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The AIH Transcript for September 27, 2024

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NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Trying to keep their heads above water. The southeastern United States is blasted by another powerful storm. A Florida woman tells us the water rose so quickly yesterday, she and her family were forced to swim out of their home.

CH: More power to him. With his Bloc Québécois throwing its weight around on the parliamentary seesaw of power. We asked party leader Yves-François Blanchet what it would take for him to force a federal election.

NK: Mayor-ily, he rolls along despite a federal indictment. New York Mayor Eric Adams says he will not resign. We'll hear from a city councillor who says that it is in fact, definitely time for him to go.

CH: Music but not music to their ears. A zoning snafu allowed a residential building to be built right next to a beloved Montréal music venue. And now, after noise complaints and court dates La Tulipe has been forced to close its doors.

NK: Goody two shoes. A beat up pair of Air Force ones, maybe an Arkansas couple's meal ticket, provided they're not afraid to look like a couple of heels.

CH: And the full Brontë. A devotee of the scribbling siblings tells us she had tears in her eyes as she watched an 85 year old spelling mistake fixed and the dots placed above the ‘Ë’ at the end of the Brontë name at last. As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that crosses the T's and dots the Ë's.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Helene Florida, Eric Adams Arraignment, Brontë Memorial Dots, Kendrick eBay Shoes

Helene Florida

Guest: Briana Gagnier

CH: This afternoon in Holmes Beach, Florida. The sun was shining and there was a peaceful breeze. A stark difference from last night when Hurricane Helene made landfall as a ferocious Category four storm, killing at least 22 people and leaving a trail of total destruction across the southeast United States. Helene has since weakened to a tropical depression, but a warning of storm surges up to 10 feet high remains in place along Florida's west coast. And communities across the state are reeling from the extent of the damage. Briana Gagnier and her family had to swim out of their home in Holmes Beach last night. That's where we reached her.

NK: Briana, you and your family are back in your home now. What kind of damage are you dealing with?

BRIANA GAGNIER: We are dealing with pretty much complete devastation. The water came up to about my waist, so I'm 5'4'', you know, I don't know, probably about three foot inside. So, everything, pretty much besides, like the kitchen counters are completely, you know, ruined. Unfortunately, the cars are ruined. The refrigerator was on its side. The refrigerator in the garage was on its side. So, unfortunately, we are dealing with a messy situation.

NK: And what about outside your windows, outside your home?

BG: You know, unfortunately, everywhere you look, you see garbage, you see coolers, you see chairs, you see pillows, couches, you name it. You could pretty much build a home with everything that you can see out here.

NK: There's this calm or matter of fact tone in your voice. How would you describe how you're doing right now?

BG: I haven't really had the emotion, to be honest, that I think I should. Besides, you know, in the middle of the night when we had to get out of the house when the water started rushing in, definitely felt the panic. But today has just been very sombre around the island. No residents are allowed back on yet. So right now, we're just dealing with a lot of fire trucks, ambulances, county workers, just people trying to clear roads, tend to those who need medical services since they were not able to come out last night. We were dealing with some fires last night in the midst of it. So, they were trying to put those out, I think feel a little bit numb to what's happened.

NK: Yeah, that's not surprising and completely understandable given everything you're trying to take in and deal with. Where are you and your family staying now?

BG: For the time being, at least the next couple of nights we're going to be home. I mean, there's no power. There's no water. You know, the beds didn't get super wet. We also have a neighbour who has a second story home who said, you know, that we could stay there. At this point, I would just be fine with a blanket on the sidewalk, I think, because it's dry.

NK: You mentioned how this all started unfolding in the middle of the night. Your initial plans were to stay behind and protect your home. What were you preparing in those moments?

BG: Before it got very, very bad. You know, we did sandbag and then by the time it was dark, I had left my room and gone to the kitchen and I felt the water on the floor. And then from one door, it was starting to come in. And then at that point, I shined a light outside and the water was from outside to inside, you know, probably up to like my hip. My parents and I were just there. And then all of a sudden, we heard a big bang. And we kind of looked at each other trying to figure out what that was and realized it was the garage door. And then all of the sudden the water came pouring in. I mean, when I say like Niagara Falls through the door. It's not an exaggeration. And, you know, at that point we all looked at each other and we kind of knew in that moment, okay, this is it. We cannot stay in this house.

NK: And then you started swimming?

BG: Yes. So, we had probably about a minute. I grabbed my wallet; I grabbed the portable charger and the one dog. And I was trying to get my parents, you know, to get the other dog and just, you know, race out of there. At that point, it was like almost two shoulder, probably chest deep. It was very, very chaotic.

NK: How long did you have to swim?

BG: In terms of length, probably 200ft. But it took so long because of the current of that water rushing in from the Gulf of Mexico was just unbelievable. So, it was like you were just going against a super hard current, plus it being deep, plus trying to control the dog and make sure he keeps his head up. And I could not get the chargers wet just again, in that moment, it was just chaotic. And you know, your last thoughts as you're leaving the house is just this is it. You know, everything can be replaced, but you just know the next time you come in the door, it's not looking anything like when you left it.

NK: What do you make of the warnings you were getting ahead of time? I mean, do you think they were appropriate and illustrated how bad it was going to get?

BG: I think they did a great job saying how serious it was going to be. Unfortunately, just people didn't take it seriously. And I've always said that I want to stay unless it's head on. You know, unless it comes straight at us. But they you know, they said it was going to be historic. They said it was going to be bad. I just don't think people took them seriously because it was so far off our coast and we had a similar type of storm last year that did very minimal damage. But, you know, this is the worst this area has seen, I've heard since 1985.

NK: Have you ever personally experienced anything like this?

BG: Not even close. The closest the water got up to, like the front step and it wasn't rushing in. It was just a slow, gradual rise in water and it didn't even come in the house.

NK: And how are you feeling about the response from officials now in the aftermath?

BG: I think they're doing great. You know, they're trying the best they can with trying to assess everything and get everybody to safety and, you know, assess damage of electrical lines down, the water system. Just everything. You know, they've got a lot of rescues for people who stayed that couldn't get out last night.

NK: How long before power will be restored and people will be able to come back? What's your sense of things? How do you even plan for the next days and weeks?

BG: It's very hard, luckily, I know a lot of people who have boats. So, a lot of people today have been coming and grabbing people or bringing supplies by boats and coming, you know, around the inside waterways. It's still pretty rough out there, but it's enough that we can get some water or, you know, gasoline, whatever we need for generators, things like that. You know, it's hard. We've had a couple of storms. We've been without power for two and a half weeks, sometimes a day. It's just, it's so random that you can't really plan unfortunately, and I really don't know if there's a rhyme or reason to the timeframe.

NK: Briana, I'm glad you and your family are doing all right under the circumstances. Thank you for your time.

BG: Thank you so much.

CH: Briana Gagnier had to evacuate her family home last night when Hurricane Helene hit her community. She's in Holmes Beach, Florida.

[Music: Chimes instrumental]

Eric Adams Arraignment

Guest: Tiffany Cabán

CH: This morning, New York Mayor Eric Adams entered a not guilty plea to a federal indictment alleging that he traded influence in return for illegal campaign donations and luxury travel. The charges came amid a flurry of high level resignations, charges filed against two former Fire Chiefs and ongoing investigations. But characteristically, the mayor says he isn't going anywhere.

SOUNDCLIP

ERIC ADAMS: Many may say I should resign because I cannot manage this city while fighting the case. But I have been facing these lies for months since I begin to speak out for all of you. And their investigation started. Yet the city has continued to improve.

CH: Despite those assurances, many are calling for Mr. Adams to resign from congresspeople Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Jerry Nadler. Two current and former state and city officials. The first to make that call was city council member Tiffany Cabán. We reached her from the district she represents in Astoria, Queens.

NK: Councillor Cabán. Mayor Adams, as you know, as you heard again there, says he's not going anywhere and that the way he's dealt with this investigation so far should give New Yorkers faith that he can do the job. While this case progresses, what do you say to him?

TIFFANY CABÁN: I mean, I think it's quite the opposite. It's really clear that, you know, current mayor Eric Adams has been unable to deliver for New Yorkers on an everyday basis. We have seen from the beginning of his administration that he's led with corruption and mismanagement and patronage. Over 15 of his associates have been under investigation. Now we have this formal indictment. It's incredibly distracting. And that's on top of his track record of cutting critical services, empowering our police abuses. All of these things add up to a really, really disruptive and just administration that's in shambles and is not delivering for New Yorkers.

NK: It is clear that you're at odds with Mayor Adams. You're not happy with his performance or what his administration is doing. But is this case an excuse? Are people relying too much on this case because they don't like what he's been doing so far?

TC: Listen, I love that you asked that question. I'm also going to inject a little bit of my prior career experience here. It's very well known that I and lots of others don't agree with this mayor's policies. Do I think we should be cutting budgets to schools, you know, mental health services, homeless services, those things. I don't. We don't agree on those things. But I'm also a former defence attorney, a former public defender here in New York City for over seven years. And it's not really whether or not he is guilty of these criminal charges, these allegations in this moment that is connected to this question of the call to resign, because it's not the relevant question. The question is in this moment, can he effectively govern. And policy decisions aside with the mass exodus of top level officials, with the skeleton crew, the city workforce and now the level of distraction a federal criminal case brings he just can't do the job. This is a really big job. Now, he has said in a statement, hey, I'm just going to pass this off to my attorney, I'm going to put my head down and do the work of the mayor. And as a former defence attorney, I can tell you that's an impossibility. The most important thing in your defence, your attorney can have is your client to participate in your own defence. And because of the nature of these charges and how they're so specific to what the mayor knew and didn't know, right. It's critical that he engages fully with his defence and his defence attorney. Our mayor should be able to put every second [cross talk].

NK: Yeah, he says he can do it. And as a former public defender and you underlined this a moment ago, I'll underline it again, the presumption of innocence is important. It's important to you. So, he might argue, and others may, who support it may argue if he steps aside, it gives the impression that there's guilt here.

TC: I made a career out of protecting our constitutional right, of the presumption of innocence, our constitutional right to due process. But what we're talking about is his privilege to do the job of being the mayor of this city. And that is a very different question than constitutional rights and in criminal prosecutions and what criminal legal system accountability looks like. And I think it's important for people to separate those two things.

NK: You mentioned his defence team here. Mayor Adams' lawyer spoke outside, Alex Spiro spoke outside the courthouse after the hearing today. So, I'll just play for you and of course, our listeners a little bit of what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

ALEX SPIRO: We let the court know that next week we'll be filing a motion to dismiss. We expect these charges to be dismissed. You all remember the Brian Benjamin case, similar shaky theory. That case was dismissed. Same prosecutors, same theory. But the spectacle of this so exciting to them that they wanted to bring another one of these cases. This case isn't even a real case.

NK: He's invoking the cases, our listeners who may not know of New York's former Lieutenant Governor. Who did resign by the charges of wire fraud and bribery were ultimately dismissed in that case. So as a former public defender and someone who understands the law and cares about it. You look at these charges, are you confident the charges against Mayor Adams will stick?

TC: I will say this. I don't have access to all of the evidence that has been compiled, but I have read the 50 plus page indictment. You know, there is some pretty significant receipts in there and text message conversations. And I very much so anticipate that the judge will deny that motion to dismiss and they will continue to litigate this.

NK: And what do you make of the press conference yesterday, Counsellor, when Adams surrounded himself with supporters, you know, members of the clergy who are Black, as well as members of the activist community. What message did that sent to you?

TC: Yeah, I mean, this is a mayor who has time and time again dug his heels in. He has been at odds with our legislature in many significant fights. And just for folks who don't understand sort of the dynamics in New York City, we have, he is our second Black mayor in our city's history. And we are the largest city council in the country, 51 members. And we are majority women, majority women of colour legislature. And so, I'm a Puerto Rican woman. I am, you know, Latina. And I you know; this is a hard and frustrating and angering and disappointing moment across communities of colour because we want to see our people in positions of leadership and succeeded. And I think the message that the mayor was trying to send here was and he said as much that these are sort of racially motivated attacks. And, you know, we're here to say, actually, no, that's not what this is about. And we're here making sure that we can take care of our communities on a daily basis. And I also thought it was interesting that, you know, he didn't have any elected officials flanking him at that press conference. And, you know, we're going to continue to see sort of how he mounts a defence of himself and his character both in the courtroom and outside of it.

NK: Councillor, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

TC: Yeah, thank you.

CH: Tiffany Cabán is the New York City Council member for District 22 in Queens. We reached her in Astoria.

[Music: Electronic instrumental]

Brontë Memorial Dots

Guest: Sharon Wright

CH: On this program, we try to get as close to the stories we tell as possible. We try to talk to the people who are affected firsthand by the issues. They can tell us better than anyone else why these issues matter, which is why right now I'm turning it over to Nil.

NK: You hear me say my name every night. I do like the way it sounds when it is pronounced correctly, but it's really the umlaut, those two dots over the 'O' in Köksal that trip most people up. It is the difference, Chris knows well, between oh and 'O'. [CH: Yes]. Everyone's pretty great about it here. Our listeners who write to us are great about it too. Still can't get it on my Canadian passport, though. That's a fight, I guess, for another day.

CH: Outrageous, though. Canadian government I hope you're listening. And I'm afraid we are going to have to leave it there, Nil. But listen, Sharon right, gets where you're coming from. Recently, she fought to get some 85 year old dot related mistakes fixed on a memorial stone tablet at Poet's Corner in London's Westminster Abbey. Ms. Wright is a journalist, author and editor of the Brontë Society Gazette. That's Bront-ee or Bront-aye, but not Bront. We reached her in Surbiton, England.

NK: Sharon, as someone who has been deeply affected personally by this issue, I thank you for your service.

SHARON WRIGHT: You're welcome.

NK: Let's go back to this plaque when it was in a state that you and others were not happy about. What was wrong with it?

SW: For 35 years, the plaque has had the spelling wrong of the three Brontë sisters, and actually no one else has ever complained until I came along in January.

NK: I can tell you are very proud of your complaint.

SW: I am. Because it matters doesn't it. Well, you know. [NK: Yes]. How you spell Your name matters. That is your identity. That is, you. And what's been a bit surprising to me is how many conversations I've had to have about it. I said well, they're not Bront, they're Brontë and that was their name. We have all three signatures. That was their names.

NK: How did it go so long? How were these dots forgotten in the first place?

SW: Well, that's the question, isn't it. When I saw it and I thought, right, I'm not having this. So, I went and did some research in the Abbey archives and I looked all the correspondence from 1939 and the president, the Brontë Society had written the inscription instruction with all the diaeresis, I'm just going to say dot. But between that and appearing in the Poets Corner, they disappeared. And I said, What's happened? We don't know. We know that there were dropped off by the surveyor at the time, Sir Charles Pearce, but we don't know why. It doesn't really matter because this is just a happy ending, isn't it now?

NK: It is. And I love seeing the photograph of the perfectly, you know, circular dots put over the 'Ës'. Now, our listeners just heard me once again railing about the importance of umlauts, how much I love them. This is different. This is not an umlaut. So, in names like Brontë or Chloë, the two dots suggested two syllables. Correct.

SW: That's it, they just denote two syllables. So instead of saying Bront, which is what they read until yesterday, it's Bront-ee or Bront-aye, depending on how you say it. But it's two syllables and that's what the diaeresis does. But the thing is, if you go onto any English dictionary and they're describing the diaeresis, the example they always give is Brontë [laughter] like was in sort of weird cartoon or a gotcha. I was looking around thinking surely, surely, I am not the first person to say, you spelled three of our greatest writers names, wrong. But apparently, I was.

NK: And so how much work did it take? You know, so did you just go up to an attendant there that day and say, What's going on?

SW: No, I wrote to the Dean of Westminster, very nice man. He wrote back the next morning and said, I'm sure we can correct this. And then yesterday morning, before the visitors came in, I was there with two people from the Brontë Society. We were a bit teary; I have to say.

NK: Do you, did you love their work as well?

SW: The Brontë's? Yes, absolutely. I'm the editor of the Brontë Society Gazette. I also wrote the first biography of Mrs. Brontë, the mother of the Brontë's. It being, again, pretty much ignored for 200 years, like they were found under a bush or something. [laughter]

NK: This is. Yeah. This is a multilayered fight for you. It's a feminist fight. It's a literature fight. And it's...

SW: Women. Women's names even now is a big deal, isn't it? But back then, you know, they had to fight for everything that to write under sort of ambiguous pseudonyms. And then, you know, they didn't see their name on their own book. You know, Emily and Anne never even saw a good review of their masterpieces. So here we are celebrating them and spelling the name right. [laughter].

NK: That's pretty great. I love it. And we want to make sure we pronounce their name correctly as well. Not just the two syllables, because there are different pronunciations out there. What is the 100 per cent correct way to say their last name?

SW: Well, I wouldn't like to give a definitive, but I'm from Bradford like them. And I would say Bront-ee as if it was an 'I'. But some people said Bront-aye, as if it's, you know, an accent, so long as it's two syllables. But we know that the people of Haworth were the Parsonage is in West Yorkshire would have said Brontë, because the man who made Emily Brontë's coffin when he wrote in his order book and he wrote Emily Brontë with an 'I' so, he wrote it phonetically. And I think Brontë is correct. But then as a Yorkshireman, we always think we're right, frankly. [laughter]

NK: Well, I mean, I'm inclined to trust you on this one, given all the work you've done, how do you think the sisters would feel?

SW: Well, we were discussing this yesterday. We think Charlotte would be absolutely cockapoo and probably Anne would be too. But Emily was also awkward one so, I think she would have been sneakingly pleased, but probably wouldn't have let on you know.

NK: I don't know what that first word you said means.

SW: Was it?

NK: Well, you said the reaction.

SW: Chuffed.

NK: Chuffed. Did you say chuffed? I thought you said something else or that's what it means.

SW: I don't know it's been a long day, but it just means pleased.

NK: All right. I'm having so many...

SW: I always think about Murdoch Mysteries, which is one of my favourite programs. You've got a lot of Yorkshire people in that.

NK: Sharon, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

SW: Can you tell me how you pronounce your name again and properly?

NK: First name is Nil. But Nil is okay. [SW: Yeah]. And Köksal is my last name. The 'Ö' with the umlaut is like an 'OE', but Köksal. I was okay. I can live with that. But I like the way I say it.

SW: You have to fight to get your name...

NK: You sure do. And I appreciate that you do. I appreciate that you do.

SW: It's ridiculous because that is your name.

NK: I'm just gonna play you saying this every time someone challenges me, every time I'm just going to say here, Sharon says.

SW: I don't throw the word mansplaining around. I really don't but...

NK: I kind of do. Yeah.

SW: Well, I was having this conversation with two people who remain nameless, and I just, I said, are you mansplaining the Brontë to me? No, no, no.

NK: [laugh] How dare they? How dare they challenge you? I hope to meet you in person someday. Thank you.

SW: I'd love to. Yeah, well, thank you for having me on. And I salute your lovely name.

NK: Thank you, Sharon. I salute you.

CH: I salute you both. That was the editor of the Brontë Society Gazette, Sharon Wright in Surbiton, England.

[Music: classical instrumental]

Kendrick eBay Shoes

CH: This seems like a good opportunity for me to apologize to the person who bought the horse from me on eBay. I'm not sorry I accepted your bid of 24 dollars. I really, really had to move that horse. I am sorry that you paid for the horse, which I named 'Apollo Steed'. And that when I learned he had appeared in season 14 of Heartland, I cancelled the sale and put 'Apollo Steed' back up on eBay for 4.6 million dollars. A price I did not get. So, I apologies to you, the buyer and eBay, where you're not actually allowed to sell horses and Heartland, whose horse I accidentally tried to sell. And most of all to 'Apollo Steed' himself. Billy Lingo and Darla Wilson know where I was coming from, though. They sell shoes on eBay, including, not long ago, a pair of slightly worn black Air Force Ones which had fetched 70 dollars.

SOUNDCLIP

DARLA WILSON: What happened was I sold the shoes. And I said alright, I sold a pair of shoes. So, I started, I've got them, box them up, printed the label. And all of a sudden, my phone was blown up.

CH: That is Darla Wilson of North Little Rock, Arkansas, talking to KTHV. And here's the reason her phone was blowing up.

SOUNDCLIP

Kendrick Lamar singing untitled song.

CH: That's Kendrick Lamar with a song he posted on Instagram. It has no official title. It was just posted with a photo. A photo, for some reason only Kendrick Lamar knows, of slightly worn black Air Force Ones, the ones that Darla Wilson and Billie Lingo had just sold for 70 bucks. Well, if you go to Darla and Billy's eBay page, you'll see that they cancelled that sale. They're now auctioning off those shoes and they have set the starting bid at five thousand dollars. As Billy told KTHV.

SOUNDCLIP

BILLY LINGO: We had an opportunity put in force. And I'm not a greedy person. You know, I got to buy it now for a hundred thousand, I'll buy it now for 75 thousand. I know that's kind of, you know, like probably not going to happen, but it could.

CH: It's hard to blame them. It's just fell into their laps like a sort of eBay-us ex machina. And if they sell, they could be living on a shoestring budget.

[Music: Jazzy instrumental]

Part 2: Yves-François Blanchet, Métis National Chief, David Eby Wasp, La Tulipe Protests

Yves-François Blanchet

Guest: Yves-François Blanchet

CH: Yves-François Blanchet may not have brought the Liberal government down this week, but he is not saying Justin Trudeau is out of the woods. The Bloc Québécois leader doesn't get to decide whether there will be an election on his own, of course, but The breakup of the NDP supply and confidence agreement with the Liberals does mean the Bloc has regained its share of the balance of power. And after stealing a seat from the Liberals in a Montréal byelection just last week, it appears they might have more to win and less to lose than some of their rivals. We reached Bloc Québécois leader Yves-François Blanchet in Vaudreuil.

NK: Yves-François Blanchet, I wonder how you're enjoying this newfound power.

YVES FRANÇOIS BLANCHET: I am not certain I have so much new power because and we are starting to see that the NDP might keep supporting at no cost the Liberals. So, we have a political influence that we did not have before. But it's not so much an indication about how the votes might happen in the House of Commons in the coming weeks.

NK: You've in the past, just in September, compared the situation in Ottawa right now to a four way game of chicken. It's a vivid example for our listeners. You are threatening now to potentially push for an election if two bills are not passed. The deadline that you've set is October 29th. Are you actually ready to force an election?

YFB: Yeah. What I would say is that having an election is not in itself the issue. People in Quebec do not so much want an election. Whatever Mr. Poilievre might say, I believe that a majority of people in Quebec do not want an election because they know that the Prime Minister will be either Mr. Poilievre or Mr. Trudeau and in Quebec none of the two is so much appreciated. And the Bloc Québécois will, of course not be the next government. They might choose to have more MPs from the Bloc Québécois which would protect Quebec somehow or represent Quebec better. But they are not in a hurry to go into election. However, I believe they would understand that this is where we are now and that it might be the time to go. The thresholds that will give us that information is how the Liberals will act on the demands that I have made which have been chosen to be most reasonable.

NK: Not everyone agrees that these are good ideas. One of the bills just for our listeners that you want passed would require a multibillion dollar top up to old age security. One person who has come out speaking against this, and there are others. UBC professor and youth advocacy group founder Paul Kershaw, has said older Canadians are already getting an unfair number of tax dollars compared to younger people. And he went further to accuse you of trying to hold the Trudeau government, quote, "hostage". What would you say to Professor Kershaw and others who disagree with what you're doing and say it's about getting votes for you?

YFB: I do not base my thinking on what some experts with their own opinions might say about it. People will make their own opinion. I have heard a lot of things. One of the most often objections is the fact that this would cost three billion dollars a year. But I will remind everybody that each year the federal government, the Liberals, with the full support of the Conservatives, gives between 10 and 13 billion dollars to the oil and gas industry and undirectly to their friends, the bankers in Toronto. And nobody says a word. Of course, the oil and gas industry does not need 13 billion dollars a year or 10 billion dollars a year, but nobody says nothing. But when something between 500 thousand and 600 thousand people have seen their power to buy, I'm not sure what's the translation of that...

NK: Buying power.

YFB: Buying power reduced each year because there's been no indexation on their income.

NK: Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland has said talks on this are underway. How would you describe how those talks are going so far?

YFB: There hasn't been much talks, but there there's no need for much talks. This is not something we want to negotiate. We have been very precise and the Liberals are experts in the way of gaining time and having a coffee and saying you are their friend. And then doing nothing. What we ask for is absolutely crystal clear. And either this is it or this is nothing. And if it is nothing, we will start negotiating or discussing with the Conservatives and the NDP to see if there's a way to offer the opportunity to Quebeckers and Canadians to have a new parliament elected whatever comes out of it. I'm not so confident that the NDP would dance with us about that one. But if they don't want to simply disappear from the political scene because they have no more personality, no more courage, no more program, no more nothing. If they want to survive as a party, they should start thinking about going into elections very rapidly.

NK: Let me ask you just before we let you go, sir, you voted against Pierre Poilievre and the Conservative non-confidence motion this week. We know that, Pierre Poilievre responded in an interview with our colleagues at Radio Canada yesterday, saying that you and what he calls your quote "Bloc/ Liberal are propping up the Trudeau government and abandoning the interests of Quebeckers". So, this is a new slogan he is putting on you now, a new label. He has now introduced a new non-confidence motion. What is your message for Pierre Poilievre right now?

YFB: He completely knows what I think about what he says and what he does.

NK: We don't though, tell us.

YFB: Let's make it short, Mr. Poilievre, as no program. He said nothing about what he wants to do or the way he wants to do it. He wants to convince Canadians that because they are tired of Justin Trudeau, they should see that Pierre Poilievre will be Justin Trudeau instead of Justin Trudeau. And that's about it. He wants to be Prime Minister at the place of the present Prime Minister and says nothing.

NK: Yves-François Blanchet, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

YFB: It's been a pleasure.

CH: Yves-François Blanchet is the leader of the Bloc Québécois, we reached him in Vaudreuil.

[Music: Jazzy instrumental]

Métis National Chief

CH: When Cassidy Caron became the president of the Métis National Council three years ago at 29, she made history as its youngest leader ever. During her time as president, she travelled to the Vatican to press the Pope for a papal apology for residential schools. She represented the Métis Nation at the funeral for Queen Elizabeth and attended the coronation of King Charles. And on Sunday, the eve of the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation. Ms. Caron will step down from her role to spend more time with her family, including a baby who's on the way. Before leaving, she spoke with the CBC's Olivia Stefanovich about what she dealt with as a young woman in a position of power.

SOUNDCLIP

CASSIDY CARON: I absolutely have faced, you know, misogyny and ageism throughout the three years that I served in this term. Honestly, from both the Métis Community, the Métis Nation itself. With the systems that have been ingrained within the way that we govern our people, but also, you know, within the federal system as well. And representing on this national level, there is a sense that, you know as a young woman I don't have the experience to do this work. And, you know, I've been told directly to my face, you know, you're young, you don't have the experience. But it's not necessarily about having the experience in every facet of every piece of work that we do. It's about building a strong team alongside of you who can do the work with you. I've always seen my role as the president, as, you know, a convenor, a facilitator, someone who just brings more people along with us. We're stronger when we can add more voices to the table, more diverse voices to the table and shape the future based on what our citizens want. And I'm speaking both for the Métis Nation, but for Canada as well. We need to have those diverse voices at the table supporting the decisions that are being made, having their voices heard. Otherwise, you know, we carry on status quo and that doesn't always work. You know, times are changing. Times are evolving. We need to make sure that we're representative of our country, of our nation, of Canada and the Métis Nation, and ensuring that we create, you know, safe spaces for women in politics, for young people, in politics, for all kinds of people to be having their voice at the table.

CH: That was the outgoing president of the Métis National Council, Cassidy Caron, speaking with the CBC's Olivia Stefanovich.

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David Eby Wasp

CH: Canadian politics can be a dangerous business, especially if you're a wasp or a bee. The apiarists in the audience will remember the moment a couple of Augusts ago when Ontario's progressive conservative premier Doug Ford swallowed a bee at a press conference. As troubling as that moment was. We are going to replay that now.

SOUNDCLIP

DOUG FORD: Not coming from the government per se, but the Premier. It's coming from the health sector. [coughing] Holy Christ. I just swallowed a bee. Christ, I knew that little bugger... No, I'm okay. He's buzzing in there. Man, he went right down the hatch.

CH: Well, B.C.'s NDP leader David Eby was not about to be outdone. Yesterday Mr. Eby was out campaigning for re-election when it appeared there might be something in his shirt. Here's what happened next.

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DAVID EBY: And so, we're making sure that we're getting this stuff built. We're making sure that we're doing this. We supported Translink with 800 million dollars over the last. That was a bug. [laughter] It was a bee [laughter]. I'm fine. We supported Translink with 800 million dollars over the last two years. I got to get this bee. There it is. There it is.

REPORTER: This doesn't count as a question, but how's the bee, are you okay?

DAVID EBY: I think, I think it was fatal for the bee. [R: Okay]. The bee is not going to make it no.

CH: That was B.C. NDP leader David Eby being stunned by what turned out to be a wasp. Yesterday while he was campaigning for re-election. The wasp didn't make it.

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La Tulipe Protests

Guest: Patrick Watson

CH: All kinds of performers have played inside La Tulipe. Bu t last night, hundreds of musicians, music lovers and supporters gathered outside the historic Montréal music venue to protest its sudden closure. Earlier this week, La Tulipe cancelled all its upcoming events after Quebec's Court of Appeal ordered it to prevent any noise from being heard inside or outside an adjacent residential building. La Tulipe used to own that building but sold it in 2016. And even though it was zoned for commercial use, the city mistakenly approved its residential development. Patrick Watson is one of dozens of artists who signed an open letter in support of La Tulipe calling on the city to intervene. We reached him in Montréal.

NK: Patrick, I was looking at the letter that you and others have written, and you say in that that the news about La Tulipe, quote, outrages and worries us, end quote. Worry, I think some would understand. Outrage, where does that come from?

PATRICK WATSON: It's just that there's been so many clubs that have closed in the city. Outrage is like okay, for translation is one thing. It's just it's like once you do that, I mean, you have to imagine Montréal has always been somewhat known as a cultural centre, right? With lots of music in the arts. Right. You have the Jazz Fest, the whole identity like somewhat still revolves around music and the arts to some degree, you know? So, if you have a city that has a reputation for kind of like giving you Leonard Cohen, like [inaudible] these people don't come to cities without venues. If there's no venues, you can't create this kind of talent.

NK: And you've described it. You've described La Tulipe as a jewel on that cultural scene, right?

PW: I think the big problem with La Tulipe is the precedence. It's a very old music venue, right. So if you have like, it's one thing when you have like a newer establishing, it's a lot, you know, But if you have like a theatre that has a large history and that the shows are selling well and it's part of the cultural identity of the city, and then you have one resident who can take that away. But you're not, it's not about the venue. It's like you have to imagine what is this city without music. And if you close all the venues, what is Montréal? You know, like think about all the things that's come from the city musically, it's a very strong city, you know. And it's a really strange thing to ruin when you put so much money into the arts here in Quebec. Yet there's no ground for artists to grow in so they can put all the money they want in the world, but without venues, what's the point?

NK: Do you remember the first time you performed there?

PW: Yeah, I performed with Fiest there for the first time. To be honest, I opened up for Feist, it was a pretty magical concert, but I think that La Tulipe is like, it's kind of like there's been loads of little clubs that have also closed and those are the worst because those are the ones where you actually can't have a Leonard Cohen or [inaudible] or any of these things without smaller venues to actually build a language with the audience. So, once you get rid of that, if you put all your money into the big Jazz Fest spot, you can't create new artists without having a place where they can do their thing, you know? It's the bottom line.

NK: In this open letter, you and the other signatories write, quote, By placing individuality above the collective. The Quebec Court of Appeals seems to demonstrate an indifference to our reality as cultural workers, unquote. At the same time, as, you know, housing shortages across the country are also a reality. So, what would you say to those who ask, why should a music venue take precedence over housing?

PW: I think they have the same common enemy. To be honest, you have a developing real estate that's taking like a core of a city that is, you know, somewhat sometimes it's been proving to make beautiful things and that aspect, that's really lovely. But there's a point where you gentrify a city where nobody can afford the rent, you can't play music, you just can't make noise because everybody wants to live in the suburbs in the middle of a city. I think they have the same common enemy. It's a question of like if you're developing a city like Toronto and Montréal, is like really important... Like Canada as a country, we need a cultural identity. You know, it's still an important element of like being a citizen. And you have like live music where people meet and play music or develop a language, and music is essential into having an identity. And if you close all these venues, you're just the Internet, which means you're just the whole worlds algorithm, no longer have a local element. Nor do you have a place where an artist can grow, so you can grow your own talent, you know? So, it's really problematic in a sense where it's a very simple..., if you gentrify city past the point where nobody can afford the rents. And then you can't play art there. And what was the point of living in the city in the first place? You live in a city to be culturally, like be in the mix of a city where you see arts and music, you see lots of different people. The idea of living in a city is like dealing with people that are different than you. And if you want something that's controlled environments, well, that's why you have the suburbs, you know?

NK: Yesterday, the Borough Council announced plans to amend its noise bylaw to allow showrooms, bars and cultural establishments to make some noise as long as their decibel levels aren't too high and they don't make excessive noise. Do you think that will be enough to help La Tulipe stay open?

PW: I don't know the decibels. Like, you know, I've played in countries where they have like the board shuts off at a certain decibel. You know what I mean? Where there's, like, a noise complaint. I can tell you that. I'll go play concerts in these cities. But in these cities, there's no artists that come from those cities. They can't develop artists. There's not a fertile ground like... I don't know. I guess the question for me to you or the Canadians is like, do you want to have Leonard Cohen's and Neil Young's or not? If that's not important, then it's fine.

NK: But is there a happy medium? I mean, is there, you know, a certain time that...

PW: The happy medium is, it's like there's a place where you live called the suburbs, where you like, have exactly the world you designed. You have to understand city is a compromise. When you live in a city, if you don't compromise the city cannot function properly. The idea of living in city is everybody lives in space and we're all doing our best, right? But if you have a cultural place that's super important, historically speaking, and then one guy wants to close it down, which will affect like a lot of people, that whole neighbourhood, all the restaurants like it's a huge... I'll give example, [inaudible] for example, had just one construction point, like where I live in the studio and it was like shops and shops, like the streets are busy, there's cafes everywhere. And then they did construction, not really their fault they had to do it. Some of the venues shut down the street is still not recovered. There's still empty shops in the window. You can't... It's all interconnected, but you can't have an unreasonable noise levels from entertainment places in the city. If you move to the city, you're moving to the city.

NK: What do you think La Tulipe's chances are at this point of staying open?

PW: Oh, it's going to stay open because you have to understand it's a music city, right? Like if they don't stay open, the Project Montréal will not be voted, like it's a cultural centre. Half our money comes from like Jazz Fest and tourism as part of like also other things. But it's also a huge part of the idea of Montréal. Like the musicians will fight, you know, like they already did, like a huge rally in front of the guy's house. Imagine we're doing free concerts in front of his house until it ends. You can't... There's a ground you can't go past, once you pass that grounds... And I think the idea or what the idea of this city, I can't speak for Toronto because I'm not from Toronto, but the cultural sector has to win in Montréal for it to be Montréal, because that's the point of it. It's not a stock market, not a business trading city. We're a cultural city with interesting universities, like when people come to university here it's because they want to have an experience about culture and life. We're like half European like that's the whole idea of a city without that's what's the point. If I go to Mexico City right now. [NK: Yes]. It's like it's flourishing is they have no noise. The city's like it's almost more interesting in New York now. So, there is a price to pay to gentrification that I think it's a pretty high cost everybody has to realize.

NK: Patrick Thank you.

PW: No problem.

CH: Patrick Watson is a singer songwriter and one of dozens who've signed an open letter in support of the music venue La Tulipe. He's in Montréal.

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CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC Listen App. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after Your World Tonight.

NK: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on As It Happens on our website, cbc.ca/aih. I'm Nil Köksal.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

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The AIH Transcript For September 27, 2024

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