Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2020

The Current Transcript for January 1, 2020

Host: Laura Lynch

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: But I think I have already planning how to become a very good barrister. But at the same time provide my daughter in a solid footing so that she understands how our relationships need to be based on mutual respect.

LAURA LYNCH: Rumana Monzur has transformed her life from one of violence and despair to one of laughter and optimism. Her story coming up. But first, a momentous year ahead for the United States. Happy New Year. I'm Laura Lynch and this is The Current.

[Music: Theme]

What are Trump's chances in 2020? Pundits say it's hard to predict

Guests: Susan Ormiston, Lyndsay Duncombe, Paul Hunter

LL: As you may be pondering how to get started on your New Year's resolutions, U.S. President Donald Trump has already made his clear.

SOUNDCLIP

DONALD TRUMP: Tonight, I stand before you to officially launch my campaign for a second term as president of the United States.

[Cheers]

LL: Now, maybe he should have resolved not to get impeached first, but in any case, 2020 is shaping up to be a year for the ages in U.S. politics and we have rounded up some of the CDC top journalists to help us make sense of a barn burner to come. Susan Ormiston and Paul Hunter are CBS senior Washington correspondent and Lyndsay Duncombe is CBC senior Washington editor. Hello, everybody.

SUSAN ORMISTON: Good morning.

PAUL HUNTER: Hi, Laura.

LYNDSAY DUNCOMBE: Hi, Laura.

LL: Happy New Year to you.

GUESTS: Same to you.

LL: Let's begin with impeachment, which was and continues to be the big story in U.S. politics. Lyndsay, catch us up. Where are we in the process?

LYNDSAY DUNCOMBE: Well, we're sort of in a standoff over the holidays at the moment with House Speaker NancyPelosi delaying putting the articles of impeachment over to the Senate for a trial. Her argument there is that the Democrats do not believe that the trial in the Senate would be fair. And that's because of things that, senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, the top Republican, has said that he doesn't believe that he would be an impartial juror, that he is indeed coordinating with the White House. And the Democrats see this as leverage to perhaps influence how the trial will take place. What they'd really like to see is some of those witnesses that did not come and testify in front of the House hearings, the top aides to the president that defied subpoenas and that's all playing out in court. Unlikely that it's going to go in that direction, unclear how much power the speaker actually has to influence, said the process in House. Bottom line is, for months now, we know how this is going to end. Donald Trump will be acquitted by the Senate. He will be forever marked as president who has been impeached by the House. But given the Republican control in the Senate, regardless of how that trial plays out, Donald Trump will remain in office.

LL: Okay, Susan, how will the fact that this is an election year influence the proceedings in the Senate, do you think?

SUSAN ORMISTON: Well, hugely, because this is the first president to be impeached that has run for a second term. And it's clear from the moment, the night Donald Trump was impeached, standing in front of an another adoring crowd, he said: 'Hmm, this doesn't really feel like impeachment'. And the crowd roared. So he is trying to diminish and minimize the sort of the value of impeachment for the Democrats. And the question is, how successful will that be? It also means that all falls since the impeachment inquiry began, Donald Trump, his team, has been rallying Republicans in the Oval Office, having lunches with people, circling the wagons. And it appears that by the time he was impeached on December 18th, that that was successful strategy. So that means that it is hugely unlikely that we're going to see any defections amongst Republicans in the Senate. Why? Because they've decided that Donald Trump has a good chance of winning in 2020 and they're going to stand behind him and not let the Democrats tear them apart.

LL: Well, Paul talk to me then about those Republicans who have decided to back Trump all the way. What is the strategy for them? Are all of their fortunes hitched to his wagon.

PAUL HUNTER: For 2020? 100 percent. Like, you know, one of the guessing games in Washington is trying to figure out why everybody is, you know, lockstep behind him. And, you know, the only answer anybody can come up with is because everybody is afraid that if they are not, that, you know, there will be a price to pay and that the people who love Trump - and there are millions of them in this country - will make them pay that price and their own electoral futures are at stake. And if I can just add something to what Lyndsey was saying, you know, the thing with the the upcoming aspect of the impeachment process is that no one expected Nancy Pelosi to do this. Nobody expected her to withhold these articles. And she can do it to Trump's annoyance, for as long as she wants. You know, I was talking to a couple of senators on Capitol Hill before the Christmas break, and they said basically this is unchartered territory. It's not like there's a rulebook for it never happened before. But indeed, at the end of the day, he is still going to be an impeached president. And back to Trump Nation for a second, it's my view - and this is supported by polls broadly - people don't care in Trump Nation. A lot of people have tuned out broadly. We know about this guy. We've heard that stuff, yada, yada, yada. Let's just move on to the election.

LL: Okay. Well, President Trump arguably started campaigning for 2020 the day after he was inaugurated. Then his rallies at this point are pretty standard fare.

SOUNDCLIP

DONALD TRUMP: How do you beat what we've done; with the economy, with our great [unintelligible], with choice? We finally got a choice. They've been trying to get it for almost 50 years.

[Cheers]

LL: Paul, just coming back to you for a second, because you mentioned you've been speaking with Trump faithful. What are they telling you about what they see as his strength heading into the election?

PAUL HUNTER: And nobody love this guy. They love- like they- I've never I've covered politics for a long time in Ottawa and in this country. I've never seen anything like it. Like everybody you talk to who is in so-called, you know, air quotes, Trump Nation. He's one of them. He's not the swamp. He's not, you know, a lying, thieving politician, the kind of person that they've gotten nothing from their whole lives. He is a truth teller. He he speaks like them. He swears at the podium, like on TV. He breaks the rules. These are all the reasons that they voted for him in 2016. And he continues to, you know, do the things that they wanted him to do to stir the pot in Washington. I can't tell you how deep the love for Donald Trump is among those in Trump Nation. And he knows that. And he plays to that. It's like, you know, his greatest weakness, would go one argument, is himself, his impetuousness, political inexperience, his thin skin. But in Trump Nation, they love all of that. He speaks to them. And you see that on display at that rally after rally after rally. And to me, as Trump moves toward 2020, he knows all that. It's like in my view. He's like all in on Trump Nation. Yes, he's low in the polls, relatively speaking. But those people are going to vote for him like never before.

LL: Lyndsey, where do you see present that Trump's weaknesses?

LYNDSAY DUNCOMBE: Well, I think his weaknesses would be in terms of what could happen externally. One of the things we have to watch is this economy, because the thing that is perhaps most surprising about Donald Trump's approval numbers and his popularity is, for the past three years, it has not changed it regardless of what happens, whether it's impeachment or foreign policy. There might be a slight move in one direction or another for the president. But those numbers, the people who love him, love him and the people who hate him hate him. So the thing that could potentially shift that would be something external, perhaps if we see a downturn in the economy, because we have to look at the fact that those numbers haven't moved. In the context of the fact that a lot of people are pretty happy with their situation in America right now, their bottom line is decent. And if that were to change, we would have to be looking at Trump's ability to respond to that. And could that change his popularity? I mean, I think Donald Trump is very good at rallying that base. And it has been incredible to see how the window moves in terms of what norms are defied. His own supporters are so concerned for their own political futures that they're not going to move. So it is hard to imagine circumstances that could change that.

LL: All right. Let let's cross the aisle now.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: Hi, I'm Bernie Sanders. I'm running for president.

VOICE 2: The American people get it and they are sick of it.

VOICE 3: Everything that's made America America is at stake. That's why today I'm announcing my candidacy for president of the United States.

VOICE 4: My name is Pete Buttigieg. They call me Mayor Pete. I'm a proud son of South Bend, Indiana. And I am running for president of the United States.

LL: All right. The Democrats are in the midst of trying to narrow the field for their presidential nominee. There are still more than a dozen candidates. Six debates so far. More to come in 2020. Susan, you've been on the campaign trail with some of the candidates. What are you seeing?

SUSAN ORMISTON: Very interesting. I mean, in a way, the impeachment inquiry and the Senate trial to come, if it does in January, has overshadowed this race to be the nominee. And that's working against the Democrats for sure. The size of the race, certainly still, as you said, a dozen or more, still confusing as who they're going to get behind. And what I've heard in various rallies is desperation, quite honestly, desperation that for Democrats, they were worried when Donald Trump was elected president. Now they know what his presidency looks and feels and sounds like. And I've heard people say they're terrified of another term of Donald Trump. So the question is, is that motivating enough to get enough Democrats out to the polls to rally behind the ultimate nominee to beat Donald Trump? But I'll tell you the one thing, the prism with which they're looking at the nominees is this: can this candidate beat Donald Trump? So what happens is some of the interesting characters that have risen like flames in the early fall, like Elizabeth Warren and have settled back down again, Joe Biden, you know, eased off again, his support. Now it seems to be rebounding again. And the question there is with Warren, for example, interesting ideas. I have a plan for almost everything is her mantra. People liked that. I was at a rally where people were really enthused about her as a candidate. But she was seen as too big of a risk, too left to progressive, to, quote, "socialist" for Americans so they can't risk it. This is the thing. Can we risk a candidate that hasn't got a broad enough appeal in that that could lose the race for them? So that's what they're looking at. And they tell us that once the nominee is elected, decided that they will rally behind that nominee. And I think probably that's quite accurate, that for them, that is the sole thing rally behind the nominee. But we got a lot of time yet before that.

LL: And that happens at the conventions. And for the Democrats, that's going to be in Milwaukee this year. For the Republicans, it's in Charlotte. Paul and Lyndsey, you've covered conventions before. I have as well. Most people will only see these things on TV. But take us inside these conventions. Paul, what does it really feel like inside the rooms?

PAUL HUNTER: Where to begin? Complete circus? Totally insane. Supremely fascinating. I mean, I was at the RNC and the DNC in 2016. Outside, it's like political memorabilia, heaven. You know, I mean, the Republican won. It was like the ugliest, most awful anti Hillary T-shirts and buttons and things like that. And I mean, the Democrats were no different; Trump turds and things like that on buttons and whatever.

LL: An elevated debate.

PAUL HUNTER: An elevated debate. Exactly. But, you know, you're walking around in the hallways outside like they're in giant arenas. And I was walking at the Democrat whenn I'm looking, who's that guy? Oh, it's Anthony Wiener. What's he doing? Oh, look, there's Lester Holt. Look, there's oh, there's the entire Fox News team. It's bizarre. You know, I was in the room, I guess. Well, obviously, this was the Republican one when the first lock her up chant began. I remember turning to my producer and thinking, what? What are they saying? We're listening. 'Oh, lock her up'. Oh, my God. Are you joking? You know, so it's like crazy. But at the same time, you can never forget, like it's only present that one of these two people is going to be the most powerful person on the planet. One of these people is going to be president. And, as I say, it's like it's supremely fascinating.

LL: Lyndsay wants to jump in.

LYNDSAY DUNCOMBE: You look at those moments at the conventions, and I think that that's when a lot of the people who have not necessarily been following the nomination races on Twitter. That's when people start paying attention. That's the moment when it goes from being something that really is fascinating political watchers to people going beyond that and looking at the candidates that are ahead of them to be the president. And that's also the moment when we're going to see the tone for the campaign be set. And I think that's why I remember that moment, too, with the 'lock her up'. And it sort of does gives you shivers because you're like all of a sudden we have moved into a new way of talking about politics and about opponents. And that's what was clear in in 2016. And since that time, you know, it's gotten to the point where things are not surprising anymore when they come from the president or his supporters. We've also seen the Democrats, you know, some 'lock him up' chants at their own events. So I think by the time - and oh my goodness to summer feel like it's a long way away - by the time we get to those conventions, those final arguments to the voters, I'm just curious about what the tone of the rhetoric will be like, where we will be at in the summer.

PAUL HUNTER: Ugly. Ugly is the new normal in this country. It's true. And I'll say just one other thing. So, you know, overall on this conversation, one of the lessons from 2016, punditry doesn't count and nobody knows anything because in the 2016 conventions, we all thought she was going to win. It's a lock.

LL: But the thing that that is could be different this time around. And Susan, this makes it even more interesting that you've entered that coverage of this arena in this in this current year with all that's coming up is the possibility. And I know we're still in early days of a contested convention, which we have not seen in decades. Given that there are so many candidates on the Democratic side, it could it be a reality soon?

SUSAN ORMISTON: Well, that's one of the options. I think it's impossible to predict right now what will happen. It's not the optimum for Democrats certainly to go that direction. But I think what's really interesting and what I'm going to be watching in the coming months, up until Super Tuesday, which is March 3rd, is what's happening with the nominations. People like Michael Bloomberg, now, most people would say Michael Bloomberg, who entered the race on November 21st, cannot be seriously a candidate. He will not be in any of the caucuses or the early primaries until March 3rd. But he is what I call a disrupter. So what he's doing is pouring, pouring millions, hundreds of millions dollars into ad campaigns. Not unusual, but the scope and the scale of it is unprecedented. The estimates are that he will pour 400 million dollars into political advertising in the next by the next two months. And that would far exceed what the Obama campaign did over the entire campaign to be president. It dwarfs any of the other Democrat candidates. And what he's spending month by month is much more than the Trump campaign has spent so far on the 2020 campaign for Donald Trump. So you can't look at him and say, well, he's not going to win. You need to look at the Michael Bloomberg aspect is how is he going to disrupt this race? What's going to happen?

PAUL HUNTER: But keep in mind, Donald Trump spent effectively nothing on advertising in 2015, 2016. Because he got so much free time on the various news networks. He did it his way. And that, again, was part of the appeal. He didn't need to spend money on advertising. So I take Susan's point on Bloomberg. But it's like all the rules we've ever known about politics have changed in the last, you know, four and a half years.

SUSAN ORMISTON: Yes, I would agree. I would just add to that. The Bloomberg note is just because it's fascinating to me is that what he's targeting right now is that Democrats right now are spending money on their own campaigns saying, I'm going to be the best nominee. And what he's doing is saying no to chaos. That's one of his slogans. So he's already targeting a lot of money, unprecedented amounts of money at Donald Trump.

LL: Let's just shift a little bit then and talk about how the you the U.S.'s year ahead could affect Canada. Lyndsay, how do you see America in 2020 setting the tone?

LYNDSAY DUNCOMBE: Well, it's interesting because we've had already Justin Trudeau's got a decision to make on how he wants to handle the dispute between California on the carbon issue and climate change, which as it pertains to vehicles. Does he want to side with California or does the government of Canada want to side with the White House? So I think that that idea of having to really navigate this volatile White House and this divided country is going to continue to be a challenge for Canada, especially as the situation just gets so much more intense across the border.

LL: Paul?

PAUL HUNTER: I don't know. You know, it's it's, you know, I'm guilty of having a kind of myopic view of Trump vis a vis Americans. I mean, one of the things I'll be looking for going into 2020 echoes back to to 2016, I think, which is and in a sense, this gets to the Democratic question a second ago, which is who are people lining up to see? It's like ask the audience in a sense. You know, I think it's the New Hampshire primary in 2016, we had been we know we'd seen Marco Rubio and Bernie Sanders and this and the various difference. And we thought, hey, you know what? Trump's got a thing going on outside the town we're in. Let's go. Take a look at this guy. And we got there, on time, couldn't get anywhere near the place. The crowd was too big. Like it was like the fire marshal had come in and shut the place down. And we sort of thought at the time, again, because, of course, she's going to win. We thought, oh, well, you know, we'll catch up with them some other time. But it was like right in front of us, like the enthusiasm was beyond the pale. But we didn't take note of it because it is a TV celebrity guy. He's not gonna go easy. You know, there's a clown aspect to it at the time. So it's right in front of you sometimes.

LL: Okay. And Susan, you are most recently departed of Canada. How do you see Canada, U.S. relations in the new year?

SUSAN ORMISTON: Well, I mean, the trade agreement, that was a big thing for Canada. That seems to be sewn up. We're now hearing that Donald Trump will negotiate another trade agreement with China in mid-January. That would be very well-timed for him. I agree with Lindsey. The economy is going to be a huge watcher here. People like to vote with their pocketbooks. And right now, things feel good. I think there are - just generally about 2020 - there are four things that we need to think about: do people care about impeachment? We need to test that in our reporting. Can Democrats get out the vote? Will this loyalty to Donald Trump hold and what world events could shake that loose? Because these are all the unpredictable things which make this such a fascinating year.

LYNDSAY DUNCOMBE: We do have some information about how the election or voting patterns could play out. And that's the elections we have seen while Donald Trump has been in office. And while Susan is dead right. That there is a lot of, really, fear about Donald Trump getting a second term. We have already seen that fear in the 2018 midterms in state elections translate into higher Democratic voter turnout. What matters is will that be enough and where will those Democrats turn out? Because this election is going to hinge on just a handful of states. Donald Trump's way to win would be through an electoral or electoral college victory.

LL: In the way he did last time.

LYNDSAY DUNCOMBE: The way he did last time. So will that desire or that motivation, depending on who the candidate is, translate in to mobilization in the states that matter. And the other thing to watch is will the states that mattered in 2016, will that conventional wisdom still stay? Because there are massive demographic shifts happening in the United States. And it's been so disorienting to see the impact of the reaction to Trump. What is that going to do in a state like Arizona or in a state like Texas? And we have to kind of erase all of the conventions from our heads and just really observe and see where is that vote coming from and what kinds of issues are people paying attention to?

PAUL HUNTER: I still say I still say, watch Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida. That's it. And the other lesson from 2016, I think Susan was alluding to this earlier, the lesson, voting matters. Get off your behinds and vote. That was the lesson from 2016. The Democrats will note too many of them stayed home because they thought Hillary was going to win because they thought, oh, what's going on there? You know what, there's no there's no penalty if I stay home and vote. Well, they learned that lesson in 2016.

LL: All right. Trump and the impeachment are taken up a lot of airtime in 2019. Susan, let's talk about stories that you wanted to cover that didn't quite get the attention they should have gotten the last year.

SUSAN ORMISTON: Well, I am a relative newbie in Washington, certainly in comparison to my two colleagues here. So it's only been a couple of months and we've been pretty busy. So it's hard to come up with exactly what we haven't covered. But I think, again, we go back to the economy. Climate change is another. Will there be climate, weather related events in the U.S. which will challenge Donald Trump's approach to climate? I'm interested that still in his stump speeches, he regularly denigrates wind power, as you know, something to be laughed at in his stump speech. So these types of things, I'm also interested because it's not that a story that hasn't been covered. But this massive aviation company, Boeing, is under a huge amount of pressure, as we've seen through the hearings. And now the CEO has recently departed. Will they be able to recover, get those planes up in the air in 2020? And what will the slowdown in their manufacturing do for the the jobs? You know, it's a huge company in the United States. So it's not just will the Max 8 fly again, but what effect does that have economically?

LL: Lyndsay.

LYNDSAY DUNCOMBE: There are families from Central America on the border of the United States with Mexico as a result of the Trump administration's remain-in-Mexico policy. And those are unregulated refugee camps there. They're dangerous. And it is one of those stories that, you follow up to the the lead up to it. And I just think it's really important that we go back and connect with those people as soon as possible, because, you know, that stuff is playing out in real time.

LL: Paul.

PAUL HUNTER: Guns in America. I mean, you're right. Trump sucks up so much oxygen. There are so many stories in this country that get pushed aside because of Trump. For me, we can't do enough stories on guns. You know, I was at a CPAC conference not too long ago and I saw a guy wearing an NRA. I said, you know, like, what do you own? And said, I got an AR-15. What? Why? He lives in Fort Lauderdale - because of maybe a home invasion. I want to be able to defend myself. We talked to guys who own a AR-15 so they can kill wild hogs. Like nobody talks about guns in this country unless there is a mass shooting. And in fairness, then it gets attention and then it goes away. You know, in Baltimore, just outside D.C., 344 killings in 2019, 344 in Baltimore, city of 600,000. No one talks about it. People in Baltimore have told me why. Because we're black is the ugly truth. No one cares. No one notices. Not enough people care. And I don't think we can do enough stories on that. But Trump is a major mega super important story that has to be covered. The challenges in finding time to do both.

LL: All right. I think all three of you for your generosity of time and insights. And I look forward to all of your reporting in the new year. Thanks to all three of you.

SUSAN ORMISTON: Thank you.

PAUL HUNTER: Thanks, Laura.

LYNDSAY DUNCOMBE: Thanks, Laura. Happy New Year.

LL: Happy New Year. Susan Ormiston and Paul Hunter, our CBS senior correspondent in Washington. And Lyndsay Duncombe is the senior Washington editor.

[Music]

Untying the knot

Guests: Rumana Monzur

LL: I'm Laura Lynch, and you're listening to The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

RUMANA MONZUR: Then I got married and it felt like my dreams were completely shattered. I literally fell to like a bird in a cage who can't go anywhere, can't do anything, can't say anything, because every time I spoke, every time I tried to do something, every time I wanted to go somewhere, I had to take permission.

LL: Rumana Monzur was in her early 20s when she got married in Bangladesh. When her daughter was 4. She went to Vancouver to study at the University of British Columbia. The freedom of living in Canada gave Rumana the resolve to go home and demand a divorce from her controlling husband. He didn't take it well and his fit of rage left room on a blind and near deaf. A documentary called Unying the Knot tells her inspiring story. A woman who survived unthinkable violence to help others escape similar fates in Canada. I spoke with Rumana months or in November, a warning. Our interview deals with graphic descriptions of abuse and contains language that some might find offensive.

LL: What brought you from Bangladesh to British Columbia?

RUMANA MONZUR: I was at that time a junior lecturer at the University of Dhaka in international relations. And of course, I wanted to pursue higher studies abroad. I just wanted to do a PhD in environmental security. And I fell in love with the UBC campus and then accepted their offer. And that's what brought me here.

LL: So you are 32, a mother, married, teaching at Dhaka University. And you tell your family that you're leaving for Canada. How did how did they react?

RUMANA MONZUR: Well, of course, my parents were really supportive. They were always supportive even when I told my daughter she was very supportive, too. But the only one who wasn't supportive and then made it very, very hard for me is my husband. Of course, my marriage was never a happy marriage. It was always abusive. He was very abusive from the very beginning. But at that time, when I told him that I wanted to go abroad for higher studies and I was already accepted, I got offer letters from two universities. He got really mad and tried to make it as hard as possible. But, you know, I've I guess I was totally determined at the time that I wanted to come and then focus on my career.

LL: In fact, at that point, you weren't even living with him, were you?

RUMANA MONZUR: No.

LL: But leaving and coming to UBC meant leaving your daughter behind. What was that like for you?

RUMANA MONZUR: It was very hard. It was very hard for me to make that decision. But at the same time, deep down inside me, I knew that I was doing it for her and for myself. I knew that I could take care of her. And I guess I started thinking about divorce. But at that time, too many things to settle before I was coming here. So I thought that, okay, when I go back. That's when I will get custody of her and then finalize divorce.

LL: Right. So you go back to Bangladesh partly because you needed to do some research, but also because you wanted to talk to your husband to go to get a divorce. What made you finally decide this is it, I'm going to get a divorce?

RUMANA MONZUR: So when I came to Canada, what I realized, I guess, that detachment and not experiencing abuse every single day, every single moment gave me that clear mind that was necessary to get my confidence back. And that's what I got. And so when I returned to Bangladesh, I knew that this would be I'm totally determined to get a divorce. I don't want to live with someone who doesn't have any respect for my career and for myself as a human being. And nothing good is going to happen for my daughter. I'm not serving her best interest. I guess those were the thoughts that forced to me and then help to me to get the courage to tell him that I wanted a divorce.

LL: Courage is the right word because it must have still been so hard for you to do. Tell me how you did it.

RUMANA MONZUR: I thought the conversation went really well because I told him there was no argument. I told him you needed to be with someone who loves you. And I don't think I'm the right person. I never could love you for what you have done on our wedding night.

LL: Which was?

RUMANA MONZUR: Rachel was he slapped me for asking him why he arrived at the wedding three hours late and that was it. And his comments were never ask me another question. Never in your life. So that was his reaction to the whole thing. And I understood that, okay, this is not a person who I thought would be my partner. So completely dreams are shattered. And I just know from that moment that I don't belong to this person. So that's what I told him, that I wanted a divorce and he left. But within just ten days of that conversation, 10 or 15, I don't remember now, so that's when he came to my parents house and none of my parents were home at that time. And that's when he attacked me.

LL: And it was violent. What happened to you that day when he came back? Because initially when you told him he'd seemed calm.

RUMANA MONZUR: Yes, he was calm. And I thought that he took it very mature. He was mature, but of course it appears that he didn't. He was just I guess planning what he wanted to do with me. And that's when [unintelligible] came, June 5, the fifth of June in the afternoon, around maybe 1:30 or 2:00 o'clock. So I was working on my laptop because I had to work on my thesis and then plan my trip to the areas which I wanted to visit to collect data for my thesis. And my back was facing the entrance of my parents' bedroom. And so I didn't know that he came in. So he snuck into the room from behind me and locked the door from inside and the TV was on. So I didn't until it was too late, I didn't even know his presence in the room. And that's when he just didn't waste any time. He pulled my hair and then just pinned me on the bed and then strangled me to that point where I was choking and I was getting weaker. But I still didn't stop struggling because I thought that I'm dying. And that's when he released me my neck. But then his hands, he put both his fingers deep into my eyes and trying to gouge them out. And he, also at that point, I was so much in pain and he bit a tip of my nose off. And also he took a flesh out of my right forearm. So I was bleeding so much at that point. And to my horror, at one point, I realized that I wasn't able to see anything anymore. And I guess I didn't know at that time that that would be the last time that I could see anything.

LL: How awful this all is. Where was your daughter as he was attacking you?

RUMANA MONZUR: She was in that same room. She was just five at the time. And she was right next to me, colouring her picture. So she was busy with the colouring book when it started. And then she was just trying to pull him off my chest when he was doing it. And then that's the moment. And I was screaming at the top of my voice. But of course, for the television, I think the maids were not able to hear me at first, but then they entered. When they entered the room, they found me in a pool of blood. And he ran away. But before he left here, his threatened me that he would find me and kill me.

LL: What's the last thing that you remember about that day?

RUMANA MONZUR: I, for some reason, I remember everything that followed after that I was taken to the hospital. I got admitted at the intensive care unit. My face was a complete disaster. I had bruises. They had to put stitches on my forehead. Also, some parts of my hair was gone. They had to shave it. So they had to treat those things first. And I was not able to open my eyes. I was completely- I was in so much pain that no one could even touch my eyes, or go close to my eyes.

LL: I've seen the images of you giving the press conference from your hospital bed. Your eyes are swollen shut, your bruised, your bandaged. Why did you decide to speak to the media?

RUMANA MONZUR: Just to saw that he was put in jail? Because I brought charges against him. I did not want him to go unpunished for what he has done. And I don't think that he, no matter even if I'm the worst person in the world. No one has the right to treat someone, another human being like that, especially if that is your partner. And I just could not believe that he did something like that. I always knew that he wasn't a good person, but I never knew that he was capable of doing something like that.

LL: After that, how long were you lying in that hospital bed recovering?

RUMANA MONZUR: In just one month of that attack. I returned to Vancouver. Two weeks after that attack, we went to India for better eye treatment. And then they told me that, told us the same thing that they y didn't see any hope that I would get my sight back.

LL: And that was confirmed when you came to Vancouver.

RUMANA MONZUR: Yes.

LL: I'm wondering what that was like for you when you realized that that was going to be it.

RUMANA MONZUR: I guess you can understand like at that time, I was devastated. But I guess what kept me going as my instinct as a mother. I knew that I had to take care of a five year old who is looking up to me and who was totally dependent on me. And I guess my responsibilities, as a mother did not let me lock myself in a corner and grieve for my loss.

LL: But you could have been forgiven for her, at least having some moments when you were thinking, what am I going to do now? I can't return to my studies. I can't see anymore. There must have been some moments of real despondency and sadness.

RUMANA MONZUR: Yes, of course there were. And then what I figured out that, okay, I told myself, you have three options here - and pardon my language here - you are in complete shit. But then so you can either decide to stay in that shit. And the second option is to get up, but kind of still smell the smell. And the third option was to get up as quickly as possible and move forward and go far away from there. So I guess the third option was of more favour to me.

LL: And as you said, and inspired by the fact that you were still a mother and you had a child to raise.

RUMANA MONZUR: Yes. Yes, totally.

LL: What happened to your husband after the attack then and after you had this news conference?

RUMANA MONZUR: So after that news conference, they were they were still trying to capture him. And that's when the whole society, the whole Bangladeshi community, everyone in Bangladesh they were- I had received so much support. And High Court actually gave an ultimatum to the police force to capture him within 24 hours. And that's when he was captured. So after I came here, six months after that attack, when he was behind bars, and that's when we heard the news that he died in the prison hospital, and then the duty doctor said that it was a cardiac arrest.

LL: What did you tell your daughter?

RUMANA MONZUR: My daughter and I had so many conversations about this topic. And what I tried to tell her is we should look at him as an unfortunate soul who could not appreciate what he had. And I guess it's not that she- she never has any hesitation to talk about him. And then sometimes when I ask her if she misses a dad, having a dad, she just tells me it's better to have one parent, then you have less rules.

LL: Smart. Was she always that way when she was young, when it just happened, was there any sadness on her part?

RUMANA MONZUR: I think she was sad. She just could not accept the fact that I was not mom she always had, who used to play with there. Take her out. Take her to the playground. Do monkey bars with her. So at one point that she was asking me to do all these things the chores that I used to do for her. Like giving her a shower, like a bath and then putting her clothes on because of course, she was young. She needed help with those. And I guess that was the happiest moment in my life after that incident when I realized that, oh, she is getting her confidence back.

LL: And so were you.

RUMANA MONZUR: Yes. Yes, totally, totally.

LL: If we can go back to go back to the decisions you had to make about what was next in terms of school. You clearly loved school and you loved studying and studying was going to be a different thing. Tell me how you study after you lost your eyesight.

RUMANA MONZUR: I guess that's where UBC played a huge role in supporting me. They have a volunteer reading service. Volunteer readers have read all those legal documents, all the articles that I needed for my master's thesis. And I was given all of those articles in a CD. So I used to listen to the CDs and I would make my own notes in the recorder. Also UBC also provided an assistant research assistant for me who would help me navigate the website and then finally that person would also help me to type it out because of course I didn't know how to use a computer at that time. So with all this support, I guess gradually, it was a gradual process.

LL: And that wasn't enough, getting your masters. You decided you wanted to go to law school when you get a law degree, why? Why law?

RUMANA MONZUR: By that time I realized how empowering law laws. And of course, I guess at that point I wanted to raise my voice against injustice in our society. And then having a daughter made me more strong, that, okay, definitely have wanted to share my voice and share my story and be the voice for those people who doesn't have a voice. And the first step to do this thing is to empower myself with the right tools. And I felt that the law could provide me, empower me, with those tools.

LL: And you did it. You graduated and you're working now as a lawyer, is that correct?

RUMANA MONZUR: Yes. I'm practicing in Vancouver.

LL: What kind of work are you doing?

RUMANA MONZUR: I am in litigation. So my job is more in the courts. Yes. And I enjoy doing it because sometimes people assume that not having my side would kind of push me to award to being a solicitor, which is a desk work, more desk work and documentary related. But I just love to be on my feet. And I guess that's when some of my friends told me that you always have to take tough routes. But I guess that's what I love doing. I want to be in court.

LL: So in the film, Untying the Knot, we also meet three other women in Dhaka. And I just want you to listen to Naima.

SOUNDCLIP

I'm handling the company. I'm a head of HR. I'm handling five hundred employees under me. I can take care of myself. I have that sense of responsibility. Men think they are superior of women in our society. Men think they are the controller of our life, the dominator of our life, the protector of our life. Now, if I, Naima, comes out all of a sudden I say, no, I'm the protector of my life. I'm the controller of my life. It's tough to digest that.

LL: Naima. She's just a remarkable character. Tell me more about her.

RUMANA MONZUR: She is very confident, a lovely character.

LL: I wonder what you hope people can take away from seeing her and listening to her and the other women.

RUMANA MONZUR: Of course, self-confidence is important, but I also know going through, like a experiencing intimate partner violence myself, I know that it's hard to have that confidence when you are experiencing abuse for a long time. So my message to women who are experiencing abusive relationships, I guess what I want to tell them is that your life is- it's precious. So don't just to wasted because you were married to someone who doesn't have any understanding about the foundation of any relationships. And then I also want to tell them life is full of opportunities if I can do it. They all can.

LL: When you reflect on all you've been through and all that you have accomplished, I'm wondering how you're feeling about your life right now.

RUMANA MONZUR: I think I just don't know when to stop and how to stop. Now I think I've already planning how to become a very good barrister, but at the same time, you know, provide my daughter in a solid footing so that she understands how relationships need to be based on mutual respect. And also, I teach her to be helpful. Because only because of hope and only that positive attitude, I guess, kept me going. I just didn't want to give up and let him win or let his evil intentions win.

LL: In the film, you have this lovely line. You say that you've lost your eyesight but gained your vision.

RUMANA MONZUR: Yes.

LL: What do you mean by that?

RUMANA MONZUR: For example, I will give you an example a wall, which is basically obviously an obstacle to everyone, right? So but for me, I for a wall is a landmark that leads me to the right door. So I guess if people have that perspective and looks at obstacles of it, that attitude, they can overcome everything. And I guess that is what I mean, that I didn't see many things but when I lost my sight that's when I started seeing. And now I see people with my heart, which is genuine, more genuine than being, you know, biased by their appearance. I guess that's what I meant by that. And also, I feel that I see the world. I see the world with my other senses. I can hear, I can taste, I can smell, I can touch. So I feel that I see many things which sighted people miss all the time.

LL: The last thing I want to ask you about is your daughter. I'm wondering, when you think about her, what do you hope for her?

RUMANA MONZUR: I want her to have a very vibrant life, but I also tell her to be a good human being first, and then I just don't want her to be do something amazing or crazy. I told her that, yes, I want a smart kid, but I want a good kid more than a smart kid. That's what I tell her all the time. And also, I guess I want her to be hopeful and then look at the bright side in everything that everything even if it the look seems bad to her for the time being.

LL: Has she said anything to you about what she wants to be when she grows up?

RUMANA MONZUR: Oh, it's changing all the time. First a pilot to then a dentist, now a model. And now I don't know what's coming.

LL: But that's the thing. She can be whatever she wants.

RUMANA MONZUR: Exactly. Exactly. But she does ask me that. Okay, mama, how many diplomas did you have after high school? And I said four. And then she is like, okay. Don't expect anything like that. And I tell her, yes, I expect at least eight not four.

LL: Rumana Monzur, you are an inspiration. It's just been such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you.

RUMANA MONZUR: Oh, thank you, Laura, for having me.

LL: Rumana Monzur is a lawyer at the Department of Justice in Vancouver, and I spoke with her in November. That is our program for today. Stay tuned to Radio 1 for Q and if you have a minute. Check out the new CBC. Listen out because it lets you discover all the best in Canadian audio from CBC Radio, CBC podcasts and CBC music and that, of course, includes The Current. Since today is New Year's Day, we thought we'd leave you with an oldie but goodie. U2's New Year's Day, even though the song isn't actually about New Year's Day. U2 frontman Bono wrote it about Polish Labour leader Lech Walesa and the country's solidarity movement. Who knew? Not me. Laura Lynch. Happy New Year and thanks for listening.

SOUNDCLIP

[Song: New Year's Day by U2]

Wednesday January 1, 2020 Full Episode Transcript

Social Sharing

More from this episode