Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2024

The AIH transcript for August 20, 2024

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

SUSAN BONNER: Hello, I'm Susan Bonner, sitting in for Nil Köksal.

LISA BRYN RUNDLE: Good evening, I'm Lisa Bryn Rundle, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

LBR: Tonight:

SB: Fire in his village... and in his belly. Much of his hometown and the landscape around it are gone. A Greek firefighter describes the worst blaze he's seen in his lifetime -- and his determination to prepare for the next one.

LBR: Aisle be there. There aren't enough grocery stores in Chicago for everyone to have food nearby. So the city is considering opening one of its own.

SB: Resting in anonymity. Dozens of graves in a Nova Scotia cemetery bear numbers instead of names. A woman who helped figure out who exactly was buried there wants to fix that.

LBR: Remembering Alex Dancyg. He was among the six Israeli hostages whose bodies were recovered overnight from Gaza. He was also a father, a grandfather and a Holocaust educator. We'll bring you his son's description of his outlook on life.

SB: Higher power. Cancer patient Thomas Hartle won the right to use magic mushrooms as an end-of-life therapy. He used the time before his death to fight for others to have that option, too.

LBR: And... love nest. Forty thousand locks attached to a bridge in England as tokens of romance were going to be removed and melted down. But now a local estate owner has agreed to save them by rehousing them.

LBR: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that loves a moving story.

Part 1: Greece Fires, Chicago Public Grocer, Love Locks Saved

Greece Fires

Guest: Vasilis Katsivardas

LBR: Greece is experiencing its hottest summer on record, with wildfires sweeping across the greater Athens area. And today, Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis is visiting the Athens suburb of Penteli to unveil a fire-restoration plan. Over the last week, three hospitals there had to be evacuated, their timber factory burned down and explosions were heard all over the village from fuel tanks and gas cylinders. Although there are no longer any active fires in the area -- officials remain on high alert. And new fires are popping up in other parts of the country every day. Vasilis Katsivardas is a fire sergeant at the local volunteer fire station. We reached him in Penteli, Greece.

SB: Vasilis, what does Penteli look like today?

VASILIS KATSIVARDAS: It's a totally new picture. I'm a resident here for 25 years, and it's the first time I have to say that it's, it's fully struck from this fire. So everything has changed there. The life as we know, the scenery, the forests and the mountain. It's completely gone. Started like this, and then it transforms as you enter the village to structure fire by destroying homes and everything.

SB: And how about the people? Are your friends and family, how are they doing?

VK: Yes, of course. It's, for some people, it's difficult. For some, it's even more because there are people have lost their homes. You have to know that Penteli Mountain includes the villages of Penteli. And the fire started from the mountain. And it climbed down Penteli village -- the first one. And then, the biggest destruction happened to Penteli as it it enter the main urban web and destroyed a lot of homes. Yes, many friends that I know. Also neighbours from the other side of the street, they have lost their homes. So they have to find new settlements to stay.

SB: Can you take me back to last week? How, how fast did this fire hit Penteli?

VK: Well, yes. You know what? I will talk now as a volunteer firefighter. I was here, was on patrol on Sunday. And nobody could imagine that such a fire would run to Penteli because it was a pretty long. But the speed of the wind, it was such that we were expecting this to happen. The Next day -- Monday, 12 -- we started from a call from 1-1-2, informing us to evacuate the village, of course. And then, we went there and we were given different roles. I'm a fire truck driver. I was up in the mountain. Other colleagues went, to help the other side, and but we saw that it was climbing down and the speed was tremendous. Not possible to, to hold such a fire. The wind was spreading the burning material from place to place where there were pine trees everywhere. So it was not like, we were fighting in many fronts. And along that were people crying. First, homes started to be on fire. And we tried to save as many homes as we could and then at the same time with the police to evacuate people because that, that's a difficult thing. When it's wildlife, wildfire, you have to know what you know. But when it becomes urban, it's such a dimension you have also to take away people. And -- first of all -- it's priority.

SB: And you are fighting this fire in your own community. What happened to your own home?

VK: Yes. Thank God, my home had a narrow escape. Because when we were fighting in this neighbourhood -- the fires in other homes -- suddenly, I saw my home. It was fully encircled. I had taken my family in the morning of Monday. I was sure that this would happen. And I have told them to go away to some friends' homes. So I was alone with my son. My son also is 20 years old. He serves as well as a volunteer firefighter. And we were split. And when you saw that, I said, okay, now the home is full-on flame. I don't know what happened because it was fully covered by smoke -- all the neighbourhood. I called my wife and I told her maybe we've lost our home. Let's see what happened after the smoke cleared. And I saw that it was everything was burned there -- the garden and the trees. But -- hopefully -- it just jumped over home and went other direction.

SB: And yet, this fire season is, is far from over in Greece.

VK: Yes. Yes.

SB: You say you're working with your son, who's also a volunteer firefighter. What are you expecting, and what are you doing to prepare for what you're expecting?

VK: How we prepare. We are still on patrol. Many ground forces from other provinces from Greece have come here. And we also patrolling at night -- a special place. What we scared are for reignitions. There will be winds this week as well as we see the middle. What we are hoping is to have some rain. But there is, it's a dry season, so you have to know that it was one of the dry season we've ever experienced in Penteli. No, normally, we have snowfalls, rains. Nothing of this has happened. There are still people there. The prime minister visited Penteli because it officially will be named a fire-struck territory -- which means, so and he he came, today to see us.

SB: What would you tell the Prime Minister about the kinds of things that you saw as you were fighting that chaotic fire, as, as he tries to lay out some kind of fire prevention strategy for the region?

VK: There were people for the fire services there. And -- for sure -- they have communicated with him what are the weaknesses here. So far -- now -- there is no, [chuckle] there is no more -- what can I say -- forest to burn. But still, there are things that need to be done in order to be able to, to see the next year, a new forest again. Otherwise -- now -- it's, it's a dead territory. I mean, it's still burning like, like hell in the afternoon. There is no rain, and you can still smell the smoke, even though there isn't one a week.

SB: Well, I am sorry for what you've been through, and, and we wish you luck getting things back to normal and with the rest of the fire season.

VK: Thank you very much for this. It's very kind of you that you are promoting those bad moments. And it's very nice to, to make people know that there should be help. I mean, the climate has changed -- definitely. I saw as a volunteer firefighter they are not the same. The fires are more deadlier. They're faster. Everything is, it's true about the climate. We have only to prevent it. You cannot stop it. We have to be proactive, not reactive, I believe.

SB: Thank you so much for your time today, and best of luck to you.

VK: Thank you -- Susan -- for this interview. Thank you very much.

LBR: Vasilis Katsivardas is a fire sergeant at the volunteer fire station in Penteli. We reached him in Penteli, Greece.

[sombre instrumental]

Chicago Public Grocer

Guest: Umi Grigsby

LBR: When the Democratic National Convention opened in Chicago last night, Mayor Brandon Johnson took the stage to make the case for his city.

SOUNDCLIP

BRANDON JOHNSON: Welcome to the greatest city in the world -- Chicago. [clapping and cheering] Where Ida B. Wells And Jane Addams organized to deliver real transformative change across this country. Chicago --

[fades]

LBR: But Chicago is facing tough challenges. Among them: a proliferation of food deserts -- as thousands of low-income residents watch major grocers pack up and leave their neighbourhoods. It's why the city is considering opening up a publicly-owned municipal grocery store. It's an idea that a new feasibility study has called a necessary one. Umi Grigsby is Chicago's chief of policy. That's where we reached her.

SB: Ms. Grigsby, can you describe what a city-owned and operated grocery store would look like? How it would function?

UMI GRIGSBY: So for us, we are very grateful through our partnership with Economic Security Project and our consultants HRNA for providing us with a feasibility study that gives us a variety of scenarios, right? And so, one of those scenarios is that we have a, the city buys a structure and outfits that structure and then partners with a local operator. And then the operator runs the actual grocery store. So that's one option. Another option would be that the city rents a structure and then subleases that structure to a local operator. So those are two scenarios that would -- for us -- meet the requirements of what would be a city-owned grocery store.

SB: What are locals telling you about the lack of grocery stores in their city?

UG: So -- you know -- we have a Food Equity Council that is made up of long-time community advocates. And we've heard from the committee, from the community groups that it's not just about one grocery store. It's about the entire food ecosystem. It's about food as a driver of both health and wealth. So an example that the mayor will say sometimes is that he lives in Austin -- in Austin community in Chicago. People travel out of Austin into a nearby suburb of Oak Park to a Pete's Market in Oak Park to purchase their groceries. Austin is a community on our west side of Chicago. And so, the south and west side of Chicago -- you know -- suffers; we have communities that have long suffered from historic disinvestment. And when you have communities that are then leaving their communities to go elsewhere to find healthy food options, then you're also further exacerbating that historic disinvestment.

SB: Is it not the case that over the last two years, at least six stores have shut down in the city's south and west sides?

UG: Yes. Yes, at least six stores. And even if you look at the levels of access, some of our communities in the Southside -- you know -- 90 per cent of people have a lack of access to fresh and healthy options. And so -- you know -- the communities are telling us that they want these options, but we also, they're also telling us that we have to look at the whole food ecosystem. And really, thinking about not only food as -- you know -- we have an outside big box grocery store coming in and opening up the location. Because -- as it says in the feasibility study -- one of the reasons that is leading to an exacerbation of a lack of access to food is this sole reliance on the private sector.

SB: Has the city considered options -- for example -- tax incentives and other incentives that, that might convince these private businesses to stay in the community?

UG: So one thing that's important about how we're looking at these so-called -- you know -- public options as part of our overall public option strategy is that it really is about a public-private partnership, but not in the way that everyone thinks about a public-private partnership. A lot of times, people only think about government and -- you know -- the private sector -- these big box grocers. But in this situation, we're thinking about the whole range of community stakeholders. It's community groups. It's also its community advocates. And then, it's also philanthropy. And so, we're really thinking about this is we want to have these grocers at the table to let us know the reasons why they haven't stayed in these communities, and why they've closed, and why we -- you know -- how we can create partnerships that will ensure that we have lasting solutions, and we have grocers that will stay in the long term.

SB: Chicago is the first major American city to contemplate something like this. It's, it's not the first time that it's been done, though. In smaller centres, these kinds of operations are in effect. And they're money losers, are they not?

UG: I don't, I wouldn't say that. Because I also would say that the reason that it's important that the city leans into this. Is that we're thinking about our ultimate goal being that of ensuring that people have access to food, and healthy food, healthy and fresh food. Our focus is not -- as a city -- is going to be on providing for our residents. It's not necessarily going to be on profitability.

SB: Even if the city has to take a big loss? I mean, what, at what point does the city have to, have to consider that in -- for example -- in Kansas, some of these operations have lost quite a bit of money.

UG: Well, the good news is that -- you know -- one of the reasons we took the route of first doing a feasibility study is that we have an understanding of best practices. We have an understanding of the research. We have an understanding of what we need to avoid and what we don't need to avoid. While I'm telling you that our first goal is going to be providing for our residents, that also means that we have to listen to our Department of Planning. We have to listen to our world in Chicago. We have to listen to the community advocates who have been fighting in this area.

SB: What do you say to people who will hear what you're saying and say it's a very noble effort? It's probably needed, but there's a lot of skepticism around the city's ability to pull this off more efficiently -- say -- than a private business. Grocers will tell you that their margins are thin, and Chicago has a $538 million budget gap. So how do you address that skepticism?

UG: Well, I think the way we address that is say come and talk to us and come and be a part of the solution. We are looking at internal and external groups that have all of the different voices at the table. And the goal is for all of us to link arms and come up with a solution that is specific to Chicago, that is unique to Chicago. We understand that there are people who will say the city should not go in this direction, but we also know that there are people who -- upon hearing that we're doing this -- are rolling up their sleeves and reaching out to us and saying that they want to be a part of the solution, and they want to be a part of helping us find a solution.

SB: Well, thank you very much for your time today, and we wish you luck.

UG: Thank you so much.

LBR: Umi Grigsby is Chicago's chief of policy. She was in Chicago.

[ambient electronic]

Alex Dancyg Obit

LBR: For months and months, Alex Dancyg's family and friends have hoped to have him home again. He was among the Israeli hostages taken by Hamas on October 7th. In July, the Israeli military announced his death in captivity. Now, Alex Dancyg is one of the six hostages whose bodies were recovered overnight by Israeli soldiers during an operation in Gaza. In late October, Alex's son -- Matty Dancyg -- spoke to Nil about his dad. Here is part of what he had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

MATTY DANCYG: My father is a Polish citizen. He was born in Poland. All the relatives of his side from their parents was murdered in the Holocaust. His parents were able to survive the Holocaust. He was born after the, after the war in 1948. And when he was nine years old, they came to Israel. And since then, all his grown-up life he dedicated to education and of the Holocaust and the dialogue between the Jews and the Polish. And he has a lot of students and colleagues that love him very much and respect his knowledge. He's a very, very impressive teacher. And he's done a lot for, for this subject to both countries.

NK: What I've read of your father and those who were taught by him and knew him, people speak very warmly about those experiences and his passion for what he taught. What do you think he might say to you to help you keep going at this time?

MD: I think -- first of all -- he will be glad to know that all his family survived this horrible attack. I think he would, he would told me to, to keep going for my child -- his grandchild. To try to make this world a better place, even though, even though there are people that lost all trace of humanity.

LBR: Matty Dancyg speaking to Nil about his father Alex last October. Alex Dancyg is one of the six hostages whose bodies were recovered overnight by the Israeli military.

[sombre instrumental]

Love Locks Saved

Guest: Richard Young

LBR: It's a well-known practice among lovers. Find an iconic bridge… or maybe a particularly lovely wrought iron gate… and affix a padlock to it, typically, after inscribing it with your initials -- and before throwing away the key. It's meant to symbolize the permanence of your love. But in the town of Bakewell in the British county of Derbyshire, some 40,000 love locks have been in danger of becoming all too temporary. The locks are attached to a footbridge. And in 2021, the county council announced that they were to be removed -- to allow for maintenance work. That's when a local love-lock lover started a campaign to save them. And -- at long last -- a local estate owner Emma Harrison has now agreed to rehome the locks. Here she is, speaking with the BBC.

SOUNDCLIP

EMMA HARRISON: It's about, it's just so much human emotion on that bridge. It cannot be melted down. Which is the council's plan is to melt that lock down. I mean, it's just, it can't. It means too much to too many people. And I just said, look, I'll look after them. If no one else will look after them, I'll do it.

LBR: Thornbridge Hall owner Emma Harrison, speaking with the BBC. Richard Young is the founder of the "Save the Love Locks at Bakewell" campaign group. We reached him on holiday in Varna, Bulgaria.

SB: Richard, when you called Emma, and she agreed to save the locks, how did you react?

RICHARD YOUNG: Yes. I was quite emotional. Even though I'm a grown man. I've gone through so much of talking with the council, discussing with the council, arguing with the council. And then, when she came forward and we'd gone through, down so many, so many avenues of, oh, we can't put them there, we can't have them here. And then, when she, when I rang up and she agreed, it was fantastic news. We found a home to save 40,000 memories.

SB: How long had you been looking for a home?

RY: We've been working with the council for the last three years -- often off and on. Because the bridge repair was going to be done in 2021, and then it was shelved and it came forward literally three or four weeks ago. So it was a bit of a rush job. But we've been trying. We've tried all the local, we really wanted to keep them in Bakewell because it is a tourist attraction. Bakewell is a place where people came to put the love, love locks on. But we just could not keep them in Bakewell. And that was it.

SB: When I heard you say 40,000 memories, I got a little bit of a shiver there. What are some of your favourite lock-placing stories? I know you know them all because they're on your Facebook group.

RY: [chuckling] Yeah, have I got a few? Have I got a minute or two? I'll relay you one, okay?

SB: Give us your favourite.

RY: This is the favourite. This is my heart-wrenching one. Are you ready for this one?

SB: I'm ready. I'm ready.

RY: Okay. A lady was with a partner. And as she said it's the only partner for her. She knew that was the only man for her in her life. They, they were together for about 18 years. And then, he was diagnosed, and they weren't married, married? At that point, it was just -- you know -- a partner, just a couple. During the latter part of the 18 years, he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer -- which, as we all know, is terminal. So they decided to get married. So they got married -- I think -- in September. So -- right -- so they had a reception straight after the wedding with a few family and friends there. She presented him with a lock with both their names on and the date. They honeymooned, honeymooned in London. The following day, they came back to Bakewell. They put the lock on the bridge, knowing next time they'd come, there'd only be one person. And three months from the date of the wedding, he passed. He passed. And that's just one lock. I've spoken to the lady. It means so much to her to have a place that she can remember that both of them came. Now I'm getting made up already, and I can't, I'm saying the story, okay?

SB: I understand. I'm hearing you, and I'm sharing, I'm sharing your feelings.

RY: Are you sharing the emotion? Are you sharing the emotion?

SB: I am, I am. And I have a question for you, Richard. Do you have a lock on the bridge?

RY: We don't, no. No, we don't.

SB: Okay. What's that about?

RY: Well, I never got 'round to putting one on. But secondly, I felt that, if I put one on, the council would say, are you only looking after your own lot, Richard? [SB chuckles] So I was a bit biased, right? So I decided, we decided not to put a lock on the bridge, okay? In fact, not many local people do put a lock on that bridge. It's done from all over the country. So, what I've promised my wife is that when they get moved to Thornbridge and they're all reinstated, we're going to go up there and we're going to hang our lock up there at Thornbridge as its final resting place.

SB: That's a nice way to mark your victory here, Richard.

RY: Oh yes!

SB: And I know that Emma is designing a whole new way to display the locks. How's it going to look?

RY: She's got it in her mind. She knows exactly what's happened. It'll look fantastic. And all we've got to do is get the 40, there is 40,000 there because we've actually counted -- made an estimated count of them. And all those 40,000, they weigh five tonnes, I'd like to add. So there's an awful lot of metal to move. You're going to be put back, they're going to be taken off in order in bags, and they get put back in order at Thornbridge. Because otherwise, you wouldn't know where to find your padlock.

SB: The county council has said that maintenance on the bridge has nothing to do with the weight of the locks, but we know that this is not the first place or the first time that locks have had to be cut off bridges. Which makes me wonder, when people attach a lock to a bridge like the one in your community, do you think they really expect it to stay forever?

RY: Well, that's the question. Yes, romance will tell you they'll stay forever. In practice, the locks have to be taken off at some point in time and managed. So there's got to be a degree of management of, of the locks. But there's no reason why those locks could not be managed and the bridge still be allowed to hang more locks onto for the next 12 years.

SB: Well, congratulations on your victory. Thanks for your time, Richard.

RY: Okay. And thank you so much for speaking to us.

LBR: Richard Young is the founder of the "Save the Love Locks at Bakewell" campaign group. He was in Varna, Bulgaria.

[funk]

Part 2: NS Cemetery Names, Thomas Hartle Obit

NS Cemetery Names

Guest: Yvonne Rafuse

LBR: The Hillside cemetery of the Lunenburg Municipal Home in Dayspring, Nova Scotia is easy to miss. For one thing, most of the burial sites there are marked with low-lying stones -- easily covered by grass and snow. For another, very few of them have anything on them apart from a number. It's a situation that didn't sit right with Yvonne Rafuse after she first visited the site. And it's one she and genealogist Betty Rhodenizer were determined to change. That site was one of Nova Scotia's so-called "poor farms" or "poor homes" -- as they were called at the time and are still sometimes referred to by locals. Now, Ms. Rafuse says the pair has come up with the names of many of the graves' occupants. And they're calling on the city to recognize them with individual plaques. We reached Ms. Rafuse in Pleasantville, Nova Scotia.

SB: Yvonne, who were the people who were buried here?

YVONNE RAFUSE: These institutions were to -- I think -- resolve a problem of the people that were living in Nova Scotia in poverty. Either living in poverty or some had mental illnesses and a variety of issues that people were down on their luck. Sometimes it was just elderly people. Back in those days, there were no nursing home -- for example -- or people who were, were ill and needed extra care from their families. And they perhaps didn't have families who could care for them. Some of the families retrieved their, their loved ones, but the people who were remained, who were not -- you know -- family could, either could not afford to come and retrieve their, their loved ones or they didn't have relatives that were known to, to the residents. They had to place their bodies somewhere. So -- at some point -- it signified where people were buried with numbers. And in the records -- and the handwritten records from, from the poor farm -- they did indicate with most of the individuals what the number of the gravesite was. So this was very easy for us to sort of match up names and numbers.

SB: And I understand that in some of these graves, there was not even one number per person because there may have been multiple people in the graves?

YR: We don't know whether it was an oversight when they were doing, keeping their records because these -- again -- these records were handwritten. But we did find in a couple of the graves that there was, there was more, more than one person indicated in that grave. But again -- you know -- that's from our research, we have no idea to know whether there was more, actually more than one person or multiple people buried together. We -- you know -- without using current technology to, to assess that, we really, we really don't have any more information than what is in those records.

SB: Can you take me back to how you first discovered this? It was 2020, I understand. What, what was your reaction?

YR: Well -- certainly -- it was, it was during the pandemic. So my husband and I took every opportunity to do walks, and we decided to walk through a lovely park that, that has been developed by the municipality on the property where the original poor farm was. And there's now a residential facility at the top of the hill, which, which, houses residents who need extra support. So I was familiar with the area, but I had never walked through the path. So we were walking one day, and we got to the top of the hill, and we came across what looked like a fenced-in area, and there was some signage. And I looked at the signage, and there was the information about the cemetery. So in we went, we opened the gate. We were very pleased to see that everything was very trim and well-kept, but I was just taken aback when I saw that there were no names on the stones that were placed on the ground. There were merely numbers. And that's when I contacted my dear friend -- Betty Rhodenizer -- who is a genealogy specialist, and, asked her if she would help me to do some research.

SB: And what were you able to learn about, about these people and about their stories in, in your four years -- I understand -- of research?

YR: Well, we say four years, but, you know, we weren't doing it for four years steady. We went to the, the Lunenburg County Genealogy Society to look through their records. And there were some wonderful records kept by, by the poor farm or the poor home, by the nurses who stood by these individuals when they were passing away. So there was wonderful information about the cause of death, who was with them when they passed. And often, it was just about that person, that they were a resident, how long they had been there and how they passed away. And in the cases where they were buried on the hill, it indicated a grave site number.

SB: So you are now -- with your friend -- calling on the city of Lunenburg to install plaques naming the people buried there. The mayor has acknowledged your concern, but she says it's up to the families to decide if they want their relatives to, to be named and to get a marker with a name. Why isn't that satisfactory in your view?

YR: What we were actually requesting of the municipality was for them to erect a monument, a monument similar to, say, soldiers memorials, or -- certainly in our area -- of fishermen's memorials, with a list of the names so that individuals that they were doing their, their -- you know -- research and trying to find their ancestors, they would be able to at least locate the name and relate that to this cemetery. We weren't asking for individual gravestones. However, the municipality was concerned about privacy issues for families. And, I believe their decision to have a, a grave marker program was based on that, that it would be up to the families to come forward. But as I said earlier, the problem with that probably is more so that a lot of the families may not even have known that their relative was there, or maybe they don't have relatives. So you may have some stones, some graves that, that maybe marked, and other graves that may not be. So it could be problematic for families.

SB: What, what kind of response have you had from the community as you've been going about this research and talking about it?

YR: We've kind of kept this a bit to ourselves over the time that we've worked on it. But as we've shared, as we've begun to share, people are very interested in our work. And -- in fact -- I've been contacted already by a couple of individuals who have either had experience with, with having a difficult time finding their loved one, or are very interested to know of their loved ones were, were actually buried there. So now that the word is out, [chuckling] I, I do expect there to be maybe more information that -- you know -- people will be seeking from us.

SB: So you're not done yet?

YR: We're not done yet. And we're not discouraged either.

SB: Well, it's been good to talk to you. Good luck with the rest of your work. Thank you.

YR: Well, thank you very much. Thanks for giving us time to talk about it. Appreciate it. Bye-bye.

SB: Bye-bye.

LBR: Yvonne Rafuse is advocating to mark the graves of the Hillside cemetery with names, instead of numbers. She was in Pleasantville, Nova Scotia.

[wistful instrumental]

Ontario Safe Consumption Sites

LBR: It's a move that will affect almost half of Ontario's safe consumption sites. Today, Health Minister Sylvia Jones announced a ban on safe consumption sites within 200 metres of schools and child-care centres. Per the new rules, 10 sites in the province must transition into treatment hubs that do not offer safe consumption services. If they don't, they'll face closure. The minister committed more than 370 million dollars to the new Homelessness and Addiction Recovery Treatment hubs -- or HART hubs. But her announcement drew sharp criticism from harm-reduction advocates in the province. Here's Minister Jones taking questions from reporters this afternoon.

SOUNDCLIP

SYLVIA JONES: We have a system that has not worked. We are seeing more issues in our municipalities, in our communities. I have heard from parents, community leaders, I've heard from mayors. I've heard from business leaders saying it is getting worse, not better. So what we are doing has not solved the problem. And this opportunity for 19 HART hubs across Ontario to actually bring all of those experts together in those communities and have that service into treatment, into recovery, is where we are focussed.

KATIE GRIFFIN: Hi, Minister. Katie Griffin from CTV news. Are you open to reopening or funding supervised consumption sites in different spaces away from schools, or is this just an effort to reduce the number of sites and reallocate funding?

SJ: We are not going to open any additional CTS sites. What we are offering is an opportunity for municipal and community organizations to build an application that is very much based on the needs and the resources that are available in those communities.

KG: You mentioned Somerset West -- that location -- in your speech. You mentioned the violence. They say they were not consulted when it comes to this. What was the issue with that specific site? And what support are you going to offer these locations if they do choose to attempt to transition into these new hubs?

SJ: So the crime stats speak for themselves. What are we offering? A transition. We're offering a pathway to treatment. And instead of -- frankly -- simply giving individuals a phone number, we're going to actually give them the services in these HART hubs. Look, I know that there are incredible organizations across Ontario working in our communities and in our neighbourhoods doing excellent work. If we bring all of those resources together, then I believe you will see that comprehensive, patient-focused approach that is so important to this issue.

REPORTER: And considering, the thousands of overdoses at these CTS sites that have been intervened on and reversed, I'm wondering if you've done any estimates as to how many people will die as a result of this decision?

SJ: Jack, people are not going to die. They're going to get access to service. You know, I do not call watching someone inject an illicit drug to be health care in the province of Ontario. We need to do better, and we can do better.

LBR: Ontario health minister Sylvia Jones speaking to reporters today after announcing new restrictions on safe consumption sites in Ontario.

[ambient electronic]

Thomas Hartle Obit

Guest: Spencer Hawkswell

CH: He was the first Canadian to legally use magic mushrooms in therapy. And Thomas Hartle spent the last few years of his life advocating for all Canadians to have that right. Mr. Hartle died this month of colon cancer. He was 56 years old. In 2020, he was granted a special exemption from Health Canada to use psilocybin to help manage the anxiety associated with his terminal diagnosis. And he eventually became the lead plaintiff in an ongoing legal fight, arguing that access to the treatment should be protected under the Charter of Rights of Freedoms. Spencer Hawkswell was a friend of Thomas Hartle's. He's also the president of TheraPsil, a non-profit advocacy group for the therapeutic use of psychedelics. We reached him in Vancouver.

SB: Spencer, I am sorry for your loss.

SPENCER HAWKSWELL: Thank you very much. It's, it's a loss for, for a lot of people. His family. And -- I think -- this country.

SB: Well, people may know about Thomas from, from news stories and interviews that he gave. For you, you knew him as a human being and a friend. What can you tell me about what he was like as a person?

SH: Thomas had the biggest heart. Really, he was quite selfless for -- you know -- his family, for other people. And I think that was very well reflected in the amazing advocacy work that he did around psilocybin.

SB: Well, what did he tell you about, about how psilocybin helped him as he, as he struggled with his diagnosis?

SH: Well -- for Thomas -- he said this beautiful thing I'll never forget. And it may not make sense to many listeners. But in the psychedelic trip, he said that the music was kind of overwhelming him, and he could find spaces between the notes. And I think for him, that meant kind of what he reflected upon was that there were feelings between -- you know -- feelings of sadness and hopelessness and depression and anxiety where he could -- you know -- find solace and move between -- just like he was in this psychedelic trip with mushrooms -- move between the notes. He could move between -- you know -- feelings of anxiety and get back to happiness and enjoying his life with his family. I think that was really big for him. And that certainly stuck with me, is -- you know -- what he found in mushrooms, a way to properly enjoy life even in the face of -- you know -- a terminal diagnosis.

SB: Now, he could have ignored the law -- as, as many people -- do and used mushrooms. What made him want to take this fight to the courts, especially given what he was dealing with personally?

SH: Like I said, he, he really had a big heart. And this example of him not just -- you know -- going underground and doing it illegally, I really think embodied that. When Thomas was looking to get access to psilocybin, he was certainly the first Canadian who was in this fight. But he wasn't alone. There were others that have been inspired from his story. But others that didn't quite want to be so public about it. And -- you know -- being diagnosed with cancer, it doesn't exactly make a lot of people free to go out and find access to mushrooms underground. So, I think Thomas really found a sense of duty in not only advocating for himself but advocating for other people. And I think he realized that if he couldn't get this exemption on compassionate grounds, that perhaps other people wouldn't be able to get it. So I really think that it was a selfless act -- you know -- this absolute insistence on doing it legally and making sure that he got an exemption. Not just for himself, but so that others would get it. And -- ultimately -- that's exactly what happened in 2022.

SB: He appeared here on As It Happens. He was interviewed about his legal fight to have psilocybin therapy recognized as a right under the Canadian Charter. Let's listen to a little of what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

THOMAS HARTLE: I am an optimist. And I believe that there isn't really any reason for us to not be able to win this case. I feel confident that this will happen within my lifetime, in spite of having a terminal diagnosis. And for the sake of Canadians, I, I hope that my optimism is infectious.

SB: What's it like for you to hear that now?

SH: I mean, it puts a smile on my face. And, although -- you know -- it's unfortunate that he's passed, I think his optimism certainly still infects me and other people. You can just hear it in his voice, and it kind of echoes. You know, there's a gentleman with a terminal diagnosis who remained optimistic. If that isn't infectious, I don't know what it is. And I think that's why he was so inspiring. And -- you know -- although we, that Thomas may have passed, his optimism, and I think his, his legacy certainly lives on. And that certainly makes me feel optimistic, too, you know? To think that even though you may pass away, that your legacy lives on.

SB: Health Canada has always said that there have been too few clinical trials to know with any certainty whether these therapies are safe and effective. Did he or you consider at all prioritizing a push for that kind of research, as opposed to the legal challenge?

SH: I think it's certainly important. And at no point did we ever disagree that -- you know -- clinical research is is essentially necessary. But -- you know -- clinical research isn't the way that -- you know -- the only way that we get access to things. If we relied only on clinical research, we'd never be moving anywhere. People wouldn't have a lot of access to really any drugs. I mean, even COVID was a great example of when it's sometimes necessary to push that clinical research to the wayside -- you know -- on compassionate grounds and when emergency access is needed. So similar to the fact that -- you know -- we have access to medical assistance and dying and abortion, and cannabis in this country. You know, access to those things were all based on compassion. On our Charter rights. And so, I think -- you know -- as far as Thomas and I were concerned, it was always about following those same, you know, values, those same principles, the same Charter arguments for why Thomas and others should have access to psilocybin.

SB: And how much do you think Thomas Hartle was able to change the landscape in this country on this issue?

SH: I mean, Thomas was the catalyst, right? Psilocybin was -- you know -- prohibited in Canada for over 40 years. And there was no exemptions being granted until Thomas came around. So, his, his work, his advocacy, his role in the charter challenge changed everything and will continue to be the catalyst for change.

SB: Well -- Spencer -- once again, I am sorry for the loss of your, of your friend. And thank you for your time.

SH: Wonderful. Thank you so much for covering this. It's, it's really important.

CH: Spencer Hawkswell is the president of TheraPsil, a non-profit advocacy group for the therapeutic use of psychedelics. He was in Vancouver.

[ambient instrumental]

Ian Tyson Auction

LBR: When Canadian music legend Ian Tyson died in 2022, he left behind a massive catalogue of songs and an impressive portfolio of awards and commendations. But it turns out he also left behind a whole lot more. And now, his estate is selling just a few of the many items that made up the country musician's decidedly country collection -- of cowboy boots, concert memorabilia, vintage books, Charlie Russell paintings, and yes… Navajo rugs. Here's Hall's Auction Services owner, Kevin King.

SOUNDCLIP

KEVIN KING: The neckerchiefs obviously are a pretty distinct item. There, there's artwork. The Navajo rugs -- I think -- are going to attract a lot of attention from people. There's Southwest pottery, there's, you know, bits and bridles, there's cowboy hats, cowboy boots, you name it. There's all sorts of things, you know, that a collector can acquire.

LOREN MCGINNIS: Yeah, well, I was looking at the boots, too. And you wouldn't happen to know off the top of your head what size they are, do you?

KK: No, I'm sorry, I don't. You know, and they, they're a little stretched out as well.

LM: Right.

KK: These aren't city-walking cowboy boots.

LM: Well, how come they're being sold now? Do you know?

KK: Well, Ian, he, he died several years back now. And, and I guess, like, like all of us, we're going to have to deal with, with that in our families. The family is keeping a lot of the gold records and the couple of guitars and are going to be making donations into various museums, but we all have this stuff in our lives. So, so they just wanted to give back to the fans.

LM: Umm-hmm. What was it like just kind of going out to the ranch and encountering Ian Tyson's stuff?

KK: You know, I think there were a couple sides to the man. There was obviously the performer. But going out to the ranch, it wasn't working southern Alberta ranch.

LM: Yeah.

KK: You know, he raised cutting horses out there. And there wasn't a whole lot of the entertainment side of the man on display. It was kind of a no nonsense, a no nonsense place.

LM: Have you had a look at what's the hottest item so far?

KK: Well, I was having a look here this morning. And as of right now, it, it's some artwork, actually. Then -- probably -- followed by the Navajo rugs.

LM: Okay. All right. Well, I'm going to go have a poke at that neckerchief and see, see [chuckling] if I could -- you know -- swing it on payday.

KK: Yeah. So, so there are some things that'll be quite expensive, but then there are others that are going to be bought quite modestly as well. So there should be something for everyone.

LBR: Calgary auctioneer Kevin King, speaking with CBC's Loren McGinnis on the Calgary Eyeopener.

The AIH Transcript For August 20, 2024

Social Sharing