Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2024

The AIH Transcript for November 21, 2024

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Warrants discussion. Canada's former ambassador to Israel tells us what international arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and others mean for Canada and for the prospect of peace.

CH: Between rocks and a hard place. Police in South Africa are surrounding an abandoned gold mine where hundreds, possibly thousands of miners, are believed to be operating illegally at serious risk to their safety.

NK: Study buddies. Born just a day apart, two besties from New Brunswick have become Rhodes scholars together and are taking their already impressive friendship to new academic heights.

CH: Chipping in. A team of Canadian researchers is investigating how NeuraLink brain implant chips could help people who are paralyzed. Our guest hopes prospective beneficiaries won't be put off by the perceived security risks of having a microchip inside your head.

NK: Sides of relief. The federal government says Canadians deserve a little pre-Christmas break from the GST, but Opposition MPs are questioning the Liberal Party's math.

CH: And thinks part of a bunch. A crypto investor builds big on the banana that artist Maurizio Cattelan once duct taped to a wall or, more accurately, on a certificate of authenticity guaranteeing a banana as an original work and instructions on how to tape it to a wall. As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that knows trying to make sense of it is fruitless.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: ICC Arrest Warrants, Duct Tape Banana, N.B. Rhodes Scholars

ICC Arrest Warrants

Guest: Jon Allen

CH: Benjamin Netanyahu is officially a wanted man. Today, the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for the Israeli prime minister and former defence minister, Yoav Gallant. The court says it has reasonable grounds to believe both men have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity in the deadly 13 month long war in Gaza. An arrest warrant was also issued for Hamas official Mohammed Deif for alleged war crimes committed on October 7th. The Israeli army says he was killed in July, but the ICC says it is not in a position to determine whether that's true. Reaction to the news was swift. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called the warrants anti-Semitic and the U.S. said it fundamentally rejects the court's decision. Jon Allen is Canada's former ambassador to Israel and a senior fellow at the Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy. We reached him in Toronto.

NK: Jon Allen, is there a realistic scenario from where you sit in which Benjamin Netanyahu would be arrested if he were to visit Canada, for example.

JON ALLEN: If he were to visit Canada? I believe he would be arrested based on the statement by Prime Minister Trudeau earlier in the day where he said that Canada intends to abide by the rulings of the court. And that is our obligation. I think it what it means is that the prime minister, Prime Minister Netanyahu, will avoid going to any countries who are under those obligations.

NK: The United States is, of course, not a party to the ICC's Rome Statute. But I wonder from where you sit, what you think it means for a country like the United States that Benjamin Netanyahu has now joined a list that includes Russia's Vladimir Putin, Sudan's Omar al-Bashir and Uganda's Joseph Kony. And those are just a few on that same list.

JA: Well, I think it's a sad day for progressive Jews who hold Israel, the country in high regard and respect the country, and to know that its leader has joined those that you named. It doesn't seem to be affecting either the Biden or nor will it affect the Trump administration. Who will ignore that ruling. Israel is also not a party to the statute, but nonetheless, people like Prime Minister Netanyahu can nonetheless be issued warrants under the treaty.

NK: What does all of this actually change, do you think, sir?

JA: Well, it's hurt the reputation of Israel. I think sadly, I think it's sent a signal, though, that when you, when you are exercising the right of self-defence, which Israel certainly has, you still have to abide by international law and international humanitarian law. That law was formed in the wake of the Second World War and the First World War to try and prevent the kinds of acts that the Prime Minister and the ex-Minister of Defence are accused of starvation, for example, and indiscriminate murdering.

NK: When you look at the allegations, some of which you just mentioned there, what kind of evidence is the ICC bringing forward as you look at the legal case?

JA: Well, certainly in the question of the starvation, the Israeli government imposed a two week siege right at the beginning of the war. But as we know from the many exhortations by the Americans to increase the amount of food and humanitarian assistance into Gaza, they have also failed for over a year to provide sufficient humanitarian assistance. Then there are other elements like attacks against civilians. Once again, Israel in a difficult position in a very small area. Hamas hiding under tunnels, but nonetheless an obligation on the IDF and the Prime Minister to minimize the civilian damage.

NK: In addition to calling these warrants, quote, "anti-Semitic". Israel is questioning their legal merit. And we want to play for you and our listeners now some of what a former legal advisor to the Israeli Defence Forces. His name is Alan Baker. What he told BBC News earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

ALAN BAKER: Well, first of all, the fact that the court doesn't have any jurisdiction to deal with the complaints by the Palestinians, because according to the statute of the court, only states can be party to the statute and there doesn't exist a Palestinian state.

NK: What's your response to that argument?

JA: Well, 143 countries in the United Nations have recognized Palestine as a state. And more importantly in this case, the International Criminal Court has recognized not only Palestine as a state, but that it has jurisdiction both over acts done on its territory and acts done by its citizens. And that's why Hamas operatives were also, there was an application for arrest for a number of Hamas operatives as well. But I simply, I and the court reject the no jurisdiction claim by Israel.

NK: Is there a risk that whatever the legal merits of these warrants, that in reality the only practical effect will be to isolate Israel further and perhaps push the possibility of peace even further away?

JA: Well, I think it may isolate Israel, but I don't think there's any relationship between this application for arrest and this decision to enforce it and peace in the future. I don't think that Bibi Netanyahu has to travel anywhere in order to begin a peace process with the Palestinians. And if he would do so, he would enhance his own reputation and the country's reputation.

NK: Do you think we're any closer to that happening now?

JA: No, we're not closer, but I don't think we're farther away.

NK: Knowing what you know, given your former role, what do you think would change the situation at this stage?

JA: At this stage? First of all, time, because both sides are suffering. Both sides feel as victims. Both sides have gone through a lot of pain and horror. But time and new leadership that understands that compromise will be necessary to leaders that are prepared to exclude extremists on both sides. Hamas and the messianic ministers in Netanyahu's government. And leaders that realize that their people really want peace and security and they don't want to be in continual war and they don't want to be sending their sons and daughters into war.

NK: Jon Allen, I appreciate your time. Thank you for this.

JA: Thank you very much.

CH: Jon Allen was Canada's ambassador to Israel from 2006 to 2010. He's in Toronto.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Duct Tape Banana

Guest: David Galperin

SOUNDCLIP

AUCTIONEER: These are words I'd never thought I'd say five million dollars for a banana. Don't let it slip away. Five million. One hundred thousand. They're not getting these jokes.

CH: That was what it sounded like at the Sotheby's 'Now and Contemporary' evening auction last night, where Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan's, peace "Comedian" reached yet another high. The winning bidder, Justin Sun is the founder of the cryptocurrency platform TRON. He paid 5.2 million dollars U.S., which is nearly 7.3 million Canadian in crypto coin for the work itself and another 1.3 million Canadian and auction house fees again for "Comedian", which as we've mentioned many times on this show, is a banana taped to a wall with duct tape. Not even that, really. Over the past five years, since the artwork debuted at Art Basel in Miami, many bananas have been taped to walls and removed from walls and eaten or thrown out. So actually, comedian is more the idea of a banana taped to a wall with duct tape. David Galperin is the head of Contemporary Art for the Americas at Sotheby's, New York. And that's where we reached him.

NK: David, you're an art fan. Sure. But can you ever imagine paying this many millions of dollars for a banana and some duct tape?

DAVID GALPERIN: I can if it was for "Comedian" by Maurizio Cattelan.

NK: [laughs] So if you had if you had all those millions stashed away, you would have put it all into this.

DG: Look, I think that this truly is one of the most revolutionary artworks made, at least in the past 50 years. When you think about the landscape of contemporary art and broadly 20th and 21st century art, there's very few works that have captured the world's attention instantaneously, like Cattelan with "Comedian". Assessing this in the context of prices for many other works of contemporary art that are sold on a nearly daily basis. I think it's a, I think that it's a very fair price to pay.

NK: What does it say about the world we're in and who we are in this moment?

DG: I think that the, we're in a world where there's a lot of questions being asked about value. And this is an artwork that interrogates that very question, obviously with a degree of humour and absurdity thrown in. I think the work in a way captures the moment so perfectly, not only from that perspective, but also from the perspective of the mass media world that we're in, right. This is a work of art that part of its power is in its ability to puncture through what is traditionally a kind of a confined world of the art market and enter the mass media cycle and the general pop cultural zeitgeist.

NK: We, our listeners heard a little bit from the auction a moment ago. You were there. You were in the room. [DG: I was] What did it feel like to be there in that moment, but also to be part of the story of this work?

DG: It was amazing because this is a work of art I believed in for a very long time. But we took a big leap when we brought this to auction. It was not obvious for many reasons, and I was really hoping that the world would stand up and take notice and see what we saw in it. And the auction was the culmination of that moment.

NK: In the end, as our listeners heard the founder of a cryptocurrency platform, won this work, had the highest bid. What exactly is he getting in return?

DG: So the buyer will receive a certificate of authenticity signed by the artist as well as a complete set of installation instructions that details how to reproduce the artwork.

NK: He says he's going to eat it. Is that right?

DG: That's what he says.

NK: How does that sit with you?

DG: It wouldn't be the first time.

NK: Yeah. True. True story. Did you know when this piece debuted five years ago that it was going to be big?

DG: It was big. I mean, it was from the moment it debuted in the art fair. It instantly shot to headlines around the world. The crowds at the art fair were so vast they actually had to take the work down at the time because it was a security risk. This was something that provoked an immediate response. One of the things that fascinated me was how divided the response was. There were people who were captivated by it, excited by it, who were completely taken by not only its power, but also the kind of intellectual depth of that. There were also vast contingents of people that were outraged. [NK: Yeah.] And seeing those factions play out against one another in heated debates online, discussions in the media, you know, conversations just amongst individuals, collectors. That speaks to the power of the work and I think gets at the heart of the exact dialogue that the artist intends to provoke.

NK: The debate, even if there's disgust is worth it, is what art is about, is what I hear you saying.

DG: It's all about the response. It's all about what people feel. It's all about what people think. It's all about how people perceive it. And that in a way, you know, is the issue that the artist is raising. It's what are the conditions that characterize something as art.

NK: When we talk about some of the criticism, I mean, what is the line between cheap shock value and meaningful provocation?

DG: I think it's all in the eye of the beholder. The artist is saying that this is the work of art because I created it. It's not any banana and duct tape. It is a banana and duct tape on the wall that is titled and authorized as an original artwork by me, Maurizio Cattelan. It's no different than in 1917 when Marcel Duchamp almost invented conceptual art. When he took a urinal, just a regular urinal, turned it on its head, installed it on a pedestal and signed it with a pseudonym, R. Mutt. And dated it and called it an artwork. That kicked off a whole century of artists really investigating the similar questions that Cattelan does with "Comedian".

NK: So what does someone in your position, David, do now after an auction like this one, an artwork like this one. You certainly you know, you have a track record of finding artwork that, you know, explodes in value at auction. So what are you looking for next? What do you do after an auction like this one?

DG: [laughs] We start from scratch and we look for the next big story.

NK: David, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

DG: Thank you so much.

CH: David Galperin is the head of Contemporary Art for the Americas at Sotheby's auction house in New York.

[Music: Horns instrumental]

N.B. Rhodes Scholars

Guests: Alyssa Xu and Claire Wilbur

CH: Alyssa Xu and Claire Wilbur have been best friends since childhood. They were born just a day apart in Saint John, New Brunswick. They were inseparable growing up. And now they're taking their best friendship to a new level. Next year, the pair will head to Oxford University as Rhodes scholars. After completing their undergrads at different universities, the two students are ready to reunite in England. Ms. Xu plans to pursue a Master of Science in translational health sciences, while Ms. Wilbur is seeking a master’s in science, in physiology, anatomy and genetics. We reached Ms. Xu in Amherst, Massachusetts, and Ms. Wilbur in Sackville, New Brunswick.

NK: Alyssa, Claire, congratulations.

BOTH: Thank you. Thank you.

NK: Alyssa, let me start with you. How does one find out that you are now a Rhodes Scholar? How did you get the word?

ALYSSA XU: So we found out via a phone call. Actually, on Saturday evening, I believe. But we weren't formally allowed to announce it until Monday.

NK: Could you talk to each other about it?

AX: Yeah. We had kind of made a pact before because we carpooled together for that last little part. And so before we left the car, we kind of talked to each other and said, you know, no matter what happens, we're going to tell each other whether we got it or whether we didn't get it. And so I think I got a phone call around 5:30, 5:40. I told my parents right away. And then about 10 minutes later, I texted Claire and we were both kind of like, did you, you know, did you get it, too? And then we were just so excited. I called her and we were just over the moon.

NK: And Claire, did you know that that phone call from the committee or whoever decides this was going to come at a certain time? On a certain day? What's the waiting game like?

CLAIRE WILBUR: I knew it was going to happen the same day of the interview, but I wasn't quite expecting it that early in the day. [NK: Right.] And so at first I thought, well, if it's coming this early, it must not be good news. So it was quite the shock in a good way.

NK: What did they say? Do you remember it?

CW: Oh, I do. Yeah, I'll never forget it. They said how much of a pleasure it was to meet all of the candidates this weekend. Everybody was so accomplished. They said, you know, we had to make a lot of these phone calls tonight. And I was thinking, of course. Well, that's all right. I had kind of come to terms with the fact that I wasn't successful. And then they said, but this is one of the good ones. And I was just speechless.

NK: Ladies, I don't even know you. And I have goosebumps and I'm going to cry. Two minutes into the interview. So then you get in touch. Alyssa, you got in touch with Claire. If I got the order correct, correctly there. What did you say to each other?

AX: Well, we kind of texted, you know, we realized over text that we'd both gotten it. And then I think when I called Claire, we were both kind of like, oh my God, like screaming on the phone, I don't really know if you're saying anything really, other than just some really excited noises, I guess. But then it kind of sunk in a little bit and we're like, Wow, this is so amazing. A truly, a dream come true.

CW: And from, the text that Alyssa first sent me, she didn't explicitly say whether she was successful, but I could, you know, just the way she kind of, she texted 'Any news?'. I knew that she was successful and I knew that I was so. It was so exciting.

NK: Well, yeah, I guess you have to be sort of ginger about it just in case. Right. Yeah. Well, Claire, you know, you guys have been on this journey together since childhood, and, you know, you're at different universities for your undergrad, as we've said. But you know, it's normal for even the closest of friendships that start that young that people drift apart. What do you think has kept you together?

CW: I think our common interests have kept us in touch. We've always had to kind of put in a bit more effort than other friendships because we've been apart since the beginning of high school. So it's so easy these days to pick up the phone or send a quick text message. And we always make an effort to see each other when our paths do cross and we're in the same city at the same time.

NK: And Alyssa, what about for you? Why do you think you've stayed not just in touch, but such close friends and now twin Rhodes Scholars, I guess.

AX: Yeah, I echo what Claire said exactly. I think they also have very common values too as people. So every time that we do connect, I find that conversation is just like we never picked up.

NK: And Claire, do you... You know, you said that you had both been prepared to be honest with each other, preparing for the possibility that neither of you might get this or that one of you might and the other wouldn't. How do you prepare for that, though?

CW: Well, Alyssa and I both have our own set of long term goals. And even though they are the same, in fact, to become physicians someday, we know that there are multiple ways to achieve that and to find success in our own way. And so I think it was easy to accept that one of us may be successful while the other isn't, or we would both might be unsuccessful in this endeavour. But finding comfort in knowing that no matter what, we would support each other and find our own way to success.

NK: Did you both want to do this from a young age, or was there a point in your high school or university careers that that one of you said, I think we should do this?

AX: I think it might have been Claire who had the. Yeah. Oh, you go.

CW: No, no, you go ahead.

AX: I think it was Claire, actually, who wanted to be a physician in the first place. I do remember, I think it was third grade. We were filling out those cards that say, when I grow up, I want to be blank. And I remember I was sitting next to Claire, and she wrote she wanted to be a doctor or maybe a paediatrician at that point, something like that. I had no idea what a paediatrician was. I was like, oh, I look up to Claire, so, I went I'm going to put paediatrician too. So I definitely think Claire was probably first on the journey to becoming a physician, and then I probably understood what it meant and more formally pursue it later on. But I think it was Claire who had that passion first.

CW: Funny, that's almost exactly what I wrote in my personal statement, about from a young age, not even fully knowing what being a doctor would entail, but knowing that, that's what I wanted to do. And then it was almost this form of manifestation where I set it and people saw my interest and it opened up opportunities to be exposed to the health care field.

NK: There'll be time for fun too, I'm sure, though a lot of hard work obviously as Rhodes Scholars. How are you both preparing for your time, your reunion as well in England?

CW: Hopefully it will involve quite a bit of travel and exploring our, the city that we're going to call home for the next at least two years.

AX: Yeah, I would say the same of just, you know, experiencing a new culture and such an amazing place like Oxford. And I think hanging out with each other to maybe we'll finally get all those coffee, coffee chats and eating breakfast together that really kind of missed out on in the past eight months. It will be really fun to do that as well as best friends.

NK: I'm sure there is coffee in your future as Rhode Scholar, wishing you both all of the luck. Not sure you need it, but Alyssa, Claire, I appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

CW: Thank you.

AX: Thank you so much.

CH: Alyssa Xu is in Amherst, Massachusetts. Claire Wilbur is in Sackville, New Brunswick, and they are both 2025 Rhodes Scholars.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Part 2: S.A. Illegal Mining, GST Question Period, Neuro Chip Study, FOA: Emily Carr Sale

S.A. Illegal Mining

Guest: Busi Thabane

CH: A subterranean standoff is taking place in South Africa. For weeks, police have surrounded the entrance to an abandoned gold mine in the northwest. Far below ground, there are hundreds if not thousands of illegal miners known as Zama Zamas. They're either unable or unwilling to come to the surface where they face arrest. So far, the government has refused to rescue them. Police say they could be armed and pose a threat. And at one point, officials even cut off supplies of food and water to try to force the miners out. All of which has advocates worried about the miners safety. Busi Thabane is the general manager of the Benchmarks Foundation, which studies and monitors the impact of mining on the environment and communities in South Africa. We reached her in Johannesburg.

NK: Busi, what's the situation at this mine right now?

BUSI THABANE: Well, at this present moment, we still have miners trapped underground. How many? We are still not sure. Police seems to think we have about a couple of hundreds or maybe a thousand couple. We are not sure. But what we do know is that about a thousand of them have already come up to the surface over the past few weeks. And what's happening now is government is trying to get somebody to assist, some experts, mining experts to design some way of getting a cage down there in order for them to bring the miners up. But, of course, the safety of that cage is still being assessed at this point. So it's a waiting game at this point.

NK: How have they been able to survive down there for all this time?

BT: Well, for the first two weeks or so, it has been very hard for them because the police, in trying to get them back to the surface, have cut off all food supply and water supply for them. So we were very worried. And I think that is the reason why a lot of a, couple of civil society organizations got together and did an urgent court application on Saturday and the court ruled against the police and ordered them to start allowing them to receive food and drinking water, which is very welcome. But we were worry that they're going to get dehydrated, they're going to get sick. A body was already brought up last week of somebody who had died, so we don't know we don't have an idea this point that, how many are healthy, how many are sick, how many need medical attention down there. But the food supply and water supply has now started again. So that is a bit of a relief.

NK: And the cage you mentioned, does that suggest that the government is now willing to do what it was unwilling to do before and send assistance?

BT: Well, at this point, they are complying with the court order because the court order said they should find a way to get them out. And I think that is what they are doing, because I think everybody realizes that the longer they stay in these, the longer this disaster continues. So I think it's in the best interest of everybody that they are out and they are healthy. Yeah.

NK: And the ones that have come to the surface that you mentioned, what has happened to them?

BT: Those that have come out have been arrested and they have been processed. And those that need medical attention have been hospitalized. And the President did say at the beginning of the week that this is what government will do, of course, because the end of the day, there have been some criminal charges of trespassing and etc... So those that come out and are healthy enough will be arrested and processed and those that need medical attention will be taken care of. But the end goal is for them to be arrested according to government. Yeah.

NK: Our listeners heard in the introduction a moment ago a little bit about Zama Zamas, it's a Zulu word for hustlers. But just tell our listeners a little bit more about why they are down there in this mine, in these large numbers in the first place.

BT: Firstly, historically, South Africa, mostly mining has been a big part of the economy over the years. Mining in Africa has been around for probably over a hundred years or so. But over the past 20 years or so, we have seen a decline in the large scale mining due to various reasons, probably the shaft is very difficult. Now they have to go deeper. It has become more expensive at that level. And you find that mining companies now just closed their operations and they retrench workers. And then these workers, they find themselves unemployed. They are very low level skilled workers. And then in addition to that, we have the extremely highest unemployment rate in South Africa. We're looking at about 35 per cent unemployment rate. So if you don't have the skills. It makes it even worse for anybody. And then this becomes very lucrative. So as large scale mining closes down, it is becoming a little bit more profitable for small scale miners to mine because they have less overheads and they don't have to worry about safety issues and etc... So it becomes a little bit more profitable for them.

NK: Is it just small scale miners, as you said? You know, there's this there's this lack of work, these skilled workers who need money and can do this work. But is it just small scale mining operations or are there bigger forces, even criminal forces at play.

BT: This small scale mining becomes a little bit more profitable than large scale mining. We find that these criminal syndicates then take advantage of these situations. They find these open shafts or they hire people or they recruit people to go into these shafts. The miners themselves don't make much money out of it, but the people that trade and sells this gold really make money.

NK: What is the government doing to try to prevent more of these kinds of illegal mining operations from going ahead? Because clearly, the one we're talking about today is not the only one that's active.

BT: No, exactly. Over the years, we've made a number of submissions to government about this. In 2022 our Auditor General released the report on these abandoned mines in South Africa. And she had a number of six thousand abandoned mines in South Africa. And the recommendations from that report, we should also edit, as well to the government, was to say that they need to speed up the formal closure of these mines because the mining companies have long been gone now some of them cannot be held accountable to close these mines, so the responsibility falls entirely on the Department of Minerals to close these mines by. That process has been going on very, very slow.

NK: It's remarkable that when a large mining company ceases to operate there or ends its operations and leaves, that they're not closing it before they leave. Why wouldn't they do that?

BT: Yes, definitely. We have seen that. And that is also a failure on government side. And we have called them out on this because any one of them mining, the mining charter that we have, there is a [inaudible] Act that states that a mine, how it should be closed. And as part of the mining companies operation, they also have to have a mine closure plan and government has to make sure that when the mine nears its end of the life cycle, they have to make sure that all that they need to do, they have complied with the environmental rehabilitation off the land that they've been operating in, the social impacts in the community, the post mining economy activities have to be catered for and the actual physical closing of the mine. And if all of those scenarios are satisfied, then government releases a closure certificate. But over the years, we have had one certificate that has been issued over more than 20 years, one certificate. And that is what is worrying.

NK: Busi, I appreciate your time. Thank you for this.

BT: Thank you.

CH: That was Busi Thabane, the general manager of the Benchmarks Foundation. We reached her in Johannesburg.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

GST Question Period

CH: The Trudeau government's GST holiday has not exactly put their opponents in a festive mood. At a press conference today, Prime Minister Trudeau announced the two month sales tax suspension on a list of holiday items and everyday staples. Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre promptly went full 'bah humbug' on the plan, calling it a, quote, temporary tax trick, unquote. The NDP, meanwhile, has agreed to help the Liberals pass the necessary legislation. But in question period, NDP MP Don Davies said this.

SOUNDCLIP

DON DAVIES: Mr. Speaker, Canadians need relief while CEOs are raking in billions in profits. Families are getting gouged on things like their heating, cell phone bills and at the grocery store. Now the NDP has called on the Liberals to remove the GST on life essentials to give Canadians a break. Instead, this government responded with a partial version of what the NDP proposed. Liberals let people down. Conservatives want cuts. Why will the Liberals give Canadians a real break by permanently removing the GST on life's essentials? [agreement and applause].

SPEAKER: The Honourable President of the Tertiary Board. Minister of Transport.

ANITA ANAND: Mr. Speaker, its tax free on essential goods for the holidays! That's great news for Canadians, Mr. Speaker. Also supports for Canadian workers 18 million Canadian workers getting cash back. Mr. Speaker, more good news for Canadians on this side of the House are fighting for affordability measures on the other side of the House, what do we got? Partisan games, Mr. Speaker, how can they claim to speak for Canadians when they can't even speak for themselves?

CH: Treasury Board president and Transport Minister Anita Anand responding to a question from NDP MP Don Davies.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Neuro Chip Study

Guest: Andres Lozano

CH: Health Canada has approved a clinical trial of a brain chip implant called NeuraLink, intended to give paralyzed people the ability to use digital devices just by thinking. The company, which was co-founded by Elon Musk, has already implanted that device in two patients in the U.S. Toronto's University Health Network will conduct the study. Dr. Andres Lozano is a neurosurgeon and lead of the CAN-PRIME study at UHN, and we reached him in Toronto.

NK: Dr. Lozano, UHN's CEO Kevin Smith, as you've seen, says your hospital will be, quote, "the first and exclusive site for this trial in Canada". How are you feeling about being in that position? At the forefront, really, of this research here?

ANDRES LOZANO: Well, we're really excited about this project because it is really pushing the frontier of neuroscience and giving patients who are paralyzed and unable to move a way of activating devices and improving their function and hopefully restoring function and improving their quality of life.

NK: Just tell our listeners a bit more, doctor, about how this device works, what it looks like, what it does.

AL: Well, these are patients who are paralyzed. They have either spinal cord injury or ALS, and they're unable to move their arms or legs to any significant extent. Yet their minds are intact and the brain is working normally. So these patients can think about movements and we can record these neuronal signals that are generated when patients thinking about movement. We can decode them and then we can feed them to a cursor, computer cursor or to a robot to make, to translate these signals into an action. And so it's really the ability to take these thoughts and translate into action as a consequence of being able to put electrodes in the brain record from these neurones. And getting these neurones to do their work and us learning to understand what they're saying and to translate what they're saying into actions.

NK: So how will you and your team test this device?

AL: Well, our role is to implant the device. We're going to implant over a thousand contacts in the brain. These are very small, smaller than a hair, electrodes that go into the brain and we can record hundreds and hundreds of neurones from the brain. So these neurones are spontaneously active and they increase their activity when someone is thinking about moving. And so we're able to record the electrical signals from these neurones and then through a process of engineering, through machine learning, we're able to translate that pattern of neural activity and feed it onto a computer cursor, for example. And then the patient is going to think of moving the cursor in a certain direction or clicking. And the patient's actually able to do that with their mind.

NK: Do you have the patients lined up for this?

AL: So we got approval to do this only a day ago. And so now we actually have permission to seek patients. So our next task is to identify patients who may be eligible for this and to then screen them and to see, indeed whether they meet all the strict criteria and whether they want to indeed go ahead with this experimental procedure.

NK: There will be, perhaps not surprisingly, a lot of interest and a lot of excitement from those who are looking for help and improvements in their conditions. But it's also important in these situations and I'm sure as physicians, you discuss this as well, the need for tempering expectations and caution even in an exciting point of research. How do you temper those two things?

AL: Yeah, we know. I mean, the patients are extremely courageous to take on something that is new. There have only been two human beings in the world have had this. So far, it looks good. It looks like it's a safe procedure to go through but, we'll only know after several more patients just indeed how safe it is and whether it's indeed and durable, whether we can use these signals and record these signals over a long time. And finally, does it have a real impact on the patient's quality of life and day to day life? So these are unanswered questions, but this is a long journey. And we are starting with two patients already implanted in the United States and we hope soon to be able to offer this to Canadians as well.

NK: How long do you expect this project to take? When you say a long road?

AL: Well, the actual surgical procedure will take 2 or 3 hours. And then it's a process of the patients learning to control these devices. And the study is expected to go on for a minimum of one year. So we expect the patients to commit to using the device and working with us and with NeuraLink for at least one year. But we hope to, for them to use it for their whole lives. Actually.

NK: There might be those who are concerned about putting a device like this into their brain. Safety and privacy reasons might come up. You talked a little bit about safety, but are those privacy concerns merited as well?

AL: Yeah, because we're recording the signals. We're harvesting signals from the brain and then sending them to a computer, for example. So there is a possibility in theory of being able to hack into those signals and be able to read those thoughts, if you like. So I think that we have to have the necessary precautions and the necessary safety. We all have to be aware that this is a possibility and we have to take the necessary steps to ensure that this is safe and that this information stays confidential to the patient and the team.

NK: Have you ever tested anything similar to this doctor?

AL: We've done things similar using, for example, EEG signals. So the electric, the brain generates electricity and when you think of something like moving, the electricity pattern changes. And so with those changes in electricity pattern, you can control a device. And so this is much more refined. This is a recording from thousands of neurones and we're able to decode what those neurones are doing. And I think that, you know, the first step is to control a cursor on a screen, to be able to click, to be able to play chess, to be able to play a video game. But eventually we think that these signals might be able to control a robotic device so that patients can, for example, you know, feed themselves when they're paralyzed, whether they could, you know, be helpful with their activities of daily living.

NK: Can you imagine a device like this, you know, if you're successful at the end of this, that it could help the others who are not quadriplegic or not paralyzed?

AL: Right. Well, we envisioned that this device could be used for other things. So, for example, restoring blind you know, restoring sight to people who are blind. So we could you know, the model here is to take, for example, a video camera and then implant the electrodes on the other end of the camera with a cable into the brain directly. So if someone has diseases in their eye or in the optic nerves, we could go directly to the brain areas that process, vision and feed that information there. And in so doing, restore blindness. So that's another example. The same for hearing. The same for many other things. So this is really just the beginning. And we think that this type of technology could be used to restore many of the functions of the brain that are impaired as a consequence of disease or injury.

NK: Dr. Lozano, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

AL: Thank you.

CH: That was Dr. Andres Lozano, neurosurgeon and lead of the CAN-PRIME study at the University Health Network in Toronto.

[Music: Calm instrumental]

FOA: Emily Carr Sale

CH: A few months ago Allen Treibitz was at a barn sale in New York State. He's an art dealer. I assume he goes to a lot of barn sales. I also assume most of the barns are full of junk, no offence to the barns. But at this sale he spotted a small painting of an Indigenous memorial post, done in broad strokes. It was signed by some artist; he didn't recognize her name. Nevertheless, he bought it for 50 bucks. And this week that painting sold at auction in Toronto for 349 thousand dollars Canadian. We spoke to Allen Treibitz last month before the auction. He told Nil what he thought when he first saw the painting.

SOUNDCLIP

ALLEN TREIBITZ: It was something special. You could tell it was stand out from the rest of the things you see in my travels as a dealer. It just stood out and, you know, it was definitely, definitely had a look that was special.

NK: What were some of the details that that made it special? If you could describe that for our listeners who haven't seen the photographs of the painting yet.

AT: Well, it was painted boldly. The image is very cool and Indigenous looking, an odd animal, a bear on a totem pole in the middle of like a rural housing area. It's kind of cool. You don't see subject matter like that all the time?

NK: And then your eyes glance down to the bottom corner. What does it say there?

AT: It says M. Emily Carr. And the area that it was painted in Masset, Western Canada.

NK: Yeah. QCI 1912. So, seeing Emily Carr did that set off the alarm bells.

AT: No, that's the point. I mean, there are thousands if not tens of thousands of great artists and I see great works by many different artists, but I just put it in a package of things that I was acquiring that day knowing that it was something special. I did a quick research because that's what I do. And I realized, you know, she had some pretty big importance. So, I didn't really get to do a lot of that research until I ended up with it and started moving back towards the west end of Long Island.

NK: And so, when you get back, how long after that did you realize really what you had purchased?

AT: Slowly it kept building. Since I am a dealer, I have avenues to do research. And that's how I ended up finding Heffel, which has been an amazing partner in this, you know, looking at auction results and doing her biography and her history. She's pretty significant. So just kept building on value as time went on, You know, as I kept delving deeper and deeper into researching and her history and her work, it kept building in significance and, you know, realizing that Heffel, the auction house, was the right place for it to be.

CH: From our archives, there was art dealer Allen Treibitz speaking to Nil last month. And that auction house was the right place for it to be. This week, that painting sold at auction for 349 thousand dollars Canadian.

[Music: Jazzy instrumental]

Part 3: Harper Pension Fund, Hunting Heart Attacks, FOA: John Prescott Obit., Home Care Relief, Turkish Monument, Para Boccia Champ

Harper Pension Fund

CH: Stephen Harper has a new job and it has Alberta union leaders worried. Yesterday, Alberta's United Conservative Premier, Danielle Smith, announced that the former prime minister would be taking over as chair of the province's big pension fund corporation. The Alberta Investment Management Corporation, or AIMCo, manages nearly 170 billion in assets, including the public sector pension plans of around half a million Albertans. Mr. Harper's hiring is part of an unusually dramatic stretch for AIMCo. Historically, it has flown both under the radar and outside any appearance of political involvement. But now it's been two weeks since the sacking of the entire AIMCo board after profits didn't live up to expectations. And Premier Smith says she's hoping Stephen Harper's pro bono appointment will be a step towards, quote, giving all Albertans confidence in the long term sustainability and success of AIMCo, unquote. But this morning, Alberta Federation of Labour president Gil Gowan wasn't sounding very confident.

SOUNDCLIP

GIL GOWAN: That money doesn't belong to the Premier or her government. It's the retirement savings of literally five hundred thousand working and retired Albertans, and they're counting on it for their retirement security. And importantly, they did not give Danielle Smith or her government permission to fire AIMCo's professional board and replace it with what is clearly a political board. And on that point, I'll just make the point that while Stephen Harper has lots of government experience, he has zero pension experience. And so what we're afraid of is that this board is going to manage all these assets which are once again, they're not government assets, they're the retirement savings of Albertans, but they're going to start managing based on their own agenda and their own priorities rather than on the priorities of the people who put the money into these pension plans for their retirement security. That's a big concern.

LOREN MCGINNIS: So when, you know, you reject the Premier's characterization that they've done this to bolster an underperforming fund and you're worried about the politics, what are you worried is about to happen?

GIL GOWAN: Well, we don't trust Danielle Smith and we don't trust Stephen Harper. And I'll tell you why we don't trust Danielle Smith, it's because of the things that she's been saying over the last year since becoming Premier. So, for example, she said that she wants to create a sovereign wealth fund in Alberta that can be used to support the government's agenda. And it looks to us that she wants to take, you know, you know, basically turn our pension funds into a political slush fund. And we also don't trust Stephen Harper, partly because, as I've said, while he may have a lot of political experience, he has zero experience in pensions. But I also think we need to ask, what has he been doing since he left public office? And what he's been doing is rubbing shoulders with billionaires and oligarchs and shady governments all around the world. And I think there's a real question that should be asked, will he be working for us or will he be working for them?

CH: That was Alberta Federation of Labour President Gil Gowan talking to Loren McGinnis on The Calgary Eyeopener.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Hunting Heart Attacks

Guest: William Morrone

CH: Traditional deer hunting season in which hunters use firearms has only just begun in Michigan. And already three people are dead after suffering heart attacks while hunting. Now, the chief medical examiner for the state's Bay County is warning hunters that it is a strain to hold a rifle and a greater strain to haul the heavy animals. He also says the Department of Natural Resources should require proof of a physical before allowing people to hunt. Dr. William Morrone is the chief medical examiner for Bay County, and we reached him in Bay City, Michigan.

NK: Dr. Morrone, at what point did you did you realize that this wasn't just one case, but potentially a bigger pattern?

WILLIAM MORRONE: I think I expected some cardiac problems from people with sedentary lifestyles just maybe once or something. But what happened is we had a death in the field and then six hours later we had another death in the field and the next morning we had another death in the field. And when we decided to accumulate our autopsy schedule, three out of four of the, three out of eight people were cardiac deaths that were related to likely cardiovascular disease and people with sedentary lifestyles that went out hunting.

NK: The men who died or 57, 65 and 83 years old. You mentioned cardiac arrest. Is it possible, though, that it's just a coincidence, just a spate of deaths in the midst of the season?

WM: No, because I collect medical histories from investigators, from the police. And then my pathologist said that everybody had moderate to significant coronary artery disease.

NK: And the connection to deer hunting. What were they doing in those moments?

WM: People were engaged in walking, moving animals, transporting themselves, strenuous activities that only began because of deer hunting season.

NK: For those who are not hunters or aren't familiar with how popular it is in Michigan, how would you describe the onset of the season, how significant it is there?

WM: This is a rite of passage. You're looking at a spellbinding activity that in 2022, 586 thousand permits were issued for deer. We only have 9.5 million people in the state.

NK: Have you ever encountered a series of deaths like this in your time there?

WM: No, in 14 years, I'm a medical examiner. I've never had three cardiac deaths back to back in the first 48 hours of deer season. It's the end result of sedentary life, the advancing cardiovascular disease, and probably some post-COVID sedentary lifestyle changes, so.

NK: That's why you think it's happening now?

WM: Yeah. And, you know, let's be honest about cardiovascular disease. It is so prevalent. Our diets are so bad and people don't get exercise. It is worse than it's ever been and people are obese. And I do think medically the system is broken. It doesn't look for the have the preventative part of this. And that's, sort of my advocacy is for this is every one of these deaths and every one of the heart chest pains that are admitted that didn't die. These are all preventable.

NK: Are you getting a sense, doctor, at this stage that the message you're trying to send is being received, given, you know, the headlines that have come with this story. It surprised you. The series of deaths, I'm sure it surprised other people as well. Are people taking your advice?

WM: What I'm hearing from the media is that this is an 'ah ha' moment. It's like, oh this makes so much sense. So I hope that 'ah ha' moment encourages health care systems and hospitals to begin to offer these. But what I also hope is that it wakes up the legislatures to seek to create a better health care system because it costs thousands and thousands of dollars to go into these remote areas and remove the deceased. And a preventative exam is, you know, 100 bucks, 200 bucks, maybe 300 bucks, with your doctor. So the legislators are going to pay for first responders. They're going to pay ambulance. They're going to pay sheriffs. They're going to pay, you know, maybe the fire departments to go get people thousands of dollars when these people could be alive with their families. That is the big tragedy.

NK: The other thing that you're advocating for and pushing for is that hunters take a physical as part of their licensing to be able to hunt in Michigan.

WM: And here's why that makes sense. A lot of people go, oh, that guy is crazy. If you want your daughter to be in the dive team, if you want your son to play football, we require them to have physical exams. And these are healthy young people. Now, you're going to go out a couple times a year with heart disease, cholesterol, diabetes and high blood pressure and just pick up a rifle and a backpack and expect to walk 5 or 10 miles a day. And they go out and they're naive or ignorant to how much risk they're involved in.

NK: We reached out to the Department of Natural Resources. We're awaiting a response. Have you been in touch with that department about this suggestion of having mandatory proof of physicals before a hunting license is given up? And by the way, the department has said that license sales are way up from last year after years of decline.

WM: Way up, yes. Maybe over half a million, maybe six or seven hundred thousand. You know, they're not going to answer a guy like me. They're going to think I'm some kind of crackpot, but...

NK: Why not you're a chief medical examiner.

WM: I'm the examiner in five counties and, you know, I actually am a specialist in preventing death beyond, you know, just writing death certificates. But I think there's a bureaucracy. And if you come up with a good idea first, nobody buys into it. This has to be their idea. And what we'll try to do is reach out to the legislator and have them write bills to craft this kind of preventative medicine being embedded into licensure. Because Lord only knows we have a lot of stupid laws that don't mean anything. Let's write some laws to really help.

NK: Dr. Morrone, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

WM: Bye bye.

CH: Dr. William Morrone is the chief medical examiner for Bay County. We reached him in Bay City, Michigan.

[Music: Whimsical instrumental]

FOA: John Prescott Obit.

CH: He was known for his direct style and no nonsense attitude. And today, people across the UK's political spectrum are remembering John Prescott as a powerhouse politician. Mr. Prescott has died after a battle with Alzheimer's disease. He was 86. He served as the UK's deputy prime minister for ten years under Tony Blair. Through that time, he played a key role in bridging the gap between the modern labour movement and the party's traditional working class values. Like all politicians, he had his highs and lows. From rescuing a kayaker in need to punching a protester who threw an egg at him. And he usually stuck to his guns, which is what he did in an interview on this program in 2011. At the time, Canada had just withdrawn from the Kyoto Protocol on climate change. And as a chief architect of that agreement, Mr. Prescott was not happy.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHN PRESCOTT: I recall negotiating the agreement, the first agreement, the Kyoto one in 1997, and the Canadian then agreed for a cut of 6 per cent. But of course, the new government under Harper in '06 decided and told me quite bluntly in 2006 they had no intention of implementing the Kyoto agreement. So it came no surprise to me. So the tactic of pulling out was to do with the propaganda of trying to stop a Kyoto two.

CAROL OFF: But we've heard from our own Environment Minister, Peter Kent, who has just returned, he said the objections of Canada are that with the United States and China, the two largest emitters of CO2, they're not on board with Kyoto. They produce more than 40 per cent of the world's emissions. Why should Canada be part of it?

JOHN PRESCOTT: Canada is amongst the top 10 wealth, actually countries. She's also amongst the top 10 when you measure the carbon output per individual, Canada. And we were the ones rich countries, including Europe, that actually poison the world. I think what I find so offensive about Canada is that having accepted originally a seven, six, seven per cent cut, they went down to 17 per cent. And now you're present, Environment Minister. He actually says that eight was a blunder. Well, that's his judgement. And secondly, to sign up, the other party signed up for Kyoto. Secondly, it will cost some 14 billion pounds. Well, if it's costing you, that means you are buying credits because you did absolutely nothing to achieve those targets and produced the 17 per cent plus. The reality, I think, is more to do with your sand tar, isn't it? Canada appears to be wanting to get the wealth from the sand tar, pollute more and add to the world's difficulties owing too much carbon. I mean, the reality is that we did pollute the world and two thirds of the world, many of them live on less than two dollars. Surely it must begin to say it's not fair to ask us to carry this burden. You've mentioned per capita, if you look at America and Canada, that per capita, each person production of carbon is in the region of 20 tons per person. In China, it's six. In India, it's about two. And you have to take into account if you want any justice, they scale, the amount of carbon that's being produced. And don't forget what that represents. If you live in a rich country and you're producing 20 tons, it means you've got a car, you've got a nice house. You're involved in the prosperity that produces more carbon and expect the poorer countries to carry the consequences of which that science dictates to us about the increase in carbon and the connection to climate change. It's an arrogant attitude. Is there not some moral obligation to allow these other countries to grow from their poverty and two dollars a day. And therefore, if the carbon is actually limited, there has to be what the UN said was the principle a common purpose but differentiated responsibilities. And that's absolutely right. Canada has just said we don't give a damn about that. That's what it boils down to.

CH: From our archives. That was former UK Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott speaking with Carol Off in 2011. Mr. Prescott has died after a battle with Alzheimer's disease. He was 86.

[Music: Meditative instrumental]

Home Care Relief

CH: Mary Isaac used to crawl upstairs to tuck her kids into bed. It's just one of many ways the Mi'kmaw woman had adapted to life with cerebral palsy. But two years ago, a car struck her wheelchair while she was crossing a street in Antigonish, Nova Scotia. Her injuries mean she needs homecare around the clock to allow her to care for her kids. But last month, the Federal Indigenous Services Department withdrew its support, telling her she'd have to find solutions at the provincial level. Funding was set to expire today, but now Indigenous Services Canada has given Ms. Isaac an extension until January 31st while her appeal is underway.

SOUNDCLIP

MARY ISAAC: It's a relief. But I'm also up against the same thing that I was when it started, you know, like when I initially got help through Jordan's principle. So I'm still up against trying to find an alternative. And I don't know I don't know if there is one.

JACK JULIAN: How does it feel to be in that position? I guess that's, it's still the same as before.

MARY ISAAC: Well, yes. And it's it sucks. And it takes a lot of energy and a lot of time that I could be spending time with my kids with, you know, instead of having to gather documentation saying why I need this help. It's I mean, it's a really layered thing, right? Because, like, I'm an Indigenous person that also happens to have a disability. So it's a really layered thing because, you know, because I'm just simply asking for help with my children and that's it. Like it's, there's nothing in terms of like there's nothing wrong with how I parent in terms of that. And like I just, due to the accident I'm just asking for some help for the sake of my children, right. And that's kind of where I've always been like on this, about like, it's about my children and not me.

JACK JULIAN: So how do you keep going?

MARY ISAAC: I think it's just because I like, I'm a very determined person to begin with. And I maybe it is because I have a disability. Because if you, if you tell me that I can't, I will show you I can. But that's just me, though. But, you know, to repeatedly have to go there in terms of a mindset is, it can get tiring from time to time. You know, what I mean, like and sometimes you just want to chill and drink your coffee.

CH: That was Mary Isaac in Antigonish, Nova Scotia, speaking with Jack Julian on Information Morning in Halifax.

[Music: Violin instrumental]

Turkish Monument

Guest: Mark Munn

CH: In western Turkey, there's a monument called Aslan Kaya, which translates to Lion Rock. It's about 26 hundred years old. And for more than a century, an inscription on that monument has been at the centre of an archaeological debate. Researchers aren't sure what it means. Some have even suggested it could never be understood. But Mark Munn thinks he's got the answer. Mr. Munn is a professor of Ancient Greek History and Archaeology at Pennsylvania State University. We reached him in State College, Pennsylvania.

NK: Professor Munn, let's first give our listeners a mental picture of what Aslan Kaya looks like.

MARK MUNN: Yes. Well, it is a volcanic spire, about 15 metres tall, standing alone on the edge of a small valley, and on the face of it has been carved the impression of the front of a temple building with a gabled roof and a doorway. And inside of that doorway was an image of a standing figure of the Phrygian goddess with two lions standing on either side of her. And above that, in the gable were two sphinxes. And on the side of this standing Rock was also the carved figure of a large lion, [NK: hence the name of the monument.] It has been damaged. In recent times.

NK: What does the inscription look like?

MM: The inscription is at the base of the gable above the doorway. It is very worn. The whole face of this facade has been heavily weathered, and there are bare traces of parts of letters that have been made out. Some of them were described tentatively when the monument was first described in the 1880s and photographed in the 1890s. But scholars who visited it since then have considered that the inscription is really illegible. So it's difficult to read, but I was lucky to find that when visiting it with the light in just the right angle, I could actually make out some of the traces of letters and actually confirm some of the earlier readings.

NK: And what does it spell?

MM: Well, the part that is, actually can be read because it is on a slightly protected part of the inscription are the letters M-A-T-E-R-A-N in the Phrygian alphabet spelling out Materan, the name of the Phrygian mother goddess.

NK: So when you're there and the light hits just right and you see those letters appear before you more clearly than others have been able to see, it seems. What is that moment like for you?

MM: I will admit that when I was there visiting the monument, I did not expect to be able to read the inscription because, as I say, all the published descriptions say that it's illegible. And it was not obvious when I was looking at it and photographing it from a distance when I studied the photographs up close was that they actually were traces that could be made out and compared to early photographs, could actually complete some of the letter forms that appeared there.

NK: So your detection, but also better camera resolution and lighting. Is that what it came down to?

MM: Well, yes, The key is having the sunlight at the right angle, having a good enough camera that can take, because this inscription is actually about 8 or 9 metres off the ground. You can't get close to it with a telephoto lens. You can photograph it from a distance.

NK: And there are 19th century archaeological reports, as you know, and as you've mentioned, that referred to the goddess as well. What do you hope that what you've been able to photograph and uncover bring to the discussion and debate about these sites?

MM: First of all, the confirmation of associating her name with the images is a step forward. Also, my examination of the photographs revealed details of the style of this particular facade that I believe help us to be more certain about the date of it, which should be sometime in the early sixth century BCE. And if that is established and recognized, that tells us something about the history of the regard for this goddess that was at its high point after the peak period of Phrygian civilization, which was in the time of the famous King Midas in the late eighth century, beginning of the seventh century. This seems to be a monument about a century later, during the period when the Lydian Kingdom was ruling over this part of Phrygia and the Libyan kings were honouring the Phrygian goddess as an important deity in the lands they ruled over.

NK: What do you want listeners to know, what do you wish people knew about the Phrygians that isn't widely known now?

MM: These monuments are amazing blend of both manmade architecture and in a striking natural setting and they speak to the reverence that the ancients had for this goddess who they believed ruled over nature, was a force that gave life to living animals and humans in the countryside. This particular part of Phrygia is a source of some of the streams and rivers that feed the land around about. And I think they attest to the impressive power that this goddess had over the people who lived there and how she was revered also by the powerful rulers, in this case the Lydian rulers, who, under whose leadership these monuments were created.

NK: Is that reverence for a female, for a goddess, rare in those times?

MM: No, not at all. If one looks into ancient goddesses, you will find that Anatolia is a land which is rich in traditions of powerful mother goddesses, of which the Phrygian mother, who is also known as Cybele, or the mother of the gods. But she's often been identified in ancient times and in modern scholarship with deities like Aphrodite and Demeter, also with Mesopotamian, Ishtar. Powerful goddesses were a relatively common feature in these ancient kingdoms because the powers of nature and also the power of being the generator of kings and rulers. She was considered to be the mother of King Midas in a symbolic way as well. So human power, even power vested in kings, was often attributed to a powerful female deity and the Phrygian mother is one of those.

NK: Professor Munn, I'm glad we could speak. Thank you.

MM: My pleasure. Thank you for being in touch with me.

CH: Mark Munn is a professor of Ancient Greek History and Archaeology at Pennsylvania State University. We reached him in State College, Pennsylvania.

[Music: Upbeat instrumental]

Para Boccia Champ

CH: At 48 years old, Para athlete Liza Puri is still competing. Her days of sledge hockey and wheelchair basketball may be behind her, but her career in boccia has only just begun. After only eight weeks of professional training, Luisa is now a Canadian Boccia championship bronze medallist. That's Boccia, the para sport version of bocce, with help from a performance partner, her trusted service dog Helix and a retired Paralympian coach. She managed to get on the podium for Team Ontario at her first national competition. Here she is telling the CBC about that achievement.

SOUNDCLIP

LIZA PURI: I'm very competitive. I don't like just playing for no reason. I'm very competitive. I used to play sledge hockey as well I was competitive in that. I used to play wheelchair basketball, I'm competitive in that I rock climb also. So if I want to do something, it has to be competitive. Well, I'll tell you a little story. So we weren't allowed to, my sports assistant and coach and I weren't allowed to have any, you know, joy in winning on the court. I had to do respect for the other players. So we had time to go the athlete, we had like an athlete lounge. So we made sure nobody was there where we could basically, you know do what we wanted to do. So we ran in there, my performance partner, which is my sports assistant, and she says let's go to the athlete lounge. Let's go to the athlete lounge. I was like, Why? Why do we need to go to the athlete lounge? She's like, come on, just let's go. And she started pushing me. So we get into the athlete lounge, my coaches is laughing right now, get into the athlete lounge. And I'm like. Why are we in here? So, are we alone, my sports assistant said. And I'm like. I assume we're alone. I don't hear anybody. Because I have some vision issues. So when something's really close, I can't tell if anything's there. She basically started jumping up and down. I started crying because it's my first medal from the national level, so I'm just proud to represent Ontario.

ISH BHARGAVA: What do you love about this sport?

LIZA PURI: What is not to love about this sport is the question. What's there not to like about, love about the sport. I mean, I just love it. I just love it. And that's all.

CH: That was Liza Puri speaking with the CBC's Isha Bhargava.

[Music: Theme]

CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC Listen App. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after Your World Tonight.

NK: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on As It Happens on our website, cbc.ca/aih. I'm Nil Köksal.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

[Music: Theme]

The AIH Transcript For November 21, 2024

Social Sharing