my mom for the wonderful person that she was before this horrible disease took her away from us.

CO: Ms. Hammond, again our condolences to you and your family, and thank you.

KATHERINE HAMMOND: Thank you so much, Carol. Thanks for helping to create conversation around this important issue. Thank you.

CO: All right.

KATHERINE HAMMOND: OK bye bye.

JEFF DOUGLAS: That was Margo Bentley's daughter, Kathrine Hammond. We reached her in Melaque, Mexico.

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Newfoundland Houseboat

Guest: Michael Hurst

JEFF DOUGLAS: A mysterious Canadian ghost ship has washed up on the shores of Ireland. Well, a ghost house boat. I know I know it's less spooky, even less spooky when you hear about the solar panels. Still you know, points for weirdness. Apparently, the boat was built by environmentalist Rick Small. No one knows why it was set adrift. And so far no one has been able to get hold of Mr. Small. Michael Hurst is in charge of the Ballyglass volunteer Coast Guard unit which found the vessel. We reached him in Belmullet, county Mayo, Ireland.

CAROL OFF: Michael, is this one of the strangest things you've had wash up on your shore?

MICHAEL HURST: Without shadow of a doubt, it is. We just couldn't believe… When I got the phone call from a member of the public who was actually one of our Coast Guard unit members. He tried to explain to me what he'd seen washed from the shore. And I was trying to visualize. By the time I got there I just couldn't believe the structure that met me.

CO: And what was your first reaction when you actually saw it?

MICHAEL HURST: Jesus how did that get there? Really, was my first reaction. And really, the other side then that sprung into mind, because we are Coast Guards, was first of all, to secure it. And second of all, to make sure that there was no person on board.

CO: So were you able to get on board the vessel?

MICHAEL HURST: Yes. It was just ebbing and waving with the tides. So there was very little, very little water at times underneath. So once we secured it we waited for the tidal level to subside and we were able to board the vessel then.

CO: You must have a moment before you board a vessel like that, that’s washed to your shore, when you have a moment thinking ‘I don't know what I'm going to find inside.’

MICHAEL HURST: That was a part and there's no doubt. But you know, sometimes your adrenaline is pumping and you're going to get inside. You got to make sure that there is nobody inside.

CO: Well first of all, describe what it looks like on the water.

MICHAEL HURST: For all the world, it's like sometimes I would describe it as a builder Skip where it tapers in at both ends and the middle then would have had windows in it. And the roof it has solar panels.

CO: And then what does it look like inside?

MICHAEL HURST: Inside it's, I suppose, it's a little bit of a wreck. I don't think it was as pretty looking as when it actually left Newfoundland. With bits of whatever it was made up of in inside had been fallen onto the ground. A couple of panels on the ground and that so, it wasn't bad looking. It was dry inside.

CO: Well some people who have seen it said it looks more like a caravan or a trailer than a boat. It's obvious that it can float

MICHAEL HURST: It can float, and float very well because it was floating at one stage when we were there trying to retrieve it, it floated out. So it does float. Yes it has the appearance of a caravan. But it doesn't have the wheels. And it does, it gives you that impression because you have the side windows on it and that, and a roof naturally enough.

CO: Any sign inside as to who might have owned it or what the intention of the vessel was?

MICHAEL HURST: Yeah there was an inscription written, handwritten. It says “I, Rick Small, donate this structure to a homeless youth to give them a better life than Newfoundland could not do.” And then it says, “No rent, no mortgage, no Hydro.”

CO: What do you take away from that, saying that ‘I donate this to homeless youth, to give them a better life the Newfoundlanders chose not to do… No rent no mortgage no hydro.’ Who do you think was supposed to be living in this?

MICHAEL HURST: It's, I suppose, it's a statement maybe by the government in Newfoundland, that they don't maybe look after their homeless. And this guy, in doing this, putting together this vessel, may give a roof over the head to somebody that is homeless.

CO: But, mind you, you knew it was about Newfoundland. You must have realized that it had come all the way from Canada.

MICHAEL HURST: Correct. That got me thinking seriously. If what was written was fact and it had come from Newfoundland, it rang a little alarm bell to think that it actually came so far and it still could float and still in relatively good condition.

CO: Do you know anything about Rick Small? Have you done any research to find out who the owner of this vessel was?

MICHAEL HURST: Yeah. I checked up on Facebook. And on our Facebook page the Ballyglass Coast Guard's unit’s Facebook page. A number of people have posted articles written about Rick Small and how he traveled across Canada on a solar paneled bike of some sort. So that could just kind of told me that he’s a guy who does a little bit of inventing and just maybe likes to help people.

CO: A guy who lives outside the box a bit.

MICHAEL HURST: Yes. Basically.

CO: What's going to happen with it? I mean, can you return it to Rick Small? Or is there something that you plan to do with this boat?

MICHAEL HURST: Really what they're looking is, if Rick Small is contacted, and he does not want to retrieve the vessel, it is hoped locally that the vessel would be repaired to some fairly good condition, and to use it as a tourist attraction along a tourist route that we call the Wild Atlantic Way. So it's something that we may develop as a tourist attraction. And I think within the Coast Guard, we're delighted to have some good news story to talk about.

CO: I think we all are. Thanks, Michael.

MICHAEL HURST: Not at all. Good talking to you.

CO: You too. Bye bye.

MICHAEL HURST: OK, bye.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Michael Hurst is in charge of the Ballyglass volunteer Coast Guard Unit. We reached him in Belmullet, county Mayo, Ireland.

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CAROL OFF: All right. We're going to take a very brief break now. But there's still a lot more to come on As It Happens.

JD: There is indeed. We have relied on their help to fight ISIS, but it turns out Kurdish forces may be fighting their own battles in Iraq as well, evicting Arabs from their homes and then destroying those homes which would not just make for an awkward alliance, could also be a war crime.

CO: Dawn was a long time coming in New Zealand today after an earthquake that hit in the middle of the night. I'll speak with a resident who will explain the damage he's seeig.

JD: And yesterday, Paris marked a year since the harrowing attacks of November 13^th, 2015. Today we're going to do the same. Stay tuned. I'm Jeff Douglas.

CO: And I'm Carol Off.

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Human Rights Watch: Kurdish war crimes?, New Zealand earthquake

Human Rights Watch: Kurdish war crimes?

Guest: Belkis Wille

CAROL OFF: Hello again, and welcome back. I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: And I'm Jeff Douglas.This is As It Happens, The Monday Edition. Part Two.

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JD: Coming up.

CO: The buildup then the bill.The prime minister pitched his trillion dollar investment giants on Canadian infrastructure investment. But the NDP's finance critics say taxpayers will end up paying in the end...

JD: It is always so moving isn't it when a stranger says those three little words: you've got mail. Uber driver Elwood Edwards tells us about his past life as the AOL inbox guy and his present life saying that same phrase to every passenger he gets. And we'll say goodbye to journalist and co-host of PBS News Hour, Gwen Ifill. Stay tuned.

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JD: As the battle for the city of Mosul in Iraq continues, so do concerns about possible war crimes committed by Kurdish forces against Arab civilians there. According to residents, local officials and rights groups, the Kurdish Peshmerga, who have been leading the fight for Mosul from the north, are evicting Sunni Arabs and destroying their homes. Canadian forces on the ground in Iraq have been closely tied to the Kurd forces for the past two years. And now Canadian officials are admitting there is reason for concern over these latest allegations. Belkis Wille is the senior Iraq researcher with Human Rights Watch. And today we reached her in Erbil northern Iraq.

CO: Ms. Wille, what are you hearing about homes of Arabs being destroyed?

BELKIS WILLE: So this is a topic of concern for Human Rights Watch since over two years where we see Kurdish forces retaking land in the battle against ISIS and then demolishing Arab homes, sometimes entire Arab villages, days, weeks, even months after they are firmly in control of the area where there is no military necessity. And that constitutes a war crime.

CO: The Peshmerga and the Kurdish forces say that if they're destroying any property, it's for a military purpose or it's because there are potential explosive devices in the buildings that must be destroyed. What do you say to those arguments?

BELKIS WILLE: Well in terms of the claim that the houses are destroyed in the course of the fighting, we have satellite imagery for each of the 83 villages we looked at that proves that the destruction happened long after Kurdish forces were firmly in control of the area. When it comes to whether ISIS booby trapped homes with IEDs, you know, the way to deal with a house that's booby trapped is not to drive a bulldozer into it. That would be incredibly unsafe including for the driver of the bulldozer.

CO: What do the people with whom you spoke say about what happened? What are the stories you've heard?

BELKIS WILLE: One family that I sat with for about an hour and a half, I sat on the floor in their tent, it was wintertime. The camp they're living in now was muddy, it was cold.

They have six young children, and the mother told me with tears in her eyes about how they saw trucks coming out of their village when they had been told to leave by Kurdish forces. And these trucks were carrying their refrigerator, their washing machine. So the village was being looted. And in the other direction going into the village they saw Kurdish forces driving in bulldozers. And she just said to me, "what is going to be the future for my children? Where do we go after this? Because it's very clear that we will never be able to go home."

CO: We've heard that the Canadian Forces who are working with Kurdish forces in Iraq, they've been told to keep an eye out for possible human rights abuses, that this is something that they should be on the alert about. How likely or unlikely would it be that they would encounter some of these things?

BELKIS WILLE: This practice is happening out in the open, across what is known as the disputed territories between the Kurdish authorities in northern Iraq and the government in Baghdad. Any government that is providing military support to the Kurdish forces could not miss this practice from happening. I've spoken to multiple military commanders from coalition partners and they've told me they've seen this practice happening. So I'm sure that Canadian forces in the course of their support to the Kurdish military will be able to see this practice ongoing.

CO: The statement from the civilian policy adviser with the Canadian task force has said that certainly from the point of view of the government of Canada, we expect our military members to report any incidents to date. There have been no reports of such incidents.

What do you say back to Canadian authorities, Canadian officials on this.

BELKIS WILLE: Given our visits to the areas, as well as the satellite imagery that we've looked at, we know that this is happening at such a wide scale. Kurdish forces are rolling in to these villages during daylight with excavators, with bulldozers and razing entire villages to the ground. The fact that a military providing close support to the Kurdish forces is not noticing this, I would find frankly shocking.

CO: What reasons, what motives do you understand the Kurds have for raising and destroying these villages and these homes?

BELKIS WILLE: We've spoken to many different Kurdish military commanders. Some tell us that essentially Sunni Arabs are supporters of ISIS. These villagers were or are supporters of ISIS and they simply had to destroy these villages, not to remove the populations because they represented a security risk. Others tell us that this isn't happening. They deny the practice and they simply reiterate that it was airstrike, heavy artillery destroying these homes because they realize that even if they were to argue that the local populace, some segment of it supported ISIS, destroying their homes without military reason, is a war crime.

CO: Back in the summer Human Rights Watch did speak with the president of the Kurdistan Regional Government about what they're doing. Can you tell us what he had to say about the villages?

BELKIS WILLE: President Barzani in his meeting with us emphasized the fact that, in his view, this land, that these villages that are being destroyed is on, is Kurdish land. Now that ties back to the bigger historical context of this problem. Saddam Hussein, in the late 70s, 80s, and even into the early 90s, had launched a policy called Arabization, by which he brought southern Iraqi populations, families into the north of the country, and created new villages, Arab villages, in what was historically Kurdish land. And there was a strong feeling among Kurdish commanders we spoke to, that these villages are on land that simply does not belong to the Arab residents. And what you get the sense is that they are trying to turn back the clock, erase the Arabization policy, and go back to before Saddam Hussain. Now, these families have been there since the 70s, 80s. At this point, this is their land.

CO: The last time we spoke, as the Iraqi and Kurdish forces were about to take Mosul, were still trying to take Mosul, and the support that coalition partners like Canada, were giving. You said, at that time, there was evidence that villages were being destroyed, as well, Arab villages. Does that continue as they make their move on Mosul?

BELKIS WILLE: Well unfortunately, two weeks ago, we saw two more Arab villages being largely destroyed. In one of them, in a village of about 100 homes, we saw 90 homes destroyed, and the only 10 left standing were of Turkoman and Kurdish families. But all the Arab homes were destroyed. This shows that this practice is ongoing and essentially what we're seeing is collective punishment.

CO: And we know that coalition partners are working with them as they move on Mosul.

BELKIS WILLE: Absolutely. The coalition has ground forces, they're Canadian forces on the ground, there are American Special Forces on the ground. As a result of that, they're seeing exactly what's going on in the course of the fighting.

CO: Ms. Wille, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

BELKIS WILLE: Thank you so much.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Belkis Wille is the senior Iraq researcher with Human Rights Watch. We reached her in Erbil, Iraq.

New Zealand Earthquake

Guest: Dave Lyons

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JEFF DOUGLAS: In the early morning hours of Monday in New Zealand, the South Island began to shake and it kept shaking and shaking. It was a 7.8 magnitude earthquake that jolted people awake, sent them scrambling to higher ground fearful of a tsunami. So far, only two people are reported dead. But road access to the popular tourist destination of Kaikoura has been cut off. And this morning, helicopters began to arrive to begin the evacuation. Dave Lyons runs a surfing school in Kaikoura. That's where we reached him.

CO: Dave, what's the situation right now in Kaikoura?

DAVE LYONS: Pretty much, everyone's just running around, everyone's helping each other. Everyone's just down at the supermarket getting supplies to take back to wherever they're all camping out.

CO: And where are you camping out?

DAVE LYONS: I'm actually on top of the peninsula. Well everyone's gone to high ground because, obviously, being on the earthquake line, everyone's sort of scared about the tsunami coming in.

CO: Can you just tell us what happened? I mean just take us back to just after midnight when this quake hit. What did you feel?

DAVE LYONS: I was upstairs, and woke up to a little shake, and I was just lying there, sort of... normally I feel them and sort of give you a little hello and disappear, but just kept, it was a grower, it just keep growing. And then it got pretty full-on and I woke up my wife and said 'earthquake.' And then I... it started to get really full-on. So we managed to get out of our room. And as it real hit we were stuck in the... holding onto the railing in the stairwell and just yelling to the kids, "Hold on, stay still, stay calm, wait." While that was happening, my legs were getting thrown from underneath me, and I was holding onto the railing.

CO: What were your kids doing at that point?

DAVE LYONS: My children pretty much got thrown out of their beds. And you couldn't you couldn't get anywhere. It was that full-on that you pretty much just had to wait it out. You were just getting rolled around. And once it stopped, we just gathered up the children and then pretty much jumped in the car and straight up the hill.

CO: How old are you kids?

DAVE LYONS: Seven, nine and twelve.

CO: How are they responding to all of this?

DAVE LYONS: Yeah, they're freaking out. They're still... everyone's... no one's slept. We didn't sleep the whole night. They're not down here, they don't want to come down on the [Unintelligible] because, you know, the tsunami. So they're staying in the woods and what not, so we're staying on high ground yeah.

CO: I want to get to questions about the tsunami in a moment, but just, the kids I can't imagine what that's like, when you're when just after midnight you're deeply asleep, probably, and they're thrown out of their beds. Did they... did you prepare them for this kind of thing?

DAVE LYONS: Yeah I've, especially after the Christchurch earthquake. We've had plenty of drills because we're in South Bay, so I've always gone through a mental preparation with them. Just saying that you know, stay calm, stay still, don't go anywhere. You know, get to cover obviously and just wait. And once it stops, then make a decision, and then we go to safe ground.

CO: You got into the car and where did you all go?

DAVE LYONS: OK so the peninsula is just one kilometer. It's the main Kaikoura Peninsula. You got the north side and the south side. Well that sits probably a couple of… 300 meters higher than sea level. And everyone's just close up to the top there.

CO: What was your greatest fear at that point is you were getting to higher ground?

DAVE LYONS: My whole fear thing was pretty much where was the earthquake situated? If it was out on the fog, on the water, are we going to get a big tsunami? My whole panic pretty much in myself was to get up, in case the tsunami was coming. Because it was pitch black, it was dark, you couldn't see anything. So in the driving up, we were hoping that the roads were OK. Could we get there? Are we going to be trapped on the flat? I was just pretty much just praying that we could get up to higher ground and we did, so that was that was a huge relief, once we got up there.

CO: What are you worried about now?

DAVE LYONS: Oh here's one... [Sound: exhales]

CO: Here's one what?

DAVE LYONS: Oh, earthquake, just rolling just then.

CO: You just had an aftershock?

DAVE LYONS: Yeah, aftershock...

CO: What did that feel like?

DAVE LYONS: Yes. [Unintelligible]. Your nerves are jumpy. Often in crisis, I've felt a lot of them for three years doing the earthquake recovery week. [Unintelligible]. So yeah, I'm sort of, don't want to get used to them, but you just got to brace yourself and hope that it's not going to grow to a big one. So you're hoping it's just a small little aftershock and not a biggie. But you know it's not nice. My nerves are jumpy, keeps me jumpy. I was rolling along and a lady dropped a can and I was lining up to get our food and the whole place just jumped. So everyone's on edge.

CO: You said, you're back down at your house now and I bet your kids don't want to go back?

DAVE LYONS: No, they're up at the hold up there, we've got a safe place up there, there's five families there, got a little patch of grass next to the caravan. And we're just sleeping and sharing the house together. [Unintelligible] We're down here doing a cleanout, we just thought we’d get the house tidy and salvage what we can, and get the place ready. So once things settle down we can move the family back. So that’s our plan for today, but we'll be staying up on the hill probably for the next week. And just figuring out how we’re going to get our lives back really. We’ve lost our businesses. I've got a surf school, my wife’s got a jewellery shop, completely destroyed. We’ve lost our whole summer, there will be no tours coming here and this is what we bank on. The whole town banks on, on the summer months as a tourist destination with the whale watch and with the awesome activities here. So yeah we’re pretty much just trying to all get our lives back your lies back and hope we’re all up and ready to go for the following summer.

CO: I'm glad you're OK and I hope that you are able to put it all together and get your house repaired.

DAVE LYONS: Yeah no, cheers. Thank you for that. So it’s just going to be a big clean-up.

CO: Take care, Dave.

DAVE LYONS: Thank you, cheers.

CO: Bye.

DAVE LYONS: Bye.

JEFF DOUGLAS: We reached Dave Lyons in Kaikoura, New Zealand.

[Music]

Jarvis Cocker

JEFF DOUGLAS: They were just out drinking, eating, and dancing and then they were under attack. That was one year ago that gunmen and suicide bombers struck Paris at six locations across the city. One hundred and thirty people were killed. Yesterday the city marked the anniversary by unveiling six plaques at the Stade de France where the first bombs were detonated, at the bars and the restaurants attacked by gunmen. And at the Bataclan concert hall. Jarvis Cocker was living in Paris at the time of the attacks. He wrote a poem in tribute and he aired it on his BBC radio show last November. Yesterday, to mark the anniversary, he aired that poem once again. It is called “Friday 13th 2015.”

SOUNDCLIP

It was a beautiful sunny day. A friend said, the strongest statement of resistance is to just keep going. So…

[Sound: Electronic music in background]

Transvestite with blond hair, red boots, and slight 5 o’clock shadow, I love you.

And girls with their legs and fake tan, I love you.

Grove with hand-painted ‘Beware of the Cat’ sign, I love you.

Asian guy in elaborate shades, I love you.

Run in the playground, father for the first time at 46, I love you.

We’re all free. Free to mess up or get trashed, but free to do it in our own way and I love the way that you are doing it. And I love the way that you are free.

Woman alone in the bakery, I love you.

Man in peppermint slacks, I love you.

Shopkeeper constructing a tower of clementines, I love you.

Dad smoking a fag and pushing a push chair, I love you.

Leaves of grass growing beneath a side street, I love you.

Blonde cyclist with flowers in her hair, I love you.

Googly eyes in discount shop window, I love you.

Damaged ex-raver, I love you. I love you.

Teenagers listening to portable speakers outside the waffle shop, I love you.

Student reading a book while texting at the same time. I love you, I love you all.

There are three holes in the window of a cafe called Cosa Nostra. Someone has painted a pink heart below them and the word “Courage.” A tour bus with the words “Beat the Street” written on the side, is still parked outside the Bataclan. The ground is covered in messages written in colored chalk.

[Sound: piano]

Middle-aged stamp collector, I love you.

Dark-haired girl with heavy gold chain, I love you.

Former great beauty in orange puffer jacket, I love you.

Tall Black guy in yellow and taupe, I love you.

Tri-colour walking stick, I love you.

I love you all.

I love you all.

Paris, I love you.

JEFF DOUGLAS: That was Jarvis Cocker with his spoken word piece, “Friday 13th 2015.” It was re-aired on BBC yesterday to mark the one year anniversary of the attacks in Paris that left 130 people dead. Jarvis Cocker again was living in Paris when the attacks happened. And now from 1968, Here is Jacques Dutronc with Il est cinq heures, Paris s'éveille.

[Music: with Il est cinq heures, Paris s'éveille: French Rock]

Back To Top »

Blackrock: NDP, Gwen Ifill obit, You've Got Mail

Blackrock: NDP

Guest: Guy Caron

JEFF DOUGLAS: The prime minister was in Toronto today for meetings with some of the world's most powerful investors. The Pension Fund directors and the private equity giants have trillions of dollars on their hands. And Mr. Trudeau wants them to put as much as 200 billion of those dollars into Canadian infrastructure projects. But these are the kind of people who want a return on their investment and here's how Mr. Trudeau responded when he was asked where that might come from.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: I think when we talk about drawing in global capital, there are many different models to look at many different potentials. Either it's taxpayer money upfront. As we know we're as a government investing record number, record amounts in infrastructure. We're talking about well over 150 billion dollars in infrastructure over the next 12 years here in this country. But the fact is, we know the infrastructure deficit is significantly greater. So drawing in global capital to look at investments in a way that is going to benefit municipalities, you know take an example of the Canada line for in in Vancouver that was a mix of public and private investment that has given Vancouverites a tremendous amount of ease of access from the airport to the downtown core and places in between. We know that partnerships with the private sector can be done right. And we look forward to working with these significant global investors to see how we can make sure that we're responding to the needs for good jobs now for Canadians and growth in the long term.

JEFF DOUGLAS: That was Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in Toronto earlier today. Guy Caron is the NDP's finance critic. We reached him in Ottawa.

CAROL OFF: Mr. Caron, you just heard the prime minister. So what's wrong with that? He says good jobs now.

GUY CARON: Well he's talking about investment in the economy and as a rule that's actually a good thing. What he didn't mention in this specific excerpt is the investments he's actually hoping for by the private sector, be it pension funds, or private equity funds. Obviously they will want a rate of return and the return on those investments will be through user fees and will be through tolls.

CO: So yeah, I just want to explore that a bit more what's in it for them. If these companies do these very very large funds invest in this in these partnerships and become part of this bank. What did they get out of it?

Well that's a question the government refuses to answer, and I've seen the question asked twice during the scrum with the prime minister and he refused to answer. And the finance minister also refuses to answer. It's clear that with this infrastructure bank, the government wants to leverage $4 of private capital with $1 of public capital. That means up 80 percent of this bank will be funded by the private sector and we're talking about pension funds, yes, but we're also talking about private equity funds like Blackrock. And what that means is that once this bank, which should have a capital of maybe 200 billion, will start investing, they will actually invest in highways they will invest in bridges, they will invest in water treatment plants, but they won't to invest out of the goodness of their hearts. They will want to return them on this and there is not a thousand ways to do it. The way to do it is true user fees. It's true of tolls. And unfortunately the governments and the liberals during the campaign never mentioned this possibility. But if it's not possible to do it otherwise, if the kinds of billions of dollars that the government wants to be able to leverage in order to create these infrastructure projects, if it's not possible otherwise, it has to be done somehow. Either you do it by borrowing money and putting us further in debt as a nation or you find some other creative way. So this is another creative way of doing it?

GUY CARON: Actually, you're right, because those are the two possibilities. Now, what they said during the campaign is that they would take advantage of the historically low level of interest rates to actually invest in infrastructure. Everybody understood that the government would actually do undertake small deficits to invest in infrastructure. This is what people voted for. Now if you are going to ask the private sector to contribute, they will actually ask for a rate of return. Michael Sabia of the Caisse du depot en placement, who's actually a member of that advisory council that recommended the infrastructure bank, actually talks openly of the rate of return of seven to nine percent. Now if you are going in that direction, you'll be paying a lot more as either a user or a taxpayer than if the government borrows at the current rates of three to four percent. So those infrastructure over a lifetime of 30, 40 years will end up costing twice as much as they would if the government was itself investing. In the end, the citizens will either pay for user fees or tolls or they will pay through taxes and the taxes will actually be cheaper.

CO: The plan is to spend 186 billion dollars on infrastructure over the next 12 years. So are you proposing that $186 billion dollars should be borrowed?

Much much of it is actually money that was already announced and was already in the government budget. But what I'm saying is that the extra money that was proposed, the extra funds that were proposed, especially during the campaign, because that's what the Liberals promised. They said that they would be taking advantage of the low interest rates and they would actually be borrowing to do it. We never discussed the privatization of the revenue streams of infrastructure. We never actually debated tolls and user fees during the campaign. Yet it seems that the Liberals want to to make us make us think that this is unavoidable. It is avoidable. We have other choices and it's really unfortunate that the Liberals are not actually looking at what they promised during the campaign.

CO: So what do you think has changed. I mean first of all there's a couple of interesting things aren't there. First is that the economy is not doing as well as they had projected. And secondly, we're now into a very unpredictable relationship with our largest trade partner.

GUY CARON: I think what's changed is they started especially in talking to some of the large private equity funds who are trying to invest and get the rate of return but they can't. When you in some countries have a negative interest rate it makes it difficult to actually grow your portfolio at a significant rate. One thing that ensures them a stable source of return is actually infrastructure. And all the contacts that the Prime Minister did and that continued after especially with Laurence Fink of BlackRock, which actually hosted the meeting today in Toronto, opened up that possibility for the government to basically get through this scheme which is a public-private partnership but really on steroids. And this is coming from the discussions that they had, but it was never promised, never discussed during the campaign.

CO: OK just quickly, why is Blackrock so problematic in your view? Just mention that Blackrock Inc. is the private equity fund that hosted the meetings today and seems to want to get involved in this kind of investment. What problem do you have with that company?

GUY CARON: Well it's the privatization of our infrastructure. If you are telling people that you know the CPP and the kids at the point de placement will actually invest, people will have a different idea because they will see, well this is for my retirement, so they might actually accept the idea. But if you are going to give a rate of return of seven to nine percent to Blackrock or to any other private equity. And let's not forget that if you are opening the possibility for BlackRock to invest, you're going to have to start opening the possibility for Australian, European, Saudi and Chinese funds to also invest in thid infrastructure. So are we going to keep control of those infrastructures when you have the private sector investing 80 percent of the capital? It's going to be hard to argue that the federal government will still have the control of infrastructures that are and should remain public.

CO: All right. I don't think this is the last time we're going to talk about this.

GUY CARON: I guess not. You're probably right about that.

CO: That's right. Mr. Caron, thank you.

GUY CARON: Thank you.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Guy Caron is the NDP finance critic. We reached him in Ottawa.

[Music]

Gwen Ifill Obit

Coming up in just a few minutes on As It Happens,

SOUNDCLIP

You've got mail.

JEFF DOUGLAS: That guy. A voice that may be so familiar to some of you. Elwood Edwards, the voice of AOL's email notification service. These days, unsurprisingly, he's got a new gig using more modern technology. He is an Uber driver in Ohio. He was spotted after a passenger realized that she was getting a lift from one of the most famous voices in the world. So we're going to catch up with Elwood later. And we're also going to hear from you. After our tribute to Leonard Cohen.

On Friday, many of you shared with us what his music and his words meant to you. We're going to read some of those e-mails and we'll also hear an excerpt from an interview that Leonard Cohen gave in the twilight of his life. That and some more stuff coming up on As It Happens.

[Music]

JD: On the day that Barack Obama was inaugurated as president in January of 2009, Gwen Ifill published a book. The American journalist had moderated the 2004, 2008 vice presidential debates for PBS and she went on to become co-anchor for NewsHour there. And the book that she released was about the emergence of a group of black politicians in the U.S. All of them children of the civil rights movement. The book was called The Breakthrough, Politics and Race in the Age of Obama, and Obama's victory was a breakthrough, she said. But she disputed the claim that it was evidence of a post-racial America. Gwen Ifill died today at a hospice in Washington. Her friends said she had been diagnosed with cancer. She was 61 years old. Nine days after that inauguration in 2009, Ms. Ifill delivered a lecture at Google about her book. What she said was prescient. Here's a clip.

SOUNDCLIP

GWEN IFILL: Even the folks who are breaking through are struggling with the tactics, and trying to take a few steps forward before they get knocked several steps back. I don't... I caution against us thinking that this is the great transformation. It's a continuum and we have to go over a pretty shallow curve before we get to where we might end up. But it's a challenge to me to figure out where we're going to end up and I don't know yet. If someone... Al Sharpton actually said to me, "you know this isn't the big deal this breakthrough stuff, because I've seen this before. I've been at this party before." Well his point was there had been a whole generation of black mayors who came of age with great hopes in the 1960s and 70s, and that many of them just faded out and fizzed out and were replaced by white candidates right after. Some of them arrested, actually. But his point was this is nothing new. I think what he is missing is that these folks didn't come to power because someone carved something out for them. They came to power not because there was a machine that was created to get them elected and support them. They came to power more actually in the Harold Washington model, which is how do I reach beyond where my traditional base is. And because of that, they have strong... they have something stronger to fall back on. The Al Sharpton's of the world, by the way, believe themselves to be continually relevant because, well first of all he played this very well. He quietly talked to Obama but stayed out of the spotlight and did it on purpose because he knew it would hurt. He also believes that he continues to exist as a valuable agitator from the outside. And I don't have any problem with there being an agitator from the outside. Someone's got to hold someone's feet to the fire. I don't trust any one person to know what's best for everybody at all the time. But the funny... there was a funny moment that got overlooked. Largely this campaign on Saturday Night Live. It was a... one of those Robert Smigel cartoons, one of those animated sketches, and it was about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. And it had the cartoon characters of Jackson and Sharpton attempting to get into Obama events. Sharpton was fitted with a collar that would shock him every time he arrived at the gate. And whenever Jackson showed up, the Michelle character would throw up on someone's shoes to distract and then Jackson would be taken into a closet by Obama who would say, "I'm going to make you my ambassador to lower Xubutu." And it would take weeks before Jackson realized there was no such place. It was hilarious but it showed definitely how he had managed to stiff-arm these guys without alienating them and minimize any damage they may have caused.

FEMALE VOICE: Thank you.

GWEN IFILL: Hi.

FEMALE VOICE: Hello. I don't really have a question, but I have more of a statement.

GWEN IFILL: That always scares me when people start this way.

[Sound: Audience laughter]

FEMALE VOICE: So first of all, thank you for coming to Google, but moreover, here is the statement. I wanted to thank you for the example you've set over the years, that has 30 years.

GWEN IFILL: We don't really talk about the numbers that much.

[Sound: laughter]

FEMALE VOICE: Because I know that you're speaking about Obama and these other people who have made impact in the African-American community as examples. But I look to you as a great example and I just wanted to say thank you for that because when I saw the vice presidential debates I wasn't just looking at Palin, Biden, Biden, Palin, Palin Palin, whatever that was. I was looking at you. I was looking at how you moderate it. I was thinking... just feeling inspired about, how step by step, you've reached that goal and how you had that poise, how you have even here this relation relational sense about you. The way you know, you...

GWEN IFILL: This is my sister.

[Sound: laughter]

FEMALE VOICE: So anyway I just want to say that because even today to come here, I was just so excited that, you know, I thought you were in San Francisco. I was so bummed. I was like, "why is she in San Francisco?" And then to know that you're here. I was just so encouraged So just to know that you are making impact in lives as well. Thank you.

GWEN IFILL: Thank you.

[Sound: applause]

MALE VOICE: So you spoke a little bit about race and gender, and I was hoping you would speak a little bit about sexuality. And especially with this past election, with so many individual state ballot measures that took away rights from a large proportion of the population. And I was hoping you would just comment a little bit about how that community is now, you know, forming this whole civil rights movement, and how you sort of see it developing, and what this new movement can learn from other movements like it.

GWEN IFILL: It's a good question. I have to say I didn't get into it in the book and I am of many minds about whether we're going to hear that much about it from this administration. You take his theory and how he got elected and you extend it logically to issues of sexuality and you begin to realize that what he's doing, what he has done up until now... let's divide it between pre-inauguration and post-inauguration. He wouldn't do anything to alienate anybody in the mainstream. Let's be clear. He wouldn't even talk about black issues if he didn't have to, so he certainly wasn't talking about gay issues, and he certainly wasn't talking about anything that we mean these mainstream voters, so he had to persuade to listen to him. Now as a result, things like Prop 8 happened. I mean that's something that with a strong national push would have probably gotten different attention. But he wasn't... I don't think Barack Obama was ever going to be the person who's going to make that in the same way that he's not, as I write, the kind of person who puts his fist in the air, he wasn't going to go out on any limbs he didn't have to go out on to. There's a certain reason in that because you are not going to get, you know, he's not going to get elected. You know what you're getting with Bush. You didn't know what you're getting with Obama. But you take the stranger sometimes. Now that election has happened, it's really interesting to watch him recalibrate what the risks are he's willing to take. In his interview the other day with Muslim Television. This is a man who didn't ever admit he ever knew any Muslims during the election. Now he's like, 'yeah, you know, some of my family is there, and you know, my dad.' And I'm thinking, 'what? Wait, wait.' Really? So we may find out who his gay relatives are any minute now. But I have to say I had not heard him speak more than in a rote fashion about it so I'd wait and hold his feet to the fire, which is what you have to do, even with the people you support.¸

That was journalist Gwen Ifill speaking at Google in January of 2009. Gwen Ifill died today. She was 61 years old.

[Music]

You`ve Got Mail

Guest: Elwood Edwards

JEFF DOUGLAS: When you only ever hear someone's voice, you come up with your own mental image of what that person looks like. So it's weird when you actually meet the person, especially if you pictured his head as a computer monitor. Last weekend in Ohio, a passenger struck up a conversation with her Uber driver. And as the conversation went on, he revealed his claim to fame: he was the voice behind AOL's famous, famous e-mail greeting, "you've got mail." His name is Elwood Edwards. We reached him in Lakewood, Ohio.

CAROL OFF: Mr. Elword. First of all, we need you to say it.

ELWOOD EDWARDS: Welcome. You've got mail.

CO: How many people do you think have heard you say that?

ELWOOD EDWARDS: I know at one point, I think was around 2001, in that general area, you know it was said that they had approximated that 35 million people heard me every day.

CO: Every single day. And do people recognize your voice? Do they know that you're the 'You've Got Mail' guy?

ELWOOD EDWARDS: It's not something that I go around telling everybody, but if it comes up in conversation, you know, and things like that, then generally they do remember.

CO: And now, how did you get this gig, to be the voice of "you've got mail?"

ELWOOD EDWARDS: Well I've moved from North Carolina to the Washington D.C. area in 1985 and I met my wife. We were married in 88 and she was a customer service rep at a company called Quantum Computer Services. She and I met online on Commodore 64 computers using the Q-Link service, and she overheard Steve Case, and he's the one who actually started America Online. She overheard him talking to the programmers about the idea of adding a voice to the software. She volunteered me. And on a cassette deck in my living room, I recorded those phrases. She took the cassette back to work with her. They digitized it, and it was supposed to be just a test but it caught on. And to this day, if you go to AOL dot com and you have an e-mail account, you'll hear me say, "you've got mail."

CO: But now, what is it about your voice, because it's not like a computer generated sounding voice, it's not an anonymous... it's an interesting voice. It has idiosyncrasies to it. Why do you think that they liked your recording?

ELWOOD EDWARDS: You know I have often wondered about that, because there wasn't anybody else that they tried out for it. But they liked it. I've been an announcer most of my television career. And I guess there was just something to my voice that was friendly enough that it was what Steve was looking for.

CO: Now how much did you get paid for that gig.

ELWOOD EDWARDS: Well I'm just going to say that I have a great relationship with AOL.

CO: OK, they paid you well?

ELWOOD EDWARDS: I can't complain. I'm not retired. I don't own an island somewhere.

CO: But you're an Uber driver, an Uber cab driver.

ELWOOD EDWARDS: Well I've always liked driving, and I like meeting new people, and it was something I decided I was going to try. I've been doing it for a little more than a month. Somebody at work said, "Well, are you making a lot of money doing Uber?" I said, "I'm making beer money." That's about it.

CO: But it was one of your passengers who found out that you're the 'You've Got Mail' guy. How did how did that happen?

ELWOOD EDWARDS: Well she was in town and she wanted to go to the Clinton headquarters here in Cleveland. I told her you know I worked in television. I'm a news editor still, and I told her I was also an announcer. And I said you heard me but you haven't heard me on TV. And she said, "Well how have I heard you?" And I said, "Is this familiar? Welcome. You've got mail." And she went nuts. So she whipped out her phone and had me do it again. And that's what has been going viral, it's the thing she recorded on her phone.

CO: Why do you think so many people liked this story about the discovery of you and the Uber cab that you are the voice of AOL?

ELWOOD EDWARDS: I guess part of it is that I'm just a normal guy. There's nothing about me in my opinion anyway that makes me stand out from the crowd. I'm just a friendly guy. I like people. I like talking to people. And I don't know that I can really explain it.

CO: Well maybe it's because we're so surrounded now with these sort of pre-fabricated computer generated voices for everything. You never feel that a real human being is talking to you and that just maybe the pleasure of knowing that in fact you were a real person.

ELWOOD EDWARDS: Yeah, maybe that's it. That's that's not a bad explanation at all, actually.

CO: No, it's a pretty good one. You had some other things you said too. What are the other ones you said?

ELWOOD EDWARDS: I said, "Welcome. You've got mail. Files done. Goodbye.

CO: All right, we'll say "goodbye" to you too. And it's great talking to you, Elwood, Thank you.

ELWOOD EDWARDS: Thank you so much. Bye bye.

CO: Bye bye.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Elwood Edwards is the voice behind the AOL greeting, "You've got mail." We reached him in Lakewood, Ohio.

[Music]

Leonard Cohen Obit

JEFF DOUGLAS: A few months ago David Remnick had an audience with Leonard Cohen like no other. The editor of The New Yorker magazine sat down with the singer songwriter who died last week at 82. Over the course of a couple of days, Leonard Cohen was quite ill by then but he had just finished recording his latest album, You Want It Darker, and in a very candid exchange he shared with Mr. Remnick his secret for staying grounded in the twilight of life.

SOUNDCLIP

I like to tie up the strings. It's a cliché but it's underestimated as an analgesic on all levels. Putting your house in order is one of the most, if you can do it, one of the most comforting activities, and the benefits of it are incalculable. There's a great deal of new material that I haven't sorted out. 50 or 60 unpublished poems, there are songs halfway through are not bad. Listen to the hummingbird whose wings you cannot see. Listen to the bird, don't listen to me. Listen to the butterfly whose days are none but three. Listen to the butterfly. Don't listen to me. Listen to the mind of God which doesn't need to be, listen to the mind of God, don't listen to me. So that one is half way. I don't think I'll be able to finish those songs. Maybe I'll get a second wind, I don't know.

[Music: Leaving the Table / folk]

JEFF DOUGLAS: Leonard Cohen in conversation with David Remnick, editor of The New Yorker Magazine late this past summer. Leonard Cohen of course died a week ago today. He was 82 years old. And we received a lot of feedback from you for our coverage of Mr. Cohen's life and career on Friday. Here's some of what you had to say about the news of Mr. Cohen's death.

CO: Mavis Close of Penticton, BC wrote: "Being sad about our loss of a man with humility and full of gratitude towards others, Leonard Cohen. I am grateful to have enjoyed two of his live concerts. The first concert, on entering the venue, we were presented with a long stemmed rose. Beautiful. The polar opposite of a man encouraging and promoting hate to his followers, Donald Trump. Both happening within days is difficult."

JD: Goldie Watts of Toronto said: "I believe that people are not black and white; we are all complicated. There has never been an artist to tap into human psyche like Leonard Cohen. He was eloquent, classy, and deep. It's a great loss for Canada and the world. My heartwarming condolences to the family."

CO: And Sid Tafler of Victoria, BC shared this story: "Three years ago, I emailed Cohen, through his manager, asking for help with a fundraiser for a small downtown food bank in Victoria. I was hoping for a signed album cover that might attract fifty dollars at our auction. I mentioned my Montreal roots, and the bar we both frequented, although I didn't know Leonard. They agreed to send a limited edition print from his time on [the Greek Isle of] Hydra, and two signed photos. The three items earned nearly $5,000 at auction, about as much as we usually raise in a typical year. That's a lot of meals for the poor. Cohen's only connection to Victoria, as far as I knew, was his upcoming concert here as part of his world tour."

JD: Thanks to all of you who passed messages along. If you couldn't catch the show on Friday, it is available to stream on our website at cbc.ca/aih. You'll also find our feature interview with Judy Collins, on how she persuaded Cohen - then a young and shy poet ‑ to take to the stage and sing. Plus an interview with a good friend of the woman who inspired one of Leonard Cohen's most cherished songs, So Long Marianne.

[Music: Leaving the Table / folk]

JD: And we are going to let Mr. Cohen take us out tonight. This is Leaving the Table.

CO: We will be back again tomorrow. I'm Carol Off. Good night.

JD: And I'm Jeff Douglas. Good evening.

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November 14th, 2016 episode transcript

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