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The AIH transcript for February 24, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: They can't go home again. On the third anniversary of the Russian invasion, Ukrainians who found safe haven in Canada fear they'll be sent back unless Ottawa extends their work permits.

CH: Leaving it to Chancellor. Germany has a new leader to figure out how to deal with Donald Trump -- and he'll have to cobble together a coalition government, and a member of his party tells us that will not include the far-right AfD party.

NK: Sign of the times. A billboard promoting the idea of Canada joining the U.S. is towering over an Alberta highway. The mayor of a nearby town tells us most people there want to subtract that ad.

CH: Pet project. A man in Kansas is pressuring lawmakers to make it legal for him to keep a raccoon inside the house -- so we'll try to make head or striped tail out of that story.

NK: She smelled trouble. In hockey arenas across Prince Edward Island, smelling salts are being sold in vending machines as a performance enhancer -- and one nurse doesn't think that passes the sniff test.

CH: And...hitting nowhere close to home. For a while there, the threat of impact really made an impact -- but now the chance that asteroid 2024 YR4 will slam into the Earth has shrunk to a puny one-in-20,000.

CH: As It Happens, the Monday Edition. Radio that's happy to report that it will miss us -- and we won't miss it.

Part 1: UKR/CAN Visa Expiry, 51st State Billboard, Racoon Pet Challenge

UKR/CAN Visa Expiry

Guest: Ihor Politylo

CH: Three years ago today, when Russia invaded, Ihor and Olena Politylo fled their home in Western Ukraine. And three years later they're still living in Richmond, British Columbia. But as their home country marks today's somber anniversary, and with U.S. support for Ukraine's defense wavering, it's increasingly unclear how long they'll be able to stay. The Canadian government says they need to apply for new work permits by March 31st. But that means getting their passports renewed. And in Mr. Politylo's case, that appears to mean returning to Ukraine -- which military-aged men are not permitted to leave. We reached Ihor Politylo in Vancouver.

NK: Ihor, how do you and your family mark a day like today, this kind of anniversary?

IHOR POLITYLO: It's really hard and difficult questions for us because we feel a lot of emotions right now. We're worried about our family. We stressed about all this war. They also, like, really stressed and really tired about all of this. And they just want this to end. But they also understand that this end could be end just with Ukraine has to be sure that this not going to happen again in close future.

NK: It has to be a lasting peace.

IP: Yes. Yes. Yes.

NK: When you left Ukraine and your home there three years ago, how long did you think you would be away?

IP: It's exactly three years anniversary right now.

NK: Yeah. Did you imagine it would take that long?

IP: No, no, no. We leave Ukraine in the first day of war for just two or three days, just to see what's going on, because it was really unclear what's going on on a first day of war. And we just decided, okay, we had to cross the border with Poland and think what we have to do next.

NK: You went to Spain for a few months, then you chose Canada. Why?

IP: Because we hear lots, lot of nice things about Canada and Canadian people. You hear about Ukrainian, huge Ukrainian communities here, and we have some friends, and they promised to help us when, when we came.

NK: So now, and you knew you would have to apply for, for new work permits eventually. You have to do that by March 31st. Were you surprised, then, how difficult that is, is turning out to be for you?

IP: All this, all this trouble starts with all this embassy passports and work permits around 10 months ago. It was May 2024 when Ukraine changed all the regulation for Ukrainian mans who want to use embassy services. They asked us to provide the military documents, but no one have those documents. Now, they create this app, and they're asking us, like, you have to update all your personal data, like.

NK: This is the App Reserve+. The Embassy of Ukraine in Canada told our CBC News colleagues that, that you should be able to use that. But it's not working for you?

IP: So, I downloaded app. I have, I have, I update all my contact information, but still I didn't get that military document. And it's saying, like, you have to reach out to my local Ukrainian military service.

NK: You have to be there in person to do this?

IP: It's unclear because they say, like, you have to reach out to them somehow. I sent them emails. I did everything, but no respond, nothing.

NK: And then --

IP: Probably, they expected me in person there. But all the mans in Ukraine not allowed to leave the country. Means if I go there, it's like a one-way ticket for me.

NK: You, as I understand it, we're able to visit the nearest Ukrainian consulate in Edmonton last week. What did officials there tell you?

IP: The answer was really short and clear: you have to provide us all the documents, what we have in this list. And, of course, this military paper. And for them, it doesn't really matter how I should get this document. They don't accept any, like, other papers or something like that. They was really strict.

NK: Canada's immigration minister, Marc Miller, says he will not send you and others in your situation back to a war zone. But he's also said that he's not, at this point, prepared to issue blanket extensions to the 300,000 Ukrainians who arrived under this program. What is your message to the immigration minister?

IP: Do not forget that we are just real-life people. We are doing our best to find the jobs, we find everything. We are also building our lives here. And this war, it's, it's really, like, going really long time. And every year, we are more and more growing into Canadian society. Like, now I can't imagine, like, my family life somewhere else, like not in Canada.

NK: You cannot imagine that?

IP: I cannot imagine that because my wife, she's find a part-time job, like, legal assistant. She's learning English full-time. I'm working also full-time as a maintenance technician. My daughter --

NK: She's four.

IP: She's going to daycare. She's four. She's going to daycare. When we came here, she was just two years old. For her, like, this is her home.

NK: Can you imagine a time when you can go back to Ukraine? Would you want to?

IP: Our life in Ukraine wasn't, like, bad. We just building our lives there, and we never expect, like, to leave. Like, planning to leave. But it's really hard to, hard to explain what exactly we are feeling right now, and.

NK: Ihor, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

IP: Thank you.

CH: Ihor Politylo fled his home in Ukraine three years ago today with his wife Olena and their then-two-year-old daughter. We reached him in Vancouver, B.C. On a surprise visit to Kyiv today, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau pledged 25 additional light-armoured vehicles to Ukraine, and responded to questions about the prospect of Canadian boots on the ground.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: For historical reasons, Canada, having the second largest diaspora of Ukrainians in the world, means that we felt deeply connected to Ukraine, but we also believe deeply that it's not just about Ukraine, it's about the rules, and the values, and the principles of sovereignty, of independence, of territorial integrity that protects every country in the world. All of us rely on those rules to be able to build peace and security. And we know that with the world changing, we're all going to have to do more around peace and security. One of the key themes that we heard today, as we've heard from many, many partners around the world in NATO and elsewhere over the past number of years, is people are going to be doing more on defence. Nine-and-a-half years ago, when I took office in Canada, the previous government had us down below one per cent of defence spending, even though the NATO two per cent pledge had been made a year or two before. In the subsequent time, we have more than tripled defence spending on the path to 2030, and we're on our way to two per cent. And we know we're going to have to continue to do more and more in an uncertain world, and Canada will be there. As to how we will be there, we will work with our neighbors on it, but everything is on the table because we need to make sure that might no longer makes right.

CH: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, responding to a question from Radio Canada's Marie-Eve Bédard at a press conference in Kyiv today.

[ambient instrumental]

51st State Billboard

Guest: Robb Stuart

CH: It has a certain artistic "graphic design is my passion" vibe. A giant photo of Alberta Premier Danielle Smith smiling next to U.S. President Donald Trump. Both giving a thumbs-up. To their right, a glorious blue sky, in which a majestic bald eagle glides next to a rippling American flag. And in red, white, and blue, a message: "Tell Danielle! Let's join the USA. AmericaFund.ca." That's the billboard that recently popped up near the town of Bowden, Alberta. And Bowden residents are not overjoyed to be driving past it. Which has meant a lot of headaches for Robb Stuart. He's the mayor of Bowden -- and that's where we reached him.

NK: Mayor Stuart, did you did you see this billboard or hear about it first?

ROBB STUART: Heard about it first.

NK: Yeah. How?

RS: An email came to the town at 8:20 in the morning on February 19th.

NK: It's seared in your brain, it sounds like.

RS: Yeah.

NK: What did it say?

RS: Oh, it just said that they were disgusted that they thought they'd never have to email anybody about having a sign that promotes joining the United States and a few other odds and ends in there. [NK chuckles] Most of it's not for public.

NK: Understood.

RS: Hearing.

NK: Okay. Understood. But you had to see it. Did they send a photograph as well, or did you have to head out to see it yourself?

RS: No. The second one that came in about 20 minutes later had a photograph.

NK: And what did you think when you set eyes on it?

RS: Oh, I knew what was coming as soon as I saw it.

NK: You drove out there straight away. What, what did you think seeing it in person?

RS: Yeah. Shocked. I was quite surprised. The, the billboards here have been, you know, nothing really earth-shattering over the days. Usually, they just advertise Canadian businesses like big box stores and a few fundraising things for different people or whatever. But, yeah, no, with Trump on there, I was quite surprised.

NK: And this, this stretch of road where the billboard is, can you describe it for our listeners who haven't been to Bowden.

RS: It's the busiest highway in Alberta. It runs between Calgary and Edmonton. It's a four-lane highway, actually quite a bit of it is six-lane now. And we're almost exactly halfway between Calgary and Edmonton.

NK: So, the billboard is not owned by you or the town. It's owned by a private company. What have they told you?

RS: Actually, I was surprised. They were fairly good to deal with because when I phoned them, he said that they regretted the publicity that Bowden had got. But they do not censor any billboards unless it's in violation because of obscene or whatever. They, in my opinion, correctly stated that the freedom of speech and expression is protected, and they sell the space as long as it's not violating that. I do find it a little ironic, though, that one of their statements in their company brochure says we are fiercely and proudly Canadian, [both chuckle] so.

NK: And when you, when you said that to them?

RS: They said, well, we are. It's just we can't censor any speech as long as it meets broadcasting the freedom of speech charter and rights and the Canadian Advertising Bylaw. Our hands are tied, too.

NK: But they do have a choice, right? Whether they take a sale, make that sale or not, right?

RS: I'm not sure. I would presume so. He apologized for all the bad things that have happened to the town, but he said they're just doing business, right, so.

NK: And did they tell you anything about the buyer here? The person who, or the company that put up this ad?

RS: No. A couple of the news people that I'd interviewed earlier, they did quite a bit of research into it. So, and I'm just saying what they said, I have no idea of the accuracy of it, that it's a private Canadian people that were part of the Wexit group, they were trying to separate Western Canada from Canada at one time. Western Canada would become its own country. And now, they're just jumping to say, oh, we'll join the United States.

NK: These are, these are individuals then?

RS: Yeah, supposedly.

NK: What did the, the owners of the billboard itself tell you about how long the contract is for? How long are people driving down the highway going to see that?

RS: Twelve weeks. It's been up about two.

NK: So, what are you telling folks who are upset and are going to continue to be upset for those 12 weeks, I suspect?

RS: The billboard has absolutely nothing to do with the town of Bowden. We weren't even aware of it until after the fact. We were not involved, and have no ability to have any influence on the billboard. And I have made it very clear that the town of Bowdon does not deserve the negative feedback that we've been subject to.

NK: Has it died down since the initial emails?

RS: A little bit.

NK: Yeah?

RS: Yeah, there's been a few in today, but, and the news crews came to town, and they interviewed people in the street, and they interviewed me.

NK: You seem tired with all the attention.

RS: And I heard a different, yeah, I imagine they heard a little different feedback from some of our residents, but most of them are against it. But, of course, when they get the chance to speak to the news and they get a chance to air their grievances with the town and anyway, right, so.

NK: Are there some in Bowden who like what's happening?

RS: I'm not sure about that. I imagine there is. We, we have some people that are, the one lady they interviewed, actually, I just, she said that she wouldn't be against it because we'd get lower taxes and there'd be more econom ic benefits.

NK: When you hear that opinion, how does that sit with you?

RS: Everybody's entitled to their opinion. I'm not going to judge anybody. Same as religion. Like, whoever wants to believe in whatever faith they believe in, that's fine.

NK: There's, there's the nuisance of the emails and the bad press your town is getting, the extra work it makes for you. But beyond that, and in all seriousness, Mayor, if, if more of these billboards pop up, I mean, are you concerned about that sentiment? It's, of course, people, as you say, do have the right to their opinion. But are you concerned about Bowden, and the, the province, and the country?

RS: I don't think so. I think, like, as I, one of my statements, and maybe it wasn't quite the appropriate, but I said if they want to join the U.S., nothing stopping them from moving. And this, you know, if that's their, the way they want to live their life, go ahead and do it. But try not to force everybody else into agreeing with you, like.

NK: Mayor. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

RS: Okay. Thanks again.

CH: Robb Stuart is the mayor of Bowden, Alberta. And that’s where we reached him. A company called Spot Ads rents out the billboard. In a statement they told us they are quote "aware of the sensitivity of the messaging but believe that the content of the advertisement is not in breach of any guidelines as it relates to Freedom of Speech and expression which are protected under the Charter," unquote, and it added that posting a controversial billboard message causes less harm than censoring the media.

[ambient electronic]

Racoon Pet Challenge

Guest: Stephen Kaspar

CH: To some people, raccoons are nothing more than opportunistic scavengers with disturbingly human little hands that rip apart your garbage, defecate on your patio furniture, and might be living in your shed, but you're too nervous to actually go in and check, [NK chuckles] in case, you know, they are. [both chuckle] But for Stephen Kaspar, they're the perfect pet. Mr. Kaspar has a deep love for raccoons. Which is why he is asking his state -- Kansas -- to make it legal for people to own a pet raccoon. We reached Stephen Kaspar in Lenexa, Kansas.

NK: Stephen, what about raccoons, to you, make them good pets?

STEPHEN KASPAR: They're very misunderstood. They're extremely intelligent. In fact, they have the intelligence, well, almost of a monkey. They are problem solvers. And what most people don't know is they're actually very loyal and very affectionate. They're just really, really smart little guys.

NK: But even if one doesn't harbour ill feelings towards raccoons, you know, you can think they're smart. You don't necessarily want them as a pet in your house. This, things shifted for you a few years ago, right? Your kids left.

SK: Yup!

NK: Empty nest. What happened after they left that you thought, okay, this is what I want to focus on?

SK: Well, we have a few cats, and the whole back of our house is windows. And they would, the raccoons would, come up every now and then, and, and I'm like, oh, you know what? It'd be kind of funny for the cats, give them something to do, if I threw a marshmallow out there and they could watch the raccoons eat. Well, you throw one marshmallow, you throw another marshmallow. And, a week later, I have the raccoon that I named Robbie at my door, trying to open it and bang on it. And then, jumping up and down on me to get the marshmallows. So, we just kind of progressed into --

NK: That didn't turn you off? Because that, to me, sounds like the beginning of a nightmare. [chuckling]

SK: Well, don't get me wrong, the first time I happened, I thought, okay, this is probably how I die. But what I had known up to that point is that I had already seen a couple of different families. And they are not aggressive at all. They would not get near me. And as the trust continued to happen, they got closer and closer. And I thought, well, okay. And so, then I had to literally fight them as I'm opening the door not to come in the house.

NK: So, how many are visiting you?

SK: During the spring, I get anywhere from 18 to 22.

NK: Because they've heard about your house? Word got around about the marshmallows? [chuckling]

SK: Oh, 100 per cent. Yeah, they know there's a buffet over here. And I do, just so your, just so people know, I do give them, so those are the treats that I reward them with and can train them. Every night, they get dog food, they get fruits, vegetables, whole eggs. They get the stuff that they need for an actual balanced diet. The marshmallows are just to, because they're very food-motivated.

NK: Right.

SK: I get them, get them, gain their trust a lot quicker than if I hand them an egg.

NK: You proposed this bill. It would allow people to legally keep a raccoon as a pet in their house. So, you're not suggesting that people bring in wild animals into their home?

SK: Absolutely not.

NK: How would, how would the, if this came into effect, how would it work?

SK: So, since 1966, we, the USDA, has allowed raccoons to be bred. So, for 59 years this has actually been going on. There's over 20 states that currently allow it. And it's legal, and it's all through USDA bred domestic raccoons. So, nobody's talking about grabbing one out of the, you know, I'm not talking about grabbing Robbie and bringing him inside. That would, that's, that would be irresponsible. But I am talking about these guys that are bred throughout the United States bringing them in. And then, there's a list of things that have to occur in order for you to even begin to get a permit in the state of Kansas. We put a lot of checks and balances in it. How do we ensure that people aren't just going to have a random thought I need to go have a raccoon, and can go to a pet store and buy it? That's not what I wanted. I wanted this to be methodical. And you had to jump through a lot of hoops. And it wasn't just about the owners being, being good owners, but it was about making sure that the raccoons had the enrichment that they need.

NK: What about your cats? How do you think they're going to feel about having a raccoon in the house, potentially?

SK: So, you get them when they're a baby. The baby would then be brought into the pack of the cats. I have one that, when we teach our cats, is kind of a surrogate mom. I would expect him to take that role again. And then, the other cats come around. And I actually was laughing with my wife this morning. I'm like, I can totally see our Siamese going in in the morning to help us get the raccoon out of the enclosure so he can play.

NK: How does she feel about it?

SK: Oh, my wife, she's in support of all this. She just said that if we get a raccoon, I got to take her on vacation before that happens.

NK: [chuckling] Yeah, bargaining. I see, I see what she's doing there.

SK: Yeah, I think that's fair.

NK: In all seriousness, though, obviously, lawmakers are considering what you proposed here. There's, there's some support out there, but there's also pushback, as you know. The Kansas Department of Health and Environment, a veterinarian there says they're concerned that there aren't specific rabies vaccines, again, specifically for raccoons. And that's a big health concern, obviously, for them and for people in your state and in your area. Do you understand where they're coming from there?

SK: I think it's a lot of misinformation. And let me, let me expand on that. So, it isn't a public health risk. If it was, then how are 20 other states doing it? You can actually have wild raccoons, up to six, in Arkansas. In 30 years, they've not had a case of rabies. The, any USDA bred raccoon, which is what we're talking about, there is not a single case of rabies from those breeders. It doesn't, it doesn't make any sense.

NK: You mentioned it was your sons leaving that sort of escalated this for you, got you thinking about raccoons as pets. Built on the love you already had for them. What do they make of, of what you're doing now? Your sons, I mean.

SK: [chuckle] I've always told my boys don't live an ordinary life and you don't have ordinary stories. So, they are not shocked. They laugh. In fact, one of their girlfriends came over, and she would sit in the window, and she's like, oh, they're so cute. And she goes, I don't, I'm still not sure why, you know, why you do it. And I said, well, come out here with me. And I sat her down. I said, don't move, hold the marshmallow here. Just kind of put your head down a little bit. Let them, let them come to you. And then Robbie walks right up on her, gets in her lap and takes the marshmallow. And she's like, oh my God, okay, I get it. So, they may think I'm a little nuts, but they're kind of used to it.

NK: Stephen, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

SK: Yeah, you're very welcome.

CH: We reached raccoon aficionado Stephen Kaspar in Lenexa, Kansas.

[calypso]

Zero Per cent Asteroid Chance

SOUNDCLIP

MAN: There's a meteor heading towards Earth in 10 days.

WOMAN: What? What's the speed of the trajectory?

MAN: It's traveling over 7 million miles an hour. Accelerating.

WOMAN: What?! Toward us?!

MAN: Towards the gravitational pull of our sun.

WOMAN: How did you find it?

MAN: Luckily, I have a osmium reading. It's just, it's off the charts.

CH: [NK chuckles] The classic opening scene from the 2014 blockbuster Asteroid Vs. Earth -- you remember that -- in which space genius Evan gets a spectroscopic osmium reading [NK chuckles harder] that shows a meteor hurtling toward us at 7 million miles an hour. Probability of impact: over 99 per cent. But, you know, don't worry: as you remember, they detonate nuclear warheads in a volcano, which pushes the Earth out of its orbit, and safely out of the path of the asteroid. See, everybody gets so stressed out when a giant rock is on a trajectory to destroy our planet, but ever heard of a little thing called moving the Earth? Of course not -- the eggheads at NASA are too busy saying that's, quote, "impossible to do", and Asteroid Vs. Earth is, quote, "not scientifically accurate or good." Well, fine. And anyway, good news: we're not going to have to move the Earth after all. Earlier this month, we warned you about asteroid 2024 Y-R-4: at the time, there was a one-in-32 chance that it would come crashing into our planet, seven years from now. This was frightening, although it was hard not to see an upside. But if you were worried or excited, you can now be neither. As M.I.T. Planetary Science professor Richard Binzel told Space-dot-com, quote, "The NASA JPL Center for Near-Earth Object Studies now lists the 2024 YR4 impact probability as...one-in-20,000 for its passage by Earth in 2032. That's impact probability zero folks!" Unquote. So, we can all relax. The asteroid is still sort of cool, I guess -- but it's nothing earth-shattering.

[indie rock]

Part 2: German Election, P.E.I Smelling Salts

German Election

Guest: David McAllister

CH: There's a new government in Germany today. Or -- to put it more accurately -- the makings of one. Friedrich Merz, chairman of the country's Christian Democratic Union, seems poised to become the next German chancellor -- in an alliance with the Christian Social Union party. And in a victory speech last night, he made it clear that another recently elected world leader will be a top priority for him as he takes control of the Bundestag.

SOUNDCLIP

FRIEDRICH MERZ: [speaking German] All the signals we are getting from the USA indicate that interest in Europe is clearly decreasing, and U.S. willingness to get involved in Europe. I still hope that we can convince Americans that it is in our mutual interest that we continue to have good transatlantic relations. But as is always the case, we also have to handle the worst-case scenario. And if those who prevail in America are the ones who don't just have the motto America first, but America alone, then it will be difficult. But I will continue to hope that we can maintain the transatlantic relationship.

CH: CDU chairman Friedrich Merz, speaking after the party's victory in yesterday's German elections. That victory, though, is far from straightforward: it will require the centre-right party to govern as part of a coalition that has yet to be formed. David McAllister wants to see that happen quickly -- and says it's essential that it exclude Germany's far-right AfD party, which made significant gains yesterday. Mr. McAllister is a member of the CDU's party executive. We reached him at the Hanover train station.

NK: David McAllister. How quickly do you think the kind of coalition that's necessary to govern Germany, but also stand up to the U.S. administration, how quickly can that come together, and one that is lasting?

DAVID MCALLISTER: CDU and CSU are the clear winners of this German election. And Friedrich Merz is bound to be the next German chancellor. He has now the mandate to form a government. But, of course, it will take some time. But we'll need a new government sooner than later. That's why Friedrich Merz expressed his wish that perhaps before Easter, Germany could actually have a new government in Berlin.

NK: What's your sense the morning after? Is that timeline realistic?

DM: Well, we had the board meeting of the German CDU today, and we know that Germany is facing enormous challenges when it comes to our economy, when it comes to security and defence, and how to tackle irregular migration. But the most important challenge is we need to restore confidence in our country and in our German democracy. Because one-third of the votes on Sunday went to radical, extreme parties from the far right and the far left. That is very concerning.

NK: You've said that it's your wish that the CDU join up with the Social Democratic Party, which was reduced to a third place finish yesterday. What would you say to German voters who are not concerned by the rise of the AfD, or the left, but specifically on the issue of the AfD, they would rather see you, you partner with them?

DM: Well, the coalition between the CDU, CSU and the Social Democrats is the only viable option because it wouldn't be enough for us to have a coalition with the Greens. And we have been very clear that we will not form any kind of coalition government with the AfD. The AfD is an right-wing, extreme party. They are pro-Putin, against NATO, against the European Union. They are questioning the fundamentals of the Federal Republic of Germany. These people are not in any kind of way our potential partners.

NK: The AfD's deputy parliamentary leader spoke with, with BBC News. We want to play you and our listeners a little bit of what she had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

BEATRIX AMELIE EHRENGARD EILIKA VON STORCH: The whole campaign was about mass migration, illegal mass migration. And it was about economy and energy supply. And on those both areas, areas, AfD has a very, very clear program. And on that same area, the CDU was campaigning on it. So, they promised to their voters that the two main topics, migration and economy, they would basically, they will, they are basically supporting what AfD also wants.

NK: She says you have a lot in common. In fact, that, that the CDU took, took their policies on key issues. And that it would, she also went on to say later that it would be, quote, impossible for you to form a coalition with the Social Democrats and the Greens.

DM: We just had a typical example of AfD propaganda. This is their line they repeat again and again, and it's simply not true. We had our very own agenda. We had our very own manifesto. And I want to explain this to people in Canada. The AfD is very close to Mr. Putin. They are actively pro-Russian, anti-Ukrainian. They are a danger for security and defence in Europe. We don't want to have anything to do with these people at all.

NK: What do you think accounts for the results? The rise in the AfD in your country? You won the election, but not with the mandate you'd hoped for. So, how would you explain to, to listeners what is happening there for that party to gain ground, and among young people as well?

DM: Yes, indeed. One-third of Germans voted for political parties who are to the right and to the left, extreme to the radicals. What these parties have in common is they are giving very simple answers to very complex questions. And this, of course, doesn't work in politics. And the main driver for the AfD and this campaign was, of course, irregular migration. The numbers are too high, and I'm very sure if we bring the German economy back on track, if we bring the numbers dramatically down when it comes to irregular migration, and when we stand up for security and freedom in Germany and in Europe, then the whole business model of the AfD will collapse. Because, in the end, this party is just playing upon fears of the German people.

NK: Will the Social Democratic Party come on board, though, with the kind of changes you want to make on those files?

DM: Well, actually, this is the only coalition option we have in the moment. If these coalition talks fail, then we would probably have to have new elections in Germany. And you can't do that in a democracy. The people have spoken. The people have delivered us a rather complicated result. We are ready, CDU and CSU, to pick up our share of responsibility. But we call also on the Social Democrats, with whom we've been in coalition governments before, to also pick up their part of the responsibility. We know exactly that the situation isn't easy for the Social Democrats. They had a terrible defeat yesterday. But still, we are ready to sit down with them, to have informal talks. And then, let's work on a coalition program for the next four years so we can get Germany back on track.

NK: And just finally, David, you know, this is, of course, as you well know, the third anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. What assurances, if any, are you and your party prepared to give Ukrainians today?

DM: Well, my party, the German CDU, has always been at the helm of political parties who are in favour of continuing to support Ukraine. The brave Ukrainian women and men are not only defending their own territorial sovereignty and integrity, they are defending the free Europe. And that's why it's very important that whatever happens now as regards possible negotiations, possible peace negotiation, it has to be, in the end, a just and sustainable peace with security guarantees for Ukraine. And nothing can decide, can be decided about Ukraine without Ukraine. And also, nothing can be decided about the future of Europe without the European Union and other important European allies sitting around the table. This has been our clear message also to the U.S. administration in Washington.

NK: David McAllister, I appreciate your time. We'll let you catch that train now. Thank you.

DM: Thank you very much.

CH: David McAllister is a member of the CDU's party executive and an MEP who heads up the Foreign Affairs Committee of European Parliament. We reached him in Hanover.

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P.E.I Smelling Salts

Guest: Barbara Brookins

CH: Bleachers. Spilled popcorn. Of course, the noble Zamboni. All things that are just part of the ice-rink experience. But in some arenas across Prince Edward Island, people are seeing something that doesn't belong: smelling salts. Sometimes called ammonia inhalants or ammonia salts, they're a mixture of ammonia and other chemicals. And they've been a staple of professional hockey for years, used by players looking for a quick jolt. But now, they're showing up in vending machines on P.E.I. Barbara Brookins is a grandmother to grandkids who are minor hockey players. She's also a registered nurse, and the President of PEI's Nurses Union. She's on a mission to get smelling salts banned from rinks in her province. We reached her in Kensington, Prince Edward Island.

NK: Barbara, when did you first notice that smelling salts were available and for sale at hockey rinks there?

BARBARA BROOKINS: So I became aware of it some mid-January. I have kids involved in minor hockey, and I'm at the rink several times a week, but never realized that these new vending machines had that product in them until one of my grandchildren decided that they should be purchasing them out of that vending machine, and had come home to pick up some money to go back and get them.

NK: So, you asked why, why, why'd you come back? And, and they said --

BB: [laughing] Yeah. Yeah. They were all chipping in on, on a bottle of smelling salts.

NK: And how much does a bottle cost?

BB: The, the vending machine, I think it was $24.99, or $24.99, $25.99.

NK: And when you hear a 15-year-old say I'm buying smelling salts, what do you think?

BB: Well, I must say, I didn't take it very well. And I had to apologize for the way I responded later on. [laughing] But it was just kind of a complete shock because I'm in that circle all the time. I'm always at the rink, and had never heard of it before. And that seems to be the common response I'm getting from people. It was a little bit of an eye-opener for everyone.

NK: What did your grandson tell you about why he and his, his teammates wanted to buy this?

BB: Well, they were told that it was, that it would enhance their performance and make them skate faster. And, obviously, they have also seen this used in the NHL. And on the benches, you can see some of the NHL players snapping the little vials of smelling salts and inhaling them periodically during games. If you really watch, you'll see them, you'll see some of them doing it.

NK: And I was going to ask you, does that make what you're trying to do harder when you're talking to your grandson or other players, young players?

BB: For sure. But I think a lot of it was that, you know, like, when it's there, and they don't realize that there's something wrong with it, it's, it's normalized because of it being in the NHL. And it's almost normalized when it's in the dressing rooms, and it's being handed around in the dressing room. So, the kids don't realize that it's something that is going to really harm them. Because if it was, it wouldn't be in the dressing room. And parents aren't in the dressing room with the older they get.

NK: Right.

BB: So, it's not even something that the parents see, so.

NK: Health Canada provided a statement to our CBC News colleagues in PEI, and say that it doesn't advise people, quote, purchase or use unapproved inhalant products marketed for alertness and energy boosting, unquote. The statement goes on from there. What are your concerns about the potential impact on your grandson and others if they use them?

BB: Like, it's a chemical, and it's ammonia, and it's a fume, it's an irritant. But just to think that our children are thinking that it's okay to sniff something to make them feel better, or to make them perform faster. Even if it did work, that is not a good reason for using it. Because that, again, is, is falsely leading them to think that that's the only way the can perform better. And second of all, it's a very short-acting mechanism. So, it only lasts, like, 30 seconds tops. And so, if they're using it and it's not lasting as long as they think it should, then my fear would be that then they would look at something else to provide a similar response that would last longer. You know, part of the concern as well with the format that they're using is not the little vials that snap like they're using in the NHL. It's an actual bottle. And it's a, it's a multi-dose vial. So, when you take your nose and, and put it over the, the opening to the bottle, you can shove your nose right into it, and you can hold it there [chuckle] as long as you could potentially hold it there.

NK: Right.

BB: It's not just a quick whiff of a vapour that's coming out of a snap capsule. You don't have control over how much they're inhaling.

NK: Given what Health Canada has said in that statement, and your concerns, I think a lot of parents are probably wondering, how is this in that vending machine in the first place?

BB: Well, that was my surprise because I had seen the vending machines when they arrived at the rinks. And, you know, saw the skate laces, and the tape, and hockey wraps. And never even noticed that they were there because they were on the bottom, bottom row of the machine. But when I became aware that they were there, I was pretty quick to, to raise the flag. And they have not been refilled as of this weekend. So, once that product was gone, it hasn't been there for probably the last two weeks.

NK: So, that's one signal that what you're doing is working, the fact that you're speaking out. But did any rink leadership or anyone like that speak to you directly?

BB: Our rink leadership, no. They have totally ignored the email. And they did provide a response from Hockey PEI, the provincial organization, to state basically that they didn't have a policy. So, I did follow up with another email this weekend to both organizations saying that just because there is not a policy does not mean that there isn't expected action right now, and that I would expect that now that they are aware of it.

NK: Hockey Quebec, as you may know, has already banned these products -- smelling salts -- from, from rinks there. Have you spoken to Hockey PEI about a potential ban where you are?

BB: They have not responded as well to my emails, and I've also reached out to the chief Public Health office. So, I'm still waiting, I'd followed up another email with her on the weekend to ensure that there was an action, hopefully, from her behalf as well.

NK: Are you worried that this still might be happening? That kids are going to get their hands on this anyway?

BB: Well, it certainly could, it certainly could be right now anywhere that it's, that it's still in the vending machines and where it's already been purchased and is being held in someone's hockey bag. I think it's the awareness, and I think there needs to be a responsibility from, you know, the coaches and the parents. Your average healthy person, maybe it's just going to be a, you know, a blip when you inhale, and you're going to feel a little clearer ahead, but it's not going to last. But for the child that's in that same dressing room that might have a respiratory illness, whether or not temporary or chronic, you know, like they're at a high risk. And when they're passing that bottle around, you don't want to be the child who says, oh, no, I'm not going to do that. I mean, it's a pretty, pretty tough age that they're at right now in terms of peer pressures. And this doesn't need to be added into it.

NK: Barbara, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

BB: All right. Thank you very much.

CH: Barbara Brookins is a registered nurse, and the president of P.E.I.'s Nurses Union. We reached her in Kensington, Prince Edward Island. In a statement, Prince Edward Island's Chief Public Health Office said its office has, quote, "sent a letter to Hockey PEI to outline health concerns associated with the use of smelling salts." Unquote.

[pop]

Three Generation Exhibit

CH: When the artist Carl Beam died in 2005, he left behind a legacy of bringing Indigenous art to a mainstream audience. And now, his daughter is making sure his art stays relevant. Anong Migwans Beam is an artist in her own right; she's presenting her work alongside her father's as part of a new exhibit at the Canadian Clay and Glass Gallery in Waterloo. Painting with Clay is a collection of ceramic works from the Beam family -- Carl Beam, Anong Migwans Beam, and Ms. Beam's two sons. She told the CBC what it means to her to have three generations of family artwork on display.

SOUNDCLIP

ANONG MIGWANS BEAM: It's an incredible feeling. You know, it's so great to work with my mom and dad before. But now, to have this experience working with my sons, it's really incredible. It gives me a window into how they must have felt working with me. And I just feel really surrounded with, surrounded with, with love. And it's a great feeling.

JOSETTE LAFLEUR: Tell me what that was like growing up with such artistic parents?

AMB: Yeah, it was, it was really a unique education. And I think it's taken a lot of years to even unpack what, what all I did learn from them. Because it was a different kind of learning. And I think we get conditioned in high school to really view learning as something that happens in a higher education institution. But it's, there's also incredible learning that happens through apprenticeships, and through families and family businesses. I think, you know, generational family businesses understand that really well. And it's really neat that we get to kind of represent what that looks like in art. And I was really lucky that I got to travel with them and learn by being along just as a kid, and then as a helper and assistant later. My, my whole young life, my father was looking for examples of ceramics, Anishinabek ceramics, or ceramics done by Indigenous people of our area. And he could never find them. And I think part of the problem there is that the stories that anthropologists and people in museum collections have wanted to tell, they haven't chosen that story. So, those pieces haven't been shared or dialog to discuss. And that leads to a skewed view that the Indigenous people of Manitoulin didn't have the ceramic history. And that's just patently untrue.

CH: That was Anong Migwans Beam talking to the CBC's Josette Lafleur.

[jaunty piano]

Safer Supply Pharmacist

CH: For pharmacies in B.C., it will be a big adjustment. And for some of their clients, it'll be an even bigger adjustment. Last week, we told you about a significant change to B.C.'s safer supply program, which allows drug users with a prescription to access regulated opioids. As of now, people will no longer be able to take those drugs home, and instead must take them in front of a pharmacist. Fairuz Siraj is a pharmacist in Victoria. And he’s still working through what that will mean for his team.

SOUNDCLIP

FAIRUZ SIRAJ: It's going to be a bit difficult for these patients because now they're going to have to come in, into the pharmacy and witness, you know, a couple of tablets every four to six hours, and it's going to be difficult for the patient, for sure, if they have to hold down a job, for example. And it's going to just create more situations for them to not come in and take those safe supplies. But, you know, it's a tough position. I had time to think about it over the weekend. And nobody wants more narcotics in our streets. But nobody wants also people overdosing. So, it's a difficult, difficult situation over here.

LIZ MACARTHUR: Yeah, you said that you've, you know, you had the weekend to think about this, or the week to think about it. What went through your mind when you first found out about the change?

FS: Yeah, I thought exactly that. I was like, woah, there's going to be a lot more work. But it's going to be a lot more barriers. But, you know, at a point, it's going to be like, well, what do we do? Because we're not open beyond 12 hours. A pharmacy across, they're open till midnight. So, what's going to happen to these patients, right? What are they going to do. Well, they most likely are going to be at risk of going and getting street drugs that's going to put them at risk.

LM: And, at this point, do you think there's anything the province could do differently with the safer supply program?

FS: It's tough because this is a tough situation, right? The safe supply program has been pretty good. Some of the medications that are dispensed are being diverted. And in order for a program like this to be very, very effective, all the other things that are needed to make it somebody, you know, reduce their risk of overdose and reduce their addiction, they have to have other things like housing and support that, you know, a lot of us don't think about. We take a lot of things for granted. Like, we have jobs to go to, we have families, we have somewhere we can live, we can get a regular meal. And these are the things that, and what is needed for somebody to overcome a huge, huge issue like drug addiction that we don't think about.

CH: Fairuz Siraj is a pharmacist in Victoria, B.C. He was talking to Liz MacArthur on On the Island.

[Aquarium music]

Part 3: Haitian Visas, Fly Fishing Obit

Grey Seal Pups

CH: Swimming lessons are scary. You're handed off to a complete stranger, and asked to put your face in the water and blow bubbles. Also the changeroom is always wet and cold. But it's worse for baby grey seals on Sable Island. There's no parent anxiously watching them from the deck. And the danger is much more real. Every winter, about 400,000 grey seals gather on the tiny sandbar off the coast of Nova Scotia to mate and give birth to pups. And then, those pups are left to their own devices. Using Fitbit-style monitors, researchers with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts are trying to figure out how the pups survive. Marine biologist Michelle Shero explained the project.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHELLE SHERO: So, it's been really interesting about this project is we don't have to reinvent the wheel. Humans are really interested in Fitbits tracking their steps, their heart rates, their sleep cycles to track their health. And so, it's the same idea with the seals. We're trying to see how they're using their energy, how healthy they are, how they're developing when Mom weans them, and how they're preparing to make a living in the ocean. And so, that's why we've been really interested in the heart rate monitors. So, all of these pups, they're being nursed by Mom, they have tons of energy flowing in for about two to three weeks for gray seals. And then, Mom splits, and Pup has to figure out how to make a living on its own. So, it's really incredible they do that. They don't get any lessons on how to swim or anything like that. I mean, at Sable Island in particular, historically, first-year survival rates for those pups was about 60 per cent. And then as that population started to increase, it dropped to about 30 per cent. And now, we work with Canada Department of Fisheries and Oceans, and they believe that first-year survival of the pups may be as low as 10 per cent now because that population has gotten so big and all the animals have to compete for limited food resources. So, we start to see the impacts of that pretty early on in pups because they're just not as good divers and good, as good at getting food as the adults. And so, understanding who's going to be surviving out there? What gives pups the edge to sustain these populations is going to be really important. It's a little backpack that we put on the seal's back. And then, it has the the leads like you would have at a doctor's office with an EKG. So, right around their armpits is where the leads go. But it's measuring their heart rate. So, it could take a full EKG reading like you would get in a doctor's office. It measures the time in between the heart beats, the interbeat intervals. And then, it also has what's called an accelerometer on it. And so, it tracks any sort of movement of the animals. We can tell when we're getting resting heart rates and when they're moving quite a bit. And we're seeing that that's also picking up when they're breathing too, when the rib cage is expanding. So, we can start to get both heart rate and breathing rates remotely while we're not even anywhere near the animals, which is really incredible.

CH: That was marine biologist Michelle Shero talking to the CBC's Frances Willick.

[ambient instrumental]

Haitian Visas

Guest: Beatrice Jacquet Castor

CH: U.S. President Donald Trump promised mass deportations. And now -- to that end -- his administration is rolling back policies that protected hundreds of thousands of Haitians. The temporary protected status program provides safety for people whose home countries are in turmoil. It was first extended to Haitians in 2010, and was renewed until February 2026 under former President Joe Biden. But late last week, the Department of Homeland Security announced it was vacating that decision, leaving half a million Haitians at risk of being deported come August. Beatrice Jacquet-Castor is one of the founders of the Haitian American Community Coalition in Southwest Florida. We reached her in Fort Myers.

NK: Beatrice, how are Haitian Americans and Haitians there reacting to these developments?

BEATRICE JACQUET CASTOR: Right now, to the development of the new TPS, I can't say were surprised, but we are in shock that it was rescinded back for 12 months instead of the full 18 months that it was extended for.

NK: How are people processing that shock? What are they saying to you?

BJC: Well, they, they are in shock. They are in disbelief that this is happening. It's like they're, they're in a dream. Like, this cannot be the reality of life. So, the people in our community are very scared because they don't know what's going to happen to them. And as of August 2nd, after their TPS runs out, they are going to be at risk to being deported. And especially with the new executive order, they would fall under the expedited deportation.

NK: What kind of advice can you give them under these circumstances? What options will they have now?

BJC: Right now, the options, which are very slim, is to find any other programs that they might be qualified for. And there's not a lot of programs that they qualify for. This is why they were qualified under the TPS. Some of them that have American kids that are at the age of 21, DACA petitioned for them. Not everyone has children, American children. But if they do have a child at the age of 21, that could petition to them. If they are married to a spouse that is an American citizen, that could petition to them. If they were in a violent relationship, they could qualify for some type of visa. But otherwise, there's not really a lot of programs that would qualify them.

NK: We've certainly, Beatrice, covered the situation in Haiti on this program. We know more than a million people are displaced right now because of the gang violence there. So, what would it mean if people have to go back?

BJC: Well, the, the people that are here doesn't have a home in Haiti to return back to. So, when they go back to Haiti, they're going to be on the street because there's not a home to go back to a due to the gang violence, the political instability, and there is not a government in place currently. So, there's the, what the people would face is they will be at risk to be killed with their children or with their family because of the insecurity that Haiti currently is facing.

NK: The U.S. president, during his first term in office, threatened to do this, to remove temporary protected status at that time, but it was ultimately blocked after several court challenges. So, are you, are you hopeful at all that this time, legal challenges may, may stop this second attempt at doing this?

BJC: I'm a little hopeful, but not as, as hopeful as I was before with the way that the developments are starting to take place. We are encouraging organizations to come together, and to petition, and to file lawsuits. But our hope is very minimum.

NK: So, do you imagine a scenario where hundreds of thousands of people are sent back?

BJC: Yes, I do feel that we are going to be facing a massive deportation for Haitian people on all the countries that are currently on TPS, that there are TPS. Before the Haitian people, TPS was put to an end. As of August, the Venezuelan TPS was also revoked as well. So, we are, we do think that we are going to have a huge deportation, more than ever before.

NK: How do you keep doing the work that you do, knowing that?

BJC: Every day, you just do what you have to do. Not because you can, because you need to. Because a lot of the people are putting their hopes in you. So therefore, you standing and doing the half provides some type of faith for them to continue and to live on. Because right now, there, there is so much uncertainty and so much of fear on what's going to happen to them, and their family, and their children.

NK: That's a lot of pressure on your shoulders.

BJC: It is. It is. And we're praying that closer to the due date, or that something, or a miracle happens. But right now, it's, there's a lot of fear and uncertainty on the ground in the community.

NK: Can you imagine speaking to anyone in the administration, even to the U.S. president, if that opportunity presented itself? I mean, if you could, what would you try to, to get across?

BJC: What I would try to get across is to look at Haiti and think of your family and put yourself into their shoes. It's not that they don't want to go back home, but there's not a home for them to go back to. And to have some type of human heart to allow them to stay, and to be able to feed their family. That's what I would say.

NK: You're an American, and I wonder what message the sends to you, this program ending?

BJC: Well, right now, as an American, I have to say that I'm not proud of the, the direction the country has taken. I am not a proud U.S. citizen for that. Because America has always been the the land where you would always have hope, and you could always have dream, and you can always become someone that you can become. And now, we have a lot of immigrant kids that are going to be deported back with their parents that's not even given an opportunity for, to have a life one day.

NK: Beatrice, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

BJC: You're welcome. Thank you so much.

CH: Beatrice Jacquet-Castor is one of the founders of the Haitian American Community Coalition in Southwest Florida. We reached her in Fort Myers.

[eerie instrumental]

P.E.I. Donor Age

CH: Eight-year-old Maverick Bishop was born with a congenital heart defect. Early on, his parents learned that he would need three surgeries to manage his condition. Well, he's had those surgeries. And now, Maverick is waiting in Toronto with his mom and baby sister for a donor heart to become available. And the Prince Edward Island family is calling on the provincial government to reconsider the rules on organ donations. Right now, people have to be 16 years old or older to register to donate organs. And parents can't provide advance consent for the organ or tissue donation of children under 16. They can only give consent at the time of donation, if the opportunity arises. Woodrow Bishop is Maverick's father. They both spoke with the CBC's Laura Meader.

SOUNDCLIP

WOODROW BISHOP: He's very active. I mean, if he walked in here now, or if you've seen him playing, you would never know that he's a child waiting for a new heart. He's, he loves sports. He loves hockey, breathes hockey. When he wakes up, it's all he's thinking about. And even right up until he moved to Toronto, his transplant doctor said, you are one of the only children that I've ever met waiting for a transplant that played hockey. Sure, he had to take extra breaks, and coaches kept an eye on him, but he was on the ice, and he was out there. And that's just a testament to his determination and drive, is, it's something else. The most important thing for me, as a father of a son that is waiting for a heart transplant, is to just raise awareness to families, so that families understand, and they have those discussions with their children of how important organ donation is. My 10-year-old daughter asked me this summer, Dad, am I an organ donor? If something happens to me, will I, will my heart and lungs go to another kid? And that's what kind of made me really dig in and ask the question because I didn't know. And, ultimately, Prince Edward Island is one of the only provinces, one of the only, not the only, that in Canada, parents or guardians are not allowed to sign up their children under the age of 16 to be organ donors. And I just feel like if other provinces are allowing children to be signed up by their parents to be organ donors, Prince Edward Island could do the same. And I feel like if parents just know that, and understand that, and have those conversations with their children, that's what I'm hoping for, is just to raise awareness of how important organ donation is. And that, hopefully, we will see changes here in Prince Edward Island so that families can sign their children up to be organ donors.

MAVERICK BISHOP: I have to be here for a new heart, and it will do a lot of stuff. Help me run, and will, and do all the fun sports that I love to do, hockey, soccer, every sport. But favourite one, hockey.

CH: That was eight-year-old Maverick Bishop, and before him, his father, Woodrow Bishop. Maverick is waiting for a organ donation. They were talking to the CBC's Laura Meader.

[folk rock]

Fly Fishing Obit

Guest: Mark Hume

CH: If you're a fly fisher in the Kamloops area, you'll probably recognize this voice:

SOUNDCLIP

MO BRADLEY: Hi, I'm Mo Bradley, and welcome to My Fly Time Show. What I'm going to be doing is tying flies flies from ice off 'til ice on again. Starting with the bloodworm chronomat. And these are the flies that we use in the Greater Kamloops area, where we have an abundance of fantastic lakes for trout fishing.

CH: That was Kamloops fishing legend, Mo Bradley, doing what he did for decades: educating people about fly fishing. Mr. Bradley died this month at the age of 86. He moved from England to B.C. in the '60s. And according to the Kamloops Sports Hall of Fame -- which he was inducted into in 2012 -- Mr. Bradley spent the ensuing decades since as an ambassador for the tremendous natural resources of the area, and a leading advocate for sport fishing. If he wasn't out on the lake, you might find him at the local store Surplus Herby's, sharing his expertise. Vancouver writer and journalist Mark Hume is the author of Trout School: Lessons from a Fly-Fishing Master, which is about Mo Bradley. We reached Mark Hume in Mesquite, Nevada.

NK: Mark, when you hear Mo Bradley's voice, what does that conjure up for you?

MARK HUME: Well, you know, that brings such a warm smile to my face. He's an icon in the Kamloops area because he taught fly fishing to thousands of people. He had a radio show and then a little TV show. It was just his way, he was such a generous man. It was his way of paying, paying people back because people were so kind to him when he and his wife Evelyn immigrated there from England in about 1965 I think it was.

NK: He had read about the, you know, nature there, and the fishing scene. That's what drew him there?

MH: He had seen, I think it was Sports Illustrated, [NK chuckles] it was an American sporting magazine, and there was a picture of a Kamloops trout jumping. And he told Evelyn, that's, that's our dream. That's where we have to go. He grew up in Derbyshire, England. He was thrust down into the coal mines at the age of 16. It was supposed to be his life living down the shafts, but he had some terrible experiences there. One story told me was about how the sirens used to go off in that town, and he'd be at the door with his mum, and they'd be waiting to see if, if their father was coming home alive.

NK: Oh no.

MH: All the women were doing that. And he told me one story once, when he came out of the shafts with a bunch of Welsh ponies that were down there to pull the coal carts, and they'd been down in the darkness for so long that when they saw the light, they kind of went crazy and bolted. And when one of them ran into a wall and was killed, and that kind of became for Mo, I think, portent of what his life would be like if he stayed in the mines. So, he found a way to get out. And ended up in Kamloops

NK: Yeah. He changed his life. And I mean the peace and the beauty there, and just, I mean, "Supernatural B.C.", it's called that for a reason, right? What a change.

MH: I always used to, I always used to think about that when we were out fishing. Those Kamloops lakes are up high on a plateau, and many of them are surrounded by grasslands. When you get out on them, it's like, it's almost like you're fishing in the sky. You know, the light is just so fantastic. And whenever he was out there, he was just such a peaceful, joyous person. He loved it there.

NK: So, did he, as much as, you know, you're saying he paid it forward. And so many people have been, have been, you know, mourning his passing and commenting on stories that talked about his passing, did he enjoy the solitude as well?

MH: He he did. Yeah, he loved, he loved the solitude. But he was, when I'd go fishing with him, we'd go in separate little boats. This is one thing he loved to do. Even when he was a fishing guide, he'd put his clients in a separate boat so that they could learn how to take care of themselves. But when I was with him, he was always watching the other fishermen. And if he saw someone who was struggling with their casting, or who is anchored in a good spot but wasn't catching fish, he'd always row over to them and offer them help and advice, and give them flies. [NK chuckles] He said he was treated so well by the people of Kamloops when he arrived, and had such a, a love affair with the Kamloops trout that, that was just his way of paying back.

NK: Is that how you met him? Was he giving you advice?

MH: I actually picked up a little pamphlet he'd written, From Ice Off to Ice On, in which he described about a dozen flies, his favourite flies. How to tie them and how to fish them. And I thought it was such a great little pamphlet. I phoned him up and we chatted, and he said, well, let's go fishing. And after that, I'd go up and fish with him, usually in the spring and the late fall, for, for, like, 20 years. So, he had a little ritual he used to do in the spring when the ice was coming off. He'd walk down to the end of the wharf, take a sip of scotch, and then he'd pour a glass full of scotch into the lake for his, one of his dear old fishing friends. And then we'd go, and then we'd go fishing. We'd break through the ice if it was still around the edge of the lake, and we'd go fishing.

NK: Are you going to continue that tradition?

MH: [chuckling] I, I think I'm going to have to now. I guess it'll be a couple of drams of Scotch I'll tip off the end of the wharf this spring.

NK: It sounds like, you know, he always wanted to make people comfortable and share his knowledge, like you've been saying. But, but that first time you went out, were you, were you intimidated?

MH: I wasn't. He, he never, he never, he, I mean, he was an absolute master of his craft. He understood not only how to catch fish, but why the fish were doing what they were doing at any particular time of the day or season. But, no, he never, you never felt like you were fishing with someone who was holding it over you, or was superior to you. And he'd be so happy if you caught a fish and he didn't, which rarely happened. [NK laughs] When I was with him, he was, he would always catch 10 and I'd catch one. But, you know, he was so happy. If you cut the first fish, he'd be so happy for you.

NK: He taught you so many lessons, I'm sure, in your decades long friendship. Is there one that you will remember as, as the biggest lesson he left you with?

MH: Yeah. Yes there is. He taught me so much about the water, and light, and the effect that the clouds pass, have when they pass over the lake. But the one thing he told me that changed everything for me. And if there's any fly fishers out there listening to your show, this will, can change their lives, too. He said slow down and slow down some more. So, whatever fly pattern you're fishing, wherever you're going, just, just slow, slow, slow, slow. And when you think you're going slow, you've got to slow down some more. And when you're fishing in that kind of peaceful, quiet, really slow way, you make your cast and it might take you 10 or 15 minutes to retrieve your fly. It really changes everything. It brings the fly down to the speed that insects naturally move. That's the trick.

NK: It's not bad life advice, actually, Mark.

MH: [laughing] Good advice for any time of life, right? [both chuckle]

NK: Well, Mark, I'm sorry for your loss, but I appreciate you sharing your memories with us. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

MH: Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

CH: That was Vancouver writer and journalist Mark Hume. We reached him in Mesquite, Nevada.

[jaunty instrumental]

Mini-Update: NS Auditor General

CH: Last Thursday, on As It Happens, Nova Scotia's auditor general urged the provincial government to do the right thing: to withdraw a bill that threatened the independence of her office. And today, the Premier said he agreed. In that interview, Kim Adair told us that she'd been blindsided by clauses in a new bill that would have allowed the government to fire her without cause -- and would have had a major impact on the way her office tables reports. In a statement today, Premier Tim Houston said that, after talking to Ms. Adair, he no longer supports the proposed amendments, and asked the Legislature to withdraw them. He wrote that he had nothing but respect for the auditor general and, quote, "Sometimes things become something that they weren’t intended to be and I believe this is the case with the Auditor General-related amendments." Unquote.

[funk]

Roberta Flak Obit

CH: The first time ever you heard Roberta Flack, I'm betting her voice stopped you in your tracks. Ms. Flack was a Grammy-winning soul singer whose songs were a mainstay of Top 40 and R&B radio in the '70s and '80s. You still hear them all the time. Largely because of that amazing voice, and the way she used it -- subtly, intensely, mournfully, or joyously. Roberta Flack died at her New York home earlier today, surrounded by her family. She was 88. She'd been suffering from health problems for years, including a diagnosis of ALS -- which made it impossible for her to sing anymore. But she cemented her legacy decades ago. She had immortal hits on her own -- Killing Me Softly With His Song and The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face among them -- and she had huge successes with duets with Donny Hathaway and Peabo Bryson. She won five Grammys -- including a lifetime achievement award in 2020 -- and back-to-back Record of the Year wins. Her versatility made her hard to pin down -- she was compared to all kinds of other artists. But, as she told the New York Times, "If everybody said I sounded like one person, I’d worry. But when they say I sound like them all, I know I’ve got my own style."

The AIH Transcript for February 24, 2025

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