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The Current Transcript for November 29, 2021

Host: Matt Galloway

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

There are new opening like beer and wine stores, and I played stores, but there are no like new openings, mental health facilities like we don't even have one.

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: The people in Nunavut have been losing loved ones to suicide far too often and for far too long. Over the past week, young people have taken to the streets of Iqaluit, demanding better supports in 30 minutes. I'll be speaking to two of those protesters who have lost family members to suicide, and then we'll be following up with the territory's new premier. Also this morning,

SOUNDCLIP

This is horrifying. I mean, such a person is missing. I mean, I don't know if it's true or not that she's found. And I mean, I really hope so because I mean, she's she was number one in the world, well known Chinese tennis players.

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: That's world number one tennis player Novak Djokovic talking about Chinese doubles player Peng Shuai, whether she's safe and free, is still up for international debate. We'll dig into what we know, what we don't and what it means for both the upcoming Olympics and the future of tennis in China. Plus, the long lost art of whistling is making a comeback. One track on Adele's new album features a whole whistling chorus. We'll see how it rates with a world champion known as the whistling diva. But we begin this morning in B.C. and the pipeline standoff reaching boiling point once again. I'm Robyn Bresnahan in for Matt Galloway and this is The Current.

[Music: Theme]

Protesters, journalists arrested at B.C. pipeline protest camp

Guests: Amanda Follett Hosgood, Grand Chief Stewart Phillip, Jeffrey Monaghan

RB: B.C. is already coping with flooded out homes and highways with more rain in the forecast. On top of all that, a pipeline protest is heating up once again. At least 29 people were arrested last week as the RCMP enforced an injunction against those trying to stop the Coastal GasLink pipeline. Jennifer Wickham is the media coordinator for the Gidimt'en Checkpoint. Her sister, Sleydo', was one of those arrested.

SOUNDCLIP

This is not the first time that my sister has been arrested for standing up what is right for standing up for her children and for standing up for all the communities that are down river from which to Indian territory. And you know, we know that we're on the right side of history, and it's really frustrating that indigenous women are being criminalised. This is something that has not changed in over a hundred years, and we're still seeing it today.

RB: The pipeline project is being built in Wet'suwet'en territory. Members say they are simply evicting Coastal GasLink from their land. It's a dispute that has already been simmering for over two years. Amanda Follett Hosgood is the northern B.C. reporter for the online newsmagazine The Tyee, and we've reached her at her home in Smithers, B.C.. Amanda, good morning. Thanks for joining us.

AMANDA FOLLETT HOSGOOD: Hi, Robyn.

RB: You were at the bail hearings yesterday for those arrested. How many people have been released? How many are still in jail?

AMANDA FOLLETT HOSGOOD: Mm hmm. Well, I actually called in to the bail hearing hearings. I'm at my home in Smithers on Wet'suwet'en territory, but there are, I believe, 10 still in custody, 10 were released yesterday and 10 people were released on Thursday, the day that they were arrested.

RB: You were at the checkpoint when RCMP moved in to make the arrests. Can you describe what happened?

AMANDA FOLLETT HOSGOOD: So I arrived on Thursday about mid-morning and RCMP told me that they'd started clearing the road into two work camps that have been cut off by by blockades at about eight a.m. that morning. So when I arrived at about 10:30, the arrests had just happened 44 kilometres down the Maori West Forest Service Road and RCMP were processing the 15 people that had been arrested, and they were working on repairing the road and getting it opened.

RB: What was the atmosphere like between those defending the land and the RCMP?

AMANDA FOLLETT HOSGOOD: Well, it was hard to. I wasn't right in the middle of the action when I arrived. RCMP were originally not going to allow me access, and after I kind of dug in my heels, they agreed to let me in with an RCMP escort. So I was there but was escorted around by an RCMP officer. I did at one point glance behind me and see a journalist that I know being processed by by an RCMP officer, which was a little bit surprising. And I think everybody's heard about two more journalists being arrested on Friday. So there's there's definitely a sense of frustration at the level of foreigners being used.

RB: In terms of level of force, what do you mean by that?

AMANDA FOLLETT HOSGOOD: Well, again, I was a little ways back from the action on Thursday. The journalist that was arrested that day was frustrated that she felt like she was targeted because she was videoing what was happening. She was telling RCMP as she was being arrested, that she was media. But they arrested her anyway and prevented her from doing her job. By the end of the day on Thursday, the road was opened into those two Coastal GasLink work camps, which was really the stated goal of the RCMP action. They called it a rescue mission. They wanted to get in, open the road to the work camps and make sure that supplies to those camps were flowing. The following day, you know, those supplies were flowing. And what they targeted was another camp. And this is where Molly Wickham Sleydo was staying. There was another camp off the main road that was not blocking access to those work camps, but was blocking access to an important work site for the pipeline where Coastal GasLink is planning to drill under the Maori River. And reports on social media on Friday from those in that camp where the police were coming in and breaking down the door of a cabin with an axe, they had police dogs. They were pointing their guns as they came in, and it's just felt that it's been there's been a lot of overstep by RCMP in enforcing this injunction.

RB: What are you hearing from the community right now about all of this?

AMANDA FOLLETT HOSGOOD: There's a lot of division in the community is the truth. There's frustration at the RCMP, there's frustration at multiple levels of government that more isn't being said and done. And I think there's a lot of feelings. But you know, we need to be working with the Wet'suwet'en on their on their land claims, on their rights and title, the big picture issues that haven't been addressed literally for four decades. While these permits are still issued and while injunctions are issued because of those permits allowing industry and RCMP to go in and remove these indigenous land, defenders.

RB: Our listeners probably will remember some of the protests that took place right before the pandemic. Things have been a little bit quiet since then. But the injunction and the protest camps, they've been there for some time now, and some people are questioning the timing of of these arrests by police saying that, you know, last week, B.C. declared a state of emergency. There were people in dire need of help in the south of the province, and RCMP chose to send dozens of officers north to make these arrests. What do you make of the timing of all of this?

AMANDA FOLLETT HOSGOOD: I've heard that. I've heard that complaint. And of course, it's difficult for journalists up here in the North, it's difficult to get any answers out of government because everybody is so focussed on the flooding happening in the South. You know, I guess. It's really tricky. The road into the work camps was closed. Supplies were running low and something had to give. I know that there was a lot of options looked at, but there was also warning given to Coastal GasLink and to the province that that road was going to close. I'm told by the Wet'suwet'en that 10 hours notice was given and they closed the road once they saw that that eviction notice wasn't being heeded, that people weren't being evacuated from the camp. So definitely a complex situation, and it's hard to it's hard to really point fingers.

RB: Amanda, I really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.

AMANDA FOLLETT HOSGOOD: Thanks, Robyn.

RB: That's Amanda Follett Hosgood. She's the northern B.C. reporter for the online news magazine The Tyee. We reached her in Smithers. The arrests have drawn criticism from indigenous leaders across the province. Grand Chief Stewart Phillip is the president of the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs Grand Chief. Good morning to you.

GRAND CHIEF STEWART PHILLIP: Good morning.

RB: What's your reaction to the arrests made by RCMP last week?

GRAND CHIEF STEWART PHILLIP: Well, without question, we're absolutely appalled, were disgusted and absolutely outraged at the at the underhanded fashion in which she urged him. He conducted this operation. They did it under the cover of the catastrophic flooding that's going on in British Columbia, when the general public's attention was completely focussed on those legitimate rescue operations that were going on to save stranded people and and so on and so forth. And also utilising important resources that were needed, desperately needed for a defining event were sent north in a in a very stealth fashion to raid these camps. What we find deeply disturbing is the paramilitary tactics that the RCMP have been using for the last couple of years against resource development and opposition on the part of indigenous people and British Columbians at large who take issue with, for example, the old growth forestry and in Ferry Creek. The fact that the RCMP equipped themselves in full military gear, assault weapons, military assault weapons, using heavy equipment and attack dogs is just absolutely outrageous. It's bizarre. The RCMP is primary function is to keep the peace.

RB: Grand Chief, can I just ask you- sorry to interrupt - just about what you've said about the timing of this, this being underhanded. Because reporters asked BC's Public Safety Minister and Solicitor General Mike Farnworth about the timing of these arrests this past Saturday. Let's just take a listen to what he had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: Minister, can you explain to British Columbians why during this natural disaster, the RCMP, along with helicopters, have been sent to this isolated logging road in the north of the province.

MIKE FARNWORTH: There is a court injunction that is in place that the court has ordered enforced operational decisions on that are made by the RCMP and they are not made by myself a solicitor general.

RB: Grand Chief Stewart Phillip, what do you make of that answer that the RCMP was simply enforcing a court injunction?

GRAND CHIEF STEWART PHILLIP: Well, I don't buy that for a moment. The injunction has been in place for for quite some time now. There's no question the timing was done in that fashion because RCMP and Solicitor General Atwal knew that the focus would be on the catastrophic flooding and the aftermath, and they went in and full military style and took down these camps. The RCMP, its primary function is to maintain the peace and their waterways actually maintain the right to protect the fundamental rights of Canadians and to keep the peace. They've become corporate goon squads for oil and gas, for forestry, for for large energy projects, and that's absolutely appalling.

RB: I should say that we have asked the B.C. RCMP for comment on this. We have not heard back. All we did hear in a press release was that this was a rescue mission for Coastal GasLink workers that were trapped. There have also been questions about whether Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and B.C. Premier John Horgan are in all of this. What would you like to hear from them?

GRAND CHIEF STEWART PHILLIP: Well, you know, there's no question that the RCMP are completely out of control in regard to the escalating militarisation of the force. And something needs to be done to provide some type of oversight to prevent that from happening. I think the the brutal treatment that the protesters, primarily seniors received at Fairy Creek is a prime example and the RCMP just completely abandoning any sense of responsibility for keeping the peace and treating protesters with the sense of dignity. They totally manhandling true people around. We're very, very violent, and that's not what the RCMP is supposed to be about. They are supposed to stand by and keep the peace, not develop the legal exclusion zones and come in in the fashion that they have. They need to be reined in. We need new leadership at the top of the RCMP chain of command to bring this situation under control. Otherwise, it's going to spark national and international solidarity protests.

RB: Grand Chief, I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you. Thank you. That was Grand Chief Stewart Phillip. He's the president of the Union of B.C. Indian chiefs. Well, my next guest says the arrests over the weekend were disappointing, but not surprising. Jeffrey Monaghan is an associate professor at the Institute of Criminology and Criminal Justice at Carleton University. He's the co-author of the book Policing, Indigenous Movements, Descent and the Security State, and We have reached him in Ottawa. Jeffrey, good morning.

JEFFREY MONAGHAN: Good morning. Robyhn.

RB: Why weren't you surprised by the arrests over the weekend?

JEFFREY MONAGHAN: Well, this was the. And that the police have done over the last three years against the Wet'suwet'en, who are blockading these roads in this gas pipeline development. So, you know, conflict and the kind of antagonisms have been kind of simmering for a couple of weeks. So it's not necessarily surprising. The last two raids that happened in these territories sparked international criticism in a national debate about the RCMP and or their tactics for enforcing these injunctions. And I think some of us who've been watching over the years would have expected that there would be some lessons learnt from the RCMP about how poorly their actions were interpreted and seen by the country and the world. And unfortunately, there hasn't really been much of a difference, except this time they seem to be using more canine and arresting journalists in a way kind of engaging in kind of worst practises in the last two raids. But given the fact that these last two raids have happened in a lot of the kind of simmering conflict that has been in some ways not de-escalated but escalated by the RCMP, it's not surprising to see that this happened.

RB: From a legal standpoint. What do you make of these injunctions? RCMP enforcing them as requested by the company in this case Coastal GasLink, not the Canadian government.

JEFFREY MONAGHAN: Yeah, injunctions are absolutely at kind of the the first step of the problem as part of this conflict in Wet'suwet'en territory for several years has been, you know, I think the underlying problem is that the company and certainly the. The B.C. government is supporting the company in the federal government has kind of been hiding. But the company has made a very calculated strategic decision to sign agreements with the elected Indian Act chief. Take those agreements to the hereditary chiefs and say, kind of sign here or else we're going to apply for an injunction. And I think that the calculation of this decision, it was done on the basis that even though Canadian law, the Supreme Court, you know, we understand that the hereditary chiefs have the authority over the non reserved territories. They knew this, but they decided to go with what was perceived as the easier route. And because of that, this injunction problem arises from those decisions. And unfortunately, you know, the RCMP and their relationship in the territories is very fractured and they have a strong relationship with the company. But because of their previous raids, because of their regular lack of engaging in more wholesome, good faith kind of negotiations, they've been unable to kind of bridge or men any kind of solutions to the problem. So they're mixed right in and their position is virtually indistinguishable, indistinguishable from the companies. And they're simply relying on injunctions to try and move this forward instead of negotiation.

RB: As you've done a lot of writing about this, when you look at the policing approach in B.C. towards indigenous protest movements compared to others, for example, protests against vaccination mandates. What differences do you see?

JEFFREY MONAGHAN: Well, I think one of the key features to understand the differences is that. Specifically, indigenous groups and especially indigenous groups that are standing up to the extraction or resource development are often labelled as criminal, far ahead of any kind of protest. So they're under surveillance. They're under scrutiny. They're categorised as potentially criminal and that entire process. Put in place these kinds of wheels de-legitimize the political claims that these groups have. And that's absolutely what's happening in Wet'suwet'en territory. The still in camp in particular, has been demonised and de-legitimize as extremists, as criminals for many years within RCMP documents, within RCMP, their own kind of institutional communications. And this trickles down right down to kind of the front lines and the rank and file members who see the protesters as the problem and not the politicians or the corporations who have kind of botched the process and mete out all kinds of retributive punishment on the ground, which we're certainly seeing right now, certainly happened in Fairy Creek as well. You know, it was only a couple of months ago where B.C. RCMP officers were showing up with thin blue line patches on on their gear and when rank and file officers. This is supported by the RCMP union. Think that you know the the the police are this line between civilisation and savagery and that this protest and whatever kind of remote community they're in is that point that they're defending, you know, social values. I think that that's a really troublesome situation for the RCMP in terms of their own kind of colonial culture. And it's also not a way that we're going to de-escalate these conflicts and return to a position where we can actually negotiate. And here are the demands from the Wet'suwet'en community and the land defenders who are there to be able to move this process forward. The last two rounds have absolutely shown the police power police force is not going to resolve this problem after the blockades of last year. If you recall or two years ago, my dates are mixed up. There is national blockades that happen after these raids. The federal government got dragged in. There was a commitment to engage in the land, the land claim title process, engage in a kind of more fulsome debate, and that's gone nowhere. So I think we're back here in a situation where the company and the police who have a kind of unified position, right, are able to kind of drive this process forward. And we're in the same now.

RB: Okay. Well, Jeffrey, it was good to talk to you. Thank you very much for your perspective this morning.

JEFFREY MONAGHAN: Anytime. Thanks.

RB: That's Jeffrey Monaghan, an associate professor at the Institute of Criminology and Criminal Justice at Carleton University. We reached him in Ottawa. The CBC News is coming up next, and then we will be talking about Canada's North. It's had a mental health crisis for a long time, and young people living in Nunavut have had enough in six minutes. I'll talk to two activists and the new premier about what's being called a suicide crisis. I'm Robyn Bresnahan and you're listening to The Current.

Iqaluit teens demand more support for people struggling with mental health

Guests: Amy Ullikatar, Deion Pearce, Premier Akeeagok

RB: Hello. I'm Robyn Bresnahan, and you're listening to The Current.

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RB: Still to come, Olympic officials and Chinese authorities claim tennis star Peng Shuai is safe and free. The Women's Tennis Association is not yet convinced. In just under 30 minutes, we'll take you through what we know about what happened to the former world number one in women's doubles. But first, the mental health crisis claiming lives in Canada's north.

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SOUNDCLIP

Young people there are voices, , that's the whole world. What we have to say about how we live and how bad things get, so we always try to look on the bright side. But as of right now, there is no bright side. And we need to do something to change that. And you know, I'm really hoping this protest will get us somewhere, get our voices heard. And I'm really happy you guys came along. Thank you for your good support.

[Cheers]

RB: Young people in Iqaluit marched last week from their high school to Nunavut's Legislature, when that protester says he wants the world to know how bad things get. He is referring to the territory's suicide crisis. Nunavut has the highest suicide rate in Canada, nearly 10 times the national average, and that protest was a call to the newly elected government to do something about it. In a moment, we'll hear from none of its new premier. But first, I am joined by Deion Pearce, one of the protest organisers, and Amy Ullikatar, Qatar, who took part in the protest. Good morning to you, both!

AMY ULLIKATAR: Good morning.

DEION PEARCE: Good morning,

RB: Dieon. It's one thing to say that Nunavut has the highest suicide rate, but it must be quite another to live it. I wonder what impact has this had on you personally?

DEION PEARCE: Personally, it has a like a very big impact. It has actually taken away many great people that I have looked up to and that I've been close to in my life and. It's saddening to see that nothing has been done for so long.

RB: Can you tell us about someone you've lost in your life, Deion

DEION PEARCE: For one, I can start with my grandma. She was like literally everything. And she she didn't really mean to die the way she did, but she had an addiction. Which can lead to things.

RB: I'm so sorry.

DEION PEARCE: It's OK.

RB: When you say that she meant everything to you, can you tell me a bit about her?

DEION PEARCE: I looked up to her as like my mom. Some days my mom wouldn't be here and I'd go to her place or like she would just try to teach me everything she could.

RB: How did you deal with that, when your grandmother died? What did you do?

DEION PEARCE: Not much, really. Just cried. I don't really- I didn't talk about it. And I really still don't. But it's just hard for me to. It's hard for me to talk about it.

RB: Do you feel like things are changing now that especially with this protest last week, that more people are having a conversation about it, Deion?

DEION PEARCE: Oh yeah, definitely. It's really great to see that all the support we have and like all the meetings with the group that we have going on and all the planning we're doing, and they like the attention we have right now from the families and the premier and even Jagmeet Singh we we heard from Jadmeet Singh earlier this morning,

RB: The leader of the NDP. What did he say?

DEION PEARCE: He was on the radio saying that it is one of his top priorities and he really notices what's going on. And one of his main goals is to help us federally with what we're doing.

RB: Amy, you joined in the protest last week. I wonder if you could tell us how close this suicide crisis, how close to home does it hit for you?

AMY ULLIKATAR: Well, as someone, whose experience, you know, losing a loved one to suicide, it's kind of hard. I would say that like, you know, if you grew up here or like if you're raised here or like, if we were born here or if you lived here for like a long period of time, I'm pretty sure that you would experience losing a loved one to suicide, which kind of hurts because like, you know, growing up, I had two uncles that were twins and, you know, I was pretty young when he committed suicide. So, I don't have that many memories with him. But like a kind of hurts to see the results of like how, like a person's life meant so much to another person's life. Because like, I can see my uncles like.,The other twin that's still alive, he drinks his pain away. I'm like, it kind of hurts to see that. But, you know, at the same time, like there's no other way that he knows how to cope. And obviously I do want to help him. I do want him to get the proper help that he needs to get over his flaws because they're twins and he lost his twin to suicide, which kind of sad, you know?

RB: Deion you have said that there is a real lack of support for youth in Nunavut who are struggling that even you don't know how to cope properly, that sometimes you don't turn to the right things? You just heard Amy say that her one of her uncles drinks away his pain. I mean, how do you find that people cope without the supports?

DEION PEARCE: I find far too many people cope the wrong ways. And like there are new opening like beer and wine stores and like weed stores, but there are no like new opening mental health facilities like we don't even have one never. I, of course, we know that like the help lines and whatever Nunavut has right now is really great, but we really would love to see a lot more actual in Nunavut based like facilities and stuff and more or less permanent professionals that come and live or stay in Nunavut longer because some professionals here they come here. And when a kid talks to that professional, then that professional goes away like that kid thinks like, what the heck? Who am I going to talk to now? I was comfortable talking with that person, and then they just left.

RB: So it's really only short term.

DEION PEARCE: Yeah. All of it really is practically short term. Yeah.

RB: Dieon, what do you think is at the root of this suicide crisis, where does it stem from?

DEION PEARCE: I think the root cause might be from intergenerational trauma, like my thought personally. But there also are definitely a lot more factors like insufficient housing and like even just the water crisis here right now. There's also not to be rude or anything, but there's places for young people to go at night. Then there's places for like homeless people to go at night. Not enough, actually. But there is some places, but there's no places for youth that are open at night time and youth are wandering the streets, freezing, literally freezing, because they don't want to be home.

RB: They don't want to be home because?

DEION PEARCE: Just a lot of the home situations are like overly crowded homes that are just not a safe place to be, most of the time.

RB: Amy, your new premier is listening on the line. I'm going to be talking to him next. What do you want to say to him?

AMY ULLIKATAR: Well, I would just like to say that as a youth, you know, I view future, I would like to see more funding to go to mental health programmes and I would like for the government, our government to focus on the housing here, because like the onset, like most of the houses here are overcrowded and like, it's kind of disappointing to see that because, you know, obviously I thought you've got the support right there because. The government says that if they can help us, they would, but. You know, like Deion said, there's a lot of overcrowded houses. I would like to see housing to be fixed because I wouldn't want to see any more youths out there just trying to walk around because they don't want to be home.

RB: Deion, where do you see hope right now?

DEION PEARCE: Right now, a group that I am working with, like we see some hope when we eventually get contact with the families and the premium, but we see some hope at the federal level right now because Jagmeet Singh has noticed us. We don't know if they Justin Trudeau or like any of those other people have noticed us either, but we know Jagmeet Singh has. So that's really amazing to see.

RB: Just finally, Deion, when you were taking part in the protests that you helped organise last week. How were you thinking about your grandmother as you were marching?

DEION PEARCE: Whenever I do think about my grandmother, I think of what I could have done to help her, but during the protest, I was thinking like what we're doing. And if she saw what we were doing, she would have been really proud. And I know she is really proud.

RB: I'm sorry for the loss that you've experienced in your life, both Amy and Deion and I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us this morning. Thank you.

AMY ULLIKATAR: You're welcome.

DEION PEARCE: No problem. Thank you for giving us this opportunity.

RB: It was Deion Pearce and Amy Ullikatar are in Iqaluit. If you are experiencing emotional distress and want to talk, the hope for wellness number is 1855 242 3310,. For help in Inuktitut, if you're in Iqaluit, you can call 1867 979 3333 or toll free from Nunavik or Nunavut outside Iqaluit at 1800 263 3333. Well, let's speak now to none of its newly elected premier. He is P.J. Akeeagok and he has been listening in to the conversation with Amy and Deion. Premier. Good morning!

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: Good morning, Robyn.

RB: First of all, what were you thinking as you were hearing Amy and Deion talk?

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: Oh, absolutely. I am obviously very open, and I'm so proud of both Diane and Amy for sharing such important topics that we all face in Nunavut, and it's something I was so proud to have witnessed and to march alongside the youth here last week when they marched into the Legislature and to their house and really to allow as new members coming in to the issues that you are bringing forward and really the solutions that they bring. It's our time to truly listen.

RB: You say you feel proud of Deion and Amy. Is there any part of you that also feels frustrated, perhaps angry that these young people have people in their lives who have died by suicide and by all accounts? Almost everyone who lives in Nunavut knows someone who has died by suicide.

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: Yes, Robyn, we know that things need to change and that the suicide pandemic can't continue. And really, I think both Deion and Amy brought really what's at the root of them in terms of accessibility to services in our language and our culture, but also the housing crisis that we face in the territory, but also investments in early childhood education, more attention and more action and not just words, but actual tangible solutions needed to hit home now, in terms of the crisis that we're faced with. So I very much look forward to preparing our government to truly tackle the root cause of one crisis that we've been in in terms of the suicide crisis.

RB: Mm-Hmm. What did you think when you heard Deion say, there are no places for youth to go at night, that there are people who are literally freezing, that there are not the same support for youth as there are for other parts of the population?

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: So, yeah, absolutely. So obviously, there's hasn't been any mental health facility for either addictions or trauma treatment with intergenerational trauma that we've witnessed for decades. So with the trauma treatment centre, that is something our government has pushed for many years. I, with my previous role as the president for Single Family Association, that's something we've pushed extremely hard as well, that there has to be adequate facilities that allow not only their ability to access these services that are crucial, that are critical. So we very much look forward to to see in that facility bill. It was just recently announced this year. So we very much look forward to working with our partners to see the fruition of that facility. And with no novel covering a large land mass with 25 communities right across, we obviously very much look forward to providing services to every community. So that's something that will continue to to work with both the accessibility and the services that we could provide [unintelligible].

RB: what can you do in the interim? Because that Addiction and Mental Health Treatment Centre is not scheduled to open until 2025? You're in a crisis right now, as you heard, Diane, say that there are counsellors, but they stay for a short time. They listen and then there's no follow up after that. I mean, what can you do in the interim until there are some more solid supports?

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: I truly believe that we have an opportunity in terms of providing services, and that's something as a premier, I will commit to making this a priority. And with no on the vast territory, I very much look forward to working with our partners, both incorporated but also with the federal government. I am sure they have always believed that in true partnership, we really could come to the table with true solutions and I very much look forward to working both with Prime Minister Trudeau, but also with Minister Bennett, who holds a very important portfolio in this government.

RB: What do those mental health supports ideally look like to you? Would they be Inuit led or at this point, is it such a crisis that it doesn't matter as long as somebody is is trained and comes in to to offer those supports?

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: Language and culture play a big role. And with the suicide rate for India being 10 times higher than the national average. Services must be and respect that language and culture. And I truly believe there's some amazing organisations we've worked with, whether it's [unintelligible] who provide counselling services. And obviously as a government coming in, I will be exploring all options. I think with this crisis that has been going on for decades before, I'm very optimistic and I'm filled with so much hope that the solutions are right there.

RB: What about elders in the community? What role do you see them playing when it comes to helping support youth and none of it?

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: They are always at the heart of any decision we do. We respect our elders and involve them in anything we've done. I've been very fortunate to have been guided and mentored by elders. I hold them to the highest regard and I really see them playing a central role as we tackle the suicide crisis that we see here in our territory.

RB: You are a young man yourself. You're thirty seven years old, the new premier of Nunavut. What is your fear if you don't get this right?

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: Yeah, and I'm actually filled with so much hope. I really see all the members that were elected into the sixth assembly, and I look across as my deputy premier, Dennis Ross, who is also the education minister, truly inspires me. I really see so much hope and so much opportunity to for us to be able to make tangible investments in areas that are. I obviously come to this premiership, having served for seven years as an elected official in a regional Inuit organisation, so I really bring a wealth of experience coming into this role. But I have always looked on any issue and tackle any issue head on. But in true partnership, though, I understand we can't do it alone. And I will look for partners along this way along this journey. And with that, I am filled with truly so much hope that we'll able do to make investments where it matters and we really get to the root of the issue. And it really brings us to the housing situation that we do see, but also the early childhood education being a paramount and any investment that we do that this is something that's not just short term and that's just not reactionary. It's investments that really set the foundation for a person to understand who they are and the strengths that they have in both their culture, but also their language as well. So I'm filled with so much hope in terms of what will what we will able to accomplish

RB: and how do you square that with with the young voice who we heard in the clip at the very beginning of this teenager saying, we always try to look at the bright side, and right now there is no bright side. So you have hope, but others don't. What do you say to those who don't?

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: I truly feel there's an opportunity here that the voices that were echoed when the youth protested and walked into this legislature into their house, that we've heard them very loud and clearly. So with that in mind, I truly come to this role with humility and but also an opportunity for us to to bring actual solutions as we move forward so that youth standing up is truly a symbol of hope in my perspective. And I truly felt inspired when I seen them marching and having marched shoulder to shoulder with them as they were walking down the street into their house, into their legislatures, something that really inspired me and really instilled hope in me that we have a very inspiring youth.

RB: Just finally premiered on the issue of the water crisis that Dionne also mentioned since the state of emergency was declared on the 12th of October. The residents of Iqaluit, as you know, have been warned that local water supplies are unsafe to drink. Do you have any idea how soon people will be able to drink water out of their taps again?

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: That's obviously a very important question, so I just haven't been elected premier in contact with our mayor is worshipped Mr Bell. And I look forward to working with him. It's something that is impacting the city. So in the coming days, I will be working with Mayor Bell to see whatever assistance we can provide as a government is there and that our openness is there to ensure that they follow me and have the ability for clean drinking water, which is a fundamental right.

RB: So at this point, are you thinking it would be weeks, months? Any idea?

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: That's something I will be working directly with their Department of Community and Government Services. But at this point, I'm in contact with Mayor Bell and we'll go from there.

RB: Premier, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

PREMIER P J AKEEAGOK: No, thank you so much for having me, Robyn.

RB: P.J. Akeeagok is the newly elected premier of Nunavut coming up after your regional update?

SOUNDCLIP

The clip starts with someone off screen saying, Now is the perfect time, and then the coach goes and he hammers home that it's November 21st. So it seems incredibly scripted. The whole thing is incredibly bizarre, but creepy and sinister.

RB: Scripted, creepy and sinister. That's one journalist's take on the video that Chinese authorities claim shows a former world number one tennis player at a restaurant in Beijing. In 90 seconds, what we know and what we don't about what's happened to Peng Shuai? I'm Robyn Bresnahan and you are listening to The Current.

lingering concerns for safety of Chinese tennis star Peng Shuai; Adele's new album puts whistling centre stage

Guest: Carol Anne Kaufman

RB: I'm Robyn Bresnahan, and you're listening to The Current. Where is she and is she truly safe? Athletes, human rights groups and activists are still asking questions about Chinese tennis star Peng Shuai. The former world doubles champion disappeared from public view earlier this month after she accused a former senior member of China's communist government of sexual assault. On Sunday, however, she spoke to the International Olympic Committee, telling them she's safe and resting at home. There was also a video of her posted by Chinese state media showing Peng Shwe out in a boat in public. She was having dinner. Rob Koehler is the director general of Global Athlete, which is an international athlete led activist group, and we have reached him in Montreal. Rob, good morning.

ROBERT KOEHLER: Good morning, Robin.

RB: How reassured are you about those videos of Peng Shuai in public in the call that she had with the IOC?

ROBERT KOEHLER: Well, I could just speak on behalf of the athletes. I would say. Within an hour after the IOC released its press release, we had calls from athletes that were totally dumbfounded by the IOC's reaction, a total disregard of any mention of her sexual assault allegations. No talk about making sure she will be safe and have a safe exit out of China and no talk of an independent investigation. It was clear that the IOC was favouring the Chinese government over the health and well-being of athletes safety, so athletes were concerned, and there continue to be concern today on what the IOC did and leading to kind of allowing the Chinese government to. Brush this under the carpet and nothing to see here, move on.

RB: You say athletes were gobsmacked. Was there a sense of relief, though, that she? There were videos of her finally being seen in public?

ROBERT KOEHLER: There's no question everyone was pleased to see that she was alive, first of all, which tells you the gravity of the situation. But the way the IOC dealt with the issue, it really didn't bring a lot of confidence. We have to remember that athletes are going to be going to Beijing and less than two months, and we're in a country where human rights record is not very as abysmal, to be quite frank. Freedom of expression is very limited. And if this is the way they're going to treat a tennis player of the high calibre and ignore the the allegations, how are they going to deal with athletes that may have problems that go to Beijing for the Winter Olympic Games? Are they going to regain favour of the Chinese government over athlete safety and welfare? So I think it's a it's a bigger issue. Our first concern is to make sure that Peng Shuai is out of China so there can be an independent investigation to make sure she's safe because we and the athletes that we've spoken to don't have a lot of confidence that she's going to be protected under the current regime.

RB: There are other organisations speaking out quite strongly about this the Women's Tennis Association for one. I just want to take you to a clip from CNN. This is the WTA's Steve Simon.

SOUNDCLIP

There's too many times in our world today when we get into issues like this that we let business politics money dictate what's right and what's wrong when we have a young person who has the fortitude to step up and make these allegations knowing full, well what the results of that are going to be for us to not support that and demand justice as we go through it. You know, we have to start as a world making decisions that are based upon right and wrong.

RB: What do you think of that response?

ROBERT KOEHLER: The WTA has absolutely got it right, and we have not seen an international sport federation or, to that matter, a professional sport league. Take the brave stance that he has taken on behalf of all of the athletes. Again, we talk about it is so hard for victims of abuse to come forward, to speak up and then to share their story. And basically the IOC victimise the victim again. And what the WTA is doing is absolutely correct and putting politics aside and making sure that money doesn't lead to the direction of where they're going. But athletes safety and this is what we talk about. We look at safe sport globally and even in Canada, where sport cannot self-regulate and independence needs to be there. Thankfully, the WTA has acted independently in terms of their actions and are demanding response and demanding action. So we took her hat to the WTA.

RB: So, do you think that the IOC's response so far, or maybe perhaps more accurately as you're putting it, the lack of response on this is all about money?

ROBERT KOEHLER: I think it's about money, I think it's about making sure the Chinese government is happy and making sure that there's no hiccups leading into the Beijing Olympic Games. It's simply unacceptable for the IOC not to address the issue in terms of the sexual assault in terms of making sure that that she's brought out of the country and there's an independent investigation. They surely they have a duty of care and with the world athletes going to be going to Beijing, there's more accountability that's needed. So we're concerned, very concerned for her safety. We're concerned for the athletes going to Beijing safety because the IOC actions speak louder than words and they've their actions have been pretty, pretty limited to be quite frank.

RB: The video call with punctually included the chair of the IOC Athletes Commission, Emma Tero. She tweeted that the commission supports the quote Quiet diplomacy that's being done on this issue. What do you think of that?

ROBERT KOEHLER: Yeah, we've heard from a lot of athletes that clearly said, if I go missing, please do not use quiet diplomacy. Please scream at the top of your lungs to make sure that I'm safe. You know, the problem with the IOC Athletes Commission is and I don't blame the athletes themselves because the IOC has put them in this position is they have a fiduciary duty to the IOC. And when they become an IOC member or an IOC athlete committee member, they swear an Olympic oath that they support all decisions of the IOC so they don't represent independence and they have to represent the voice of the IOC itself. So we were concerned, we always been concerned with that structure because the the Athletes Commission of the IOC, they do not represent athletes of the world and therefore it's always suspect when they come out with the statement.

RB: As you pointed out, Rob, the story comes just a few months before the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing. Do you anticipate this will have any impact whatsoever on countries sending athletes to the games?

ROBERT KOEHLER: I don't know if will have impact, but I hope it's a call for change and we are hearing about boycotts, government boycotts of the games, but governments need to step up and make the IOC more accountable. And first of all, the IOC is to blame for awarding the games to Beijing. In 2008, there was abysmal human rights record that they had leading into and there was talk of boycott and we're in the same position now. So governments who heavily fund sport need to make the IOC accountable and say you need to immediately embed human rights into the Olympic charter into the bid documents to avoid this ever happening again. If you don't, then we're not going to play in your sandbox anymore. And I would extend that call to the Olympic Committees, the Canadian Olympic Committee, to bid to to demand more from the IOC in terms of human rights, because right now their record speaks for itself. And unless they make those changes, I'm concerned for any athlete that goes.

RB: Rob, thank you for your time this morning.

ROBERT KOEHLER: Pleasure, Robyn.

RB: aThat's Rob Keeler, the director general of global athlete and international athlete led activist group. And we reached him this morning in Montreal. Making public claims of sexual harassment and sexual assault in China is a risky proposition. Women's rights groups that expose abusers have been shut down and censored their members arrested. Last month, a leading Chinese activist who reported on sexual harassment was detained and charged with inciting subversion of state power. Yaqiu Wang is a senior researcher on China at Human Rights Watch, and we've reached her in New York. Good morning.

YAQIU WANG: Good morning.

Help us interpret what we've heard so far about Peng Shui being safe and sound. Is it possible that she is fine and she hasn't faced any repercussions for speaking out?

YAQIU WANG: Well, I think all these videos and her call with the IOC, the only thing that they can prove that she's alive. I mean, I don't know whether she's well, what kind of pressure or threats the government is exerting on her. You know, we have no kind of information because the image was on this video. We still don't can hear from her directly. You know, her own voice is missing from this.

RB: How are accusations of sexual assault and harassment generally handled in China?

YAQIU WANG: Well, first, you know, China has no freedom of the press. People usually just go to the internet to tell their stories, and then when the story gets big and when people start to discuss about it, there's censorship, quickly calm and work those discussions, the information off the internet. Then the government will come and physically harass or even jail people for speaking up against sexual harassment or tried to organise some kind of protests.

RB: Did the MeToo movement, which we saw around the world, did it reach China? Did it have any impact?

YAQIU WANG: Absolutely. I mean, the MeToo movement first gained traction in early 2019. Then, you know, many allegations were levelled against a very well-known people, including the academia, the media and some people, you know, got fired or, you know, condemned the for their behaviour. But, you know, in a way, it never reached the legal system, you know, in the sense that officials were condemned or fired for sexual harassment or assault. So, you know, in this case, it's extraordinary, not just, you know, because it's reached the political system it reached it was never again such a high level government official.

RB: How much attention is the punk showcase getting inside China?

YAQIU WANG: Well, I mean, after she posted that post within 30 minutes, the poster was censored. But doing this for 30 minutes, people were discussing it fiercely. Actually got censored. Or people start to use coded language to describe the case. But given back to the censorship, it was so overwhelming. I mean, right now, it's not much discussed inside China.

RB: I want to ask you about another specific case that's still ongoing. This is about the activist Sophia, who are changing, who has been targeted and detained by authorities after helping women in China report cases of sexual harassment. What's happened to her case?

YAQIU WANG: Well, I mean, she when the MeToo movement started, she started to collect, you know, accounts, personal accounts of women who suffered sexual harassment and assault. And, you know, she brought attention to this case. Then in September, you know, the garment just disappeared her. We I, you know, we had not heard from her for a long time. Then the government announced that she was charged for inciting subversion of state power.

RB: And where she now?

YAQIU WANG: We don't know. I mean, you know, she's detained in some detention centre in Georgia.

RB: Do you know her personally?

YAQIU WANG: Yes, it's very, very sad. She's an incredible person. And I think she knew this was going to come. It's not like, you know, she just was doing this activism, writing those articles without knowing that this could have come to her.

RB: What did she tell you about that if she knew it was going to come, that she might be detained? Why was it so important for her to continue doing the work?

YAQIU WANG: Well, I think you this is similar to, you know, [unintelligible] spoke up because people women kind of feel such a sense of justice. They feel women are exploited or abused by power and that they want to seek redress. They want to challenge the paradoxical society. I mean, that sense of justice is so strong they were if they were willing to make a sacrifice.

RB: Are there any signs of change, it sounds like it's a different ballgame when it involves high level Chinese political officials, but there was another high profile case earlier this year of Chinese Canadian pop star Chris Wu was arrested on suspicion of rape. I mean, in that case, did you see that as a sign of some progress on issues of sexual violence?

YAQIU WANG: Well, I think the Congress is mostly from the grassroots women's rights activists, justice community, you just see a sense of solidarity when there's a case exposed online. People all come together, you know, just solidarity and their awareness of sexual assault, exploitation, abuse. I mean, in terms of a government, you know, the government is even in a case of crisis war. We don't know what's going on. The government said she was under investigation because there is no freedom of media. We don't know how the government is investigating. The government is ultimately, you know, still accountable.

RB: What are you going to be watching for next in the case of of feng shui?

YAQIU WANG: I mean, honestly, I really wish that she could leave China. You know, she wishes to do that because given the certain, you know, the current circumstances, it's very hard to act to have actual freedom living under the, you know, the ruling of the Communist Party.

RB: I mean, that is that's quite extraordinary that she would have to leave China. There must be so many other women who wouldn't be able to do that.

YAQIU WANG: Yes. I mean, that's just, you know, it's it's just a reality. Even, you know, for people who love China, the Chinese government can still leverage their family and friends inside China to silence them.

RB: Yaqiu Wang, thank you very much for your time this morning, really appreciate it.

YAQIU WANG: Thank you for having me.

RB: Yaqiu Wang is a senior researcher on China at Human Rights Watch. I'm Robyn Bresnahan, and you're listening to The Current.

[Music]

RB: Well, there's a little taste of the song, Can I get it by Adele off her new album, 30. It's a catchy tune that caught the attention of my next guest for one reason, not the lyrics, rather a revival of the long lost art of whistling on that track. Carol Anne Kaufman is known as the Whistling Diva. She's a two time world champion, musical Whistler and the producer of the Masters of Musical, Whistling International Competition and Festival in Los Angeles. Carol Anne Kaufman Hello. Good morning.

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Good morning, Melbourne.

RB: How would you rate the whistling in that tune?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: A pretty darn good. I'm quite impressed. I think I might just send them an invitation to my event.

RB: Do we know? Was it actually Adele doing the whistling on the tune?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: You know, I did not get a chance to research that yet. I've just been having too much fun being grateful that there's some whistling prime time right now.

RB: That's right. How do you feel when you hear whistling in a song? I mean by Adele's one of the one of the world's top superstars?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Oh, you know, it's a really great feeling. It kind of feels like this little this little, you know, undiscovered gem that is getting its rightful place in the sun. And, you know, really, you know, whistling is arguably human beings' oldest musical instrument. And so to see it in the place where it needs to be were enjoyed by everybody and having an opportunity for people to say, Oh yeah, whistling. I love to whistle. I want to do that, too.

RB: What do you think that whistling adds that an instrument cannot?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Well, humanity would be one thing. Humanity as far as now, not when I'm talking about a guitar, but I'm talking about the sort of artificial whistle that's often used. So, so first of all, I'll just having a real person. That's what that sounds like to me, anyway. That is very distinct, right? There's something really organic about it and about a human instrument. Also, what's exciting is it's the sound we don't hear a lot. So even though you know, it's arguably the world's oldest, you know, human beings, oldest instrument. The fact is we don't hear it a lot in mainstream music, and that's a big part of what I do as the producer of the Masters of Musical Whistling here in L.A., we want to revive the interest that people have and whistling. We find that it's it's really getting a lot of attention through different moments like this, getting some attention in the media.

RB: Who taught you how to whistle?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Well, it's the North American whistling story. My dad taught me how to whistle and just went on and learn some instruments and I was a kid. And I guess I was just way too much of a ham to keep it to myself. So that's why I started in the competition world.

RB: Well, you gave us a little sample of your work already, but we want to hear a little bit more. So we're going to play some right now.

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: OK.[Whisles]

[Music]

RB: Wow. That's Carol Anne Kaufman with Summertime, correct?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Absolutely.

RB: How do you hit the high notes at the end there when you're whistling?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: You really got a purse, your lips, that tiny little lip hole? That's all the secret for me trying to get that. I mean, you know what? What boring advice can you possibly give? I'm so sorry to say, you know, it's it's like Lauren Bacall said, you put your lips together and blow and, you know, 300000 times later. Maybe you sound pretty good.

RB: But I don't think I could do that. I mean, there's definitely some skill to it. How do you how do you practise? How do you go about getting better?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Yeah. Well, you know, the thing is, you're whistling. Talent is going to develop just like any other musical talent. So especially like voice, right? You're going to whistle a lot. You're going to expect from yourself that you're going to be in tune, that you're going to be able to project when when people come and compete at my event, where that's exactly what the judges are looking for. What do you sound like? Are you pleasing to the ear? Are you hitting the notes you're supposed to hit or you sort of making things up as you go and it's not sounding so great? And that's how you become a world class performer, right? Is that you practise, practise, practise. You work with your coaches and you really focus on giving the music some kind of beauty, giving, giving it some kind of expertise that that anybody from anywhere around the world can appreciate.

RB: What does a whistling coach pep talk sound like?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Oh gosh, gosh, well, that's a great question. I'm certainly doing that all the time. You know, it usually starts with Here's some water. Here's your lip balm. Okay, drink this. Slather this on your lips. Breathe is usually the number one advice I'm going to give, and that's it's great advice for life, and it's a really great advice for whistling because that breath is all we've got in order to power our instrument. And so breathing, obviously is what's going to make that instrument flow. And also, the breath is, is what professional opera singers use. You know, anybody who plays a wind instrument that is what you need to develop in order to get your lungs in getting getting your lips in your armpits, you're ready. So, you know, knock em dead, blow them away is also usually what I would usually do.

RB: What's been the highlight of your whistling career?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Oh, well, other than this morning, I mean, it's hard to think of anything else. But you know, the highlight of my career thus far other than winning the World Championship both in the United States and in Japan, touring around the world and inviting people to not only appreciate this last instrument, but that they too can have an art form that has no boundaries for free. That can absolutely be a fine art instrument. And you know, it's just been an absolute joy for me to be the producer of the Masters of Musical Whistling, bringing whistlers together from all around the world, promoting art, promoting artistry. That's what I'm about. I don't care if you whistle. I don't care if you paint. I don't care if you, you know, make little lumps of coal. It doesn't matter to me. But if you express yourself, that's what's going to make the difference for you. And that's what's going to make the difference for our culture, for our world, if you don't mind me saying so.

RB: Do you hope this Adele song sparks a revival in the interests of the art of whistling?

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Oh, absolutely. Obviously it already has. I'm talking to you here in beautiful Canada and, you know, sharing about the art of whistling. So most definitely, you know, it's really fun to see how this sort of spaghetti western feel is coming through. Even in the lyrics, right? She talks about the good, bad and the ugly. So bringing back these old themes that really are intrinsically tied with whistling, with history with sort of what what our culture grew up on. And it's nice to have a nod towards that history and also bringing it forward because my mission is to bring whistling into the mainstream. And you know what, what better instrument to choose than the world's most portable instrument? You take it with you everywhere you go.

RB: You give me a little five second burst before we let you go.

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: Oh, absolutely. [Whistles] Some little riff just for you.

RB: Beautiful. Thank you. Nice to talk to you.

CAROL ANNE KAUFMAN: It's absolutely my pleasure.

RB: That's Caroline Kaufman. She is known as the Whistling Diva. Her album is called Wind Songs. Well, that is The Current for this Tuesday. Stay tuned to Radio One for Q. For four decades, Depeche Mode has been one of the most powerful forces in New Wave. The band's frontman, Dave Gahan, has a new album out with his other band, Soul Savers. He's going to stop IQ to talk about the new album and his career with Depeche Mode. In the meantime, we're going to leave you with a bit more of Adele's Can I Get It, where you can listen with a whole new appreciation for that fun whistling?

SOUNDCLIP

[Song]

Tuesday November 23, 2021 Full Transcript

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