This Black lawyer and mother is fighting systemic racism from the inside

Take me back to your first day in court.

The very first time I came to court I was still in law school, because law students can represent people on simple charges.  I was so excited. I was gonna come to court and have my big TV moment. 

There is a metal bar that separates the lawyers part of the court from the people in the gallery.  When you are called to the bar, you have the right to go and stand behind that bar. 

So like every other person in that courtroom, I acknowledged the magistrate with my bow and I went behind the bar to get the docket. 

The magistrate stopped me and said, "What are you doing here? You're supposed to be behind the bar." 

She thought I was accused. 

My client, actually, was the one raising a stink about this and I was telling them, "Just let it go. It doesn't really matter."

What's the lesson you took from that moment?

At that point I definitely felt like, I don't belong here. I actually did not want to talk about this for a long time, because I felt like it reflected badly on me. Maybe I wasn't dressed properly or I didn't look right, or I've done something wrong or something like that. I felt like it would be something people would use against me, that they'd think "Maybe we shouldn't hire you because you won't be effective." 

But now I see that same magistrate every day, and she knows who I am now, and she respects me now. She has never mentioned what happened, and probably doesn't remember it. I definitely feel like nobody would dare to do that now, and if they did, they would not say it to my face. Because I'm here every day. And I have as much right to be here. I've earned it just as much as anybody else here has. But the fact that it happened at all, I think is unfortunate.

You're just reminding me how vulnerable that is to be just in the baby steps of trying to enter into this world, and having that moment and then being like 'Don't speak up, don't say something.'

Recently, there was another woman who was a person of colour that was an articling student. A white male lawyer made comments that I found extremely offensive. And there were probably 15 or 20 lawyers standing there. Nobody said anything. 

So then I was like, I guess I'm gonna say something to the 60-year-old senior guy. So I did….Nobody else said a word but then after everybody comes up to me and says "Zilla! Good for you for saying something. That was awesome." 

Well, you know, I didn't have to be the only one...Why is the other personal colour having to speak up for this person of colour when there are 15 of you that are probably his friend and know him and might have more impact?

With this recent news cycle, stories like that people are sharing everywhere, and I think there's something that's hitting me because these are stories of people working in the criminal justice system. You know, in light of a lot of the current conversation especially around the justice system and the questions that people are asking... I'm curious for you, what questions have you been struggling with about the work that you do?

I think I've always struggled with the idea that so many people we lock up are locked up for being poor. They are people that live on the margins. There is a large, large proportion of Indigenous people in Manitoba that are in the criminal justice system. And there's quite a large number of persons of colour who have immigrant backgrounds. There's something so fundamentally unjust about that. 

It's not like all these people are murderers and rapists, right like they're breaching the court conditions that said not to drink, but they're an alcoholic because they've been CFS since they were eight years old, and their parents went to residential schools. Or they had a fake $20 bill like George Floyd.  I had a kid that gave a taxi driver a fake bill. He swore that he didn't know was fake. Those types of things right? And they're happening to the poor, the young, the vulnerable, that people have mental illnesses that people with addictions.

So what does that make you think about your role?

[I wonder] are we actually helping? Because I'm supposed to be upholding the Constitution, which is supposed to give equal rights to all. And we so clearly don't have that. But I think that the whole system really needs to change. 

I always ask, why is not paying people their wages, not in the Criminal Code? Because that's a lot of the stealing that happens, right? People contact you and say, "Well, I worked for this guy for two weeks in a small company, and he fired me and didn't pay me anything." That should be an offence of theft, right? Like, how is that not just as bad as taking somebody's $20 bill or their bike or something? 

Why is racism not in there? You can basically discriminate against someone and not give them a job or a house with impunity. Like, why are you not here in the criminal courts, like standing trial for that? We just don't seem to really prioritise the right thing. So I think that's frustrating to me.

Fighting all the time can get exhausting, and fighting against very great powers that are so much more advantaged than you can get very frustrating. But I think there's opportunities to change the system from within, so I think that it is important to be there, and to be a mentor for others that come, and to be a voice.

You wrote a Facebook post, a very personal Facebook post, that sort of links some of what you're talking about right now, to you as a mother, and you as a mother to your two young Black boys.

You'd said, "Some of these issues start when kids are very, very young...Black boys are a threat just for being. Black people should keep quiet with our complaints or make sure that we voice them in a way palatable to the white majority." How have you come to those realisations when it comes to your kids?

Well, I think you see it. When my oldest son was maybe three, four years old, he was playing basketball in an indoor playground with some kids that were maybe seven, eight. And some little tiny one or two year old kind of wandered in there, that really should have been in there in the first place, and got bumped into. Like, not by any ill intent, but got bumped into. 

The kid [who did it] kind of said, "Oh, sorry, sorry." And the mom goes, "Well, I guess we're gonna get out of here because these kids are being so aggressive and they're being so violent!" And she just like yells it. 

So, like, everybody turns around to see like, who's being aggressive and violent here, right? It's little boys playing basketball. You know, if something happens, it's intentional, deliberate, they're violent, they're threats, they're a problem. And she tainted every single one of those kids in there with that. They all heard it.

And in that moment, how did you respond?

Well, I was furious, right? I wanted to grab this woman. But you know, obviously that would not be the right thing to do. So I didn't do that. But maybe I should have like, told the manager or something. But I don't know, really, what that would have accomplished. So I just kind of let it go. Because then I'll be the one that's aggressive. So I think I just knew to just keep my mouth shut.

Which sounds like such a tricky thing to balance wanting to fight for your kid, but also the potential optics of the situation, and how that might be read.

We get tone policed all the time. 

One thing I probably heard a thousand times in my life is, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." So, you have to like, think about, first, am I gonna say something? And how am I gonna say it? You have to always make that calculation, right? And a lot of times, it's easier to stop at like, maybe I'm just not gonna say anything. And [then] I don't have to worry about how I say it or what I say, because I just didn't say anything. 

With my kids going through school, I've definitely seen differential punishments given out. I have definitely seen assumptions made. Other kids have said and done things to them. I mean, generally they enjoy school, and they do really well. They're great kids. So...I'm not saying it's a daily thing, but every once in a while there will be something where I question somebody's judgment in that school for allowing that or not doing something about it. 

And that same Facebook post, you had shared that "I didn't speak for my son when I should have. I didn't see danger to him when it was there." What do you wish you would have done and could have done in the face of some of these incidents?

Not put as much faith in institutions. What I want for my kids is for them to have the best life they can have, and they have to do well in school to do that. They have to get a good job, they have to be able to function in this society. So when the school is saying that, "We have to punish your kid," I'm taking good faith that they do...I don't wanna be one of those parents that is always assuming like, my little darling wouldn't do that. I know that my kids aren't perfect, and they might do something wrong. And they should have a consequence for that, because that's good parenting, and that's good learning.

But then when I later find out that there was more to the story, and my kid was being targeted, and my kid was being discriminated against, I guess that completely shook my faith in what the school was doing in the discipline process. I trusted these people that they had my kids best interests at heart and they clearly did not. Only I do, which I now know. 

This is hard to talk about.

Right? Yeah, it is a little hard to talk about.

What's coming up for you?

I think it brings back like me being in school. And it was hard to be in school. So I guess I always felt that with my kids,...I'm not gonna be like that, you know, like, I'm going to support them. And so then I guess I kind of feel like, I did let them down, even though I said I would never do that.  I'm sorry. It's the end of a long day. 

It's okay. Yeah, I do think there's something about this last week that all those memories are coming up. Like, you're talking and I'm thinking about my own school experiences, like so many people have those stories. Where do you put your hope?

Seeing the number of people that came out to this rally, like, just not too far from where we are right now at the Manitoba legislature was really inspiring. I think for a lot of people that there's what 15 to 20,000 people on the streets of Winnipeg, and they were not all Black people. They were people of every race and colour with Black Lives Matter signs, supporting each other being supportive. And I think the fact that we in Canada are now finally talking about race a lot more than we ever had. I think people are starting to get it.

You were at that rally, and they say it was, you know, around 15,000 people, and you were there with your boys. What did that mean for you to be there with them?

We couldn't not be there. Because I think for them to be present at this moment in history, only time will tell, but I do think that 2020 is gonna be a year that people look back on….I think now to be that generation is really exciting,and I wanted them to know that. I wanted them to see how many people were standing up for their lives, were telling them that [they] mattered. How many people...thought they had worth and had value. And so I wanted them to see that...and I think it did make an impression.