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The Current Transcript for January 17, 2022

Host: Matt Galloway

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

Bonne annee, Happy New Year. Today's episode of Fast Friends is all about New Year's resolutions, resolutions [French speech]

MATT GALLOWAY: It has not been the return to school that most students are hoping for in 2022. Online learning has been tough for kids, parents and teachers. In the face of those virtual roadblocks, though, teachers have been working hard to connect through the screen. So as students in many parts of this country get set to head back to the classroom, we'll hear from three teachers about how they got creative to make this tough time work. Also this morning your letters on reassessing your relationship with alcohol and what you're doing to sleep better during the pandemic. The two topics may be connected. Plus, when Alexa McDonough first got into politics, there weren't any women's washrooms in the Nova Scotia Legislature.

SOUNDCLIP

But I actually discovered it was quite an asset because it meant I went downstairs to the public bar show, where all people all lined up at the washroom and I'd get to chit chat with them. I'd get to hear what they thought about what was going on and hear about their issues.

MG: Alexa McDonough carved a path for women in politics in this country in an hour. Lisa Raitt, Libby Davies and Anita Anand remember the first woman to lead a major political party in Canada and reflect on an influence still felt in politics today. We start, though, with good news and a glimmer of hope for multiple sclerosis patients in Canada. Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current.

[Music: Theme]

Woman living with multiple sclerosis for 20 years says latest research offers hope for answers

Guests: Dr. Jiwon Oh, Allison Markin

MG: Leading researchers have long suspected that multiple sclerosis is triggered by the common Epstein-Barr virus, or EBV. Now, a study out of the United States is presenting new evidence to back up that theory. It was a huge study that used blood samples from more than 10 million members of the U.S. military. Take a listen to one of the senior authors of the report, Dr. Cassandra Munger at Harvard University.

SOUNDCLIP

We found that those individuals who had become EBV infected as compared to individuals who did not become EBV infected, they had a 32 fold increased risk of developing MS. As well as EBV being the stand out virus when we looked at over 200 viruses. So our study provides the most compelling evidence that there is a causal association between Epstein-Barr virus and mass that MS is likely a rare complication of Epstein-Barr virus infection. And what this may mean for prevention is if we can develop a vaccine against EBV, we may be able to prevent the vast majority of most cases from occurring.

MG: For more on what this means for patients with MS and the future of MS Research, I'm joined by Dr. Jiwon Oh, she's medical director of the Barlowe Multiple Sclerosis Programme at St. Michael's Hospital in Toronto. Doctor, good morning.

DR. JIWON OH: Good morning. How are you?

MG: I'm well, thanks. How significant are these findings in, in your view?

DR. JIWON OH: I mean, I think this is a very important study because for a long time, the field has known that there is a link between EBV and MS. But because of the huge database that was used in the fact that these military personnel were followed over time and there clearly is this large interest increased risk of M.S. and people who were infected by EBV. It's it's kind of the definitive study that shows us that there likely is a causal link between having an EBV EBV infection and higher risk of developing MS.

MG: Tell me more about that. How long have researchers suspected that there might be that link

DR. JIWON OH: for, you know, over a decade this link has been known, but the problem with prior studies were that they were just associations that were observed in that, you know, in a cross-sectional sample of people with MS. You can demonstrate that, you know, most people have had EBV infection in the past, whereas when you look at other common viruses, that association is not there. But you know, the importance of a study like this is they had a huge sample of people that were not infected by EBV and then, you know, followed them over time and found that when they are infected many years later, the risk of MS is much higher than in people who did not have an infection. But part of the problem is that, you know, when you look at a sample of people over the age of 18, just healthy adults, over 90 percent of people are infected with EBV. So it's a really, really common virus to begin with. And so that's why in the past, these association studies have been much harder. But because of the size of this study and how long that these people were followed over time, this has given us really strong evidence showing that there likely is a causal link.

MG: What sort of reaction have you received from patients since this study was published?

DR. JIWON OH: You know, I think a lot of questions. And one of the main questions is how does this impact my treatment right now? And so I think the answer to that is that it really probably doesn't impact your treatment right now. But this study will likely really fuel additional studies, you know, as one of the investigators just said, looking at EBV vaccines and developing a vaccine and probably setting up studies that over time, will see if you know, administering these vaccines in kids over many, many years will prevent the development of MS and maybe some other autoimmune diseases as well.

MG: I want to ask you more about that in just a moment. As you can imagine, there is huge interest in this from people across this country living with MS, and I want to bring one of those people into our conversation. Allison Markin has been living with MS for almost 20 years. She's been watching this study, as you can imagine, with particular interest, she's at home in Penticton, B.C. Allison, good morning.

ALLISON MARKIN: Good morning.

MG: When you heard of this study and the fact that MS might be triggered by this specific virus, what was your reaction?

ALLISON MARKIN: First reaction is that it potentially answers the question that I've had for almost 20 years. Why did I get MS? And the second question is, how did I get it? And that gives me a bit of hope, too, to answer that, to maybe give myself some. Reassurance that there was nothing that I did 20 years ago, maybe even more than that longer than that. That brought me into my life. If it's if it was a virus and that's no fault of mine or anybody else's, that gives me a little bit of comfort, quite frankly.

MG: And is that something that was running through your mind wondering whether there was something as you began to live with this, that there was something that you did to lead to this?

ALLISON MARKIN: Absolutely. I think when you are diagnosed with any illness, if it's a chronic autoimmune or anything, you wonder, what? What did I do? Did I do something wrong? Did I eat something wrong? Did I hurt myself? I was given many theories when I was first diagnosed that maybe when I had a wisdom tooth pulled and I injured a nerve that might have been the cause, which many of these things just sounded ridiculous at the time. But for many years now, I've thought, is it something that has to do with the virus? And that's come up in my own medical questions with my team many times. And I was exposed to Epstein-Barr almost exactly 10 years before the onset of my symptoms, which aligns completely with this study.

MG: Dr. Oh, one of the things and you've hinted at this almost 95 percent of people have Epstein-Barr virus over the course of their lifetime, but not everybody, obviously who is exposed to that is going to develop Ms. Why might someone like Alison develop M.S. after being exposed when many people do not just help us understand that a bit more?

DR. JIWON OH: So, you know, that's really the million dollar question, and it's complicated, and so what this study shows us is that having an Epstein-Barr virus infection is a necessary factor to develop MS. But in and of itself, it probably is not sufficient. And that's why, you know, over 95 percent of the world's population does not have MS. So it's probably a combination of many things, including genetics, as well as potentially other environmental factors that all come together together with having had an Epstein-Barr virus vaccine - sorry about Epstein-Barr virus infection in the past that come together to cause mass in an individual person.

MG: But those are some of the questions that are still waiting to be unravelled and answered, I suppose.

DR. JIWON OH: Exactly.

MG: Allison, what's your experience been like living with MS as you were diagnosed in 2003 2003?

ALLISON MARKIN: So Canada Day in Vancouver, I was supposed to go to the Jazz Fest with a friend of mine, and I started to lose the sight in my right. I didn't think much of it. The next day, I was very grateful he was able to go to my doctor, then an ophthalmologist and a neuro ophthalmologist, and figure out that I had optic neuritis, which was a very common start for me. And since then, it's been. I hate to use the term journey, but that's really what it is is it's a part time job for me, really, of learning about it, figuring out what helps me, what makes me feel better, what may trigger inflammation and what studies are out there. So it's really a good part of my day sometimes to look into what's coming next, what treatments are out there and what I should be doing to manage my symptoms better than the day before.

MG: In addition to taking up a lot of your time, how do those symptoms impact your life day to day?

ALLISON MARKIN: You know, it's the problem with MS. There are many problems with MS, but the main one is the instability, and it's unpredictable. So on a daily basis, I could feel fine or I could wake up. And I sort of do a systems check on most of what is feeling good today or my is my vision, OK? Are my hands numb and they are numb almost all the time, every day. And are my muscles weak? Are they saw? Are they spasm? And for me, I walk with a slight limp on my left side, which comes from a relapse about 10 years ago. And I sort of get out of bed. And I think and I think, All right, how are you standing? How is your balance? And I kind of then decide, what are you going to do today? How much effort are you going to put into the day? Do you need to go back to bed? But it's it's not. No day is ever quite the same as the previous one.

MG: That's a lot to have to manage every single day.

ALLISON MARKIN: Yes, absolutely.

MG: Which is why Dr Oh, you could imagine and again, you've hinted at this. But in the wake of the publication of a study like this, there are a lot of patients who might say, OK, what does this mean for me now? So is there any immediate implication for patient care coming out of this?

DR. JIWON OH: Not immediate. And, you know, I I think I say that with the hope that this will not necessarily make people think that this doesn't contribute at all. It's just that, you know, this is a really important study, I think, helping us understand the cause of Hamas. And I think ultimately, prevention is kind of the holy grail of therapeutics for any sort of disease. So there's a lot of hope in the field to be able to prevent MS to begin with. But a study like this unfortunately does not have any immediate treatment implications because it's really looking at what causes mess, not necessarily when you have A.. What additional things can be done? But the good news is we have a huge amount of therapies available now compared to what was available 10 years ago. So there's been huge progress in therapeutics in the field as well.

MG: Allison, how do you interpret these sorts of studies and and news stories given what you were living through, but also given the fact that there have been a lot of studies over time and a lot of proposed treatments for me over the years with with varying degrees of success and and truth.

ALLISON MARKIN: I treat most of them with a little bit of scepticism again because it's been so long and it's been two decades for me personally to manage this. So I look at, I think, the source where the study come from, who's telling me what I should be trying. I try to stay out of a lot of forums for mass online that talk about weird things like try getting boosting treatment or Poland treatment or different things. So I have a critical eye and I go back and I follow the science. I talk to my health care team, I ask them questions and seek advice and then decide what will be best for me. And I've tried different things. I know what works. It's been two decades of figuring it out. And for somebody who might be newly diagnosed, I think it's important to share information. And what I've gone through to maybe help them make better decisions compared to what was put in front of me 20 years ago.

MG: Those forums, though, and the decisions that that patients face can be attractive because hope is really powerful. So how do you end up not giving yourself false hope?

ALLISON MARKIN: That's a very interesting question, and because every day starts with a little bit of hope. How am I feeling? Am I feeling better today than the day before? So it is. It's just looking at things with a critical eye. And certainly when this study was released, I looked and I thought, Oh, this is interesting. This could be something that brings me some hope or brings me different treatment. But then I also look at how well I am managing things, and I look at it as living with them as not necessarily fighting it. But how do I manage it? And is this is this going to bring me something new? Maybe, maybe not. But the hope for me is that someone who might be going through symptoms today, tomorrow, next year will get better answers than I did when I was first diagnosed, and that that for me, is a main part of hope.

MG: Dr. Oh, that hope can be taken in any number of different directions. And you think of some of the the proposals for my treatment over the years, people might remember the controversy over so-called liberation therapy, which has since been disproven. When you're facing the need and the hope that patients have, what are the big challenges in developing effective treatments for MS treatments that actually work and not and not giving people false hope?

DR. JIWON OH: You know, I think we all like to we all want things that are going to be available immediately, but I think one important lesson that I've learnt and also that probably, you know, as Alison is outlining people with MS. are well aware of, is that good science and good therapeutics take time. And so again, you know, when we see a study like this, we want to know that, you know, tomorrow there will be a change in treatment. But I think it's really good news that there is such a huge focus on the MS field in general around the world and that over many years, each of these pieces of important scientific information come together to develop effective therapeutics. And again, I think how our field has changed in terms of the number of treatments available. You know, we went from having zero treatments in the mid-nineties to now nearly 20 treatments available for me. So this is an illustration of how science and therapeutics take time. But all of these things come together over time to make things better for people living with them.

MG: You said initially that one of the key things coming out of this research is the idea of prevention. So what are the possibilities that are opened up in this conversation that might lead to future MS research or help with prevention down the road? Is a vaccine kind of the endpoint here?

DR. JIWON OH: Yes. And you know, this is really exciting because it is, to my mind, a definitive study that shows that there is a clear causal link between EBV and risk of developing MS. And so I think hopefully this will fuel number one, the development of an EBV vaccine. And as we've seen from the rapid development of COVID vaccines, this is possible. And once the vaccine has been developed, I think it makes sense to target populations of children that may be at higher risk of developing MS. And doing a trial to see if we can, in fact, in fact, prevent MS by using an EBV vaccine. How are we exposed to EBV? It's, you know, it's it's kind of everywhere. It's a very common virus. And in general, you know, it's thought of as the kissing disease. So any sort of kind of close contact where there is a lot of probably exchange is essentially how most people get EBV. So it's really kind of close household contacts, a lot of students when they go to university and are living in dorms, for instance, and there's a lot of close contact with many different people. This is a type of environment where you tend to get EBV. So around the world, you know, there's different ages when most people are exposed, but really by early adulthood again, the vast majority of people have been infected.

MG: As you said, good science takes time. Moderna is now working on an EBV vaccine. Realistically, how long do you expect that to take before it appears on the market?

DR. JIWON OH: Well, you know, I would say conservatively, probably three to five years, but it's really studies like this that can jump start interest and development into vaccines like this. So probably if a study like this was not published, I'd say maybe five plus years, but I think likely because there's, you know, definitive causal link here that's been established. It will likely fuel development. So hopefully within the next couple of years, we'll be able to see an EBV vaccine.

MG: But you see real promise here. This is exciting news for you.

DR. JIWON OH: It's very exciting. And you know, I wish I could say that there's immediate benefit, but the fact that potentially there will be avenues looking at exploring prevention of M.S. that is incredibly exciting.

MG: Allison, just before I let you go, you said something interesting. Earlier, you were distinguishing between living with MS and fighting MS. What is why is that distinction important to you

ALLISON MARKIN: living with it for me as a more positive way to look at it? It is a fight every day. It's a fight to make sure that I am healthy and well. But but looking at it as living with it instead of trying to constantly fight what may or may not be coming, it's a more positive way for me personally to look at it as this is just part of who I am. It's been part of my identity for 20 years, and it's easier for me to think of it as a part time job. I live with it, I manage it and and I continue with my life.

MG: It's not an easy place to get to, presumably.

ALLISON MARKIN: Not really. When I was first diagnosed, it was just how, why, what is going on and when I've had relapses and I've had some pretty major relapses over the years just saying, OK, what's going on? How do I fix this? And then I would go back to my care team and say, This is what's happening here. My symptoms? How do we deal with it? How do I live with this and keep having a productive life and a happy life as I live with MS and. And what can we do better? And this study brings me some hope in that sense that prevention, I think, is key for anything in health care. And this is this is a big deal to for somebody who may be going through what I went through two decades ago to look back at what can what could have been done or how can we prevent other people from developing MS in the future? And that, for me, is very exciting.

MG: I wish you good health, and I'm really glad to speak with you this morning, Allison. Thanks so much.

ALLISON MARKIN: Thank you.

MG: And Dr. Oh, thank you very much for helping us unpack and give a sense as to what this this all means. Thanks so much.

DR. JIWON OH: Thank you.

MG: Allison Markin has been living with MS for almost 20 years. She's in Penticton, B.C. Dr. Jiwon Oh is medical director at the Barlo Multiple Sclerosis Programme at St. Michael's Hospital in Toronto. You're CBC. News is next. And then. Happy Monday. Happy Monday. Indeed, that's just one of the ways teachers are keeping excitement high for kids during the endlessly disrupted start of the school year. In six minutes back to class after yet another pandemic pivot, we'll talk about what teachers are doing to connect with their students. I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current.

Teachers keeping kids on track in online learning, despite endless disruptions

Guests: Rara Sampson, Steve Massa, Sabrina Jafralie

MG: Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway and you're listening to The Current. Still to come, Alexa McDonough was a trailblazer in Haiti and politics, the first woman to lead a major political party in the 1980s. She was an inspiration for generations of new Democrats and paved the way in the House of Commons for women. After her in just under 30 minutes are National Affairs Panel will join us to reflect and remember. But first, keeping school fun no matter what form it takes.

[Music: Thene]

SOUNDCLIP

[Children singing]

MG: That's what school has looked and sounded like for a lot of kids in the past couple of weeks. We get together at the end, the five year old Kitty Cuthbertson, who's at home in Halifax, watching her teacher Tara Sampson, through the Computer.

Speaker 2: [sc]

Hi, Miss Tara

So we are back to online learning for a little bit. I know this is new to families. So great once you have done this before. Of course, we're sad not to be together as the senior thesis, but let's make sure that we're doing what we need to do to keep everybody safe. Before you have your own meet, you might look for a few things for me. We can make our class a little bit more fun. So January is instrument one and oh, let's do our [unintelligible] song. Once we've already known as grade primary. January Chicken Soup.

[Music]

[Class starts singing]

MG: Some students in the East Coast and in the north will still be learning online this week. Many Canadian kids and teachers are heading back to the classroom, though, of course with the warning that things might shut down yet again if Omicron continues to spread or, as always, in Canada winter weather hits as it is this morning. We thought it would be a good time to talk to some teachers to find out how they are coping in yet another year of uncertainty. Tara Sampson is the music teacher you just heard she's in Halifax. Steve Massa, also known as Mr. Steve on YouTube, is a grade two and three French immersion teacher in Toronto, and Sabrina Jafralie is the head teacher of ethics and religious culture at Westmount High School in Montreal. She teaches grades seven, eight, 10 and 11. Good morning, everyone.

GUESTS: Morning.

MG: Tara. We just heard a bit of your class learning from home last week. Things will sound a little bit different today, with students heading back into the classroom in Nova Scotia. How are you feeling about being at school again in a classroom full of kids? This has been something that a lot of students obviously have been waiting for parents too, but teachers have a big role to play in this. So going back, what? What's that going to be like?

TARA SAMPSON: It's definitely easier to teach in person. It's easier to motivate your kids and build relationships with kids. But I'm actually home today because my husband and daughter tested positive. So and I don't think that I'm going to be alone in that for very long. So we, you know, it's it's nerve wracking for sure.

MG: No shortage of things being presented in front of you to pivot to at a moment's notice.

TARA SAMPSON: Absolutely, absolutely. And when we we're going when I was expecting to be teaching today, I have found out Friday afternoon that we were not going to be allowed to sing, which is another whole set of issues for for music class, for sure.

MG: I want to ask you about how you were trying to. Obviously, you're not going into the classroom, as you said, but how you were thinking about addressing those concerns. I'll ask you that in a moment, Steve, what about for you? How did online teaching go for you last week?

STEVE MASSA: I'm not going to lie. You actually went quite well, but I mean, I have such an amazing group of kids and the two threes, they've already been through it before. I can't imagine having a group of kindergarteners who never experienced the online realm of teaching. Was it ideal? Absolutely not. But we did make the most of it. I try and bring as much of what I do in the classroom to online learning as humanly possible. And that does involve costumes and wigs, props. But I mean, it just isn't the same as being there face to face. But I try and keep the energy up for them. And that seemed to translate fairly well, which kept them engaged and pushing through.

MG: Were you looking forward to getting back into the classroom? You should have been there today, but there's a snow day in Toronto. Yeah, if there's one more thing that this year could present in front of you.

STEVE MASSA: Yeah, I mean, I was really excited, I mean, I absolutely love the passion and the joy that the kids bring into the classroom itself, and it's hard to mimic that and translate that energy through a screen, but you really get that electric excitement from the kids in the classroom. I, of course, absolutely have my anxieties about going back to school as well. I do visit my family and my dad isn't well and I do help around the house. So do I have my concerns about possibly being a carrier and bringing it home to them? But my job is to teach the kids and I will do that as long as it's deemed safe and good. But yes. So it's your question. Absolutely. Very excited to see my kids again. But not today. Not today, not today. Because today is very much a snow day.

MG: Sabrina, it's been back and forth for the last couple of years. In-person, online, in-person, online, in-person, online pivot has become a word that I think teachers are tired of saying and explaining to their kids. How has that been for you?

SABRINA JAFRALIE: Well, you know, I'm I'm in the high school setting, so we're hoping that they're picking up some adaptability skills and, you know, understanding and patience, and it's not been easy for a high school, especially those who were coming out of, for example, elementary going into high school. This has been their initially their experience with high school. So, you know, we take it one day at a time that we try to keep safe. We try to ensuring that learning is the priority. But I echo my colleagues. We're really in a balancing act, and that's that's the part where I feel that our governments could do better for us if we have to keep going back online or in person. I think there are some real changes that could be made and and giving that creativity back to teachers to make online learning more successful, more effective, more creative, as opposed to presenting it as, Oh, we've got to go back online, which doesn't necessarily translate to something positive.

MG: Tara, one of the things about music class is being in the same room with a lot of other students and the teacher and everybody trying to figure it out, whether you're honking away on instruments that you can't really play or singing songs. What was it like trying to teach music through the screen?

TARA SAMPSON: It's it's definitely very tricky. Definitely also using costumes and props, all those things to try and get them excited and reassure them that they're singing at home. We are singing together is just because we don't hear it with our own little ears. We are singing together at the same time, so this is still a group effort. We have done the past couple of years. I had really wonderful colleagues with the could-I Society of Nova Scotia, and they've been really helpful in reaching out to each other and letting us know reassuring teachers that adapting what you were doing don't reinvent entirely because we are going back and forth so much. So try to adapt what you would have done as best you can.

MG: What happens when you get back into the classroom and kids aren't allowed to sing?

TARA SAMPSON: Will we in the past when we have had that directive, we've done a bit more bucket drumming listening, especially with the Youngers, so listening and reacting to to music divers, Schakowsky has fun with composer series that we've done where you listen to classical music. But you know you have all these, all these other little hooks where you're acting out a story or playing rhythm instruments along with the classical music. It's unfortunate because singing is 90 percent of what? We do. And it's the Nova Scotia Coral Federation and other groups have come together to present the material. Studied at different universities, the Berlin London, saying that singing is not, you know, it, it's not a bad thing. During COVID, we can sing safely.

MG: All in the spirit, I suppose, of connecting with students, which is something that Steve has been really good at. Steve, you've been creating these videos for your students and you've been posting them up on YouTube since the start of the pandemic. We heard a little bit at the beginning of the programme. Take a listen to what one of these videos is like.

SOUNDCLIP

Bonne anne. Happy New Year. Today's episode of Fast Friends is all about New Year's resolutions, the resolutions du 2021. [French speech]

MG: Mr. Steve, why did you decide to create these videos for your grade two and three students?

STEVE MASSA: Great question. When the pandemic began, I just really felt like I needed to do something. We had that weird two weeks of limbo where everyone was like, Yeah, you're going back to work in two weeks, which we obviously didn't. And I just really wanted to do something. I talked to some friends and they were like, Yeah, start making some videos, had no idea what I was doing. I just really wanted a way to connect with the parents and students and my community. Did I ever think that it would become Canada wide? No. But it's also just came from a place of looking for resources and while being virtual and realising that there's not a lot out there that's French at the level that our students can understand and also enjoy that. It wasn't so dry, so to speak. So I just decided to do what I do in the classroom and turn it into videos that I could use myself and that, you know, other teachers and parents and caregivers and adults could use all across Canada. And that's what I think I succeeded in doing.

MG: What's the reaction been? I mean, you mentioned Canada. White people across the country are paying attention to these videos and using them to your point in their classrooms.

STEVE MASSA: Yeah, I mean, the reception has been great. I get messages and on my Instagram from teachers all the time letting me know that. Thank you so much. These videos are so useful. You've done exactly what I was looking for, and some of them even send me suggestions and say, Hey, I've been trying to find this video any chance you could do something on it? I mean, I don't have all the time in the world to make videos for everybody. But if it's something that you know is in line with something I'm doing, I'm able to do that too. But for the most part, yeah, kids, parents, everyone seems to be really into them, and it's been a really big motivating factor for me to keep going with it. It's just knowing that I've been helping and that was why I started this.

MG: Sabrina, this is tough. The engagement piece, particularly for high school students, it would perhaps be easier for them to turn the camera off, not feel like they need to be as engaged in what the teacher is doing. And I say this as the parent of a high school student who has had conversations about keeping that camera on. How do you go about adjusting your teaching to make sure that the students are plugged in?

SABRINA JAFRALIE: I think you have to consider that they're high school students, and they probably use technology more than we do, and this is where you have to become digital citizens and not just digital users. So I'm very clear about them, but what my expectations are, how long we're going to stay online, what they can. So giving them options and providing them opportunities to come on and off to have tech breaks, not to have tech fatigue. And I prepare my assignment as such. Like, we look at a lot of interesting things. We go off for a while, we come back and allowing that flexibility to be built into your online learning is really important at a high school level because they would want to look at their social media. But at some point, how much social media can you look at as well? So it's about finding and teaching them how to use the social media, how to use technology and how to take a break when it's necessary. So that's the adaptability approach I've been given.

MG: Tell me more about teaching them adaptability. I mean, you're learning adaptability, certainly, but they are as well. How are you teaching that?

SABRINA JAFRALIE: I think going through having good mental health check ins with them, first and foremost understands they're all at different points. All I have to do, I stay online the entire time to make sure that they can jump in and speak to me alone. So you do create an opportunity where they know you're accessible. They know they. They have a break. They can come back to you. They can speak to you. They can send you messages privately on Google. I think using the tools that we have in front of us, changing the assignments, changing their valuation grades, but still meeting the same competencies show, I think the best way of showing them adaptability is being adaptable. And so when this first struck, I was the first one to adapt my curriculum for online learning and taking that forward with me into the up and down that we've been going through.

MG: One of the things that we've heard from other teachers is that the students, perhaps who are engaged in the classroom, are the ones who are going to be engaged online that if there are any concerns about connecting with the student, that those would be exacerbated in these difficult times. Is that what you're seeing? And if so, how are you making sure that that students aren't? Left behind in this moment.

SABRINA JAFRALIE: Well, I think there is some truth to that, but I also think we want to realise that every student at some point is going to go through some form of exhaustion. So it's almost like playing hot potato or, you know, changing your seat. You've got to make sure you check in with all of them and make sure that you're available for them at any time, because even the ones who are super engaged themselves, they get exhausted, the ones who are normally not engaged from the beginning. Funnily enough, I've seen a lot of student engagement from the ones I didn't expect. I recently did an assignment and the student did an app and I was like, Oh, I didn't even ask for this. So I I it's not. I think it's her. You have to care for all of them and make sure that we all understand that at some point they can go through highs and lows the same way I do. And that's OK and we can gain if we can go through it together and we're all in this together. I think that's a really important message for my high school students and at our school. We're really creative of keeping our traditions alive online, whether it's from our graduation. We're always thinking about them and their experiences.

MG: Tara, you're teaching the littles. How do you keep them interested and on track? There's a lot going on in their own lives. Well, while you're trying to communicate with them through the screen.

TARA SAMPSON: Um, well, the little clip at the beginning with Kitty their classes, they had to go around. So they had a YouTube video first to let them know they had to go around their house and find some things that could make some noise with. And you know, I had really creative, really creative instruments coming back in. We play a marching song and there are kids checking boxes of Kraft dinner or ringing their parents keys like Jingle Bells. So having something interactive like that, it was helpful there. The last lockdown we were doing the Marriage of Figaro and I was dressed as Chef Figaro with the hat and the saloon and singing online and my daughter is in my class and she came out with her Chromebook and she showed it to her dad because I was teaching from school, although online. Yeah. So she came out and she showed the Chromebook to her dad and she said, Look at your wife right now. So, you know, you have to kind of put yourself out there to be a little a little silly, to get some, to get some engagement from them sometimes.

MG: Do you also have to acknowledge, I mean, what's going on on the other side of the screen where there's a lot of stress and I'm parents, if they're home working, if they're able to be home working, they're juggling a lot too. They might have their own jobs. They might be trying to, you know, provide tech support to the kids who are trying to figure out how to see people on the screens. There's a lot that's going on and parents were worrying are my kids, you know, falling behind while they're not in the classroom? Do you have to acknowledge that as well?

TARA SAMPSON: Yeah, that's a big concern. In 2020, our first lockdown, we were much less curriculum driven and a lot more wellness driven because it was so new for everyone and everyone was so overwhelmed. So that's when I was making YouTube videos for a whole, for a whole family as opposed to a grade level. So we did sing alongs or, you know, my kids would go on a sound walk with me. And, you know, so that's the whole so that if there were siblings, they could do it together. Instead of the parents having to sign on with three times with a different sibling and trying to get three, you know, an iPad and then all this stuff working. Um, we've worked out some of those kinks now, but it's definitely still a big challenge for parents.

MG: Steve, when you talk to other teachers, how much creativity are you seeing in terms of how they are trying? This is a difficult moment, but everybody's trying to do their best, how they're trying to do their best and make the most of this moment.

STEVE MASSA: In my eyes, teachers right now are the superheroes of the world is just incredible building of collaboration and creativity I see coming out of my colleagues. If you take a look at Twitter or Instagram, you'll see the amount of sharing and creativity that's going on. It's just really heartwarming. Everyone's really trying and doing their best. And one of the messages that I did want to share is that I do see a lot of stress and anxiety, and everyone really wants to do everything they can to make sure their kids are having fun and engaged. But one thing they're really focussing on are the bells and whistles, and I don't think you need all those bells and whistles to be a good online or virtual teacher. We really need is to bring your own personal fun and energy into the classroom because the kids are there for you ultimately to learn. Yes, but they're there for their teacher. And OK, yeah, I put on wigs and costumes, and I make these videos for YouTube, but I also bring my authentic self to class every single day. And, you know, having fun with them is the best thing you can possibly do to engage your kids through the screen. I'm like the annoying uncle I tell jokes. I'm just really silly, and that's just who I am, and I bring that and I'm real with the kids, and I think that's what they appreciate the most. So I think that's the takeaway from this is just be yourself, have fun, try and be authentic and engaging. And hopefully the kids sort of, you know, show up for you and for that.

MG: What do you think that they'll have taken away from this? Briefly, Steve.

STEVE MASSA: Students?

MG: Yeah, from this from this whole experience beyond the curriculum, what do you think that they'll have learnt?

STEVE MASSA: Resiliency, perseverance, those are the kinds of words that come to mind. They're going to come away really being able to handle whatever gets thrown their way because I don't know about you, but as a kid, I don't think this is the kind of change I would have been down with. I mean, as an adult, I'm not really with it either. But I mean, these kids just roll with it and it's amazing. Like, I haven't had one kid complain about being virtual these past two weeks. And that's astonishing because I'm a complainer. And let me tell you, I'd be complaining. But it's just amazing. These kids just have a way of shining through and focussing on the positives and having fun. And I think we can learn a lot from our students if we just try to follow suit.

MG: And that's that adaptability piece that you were talking about earlier, Sabrina.

SABRINA JAFRALIE: Absolutely. I mean, I envy Steve and I, you know, teaching and others was singing. I'm teaching high school, so I don't know how they would respond to me dressing up.

MG: You never know until you try.

SABRINA JAFRALIE: I don't know. I would let you know if I do it, but I will tell you this. What I really do love about my students is their ability to think outside the box. And this is one thing that I've really struggled in this pandemic. Not every subject in high school can lend itself to thinking outside the box. But what would happen if we could be given that time to redesign a curriculum online and a curriculum in school with their seamless and work together? All the things we're doing now, the sharing, the creativity, the using, the craft dinner boxes, all of that. That's just when we don't have time. Can you imagine when we did have time? And that's the part. I really want to send kudos to the teachers and to the students because I really do think they understand that we're in this together. And when they come out of this, they're going to gain the skills of hybrid learning, flexibility, adaptability, switching on a moment to dealing with the pandemic. And it seems like a lot right now, and it is, but the end goal is giving them an array of skills that we can bank on, and that's what I love about my job the most.

MG: Tara, last minute to you. What do you hope your your little students take from this moment?

TARA SAMPSON: Definitely resiliency as well. Although I sometimes worry when we say I think kids often say kids are so resilient, kids are so resilient. And, you know, maybe there's more that we could do for them. I hope that's not a, you know, a copout. I also want them to take away that there. They have to make time for themselves, and they have to sometimes turn everything on. So I think that living in the constant state of reaction is really stressful on teachers. If I were a new teacher, oh my gosh. And thank goodness I've been doing this for 15 years. So, you know, I hope that they take some time for some, some peace, love happiness on their own.

MG: Teachers have been real heroes through this, and your students are lucky to have you. Thank you for what you're doing and thank you for telling us about how you've been connecting with your students.

STEVE MASSA: Thank you. Thank you so much for having us.

MG: Sabrina Jafralie, Teachers Ethics and Religious Culture at Westmount High School in Montreal. Tara Sampson Elementary School Music Teacher in Halifax. Steve Massa is a French immersion teacher at Withrow Avenue Junior Public School in Toronto. Will end where we started in the living room classroom of Katie Cuthbertson.

SOUNDCLIP

[Children singing]

MG: Kitty knows. Coming up after your regional update, we will remember a political trailblazer. NDP Alexa McDonough died this weekend. Our National Affairs Panel looks at her legacy coming up in 90 seconds. I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current CBC Radio One.

How Alexa McDonough blazed a trail for women in Canadian politics

Guests: Lisa Raitt, Anita Anand, Libby Davies

MG: Hi, I'm Matt Galloway, you're listening to The Current

SOUNDCLIP

On behalf of my husband, Peter and myself. I'd like to thank you very much for giving our children a very important message, and that message is that NDP is not always losing.

MG: There was a time in Canada when Alexa was a household term. It stood for trailblazer, for women in politics and for advocating for social justice. Alexa McDonough rose to prominence over 40 years ago. She became the first woman to lead a major political party in Canada with the NDP and Nova Scotia. She then went on to become the leader of the federal NDP in 1995. Alexa McDonough died over the weekend. She was 77. To look at her legacy within Canadian politics, a special edition of our national affairs panel. Today, I'm joined by three prominent political women New Democrat Libby Davies and conservative Lisa Raitt, who are both retired MPs and Liberal. Anita Anand, The Current minister of National Defence. Good morning, everybody.

GUESTS: Good morning, ma'am. Good morning.

MG: I'm glad to have you all here. Libby Davies, I want to start with you. You served in the House of Commons alongside Alexa McDonough while she was leader of the federal NDP. What do you remember about who she was as a politician, but also as a person?

LIBBY DAVIES: Well, Alexa was just truly a wonderful, wonderful person, both personally and politically, a very strong feminist, someone who was willing to stand up for equality and social justice. And I think what I remember most about her was, you know, she was very kind and generous person, but she also had a very steely resolve about what she believed in and what she was willing to fight for. And we saw that time after time, not only in the House of Commons, in Nova Scotia and our earlier political life. And she was a really very strong leader in Ottawa, a political leader during very difficult times. So I that's what I think about Alexa, and I think many people do is that she just had that incredible resolve to stand up for what was right. She didn't like to see people divided. She was such a strong advocate for peace and justice, particularly around war issues and making sure that Canada didn't become complicit in in wars. So she was, you know, she has a very strong legacy.

MG: Lisa Raitt, you never sat in the House of Commons while Alexa McDonough was there, but on the weekend you tweeted, I wouldn't have grown up in Nova Scotia with the belief that women belonged in politics. But for Alexa McDonough, she was a role model for many, including me. Tell me more about that.

LISA RAITT: Well, before I even knew what the word feminism was, I recognised Alexa McDonough as a female leader politician in Nova Scotia was like late 70s, early 80s. I did a paper on her in my, I think, elementary school middle school, and it just was the realisation Well, yeah, women, women can be in politics and you can be a leader and you can stand up for what's right. And it was just a partisan kind of record recognition and a reckoning for me that you didn't have to be told now that politics wasn't an option for you.

MG: Did you? I'd heard that in the paper that you wrote about her, you referred to her just by her first name as Alexa. I did.

LISA RAITT: Yeah, truth. I find it curious now to add throughout the entire paper, I referred to her as Alexa and the note key back from my teacher. You know, we don't refer to these people with their first name. It's only it has to be Mrs. McDonnell or it has to be the leader. And you know, I reflect on that today and think, but that was her whole brand. She was Alexa, and that's how I connected with her at that early age.

MG: Anita Anand, you also grew up in Nova Scotia, and you tweeted on the weekend how Alexa McDonough inspired you and showed you that there was a role for strong women in politics. How did she do that?

ANITA ANAND: Well, not like Lisa, I was growing up in the 70s and 80s in Nova Scotia, and my parents were always talking about Alexa, especially in terms of suggesting to me that there is a rule, there is a place for women in politics. And at the time, I thought it was fairly normal for women to be in politics and to lead political parties and to be on the front page of. At the time it was the Chronicle Herald. And now that I'm here and in government, I realise that Alexa was a trailblazer, breaking down barriers left, right and centre. And I was lucky enough to be in Nova Scotia at the time that she was doing that and now serving in federal parliament, where she was very influential in shaping the role that women have today as well.

MG: Libby Davies being the first is important, but it's also really difficult. What did she face as as the first female leader of a major political party?

LIBBY DAVIES: Well, first of all, I really love the stories from Anita and Lisa, from growing up in Nova Scotia and knowing about Alexa, that is truly remarkable. And, you know, Alexa was a woman who, I mean, she did face challenges. You know, there is sexism in politics, in the political arena. And unfortunately, that still exists today where we're all too familiar with it. But what what I found about Alexa in working with her was so many years as part of the caucus is that she just kind of pushed that aside, you know, her mission was to get on and do the job and to stand up for people's rights, for public health care, for equality. And so, you know, I remember she faced challenges even in the media, you know, the way she was dressed or she wasn't strong enough or she, you know, made the criticisms about women and politics can be very, very gendered. And I think Alexa faced all of that. But she took it right in her stride and just kind of moved on because she knew what she had to do. And I think that was again showed the kind of steely resolve that she had to not let things deter her because she was there, not for her own ego or her own power. It was about a vision for a better country and for equality for all people, and that really, really drove her and allowed her to get past those challenges. And I think again serves as a role model, certainly for me, for other women in our caucus. And I think for all women in politics that, yes, there are barriers and challenges and they still exist. But we have to get in there and we have to support each other and we have to change the rules. We have to make these places more work friendly for for women and all underrepresented groups. And Alexa was very, very much a part of that in the early days and through our whole political life.

MG: Let me play something that speaks to that fight for equality. This is Alexa McDonough speaking in the House of Commons shortly after the attacks on 911.

SOUNDCLIP

Mr. Speaker, we need Canadians to know that Osama is a Canadian name, that Mohammed is a Canadian name, that worshipping in a mosque is a Canadian tradition.

MG: Libby Davies tell me about her advocacy for social justice. Where did that come from, do you think?

LIBBY DAVIES: Well, Alexa was a social worker by profession, but when you read about her you, you can see that her, the roots and the deep values that she has for social justice, for advocacy, for standing up, for people, come from her family, come from her life experience. And I think it's something that she carried with her her whole life and it informed her politics. And that became very clear at critical points in her political life. And the one you've just played around Maher Arar being imprisoned in Syria. I mean, she fought tooth and nail to to have him returned to Canada and to have him, you know, to have justice done and that that deep rootedness in justice and standing up for people is something that I think was just a core of her being, and it was something that came through every single day. But she was willing to take on those tough moments. And we have to remember after 911, you know, we were facing very draconian laws in Canada that that undermined people's civil liberties. Alexa took all of that on, you know, she was willing to stand up and speak out and and I think we were very proud of her in those moments. And so again, that's very much a part of her legacy.

MG: Anita Anand, you weren't in politics at the time that she made that speech and that she fought on behalf of Maher Arar, as Libby Davies was saying. But how does that stance on that case affect the decisions that you make today as a politician? How does that influence you?

ANITA ANAND: Well, Matt, I continue to be inspired by Alexa McDonough and hearing those words that she just spoke on the recording are so meaningful to me because I believe the same thing. I believe that we need to continue to fight for the principles she stood for and indeed the principles of equality, not just in regards to gender, but also across the board. And that's exactly what Alexa McDonough stood for. We need to continue to beat down barriers. We need to fight for more civility, more kindness, more understanding, more equality and to understand that we can disagree on ideas and have different party affiliations. But we need to start from a place of civility and kindness and facts. Otherwise, the the results will not be as fruitful in terms of what is best for Canada and the Canadian population. And on my part, I try to inject positivity and factual analysis into my work and my interactions as much as possible. And I believe that's what Alexis stood for also. And I miss her and her legacy very much.

MG: Do you worry that we've lost some of that?

ANITA ANAND: I do. I actually thought twice three times before deciding to enter politics two years ago. And I worry every day that we are not approaching serious issues of national concern from a place of civility and kindness and empathy. And that's what I try to do in my interactions, as well as, of course, rational debate and discussion.

MG: Lisa Raitt, do you think do you think we've lost some of that, that civility?

LISA RAITT: You can see a ebbing and flowing. I mean, I haven't been in the house for such a long time, so I can't really speak to what the interactions are. But for example, I always had Libby Davies and I always had a great relationship. I think Libby don't contradict me on national radio, please. Meghan, Leslie and I always got along really well with me and I. So there is those pockets of civility too. But as the minister says, it's what you put out. You have to put it out for it to come back to you. So I'm glad that she decided that you decided it needed to to join the ranks in parliament and bring that to the forefront. That's really important.

MG: She did a lot of advocacy across the country, but I think of what she was doing around the Westray mine as well. She was a big advocate for that tragedy as well, Lisa.

LISA RAITT: Had it in the back of my mind after Westray happened, which was, I mean, it was just something that everybody kind of just stopped and say, Wow, how could that happen in this period of our, of our time in our lives? And as just as reminder, what she fought for was criminal responsibility for those who were in charge of the mine and she was successful. And for me, I had it in the back of my mind, Well, you know, Alexa's on the case, I know something good will come of it because she's not going to let the issue die. She's going to continue on this until she gets what she thinks is a reasonable outcome. And she did.

MG: Libby Davies, you served in some prominent roles during your time in federal politics, including House leader for the party. When you take a look at the legacy of somebody who pushed for herself to be seen in that role, and as we've been talking about, inspired others. Where are we at right now when it comes to women in politics and political leadership today? Do you think?

LIBBY DAVIES: Well, you know, I have mixed emotions some days, I think, you know, so much has changed and it's much better. And then other days, I think, Oh, my God really has. So has anything changed and women still face challenges and sexism and and sort of a, you know, a double standard. But I think overall there have been changes. I mean, Alexa was a woman leader who really was a trailblazer. She showed that she could be in that arena. She could succeed. She could excel. She could, as Anita said, show compassion and kindness. And what she did was raise the bar of Canadian politics. And I think women, by and large, we play that role. You know, we're not as hyper partisan. And I think what we have to do is just really stick with it. We have to encourage and support young women to be involved in politics. Alexa always did that. We have to ensure that women of colour, indigenous women, racialized women get involved in policies because we want our parliament to reflect Canadian society overall. And Alexa did that her whole life. You know, I think she saw herself as an ordinary person, but she was passionate about what she did, and she inspired so many of us to get involved and to and to go the distance. And so I think that when we think about Alexa, we can all take that on and we can support each other and and encourage that kind of good politics right where we fight for what we believe in. But we do it in a way that is respectful and in a way that is considering the issues before us, but also considering other people's views and perspective. And I think Alexa always did that. So she's really just a wonderful person to always remember and have in our hearts.

MG: Anita Anand, how much has changed, do you think of the the harassment that you know women like Catherine McKenna faced in her time in elected politics? And you wonder whether much has changed at all?

ANITA ANAND: You know, we have more women in the House of Commons than ever before. We have a gender balanced cabinet. But the reality is that barriers remain. And we need to continue working to break them down. Matt, when I was thinking about running for elected office, many people told me that a visible minority woman could not get elected. Many people and I decided to say, OK, well, I'll take a chance. And the voters stood by me on that one, and I'll just say that if women across the country are hearing this, they're not going to run. We all need, regardless of political affiliation, to step up and to encourage women to run, to make politics a place where women and other minorities are welcome. And to see then what transpires when we have a full fledged, I would say, diversity and inclusion in the House of Commons and other institutions, whether it's hospitals, universities, public or private corporations, boards of directors. We need Alexa's message to shine through in all of those venues as well, and I know that all of us on the call today will continue fighting for that.

MG: Lisa Raitt, there is that phrase you can't be at unless you can see it. And I mean, the three of you speaking about this is an example of that. But do you see that in some ways as as a huge part of of of her legacy and what people will be thinking about generations down the road?

LISA RAITT: I certainly hope so. I mean, that's definitely my experience is that I saw her and I knew I could be her and I. I was able to be elected and go to parliament, which, you know, as the minister said, it's just not something that you would naturally think that you could possibly do. And you get a lot of people telling you along the way that you can't. But what? I hope what Alexa gets known for, and I hope that there is a lot more recognition about the fact that her leadership of the NDP in Nova Scotia really was a launching pad for a movement that showed that the NDP was an option for those who were disenchanted with liberals or conservatives, and that she was a safe place to put your vote. And I think she was the beginning of of what became the Darrell Dexter government and in Nova Scotia NDP government. And it's the fact that her personality alone attracted people to the message and to the party, and she got them to listen to her. And I think that was a skill set that is very rare and one that should be honoured and remembered.

MG: I'm glad to have you all here this morning to remember a force in politics and a real trailblazer. Thank you very much.

GUESTS: Thank you so much. Thank you.

MG: Lisa Raitt, former deputy leader of the Conservative Party Libby Davies, former NDP MP, and Anita Anand as Canada's minister of National Defence, Alexa McDonough died this weekend. She was 77. You're listening to the current on CBC Radio One. My name is Matt Galloway. Last week, a couple of segments that we had on this programme seemed to hit home with you. The first a discussion about the trend of dry January and mindful drinking. The second was about getting a good night's sleep and there may be a connexion between the two. The Current senior producer Karin Marley is here to help sift through your mail. Karin, good morning.

KARIN MARLEY: Good morning, Matt. So let's start with dry January, which is, of course, the trend of giving up booze for the first month of the year. Here's how one of our guests, Ariel Ing Bourbon Aide, described giving up drinking.

SOUNDCLIP

is the hardest and easiest thing. It's the easiest because you just don't pick up a drink. It's the hardest because when you've used that for coping since high school, you know, every time there's a hard emotion or my, you know, my mom was diagnosed with cancer and dealing with a pandemic that was my go to. So that was my stress relief. I deserved it. It was a treat. So to really lose that and actually have to deal with my emotions, which was a big, a big change.

KARIN MARLEY: So the segment got lots of reaction. Like this letter from Joan Garrett in Burlington, Ontario: My journey began eight years ago. My husband was ill, and with the amount of white wine I was drinking, I felt it would be terrible if he needed help or a trip to the hospital when I had had too much wine. For years, I had been a registered nurse, working full time active in my community and church, so I learnt to drink around those times. I was putting out three four litre boxes in the recycling every two weeks. My husband died on January 3rd, 2015. I admit I bought a bottle of wine after his funeral, but I knew I cannot have it in my home and went back on the wagon. One drink was never enough. Dry January is good, but not if the old habit rears its ugly head again.

MG: This from Edmund Dufort in Winnipeg, who wrote: I don't drink, never enjoyed the taste or lost of reason that it could bring about. It can feel lonely not to drink, and I understand how it can be hard to go against something that's so intensely celebrated, socially and promoted. And yet it's still such a real and sad killer of people and families. The agony they can create is incalculable.

KARIN MARLEY: Some listeners told us they've rethought their drinking habits for more than just the health benefits. Thomas Brawn in Ottawa said I've currently put my very moderate consumption of wine and beer aside for simply the cost of it. As a freelance classical musician and music teacher, my career has been put on hold for nearly two years. Something has to give. And amongst other non-essentials, booze is an easy one to drop.

MG: Tim Dawson wrote At the ripe age of 63, I finally started acting on the knowledge that booze affects the way I sleep. Why has it taken so long to stop poisoning myself? For sure. Part of it is social. There's nothing like hoisting a beer with friends and colleagues at home. I've always felt that a glass of wine or beer will help relax me and help me sleep. Invariably, it does the opposite. Then, obviously, I've been ignoring the evidence for decades. The pandemic has helped us make this important change in our lives. It was interesting to hear that we aren't the only ones.

KARIN MARLEY: So trouble sleeping during the pandemic was another story lots of listeners related to. Last week, our guest, Luc Beaudoin, who was a sleep researcher, offered some solutions for people having a hard time falling asleep.

SOUNDCLIP

My first internal recommendation is something akin to mindfulness, which has become more popular. It's basically having acceptance about one's concerns because ultimately this is driven by concerns, you know, to have acceptance that you know, it's it's sometimes we're in for an unpleasant ride. So one strategy, for instance, is for people to journal their their concerns, say it around dinnertime. And then by the time you get into bed, you need a mindset that this is not a place for problem solving.

MG: We asked you to send us your own creative solutions for getting to sleep. We got lots of good ones. Laura Tuck of Bay Roberts, Newfoundland, wrote, I've been using what I call the name game when I can't sleep. First I recite the alphabet, then I have to think of a word for each letter of the alphabet. It can be anything from the names that come to my mind, to vegetables to parts of the body to music groups and so on. I worked as a nurse for years, and I used to give this idea to my patients, and I would say that it worked for 95 percent of them.

KARIN MARLEY: Dianne Evans and Roberts Creek, B.C., also does a little memory exercise before bed, she wrote. I started to use what I call my sleep mantra. I once learnt the names of the United States in alphabetical order. That's what I repeat every night to make the leap into sleep. I often don't get past the MS. This works like a charm, and I wish I'd figured it out a long time ago.

MG: Here's one solution that I'm not entirely sure how to take. We hope it's a compliment. Jan Steinman wrote I've tried lots of things from alcohol to Zen meditation, but what works best is the earbuds and CBC one. Playing in my ears all night, if I find myself drifting into worries about things, I force myself to focus on whatever is playing and I either enjoy the programme or I fall back to sleep. You're public broadcaster is pleased to be a service.

KARIN MARLEY: In many ways, I hope so, Leslie, Ruthie Tabata in Vancouver has to fail proof sleep routines. First, she says, my go to method is to listen to a familiar comedy or sitcom episode that I've watched and listened to many times before. It puts me in a good mood, and it's predictable. I chuckle at the same jokes and slowly let go. My other go to is to snuggle with my dog. He's quite large and I seem to tune into his rhythmic breathing and heartbeats. I got a good hit of dopamine thinking about how much I love him.

MG: Karin, thank you very much.

KARIN MARLEY: Thank you, Matt.

MG: Suggestions for what happens in the middle of the night when you can't fall asleep. Perhaps you could employ those if you have other suggestions or anything else to comment on. Get in touch. We read all of your letters and some of them, as you here, end up on the radio. You can email us thecurrent@cbc.ca. That's The Current for this. Monday will leave you today with something for all of you finding sleep elusive these days. This is a great band and a great piece of music.

SOUNDCLIP

[song]

It's a war on drugs and up all night. I'm Matt Galloway thanks for listening to The Current. We'll see you tomorrow. You'll see.

Monday January 17, 2022 Full Transcript

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