Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2021

The Current Transcript for April 16, 2021

Host: Matt Galloway

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

The justice system is already such a difficult place for survivors of domestic violence and gender based violence assault. Talk about insult to injury.

MATT GALLOWAY: It is a baffling case not only to those in the justice system, but also to advocates for sexual assault survivors. A woman whose ex-husband was convicted of sexual assault was convicted herself of breaking a publication ban meant to protect her after he complained in 30 minutes what the choice to tell your story means to survivors and what discretion the legal system might have offered. Also this Friday morning, Ferguson Jenkins is Canadian baseball royalty, a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame, a feared presence on the mound and now a statue in his likeness will be erected outside Wrigley Field. It's a long way from the racism he faced as a young black player in the south.

SOUNDCLIP

You enjoyed playing the game. You felt safe on the field. But when the game is over, what are we going eat, what hotel are we staying at?

MG: In an hour. Fergie Jenkins is here to talk about a baseball career that took him from Chatham to Chicago playing for the Harlem Globetrotters and why he wants the Montreal Expos back. We start, though, in Nova Scotia and a sombre anniversary. Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway. And this is The Current.

[Music: Theme]

Sister of N.S. shooting victim wants answers and action to ensure 'my family's death wasn't in vain'

Guests: Tammy Oliver-McCurdie

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: It's a shame that such a small little community that most people, if you said you were from Portapique Beach, they didn't have a clue where that was. Now, unfortunately, they do.

VOICE 2: Pretty peaceful.

VOICE 3: That's why people moved there and how to say it any different, you know, that's why they were here. And it really sucks that, you know, that they came here for that and. And this happened.

VOICE 4: Still my home, you know, and I still love it and just it saddens me. People are still scared. Liz left a devastating effect on the whole community.

MG: In just one day, Portapique, Nova Scotia, went from a little known pocket of seaside beauty to a place whose very name conjures up fear. This Sunday marks one year since the mass shooting in Portapique, one year since a man pretending to be a police officer killed 22 people, many of them his neighbours. And for the people who were left behind, it has been a year of pain, perseverance and questions. Mimi Woods is from Portapique. She owns the pub in nearby Truro where Jolene Oliver who was killed, worked as a waitress.

SOUNDCLIP

MIMI WOODS: I have memories of being here and Jolene coming in and every time she came in and I was here, she'd say Hello, lovely. I messed up. You know, there was customers that just come in to see. So she made them feel very special, like they were her friends. And I believe they were a lot of people that were killed in Portapique, of course, I knew them like, you know, a lot of them I grew up with. I hope people will learn from this anniversary. I hope people heal from this anniversary. There's a lot of unanswered questions. And I feel, I hope, that from this experience there are lessons learnt. And, you know, maybe they should contact somebody that lived in port to pick their whole life. There was people out there that lived there their whole life and they didn't know until the next morning anything took place.

VOICE: Some people slept right through it.

MIMI WOODS: Yes. Yes. And I I think some of those people could have really helped if they had been approached and just said, you know, the layout. Is there a way out of there? But I'll be thinking about everybody that's gone and how sad it.

They, that Mimi Woods refers to there, is the RCMP. Tom Taggart grew up five minutes down the road from Mimi. Tom's the longtime municipal councillor for the area. And in the years since the shooting. You could say he has become a councillor of a different kind.

SOUNDCLIP

TOM TAGGART: Well, this is where one of the families lived. And I'm not going to name the family, OK, but this is where one of the families lived. They were murdered and the house was burnt. They were set in that house and they would look out that over that water every day. OK, every day there's a whole mental game here. And I can't explain I've been trying to explain this for really the last couple of weeks, as the tension came back on this community, there's the families. As time has gone on, they probably heal to some degree. But I got to tell you, all these little things kind of trigger them, you know what I mean? And I think some of them are finally just now becoming worn out, you know what I mean? And then we have the community that is and I mean the direct community, let's just say the circle around this community for the fact that, for the most of the time over the past six months have really kind of put it behind them, you know what I mean? But now it's all coming back, right? It's everything that happened. And that night, the next day, the weeks not to fall, it is all coming back. And as probably you grew up in, the community, I suppose, comes back a little bit less all the time. But I got to tell you that it's it's not something I have struggled to explain this right from the day one. I struggled to explain how this ever happened here. I struggled to explain how people react. And everybody says to me, well, how's your community? You know, it's pretty darn good. But, you know, we and I you know, we really want to remember what happened here. We probably want to remember the people lost their lives, not only here, but up the road or anywhere else in Nova Scotia. And then we want to be forgotten about, OK, and I mean that big time. We want to be forgotten about. Yeah, I just want to- I got to step a little bit out from where I usually am.I just I want people to picture, especially people who've never been here and, you know, sort of a little bit of a country guy here. So the people in the city. But I just want you to picture a beautiful log home sitting there with two story log home with windows all across all the in the face of it, somebody came here to this place and they saw that house and they said, this is it for me. This is where I want to spend the rest of my life because of the natural beauty and the peacefulness of the. Man. I got to tell you, like, you know this even a year later when I really get into thinking about this, it shakes you to your core. You know, there's no you just can't not be affected by it. But so this would be a wonderful place to have a little healing power for a lot of people, but it would destroy the people between here and the end of the road, because we will do and I will do anything to keep Portapique from becoming a tourist attraction. I absolutely will. Having said that, I can't wait for the right proposal to come together where so where people can go and sort of heal and be peaceful. And and that goes a lot deeper than just the families and the people in this community, the people in the greater community.

VOICE: But has anyone talked about changing the name?

TOM TAGGART: No, no, I. I wouldn't want to go down that road. I'll tell you that right now. I mean, people in point of fact, they're proud of their community and there's no change in that. No, sir. I wouldn't want to see that whatsoever. And this community wants to remember, never forget, memorialise the events of that night and then they want to forget about it for another three hundred and sixty days. But at the end of day, you know, we've get it behind us and we move on to the enquiry. So I want the people that are running that enquiry to understand what they hold in their hands. You know, I want them to understand that that is the key to a lot of people healing. They have got to go to the end of the earth to make sure that they're credible, that they don't have, that there's no way that anybody can ever say that there's any cover up, you know what I mean? They have to have credibility. The people of the community and the families have got that. At the end of the day, they've got to be able to say, well, finally, we know what really happened. It's the sound of peacefulness. In two weeks, smell Seagull's, the smells are going to come up the river for three or four days. This event has has changed everybody's life to some degree. Certainly has changed mine. There's no denying that. Don't sweat the small stuff ever again. And you know what I mean. People get upset about one thing or another and they dwell on one thing or another. Good God, don't sweat the small stuff. And I'm able to stand here and reflect on this. OK, so, you know, if there's one thing that I would like to. People take from this whole tragedy and the loss of lives down here is that, man, we've got to look after our friends and our family in our community.

MG: That's Tom Tagert and sort of pick the immensity of this tragedy stretches across this country and beyond, three of the people killed in Portapique, where Jolene Oliver, who we heard about earlier, her husband, Aaron Tuck, and their teenage daughter, Emily, Tammy Oliver McCurdie was Jolene's older sister, and she joins me now from Red Deer, Alberta. Tammy, good morning.

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: Good morning.

MG: How are you doing?

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: I'm doing OK. It was hard listening to all of that.

MG: Yeah. I mean, in some ways it's hard to believe that it's been a year. And in other ways, I'm sure it feels like time has just ground along. How would you describe the last year for you?

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: Well, for me and my family in Alberta, it's it's excruciating at times. You know, we can't travel because of covid. We can't partake in some of the healing events in the Nova Scotia area because of covid. And so we deal ourselves all the way out here every time a article comes up or something new. I mean, Whitehill court document is sent out to the families. You know, we have scars and every time that comes out, it opens up those scars. Right. With no answers and more questions than when we started the day that it happened.

MG: You're hoping to address some of that on this anniversary. Tell me what what you're planning to do to mark the anniversary of Aaron and Jolene and Emily's deaths?

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: Well, we've got a couple of things happening out in Alberta here. Two things because I have an older sister. I'm actually the middle child. Julene was the baby of the family. My older sister, she's got a walk in Nova Scotia, remembers walk and race that she is doing part of part, which is just outside of Edmonton. A lot of the families received to see immediate family members and we received three trees, which one of the trees is in in Cardiff Park. So that's why we're doing it in Cardiff Park. And people can register for that on this raceroster.com. And just click on Cardiff Park as well as we have a rally this coming Saturday from one to three in Calgary. Now, Calgary is important because Julene was born and raised in Calgary and Emily was born and raised in Calgary. They only lived out in Nova Scotia for six years prior to the tragic death. And so we're holding a rally for truth. So we'll be having, saying words and having a bit of memorial for them. So those hearts that people can ride on for messages for loved ones lost because it might not just be from my family, there might be people there, you know, somebody one of the other family members who had passed away during that event. And then we have questions to give people a voice, whether there are questions around this event. Like Nothing will ever bring my family back, nothing. But if we can save life in the future by getting better with response times in rural areas, how we advise the public of issues of concern as soon as they happen, you know, If they would have received a text or information or some kind of alert, I don't know if Aaron would have opened that door so readily. So we shouldn't be selling any uniforms or cars or anything that's related to what is our most prised possession, is our public safety.

MG: And are those are those are the questions that you have. I mean, one is around those alerts. And I remember a year ago talking to to people in the community who were furious that that there wasn't an Amber Alert, there wasn't an emergency alert, that there was, you know, messages put out on Twitter and what have you.

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: My questions more like around response times, because apparently my family was last in that event. So they had police officers in the community. They didn't drive around to check the safety of the people in the community. They didn't know where the guy was. You know, at that point, they didn't know who and how many people. So you would think that to save lives. They would need to do a safety check. There's only less than 50 homes in that area. You know, my family wasn't checked for 20 hours and my brother in law lied at the door and the door was open. So they can't say that they drove past the house to do it. They would have known they were dead way before. I live in a rural area in Alberta. I think about, 'What if 13 people were killed in my community or down my road, and they were missing the person, the threat? Would they come to my house to check to see if they're maybe in my house? Would they come to my house to check to make sure I'm OK? Where are the priorities when it comes to saving lives?

MG: Tom Taggert talked about how I mean, the folks who who are leading and part of this enquiry need to understand, in his words, what they hold in their hands and what they hold in their hands as part of the keys to healing. I mean, if you get those answers is how is that going to help you on that road to healing?

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: It helped me to know that my family's death wasn't in vain. If we can get better at protecting people and advising them of situations, as well as our response, God hopes that this never happens again. But how many people is it going to take to get better at public safety, not just in Nova Scotia, across Canada? I'm sorry these things can happen in Alberta. These things can happen in any province. So when they make changes to better public safety protocols, they need to make those changes across Canada because every Canadian matters.

MG: Can I ask you about your sister? Mimi Woods described how in the tavern customers would come in and she'd say, hello, lovely. And they love to come in and see her. I mean, tell me a little bit about her and what made her so likeable.

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: Oh, my goodness. Well, she was always positive. One of the most positive people. You know, she endured many challenges in life, but she always met them with a positive attitude or she's just on a journey. In the last year, I received lots of messages of people that I didn't know but knew my sister and people who had worked with Jolene. A lot of them commented how Jolene always sang and danced at work. And so she was always singing and dancing. And that is so true because I have a story about a disco ball that sits now in my window. But Jolene actually bought this disco ball and it's just a little one years ago and she put it in her window because every time the sun was shining on it, it would shine all those little shiny flakes on your walls. It would make her happy. And my sister and her family were big, massive car enthusiasts. They had done up this old Pinto and into somewhat of a racer. And Erin had torn it down and put it back together many times. And we did. And that Pinto was supposed to go to Emily when she was 18. So now it's actually had a car. So that happens every summer in August. And there were her customers that drove hours to come to the car show. You know, like that that says something about a person. And she had customers like that in Calgary when she worked because she was a [unintelligible] waitress. She could've done anything in life, but she just loved people and she took the time for people always, and she listened. She had many customers even in Calgary. And I think that's why it's important for us to do something here in Alberta is there were lots of people of lives that they touched when they were here for three quarters of their life, that we really haven't done anything. And we've just been kind of managing our emotions for the last year or so. I think this is most important, not just for. In Alberta here, both the event in Calgary on Saturday and the one in Edmonton on Sunday, I think it's most important also for those who knew them to have a way to process. Yes. From across the country.

MG: You mentioned Emily as well and I mean, so many people saw the video of your niece, Emily, playing the violin. I want to play a little bit of it.

SOUNDCLIP

Your contribution to the covid kitchen party.

[Sound: Violin].

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: You know, that that's going to make me cry profusely and so I've gotten to a point in my healing with a lot of meditation and where I can smile at that song now and think it's amazing that she can share that with the world. She was so afraid to even play it. You know, she would talk to my mom on the phone and say, oh, grandma, I don't know if I can play that and put that on the kitchen party. And so she picked that song and she played it over and over again and put it on the covid kitchen or the kitchen party. She did something amazing and she was beautiful.

MG: You went through this awful shared experience with these other families. And I wonder whether you have gotten to know other people who lost family members in this tragedy.

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: Oh, my goodness. Yeah, we have one of the best things we have is we have a like Facebook site that is closed to the public and we connect and we talk and, you know, and we share moments and we share love of tough days, you know, hey, so and so's birthday's coming up. And so we send a lot of love to each other throughout the year. And I think those people, you know, they're embedded in their life. They're far away. And they haven't met many of those people in person. But other than Zoom calls and and on Facebook, it has been a good healing process, a tough process. But I'm glad that we're all trying to stay strong together through this very difficult situation that is so drawn out and so Mediasized. And we're not even halfway through the public enquiry. We're just getting started. So it is going to be a long couple of years for us,

MG: you know, what do you think it'll be like when this pandemic is done and you can get back on an aeroplane? What do you think it'll be like to get to Puerto?

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: I don't know, my dad hasn't been able to travel yet because he's got MS, so I'm really hoping my dad can make it out to Nova Scotia. He really wants to go see that car show this summer. We really wanted to come out this weekend, but that couldn't happen. So that's why we decided to do events here in Alberta. And I'm hoping that we can get him out to that car show.

MG: It's been a tough year for you, and I'm really sorry for what you and what your family have gone through. But it's really important to hear from you and hear you talk about what you're looking for still in those answers and what those answers might mean in terms of some healing. Tammy, thanks so much.

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: Yes, thanks for having me.

MG: Take care of yourself.

TAMMY OLIVER MCCURDIE: Appreciate it, Matt. Thank you.

MG: Tammy Oliver McKirdy Sister Joline, her brother in law, Aaron Tuque, and their daughter Emily Tucker, were killed a year ago in Portapique on Sunday evening. CBC is hosting a one hour memorial called Stronger Together. That's at six p.m. Atlantic Time. And you can watch it on CBC News Network and CBC Gem. Here's a bit more from Emily Tuck on the fill. CBC News is next, and then a publication ban is supposed to protect people in this country. What happens when it ends up punishing the victim of a crime instead? That story in six minutes. I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current.

Case of sex assault victim fined for breaking publication ban leaves legal community divided

Guests: Colin Westman, Emilie Taman, Bekah D’Aoust

MG: Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway and you're listening to The Current.

[Music: Theme]

MG: Still to come, a statue of a Canadian will soon stand outside of one of America's most iconic ballparks. A conversation with the great Fergie Jenkins in 30 minutes. But first, a publication ban that ended up hurting the one person it was meant to protect.

[Music: Theme]

MG: Publication bans in sexual assault cases are intended to protect the survivors, keep their names out of the media, so if they choose, they can remain anonymous as they try to heal. But a recent case in Ontario has shown it is not always that simple. A woman's ex-husband was convicted of sexually assaulting her. And after the judge's ruling, that woman shared a court transcript with friends and family over email. She did not redact her own name from those documents. Technically, that means that she broke a publication ban meant to protect her. She was fined over two thousand dollars for doing that and on Wednesday filed an appeal to overturn her conviction. Colin Westman is a retired Ontario court judge and Kitchener Waterloo, where this case took place. And Emilie Taman is a lawyer and co-host of the podcast The Docket. She is in Ottawa and I spoke with them at the beginning of this week just before the appeal was filed. Here's our conversation. Colin Westman, I'll start with you. When you first heard about this case in the jurisdiction that you used to work in, what went through your mind?

COLIN WESTMAN: I was shocked and I was disappointed because from my perspective, based on the facts that I had read in the newspaper, I just thought it was not just it didn't comport with the intent of the legislation. This was not in the interests of justice, from my perspective, to prosecute something.

MG: I want to ask you more about that from your perspective in just a moment. But, Emilie, for you, when you first heard that this woman had been convicted, what was through your mind?

EMILIE TAMAN: Well, I was equally shocked. And I think there were two features in particular that really concerned me. The first was the fact that this conviction was the result of a guilty plea and a joint position on sentence, meaning that the defence counsel and the crown had agreed in advance that the accused would plead guilty. So that was concerning to me because it doesn't seem like there was a lot of advocacy going on to ensure that the public interest prevailed in this case. And secondly, discovering that the complainant in other words, the person who went to the police with an allegation that the publication ban had been breached was in fact the offender who had sexually assaulted this woman in the first place. So seeing the ways in which her ex, who had now been convicted of a sexual assault, is now jeopardising the justice system to further harass and victimise her in a way that I think is just really concerning, that justice system participants would allow themselves to be implicated in this kind of abuse.

MG: To some people, it might seem confusing. This was a publication ban not against, as you say, her ex. This was on her own name.

EMILIE TAMAN: That's right. Well, because they had been married in order to protect her identity, his identity was also obscured and initials used in place of his name. But they obscuring of his name was for the sole purpose of protecting her identity. It was almost a residual benefit to him. So for him to sort of feel aggrieved that she had somehow breached his confidentiality by sharing, that is just wrong. And the system should not have allowed that view to prevail by prosecuting her.

MG: He used to be a prosecutor. So, I mean, help me understand what the public interest might be in the calculations that would go into deciding whether to take up this case or not.

EMILIE TAMAN: So when a crown is presented with a set of charges, there are two main considerations. Is there a reasonable prospect of conviction and is the prosecution in the public interest? So in this case, I think there was a prospect of conviction. Where is the public interest? I would say there's a very small public interest in the sense that, yes, we want the public to respect court orders and publication bans. And so I wouldn't say there's zero public interest. But when weighing all of the factors that go to the public interest, I just don't see what the public interest is in prosecuting her for breaching a publication ban in the most minor way by not sharing it widely, not sharing it publicly, and only sharing it with people who already knew her identity as the complainant. I just don't see how any reasonable balancing exercise leads the crown to determine that the matter should proceed.

MG: Colin Westman, as somebody who has sat on the bench, do you see any public interest in pursuing something like this?

COLIN WESTMAN: There's the very, very minor interest here. But that would justify, in my view, the matter of proceeding with the resulting in a conviction and a fine.

MG: No where is the discretion that a judge might have in this case?

COLIN WESTMAN: Well, if I had been handling the case, I would have raised the issue is do you really think this is of significance and should proceed with a finding of guilt? But if both counsel were firm in their position and the Crown would not withdraw the charge, then I think I would have resorted to simply giving you an absolute discharge.

MG: And that kind of action is within the purview of a judge. I mean,

COLIN WESTMAN: yeah, I mean, you don't have to accept a guilty plea. I can reject the joint submission. You do it sparingly. You try to respect what the council are doing because they know that you don't necessarily hear about. But based on the record, I think my approach would have been just simply to have granted a conditional discharge.

MG: Emily, this decision, Emily, this woman was was fined two thousand dollars plus a 600 dollar surcharge for victim services. You talked about being victimised. What sort of message does that send?

EMILIE TAMAN: Well, I mean, it's just awful. I mean, the justice system is already such a difficult place for survivors of domestic violence, of gender based violence, of assault. Talk about insult to injury like this woman is being ordered to pay six hundred dollars into a fund to support victims. And on that theory, in this case, who's the victim? She is still the victim. And in fact, if anything, I think the overwhelming public scrutiny that this conviction has given rise to increases the risk of her identity becoming more widely known. This is a woman that doesn't live in a major metropolitan city. There was very little at least widespread reporting on the conviction itself. But now, because of this, it's actually possible that people in her community are going to hear about this. And so the purpose of the legislation is being further undermined by the very well deserved public scrutiny that this conviction has given rise to.

MG: Ari Goldkind is a criminal defence lawyer in Toronto. I'd like you both to take a listen to what he has to say on this.

SOUNDCLIP

While this young lady may be a bad example in a bad case, the courts are constantly worried that publication bans aren't taken seriously. The criminal justice system is not just interested in this young lady. It's interested in every young lady who doesn't want to disseminate transcripts or names to friends and family. Were doing so would seriously risk their safety, the safety of those they love. So the criminal justice system in such a case has a duty, not just this some, you know, flight of fancy, but a duty to say these publication bans must be taken extremely seriously. And we need to make an example out of this one case to deter anybody else from doing this.

MG: Emilie, what do you make of that?

EMILIE TAMAN: I mean, I'm just so disappointed to hear that kind of argument being put forward from a defence counsel in particular, where noumber one, it is well understood that general deterrence is not effective and so making an example like what is the public interest in making example of this woman? General deterrence is a principle. It is only one of many principles that a judge has to consider when sentencing an offender. And the judge is required to consider not only the circumstances of the offence, which is what Mr. Goldkind was speaking to, but also the circumstances of the offender. And in this case, we know the circumstances of the offender is of the person for whom the publication aan was intended to protect and is the victim of a sexual assault. And the complainant in the publication ban breach is her assaulter. So considering all of those principles, not the only one that Mr. Gould kind of singled out in that clip, I think, again, leads to the conclusion that this is not a just or appropriate outcome in this case.

MG: Does the fact that she has two children complicate this case in any way?

EMILIE TAMAN: You know, I've seen people suggest that protecting her name also protects the names of her children. There's two problems with that. The first, again, is that the people with whom the decision was shared already knew the identity of her children because they're close supporters and family friends. Secondly, the provision that authorises the judge to make the publication ban in the first place only authorises it for the purposes of protecting the identity of a victim or of the complaint of the complainant or of a witness. And so, as far as I know, the children were not witnesses. So while there's arguably an interest in protecting their identities, it's not one that's legally authorised as a basis for the publication ban. And so I don't see how it can be used as a basis for a prosecution when the publication ban is breached.

MG: What do you make of the argument that if this woman hadn't been prosecuted and find that a message would have been sent by the courts about how seriously those courts take publication bans?

COLIN WESTMAN: Well, I agree with Emilie in the sense that general deterrence, I think, is not nearly as effective as we like to think or imply. And my focus would be on the individual case, as it should be. And in this particular fact situation, it just seems that there's an injustice here. When I looked at the case, that was my reaction to it as it was with every member of my family.

MG: There is a lot about this case that we don't know. I want to play one more thing from the lawyer, Ari Goldkind.

SOUNDCLIP

While everybody.

Up on the criminal justice system or the prosecutor or the attorney general for prosecuting the case, nobody realises and remembers the following. This young lady had a defence lawyer. She could easily have told the crown attorney to go stick it, could easily have set a trial, could easily have said not guilty and brought all sorts of challenges. Lo and behold, this lady represented by her lawyer, agrees to pay a $2000 fine. We don't know whether or not this went before a judge for approval with a judicial pre-trial. So I think everybody is acting with limited information. And I don't like limited information being a thing that leads to sensational headlines.

MG: Emilie, given the fact that we don't have all the information, could there be more to explain why the case unfolded in the way that it did?

EMILIE TAMAN: I mean, that's definitely possible. I can't speak for myself at every stage that I've uncovered more information. It has only supported the view that this is an injustice. If there were additional surprising facts and they'd have to be quite surprising to change my view on the outcome in this case, then I think it was incumbent on all of the participants to ensure that there's at least something on the record that makes reference to or at least implies that there was more to this. And the more I hear about it, the more convinced I am that this was a miscarriage of justice.

MG: Colin, you raised this earlier on. But just briefly, I mean, our publication bans still serving their intended purpose to protect people.

COLIN WESTMAN: Oh, there's an important purpose there, because sometimes in order to protect vulnerable people, for example, with youth, we don't publish their names or to protect them. We consider them vulnerable. So they're very, very important. But the idea that this lawyer said she was represented by counsel, so everything is is obviously all right. Unfortunately, we all [unintelligible] sometimes can make mistakes. And maybe there were exceptional facts that we don't know about, as he suggested. But if the facts are as we suspect they were or hear that they were through the press reporting, then I think the defence counsel just simply failed on that particular day. I know I've failed in court. We don't always handle the situation in the best way possible. We, like everyone else, can have a bad day and miss something.

MG: Emilie, just finally, you said that this was in some ways insult to injury. What do you see as the impact that this case could have on women coming forward to report sexual assault?

EMILIE TAMAN: Well, this is just the thing. I mean, there are already so many barriers to reporting and public confidence to the extent that there is any in the court's ability to adequately manage sexual assault cases is so fragile as it is that I think every time you have a case like this, it sends a message to people who may wish to come forward with allegations of sexual assault that this is going to be a process that is going to wear you down until you have no dignity left at all. And I think, unfortunately, you know, I'm glad that this case has received public scrutiny. I'm glad that we're talking about it. But every time a prospective complainant hears about a case like this, I think it puts another obstacle amongst many pre-existing obstacles. And I think, one off measures, like judicial training or tweaking the publication ban provisions are not the solution. I mean, I have long advocated for a return to the Federal Law Reform Commission so that we can have really comprehensive, thoughtful, evidence based solutions put forward so that we can reckon with this once and for all. And unfortunately, I think we're still a long ways away from that.

COLIN WESTMAN: I think there's a value of a free press because it came to public attention.

MG: It's great to speak with you both. Thank you very much.

COLIN WESTMAN: Thank you, Matt.

EMILIE TAMAN: Thank you. Bye bye.

MG: Colin Westman is a retired Ontario court judge, and Emilie Taman is a lawyer and co-host of the podcast The Docket. We asked for a statement from the Crown regarding their reasoning for pursuing this case against the woman. They sent us a statement that reads, quote: "As this matter is in the appeal period, it would not be appropriate to comment further". Robin Parker is one of the new lawyers representing this woman who is now appealing her conviction.

SOUNDCLIP

Our client pleaded guilty because she was exhausted. She wanted to close a chapter that had been filled with difficulty and trauma and move on with her life, put this behind her. Our client is appealing the decision now because she's come to realise, first of all, that this would follow her for the rest of her life with having a criminal record, but also because she didn't transmit it, she didn't broadly disseminate the decision she sent it to her support network and one of the problems is that, you know, interpreting that so broadly as to be the breach of a publication that really drives a wedge between a complainant and her support network. I think one of the reasons that this case has really struck a chord and is now sort of sparking a national conversation is that it really underscores the difficulty that the criminal justice system has in dealing with sex assault complainants. On the one hand, my client didn't want her identity published. She just wanted to share that with her support network. But other sex assault complainants do want to be able to talk about what happened. And so I think we need to have a larger conversation about how we deal with sex assault complainants and victims in the criminal justice system.

MG: There have been a growing number of people who've decided to forgo these bans and make their identities public. Bekah D'Aoust is a sexual assault survivor who had her publication ban lifted. And Becca joins me now. Bekah, good morning.

BEKAH D'AOUST: Good morning. How are you?

MG: I'm OK. I know that this is sensitive. And so say what you are comfortable in saying. Remind us what happened in your case, if you don't mind.

BEKAH D'AOUST: Yeah, absolutely. And actually, it's really hard to believe that I'm now at the 10 year mark and the legal proceedings just came to a conclusion last year, which is- it's insane to believe. But, 10 years ago I decided to go to a party with my boyfriend at the time, and we ended up spending the night there because we were way too intoxicated to drive home and set my alarm. And I woke up minutes before my alarm being sexually assaulted by Brian Hartman. And since then, it's been- it's been quite a journey.

MG: I'm sorry for what you went through. The initial decision was appealed in this. Can you tell me about that?

BEKAH D'AOUST: He was found guilty? I believe it was in 2012 and he appealed it. You know what? I've lost track of how many times you appeal that. But eventually he was granted a new trial in 2015. And that's actually when I first reached out to the media. And I think the idea kind of triggered in my brain that, you know, I needed to tell my side of the story, which eventually did lead to me requesting to have the publication ban lifted on my name.

MG: Tell me more about that. Why did you want that ban lifted on your name?

BEKAH D'AOUST: Even at the time when I did put the application through to the court, I, I don't think I really understood the multitude of the effect it would have on my life. And my initial thought was, what if I have to lose? You know, I've already lost so much in my life and slowly picking up the pieces as the years have gone by and, you know, redefined myself in a sense. But I didn't really understand why I wanted to do it. But ultimately, I thought initially was OK, if people could see my face and they could put a name to my story, maybe it would help other victims and survivors relate to me and my story a little bit better. And in turn play a huge a bigger role in my advocacy work.

MG: What was that process like in making your name public?

BEKAH D'AOUST: It wasn't too hard in my case, the crown attorney just put it to the court and the hardest part about it was that the first time I had made the request, the defence lawyer didn't show up to court. So they had to delay the process a couple more months until they could get another court date. So that was probably the hardest part about it, honestly, and I didn't even realise when I had made the request, the defence lawyer did have the chance to deny it. So I want to say I was very, very lucky in that sense, but it wasn't a difficult process at all.

MG: Did you wrestle with that decision at all? I mean, in terms of sharing your identity, I mean, you talked about the advocacy work and in the long run, it has helped you. But as you're going through this and again, you have to go back and process what happened to you, was that something that you had to wrestle with?

BEKAH D'AOUST: Oh, not so much, because being a victim of this crime in a survivor, you know, it's part of who I am. It's part of my story. And if someone can't accept that, then, you know, it's I don't really want them in my life anyway. So that's what it kind of comes down to. And adding to that, you know, initially I said I wasn't really sure what removing the publication family name would really affect me and others. But ultimately and I really thought a lot of thought into it since hearing the story, in a sense, I was able to reclaim my identity.

MG: What do you mean?

BEKAH D'AOUST: So when you're you're sexually assaulted, you lose a part of you, you know, that that innocence, that that, you know, dignity to you know, that the part of you that you never thought you lose or you were capable of losing. And, you know, you spend a lot of time in therapy and counselling and talking to people and taking advantage of your resources and trying to build your life back up. But, you know, I lost my voice. I felt silent for a long time. And, you know, in my case, I was lucky that I had such a grabbing headline that people wanted to to talk to me and reporters wanted to hear what I had to say. And so I did have the chance to speak out. But it wasn't until I could turn around and show my face and say I'm back at do and I'm a survivor. It wasn't until that moment that I really got that piece back, that piece of me that was taken away. And, you know, I was no longer silent anymore.

MG: And so when you heard what happened to this woman, in this case in Kitchener, given what you've just said, what went through your mind?

BEKAH D'AOUST: It broke my heart in so many ways, it's- I try not to get emotional in interviews, but the bravery that it took for her to put that in front of the court and then for her in the end to be charged criminally. It's just- it's hard to even believe that this is the reality that we're living in right now. It's, it's heartbreaking. And it makes me sick to my stomach.

MG: What do you say to those, when we heard a lawyer, then we played a little clip of in that conversation earlier who say that the law is the law and that you have to, I mean, the law has to be done and it has to you know, justice has to be done and it has to be seen to be done that no one should be able to break that law. What do you say to those people

BEKAH D'AOUST: he made at one point? Well, if you know, she could go to the appeal it and she could go to trial. First of all, does he have any idea? Of course he does. How much that would cost her? Second of all, it is revictimising her, putting her through a lengthy appeal process after just going through the process, she just went through? Why? You know, I would probably have done the same thing as her as pled guilty. It's an incredibly difficult position for her to be in. And I agree the law is the law. However, I do not believe that it should be an application you have to put forward to the court. You should be able to tell the crown attorney that's representing you. I would like my name to be released. It should be more of a declaration because it's her life. It's her story. It's her name. It is her choice. Now, I agree with the judge that spoke earlier regarding youth, absolutely, leave the publication ban there. But as an adult, I should not have to ask permission to give my name and tell my story.

MG: To you it is about, and you said it's her choice, this is an issue of choice.

BEKAH D'AOUST: It is.

MG: Bekah, I'm glad to have had the chance to talk to you. It's I know it's not easy, but it's really important. So thank you

BEKAH D'AOUST: know, I appreciate you guys reaching out. Thank you.

MG: Bekah D'Aoust is a sexual assault survivor who made the decision to have the publication ban lifted in her case. Well, coming up after your regional update.

SOUNDCLIP

I had a chance to say some of the best opponents in baseball in the 60s and 70s and early 80s and not any of this opportunity was easy.

MG: Well, I wouldn't imagine that staring down the mound that the likes of Mickey Mantle would be easy. A trip down memory lane with Fergie Jenkins in 90 seconds. I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to The Current.

Canadian baseball legend Fergie Jenkins reflects on his career

Guest: Fergie Jenkins

MG: Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, you're listening to The Current. If you know baseball, you know Fergie Jenkins, he was the first Canadian inducted into baseball's Hall of Fame, a Cy Young winner for best pitcher in the National League in 1971 and a 20 game winning pitcher for seven seasons, including six consecutive seasons for the Chicago Cubs. Now, at 78 years old, Fergie Jenkins has another honour to add to that list. The Chicago Cubs have announced plans to erect a statue of him outside the iconic Wrigley Field, joining four other players, Ferguson Jenkins. Good morning.

FERGIE JERKINS: Morning. How are you doing?

MG: I'm well. Congratulations on this. I thank you. How did they tell you we're going to erect a

FERGIE JERKINS: statue of you? Well, I'll do resume interview with the Cubs and Mr. Ricketts, the owner of the team, broke in and he said, Ferguson, we're going to erect the statue. Can I give your permission to do it? I said, go right ahead.

MG: Well, I mean, aside from giving him permission, what was your reaction?

FERGIE JERKINS: Well, I was surprised that he would come on and let me know in this type of format. But it once it hit me, I was happy with the fact that they're going to do it.

MG: What does it mean to you?

FERGIE JERKINS: Well, you've got three other team-mates, you know, Billy Williams, Rance Allen, Ernie Banks and Ernie Banks. That room we're roommates the last four years, you play from 67 to 69. So, you know, it's just something that's like the icing on the cake. Now, because of the fact that I retired my number ten years ago and now the statue they're going to erected in 2022 all day. And I'm looking forward to that.

MG: I want to take you down memory lane, marking a couple of big moments in your baseball career. Take a listen to this. Here's the.

FERGIE JERKINS: [sc]

[Field noise]

Gary Templeton. A 3000 strikeout of his career. Gary Templeton goes down swinging. And Ferguson, Jackson being congratulated, throws the baseball into the dugout, all of his team-mates coming out to shake his hand. A historic moment for Chicago Cubs baseball. Outstanding ovation.

MG: Fergie Jenkins, tell me about that moment.

FERGIE JERKINS: When I was in San Diego in 82, in the year, I come back to the Cubs, when the situation happened, it wasn't alarming because I was looking forward to it. I needed like three or four strikeouts to get to 3000 a game before I had a lot of it. I lost her one to beat the Dodgers. And now we're in San Diego. And it was really surprising that the line-up that they had were some pretty good ballplayers and all very surprised. Some of the power hitters, they tried to, but they didn't want to strike out. And Templeton was a leadoff hitter, came up, I think, in the fourth or fifth inning. He didn't try too much. He swung through a couple of pitches and then basically was laid on a on a fastball. But I was really surprised that the situation happened. Like anything in baseball, you're looking forward to it happening and then, boom, there it is. You're surprised it's happening. Everybody, cheers for you. Dugout is empty. Players come out and shake my hand. Pat me on the back. You know, the end result is that we've got to get down to business again and it's all over.

MG: I want to play something else. This features one of your team-mates the final pitch in an historic game.

SOUNDCLIP

[Field noise]

And one-one the score. Aa very good shot, that ball came forward and a billy William home run. Billy William as his tremendous home run, the Rights Centre, broke the one-one deadlock and gave the Cubs a two-one victory on opening day in ten inning.

MG: What was so special about that game?

FERGIE JERKINS: Well, I was my team-mate, Billy Williams hit the home run against an opponent that was kind of the individual I enjoyed pitching against Bob Gibson and the St. Louis Cardinals. And opening day in 1971 was historical because the fact that we ended up really, really playing well on year and I end up winning the Cy Young won twenty four games out here. But as I said, Bob Gibson and I hooked up probably over a dozen times and it was a tough opponent against me and the course.

MG: That was a season when you went on to keep your string of 20 win seasons, which is remarkable when you think about it. I mean, how do you understand that consistency and that ability to pitch at that level over so many seasons?

FERGIE JERKINS: Well, to be consistent, you have to work hard at it and I try to stay in as good a shape as possible. Spring training had just elapsed and this the opening day of our first game against one of our nemesis, the St. Louis Cardinals, in our division. So I was looking forward to him. And Leo had already told me probably nine or 10 games prior to spring training was on, that I was going to be the opening day pitcher in Chicago. So let's get prepared. This is what it was all about. And you know who you're going to face? The Cardinals. And I know who my opponent was going to be. It's going to be Bob Gates. And so I was preparing in that situation.

MG: How do you look back on on those big moments in your career? I mean, what is it like to to go into the time machine and think about and hear those moments?

FERGIE JERKINS: I've kind of related some of the things to my kids that I had a chance to face, some of the best opponents in baseball in the 60s and 70s and part of the 80s. And not any of this opportunity was easy. You had to work at it. There was, you know, homework you had to do, learning some of the new hitters that were coming in the league. And the Cardinals had had an older veteran ball club with Brock, Flood, McCarver, Shannon, so many guys that were established players. And they knew me. I knew them. So the battle was for me to try to win a ballgame. And my line-up was similar. We had Ron Santo, Ernie Banks, Bobby Williams, Kessinger, Becker. Guys were for veterans, too, so it was a veteran ball club against another veteran ball club. So to win a ballgame opening day, you had to have your act together. And when I look back at it, I enjoyed every part of the challenge because that's what baseball is all about. It's a challenge to start to start month to month, year to year.

MG: It's pretty lonely out there on the mound. I mean, you're part of a team, but it's on you in many ways. How did you deal with that?

FERGIE JERKINS: prior to the game? You know, Randy, Holly and I ever have a I think a study that we go over the hitters and hoping that the things that we go over the end result is our game plan is going to work. And believe me, a lot of times the game plans were successful because Randy and I studied and I didn't shake Randy off a whole lot. And when I did, I came right back the same pitch.

MG: What was it like to pitch at Yankee Stadium?

FERGIE JERKINS: Oh, outstanding. I couldn't wait. When I got traded to the Texas Rangers in seventy four, they were revamping the old Yankee Stadium. So we had to play in Shea Stadium. So in 75, my first game, I had a pitch against Catfish Hunter. I went to the ballpark. Game starts at 7:05. I was at the ballpark at four o'clock, so I just walked around the stands and walked on the field just to get familiarised with Yankee Stadium because I had never pitched him before.

MG: He pitched against Mickey Mantle.

FERGIE JERKINS: Yes, he did an all star competition.

MG: What was that like?

FERGIE JERKINS: My first All-Star game was in Anaheim and he was a pitch hitter and in like the third inning when I really want to show and I think it was pretty- I'm pretty sure Joe Torrey was the catcher and timeout called Walter Austin came out of the dugout. Now I'm the pitcher on the mound. And and so Torrey says, you know who's coming up to him, don't you? Oh, yes, I know Mickey Mantle. And he says, Oh, you want to start them off? I said, let's go right after Fastball. And that's how it all started. I had a lot of adrenaline that day. Two years old, my first All-Star game. So believe me, I was up for the challenge.

MG: How do you think the game has changed since then? I mean, the names of players that you're reciting, and your own name, I mean, these are people that we grew up listening to that we grew up thinking about. How is the game changed since then?

FERGIE JERKINS: A lot more teams, facilities, new ballparks, equipment. I just think that it's a good thing for the game of baseball. Well, when I played, there might be a player that might get a one or two year contract. Now, these contracts are 10, 12, 13 year contracts. They're locked in for the rest of their playing career. But to look back so many things, the number of players names have changed. It's no more Mickey Mantle [unintelligible], Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Kofax, Drysdale, Seiver, myself, Carlton. A lot of these players are young and they're all considered superstars. I played against two superstars in my career. One was Willie Mays and the second was Roberto Clemente, the National League. Those are the two ultimate players when I was playing. And now there's dozens of superstars and I'm not sure if they're really considered a superstar. They're good players. They are equipped, they're good athletes, and they really play well. A player that I would have loved to have faced Albert Pujols with the Cardinals and now he's with the Angels. He's at the end of his career homerun hitter, got 600 home runs. You know, homerun hitters are always a challenge to get out. And if you make a mistake and result, they win the battle. It's fun to and believe me, the battles are fun.

MG: Let me ask you about playing in the 60s when you were playing for Chicago and the Phillies in the 1960s. I mean, racism was still a huge part of the game. And there were times when you were on the road and you weren't even able to stay in the same hotel as some of your other team-mates. What do you remember about that time?

FERGIE JERKINS: Well, you know, that's something that changed. I came up in in 65 and the Bill of Rights was passing from the minor leagues. In the big leagues it wasn't that bad. The only thing that was a big problem is maybe eating at certain restaurants in certain cities, maybe Cincinnati, maybe Atlanta, that type of thing. But when we got over that. Billy and I and Ernie Allen and George Altman, we hung around together a lot. We used to eat together. Guys would get used to certain cities, certain restaurants would go to. So we didn't change the pattern a lot of times. Maybe in the mornings we'd have room service. But in the afternoons you did around two, two thirty prior to the game. So it was always a restaurant who wanted you to fraternise and go to so much you felt comfortable. I never felt pressured in in the major leagues, the minor leagues was a little different. I came up in in the Southern League and then with Knoxville and Macon, Georgia. And then when I played for Little Rock, Nick Allen was there along with Marcelin Lopez over Chiquito, players of colour, Panamanian, a Cuban and American and Canadian. And it was all somewhat different on the road. Stay in certain hotels, eating. I mean, the biggest thing was you enjoyed playing the game. You felt safe on the field. But when the game is over, what we're going to eat, what hotel would stay there. So, you know, you stay with your players. And that was the safe part of what the game was all about.

MG: As a Canadian, how do you think those experiences shaped you?

FERGIE JERKINS: Oh, jeez. The first time it happened, I was in Miami, Florida, and you read about it in the paper and now you're exposed to it. We couldn't go to Miami Beach. We stayed at the Sir John Hotel, which was just off this great boulevard in a Cuban neighbourhood of Cuban and black neighbourhood. So and then the bus trips. We were always on a Trailways bus and we had to go to St. Petersburg or Tampa or Palatka, Florida, and we had to give our meal money. Some of the white players, they got off, got us whatever we had to eat, and then they brought it back to the bus to us. But it all changed. You know, it was just part of it, I tell people, just part of a page of a book and the book totally rewritten.

MG: The book for you starts in Chatham, Ontario. And again, I mean, the story of you picking up baseball is a fascinating one. How did you end up in that game rather than hockey?

FERGIE JERKINS: Well, [unintelligible], I was the area scout with end up scouting me and and converting me from a first baseman to a pitcher. I had a pretty good arm. And he thought that I should utilise that ability on the mound, not playing in the infield. The hockey end of it was important, too. As a kid growing up, I thought if I was playing in the NHL, you know, the Montreal Canadiens were my favourite team and Toronto Maple Leafs. But teenage, I changed my mind about hockey, and it seemed to come rather easy because I worked at it and then all of a sudden scouts from other teams, Detroit, Pittsburgh, were looking at me, Cleveland and the Chicago Cubs, in fact. But when I signed with the Phillies, I said maybe this is the opportunity now to be a professional athlete. Let's see if this ability I have is going to carry me further on through the minor leagues.

MG: When did you realise you were good?

FERGIE JERKINS: At the age of 17, when the second year of being a pitcher and then I started really winning ballgames in the Chatham area. I had to bring a fastball. Curveball was bad. And they asked me, but I could throw the ball past people. And then I found out that that was going to be the occupation I was going to perform for many, many years being a pitcher.

MG: What about basketball? Tell me about the Harlem Globetrotters.

FERGIE JERKINS: Well, that was a story in itself in 1967. I just got through watching my first year, 20 games. And Lou DiMaggio was the promoter for the Harlem Globetrotters and they had a downtown office on Michigan Avenue in Chicago. He'd come to the ballpark and it's late September. Just want my 20th game and this gentleman walking through this game, there's nobody in the ballpark or taking batting practise. He's got a three piece suit on a briefcase. And right away, I want to know what let's just go out with me. And he's waving at me and I'm in the outfield chasing flying balls balls. So I motioned over and I went along to the left field sidelines where the dugout is a little further down and I'm walking towards the bullpen and he's walking further down. And he basically says, Jenkins thinks I need to talk to you like that. And I said, OK, yeah. I said, how can I help you? And he said, I represent the Harlem Globetrotters. I'm trying to find out are you going back to Canada when the season's over? We'd like for you to participate with the Globetrotters and be the pitcher and one of the skiffs in the third quarter or Meadowlark hits a homerun off.

MG: Meadowlark Lantigua.

FERGIE JERKINS: Yes. So I said, well, I'd give up home runs during the baseball season. I not give up a home run as a basketball player no matter what. So he wanted to know what the situation was, what I was going to go home, I said, well, the season's over October the 1st, I'll be home October 3rd or 4th. And he says, well, the team's going to be in Sherbert and in Montreal and Three Rivers in the middle of October. Prior to that team is coming back into town late September. We'd like you to meet some of the players. I said fine. I said. Where is the office? So it gave me the address [unintelligible] to having it he'd like for me to meet. And I was very fortunate. It was an off day. I went down to the office and [unintelligible] and Curly Neal, Jackie Jackson, Lee Ann Hilliard. And he told me prior, if you would show up with some sneakers and some shorts, we like for you to work out with them. I said, like, I can handle that. No problem. I'm twenty four, twenty five years old. I said, I think I could handle that. So and I love basketball, too. I played a lot of basketball in high school. And we went to a local gym not far from downtown area. And it was, I think it was part of a health club and they had a gymnasium connected to a basketball court. And I did a shoot around with them. And it kind of I felt ease playing the game because I enjoyed basketball and it all worked out. And to this day, they let me enter into their world because they're entertainers and basketball players. Well, these guys are all Americans and they could play the game of basketball. And it just seemed like what Meadowlark and Curly, when they talk to me, we're on the same level as we're athletes. And, you know, the nice thing about it is, as I said, they let me into their world because they're entertainers and they enjoy playing on the road in front of thousands and thousands of people. And now in the winter months, I'm a hard try and I enjoy it. I did it for three seasons.

MG: Do you ever pinch yourself and just kind of like wonder how you ended up with the life that you've had?

FERGIE JERKINS: You know, I've been surprised a few times I walked out with the St. Louis Blues. I got a hockey contract in St. Louis. And now I don't pitch myself, but I just think that I was the right place, right time in that era where athletes did a lot of different things that basically worked out for me, and when I looked at the baseball end of it, I pitched myself a lot of times I really had some really successful situations, especially winning ballgames. And when I look back at it, I really had a lot of fun. I was consistent and I stayed healthy, which was the number one aspect of playing the game, staying healthy, being able to pitch every fourth day.

MG: What do we need to do in this country to be able to create more Ferguson Jenkins to be able to create more elite baseball players coming out of this out of this country?

FERGIE JERKINS: We need another franchise in Montreal, but we lost that franchise with the expose. They need to get another team. I think Toronto is is not that, with this pandemic now. They can't play at home. They're playing in Florida. But once this, I think, is over, I think someone needs are so smart people. People with a lot of money need to get another site and Montreal build a stadium and get a franchise going again. I think with the two organisations, I think a lot of the Canadians, the youngsters would probably cater more to baseball and hockey or basketball or soccer, and that would really, really enhance some of these young Canadian youngsters to play the game of baseball.

MG: What do you think it's going to be like when they unveil the statue of you in front of Wrigley? I mean, they'll be the whole dramatic moment, right, where it's covered in a sheet and then you pull a thousand down it comes.

FERGIE JERKINS: I've already had friends who tell me that they're going to be there. You know, people that I've met through my career. We're going to we're going to be there. We're going to be there. When is it? I said, well, I don't know what it's going to be, but possibly opening day 2022, outside, maybe on one of the streets, I'm not sure. See the ballpark surrounded by four streets, Waveland, Sheffield, Addison and Clark. Ernie is on Clark. Billy and Ronnie are on Sheffield and Harry Carey is on Waveland, so the only other street left is Addison. So I'm not sure I'd like to be close to Ernie because we were roommates and Billy Williams and I were buddies for years in Seattle. We got together a lot, Billy and I, and Fisch. So it's going to be one of those streets. So I'm looking forward to it.

MG: What do you think it's going to look like? I mean, I don't know. Do they come and somebody sits in front of you and does a life like resemblance of you?

FERGIE JERKINS: Well, they they've asked me what pose I would like either a follow through or wind up that type of situation. And you see the picture in the background of me?

Yeah. You're standing are you standing out, getting ready to throw the ball?

FERGIE JERKINS: That's all. Almost to the middle of the line, to the top of the wire, because my arm is up above my head. The other part is the follow through. The picture's already gone, so I'm not sure what pose you're going to want to use. The artist and I will probably come to a situation where it's going to be pose that pose, and I'm pretty sure they can put one of those together and being an artist and it's going to be in bronze. He's going to have a tough time putting the follow through together. But but it'll all work. I think it's going to.

MG: Would you have ever imagined that kids in Chatham would end up being in bronze, as you say, outside to from the field?

FERGIE JERKINS: Not ever in my wildest dream that I ever think that there would be a statue outside a ballpark where basically most of my career was in Chicago for 10 years all day baseball would be a bronze statue there in a home uniform because the other guys were in a home uniform, too, which is white with a blue pinstripe. My kids are going to love it, my family and they're looking forward to it.

MG: What an honour and a real pleasure to talk to you. Ferguson Jenkins, thank you very much. And congratulations again.

FERGIE JERKINS: Thank you. Bye bye.

MG: Canadian baseball legend,Fergie Jenkins joined us from his home in Frisco, Texas. Well, that's it for The Current for this Friday. Q is up next on CBC Radio One. Earlier in the programme, we marked one year since the Portapique shootings in Nova Scotia and we heard about Jolene Oliver, who was killed along with her husband, Aaron Tuck and their daughter, Emily. We heard from Mimi Woods, who owns the pub where Jolene worked as a server and about how Jolene was so friendly that customers would come in to the pub just to see her. We also heard from Tammy Oliver McCurdie, Joline sister, about Joleen's positivity and how she loved to sing and dance. And Tammy told us that when Jolene died, she had a list of songs that she loved in her wallet. This song by Whitney Houston was her favourite on the list. I'm Matt Galloway thanks for listening to The Current and have a great weekend.

SOUNDCLIP

[Song]

Friday April 16, 2021 Full Transcript

Social Sharing

More from this episode