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The Current Transcript for August 10, 2016

Host: Connie Walker

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Listen to the full episode

Prologue

SOUNDCLIP

This is just an unbelievable performance, a world record for the Iron Lady. And there's the guy responsible for turning his wife into a whole different swimmer.

CONNIE WALKER: The gold medal winner was Hungarian swimmer Katinka Hosszú, a woman. So, no surprise that that NBC commentator has drawn a lot of criticism for seeming to give the credit for setting a new world record to her husband. Just the latest example, according to many media watchers, of sexism in the coverage of the 2016 Rio Games. We'll dive into that debate today first up. And later, another remarkable woman getting the credit she's been long overdue.

SOUNDCLIP

It was not for my personal sake. I don't need a doctor’s title anymore, but I did care for all of us who had a similar fate, probably much worse. For them I do it.

CW: She's the oldest graduate in Germany, though she started that PhD three quarters of a century ago. At the time, the Nazis blocked her from her graduation day, but the honour’s being bestowed now all these years later. Her story in our documentary, The 102 year old woman who crammed for her doctorate. I'm Connie Walker, and you're listening to the summer edition of The Current.

Rio 2016: Female Olympians face sexism in media

SOUNDCLIP

And this is just an unbelievable performance, a world record for the Iron Lady. And there's the guy responsible for turning his wife into a whole different swimmer.

CONNIE WALKER: The gold medal winner was Hungarian swimmer Katinka Hosszú, a woman. So no surprise that that NBC commentator has drawn a lot of criticism for seeming to give the credit for setting a new world record to her husband. Just the latest example, according to many media watchers, of sexism in the coverage of the 2016 Rio Games. I'm Connie Walker, and you're listening to this summer edition of The Current.

[Music: John Williams]

CW: While it’s the pinnacle of human achievement on display right now at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games, athletes from around the world are pushing the limits of excellence. Athletes like Corey Cogdell on Rhyne, an American woman who won her first bronze medal at the 2008 Olympic Games, and once again proved herself among the best in the world in Rio, winning the bronze medal in trap shooting, after a dramatic shoot off on Sunday. Yet this is how the Chicago Tribune announced her accomplishment on Twitter.

SOUNDCLIP

Wife of a Bears linesman wins a bronze medal today in Rio Olympics.

CW: Yes, the paper didn't even mention her by name and the Twitter sphere noticed.

SOUNDCLIP

@LauraKeeny: Hey @Chicago Tribune, I fixed your tweet: three-time Olympian Corey Cogdell wins a bronze medal today in Rio Olympics. P.S. maybe edit the article to focus on her achievements #Olympics.

CW: Unfortunately, this example of a high achieving athlete introduced as Mrs. So-and-So is not the only example of sexism that's been called out in the Rio 2016 media coverage so far. Whether it's referring to women athletes as girls, or undue attention being paid to their appearances, sexist coverage is nothing new, according to Sarah Grieves, Language Research Project Manager at Cambridge University Press.

SOUNDCLIP

When we look at the language used to describe male athletes, we find things like fastest, strong, best, great. So, words describing their prowess as athletes. Whereas when we look at the language used to describe women, we find things like married, unmarried, and we find descriptions of what they're wearing, and aged, so age 30, age 25. So there just isn't that same focus on their abilities as athletes. We're interested in their personal lives and their appearance, which is a huge discrepancy I think.

CW: Today is part of our occasional series Eye on the Media. We will explore why female athletes are often covered in a way that undercuts their achievements. For more on this I'm joined by two guests, Cassie Campbell Pascall is a three-time Olympian and was captain of two gold medal winning hockey teams. She now works for Rogers covering women's hockey and as an analyst for men's hockey on Hockey Night in Canada. Cassie Campbell Pascall is in Calgary. And Sarah Beauchamp is a freelance writer for the Huffington Post in New York. Hello.

MANY VOICES: Hi there.

CW: Good morning, thanks for joining me. Sarah let's start with you, what do you make of the quality of the reporting at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games?

SARAH BEAUCHAMP: I think it's been pretty disappointing. I don't think it's very surprising the things that they're saying, given that we've all sort of been socialized to believe these certain things about women. That they're not as strong, they're not real athletes, you know, sports are for men, and women are just sort of a part of that. That's why they're constantly comparing them to their male counterparts. They sort of can't shake that, and that you know, that's not shocking, but I think it's great that people are calling it out. And I think what is surprising is NBC’s sort of inability to take credit for it and use it as an opportunity for dialogue and for learning. I feel like they've been ignoring it. And a lot of the newscasters who’ve been caught out are being defensive and not really seeing the point of what we're trying to say, which has been surprising and disappointing.

CW: Generally speaking, like what type of coverage do you consider sexist?

SARAH BEAUCHAMP: I would say every time one is doing like, a female athlete is really performing well, it's oh she's doing that just as well as a man, which I heard a ton, calling them girls, calling grown women girls when they're competing. Giving the credit to someone else, sort of trying to figure out how could this woman be this talented and successful. There must be another reason. It must be her husband or her coach. I would consider that to be sexist. And also, the NBC CMO’s (Chief Marketing Officer) comments about you know, women not really being sports fans or being more into reality TV. I would say that that was pretty blatantly sexist as well.

CW: Cassie Campbell Pascall, how would you rate the way that female Olympians are being covered by the media?

CASSIE CAMPBELL PASCALL: Well I, you know, I guess I'm lucky to be watching you know, the coverage up here in Canada and you know, a lot of my colleagues like Ron McLean, Scott Russell, who follow the Olympic movement you know, not just every four years, they're great researchers and they really know their stuff. And I can tell you the celebration of women, and how much has been talked about women you know, here in Canada in particular— it's been fantastic. And I think obviously the performances have been speaking for themselves. And the fact that it's you know, really been women who have been winning all our medals. And so there's been a great celebration of our women's soccer team, and our women's rugby team, and Penny Oleksiak, and all the swimmers, and the synchronized divers, who've been winning our medals. And you know for me, I think my wish as a former athlete is just wishing this type of coverage existed not just during the Olympics for women's sports, but while they're competing for their club teams in between those four year cycles. I think, you know, that's sort of been my issue of the coverage of female sports, is it just doesn't happen consistently enough throughout the Olympic cycle.

CW: What about the examples that we've just heard from NBC commentators, and other people outside of Canada, just in terms of the coverage of these Olympic Games?

CASSIE CAMPBELL PASCALL: Yeah, you know, I haven't heard or watched any of the NBC coverage. Based on articles I've read, and obviously you know, the comments we've heard already, some of those comments are definitely unfortunate. And you know, I'm not going to sit here and say that sexism doesn't exist, I think it exists for both male and females at times. You know, you look at the opening ceremonies and the one young flag bearer who came in and he has no shirt and he was all oiled up. I mean, there was a lot of issues if you can look at sexism that surrounded that as well. But I think it's unfortunate, I think sexism does exist. There's no question about it, but I do think it is not done with a purpose to be sexist. I think a lot of times people who cover Olympic sports don't do their homework. They haven't put the research time in. You know, they're thrown into situations they've never been thrown into before to cover sports. Whether it's a news person covering sports, or whether it's a sports person who's never covered a particular sport. I think that's often when you get sort of the criticism of the coverage. And you know, again, watching my colleagues like Mark Lee, and guys who put the time in to cover their sport and do their research, I think you can really tell the difference between people who’ve put the time in to cover the sport, who’ve done their research, to those that maybe make these comments simply because they don't know anything else to say, or they don't know the stories behind the scenes and they just simply haven't done their homework.

CW: Well, we're definitely going to talk a bit more about some of the Canadian coverage coming up. But Sarah Beauchamp some of the coverage, including CBC, has used the term girl power when referring to female athletes. Do you think that's an appropriate way to speak about Olympians?

SARAH BEAUCHAMP: I think that's an interesting phrase, just because it is sort of one that women own and it kind of came out of women empowerment. Sort of owning girl power and coming together, and not being seen as like women attacking one another, which is another thing that we've sort of been taught about women growing up, is that they're very competitive and cutthroat with one another, when that's not the case. So I think girl power is specific in that it's referencing something positive for women. I think it's all about context with the words that we use. And there’s a big difference between celebrating girl power and referring to you know, one of the best gymnastics team in the world as girls standing around talking at the mall, which is what an NBC newscaster said. I think it's just all about context and there's a huge difference between those two uses of the word girl.

CW: What was wrong with referring to those gymnasts as girls?

SARAH BEAUCHAMP: I think it’s just the mall comment, it just showed again it's like, you're not trying to be malicious of course, and I understand it's live TV. You know, like you're saying, covering this stuff if they're not researched, I get that for sure it can be difficult. But it just shows that like, I mean for him to have said oh they look like boys standing around the mall, you just wouldn't hear that, like to your ears that just sounds very bizarre. And often the newscasters are saying oh she was just a little girl the last games, like I can't even imagine them saying Michael Phelps was a little boy last time. It just sounds bizarre. So I think it's just evidence that we've become so accustomed to these weird references, and weird ways of speaking of women. And that mall comment was one of those, where it's like, that shouldn't be something that we're saying about these very successful athletes.

CW: Cassie Campbell Pascall, even Prime Minister Justin Trudeau used the word girls when congratulating the Canadian women's rugby sevens. Do you think there is an issue or problem with calling women girls?

CASSIE CAMPBELL PASCALL: Not really, I mean I understand what Sarah is saying, the mall comment you know, I think that's a little bit much. And you know, it's interesting, it is similar to the language we use inside a dressing room, like come on girls. And in fact, we sometimes call each other guys, come on guys, you know, let's pick it up. So I think from an athlete perspective you know, it's very similar to talk to what we would say to each other inside a dressing room. To be honest with you, as a hockey player, if someone called me a defense woman rather than a defenseman, I'd probably be offended. Because it's a term that's you know, I just want to be called a defenseman, because that's the term I know, that's the term we use within our culture, and it kind of doesn't differentiate us. It's just treating us like one of the boys, and I think you know, I understand it, I think it depends on the context in which it's used. I think congratulating the girls, I don't think there was any ill intent by it. I think, you know, Ron MacLean was speaking to the women's rugby team, referred to them as girls. And I don't think there was any negativity towards that, I think that legitimately is a sport term within female athletes. And so you know, I can understand maybe from the outside looking in, or looking at it from a bit more social context it may look like it's derogatory, but it is a very common term within the sporting culture. And I guess it just depends on the way it's said and you know, I think it was very disrespectful to mention a mall when talking about the women's gymnastics team. I mean, I think it's what, their eighth gold medal in a row. I think there were so many other great statistics that probably could have been said there, or probably could have been used there. That you know, they almost probably look like they didn't even break a sweat to win a gold medal, something along those lines, rather than that context. So I agree with Sarah on that point that it was probably a little uncalled for in that sense.

CW: Sarah, we've just heard how some media outlets have been criticized for identifying female athletes in relation to their male family members. What do you make of that?

SARAH BEAUCHAMP: I think it's again evidence of just the way we've all been socialized. I think for some, especially older men, they're just more comfortable speaking about women in the context of being mothers or wives, rather than being these competitors and these like fierce equals. So I think it just takes getting used to it, and having conversations like this. And when we do hear these words being used and hear these athletes being identified by their you know, home life or by their husbands, or by the fact that they're new mothers, or whatever it is, I think it's important that we call it out and you know, say why that's not OK, and why they deserve to be spoken about in the same way that men are in the context of sports.

CW: Cassie do you think that that's insulting to the female athletes, to be referred to in relation to the accomplishments of their brothers or husbands?

CASSIE CAMPBELL PASCALL: You know, I think generally it is part of the story. You know, it is part of the human interest story and you know, it was interesting when I was speaking with your producer yesterday, a funny story kind of came to my mind. Two years ago, my husband left Hockey Canada to take a job with the Calgary Flames as the assistant general manager and you know, he had a really nice article written about him you know, here in the Calgary paper. And I was mentioned, I'm his wife you know--

CW: [interposing] Did it say Cassie Campbell Pascal’s husband?

CASSIE CAMPBELL PASCALL: You know, the article didn't but it did talk about his wife was you know, a former Olympian. You think of Tom Brady, you know, Tom Brady is a great NFL quarterback and you know often, and I watch men's football all the time and you know, you often hear about Gisele, his supermodel wife. And you know, I think again it is part of the human interest story of sport. And you know, you look at Penny Oleksiak, her brother plays for the Dallas Stars. He was there watching her and so they showed him, and I think sometimes it can be used too much. You know, she's the wife of this, she's this and that, but I think it does go enough the other way. At least in my life I see it kind of go the other way as well, where you know, my accomplishments are celebrated alongside an article on my husband. And I do think we're seeing a change and a shift in how much people are you know, not only interested in the male’s stats and what he can do on the field, but they're also more interested in his personal life, and things they are doing. And I think we've seen a shift with that. And I also think we've seen a shift, although not completely perfect, about how women's sport is covered in the sense that you know, they are talking about how strong they are and how fit their bodies are, and they are talking about their performances. And they’re talking a little bit less about you know, who their husbands are, how many kids they have. But I can tell you as an athlete, to watch my teammates go through having a child and then be able to compete less than a year later at the Olympic Games, that is a huge story. I think that's a remarkable accomplishment to go through such a physical change you know, delivering a baby and then to put your body back together and to perform at the unbelievable level. I think that's an accomplishment that men cannot do. And I think that's something as women we should be extremely proud of, and we should be extremely understanding how difficult of a task that can be for some athletes.

CW: Cassie you mentioned Penny Oleksiak, and I want to play a clip for you. This is actually a clip of Ron MacLean, who is a veteran hockey and sports broadcaster speaking with Penny Oleksiak just after she won a silver medal in Rio. Now, Ron spends one minute in this four and a half minute interview talking to Penny about her brother, who's a professional hockey player, including playing a clip of when he was drafted into the NHL, and then going on to talk about his first goal. Let's take a listen.

SOUNDCLIP

RON MACLEAN: And his is a funny moment. Watch he scores, it goes off Patrik Berglund, the St. Louis Blue, and Berglund will actually chirp at him as he's going back to the bench. Watch Jaime turn around and say what? Someone is saying you're not taking credit for that goal are you? That was mine. [laughing] One of the St. Louis Blues had some fun with it, but that's neat to see too. You must be very proud of Jamie, tell me.

PENNY OLEKSIAK: Yeah, for sure.

CW: So, Sarah what do you think of that? Is there anything wrong with spending so much time in this interview after her silver medal win talking about her brother and his draft and his goal?

SARAH BEAUCHAMP: You know, I agree with Cassie that all of this is like a part of the story, I think everyone loves a good narrative when it comes to things like this. But yeah, I think it is a little disappointing and I'm sure that you know, maybe that wasn't what she really wanted to focus on. I think a little bit it just detracts from all the hard work that she's put into what she's done. And now she sort of still has to talk about her brother's achievements, which I'm sure she's very used to doing. So it is a little disheartening, and it just I think again comes from a place of the newscasters comfort. This is what they're comfortable talking about. And this is maybe what they assume the audiences care more about, because women sports and women athletes have been considered lesser-than, and sort of not gotten as much attention as men for as long as sports have been around.

CW: Cassie do you agree with that?

CASSIE CAMPBELL PASCALL: Yes, to some degree. You know, I think, I have a feeling that, and I can't believe I'm forgetting her brother's name, isn’t that funny? But you know, I have a feeling he's going to be talking a lot about his sister now in the future. And you know, when you watch the Dallas Stars on Hockey Night in Canada, I have a feeling Penny’s name is going to come up. And you know, it's similar to a story here, Darnell Nurse, he plays for the Edmonton Oilers, and his sister Kia Nurse is a huge star on our women's basketball team. And they also have a cousin Sarah Nurse who is going to be you know, a star in the women's hockey rank. She's actually at a camp here at Hockey Canada training for the under-22 program. And it's funny now that we know Kia is Darnell's sister, Darnell kind of gets it a little bit more now because Kia was such a star for the women's basketball team, in particular at the Pan Am Games just over a year ago. And you know, now when his name is mentioned her name is mentioned. And again I think the underlying essence of it is it is a human interest story. Wow, this is an athletic family. His uncle is Donovan McNabb and you know, his parents were both athletic and you know, I don't know if that part of it is sexism. I truly believe it is a human interest story and whether or not a minute should have been spent on her brother, I'm not sure but I think Ron was really trying to open up a 16 year old girl to maybe talk about things that had influence on her. You know, what kind of an influence did her brother have on her. And you know, I remember seeing that interview and I thought it was you know, it was just tough. She's an unbelievable athlete, but she's new to the Olympic stage. She was probably so nervous to be sitting there talking to Ron MacLean as I would be, because you know, it's a big moment. And I think you know, it was Ron's way of trying to make her feel comfortable and I don't think there was any ill intent, and hoping that maybe she would open up about a story you know, of her brother's influence on her or how you know, his athletic career inspired her, or whatever the case may be. So again, it just depends on I think the way you look at things sometimes, but you know maybe a little less than a minute and a half could have been spent on it for sure.

CW: Well, we did ask CBC for a comment about this exchange and Greg Stremlaw, the Executive Director of CBC Sports and general manager for the Rio 2016 Olympic Games sent us this quote. “In this interview we use the NHL Draft footage to tell a heartwarming story, a heartwarming human story drawing a parallel between how Penny was by her brother's side on his big day, and how he was there to support her in Rio. The intent was certainly not to compare the achievements of two incredibly talented athlete siblings.” So thank you both very much for joining us. We're going to have to leave this discussion there, but we really appreciate you offering us your perspectives.

SARAH BEAUCHAMP: Thank you.

CASSIE CAMPBELL PASCALL: Thank you very much.

CW: Cassie Campbell Pascall is a three-time Olympian and was captain of two gold medal winning hockey teams. Now she works for Rogers covering women's hockey and is an analyst for men's hockey with Hockey Night in Canada. She was in Calgary. And Sarah Beauchamp is a freelance writer for The Huffington Post. She was in New York. The Current also reached out to NBC for comment but we did not hear back. I'm Connie Walker, and you're listening to the summer edition of The Current.

[Music: Extro]

ENCORE: Inge Rapoport earns doctorate at age 102, after Nazis denied degree

CONNIE WALKER: Hello, I'm Connie Walker and you're listening to the summer edition of The Current. A German physician made history last year when at the age of 102, she became the oldest person in Europe to be granted a medical degree. It came 77 years after the Nazis denied it to her. And her remarkable story holds a special significance for journalist Irris Makler. She explains why in her documentary, The 102 year old woman who crammed for her doctorate.

[subway noise]

IRRIS MAKLER: This is a story about motion and exile, and lives buffeted by the waves of history. Naziism, communism, McCarthyism, all affected one family and one matriarch. Doctor Inge Rapoport, now more than 100 years old is about to receive her medical degree. 77 years after it was denied her by the Nazis. I'm on my way to the awards ceremony to cover it as a journalist, but I also have a personal interest in the story of restitution. Inge Rapoport’s experience parallels that of my own grandmother, a Jewish woman studying medicine in Germany in the 1930s.

[background noise]

IM: I've only just discovered that they were both students at the University of Hamburg, and that's where I'm trying to get to today. But first I need directions.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: You can take the U1, here we are…

IM: Mhmm.

IM: Inge Rapoport and my grandmother Hilda Jacobson were just two years apart at medical school. Neither woman completed her degree, the Nazis wouldn't let them. My grandmother because she was Jewish, Inge Rapoport because her mother was Jewish.

[children yelling]

IM: I walk out of the station past a group of noisy schoolchildren. I wonder, could they ever imagine what went on here before they were born?

[children murmuring]

[footsteps]

IM: When I reach the medical school, I'm struck by the beautiful grounds. The buildings are old and gracious, the trees are old and green, and there are statues and seats and flowering magnolia bushes. I imagine my grandmother walking to class between these same buildings, past these same trees, and I stop to look at shining cobblestones on the path. They turn out to be what are known as stolpersteine, memorials for victims of Nazism. And among them…

INGE RAPOPORT: They are the names of my professors.

IM: Inge Rapoport recalls the fate of some of her Jewish teachers.

INGE RAPOPORT: They had to emigrate. One of them had committed suicide. One of my professors fought in the First World War and had a medal, and he felt [unintelligible] German and he had to leave. Never never gave a lecture again. Immigrated, and then with his wife in Sweden, he committed suicide with her together. Yeah.

[somber music]

IM: It was during this period that a young Inge Rapoport was completing her medical degree. She did her exams and wrote her thesis on diphtheria in children. Her supervisor passed her, but by then it was 1938. The Nazis were tightening their control. There would be no degree for the 26 year old, or for the many other students like her who had Jewish backgrounds.

INGE RAPOPORT: It was terrible. The dean said people were, it seemed conditional. Don’t know a single person, never met them, I was absolutely isolated from the other Jewish suffering people. I mean, my feeling of being Jewish is made of the same fate, and I stand for that.

[crowd noise]

[classical music playing]

IM: Nearly eight decades later the medical school is trying to right the wrong it did to Inge Rapoport, and I've made it in time for the awards ceremony. There are TV cameras and simply hundreds of people, children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, friends, former colleagues, former students, officials, all here to be part of this historic day. There's a buzz before the star student walks in slowly. Afterall, Professor Dr. Inge Rapoport is 102 years old. Wearing sandals and socks, and walking with a stick, Inge’s like a centenarian rock star. In this moment, the event appears so elegant, so simple, it belies a complicated backstory. One you're going to want to hear. So I'll come back to the ceremony, but only after you know just how this all came about. For now, I'll pick up at another time and place, in Berlin, on a visit to Inge's home.

[gate opening]

SOUNDCLIP

IM: Hello.

INGE RAPOPORT: Hello.

IM: How are you?

INGE RAPOPORT: Nice of you to come on time, because at 11 o’clock…

INGE RAPOPORT: It was the idea of the university, it was not for my personal sake. I don't need a doctor’s title anymore, I have better titles after that. So I didn't care, but I did care for all the others who had a similar fate, probably much worse. Because I was lucky, they weren't. For them I do it, including for your grandmother, that's right, I gave you a special talk this morning.

IM: And it is special. I feel a lump in my throat. I'm almost surprised by how touched I am by this, for her to include my grandmother in this way.

[piano music]

IM: Inge tells me about her life. After the medical school refused to award her her degree, she decided to leave Germany, and she was lucky she could. American relatives signed for her, and she obtained a US visa. In 1938 she sailed for New York alone and virtually penniless, but she was safe and began retraining as a doctor.

INGE RAPOPORT: I got a job almost immediately in Brooklyn. How that was possible I don't know. It was just luck.

IM: My grandmother Hilda was also lucky. In 1939, just months before World War II began she escaped to London. A British doctor kindly took in a German refugee. My grandmother worked as her housekeeper. She had a baby, my mother. And later worked as a nurse. She never got the chance to train as a doctor again. My mother says that rankled all her life. But Inge did go on to become a doctor in the US.

INGE RAPOPORT: I was just lucky, very lucky. And of course the conditions in the US were much kinder to immigrants than England was.

IM: That's where Inge met her husband, another physician named Samuel Rapoport.

INGE RAPOPORT: I still remember the moment when I met him. I think he just thought oh that girl is cross-eyed. [laughing] That's what I think I always kidded him, because of that. And I like to hear him say that it wasn't like that. [laughing]

[classical music playing]

IM: Her husband was an active socialist and Inge became one too. But those views spelled trouble in the fifties during the McCarthy era. After 12 years, the Rapaports were chased out of the US. Inge was devastated.

INGE RAPOPORT: Well, that was my new home. I had intended to stay there, and every time I go back to the United States I still have painful feeling in myself.

IM: Inge and her husband ended up back in Germany, Communist East Germany this time. Inge became a professor and the first neonatologist in East Germany. She's lived there ever since. It was there that many years later, she caught the attention of the dean of the Hamburg medical school, by accident really.

DR. UWE KOCH-GROMUS: It was by chance.

IM: Two years ago, Dr. Uwe Kock-Gromus discovered that Inge had been refused her degree at his medical school.

DR. UWE KOCH-GROMUS: We found out about this when Professor Rapaport became a hundred years old. It was a big event in Berlin. So I asked myself, why did no one care for that in 75 years.

IM: He figured he just had to get his hands on Inge’s original thesis. What he couldn't have imagined was just how tricky that was going to get.

INGE RAPOPORT: I can't find the thesis.

DR. UWE KOCH-GROMUS: We couldn't find thesis.

INGE RAPOPORT: It must be here in the house.

IM: Well, it was 1938.

INGE RAPOPORT: Yeah, but it survived all the movings that we had. I know I had it about two years after my husband died. I had had it in my hands.

IM: Oh. [sighs] But there are rules around these sort of things.

DR. UWE KOCH-GROMUS: Certain administrative rules.

IM: So I ask the dean what I think is the logical question. Did you think maybe of just awarding an honorary degree?

DR. UWE KOCH-GROMUS: Yes, but I found it was not adequate. And she also she didn't want that.

IM: She didn't want it?

DR. UWE KOCH-GROMUS: No, and that is fully in line with her straight character.

INGE RAPOPORT: For what should I have an honorary degree? For my suffering under the Nazi regime? No. He didn’t want it and I didn’t want it, so we agreed completely in that.

IM: They also agreed that the best way forward was for Inge to do an oral examination. That at 102 years old, she'd update her thesis on diphtheria and re-present it. Inge wanted no shortcuts.

SUSAN RICHTER: She wanted also that the oral examination is a real examination.

IM: Her daughter Susan Richter, also a doctor, says her mother was adamant about this.

SUSAN RICHTER: She was preparing herself and she really wanted to be good in her examination, you see. [laughing] [unintelligible] Said it doesn't matter, they have to make something. Yes? You don’t have to be so afraid of it, and she was really afraid of it.

IM: It was daunting because though Inge is incredibly sharp, she hasn't escaped all the problems of her age.

INGE RAPOPORT: I'm practically blind. I can't read anything. I can't see you really.

IM: So Inge got creative. I had students of mine and my daughter-in-law, both biochemists. They Googled for me.

SUSAN RICHTER: Yes, and then she asked them the question, they looked up. She asked the other thing, looked up, and so on. Everything went by phone.

INGE RAPOPORT: Cards, questions, answers and I asked again. So, I learned a lot. The learning was fun again.

[Piano music playing]

IM: And so the date for the oral examination was set, May 2015. The dean and two examiners would come to Inge's home in Berlin. But as that day approached, Susan recalls some of her mother's worries.

SUSAN RICHTER: What shall I do? No, I can give them sandwiches because then it’s not an examination. [laughing] You don’t get sandwiches, you see, I’ve read in newspaper from the dean, only water. [laughing]

[Music]

IM: Finally, the day arrived. Susan was on hand.

SUSAN RICHTER: I waited outside. I wasn’t allowed by her.

INGE RAPOPORT: The dean was sitting in this chair.

IM: Where I'm sitting?

INGE RAPOPORT: Ahead of the [unintelligible] commission. I don’t know what the--

IM: [interposing] The committee.

INGE RAPOPORT: I’m not a professor. Was sitting there, and so I told them as much as I remembered after the 70 years. And then I criticized my own work, and asked some deeper questions than I could have done at that time.

IM: And was it frightening? Were you nervous? Was it fun? What was your--

INGE RAPOPORT: [interposing] No, I was terribly nervous. I was nervous for myself. I didn't want to be too bad, and I wanted to not to be a disappointment to the dean. So I had to source some excitement.

IM: Yes. [chuckling]

INGE RAPOPORT: And I did much worse than I could have done.

IM: [laughing] You could have done better. [laughing]

DR. UWE KOCH-GROMUS: They were so impressed. We left the apartment and looked each other [unintelligible]. And I said I couldn't go home now, I would like to invite you. They said no not possible, we already invited you. And we had a very nice meal together and had a very good mood. The whole atmosphere was so friendly.

SOUNDCLIP

Frau Professor Doctor Ingeborg Rapoport [German language] in September…

IM: Accepting her medical degree in Hamburg, Inge Rapaport said she did so in the names of all those who suffered fates worse than hers.

SOUNDCLIP

INGE RAPOPORT: [German language]

[crowd clapping]

IM: Here in her old hometown, they gave her a standing ovation.

[crowd clapping]

[Music]

IM: Meeting Inge Rapaport, with her charisma and her charm, and that accent part German and part 1940s America, makes me feel I've been talking with a German Katharine Hepburn. Or perhaps also with my own grandmother, who died when I was just three. It's a link to my family past for me to walk through the capital of a reunited Germany, and to be working here. Visiting the medical school where my grandmother studied has left me feeling both churned up, and strangely at peace. I realize that Dr. Inge Rapaport is right, and that in some way I can't define, there was restitution in seeing the medical school award this degree to her. She really was doing it for my grandmother, as well as for all those others of course, who didn't survive the war, and so never had children or grandchildren who could come and walk through the Hamburg medical school in the summer and remember them.

[Music]

CW: You've been listening to Irris Makler’s documentary, The 102 year old woman who crammed for her doctorate. It originally aired last September. Our documentary editor is Joan Webber. I'm Connie Walker, thank you for listening to the summer edition of The Current.

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August 10, 2016 full episode transcript

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