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The AIH Transcript for November 15, 2024

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Failure to send. Canada Post workers are going on strike right before the busiest time of year, which is stressful for people right across the country, including our guest, a small business owner who relies on the mail.

CH: And rolling with the punches. The president of the University of Waterloo says the Ontario government needs to pony up more funding because without it, there will be a lot fewer spots, even for the province's top students.

NK: Action packed. Russia and North Korea officially ratify a military treaty, solidifying an alliance that has ominous implications for their neighbours.

CH: The realist deal. The late Tom Forrestall was one of Canada's most respected painters, and while his work was realist, a curator and friend tells us he wasn't afraid to bend the rules.

NK: Hang in there. Three years after it was snatched and replaced with a fake a Yousuf Karsh portrait of Winston Churchill, known as 'The Roaring Lion', is back in its rightful place on the wall at Ottawa's Château Laurier.

CH: And LOL hell breaks loose. TL;DR a new study suggests that those who text using abbreviations are perceived as less sincere and NGL TBH short forms could be the reason that you're not getting a text back. Just FYI BTW. As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that still has its initial misgivings.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Canada Post Strike, Tom Forrestall Obit., FOA: Churchill Returns, Texting Abbreviations

Canada Post Strike

Guest: Melanie Sampson

CH: They're sending a message by not sending yours. Today, Canada Post workers across the country went on strike after their union and the National Postal Service failed to reach a new collective agreement. Certain mail, such as pensions and unemployment insurance, will still be delivered, but regular mail has ground to a halt as the two sides tackle issues including wages, job conditions and job security. The federal government has appointed a special mediator. But with the holiday season approaching, small businesses are getting very nervous. Melanie Sampson is the owner of "hi, love. greetings", which sends handmade gifts and cards. We reached her in Auburn, Nova Scotia.

NK: Melanie, we've known for a while that a strike could be on the way. You woke up to the news. Were you ready for that reality?

MELANIE SAMPSON: I'm not sure I was ready. I thought that I was prepared. You know, you plan and you hope for the best. Prepare for the worst. But when you actually wake up and go, oh my, I need to pivot in every possible way to try to keep my business going through the holidays. It's a bit of a shock.

NK: Well, let's talk about that pivot. Most of your business is online, so what will this mean for your shipping costs right out of the gate?

MS: Sadly, I think that it means that a lot of things just won't get shipped at all. The things that do get shipped will certainly cost more. It really will come down to if there is another shipping alternative that I can use for a particular person's address or if they're willing to pay that much more. For example, if I'm selling a greeting card for 10 dollars, I can't imagine somebody will willingly pay 20 or 25 dollars or more to have it shipped.

NK: That's a huge jump. What would it be normally if the strike wasn't happening?

MS: I typically use letter mail, particularly within Canada, so even an oversized letter mail, it's usually about a dollar 94 plus tax within Canada. So, you know, I'm on the East Coast, I ship all over Canada and letter mail is the far and away popular choice because it lets me not pass along a lot of extra costs to my customers.

NK: Well, it makes a lot of sense. You know, I wonder this morning if your inbox has been filling up with messages from customers or cancellations. What are people saying so far?

MS: I haven't had any yet. I'm actually still drafting a message that I will be sending out and reaching out to anybody whose order I think is affected because with letter mail, of course, there is no tracking and I have no idea where some of these packages that I've shipped out over the last 5 to 10 business days, which is a typical letter mail transit time where it might be. Otherwise for the orders that I have outstanding, I'll be reaching out to folks one by one. Some may just need to cancel and I'll be handing out refunds, which is really tough this time of year.

NK: Even without this Canada Post strike. How have you seen expectations around shipping times change?

MS: It's definitely shifted. There seems to be even more so in the last few years an expectation that just because you sell something online, no matter if you are a solo entrepreneur or a small to medium business, that you can maintain the standard that these mega Internet corporations have set. And they are just quite frankly, unrealistic. And it is not within my power to put together orders and ship them out and have them across the country or across the continent in two days. It's just never going to happen. So when I receive an email from a customer, say, from Etsy, who's upset that their order to California has not arrived in 48 hours from me on the east coast of Canada, it becomes tough to explain that, you know, I'm not Amazon, I'm not a mega corporation, that I have no control once it's in transit of how long it takes truly to get there. It becomes a tougher conversation, especially with cross-border shipping, because it is just this unrealistic expectation that folks have. And it's really hard because that can often be the deciding factor between do you shop from this little handmade shop or do you shop from the mega corporation who's promising you something only they can deliver.

NK: Timing is crucial here. It can be a form of leverage, certainly for striking workers and their union. What will this timing mean for you?

MS: I honestly don't know, and I think that's what worries me. But I also know that as a small business owner, you have to be able to adapt and pivot really quickly. I'm looking at hand-delivering a few orders in my region. The timing, honestly, I get it. You know, I hope that they strike a fair deal, I really do. But it just means that I'm not going to be earning over the holidays.

NK: And how much of your earnings are made in this window?

MS: A vast majority. Christmas is by far the biggest gifting holiday for me. And doing in-person markets is really tough. Anyone who's done it knows that. So this year I had actually cut back on the number of markets that I was planning on doing. So I only have a couple of real small local ones remaining between now and Christmas. So there's no way that I will, you know, sort of go through my plan to supply just by attending those couple of markets. And it'll be an interesting challenge. You know, I'm grateful and I'm privileged that, you know, my husband works, I work at this. We'll make it by I, you know, that's okay. And I'm very grateful and lucky to be in that position. But it will certainly impact what investment I'm able to make in my business in the new year. How I plan for next year as a whole will depend on how I do over the holidays.

NK: You have your hands full; I can hear. We won't keep you too much...

MS: That's my little kitty cat named Holly and she's very upset that I'm not playing with her right now.

NK: Okay, Holly. We'll let you get back to Holly in just a moment. But on the issue of, you know, a deal being made hopefully and hopefully soon for all involved, the Federal Labour Minister Steve MacKinnon, said to reporters this morning, quote, I'm not looking at any other solution other than negotiation right now, unquote. What would you like to see the Labour Minister do? Would you like to see an intervention, as there has been in other job action across the country?

MS: I'd like to see the employees get a fair deal. That's what I'd like to see. And I'd like to see it happen so that we have a system that works and that's sustainable because it's a service that we all need and I think our country needs. So I'd like to see some support from the government in terms of if they need more mediation or something. But I would like to just see it resolved as soon as we can with a good, fair deal.

NK: Melanie, I appreciate your time. Good luck with everything.

MS: Thank you so much.

CH: Melanie Sampson is the owner of "hi, love. greetings", which sends handmade gifts and cards. We reached her and Holly the cat in Auburn, Nova Scotia.

[Music: Strings instrumental]

Tom Forrestall Obit.

Guest: Ray Cronin

CH: His paintings captured Atlantic life and landscapes with an impressive amount of detail. But the late Tom Forrestall, who has died at the age of 88, was anything but conventional. He was one of Canada's most esteemed realist painters, and his passion for the work is clearly evidenced by the sketchbooks he filled growing up in Nova Scotia's Annapolis Valley. Later, hundreds of those sketchbooks went on display at the Beaverbrook Art Gallery in Fredericton, where he briefly worked in the late '50s. Here's Mr. Forrestall talking about the purpose of those sketches.

SOUNDCLIP

TOM FORRESTALL: They're pretty rough. You know, there's not, there's no pretty little pictures in here. They're nothing refined or finished. They're as I say sort of grubby, little sweaty, little workhorses that lead me places. The vision in your mind's eye has an unearthly perfection. There's something almost divine about that vision in your mind's eye. Because you can hold it in your mind's eye. But you can never hold it in your hand.

CH: The late Tom Forrestall talking to the CBC. Ray Cronin is an artist and the curator of Canadian art at the Beaverbrook Art Gallery. We reached him in Fredericton.

NK: Ray, it's so beautiful for me to hear that. As someone who knew Tom Forrestall and his work, does what you heard there match up with the person you knew.

RAY CRONIN: Oh, absolutely. Tom was very philosophical. You know, he thought about his work and what making work meant. Anyone who's ever seen the back of a Tom Forrestall painting, they're usually covered in text with ideas about what that painting or drawing was about. So one of his favourite sayings was, "Everyone looks, but few see", he was very interested in that slowing down. And him talking about workhorse drawings for him, to inspire him, hearing that I can see I can see him leafing through his sketchbooks. It's a very interesting to hear it.

NK: Elsewhere in that interview, he talks about that process of making something great that you could flip through those pictures in those sketches in the book. And they're not all great. And I think to artists, that would be kind of freeing to hear as well.

RC: Absolutely. Well, I mean, you know, Tom never felt that he really got too great. You know, he always felt that no matter how pleased he was with something, it could always be better. And that's what drove him to make the next piece. He always felt that, he had this vision that he was trying to get out. And the vision was so perfect and making it in material. You know, it was always harder. And but he never stopped, never stopped trying to make it perfect. To make it live up to what he was, you know, what he had in his mind's eye.

NK: What do you see, Ray, when you look at his work at the gallery? What do you perceive?

RC: I see a painter. Who, Tom was a contradiction in, you know, he was a committed realist. And for somebody who came of age as an artist in the 1950s, choosing to make realist paintings was you know, it was kind of political, right? I mean, realist painting in the '50s was seen as being very conservative. And, you know, artists who were on the cutting edge were doing abstraction. And by the time you got into the '60s, it was pop art and minimalism and performance art and Tom just sailed through all that. He was intent on what he wanted to do. But he also was, was a very revolutionary painter in that he wouldn't except, you know, he, one of his favourite sayings was that we have to break the tyranny of the rectangle. He just thought why should every painting look like a window, right. Like, why should they all be the same shape? And he advocated constantly that paintings could be whatever shape the artist wanted and it could add more, more power to a work. So, you know, there's a painting hanging in the art gallery right now that's shaped like an hourglass with clouds at the top and then this narrow little spout going down. And then it opens up again to cows in a field, and then it narrows again. And then it opens up at the bottom into a pool of water. And you get so much, you know, it actually is a much more dynamic. And I think, you know, kind of cutting edge feeling painting. He really did try to push boundaries of what he was doing. And people kind of, he got put in the Atlantic realism box in which, you know, he was proud of the artists that he was associated with. But he did try and was doing things that were outside of the norms for painting. I thought, you know, I thought he was someone who was really always trying to be innovative. And that's, when someone is well into their 80s. And still changed the way people think about painting. That's really impressive.

NK: He was on our show in 2015 after painting, when you talk about breaking rules, he painted his own 34 year old Mercedes to represent the four seasons. I know, I think he wasn't entirely happy with how it turned out. But do you remember that project?

RC: I do. It was fantastic. Yeah, it was fun. And, you know, but it was also typical Tom, right, Because he got a new Mercedes out of it. Right. And buying that Mercedes was such a huge step for him. But then he kept it for 34 years.

NK: It was a sponsored project.

RC: Yeah. Yeah. You know, so it was something where he, that was his car that he had owned for 34 years. He bought the car when he got, when he sold a painting. His wife, Natalie encouraged him. But he was he was not the guy that was getting, you know, a new Mercedes every year. [NK: Yeah.] He kept that one on the road running beautifully, maintained beautifully for 34 years and then got his sponsor to do the painting with Mercedes.

NK: I'm glad you mentioned Natalie, because in earlier coverage that CBC News did with him, he talked quite, quite beautifully about the fact that she was his muse and that because she took care of everything else and encouraged him to keep painting, he did keep painting. She kept him doing the work. But what drew him to it initially.

RC: I think part of it may well have gone back to. So, Tom had epilepsy. And you know, in the 1930s and '40s, there was much less medical help for him and it sort of cast him outside of the community. He was not able to participate as fully in sports and other kinds of pursuits that people were. You know, he wouldn't go hunting with his cousins. But with art, art was something that he could excel at without it being affected by his medical condition.

NK: You met with him just last week. What did you talk about?

RC: So he and his son Frank had set up an art gallery in a huge house in Dartmouth. And they had his granddaughters, Marie's work in it, and there's Tom's work. And some of, you know, Frank has work there. And so we were just walking around looking at these objects and he was talking to me about he, he always wanted to write a book about shapes and about the, you know, the shape of paintings and about...

NK: A tyranny of the rectangle.

RC: How to break the tyranny. [chuckles] And he was you asked what he was working on and he was working he was doing a series of watercolour paintings of shells. So it at least up until last week, he was working away, which I love knowing.

NK: Me, too, Ray. Thank you.

RC: Oh, my pleasure.

CH: Ray Cronin is an artist and the curator of Canadian art at the Beaverbrook Art Gallery. He's in Fredericton.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

FOA: Churchill Returns

CH: 'The Roaring Lion' is back home. That is the title of a photo of Winston Churchill taken by the late Canadian photographer Yousuf Karsh during the darkest days of the Second World War. And Mr. Karsh gave a print to the Château Laurier, the Ottawa hotel where he worked and lived. But nearly three years ago, it was stolen. Today, though, the Château held a ceremony to mark its return. There were speeches from hoteliers and politicians and the Ottawa detective responsible for tracking the portrait down to an unsuspecting buyer in Italy. That buyer was a collector named Nicola Cassinelli, who gave 'The Roaring Lion' up when he realized it was stolen and he sent a letter to be read at today's ceremony.

SOUNDCLIP

LORI WAGNER: Dear friends. For almost two years, I've had the extraordinary privilege of living with the remarkable masterpiece of art and history I had hanging in my living room without even knowing it. An artwork whose significance goes beyond its mere beauty. The magnificent photograph by Yousuf Karsh captures in the eyes of Sir Winston Churchill, the pride, the anger and the strength of the free world. And it represents better than any other the desire for the triumph of good over evil. This is a work that cannot belong to one person and cannot be confined to the private space of a living room. 'The Roaring Lion' belongs to anyone who cherishes freedom. For this reason and out of my deep respect for the Crown, the government and the people of Canada, I did not hesitate to return it. Waiving my rights as a good faith purchaser. And the financial benefits I could have derived from it. I am pleased that today 'The Roaring Lion is once again on display for the public who can enjoy one of the most significant photographs in our history. Thank you.

CH: That was Lori Wagner, the Château Laurier's director of marketing reading a letter from Nicola Cassinelli. In September, when news broke that the case of 'The Roaring Lion' had been cracked. Nil asked Mr. Cassinelli what it had been like having the famous photo all to himself.

SOUNDCLIP

NICOLA CASSINELLI: It was like having the Mona Lisa in your living room. Something doesn't happen every day, of course.

NK: When did you first realize that something might be wrong?

NC: In October 2022, I received a phone call from the auction they told me at that time there was an ongoing investigation about the theft of a copy of the same portrait. In I think November 2023, I was called back by the Auction House, who asked my permission to give the Canadian police my contacts. And in January this year I had the opportunity to speak a couple of times with the Ottawa Police, who explained to me that, according to his evidence, my portrait was the stolen one. And so, I decided to go to the Carabinieri. And after a few weeks, they called me to confirm me that it was the stolen one. So, at that time I decided to return it to Canada because of the historical value it has…

NK: Did you have a choice to give it back or not?

NC: Yeah, I have a choice because I am a good faith buyer. So, I bought in good faith and I was not obliged to give it back. They would have needed to start a lawsuit against me to obtain it, but I didn't want it to happen. I just wanted to...

NK: You wanted to do the right thing it sounds like.

NC: Return it, yes, because I don't buy art to exploit it. I like art. An artwork is, I mean, cannot be construed as just private property.

NK: Was it hard to let it go?

NC: Yes, it was hard. But I thought that being a part of history is much more valuable than keeping that portrayed for me. You know, it's something incredible. I can confess that the day I gave the portrait to the Carabinieri, I also bought online a replica copy of this, of this portrait for a few dollars so that I still have a replica of that.

CH: That was Nicola Cassinelli talking to Nil in September. Today, 'The Roaring Lion' was officially returned to its place of honour in the Château Laurier in Ottawa.

[Music: Jazzy instrumental]

Texting Abbreviations

Guest: David Fang

CH: Lmk if u are a short texter. That you was the letter 'u' btw. Lol nvm. I know I sound very cool, but you have to admit those abbreviations don't work quite as well in a verbal context. And according to a new study, we really shouldn't be using those abbreviations at all, at least not if we want to be taken seriously. Researchers at Stanford University and the University of Toronto have found that people who use abbreviations when texting are perceived as less sincere and are less likely to get a response. David Fang is the lead author on the paper and we reached him in Stanford, California.

NK: David, It kind of makes me cringe just to see this, let alone say it out loud. But our producer Cassie is making me. Hru, David?

DAVID FANG: Hey, Nil I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.

NK: I love a full sentence. Thank you, David. You were inspired to do this in large part because of your brother. What, was there one text in particular or a series of texts from your brother that triggered this for you?

DF: I can't recall kind of a very specific text, but I do recall an experience where I sent him, I think, two paragraphs worth of text. And I think we were going on family vacation and we're just planning the trip. And then he just sends back kind of, kind of a single 'K' and a thumbs up. And I was just kind of blown away by how little effort he put in.

NK: Like, I poured my heart out all the details. K. Yeah, I hear you. Like maybe a happy medium between the two of you might be the best result. But let's get into the details of, of your research. You looked at text for more than five thousand people. What specifically were you trying to find there? What were you looking for?

DF: Yeah, so we were looking at texting, abbreviations, so essentially shortened versions of texts. Like, for example, using the letter 'U' instead of the word you when you're kind of texting. And we wanted to know whether kind of using these shortened versions of texting words could influence how other people kind of perceive how sincere you are when you're texting.

NK: And how did that use of abbreviation change the way the messages were received? We know how you received them and how I might receive them, but in general, how were they received?

DF: Yeah. Through 18 experiments we found I mean, through 10 experiments. We found that kind of when people see messages with abbreviated text, generally they perceive the other person as being less sincere and consequently they're less likely to reply back to the text and want to continue a conversation.

NK: I wonder if those folks want you to reply though when they just reply with a thumbs up with a 'K'.

DF: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. So I think in general, people kind of want to maintain positive relationships, at least through text. So it's kind of surprising, that it happens quite often.

NK: What did you find across different age groups? Because I think there's an assumption that there's a divide here.

DF: Yeah. Yeah. So, generally young people tend to use more abbreviations for the text. But we actually found that young people, they don't like abbreviations just as much as older people. So it kind of they perceive the other party as being just as insincere when they kind of view the abbreviations. Quite surprisingly.

NK: That's good. That challenges, some of those stereotypes. I know our producer rolled her eyes at some, she said who's writing these things? Well, nobody writes like this. I don't know how she feels about paragraph text, though. We'll research that later. How does your brother feel about being a catalyst for all of this?

DF: Yeah. So he feels quite intrigued. And so ever since then, he's actually tried to make an effort to improve kind of his texting habits. [NK: Oh?] Yeah.

NK: He heard you. Is he younger than you?

DF: So he's six years older than me.

NK: Ah, see. Challenging that that misconception again. What do you, what argument would you make to people to try to convince them if they are writing hru and lmk, btw all of that, what would you say to them to try to convince them to give the whole word, maybe the whole sentence a try?

DF: Yeah, for sure. So, I'll say that if their goal is to try to build better relationships that are longer lasting or perhaps kind of invest a bit more time, time and be more thoughtful as to how they composer texts. So kind of, when they're kind of looking at their texts, maybe spend some time kind of thinking about how the other party might feel when they send out that particular text and what kind of text they would prefer receiving.

NK: Do you think people should eliminate abbreviations altogether?

DF: So, I think that the conclusion shouldn't be that people should stop using abbreviations altogether. So I think that kind of, that said, abbreviations exist for a reason. So it's really common. We generally find that over 90 per cent of people tend to use abbreviations routinely. So I'm sure that it exists for a reason, maybe particularly to save time. So maybe in some relationships where we're not super interested in kind of having a long term kind of sustainable long term relationship, perhaps like, for example, if you're texting like, a delivery driver through Uber eats, perhaps it's more optimal during those periods of time to use more abbreviations.

NK: Definitely don't write them a paragraph. Yeah.

DF: Yeah.

NK: David, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

DF: Yeah. Thank you so much.

CH: David Fang is a doctoral student at Stanford University, and we reached him in Stanford, California.

[Music: Jazzy instrumental]

Part 2: University Funding Warning, Soleiman Faqiri Doc, NK/Russia: Treaty, Men's Sewing Workshop

University Funding Warning

Guest: Vivek Goel

CH: Ontario universities are once again making it clear that they are in trouble. A new report from a Council of Ontario universities warns that without more funding, a hundred thousand spots for new students could be cut across the province over the next few years. The authors write that a litany of financial strains have stretched post-secondary institutions thin, among them higher salaries, tuition freezes and a federal cap on international study permits. University of Waterloo president Vivek Goel says his university is facing a 75 million dollar shortfall this year. We reached him in Waterloo.

NK: Vivek Goel, doing the work that you do and looking out at the landscape on your campus, financially anyway. What worries you most about the situation you're in right now?

VIVEK GOEL: So the thing that's most worrisome is that we're losing sight of the future. And that's, I think, what this message is really about. If the current government policies continue, we will have to cut back on programs and services for our students and the number of spaces that are available. Furthermore, those students, those graduates are the future of our country, our society, our economy. And by cutting off the access for those individuals, our most talented students are going to look for opportunities elsewhere. And we're going to lose that talent from Ontario.

NK: And then they'll stay wherever they study often and get jobs there is what you're saying?

VG: Absolutely, yeah.

NK: When you talk about potential reductions, what does that look like on a university campus or in a university classroom?

VG: Well, so the first thing is, you know, trying to maintain the services for the students with our diminishing resources. And so that will mean that we won't have you know, it could be something as mundane as classrooms and facilities might be cleaned less often, and that's going to affect people's experience. To larger class sizes, longer wait times for different types of services like writing labs. There's a whole range of things that will start to deteriorate that will have an impact.

NK: The report from the Council of Ontario Universities says, you know, right at the outset quote, "We acknowledge the government's initial investment of nearly 1.3 billion dollars over four years across 23 universities and 24 colleges as a crucial first step towards stabilizing the sector". You know, our listeners tuning in will say that certainly sounds like a lot of money, but you and the other schools are saying it's nowhere near what you need. Why is it not enough?

VG: Yeah. So, you know, it is certainly a very substantial amount of money and we're very grateful for that support. As the quote notes, that does cover a lot of institutions. That total of 1.4 billion dollars included a number of different funds. The amount that was actually around the financial sustainability was closer to 800 million dollars. And when you split it out amongst all the institutions, the shares that individual institutions got was a fraction of the deficit that they were facing. Furthermore, that money is for three years, and there's no guarantee about what happens beyond that. And so, again, from an institutional perspective, it's very difficult to plan for the long term. The higher the faculty take, there's a lead time for recruiting the talented faculty that we need. And without the certainty of what that funding is going to be in the future, it will, we won't be able to meet the demand when it comes to us.

NK: And we should also say that the expert panel that the government commissioned last year to put together this report and make its recommendations had recommended 2.3 billion dollars in spending increases.

VG: Yeah, recommended many times more. And they also recommended that the tuition freeze be unfrozen so that the total revenue that the institutions got would be even greater. And so if they're the quote from the blue ribbon panel, the amount that they recommended was predicated on the tuition also being unfrozen.

NK: We requested a statement and received a response from Ontario's Ministry of Colleges and Universities. It reads in part, quote, Funding for post-secondary institutions is higher than it's ever been, unquote. And when the provincial report came out last year, the then universities minister, Jill Dunlop, said she would not agree to any significant fee hikes until schools looked at all possible efficiencies. So what do you say to those who ask, is Waterloo operating as efficiently as possible?

VG: So first of all, in any organization there's always room for efficiencies and we're always looking for those. But we have had decades of this trend and so we have been doing many things to make ourselves more efficient and effective. You know, the other part of that response, the initial response that you got today, the funding, certainly that was a significant increase. But the blue ribbon panel also showed that Ontario universities have the lowest funding in the country for the amount of students that we teach. And so in that, you can look at those numbers and see we are already operating incredibly efficiently relative to other institutions. But that doesn't mean we won't look for more efficiencies as we always do.

NK: 15 per cent of all students are international students at Waterloo University, as I understand it. So how much of this is an issue of provincial underfunding or Canada's federal government cutting off a significant revenue stream for you, given what's happened on that front? Is that a bigger problem?

VG: No. So the 75 million dollar shortfall that we had in the current year and that we forecast for the next year, the loss in international tuition revenue represents a very small fraction of that. It is obviously an important impact that will compound in future years if the trends don't turn around. But right now, our budget pressures are primarily driven by the caps on the government grants and the tuition fees. And then the you know; the reason international students grew was because of the limitations on provincial funding. So, you know, I'm not going to get into this government, that level of government. I think all levels of government need to look at that in this, in a coordinated way.

NK: Vivek Goel, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

VG: Thank you.

CH: Vivek Goel is the president of the University of Waterloo. We reached him in Waterloo.

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

Soleiman Faqiri Doc

CH: When he died in 2016, Soleiman Faqiri was 30 years old. And last year, a coroner's inquest confirmed what his family had believed all along, that he had been killed by correctional officers during his time in an Ontario jail. Mr. Faqiri was a top student at the University of Waterloo when he was in a car crash at the age of 19. He was later diagnosed with schizophrenia. His brother, Yusuf says he subsequently changed into a different person. A new documentary called "My Brother, Soleiman" focuses on the time he spent waiting for a medical assessment in jail, which wound up being his last days alive. Yusuf Faqiri has been campaigning for accountability since his brother was killed and has told his story on this program in the past. Today, he told David Common, host of Metro Morning, about the systemic change that he wants to see now.

SOUNDCLIP

YUSUF FAQIRI: When someone loses their life at the custody of the state, when they're vulnerable and these inquests, although they're not binding, what these inquests do is just because they're not binding, the government has an opportunity to implement it. They can just ignore it. And when they keep ignoring coroner's inquest recommendations, when more and more deaths happen, it says to us that the system needs to change. So just because it's not binding does not necessarily mean the government shouldn't implement it. And what this also says to me is that people suffering from mental health challenges, their lives are viewed as cheap. It's not viewed the same way as others. And this is very tragic.

DAVID COMMON: This documentary has been made. It's called "My Brother, Soleiman". In the documentary, there is this interview with a correctional officer who was there at the time. His name is Clark Moss. What was it like hearing him recount his experience?

YUSUF FAQIRI: You know, it was powerful. I wish there was more people like Mr. Moss within corrections. It just shows a difference in how Mr. Moss treated Solei and the guards that treated him the last day of his life. But it says to us, gives us some glimpse of hope when you have individuals that show compassion.

DAVID COMMON: What did he say? What did he say about that.

YUSUF FAQIRI: Solei changed his life, that interaction with Solei changed his life. Solei might have been gone but Mr. Moss, that interaction, allowed Mr. Moss to reflect within himself and to see what he's doing and to hear that. It says to me that Solei mattered. And it says to me that my brother's voice and his life had some value. And to hear that, it gives me hope that there's many, Mr. Moss', within the correctional system.

DAVID COMMON: You say that about one individual, you have hope that there are more. But has the message that you have received since that coroner's inquest said to you, your brother’s life mattered.

YUSUF FAQIRI: Canadians across the nation have reached out to me. They give me hope. Individuals that have suffered from mental health challenges have given me hope. Just because government hasn't acted on the inquest recommendations does not mean that I should stop. It gives me more resilience and persistence to continue. And that one day, just one day, the system will change. Might not happen in my lifetime. But Soleiman mattered. He was a brother. He was a son. And I'm not going to stop until I make sure that his tragedy has an impact into the policies that make policy change within corrections.

CH: That was Yusuf Faqiri speaking to David Common, host of Metro Morning in Toronto, about the new documentary, "My Brother, Soleiman". It's available on CBC Gem and the CBC Docs YouTube Channel.

[Music: Piano instrumental]

NK/Russia: Treaty

Guest: Khang Vu

CH: They already had a relationship, but now it's official. North Korea and Russia have pledged military support to one another, promising to come to each other's aid if either is attacked. Both countries ratified the pact this week and earlier this week, a U.S. State Department official said 10 thousand North Korean troops have already massed in the Kursk region of Russia. Khang Vu is a North Korea analyst and writer and a visiting scholar at Boston University. We reached him in Boston.

NK: Khang, what do you think is motivating this pact right now? What is in it for Russia and in it for Korea to make this alliance official?

KHANG VU: I would say that this is probably a marriage of convenience. So the war in Ukraine in 2022 and Russia not kind of going well with it, kind of opened the door for the North Korean to say to the Russian that, hey, we can provide artillery, we can provide arms, and maybe we can provide men if you, if you Russians need to. And the military pact is just a way for both countries to formalize that level of military exchanges.

NK: What do you think the rest of the world should be most mindful of right now when we look at the developments between Russia and North Korea?

KV: So I would say that there are two things that we need to be mindful of. The first one is whether the North Korean troops, they would wear the North Korean military uniforms in the future. So, so far that they have only worn the Russian military uniforms. So that suggests that there might be some degree of restraint on the North Korean. They don't want to provoke anyone. They just want to send the soldiers there, earn money and go back. But if the North Korean soldiers, they wear North Korean military uniforms and that's sent a big signal to everyone that they are invested and they are willing to stand side by side with the Russians. The second thing that we need to look at is whether North Korea would allow its troops to go deep into the Ukrainian territory, which is the eastern part of Ukraine under Russian occupation right now. So per the Alliance Treaty, the North Koreans only defend Russia, Russian soil. So that means that it's unclear whether the North Korean they recognize the breakaway region of Ukraine as Russian soil. So if the North Korea they sent troops deep into Ukrainian territory to defend the Russian gains, then that is also a major escalation.

NK: And in terms of the troops from North Korea who are already in Russia, what do we know about what they've been doing so far?

KV: What we are aware at this moment is that the North Korean they have been sending probably around 10 to 12 thousand troops to the Russian region, Kursk. And the North Korean troops, when they arrive in Russia, they receive Russian military uniform. They are equipped with Russian arms and they are sent to the Kursk region to probably join the Russian counter-offensive against Ukrainian occupation there. The Russian government, they probably paid the North Korean government around two thousand U.S. dollars per soldier every month. So that is not a small sum of money for a country like North Korea. So at this moment, we have received reports that the North Korean troops have engaged in combat with the Ukrainian troops on the front line incursion, which is technically still on Russian soil. We have not seen any reports that the North Korean has actually joined the Russian advance on Ukrainian soil. So the North Korean so far only participated in the counteroffensive on Russian soil.

NK: And we should underline the fact that this is the first time North Korean troops have been stationed outside the country since the Vietnam War. I wonder, as much as you know about these countries, you know, what might it be like for these North Korean soldiers, keeping in mind they likely have very little reliable or fulsome information about the conflict that they are now involved in.

KV: So I would say that obviously for a country like North Korea, the common soldier is not allowed to understand or to interact with the wider world. But in this situation, before the North Korean government, they send troops, they already sent a lot of labourers to Russia. These people, they help rebuild or reconstruct the region that are under Russian occupation. So these soldiers, they all simply are in the same pipeline, is that they get sent to Russia. And in exchange, they get salary for their military service and which the North Korean government will take a cut of that and that will benefit the regime. I am not particularly sure how the North Korean soldiers they understand or how they will interact with the wider world because that is something even the Ukrainian government is not particularly aware of. They have been launching some psychological offence against these North Korean troops by publishing leaflets saying that if you defect to the Ukrainian side, then you can have good food, then you can have freedom and this and that. But so far we have only seen a report of 18 North Korean defections from the military, which is not a big number. If we consider the 10 thousand soldiers being deployed into Russia. So I will say that there is a limitation to how much the psychological warfare can work, because we don't know what the North Korean soldiers know about the war. Are they curious? We don't know.

NK: Do you know whether those defectors, a small number as it may be, as you said, you know, are these troops in Ukraine?

KV: There are reports that the North Korean commanders and the Russian commanders have already get those soldiers back.

NK: So they defected and then they were retaken [KV: Yep] by Russia and North Korea. What would the consequences be?

KV: I have to say that maybe concentration camp or obviously punishment of your family, if they left behind families when they travel overseas. But this is all speculation. So I have to be careful when I say so because we have no sources confirming whether, what kind of punishment they will receive when they return to North Korea or when they are recaptured.

NK: What do you think Donald Trump's re-election might mean for U.S. relations with North Korea? Obviously, Donald Trump, as you know, is known for talking loudly about his relationships with Kim Jong Un and Vladimir Putin.

KV: So one of the key points that people often miss when talking about the Trump and Kim bromance is that after 2019, when the Hanoi Summit failed, they didn't result in any concrete deals at all. And when Donald Trump lost the election in 2020, then North Korea just simply ignored him. So at this point, even though Trump was declared the winner for like more than a week now, the North Korean state media have not published any articles about his victory. That is really interesting because if the North Korean, they are really happy or they are satisfied with a Trump victory, then they might have welcomed his victory like much earlier.

NK: Khang, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

KV: Yeah, thank you so much.

CH: Khang Vu is a North Korea analyst and visiting scholar at Boston University.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Men's Sewing Workshop

CH: A group of Dene men in the Northwest Territories are getting together to sew. They're taking part in a workshop put on by Łı́ı́dlı̨ı̨ Kų́ę́ First Nation in Fort Simpson to give men of space to learn a new skill and connect to each other and their culture. Each man cut a vests worth of melton wool, heavy satin lining and traditional smoked hand moose hide trim and brought a design to embroider the vests. Wilbert Antoine brought a vest. His mother made him 60 years ago as inspiration.

SOUNDCLIP

WILBERT ANTOINE: It was really a lot of anticipation, wondering what the final product is going to look like. So today I put on a white shirt and black pair of pants. Like, I was going to a drum dance and I want to be wearing my one of a kind vest today. And I want to show it off.

KATE KYLE: You sound so proud.

WILBERT ANTOINE: I am. I am. It's exhilarating. You wouldn't, you don't know the feeling that we're having. I'm having. I'm sure everyone else is having the same, same feeling that I am. Our mom was very, very, very good at this. And one of the things that she always did when we went off to residential school in late August was she always made sure that we had real nice moccasins, nice clothes and mitts and everything else. And, you know, it all got taken away and we wore coveralls and different types of clothes and we went home with runners. We don't know what happened to our moccasins. That's always on my mind. But every day I look for something positive. And yeah, I try to forget those kind of things. I don't know if you can hear the sewing machines in the background. That's what we're doing. And my three girls says we can't wait until we see pictures of you doing the sewing machine and the ironing and all that kind of stuff.

CH: That was Wilbert Antione speaking with CBC Yellowknife producer Kate Kyle. The men are getting expert advice from Dene fashion designer D'Arcy Moses.

SOUNDCLIP

D'ARCY MOSES: It feels great. It's nice to be working with all age levels of guys from here in the [inaudible]. And it's sort of setting a precedent it used to... now we're getting to a point in time where it's not just grandmothers or aunties, mothers making vests for the men in the family, but these guys are learning how to make their own vests. And what's interesting about it is that we're also utilizing computer digital technology. And some of these guys their designs are pretty cool. It's not just, you know, like I like on my vest here, it's Dene flowers. No, they're coming up with, like, their own designs, their own colours, geometrics, really cool some very hip, some more traditional. So it's nice.

CH: That was Dene fashion designer D'Arcy Moses speaking with CBC Yellowknife producer Kate Kyle.

[Music: Bass instrumental]

Part 3: Encore: Sisters' Tale, Operation Bear Claw

Encore: Sisters' Tale

CH: Earlier this month, a young woman in Tehran stripped to her underwear in public in an apparent protest against government repression. She has not been seen or heard from since. Witnesses say security officers attacked her and smashed her head onto a car and then took her away. It's the latest in a series of stories about those who stand up to Iranian authorities, many of which we've covered on this show. In a documentary that's now playing at the 2024 International Documentary Film Festival in Amsterdam, Iranian filmmaker Leila Amini tells the story of her sister's resistance through song. For most of her life, the Iranian mother of two has dreamed of becoming a singer. That's not an easy dream for anyone to achieve. But in Iran, it's also a dangerous dream. Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, women have been largely prohibited from singing solo in public. And as demonstrated during Iran's Women, Life, Freedom movement, the consequences for those who push back can be serious and sometimes deadly. Nevertheless, in 2016, Ms. Amini made a decision to pursue her dream. Despite the obstacles in her country and in her own home, where her marriage was on the brink of collapse. And that story is the focus of "A Sisters’ Tale". That's sisters, plural. The doc was directed and filmed over the span of seven years by Leila Amini, Nasreen's sister. In September, it played at the Toronto International Film Festival, which is when the filmmakers joined Nil for a feature interview. Leila Amin from Nottingham, England, and the film's producer, Afsaneh Salari who provided translation from Paris.

SOUNDCLIP

NK: Leila, when was the first time you heard your sister sing? Can you remember that?

LEILA AMINI: Yes. [speaking Farsi].

AFSANEH SALARI: [translating] This started when I was a little kid. My dad had a very good voice, and he used to sing. My grandmother, she had a very good voice as well. And singing was a tradition in our home. So Nasreen started singing as a kid, and I heard her at that time.

LA: [speaking Farsi]

NK: So, music has always been a part of your lives. What feeling do you get -- Leila -- when you hear Nasreen sing?

LA: [speaking Farsi]

AS: [translating] I have had different sensations in different phases of my life. Listening to her voice. So -- when I was a kid -- it was very exciting to listen to her sing because our dad was a big support. He would encourage her to sing mainly in the family gatherings. And she was very brave and very bold to raise her voice and sing.

NK: You see that bravery and that boldness -- certainly -- even in the most difficult times, in your film. You know, before you started making it, what was it about your sister -- maybe those characteristics you just mentioned -- but what was it about her and her dream that made you think this wasn't just a family story, but that there was a film there -- a documentary to share?

LA: [speaking Farsi]

AS: [translating] I think the word bravery and courage is a key word, and that key word was something that inspired me to make a film about Nasreen because I think that's something very internal within Iranian women. Because they have a history of fighting and struggling. And Nasreen was not different from many other Iranian women because of that unique characteristics. So, this was something that inspired me to want to make a film about this characteristic.

NK: And now -- Afsaneh -- let me, let me ask you. You know, there are some situations where women can sing in Iran. But -- as we well know -- Iranian officials have a long history of cracking down on artistic expression, and certainly activists and artists whose work is politically motivated or political at all. Just give our listeners a sense of the rules in Iran around this, in women's singing, and the interpretation of Islam in Iran.

AS: When it comes to artistic expressions like many other kind of rules and boundaries in Iran -- it's very vague. I mean, there are some rules really set. Like -- for example -- singing for women in public is forbidden. And that's a part of our Sharia law, right? So then, this is something carved in the stone. This is something that's part of our constitution. So by law this is forbidden. But then, you have many other mediums for artistic expressions which are not necessarily part of Islamic Sharia. And when it comes to those kind of expressions, then of course, it can go case by case. But even for singing within social media and also the spread of -- you know -- a different kind of a medium where people can express themselves, then -- still -- I think there are some nuances, some grey zones. If you sing and your songs go viral, then you're way more monitored and risked than someone who may have -- like -- a small Instagram page with not many followers and sing, you know? It really depends. If something goes viral, then the authorities have to react.

NK: Yeah. And there are examples of that. Zara Ismaili is one of them. A singer who performs and shares their music online. Zara Ismaili was singing on the subway. And this video certainly did go viral.

SOUNDCLIP

[Zara Ismaili singing in Farsi on the Subway]

SOUNDCLIP ENDS

NK: Zara Ismaili's performing on that subway car without a headscarf. She was reportedly arrested in early August. Given that -- and the other arrests -- to say it is risky for Nasreen to pursue a singing career seems like an understatement.

LA: [speaking Farsi].

AS: [translating] So, singing in Iran has always been forbidden. But at some point in our contemporary history, women started to campaign against any social or civil restrictions they faced, and one of them is the right to sing. There are campaigns and communities and civil movements being created in order to somehow get back the right to sing. And in a way at some point in this solidarity between women, it went even bigger than, than the right to sing. It becomes like a civil movement. It becomes like sort of a resistance that still can add to risks of what, what women are doing and what women are requesting. And personally, I would also like to add that this kind of campaigning and this kind of civil movements are important because -- of course -- you add to the risk. But -- at the same time -- the authorities also have to step back a little bit. Because we have this expression in Farsi saying that one hand alone cannot sing. But if you add many hands, then -- you know -- you can start creating a very big voice, and you can start making a very big clap -- a very big crowd out of it. So -- in a way -- and the authorities, they have to step back, you know? They have to, and this is something that I can give an example of the scarf. Like two years ago -- before the Mahsa Amini movement -- it was so strange to go out in the street without a scarf. If you saw a woman without a scarf walking in the street, it would stand out. You would be like, because we would follow wearing the scarf so naturally because we were born and raised with that, and accept it following this law. But today -- when I go back to Iran -- you see many women, many young girls going out without the scarf because there was a movement behind it. The authorities, they had to step back. Still, they continue to arrest people. Still, they continue to criminalize the act of not wearing the scarf. But, for the people -- for the society -- this is becoming normalized. Why? Because many people got together in order to break something, you know? Break the taboo. And I think it's the same for singing.

NK: There are several moments in the film -- you know -- secret recording sessions in a car, in a dark, empty lot. Men on motorcycles come. Or when Nasreen and Leila are driving, Nasreen is driving, Leila has the camera on her, and there's traffic, and there's police around, and her headscarf slips, and they're worried -- you know -- not only because of the headscarf, but because of the fact that Leila is holding a camera. Those are tense moments where everyone stays very calm -- remarkably calm. But -- in those moments, Afsaneh -- how risky is it to be doing those things -- and for people to appear on film doing that?

AS: It really depends. I mean -- in a way, in Iran -- people get used to some sort of codes -- like security codes -- how you dress, how you behave, how you are and how you exist, how you move, how you speak. There are codes for that when you're out in the society and when you're out in the street in public. And it really depends to what extent you break these laws, you break these codes, and you pass the borders. And -- as I said -- there's not like a very strict red line for that. I mean, sometimes it can be very ambivalent, very vague. But it really depends how you play around them. And I think -- in Iran -- people have learned to turn around these codes in order to express themselves -- especially when it comes to artistic expressions. Our cinema has a very long tradition of using metaphors. Like, our filmmakers have a long tradition of using metaphors in order to express themselves. And I think that's part of the richness of Iranian cinema because it has all these layers. But also -- in daily life -- I think people have learned how to play around these codes in order to save themselves. And while cameras in Iran, you cannot carry around a camera to film everything, of course. But it's not also as if you carry a camera then you will be arrested. It's something in between that people have learned to play around.

NK: In terms of the risks -- Leila -- was it difficult to get the music producers or others to agree to be in this documentary?

LA: Yes. [speaking Farsi].

AS: [translating] there were people who did not agree to appear in the film because they were afraid those images will be used against them -- especially those who were doing all the records underground. There were also people who did not agree to appear because they were asking for a lot of money, but it was also very hopeful because we encountered people who took it really easy, and they wanted to be in the film, and they wanted to support Nasreen and support the film.

NK: You are listening to As It Happens, I'm Nil Köksal. And my guests today are Leila Amini and Afsaneh Salari, who are talking to me about their film – “A Sisters' Tale”. There is a very telling -- and moving moment -- where Nasreen -- you know -- really wants to take music lessons. She doesn't have the money, but she borrows the money, not from her husband -- Muhammad -- but is asking her son -- who was about 10 at the time -- Hamid, for that money. Afsaneh, what does that tell us? What should that tell us about what women like Nasreen are facing?

AS: I think part of it shows to what extent a woman who works at home and doesn't have a job of herself can be dependent to her husband financially. And that later refers to us the fears of the mother and the other sister when Nasreen declares that she wants to divorce because she's financially dependent to her husband. But -- at the same time -- there's this connection and solidarity between Nasreen and her son. We are aware that it shows some sort of pressure on, on the young son. But -- in a way -- it shows that -- let's say -- the hierarchy of financial independence that Nasreen had to go to her husband to have money for her music class. But she cannot because he does not agree. Then, she has to turn to her son in order to receive that money. That was a challenging scene -- to be honest -- to include in the film because it's a little bit emotionally charged to ask the money from her son. He's too young to want to support his mother. But then, I think throughout the edits, Leila and our editor, they manage to craft this relationship as it matures as well. And by the end of the film, Nasreen chooses to become a famous mother, rather than to be a famous musician because she also treasures the trajectory she has spent with her son.

NK: It's a, it's a beautiful relationship.

LA: Can I, can I add some points?

NK: Of course -- Leila -- please, yes. [LA: speaking Farsi]

AS: [translating] This scene also emphasizes the changes the new generation is going through when it comes to a woman who wants to pursue her dreams. And -- in a way -- Hamid, he shows that he believes in what she does, and he's going to continue supporting her as he grows up because this is something that is important to him. So -- in a way -- this reveals that this generation has a different view. A generation of men that they look at this desire for singing not as something luxurious or not as something unnecessary for a woman, but as a necessity. And that's how he also engages in supporting his mother.

NK: And you mentioned, Afsaneh -- a moment ago – Sara, their other sister who is in the film, and she really talks about the difficult situation they were in because their father has passed away. He's died. And she feels that Muhammad would treat Nasreen differently if their father was still alive. But she's also worried if this, if the separation or divorce goes ahead, that they will be destitute. They won't have money. They already don't have money, she points out. But in that scene -- and the others -- you know, you show how, how close this family is, how supportive the women are of each other. But the complexities of those relationships -- specifically in the context of, of Iran and what women there are facing. And -- you know -- there are times that they're pressuring her to stay with Muhammad -- even though this is a very unhappy, unhappy marriage. What were those scenes like for you? And I'll ask both of you to, to answer as you like.

LA: [speaking Farsi]

AS: [translation] So, every woman in this film somehow represents a different generation and a different mentality of Iranian women in modern Iran -- and especially middle-class. So, the mother represents a traditional religious woman. So, it's obvious it's kind of a character that we, we somehow know. But Sara is the other sister who very worried about the divorce of Nasreen. She is an educated woman. She's also a modern woman. She has a job; she has an income. But still, she represents a sort of patriarchal mentality out of fear. Because she had a lot of fears that in a society where the woman may be in trouble if you lose your marriage, if you lose your husband. And then, comes Leila and Nasreen -- both of the sisters. In a way, they want to break this taboos and they want to -- especially Nasreen as a protagonist of the film. She wants to follow her own path because she does not necessarily believe in all those fears anymore.

NK: So, Nasreen pushes ahead. We, we see her looking for a job as well as pursuing her singing. Leila, is Nasreen still singing today?

LA: [speaking Farsi]

SA: Yes, Nasreen continues to sing with the same music composer that we see in the film that joins her in the end. She is now working on her new album, but she's also getting engaged in a new project for kids. She's writing lyrics and composing music for kids. And she is using her experience as a mother and her relationship with Hannah to speak to kids and bring some sort of awareness and joy to the world of the children -- both in Farsi and in English.

NK: Is it rewarding as a sister -- not just a filmmaker, but as a sister -- to see her in this place now, Leila?

LA: [speaking Farsi]

AS: [translating] Of course, it makes me very happy. Nasreen's bravery is something very inspiring and even contagious to me. So, whenever I'm afraid of something, I just remind myself of her and what we did together with this film. And I get inspired and motivated to continue.

NK: And I wonder, how has your relationship changed and evolved over these seven years -- how you how you see each other? Because she's really grateful to you. And really powerful moments when she says that to you, looks down into the lens, and talks about what your support has meant to her. How have things changed over the years?

LA: [speaking Farsi].

AS: [translating] we have always been very good friends. We have always been very close. But I think throughout these seven years with this film and with Nasreen's past changing, something bigger than that friendship was born between us. In a way, I feel our forces, we really joined forces. And I feel there's one force that is keeping us together. As soon as one of us has something to do -- a new project or, or a problem or something -- we know that we have each other. And we have to, we can count on each other. I really feel that our sisterly forces have evolved greatly.

NK: the power of sisterhood, not to be underestimated. Did you worry ever -- though? Because you didn't know how the story would end. You're a part of it, certainly. But did you worry that it wouldn't end this way?

LA: [speaking Farsi].

AS: [translation] I had many alternatives on my mind for different endings, different assumptions how this film may end, this story may end. And it wasn't easy because all these changes within Nasreen's life were happening very, very slowly. And there was even a period for a year-and-half that I stopped because I thought, the film is finished, the story is finished. I was not filming. But -- at the same time -- I was not sure this is the end I want for this film. And then, I took the camera again as I saw that Nasreen is continuing her path. And it was a very slow path, but -- at the same time -- steady. And I could feel that things are changing for her -- slowly and slowly. And I was patient, and I kept observing these little slow changes. To the point that I realized that Nasreen is actually feeling good in her skin. She's achieved something she wanted. But more than that, I could see some little confidence in her. And I realized this is the moment I can end this story because it's as if she's arrived somewhere.

NK: Yeah. How are your niece and nephew doing -- Nasreen's son, Hamid, who we mentioned, and Hannah, her daughter? Both adorable and featured quite a bit in the film. How are they doing now? Apart. Okay.

LA: [speaking Farsi]

AS: [translation] Hannah continues to paint and sing. I think she has inherited some sort of artistic talent from Nasreen. Hamid also continues to play guitar. Both of them are very drawn to music. But for me -- as their aunt, and as someone who closely observed them for years, and filmed them for many years -- what's very important is that both of them -- of course -- they have been affected by the divorce and the conflicts and all these challenges. But I have a feeling that the future is not necessarily affected by the decision their parents made. Mainly because Nasreen and Mohammad, they made a lot of efforts to remain good friends and good parents. And to really take care of their children together. And -- for me, as their aunt -- this is the most important thing that could happen, that they still continue to keep a sense of family, even if they've divorced. And this is all for the sake of the kids.

NK: Afsaneh, you have made other documentaries about people creating music in difficult situations -- against all odds, really -- but also using music to survive those odds and difficult situations. I wonder what being involved in, in this documentary taught you?

AS: So, I think what really drives my passion most is to see stories of people that can inspire, but within all their normalcy and being ordinary. It's not extraordinary people with extraordinary powers that can change the world. No, these are very ordinary people from middle-class. People that you can face every day in the street, whether in Iran, or in Paris, or in Toronto. And -- for me, with this story -- when Leila contacted me, I saw a very ordinary woman, a very normal woman. Someone like my own sisters who live in Tehran today. That is daring to dream. And she dares to dream in her very small room behind the closed doors of her bedroom in her apartment. And this was actually very more inspiring to me than seeing people making very big changes. Because there are millions of women like her. And -- at the time -- we spoke with each other it was right in the middle of Women, Life, Freedom movement. I was living that experience from far away in Paris, and I wanted to channel my restlessness into something. And I think that project was the best project I could get involved to. Because I got inspired by Nasreen's daring as well. And -- again -- I'm faced with a very normal person that can be me, can be everyone. And I think that's the most inspiring thing about this woman and about this project.

NK: Yeah, it's interesting that you say that. And powerful what you said there. When I was watching it as well, I thought -- obviously -- this is a very specific context in Iran. They're up against a lot. But I could see very easily people, women -- wherever they're watching -- in similarly difficult marriages and situations. I can see them relating to this and feeling that connection. And -- Leila -- I wondered what you what you hope audiences at the Toronto International Film Festival -- but elsewhere -- take away from watching your family's story?

LA: [speaking Farsi]

AS: [translating] So, I think the most important is to leave the room with the sensation of acknowledging that we are all allowed to have dreams, and we're all allowed to have wishes and to follow them. And sometimes, to have just one single support can make things happen for us -- whether to be that support or whether to look for that support. And I think these are very shared human experiences, very shared human emotions that I really hope this film can transfer to people who watched the film in Toronto.

NK: Leila, Afsaneh, I'm very glad we could speak. Thank you for making time for us.

AS: Thank you so much, Nil. It was a pleasure to talk to you.

LA: Thank you so much.

NK: Likewise. Thank you so much.

AS: Thank you. Thank you.

CH: Leila Amini is the director of "A Sisters’ Tale", Afsaneh Salari is its producer. They spoke to Nil in September.

[Music: Calm instrumental]

Operation Bear Claw

CH: They were the kind of insurance claims that bear scrutiny because there was claws for alarm. In rapid succession, people submitted claims to different insurance companies for over a hundred thousand dollars of damage done to luxury cars, a Rolls-Royce and three Mercedes in San Bernardino, California. And the claimants all said they had video evidence, dashcam footage of an actual bear wreaking havoc on the car's interiors. And, you know, knowing bears probably just wreaking. But something was off. A wildlife expert told investigators there was nothing bear like about the damage. And then the whole scam truly fell apart at the seams when a search of the suspect's home turned up the evidence they needed. A shaggy and somewhat sad looking bear costume, leading to four people being charged with insurance fraud.

[Music: Theme]

CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC Listen App. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after Your World Tonight.

NK: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on As It Happens on our website, cbc.ca/aih. I'm Nil Köksal.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

[Music: Theme]

The AIH Transcript For November 15, 2024

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