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The AIH Transcript for May 30, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I’m Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: Oil ways on his mind. The Chief of Cheam First Nation in B.C. couldn't be happier that the feds stepped in to buy the Trans Mountain Expansion pipeline, and he's considering buying in himself.

JD: Little girl lost. Today, a two-year-old Iraqi Kurd shot dead by Belgian police was buried, and the family's lawyer tells us the investigation into the fatal shooting was botched from the start.

CO: The revolution against the revolutionary. In Nicaragua, furious protests against President Daniel Ortega continue; a journalist tells us why she and other young people want the former Sandinista leader to go.

JD: Split second thoughts. In parts of China, seeking a divorce won't just test you emotionally — it will test you in the form of an actual test, complete with an essay question.

CO: Making a killing. Yesterday, we heard a Russian journalist had been murdered, but today, he showed up alive at a news conference, proving reports of his death had been greatly, and purposely, exaggerated.

JD: And...siren song. After visiting an Alaskan town whose only ambulance had been vandalized, our guest couldn't stop thinking about it -- so he bought a replacement himself, and drove it all the way up from Wisconsin.

JD: “As It Happens”, the Wednesday edition. Radio that knows they waited forever for new medical gear, but now they've entered the home stretcher.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Trans Mountain Pipeline: pro-First Nation, not dead journalist, new ambulance

Trans Mountain Pipeline: pro-First Nation

Guest: Ernie Crey

JD: The federal government has swooped in to save Trans Mountain Expansion pipeline. But its future is still anything but safe. Activists and Indigenous communities in B.C. are promising unprecedented protests to stop the pipeline from being built. And whether it can be built at all is still a decision in the hands of the Federal Court. But when Ernie Crey heard the news from Ottawa yesterday, he was relieved. The Chief of Cheam First Nation, just east of Chilliwack, B.C., doesn't just support the pipeline — he wants a piece of it. We reached Chief Ernie Crey in Cheam First Nation.

CO: Chief Crey, why are you interested in buying a stake in this pipeline?

ERNIE CREY: It was something that was held out as a possibility, and the council here, along with me, discussed that possibility. And if the door open to that opportunity would we be interested? And we are, but it depends on the particulars.

CO: What are you hoping — what is your First Nation, Cheam, — hoping to get out of being part of this pipeline having signed a benefits agreement with Kinder Morgan?

EC: Well, I thought a few years back that actually the pipeline should have been built by a consortium of First Nations. If we had been quicker and the option had been available to us that we should be the ones to build it, but that wasn't to be. And obviously, Kinder Morgan was on the scene. But Kinder Morgan will be exiting stage right now. We're looking at this opportunity that was hinted at or a referenced in yesterday's announcement that this door may open to us. And so we seriously consider it.

CO: The impression that people have is that this overwhelmingly First Nations in British Columbia in particular are opposed to the pipeline. We spoke with Rueben George last night from the Tsleil-Waututh Nation. he says there is no way that they will allow this pipeline to be built. So what kinds of conversations do you have with other First Nations?

EC: I respect the position taken by the Tsleil-Waututh Nation. But in their case, you see the respect comes from the stance they've taken, and also they're pursuing their differences with the government of Canada in the courts. But there are a lot of players on the scene from hither and yon that don't live along the pipeline route and can't lay any claim to the Aboriginal title or interests along the Kinder Morgan route who are making all sorts of statements taking a stance in opposition to the pipeline, which I understand. They have really no skin in the game. But when it comes to Cheam, it's right in our traditional territory. So we're the folks that are going to be impacted by this pipeline. It's going to be constructed. And, of course, we're going to be keenly interested in the construction of this pipeline that it be constructed to the utmost highest standards. And the government is going to have to discuss with us our interests in our traditional territories where that pipe is going through.

CO: Because you accept data says that this pipeline is going to be built — there's no way around that. That's what we're hearing from Bill Morneau and from Justin Trudeau.

EC: Well yes, and what I've said is promise made, promise kept. We were happy at that announcement because we're so heavily involved in a number of ways. One is job training and jobs. And we've also partnered with 13 companies in joint ventures.

CO: And other First Nations some of them don't have skin in the game, lots of them do. Is there no sense that you should be in solidarity with them? That they haven't got what they want out of this, and that you should hold back hold back and stand with them?

EC: The attitude that some of them have taken is they don't want the pipeline at all under any circumstances. So what does that leave to discuss? And if this community is pursuing the construction of this pipeline for the reasons we have within our traditional territory, I have an obligation, and my council has an obligation to pursue that. I do respect the communities that are in in the courts because there are legal matters that they want answers to and fair enough. But in the meantime, this community is pursuing its arrangements with the government of Canada for our reasons.

CO: It's not just First Nations, there is a large environmental movement in British Columbia principally and across Canada who are opposed to this pipeline. You have said that you believe that they are what you say “red washing” their movement.

EC: Yeah.

CO: What do you mean by that?

EC: What they've decided to do is approach First Nations with smiles and ingratiating ways to slip their agenda under an Aboriginal flag. And that way enjoys what they would regard as protection for things if they were trying to pursue on their own just would not happen.

CO: What do you think about that? How do you feel about that?

EC: Well, I’ve said in the past that First Nations need to be aware of these groups because, in the recent past, these organizations have literally trashed First Nations enterprises in this country like the commercial trapping in the northern parts of Canada. And on the east coast of Canada, they worked hard with the likes of Paul McCartney and Brigitte Bardot to kill the commercial seal hunt. The people that were just left to suffer the consequences of their actions where the Indigenous people, and so I've been cautioning my colleagues in British Columbia just be aware of who you're counting as a friend because those folks have their own agenda, and they don't necessarily match up with ours.

CO: The 4.5 billion dollars is the purchase, some billions more probably to build it. A number of people in first nations communities are pointing out that they don't have water, they don't have infrastructure, the funding for schools is smaller than it is for non-Indigenous communities. That 4.5 billion dollars you know you could put a pretty good water pipeline to some of these communities, and give them what they haven't had for the entire duration of their time there. So what do you say to them who say that this money could have been better spent in First Nations communities?

EC: You know there's substance to that observation. But for this community, we're determined that we're going to stand on our own feet. That we're going to do things in an entrepreneurial fashion so that we can address the pressing needs in our community. And the question of First Nations communities needing water I understand the Federal Government's pursuing that. Should it be a greater priority? For sure, but I don't think you can tie the two together. Drop one for the other. I think government has certain responsibilities here to First Nations at law, and they should do that.

CO: Chief Crey, we will be following this very closely. And I appreciate speaking with you today. Thank you.

EC: OK. Well, you're most welcome.

CO: Bye bye.

EC: Bye.

JD: Ernie Crey is Chief of Cheam First Nation in British Columbia. That is where we reached him. We have more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Percussive]

Not dead journalist

Guest: Ondrej Soukup

JD: The obits were written, the vigils were planned, the tributes tweeted. Yesterday, the Russian journalist and Kremlin critic, Arkady Babchenko was shot and killed while leaving his apartment in Kiev. A graphic photograph released by authorities showed Mr. Babchenko face down in a pool of blood, with three apparent gunshots in his back. Then, at a press conference this morning in Kiev, a surprise guest walked to the microphones to address the journalist's death: the dead man himself, Arkady Babchenko.

SOUNDCLIP

ARKADY BABCHENKO: [Speaking: Russian]

JD: That was the supposedly dead Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko — very much alive, at a news conference this morning. He began, not surprisingly, by apologizing to his wife for faking his death. And then, Ukrainian authorities explained that they had staged his murder as a part of an elaborate sting operation to catch people who were actually planning to kill him. Ondrej Soukup is a journalist and friend of Arkady Babchenko. We reached Mr. Soukup in Prague.

CO: Ondrej, has it fully sunken for you that your friend is actually alive?

ONDREJ SOUKUP: Yeah, it was just amazing feeling because I couldn't dream that this very sad news proved to be false, you know? So it was just overwhelming feeling that what we feared and actually believed is true is not true.

CO: So I imagine you've been going through a period of grieving and mourning since you heard the news that Arkady Babchenko had been assassinated? You believed your friend was gone?

OS: Yeah, definitely, you know? Because he wouldn't be the first actually because I used to be a Moscow correspondent also, and I’ve known lots of Russian journalists, some of them were killed or murdered in the last, let's say, decade. So I’m sort of used to this kind of news that the killing is part of the risk to profession being journalist.

CO: Can you describe this press conference that took place today — this remarkable event. Because it was a press conference about the murder of Arkady Babchenko, that’s what people thought. What happened?

OS: It started with the head of secret services bureau, and he suddenly said well okay, we have to a little bit apologize, but this was a successful operation, and I would like to congratulate Arkady Babchenko for his part in this operation. And suddenly, Arkady was there on stage, you know? And all the social networks started to be overwhelmed. All the screaming and he’s alive — so that kind of emotion.

CO: Did anybody know that this was a fake death? It seems even his wife was left out of the loop. He began by apologizing to his wife for faking his death.

OS: Yeah, that's incredible. And I think that for the sake of his marriage, I'm hoping that it's not really true. He actually said that he’s apologized for everything that she had to come through in the last two days. So maybe she knew, but she couldn't say anything to anyone.

CO: We need to understand why this happened because he didn't fake his death for some drama or some theater. He did this, as we've learned, to assist Ukrainian authorities in trying to find someone who was who was trying to kill him. Tell us what you know about why this ruse was staged.

OS: We actually have only one source of information, which is Ukrainian secret service. And what they are saying that they learned approximately two months ago that someone is looking for a contract killer. That he's offering forty thousand dollars, and approximately two months ago, they approached Arkady, and he was a part of this operation.

CO: And what role did your friend play in this?

OS: Actually, he said that day almost on a daily basis cooperated. Of course, he took part in this staging of his murder and disappearing for 24 hours.

CO: And not just disappearing after this announcement of his assassination. There were new stories about his death. Media reports that he is face down in a pool of blood with bullet holes. He'd just been going out to buy some bread, and was shot near his apartment. And all of this was reported in great detail. So what do you think they're attempting to do? Do you know what that was supposed to accomplish as far as catching this wannabe assassin?

OS: They needed approval from the organizer that he is paying money for this murder. And actually, after that, he was arrested. So they are just looking for the documentation actually.

CO: What we're hearing from the Kremlin. They are saying well, there you go. Journalists make things up, fake news, when they accuse us of killing somebody maybe it's not true. You have international agencies who were condemning Russia for being involved in this alleging that. All kinds of major players were responding. Is this a rather dangerous thing to do?

OS: It's definitely double-edged. And I think that will depend on what they really found out. I mean if they will have approved of direct Russian involvement. So maybe it's justified. If it is just to get some you know low-rank contract killer, it will have more damage than good.

CO: What are you going to say to your friend Arkady when you see him?

OS: I will hug him, and I will say Okay, brother, you owe me a couple of beers for that feeling that we had for almost 24 hours. I think that he will buy some beer.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. Ondrej, thank you.

OS: Thank you.

JD: Ondrej Soukup is a friend of Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko. We reached Mr. Soukup in Prague. We have more on this story on our website.

[Music: Industrial]

New ambulance

Guest: Jon Dobbs

JD: In southeast Alaska, surrounded by mountains, there's a small community by the name of McCarthy. Only a handful of people live there year round. And last year, a man named Jon Dobbs, who lives in Wisconsin, paid it a visit. And that's when he learned that McCarthy's one and only ambulance had been vandalized, and no longer worked. The manager of the volunteer EMS service said they just didn't have the money to get it fixed. So Mr. Dobbs decided he wanted to help. And last week, he returned to McCarthy — with a new ambulance. Now, he is heading back to Wisconsin on a motorcycle trip. We reached him in Saskatoon.

CO: Jon, what was the reaction in McCarthy, Alaska when he arrived with his ambulance?

JON DOBBS: It was a wonderful reaction. People were happy or excited. I think there was a little bit of disbelief.

CO: Did they know you were coming with this vehicle?

JD: They did. McCarthy is a small town, and I think everybody certainly knew, which was a little fun for us is as we're driving into McCarthy, cars were honking and flashing their lights, and they saw the ambulance. We stopped for fuel they came out to speak with us about it. And that was probably 60 to 70 miles from McCarthy.

CO: Can you tell us how you came to buy a new ambulance for a town where you have really no connections?

JD: Yeah, the connection I have with McCarthy is that you know quite frankly I was simply a tourist there. I had a cocktail at the saloon, we left the saloon, and we saw a flyer. And what the flyer showed was that McCarthy’s current ambulance at the time was vandalized. And they were simply looking for information about who vandalized their ambulance. When my girlfriend Jackie and I saw that, it was quite heartbreaking actually. And I always say you know this was my idea and this is a great idea, but I think the truth is it was actually Jackie who came up with the idea. And she said Jon, why don't you go you know buy this town an ambulance. And I thought that was a great idea.

CO: What did the picture show?

JD: It was a photocopy of a picture that showed the ambulance. The centre console was removed, and there was like a spaghetti nest of wires. So the vandal essentially just tore out the wiring system of the little ambulance.

CO: A lot of people would be moved and say OK, that’s too bad for them. Not my problem though; it's not my town. Not many people would say OK, I think what we should do is go home, get an ambulance for them, and drive it all back up to Alaska.

JD: Well, that's what we did. And they think that perhaps I like to think that a lot of people would do that. We have the means to do it. And I had the opportunity. I was an EMT for 20 years in my small town department. And I went back to Boulder Junction, Wisconsin — another lovely town — I contacted the EMS director, and I said I want a buy our old ambulance. And she said, unfortunately, it's just sold. And again it's kind of heartbreaking a second time. Time went by, and I don't know if I even forgot about the project or kind of filed it away, our ambulance director called me and said Jon, are you still looking for an ambulance? And I said absolutely. And she said the next town over — which is the Town of Plum Lake— has an ambulance for sale. The town was very happy with what I was going to do with their ambulance, and I wasn't quite sure that this was the ambulance for McCarthy. So we spent a lot of time looking it over and making sure that everything worked, it would pass inspection, it would make the trip to Alaska, and I'm pleased to say it's a wonderful ambulance.

CO: OK, so that was your first step was to actually secure an ambulance, and then you had to get it from Wisconsin to Alaska.

JD: Yeah, that was the fun part. It’s an absolutely beautiful drive. We drove it from Wisconsin to Bellingham, Washington. We wanted to keep as many miles or kilometers off this ambulance as we possibly could. So what we did is we put it on the ferry, we ferried up to Haines, which took three days, and then from Haines we continued the drive to McCarthy, which took in another two days. So the whole trip to just over a week.

CO: I understand that the town itself had been before they had their ambulance vandalized, they had been beefing up their EMS service, getting some training, going from just being a bunch of volunteers or neighbours calling each other to actually having a good kind of volunteer corps, and then they got discouraged when somebody trashed their vehicles. So all of this would be quite extraordinary for them to see you arrive in town with that ambulance?

JD: Yeah, the reception was very nice. The second day they had a potluck lunch for us, and that was wonderful; couldn't ask for anything more. In my opinion, McCarthy's already paid us back.

CO: Can I ask how much out of pocket you are for the whole thing?

JD: The ambulance itself I purchased for the town in U.S. dollars was eight thousand. With the repairs, the graphics, the travel it was probably a little over twelve thousand.

CO: Now you're on your way back. We've reached you in Saskatoon. How are you traveling back to Wisconsin?

JD: On motorcycle. A good friend of mine and mechanic — his name is Randy — took the journey with me to McCarthy. We put both of our motorcycles in the back of the ambulance.

CO: How are you finding Saskatoon?

JD: The weather could be a little bit better. But we’ve been ahead of the rain, and so far it's OK.

CO: Well, Jon, happy travels back to Wisconsin. And it's been really good to speak with you. Thank you.

JD: Thank you. It's my honour.

CO: Bye.

JD: Bye.

JD: That was Jon Dobbs of Wisconsin, who bought an ambulance for the community of McCarthy, Alaska. We reached him in Saskatoon. And if you would like to see some photographs of McCarthy’s new ambulance, visit our website.

[Music: World music]

Divorce quiz

JD: Times have changed since then, of course. For one thing, nowadays, we have a lot more quizzes, don’t we? "Which 'Sex and the City' Character Are You?". Or "Tell Us Your Favourite Kombucha Flavour and We'll Tell You Which Famous Chris You're Most Like". Well, listen: obviously, most of these quizzes are a total waste of time. I mean, yes, I am most like Chris Pratt, but there's no way I'm a Charlotte. But in at least two provinces in China, they're putting a lot of stock in one quiz — a divorce quiz. A recent rise in marital breakups apparently has the government concerned about social instability. So, in those provinces, they've introduced a kind of exam for couples heading for Splitsville. According to the New York Times, sample questions include: "When is your anniversary?" and "Have you fulfilled your obligation to your family?" The Yangtse Late News reports that other questions revolve around conflicts in the relationship, your happiest memories, and your general views on marriage. The idea is to prevent impulsive divorces. Or, as the director of a local marriage registration office says — according to this translation program — quote, "The couple should answer questions on the test of marriage and family test. They should calm down." Unquote. The exam is graded out of 100. If both spouses score 60 or higher, they will be encouraged to attempt to save the marriage, which could work! Or both spouses will resent each other even more deeply for making each other answer essay questions, as adults. Because no one said that one romantic decision would eventually lead to a multiple-choice.

Part two: Kurdish migrant shooting, Nicaragua unrest

Kurdish migrant shooting

Guest: Olivier Stein

JD: Today, a family from Iraqi Kurdistan is holding a funeral. The deceased is their two-year-old daughter Mawda, who was killed by Belgian police. Two weeks ago, Mawda was shot in the face, while sitting on her mother's lap in a van carrying migrants through Belgium. Belgian police initially denied any responsibility. But they have since admitted that one of their officers did indeed fire the shot that killed the little girl. This week, Iraq's foreign ministry called for a formal investigation into Mawda’s death. Olivier Stein is a lawyer representing Mawda's parents. We reached him in Brussels.

CO: Mr. Stein, how are the mother and father of Mawda coping right now? Do you know?

OLIVIER STEIN: Yes, I know it's very, very, difficult for them. The mother is crying all the time, and I mean it's a very big shock for the whole family. The little boy is also under shock. And we have psychologists taking care of him because it's obvious that he has been traumatized. But today was the funeral, and there were lots of people coming. So I think it was a great help for the family.

CO: What has a mom and dad told you about how their little girl came to be shot in the head.

OS: So basically they were trying to reach United Kingdom. They came from France with smugglers that brought 25 to 30 people in the rear of a van. And they were driving on the highway when a police car started chasing the van. The chase lasted for more than one hour. So at the end, the police say that it was like 15 cars chasing that van. At some point, a police car went directly close to the van. And at that point, another family showed their child to let the police know that there were children inside. And at that moment, the police slowed down. But later on, the chase was still going on. And later on, another police car when the two sides of the van, and there were also two other police cars behind the van. And at some point, the policeman says he was trying to shoot the wheel. The parents of Mawda were thinking that he was aiming at the driver, so it's not clear. So at some point, he decided to shoot. And the mother was just behind the driver with Mawda in her hands. And she felt blood at that point. So we know that there was only one bullet, and it came from a policeman. And it’s that bullet that killed Mawda.

CO: From what you understand, the police knew that the van was carrying migrants, that there were children inside, they were chasing at high speed, they were on either side of the van that was going at top speed when they opened fire and shot into the van, is that right?

OS: Yes, from the information that we have, it looks that way yes. And also when the van was stopped, the mother and the father were immediately arrested. Even though Mawda was still alive, she was alone in the ambulance. And it took hours before the father, and the mother knew that Mawda was dead. Later on, they have released everybody that was in the van — including the smugglers. We believe that it's a way to make sure that we don't have enough witnesses. Also, there is this so-called independent committee supposed to take care of a situation in which a policeman is involved. And they we're opening a case on the morning, and they closed it at the end of the afternoon saying that they didn't see anything to say about what the police had done. We had also the prosecutor giving us three different versions of what happened.

CO: What are the questions you have at this point about what happened to this little girl?

OS: The main questions at last is why did the policeman shoot at that point, and what was he aiming for? In February, in Belgium, there was a similar case in which the police were chasing a van, and they knew there were migrants inside with children. And at some point, they decided OK, we shouldn't take that much risk. And so they just stopped and let the van Go. In this situation, some policemen are saying that there is so much pressure to arrest migrants that they spend lots of time and lots of energy trying to arrest those kind of vans.

CO: There is a discussion — a heated debate in your country, in Belgium — about what should happen with this family; this mom and dad and their child who is still alive, as to whether they should be allowed to stay even beyond the police investigation. Why has this become such a heated debate in Belgium?

OS: We have the extreme right in power. In the government, we have the French speaking right and the Flemish extreme right. And Flemish extreme right they're trying to make this a debate about borders. And they just have said that it was the family's fault because they were taking so much risk trying to cross the border that it happened to them. So we do not want to go in that debate. We want to have more calm debate about how things are dealt with in Belgium. Not only for foreigners, but how is it possible that you cannot have a proper investigation about what the police is doing? That is the question they are trying to avoid by focusing on the question of the legality of the stay of the family. But in the hand I think that with the fact that Mawda is buried here, the fact that we will have a very long trial that will take years in Belgium, and the family must be there. I'm almost sure that they will accept at some point to give them not certainly a permanent stay, but they will give them a legal stay at some point I hope. If it's not the case, it will be a proof that the prime minister is only a prime minister of the extreme right, and that he doesn't himself have anything to say about the situation of the country.

CO: Mr. Sein, it's just a horrible and tragic story. I appreciate you speaking with us tonight. Thank you.

OS: Thank you.

JD: Olivier Stein is a lawyer for the family of Mawda, a two-year-old Iraqi Kurd killed by Belgian police. We have more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Hamilton cop update

JD: Hamilton Police Detective-Constable Craig Ruthowsky has been sentenced to hard time. Not four years, as his defence lawyer suggested. Not ten years, as proposed by the Crown. This week, Ontario Superior Court Justice Robert Clark handed down a sentence of twelve-and-a-half years — plus a two-hundred-and-fifty-thousand dollar fine. Last week, we told you about the crooked Hamilton cop convicted of bribery, obstruction of justice, breach of trust, and cocaine trafficking. At the time, the judge was already implying that he planned to throw the book at D.C. Ruthowsky. And throw the book he did, along with some choice words. Quote, "Craig Ruthowsky is, at base, a man of profoundly flawed character. He chose to break the law because it was lucrative to do so. He was arrogant enough to think he could do so with impunity." Unquote. Until today, D.C. Ruthowsky was suspended from the Hamilton Police Service with pay. Now, he has been taken off the payroll, and the Hamilton Police have begun the process of having him fired. D.C. Ruthowsky has appealed his conviction.

[Music: Ambient]

Sanders school shootings

JD: At today's White House press briefing, a question from the back had Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders uncharacteristically emotional — about an issue that's been in the headlines a lot lately.

SOUNDCLIP

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS: The young colleague in the back.

YOUNG CHILD: At my school, we recently had a lockdown drill. On this that affects my other students mental health is to worry about the fact that we or our friends could get shot at school. Specifically, can you tell me what the administration has done or will do to prevent these senseless tragedies?

SHS: I think that as a kid, and certainly as a parent, there is nothing that could be more terrifying for a kid to go to school and not feel safe. So I'm sorry that you feel that way. This administration takes it seriously, and that these school safety commission that the president convened is meeting this week again an official meeting to discuss the best ways forward, and how we can do every single thing within our power to protect kids in our schools. And to make them feel safe, and make their parents feel good about drop off. Amen.

JD: That was White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, responding — with atypical authenticity — to a question from a young reporter attending today's press briefing. Critics have been quick to point out that despite the emotion in Ms. Sanders' voice, the Trump Administration has done little to address the fact that there have been nearly two dozen schools shootings in the US so far in 2018 — that’s according to a CNN analysis.

[Music: Soft acoustic guitar]

Nicaragua unrest

Guest: Cinthia Membreno

JD: Once, he was hailed as a revolutionary hero. In the 1980s, Daniel Ortega led the Sandinistas to defeat the dictatorship in Nicaragua, and fight back against the US-backed Contra rebels. Now, the former guerrilla leader is being accused of having the blood of peaceful protesters on his hands. Amnesty International reports that the government is employing a shoot-to-kill strategy, in a brutal crackdown on student-led protesters who have been filling the streets for weeks now. According to an Amnesty investigation, 81 people have been killed in the unrest — more than 800 have been injured. Cinthia Membreno is a journalist based in Nicaragua who's been participating in some of the protests over the past month. We reached her in Managua.

CO: Cinthia, can you describe what's happening on the streets on the university campuses during these rallies?

CINTHIA MEMBRENO: Well, first of all, the university students have occupied their campuses to demand a more democratic government. And what we've seen is that the police and paramilitary groups that are sympathetic to the government are attacking these young people who don't have guns to try to make them leave these campuses. And also, in late April, we saw how these police groups were also attacking people who were trying to protest against the Social Security reform that Daniel Ortega wanted to make in the country. And so people have died, and people have been wounded, or people have disappeared. And the majority of these people are young Nicaraguans, who demand a change in the country.

CO: When you talk about the people killed, Amnesty International says that at least 80 people have been killed — maybe 800 or 900 injured, and then there are those who have been disappeared. So these are very large numbers. How are people in general reacting to the way that Daniel Ortega's government has responded to protests?

CM: People are very infuriated because not only are we seeing that young Nicaraguans are dying in the hands of the authorities who are supposed to you know protect us. But also that the government thinks that we’re the enemy, so it is a crisis that has been poorly handled, and that has made the government look very bad among everybody — including people who you know voted for them, and who defended them not long ago.

CO: Now I want to ask you your own personal story because I know that you are a child of the revolution. Your family — like many, many people in Nicaragua — believed in the Sandinista revolution. That you voted for Daniel Ortega when you were old enough to vote. So how come you're out in the streets? Why have you and others turned against Daniel Ortega?

CM: Well yes, I did vote for Daniel Ortega back in 2006 because I grew up hearing the heroic stories that my parents told me about you know the revolution and the movement. But during these years, I have seen that Daniel Ortega wants to remain in power. I just realized you know if a person is corrupt, if a person wants to stay in power forever, if a person like Daniel Ortega is trying to make businesses that benefit only him and his family then I don't want a president who is accumulating so much power and never wants to leave us because that's not the meaning of democracy. And also, I'm infuriated by the fact that the authorities who are supposed to protect us are killing young people like me who are in the streets without guns and without anything; we're peacefully manifesting our desire to have democracy in the country.

CO: You know Daniel Ortega is saying that, in fact, it's the protesters who are bringing the violence out. That some of them are armed, and there are Sandinistas, there are supporters of his government who have been killed themselves. What do you say to his charges?

CM: I think that's not true. And I've seen with my very own eyes that the people who protest, my friends, my colleagues, we are going to this protest caring only Nicaraguan flags. We don't want to carry a gun because we're not going to repeat the pattern of the war. That's not what we want. And you also see in social media videos and in national media I mean the police are responding to a command. And that command has to come from the person who governs the country, and that person is Daniel Ortega.

CO: I wonder how people in general in Nicaragua are responding to this bloodshed, given that so many of them would remember what it was like in the ‘70s and ‘80s — the brutal civil war that the Sandinistas fight against the Contra rebels; just all the blood that was spilt in order to get to where Daniel Ortega was successful. Are they feeling betrayed by the revolution?

CM: Yes, I feel that they feel betrayed about Daniel Ortega. Perhaps not the revolution because the revolution was a movement that was genuinely made and organized to free us. But we feel betrayed about a person who we thought was the leader, and we thought would never become the same person as he fought, and as my parents fought, you know? So people are seeing you know that is very ironic that he describes himself as a socialist, that he describes himself as a person who wants peace, but then he sends the police to kill people who are protesting against him. And there are plenty of other ways to have a dialogue about it to find alternatives about it. But I think that because he comes from war, he thinks that's the only solution. So I talk to my friends and people that I know, and I've heard how you know infuriating it is to see that he's killing the people who are the children of the generation that fought along with him and helped build this revolution. I think people are feeling very you know outraged about the hypocrisy of the whole thing, and the way that he has handled this crisis.

CO: We will be following this crisis, Cinthia. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

CM: Thank you very much for your time.

JD: Cinthia Membreno is a journalist. She has been participating in some of the protests in Nicaragua over the past month. We reached her in Managua.

[Music: Horns]

Student writer winning

JD: In these oh so dramatic times, CBC asked Canadian students: what would William Shakespeare have to say about the world today? Nearly 600 students submitted poetry imagining what the Bard's characters would think of current events. Among the winners was 14-year-old Cynthia Gan of Richmond, British Columbia. She won in the Grades 7 through 9 category of the CBC Books national competition —her piece on the total solar eclipse of 2017. It was inspired by some star-cross'd lovers you're probably familiar with. Here's Ms. Gan reading her poem, "The Universe's Greatest Love Story" — written from the perspective of Friar Laurence, from Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet".

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CYNTHIA GAN: The moon set sail from over inky seas, where waves engulf the woeful lovers’ tears. The sun and moon like fire and powder reach across a timeless, unforgiving sea. And thus, I witnessed heaven’s stage, where there unfolds eternity's most woeful tale. A path of most tragic mischance, upon which he is condemned to dance — for the moon come every bitter sweet dawn, stained with dimmed colours of his muse. And bearing his heavy heart eva is forever plagued to bid her adieu. It is with bittersweet reverence he surrenders her beauty. And with a heavy heart fate invisible as she yawns it is Heaven's cruel trick having sparked a love this bright. Though his love then lies not truly in his heart, but in his eyes — having never seen one with beauty more absolute than that of his ever venerated muse. For none dare compare with her glorious inferno of melted gold. Though at daybreak it was not only for him whom she arose. He draws near, starved a thousand nights of her warmth. A sight that steals the breath from the sky as he comes forth, and like fire and powder, which is the kiss consumed. The birds and animals fall silent. The earth briefly entombed. As the moon is gifted two minutes cradled in her embrace, and the stars, waterlogged with envy, look away. As swiftly as the lovers met, the cosmos gently tugs them on their way — like yoke slipping from an egg. Like the sluggish moments before midnight, when time doth stand still. And so verily I witness the angels’ tapestry, intricately woven from the universe's greatest love story. Or perhaps one could say its greatest tragedy. Though upon a wise man’s observation, appears to be something in between.

JD: Wow! 14-year-old Cynthia Gan, reading her winning entry in the CBC Shakespeare Selfie Student Writing Challenge. It was called "The Universe's Greatest Love Story". To hear that again, to share it, or read the work of the other young finalists, visit: www.cbc.ca/ShakespeareSelfie.

Part three: Hungary migrant law, open access journals

Grenfell inquiry

JD: For seven days, the survivors and the family members of those who died in the Grenfell Tower fire have been sharing their stories of anger and of grief. It was nearly a year ago that fire engulfed the highrise in London, 72 people were killed. An official inquiry into the fire is underway. Nazanin Aghlani spoke today, on the last day of the inquiry dedicated to the victims. Her 65-year-old disabled mother, Sakineh Afrasiabi, died in the tower. Here is part of what Ms. Aghlani said.

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NAZANIN AGHLANI: As early as 2003, the RBKC Housing Department formally recognized and stated that due to my mom's disability, and deteriorating health, she should not be housed in a lifted property above a fourth floor. Fourth floor because that was her human right to escape — the right every single person should have. After being refused many suitable properties after 16 years of waiting, she was rehoused in 2016 into flat 151 on the 18th floor of Grenfell Tower. By this point, my mom was partially-sighted, and could only get around with the aid of a tri-walker. The move to Grenfell was out of desperation and pressure from the council. She was to take Grenfell Tower or to be suspended from the allocations for one year. She was very upset by the new place. She hated it at first. The flat itself was a dump. There was no usable bathroom, not even a proper kitchen for her to move into. Gas pipe was sticking out of the kitchen floor, and nobody knew exactly what there were, and who was to deal with it. In the end, I dealt with it. I remember vividly the only thing she kept saying about flat 151 was that she just wanted to put all the furniture in it and go back to Iran for a while. It was a home she already wanted to get away from, and I don't blame her. She was a vulnerable, disabled person, and she was put in a place that was worse than her own. The fear of living so high in her condition was always in the back of our minds.

JD: That was Nazanin Aghlani speaking today about her mother, Sakineh Afrasiabi, who died in the Grenfell Tower fire. The official inquiry into the Grenfell Tower fire is ongoing.

[Music: Ambient]

Cycling crash

JD: Yesterday on "As It Happens" we told you about a driver who plowed into a group of cyclists in eastern Ontario. The group was stopped on the side of the road, when a car swerved onto the shoulder to pass another vehicle on the right. Four cyclists were struck. Today, the Ontario Provincial Police said the driver is facing four charges, including a charge of impaired driving. Two of the cyclists are still in hospital.

[Music: Ambient]

Hungary migrant law

Guest: Andras Lederer

JD: This week, the Hungarian government unveiled the latest draft of its so-called "Stop Soros" laws. Despite its title, however, the real target of the legislation isn't the billionaire George Soros, but asylum seekers — and the Hungarians who help them. The law makes it a criminal act to help what it calls, quote, "illegal immigrants". And that could mean that NGO workers who give aid to asylum seekers — including legal advice — could find themselves in jail. Andras Lederer is an advocacy officer at the Hungarian Helsinki Committee. That is an organization which works with asylum seekers in Hungary. It is funded in part by George Soros. We reached Mr. Lederer in Budapest.

CO: Mr. Leaderer, what does this lie mean for those in Hungary who are trying to help migrants and asylum seekers?

ANDRA LEDERER: At an initial stage, what you can say is it's quite clear that the government tries to threaten individuals — including lawyers and attorneys who provide free-of-charge legal assistance to asylum seekers and refugees — to stop carrying out their work.

CO: So is it just the legal assistance of those who are seeking asylum? Or is it any kind of assistance?

AL: It's practically any kind of assistance. There are some examples of what activities might fall under the scope of this new section in the criminal code. These include — among others — border monitoring for human rights purposes, the distribution of information leaflets about the asylum procedure itself, as well as, for example, legal assistance. But they emphasize that this is a non-exhaustive list. It's just an indication — a sort of set of examples. This new section is vague enough so that it allows the government to target practically any individual that they wish to silence.

CO: Okay, so in Hungary, if you're trying to let's say distribute information to migrants who are in the country or want to get to the country. If you want to tell them these are these are your rights. This is how you do it. That may put you in jail. What if you give them any sort of counselling it might put you in jail. What if you're giving them a place to stay, a cup of tea, what happens then?

AL: Well, a place to stay is already across the red line, and it has been for years already. So providing accommodation to someone who doesn't have a right to stay in the country is a crime already. So this is not anything new. A cup of tea, yes this is something that that is a very, very good question. And many people have been asking this evening whether that would constitute a crime as well. I think no judge would sentence any individual for providing free-of-charge legal assistance to people in need — as no charge would actually sentence any person for providing a cup of tea. I think the aim here is probably not the actual sentencing of individuals to up to one year imprisonment, but to threaten people by bringing these new criminal sanctions in and making them stop their humanitarian and human rights work that they do.

CO: And though the judges may say well this is ridiculous, people will fear taking that chance. You don't know what the law means. You don't know what the limits are in this, is that right?

AL: Well, that's one of the things. The other thing is that a criminal procedure can take a lot of months — even years. And I don't know if you as a journalist, for example, would like to work under such duress in a legal limbo because you just carry out your work, and then a criminal procedure starts against you, and you don’t know for months or even years whether you are going to be acquitted or sentenced.

CO: This is an issue throughout Europe, and there are so many people who are trying to escape from their conditions and to get into Europe. And many were trying to cross Hungary or just get through Hungary to other places. How many refugees, how many asylum seekers, migrants, actually managed to get into and to stay in Hungary over this period?

AL: Well, if you're talking about last year, the Hungarian state provided protection to 1,300. That is what is considered to be a massive influx by the government.

CO: In other words, there is no problem with migrants and asylum seekers in Hungary, really?

AL: I would say there is now.

CO: Compared to the rest of Europe, were hundreds-of-thousands of asylum seekers have entered.

AL: Or just compared to Hungary in 2015, when there were almost 200,000 people passing through the country. But since 2016, since the EU-Turkey deal, the Western Balkans route experienced a much smaller flow of people.

CO: You know better than I that Viktor Orban campaigned on this idea of cracking down on migrants and asylum seekers. That this is very popular this whole plan and this law with his followers, and he won by a landslide. Why are migrants such scapegoats do you think in Hungary?

AL: Well, the government spent an enormous amount of money and time in the past three years — since 2015 — to instill fear among the Hungarians towards foreigners. So it's not just asylum seekers. And I know that from a Canadian perspective, it's very difficult to imagine or to understand such a situation. But if this is the message that's coming from all channels from the TV, from the radio, from the Internet, from the printed press for three years — and especially if you don't have the chance to actually meet these people in person and get to know them personally because they are simply not here in Hungary. Then, of course, it's a successful propaganda campaign.

CO: All right. We'll be following the story. Mr. Lederer, I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you.

AL: Thank you so much.

JD: Andras Lederer is an advocacy officer at the Hungarian Helsinki Committee. We reached him in Budapest.

[Music: World music]

Skirpal survival

JD: Yulia and Sergei Skripal are both out of the hospital now. But when they were admitted, after it was determined that they were suffering the effects of a nerve agent the prognosis was not pretty. That was back in March that the Sergei — a former Russian spy — and his adult daughter were found slumped unconscious on a bench in Salisbury, England. Now, the medical staff who treated them at Salisbury District Hospital have spoken about the experience, as part of a documentary on the BBC. Here's part what Dr. Stephen Jukes had to say.

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STEPHEN JUKES: When we first we're aware this was a nerve agent, we were expecting them not to survive. We would try our therapies, we would ensure the best clinical care, but all the evidence was there that they would not survive.

JD: The Skripals recovery has been remarkable. But how they came to be poisoned by the nerve agent has been subject to international outcry, and debate. British Prime Minister Theresa May has said it is, quote, "highly likely" that Moscow carried out the attack, using Novichok, a Russian-made substance. Moscow denies involvement; President Vladimir Putin even boasting that if Russia had really poisoned Mr. Skripal — he'd be dead. Here's what Salisbury District Hospital Medical Director Dr. Christine Blanshard told the BBC.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: Those people who say oh, if this was an nerve agent, they’d be dead. What would your response to that be?

CHRISTINE BLANSHARD: Well, they're not. You know the proof of the pudding is in the outcome. So we are very clear about what we were treating. And I think that these wouldn't be the first patients that have recovered from, for example, organophosphorus poisoning or other nerve agents.

REPORTER: Is it fair to say that people who've been exposed to that point of poisoning will be in need of long-term assistance medically.

CB: I think the honest answer is that we don't know. We have a total world experience of treating three patients for the effects of Novichok poisoning. And I think it's safe to say that we're still learning.

JD: Salisbury District Hospital Medical director Dr. Christine Blanshard, speaking to the BBC program, "Newsnight".

[Music: Ambient jazz]

Open access journals

Guest: Wilhelm Widmark

JD: Publicly funded research should be publicly available — period. That's the strong opinion of a growing number of universities in Europe — in the midst of an increasingly heated debate over open access publishing. Now, a consortium of Swedish universities has banded together and refused to renew its agreement with the academic publishing giant Elsevier. Wilhelm Widmark is the Library Director at Stockholm University and vice-head of the Bibsam Consortium of Swedish universities. We reached him in Uppsala, Sweden.

CO: Mr. Widmark, why are you pulling the plug on this agreement with the publisher Elsevier?

WILHELM WIDMARK: In the whole EU, and in Sweden, we have a demand for everything that is paid with tax money or research paid with tax money should be openly published. So today, when a researcher at Stockholm University writes an article, he gives the article away to the publisher, and then the universities buy these articles back. But science should be built on openness. We should build science on the other science. So it's, of course, everything that is published should be for the benefit of the whole world.

CO: I mean if it's important to have things published then publishers are businesses, they need to make money in order to do more business. And so their business model is based on profit in order to continue the work they do that you consider to be important. So how do you factor that in?

WW: I think we need the publishers, but I think we have to have an understanding between the universities and the publishers how we can move forward. The problem is we spend too much money on licensing to read the material. And then a lot of money to publish it open access. And those two streams must come together. We have to pay for publishing, and I think that will be a benefit for the whole world and all democracy. So I think it is really important that we do this.

CO: So if I understand it just because it's complex all the things you're describing the objective is to have open access to publications — to the science that scholars are writing and is peer-reviewed, is that right?

WW: Yes.

CO: So what model would you say? How should it run?

WW: Well, I think we have some pure open access journals where we pay to publish, and we keep the copyright. We have to look at different models. I don't think that it's any perfect model yet. We have to discuss with the different publishers how can we reach a model that sees both the universities, the researchers, and the publishers. But we have the white paper that says it's enough money in the system if you divide everything that is the cost for publishing, we could flip the system to make it open access with the money that is within the system.

CO: But meanwhile, you're pulling the plug on your relationship with Elsevier. So what does that mean for Swedish researchers?

WW: Well, I don't think we should say that we pull the plug with our relationship. We still are in discussions with Elsevier, but we are saying we cancel now. We can't pay while we are negotiating. That's a way to negotiate as well. What can happen to the researchers we have our archive access to métier between 1995 and 1st of July — then the new material that will be a problem for the researchers in Sweden to get.

CO: I understand in Germany, Elsevier has allowed scholars to continue accessing its articles, despite the fact that German universities are refusing to renew subscriptions?

WW: Yes, that's the situation in Germany as I know as well. But I think Elsevier has said to us that they will cut us down, and that’s, of course, understandable. We won't pay anymore — so they should cut us down, of course.

CO: But you know I guess the argument they're giving back is that look, this is going to happen, open access is in the future. But it needs to happen more slowly. There needs to be a transition so that everybody's on the same page, so to speak. That all the jurisdictions are working together in different continents and countries. What do you say to that?

WW: Well, I think the movement in Europe within the EU is really strong. And we are beginners, of course, we are in the forefront of this. I think Elsevier always talked about we don't have North America don't want open access in this way, and China don't want open access in this way. But I think Elsevier has to start somewhere. Has to start with pilots in Europe, and start a discussion. And, hopefully, I think the discussion about open access in this way will come to North America. Many bigger universities have begun to discuss these. And I think it will be a discussion in China and Asia as well. So I think the movement will go forward, but we are in Europe the first really demanding open access in this way.

CO: And do you have a timetable? I mean the European Commission says by 2020 it wants academic papers to be accessible as soon as they're published. Is that realistic?

WW: Well, I think it's really good to have a goal. It is a timetable, and I think we have achieved a lot in Sweden with having this timetable. And if you look at the Netherlands and Switzerland, all have really moved to the target. So I think it's really good to have a goal for 2020 to put pressure both on us and on the publishers.

CO: We will leave it there. We will be watching. Mr. Widmark, thank you.

WW: Thank you.

JD: Wilhelm Widmark is the Library Director at Stockholm University and vice-head of the Bibsam Consortium of Swedish universities. We reached him in Uppsala, Sweden.

[Music: Island music]

Caterpillars

JD: They're baaaaack. Massive numbers of tent caterpillars are setting up camp in communities across Northern Ontario, into parts of Alberta and Saskatchewan. Billions of them swarming on lawns and decks, and feasting on trees — sometimes, sadly, leaving them completely bare. CBC Radio's "Morning North" in Sudbury, Ontario spoke with entomologist and Science North staff scientist Dan Chaput about the caterpillar boom.

SOUNDCLIP

DAN CHAUT: It's a ten year cycle, so I remember several infestations over the years. A number of years ago — I can't remember exactly when — they actually had to shut down Highway 17 to clean it off so that the vehicles would stop sliding on the caterpillars. They do move en masse because there is security in numbers. So if they stay together you know one individual is less likely to get eaten or whatever

MARKUS SCHWABE: Like zombies, right? Like they just move in packs.

DC: They just move in packs to feed.

MS: Some of them may be taken out…

DC: But the majority will make it as it were.

MS: For people who don't want tent caterpillars crawling all over their house and on their sidewalks, what do you suggest?

DC: If it's on a house, just take the holes and blast them off. They will eventually come back. But I mean you can do that. There's the 40 parts water to one part dish soap if you apply it directly to the caterpillar, it'll block as little breathing pours and he'll suffocate.

MS: I saw someone online — on Facebook — as well they've got some tape around a tree trunk?

DC: Yeah, the tape will act a potential barrier. If you have sticky tape that's sticky on the outside, the caterpillars will get stuck. And the idea is that they'll stop from going up the tree. It could possibly work, but eventually maybe if they are driven by hunger, they’ll just crawl over each other.

MS: Like the zombies!

DC: Like the zombies

like this other keyboard go get stoned. That was science n staff scientist Dan Shapiro speaking to CBC Sudbury's Markus Schwabe.

JD: That was Science North staff scientist Dan Chaput talking to CBC Sudbury's Markus Schwabe. Markus says the caterpillars currently invading Northern Ontario remind him of zombies. And thatreminded us of a conversation we had last year on this program, with Chris Miller — Mosslands Manager with the Lancashire Wildlife Trust — about another strange caterpillar story.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRIS MILLER: I look after some peat bogs and I was doing a survey for a rare butterfly. And that just involved walking up and down and counting how many butterflies I can see. And then I saw this caterpillar, just on top of the branch of this small bush. And I thought that's a bit weird, that shouldn't be there. You know, caterpillars normally during the day hide down in underground and they don't want to be eaten by birds. When I finished my survey, I went back, had a look at this caterpillar and it was dead. And then I kind of went home and you know I did a bit of research and I found out that there’s this kind of bacteria virus thing that infects them. And it takes over their brain and it makes them climb to a high spot and then it kills them. And then it slowly kind of liquefies the body and bits of them blob down. Those bits infect other healthy caterpillars. So it’s quite special — incredibly gruesome. But I find it really, really fascinating. You know when I read about the virus, something is taking over your brain. And it’s forcing you to do something against your will. So it is like a zombie horror film type thing, but for caterpillars.

JD: That was Lancashire Wildlife Trust Mosslands Manager Chris Miller, who spoke to "As It Happens" about his zombie caterpillar find last August. Again, billions of tent caterpillars are currently making Northern Ontario their summer home, which has some local residents making zombie comparisons of their own.

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May, 30, 2018 episode transcript

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