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The Current Transcript for June 20, 2019

Host: Anna Maria Tremonti

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

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Prologue

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

[Music]

It's Thursday June 20th. After 13,385 interviews on 2687 shows, after 39 reporting trips to eight provinces, three territories, seven U.S. states and nine countries, after interviewing two prime ministers, one U.S. president, three Nobel prise winners, seven astronauts and only getting hung up on once. We wish you well AMT. I'm not sure who'll miss you more, your colleagues or your listeners. Currently, if they're still looking for your replacement I know the guy. With a great voice: This is The Current.

[Cheers and applause]

ANNA MARIA TREMONTI: How could we gather here today without the voice. It was back in November of 2002 that his unmistakable sound signalled the start of our program. And I don't know if you remember, I used to give the email address to remind you that it was The Current e-n-t, like the stream not the raisins. Those were early days. I even talked faster than I do now. But this was new territory for me and our whole team. We wanted a show grounded in solid journalism. We wanted to take a step back or sideways or upside down to get you to think and think differently and to be a little provocative and poke some fun too. It all had to be responsive to what was happening in our world. I have been privileged to have hosted you through that labyrinth. And so as I host my final edition of the Current - here before an audience in the atrium at CBC Toronto - we're looking back two of our gifted producers Kathleen Goldhar and Joan Webber will join me for some behind the scenes inside dirt on getting this show to air, as well Stephen Lewis and Tanya Talaga two big thinkers who have been at the crossroads of major issues. We'll share their insights on what we faced on what we will confront going forward as well. The CBC's Carol Off goes into as it happens mode early to interview me. That's in one hour. But we're starting with a man whose own work following the issues of the day made you laugh and even when you wanted to cry. Rick Mercer will be here in just a moment as well. I am Anna Maria Tremonti. We are before a live audience at the CBC in Toronto. This is a special edition and my last edition of The Current.

[Music]

AMT: Well my last show at The Current. My last wakeup call it for 30, I actually got up at 4:00 today. My final 'This is The Current' signoff. And you know this is my choice and I'm moving on to more challenges with new podcasts. It's still a tough day because of what I'm leaving behind and who I'm leaving behind. And Rick Mercer knows a thing or two about saying goodbye. Rick.

RICK MERCER: Come on up.

AMT: You know him. He is a comedian and a satirist and last year he ended a 15 year run with CBC Television's Rick Mercer Report. The show took him to the furthest corners of the country. It had him speaking to Canadians from all walks of life. Hi.

RICK MERCER: Hello it's great to be here.

AMT: It's good to have you with us.

RICK MERCER: You're making a terrible mistake.

AMT: You know what I want to know now that there's no Rick Mercer Report. What do you do when you know you feel like going for a stroll at the very top on the outside of the CN Tower or you just want to put on your jammies and hang out and have a sleepover at Stephen Harper's house. What do you do?

RICK MERCER: There's lots of things I miss about having the show but dangling off the CN Tower, jumping out of a helicopter, any of those things. I never miss those things. I obviously miss you know when- I obviously I follow current affairs and politics and sometimes I really want to rant. I want to say something. And I don't have that outlet anymore. So I miss that very much. But at the same time I've enjoyed the break.

AMT: You know I don't think any of us can drive down an alley. I was driving down an alley the other day with graffiti all over it. I'm going, okay, is this the alley? I think of you. I look at graffiti in an alley and I go, Rick Mercer. He should be walking down here.

RICK MERCER: Maybe that's what I do now. I saw him. He's in an alley talking to an iPhone. That's what he does.

AMT: You know you and I may different career choices. I try to hold politicians to account. You hold a mirror up to them right. You know I'm kind of wondering what made you choose that route instead of say journalism.

RICK MERCER: That's why no one's ever asked me that question because I've always felt like journalism was something that I pretended to do. I never ever considered it. I only ever loved comedy. I had two loves. I loved comedy and I loved politics and I feel like I'm very fortunate that I managed to meld the two. And I'm very fortunate that I live in a country where people have always like political satire and a country where there's a network that likes political satire. So I was very fortunate but I never ever considered journalism. And occasionally if I get asked to interview someone on stage I'm always shocked. Like you want me to interview them? Why would you want me to interview them? But I guess the similarities is all about talking to people and getting the answers and listening to people and I feel like I've done that for most of my career which is exactly what you've done.

AMT: And you know you can also make fun of journalists with satire better than you can as a journalist.

RICK MERCER: I think so yes.

AMT: And we need that. So you know you're not with the Rick Mercer Report anymore but but you're up to lots of things. What are you up to?

RICK MERCER: Well this is the great thing about- I would never have complained about having a show because it was the greatest gift I could possibly ever have. But I think you will know it when you're on a show. There is nothing else. If someone wants to talk to you about another project, you cannot only not consider the other project. You can even have the cup of coffee to talk about the project. It's all encompassing. So when the show stops suddenly you can do other things. You know even something like this if someone had said 'Oh come say goodbye to Anna Maria Tremonti' I would have to say I would love to but I'm doing my show. I got to go out and you know work with my friend Jann Arden on her new sitcom. That's something I never would have been able to do before and try new things. So I'm going on a stand up tour in the fall which is entirely new. I'm going to go from St. John's to Vancouver. And that's something I never could have done before.

AMT: It's interesting. You were doig stand up before. You went right to- you were always with the team you were on.

RICK MERCER: Yes. I used to stand up and basically rant for an hour on stage. That was my one man show. So it wasn't really stand up comedy. There were it was more one man show. So this is something I'm really looking forward to.

AMT: What has surprised you the most since leaving Rick Mercer Report?

RICK MERCER: Are you worried about what your future holds. 'What surprised you the most?' What do I have to look forward to.

AMT: Do you not know that I'm neurotic? Do you not know this?

RICK MERCER: Are you a little nervous about what the future holds?

AMT: Always always.

RICK MERCER: Well no you're going to be fine.

AMT: You know what I want to talk to you more about political satire because we have seen you over the years making snow angels with Ed Broadbent. There was that famous little lake side thing with Bob Ray.

RICK MERCER: Bob Ray has accomplished so much. And God forbid when he passes that will be in his obituary that he got naked and jumped in a lake on national television.

AMT: It'll be in yours too just saying. There was also I remember John Putin in during the George Bush years. I think I was living in Washington then we howled. We howled. But you know there's a federal election around the corner. There's Donald Trump down so. Do you miss that?

RICK MERCER: I do miss it, although I'm also-- I tell you I miss it. I miss commentary a lot but I don't mind right now being out of the opinion business, just for the time being anyway, because I don't know if quite frankly I have the stomach for it the way I used to. Because these are such vitriolic times. People are so angry so divided and you know with the way social media is. People are just constantly attacking and you never-- I always hope that reasonable people could come together and agree on subjects and I see fewer and fewer reasonable voices both in media and both in politics. So. So it's not a very nice time to be in the opinion business. God love the people who are doing it but I'm happy to step away for the time being.

AMT: Is there any one issue though or anyone like threat of an issue where you like he just can't help but make a few notes or just say 'wow'?

RICK MERCER: Oh sure. I mean I haven't stopped ranting, if you come over to my house. I mean the paint is peeling and I live in a province right now that is governed by chaos. And so yes of course I'm ranting all the time although I'm glad that we finally have a government whose priority is getting us more alcohol. That seems to be-- Yes it's very interesting time.

AMT: It is an interesting time too because we've seen obviously the so-called fake news. Lots of disinformation. We've also, over a long time now, satire has taken on it almost a more prominent place than journalism for a lot of people. And there are there are things that you can get at with comedy and satire that journalists don't get at. And like when you listen and watch and read what should journalists be thinking about?

RICK MERCER: I think it's you know that the hurt. The hardest thing. Well this is why I believe networks are still very important because people like to have that conversation about whether they are important anymore, and whether news organizations serve the right, the same purpose that they used to. But we have to figure out a way to cut through the chatter. There's so much chatter now and there's so many people that are just talking to the choir. And you're right. I go on my Facebook feed and I see articles that on the surface looked like they're legitimate news articles and they are entirely not. And this is a brand new thing. And you know my mother says to me all the time 'Oh did you see on Facebook, it's the New York Times'. But it that could mean anything that could mean it's an article from The New York Times but it could also mean it's a completely fake news outfit. So that's very tough for journalists today but they have to blasted the chatter somehow.

AMT: And so what can we learn from the prism like if we look through the prism of comedy and satire, in terms of how we look at our journalism and how we should be shaping things, what can we learn?

RICK MERCER: I think you know good satirists are held to the same standard as good journalists. Ultimately at the end of the day they have to tell the truth. If they're not telling the truth and people get a whip that they're not telling the truth then they'll turn them off, or they'll realize they're just too far too biased and then they won't listen to them. And so I think I don't have any advice for four journalists but I do have advice for satirists that you still have to tell the truth, and you can't get carried away and start making things up. I mean we never ever made things up.

AMT: You know I always wanted to have an edition of The Current that I can never convince my producer - they're laughing at me I can see them - that I can never convince them to. I wanted to do a W T F edition of The Current and I didn't just want to say WTF, but I wanted to do an entire edition of that because sometimes you like you hear the morning news and you go...

RICK MERCER: Oh for sure. And that is one of the great luxuries that I had. I could basically in a rant say WTF and I could do that. And people found that refreshing for sure and that's why I think people responded to the rant the way they did.

AMT: You know you are a master of comedy but not all issues are dealt with comedy and you're a serious guy too. What issues do we need to be thinking about.

RICK MERCER: Well I think again that was one of the things that I liked about doing the show very much was a lot of subjects lend themselves to a comedic treatment. But certainly there are ones that don't. And I could tackle those. But looking forward right now, my concern is the quality of individuals entering public life entering politics. It seems to me more now than ever, I honestly don't know who would ever consider doing it. The individual politician has no power at all. All power is in the office of the Premier or the prime minister. So you really are - and this is regardless of party - you really are expected to just tow the line all the time, which leads you to ask the question like why are you even there. So I think a lot of very serious people would take a look at it and they would say I'm not entering public life. I have no interest. Never mind the vitriol that's thrown at you on the street on a daily basis. So I worry very much about the quality of individual and I would like to see actually you know more individuals M or MPP however be empowered more as individuals who can then represent their constituents, instead of just doing whatever the prime minister's office or the Premier's office tells them to do.

AMT: Interesting on the other thing is people used to say the media is so tough on politicians and now politicians are tough on each other. We see them really getting personal when it comes to election campaigns, when it comes to the back and forth. We always saw a bit of that but it seems to be talked right now.

RICK MERCER: Yeah it's an incredibly vitriolic world right now and I think politicians always, well they were colleagues, whether they were on different sides of the bench, they were colleagues. So you know yourself you go to work, you can't be vitriolic and angry and yelling and screaming and being very personal about someone's life to a colleague because the workplace will cease to function. But I think that's exactly what you see now. You know even in my time in Ottawa, there was a time when you saw after question period you saw people milling about and talking to one another and obviously there were friendships and relationships across the aisle. But I think there's less and less of that all the time.

AMT: Mm hmm. It's great to see you. Thank you for coming.

AMT: Thank you so much. And good luck on your future endeavours.

AMT: I might have to call you. Okay. Rick Mercer.

[Applause and cheers]

AMT: Long-time House of the Rick Mercer Report. He's preparing a nationwide comedy tour this coming fall. Wait for it. Watch for it. Be there. Thank you.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSITN TRUDEAU: Whether we're just waking up or on our way to work, Anna Maria your voice brought us the latest on issues that matter to Canadians. You got into radio long before broadcasts but we're glad you're not going far. Thank you for all your incredible contributions to Canadian journalism.

ELIZABETH MAY: It's not an easy thing to imagine the current without Anna Maria Tremonti. I loved being interviewed by you. I loved being challenged by you and I don't know that there will be your equal in filling your shoes.

ANDREW SCHEER: Hi Anna Maria. It's Andrew Scheer here and I just wanted to say big congratulations to you on a remarkable career on The Current. And I'm wishing you all the very best in your future projects at CBC and anywhere else.

JAGMEET SINGH: Hi. This is Jagmeet Singh I wanted to thank Anna Maria for all her years hosting The Current and for her contribution to Canada. For me personally it was the first time I shared my story. It was very difficult to share and I really want to thank Anna Maria for your kindness and your generosity in helping me talk about that. I know you'll do great things. Good luck and hopefully you'll have a chance to speak again too.

AMT: You are listening to The current on CBC Radio One. And you heard him kick off the show today Stephen Hart, aka The Voice is in the building and sitting next to me.

STEPHEN HART: Hello. Hello.

AMT: For the first decade of the current the deep satirical take on the news was a fixture at the beginning of every Current show. And we thought for my last program that would be fun to bring him back and find out what he's been up to. Hi Stephen.

STEPHEN HART: Hi Anna Maria.

AMT: What have you been up to?

STEPHEN HART: Well my film and television careers keeps rolling along. My voice is on some SUV commercials right now. But on the film side I been doing a lot of horror movies. I have no idea why. But you know what? This isn't about- Enough about me. This show is about you. We've got The Current house band. I'm going to serenade you The Current House Band. And without further ado, I'm Stephen Hart The Voice. This is The Current Anna Maria Tremonti will be right back after this song and the news and with our apologies to Paul Simon.

[Music]

STEPHEN HART: [Singing] 50 ways to leave The Current. Listen very closely everyone, the problem is that our interests at. [unintelligible] I'd like to help you with your struggle for some sleep. 50 ways to leave The Current. She said it really is my habit to intrude. Answer my questions or you'll suddenly be screwed. At the risk of bad reviews there must be 50 ways to leave The Current. You just think of it like. Just listen to me. No need to discuss much. Just drop the key, AMT, and get yourself free. You just listen to me. No need to discuss much. Just listen to me. Just drop the key, AMT, and get yourself free. It grieves me much to see you in such pain. I wish I didn't have to make you write that stuff all again. I said I appreciate that. And would you please explain above the 50 ways. She said don't bother traying and get some sleep tonight. You still got two guests to book for the morning light. So I'll repeat myself. 50 ways to leave The Current. You just turned off the mic. You take out the [unintelligible]. No need to discuss much. Just drop off the key, AMT, and set yourself free...

Big Issues over the years and behind the scenes with producers

Guests: Stephen Lewis, Tanya Talaga, Jaon Webber, Kathleen Goldhar

AMT: Hello I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to The Current.

[Cheers and applause].

AMT: Still to come something that's rarely happened in 17 seasons of The Current. I will pass off the microphone and I will be the one answering some questions. Carol Off as of As It Happens conducts my exit interview, as I like to call it, in half an hour. There will be an extra special guest appearance from the person I speak with every morning before we go to air. But first some of the issues that define the last 17 years and will define the years to come.

[Music]

AMT: A lot has changed since the current first aired on November 18th of 2002. We had just marked the one year anniversary of 9/11. John Chretien was prime minister. Canada was at war in Afghanistan but would not be going to Iraq. Twitter and Facebook did not exist. Imagine that.

TANYA TALAGA: How old are we?

AMT: HIV-AIDS was still a rampant killer especially in sub-Saharan Africa. And the term missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, well, it had not even been uttered yet at least not on CBC Radio. I have spoken to both of my next guests many times about many of these stories and so much more. Tanya Talaga is a columnist with The Toronto Star and the author of All Our Relations, Finding the path forward. Stephen Lewis is co-chair of the Stephen Lewis Foundation. He's a former United Nations ambassador, a former U.N. special envoy for HIV AIDS in Africa and they join me now. Hello to you both. Thank you for being here.

[Cheers and applause]

AMT: Stephen I want to start with you .when you look back at the last 15 20 years how would you describe how the country has grown?

STEPHEN LEWIS: Of Canada, itself? You know I was interested in what Rick Mercer was saying about the decline of public discourse and the vitriol and splenetic fury that is so much of the public conversation now. And in a way, there has been a continued decline in dealing thoughtfully and usefully with the issues of the day. We are a buoyant country. We have a place in the world, but somehow we've lost that that intellectual energy that wished to explore subjects to take them seriously, to realize that they they strike right to the soul, whether it is the question of HIV or indigenous rights or trade or war. We're as much on the sidelines now where before actually I think we were more central.

AMT: Where do you see a reason to hope?

STEPHEN LEWIS: Oh I see lots of reasons of hope because I see a rising generation. I don't want to be a romantic about this but I was thinking just the other night, Anna Maria, I was at the launch of the Green New Deal here in Toronto with David Suzuki and Pam Perlmutter and Naomi Klein and an audience packed with excitement. 80 percent of them were under the age of 35 and I got the sense - I mean climate is probably the most important issue on the planet today - and I got the sense of a of a surge of a movement that people were rising in protest against the paralytic response of politicians and it made me feel good. You know I think against the tide of reactionism, reactionary stuff. There is this young person's revival.

AMT: Tonya where do you see places to put hope, today?

TANYA TALAGA: I see hope with the youth. I see hope with Indigenous people. I see hope. With a rising and awakening in Canadians. Separate from what our politicians seem to be doing and saying. I think that we are coming together. All of us. And realizing that what we've had in the past, the Canada we've had in the past, isn't okay anymore. We have to have a more inclusive society. And it's not okay to have two different sets of rights for people in this country. We've so long looked internationally at all of the issues that are out there in the world. We've never looked really truly inwards, and I think that we are now and that is so important. And that gives me hope. You know every time I go around Canada and I speak about indigenous rights, the lack of Indigenous rights in this country, there's always an audience. People come and they come to listen. That gives me so much hope especially when the youth come out. When I see our First Nations meeting and any youth come out and say keep going. Let's all speak together.

AMT: You know Tanya there have been apologies to Indigenous people from various governments. There have been inquiries and commissions but what's made the biggest difference to the lives of Indigenous people in Canada?

TANYA TALAGA: That's a really good question. We're still there. We're still making differences in our lives. It's not an easy path but things have happened in this country to make it better, to increase understanding. And I'm thinking specifically of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission going across the country speaking to survivors, speaking to family members, listening to the stories of our people, listening to very much Canada's stories too. Because Canadians didn't seem to have an awareness of what was going on in those 139 Indian residential schools that were in this country from the mid eighteen 80s to 1996. You know if I had a dollar for every time somebody came up to me and said 'I had no idea of the existence of those schools' or 'what was happening?' I'd be a rich woman. And I think that that is an awareness that people are getting and they have been gaining from the TRC, from Senator Murray Sinclair's work, from the release of the report and that's led to a greater understanding and it's come out in such a great time too with the age of social media. Like you know you mentioned Facebook and Twitter and the world is a very different place. Well we didn't have the digital connectors but now that we do, we've got more education going on.

AMT: You know even the wording right. The word indigenous. I was not using in front of a microphone, what, six or seven years ago. The conversation changes. You know and that microphone is now in front of someone who is Indigenous speaking to tell their own stories. And as you say, I mean I'm one of those people who said to you I didn't grow up knowing these stories. And but that generation growing up now is hearing these stories and you're hearing them from indigenous people.

TANYA TALAGA: That's right and we're still fighting to get those stories heard in so many ways too right. And this is the thing that I always seem to tell Canadians too is that we can't wait for our governments to do this for us and to legislate things like let's have the curriculum changed, because as we've seen in this province that didn't happen. So we have to do things for ourselves. And that's not just us. It's not just first nations people doing that. It's First Nations people. It's everybody rising.

AMT: Stephen you've spent so much time travelling the world over the last decades working with those who deal with HIV and AIDS. What have you seen change on the ground over that time?

STEPHEN LEWIS: Well there's a lot more treatment, antiretroviral treatment, for people living with HIV and AIDS. So populations are now alive that have not no hope in the past, had no hope in the past. But the infection rates are still nearly two million people a year. The deaths are very high, nearly a million people a year. We've made some considerable progress. We don't have infants emerging HIV positive during the birthing or breast feeding process because there is an antiretroviral drug which can prevent that. We've had some considerable progress on what we call key populations, LGBT, and injecting drug use, and sex workers, and prison populations. But there are things which really stymie and hold out hope for the future because they can be confronted. Do you know that we still have seven thousand new infections every week in young women and girls between the ages of 15 and 24? It's so overwhelming to recognize that we're still fighting this pandemic and in every sense and I know that my own foundation has focussed on grandmothers and on community based projects. And what the world has learned which gives rise to optimism is that it's not the governments that will make the difference. It's the people at the grassroots who make the difference which is exactly what Tanya is saying about the indigenous communities and the voice that has emerged and the power of that voice.

AMT: Well and this is something we can't forget when we look at social media and we look at the ills of social media, because social media has allowed that grassroots voice on so many important issues to come forward. You talk about the grandmothers and of course is that great connection of grandmothers in Canada with grandmothers in African countries. It's also about the empowerment of women in communities where they were marginalized and ignored. And things changed. They often with the help of your foundation they rolled up their sleeves and they took control.

STEPHEN LEWIS: Well that's despite the misogyny, despite the inequality. It's amazing the transformation at the grassroots in Africa because it is no longer simply keeping people alive. It's women demanding their human rights, insisting on legal recourse, wanting inheritance rights, wanting rights to health and access to medicines. It's a movement on the ground amongst people who were oppressed and decimated. The courage and resilience, Anna Maria, is just astonishing. It sort of lifts the heart and the spirit. You wander through these communities which have been devastated by the worst pandemic we've known in this century and yet they have restored their faith and their strength. That's astonishing.

AMT: And Tanya we've seen indigenous women as well take the lead so many times.

TANYA TALAGA: I'm just thinking of that as you're speaking about other things that you've seen in Africa and the things that we have seen in this country. And I continue to see we're still fighting for those things. We're still fighting for health care. We're still fighting for doctors and nurses in our communities. We're still fighting for the right for a high school education, you know, for our kids. We're fighting for high schools. Things that a lot of other people take for granted. That fight is still going on here. There's so much to do here and we have seen our women rising. You know even with the inquiry what we've just seen across the country nearly three years. Twenty three hundred people spoken to discuss murdered and missing indigenous women and girls which has been something we've known in our communities has been a huge huge issue. You know indigenous women have been the most vulnerable of the vulnerable you know and it's been a hard climb and we're still trying to get to a place of equity.

AMT: And when we took come the current on the road with our missing and murdered indigenous girls we had a virtual reality documentary and we went and we had Q and A's and a number of different places. And we had people tell their stories, and so many things that I had not heard or that I was hearing in a different way, even a more visceral way. I'm wondering how non-Indigenous journalists need to be telling these stories? What do we need to be thinking about as more of these stories come forward?

TANYA TALAGA: Non-Indigenous journalists need to open their ears. They need to open their ears and open their eyes and they need to think in a different way. You know I was at the press conference at the at the closing of the national inquiry and I remember being in the room and Justin Brake from APTN was also there and we were I think the only two Indigenous journalists that were there for the closing press conference itself. And the questions that were coming from the non-indigenous journalists there were really quite astounding and they were just fixated on genocide, fixated on the word and we just couldn't seem to get past that in that press conference. And I remember just thinking, feeling so dejected. You know is this where we are? These are my colleagues here too and they just can't see it. They can't see what's been in front of them this entire time. We had this exact same argument four years ago with the release of the TRC when Murray Sinclair's called this cultural genocide. This isn't the first time this word has been used. This has been a reality for Indigenous people in this country. And to hear in the national media just having such a problem with it, it was so disheartening. You know when I remember Justin Brake tweeting about it afterwards and I remember I had to leave the room I just left.

STEPHEN LEWIS: Can I just underscore that it's astonishing the way in which the non-indigenous community has appropriated the right to tell the indigenous world whether or not it's a genocide. It's amazing the way they've done that. And when you talk about the historical truth over centuries then the word genocide absolutely and unequivocally applies. And what Tanya saying is completely right we have to focus on the recommendations and get away from this obsession over the word.

AMT: We're almost out of time but before I let you go I want to know your insights in these big issues. As you look forward, what are the other issues that the next host of The Current's going to have to be talking about as well?

STEPHEN LEWIS: You're going to have to be talking about equality. In no uncertain terms because the gap between the one percent and the impoverished parts of the world and within countries, indigenous communities are a stark example of that. We have to deal with it. We have to deal with climate. There is no question in my mind that it's the central issue of our time. And we have to deal with poverty which is heartrending and heartbreaking because in truth in many parts of the world it's increasing.

AMT: Tanya.

TANYA TALAGA: Political divisions I see. I see polarization of opinion and thought and that is going to be increasingly something we're going to have to deal with and we're going to have to fight for space and we're going to have to fight to get our voices heard more. And I think that we're going to be seeing that as the election comes through and down through the years. Politics is changing. Politics is getting nastier but politics also needs to open up. Politics also needs to open their eyes their ears collectively and listen to other voices in this country. Listen to Indigenous voices in this country to make way. Governance equity. Equity is going to be a big deal in this country along with climate. It all leads back to rights in so many ways.

AMT: And as you both point out younger voices are rising up. We will not be able to turn those voices off. Thank you both.

STEPHEN LEWIS: Thank you. It's a privilege, Anna Maria.

TANYA TALAGA: I'll miss you.

AMT: Tanya Talaga columnist with The Toronto Star, author of All Our Relations Finding the Path Forward. Stephen Lewis co-chair of the Stephen Lewis Foundation. Former U.N. Special Envoy for HIV-AIDS in Africa. Thank you.

SOUNDCLIP

LARA RAE: Hi Anna Maria. It's Larry. I was looking for the right word to describe what you did for me back when that's a newly transitioned woman. You had that intimate interview with me. Or how when I guess host that the current you got that house ready like someone who leaves a note when your house is sitting on how to work the remote. The word is the female version of avuncular. Mature Turin. Hi Anna Maria.

VICKY MOCHAMA: I'm Vicky Mochama and I just am so excited for you to join us in the crazy world of podcasting.

ELAMIN ABDELMAHMOUD: I'm Elamin Abdelmahmoud. I think Anna Maria your journalism and the standard you set has been a lighthouse not just for me but to so many young journalists in this country.

FARAH KHAN: My name is Farah Khan. When I listen to Anna Maria I think about someone who's a strong role model for women journalists and for women in general that we don't back down from hard questions.

RINALDO WALCOTT: Hi Anna Maria. Thank you for the attention to black life and the academy. You did it with care, taught and the urgency both demanded. I look forward to the podcast doing the same thing. Rinaldo Walcott.

AMT: So many nice messages thank you. And we have been so many places.

SOUNDCLIP

AMT: We didn't bring the current to Moscow for this story but this story is at the heart of why we are here in the political heart of Russia almost to the.

[Singing]

AMT: Good morning. I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to a special edition of The Current with stories from Havana.

AMT: Over the years on the current it's been me behind the microphone whether from our studio here in the broadcast centre or on the road. I'm the person who brings you the stories but the truth is of course I am never alone. There are dozens of smart and very patient people who are working alongside me called producers. They come in earlier than I do. Others who work into the night to make sure the show is ready for morning. These are the people who come in with story ideas. They find the guests. They booked the studios. They work on the scripts. They do all the amazing research. Usually it all goes smoothly. But we've also had our share of hair raising experiences and the two women sitting up here with me have been part of that Kathleen Goldhar and Joan Webber. Both original current producers who began this journey with me in 2002. Kathleen has done every job on the show, eventually going on to become our executive producer and that is a role she just wrapped up last year. And now like me she is dedicating herself to podcasts. So I'm following her out the door away from this mic. Joan is still with us. Joan is still with us. She is our Documentary Editor and Senior Producer and many of her documentaries have gone on to win awards. She is normally based out of Vancouver. She's with us here in Toronto today. Hi. You guys. Well it has been 17 years. Joan what did you imagine the show was going to be when you actually had the courage to apply to work on it?

JOAN WEBBER: You know I'm not entirely sure what I thought but one thing I don't know if I've ever told you this when I first saw the job posting for a producer job on the show it didn't have a name. The show had no name but if I can say this it was actually a thrilling job posting. That sounds kind of wacky because job postings usually aren't thrilling but it was talking about how the show was going to be national, international news. There were going to be big interviews. There were going to be documentaries in the mornings. So I thought this sounds awesome and I read through that 'I've got to get this job'. And I got down to the bottom and it said the deadline for application is- and it was like two days ago. Like I missed the deadline for applying. I was like I was horrified. But I had to talk my way into getting an interview and convinced the exec at the time that I could make deadlines. I really can make deadlines. But anyway. And then I got the job and what really struck me is when I flew it to Toronto and we were all in one room and I found out, before that you were going to be the host. This is going to be such a smart show. And the thing that really stands up for me now is I remember how walking to that room. Everyone was so- it seemed like such an eclectic group of people, such a fascinating group of people and everybody was so nice and I thought wow.

AMT: They still are. But everybody is so nice Still. Kathleen what do you remember from those first days.

KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: Nothing.

AMT: We fried your brain. Yes.

KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: I always say that I have only - when I was at The Current - only enough brain space to hold what was happening that day and the rest of it just sort of disappears. I remember it was chaotic, to be polite. But it was, like Joan said, there was so much energy. It was so exciting. We really had this blank slate and I was a little too new to CBC to realize at the time just how precious and amazing that was. But now I look at it and just realize what we had was just beyond- like beyond. We were all new. Like we most of us hadn't even worked for -I mean other than you were our anchor. But we were so young, so young, and they just sort of said go. Tell us what you're excited about. Tell us where you see the stories. Where we can take things that are in the news and twist them and flip them and talk about things that nobody's talking about. And it was- the energy was amazing.

AMT: We went north.

KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: A bunch of times.

AMT: We made snow angels on an ice road, just saying. Never done that before. Joan and I went to Moscow and we ended up being in Moscow. We had this great show planned. Everything all nice and neat in an order. And then two women blew themselves up on a subway that morning and everything changed. But, Joan, we also made a deal we met a man named Andre Lugovoy and we made a deal that day with each other, about his hospitality.

JOAN WEBBER: Well yes because of course Andre Lugovoy was the man wanted or alleged to have killed Alexander Litvinenko with polonium 210 in his tea. And we went to the Duma and there was a lot of security to get in there remember we went through all kinds of layers of security. And we got in. We met him and did the interview of course he denied lacing the tea with polonium 210. But the strange thing at the end his he says 'Oh I have a restaurant in town. You two should check it out'. In what world are we going to an alleged killers restaurant and like have food? I don't know anyway but we actually did go. But we did go. And actually think we have a piece of tape here from when we dropped into the restaurant. We do not have a piece of tape here.

AMT: I guess we were okay, didn't get poisoned. We didn't order. We were so scared they were going to poison us. We left. You didn't order. We thought they were going to poison us.

JOAN WEBBER: We were certain.

AMT: And Kathleen as if there was the day of the shooting on Parliament Hill, we just- I had to run back in the studio. We kept working for hours.

KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: I think you were on the air for six hours and this is the way journalists talk and it's going to sound awful but there was a great day. I mean it is a terrible story but this is what makes us thrive. I mean it was incredible. We just moved and we were, as that day was unfolding, and we really didn't know. I mean there were all these stories coming in but it was amazing and that was really what makes The Current work.

AMT: I just have to say all the producers and the people behind the scenes at The Current are what has made this program so great for 17 seasons. I have been so lucky. I have made friends. I have learned so much. Some days I would get stars I go what is this about. I would learn so much and I love you all. This is The Current stay with us. We're coming back. Thank you.

Our humanity 'shines' when we connect: What Anna Maria Tremonti learned from hosting The Current

Guests: Carol Off, Anna Maria Tremonti

AMT: Hello I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to The Current. We are coming to you this morning from the CBC atrium at CBC in Toronto. This is a special edition of The Current and my final edition of The Current.

[Applause]

AMT: And believe it or not I'm going to do something I never do on The Current I'm going to hand control over to someone else and the person who's going to take control is Carol Off. As you know Carol is the host of ads it happens. Hi. I'm going to let you sit here actually and I'm going to sit over there. So give us a second.

CAROL OFF: Okay. I'm sitting in her chair. Look at that. I'm feeling the power. Okay. Now we just have to-- You've just done your last interview on The Current. Now you have been going to be interviewed by me. This is your last time but I am in your chair doing it and I just- This is a big moment people. I mean really. [Applause] And I've not seen you shed a single tear in the course of this show. Your people are piles of wet Kleenex all around here. And you are cool as a cucumber.

AMT: I am in stoic denial.

CAROL OFF: So I can't make you cry.

AMT: You might make me cry. Now you might, you might.

CAROL OFF: You know my husband worked with you at the fifth estate and it was your last job before you came to the current. And he was remarking, he remembers your reluctance the feeling of leaving television, leaving the field and going to this show was nervous making. It was something that you just you had some reticence and, okay, seventeen years later, any regrets? Too late.

AMT: No I actually I found it more fulfilling than I thought it would be. I knew it would be exciting. I knew it would be interesting but I just I didn't know how fulfilling it would be.

CAROL OFF: Why was it fulfilling?

AMT: Because you could do the kind of. Can I move my mic a bit? Am I allowed to? I still take control. Because you can explore things in a different way you can. You can do longer interviews and really kind of-- like all that stuff that used to fall on the cutting room floor I get to keep. And because I get to learn. I mean it was an education every single day. Literally I kid you not. Sometimes I would-- I remember Karen Marley. I don't know where she's sitting right now. Karen Marley gave me this background on brains and I remember thinking who is this person? How does she know this? Where did she find this. And how many times that I would think that some of our producers and that's a gift. That's so cool.

CAROL OFF: You know my first knowledge of you was on television watching you, hearing you and there is a clip. This is from the 1990s when you were a foreign correspondent and this is just so characteristic of you doing something. It's very short. We'll just play this little clip of you.

SOUNDCLIP

AMT: It's AMT calling. From the Holy Land [laughs]. I've got a script for you.

CAROL OFF: That's it. You know 'AMT calling I mean the Holy Land. I got a script for you'. That is so you right. I've got the goods. You better listen.

AMT: Yeah. You had to jump through some script approvals back then. Better to get off the phone quick so they couldn't make it change anything.

CAROL OFF: But you were in Jerusalem then and that's when I first met you. And I what I remember about you in the field was how generous you were how you would help someone like me who had no idea what I was doing. And you were just there for me.

AMT: It's so interesting that we met there, that I knew your name, I knew your work, but I had never met you. And then we were having breakfast at a hotel. But I would have never thought you didn't know because I would listen to you and I just so admired the work you had done.

CAROL OFF: I was on radio but the thing is that you were ground breaking because - and I think people should go back to 1990s and this is hard to believe - but it was still extremely difficult for a woman to be a foreign correspondent for the CBC or anywhere. And you pushed your way through. And I know there was pushback. I know it was not pleasant all the times which you had to do in order to be taken into that world. How difficult was it to be a woman and a foreign correspondent?

AMT: You know it was interesting especially the idea of women covering war. In fact the Bosnian war was really the first war. There were a few women who covered the Vietnam War but you could literally name them on the fingers of one hand. And most of us had figured out who they were. Right. But in covering war especially Bosnia was the war where every news boss realized we should send the women. And I got to Bosnia and they were like they were all there.

CAROL OFF: Why did they realize that?

AMT: Well because the women said what the hell. We're going. You know essentially. You know I mean Anne Madina had covered the war in Lebanon for the CBC. And I remember watching her thinking I want to do that. But very few women had done it for the CBC either. But women- like it was almost collective right. I mean you and I are of the generation where our first jobs we were the only women and and in the newsroom. And if we didn't work out there weren't going to be other women, they told us. And that's what's changed right. And so Janine Digiovanni, Marie Colvin you know Lyse Doucet, all of these people covering war that weren't covered. You know that's the generation. And so it was hard. You know I remember and even in Jerusalem, I remember going out with a crew for the first time in the West Bank. One of the American crews search my crew who's that? Our reporter. Why is she with you like? Because often the crews just went into the West Bank and shot and reporters stayed back. And you know it was a different era and you had to be on the ground and you had to be there. And as women we wanted part of those stories too.

CAROL OFF: But you know I think the reason why they decided, okay, we have to start sending the women was because of how you did your work. And that well we didn't hear from the men in war zones who covered the bang bang who wanted to do what was going on in the front lines. They wanted the action. You would go to where the women were. You would go and talk and see what the families were doing how they were coping. And I think that was the biggest difference and why that connected with viewers and listeners in a way that the other war coverage was not. I think that that's definitely what you brought. And I want to play a clip of you in Mostar, during the Bosnian War 1993, and this is your reporting.

SOUNDCLIP

AMT: Milk twice a day and a hunk of bread is the ration for this group of refugees. They are Muslims forced by Croat soldiers to leave their homes in West Mostar and come here.

TRANSLATOR: Sevda Yousuovic explains that every morning when she wakes up and moves she hopes it will be the last day of her family's suffering.

CAROL OFF: That was you reporting from Mostar in 1993. And that's what I mean.

AMT: You know to me that's what war is. War is the people caught in war. That war is not the front-- the frontlines you need to know about. But what you really need to know about it is who's hiding in a little corner terrified and what are we doing to them, and how are they going to survive. And like we need to know they're there right because that's what war is. And you don't - when you're in war that is like there is no one not going through the greatest trauma of their life. And if you don't reflect that and you don't reflect who you're meeting then you're not covering that war.

CAROL OFF: But I think that what's women brought and I think that's what changed for the reporting on the CBC because it was very different after you showed up, and other women who started to do it, but you really changed the tone. I remember a Christmas in the early 1990s, watching the national and everyone else was going off having their holidays. And there you were. You were in a burned out basement somewhere. It was an underground. And there was a hospital in Sarajevo and the bombs were flying up above them. The mortars were attacking all kinds of civilization. And you were down below watching an operation done by candlelight. And I will never forget the image of you down there and the warmth and kindness you brought to that reporting. Do you remember that?

AMT: I remember that story really well because we realized we had a flashlight and these two nurses were standing like angels of the night or something with candles, and they were working on this guy's leg. And we said- I was working with Max [unintelligible] of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation we often work together and we said we have a we have a flashlight. And Max got the flashlight and held it. And they finished the operation because they could barely see. But yeah that's-- And those doctors had gone over frontlines to get to that clinic. And I mean it was just incredible what you would see and people may-- and you know it was a woman she met you know her little boy was there. He had shrapnel in his head and it was that classic case of you know all of this mortar fire and then quiet and the kids are stir crazy so. Okay, okay, you can go out for 10 minutes. Right then is when the mortar shell goes. As soon as they step outside. The cousin's killed and he's got shrapnel on his brain and they're in a hospital with candlelight. That's it. That's all. Right. That's-- And like I'll never forget those people.

CAROL OFF: I won't forget it either. You went back to Sarajevo for the 20th anniversary.

AMT: With you.

CAROL OFF: I was there yes. You spoke with some women who had been raped during the war and that was a big part of ugly part. Well so many ugly parts of that war but that the sexual assault of the women, the rape camps that existed. You'd covered that at the time and you went back and you found women who had become pregnant because of those rape camps. Do you remember talking to them?

AMT: Oh so much so in fact I'm looking at Lara O'Brien who's in the audience. Lara was the producer for that and she found those women and she started like in the fall. And we were going to go in the spring and everybody said to Lara nobody is going to talk to you. And Lara just kept going back and back and back and two women were willing to talk to us. And we were like just astounded at their stories. We just we would meet them for one day and we spent the most of one day with each of them. And I knew that like. I always wondered what happens to you what happens to you when the war is over? You've been raped. You've been gang raped. You carry a pregnancy to term. What do you tell your kid? How do you relate to that child? What is your life like? I always wondered. And those two women were kind enough to tell us, the very different women very different experiences with their children. One of them I talk about it in the documentary she starts playing with the little, little sticker on her lighter, and I'm just watching her hands and she's like-- I don't understand her. This is in translation and I'm just watching her and she's like building up and I'm thinking Oh my God she's going to tell me now. You know because she wasn't sure she wanted to talk when she got there. To be able to do that story, to be able to say to The Current I want to take half an hour of prime time morning radio and I want to talk about the rape of women in war. And the bosses say: Okay. What do you need? We'll let you do that. That's the gift of The Current as well we have been able to tackle those kinds of stories at a time of day when people would go 'Oh we're not so sure about that'. And you know what the listeners have said thank you for that. And that's really been important to me.

AMT: Because that's the gift of Anna Maria Tremonti because what you do with that story is that you don't make it so horrific that no one can bear it. You tackled it as into the humanity of those stories and that has been your hallmark no matter who you talk to, no matter where you've gone, you have made it a hallmark of your empathy of being able to draw those people and I think what people remember most about what you have done for these 17 years is that you have made Canada your hometown. You have been from coast to coast, talking to people on the line but also going to town halls everywhere. You have connected with this country. What does that meant for you?

AMT: A lot. You know when I became a foreign correspondent it was just lesson Jr. who said now that you're foreign correspondent you better think about what you're going to be when you're not. And I thought about coming home because when you're foreign correspondent you never want to come home. It's a great life. And the people you [unintelligible] to are far away and asleep. So it's perfect. But I remember thinking you know, I sort of toyed with the idea of going to the states. And I just like now you know I want to report to Canadians. And I thought I'm going to go home at some point. I need to be closer to my family I want to be home. And if I go home I want to do those stories in my own backyard because when you do them somewhere else that's okay. But when you do them in your own backyard, we, only we in Canada, will report on other Canadians. Now that kind of report on us a little bit those foreign correspondents. But if we want to know about ourselves we have to tell ourselves about ourselves. So we're only as good as we want to be right here at home. And it mattered to me to be home.

CAROL OFF: And so Fort Mac fires, a kitchen party in Newfoundland, Trans Mountain pipeline, all those places where you went and you connected with those stories. What is it did you learn? What's the most the biggest thing you yourself gained from turning Canada into your hometown?

AMT: That the humanity of an individual no matter where they stand on the political spectrum exists and it shines, if you take the trouble to say: 'Hi. What do you think?' You know that the yelling only happens in clips. And you know when the mics are on, but if you just take the time and talk to people, even the most polarizing of people, you know what? They're human beings and they're not ogres and they actually want to talk to the other side. And that we live in a pretty damn great country. With all its problems. We still have a way forward.

CAROL OFF: Right. Okay. Two minute warning to wrap it around. What was the scariest moment?

AMT: The scariest moment on The Current? One day I was choking. I was literally. You know I get a little dust in your throat in your choking. I literally could not speak. And it was a day we were doing something. I don't know why I can't remember all the detail it was an anthrax period in the world and it was ricin.

CAROL OFF: And Willy came out and had...

AMT: Yes exactly because Willy is a gardener and he grows the plant that makes ricin and seeds. Remember ricin and is the stuff they put in the umbrella and they killed the spy. You know it kills her. And remember breaking bad ricin?

CAROL OFF: Yes.

AMT: Okay well he's got the beans, castor beans and he brought them in and we're going to talk about them but I'm choking and we had one piece of tape and Willy comes on the air and we change all the tape and no one ever knew. It was just fine. And I eventually stopped choking.

CAROL OFF: Your funniest moment.

AMT: My funniest moment. Oh gosh. I did a story with Aaron Brindle who's here today. Aaron was doing a story about the infestation of carpenter ants through the prism of his own apartment. And did you know that carpenter ants have no [laughs] - I'm going to do it again [laughs]. They have no butthole.

[Laughter]

AMT: [Laughing] So if you poison them with something they explode. I did not know this. I couldn't stop laughing. [Laughs] I know it's my juvenile humour. So.

CAROL OFF: It is it's here. There's a grade five student struggling to get out of you. Okay. Final question. Who gets your coffee pot? She has an illegal coffee pot. Okay. I'm outing you on this one. You have had this coffee pot, this show The Current was fuelled by black coffee. Much of it. And it came from an illegal pot in her office. Who gets it?

AMT: Who gets it. The Current gets it. I can't take it home after this and can I just say, the next host, I'm not weighing in, I don't want to weigh in at all, but the next house better be a coffee drinker. Can I just say?

CAROL OFF: And can I just say this is just been a privilege and an honour to speak with you this morning, Anna Maria. Thank you so much for 17 years.

AMT: There's a little tour here.

CAROL OFF: I saw. I did it.

AMT: Yes. You did it.

[Cheers and applause]

AMT: I go back to my chair.

AMT: Musical chairs. Oh okay. Yes. Right. I have a script here. Okay. Carol Off. As It Happens host, you know that. If you don't already listen to CBC podcasts and you want to hear what I get up to next it's easy you can go to cbc.ca/thecurrent, or the current Facebook or Twitter, You will find step by step instructions on how to download podcasts so you can keep hearing my voice and my conversations. But you can also turn them off would you need to listen later. So there you go.

'Thank you for listening': Anna Maria Tremonti's goodbye speech in full

Guests: Tullio Tremonti

SOUNDCLIP

[Phone dial tone]

[Phone ringing]

TULLIO TREMONTI: Hi Anna Maria.

AMT: Hi Dad.

TULLIO TREMONTI: How are you?

AMT: I'm okay. How are you?

TULLIO TREMONTI: Okay.

AMT: So every morning before we go to air on The Current I have a little ritual I call my 94 year old father Tullio Tremonti. He lives in Windsor Ontario. I just check in. I've been doing it for six and a half years. I started calling him every morning after my mom died just to make sure he's there and before I start. And I don't have to make the call today because he's right here with us. Dad, you want to stand up say hi.

[Cheers and applause]

AMT: Can I just say full head of hair. 94. I know you want to say something.

TULLIO TREMONTI: Well, Anna Maria, I'm proud of you. Your mother your mother and I gave you the foundation for whatever you are being able to do. But the credit of what you accomplished is yours.

AMT: Thank you Dad. [Applause] I love you. I love you Dad. Thank you for being here. You know if I'd known there was so much love out there I would've either quit sooner or I wouldn't leave at all just to kind of keep it all. But I have been overwhelmed at all the attention I've been getting lately and the kindness. And I am deeply moved by how much the kind of journalism we've been doing here at the current matters to all of you. And you know I end every show by thanking you for listening to the current. And I've always truly meant it because it's a privilege and it's a really fulfilling thing to be able to say. Listen to this. Listen to what I figured out with my reporting. Listen to what I've learned. Or, you've got to hear what this person is saying or thinking or or doing. Listen to this. So that's why I want to thank you all the time. And you know I get to do that almost every day several times a day and I've gotten to do it for years. Because, you and I'm talking to those of you here in the audience in the CBC atrium, and I'm talking to those of you who are thousands of miles away turning up your smartphone just a notch, you, the smart, curious audience wanted to hear about all the things that we've brought forward on this show. For 17 seasons you have been my partners in listening. In fact the most important thing I have learned in hosting The Current is how to listen, not how to talk, not how to ask questions, but how to listen. How to say nothing even and hear what someone else is really saying because I learn not in the asking but in the hearing. I learn about someone or something in the words that are spoken and then how they're spoken and the words that are used in the exuberance, in the hesitation, in the emotion. Even the silences tell me something and they tell me something loudly. At a world where so many people are shouting at each other, where so many refuse to hear anything but their own voice, the ability to hear another side to think differently, to question yourself, to learn something new, that is a gift. And there's another side to this listening. We made a decision here at The Current 17 seasons ago that we were not going to be afraid of tough or controversial subjects. We made a decision that conversations grounded in journalism with all the research and the rigour and all the uncomfortable facts were worthy pursuits, even at eight thirty in the morning. And we have been richly rewarded with an audience that gets bigger. With the satisfaction of knowing that we're onto issues that matter .with the realization that even though we can't see you out there every day you need us to continue. You know we're in an era where fake news is a reality, where substandard information competes with quality journalism, at a time when major issues are confronting our world and our lives. And where journalism is too often suspect, where those who we have an obligation to hold to account would like to discredit us. Some days it's enough to make me want to crawl under a rock but I have been reminded daily that there is a hunger for fact, that the majority of people want a world that helps not a world that hurts. And that big and complicated ideas are not a turnoff. They are embraced and that's where I find my eternal optimism. I think journalism matters and obviously so do you. And so as I leave this program in my own pursuit of new challenges with changing technology, where I can experiment a little more with how to present a story or a conversation, I'm not leaving journalism. And I'm not abandoning my efforts to search out individual particular stories that speak to wider universal truths, because I know there are a whole lot of you who care about the detail, about the truth, about compassion and about others. And that's why I say thank you for listening to The Current. And thank you for listening to me.

[Applause]

AMT: And you know this line too. That's our program for today. Stay with Radio One for Q Tom Powers waiting in the wings. The Current House Band is joining us back onstage to play us out. How do I get a house band only on my last day? How is that possible? I'm Anna Maria Tremonti. From the bottom of my heart thank you for listening to The Current.

[Applause and cheers]

THE VOICE: Anna Maria from all of your colleagues and all of your listeners, thank you. Now with our apologies to Willie Nelson and Coolio Iglesias, this is all the guests she's known before.

[Music]

THE VOICE: [Singing] To all the guests she's met before, who travelled through her studio door. We're glad you came alone. We dedicate this song to all the guests you've met before. To all the guests she once adressed. And may I say you've done the best for helping us to grow. We owe a lot. We know. To all the guests she's met before. The winds of change are always blowing, oh why oh why can't you just stay.

Thursday June 20, 2019 Full Transcript

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