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The AIH Transcript for September 13, 2024

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KOKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Two people are dead after a series of attacks in Kingston, Ontario. Our guest says residents of the encampment where it all happened or traumatized enough before the mayor called for their community to be torn down.

CH: The in-crowd. The president of Belarus has freed dozens of political prisoners. But an Opposition spokesperson warns many more are still behind bars and their lives are still at risk.

NK: A second opinion at the 11th hour. Nova Scotia declares domestic violence is an epidemic. Thanks to a conversation between the premier and our guest moments before the vote.

CH: The anti-gravity of the situation. Their eight day space trip was abruptly extended to eight months. Still, when they spoke to the press today, the two astronauts stuck on the ISS seemed pretty buoyant.

NK: You, the owner of We the People. A significant copy of the U.S. Constitution is up for auction. And if you're rich, you're winning bid will combine your love of history and your desire to get old documents framed into a more perfect union.

CH: And hot over the collar. A chance encounter with a stranger thrusts an Irishman into the Swiss Mullet Cup. Now he's at the top of the rankings and hopes to win by a hair do. As It Happens, the Friday edition, radio that assumes eventually he will have to change the locks.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Kingston Encampment Attacks, N.S. Domestic Violence Epidemic, David Eby Carbon Tax, Irish Mullet Competitor

Kingston Encampment Attacks

Guest: John Done

CH: A 47 year old man is facing two charges of second degree murder and one charge of attempted murder after a series of brutal attacks near a homeless encampment and safe injection site in Kingston, Ontario, in broad daylight. Witnesses say the suspect attacked one woman and two men with a hammer. And after a six hour standoff with police, he was arrested. Now people are saying the injection site should be closed and all nearby encampments should be taken down. And one of the people saying so is the mayor of Kingston. John Done is the executive director of the Kingston Community Legal Clinic. He represented encampment residents last year when the city was trying to evict people from a local park. We reached him in Kingston, Ontario.

NK: John, given everything that has happened, you know, what are people who you've represented people there in the community. What are they telling you?

JOHN DONE: The people at the encampment are traumatized by the events yesterday where two people died and one person is hospitalized. But I hear also from other people in the community who support people who are homeless and people who suffer from addictions. And these are the people who were affected by Mayor Paterson's comments.

NK: Just to bring our listeners up to speed. Kingston's mayor, Bryan Paterson, issued a statement saying that the encampment should be cleared and for the supervised injection site to be shut down. What kind of an impact do those comments have at this stage on the people living there and using that facility from where you sit?

JD: My concern is I'm less familiar with what happened then I am with the potential outcome of misguided and early remarks that Mayor Paterson has made before the investigation has been completed that threaten the well-being and health of people who reside in the homeless encampment and people who use the adjacent building, locally known as the Integrated Care Hub, which provides a warm space and health and social services for people who are homeless, many of whom have addictions and which includes Kingston's safe injection site.

NK: That hub is closed at the moment. Is that right, John?

JD: It has closed because of the events. And I'm not sure when it's going to open again. But what I'm hoping is that the events that occurred yesterday won't lead to a permanent closure in the same way that many safe injection sites throughout the province of Ontario have been closed.

NK: Encampment residents, as you've said, and understandably, are feeling bottled and unsafe. Others in the community, though, you know, the mayor is not alone in thinking the way he's thinking, as you well know. One grocery store owner told CBC News the area around the supervised injection site has been getting, quote, "increasingly disruptive". What do you want to say to other people in Kingston who say they feel unsafe because of the encampment?

JD: Well, I would say this, that the safe injection site and the integrated care hub and the encampment, that's not what is, that isn't what is causing all of these problems. These are proxies for other problems. The safe injection site is really a proxy for the fact that we have people with addictions. The homeless encampment is a proxy for the fact that we have homeless people. And so, by removing the safe injection site, that doesn't mean that we're not going to have people with addictions to fentanyl and the chaos and social problems that arise from that. It could make it worse because it's also removing a site that gives counselling and advice and a medical response when people have overdoses. So, it would make it worse.

NK: What could be done based on your experience and the folks you spoken to make them safer?

JD: I have to be very humble about coming up with solutions. I don't have them. But neither does Mayor Paterson and certainly whatever he has suggested, that isn't the solution. It would make things worse. So, what we're asking is that Mayor Paterson pause his comments. And wait for the evidence and at least not make things worse. That's what he has threatened to do.

NK: What's your sense of things, though? Do you think he's going to change what he's saying and his position on this?

JD: I don't expect him to change how he feels. But I do expect the city of Kingston, which has Mayor Paterson at the head, to not act, act responsibly. The court has already said that the people living in the encampment have a constitutional right to sleep there and to remain there at night. And that arose because of an application for constitutional question that we filed. Right now, it appears that much of that encampment, no one is there. And we expect that after the police complete their investigation, the city not interfere with our, with the encampment residents’ constitutional rights.

NK: Earlier this summer in August, we were reporting on the group of Ontario big city mayors, you know, pushing the province for more funding and to create a specific ministry to deal with homelessness and the overdose crisis. Did you think at that point? I'm sure you heard about that push as well, that you might be getting some solutions to what is unfolding in Kingston and so many other places?

JD: This is an intractable problem or at least a slow problem. But there are many people who are looking at the problems of homelessness. And while we don't know if homelessness has anything to do with the tragedies that took place yesterday, there are solutions which of course, involves building more places for people to live and building places that meet the needs of people who have addictions. And that's not going to happen for a while. It's going to take time and money and public commitment. So, I'm hopeful that things will change and things will get better, but I don't expect it to happen soon.

NK: John, thank you for your time.

JD: And thank you for your interest in this story.

CH: John Done is the executive director of the Kingston Community Legal Clinic. He's in Kingston, Ontario.

[Music: Mythical chimes instrumental]

N.S. Domestic Violence Epidemic

Guest: Jennifer Murray

CH: Something just happened that is rare in Canadian politics or politics anywhere. Legislation passed with all party support in just under ten minutes. Yesterday, Nova Scotia's legislature adopted a bill to declare domestic violence an epidemic in the province. It's a recommendation to all levels of government resulting from the public inquiry into the 2020 mass shooting there. The commission heard that the gunman had had a history of domestic violence and had assaulted his spouse right before going on to kill 22 people. But the bill almost didn't pass until a last minute conversation between Premier Tim Houston and four women who've been advocating for it. Jennifer Murray is one of those women. She's the Atlantic Regional Director of the private sector union Unifor. We reached her in Halifax.

NK: Jennifer, when you wrapped up that conversation with the premier, did you think "what happened", yesterday when the legislature passed this bill? Did you think in that moment that that was going to happen?

JENNIFER MURRAY: I did not think that it was going to happen yesterday. However, we did still have tremendous hope that the Premier would do the right thing. And you know, certainly made them aware that we were going to continue knocking on his door until it got passed. But we never thought in a million years that it was going to pass yesterday.

NK: And then it did. What was that like?

JM: What a joyful moment. I mean, the feeling in that room, it's very difficult to explain. You know, in that moment when it didn't matter which party you belong to, there was no colour in that room. It was about people coming together and supporting people experiencing domestic violence. And it was truly a joyful, proud moment, proud of my union and proud of the people that were there with us in that room and proud of the Nova Scotia government for making this happen. And, you know, I mean, I think it talks a lot about not only joy, but just the tremendous hope that that there's a different and better world that we can build here.

NK: When did you and your colleagues realize that you needed to have that conversation with the Priemer?

JM: We got there, you know, very optimistic and very happy to be there to see the bill presented and tabled. And then we sat through question period. And then on our way out of question period, the Premier was talking to the media and the statements that the Premier was making was not in support of making this bill legislation. You know, he was talking about he couldn't understand why this needed to be legislated and why we needed legislation when there was actions already being done. And in that moment, I think we felt pretty defeated and quite upset. And so, we took the opportunity as the Premier walked by to say, I think we need to talk. And we introduced ourselves and one of our advocates, Koren Beaman who is a survivor and spoke from, truly from her heart and expressed her disappointment in the Premier. Basically, you know, asked some really tough questions. What if this was your family member also letting him know you have an opportunity to be a true leader across this country right now and be the first one to actually pass this legislation and demonstrate to people who are living in these horrible situations, demonstrate that government is, does really care and really wants to see change.

NK: It wasn't until a little bit later, though, that he told you all that he had changed his mind.

JM: That's right. We left the legislature and as we were, you know, dividing in the parking lot and saying our goodbyes, the Premier came out and asked us if we could chat and let us know that, you know, he absolutely wants to see change and is working and advocating and taking great action. And how would we feel if he was to go into the legislature and pass this bill today?

NK: And what did you do in that moment?

JM: Took a breath. You know, I mean, it's a huge moment when government realizes their power and uses it for something so incredibly good. And, you know, yesterday was about hope, but it was also about a whole lot of courage. And, you know, it takes, when we think about intimate partner violence and escaping and fleeing that, it takes a great deal of courage. But it took a great deal of courage for the NDP to introduce it in the first place. And for our, you know, our very own Koren Beaman to talk about her stories of survival. And, you know, it takes courage for a Premier who's already said in front of the media that he doesn't support legislation to come back to us and say, I absolutely am going to support this.

NK: What will this legislation actually be able to do and change?

JM: We absolutely recognize that this first step had to happen where now we have it legislated; no action can actually take place. We're hopeful that now policies can be changed and laws can be changed that will give anyone experiencing domestic violence more power. We're looking at it even in the longer term, like let's build or, you know, let's make sure that there's safe resources for people who are fleeing to go to, let's increase domestic violence leave pay. Let's have a look at transitional housing and making that affordable. And what does that look like? Like the sky's the limit. But what we have to also start focusing on, in my opinion and in Unifor's opinion is that we have to start focusing on how do we end domestic violence.

NK: It's a rare and powerful thing that unfolded. And unfolded after a lot of work very quickly in the end. But what does it signal to you that it took the premier hearing those stories? I mean, certainly those kinds of stories have been reported there, but elsewhere, what do you make of the fact that it still took that to make it happen?

JM: Well, I think you know what I mean I'm a big believer in listening to people's stories. And sometimes stories can be, can actually put a face to the story itself and to the experience. Listen, like we didn't want to be out criticizing the Premier for not taking action, that's not what this bill was ever about. This bill was about, you know, creating a space to make even greater impact and take bolder and bigger actions. So, it wasn't about a criticism, but I do believe, you know, sometimes we need to remind men and, you know, people in government, women and so on that this is everybody's issue. This isn't only a women's issue; this is everybody's issue. It's disheartening sometimes that it has to take somebodies actual lived experience to really bring to light the severity and crisis that we're in. But, you know, sometimes that's what it takes. And if that's what it took in this situation, I'll tell you, it's going to change lives for people in Nova Scotia, there's no doubt. And I hope that other premiers in other provinces understand what has happened here and step up and table these bills themselves.

NK: Jennifer, thank you for your time.

JM: Thank you very much.

CH: Jennifer Murray is the Atlantic Regional Director of Unifor. She's in Halifax.

[Music: Jazz instrumental]

David Eby Carbon Tax

CH: This week, British Columbia's NDP government made a surprising announcement with a new promise to voters in the upcoming provincial election. Premier David Eby says he will scrap the province's carbon tax and shift the financial burden to large polluters if the feds drop their requirement for the tax. Critics, including the B.C. Greens, have subsequently questioned the party's commitment to action on climate change. And today, Premier Eby responded.

SOUNDCLIP

DAVID EBY: Yeah, our position on the carbon tax is actually the same as the Green Party's position. Our climate plan was developed with the Green Party in the minority Parliament. We are aligned on the need for climate action and I hope we're aligned in being incredibly alarmed about this. The idea that someone who is a climate denier who says that we're carbon beings, therefore carbon can't be pollution and that climate change is a lie and wants to take climate science textbooks out of our classrooms so that kids can't learn about climate change. That person might potentially be a premier of British Columbia.

STEPHEN QUINN: John Rustad has made it clear. He said he does believe in climate change. He just does not believe that it is the crisis that you believe it is.

DE: That's not true, Stephen. He attended the Globe and Mail editorial board where he called climate change a lie.

SQ: Well, he's told us...

DE: He has committed to removing climate science textbooks from schools because he believes that they are influencing and setting an agenda for kids that it's not right. He did an interview with Jordan Peterson where he said, "we're carbon beings and therefore carbon can't be pollution". It's like saying, Well, I have teeth so I can't get bitten by a dog. It's ridiculous. His position on climate change and we cannot let him resile from it or pretend that that's not his position because he's repeated it so many times.

SQ: In April, the Conservative Party of British Columbia wasn't really a thing. You would be facing, BC United in a rather divided Right in this election. There's a pretty good chance that you could have sailed comfortably between the two. That has completely changed now. How much of this is politics?

DE: Many British Columbia have seen divided Right Wing votes in the lead up to an election before, and they always come together and unify. I think the surprise was that in the backroom deals of downtown Vancouver with far Right billionaires, that a deal was struck to come together around extremist views, around culture war views.

CH: B.C. Premier David Eby speaking to Stephen Quinn on the Early Edition this morning.

[Music: Techno instrumental]

Irish Mullet Competitor

Guest: Trevor Hyland

CH: Some celebrity success stories start with a chance encounter, and it's a pretty fun fantasy. You're just walking down the street one day, you bump into some mover and/or shaker and pow, next thing you know, you're the kind of star who calls Martin Scorsese, 'Marty'. It's a romantic idea, but it rarely happens in real life. However, it did sort of happen to Trevor Hyland. Mr. Hyland is from Mayo, Ireland. About a year ago, he moved to Switzerland, and one day, just after completing a half marathon in Martigny, he bumped into a stranger who had some big ideas for Mr. Hyland and his hair. We reached Trevor Hyland in Visp, Switzerland.

NK: So, Trevor, you just finished that race. A stranger walks up to you. What did they say?

TREVOR HYLAND: Yeah. So, like, a stranger just walks right up to me. He's from Switzerland, and he's a big smile on his face, pointing up my hair, super enthusiastic. And he's speaking French. And honestly, I haven't spoken French since high school, so I had no clue what he was saying. So, confused. And then eventually his girlfriend realizes. So, she comes over and she starts translating the whole thing. And she's basically like, he's telling you you're perfect for this competition that's happening in the same town that I ran the half marathon, Martigny. And she was like, oh you're perfect. You look just like the bottle. And I honestly thought they were joking. I was like, this can't be real. I was like, this sounds crazy.

NK: The logo, they're saying, You look like the logo for the competition.

TH: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. They're like the logo of a beer. And I was like the logo of a beer. I was like, This is crazy. And yeah, So basically then he finally pulls up his phone, shows me a photo of it. I'm like, my God, I actually look just like the guy on the can. And I was, I was stunned. I was like, What the hell? And they're like, Yeah, there's a mullet competition happening here. You have to enter. You're going to win. And like, you know, it's sponsored by this beer company. So, I was like. So, I went home then that day and I was translating the whole website because it was French and yeah. And then I saw that like, they're giving a year's supply of beer. And I was like, that's enough for me to sign up. [laughter]

NK: You're sold. At that moment. So, this mullet competition seems like a pretty big deal and I've seen the logo again, it's not a photograph. It's a logo, as we said, a graphic design. And it does really look like you and your mullet. Certainly, I think many of our listeners know exactly what a mullet also known as a 'short long' looks like yours is, I have to say... I mean, I don't want to sway the competition. I got to keep journalistic integrity intact. But it is quiet, it's quite spectacular. So, describe for our listeners what you look like.

TH: Sure. I mean, look, it's no hockey flow because I know you guys have fantastic mullets. But, how do I even describe it? One of the, one of my friends described it as five hair coats on the one head. [NK: Yeah]. So, the best way I think I can describe it is it's super straightened like, every part of it is straightened. And at the very front there's a fringe that just goes over my eyebrows to my eyes. I can just about see. And the fringe goes around the side. And I also just to mention, I'm like a blonde/ginger It's a debate whether I'm ginger or blonde, but basically, it's fringe at the front, fringe on the sides. And at the very back, it's super straight and all the way down to my neck and to the very end it's just curled up. And also, at the very top, there's little spikes as well.

NK: Yeah, the top is a separate entity. There are several separate entities on your head. Your friends are absolutely right. Why did you want to do that to your hair? You weren't thinking about this competition. Why was that the style you landed on?

TH: No, of course. So, like, like I just started growing a mullet for fun in January or February. And of course, then I was told about the competition in May. And then I was like, okay, sure, I give it a go. And I was going to keep it super quiet. But I was heading home for my sister's wedding, and that's when I was like, oh great. I have a great opportunity in Dublin to meet my barber and get the whole thing set up. I have a great barber in Dublin. Kieran Copley. He, I think it was 3 or 4 hours getting the hair ready. I've never spent, I've only ever spent like 20 minutes getting a haircut. I'll never forget because I was just leaving the hair studio and I was like, meeting some friends for pints in the pub. And he was like, Great, but just be careful you don't go near any open flames because I think he sprayed like a can or a can and a half of Hairspray onto me. So, I was a fire hazard. [chuckles]

NK: I feel like it would have stayed in place even without, I mean, the way it's cut but...

TH: Yeah.

NK: Let's make sure. Let's make sure that it's in the best form.

TH: Exactly.

NK: So yeah, you go from keeping this a secret to everybody finding out in your family. Then you're featured in several Irish news outlets as well. You've been on the radio there. What's the support level like?

TH: The support is it's crazy. It's actually so overwhelming because it's just as Irish people, we get behind anyone who's Irish, it's just been crazy. So, like, yeah, it's everywhere. And the quote at the moment, the hashtag the moment is "Mayor, for Mullet", and I'm from Mayo, it's a place in Ireland and it's just, it's crazy. It's absolutely crazy.

NK: And you are in first place at the moment. Yes?

TH: Yes. So. So unofficially, because we're not supposed to know the votes. But I've been pestering away at the reps and they told me, okay, we're going to tell you after all of the, after all the stuff in Ireland. Yeah, I'm in first place. I don't know how much I don't know if it's a lot or a little but, yeah.

NK: And there still weeks to go in the competition.

TH: Weeks to go. Weeks to go. Yeah. So, it closes on the 26th and they're going to announce the winner on the 27th of September. So, another two weeks or so. So yeah, anything could happen.

NK: You know, I guess you figured the mullet would change your look. Did you think it would kind of change your life?

TH: No. I could tell you right now I never thought, my plan... Like I said, I just had a mullet for fun, and then it just became this. And now I have no idea. I like. Yeah, because it was just for the competition. But I've heard now there's a European Mullet competition. And then, I don't know, maybe there's a world one, maybe I'll be competing against Canada or Australia. I don't know.

NK: I think there is, and I'm pretty sure we've talked about it on this program [cross talk]. There's men's categories. Women's, there's a whole, whole world that you have now been invited into you. What about that stranger and his girlfriend, have you stayed in touch?

TH: No. No, I wish I did. I wish I did because honestly, when they first come up, I was like, this is a joke. I was like, this cannot be real. Like a competition about mullets. But yeah, no, I'll have to try and find them and thank them.

NK: Trevor, I thank you. I'm glad we could speak. Take care.

TH: Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye.

CH: We reached Mullet Competitor Trevor Hyland in Visp, Switzerland.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Part 2: Belarus Political Prisoners, Nichols/Massey/Taylor, Butch And Suni, US Constitution Auction

Belarus Political Prisoners

Guest: Franak Viačorka

CH: The ground between Russia and its neighbours to the west is shifting once again. In Washington today, there were reports that the Biden administration was working to lift restrictions on Ukraine's use of Western supplied cruise missiles to hit targets inside Russia. At the same time, Ukraine continues its counter incursion into Russia's Kursk region. Meanwhile, in Belarus, President Aleksandr Lukashenko, a Russian ally, has released some of the hundreds of political prisoners held in his regime's prisons. Franak Viačorka is a senior adviser to the Belarussian opposition leader, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya. We reached him in Vilnius, Lithuania.

NK: Franak, can you give our listeners a sense of who some of the people who've been released are?

FRANAK VIACORKA: So, we know about the release of 30 people. 30 in August and 30 in July. Most of them had diseases like cancer, some elderly, some young people, but unfortunately no big names among those people. So, we hoped that some political activists or leaders like Maria Kalesnikava will be on the list of release. But it didn't happen, unfortunately.

NK: You mentioned Maria Kalesnikava. What can you tell us about how she's doing? And just for our listeners, she is a prominent opposition figure. How is she doing?

FV: We don't know if she's alive. This is the sad truth. Unfortunately, for more than one year and a half, we haven't heard from her. Only some rumours from prison mates, from people who heard something about her state of health. We know that she lost a lot of weight. She's only 40, 46kg. Right now, I don't know, in American/Canadian weight how much it is. And with her height, of more than one metre 75cm. So, it means she's dying and she's starving and the regime doesn't provide her with medication. And this is the personal revenge of dictator to her because she became the symbol of the revolution of the women's revolution and the dictator doesn't want to release her.

NK: Why do you think Lukashenko has released who he has released? Is this about softening his image or is this about something else?

FV: It's a dirty political game. Before election, so called election, fake election. He wants to improve his image because even his supporters started to doubt his ability to be a leader of the country. And he wanted to show that he's taken care of the people, that he's not so cruel. He doesn't help Putin to kill Ukrainians every single day. So, he released a few dozens of people. But there are one thousand five hundred in prisons. And every single day, 10, 15 people are being detained. They're interrogated, they're tortured, they receive draconian sentences, even those who fled the country. They're also sentenced in absentia. For example, myself, a few months ago, I was sentenced to 20 years in prison. If I cross the border immediately, I will be in jail and they will, I don't know if I will be able to survive this torture chambers.

NK: If that's the strategy. Do you think it will work?

FV: It will help him to survive in the short run. Right now, he doesn't think about longer perspective. He just want to save his presidential post. He doesn't see his life without the power. His power relies right now only on Putin's support. He understands that he lives in the culture when everyone hated him. He lost the elections to Svetlana Tikhanouskaya in 2020, and since then, people didn't change their mind. They want changes. They want to live in democracy and freedom in European Belarus. And Lukashenko is not able to provide that. Instead, he proposes, he offers the war, the cruelty, the terror. And right now, we are feeling how our grandparents were living. And we're feeling in the Stalin, Joseph Stalin times.

NK: And how, Franak, would you say that Ukraine's invasion into Russia's Kursk region might be impacting what Lukashenko is doing?

FV: The success of Ukraine shocked the dictator, shock the whole regime because they believed in the fast victory of Putin in 2022, it didn't happen. Thanks to Ukrainian bravery or thanks to Belarusian partisans as well. And right now, they see how Ukrainians advances, advance in Kursk region. They understand that the situation might change and if Putin will be weakened, dictator Lukashenko will be weakened, too. And this will open the window of opportunity for Belarussian people, for democratic forces to bring changes in our country. The fates of Belarus and Ukraine are intertwined and if Ukraine wins, then Belarus democracy might win, too.

NK: And Maria Kolesnikova's sister is calling on foreign leaders to try to put pressure. What do you want countries such as Canada to do now?

FV: I just spoke with Tatsiana Khomich sister of Maria Kalesnikava here in Vilnius yesterday. She's frustrated. She's worried about life of her sister and she's fighting a lot for her release. Countries like Canada do a lot. Canada imposed sanctions for Lukashenko's regime. Canadian Minister Joly. But also, Prime Minister Trudeau spoke a lot about the repression in Belarus. But unfortunately, this is not enough, yet. We must remind about each political prisoners about Maria Kolesnikova or Ales Bialiatski, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. Every single day. And we must join the efforts with the European Union, the United States, all democratic countries, to put pressure on the regime to force him to release innocent people from jails.

NK: Franak, I thank you for your time.

FV: Thank you.

CH: Franak Viačorka is a senior adviser to the Belarussian opposition leader, Svetlana Tikhanouskaya. We reached him in Vilnius, Lithuania.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Nichols/Massey/Taylor

CH: Breonna Taylor, Tyre Nichols and Sonya Massey were all killed by police. And today, their families called on Congress to act on much needed police reform. They were in Washington, D.C., to take part in the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation's annual legislative conference, and they joined their lawyer, Ben Crump, at a news conference where he laid out the consequences of decades of inaction.

SOUNDCLIP

BEN CRUMP: Police reform in America that had eluded us for decades. We hadn't had systematic police reform in the United States of America since Lyndon Baines Johnson Great Society legislation in the 1960s. We thought after Rodney King was killed, Rodney King was brutalized in the 1980s in Los Angeles. We would get systematic police reform. It did not happen. We thought surely after Michael Brown in Ferguson, "hands up, don't shoot", that we would get systematic police reform in America. It didn't happen. We thought certainly after George Floyd was tortured to death on video during a pandemic and everybody saw it, Congressman, [inaudible] we thought we were going to get police reform in America. It didn't happen. And then after Tyre Nichols was brutally beaten by five police officers. We thought we would get systematic police reform. It didn't happen. And I can only fathom had we got that reform. How many families up here, like Sonya Massey and others, would have been spared their loved one becoming another hashtag. It is an urgent call. An urgent call. How many more exhibits America do we have to give you before we say we have to have some reform of these officers? If we would have had the national registry. Sonya Massey's family would not have lost her just because she was a black woman having a mental health crisis, because that officer who had been in six police departments in four years would not have been on the force and he would not have had the ability with a gun and a badge to shoot Sonya Massey in her face after She said, "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus". We can never take for granted that when a black person in America is killed by a police officer, that they're going to get justice. We can't take it for granted. Y'all, we can't take it for granted. Breonna Taylor. My heart is broken, her mother's heart must be broken in a million pieces [inaudible] shot. In her own home, her body mutilated with bullet holes while she's practically naked in her nightgown. Everybody knows the police lied to get the no knock warrant. Everybody knows they lied. But now we're going to say that that doesn't matter. While Breonna is dead in her grave. It is an urgent call for systematic police reform in America.

CH: That was American civil rights lawyer Ben Crump speaking in Washington today at a news conference with the families of Breonna Taylor, Tyre Nichols and Sonya Massey, all of whom were killed by police.

[Music: Upbeat piano instrumental]

Butch And Suni

CH: Today we finally heard how a couple of professionals are dealing with a surprise extension to their work trip. And we were kind of concerned about them because their work trip was to the International Space Station. Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams are the two NASA's astronauts who went to space in June and were supposed to stay for eight days. Then, thanks to technical failures on Boeing's Starliner, they learned they would actually be staying up there for a bit longer than planned until February 2025. Today, they held a press conference from the east and they were asked if they felt let down by Boeing. Here's Butch Wilmore.

SOUNDCLIP

BUTCH WILMORE: Let down. Absolutely not. Not, never entered my mind. I don't think Suni's either. And until you mention it, it's a fair question. I get it. I can tell you. You know, I thought a lot about this press conference and what I might say, what I wanted to convey. And there's no way to convey every single piece of information that needs to be said to understand a majority of the questions that we might get asked. But I will say this. You know, Suni's got this shirt on, it's got that nice meatball, we call it on it. And that represents something that we stand for as an agency. We go beyond. We do things that are out of the ordinary, and we send humans to space. And yeah, we're here today on the space station. Even today, this operation, this is not easy. NASA does a great job. The people at NASA do a great job of making a lot of things look easy. Going, sending probes beyond the edge of our solar system. Going and getting samples from asteroids, humans in space. And it's a very risky business. And things do not always turn out the way you want. Before we launched. We said we're going to find things. That is the nature of test. Every single test flight, especially a first flight of a spacecraft or an aircraft that has ever occurred, has found issues that [inaudible] just cannot think about. 90 per cent of our training is preparing for the unexpected, and sometimes the actual unexpected goes beyond what you even think that could happen. And that's just the way it goes sometimes, because we are pushing the edges of the envelope in everything that we do. And it is not easy.

SUNI WILLIAMS: We've both been on deployments. We're not surprised when deployments get changed. I mean, our families extended... Our families are used to that as well. So, that's not a humongous surprise, I think like Butch said, this is test. I think before we even flew, we had an interview with a lot of you and it mentioned the same thing that, you know, a test flight means that we're probably going to find some stuff. We've done as much as we can to look at the envelope that we're going to operate in. But this is the first time that we've had humans in space in Starliner. And we did find stuff and, you know, we made the right decisions and we're here. And that's how things go in this business. Like Butch said, it's risky and that's how it goes in the business.

CH: NASA's astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams speaking to the media from the International Space Station.

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US Constitution Auction

Guest: Nan Zander

CH: For well over 200 years. It was hidden away in a dusty filing cabinet on a plantation in North Carolina. A rare copy of the U.S. Constitution printed in 1787, long before the Civil War, when enslaved people still toiled on the grounds of Hayes Farm, where it was locked away. But in 2022, the historic estate was sold and the document finally resurfaced. It's exceedingly rare. It's one of only 100 copies sent to each of the existing U.S. states at the time to be ratified. And this month it's being sold at auction, where it will probably fetch millions. Nan Zander is an auctioneer and fine art specialist with Brunk Auctions. We reached her in Asheville, North Carolina.

NK: Nan, the U.S. Constitution is obviously always a very important document, but what makes this copy in particular special?

NAN ZANDER: I think so many things. Twofold, the specialness of this one and first is the rarity of it. And second is the role that it plays in our history and in the history of democracy, because it is the moment when the Constitution as words on paper, ink on a piece of paper and nothing more, become the voice of the people. This is the moment when the states, i.e. the people of our nation weighed in on this and brought it to life.

NK: And it's one of only eight remaining copies out of 100 that bear an important signature. What can you tell us about that?

NZ: Yes, they have the signature of Charles Thompson, who was the secretary of the Confederate Congress at that time. There might be others we don't know. It is a, but this is the only one in private hands that has come to light that bears Thompson's signature. The others are all in, you know, very well-documented in institutions.

NK: And how was this copy found? Where was it all this time?

NZ: You know, it's a classic auction story, the kind of thing that, you know, keeps us all in business in so many ways. It was the proverbial dusty old file cabinet, you know, locked up room that nobody had been in for a long time. But it was in a beautiful, historic, well-loved seventh generation North Carolina historic home. And the home was being turned over to, acquired by a foundation that would then have the ability, the wherewithal to preserve it with great love and dignity into posterity. And so, the rest of the contents were dispersed. And in fact, the contents of the library at this Edenton Hayes Plantation in Edenton, North Carolina, the contents of the library, which were so important that they were, that the library and its contents were recreated as a whole at the University of North Carolina's Wilson Library. So, it can be seen now, of course, without these few documents in it. They weren't part of what was donated. They were undiscovered. They were, you know, locked away and unknown until a highly respected appraiser that we do a lot of business with on a regular basis found them. He was contacted to deal with the rest of the contents of the estate.

NK: And when you first saw it, I mean, have you with gloves on, I assume? Have you have you touched it? How close have you gotten to it?

NZ: I personally yes, I have touched it.

NK: Can you describe it for our listeners who may not be able to do what you did? And may not get as close as you could.

NZ: Well, yes, it is a what's called a folio. It is a large piece of paper, roughly like 22 inches wide with a fold down the middle printed on four sides. So, it is essentially one long horizontal piece of paper with print on pages one, two, three and four. You know, the fronts and the backs of that folded piece of paper, if that makes sense. It is, you know, a beautifully aged piece of paper at this point. So, it has that rich sort of yellowish colour to it. It's in very good condition for a piece of paper that is this old. What's interesting is, I think, you know, everybody who's ever walked into the National Archives or we're seeing a picture of what we all know in our heads as the Constitution, the great big, beautiful calligraphic script of We the People. This is not that version. This is the simple ratification version. It is, you know, innocent looking, if you will, inconspicuous in a certain sense, it's not that, the version with all the flourishes that when you close your eyes and think about We the People that you see, it's a simple, you know, personal document, if that makes sense.

NK: It absolutely does. How did you make sure that it's an authentic document?

NZ: You know, there are, the same way we do with anything that we sell. I mean, we're in many ways known for our scholarship. And it's very important whenever you're selling something and you're saying that it is 'this', this is what we think this is, you have to do your homework. A reputable auction house or gallery or dealer will do their homework and jump through the hoops that you need to jump through to authenticate something because of the rarity. You know, we've never handled something quite like this because there isn't something quite like this.

NK: Is it true that someone has already bid one million dollars for it?

NZ: Yes, we have a million dollar bid.

NK: But you think you might get more?

NZ: Oh, you know, there really aren't any really perfect comparables. Sometimes when you sell something, it's like real estate. You judge your estimate based on similar things that have sold. But it isn't... There are no comparables. So, we don't know. That said, a convention copy of the Constitutional Convention Printing of the Constitution sold at Sotheby's in 2021 for over 43 million dollars.

NK: You know well, Nan, of course, what a pivotal time it is in U.S. politics. The presidential election coming up very, very soon. Where do you think these documents sit in a time like this? What is their importance?

NZ: You know, it's just, it's such a wonderful reminder to our country, to anybody who hears the story or sees the document that this really is a document that is a living document of the people. And I know that there are interpretations of it. But the bottom line is this is what the people have and we have it to remind us about democracy. This is the cornerstone of our democracy, these words and this moment when it was sent to the people to say, yes.

NK: Nan, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

NZ: Thank you.

CH: Nan Zander is an auctioneer and fine art specialist with Brunk Auctions. She is in Asheville, North Carolina.

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Part 3: B.C. Whale Rescue, Mini Update: Mpox Canadian Vaccines, AI Posthumous Handwriting, Encore: Florida LGBTQ Books Returned, IG Nobels Update

B.C. Whale Rescue

Guest: Paul Cottrell

CH: Paul Cottrell has been part of a lot of whale rescues. He has been saving, lost, trapped and entangled whales for about 15 years. But the rescue his team pulled off last week was a genuine epic. It involved multiple people, two vessels and a drone. And it took four days. But thanks to their efforts, a humpback whale that was entangled in a huge accumulation of fishing gear is now swimming free. Paul Cottrell is a Pacific Marine mammal coordinator with Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and we reached him in Haida Gwaii, B.C.

NK: Paul, it took you and the team four days to rescue this whale in particular. You pulled off another rescue after that. You've certainly been busy. How are you holding up?

PAUL COTTRELL: Oh good. Our team is experienced and really professional and used to kind of certain periods of the year where we're really busy. So, where we are a little tired. But no, it's been a crazy couple of weeks.

NK: Is relief part of the mix of feelings when you're able to pull off these kind of things?

PC: Oh, definitely. I mean, it was it's a roller coaster of emotions. When you see a whale that's so entangled and not even sure you can help it. The one in Hecate Strait where there was over 20 buoys attached and ropes and lines into the flesh. So, it definitely is an emotional roller coaster. And of course, when you're able to free and get all the gear off, it's hard to describe the feeling that the team was just so happy and it's just amazing.

NK: 20 buoys, four days. Just take us through how you all managed to do it over those four days.

PC: Yeah, we were in Prince Rupert, which is the north coast of B.C. and we were up there doing a fin whale necropsy on the Tuesday. And in that afternoon, we had a report, a commercial fisherman was in the Hecate Strait, which is between Haida Gwaii and Prince Rupert, which is open ocean and pretty crazy weather can occur. They observed this poor whale that was struggling and had all this gear attached. So that afternoon we were able to get out and locate the animal and put the satellite tag on so we could relocate. And we started working right away on the Tuesday and removed some gear on Tuesday, more gear on the Wednesday, and then Thursday, a little bit of work, but it was weather day and then we finished it off on Friday. And it was over 50 cuts during that four day period of the lines and ropes and removal of gear and, you know, full day, full action and just being able to see that whale come alive as it took the tension off all that gear and weight and just feeling able to open its mouth. For example, it was sealed shut deep. We really are optimistic it can live on, but we'll be monitoring the animal.

NK: How long had it been tangled up like this?

PC: We don't know how long the animal had been entangled, but it had U.S. commercial crab gear and Canadian crab gear. What happens is when an animal gets entangled and it's towing, it can collect other gear. So that's what we think has happened over likely a couple months, but we don't know for sure and just how deep the penetration of the rope suggests that it had been entangled for quite a while. And we're looking into the gear origins, how long it had been set, where to be set, and all those things we'll hopefully put together in the upcoming weeks.

NK: So, there's an investigation portion of this as well. What happens when you find out all of those details?

PC: Yeah. So, we do follow up with the gear that's removed. We want to look at where the animal became entangled in what type of gear. And then we also look at how this entanglement, if we can progress then in terms of the removal of the gear and the injuries. And we were lucky to have the marine mammal veterinary pathologist with us and he was assessing the injuries. And then we'll be looking at the gear and working back to where the location of that gear was set and how long it's been missing. So, we get an idea of how long this animal's been tangled and hopefully future sightings of this animal. And we did take a DNA sample as well. So hopefully determine if this is a Mexican or Hawaiian humpback. There's two populations on the coast here.

NK: I've seen some of the video of the progress you and your team were making as you tried to free it and work to free it from what it was entangled in. It's so hard to see. It must have been even more difficult to see it in person up close. But how long do you think this whale could have kept going like this? How long could it have survived?

PC: Yeah, I mean, it was it was really horrific, actually, seeing the animal in the... For example, the blowhole there were ropes across the blowhole that had dug in probably 4 to 5 inches. It was so embedded we had to cut either side. So, it probably would have been mortality in the near future. It's hard to know. These animals are extremely robust. The body condition did have [inaudible] and it was becoming an infestation that suggests the body condition was deteriorating. So, there is an indication that the body condition was becoming more emaciated which makes sense if the animal had been feeding for months.

NK: And when you're working to free it, how do you try to keep it calm?

PC: You know, when we're working with the animals our team, we're very careful. It's a very dangerous process. Even though this animal was all wrapped up, it's still very active and, you know, weighs 30, 40 tons and can go through behavioural changes in terms of agitation. That's part of the reason why it took four days. We had to make sure it was safe for us as rescuers but also see for the animal. We had to get in very close to do a lot of the cuts using these specialized tools that we have and flyaway blades that we used. And we really used all of the tools in our toolbox for this rescue because it was so complicated.

NK: Clearly, your experienced, you've seen many a whale in this situation. Just last night on our show, we had a guest, a researcher in Washington state, talking about the impact that underwater noise pollution is having on whales, their ability to forage in particular. So how would you assess the depth of the trouble whales are in right now?

PC: Yeah, I think in British Columbia it's actually a good news bad news. We're seeing humpbacks move into inshore waters where they haven't inhabited since commercial whaling really decimated the population. So, we're seeing humpback observations of numbers that we've never seen in recent history. But it also is we're seeing more gear interactions because there's more animals. So that's kind of the other side. And there are pilot projects not only in Canada but around the world looking at how to reduce the number of vertical and horizontal lines in the water. Looking at the feasibility and how that could potentially be incorporated because any horizontal a vertical line in the water there is that potential for entanglement.

NK: Paul I'm glad we could speak. Thank you for your time.

PC: Thank you.

CH: Paul Cottrell is a Pacific Marine mammal coordinator with Fisheries and Oceans Canada. And for four days last week, he led the rescue of a tangled humpback whale off the coast of B.C. We reached him in Haida Gwaii.

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Mini Update: Mpox Canadian Vaccines

CH: On yesterday's program, we told you that Canada was reportedly considering donating up to two hundred thousand doses of mpox vaccines to help fight the outbreak in Africa. Last month, the World Health Organization declared mpox a global health emergency for the second time in two years. And other G7 countries have already donated vaccines. They started arriving in Africa this month. Nil talked to Adam Houston, the medical policy and advocacy adviser for Doctors Without Borders, about what more Canada needs to do to help curb the outbreak. And here's part of what he told Nil.

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ADAM HOUSTON: You know, the time for considering is over. The time to act is now. And, you know, unfortunately, this has been a bit of a pattern for Canada in recent years, where Canada has been a bit of a follower, not a leader on vaccine equity. We saw this certainly with Covid-19, where Canada was one of the last major countries to even commit to sharing its excess doses. And, you know, we saw this as far back as H1N1, where Canada was also conspicuously absent from early initiatives to share vital and scarce resources where they're most needed.

CH: We asked Global Affairs Canada to comment, and now it has. It sent a statement that confirms Canada will send up to two hundred thousand doses of the Imvamune vaccine from Canada's existing supply to Congo and neighbouring countries. The statement says, quote, "Canada is committed to health security in Africa and vaccine equity to ensure vaccines reach those who need them most". Unquote.

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AI Posthumous Handwriting

Guest: Benj Edwards

CH: How do you feel about the idea of getting a note from someone you loved in their handwriting after they've died? I don't mean discovering an old note that they left for you. I mean receiving a brand new note in their exact idiosyncratic hand that was generated using artificial intelligence. I'm guessing some of you find that idea baffling or creepy. But before you dismiss it entirely, let me introduce you to Benj Edwards. He's a journalist who covers A.I. and who used it to resurrect his late father's handwriting using a tool called Flux, which he trained to replicate his father's distinctive all caps script from old journals and personal notes. We reached Benj Edwards in Raleigh, North Carolina.

NK: Benj, as our listeners just heard, you have pieces of your father's writing in his old journals. Why did you want more?

BENJ EDWARDS: Well, I loved my dad. He was an engineer; an electronics engineer for probably 50 years before he died in 2013. And he taught me to love technology, so I thought it would be great, a great way to, you know, honour him by training an AI model to reproduce his handwriting.

NK: How accurately does this AI tool replicate his script?

BE: It's very accurate. I could not tell the difference if you just put one of these generations in front of me. And I didn't know it was, you know, AI.

NK: What does it feel like to see that?

BE: I don't know. It's sort of shocking, but also amazing and sort of delightful. You know, it's a mixture of emotions. It feels like I can make my dad talk to me again a little bit, even though I know it's not him. Just because part of my brain recognizes that handwriting and it feels like hearing his voice again. And so, that part of it is comforting to me because I loved him. And I think it's great. I always appreciated his handwriting. And then when I, you know, started to apply the style to other things that had nothing to do with my dad, like signs and neon signs and chalkboards and, you know, billboards and things like that. It was just fun to see that handwriting writ large in different places, you know?

NK: What kinds of things are you getting it to write?

BE: I have some jokes on there, just like, "this is a rather large billboard", [laughter] you know, just in his handwriting. And, you know, I did one that was written in clouds, which is amazing. So, it says "Benj, hey, Benj. Look up". Like as if it was my dad talking to me. And you see a picture of his handwriting as wispy clouds with the sun shining through them, which is one of the cool things you can do with an AI model that you couldn't do with a font, for example.

NK: Right, that's quite moving. And you wrote in your piece that you felt ready to do this in a way because obviously you still miss your dad, but you felt like you've grieved. But does this conjure things up again at the same time?

BE: No, it's not really, it's not upsetting at all to me because I have, you know, fully come to peace with my dad's passing a long time ago. It was you know; it was unfortunate and I miss him. But it's not like I want to bring him back from beyond the grave exactly. It's just more of like, you know, paying respect to him in an interesting technological way because we were both, we were both nerds. You know, he was a nerd. I'm a nerd. He taught me all about this. And I think it's just a way for a piece of him to live on. [NK: Yeah]. My hope is that, you know, I think over 80 people have downloaded the model already and they're experimenting with it. So, if any of those people incorporate it into future models or use it for any purpose, I mean, a piece of my dad is kind of out there in the world and I think that's pretty cool.

NK: The thread, the Reddit thread where you found this that you can tinker with this model, which is called Flux. The person who initially posted it who figured out that you could use it to replicate handwriting, took the post down, as I understand it, because they were concerned that it might be misused. Obviously, there's other ethical concerns that people could use this technology to commit fraud. How did you deal with all of that?

BE: Yeah, I am worried about the implications. It turns out that in researching this, you know, AI cloning handwriting is not new. It's actually kind of old. But the ease of doing it now with an AI generator is new, but there are still significant limitations, which is that it's a picture on a piece, on a computer. It's not like ink on paper, for example.

NK: Maybe that's a good thing for now.

BE: Yeah, it's a good thing for now. It stumbles on lots of words. You know, it can glitch on letters and it can insert words that you didn't want it to insert sometimes, it's just like a hallucination they call it in AI. So, at the moment, I am not personally too worried about document forgeries, although it's possible and it was possible before. So, you know, I thought raising awareness at the same time as, you know, doing this experiment would be, you know, a worthy endeavour.

NK: So, you're taking pages of his old journals, and then what do you do? How do you put them in to this tool?

BE: Yeah. So, I have a flatbed scanner that I've used for a long time and I just scanned the pages and then I annotated them with captions. So just transcribe exactly what he wrote into text The AI model can read and then it associates that caption with you know, the picture. And it's smart enough to make the inference there that these little squiggles are those letters which is amazing. And then you can use it to write just about anything.

NK: I was reading in your piece, you learned something about why your dad wrote in this particular way from your mom. What did she tell you?

BE: Yeah, it's fascinating. The whole upper case writing was really one of my, you know, reasons for doing this is because I noticed my dad was an electronics engineer like I mentioned, his friends were engineers, they all wrote like this. They would label their floppy disks or their whatever, their notes, like in all caps, not cursive script or anything like that. And I wondered why. And so, it turns out that a lot of engineers learned a style from drafting on paper that probably comes from architecture or other drafting where it's just more legible, easy to read if you use all caps. And so, my mom said, I mention this to my mom and she's like, you know, he didn't have a lot of formal training. He did go to college for a few years, but he was mostly trained by a mentor at an electronics company in the 60s when he was a teenager. And this, he wanted to imitate his mentor's writing because he didn't like his own handwriting. So, in a way, it's also a tribute to his mentor, I guess.

NK: And you hadn't heard that story before?

BE: No, I didn't know that.

NK: How does your mother feel about seeing her, her late husband's writing again like this?

BE: She thinks it's cool. She I sent her some examples and she said it's pretty good. And like, I texted her some, you know, right after I did it and after that, you know, she's just busy doing other stuff and didn't even think about any anymore. So, it wasn't a big deal to her, I guess.

NK: Benj, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

BE: Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

CH: Benj Edwards is an AI reporter with Ars Technica. We reached him in Raleigh, North Carolina.

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Encore: Florida LGBTQ Books Returned

CH: 'And Tango Makes Three' is a children's book based on the true story of two male penguins at the Central Park Zoo, who famously hatched an egg and raised a chick named Tango. Since it was published in 2005, co-authors and married couple Peter Parnell and Justin Richardson have been fighting constantly to keep their book on shelves because of complaints from conservative groups who claim the depiction of a same sex penguin couple is inappropriate. And that's the reason kids aren't able to read 'And Tango Makes Three' in multiple school districts across Florida. But today, that changed in Nassau County after a settlement agreement concluded their book and 35 other banned books contain no obscene material and have educational value for students of all ages. And As It Happens, spoke to Peter Parnell and Justin Richardson in June 2023, when the co-authors, along with a group of students, launched a lawsuit against a different Florida school district that had restricted access to 'And Tango Makes Three' under the state's Parental Rights in Education Act, also known as the 'Don't Say Gay' law. Here's their conversation with Nil from our archives.

SOUNDCLIP

NK: Justin, I'll start with you. This certainly is not the first time that, that religious groups are politicians have tried to get your book banned. Is there something that's different this time?

JUSTIN RICHARDSON: Yes, this time is unique. You know, Tango has the reputation of having been banned in the past. But actually, it's only been challenged in the United States in the past. And each time it's been challenged, there's been a process in which the book is reviewed by experts. And community members have an opportunity to share their thoughts. And the school district will get consultations, maybe legal consultations. And in every prior case, that process resulted in the school choosing to return our book to the library. This is the very first time that that process concluded with the school deciding to restrict access to Tango.

NK: And Peter, did that surprise you when it was actually pulled from the shelves?

PETER PARNELL: Well, yes. I mean, it surprised us just in that because of these previous challenges. And now, with the rise of more and more books being pulled and under review, the fact that this was even a more severe measure was a surprise and meant, you know, that it needed, it needed some, some kind of response.

NK: Beyond being a surprise, did it hurt?

PP: You know, it's always hurt to, to an extent. I mean, this, the book has had such joy around it. And from when it was first published, there has always been people who we've met and an audience that's been very responsive. And at the same time, we are aware of those who were disgruntled. And so, I think it's a mixed thing, wouldn't you say, Justin?

JR: Well, I'd say, you know, yes, it's disturbing. But you know. Peter and I, [chuckle] we're grownups. We live in New York City. We're going to be okay. [NK chuckles] But I think our hearts go out to the kids in Lake County who have two dads or have two moms or were adopted or are themselves becoming aware that they're gay or lesbian. This kind of an act by a school, it can be devastating to a child in that condition. You know, I mean, I think we, when kids recognize themselves and their families in the stories they love, they learn that they're valued and that there's a place for them in our world. And a banning of a book like Tango, as simple and gentle as it is, teaches them something very different. And I think something that, as a psychiatrist, I'm quite concerned about because I know that it can be damaging.

NK: Justin, some of our listeners may remember you're on As It Happens, nearly 15 years ago now, talking about this book when it first came out. I just found it online and listened to the audio version. Peter, for those who haven't heard the story, though. They haven't seen this book. Tell us a little bit about ‘And Tango Makes Three’.

PP: ‘And Tango Makes Three’ is based on a true story. Roy and Silo are two penguins who were in the Central Park Zoo. And it was noticed by the zookeeper at the time, Rob Gramzay, that Roy and Silo pair-bonded, that is, they became a couple. And he also observed, as did the other zookeepers there, that when the time came to, for couples to hatch an egg, Roy and Silo built a nest of stones, and they tried to hatch a rock. And Rob Gramzay, in noticing this, came up with an idea. Justin, maybe you want to stay what that is, what that was.

JR: The story, yeah, the story tells of the moment when Rob Gramzay, took an egg from another penguin couple's nest and gave it to Roy and Silo to hatch. As we explain in the author's note, there was a couple, Betty and Porky, who sometimes laid two eggs, sometimes laid only one egg. But each time they laid two eggs; they were unable to hatch both of them. You know, you can imagine, it's a nest of rocks. And it's challenging to hatch two eggs and keep them both warm at the same time. And Rob Gramzay knew that they were not going to be able to care for both of these eggs. And he knew that Roy and Silo were, you know, very eagerly wanting one. So, he took Betty and Porky's, one of their eggs, and he gave it to Roy and Silo. And as the story says, they knew just what to do. And this pair incubated this egg and hatched it and raised it. And Tango became the first penguin in the Central Park Zoo to have two dads.

NK: When you first wrote this book, did either of you imagine that you would still be fighting to keep it on the shelves all of these years later?

PP: Yeah, I don't know if I'd say all of these years later. When the book came out, it was met with a great response. And then, about a year or a year and a half after the book was published, there began to be this pushback. And so, certainly, I didn't think it would be, given so much progress that we've made, given so much in the last number of years in which we have achieved an acceptance as LGBTQIA+ people. I don't know that I would have said almost 20 years later that there would be this happening to the book.

NK: Justin, Peter, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

BOTH: Thank you so much.

CH: Co-authors of the children's book 'And Tango Makes Three', Peter Parnell and Justin Richardson talking to Nil in June 2023. Their book and 35 others will return to some school libraries in Florida today.

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IG Nobels Update

CH: If you were listening to last night's show, you may have heard us celebrating a celebration of some otherwise uncelebrated heroes of science. Researchers whose work may have been dismissed as laughable or at the very least, odd, but whose efforts were rewarded for being odd or laughable with an Ig Nobel. The prizes are handed out annually by the Annals of Improbable Research, and they are discussed annually on our program, including yesterday when we heard from past winner Kees Moeliker.

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KEES MOELIKER: I got this message from the Ig Nobel Committee that I'd won. And I was kind of surprised. I said, shouldn't this call come from Stockholm, Sweden? But I accepted it, of course. The criteria to win this prize is first laugh and then think. And that's something to make more people interested in science and technology in general. And I'm a big fan of good science communication. So, I decided that this is a good thing. So, I accepted the prize with joy. And it's really changed my life in a positive way.

CH: That's Kees Moeliker, the European bureau chief for the Annals of Improbable Research, talking to Nil on last night's show ahead of the bestowal of this year's Ig Nobels. And as Kees also explained to Nil, that ceremony is kind of improbable itself and includes interruptions from an eight year old known as 'Miss Sweety Poo', who will cut you off without hesitation if your acceptance speech exceeds 60 seconds, which a few of last night's speeches did, including this one from Takanori Takebe, whose team won the physiology prize for discovering that, quote, "Many mammals are capable of breathing through their anus", unquote.

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TAKANORI TAKEBE: First and foremost, thank you so much for believing the potential of anus for breathing potential. [crowd laughing and clapping] So in Japan, we have a very interesting creature called loaches that has a capacity to suck up oxygen from the butts. So why we can't do that? So that was a question we started. So, let me show how it works with this, you know, extraordinary colleagues. So, we start from, you know, making oxygenated liquids and then preparing that beforehand. Then, you know, this very talented professor is in the surgery in prominent university in Japan. These are a few professors, by the way, and operating every day. But he just, you know, helping to pick model first and try to inject [more laughing from crowd] thank you so much. So, loaches, as if loaches, they are injecting lots of bubbles in the butt and they eventually pump it up, enjoying the extraordinary capacity to suck up the oxygen, eventually leading to improvements. And [inaudible] your conditions. Okay. [Ms. Sweetie Poo interrupts] now he survived. We started clinical trials. [Crowed loudly clapping].

CH: Ms. Sweety Poo there. And Takanori Takebe of the Cincinnati Children's Hospital and Tokyo Medical and Dental University accepting the Ig Nobel for physiology last night alongside a visual demonstration by some lab coat wearing, balloon carrying colleagues. And for more on the Prize, our coverage and all of this year's winners, you can visit our website, CBC.ca/aih.

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CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC Listen App. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after Your World Tonight.

NK: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on As It Happens on our website, cbc.ca/aih. I'm Nil Köksal.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

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The AIH Transcript For September 13, 2024

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