Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2024

The AIH Transcript for October 01, 2024

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KOKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: The sky is falling. Iran launches nearly 200 high powered missiles at Israel. A man in Tel Aviv describes the sound of explosions outside his bomb shelter and how he feels about what is coming next.

CH: Sharpening their axis. As the Mideast conflict lurches ever closer to a wider regional war. An expert gives us some insight into what Iran's leaders might be thinking.

NK: Rhetorical questions. A former friend of JD Vance says the man who will be facing Tim Walz tonight in the U.S. vice presidential debate is not the man they once knew and is not a man voters should send to the White House.

CH: The doctor won't see you now. A shocking number of Canadians are struggling without a primary care physician. Now, a trio of senators say they have a diagnosis that could improve the prognosis.

NK: Fighting a losing battle. A Democrat in North Carolina is running for the state Senate in a race she has said from the start she will never win. It's a form of protest against gerrymandering.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Iran Attacks Israel / Iran Engagement, VP Debate

Iran Attacks Israel / Iran Engagement

Guests: Ronen Koehler and Ali Vaez

SOUNDCLIP

Air raid sirens in Tel Aviv.

CH: Sound of air raid sirens in Tel Aviv after Iran fired dozens of missiles into Israel. The attack comes as the fighting between Israel and Iran's proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, continues to escalate. And less than 24 hours after Israel announced a ground invasion in Southern Lebanon. Streaks of light could be seen in the sky over Tel Aviv and Jerusalem as Israel's defence systems shot down the ballistic missiles and people took shelter. Iran took responsibility for the attack and warned there will be another if Israel retaliates, which the IDF has sworn to do. Ronen Koehler is a former Israeli submarine captain. He's now a tech consultant and he lives in Tel Aviv.

NK: Ronen, at this hour, I wonder how you're feeling in the aftermath of the strikes.

RONEN KOEHLER: I'd say it's a complicated, you know, mixed feelings because, you know, we were just attacked by, I think the number is close to 200 ballistic missiles from Iran. That's, I don't think there's anything as close to that in modern history. And the goal was to have, I don't know, thousands of us killed. In that sense, it's big. And on the other hand, I'd say we were well prepared, our military and defence systems were well-prepared. We were actually told that there were all the indications that it's going to be this evening. So, I'd say we waited, but to be honest, we didn't wait kind of in the shelter, you know, life was as normal as it gets until the minute that the phones started chirping, then sent everybody to shelters.

NK: There was a message warning everyone about what to do and what could come. Can you take us through, Ronen, just how the day developed, You know, how much warning did you have to get to your shelter before the strikes began?

RK: So, around noontime there were already news that all indications are that this is going to happen tonight, but it felt not in an alarming way. I was outside, I'd say probably a less than an hour before the attack. And I you know; I got a haircut and did some shopping. There was, I'd say that way there was a high level of alert, but not high level of anxiety.

NK: Why do you think that is?

RK: That's a good question. It's almost like the level of trust we have in our defence system together, together is somehow normalized reality. It's almost a, it's a normalized reality that, yes, things like that are going to happen. And, you know, we've been in almost a year now since October 7th in kind of, kind of a war that that is very, very active around the borders. And inside Israel, it's almost nonexistent and then like probably two hours before the attack, there was the terrorist attack in Jaffa, which is seven kilometres south of where I live in southern Tel Aviv. And there were two terrorists there with rifles they killed, I think, 6 or 7 people already. So that was like two hours before that. Not something that happens a lot. I don't remember when was the last time it happened? Probably a couple of years. And yes, it was all over the news that there's an attack in Jaffa. Two tourists in Jaffa that were killed by the police. And then when the phone started chirping, we just okay, let's go to the shelter.

NK: What was it like once you were in the shelter? What could you see and hear? How long did you have to hunker down there?

RK: So, we stayed there for probably an hour, maybe an hour and a half. My whole family, we were all home. My son is 22. He's an officer in the IDF. He came home and said, well, they might call me, but he came home. He's an intelligence officer. My two daughters were home. My wife just came, she's a physician in the hospital, so she just came home. So, we were all together with the dog sitting there watching, watching the news over our phones. There were a lot of dramatically more than we are used to of explosions. And we heard a lot of explosions, but nothing really bigger than that. There was some news about a few hits in northern Tel Aviv, which we now know that were not direct hits, but actually pieces of missiles. These are ballistic missiles so, they are intercepted very, very high, I'd say 80 to 90km. So, when the intercepted pieces of these large missiles fall over, all over. So apparently there were a few pieces of, you know, these 200 missiles that were spread all over Israel and some fell close by. But these are not missiles that hit more like high, high velocity pieces of the missile that came from the sky and fell in very hot and very fast. And it's still so, there are small craters. But other than that, there were no casualties.

NK: And as we talk about, Ronen, the escalation and how things have shifted, how did you, how would you compare today to Iran's attacks back in April?

RK: In April they fired, I think, 300 different missiles but very few ballistic missiles, which are big and fast and powerful. Most of the things that were fired were either cruise missiles, which are much, much slower and significantly smaller and different drones, which are by far smaller and they fall slower. So, all of these were intercepted, but most of the interceptions were you know, it sounds strange, but easier than intercepting ballistic missiles. It's not easy.

NK: Just personally for you, is safe the word you would use to describe how you're feeling tonight, what words would you use just before you go to sleep?

RK: I feel totally safe, yes. I feel totally safe. And I feel safe. I feel my family is safe. I feel absolutely safe. Yes.

NK: Ronen, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

RK: Thank you. And good night.

NK: Good night.

CH: Ronen Koehler is a tech consultant and a former Israeli submarine captain. He's in Tel Aviv. Iran says it fired that barrage of ballistic missiles at Israel today in retaliation for the killing of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah. And Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh, as well as officials from Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps. The order to attack was reportedly given by the country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who's walking a very fine line. He's trying to respond to the recent assassinations of the leaders of Iran's proxies without provoking a regional war that could draw in the United States and lead to the toppling of his autocratic regime. Ali Vaez is the Iran project director with the International Crisis Group think tank. We reached him in Washington.

NK: Ali, I'll begin where our last guest left off. You know, he said he felt safe going to sleep tonight, that his country was well prepared. People took shelter. The Iron Dome and David's Sling defence systems did what they needed to do. What do you think Iran's goal was here?

ALI VAEZ: Well, you know, Iranians had reached that stage, I think, after suffering multiple setbacks in the past few weeks. The decapitation of the tip of the spear of Iran's network of influence in the region, Hezbollah, all the setbacks that Hamas has suffered. The killing of a senior Iranian general in the same attack that killed Nasrallah, the head of Hezbollah. All of that together had amounted to too much losses for Iran to sit on, and it was afraid that it would signal weakness to Israel that would only invite Israel to increase the pressure on Iran and its allies in the region and might eventually even come after Iran directly. And it wanted to change the balance of power, change the momentum and basically signal to Israel that enough is enough.

NK: Iran's president posted on social media just a few hours before the conversation we're having writing, quote, This is just part of our capability. Do not get into a confrontation with Iran, unquote. Is this going to deter further hostilities or just escalate things further, provoke more?

AV: I think it's going to be the latter. I'm afraid Israel is certainly going to respond and it's going to respond in a way that would be definitely harsher than what it did in April, which was a pinpoint attack against a missile defence battery in the middle of Iran. This time, Israel is probably going to target either IRGC Revolutionary Guards facilities or critical infrastructure, if not potentially even the Iranian nuclear facilities. And from that point on, we would be in a back and forth that is very likely to result in an all-out regional conflagration that everybody knew if the war in Gaza would continue, would eventually expand and result in. But I'm afraid nobody had enough of diplomatic initiative or courage to try to stop it. And unfortunately, we are now on the brink of a disaster.

NK: Is there any going back, any way to turn it around?

AV: There is only one way that this could be unplugged at this moment, and that is for the United States, which is the only party that has leverage over Israel to hold Israel back, especially in a scenario that there haven't been any significant casualties on the Israeli side. And at that point on, I think there is a deal already on the table for a cease fire in Gaza and the release of hostages. There is a deal on the table for Hezbollah forces being pushed back from Israeli border. It might not be the total victory that Israel had in mind, but it puts Israel in a much more safe and secure position, than continuing with this gamble of escalating tensions further with Iran, let's just imagine some of the possible scenarios. If the Revolutionary Guards facilities are hit. They are certainly going to hit back at some point in this ping pong of missiles and rockets and bombs. There will be Israeli casualties. And at that moment, of course, Israel would have to respond harder and we would be in a fully-fledged conflict between Iran and Israel. At some point, the U.S. would have to get in the middle of the way. There are 700 thousand Americans who live in Israel, and the U.S. is committed to Israel's defence. And if that results in American casualties and fatalities, just a few weeks prior to the presidential elections in the U.S., President Biden would have no choice other than basically getting in the way and entering into this conflict to blood Iran's nose. And in a scenario like that, why not also take out Iran's nuclear facilities, go all the way? And as it's often said in Washington, finish the job. But the problem is that would very likely push Iran to withdraw from the Non-Proliferation Treaty, kick out the U.N. inspectors and then decide to pursue nuclear weapons, because obviously all the other means of deterrence have not delivered. Just a few weeks before the U.S. elections, we would have a major nuclear crisis on our hands. So, there is no way, if this continues, that it would end in anything other than grief for all sides.

NK: You mentioned the elections, and I'm glad you did, because certainly all sides know where the U.S. is in terms of that election and are behaving accordingly likely, right. Waiting to see how it, what they can do in the interim and then waiting to see how everything shakes out and who is going to be in the White House. How much of a factor is, we're talking, you know, just about a month or so now before that election.

AV: Well, it is a huge factor. And part of, I think, the calculus of Israel continuing its cycle of escalation and taking it to a new level is not just because the other side, Iran and its allies have been weaker than expected and have ended up on the back foot. But the reality is that there is also an opportunity, I think, for Netanyahu to try to shape the outcome of U.S. elections again, in the run up to the elections, if the region is even in more chaos if there are American casualties, this is going to look very bad on Democrats. None of this was happening at this scale under President Trump, who would then portray himself not as the president of chaos, but as the strongman who can bring this situation under control. Of course, with Trump back in office, Netanyahu would have much more manoeuvring space. So, this might be part of the calculus. I think the Iranians would have preferred to wait until November 5th to see who the next U.S. president is and then strategize based on that. But they were faced they were compelled to take action now. And probably they're also calculating that because the Biden administration doesn't want escalation in the region, it would be able to exert more pressure on Israel. But that might also turn out to be wishful thinking, as the pattern over the past 11 months has clearly demonstrated.

NK: Ali, thank you for your time.

AV: Always a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

CH: Ali Vaez is the Iran Project director with the International Crisis Group. We reached him in Washington.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

VP Debate

Guest: Sofia Nelson

CH: Tonight in New York City. Tim Walz, the Democratic governor of Minnesota, will square off against JD Vance, a Republican senator from Ohio, in the vice presidential debate. And the VP debate isn't typically that significant, but this is not a typical election. And given that the rhetoric started out heated and has just gotten hotter, things are expected to get fiery. Sofia Nelson will be watching closely. They are a lawyer who went to law school with JD Vance and were once friends with him, but now say he's nothing like he once was. We reached Sofia Nelson in Detroit earlier today.

NK: Sofia, I am curious to get your thoughts on what might come in the debate tonight, but I do want to go back a bit and get a sense of how your friendship with JD Vance first started.

SOFIA NELSON: I met JD in the fall of 2010. We were both first year students at Yale Law School, and we had been put in the same cohort. So, we were going to orientation together and we took all of our first year courses together.

NK: And what was he like as a person, as a friend, as a classmate?

SN: Very different from the person he is today. You know, he was he was funny. He was kind. He was curious. He was definitely open to a broad swath of ideas. And, you know, I considered him fairly socially progressive at the time. He was certainly still identified as a conservative. But he talked about things like gay marriage as a culture war distraction that wasn't productive versus who he is today, leaning into the culture wars and trying to divide Americans. It's a real shame because I think it's a disservice to the country to, especially if you're in a position of power, to engage in name calling and bullying. And then, as we've seen recently with the situation in Springfield, Ohio, knowingly lying about a group of people in a way that damages the whole community, but also serves to dehumanize Haitian immigrants. And that's very dangerous. And it's just sad.

NK: You were transitioning when you knew JD Vance. He was there for that. What was his response during that time?

SN: I mean, I entered law school with, you know, a transmasculine identity and presented that way. But I did have gender confirming, affirming surgery in 2012. And, you know, JD was not necessarily familiar with that concept, but he did express, you know, that he supported me no matter what, even if he didn't understand something, he could, you know, be respectful and loving towards a friend, which I think is key, right? A lot of my friends make decisions I wouldn't necessarily make, but I support and love them regardless because, you know, I know certain things are not my business and it's not their job to justify those types of things to me. But it's my job to be a respectful and supportive friend. So that's a very far cry from who he is today, trying to get the government into our bedrooms, make decisions about our health care, something I think most Americans don't want.

NK: Did he have, from what you remember of your time together in conversations, aspirations, vice presidential or presidential aspirations?

SN: Definitely had political aspirations. I don't know that he was aiming from, for the White House at the at that time. But certainly, after Hillbilly Elegy took off, I think it's well-documented that he was meeting with various high level people and exploring a long term political plan that I think he intended to end in the White House.

NK: As you saw that unfolding, I don't know if you read Hillbilly Elegy or, you know, as you saw all of that happening and read what you did in the coverage, what did you think?

SN: I did read Hillbilly Elegy and I stayed in touch with him until, you know, 2021. I was hopeful that even though he supported some policies that I didn't agree with, that he would contribute to a robust, respectful political dialogue about important issues facing the Rust Belt, where, you know, I live and where I'm from. And I was encouraging and supportive of him. Unfortunately, he ran into kind of a political feeling being a Never Trumper, and he decided that instead of being patient and sticking to his values of decency and respect and being tethered to the truth, he abandoned all of that for political expediency. And, you know, he's been kind of mimicking the divisive cruelty of Donald Trump ever since and being completely untethered to facts, which is just it's really dangerous. It's bad for the country. It's sad to see coming from someone who I once considered a friend. And it's something I felt compelled to speak out against. And just to help, you know, the American people know that this is someone he's a chameleon, he's a fraud. And he's willing to change his personality and positions on issues to advance money and power. And I think authenticity is important to the American people. And the information that I have, I think, is relevant to making those assessments.

NK: And you've likely seen the statement that JD Vance released when you first started speaking out back in August, I believe. It says, quote, Senator Vance values his friendships with individuals across the political spectrum. He's been open about the fact that some of his views from a decade ago began to change after becoming a dad and starting a family. And he has thoroughly explained why he changed his mind on President Trump, end quote. And went on, it goes on to say, "Senator Vance cares for Sofia and wishes Sofia the very best", end quote. When you heard or read that the first time or hearing it now on the night of the vice presidential debate, what are those words mean to you?

SN: Well, you know, I still care about JD as a person, I don't want to see anything happen to him. But when he's trying to strip me and my neighbours and the people I care about of our civil and political rights, I don't want to see him in a position of power.

NK: Vice presidential debates, as you likely know, don't really usually move the needle too much. But this campaign is another thing altogether. It's a very close race and I think a lot of people agree that anything can happen at any time, given what we've seen happen so far. What are you going to be watching for? What do you hope comes out of this evening?

SN: I think this this debate might be a little bit more consequential than vice presidential debates of the past, just given the age of Donald Trump. He's 78 years old. I think if he were to be elected, who his vice president would be is more important than if he was 68. Right. So, I hope the American people pay close attention. The contrast, I think, should be stark for the American people. And I'm looking forward to that.

NK: Sofia, I thank you for your time.

SN: Thank you so much.

CH: Sofia Nelson is a lawyer in Detroit, Michigan, and a former friend of Republican vice presidential candidate JD Vance.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Part 2: Senate Family Doctors, Timiskaming Hydro, Gerrymandering Protest Campaign, Marylebone Weddings

Senate Family Doctors

Guest: Ratna Omidvar

CH: Ratna Omidvar says it's time for Ottawa to do what it can to increase the number of family doctors. Senator Omidvar is the chair of the Canadian Senate's Social Affairs Science and Technology Committee. And not many people would push back against the idea that Canada desperately needs more family doctors. But what might raise some eyebrows is her reports claim that Ottawa could increase Canada's supply of primary care physicians by 50 per cent by taking two relatively inexpensive steps. We reached Senator Ratna Omidvar in Ottawa.

NK: Senator, this is certainly not a new issue. Millions of Canadians know what it is like to not have a family doctor. But broadly speaking, what does all of this mean for Canadians and their health?

RATNA OMIDVAR: It's an extremely serious issue. You know, ask any one of the 6.5 million Canadians who do not have access to a family doctor. They cannot access referrals when they get sick. They have to go to emergency. That clogs up our system and creates problems down the pipeline and in many different ways. It's an extremely costly and inefficient way of dealing with our medical needs. And the shortage of 6.5 million people is today. It is expected to rise to 10 million within the next decade. So, we urgently need solutions that be can be implemented that don't result in, you know, lots of consultations and study.

NK: As is known to happen. It is a situation I know people outside of the country of this country are shocked to hear that this could be a situation in Canada. It is the reality. You're saying Ottawa could do two things. One is to create residency positions, more of them for international medical graduates. How do you see that working?

RO: It's actually rather simple. There is already a precedent. The federal government already purchases residencies through the Canadian Armed Forces so that the armed forces have supply of physicians. And it would simply be Canada, the federal government talking directly to the teaching hospitals in Canada and discussing terms and conditions for increasing the supply of family physicians and residencies. We are suggesting 750 residencies to start off. They could be ramped up depending on capacity and things like that. But imagine what those 750 family residencies could produce within two years. These doctors would be practising.

NK: So that 750 doctors within two years.

RO: 750 doctors.

NK: That's a long way from 6 million.

RO: It's a long way. But 750 every doctor provides service to [NK: Multiple people, certainly] to a whole bunch of people. I wish I had the number right in front of me. But that is one way of proceeding to closing the shortage. There is another way. It's more timely. It's far less costly. And I think we should look at that as well.

NK: It's the creation of a national practice ready assessment program that would operate more quickly.

RO: Operate more quickly. It would be national. It would have a single sort of portal to entry, very much like what we already have for the matching of residencies. So, it's not revolutionary. It's just picking up on best practices and creating the capacity for the system to have more assessors come in to assess international medical graduates. And, you know, [audio error] 13,000 international medical graduates in Canada. But we're not, we're talking about those who have gone through every hurdle. They've passed the language test. They have verified their foreign medical credentials so that these are on par with Canadian standards. They have passed two standardized exams that assess their knowledge and readiness to practice in Canada. The only thing, the only thing that's standing between them and their license is either a residency or a practice ready assessment.

NK: If it is so, so simple, as you say, and straightforward and common sense. Why hasn't it happened sooner? This shortage has been ballooning for quite some time.

RO: I think that's a very good question. I just I have no evidence to back this up. But I just think that the whole context of health care and the complexity and the jurisdiction succeed in creating lots of confusion and complexity. And here there is some simplicity. There is money to be spent. We don't deny that this will cost money, but it will cost a drop in the bucket...

NK: How much?

RO: Compared... Well, you know, 750 residencies in first year would cost about 175 million dollars. And the practice ready assessments, which are about 35 to 40 thousand each, would cost much less. So, you know, if my figures are right, we are looking at 200 million dollars, which is 0.2 per cent of the federal health budget to provide Canadians with care within a year and definitely within two years. It's in their reach to do this.

NK: There is provincial responsibility in health care, obviously. It is a provincial responsibility, as you well know. Is that adding, is that complicating matters?

RO: It always complicates matters. But when you're dealing directly, let's say with the teaching hospital and the teaching hospital has issues of capacity, the province gets folded into those conversations as it must. I believe the federal dollars could lubricate that way.

NK: I know you've sent your proposal, Senator, to Health Minister Mark Holland. What's your sense? Any sense of a response so far?

RO: We have a meeting coming up. [NK: When is that?] It's this month. So, we are very anxious that he gets his ears on this proposal, his eyes on this proposal because it is exciting.

NK: Senator, I appreciate your time. We'll check back in with you after that meeting.

RO: Thank you.

CH: Senator Ratna Omidvar is the chair of the Senate's Social Affairs Science and Technology Committee. We reached her in Ottawa.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Timiskaming Hydro

CH: A first nation in western Quebec has ambitions that are very big and impressively small. The Timiskaming First Nation is in the early stages of a pilot project that aims to reshape the paradigm around hydro project. First, it's being designed and developed by and for the Indigenous community itself. And second, it involves the creation of a micro hydro dam, one that would power a small number of homes and have a smaller environmental impact than traditional hydro projects. Tara Dantouze is a resource manager with The First Nation and she is spearheading the project.

SOUNDCLIP

TARA DANTOUZE: The opportunity seemed too good to pass up because at the end, Timiskaming First Nation will have 100 per cent ownership Thordon Energy is our partner and we will be producing up to 200kW of power. So, I think that's around, it could power 15 houses. But I think part of the goal and the vision here is to build capacity to complete a project of this level and then to be able to replicate bigger projects further down the line. So, it's really important to us to have our First Nation guiding the way, including any of the environmental impacts that we'll eventually have to mitigate. So, it being a micro hydro turbine, we are hoping that the impacts will be low, such as like the shoreline impacts or impacts to any of the fish habitat and fish population. So, looking at those topics very closely and trying to understand the impact, but then also trying to mitigate the impact as well so.

RACHEL WATTS: Do you think in the past there's been enough Indigenous representation in projects like this?

TARA DANTOUZE: Honestly, I will have to say no because we have six hydro dams in our backyard that have really impacted the travel way of our fish populations. It's really impacted our ability to move from community, community by way of water transportation and so Timiskaming First Nation has been completely left out of those discussions with Hydro-Québec. So that's one of the struggles that we're currently facing, which is that stigma around hydro projects. But we're trying to tackle it with the view that, you know, they did it without any consultation with our First Nations and we want to do it better.

CH: Tara Dantouze lives into Timiskaming First Nation. She is spearheading a micro dam pilot project there. She was talking to the CBC's Rachel Watts.

[Music: Steel drum instrumental]

Gerrymandering Protest Campaign

Guest: Kate Barr

CH: "Clear eyes, Full hearts, Can't win". That's Kate Barr's campaign slogan. She's a Democratic candidate for a state Senate in North Carolina. And it might seem like she's throwing in the towel just weeks before the U.S. elections, but that has been her slogan since day one. If you doubt me, visit her website, katebarrcantwin.com, but Ms. Barr is not running to win. She's running to protest gerrymandering, the redrawing of North Carolina's electoral map last year, which saw a closely divided state re-arranged into districts that heavily favour Republicans. We reached Kate Barr in Statesville, North Carolina.

NK: Kate, just how much time and effort are you devoting to losing?

KATE BARR: [Laughter] It's probably 15 or 20 hours a week at this point. If I'm going to lose, I might as well do it spectacularly.

NK: Why did you decide this was the route to take to make your point about gerrymandering?

KB: Because I really believe that people need to see on the ground experiences related to gerrymandering. So that looks like a candidate failing to run and knowing they're going to lose all in the same day before votes are even cast. It's also about being able to talk about if you don't like the traffic on your roads, how does gerrymandering impact your transportation? How does it impact development in your town? There are a lot of day to day impacts and it's tough for folks to get their minds around that. But when you're running for office, you get to talk about that stuff.

NK: What kind of response are you getting?

KB: Democrats generally are very enthusiastic. There are a lot of candidates running in gerrymandered districts because our whole state has been gerrymandered. So, I'm the only one who's running explicitly as someone who can't win. But people are grateful to have someone to vote for. The worst thing is to show up at the ballot box. And when you go to vote for any race to not have a choice.

NK: And Republicans, what are they saying?

KB: They don't say much. Most of what they say is sort of like a 'Democrats should blame themselves for not working hard enough in rural districts'. And usually what I say back is we're running in every state house and state Senate district except for two this year. So, we're showing up and we still can't win.

NK: As our listeners heard in the introduction a moment ago. Last year was when North Carolina's congressional districts were redrawn. Just illustrate for our listeners from where you sit, how that changed the playing field for Democrats and Republicans in the state.

KB: Sure. So, it's easiest to see from our congressional maps where we send 14 congresspeople to Washington, D.C., in 2022. We had a fair congressional map that was drawn by what are called special masters instead of by a political party. We sent seven Democrats and seven Republicans. This year, with our gerrymandered maps, we will send either 10 or 11 Republicans and either 3 or 4 Democrats. There's only one competitive district.

NK: As you know, though, gerrymandering certainly isn't unique to Republicans, Democrats have used this method maybe begrudgingly in the beginning, but they've used it to press their own political advantage. New York and Illinois, if I'm not mistaken. So, what do you say to members of your own party who've done that?

KB: It's wrong no matter who's doing it. Voters are supposed to be the ones in charge. That's what it means for us to have a democracy. And I would like us to have a representative democracy. That means we need to have appropriately drawn districts that adhere to good district guidelines and to our state constitutions. I don't care what party you're from.

NK: This is a mission for you. I can tell you're passionate about it, clearly. You have a full life otherwise and you're clearly in on the joke. You're writing the slogans and the T-shirts and all of that. You're committed to losing, as you said, but what kind of toll does that take on you?

KB: You know, honestly, of course, I'm tired because it's work, but it gives me so much energy. This is infinitely better than doing nothing and I'm having a pretty good time doing it. I have gotten to know a lot of folks that I wouldn't have met otherwise, particularly in a part of the district that is new to me since I was not a part of that district before and have made both great friends and it feels like making a difference and showing my kids what it looks like to stand up.

NK: What do they say? I don't know how old they are, but what do they say about what you're doing?

KB: I have an eight year old daughter and a six year old son, and they are very enthusiastic. They're super cute. They will not knock doors with me they have drawn the line there, but they love to run the button maker. So, they are hammering out buttons.

NK: What would victory look like for you at the end of this? You're not going to win. We've established that you're not getting votes. But what is victory at the end of the day?

KB: Honestly, I have already won. Very early on in this race. One of my neighbours daughter's was asking her mom why I was running and saying I couldn't win. She thought it was like that, I didn't believe in myself or I wasn't trying hard. And so, her mom taught her about gerrymandering. And this girl is in fifth grade, and she was horrified. She said that must be illegal. And of course, it's not. At least not yet. And so, she put together a binder that she carried around for weeks getting people to sign a petition to end gerrymandering. And like, that's the mission, right? It's to make sure that people know what gerrymandering is. Understand why it's wrong and understand the path. In our case, the judicial system to making things better and getting our fair maps.

NK: Do you imagine a time where you will run a campaign and hope to win and plan to win?

KB: Oh gosh. My first goal is to make sure that we win the judicial races. We need to win to flip our court in 2028 and then get fair maps in 2030. And I can't really project honestly any farther than that.

NK: Just to go back to something I asked you earlier on the issue of Democrats gerrymandering. There's an article I was reading saying it was the key to their survival, even though they hated it, even though the Republicans came up with the word and the practice, if they hadn't have done that, it would have been death politically.

KB: Yeah. And I mean, I think the Republicans might say the same thing right now. We're supposed to be a country of people living in community together and then choosing someone to go and represent us. It shouldn't matter if a political party doesn't like the outcome. We, the voters, are meant to be in charge. I'm saying tough luck, Democrats and Republicans.

NK: I appreciate your time. Thank you.

KB: Thank you so much.

CH: Kate Barr is a candidate for state Senate, District 37 in North Carolina. We reached her in Statesville.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Marylebone Weddings

CH: Wedding days always feel like they go by in the blink of an eye. And for 100 couples in London, England, that probably felt especially true today because the couples all got married today at the same place, old Marylebone Town Hall. It's a celebration of the venue's hundred year long history of hosting weddings, including those of celebrities like Paul McCartney and Liam Gallagher, who did not, unfortunately, marry each other. Today, the hall allotted 15 minutes per ceremony, making it a fast moving day for all 100 couples and for the staff. Superintendent Registrar Hasina Begum spoke to the BBC midway through all today's nuptials.

SOUNDCLIP

CHARLOTTE GALLAGHER: How many weddings have happened so far?

HASINA BEGUM: So far. I've lost count, but only about 20 so far. So, yeah, we've got the rest of the day still to go.

CG: How did this idea come about? Because it is so ambitious.

HB: It is. It sounded like a crazy idea in the beginning, but we spent about a year in the planning of it. The purpose of today is really to celebrate 100 years of ceremonies in the old Marylebone town hall. I mean, at the end of the day, this is what we do, you know, on a daily basis. So, we wanted to get something to celebrate and have a big impact. But also, we wanted to include people in it. So, it would have been easy just to have a big party to celebrate. But we thought, actually, let's do something really special and include people and people celebrating their love stories.

CG: I hope the staff are all going to have a bit of a party after you finish?

HB: After the last ceremony this evening we will definitely celebrate. Yes.

CG: And what was the response like when you advertised this? You're going to do 100 weddings in a day and it's going to cost 100 pounds for one day only.

HB: The response was humungous. So initially we offered it out to Westminster residents, those who work and studied in Westminster. So, we took it out for about a month to see how the uptake was. It was huge. We filled probably about 60 per cent of the bookings and then after a month we offered it out to everyone and then within about another month it was fully booked. So, I then had to create a waiting list. So, then I spent the rest of the year pretty much just monitoring the bookings, making sure that if a slot became available to contact someone from the waiting list to fit them in.

CG: And you've been a registrar for some time, Do you have any standout memories of weddings in particular that really kind of you remember well?

HB: I think it's probably the outfits that people come with sometimes some of them really stick out. I think that's the best part of our job, actually, is just to see the whole variety of the different kinds of outfits people wear at weddings. And of course, we have people coming from all over the country, all of the world, in fact, people fly in to get married here. So, all the different cultural backgrounds, all the different outfits that people come wear and, you know, the stories we sometimes hear lots of lovely stories of people's love stories. And today is all about celebrating those love stories.

CG: And, of course, you're known for your celebrity weddings as well. You've had some of the biggest stars, not just from the UK, but across the world, getting married here.

HB: Absolutely. Yes. So, I think yes, the building itself is very well known. We're very lucky to be here, to be able to do this today. And, you know, we have just for this purpose.

CH: Hasina Begum is the superintendent registrar at Old Marylebone Town Hall in London. She was speaking with the BBC's Charlotte Gallagher.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Part 3: B.C. Dino Tracks, Encore: Marathon Goat, Mini Update: Belfast Cruise, California Brain Data Protection, Jimmy Carter 100th

B.C. Dino Tracks

CH: Recently, Sheldon Marion was out exploring around Hudson's Hope in northeastern B.C. Mr. Marion has a YouTube channel and he's passionate about encouraging people to get outdoors, and his recent discovery is definitely inspiring on that front. Here he is telling the CBC about the moment he found some very, very old tracks.

SOUNDCLIP

SHELDON MARION: On one of the creeks there at Carbon Creek. There was a set of dinosaur tracks that I found underneath the bridges. So, I went down and took a couple of pictures of them and submitted them to the Royal B.C. Museum. And it turns out it's not necessarily a new dinosaur trackway discovery. It's mainly kind of newly recorded, I think about 20 years ago it was reported as a dinosaur trackway site, but that was about as far as it went. Where now with the Royal B.C. Museum involved. It's actually being reported as the dinosaur trackway site. [CR: Wow]. Yeah. It's a nice new little trackway for people to check out up here in northern B.C.

CAROLINA DE RYK: Did you know that you were looking for them at the time when you went out there to film?

SHELDON MARION: No, I had no idea. I went through the area probably a year before that, but during that time the water was too high where all the tracks and stuff, they were all under water. But with this year, with such low water, all the exposed rock was out in the wide open kind of thing. And when I first seen them, I was actually on top of the bridge, still in my truck with the window rolled down. And I just looked down and they looked very similar to the trackway site that's at Six Peaks, which is about a mile and a halfway from there. So, I parked the truck off to the sidewalk down there, and I started seeing all these cool little dinosaur tracks.

CAROLINA DE RYK: Wow. How do how did you know that they were dinosaur tracks? What do they look like?

SHELDON MARION: They just looked extremely similar to the ones that are at the Six Peak trackway site. And so, there's one that's a three toed meat eater. There's one that's kind of like a four tone plant dinosaur. And then when the Royal B.C. Museum Palaeontologist came up, we started looking around and we found what is possibly but not 100 per cent, some actually pretty rare bird fossils prints as well.

CH: That was Sheldon Marion talking to Carolina de Ryk, host of Daybreak. The Royal B.C. Museum's Victoria Arbour went with Mr. Marion to view the dinosaur tracks and told our colleagues in British Columbia, quote, It was great to get a chance to check out these footprints near the site we were studying this summer, unquote.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Encore: Marathon Goat

CH: It takes discipline to really succeed at running a half marathon. You have to train, eat right and sign up in advance in order to get a medal. You can't just munch on some cheeses, hop a fence and join the pack. Well, you can't. And I can't. But Joshua actually can. On Sunday, Joshua, who is a goat, crashed the T'Railway Trek half marathon in Conception Bay South, Newfoundland and Labrador. He clearly had not trained. He only finished a quarter of the race. But he was so popular that he was given a medal for his accomplishment. Heidi Taylor is Joshua's owner and she explained how he fared.

SOUNDCLIP

HEIDI TAYLOR: There were people out in their pajamas out on the road because you know, news travels fast, there's a goat running down the road. And no one could believe it because he was in the race. He just wasn't wandering off; he was running with them. I think the racers, because they really kept an eye to him. I know there's water stations on the way for the racers to get a drink, they were trying to give him a drink. He wouldn't drink. He just kept going. Some of the racers were telling me that they slowed down because he was getting tired. So of course, they're still running a marathon, they want to keep going, they speed up, he sped up.

KRISSY HOLMES: Okay. So, I understand that it took a little while before you realized what had actually happened. How did you find out the Josh the goat was literally on the run?

HEIDI TAYLOR: Well, it was through social media. We were home here yesterday morning, you know, typical Sunday morning. And just on social media. And someone posted a picture of this goat crossing over the four lanes down by what they would call the kitty turn in TBS, which is close to the Sobeys in Long Pond. But he was crossing over to go to the other trail because you have to cross the main road to continue on with the T'Railway bit. So right away my fiancée and my brother took off. I sent them on with a collar, a leash and a bag of cheeses because Joshua loves cheeses along with popcorn. And not that he wouldn't come to you, but just the shaking of the bag. You know, if he was, you know, on a run, he would stop. But he knows all of us very well. And as soon as he sees us, he, you know, he would stop but, a treat, would lure him, you know, even more.

KRISSY HOLMES: Okay. So, I mean, can you detail for us what this, the chase that ensued after.

HEIDI TAYLOR: He didn't, he got to Tobin's lane which is in Manuals and the resident got him. She tied a coat around his neck it's all she had. Actually, I don't even know if it's a man or woman. I know it was a resident, tied a coat around his neck. And held him there until I put a Facebook post up saying, you know, please keep me updated where you see him because, I mean, we're driving in a car. And the police and the racers and the coordinators wanted him brought to the finish line. So, we then took him to Topsail Beach, where he did the last bit of the walk you know, to the beach and crossed the finish line on his own then.

CH: Then that was Heidi Taylor, owner of Joshua the goat, speaking with Krissy Holmes, host of On the Go. Joshua is hardly the first goat to go rogue. Last year, we caught up with Veronica Herrera, who was trying to catch up with Willy, a missing rodeo goat, in Willacy County, Texas.

SOUNDCLIP

PETER ARMSTRONG: Veronica, it sounds like this goat was the talk of the town. How big of a deal was it when she was finally caught?

VERONICA HERRERA: I think we were just all so relieved and excited. I actually got like a Snapchat video for my cousin because he's one of the ones that caught her. [PA: Oh, wow]. I think everyone was just so thrilled. I mean, the prizes had really grown. So, I think that was part of some of the excitement. But I mean, for us, we were just so excited that she was finally, like, off the streets, out of the fields, and we could get eyes on her and keep her safe.

PA: Take me back. Let's start at the beginning. How, how was it first noticed that the goat had slipped out of her pen?

VH: Well, actually, we were packing up after an event earlier in July. And my son, he helps me. And, you know, he's the one that said, like, ah, there's only four goats. [PA chuckles] Like, what do you mean there's only four goats?! So, we looked for her and look for her. And, like, the event was over at about 1:30 in the morning. So, we stayed out there till about 2:30, 3 o’clock. She was seen off on one of the main highways, and we kind of wrangled her back into the showgrounds, and then she disappeared again. So, she was quite the Houdini from the very beginning.

PA: And was there like some kind of a gap in the pen? Is that how she snuck out?

VH: Yeah. So those holding pens for livestock, they're mainly meant to hold cattle. So, goats and cattle, two completely different sizes, right? So, we do have one pen that has smaller, you know, panels on it, but there's a little piece of the fence that she found that she was able to squeeze through is what I'm thinking.

PA: And you mentioned you had borrowed Willy. This wasn't even your own goat.

VH: Oh, no. Yeah, we definitely have one of the ranchers here locally that allows us to borrow these animals so we can put on our events. They're expected to be taken back. And when I didn't return one, [both chuckle] that was a little bit embarrassing. But also, you know, once it turned into this, you know, huge deal and everyone was so invested, you know, the rancher was like, you know what? Willy's rodeo days are over.

PA: We're talking weeks here that this goat was on the lam. You get reports that what she'd, like, said that somebody said, okay, we saw her over by the highway. Somebody else would see her somewhere else. Did it almost feel like she was kind of teasing the town? Like just to stay just enough out of site to never quite get caught.

VH: Yeah, exactly. So, like, over the two, two and a half weeks that she was gone, she was only seen maybe like three or four times. All these other search parties that were happening and us walking fields, it was like just based on a whim, like she was seen here before. Let's go look for her. And then we'd look and look and look, and there'd be absolutely no sign of her. And then all of a sudden, she'd show up the next day. So definitely playing with our emotions. I was, like, emotionally exhausted after a couple of weeks. It was just insane.

PA: Now, Veronica, I'm a city guy. I don't know goats. But I don't think of goats as these, like, super elusive animals. [both chuckle] Why was she so hard to track down?

VH: Well, they're really not supposed to be unless you're a goat like Willy. So, I mean, we have show goats my kids show, those goats come up to you, but they're also used to us feeding them and handling them on a daily basis. Willy was not one of those goats. So, to her, she was raised in pastures or in big old pens. You know, she'd graze. So, she never really relied on anyone to bring her feed or relied on someone to pet her down or, you know, love on her and stuff. So, when she sees humans, it's no big deal to her. She’d rather avoid them because she doesn't think we have anything to offer her, I guess.

PA: I mean, I lost my phone last week, and I was up nights trying to think about where it could be and what had happened. This is an animal that you're responsible for. What were your emotions like through all of this?

VH: I think a lot of people were, like, super excited about the chase and the fun and the story. I was just really worried that something was going to happen to her.

PA: Right.

VH: So, the longer she stayed out there, you know, the more it worried me that maybe we wouldn't get her back.

PA: Now, you mentioned the list of things people were offering as a reward if anybody could capture. What were people around the county offering?

VH: We had people donating loaves of banana bread. And we had one local student who donated her grand champion pie, you know, [PA chuckles] from the bake show last year. And then, we had people donating bales of hay, gift cards, cash, caps, shirts that said, "I caught the goat". Like --

PA: Oh, wow.

VH: Quite the array of prizes. It was kind of cool.

PA: So, there's all these offers of help and of rewards. It finally took two pretty specialized dudes to catch Willy. How was she eventually caught?

VH: Well, you would think these local cowboys would have been able to, like, rope her and wrangle her. [PA chuckles] But from what I understand, once they saw her, you know, they threw a lasso at them. And both missed her. And ultimately, Willy kind of caught herself because she ran into a fence and she got a little bit tangled. And that's how the guys were able to get on her and secure her.

PA: And what kind of shape was she in? I mean, like, that's a long stretch to go.

VH: Surprisingly, she was pretty healthy. But then again, she was living in these really lush fields. She was eating all the grass she wanted. When we found her, she, she looked like she was in pretty good shape.

PA: And so, do you call the rancher, the, the owner of the goat and say, okay, we got her. What, like, what was that conversation like?

VH: I told him we had caught her, and he said, that's great. Set her up with a nice pen, and y'all keep her.

PA: And where is she now?

VH: Right now, she's actually living on one of our show board members' land. But ultimately, she'll be out in a big pasture near our local egg farm. So, like, where our kids keep their show animals. And she'll be in there.

PA: No more of these rodeos for Willy.

VH: No more rodeos for Willy. She will only be a guest appearance from here on out.

PA: Well, what do you think it is about this, though? Because you have these little moments in life that everybody sort of rallies around and gets involved, and it drags everybody in. Why do you think people in Willacy County were so invested in finding her?

VH: I think it was just something fun to get on board with. I think it started out a little bit silly, and, you know, I don't think anybody expected it to go the time frame that it did. But I think as people started to see it grow, they thought, you know, I want to be a part of this, too. I don't know. We live in an ugly world these days. So, you have a lot of bad news from day-to-day. I think this was just something to brighten up the day.

PH: For sure. It certainly brightened up our day. And we're really grateful to get you on the radio to talk about this and find out what happened in the end.

VH: Oh, yeah. Our tiny county, you know, not a whole lot of people know about us, but it's kind of fun to be as known as we are now. [chuckle]

PA: Indeed. I bet it is. Well, listen, thanks for this. Really appreciate it.

VH: Yes. Thank you.

CH: That was Veronica Herrera. Speaking with guest host Peter Armstrong last year about Willy the missing goat.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

Mini Update: Belfast Cruise

CH: And now an important update on the saga of the Villa Vie Odyssey luxury cruise ship. You must have been as relieved as we all were when you heard that the all-inclusive cruise home was finally ready to set sail on its years long global tour. After being stuck in Belfast since May and yesterday, to cheering and applause, it did just that. At last, the epic journey had begun. And then a few kilometres out, the epic journey stopped and turned around and headed back to port. Apparently, someone had forgotten to submit some crucial paperwork, but I have a feeling marooned passenger Holly Hennessey is weathering this latest challenge with aplomb. The former Florida resident had packed up her life and her cat and invested in a cabin on the Villa Vie Odyssey in May and travelled to Belfast ready to begin her life at sea. And when guest host Tom Harrington caught up with her in August, she was, of course, still in Belfast.

[SOUNDCLIP]

TOM HARRINGTON: Holly, how's the weather been in Belfast?

HOLLY HENNESSEY: It’s like winter all summer long. It's windy and it's chilly and it's usually gloomy -- which is the worst part. But it's all going to be worth it in the end.

TOM HARRINGTON: But you're describing this situation where you can't be on the boat and people are going off to other locations and you have different hotels that you're trying to stay in and you have to keep moving around. If it was me, I'd be blowing a gasket every day. How come you're not?

HOLLY HENNESSEY: Because I want this so badly. And I believe it's all going to be worth it in the end. And -- you know -- I hope I'm not wrong. Anything could happen.

[END SOUNDCLIP]

CH: It sure could. Marooned would be World Traveller and cruise ship dweller Holly Hennessey talking to guest host Tom Harrington in August. The long awaited actual for real this time no take backs, beginning of the Villa Vie's Odyssey scheduled for tonight, just before midnight BST.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

California Brain Data Protection

Guest: Jared Genser

CH: If you live in California, your innermost thoughts are now legally protected. On Saturday, Governor Gavin Newsom signed a new law that limits how tech companies can collect and use information generated by your brain activity, which more and more devices are capable of monitoring. The new law gives 'neural data' the same special protections as fingerprints and DNA. California is the second state to enshrine these protections after Colorado. Jared Genser was among those who pushed for the new laws in both states. He's the general counsel and co-founder of the non-profit NeuroRights Foundation, and we reached him in Washington, D.C.

NK: Jared, now that this law, this new law is in effect from where you sit, are the brains of Californians safer now than they were last week?

JARED GENSER: Well, I think they definitely are. It's an exciting development that neural data coming from brain scans in consumer products are now fully protected under California law. And this is a really, really important step forward because there are already 30 of these devices that you can buy on the market today for a wide array of uses. And the devices are medical grade technology. But because they are consumer products, they previously had not been actually regulated under medical data privacy laws.

NK: Give our listeners some concrete examples, if you don't mind. What are some of the neuro tech innovations that are out there now or in the works that concern you the most?

JG: Sure. Well, you know, already today, for example, you can buy a neuro tech device that helps you with meditation. You wear it for an hour while you're meditating. And you can see when you're actually in a meditative state. There's another device that helps, for example, if you have sleep problems. There's a gaming device where you can actually fly a helicopter drone with your thoughts. And, you know, other products of this kind that are on the market. But what's coming is both incredibly exciting as well as daunting. So, on the exciting side, you know, one of the most extraordinary developments that are forthcoming are actually in relation to thought-to-text translation. This can already be done with implantable brain computer interfaces where a person, for example, who was paralyzed and nonverbal last year for like 20 years after a stroke can now communicate at 70 words a minute with 90 per cent accuracy, decoding their thoughts to text. This can already be done actually in a wearable device, but right now a much lower level of accuracy, about 40 per cent. But it's expected that really in the next 3 or 4 years, you could very well be in a position to, you know, send text messages, you know, from your phone using your thoughts. And in fact, Apple just last year patented their next generation Airpod, you know, their earbuds that are going to have built in EEG scanners and would enable the application of this kind of technology. So, we're really only 2 or 3 years away from something like that.

NK: What is the worst case scenario? What do you see if laws like the one California has put in place now aren't put into place more broadly?

JG: There are obviously a lot of bad actors out in the world, they're going to try to use these devices for really worrying purposes. You know, for example, these devices are going to enable an unbeatable lie detector test at some point in the not too distant future. And you can imagine scenarios where people are forced to wear those devices against their will. You could also potentially profile people based on, you know, their brain scans and, for example, know whether they'd be more likely to engage in criminal activity. And unfortunately, there will undoubtedly also be torture devices developed where you could literally put a device on a person's head and inflict severe pain with the flick of a switch. That kind of technology comes from the fact that they're already beginning to be able to address people with chronic pain syndrome, with implantable brain computer interfaces. And what can be done with an implantable device today, will be able to be done with a wearable device tomorrow. And, you know, ultimately, if you learn how to turn off the neurons in the brain that are misfiring in chronic pain syndrome, you're also going to be able to learn how to turn them on.

NK: Is there, you know, you're talking about separate devices and gaming console, I think you said. Is this happening in what you've seen in apps as well?

JG: Well, so I mean, we're talking about, you know is, there are about 30 devices that are on the market today which are referred to as consumer neuro technologies. What we're talking about are brain computer interfaces and wearable devices that actually have medical grade brain scanning technologies built within them. And a device and your app alone is simply just another app and not something that we'd be particularly worried about. But I think the reason why we're worried about these consumer neuro technologies is because from a brain scan today, you can already decode, for example, if a person has any one of a number of different brain diseases. And you can also decode about a dozen different mental states, you know, is a person angry or happy or sad and so forth. And, you know, we are worried about these consumer products today with that kind of technology, perhaps being able to find these things out, you know, without the user actually consenting. And so, what we've just achieved in California is a heightened level of protection for neural data so that the protections for neural data are at least as high as genetic data and biometric information as well.

NK: Lawyers representing companies, including Meta, Apple and Open A.I., as you know, all pushed back against this, arguing the law is, in their view, too broad. They're saying that this could stifle innovation, laws like this one. How do you respond to that?

JG: What's interesting to me is that a number of tech associations were lobbying against the bill, but no individual company actually stood up publicly or privately and showed up and said, we don't like this bill. And the reason is because, you know, if you're a company like an Apple or a Meta and you're developing consumer neuro tech products, are you really going to argue publicly to, you know, consumers that, you know, we have to protect, you know, for example, you know, your name, address, your credit card information. But when it comes to scanning your brain and decoding if you have brain diseases or even thought to text translation. We think that that shouldn't be subjected to any protections under the law. And, you know, obviously this is not a position that could be publicly defensible.

NK: Colorado did the same thing earlier this year. California, the second state now to do this, Chile instituted something similar nationally. In this case, is there still time for the law to get ahead of the technology? From what you see in places that haven't brought in this this legislation yet.

JG: Yeah, I mean, I think we have to work this from the top down and the bottom up. You know, we're also looking at international human rights law, which is binding on states and further interpreting, you know, existing obligations under international law to cover the risks of misuse and abuse of technologies like this. For example, the right to privacy under international law is interpreted as a right to be free from arbitrary interference with your privacy. But, for example, the passive monitoring and decoding of a person's brain activities might not fall within that definition. And so, we're advocating, for example, for that treaty with that right in it to redefine privacy under international law as including as embedded within it a right of mental privacy, right. A right to protect in essence, anything that's inside your head and keep that sacrosanct from disclosure unless you explicitly and specifically agree to it. There are already in many countries around the world, consumer data privacy laws, and those need to be updated to ensure that neural data is given, you know, the highest levels of protection in each country around the world.

NK: Jared, I'm glad we could speak. Thank you.

JG: Thank you.

CH: Jared Genser is the General counsel and co-founder of the non-profit NeuroRights Foundation. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

[Music: Lo-fi instrumental]

Jimmy Carter 100th

CH: Jimmy Carter just became the first former U.S. president to turn 100 years old. President Carter is living at his home in Georgia. One of his grandson says he's eager to cast his ballot for Kamala Harris in November. Back in 2022, we spoke with another of President Carter's grandsons, John Chuldenko. He told us about the White House's massive vinyl record collection, which had been banished to storage decades ago. And he wanted that vinyl to make a comeback, including some records his grandfather had played in the White House. He told guest host Helen Mann how he'd learned about the collection.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHN CHULDENKO: I was on a family vacation, and I was sitting with my uncle. And he was telling me a story about having a party in the White House with his friends. And there was some kind of official event going on downstairs that was likely pretty fancy. And they were blasting The Stones. Maybe one of Mick's, shall we say, less PG selections. And just as the chorus came on, he saw Mom and Mrs. Mondale walk into the room just as Mick Jagger is screaming some kind of profanity over and over again. [both chuckle] And he said, you know, they did not stay very long at this party.

HELEN MANN: But he didn't have the record himself. It was in the collection.

JC: Yeah, well, my follow-up question was like, hey, what do you mean? Were there records in there? You know, did you bring your own records? And I think it was a little of both. But he said there were also records that were there when they moved in, and that's what started this whole process. Well, what do you mean there's records that are already there when you moved in? And that just started me down this delightful rabbit hole.

HM: Well, you're one of the only people to have actually seen this collection in decades. It's been in storage for years, but they brought it to the White House when you were working on a documentary about this collection, I guess, about a decade ago. Can you give us a sense of what it is actually like to flip through this White House record collection?

JC: It really feels like you're going back in time. These records are so pristine. They, I mean, some had never been played before. Many in the second library had never been seen before, before I uncovered this. So, it felt like stepping into a record store in the seventies. I mean, it was such a treasure trove. And part of it is the way that they're packaged. You know, each, these records all live, maybe six or seven of them are grouped together, and they're in these binders that are embossed with the presidential seal and foil stamped with the White House record library on them.

HM: Oh, wow!

JC: So, it just feels like… oh yeah, it just feels so official. And we were down, there's a, there's a movie theatre sort of at the ground level. So, we were down in there, which is always a special experience, too. So, the sound was really deadened and quiet. And it was just an incredibly profound, moving experience, really.

HM: So, did your grandfather actually play any of these records in the collection when he was in the Oval Office?

JC: He did. He listened to… he listened to music. They're both huge music fans. Music plays a huge role in their lives. And he listened to music constantly. I mean, he told me, you know, unless he was actively in a meeting in the Oval Office, there was music going, you know when he was --

HM: Oh, right in the Oval Office?

JC: Yeah, he told me that his assistant at the time would play mostly classical music, but not… not your… not your sort of regular stuff. He would seek out more interesting composers or, you know, up-and-coming artists and compositions and things like that. And he would have, his assistant would play them on the turntable, and the speakers would come into the, to the Oval Office. And what's cool is she would… [chuckle] you know, every hour or so, she would bring in a stack of three-by-five note cards. And on those cards was written, you know, the title and composer and orchestra of all these selections. So, he would flip through. And this was, you know, seventies technology. It's handwritten note cards, right? But he would flip through, and then he got to know the pieces he liked.

HM: Do you have those cards? Wouldn’t that be cool?

JC: Oh, my gosh! Wouldn't that be great? [chuckling]

HM: That’s too bad!

JC: I wonder if those are all, I mean, all that stuff gets recorded. I wonder if those are somewhere?

HM: Maybe go to Grandpa’s Presidential Library and see if you can find the cards.

JC: Oh, my goodness! Now I've got another project.

CH: From our archives, that was Jimmy Carter's grandson, John Chuldenko, speaking with, As It Happens, guest host Helen Mann in 2022. Today, Jimmy Carter turned 100 years old, and I'm not sure if this one's in the vinyl collection, but if it isn't, it should be.

[Music: Theme]

CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC Listen App. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after Your World Tonight.

NK: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on As It Happens on our website, cbc.ca/aih. I'm Nil Köksal.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

[Music: Theme]

The AIH Transcript For October 01, 2024

Social Sharing