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The AIH transcript for February 21, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

HM: From bad, to bad, to worse. Thousands of people who have fled the conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo are now in Burundi -- where an aid worker describes a humanitarian crisis that is deteriorating fast.

CH: Unsafe and unsound. B.C. introduces big changes to its safer supply program -- so big that one expert tells us it's tantamount to removing the program altogether.

HM: Going, and going, and going for gold. Team Canada's win last night against the U.S. felt symbolic for many Canadians. But for five fans in particular, it was the triumphant end to a ridiculously long journey.

CH: New jaw just dropped. Scientists in Egypt uncover the nearly-complete skull of a powerful prehistoric apex carnivore -- and we'll find out what they learned from baring its teeth.

HM: Recipes for success, with a dash of potential disaster. A new edition of the earliest known cookbook published by a Black American woman includes 19th-century recipes for everything from unmissable desserts to home remedies you probably should miss.

CH: And..bulletin beard. I mean: beard bulletin. For decades, the New York Yankees bristled at bristles -- but now, in what must have been a tuft decision, players will finally be allowed to sport facial hair.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday Edition. Radio that's glad they got past that stubbling block.

Part 1: Burundi/DRC: UNHCR, Cookbook New Edition, Canadians In Boston

Burundi/DRC: UNHCR

Guest: Brigitte Mukanga-Eno

CH: The situation in Burundi got bad quickly -- and it's only getting worse. According to the United Nations, more than 40,000 people have fled there this month, to escape fighting in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo. The advance by the Rwandan-backed militant group M23 is the most serious escalation of the conflict there in more than a decade. And it's resulted in a major humanitarian crisis. Brigitte Mukanga-Eno is the UNHCR representative in Burundi. We reached her there, in Bujumbura. And a note, this conversation contains discussion of sexual violence.

HM: Brigitte, can you describe for us what you are seeing there in Burundi as these thousands of people pour across the border?

BRIGITTE MUKANGA-ENO: What we are seeing here in Burundi for the past few weeks is really an influx of people from the DRC Congo, where the security situation has drastically evolved. But more particularly, since the 14th, the weekend of the 14th of February, we have been receiving people by thousands.

HM: Yeah, I understand on one day alone, 9,000 people crossed the border. Can you describe that day for us?

BME: It was really just terrible. This influx is the biggest that Burundi has seen in so many years. Normally there's an official entry point, which is close to Bujumbura, which is called Gatumba entry point, where people have been coming the days before. Less than that, by hundreds. And then, by the Rusizi River, which is an informal entry point, there were just masses of people walking, and mostly women and children were coming. And we were just helping them to, to, to climb the hill because the river is like in a valley. We, colleagues were just help to, to, to climb the hill and direct them to the place where the government has allowed us to settle people temporarily, which is a big stadium.

HM: So, tell me again about the stadium where they're staying. How many people are in that stadium, and how crowded is it?

BME: Oh my God! The stadium currently has passed the 20,000 people, and some of them are just sleeping, it, it's so crowded, and it's an open-air place where people are spending their nights. But from the podium, the podium area is where you have those who came much earlier have occupied that place. And then, the rest of them are just in open area. Since the beginning of this week, we tried to gather some plastic tent with some of the other humanitarian agencies. So, a few plastic tents that we have collected, we have given it to the most vulnerable women who have many children. But we are waiting for a proper transfer to the settlement where proper shelter can be, can be put in place for them.

HM: Is there food and water enough to go around?

BME: Not yet. We are really still trying to put things in place. The first two days, there was nothing for, we just managed to get water for everyone. We are working with our partner ARD, the National Red Cross, to provide the hot meals. The challenge was mostly because of the large number of people arriving on a daily basis. So, when they have a plan like for initially it was like 6,000. We are prepared for 6,000 meals. And, all of a sudden, it's climbed to the double, and the next day, it's even more people. The challenge is really on the number of people who are arriving daily, which has been disturbing the, all the plans. And apart from the stadium, we have also people who have spread to close, close by schools. And one church also has allowed people to remain in the church.

HM: You described harsh conditions getting into Burundi. How are people actually traveling into the country?

BME: Well, it is difficult. From the river, there's no, nothing like a boat. They are actually using just any floating object. Mostly, like, jerrycans, empty jerrycan. They just hang to it. And, in fact, colleagues witnessed a case of a woman whose child was just, the child was drowned and was carried away by, by the waters. It was terrible. But another case was a family. Once she reached the, the, the, the stadium, the child was not breathing anymore. But what we are doing on the Burundi side, we have busses that are taking them to, to the place which is a bit safe for the moment, while waiting for the screening. Because the government also is doing the security screening to make sure that civilians remain only amongst civilians.

HM: We are seeing some really harrowing stories about what is happening in DR Congo right now. What, what kind of things are you hearing from, from these people as they arrive in Burundi about what they are leaving behind?

BME: What we are hearing during the, the screening, the discussion with them is really the terrible stories of those who have been severely displaced. The other nights, we had a lady who was in pain, in serious pain, and she had a small child on her back, but she, initially she said she was she was wounded. But after examination, she she, she opened up to the doctor that she was actually raped by several people, by several men. And we had to rush her out of the transit camp to take her to the, to the hospital. So, people have witnessed a lot of atrocities, family members being killed, and others who also arrived without all the members of the family, women without their children, with some of the children separated from their family members, they don't know where they are. And the numbers are really huge of children who are just alone, so the situation is quite difficult.

HM: Brigitte, thank you so much. It is good to hear about the efforts that you're making in such difficult circumstances. Thank you for telling us what's happening.

BME: Thank you.

CH: That was Brigitte Mukanga-Eno, the UNHCR representative in Burundi. We reached her in Bujumbura.

[chillhop house tour music]

Cookbook New Edition

Guest: Rafia Zafar

CH: More than 150 years ago, Malinda Russell of Michigan wrote a cookbook, recording hundreds of her own recipes -- from dinners, to desserts, to how she prepared medicines. And that book was lost to history until 20 years ago, when a culinary historian found a rare copy of the 1866 book at the bottom of a box. It's now considered the oldest published cookbook by a Black American woman. If you're curious about the meals -- or the medicines, for that matter -- Ms. Russell's work has now been re-published in a brand-new edition. Rafia Zafar is a retired professor of English and African American Studies at Washington University in St Louis. She wrote a foreword for this new edition. And we reached her in New York City.

HM: Rafia, you have tried some of Melinda Russell's recipes yourself? Tell us about one of them and how it turned out.

RAFIA ZAFAR: The gingerbread, [sarcastic chuckle] it looked like a one of those middle school volcano, like erupting volcano dioramas. You know, they sort of erupt. And then, there's all this sludge. So, that's kind of what it looked like. I don't think it was sludgy, but there was this huge hillock in the middle of my eight-by-eight pan. [HM chuckles] Essentially, what's, I think, challenging, but also a lot of fun with Melinda Russell, or any author, cookbook author of the 19th century are the instructions, which frequently are essentially lists of ingredients with not much in the way of instructions. Elizabeth Cake, I just opened the book randomly. Three cups flour, one-and-a half Dido sugar, three-fourths Dido milk, tablespoon of butter, etc., etc. Finishing with one tablespoon cream, tartar, and soda. Full stop.

HM: Oh my gosh. So, why are these recipes so basic, so barebones?

RZ: Cookbooks back then, I, well, you're talking to a literate population, or in some cases, the head of the household, the female head of the household, or possibly the male, who would be then conveying the instructions or the ingredients to someone who knew how to cook. So, when you say roll out to, like, palm, or knead, place flat in the pan, Russell and her peers were assuming that the person already had, you know, multiple years of experience in the kitchen.

HM: Right. So, who was Melinda Russell? What, what did we learn from her in this cookbook?

RZ: I wish we knew more. If you know 19th century American literature, it's in the form of the slave narrative genre, right? It begins with the three words that if you read slave narratives, I was born. These texts iterate where people are from, their immediate history, they often have something called authenticating documents, which are usually letters or attestations from whites, or slave owners, saying, this person is a good person, you should believe this person, and so on. And that is actually the form of the, you can can call it an extended preface to the cookbook. But interestingly, Melinda Russell herself was not enslaved. It was her grandmother who was enslaved. Nevertheless, and I believe there are reasons for, for choosing to preface her cookbook this way, because it's kind of a, it's, it's sort of using the decks that are stacked against her for her.

HM: She was, from what I understand, really entrepreneurial because --

RZ: Yes. Yes, she had her own pastry shop. She was a laundress. She ran a boarding house. She was, she was widowed after four years of marriage. So, she just had to get down to business. And she did.

HM: And she twice in her life had accumulated money and was robbed.

RZ: Yes. It was, it was terrible. Like, money was something that people in the 19th century, regardless of background, but certainly people who were African-American, slave or free, would accumulate at great cost, so that she was devastatingly robbed twice in her life, led her, she says, to, to publish this cookbook. Because, as she said, because she's also confident, right? She's cooked for decades. And she says she always brings great satisfaction to people. She's confident that the cookbook will sell.

HM: What glimpses do you think we get into 19th century American society, and specifically Black American experiences at that time from this cookbook?

RZ: Well, you see, of how contingent one's success is on pretty random events. For example, Melinda Russell was born free. And yet, she was born free in the southern states. This is because, for whatever reason, her grandmother had been manumitted, freed, by her owner. Because of that, her grandmother, her mother was then born free. And so was Melinda Russell, right? Because the law of the land was the condition of the child shall follow the mother. So, she had that initial leg up, if you will, because she was a freeborn woman.

HM: What do you hope people who discover Melinda Russell's recipes now experience, whether they're cooking or just reading these recipes through? You know, what do you hope that they take from her life and the experiences she had?

RZ: That they take away that someone, you know, that it's the right metaphor to use. When you get lemons, make lemonade, right? She was depending, right, by prefacing her book with a quote/unquote slave narrative, she was depending on the, the 1860s, the conflation with the African-American woman was the brilliant cook, right? Because Uncle Tom's Cabin had been published in the 18, early, like, little more than 10 years before. That was the first million-copies-seller in the United States. And at the heart of that book is this preternaturally talented African-American American Woman cook. So, by putting her slave narrative at the beginning of her book, she is, she's forging that connection, right, with the reader's mind, the buyer's mind. Oh, this woman is an African-American. She will really know how to cook. She knows what she's doing. So that's, she's pretty clever that way. Not clever, I'd say canning, calculating.

HM: Fascinating, too, just to hear her story. Thank you so much. I've enjoyed our conversation.

RZ: Okay, great. Thank you very much. Take care.

HM: You too. Bye.

RZ: Bye-bye

CH: Rafia Zafar is a retired professor of English and African American Studies at Washington University in St Louis. We reached her in New York City.

[lounge jazz]

Canadians In Boston

Guests: Lucas Fry, Sloan Tremblay, Bryan Hanna, Lucas Humble, Matt McLeod

SOUNDCLIP

ANNOUNCER: Centring pass, McDavid scores! Connor McDavid wins it for Canada. [horn blares, cheers]

CH: The sweet sound of victory -- which was accompanied by a massive gust of wind in Canada, as everyone in the country exhaled at once. That, of course, was Connor McDavid scoring the winning goal in overtime at last night's 4 Nations Face-Off final against the United States. A game that, for a lot of Canadians, was about so much more than hockey. That final game took place at Boston's TD Gardens, amid a sea of red, white and blue USA jerseys. But if you looked closely, there were also proud Canadians standing their ground. Including Sloan Tremblay, Lucas Fry, Bryan Hanna, Lucas Humble, and Matt McLeod. Their friend Seth Jarvis was suiting up to play for Team Canada, and they couldn't miss that. So, when their flight from Winnipeg was cancelled, they jumped in a car and drove the 30-odd hours to Boston. We reached them on the road home to Winnipeg.

HM: Hey, guys.

GUYS: Hey.

HM: How's everyone feeling right now?

LUCAS FRY: A lot of emotions.

GUY #2: Yeah.

LF: Yeah.

HM: Oh my gosh. So, we've played that game-winning goal. What was it like for you to feel that in the moment? What is it like every time you hear it?

LF: Oh, it gives us the chills. I'm going back to that moment when I'm standing up, shaking my buddies, and we're just cheering as loud as we can.

HM: Now, you guys have a friend, Seth Jarvis, who's in the NHL. He plays for the Carolina Hurricanes. What's it like to see Seth play with Team Canada?

LF: It's amazing. I mean, the way we know him, he's just one of our friends. He's one of our buddies. But to see him out there on the big stage, doing what he loves and playing with guys that we've all idolized growing up, it's, it's really cool. And we're all just so happy for him.

HM: It's you Lucas I'm talking to right now, right?

LF: Yeah.

HM: So, tell me about the journey to get to this game last night. This was not an easy trip for you guys.

LF: No, it's, it's been a lot. I mean, flights have been canceled. They've been rescheduled. We thought we were getting on different flights. Heck, we left a train. We were going to rent a car. I think driving our own car was probably our last option. But when it really came down to it, there was never a doubt that we weren't going to come to this game.

HM: It took you 30 hours, is that right?

LF: Yeah, 30 hours in the car.

HM: Did everybody take a turn behind the wheel?

LF: Yeah, we took turns sleeping, and yeah, we drove right through the night to get here.

HM: Once you made it to the TD Garden, tell us about that energy. Because, you know, I saw it on TV. But to be in the middle of it, what did that feel like as, as the game time was approaching?

LF: Just absolutely electric. I mean, just starting with walking through the streets with our Canada jerseys. You got U.S./Canada chants going on in the streets. You got so much, so much banter going on. Just the atmosphere, the environment, it was, it was like nothing we've ever seen before.

HM: Now, we know the game got off to a good start when Canada scored first. I gotta admit, I was getting nervous by the time it was tied up in the third. How did you feel? How stressed out were you as it headed into overtime?

LF: I think we were all pretty nervous. And, I mean, we're all from Winnipeg, we're all Jets fans, and we weren't sure how many goals goals we were going to get past Connor Hellebuyck. So, I think we were, we were all pretty nervous going into that overtime.

HM: Have you had a chance to talk with your friend Seth at all?

LF: Yeah, we got the chance to see him last night after the game. He was feeling pretty good. Yeah, a lot of emotions. I think he was trying to soak it all in.

HM: Is he aware what, what efforts you guys went to to get there?

LF: Yeah. Yeah, he was. We made sure to let him know.

HM: [laughing] He owes you.

LF: Yeah. Maybe, maybe a couple, a couple times.

HM: Oh my gosh! Can you just hold up the phone? I just want to ask how exhausted everybody is. You're all holding up?

LF: We're we're surviving.

SLOAN TREMBLAY: Yeah, we're we're going to make it through.

HM: What do you want when you get back home? Like a hot shower or cold beer? What's the story? [chuckling]

GUYS: That! That! Yeah, that would be great!

LF: Yeah, that would be great.

HM: I can imagine. How close are you? Where are you now?

LF: About, like, 24 hours, I want to say, 25 hours.

ST: Google Maps says we still have 25 hours to go.

HM: Wow, wow. Do you want to pass the phone around? Just talk to everybody one at a time. Just identify yourself, and we just ask you a couple of things.

ST: Yeah. I'm Sloan Tremblay.

HM: Hey, Sloan. So, again, I mean, I just kind of want to know why this game was so important to get to? Because it's not something kind of we're used to being on the schedule, right?

ST: Yeah. Like, I mean, we all just thought it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. We didn't want to miss out on that, and seeing our, like, best buddy that we grew up with play on that big stage.

HM: Yeah. It's, that must be exciting to grow up with somebody who's actually made it to the NHL.

ST: Yeah, it was pretty exciting.

HM: Oh, that's great. Do you mind passing it along?

MATT MCLEOD: Hi there.

HM: Hi, who's this?

MM: Matt McLeod.

HM: Matt. Did the fact that we had kind of these cross-border tensions lately make it any more important for you to get there?

MM: No, I wouldn't say that. I think it was just about representing our country. And being there for our good buddy. It was just really important to go see him, I think.

HM: Right. And you're very proud, presumably, of everything he's achieved.

MM: Yeah, of course.

HM: That's great. Okay. Can I pass the phone further along? [laughing]

HM: Hi, who's this?

LUCAS HUMBLE: Hello! Lucas Humble.

HM: Hey, Lucas. How loud were you singing the anthem last night?

LH: We were, we were yelling it. We were screaming. Yeah, we got a couple, got a couple of other Canadians in, in the section singing it. I kind of lost my voice. But, yeah, the boys were going hard.

HM: I imagine the voice was also the, all the cheering you were doing?

LH: Yeah, exactly. Throat's a little sore

HM: What did, what did you make of the booing of our anthem?

LH: You know what? There wasn't, there wasn't too much booing where we were at. It was more jokingly, like, kind of banter, like, oh, we're going to do your anthem. But there was nothing really, any ill-will or any bad intent from anyone that was around us, so.

HM: That's nice to hear.

LH: Yeah.

HM: Oh great. Well, thanks for talking to me I guess there's one more person to speak with, huh?

BRYAN HANNA: Yeah, it's, it's Bryan Hanna here.

HM: Hey, Brian, I've just been asking everybody, you know, why it was so important for you to be there, and what it meant to you to make that trip?

BH: Like, obviously, it's awesome to go there for the country, but just the fact that our buddy was playing just made it 10 times better. So, just getting there for him. Getting there, like, it's a lot of our first chance getting to see him on that stage. Like, that big of a stage, we don't know how many chances there will be like that in our lifetime. So, we, we had to get there for us, for him to see his family. And just, we're just lucky that he was, he was willing to share that experience with us.

HM: I can just, I mean, I know I would be the kind of person that years from now would be telling my friends and family I was there. I'm assuming that's part of the, [chuckling] part of the pleasure you're going to take.

BH: Oh, 100 per cent. I don't think anybody's going to hear the end of this, so.

HM: Awe, great.

BH: So, yeah.

HM: Yeah. Guys, can I just get like a "Go Canada" from you all? I'll say it. 1.2.3.

GUYS: Go Canada, go!

HM: We did it! [chuckle] Thanks so much. Listen, get lots of rest. Have a safe journey the rest of the way. I really enjoyed talking with you. Thanks so much.

GUYS: Thank you very much. Take care.

HM: Okay. Bye-bye.

BH: Bye-bye.

CH: Lucas Fry, Sloan Tremblay, Bryan Hanna, Lucas Humble, and Matt McLeod were at last night's 4 Nations final in Boston, to cheer on their friend Seth Jarvis. We reached them on the road back to Winnipeg.

[pop rock]

Yankees Facial Hair

SOUNDCLIP

GERRIT COLE: I have experienced razor burn now for the first time in the last 10 years. [chuckling all around]

CH: To understand that remark that pitcher Gerrit Cole made at a press conference in 2019, you have to know one thing: he used to have a beard. And you have to know one other thing: he had just signed with the New York Yankees. And you have to know one additional thing: the Yankees' grooming policy. In 1973, team owner George Steinbrenner -- a man you could describe as a teddy bear, if teddy bears were made of wire and nails -- instituted a new rule. Quote, "All players, coaches and male executives are forbidden to display any facial hair other than mustaches...and scalp hair may not be grown below the collar." Unquote. And from then on, anyone with the team whose hair crossed a line was in the crosshairs. Hence Mr. Cole's razor burn. It's the most famous grooming policy in sports, probably. So today's statement from the Yankees' managing general partner, Hal Steinbrenner -- some relation -- was almost as momentous as it seems like he thinks it is.

[Pomp and Circumstance/clasical]

CH: "In recent weeks I have spoken to a large number of former and current Yankees -- spanning several eras -- to elicit their perspectives on our longstanding facial hair and grooming policy, and I appreciate their earnest and varied feedback. These most recent conversations are an extension of ongoing internal dialogue that dates back several years. Ultimately the final decision rests with me, and after great consideration, we will be amending our expectations to allow our players and uniformed personnel to have well-groomed beards moving forward. It is the appropriate time to move beyond the familiar comfort of our former policy.” [music fades] Well, there you have it: the end of an era. An hair-ah, if you will. No, you know what, let's go back to "era". And great news for any Yankee who's been waiting to grow facial hair. That previous policy must have really got your goat...tee.

[ambient electronic]

Part 2: B.C. Safer Supply Changes, Cool Egypt Skull

B.C. Safer Supply Changes

Guest: Mark Tyndall

CH: Last year, more than 2,200 people were killed by unregulated drugs in British Columbia. And that's just a fraction of the many thousands of lives that have been lost since the province declared a public health emergency over the drug crisis in 2016. This week, B.C's health minister, Josie Osborne, announced a major change to a provincial program aimed at reducing drug-related deaths. The safer supply program provides regulated opioids to drug users with a prescription. But starting immediately, drug users are no longer able to take those supplies home -- and, instead, will have to consume them under the supervision of a pharmacist. The change is the result of mounting concerns over the diversion of safer supply onto the streets. Here's how Minister Osborne explained the move to the CBC yesterday.

SOUNDCLIP

JOSIE OSBORNE: When we heard anecdotes and stories about inter, about diversion of prescribed alternatives, we set up a special investigation unit to look at this, to work with the RCMP, with the Ministry of Public Public Safety, and the solicitor general, and to take action on this. And with the information that we have now, we've made the decision to move into a witnessed consumption model to help protect people. So, we're going to continue this. We're going to continue the work that we're doing to support people with substance use addictions and help them recover.

CH: That was B.C's health minister, Josie Osborne. Dr. Mark Tyndall is a professor of Population and Public Health at the University of British Columbia, and the former executive director of the BC Centre for Disease Control. We reached him in Vancouver.

HM: Dr. Tyndall, you just heard B.C.'s health minister say that the change is really a matter of safety in her mind. The focus is to help people recover from drug addiction. What effect do you think this change will have?

MARK TYNDALL: Well, I feel it's really canceling the safe supply program. And the concern about diversion is really small print compared to the, you know, 20,000-plus people who have died of fentanyl poisoning in the province.

HM: When you say cancellation, I'm trying to understand what you mean. Because the supply will still be there. It's just to be witnessed when it's being used, right?

MT: Yes. Well, most of the people are receiving what's called hydromorphone, which is a relatively short-acting drug. So, it's, people will be, would use it three, four, five, six times a day. So, it's just very impractical to expect people to have witnessed every time they, they use this drug.

HM: Minister Osborne has painted a different picture. Here is how she has been responding to some of your criticisms. Listen.

SOUNDCLIP

JOSIE OSBORNE: This is not effectively Cancelling this program. And rather, it's the opposite. It is making this program more robust and safer for people. When somebody has witnessed consumption, they are in contact with another human being to help them connect to the treatment, and recovery options, and the supports that they need.

HM: Doctor Tyndall, is it not possible that, you know, being in a pharmacy setting, drug users will end up with more support, as the minister suggests?

MT: Well, I'm all for connection and support. And I think that the safe supply program has, has done a good job of that. But you can imagine that getting that support five times a day is not really adding much to your support. So, it's just really, you cannot use the term that, you know, we're increasing support for people by making them see a pharmacist four times a day. So, it just doesn't work that way. And we know from our methadone programs, which only require people to go once a day, that the biggest barrier is showing up at a pharmacy every day. And people are on and off that program all the time because they just can't keep it up. So, for most people, we know they will not be able to do that. And even practically speaking, what would it take? How many pharmacies would you need for, you know, literally thousands of people coming multiple times a day? It just doesn't make any, any practical sense.

HM: There are legitimate concerns about diversion, though. There are these leaked slides from the Ministry of Health that point out a significant amount of prescription opioids were not being taken by the intended users. So, what, what other options would you suggest that the government take?

MT: Well, I think that diversion has always been a concern from this. And it means that we need to make the programs better, and stronger, and more comprehensive, not, not weaker and, and worse. So, I think that the experience I've had with programs for safe supply, we know the people quite well. We do urine tests. We, we know that very little of it's getting diverted. The diversion that we hear is usually to somebody else who's also dependent on these drugs and, and needs help. So, it's, at least they're not buying fentanyl. So, this idea that the streets are now flooded with diverted safe supply is, I don't believe.

HM: Well, what evidence do you have that it's not the case? Or what evidence do they have that it is? Does more study need to be done?

MT: Well, the drug, the drug trade is always, the foundation has always been diverted pharmaceutical drugs. Though, people get fentanyl all the time now, there's still always been a lot of diversion going on from various sources. And much before any safe supply programs were on target. So, I think that we, you know, we can do, by getting to know the people on the programs better, we can, we can understand. But the, the machine that I was using called My Safe, the biometric machine, it, you know, I didn't have people on it that used it as a cash machine, and they'd get their pills and run out on the street and sell them. So, we knew the people well enough. We, we knew that they were, they were taking them. And the little bit that did get diverted was to usually friends who, who needed some drugs.

HM: Yeah, I just want to clarify for people who may not know, because we spoke to you about this in 2020, this was a program that dispensed hydromorphone through machines to high-risk drug users. So, the, B.C.s former chief coroner, Lisa Lapointe, is backing you in a way. She says the province's move is a really impulsive political decision. Or it looks like one, in any case. Why do you think this is happening now? Why are they making this change at this point?

MT: Oh, it's, it's certainly political. People, especially with the latest talk about fentanyl czars, and drug trafficking, and cartels and things that people are very aware of, you know, the drug trade. But we're really losing sight that we still have a huge problem in this country. I mean, the only practical solution is to offer people an alternative. If there is any other poisoning going on in our community, we wouldn't just sit back and let people poison themselves. We'd, especially if we had a viable alternative. And, and we do have some alternatives. And it's only, the only ethical thing to do is to offer people an alternative so they won't die.

HM: I, I imagine, though, that there are people looking at the situation and, and thinking, what you're trying to do is end this crisis. Is there any effective way to do that?

MT: Well, that's a, that's a great question. I mean, I think we're chipping away at things, but always very, very small. Even the safe supply program that we're talking about probably gets to about 10 per cent of people who may benefit from this kind of program. So, we really need to, you know, scale some of this stuff up. We've done that a bit in British Columbia with supervised injection sites. There's been some focus on some more supportive housing and some more treatment beds. But it's all happening so incrementally and so slowly that we really need to scale all those things up.

HM: Dr. Tyndall, thanks for talking to us.

MT: Okay. Thank you very much.

CH: Dr. Mark Tyndall is a professor of Population and Public Health at the University of British Columbia, and the former executive director of the BC Centre for Disease Control. We reached him in Vancouver.

[newsy theme]

New P.E.I Premier

CH: It's official: Progressive Conservative politician Rob Lantz is the new premier of Prince Edward Island. And he has been since 1 this afternoon. If you thought Dennis King was the Premier of P.E.I., you're correct. He was, until yesterday, when he abruptly resigned, effective today. Mr. Lantz led the provincial PCs in 2015, when the party lost the general election to the Liberals -- and Mr. Lantz failed to win his own seat. They did, however, win the 2019 election, and yesterday, Mr. Lantz was the province's minister of education. At a swearing-in ceremony today, he talked about what it meant to have the unanimous support of MLAs, and the challenge of forming a new government.

SOUNDCLIP

ROB LANTZ: I am truly thankful for the unanimous support of my caucus. The confidence of the Progressive Conservative Party executive. And for every Islander who has reached out over the past day with words of encouragement. I had no idea so many people had my phone number. [laughter all around] Your support gives me confidence and fuels my determination. And I'll work every day to earn the trust you've placed in me. I had a full paragraph here [pause] about my family. [clapping] I cut it out because I'll never get through it. [everyone chuckles] But you know I love you. I never imagined myself back here, but here I am. As we turn this new page, I'm proud of what this government has accomplished. Our province is growing, but everything we've accomplished is under threat. Despite that, our communities are coming together in ways that inspire hope and optimism. And how about that hockey game last night for bringing the country together? [clapping] At a time of uncertainty, whether in trade, tariffs, or the many challenges we face, I am committed to ensuring that Islanders' interests come first. Strengthening our economy and ensuring Islanders have access to essential services will remain top priorities. But turning this page isn't something I can do alone. Government succeeds when it works hand-in-hand with the people it serves. And Dennis King always said it's about people.

CH: The new premier of P.E.I., Rob Lantz, speaking at his swearing-in ceremony, today.

[jaunty tune]

Adrian Ma

CH: NPR's Marie Louise Kelly was at work when she got an unusual email. The subject line read: I knew someone on AA 5342. But it wasn't from a listener. It was from her colleague, Adrian Ma. He sent the note the morning after the American Airlines flight crashed into the Potomac River, after a midair collision with a helicopter last month. And the person Mr. Ma knew was his girlfriend. Her name was Kiah Duggins; she worked as a civil rights lawyer. She was about to start a job as a professor at Howard University School of Law, and help shape the next generation of Black civil rights lawyers. She was on the way back from Wichita, Kansas, where she was visiting a family member who had just had surgery. Adrian Ma took some time away from work. And today, he sat down with Marie Louise Kelly to reflect on that night in the airport lounge at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport -- waiting for news.

SOUNDCLIP

ADRIAN MA: It's really quiet in that room. Outside the windows of this lounge, you can see the crash site.

MARIE LOUISE KELLY: Around 1 a.m, an official with D.C.'s homicide unit came into the room to tell the families that bodies were being recovered from the river, and there would be a process to identify them.

AM: And as he's talking, one woman in this group, which is probably 50 or 60 of us at this point, speaks up and says, wait, wait, wait, are you saying that there aren't any survivors? And the detective says something like, we haven't found any survivors yet. And people in the room just lose it. People are crying. They're breaking down. I'm breaking down because it, it's becoming increasingly real.

MLK: And then, the the days after the crash, would you tell me a little bit about kind of how those have unfurled, how you've been trying to make your way through this?

AM: It basically, it felt like being in emotional hell. In the week after the crash, I probably cried more in that week than I had in decades of being alive. And coming home was really hard. You know, there are reminders of Kiah everywhere. Her glasses are on the nightstand. Her clothes are in the closet. Little curls of her hair are scattered around. I hear echoes of her voice sometimes, especially when I see something, and I want to turn to her, and I want to say, like, hey, check this out. And then, I realize I can't do that anymore.

CH: That was NPR's Adrian Ma talking to his colleague Marie Louise Kelly. Mr. Ma's girlfriend, Kiah Duggins, was one of the passengers who died last month on the American Airlines flight that crashed into the Potomac River after a mid-air collision.

[folk rock]

Cool Egypt Skull

Guest: Shorouq Al-Ashqar

CH: Thirty-million years ago, in a lush forest in Egypt, a leopard-sized carnivore roamed among the trees. It was an apex predator called the hyaenodonta, and it thrived after dinosaurs went extinct. Until it stopped thriving, and then, a while later, stopped existing. But stories of this creature live on today. And recently, a fossil discovery in Egypt led to the discovery of an entirely new species of hyaenodonta called bastetodon syrtos. Shorouq Al-Ashqar was part of the team of paleontologists who uncovered the skull in 2020 in the Fayum Depression of Egypt’s Western Desert. This week, they wrote about the rare finding in the peer-reviewed Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology. We reached Ms. Al-Ashqar in Mansoura, Egypt.

HM: Shorouq, you have said elsewhere that this creature would have looked like the king of the ancient Egyptian forest. That is quite an impressive description. Give us a sense of what this creature would have looked like.

SHOROUQ AL-ASHQAR: Bastetodon was a leopard-sized, fearless meat eater animal that lived in the Fayum Desert 30 million years ago. It had sharp teeth and powerful jaw muscles, suggesting that it has a very strong bite force. We can frankly say that it is really the king of the ancient forest.

HM: Given the size of the skull that, that you discovered, how big would this animal have been?

SAA: It weigh 27 kilograms. So, it's closer to a leopard and modern hyena.

HM: But what made it such a threat then was less its size and more the size of that jaw and its teeth?

SAA: Yeah. What's made it a fearless animal is that its teeth, it were like scissors or like food processing machine.

HM: Wow. So, it would, presumably, it was a carnivore. What kind of animals would it have hunted?

SAA: Well, bastetodon was lived in a forest. And there were a lot of prey to feed, feed on like the ancestors of hippos, elephants, and maybe monkeys like in Egyptology 'cause all of these fossils were found in the same site.

HM: Now, you discovered the fossil back in 2020. Take us back to that moment. What happened?

SAA: Actually, I didn't find the, the fossil myself. But one of my colleagues, Bilal, was the first to spot it. In the spring of 2020, and during the pandemic, Dr. Salem and our team decided to take a break from COVID and spend some of the quarantine time in the desert, specifically in the Fayum Depression. There, Bilal spotted some large teeth sticking out from the ground, and shouted excitedly to the rest of the team. And that was a moment.

HM: I bet everyone gasped when they saw it.

SAA: Yeah, yeah yeah, I was impressed. Wow, we have a three dimensional skull. It's incredible.

HM: So, it's fair to say this, this is a rarely rare discovery, right?

SAA: For any paleontologist to find a three, a3D dimensional skull or 3D dimensional fossil, it's very rare because it's buried under the rocks for millions of millions of years. So, the normal thing is to find it compacted, but to find that it's like it died yesterday.

HM: So, how complete is the skull? How much of it do you have?

SAA: I think it's nearly a complete skull. It doesn't miss any of its elements.

HM: Wow!

SAA: Maybe, maybe some cracks. And that's normal.

HM: Do you have any idea how this creature so powerful ended up becoming extinct?

SAA: Yeah, that's a very good question. They were very strong in the, some of these animals, or some of hyaenodonta, they were gigantic. And they were really fearsome animals. So, there are many hypotheses for that. It's debatable. Some scientists believe that the climate change and the change in vegetation and the reduction in the, in the number of the preys for hyaenodonta. Another hypothesis that the, the competition with the modern carnivore.

HM: How were you able to determine that this is actually an entirely new species?

SAA: First of all, we have to compare the skull with them as much as we can with other hyaenodonta, at least from the same family that, or superfamily that were discovered from different regions in the, in the world. So, we compare it with the taxa from North America, and Europe, and Europa, and Asia, and India. And also, we did phylogenetic analysis to see the family tree. These morphological comparisons, along with the phylogenetic analysis or the family tree, provides us strong clues that we have new genus.

HM: And why did you name it bastetodon syrtos?

SAA: Yes, I like this part of the story. Bastetodon syrtos lacks the wisdom tooth. So, like, modern cats. So, we are super proud of our Egyptian, ancient Egyptian history. So, we dig in to find any symbol to cats. Then we found that there was a cat-headed goddess in ancient Egyptian called Bastet. So, yeah, we named it after Bastete, which is symbol to protection and to pleasure in ancient Egyptian.

HM: That's great. I love that. This discovery was made in the Fayum Depression, a place that has been studied for over a century. What is the potential for more major fossil finds like this in the coming years?

SAA: Fayum Depression is one of the most important for an area in Africa or in the world that give us information about the African or past African ecosystem, and the evolution of African mammals like elephants, primates, and hyaenodonta.

HM: Shorouq, thank you for telling us about the find, and, and the implications as well, I appreciate it.

SAA: Thank you. It was nice to be with you here.

CH: Shorouq Al-Ashqar was part of the team of paleontologists who uncovered the fossil of a previously undiscovered species of hyaenodonta. We reached her in Mansoura, Egypt.

[ambient instrumental]

Part 3: Snow Accessibility, Iowa Library Obscenity

Snow Accessibility

Guest: Allie Pauld

CH: Walking in a winter wonderland sounds great in the song. But in reality, it's not necessarily a beautiful sight that makes you happy tonight. In fact, it can be a serious problem. After the recent storms, snow has been piled so high in some cities in Eastern Canada that crews are still working to clear it. And for those with mobility issues, getting around on unshoveled sidewalks is especially difficult. Allie Pauld is a disability educator and content creator who uses a motorized wheelchair. We reached her at home in her building in Montreal -- which she hasn't been able to leave for days.

HM: Allie, when was the last time you were outside?

ALLIE PAULD: Last Friday.

HM: Last Friday. How has that been for you?

AP: Not easy. I'm really lucky that I have a support system that could help me if I needed to get something from the store or something like that. And I had, like, a good reserve of food prior to last Friday. But it's not easy to know that if something did happen, that I couldn't, that I wouldn't be able to fulfill my own needs by myself. Like, I can do it usually.

HM: Yeah. And just, I'm thinking even just psychologically. Do you kind of feel hemmed in?

AP: I mean, yeah, I think it really changes the options that you have when it comes, when something does come up, right? The idea that I have to get everything to myself and that I can't physically go anymore. So, yeah, I definitely.

HM: Yeah. No. So, when you look out, or see, I guess, reports around on the news as well, what are the roads and sidewalks near your home looking like right now?

AP: So, I'm actually lucky that I'm in an area that's a bit more clear than other places. However, it's still not clear enough everywhere where I could go outside safely as a wheelchair user. But for pedestrians, like, it would probably be a lot easier for them than it is for me.

HM: If you had to get outside, say in any kind of emergency or anything, is there a way you could, you could do that? Are there people who could help you with that process?

AP: I mean, in an emergency situation, like a fire in my building, let's say, then, yeah. And that's a whole other conversation into, like, overall, like, emergency protocols and people with a disability. But there's a ramp. You know, and my building, for me to go outside, unfortunately, the maintenance men in my building cleared the stairs, but not the ramp that well. So, that definitely, like, limits my mobility. But, you know, if something really urgent happened, then yeah, I would, I would find ways to, to get out safely.

HM: Now, you mentioned that you did have a lot of stuff in. Did you specifically prepare in advance knowing that the storm was coming?

AP: No. It was just, like, an actually good coincidence that I had, like, a lot of, like, canned foods. I'm vegetarian, so I eat a lot of, like, legumes and stuff like that. But, yeah, like, I don't have fresh produce, and I don't know when I'll have some again unless I get groceries delivered.

HM: Yeah. So, you're on social media, and you do speak out about accessibility issues. You must be hearing from other people in the community about how they're navigating the snow, or not able to navigate the snow. Can you, can you share some of what you're hearing?

AP: Yeah. I have some, I guess you could call them online peers who also do this work in Toronto, who have been sharing their experiences. And the streets of Montreal are exactly the same. It's really, really difficult. I think everybody is seeing those videos of people kind of struggling to climb their way through the snow, but for us, this is something that we experience, like, all winter long in Canada. But there's also, like, more to say about just accessibility in general. And how for us, like, this limited mobility. And having a hard time using transportation. Like, we have to deal with that year round. But for sure, I'm not the only person in, you know, in, in Montreal or even in Canada dealing with this right now. Disabled, the disabled community is really, is really, like, feeling this harder than everybody else, truly. Yeah.

HM: Yeah. And people, all people like to feel that they can rely on themselves. That, I guess, that affects your sense of, of autonomy, right?

AP: Sure, sure. And I think, again, for a lot of us, like I said, this type of feeling of, you know, either being, like, literally trapped in our apartments because of the state of, of the streets or, you know, having hard, harder access to transportation, or to whatever store that we need to go to because of architectural inaccessibility. Like, that's something that we have to experience all year long. And so, this feeling of our autonomy being restrained because of inaccessibility is just heightened right now. But, and so, yeah, it's, it's worse right now. But we feel like that all the time, unfortunately.

HM: Now, with the current situation, the city of Montreal has been saying it'll take at least a week. They said that earlier in the week, as a matter of fact, before they get the snow fully cleared. In Toronto, it's three weeks. Do you think those timelines are reasonable?

AP: I mean, to be honest, I'm not super knowledgeable about, you know, how long this, these types of protocol really take. I know, especially in Montreal, like, the streets are so narrow, and parking is really, really difficult. And so, it's people's cars, and pedestrians, and, you know, garbage retrieval and all of those services, like, and things really make the process harder and more complex. And so, I think it's very likely that it won't take a week, it's most likely going to take longer, which, you know, that stuff happens, right? And we can't do much. So, obviously, we can do certain things to make this process easier. But I think it would be important for people to realize that the way that this process is being made longer because of all of these things. Like, the government could do more to make that process easier. And, again, when we talk about accessibility on a larger scale, those efforts are not even being started ever at all. So, yeah.

HM: So, [chuckle] what's the first thing you're going to do when that snow is finally cleared enough that you can actually safely get around?

AP: I mean, I'm probably going to go to the grocery store, to be frank, to the pharmacy, stuff like that. But, yeah, I guess we'll see when that is. And my answer will possibly change. But yeah, probably just buy a couple of stuff.

HM: All those things people take for granted.

AP: Yeah.

HM: All right. Allie, thank you so much for talking with us. I hope you get out there soon.

AP: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

CH: Allie Pauld is a disability educator and content creator. We reached her in Montreal.

[chillhop]

Jim Cuddy

CH: Since Blue Rodeo formed in 1984, the band has gone through a lot of changes. Members have come and gone, and the music has evolved over the course of 16 studio albums. And now, the story of that evolution is being told in a new documentary that shares a name with one the band's biggest hits: Lost Together. Co-frontman and founding member Jim Cuddy told the CBC what it was like to reflect on the last 40 years.

SOUNDCLIP

JIM CUDDY: I think that bands are, you know, it's like like sharks have to keep going, and having water flowed through. However, it has been enjoyable to look back because we have so many different, you know, this was the collective memory. This was, this was trying to arrange everybody and saying, are we all remembering the same thing? And that was really fascinating for me. I think that everybody had their own perspective. I realized I had suppressed a lot of the bad stuff and just plowed through. I listened to everybody else, and, and I think what we ended up with was, was, was a through line that was, that we we all could agree that's what happened. And so, it was, it was kind of fascinating. It was like was, like tidying up the past.

ELAMIN ABDEMAHMOUD: Listen, we are, you know, in a morning of reflecting a little bit about nationalism, and reflecting a little bit about, you know, the thing that distinguishes us from the United States. And we're holding closely, I think, the things that we cherish in this country. And one of the things that I cherish is I do think that today, Americans should be forced specifically to listen to your version of Four Strong Winds. [JC chuckles] Like, that should be the way that we celebrate this win. Like, that's our trophy because I, that that version for me is, in fact, the triumphant version. The slide guitar on that version is unbelievable, man. I'm so grateful for the moments the Blue Rodeo have given us. Last question for you. This documentary is called Lost Together. At a lot of your shows, you bring up other musicians, lesser known artists, to sing that song with you. I know those moments mean a lot to those artists, but what have they meant for you?

JC: Well, let me just comment on what you said too, because I think that, you know, all the talk about the, the, the, you know, the abuse that we're getting from the American administration right now, things that are lost, and that things are very important to Canadians are Canadian culture. And all how we're represented in music, books, and movies, and TV, on the radio, things that are, that we think are high-quality and speak to us. And so, for us in music, we recognized long ago that, that we were a small but significant contributor to that, to that character that, that, that Canadians appreciate. So, finding new musicians, coming against, you know, coming up against the Tara Lightfoot's, and, and, and, and all the other people that that come up, it's exciting for us to to to witness, continually witness, talent. So, it, in a greater, you know, in a macro view, I think that it's, it's important for us all to remember that this whole battle is not just about economics. It's about our character as represented in our culture.

CH: That's Blue Rodeo's Jim Cuddy speaking to Elamin Abdelmahmoud on Metro Morning, today.

[psychedelic rock]

Iowa Library Obscenity

Guest: Sam Helmick

CH: There's a new battlefield in America's on-going library wars, as state law-makers seek to pull back protections that prevent libraries and their workers from facing obscenity charges. In Iowa this week, a new bill became one step to becoming law, after it was passed by a House committee. The legislation would lift an exemption in the state's obscenity laws that shields libraries and educational institutions. Proponents argue the measure will protect minors from exposure to sexually explicit content. It follows a 2023 state law that banned books depicting any sex act from school library shelves -- which led to the removal of The Handmaid's Tale, The Color Purple, 1984, and thousands of other titles. Sam Helmick is a librarian, the former President of the Iowa Library Association, and President-elect of the American Library Association. We reached them in Des Moines.

HM: Sam, there are some who will argue that obscene materials do not belong in libraries or schools, so that no exemption should be needed. From where you sit, why do such institutions need an exemption from Iowa's obscenity laws?

SAM HELMICK: That's an excellent question, and I'm really glad that the Supreme Court sort of reconciled and thought this through for us in 1973 with the Miller test. I think it's because we can research the collections and the curriculums across the nation and recognize that a lot of theological texts, and classical texts, and medical texts would require us to have an exemption in order to educate, inform, and edify folks getting information about topics that might sometimes philosophically, or clinically, or emotionally be intense in order to understand how to best navigate their world.

HM: If the bill passes, what is the worst-case scenario for a librarian in Iowa?

SH: So, a librarian in Iowa might be seeing a range of response, depending on the considered legal implications and threats to not only Iowa library workers, but the institutions they serve. We've seen responses ranging in the nation from like Llano County, Texas closing down and trying to recognize what titles might or might not be subject to this level of heightened scrutiny and litigation and penalty. And then, having their pending, you know, lawsuit and reopening. We've also seen libraries in Idaho that have become age gated, so minors can't enter without an adult or a caregiver, and folks are carded at the door. I think this will be up to the 544 public libraries in the state of Iowa to individually sort of absorb and figure out. Because, as we know, there are not only legal penalties and civil penalties to the library workers, but obviously to the institutions that they serve, both the library and the municipality or district.

HM: What impact is that kind of talk having on, on you and your fellow librarians? I'm assuming you hear from people all over your state, are they feeling personally threatened or some kind of a chill?

SH: I think that we're showing a lot of things. The first is that most of the library workers that I'm sharing circles with are keeping our heads down and trying to continue to serve in our anchor institutions for our communities and provide access to learning and resources, and opportunity. But the library communities around us are getting tired. I think they're tired of not having local control over their libraries, and being trusted to manage not only the local level of the family, but the local level of the library board. I'm, I'm going to share a little bit of a point of pride. In 1938, the Des Moines Public Library director, Forrest Spaulding, actually wrote the Library Bill of Rights before it was adopted by the American Library Association a year later. So, we actually have a piece of the history of an international standard of free people reading freely. And I think a lot of us have felt a mourning, a loss of our representatives recognizing that hundreds of us are commenting, and emailing, and coming to committee hearings, and asking that we continue to have control over our reading lives in our, in our libraries.

HM: Other opponents of, of this legislation are calling it a book ban. The, the state rep who authored it, Helena Hayes, denies that. She describes that characterization as, and I'm quoting, an easy out. And she goes on to say, anybody who wants to do anything about age appropriateness or setting any boundaries whatsoever is automatically seen to be a book ban. What do you say to that? Is this a book ban or not?

SH: Oh, that's a good question, too. I think it's actually worse. I think it's a cop-out to abdicate to a state power, the right for parents to teach their children about the world in the ways and in the timings that they would choose, with the information accessible to them through the public library. I was raised to be, I'm a born again Christian in the state of Iowa. I am a 20-year registered Republican, and I can't imagine what my life would be like if my parents hadn't had their fingertips and their perspective in my home school curriculum, if they hadn't been invested in the books and the information I was pursuing. And if we hadn't had robust discussion. When I was six years old, I got to play Mary in the Christmas pageant at my local church. And so, that meant that I had sex ed, because the absence of something with immaculate conception suggests the presence of something else. My parents have the right to teach me about reproduction in the way, and then the times that they wanted to. And I think it would be a cop-out and horribly remiss if I were to try to take that right away from parents in Iowa today.

HM: There are parents who are going to say no, they can't supervise their kids all the time. They're not seeing necessarily what their kids are getting at the library, and they are worried about what they might be exposed to. So, what do you say to them?

SH: I say to them that you teach them in the way they should go, and they never shall depart from it, and that we live in an information age, where, of course, with tablets in school, cell phones in hands, bumper stickers on the backs of cars as we even drive on the bus to the library, you're going to have ideas that can often feel uncomfortable, or pejorative, or counter to our own philosophical views. And that the best weapon against ideas and concerns was information that you may have are better ideas and more information. The library that I work in has about 115 people walk in an hour, and I imagine each one of them stewards the informational journey of their children and themselves in a very unique way, which is, frankly, in the American way. Much of these conversations, and many of these bills are simply to dismantle publicly funded institutions. And I want to make the American public aware that that is what is at stake.

HM: Is that what you think is really going on here? That it's, it's much bigger than protecting kids from obscene materials?

SH: When I, when I believe that this has been settled by the Supreme Court in 1973, which, frankly, was seven years before I was born, and I realized that we operate in the day of the internet, and that more now than ever before, parents have access to what their children are consuming, I have to wonder what's really at stake here, particularly when I see that books are not being read in their entirety, and collections are being questioned, even when those books don't exist in the library that the person is talking about. So, I want to come at this conversation with good faith, but I'm noticing that there has to be something else at play because I have to wonder what this is really about because we're not having a robust discussion about the topics that we say is at hand.

HM: Sam, thank you for your time today. I appreciate talking with you.

SH: It was a delight to talk to you. Thank you so much.

CH: Sam Helmick is the President-elect of the American Library Association, and a librarian. We reached them in Des Moines, Iowa.

[hip-hop]

Encore: P.E.I. Seal Rescue

CH: If there is a seal in your life, you might want to check up on it. Seems like there's something about seals needing to be rescued at this time of year. Yesterday on As It Happens, we told you about the baby gray seal that was found wandering -- or waddling? you know: locomoting like a seal -- on the snowy streets of New Haven, Connecticut. Which was not where it was supposed to be. The baby seal was eventually rescued, and is currently recuperating at a nearby aquarium before it's released back into the wild. But, last February, we spoke to Matthew Muirhead -- a police officer on Prince Edward Island -- after he saved a baby seal and drove it back to the coast in his car. Here is Mr. Muirhead's conversation with guest host Peter Armstrong, last year.

SOUNDCLIP

PA: [chuckling] So, take us back. What can you tell us about the call you received that set you off on this adventure?

MM: Well, we received the call probably, you know, on 6 or 6:30 that night from MARS. MARS is located out in, in Nova Scotia. It's the marine animal, I guess, rescue services.

PA: Right.

MM: That there was a seal walking up the highway in Murray Harbour.

PA: Now, forgive me, I'm from Toronto, so I think an animal on the road; why did the police need to get involved in that? Why not kind of just let nature do its thing, let it wander around? Why do police need to step in in a case like that?

MM: Police don't always need to step in cases like that. Sometimes on shift, there's going to be other different services that could handle it. But we had just had a recent storm here in P.E.I. and the snow just for quite high. Ice was frozen. And I guess the animal must have gotten turned around and just didn't know how to get back to where it needed to be. And it was on, it was on a highway, so there's obviously traffic. And it's, you know, out here in the Atlantic, Canada there's not lights on every highway.

PA: [chuckling] Right!

MM: So, it could have been, [chuckling] it could have been a bad thing for the seal.

PA: And just to be clear, it wasn't exactly along the coast where you found the seal, right?

MM: No, we probably it was about three kilometres from when I could see our map from, from the ocean.

PA: Like, man, that's a long way.

MM: It's a ways. Yeah, for a baby seal.

PA: And how big of a seal are we talking about here?

MM: Probably around 50 to 75 pounds. He was probably, three, three-and-a-half, four feet long. We say baby seal. It probably wasn't a baby. It was probably a pup. So, a little bit older. It's not just something that I could just pick up on my own and just put it in the bag and put it in the back of my car.

PA: Right. Like this is the size of a good sized dog, but it's like pure muscle.

MM: Correct. Yeah, probably a good German Shepherd size. And it's solid.

PA: So you get there. Were the residents around sort of pointing you to where the seal was?

MM: Yeah. So when we came down the road, we were able to see a car with its four ways on. And they were just basically following, following the seal up the road and making sure traffic was diverted for it before someone could get there to help it out. Never had a seal before. Never had to deal with the seal before. Dealt with all kinds of other animals. And usually, I just try and, you know, shoo them into the woods and get them moving along their way. But he wasn't having anything to do with that. And, you know, he needed to be in water. So, we had to figure out a different way to get this pup in our car and down to some place where we could get it safe.

PA: What did you try first? Were you looking for, like, a blanket in your car or something? How do you approach that situation?

MM: Yeah, we have blankets in the back of our cars, but they're, they're rather thin. They're the emergency blankets. So, like, they're they're good for heat, but they're --

PA: Slippery.

MM: Good for, yeah, they're slippery. And seals might be biting through that. [PA chuckles] So there was a lady nearby who was helping out with the traffic, and she just walked to her house and managed to get us a cord that we could try and make a leash out of, sort of, to get it wrapped up and, you know, pull it in towards our car. That didn't work. He was having nothing of that, so she brought us a blanket -- a pretty thick blanket -- and we basically got it up and around and wrapped the seal up into, like, a burrito and put him in the car.

PA: [laughing] A seal burrito.

MM: Seal burrito, yeah.

PA: Now, from the moment you arrived to the moment the seal burrito technique finally worked, how long are we talking?

MM: I'd say anything from 25, probably 20-25 minutes. Yeah, he wasn't, he wasn't going easy.

PA: [chuckling] Like, what is the disposition of the, [MM chuckles] of the seal through this?

MM: He wasn't happy with us. He was hissing at us and snapping at us, you know, so we backed off a little bit. We didn't want to, we didn't want to cause any harm to the animal either, you know, by getting it overexcited. So, we just tried to do this as [chuckle] I don't even know the word. [PA chuckles] As calmly as possible for everybody involved, I guess.

PA: And have I got this right? You got bit during this process.

MM: I did. When I tried to wrap the blanket under his neck, he got a, he got a snap at my finger. But I'm wearing, I was wearing puncture-proof gloves that we do wear. So, just a quick pain. No, it didn't puncture my my skin or anything, so like that. So, yeah.

PA: Now, you load the seal eventually into your patrol car. You've probably had people that you've said acted like wild animals. [MM laughs] But what is it like actually driving with a wild animal -- a seal -- in the back of your patrol car?

MM: It actually wasn't what I thought it was going to be. I figured he'd be squirming and smashing and just making all kinds of noise. He just laid back on that seat and was quiet. And he enjoyed the drive. It's, that was, that was quite the shocker.

PA: [chuckling] Put on some music for the seal.

MM: [laughing] Yeah, no, there was nothing. [both laugh]

PA: Okay. So you get it to, to the destination, I suppose.

MM: Yeah.

PA: And everything ends well there?

MM: Well, we got him down to what's called the Murray, well, Murray Wharf Lane is what I call it. There's a harbour there. There's like a fishing plant down there. But I guess the ice was too thick for him to just get into water. So we dropped in there, hoping he'd crawl out towards the broken water, and we headed back to our detachment. And we got another call that same buddy was headed up the wharf lane and headed towards the highway again.

PA: [chuckles] Stubborn little thing.

MM: [chuckling] He was. He knew where he wanted to go, I guess.

PA: So you find him again. This time, you've got your technique, no doubt. Was it, was it easier the second time to wrap him up and get him back in?

MM: Much easier the second time. I actually arrived first. There's three of us headed up to that one. I arrived first, got the blanket out, wrapped him up and just waited for the other boys to get there. And once they got there, we picked him up, put him in the, put him in the car again and we took him down to Murray River, where I knew the ice was broken. And there's a place called Seal Cove, so maybe he could go visit some family. Who knows, right? But we got him down there, and, yeah, he got into that water and took off. So it was great.

CH: From Our Archives, that's RCMP Constable Matthew Muirhead speaking to guest host Peter Armstrong, last February.

[indie pop]

Big Butts

CH: They've got bug butts and I cannot lie. Not long ago, a group of Spanish entomologists stumbled on a very odd scene in a termite nest in Morocco. Blow fly larvae. Now, the first odd thing was that termites tend to kill any nest guests that show up uninvited. But these ones appeared not only well, but well cared for. And the second odd thing explains the first odd thing: in research published last week in the journal Current Biology, the scientists reveal what they discovered about how the interlopers had managed to integrate so fully: by having backsides that closely mimic the frontsides of the termites. Or in lay-language -- their butts look just like a termite face -- only with a slightly more vacant expression. It's a chilling sight.They've even got butt tentacles that look like termite antennae. But if you're questioning termites' intelligence, I should add that most termites can't see well -- or at all. And the baby blow flies also have somehow managed to emit the unique scent colony members use to recognize each other. Exactly how or why the face-rumped larvae ended up there is anyone's guess. But obviously, to a blow fly parent, it's all about how the kids are reared.

The AIH Transcript For February 21, 2025

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