Podcaster reaches out to people who hate him
Dylan Marron has a conversation with his haters and discovered there’s often more to the story
Internet comment sections aren't exactly known for civil or nuanced conversations but one digital creator found connections in these chaotic pieces of online real estate.
In his podcast, Conversations with People Who Hate Me, Dylan Marron reaches out to some of the people who have left him negative and hateful comments and messages.
Now in its second season, the show puts Marron in conversation with these commenters, as well as moderating conversations between other people who have had hateful exchanges online.
The start of the conversation
Marron's online popularity rose in 2015 with his series Every Single Word, in which he edited down popular films to only the dialogue spoken by people of colour.
"I was just getting tons and tons of very nasty and negative comments. My face wasn't on those videos, so they weren't directed at me," said Marron.
"When I started to make videos that did have me in them, that's when the negativity, the 'hate' so to speak, was directed at me."
While most would try to ignore these comments, Marron addressed them head-on.
He called out one commenter, Josh, who told Marron he was a "moron," and that "being gay is a sin."
This callout got the two talking — a conversation that ultimately turned into one of the first episodes of the podcast.
"The conversation was really wonderful and it was far more nuanced than any conversation we could have had through a comment section," said Marron.
"It made me so curious … to see if some of the negative comments or messages I had gotten could actually be the start of a conversation rather than the end of one."
Conversation, not debate
Marron is clear to say that he is not interested in debating with his guests.
"What's much more interesting to me is asking where people are coming from … It's, why do you believe this?" said Marron. "Tell me about you. Tell me about the community you come from. Tell me about what drives you, what excites you, what wakes you up in the morning?"
It's through this opening up that Marron finds empathy for his guests.
"The more vulnerable they are, the more I can empathize with them, and also the more vulnerable I feel empowered to be," he said.
Marron says that this vulnerability can be challenging.
Some of his guests have expressed opinions that are fundamentally at odds with Marron's deepest held beliefs. But he's dealt with this vulnerability by developing a mantra: "Empathy is not endorsement."
"Empathizing with someone who really fundamentally disagrees with you, and in some cases fundamentally disagrees with the very core of who you are, does not mean that you are suddenly forsaking everything that you know to be true and agreeing with them," said Marron.
"It just means that you're seeing their humanity and acknowledging that they're a human."
Empathizing hate as a way to love
Marron's goal is not to change his guest's minds.
"You don't change someone's mind in the course of a phone call. You don't even change someone's mind in the course of a year necessarily. Change is slow and change is so unsexy," said Marron.
His goal is more subtle — to disrupt the conventional ways that we interact with people on the opposite side of the ideological spectrum through empathy.
"If it feels like it's shared, and if it feels like we're both being vulnerable, and we're both opening up to each other, that is when empathy feels like the most life giving thing," said Marron.
"It does feel draining when it just goes one way — in honestly the same way that love does. Love feels draining when it's not reciprocated, but love is the most life-giving, energy-giving thing when it's reciprocated. And empathy is for sure, in my opinion, a form of love."
While Marron is not recommending that everyone call up their online "haters," he does hope that his show will inspire listeners to open up to having empathetic conversations with people with differing opinions.
"I want to push us out of our bubbles because I think there's great value in that. Coming out of your bubble does not compromise what you believe, and empathizing with someone in a different bubble does not compromise who you are."