Faith leaders

Guests: Rabbi Lisa Grushcow, Reverend Ted Harrison, Imam Ibrahim Hindy

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[Song: Singing Halleluiah]

PC: Seeing the sounds of a United Church of Canada online service from last Sunday, it's a far cry from a congregation singing in worship together in the same place. With Passover and Easter this week and Ramadan starting later this month. This pandemic is changing how religious groups are gathering. So this morning, we are bringing together three faith leaders from across our country. Lisa Grushcow is the rabbi at the temple, Emanu-El-Beth Shalom Synagogue, that's in Montreal. Ted Harrison is the reverend at the Trinity United Church in North Bay, Ontario. And Ibrahim Hindy is the imam at Dar al-Tawheed Mosque in Mississauga, Ontario. Hello to all three of you.

GUESTS: Good morning.

PC: Rabbi Grushcow, let me begin with you. What were your Passover seeders like this week?

RABBI GRUSHCOW: We did Passover on Zoom this year. So for the first night, two nights ago, we had a congregational seder with around 100 people connected in mostly from Montreal, but also from different places in the country and in the world, actually.

PC: And how did it all go?

RABBI GRUSHCOW: It went well. It went well. It's the technology is a gift in the sense that we can still see each other's faces and we can still communicate with each other. And that's a gift. That's the silver lining.

PC: One of the things about a seders is, is the gathering, physically gathering around a table, being close to one another, contributing to the various traditions. Did you feel a sense of connection or a similar sense of connection, even though you were miles and many miles apart from one another?

RABBI GRUSHCOW: It's certainly not the same. You know, if you were to give me a choice between doing it this way and doing it in person, I would do it in person. But there are things about it that are, that give that same feeling of connection. And in fact, we ended up with people at the table who otherwise might have been isolated in normal times because they can't leave their home or because they're far away geographically and so on. And so there are unexpected pieces of it which help people connect to haven't connected before. But it is an extra challenge to really make it feel real. You know, I'm pushing back against the language of virtual because I think these services and these seders and these ways of gathering are as real as it gets these days. And we really need to embrace that.

PC: Reverend Harrison, what are your plans for Good Friday and Easter services?

REVEREND HARRISON: Well, I got caught a little flatfooted because I returned from a family vacation during our March break in Ontario. And they had cancelled one of our Sunday services already. And it was a former chair of our board, John Roberts, who called me and said, look at you. You've done Zoom meetings before. And I think Zoom is going to be our common denominator here. And I said, yea. And he said, well, you know what, we need a Sunday service, you know, put on a really nice shirt. People need to hear a word. And we've been progressing towards this weekend and just sort of improving and trying to do services, trying to get online participation of people, people doing readings and prayers, videoing them by their phone and sending them in and putting all these things together. One of the most beautiful parts, I think is getting choir members to sing along with the track. And then John, who I'm now calling our digital producer, something he's never been called before, is pulling these tracks together so that it sounds like the choir is singing together.

PC: Oh, so he's mixing it all.

REVEREND HARRISON: Yes, yes. He's mixing it all together. And we're trying to, we've got the the Sunday school online and trying to get that sense of connectivity, as you know, as a community. Of course, like Rabbi Lisa's saying it's you know, it's a poor, you know, second cousin to being face to face. But the boy. Is it ever life-giving in a time like this.

PC: And so give me a sense, they you said, you know, we're doing this by Zoom. How many congregants would you regularly have on a Sunday versus what you're getting now?

REVEREND HARRISON: Well, I'd say on a on a typical Sunday. I mean, not Easter, but a typical Sunday. We'd have, you know, 100 to 150 people in church. But the last Sunday in March, you know, which is just sort of a typical Sunday in Lent. And Lent to not, you know, not exactly a feel good season, but the last Sunday in Lent, we've got over 600, you know, certainly in the hundreds. And so we don't have that many people, you know, on a Christmas Eve. Like there is a real, a hunger and a curiosity there.

PC: So you're a bit of a YouTube star now, are you?

REVEREND HARRISON: Well, I wouldn't I wouldn't think about that, but I think my mum shared it with all her friends.

PC: Yes, fair enough. You know, it's interesting that you make that point because Angus Reed survey found that one in five Canadians say they personally or someone close to them have been supported by faith institutions since the coronavirus began spreading in our country, which is a testament to those who are religious, relying and leaning on their faith through these difficult times. Imam Hindy, what has changed in your congregations, at your at your place of worship?

IMAM HINDY: Well, a lot has changed, obviously, because of the circumstances. You know, we've taken all of our services online. But, you know, there are some rituals in Islam that require being there in person and require quorum. And so there's been like suspension of specific rituals so far as including the Friday prayers, which is something, you know, pretty unprecedented in in history. So it's a bit of a challenge. And we're trying as much as possible to recreate some level of normalcy in people's lives through the online services. Know, I have one person who, she's a recent immigrant. She didn't have any family here. And really all her socializing is based on coming to the mosque with their kids. And so it's really challenging times for people in particular, you know, those types of circumstances. And as much as possible, where we can go online and they can see familiar faces, or if I can go to the mosque and I'm there alone, but I can live capture from there. It gives people like a sense of connection to what normal would be and that maybe, hopefully one day soon we can be back to the place that we want to be.

PC: And of course, all three of you talk about the value of technology in being able to connect with people. But what are you doing, Imam Hindi for people who don't have technology or on those aren't as technologically savvy as others.

IMAM HINDY: So I think, you know, all of us wearing clergies sometimes have to wear different hats. I was clearly wearing a hat of an I.T. person for a while because a lot of the elderly were calling me and asking me to help them set up so that they can join us on our online sessions. But also, you know, a friend of mine is an Imam, in another city. He actually has been setting up conference calls so that people on their landlines or their cell phone can call in like a conference call and listen in as well, which I think is really important because, you know, when we think about going online and having virtual sessions where we think about, you know, connecting to younger people who maybe normally wouldn't come to the mosque or the church. And that's all true. But we have to also think about maybe there's some people we're leaving out as well.

PC: I want to stick with the technological aspect of this just for a bit. Rabbi Grushcow, you use Zoom, which for people who don't know what that is and they will soon enough if they don't already, a video conferencing site. We know that there have been security issues that others have had to deal with in terms of zoom. In terms of zoom bombing as it's come to be known. Have you had to deal with that?

RABBI GRUSHCOW: We have, unfortunately. You know, the first week we moved our services on to Zoom things went very smoothly. And it was really heartening to see people coming together, though I would agree with the imam that we've also really needed to work. First of all, to get people online who want to be online and second of all, to reach people who aren't through old fashioned phone calls and other ways. But the second Shabbat, the second Friday night that we had services through Zoom, we were Zoom bombed, which was really a disheartening thing to happen, though of course it's not it's not stopping us. We put in some security parameters, so we didn't experience the worst of it, as I know other synagogues have, where participants will come in and they'll screen share pornography or images of Hitler. So on. We did have somebody shouting out racist and anti-Semitic as it gets towards the end of the service. And we also had somebody posting, you know, pornographic early in the chat. And that was you know, it's disheartening from the point of view that you think to yourself, who is it out there in a time like this who would do something like that? But, you know, we have to worry about security when we meet in person. So I suppose it's not so surprising that we have to worry about it online as well.

PC: It's unfortunate either which way. Imam Hindi, have you had things like this? Are you concerned about those kinds of attacks with your congregation online?

IMAM HINDY: Definitely concerned about it. And I haven't had it happen to me personally. And I have a limited amount of like usage of Zoom in particular. Whenever possible, I would try to just livestreamed through Facebook or Instagram or something like that. But obviously Zoom is in very advantageous in and the idea of being able to see other people as well and letting them participate. But we haven't had that issue, like a neighbouring mosque had that issue as well. And it's a concern, unfortunately, in these difficult circumstances. You know, it can bring out the best in people, but it can also bring out some of the worst in people. And so, you know, we're trying to increase our security when we do go on Zoom to try to mitigate the possibility of it happening to us.

PC: Christians and Jewish people are in the midst of their holy celebrations right now, are marking of important dates to them. And Ramadan, of course, begins later on this month. Big tradition is the breaking of the fast. Each and every night. How do you plan on supporting your congregation through Ramadan?

IMAM HINDY: Yes, it's going to be a bit difficult. Ramadan is so centred around community. You know, even for people who are not that connected to the mosque, just the idea of Ramadan and breaking your fasts with other people at your home or you go to their house and break fast with them. And, you know, I really worry about the mental health of a lot of people, considering how disconnected they might feel from each other. So we're looking to do, you know, breaking of the fast and having dinner online through Zoom, so that people can see each other's spaces and maybe just feel a little bit more connected through that. But it's going to be a difficult time. There's no question about that. And I think that, you know, one of the messages I'm trying to really talk to our congregation about is that, you know, God is challenging us with this difficult circumstance. And maybe it's time for us to embrace that challenge to some extent. Maybe, you know, this is the year that we focus a little bit less on the social aspect of religion and a little bit more on the personal aspect of religion, to spend a little bit more time, you know, worshipping God alone, connecting to God alone, having a little bit more of that individual connection with God. And I think that's going to be a bit of a theme of what I'm going to be talking to my congregation about.

PC: Rev. Harrison, I'm glad that the imam brought up the thinking of messaging or the message. What message are you sending to your parishioners these days in the time of COVID-19?

REVEREND HARRISON: Well, you know what? The whole season of Lent that this is sort of dropped right in the middle of is predicated on the idea of Jesus going out into the wilderness, the 40 days in the wilderness. And so we are we're in our own wilderness time right now. And this is an opportunity, I think, very much like Abraham is speaking of doing that reconnection, you know, that we're not suggesting that that God is sending this to us as a trial. But God will God works with whatever God gets and redeems it. And so I think there's an opportunity here to go a little deeper and to to prove to ourselves and be a an asset to the world. And in being a community and reaching out to one another.

REVEREND HARRISON: And how is that message or those messages being received by your congregation? This is a tough time, no matter if you have faith or you don't, right?

REVEREND HARRISON: Oh, absolutely. I think how well some of these online services are doing is not just the congregation. I think it's a little wider. And I think, you know, I think people have always been curious about what goes on in churches and mosques and synagogues. And if anything, people now have the time to investigate that. And it's sort of a low threat way to do that, to go online. And people are looking for the kind of hope in the groundedness in a tradition, the connectedness of a community that we all have to offer. I mean, we are three representatives of those Abrahamic faith traditions. And these are these are your birthright, whether you consider yourself a you know, whether you define yourself as a child of God or just as a citizen of the world. And we've got some very life-giving practices, songs, traditions, and people should be availing themselves of this.

PC: Rabbi Grushcow, what kind of messages have you been sending to people who share your faith? What are you telling them?

RABBI GRUSHCOW: And I would agree very much with our colleagues. The advantage of being part of an old religious tradition, which we all are, is that we've all dealt with suffering and catastrophe and anxiety and all of those very human existential emotions are our things which we've responded to and which we've had conversations about and been part of for thousands of years. And so in some ways, it's an invitation to join in that conversation. I would say in some ways it's the age old religious teaching of comforting the disturbed and disturbing the comfortable. I don't think anyone's especially comfortable these days. But recognising that Judaism, at least at its core, is a religion of journeys. It's a religion of transformation and adaptation. It's not about staying still. It is about finding ways to dig deep to the core of what it's about, to be human, to connect to each other, to connect to God or whatever we may call God and to go forward on that basis. But I think the other piece that is challenging in this time is all of our traditions say it's not only about helping our own community, it's helping others who are in need. And all of the things we would normally do to show up, to volunteer, to help, to cook, those are restricted right now. And so there, too, we're trying to find ways to just be creative, because people do want to help. They want to give. They want to contribute. They want to do their part as citizens, as people who are spiritually motivated. They want to make a difference. And so we're trying to provide ways for people to do that. It is ultimately about what can we do, how can we be here for each other and how can we help repair this world, which clearly is broken.

PC: You know, all three of you are people who others rely on in the good times to mark their celebrations through life, but also through their darker times and their difficult trials. And so I want to ask each of you about you, Imam Hindi. How trying has this all been for you?

IMAM HINDY: Tough questions I wasn't expecting to get. I think, you know, from the beginning, I've felt like I've just been reacting like there's been so many issues coming up and every day feels like a year, in terms of like the issues that arise and I feel that I'm responding to. And I think when you're constantly responding to different crises, you kind of put your own emotions on the backburner. I feel like when this all subsides, I'm going to have to, you know, get in touch with all these feelings that I'm probably leaving behind at the moment as I'm trying to respond to others. But that's a little bit of the message as well. I've been telling people is that sometimes when you focus on other people's problems and you try to help other people, your own difficulties or your own anxieties start to seem smaller in comparison. And it's a really powerful way for you to overcome the hardships and obstacle that you're seeing in your life is to just focus on helping other people through their problems. And in return, your own problems seem a lot smaller. And it's you know, it's a really helpful message, particularly at this time when people really are feeling a sense of loss, like they've lost something that they used to take for granted that was part of their life. And to tell them, okay, that's a real difficult problem. Let's see how we can help other people. And if we do that, then I think your own problems seem a lot more manageable after that.

PC: What about for you, Rabbi Grushcow? Where are you leaning in these trying times other than your faith? Like, how are you finding it all?

RABBI GRUSHCOW: You know, I would agree 100 percent with each day feeling like a year and a each week like a decade, I think. But, you know, I always have to remind myself to practise what I preach and it's about community. And I'm leaning on a tremendous professional team that I've got at the temple and colleagues who are around the world and my family at home. You know, I feel really fortunate to have the support that I have. And also the perspective, you know, we're part of a big moment right now, but we're also part of a bigger story. And that helps, too.

PC: Reverend Harrison, how are you finding, though, all this for yourself?

REVEREND HARRISON: I'm thinking about, well, once a day before I go for some kind of exercise and I take the dog and - I'm in a relatively small city. North Bay is some 55,000 and. And, you know, I'll see people on the street, some of them will give a wave. But most of the time people give this kind of apologetic look. Actually, that's very Canadian. So like they're apologizing with their eyes. But it's this look that sort of says, you know, normally I'd come and talk to you or I'd give you a handshake or a hug or something. But it's this look that kind of says it's not always going to be this way. You know, and I take a lot of heart from that.

PC: I appreciate all three of you making time for us this morning. Thank you very much.

RABBI GRUSHCOW: Thank you for the conversation.

PC: Lisa Grushcow is a rabbi at the Temple Emanu-El-Beth Shalom Synagogue in Montreal. Ted Harrison, the reverend at the Trinity United Church in North Bay, Ontario. And Ibrahim Hindy is the imam at the Dar al-Tawheed mosque in Mississauga, Ontario. All right. The CBC News is next. And then we'll be back with stories of Canadians stranded abroad and their incredible journeys back home here to Canada. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay, sitting in for Matt Galloway. And you're listening to an extended edition of The Current. We're back in just a bit.

Homecoming

Guests: Campbell Chamberlin, Cydnee York, Scott Bainsbridge

PC: Hi, I'm Pia Chattopadhyay, sitting in for Mapp Galloway, and you're listening to The Current.

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PC: Still to come, it's Fish Friday, Yes, indeed it is. In half an hour, we will go to a St. John's restaurant trying to keep tradition during a pandemic. But first, there really is no place like home.

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VOICE 1: So there's nothing you can do to get us home.

VOICE: How about [cross talking]

Five people can't go home. [Cross talking] Six people can't go home because you can't get in touch with an airline.

Yes. It's a shame.

Your an airline

Time is flying. You know we have family too.

PC: You can hear the frustration in Campbell Chamberlin's voice as he spoke to staff with a Thai airline a few weeks ago. Like thousands of Canadians, he was abroad when countries started closing their borders to stall the spread of the coronavirus. And so the getaways people had looked forward to abruptly became efforts to escape and to get home. Some struggled more than others, even relying on military escorts to get back to Canada. We're going to hear stories from three Canadians now, beginning with Campbell Chamberlin, who's now home in Ottawa. Hi.

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Hi. How are you?

PC: I'm okay. How's it feel to be home?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Quite nice I have to admit, yes.

PC: So we just heard part of your conversation with an airline staff member and clearly you were frustrated there. What were you feeling and thinking right then?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: It was just challenging trying to get some answers out of people, we heard from so many different staff in the five days that I was there and the stories are always changing and the reasons for being stuck there are always changing. So in five days, I don't think we really got any answers until finally we were just on flights and leaving.

PC: And when you say there, you mean Thailand, you were headed from Thailand to Sri Lanka when you were refused entry to Sri Lanka. Then you returned back to Thailand. Yes

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Yes. When we got back to Thailand, we refused entry there as well. So you're actually stuck in the airport for the five days in a holding room.

PC: You stayed in an airport holding room for five days?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Five days, yet weren't allowed out.

PC: And what was in this holding room?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Few mats on a wooden bench. Thankfully, there are a few washrooms, not the cleanest I've ever seen, but certainly not the worst either. So it was nice to see the sunny side days later, even through the windows at the airport.

PC: And they gave you food.

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: They did. Three meals a day from 7-Eleven, not the fanciest, but I got food.

PC: And then you got to go to the washroom and all that. But I'm guessing you didn't shower for a few days or have any of your personal possessions.

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: No, we weren't allowed to access our luggage. I still don't know why, to be honest. It wasn't until day four that I was able to get my toothbrush. That was nice. And a towel. So there was a shower. Not one that I wish to ever use twice. But after four days, you take what you can get.

PC: Sure enough. And during those five days, you were trying to get home. That's your main objective in all that is, I got to get back to Canada. So were you left on your own to navigate that, Campbell, or were you getting help?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Well, thankfully, I got a lot of help from outside the airport because I wasn't getting any help from the airline. It was really confusing. There were times we were told we needed to find our own flights and we were told only into our own country it had to be Canada. But at the same time, we were told that we needed to get special permission from each of the airlines that would take us. So it was a mix of a whole bunch of things. The airline sometimes showing us flights and then telling us we were denied and then us showing them flights, being told that we can't take them. And eventually, five days later, they found a flight that I was allowed to take to Japan, which originally they told me I wasn't allowed to do. So maybe I could have left on day one. Who knows?

PC: So this happened to you, this is sort of mid March. So, you know, nowadays an hour feels like a day and a day feels like a week and so on, so forth. At that time, what did you know about the spread of the coronavirus and how it was affecting borders around the world?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Well, before I left, honestly, in Bangkok, everything had been business as usual, I really didn't appreciate the severity of the situation, but I learned it very quickly when I got to Sri Lanka. Because every single foreigner was turned away and sent back. And even when I was sent back, I didn't appreciate it. I figured I would just go back to Thailand. Let me in. And then I would resort out my plans and figure what I was doing next. So it wasn't until I was sort of locked in an airport for five days and flights cancelled day after day, I thought, okay, well, we have this might be a little serious. I should try to get home, which was more difficult.

PC: When did you set off on your travels?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: A year and a couple months ago.

PC: So you've been travelling the world for quite some time now.

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Just one part of it on this trip, yes. I've been to quite a number of places in the past.

PC: And so what were your plans before they all got stymied by coronavirus?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Well, originally I was going to Sri Lanka for months and then to Turkey and then across Europe and then wasn't sure I might have touched on into Africa for a bit. But now I'm home.

PC: And so how do you feel about being home, given that you're, you know, you travel plans for the next number of months have been truncated?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Well, honestly, normally, I think I'd be really disappointed. But when you appreciates almost how lucky you are to be home, I'm just thankful to be back. Now I can take my time and find some new travel plans, wait until things settle down. But at least I can do that here at home. Not stuck in an airport somewhere.

PC: Fair enough. And you were travelling with others from other countries?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Nope. Just on my own.

PC: Just on your own. But you met up with fellow travellers. How were they navigating all this similarly to you, no matter where they were from?

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Pretty much. I think a lot of people, depending on what country they got stuck in, a lot of countries really cracked down pretty quickly. And people in those countries understood how serious the situation was. But in a lot of countries in Eastern Asia where I was, it didn't seem as bad as it was. So I had some friends who continued to travel. And I think now everyone understands that, okay you need to get home and it can be challenging. Flights are cancelled and things are changing so quickly. So it's been challenging for everyone, I think.

PC: Well, welcome home.

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Thank you very much.

PC: I'm sure your family and loved ones are glad you're back as are you. Campbell Chamberlin, thanks a lot.

CAMPBELL CHAMBERLIN: Thank you for having me.

PC: Campbell Chamberlin, an Ottawa resident who spent five days in a Thai airport. As you heard him talk about there before securing a flight back to Canada. Well, Cydnee York landed in Guatemala for a much anticipated vacation on March the 12th. The nurse had travelled. There were three of her co-workers. Within days, though, the country, that country began shutting down borders and airports were closed. A curfew was put in place. And with the number of COVID-19 cases climbing around the world. Cydnee and her co-workers decided the best option to get back to Canada from Guatemala was to cross the Mexican border on foot. Cydnee is now home in Edmonton. Hello to you.

CYDNEE YORK: Hello, good morning, how are you?

PC: I'm okay. This sounds like quite an adventure you're on, so let's get to it. You were stuck in rural Guatemala. You decide your best option is to cross the border between Guatemala into Mexico. How on earth did you and your friends do that?

CYDNEE YORK: So it was quite the journey. And at that point, that was kind of our only option for leaving the country. So it took a lot of planning and organisation. Our family helped us on their end with booking flights and whatnot. And we you know, we got different information from other travellers that we had met in the short time we were there who had actually also done this trek across the border as well. And it was from the day that we left [unintelligible] or to the day that we touched down in Canada. It was a four day journey between travelling to the Mexican border, crossing the border, taking a flight within Mexico and then having to wait for a flight home to Canada.

PC: And so how did you get to the border from where you were?

CYDNEE YORK: So all shuttles were banned in Guatemala at that point because of the concentration of people in the vehicle. So we actually had to hire a private driver to drive us from the city, or the town we were staying and to the border.

PC: And through all of this, you know, travelling is sometimes a comfortable journey and sometimes not as comfortable. What were your concerns as you're going overland between Guatemala and Mexico? What were you concerned about at the time?

CYDNEE YORK: Ultimately, our safety at that point, we were in a rural area of the border crossing. It's not like something that you would feel like a major border crossing between Canada and the U.S. We were the only travellers in sight in when we were crossing the border that day. So you kind of just stick out like a sore thumb. And like I said, you're in rural Mexico, Guatemala territory. And so ultimately our safety was our biggest concern for sure.

PC: And so you make it via taking private shuttles and walking cross borders and so on and so forth. You get to Mexico City. And then what happens?

CYDNEE YORK: So in order to get to Mexico City, we had to overnight, actually in a more rural city on the south side of Mexico called Tapachula, and we had to take a two hour flight from Tapachula to Mexico City. Once we were finally in Mexico City, we had two days to wait for a flight back to Canada. So we just kind of self isolated ourselves inside of inside a hotel room and only left for food.

PC: So I should say you left on your vacation in sort of the second week of March. Yes?

CYDNEE YORK: Yes.

PC: Did you and your co-workers have the discussion before you left? Like, should we go? Should we not go? This is a you know, mid-March is around the time the pandemic is declared. Were you guys having those conversations beforehand even? Should we get on this flight and get down to Guatemala?

CYDNEE YORK: Absolutely, like it was definitely brought up. Like we were very much in the know, as in health care workers of what was going on around the world, but at that point the talk was still very much like restrictions on people travelling to and from China and then Italy and Spain region. And you know what, it kind of seems like this have been going on for a couple months. And the virus is the issues with the virus that seemed to kind of stay on. Let's say the other half of the world. So, you know, yes, we did have the discussion. But at that point, the cases in Central and South America were nearly nonexistent. And same with the United States and Canada. We figured that we would, you know, we would just continue with our travel plans.

PC: And did you, at that time, were you waiting on repatriation flights? Was that a thing then? What was a messaging you were getting from the Canadian government?

CYDNEE YORK: It was very hard to get inside or talk to someone inside the government. We had been on the phone for days waiting to get through to someone, leaving messages with no return, emails, etc. Once we finally got in touch with someone inside the government, they told us at that point there was no plan for repatriation fight to get Canadians from abroad. So that's when we decided to default to this plan to go to the Mexican border, because at that point we had no end date of when we were gonna be able to come back to Canada.

CYDNEE YORK: As you've mentioned, you were travelling with co-workers, you're all nurses, and the urgency to get home, it was you know, many people felt that. But as a group of health practitioners, did that play into your decision to leave when you did?

CYDNEE YORK: I think it did play in some. We knew we had a job to come home to. It's not like we had like an undefined end date of our trip. We weren't just touring Central America for fun. We went for a two week vacation, you know, as healthcare workers having a vacation period. And so knowing that we needed to come home and, yes, for sure. You know, when you're talking to your co-workers who are at work and they're feeling the stress of what was going on. And yes, you want to be there to be part of your team.

PC: So you got back from Guatemala on March 24th and you've been self isolating since then, but you're able to go back to work this week. What was it like to be back in the hospital?

CYDNEE YORK: It was it was definitely a different feeling coming back to work. My first day back at work was yesterday and the vibe at work is definitely different for sure. You can kind of feel the anxiety in the air and kind of just this daunting feeling of when we're going to see this thing really hit us.

PC: Cydnee York, we're glad you're back home. Thank you for joining me. Appreciate it.

CYDNEE YORK: Thank you for having me.

PC: Cydnee York is in Edmonton, nurse who was able to get back to Canada by crossing the Guatemala Mexico border on foot last month. Well, bad enough trying to get yourself and a few friends home, right. But how about a group of twelve? Scott Bainbridge was one of a group of a dozen people who got stuck in Ecuador. The veterinarian was on a trip there to help vaccinate animals when things went array. He's home now in Toronto, where he has been self isolating since March 29. Hello to you, Scott.

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: Hi Piya, how you doing this morning?

PC: I'm okay. Let me first ask you how self-isolation is going.

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: Oh, it's... Getting a lot done around the house. I got to tell you, it's not bad. I've actually, we've got telemedicine conferences set up here, so I actually can work from home, which is kind of cool. So I've been zooming with clients and getting them to show me their pets. And so we've been able to do some work from home, which is kind of nice.

PC: Okay. So tell me, when you got to Ecuador in early March, what was sort of this scenario and when did you realise how bad things had gotten and that you might be stranded there?

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: So, I mean, I kind of had my finger on the pulse of things because we had been down in Australia and in the end of January and we kind of saw what was going on in China. And then it seemed like things had kind of quieted down before we left. But I mean, I was definitely aware of it. As your other guest said, South America had very few cases. I think at the time when we left for Ecuador, they only had 16 cases in the entire country at that point. So I guess I thought worst case scenario is things started to kind of heat up there. We would just get on a flight and come back at that point.

PC: And there was a dozen of you trying to travel together. Yes?

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: Well, in the end there was. So we went down there, seven of us or as my family, plus my buddy's family and his two young girls came down with us. And then we actually just coincidentally met up with a group of people from Horseshoe Valley that were in the same complex where we were. And so in the end, it was cut off all or none trying to get home. We weren't going to strand anybody. So we just had to move en masse as a group when we decided to go.

PC: So you're try to move 12 tall people yourself and 11 others.

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: And it was not easy. Yes.

PC: So tell me about that. What does it take to get, you know, yourself and 11 other people tickets back to Canada?

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: It was tough for sure, because, I mean, where we were. So we bought a home in Ecuador for four years ago. So we were pretty safe where we were. We were in a very remote area and we had a roof over our heads. So, I mean, we were we were content to stay. We just didn't want to kind of panic and go. But trying to organise, you know, four children, eight adults, all in agreement as to what's the best move here. We had a couple of different options, but none of them were really great. And a lot of miscommunication. So as adults, we'd have a meeting every day and kind of decide what our thoughts were for that day and what we wanted to do. But we were all like were all in it together and we just knew we weren't going to leave anybody behind.

PC: And ultimately, how did how did you get tickets back to Canada?

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: So, I mean, the way it worked for the repatriation flights was leased, we didn't really hear anything. And for about the first week after we're stranded and then suddenly started getting emails from ROCA, the registry of Canadians abroad, saying that they were going to be repatriation flights, but they were coming at Quito and we were a 10 hour drive from Quito. And Quito is up in the Andes at 12000 feet. And that drive the best of times is not a great drive to do, so never mind. Under the circumstances, with all the state of emergency and all the police blockades that were set up at that point. So we didn't want to go to Quito if we didn't have to.

PC: But you did have to go. And so how do you get 12 of you from rural Ecuador up to Quito?

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: So in the end, there was a tweet from Silvie Bedard, the Canadian ambassador, saying that there was actually maybe going to be a flight that was going to leave from the Monto Airport, which is on the coast, three hours north of us, and that flight was put in place to kind of rescue all the people stranded on the coast. Again, can it really be confirmed? The airlines wouldn't confirm it. So we ended up taking the chance that that flight was going to go. We actually chartered a private driver to come down 10 hours from Quito. He drove down. He's spent the night our place to rest him up. And then we actually the made the trek out to the Monte Airport once we got confirmed seats on that flight.

PC: And was a drive. Okay. I know in Ecuador, there's no blockades and other things on the roads. Were you stopped at any of those.

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: Yes, no, we weren't. So we went out during curfew because we just we didn't want to go- the flight was leaving at 4:30 in the morning. We didn't want to go there any earlier. We didn't want to be in a hotel or stuck in an airport in Monto. They had quite a few cases up there at that point. So we thought it best to go out just about five hours before the flights we left about. Walk at night, and I think we were stopped by four different blockades and at one point too, just what we thought we were through them all, there was a actual fence stretch across the highway blocking our route to the airport. And remember, the drivers even just kind of looked at each other and he just pulled up on the grass and drove around it and got back on the highway. And, you know, I was waiting for the flashing lights to be following us but nobody seemed to mind what we did and we got into the airport that way.

PC: So, you know, it's one thing to think about and talk about and plan the journey and even, you know, know that you have a seat on a flight or whatnot. But getting there is, as you say, you know, part of the journey sometimes harrowing. So when did it finally hit you and the others? You were travelling like, look, okay, phew, we're headed home.

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: I think finally when we got to the very last blockade was full of police and flashing lights right outside the airport. And I'm like, okay, this is going to make or break because either they're going to turn us away at this point or they're going to let us in. And they checked our paperwork and they say, you know, we got a police escort right into the airport. And I think it was at that point I was like, oh, my God. okay. You know what? We're actually going to get on this plane. We're actually getting home. And all of us are getting home, too, because that was the whole thing. Try to get twelve people on the same flight.

PC: And when you, you know, get off that plane and put your feet on Canadian soil.

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: Honestly, the just the stress of the entire ten days before just kind of all came out. It was just like you were. I was never, never so happy to be back in Canada till that point. So, yes, I'm just thrilled to be home.

PC: Explain that. Explain that feeling over a lot. You know, you've had your time and self-isolation. I know you're working, but just sort of reflecting on, hoof, being back home.

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: Yes, I know. It was, the thought down there was you know, we're in a really remote area, the chance of getting sick or probably pretty tough because we don't really see any people down there. But at the same time, if we did get sick, I didn't want to be in Ecuador. We have a great healthcare system here. And it's something, you know, we just take for granted. So I just know that now that we're home with our families and just say, you know what, we're so much safer here and we're going to be so much better looked after this case.

PC: Well, we're glad you're home. Thanks a lot, Scott.

SCOTT BAINBRIDGE: No problem. Thanks for having me.

PC: Scott Bainbridge, a veterinarian in Toronto, one of the Canadians who have made it home safe, of course after being stranded abroad because of the pandemic. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay and you were listening to an extended edition of The Current. All this week on this program, we've been asking you to share songs that comfort you during these times. I understand. I get it. This is a highly personal thing. It's based on taste. And what brings you solace? What's soothes one person may not work on another, but hopefully as we play these, you'll hear a song that truly moves you. Today's song suggestion comes from Barbara Matthews from Guelph, Ontario. She's recommending Hawksley Workman with Piano Blink. Here you go, Barbara. Enjoy.

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PC: Hawksley Workman with Piano Blink, that song suggested by listener Barbara Matthews, it's part of our calming music project. We want to know what songs soothe you in these difficult times. So tweet us @TheCurrentCBC or go to cbc.ca/thecurrent. And once you're there, click on the contact link. We'll be playing your songs in the days ahead. Okay. Coming up on the program, protecting our elders is top of mind right now. They also have a lot to teach us. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay. I get ready for some sage wisdom when we return. We're back in just a bit.

This 107-year-old remembers the 1918 Spanish flu, and sees the similarities with COVID-19

Guests: Joan Maxwell, Don Robertson

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PC: Hi, I'm Piya Chattopadhyay in for Matt Galloway and you were listening to The Current. Well, seniors are already some of the people hardest hit by this pandemic and now many are forced to stay away from their loved ones. Seders and Easter lunches have been cancelled. And last month George Allen of Bridgetown, Nova Scotia, had to scale back celebrations for an astonishing milestone in his life. His 107th, yes, 107th seventh birthday.

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Yes, we cancelled the birthday party. Because of the flu, well, it's not exactly flu, but whatever it is people get. My son came up to see me from my home. He had bought me a piece of cake from his own. The others didn't come because they know it is only four or five people to get together here. We has piece of cake together, but that was about all there. We just closed down on everything here. It's very lonesome this time. We can't get together with anybody at all. He said they bring even [unintelligible] they get to the door. That's all. Everything else was cancelled. It's kind of lonesome. We cope with it. I love, love music. I play music. I listen to music. And I also raise a lot of scripture. I take my hymnbook is over. And I say, hello, with them.

PC: That's George Allen, a retired Baptist minister who turned 107 years old last month. So 107, that makes him one of the very few people left who remember the Spanish influenza pandemic that swept around the world starting in 1918. Reverend, Dr. Allen was just a little boy at that time, living North Sydney on Cape Breton Island when the deadly virus reached his community.

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Was this awful time it was something like this now. North Sydney wasn't a very big place in those days. We all moved pretty much along other. Houses after the houses were quarantined. You have to take food, just leave it at their doorstep. No way. [Unintelligible] was made by my mother. She had a based taurine and a stove, as [unintelligible] had two or three gallons in it. She with my father and I take her all around to save people. You go away from [unintelligible] all you could do is leave the food on his doorstep and knock on the door. His old. It's they very, very, very, very hard, dear, when your neighbours died and people died. But it was an awful lot of deaths. In our churches we have prayer for all those people who died. We got [unintelligible]. We shared what we had with other people who hadn't anything, who were not able to do anything in their homes. We shared it that way. We got along helping people and we helped ourselves by doing that.

PC: That's George Allen. Well, the pandemic we are all living through now also brings back memories for people who lived through subsequent outbreaks of terrible disease, polio, tuberculosis, scarlet fever. I'm joined by two of them. Don Robertson is 82 years old and lives in West Vancouver. Joan Maxwell is 72 and lives in Surrey, B.C. Hello to both of you.

JOAN MAXWELL: Thank you.

DON ROBERTSON: Thank you very much. Good to be here.

PC: Don Robertson, let's begin with your story. What happened to you when you were in Grade two?

DON ROBERTSON: Well, in grade two, I came down with this disease that turns you red and gives you a sore throat called scarlet fever. And so I was quarantined with my mother. The two of us in the house. It was four room house. So it's very tight quarters and others. Public health official came up and slapped a big red sign on the front of the house saying 'quarantine, do not enter'. So that, that's the beginning. And one of the things that happened was the kids in my Grade two class decided they would write letters to me. And I have the letter somewhere in the story, but I couldn't put my hands on them. I've kept them all these years. And our neighbour Diane delivered them. And she came up to the back fence. And I was leaning out my window and she threw the letters over the fence and ran off. And I didn't want to come near, come near me. So that's how it got started. One of the things that we set up. I don't know whether Joan had this kind of mechanism or not, but we had set up a kind of a phone thing with a tin can on one end and a wire that went down to the back fence. So the neighbour kids talk through this and up to my window and in the bedroom. So that was common, a thing that kept me entertained. But the thing that really stands out for me is that my dad was a buyer for woodwork stores and he was overseas at the time that I was quarantined. So when he came back, he couldn't come into the house. One day he did put a ladder up to my window and there was a cardboard box that he hoisted up to my window filled with toys. And it was just an incredible experience and a wonderful memory of my dad climbing this ladder and hoisting this box of toys over the windowsill. And there was one big red truck that I hung on to for years. And it was kind of a momento for me of that particular experience.

PC: Wow. And so, Don, how long were you quarantined in your room and in your house?

DON ROBERTSON: Well, it was three weeks, although I remember my report card had said I was absent for 60 days in Grade two. So I'm not sure whether it was longer than three weeks, but it was at least three weeks that we were quarantined.

PC: You say you were in the house with your mum. Was she healthy?

DON ROBERTSON: No, she wasn't she had a thyroid. And I think I was kind of a miserable kid in some ways. And I know I wasn't easy on her and she wasn't particularly easy on me. So my recollection as it was kind of a miserable time for both of us.

PC: How sick were you? What were your symptoms?

DON ROBERTSON: Well, I had I had a red beet red kind of skin and sore throat. That's those are the two things that I remember. You know, it's a funny thing that all I really remember is the good experiences that I had and a little bit of misery with my mum. But in terms of the actual illness itself, I don't really remember exactly how I felt.

PC: Joan Maxwell, let me bring you in. What is your childhood story about dealing with an epidemic?

JOAN MAXWELL: Well, this was tuberculosis, which is a little bit different because it's bacterial. But my mother had tuberculosis, and when she became pregnant, there was even a discussion about whether she was allowed to have a child. And they were allowed to have the child if they could give it up. But luckily, I had a family member who would take me.

PC: So you come into the world, your mother has TB, and then what happens to you?

JOAN MAXWELL: Well, then my aunt kept me for five years. My parents lived in Vancouver and they were in Vancouver General Hospital and in and out kind of at that time. They weren't well, a chess centre, and I used to go and visit them, I could wave from the street. I remember. I do remember that. But I had a nice childhood in Surrey in the woods and stuff with my aunt. But I always knew the situation. I always knew that this was temporary. We didn't know how long it would last and that I would go back to my parents eventually, which I did.

PC: When you were six?

JOAN MAXWELL: When I was six? Yes.

PC: So was that the first time you. You know, we're in the same room as your parents that you were physically allowed to touch them and say, hi, mum and dad, I'm your daughter and I'm six.

JOAN MAXWELL: It must have been because I have no memories of ever being in close contact with them. That's something I don't really remember. But I do remember waving to them.

PC: And so when you got home, do you remember, you know, those initial days?

JOAN MAXWELL: Oh, no, not at all. It was just normal. That just was what happened. I don't remember. There was no trauma. Really. I think they did a great job. From my point of view, I knew the whole situation. I knew that I was loved no matter where I was, and then when I went home, I just carried on life with my parents. It was very seamless.

PC: And what about your parents health? How did they fare?

JOAN MAXWELL: Oh, well, it came and went. They were always, always had to be very quiet and rest a lot. And then my dad relapsed once or twice, but my mum seemed to relapse more than that and would have to go back to hospital now and then. Over the years, the year I was in grade 10, she was in for the whole year. So that was a little bit difficult because I had a brother, an eight year old brother, and my dad was working. We had a house by then and lived in a house in East Vancouver. So I learnt to run a household. And I was the one.

PC: Yes. You had to do what you had to do, right?

JOAN MAXWELL: That's exactly it. Yes.

PC: And so, Don, what was your thinking of the world at large of that time?

DON ROBERTSON: Well, there was a lot of fear because at the same time this, I had scarlet fever, the polio epidemic was raging. And my cousin came down with polio, which was really scary in the family. And then a girl down on the corner, just three, three houses from us came down with polio. So it was a frightening time. And then, of course, it was just right at the end of the war, 1945, there was a lot happening. And my mum had CBC on all the time. She kept track of what was going on in the war. And I can still remember in my mind the radio going and getting war reports. So there was a lot of different, different things happening. That's why my sense was that there was there was quite a bit of, quite a bit of fear, but there was also a lot of a lot of innocence, too. I mean, I had really neat group of friends in my neighbourhood and, you know, they keep kept in touch with me and that's a treasured somewhere in my memory.

PC: So let's fast forward to 2020. How are you both managing? Joan, how are you managing now with COVID-19?

JOAN MAXWELL: Well, we're being very, very careful to do what Bonnie Henry suggests and that stay isolated. We only go out to do our shopping in the special seniors early morning time and make sure we're well armed with sanitizer and staying in. That's what we're doing. But, you know, you've got the world at your fingertips with the computer. So it isn't really that hard. I don't find.

PC: So you're listening to the advice of Dr. Bonnie Henry B.C.'s, medical officer of health, and doing all this social distancing, the physical distancing. And as you say, you got the computer. So is the computer helping you with the aspects of socialization? Like, what are you doing on that computer?

JOAN MAXWELL: Oh, I'm learning things I never knew. I now can talk to my daughter by messenger. She's right there in the room with me. Awesome.

PC: And what about you, Don? How are you managing with the coronavirus?

DON ROBERTSON: Well, you know, when we're retired, we have practised just lying on the couch. So that part comes quite naturally. But actually, my wife and I say that we're really quite busy. We have eight more e-mails than usual, people keeping in touch with us and more phone calls. And our daughter, even though she's in Montreal, is very, very strict and keeps giving us guidelines as to what we can do or what we can't do. So we feel like I feel like I'm in detention and I got to report to my daughter or not report to it, depending on. Easter dinner, we have lined up with a group of longtime friends. We're going to have a Zoom dinner together. And our grandchildren are designing the Easter bonnets and we're going to make them between now and Sunday. So, yes, we're going we're doing that kind of thing, which is taking advantage of these particular times that we're in.

PC: Don, you spent your working life as a minister in the United Church, so you know, you're not going to be at church on Sunday. But if you had to preach to your parishioners this particular Easter weekend, what would you say to them?

DON ROBERTSON: Well, my goodness, you're putting me on the spot there. Well, one of one of the things that I've been thinking about is, is the emphasis about returning to normal, people wanting to return to normal, get back into restaurants, get the economy back. But normal for a lot of people is not normal. Like I volunteered on the Downtown Eastside. And for them, they would hope. I'm sure that out of this time we kind of look at things differently. And when we say we're in this together as a country, which I think is evident in a lot of ways that that would carry over after we get back to this old so-called normal, I have this title of the sermon in my head. I was just thinking about like a tyranny of the normal. And all the normal can really be captive of our minds. And we have to be careful about that.

PC: And Joan, you know, the image you said of you waving to your parents through the window. It reminded me of, you know, we have a big window on the side of our house and we live across the street from a park. We have so many friends and family members who come and waved us through that window. And so there's so many children now in 2020 who are waving to their family members and to their friends through the window. So what do you want to say to those kids and even adults where we're kind of separated by windows at the very best of times right now?

JOAN MAXWELL: Well, I just. All I want to say is to be kind. We're hearing things that people not being kind. And we just need to be kind. This is hard for everybody.

PC: Thank you very much to both of you, I appreciate it. Here's to continued good health for you and your family and loved ones. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

DON ROBERTSON: Thank you.

JOAN MAXWELL: Thank you.

Joan Maxwell lives in Surrey, B.C. and Don Robertson lives in West Vancouver. We do want to hear your stories about living through previous outbreaks. If you lived through those times, write to us or better yet, record a voice memo and send it to us at thecurrent@cbc.ca. Now here's one more bit of elderly wisdom.

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My name is Rose Marie Hopkinson and I am a West Vancouver person, but I grew up in Northern Ireland at the beginning of the war in the early 40s. One thing that has struck me about this virus is the thing that people say the most is wash your hands. Now, I had an idyllic childhood. I had three older brothers. We played out in the fields all day long and when my mother wanted us to come in, which we only did when we had to, the call was wash your hands. She didn't tell us that our meals were ready. You know, we didn't have any antibiotics. We got through measles, mumps, chicken pox, diphtheria. We only got one bath a week. But at the same time, we survived everything with that mantra. And actually, I even though I'm 79, I clean houses for a living. And there's nothing like soap and water for washing anything thing.

PC: Thank you for that. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay in for Matt Galloway and you are listening to an extended edition of The Current.

COVID-19 won't stop Fish Friday as restaurant finds safe ways to keep tradition

Guests: Vicki Barbour

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[Sound: Sizzle]

PC: Okay. So that is the satisfying sizzle of deep frying cod. Today, it being Good Friday, is also known as Fish Friday, a day when many Christians abstain from meat. In St. John's, Newfoundland, that means many people will be trying to get their hands on some fish and chips. It's a local tradition and it will live on this year, if not a little differently. Vicki Barbour helps run Ches's Famous Fish and Chips. It is a business her grandfather started back in 1951. And just so you know, a feed a Ches's is a rite of passage for people in St. John's. Vicki, good morning.

VICKI BARBOUR: Good morning, Piya.

PC: How are you?

VICKI BARBOUR: Busy.

PC: Busy?

VICKI BARBOUR: Very busy. This is always our busiest day of the year. We're just extra busy this year trying to figure out how to do it safely.

PC: So walk me through that. How are you doing at this year?

VICKI BARBOUR: Well, we're doing just put it into perspective. Normally we'd have lines up down the streets dining room to be changed, the take out area would be full. This year, we were not having any of that. People have to call. I'm going to answer the phone.

PC: I can hear it ringing.

VICKI BARBOUR: Yes. Yes, I know. They're waiting for me to get off the phone with you. Then I process it through credit cards. Then we're asking everyone to stay in their cars. We call them one at a time. We say your order is ready. We bring it over, lay it on a table right by the front door. We step back, the customer comes in, takes their food. I sanitize the table and sanitize doorknob and we start again.

PC: So this has taken a lot of thinking of how to do this properly in 2020. Contrast this to last year or the years before. What does this fish Friday normally look like?

VICKI BARBOUR: Normally, Good Friday is all hands on deck. It's sort of like a reunion. We even have former staff come back and help us out in this location. We have 20, 25 people working. Today, it's just the family. There's six of us here. Me, my mum, my dad, my aunt, my sister, my cousin. That's it. So obviously, the capability is way less. The amount of product that we're going to go through was way less. The sales are going to definitely be way less (I'd say one-tenth of what we would normally do. But, you know, it's not about that this year. It's really about being able to provide some normalcy for people so that this tradition of getting your fish and chips on Friday is still there.

PC: And so normally and in other years, like, how much fish do you go through? How many potatoes do you go through to make fries?

VICKI BARBOUR: Well, for all locations, combined, there are six of us regularly. We'd go through about 5000 pounds of codfish and over 15000 pounds of potato.

PC: On this day on Good Friday, every year?

VICKI BARBOUR: On Good Friday.

PC: Wow, wow. And so do you have any sense of how much like how much cod do you have today?

VICKI BARBOUR: We might have 100, 150 pounds here. Basically, our take on it is we are going to keep serving fish today until we either run out, which is the most likely scenario, or we run out of stamina, which is also kind of possible.

PC: Well and you only do cod right?

VICKI BARBOUR: Yes, we do codfish.

PC: Is that is a St. John's thing?

VICKI BARBOUR: It's a Newfoundland thing. You know, all other fish have a name but codfish is just fish.

PC: Okay and so for those of us who aren't in St. John's or other parts of Newfoundland and Labrador, describe this tradition of eating fish and chips on Good Friday, because, of course, Fish Friday, many Christians and other people on this Good Friday they don't eat meat. But what is it about fish and chips in your province?

VICKI BARBOUR: You know, it's really a St John's thing. When we started expanding our restaurants outside of St. John's, we were surprised that when you Good Friday would come it wasn't as big of a deal. So I'm not really certain. I have done a little investigation into the history of fish and chips to St. John's. You know, it began with a little food truck probably in the 1930s happening. You know, we've been open since 1951, but we've always had a storefront. I think it's just one of those things. Fish was very common. And back in the day, fish was very cheap. Potatoes were very common and also very cheap. It's a foodstuff that Newfoundlanders identify with, you know, fish and chips. And then if he can just deep fry it, it's even better. Right?

PC: Well, listen, I think a lot of people are identifying with this right now. They're thinking, 'I'm going to make fish and chips tonight at home if I have fish and what should I do? So you do the traditional battered fish?

VICKI BARBOUR: Absolutely. Yes. The same recipe that my grandfather started 69 years ago. My dad, my sister and my aunt still use that recipe today. You know, they're the ones who do all the cooking today, at least we do have other cooks, but they're not working with us right now, unfortunately. It's just delicious. One thing people don't realise about deep-fried fish and chips is the fish is actually steamed. Because it gets this nice coating of the batter over it. When fat hits that fryer right away, that starts to crisp up so that fish is actually steaming in its own natural juices. And it's so good. When you do it right, it's white it's flakey on the inside, the outside is crisp and golden and we just can't get enough of it.

PC: Okay, so that's the goal to have crispy fish that's steamed. I have failed miserably at fish and chips. So and I'm sure others have. What is the secret to good fish and chips? Give me a bit of a hint.

VICKI BARBOUR: Okay. So there's a couple of secrets. And take this with a grain of salt, because I'm not allowed to cook because I'm a raging klutz. But, you know, they say do share the secrets. The quality of your fish is the most important thing. You know, we're using frozen codfish right now because there's no fresh to be had. But we really go out of our way when fresh fish is available to pick the best of the fresh. And that's what we have frozen so that even when we have frozen fish, it's still a real good firm, white fish. You want a nice, evenly cut piece. So it's going to cook throughout. Right. You're not going to have some parts overcooked and some parts undercooked. And then with your batter, it's just a matter of having your oil to that right temperature. You don't want it too hot. You don't want it too cold. One of the things that we do, you know, we kind of just start to dredge it a little in the oil as we're dropping it in kind of a back and forth motion. It's very hypnotic when I watched my dad do that. And he can tell, you know, that it's just that right temperature. And then he lets it go and it just starts to cook up. It's harder to do at home. You really need a good deep fryer. I always say if they're going to try and cook fish at home, you're better to go pan fried or do it in the oven or make a stew out of it and save the deep fried stuff really for the people who have the proper equipment for it.

PC: Well, Vicki, the phone's ringing again in the background. It's been ring through this whole thing. And people are saying, get off of the radio and take my fish and chips, sort of. So I will let you go. Enjoy today and all the fish you will be serving up and the people you will be keeping a safe distance from your customers. I'm sure they're very thankful for what you're doing. Thanks again.

VICKI BARBOUR: Thank you very much.

PC: Vicki Barber helps run Ches's famous fish and chips in St. John's, Newfoundland. Her family has been serving up some of that city's fish and chips for almost 70 years now. And so to mark fish Friday, this is Fish and Whistle, an apropos song for Good Friday. It's all about forgiveness and fishing. And it's sung by the legendary John Prine, who died this week from complications from COVID-19.

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[Song]

Fish and whistle by the legendary John Prine. The CBC News is next, then reasons to feel reassured, hopeful and safe. Canada's Chris Hadfield, Clara Hughes and Madeleine Thien will share their reasons. When we return, I'm Piya Chattopadhyay, sitting in for Matt Galloway. And you are listening to an extended edition of The Current.

Canadian heros

Guests: Chris Hadfield, Clara Hughes, Madeleine Thien

PC: Hi there, I'm Piya Chattopadhyay in for Matt Galloway and you were listening to an extended edition of The Current.

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PC: Still to come, a story from the Vinyl Cafe. Yep, that final cafe. First, though, a reminder to focus on what's good.

SOUNDCLIP

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VOICE 1: Now, not everyone thinks physics is fun, but I do.

VOICE 2: We now have a charter which defines the kind of country in which we wish to live and guarantees the basic rights and freedoms which each of us shall enjoy as a citizen of Canada.

PC: Just a few memorable moments in Canadian history, wrap moments that remind us what we can accomplish even under really tough circumstances. The three Canadians you were about to hear. Know what it's like to push through challenges. Col. Chris Hadfield is the first Canadian to walk in space and command the International Space Station. Clara Hughes is the only athlete in history to win multiple medals at both the summer and Winter Olympic Games. She's also the founding national spokesperson for the Bell Let's Talk campaign. And Madeleine Thien won the Scotiabank Giller Prise and the Governor-General's Literary Award for her excellent novel. Do not say we have nothing. Matt Galloway spoke to them all last month about how to cope during these uncertain times.

MATT GALLOWAY: Chris Hadfield, you have a perspective on this planet and on this world that most of us do not, having seen it from far, far away. When you pull the lens back and you think of the global challenge that we face, what stands out to you?

CHRIS HADFIELD: Yes, I've been socially isolated. That's for sure. I think what really stands out to me is how each of us chooses to deal with this. I think collectively that is going to determine the future of us all. And so it's really kind of a microcosm, I think, for Clara and Madeleine, who as athletes and authors have spent a lot of time socially isolated and working on their own as well. How you identify the actual threats that are involved here, don't just be afraid of something that you haven't tried to understand. You couldn't operate a spaceship that way and you sure can deal with, say, a big global problem like this one that way. So to me, the most important first step is to understand the actual danger and not just be afraid and run out and buy toilet paper, but actually learn about it and then give yourself things to do within the constraints of what you have. Define some objective as success for yourself. You know, not the end game, but what am I going to do today. And now that I know what the real problem is. What am I going to do today? And then take action and give yourself things to do? I've worked every single day on the space ship. And it it's working now with my family and extended family and friends as we deal with this global pandemic. But if there's going to be beautiful, delightful, very human things happening every single day. Don't miss them. Make sure you do you make the most of the serious nature of the things that are happening around us.

MG: I want to come back to that in a moment, Clara. Everyone is being affected by this in some way. When I last saw you on social media, on Instagram, you seemed to be hiking through the desert and now you are in self-isolation.

CLARA HUGHES: Yes, I am. I actually returned home on Friday the 13th, or Saturday the 14th, about 1:30 a.m. from Tucson, Arizona, and I was in a hotel room ready to set out on a 900 km desert mountain traverse. Oh, great. You know, looking forward to, but when I saw on Wednesday that the NBA had suspended their season, when I saw that things were unfolding as they were, I knew I had to come home. And coming home, I was on two flights, one international, three different airports. I had been exposed to people that were showing symptoms of, you know, through my own self education, as Chris said. You know, I understood what the symptoms were, what this was and I knew potentially I been exposed. I probably will never know. And we're doing everything we can in our household to keep me isolated from my husband, who has the most susceptible lungs, and, of course, keep me isolated from the greater community and keep me and anybody else out of the hospital, because they're going to be people that need to be there and need access. And I feel like I can do something. And it's allowing me to feel like I am achieving something every day, that I'm doing my best to keep everybody around me safe. I'm not doing anything anaerobic. I'm keeping my lungs healthy and not vulnerable and also getting out and moving in nature, which has been so helpful.

MG: I was going to say, physical health is one thing, mental health- and you have spoken a lot about, you know, movement is as medicine and meditation. How's your mental health in this?

CLARA HUGHES: Oh, it's you know, every day it's up and down. And it's been a real challenge to as much as I want to be informed and educated. It's been a challenge to not be over hyper stimulated. And one of the things that, you know, over the last especially three years, I've spent, you know, half of the year walking. It's it's been a really beautiful pursuit of quiet in nature on these long distance trails, particularly in America. The greatest thing for me has been disconnecting from social media, from the hyper connection of the device in the hand, because I have no cell service. And so being at home more, I've been struggling with finding that discipline because I want to know. But there is such a thing as knowing too much. Taking in too much information and stimulating the part of your nervous system and your chemical flow that can lead to anxiety, that can lead to stress. So it's a balancing act. And I'm connected with so many people who live with daily struggles with their mental health. And, you know, we've been encouraging each other and I've just been so inspired by what they're doing in terms of creativity, in terms of reaching out and then shutting off and monitoring themselves as much as they can in that way to keep themselves healthy, psychologically speaking.

MG: Madeleine, you've been in the United States living and teaching down there. And then you came home, what, last weekend?

MADELEINE THEIN: I came home Sunday night.

MG: How difficult of a decision was that for you to come home?

MADELEINE THEIN: Track breaking and we are only four or five weeks into the semester at the City University of New York. I felt very close to my students and many of them couldn't leave New York or were isolated, or were afraid to go back to their families elsewhere. And it was very, very hard to leave. You know, we are continuing, of course, remote teaching. So I see them several times a week online. And I think for all of that, it's been a really good sense of continuity. We're there for each other. It's creative writing. I teach novelist and short story writers. And in some ways it's also an important time because they're trying to think about what narrative and storytelling are in this moment and to try to push through some of the anxiety and uncertainty that they feel. And I I feel grateful that we're trying to do that together, all of us as fellow writers.

MG: There is a lot of work, Chris, being done here in Canada. And we're going to speak about this a bit later on in the program, also around the world, to try and find a vaccine for the coronavirus. And there is a scientific element of medical innovation that is at the forefront of this. You tweeted recently, the best antidote for fear is competence. What did you mean by that?

CHRIS HADFIELD: Well, the natural reaction to change is to be uncertain. I mean, what else could you do? But often within our carefully constructed lives, the changes are small. They're not radical and often the change is not externally applied. But in this case, the change is radical and externally applied. So it makes a lot of people feel uncertain. And when you feel uncertain is sort of that natural gorge that rises up in you, that you could hear in each of our voices here, can become sort of overwhelming. So how do you deal with that? How do you deal with sort of an unspoken fear or at least an ill defined fear? And for me, the the absolute key is to separate danger and fear. They're not synonymous. They're not the same thing. The danger is understandable. It's comprehensible. It's being dealt with, as you say, the trying to come up with all of the different types of scientific and societal inventions and changes going have to make to be able to thrive as best as possible during this. That's all being done. But at an individual level, I think you really owe it to yourself to not just get overwhelmed by all the noise. Don't listen to CNN screaming at you all day long. To actually use the Internet, which is a wonderful tool to have during isolation. And find out for sure the details of this, how it's spread and what you can do. Become informed with the reality of the danger, so that you're not just crossing your fingers and hoping, but you actually have an understanding of the risks involved and that will give a lot clearer purpose to your own actions.

MG: Part of this is also, though, about the fact that, I mean, you can imagine people would feel anxious, but we're also living in a time when things that would have seen unimaginable in years past- like we put you in a rocket. We shot you into space. You lived in the space station. These are things that actually happen. So given that, what should we be thinking about as we brace ourselves for the next few days, weeks, whatever lies ahead, Chris?

CHRIS HADFIELD: On board of spaceship, we constantly look and prioritize threats. And I think we need to do that. The vast majority of Canadians are going to get through this fine. It's definitely a significant threat to a subset of our population, my parents included, of course, and many others. So I'm taking that extremely seriously. But bottom line is we have a really strong, robust societal network in Canada. People are working hard to make sure that that continues. If you look at how they've made it through it in China and what they've done in South Korea and such, I think we can be pretty reasonably optimistic as to what the long term is going to look like, but it's going to take a lot of individual work and change of behavior. And so just accept that and then just shift to the new normal and move forward. This is not the end of the world. This is, you know, it's just a thing that we're all going to have to deal with. And it's really the onus is on each of us to find the beautiful stuff that's happening every single day and not allow the noise to overwhelm.

CLARA HUGHES: Clara, I think of extraordinary feats. And I mean, you've obviously accomplished them on the bike and on the ice. And people often say, athletes will say this loudest, that the biggest challenge they face might be physical, but sure, but then it's superseded in some ways by a psychological challenge. What have you in the midst of these anxious times, what have you learned that might lend itself to coping with a crisis like this?

CLARA HUGHES: Well, Matt, I think the biggest thing is, you know, in pursuit of that kind of athletic excellence, a big part of it is lessening the variables, taking control of all of the things that can go wrong before they do. And then there are going to be some but lessening the amount of those things and making those things unknown, putting those things into your power. And I think in this context, a lot of what people might see with sport is just these amazing moments of executing a race or a competition and perfection, you know, in motion and movement and sport. And for me, it was summer and winter sport. But what people don't see are the places and spaces in between, the calm, the quiet, the silence. The biggest challenge for me leading into every single Olympic performance was making myself sit, making myself not think about creating this situation where I am not thinking about what is coming. I'm present and that is mindfulness. And that is something that, I think as an athlete and as a human being, I've been working on. And it's been a life project of how can I be more present. And I think right now, as I've been in, you know, this self-isolation that I have been able to do and privileged to do, and I say that, you know, very seriously, because there are so many people that have to go to work that are not only having to go to work for financial situation, but they're going to do the work that we need. In that grocery stores are open, for that hospital, that first responders, all of those lines of work. I'm not in that position. And I want to say clearly that I'm so grateful for every person that is on the front line in any capacity right now. But what I'm doing at home and what I can share with people is you cannot control that unknown. But you can bring yourself into this present moment and you can cultivate energy that not only helps yourself, it helps everybody around you, it helps every person you may see if you're outdoors, walking and walking your dog or just getting out for a breath of fresh air and you practice the social distancing. It's a look that you give someone that lets them know maybe in their day that they're incredibly stressed and feeling anxious that they're going to be okay. You're going to be okay. We're human beings. We are together. You're not alone.

MG: And little smile, that nod, that wave that you give somebody.

CLARA HUGHES: And even just to look in your eye that says we're together. And I think as an athlete, when I look back at the moments of most power that I had, that I had those races that were so connected, I truly felt like I had 37 million people inside of me and I was connected to each one of them from coast to coast to beautiful coast to Canada. And it's a part of being a part of the human condition, the struggle and the joy. Sport. Yes, the Olympics is said to brought people together. But this is something that I think brings us together on a whole other level as citizens of this world.

MG: Madeleine, what is the role of creativity during these times of uncertainty?

MADELEINE THEIN: You know, I thought last night, and one of the things the writers are saying was that they felt that everything they'd been thinking about for the last few years was now irrelevant. That the paradigm had shifted, that they didn't know how to address this moment. And I asked them for the next five years, for the next five years do you really only want to be reading novels about a pandemic?

MADELEINE THEIN: And they immediately laughed and said no. What I think we're waiting for is variety and complication of this world. and something about making art. About writing and about any of us who turned to that world outside of ourselves and in our world and imagined to foiled. Something that I feel I've received from writing novels is that you have to transport yourself into other ways of thinking, other times, other, sometimes other catastrophes. And when you when you do that imaginatively, you return yourself to a time when other people could not see around the curve of the future. They could not anticipate what was coming next. And they were trying to figure out how to live moral and ethical lives, when to take collective action, when to be silent, when to speak. All those complex decisions of living. And I think that we turn to whatever it is. Painting music, not just for that space to morn everything together, but also the joyful places, you know. I also told them that there is so much value in describing the world that led up to this moment. In fact, it's as important and relevant as ever to know the ground that we're standing on, how we got here, what kind of inequities are making this catastrophe worse, but also what kinds of collection make a better future possible. And that feels more relevant than ever.

MG: Chris Hadfield, are you surprised by the prime minister talked about extraordinary times needing extraordinary measures and we've seen people do extraordinary things. I spoke yesterday with a 10 year old who's writing a coronavirus musical. We've heard from doctors and nurses stepping up on the frontlines. We've heard from people self-sacrifice so that they can build a bigger community and help people. Are you surprised by that?

CHRIS HADFIELD: Not, kind of the opposite, Matt, I'm delighted, I think, to underestimate your creative potential, every single one of us is a pretty common thing. But every single person you meet knows things that you don't know and has done something brave that they haven't told you about. And when we get a little slow down at the daily pace like this is enforcing, when people have a chance maybe to reflect and reprioritize, a lot of that creativity that Madeleine was just talking about, that comes out. And I think our leadership is doing a good job trying to, you know, whether it's business or political or whatever there they are trying to do what they're in those positions to do. And I'm really happy to see it, but I'm really delighted by individual acts. It right down to the very point of how do you treat someone that you're walking by at an appropriate two meter distance. You know, it's a wonderful time to just sort of re-think and make sure that you're trying to do the right thing. And there's going to be countless examples of that, including musicals coming from ten year olds.

MG: Then just before we let you go, I'll ask all three of you this and hopefully we have a chance to talk again, because I think we might be in this for a while. But what is one thing that you've seen or heard already during this that's made you proud of Team Canada? Chris?

CHRIS HADFIELD: I think actually it's one of the biggest people's fears as food and the regular ability to feed their families and themselves, and to have that become a national priority and have the people that run the biggest food distribution networks in the country to stand up and say unequivocally, that is fine, you're going to get regular food and we're going to be some small adjustments. But do not worry about this. It's going. The shelves are going to be stocked enough to take care of everybody. I think that that was really important in the last few days.

MADELEINE THEIN: Madeleine Thien.

MADELEINE THEIN: I think it was when Bonnie Henry in British Columbia gave the news conference and she became emotional, talking about the people that we collectively need to protect and that only through each of us, you know, caring for each other well, we get going to be able to protect as many people as possible. And I was at a different tenor than I was hearing in the United States in such a different level of tenderness and compassion and speaking to what has to bind us together at this moment.

MG: Did it feel like a Canadian moment to you?

MADELEINE THEIN: Yes, it did. It was unafraid of emotion, unafraid of the complexity of the situation, unafraid of asking something of each other.

MG: Clare Hughes, for you, what is what is a moment that you've seen in the last little bit that is, as I say, made you proud of Team Canada, if I can put it that way.

CLARA HUGHES: Without a doubt, Hayley Wickenheiser and her statement to the International Olympic Committee, calling them out on not looking after the health and welfare of the athletes that are still thinking they're preparing for an Olympics in Tokyo. Hayley is a doctor in residence right now. Of course, everyone knows [unintelligible] 18 million time Olympic gold medalist [unintelligible]. She, my teammate and three different Olympic Games. And she lead by example. She is a rock star. And she's she. Her statement said it all. And it makes me see that Canadian women in particular continue to lead in the world of sport. And she said it exactly as it should be said right now.

MG: Were you surprised ? Grateful that she said it, are you surprised that it took someone like her to say that, that there's still this fantasy that these Olympic Games are going to happen later on this summer?

CLARA HUGHES: With everything that has unfolded in the Olympic movement in recent years, I'm not surprised by the rhetoric by the International Olympic Committee. I'm grateful for the messaging that the Canadian Olympic Committee is giving out to its athletes. So leadership [unintelligible] and people in that in the roles of the current, you know, team, that is probably not going to Tokyo for the Olympics. But I think it took Hayley - and she's in the medical field now and she has so many grounds that she's standing on with authority and with respect. And, you know, it had to come from someone. And I'm proud that it came from my teammates, from Team Canada.

MG: You are all among our best. And it's inspiring to hear what you think we are capable of and where we may go from here. Thank you all. And I hope we get the chance to talk again.

CLARA HUGHES: Thanks, Matt.

MADELEINE THEIN: Thank you.

CHRIS HADFIELD: Thank you, Matt.

PC: That was Matt Galloway conversation with three prominent Canadians, Chris Hadfield, the first Canadian to command the International Space Station. Madeleine Thien, the author of several books including Do Not Say We Have Nothing. And Clara Hughes, one of Canada's Most Decorated Olympians. That conversation took place last month. And since they all spoke, of course, the Olympics have been cancelled. And Hayley Wickenheiser has lent her voice to an effort to get medical supplies for frontline health workers in Canada. Okay, coming up, portraits from a distance. How some photographers have been trying to bond with their neighbours with consent and the help of a zoom lens and a sourdough story.

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They first heard about girls sour dough starter Polly Anderson's annual Christmas party. I have a geneology, said Carl. I could show you if you come over. You have a genealogy, said Dave, swallowing a mouthful of salmon. Of the starters, said Carl, well, like a family tree. I have it in a frame in the den. Really? Mumbles Dave, reaching for the eggplant dip with another piece of the bread. So when Carl and Gerda appeared at his house the very next Christmas with a loaf of bread. Dave realised Carl had misinterpreted his hunger for enthusiast.

PC: Straight from the Vinyl Cafe's archives. We will share some Stuart McLean and sour dough with you. You can hear the rest of that classic when we return in just a bit. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay. You're listening to an extended edition of The Current.

Porch portraits, Vynil Cafe

Guests: Erik Pinkerton, Susan Gaudet

PC: Hello, I'm Piya Chattopadhyay in for Matt Galloway, and this is an extended edition of The Current. Photographers have the pleasure of turning moments into memories, but it's tough to do when you have to keep a distance from your subjects as we do nowadays. Many Canadian photographers have come up with a new genre of photo. Sometimes it's called Porch Portraits as a creative way to keep doing what they do. Even in the midst of this pandemic. But now concerns about people doing non-essential work, means even those photos, taken at a distance, may soon be a thing of the past. Joining me now to talk about this are two photographers, Susan Gaudet and Erik Pinkerton's. Susan is based in Charlottetown, P.E.I., while Erik lives in Marsh Lake, Yukon, its small community about 55 kilometres outside of Whitehorse. Hello to both of you.

ERIK PINKERTON: Hello.

SUSAN GAUDET: Hi, thanks for having me.

PC: Susan Gaudet when did you decide to start taking photos at a physical distance?

SUSAN GAUDET: I would say it started about a week after the kind of lockdown happens. So I would say it was mid March, I would have started.

PC: And what do you say you called your project the Front Steps Project? I think that name explains what you're doing, but describe what kind of photos you're taking.

SUSAN GAUDET: So I was meeting up with families. I was setting up little areas of the city and meeting up with different families in that area. And I would show up at their house and they would come out on their steps and I would go into their lawn or their driveway and take photos of them sitting on their step with a zoom lens. So I was very far away and just kind of taking in the moment of them at home and taking pictures of the kids by themselves so that in 20 years they have that image to kind of look back and remember this time.

PC: Eric Pinkerton. You recently moved to Marsha Lake from Whitehorse. What what's it been like for you taking these kinds of photos there?

ERIK PINKERTON: It's been amazing. It's been a great way to sort of get to know what the new area that we're living in and meet some of the neighbours without getting too close to them. It's been lots of fun.

PC: And are you taking the same kind of photo safely from a distance, people outside their their homes?

ERIK PINKERTON: Yes, it sounds like it. I'm in. It's a subdivision, but it's more or less rural. So for the most part, I'm pulling up in my car, taking a step out of the vehicle and directing people from the porch. If they're not outside yet, then I just give them a call. So they come out the front door and we sort of shout back and forth to each other.

PC: This is you have a lot of ground to cover, right? Because you're in the southern lakes region. You've been taking portraits. It's a long, vast stretch of land.

ERIK PINKERTON: Yeah. There are a few different communities in this area, we're all sort of within an hour's drive of Whitehorse, but the whole area when I went and covered a whole loop of it, it was three or four communities. I'm not sure how many of them are officially towns and hamlets and how many of them aren't. But I drove 200 kilometres on that day to photograph eight people.

PC: And what's their reaction when you pull up, you know, and call them, say, come on out? How have they been reacting to your project?

ERIK PINKERTON: All smiles, everyone's happy to see me, everyone's happy to chat and talk about what's going on. Ever. I'm super excited to have their picture taken. Everyone just wants to be part of whatever this is that we're doing.

PC: Susan, you do family shoots and weddings normally. So like happy occasions. What how is this whole experience? Families in isolation, being physically distant from people, they want to be seen going about their normal lives. What strikes you is as different be- beyond the obvious.

SUSAN GAUDET: What's really funny about that question is that this has become kind of the most impactful experience of my career, because what I've noticed is that after doing hundreds of family shoots, these family experiences were so different because they were just so happy to have that moment together. And in all of this is, all this craziness going on, but it really showed that. Just that moment to having that moment on the steps was all they needed to bring some joy. And typically family shoots without stress. You as a parent, the wardrobe stresses the experience and the kids not paying attention and stuff like that. But every time I was at a house, it was all smiles. Kids were giggling. They were loving the experience. They were paying attention. And yes, it was just, it was just a really different and joyful experience.

PC: And how many of these porch portraits have you done over the last number of weeks?

SUSAN GAUDET: I got out of it three full days and I shot about 53 families, I think in total.

PC: And many others you had lined up. Yes?

SUSAN GAUDET: Yeah. What I was doing is I was kind of compiling a list of everybody that wanted part and I would pin them their addresses here in my Google. And so my Google's kind of full of pins. Now, I think I have about 70 to 80 families left. I kind of kept them there just to kind of in hopes that once things kind of die down and maybe we have a little bit less restrictions on that, maybe I would have another opportunity to get out.

PC: So let's talk about those restrictions, because that PR, Department of Health and Wellness has reached out to you and asked you to stop taking these porch portraits. Why did they do that and how is that left you feeling?

SUSAN GAUDET: Well, unfortunately, with the project, there was, I would say 95 percent of the community was over the moon excited about it and wanted to take photos. But unfortunately, there was some people that did not see it as one necessary or something I should be doing. Some people did see it as risky. So there was some complaints made and after a couple days of some complaints coming in, it became a little bit too much for them to take on and rightfully so, there's a lot more important things to kind of handle right now. So they just called me and they just said, you know, right now we love the project. It's amazing. We love what you're doing for the community. But we have to kind of, you know, pump the brakes on it to kind of hold off of doing it going forward just until things change. And I totally understand and respect where they are coming from with a decision. It. It left me a little sad. I'm totally honest. I had the opportunity of capturing things like newborn photos or maternity photos and stuff that they may not be able to capture right now. And I knew that those other families that were in that kind of situation going forward, the families on list. So I was really sad knowing that those families aren't going to get the experience. And a lot of them did reach out after we got stopped. All right. That stopped. And so that was a little bit hard to handle. But I mean, this whole situation is so new for everybody. So we just kind of have to go, I guess, go with the punches every day.

PC: They've told you. But you're doing nonessential work and therefore you can't be doing it. Only essential work.

SUSAN GAUDET: Exactly.

PC: And Erik Pinkerton, just yesterday, the professional photographers of Canada put up a statement on their Facebook page recommending that these types of sessions stop for that exact reason, that it's nonessential work and it's risky. How do you feel about that?

ERIK PINKERTON: I've been going back and forth. I spent the evening yesterday speaking with some colleagues about it who are doing the same type of thing, asking how they feel about it. And in the end, we're all not really sure what to do. We've been feeling a lot of coming from the South. A lot of people in the photography community. I've been noticing a lot of sort of anger towards photographers who are still working, saying that this is nonessential. We don't need to be doing anything. We should be staying home. On the other hand, at least up here, what I can say is that we're all following, strictly following, the government regulations. And what people don't seem to know either is that it's a completely different situation where we are currently. So we currently have zero community transmission of the virus. We had a press release yesterday or the day before from the government telling us that this weekend we should still go out and enjoy playgrounds and enjoy being out in the sun and see family at a safe distance. Social distancing is right now on top. And so what we're currently being told is as long as you stay back and keep a good distance, then that's okay. And at least with my work specifically, I can't speak for my colleagues who are in the city doing this, but I'm in completely rural areas, so I'm going from driveway to driveway.

PC: So you're going to continue to do your work.

ERIK PINKERTON: Well, one thing that the PPOC mentioned was that they're concerned about people accidentally getting close, blocking sidewalks, getting sort of accidental contact. That doesn't really happen where I am because there are no people. That being said, the community of Car Cross and Taiga's, which are small communities to the south of me here, those are the communities that I drove through for the first time. I did a big loop. They've asked for visitors to stop coming. Yes. I do, however, have people in those communities still asking me. So my plan was next week after the holiday to contact the local First Nations and ask them how they feel about this.

PC: Okay. We're going to have to leave it there. I'm sorry to cut you off, but Erik Pinkerton's Susan Gaudet, thank you for joining me. I appreciate it.

SUSAN GAUDET: Thank you so much for having me.

PC: Susan Gaudet owns Anita Marae Photography in Charlottetown, P.E.I. and Erik Pinkerton owns Erik Pinkerton Photography based in Marsh Lake Yukon.

[Music].

PC: This is The Current. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay. We got a lot of feedback on Matt Galloway conversation this week about baking bread. It seems like many of you are making bread in quarantine and ingredients. Things like yeast are in very high demand. After airing that story, get a lovely suggestion to play another bread story from kindergarten.

SOUNDCLIP

Hi. It's Ginni Burton. Working from home. And I've heard so much about sourdough bread on CBC in the last few days and it makes me think of it Stuart McLean and Vinyl Cafe. And when Dave has to look after the low beer sourdough starter. So I don't know if anybody else is feeling wistful for Stuart McLean as I am these days. But I would love to hear that episode again.

PC: Good idea. Ginni and we can make that happen. So from the Vinyl Cafe archives, here is the late Stuart McLean with a story from 1995 recorded at the Yukon Arts Centre in Whitehorse.

[sc].

So while we call sour dough. It starts well, it starts tonight, number of years ago now, night that Dave's neighbour, Carl Lobeor call and asked if Dave could do him a favour. Carl and his wife Gerda lived down the street. And they were going to Florida for a month. Want to know if Dave could look after their sour dough starter while they were gone. Needs to be fed, said Carl, Tablespoon of wheat flour, once a week. It'll only take you a minute or two, no more. If anyone else in the neighbourhood phoned with a request like that, Dave would assume they were joking. But David known Carl Lobeor long enough to know that he didn't joke about his soured on. They first heard about Carl's sourdough starter at Paula Anderson's annual Christmas party. Carl had brought a loaf of his bread to the party and Dave, who had missed lunch and breakfast, was stuffing it and everything else he could lay his hands on down his throat. Carl materialized out of the crowd and said, I see you like my bread. And Dave stood there, nodding politely while Carl told him how he got the sourdough starter from his Aunt Ola in Germany, and how she had got the starter from her mother. Carl's great, aunt. It had been in the family for over 32 years. My mother used to said Carl.'Mff', said Dave. And it was [unintelligible] to be truthful, Dave had been thinking of the bread more as a utensil, a delivery device for the great mounds of smoked salmon he was pushing into his mouth. Until Carl mentioned the bread, Dave hadn't really noticed it. I have a genealogy, said Carl. I could show you if you come over. You have a genealogy, said Dave, swallowing a mouthful of salmon. Of the starter, said Carl, well, like a family tree. I have it in a frame in the den. Really, mumbled Dave, reaching for the eggplant dip with another piece of the bread. So when Carl and Gerda appeared at his house the very next Christmas with a loaf of bread. Dave realised Carl had misinterpreted his hunger for enthusiasm. David Morley hardly knew the Lobeors back then. Like I said, this was more than a decade ago, so there was a moment of awkwardness when Dave opened the door and saw him standing there. But soon enough, Carl and Gerda were in the kitchen slicing the bread so Morley could try it. Hmm, said morally, her mouth full, staring at Dave as if to say, Why is this happening? Dave shrugged. And then the low beers laughed. They left as abruptly as they had come. Declining to eat anything themselves. Well, that was weird, said Morley, after they had gone, cutting herself and other piece of the brand. Dave said it's better with smoked salmon. The night before he left for Florida, Carl phoned Dave with instructions. Usually, said Carl, we take it with us. You take the starters, said Dave, on vacation? We took it to Germany last March, said Carl. Gerda carried in her suitcase. She was going to take it in her purse, but she didn't want it to go through the X-ray machine. She was afraid the x rays might harm the enzymes. Last summer we took it to the cottage, but it didn't do so well. We had to feed it commercial flour, and when we brought it back, it was pale and out-of-sorts. You took it to the cottage? Said Dave. It's done three interprovincial trips and two international ones, said Carl, plus a change of planes in Holland. Carl explained why he didn't want to take the starter to Florida. What if there's a tornado? He said. One if the power fails. I don't want to be worrying all the time. It supposed to be a vacation. Then he told Dave what he wanted him to do. The starter is in the fridge, said Carl. It's in a Mason jar? There's a a bag of wheat flour on the counter beside the fridge. Once a week, you put a tablespoon of the flour into the mason jar. No problems, said Dave. After supper, Dave said, what is starter anyway? Morley looked at her husband and shook her head. Of all the people in the neighbourhood, she said, Why did he choose you? Dave didn't press the point. Next day, he went for lunch to his pal Kenny Wong cafe Wong Scottish Meat Pies. Kenny said making sourdough bread is kind of like making yoghurt. It needs something to get it going. When you're making sour dough, you use fermented dough from your last batch of bread. And that's the starter in the pioneer days when you couldn't run to the corner store for a pack of yeast. Sharing a starter was a true act of friendship. You should be honoured. He didn't give it to me, said Dave. Just asked me to look after it. Still, said Kenny. If you don't feed it, it'll, well, you know. No, said Dave. What? It's a living thing, said Kenny. I don't know. If you don't feed it, who knows? It will die or something. Dave's first visit to Carl's house was that Friday. He let himself enter the house, and he found the mason jar of starter in the fridge. Pried the jar open and peered in. Starter looked just like moist oatmeal, pleasing sour aroma of fermenting yeast wafted up out of the jar and made Dave smile. Looked around for the bag of flour. The kitchen was full of ceramic knickknacks. The walls were covered with framed sayings, scrolls, tea towels from Germany and Arizona. On the counter. There was a set of ceramic containers shaped like dogs. They were lined up in descending order of size. Each dog with a little name tag around its neck. Sugar. Cookies. Tea. Coffee. Carl and Gerda's Kitchen had the feel of a roadside souvenir shop. The flower wasn't on the counter where Carl had promised, but there was a brown paper bag by the telephone and it was full of white powder. Dave picked it up and dumped a spoonful into the starter and put the starter back in the fridge. Then he spent half an hour snooping around the Lobeor's house. Next Friday, one day went to feed the starter, he thought maybe it didn't smell quite the same as it did the week before, but it was hard to tell. He didn't want to touch it with his fingers. So he got a fork and poked at it and decided it was just his imagination. Put another spoonful of the flour into the jar like before, and he went into the den to look at Carl's books. The third Friday, he went directly to Carl's on his way home from work. He was he was feeling good. He was feeling happy because on Saturday he was leaving with Morley and the kids to go to Montreal. They were going to the ranch and mountains for long weekend ski trip. He's going to feed the starter who's going to go home and pack. So he went in, he fished the jar out of the fridge and he gasped when he opened it. He ran to the phone. Morley answered on the third ring. The starter, said Dave, the starter. Morley said, who is this? It's me, said Dave. I'm at Carl's sums wrong with the starter. Something was wrong with the starter. Instead of a bowl of moist oatmeal, it looked hard and dry and white, said Dave. It's all dried up. I think it's dead. Morally said, you sound like you're reporting a murder. I am, said, Dave, and then he said it smells. Morley said it's supposed to smell. Not like this, said Dave. When Moreley arrived, it took her less than a minute to figure out what had gone wrong. This is what you've been feeding it? She said, holding up the brown paper bag David found by the phone. Yes, said Dave. Morley was pointing to the handwriting on the paper bag, Gerda's neat handwriting. Pollyfilla, said Morley. The Lobeors were due home on Sunday evening. What am I going to do? Said Dave. I don't know, said Morley, heading home to finish her packing, but it's bound to be interesting. He called Kenny, Kenny Wong. I think I have a recipe for sour dough starters, said Kenny. I'll come over. When Kenny arrived at Carl's house, he was carrying a book, carton of buttermilk, a bottle of scotch and a hairdryer. We got to get going. He said, I found a recipe, it takes three days to makes our toast arc. We've only got two, said Dave. That's what the hairdryers for said Kenny. Kenny was rubbing his hands. Kenny said first things first. He started opening cupboards until he found the glasses and he poured 'em each a big tumbler of scotch, and he propped his cookbook open on the kitchen counter. Book was called Cooking Wizardry for Children. Learn about food while making tasty things to Eat. Kenny smiled and held up his scotch. I get all my best recipes from this book, he said. You can't be serious, said Dave. By 3:00 in the morning, Dave and Kenny were anything but serious. They were still at step one of the recipe, waiting for a cup of buttermilk to warm and collect bacteria from the kitchen air as the recipe called for in the natural old fashioned way. Kenny had the hairdryer set to blow over the buttermilk. It's kind of like forcing a tool up, said Kenny. Bottle of Scotch was half killed. Dave had discovered the Lobeors poker records and Kenny was wearing one Gerta Lobeor's, aprons and dancing with them up. They finished at 10:00 on Sunday morning. Kenny had slept on the Lobeor's bed. Dave on the living room couch. When they left, the sour dough was bubbling like a pot of oatmeal. They look sort of the same. But it smells right. But it wasn't bubbling like that, said Dave. That'll slow down in the fridge, said Kenny. And there's more than they used to be. It was only maybe half that much, said Dave. Well, Kenny picked up the Mason jar, and he scooped half of the sour dough into the garbage. How's that? He said. That look about right? The Lobeors arrived home on Sunday as planned. Dave flew to Montreal before they got home, and he joined his family at the ranchons. When he got home from Quebec on Tuesday night, there was a loaf of bread and a note from Carl on the back porch. You certainly looked after the starter. Thanks for everything. He knows, said Dave. That's just Carl, said Marley. Dave wasn't so sure. Dave gave Carl a wide berth for the next few months. Later to rub shoulders again until the first neighbourhood barbecue on the long weekend in May. Dave was at the condiment table looking at the buns when Jim Schoefield leaned against him and whispered conspiratorially. Aren't you going to have one of Carl's sourdough buns? What you mean? Said Dave. Did everyone know? Jim rolled his eyes. Carl just gave me his bread lecture. You know, he has a frame genealogy in his den. Those things aren't always entirely accurate, said Dave. And he felt a wave of relief wash over. Did he tell you about his aunt in Germany? He asked. Jim nodded. Dave smiled. He can be a bit much, he said. But I like his bread. And Dave picked out one of Carl's buns from the bowl on the picnic table, and he wandered over to the grill, got himself a hamburger, and then he looked around the yard. There was Carl standing there near the fence all alone. Dave waved his bun in the air and headed over.

[Applause]

PC: You have been listening to sour dough from the Vinyl Cafe archives with the late Stewart McLean. And we will have you another story of Stewart's on Monday that once called The Tree of Heavens. We'll be airing that on Monday. Coming up on this extended edition of The Current. The soft, bluesy vocals of the wonderful Norah Jones and the Dry Wit, a screenwriter, Alan Yang, Tom Powers interviews with each of them is coming up. And I'll be saying how to tell myself. That's all coming up when we return.

Alan Yang, Norah Jones, John Allen

Guests: Alan Yang, Norah Jones

PC: Hi again, I'm Piya Chattopadhyay in for Matt Galloway and you're listening to The Current.

[Music: Theme].

PC: Still to come. Honouring holy month in isolation, faith leaders share what they're doing to support their congregations. That's in half an hour. But first, a certain CBC host is on the line and dare I say, one of my faves.

[Music: Theme]

PC: If you had trouble guessing who that is, it is Tom Power, the host of Q. He's on the line. Happy Fish Friday, Tom.

TOM POWER: I was just had my fingers crossed you were still talking about me. I said, Oh, God, who is it? Am I? Am I- did I get bumped?

PC: You did not. I say happy fish Friday because so many people today are abstaining from meat, eating fish. But I spoke with someone from your hometown of St. John's about fish and chips, because this is a big tradition in your part of the world where you hail from.

TP: Well, it's a big tradition kind of everywhere within the sort of Irish Catholic diaspora, but especially within Newfoundland, because we have such a great abundance of wonderful fish and chip shops. It's become a bit of a tradition on Good Friday to get fish and chips. And you know what? Even though I'm in downtown Toronto, I think I'm going to see if I can order some in.

PC: Okay. If we do not take fish and chips. Tell us what we should be doing if we want to decompress this weekend.

TP: Well, I'd say you get some fish. You get some chips and you watch some television. Do you know that show Parks and Recreation or that Master of None show?

PC: I do.

TP: So Alan Yang is one of the people behind both those shows who the silent partner to all those shows, written some of the best television of the last decade. Parks and Recreation was hilarious show sort of about the government. He somehow made that hilarious. He made this intensely personal parents episode of Master in Non-people, won Emmys for that. I spoke with Alan Yang about another kind of story he's telling here, his father's immigration story, where the stakes are pretty high when you're telling the story about your own father. It's called Tiger Tale. It's coming out on Netflix tomorrow. I think it's good to watch. Here's our conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

TP: How's it going in L.A. right now?

ALAN YANG: You know, I can't complain. I think New York has been kind of the epicentre so far. And I feel lucky enough to be able to do some of my job from home. And I'm trying to get outside the you know, the weather's nice here at least, and you can walk around in your neighbourhood. So that's nice. Yeah. I just I just feel concern for people who, you know, are having friends and family and and people close to them be affected by the disease. So I personally feel okay. And my family's safe right now. But, man, it's scary. It's it seems like it's going to get a little worse before it gets better. But hopefully it goes away soon.

TP: I want to talk about this film, first off. There was a tweet that really struck me that you made recently, this film, Tiger Tale, which you can kind of see in the background of your house there. You dedicated it to especially to Asian-Americans who are facing an unprecedented time in our history. Can you tell me more about that?

ALAN YANG: Absolutely, and I guess I should have said unprecedented. It's been a while since we've seen this level of racism. I think that's what I meant by that, because obviously you go back to the 40s, 50s, etc.. It didn't, you know, Japanese internment, we saw some pretty overt actions by the government. But it's just been sadly kind of surprising to me. And maybe I've been naive. And maybe I thought that we've made a lot of progress when in fact that racism had always been latent and been kind of waiting to rear its ugly head. So, yes, this COVID stuff, the corona stuff, as has really brought out an ugly side of anti-Asian sentiment in this country. And it's been frankly disappointing. As I said, you think you've made strides. You think that what we saw, the attitudes we've seen in the past in this country have subsided. But, you know, it's people I know it's not just, you know, stories on the news. The star of this film [unintelligible] was accosted in a parking lot and someone spat at him and told them to go back into quarantine. And it's like that's down the street from us in Pasadena. That's not you know, we're not even talking about, you know, part of the country that you wouldn't expect that to happen. And it's it's just, it's just disappointing and surprising. And maybe I was naive. But, you know, we've just got to get awareness out there. We've got to make sure that people understand that the disease doesn't discriminate. The disease affects all of us. The disease is raging rampant in Europe. It's raging all over this country. It's not an Asian disease. It affects all human beings. And we need to react respond in that in that way.

TP: What a beautiful sav, like what a beautiful gift your film was last night when I watched it to be able to just take an hour and a half and kind of be a part of someone's story and in some ways be away from my own. Like, it was such a gift. Can you tell me tell me more about it, because I know it's in some ways the story of your father, but I don't want to, I don't want to trivialize it here. But it is in some ways a story of your father leaving Taiwan and coming to the U.S. Right?

ALAN YANG: Yes, absolutely. It's inspired by that story. And I want to stress that it's very loosely inspired. It's not a documentary. It's not a one to one. There are characters who are created. There's you know that the story is a movie. The stories is cinematic and has some scope to it and has a beauty all its own separate from that story. But, you know, emotionally, I was very moved by my father's own story and learning more about him and finding out more about his past. And that was tied into my own personal experience, which is that as a child, I was not in touch with my heritage. I kind of rejected it because I wanted to fit it. I didn't grow up around a lot of Asian people. I wanted to make friends as a kid. I think it's very natural to want to fit in. So I refused to go to Chinese school. I didn't learn Mandarin. I didn't want to eat Chinese food. I didn't want to do any of that stuff. I wanted to be American. And I think that's very natural. But as I got older and I matured and became adults, you want to find out more about where you came from and your parents and their lives. And so that was all tied in part and parcel with going back to Taiwan with my dad, which I did a few years ago with the first time I did back since I was seven years old to give an example of how bad an Asian person was. It was 20 some odd years before I went back and I learned a lot, you know, and he opened up to me. And it's alluded to in the film a little bit how in the Taiwanese culture it's not always encouraged to share and share your emotions and tell your story and be really forthcoming. So it took something like that trip for me to get a little bit more information from my dad. And that started sowing the seeds of this story.

TP: Has your father seen it?

ALAN YANG: So I think I sent him the link just, literally just now, we were going to do a screening at Netflix for my family because I wanted people to see it on the big screen. This was kind of a pre corona plan. And so now I just suddenly got out. I just had to let out. My mum has seen it. She just texted me that she loved the movie. And so I'm waiting on my dad's response, but honestly, probably be today. So I'll let you know.

TP: Is there like a relief? Is there? Is there a stress while you wait to hear what he thinks?

ALAN YANG: Yes, for sure. Because, you know, it's important to me and you know, again, I stress to him that, but it's a love letter to him. And, you know, obviously it's a warts and all portrayal in some ways. Like I you know, you want to show the flaws in these characters and you watch their growth. So it can't be a biography. But it's really a, it's really a love letter, not just to him, but to Taiwan, a country I still don't know that well, but I've gotten to know a lot better in the past few years. And I started from nothing. So it's better than nothing. I'm learning a little bit of Mandarin. I can text my parents a little bit of Chinese now, but it's the beginning of a long path for me, I think.

TP: I want to play a clip. And this is not it's not like a clip from the film, but it's a clip of something in the film that we found really meaningful. I think this is going to work. Take a listen. Call.

SOUNDCLIP

[Song]

TP: I love this piece of music so much. What are we listening to right now? And how did you find it?

ALAN YANG: It's an extremely important piece of music for me and for the movie. You know, music is really important to me because, you know, I grew up playing a bunch of different instruments and I played in a punk rock band. And that was really a seminal part of my life growing up. So I knew I had to find the perfect piece of music. That's the song that plays When Young [unintelligible], Who is dancing with [unintelligible]. And it kind of is emblematic of their passion, their love, their vitality. When they're when they're young. And so I wanted to find a piece of music that was a mix of East and west. So it emphasized that he had a dream to go to America, that he loved Western pop culture and at the same time had this sort of female singers singing Mandarin over it. So you have this rock song, you have said it is more guitars. And so what I found was I just did an Internet deep dive and looked for music from this period in Taiwan, 60s, 70s, that kind of style. And so this artist is named Yasu Yang or Yasu Wong. It's sometimes Anglicized as and it's her in this band called the Telstar Combo. And so it's not on Spotify, it's not on Apple music. It's not in any of those services. It's very deep in YouTube. And I saw what the name of the record was. I saw the album cover. And so I went on eBay and I bought a used copy of it and got it. So I had the physical copy so I could find the publisher's information, get it to my publishing people and buy the rights. And so that meet that song to me was so important. I put a link to it in the script so that when people read the script, they could play the song as they read the scene and it's in the trailer. You know, it's the beginning of the trailer. It's basically a perfect encapsulation of the period of his life when he's in Taiwan and he has dreams of going to America. And he'll always remember that song as sort of who he used to be. And when he felt the most alive.

TP: I love it. We're going to put a link to it up on our Twitter at CBC Radio Q. What does it mean for this film to come out now?

ALAN YANG: It's really meaningful and it's really surprising because, you know, when we had this release date, no one thought that we'd be in a national lockdown. No one thought that all movie theatres will close. We had a theatrical release plan. You know, you're going to be in theatre in New York, L.A. and Cisco. And, you know, we were going to have a premiere. And instead it's you know, even when we're talking about my family, I would have loved to have seen it with my family. But instead, it's everyone watching alone in their own homes. And I will say the movie does feature characters who feel alone and who feel isolated and who don't know how to reach out to the people they love. And so if there's a message that people can take away. I think one of them is it's never too late to connect to the people you love. It's never too late to tell people you care about that you love them and that they mean a lot to you. And I think that's really relevant in these times, because I think people are feeling isolated. I think people are feeling lonely. And it's a real time. I know you can't be in a room with your family, but you can watch this movie separately and talk to them about it afterwards. And I think it really has a universal theme that's unfortunately especially relevant right now.

PC: I am Piya Chattopadhyay and that is Tom Powers conversation of a screenwriter and director, Alan Yang.

[Music]

PC: You know, Tom Power last week when I walked into my kitchen. Husband Peter had this playing Norah Jones come away with me and get a lovely conversation in a quiet moment about where we were when back in 2002. What a lovely, lovely album and a lovely voice.

TP: What a what a stress reliever, you can say.

PC: Yes, she's great. She is great. Her speaking voice, lovely.

TP: Just as smooth beer. Just as smooth as her singing voice.

PC: You talked to her recently.

TP: I know I did. I talked to her. It was a it was pretty unbelievable. I still get kind of I still get kind of freaked out whenever I get to talk to her. I don't know why, Piya.

PC: Because you're weeping, like I am right now.

TP: I get it. I don't know why.

PC: I didn't get it. Got it now. You said get it get it.

TP: Just like we're there together in person. Because I've COVID19, Norah Jones has had to cancel our tour dates, delay the release of our new record, Pick me up off the Floor. Like a lot of artists, he's been finding ways to give back online, including regular performances from her apartment on Instagram. But I tell you, Piya, when I talk to her, she just sounded like all of us trying to figure out how to navigate life with her family at home. Take a listen to this.

SOUNDCLIP

TP: Norah Jones, hi.

NORAH JONES: Hi.

TP: What's it like in New York City right now? How are you holding up?

NORAH JONES: I'm good. It's weird, but, you know, my kids are keeping me busy. They're three and six. So really, every day is just sort of a, it's just a try to, try to wrangle them. It's like it's like a clown in a in a rodeo. You know, just trying to head them off at the pass. They're hungry like every hour. So I'm just trying to get them fed before they have meltdowns every hour. Basically.

TP: By the way, happy birthday.

NORAH JONES: Oh, thanks. I don't even care, I forgot my birthday. I appreciate it. Thank you. Itwas a nice distraction, I will say, for the kids.

TP: You had a birthday while self isolating. What's that like?

NORAH JONES: Who cares? Right. Well. The one funny thing about my birthday was it was self isolating with one of my best friends. We've been together for like three weeks now, which has been great, actually. It's been really lucky to be together. But she found three rolls of toilet paper and she put a couple of candles in the tap and she made a little toilet paper tower birthday cake, which I thought was very creative ever.

TP: That's quite a valuable birthday cake at this time.

NORAH JONES: Yes, I took it, I took it immediately and I hid it under my bed and I kept it for myself. You know, what's a birthday right now. It doesn't mean much, but it was it was fun with the kids.

TP: I bet it was. And I know you had plans for your dad at the late Ravi Shankar. You had plans for the his the 100th birthday of its centennial. I know you had to give those up. You guys had some big plans for that, right?

NORAH JONES: Yeah, we were going do these shows, which was going be really interesting for me because I you know, I'd never played any of his music. I don't really know a lot about Indian classical music, but I was going to learn some stuff and get to play with these great Indian musicians, including my half sister, which would have been fun. But and, you know, everything's cancelled sort of on hold now.

TP: But you were able to do it on Instagram, that's pretty good.

NORAH JONES: It was cool. I did end up choosing one of his Western songs, which is definitely easier for me, but it was nice.

TP: What's the most gratifying thing about doing any of these performances on Instagram?

NORAH JONES: Well, it definitely feels like you're connecting with people at a time when you're not really allowed to. So it's nice. It's you know, I don't really have a big relationship with social media in general. I'm just not very good at it. I overthink it. So I'd rather just not do it basically. But it is a great tool to stay connected with your fans and for people to stay connected with people they're interested in musically. So even though I'm not posting a lot of stuff and I don't have a lot of everyday posts in real life in isolation. However, it's been nice to stay connected, but you're raising money to rain. Yes, I try to find a good link. There's a lot of people out there doing such great things, you know, and and raising money for the right places that need it. And I think we all feel a little helpless right now. At least those of us who don't exactly know how to help. So I think it always helps to find a place that, you know, even if you just have a dollar or two to donate, you know, it all adds up. And I feel super fortunate to be able to, you know, look for those places and donate what I can. And if you don't have you know, a lot of people are hurting right now, so they don't have anything to give. But it's just nice to connect with them and that they know who's out there doing it. I don't know. I think it's a good thing.

TP: I just want to point out that when you said that you were doing okay at home and trying to keep the kids from going crazy, one of our producers wrote on a little prompter in front of me, she has a three year old at home. She said, I so relate to her right now.

NORAH JONES: Exactly. You know, my husband and I are both musicians and we both want to have a little bit of time to ourselves, which is impossible right now. We're trying to trade off and it's great. It's great for, like, you know, 20 minutes. But it's good. I mean, I feel lucky that we're all healthy and we're all here together. So it could be you know, a lot of people are going through this in a very different way. People are sick and it's scary.

TP: Yes, it's definitely scary. You know, I know I've been face time with the friends in New York. Probably not that far from where you are. I don't really know where you are, but I'm guessing not that far. And while I'm talking to them, I just hear sirens going by all the time.

NORAH JONES: Yes, a lot of sirens and. You know, it's just, it's just a very surreal time for all of us. And so, yeah, the social media thing. It's just nice to know that we're all we're all feeling it together.

TP: You're also putting out new music in the middle of all this. Take a listen to this.

SOUNDCLIP

[Music]

TP: That is Norah Jones, Jeff Tweedy from [unintelligible], joining her on that on the song. I'm Alive. The first single from her upcoming album, Pick Me Up Off the Floor out on June 12th. So I'm wondering what was on your mind when you first wrote that and maybe how has the song changed for you in the midst of this pandemic?

NORAH JONES: Well, it's strange because that album I mean, a few songs on this new album are very much sort of inspired by seeing what we're all going through in society politically, globally. I mean, we're all kind of going through it even before this pandemic hit. And those songs feel even more extreme now at some of the songs on the record. I don't even know where they came from specifically, but they sort of related to my own personal life or things that are going on in the news. And now they're just completely about what we're all going through. It's funny how music, the meaning of lyrics and music can change in whatever situation you're in and including personally, like different people relate to songs differently. But a lot of these songs on this album definitely feel very right now, even though they were written before the virus came.

TP: It's funny, I think Jeff had a song like that right when he wrote Jesus, etc. It came out during 9/11, but he had written two years before I became the sort of 9/11 anthem. Like, it's funny how that song kind of hit a moment?

NORAH JONES: That's right. Yes, you're right. I forgot about that. Yes, that's true. I agree it's very strange when it happens. But, you know, I mean, I was listening to some John Prine songs this week and, you know, he passed and it's been so sad. And listening to some of those lyrics, though, feel very right now. And, you know, he wrote these songs 30, 40 years ago. So music really can transcend time in that way. It just hits your emotion and certain lyrics will hit you in a certain way and they magnify what's going on in your life right now.

TP: Yes, I know. I know. You're a big John Prine fan, too. I watched you cover That's the Way the World Goes Round one time and I think I saw you on a Prine benefit concert. How are you feeling about John's death and how are you remembering him?

NORAH JONES: It's really sad. And. I'm just listening to his music and it's beautiful. I saw him just a few months ago and he was super sweet and kind of, you know, it's just very sad.

TP: Yes, it's heartbreaking. He was. He was maybe my favourite. You know.

NORAH JONES: Yes, I mean, he was definitely one of the greats. Very unique as well. You know, he had his own slant on things, which was super. It was just brilliant.

TP: Norah, what what are you looking forward to doing first when you get out?

NORAH JONES: Oh, my gosh. Probably. I would love to eat in a restaurant, not do the dishes. That would be awesome. I would love to play music with other people. You know, this will be fun to play with a drummer, especially feel a little bit of a groove going by music with Puss in Boots again. Yes. You know, normal stuff.

TP: Norah, thanks so much for talking to me and I hope that day comes soon.

NORAH JONES: Thanks. Me, too. Good luck.

PC: That singer songwriter Norah Jones in conversation with Tom Power, the host of Q. Before we go, we have one more interview. Tom spoke with John Allen. John's a Canadian industrial designer and prosthetic designer for film and TV. He has worked on suicide squad, Star Trek and Total Recall. He was recently laid off from his job on a CBS pilot due to COVID-19. So he started making 3D printed face shields instead. Here's his conversation with Tom Power.

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TP: John Allen, thanks a lot for joining us. How are you?

JOHN ALLEN: Hey, I'm great, thanks.

TP: So where did the idea come to start making these face shields?

JOHN ALLEN: Well, I got a call from a friend of mine who she works at the. She's a manager of a local clinic. And she just texted me a really sketchy image of a 3D printed mask. And she said, can you print these? And I kind of thought, well, yeah. But I went, why? And so I just kind of left it at that. I didn't really think much more about it. And then I started thinking about and it sort of dawned on me that are they wanting people to print these? And then I just had to turn on the TV and realise that. Yes, that's what people are doing. We have a whole bunch of 3-D printing heroes out there trying to answer this cause. And it just it got my wheels turning and I decided thinking I thought, really, we're going to try and do that with that. That's such a it's such a tough go. 'Cause I'm I use 3-D printing all the time for my work, but it takes, you know, it takes an hour or two to print, you know, most things. And I just, you know, thought there has to be a faster way. And of course, I know there are faster ways. So that's why I ended up calling my friend Peter Cole Pitts, who I've worked with in the past. He and I have done a number of props and things like that for all kinds of TV shows and features and things of that nature. And I just said to him, I said, look, you guys are talking about 3-D. They're asking people to 3D print all this stuff. It's like, don't you think we should just make a mould and we can just injection all these? And he was totally onboard the key. Like right off the bat, we were thinking exactly the same thing. And so our idea consists of two parts. It's got a piece of film. This is common with everybody's mask. It has a substrate of some kind that will go across the front. The other part, this is the part that we spent the time designing and it's a injection, multiple frame. It's injection, all that ABS So it's strong. And we believe it's recyclable. It's reusable as well. I'd say we believe it can be cleaned and sterilized, then used again effectively. It's not like a welder's mask. It's not for, you know, a surface grinder. It's only a thin film. This is like point one of a millimetre thick. So it really it's not designed to stop any flying objects, but it is designed to protect the wearer from harmful things that, you know, sneezes and coughs, that sort of thing.

TP: So like a hospital worker would be wearing this mask in the hospital.

JOHN ALLEN: Sure. And you know what? These days, it could be anybody. I mean, we go to the grocery store and we see people there and they're behind shields. But what's protecting the people that are stocking the shelves and things like that? So, you know, I'm thinking about the hospital workers, but I'm really thinking about everybody with this.

TP: I think what's really amazing to me about this is that, you know, we've been talking to how people in the arts like yourself, people who are involved in film and television and music production, you know, are able to help in a lot of ways. Like in some ways, they're able to entertain people. In some ways, they're able to keep people's minds off things. And what I really love about this is that there's also room for creative people to find to take their expertise and use towards actual solutions to problems we're facing right now because of the pandemic. I think it's pretty amazing that you're doing this.

JOHN ALLEN: Well, thank you, and you know, before I started this, one of my thoughts was exactly what you're talking about. I enjoyed my first week of being off work. And I thought, wow, this is going to be all kinds of time. I have a bathroom renovation. I got to finish. I have I have all kinds of art. I feel like I need to do. I want to draw. I want to paint. I want to do all these things. And then, you know, oddly enough, that this coming up, it just kind of refocused my mind and it, ask my wife, I became obsessed with the idea of doing something that I thought it could kind of help out.

TP: It sounds like it. I mean, it's pretty amazing stuff, John. Thank you so much for your work, man. And take care and stay safe.

JOHN ALLEN: Hey, well, thanks very much, I'm honoured to be here sharing this with your audience.

PC: It's Tom Power talking to Canadian prop designer John Allen. That's it for this extended edition of The Current. On this Good Friday, we will leave you with a surprise from the cast of Beautiful, the Carole King musical. So 80 actors from different productions of the musical got together online this week. Together, they sang the song. You've Got a Friend originally written and recorded by Carole King. So near the end. Carole King herself shows up wrapped in this blue scarf. It is utterly delightful. Donations from that performance go to the Actors Fund, which helps out arts workers in need. You can watch that video online, by the way. In the meantime, see if you can pick out Carole King from this sea of 80 voices. I'm Piya Chattopadhyay. Be well.

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[Song]

PC: I'm Piya Chattopadhyay, sitting in for Matt Galloway and this is an extended edition of The Current.

The Current Transcript for April 10, 2020

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

Faith leaders

Homecoming

This 107-year-old remembers the 1918 Spanish flu, and sees the similarities with COVID-19

COVID-19 won't stop Fish Friday as restaurant finds safe ways to keep tradition

Canadian heros

Porch portraits, Vynil Cafe

Alan Yang, Norah Jones, John Allen

Full Transcript for April 10, 2020

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