April 14, 2021 episode transcript
The AIH Transcript for April 14, 2020
[host]Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden[/host]
Prologue
CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.
CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is "As It Happens".
[Music: Theme]
CO: Unreasonable force. Fifteen years ago, our guest was fired for stopping a fellow officer from placing a Black man in a chokehold. Now, a judge has ruled she was right -- and the force was wrong to fire her.
CH: Homeland security. A New Brunswick Chief celebrates the largest land claim deal in the history of the Maritimes -- and a family legacy of fighting for her community's rights.
CO: It's been five years since BC declared surging overdose numbers to be a public health emergency. Now, the province's top doctor says people need to show the same compassion to drug users that they've shown during the pandemic.
CH: From promoting major change, to a major promotion. We speak to an 18-year-old climate activist in the U.S who's gone from protesting on the streets to advising the Biden Administration on climate policy.
CO: Telling tales out of stool. A team of experts investigate a mountainous mound of bat guano that dates back thousands of years -- and hope to glean secrets from their fecal focal point.
CH: And the plots thicken. A French publisher issues a polite request for no more manuscript submissions from the public -- because everyone's written a novel during the pandemic.
CH: "As It Happens", the Wednesday edition. Radio that suggests you make love, not memoir.
[Music: Theme]
Part 1: Buffalo Officer Ruling, Climate Change Teen Advisor, Jamaica Guano Dating
Buffalo Officer Ruling
Guest: Cariol Horne
CHRIS HOWDEN: When George Floyd was killed by a Minneapolis police officer, plenty of people tried to intervene. But those people were bystanders. Some of them children. Who are now traumatized witnesses in the hugely publicized murder trial of Derek Chauvin. Meanwhile, three of Mr. Chauvin's fellow officers did nothing to stop their colleague from kneeling on the neck of George Floyd. For Cariol Horne that kind of inaction is unthinkable. Ms. Horne is a former Buffalo police officer who was fired fifteen years ago, after she stopped a white colleague from placing a handcuffed Black man in a chokehold. This week, a state court judge ruled that her dismissal was wrong -- and explicitly cited George Floyd's killing in his verdict. We reached Cariol Horne in Buffalo, New York.
CO: Cariol, how does it feel to be finally vindicated by the courts?
CARIOL HORNE: It feels awesome. It feels absolutely wonderful that after 15 years that I can now breathe a little easier.
CO: The judge said that the legal system can, at the very least, be a mechanism to help justice prevail, even if belatedly. What does that mean for you to hear him say that
CH: That meant that the judge gets it. He's like, eh, we got it wrong the first time, but here now we're going to get things right so that we can move forward.
CO: Can you just take us back to that day in 2006 when you arrived at the scene when a Black man was being taken into custody? What did you see when you arrived?
CH: When I arrived, I went inside of the house, and he was handcuffed already, and he was being punched in the face by the officer. I didn't know what happened prior to me coming in, so I helped get him out of the house. And once we were outside of the house and the officer started going to the vehicles, and he was taking Neal Mack to his patrol car, and he just stopped and decided to swing around and start choking him. So once he did that, then I yelled to him, thinking, you know, whatever happened in the house, he must still be a little upset about. So, you know, I said, Greg, you're choking him, thinking he'll stop. But he didn't.
CO: So... so this man, you mentioned, Neal Mack, this is the man who was being detained. At that time, you knew the officer who was doing this. He was... he was a fellow officer. And how did you... what did you say to him? How did you try to persuade him to stop what he was doing to this man?
CH: I yelled to him. I said, Greg, you're choking him, you know? So I used my voice basically to say, hey, like, come back to reality. We're here. We're here to help, so. And when he did not stop, I grabbed his arm from around Neal Mack's neck. You know, I had to react, or he could have been another George Floyd.
CO: And he claims that you jumped on him and pulled his shirt collar.
CH: Yeah, that never happened because we were face-to-face with a person between us, so there is no way that I could have jumped on his back.
CO: What did the Buffalo police force do in response to your encounter with Officer Kwaitkowski?
CH: They fired me. And Kwaitkowski, he continued to go on his rampage where he slammed four teenage boys head on a police car, where he eventually went to federal prison for exactly what I said, unnecessary force, unlawful, unnecessary force.
CO: And these are four Black teenagers that he did that to?
CH: Yes, he did.
CO: But meanwhile, you lost your job. You were fired just short of being able to collect your pension, right?
CH: Yes.
CO: After 20 years in the force.
CH: Yes.
CO: So what happened to your life then?
CH: My life was turned upside down. You know, I was homeless. I went through depression, PTSD. It was just horrible. So I basically didn't want that to happen to any other officer, so I thought of Cariol's Law. And in 2016, I wrote it out. I just didn't know how to get it passed. And after the Judge Floyd killing, then I connected with Strategies for Justice, and we basically put Cariol's Law, pen to paper, which is the duty to intervene -- because those officers stood by and did nothing and let George Floyd die.
CO: And what is it you're proposing with that law? Tell us a bit about that.
CH: So with Cariol's Law, it's where officers have the duty to intervene. I'm pushing for it to be a national law. And with that, I am pushing for the national registry because we don't want an officer leaving Buffalo, New York, and going to, let's say, San Jose, California, and becoming an officer there after they've shown bad behaviour in Buffalo, New York. So I would like a... a national registry so that that won't happen.
CO: And so now, since what happened to George Floyd, being killed by one police officer while three others watched, you're finally able to see Cariol's Law being adopted, right?
CH: Yes, ma'am.
CO: In Buffalo?
CH: Yes.
CO: So what's it been like for you to watch the trial of Derek Chauvin?
CH: It's been really hard to watch because you've watched the video over and over again of him kneeling on his neck. Anyone that does anything for nine minutes and twenty-nine seconds they do it intentionally. So it's very heart-wrenching. And, you know, it triggers my PTSD. And it's just really, really emotional.
CO: And for you personally, this ruling, which is the judge cites the... the George Floyd killing as part of the reason, the motivation, for that. So what happens with you now? Are you able to get your pension?
CH: I am pension eligible. I have to wait for the attorneys to work out, you know, whatever they have to work out. And then I'm just going to move forward like I said. And we can push nationally for this law so that officers will be held accountable if they don't do what they're supposed to do and stop police brutality if they see it happening -- because police officers are the only ones who can do that. Because as we saw in the George Floyd case, there were bystanders, and none of them could go up and save George Floyd's life. But one of those three officers could have.
CO: And if they had, if someone had been like you that day when George Floyd was killed, he'd be alive today?
CH: I'm sure he would.
CO: Thanks for speaking with me,
CH: You are so welcome. Thank you for having me.
CHRIS HOWDEN: Cariol Horne is a former Buffalo police officer who was fired from her job in 2006 after she stopped a white colleague from placing a Black man in a chokehold. We reached her in Buffalo, New York. And for more on this story, visit our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.
[Music: Ambient]
Climate Change Teen Advisor
Guest: Jerome Foster
CH: First, he was a climate activist protesting weekly outside the White House. Now, he's on the other side of the fence -- working as an advisor to U-S President Joe Biden. At only 18, Jerome Foster the Second is the youngest advisor on the panel, which is tasked with crafting American policy to tackle the climate crisis. We reached Jerome Foster in New York City.
CO: Jerome, if you can describe that moment when you got the call appointing you to this presidential panel?
JEROME FOSTER: The feeling that I had when I received that call that I would be a part of this council was just a feeling of... of hope, and also a feeling of this is the time. Like, it has been building up to this moment for so many years from like organizing in Washington, DC, to striking in front of the White House, to trying to pass legislation at the local and state level. And finally, it's like young people have been given a seat at the table. It's like, it's the dream come true, honestly. It's... it's an understanding of like after these years, someone has been paying attention. That after being like a young person trying to figure out what the climate crisis is all about, I'm finally able to be at the table to make the decisions.
CO: Can you describe what you've been up to for, I guess, for... for some years now as a young person, a high school student, and then for what? Fifty-eight weeks in a row in front, in Lafayette Square, in front of the White House with your protests? Can you describe what you've been up to?
JF: Yes. So I started climate striking in February of 2019. And I climate striked in front of the White House and also at Harvard University. The urgency around me actually going out and striking was that I wanted to show that young people aren't just people that are going to be taken for granted of. Like, we're born into this crisis. And I was trying to figure out a way to show the scale of like the climate emergency -- because before then, a lot of people thought that climate change was a fringe issue. When really, it was a generational issue that was impacting every single young person in the world, as we've seen. And I thought it was necessary to show that like young people are part of this fight, young people are concerned about the climate as well. So we want to show that to our elected representatives so they can't just ignore the issue and... and think that they don't need to do anything about it.
CO: OK, so your efforts to have them so that they couldn't ignore it, but they did, didn't they? I mean, you were... you were doing this at a time when the person in the... the Oval Office was denying that even climate change existed. [chuckle] You hadn't even got to the point with these with many of these elected officials that they even agreed that there was a problem. So, how frustrating has it been for you for all the time you've been protesting?
JF: I don't think it's been an issue of frustration. Because before it started climate striking, one of the first things that got me into activism was the Clean Energy DC Act, which is the most aggressive decarbonisation bill in the United States to basically make sure that we're going away from fossil fuels. And after that success of having every council member say, hey, it was great that young people came here, you need to show up more often. You need to show that the young people are part of this. And I was the only young person in the room at that time, just talking about climate change. So I knew that when I started climate striking, the president or anyone in the administration would understand that literally, this isn't something that we can continue to ignore. But they did. They ignored us. They just had great talk, and they had just talking points that they could hit that continued to kick the can down the road and not actually do anything about it. And that just gave me more urgency to say that I'm not going to go away. I'm still going to be here. Even if you aren't going to take action, you're going to know that you aren't, you're going to have that that guilt of not safeguarding a generation that is literally begging for clean air and clean water.
CO: OK, but didn't just ignore it. They were denying it. And so you were up against that. You were alone in this, your solo protest outside. But I understand some people did show up, like Greta Thunberg at one point was there beside you, right?
JF: [warm chuckle] Yes, yes. [a second warm chuckle] She joined me in September of 2019. It was a phenomenal experience because she was there and showed so much support and got so many more people to come start joining climate strikes at the White House. And, yeah, it was just an enormous amount of solidarity on an international scale.
CO: Have you had a chance to explain to people why you are doing this? I mean, because I understand before you started showing up, you... this wasn't on your agenda. You were just a kid, a young kid doing what kids do. And then you just had this turn, right?
JF: Well, climate change really has always been on the back burner in my mind of growing up and being surrounded by nature. But what spurred the moment was that I could talk to my peers, and everyone understood that climate change was around us, but no one knew a way to actually show that. No one knew a way to actually express that through their actions. So I knew that climate striking was like one of the main ways we could do that.
CO: But now you are on the inside, right? You're in the White House, so to speak. You're going to be part of this climate advisory panel for President Biden. So what are you actually going to be able to do? What influence do you think you'll actually have?
JF: I'm hopeful that we will have a. Large impact through our work to enact the Justice 40 Initiative, which means that 40 per cent of all investments in the national federal level will be allocated to environmental justice efforts. So through that, we'll be determining where those funds go and identifying frontline communities that are being hit hard by the climate crisis right now. And I think that is an incredible step forward because originally, they… the previous administration said that climate change was not happening at all. And now, we're actually being included at the table and given money to actually make the changes happen.
CO: What makes you so sure that just being at the table and there's some money given to you... I mean, do you not have any concerns that you're there as a symbol? That this, ah, now the young people here? Are you afraid, any concerns, that you'll be co-opted?
JF: I think young people are smart enough to not be co-opted. I think we're understanding of the situation that for this group, one of the things that I've also seen is that the understanding is there. Like, when we are there, we aren't wasting time talking about the issue. Like, when our first meeting, none of us had the conversation of if it's real, none of us had the conversation of, well, do we actually need to act? The conversation was, how do I identify communities, and let's get the work done.
CO: Is there any part of you that's going to miss being outside the White House looking in?
JF: Hmm. [chuckle] I would say no. It is... it's a natural like involvement of the youth movement to... to now be on the inside and say that originally we weren't invited to the conversation. Now we are. There's no envy in being outside and just yelling and hoping someone hears you. Now we're at the table, and we're guaranteed a voice. That's a pivotal shift that I'm grateful for. And even more grateful actually being excited to institute changes that we're actually going to make. And I think that's what I'm excited most about.
CO: All right. We'll be watching, Jerome. Thanks for speaking with us.
JF: Thank you. Have a wonderful day.
CH: Jerome Foster the Second is one of President Joe Biden's advisors on climate change. He's also the youngest member of the Environmental Justice Advisory Council. We reached him in New York City. And you can find more on this story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.
[Music: Electronic]
Jamaica Guano Dating
Guest: Lauren Gallant
CH: History is all about learning from what has been left behind. And in some cases, learning from what has been left behind by animals' behinds. That's what Lauren Gallant did as a PhD biology student at the University of Ottawa. She and her colleagues studied bat guano from a cave in Jamaica. And not just the recent stuff -- but layers of excrement dating back thousands of years. And they say it has given us a better sense of how bats lived, and what they ate, over time. The results of their work were recently published in the Journal of Geophysical Research: Biogeosciences. Ms. Gallant is the lead author. And we reached her in Windsor, Ontario.
CO: Lauren, you may have noticed that there is a researcher in Australia who was quoted commenting on your study and said, as a piece of work showing what you can do with poo, this study breaks new ground.
LAUREN GALLANT: [both laughing] Awe, that's very kind. [both laughing]
CO: Yes, right. Well, what do you... is that true?
LG: I think so. I'd like to think that we really showed the utility of examining bat guano and just how much information you're able to pull from it.
CO: I've seen the picture of the pile of bat guano that you took your samples from. And it's... can you describe how big that is?
LG: It was very, very large. The actual deposit itself, I think, is around two metres in height. While I wasn't part of the sampling team, I did get a vivid description of what it was like down there, so very humid environment, very warm, and just this huge guano deposit. And for sampling it, they excavated out half of it so they could reach the centre, so you're at the tallest point of it where the guano was accumulating. And then, they were able to use their tools and take one-centimetre interval samples of it and package up those samples individually in sterile conditions. And they kind of worked their way down the core. And then, at one point in time, things just got too steep, and cleaning the tools took a little bit too long and was difficult. So they actually had to stop at that point.
CO: Wow! How many years of guano has been accumulated in that mound, as far as you know?
LG: So from our records, and our…. when we did our carbon 14 dating, we were able to go back around 43-hundred years. [CO chuckles] So thousands of years of accumulation. And again, we didn't reach the bottom of the pile. So who knows how much more data is back there.
CO: And what do you think that that bat poo can tell you?
LG: So, from our study, we think we're able to track changes in the diets of the bats over the last several thousand years. So from all of the data we were able to look at, we saw two periods where we believe there is increased fruit-eating relative to insect-eating among the bats. So that could mean, one, that either the bats are now consuming more fruits, and that includes [connection breaks] that they're now switching to a fruit-based diet. Or it could mean that there was actually two periods where we see a shift in the species composition. So either the insectivorous bats are leaving the cave for whatever reason, or we're getting an influx of fruit-eating bats. And looking at all the different proxies that we studied within this cave and looking at historical climate data, we think that this might have been two periods of increased warmer and drier conditions.
CO: And do you know from other... other research that those were two periods of drought or warmer weather?
LG: Yes, yeah, previous studies have shown on lake sediment cores in the area, or just climate data, that it is suggested that those two periods were warmer and drier. And those sorts of warmer and drier conditions don't necessarily favour insects. You can think of mosquitoes, for example.
CO: But were they the same bats? I mean, over all those years, I mean, maybe just explain where exactly this mound of poo is and what animals were living there?
LG: So this guano deposit is deep within a cave in a Jamaican forest. The locations are actually protected just to ensure that we don't get any human visitors there. But it's a very, very isolated cave. And then it's tens of metres of scaling down an actual cavern of the cave where the guano deposit is located. So we were really fortunate to have a specialized team of individuals who were able to, you know, get there safely and collect the samples for us safely. But as far as we know, there have been no other humans and cave, particularly in the location of the cave where the guano deposit was. So we can be pretty sure we haven't had any human influence on those samples,
CO: Any other animals that might have used that same place as their bathroom?
LG: Great question. As far as I know, there were only in terms of like mammals, only the bats within the deep part of the cave. I'm sure there's… well, I know they were home to a lot of other insects and creepy crawlies there as well. [both laugh] I don't like to think of that part! But I'm sure there are other small mammals inhabiting the entrance of the cave. I don't know about further in the cave as it was such a steep drop into. It would be, I think, quite difficult for any other creature to get in and out if you didn't have wings.
CO: Well, it seems your colleagues, if you can judge [chuckle] by the Australian researcher who thought that your poo study is groundbreaking, that this is... this is important work, right? So what is it... what is important about this study? What are you learning that is significant?
LG: I think the biggest takeaway is just how much our activities can affect species, whether or not we're thinking about it. And it can be long-term effects. And we're fortunate that the bats are able to bounce back and, you know, modify their diet as required. But not all species are able to do so. And given the change in diet we've seen over the past several thousand years from what we think is a warmer and drier climate, we might expect to see similar changes in the future as our climate continues to change.
CO: And do you also see the evidence in that poo of human impact? I mean, I guess just as air pollution, other factors that humans contribute, climate change, CO2 emissions, does that register in any of those layers of guano?
LG: Um-hmm. So, actually, we put out a study a couple of years ago looking at the same guano deposit, and we looked at the concentration of metals in this deposit over time. And we actually see a very clear signal from leaded gasoline use, where it goes up as soon as the world started using leaded gasoline, and then it declines once we stopped putting it on the market. So we can see that these bats were affected by, you know, worldwide uses of metals. And it's... it's really important that we understand how these bats are responding to these contaminants, whether they're natural or anthropogenic -- because they do provide a number of ecosystem services, which we really rely on. So, for example, they're great pollinators. They help with seed dispersal. And they act as a natural insecticide. So, for example, a single pregnant female bat can consume 100 per cent of her body in a single night of feeding. So if you think of that in terms of mosquito consumption, you know, that's something everybody would like to continue. So I think it's important we understand how they respond to the environment, and we make sure that they're able to continue to provide these resources that we really do depend on.
CO: So this... is this your life's work, studying bat poo?
LG: I'm not sure yet. [CO chuckles] I'm... I guess I'm pretty… [chuckling] I'm done my PhD now. So I finished my work on guano for the moment. I'm currently working more on the human side of things, still looking at genotoxins, though, so it's not out of the question for me to circle some time.
CO: Well, we need those bats, and so whatever we can do to find out how we can protect them, Lauren, it's good. So thanks for speaking with us.
LG: Thank you so much for the opportunity.
CO: Bye.
LG: Bye.
CH: Lauren Gallant is doing her post doc at the University of Ottawa. We reached her in Windsor, Ontario.
[Music: Hip-hop]
No More French Manuscripts!
[furious typing]
CH: "'We did it,' said Angela Danger. 'We stopped the alien invasion! Now, we can finally win the cooking competition.' "'But Agent Danger,' Russell piped up. 'Here comes the army of sexy vampires!' THE END...OR IS IT?!"Question mark, exclamation mark -- and done. I finished my novel. When the pandemic began, I figured I'd get to work on my book about Angela Danger, a superhero spy who's also a chef, and her sidekick, Russell, a talking spatula. I just finished it. And I've already received a rejection. Earlier this month, the French publisher Gallimard tweeted, "Given the exceptional circumstances, we ask you to defer sending your manuscripts." It's understandable. When there's no pandemic, Gallimard usually gets about 30 manuscripts a day. But over the last little while, it's been deluged with 50 a day. One poll suggests a full 5 million p eople in France decided the lockdown was the perfect time to finally write their erotic thrillers about epidemiologists or whatever. But in this terrible time, their timing is terrible: there's already a backlog of books whose publication was postponed. Plus, another study shows the French actually read less last year than in non-pandemic years. So: more supply, less demand. So great work, all you French fiction writers. A book is a major achievement. Unfortunately, the novel coronavirus is not necessarily a novel-publishing coronavirus.
[Music: Instrumental]
Part 2: SK Prison Release, NB First Nations Settlement
NB First Nations Settlement:
Guest: Patricia Bernard
CH: The Madawaska Maliseet First Nation has secured the largest land claim settlement in the history of the Maritimes. The agreement means the northwestern New Brunswick First Nation will receive 145 million dollars, along with the right to acquire more than 700 hectares and add those lands to their reserve. The deal follows a tribunal decision that found the Crown had given huge swathes of Madawaska Maliseet territory to third parties -- territory that includes much of what is now the city of Edmunston. Patricia Bernard is the Chief of the Madawaska Maliseet First Nation.
CO: Chief Bernard, this is a victory that is decades in the making. What's it like for you personally? I know you have been involved since the beginning. What's it like for you to have secured this deal?
PATRICIA BERNARD: This is a great achievement, I believe, on my part. It's been a lifelong journey for me. I can say that 26 years is not a full lifetime, but it's quite a long time from start to finish. And being involved from the very beginning and actually seeing it finalized and come to fruition has been an amazing roller coaster of a journey with a lot of ups and a lot of downs. But the final result has been a great win and a happy community in the resolution of this claim.
CO: You made history.
PB: I would say I've made history, yes. [both chuckle]
CO: Yes, you certainly did. But let's just go back to, I mean, all these 26 years of you doing this. You were a student when you first figured out there was something seriously wrong here. What is it you discovered that has led you on this journey?
PB: Well, back in the 1990s, I was an undergrad at the University of New Brunswick, and I was doing some independent studies at the provincial archives. And I came across several different maps of my community at different periods of time. And they were quite different in size. And I realized that the reserve was created about 230 years ago, and it was about 4,000 acres. And over a span of about 80 years, we lost over 3,000 of those acres. So, you know, I did a little bit of a history sort of report. And then I went into law school. And in 1998, I submitted the claim with a, you know, rudimentary legal opinion and a research report. And I sent it in to Canada. Now, it sat there for 11 years before Canada came back and said, yeah, we didn't really do anything wrong because there was never a reserve there. So I decided to litigate the claim in the specific claims tribunal. And that we were in the tribunal for five years from 2012 to 2017. The whole time, Canada tried to get me off this file. [chuckle] And we finally won the decision in November of 2017. So after successfully litigating the claim, I became the negotiator.
CO: Right. And so now... so you have this largest settlement in I guess maritime history; 145-million dollars, and then this land. So where will it be? Where are the 700 hectares? Where will you be able to have this land?
PB: Well, according to the agreement, it has to be in New Brunswick, and it has to meet the criteria of the federal addition to reserves policy. We haven't put our mind to that yet, as we want to consult with the community on what type of land are we looking for? What's the purpose that we're going to use this land for? And it doesn't have to be attached to our reserve. And ideally, it will be within our traditional territory.
CO: Now, some of the lands that were unlawfully transferred of yours back in the 18th century, they are now most of downtown Edmunston. Would you consider that as a possible place?
PB: Well, no, it has to be on a willing buyer, willing seller basis. And the city of Edmunton is divided up into thousands of lots. [chuckle] So we would have to buy everybodys' lot, and they would have to be willing to sell it. So our idea is really more to look at something a little bit more open to if we want to have ceremonies if we want to do... expand our own residential area, or you do something with economic development.
CO: And so what will Madawaska Maliseet do with the money?
PB: So we distributed half of the settlement per capita. And then, we are creating a legacy trust account in order to generate interest and a steady revenue to come in over the life of the trust. And then, of course, we have projects like we have a new administration building that we want to do and a pedway and so on, and infrastructure projects and economic development projects as well.
CO: So all this began with just something that nagged at you in your research when you were a student. And so, how does it feel to have put this cornerstone of something quite large for your community in place?
PB: Well, I'm... I'm very proud, but it goes very deep to my personal ancestors because a lot of the history was around a particular individual by the name of Louis Bernard, who happens to be my great-great-great-great grandfather. And he lived the span of this history story. He lived to be 101. He was 17 years old, he was a young boy when the reserve was surveyed. And in 1861, after thousands of acres had been dispossessed from the reserve, the Indian agent came to the reserve, met with him. He was 90 years old at the time. And the Indian agent said you need to move your family and your community because the government wants to sell off the reserve. And he couldn't believe this. So, he at the age of 90, in 1861, he travelled from Madawaska to Fredericton, which is about 300 kilometres, by canoe, and he hired a magistrate, a lawyer, and he petitioned the government. And his... his petition was very heartfelt. And he said I cannot believe that the government would take my home from me. I've been... I was born here, lived here all my life. I buried my parents and my grandparents, my wives, my brothers and sisters and my children all along the banks of the river. And I can't believe that you would remove me from this place. And it clearly must have struck a chord because it was at that point that the reserve maintained its boundaries going forward. And the legacy trust that we've created, we've named it after him, the Louis Bernard Legacy Trust, because if it wasn't for him, as Canada said, there would be no reserve here. And I'm very proud of that.
CO: Chief Bernard, it's quite an accomplishment. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.
PB: Thank you.
CH: Patricia Bernard is the Chief of the Madawaska Maliseet First Nation. We reached her at her home on the Madawaska Maliseet First Nation reserve.
[Music: Industrial]
BC Overdose Anniversary:
CH: Five years ago today, British Columbia declared a public health emergency in response to surging overdose numbers. The previous year had seen about 500 deaths. Since then, thousands of people have died because of illicit drug toxicity. Last year saw a record-breaking number of overdose deaths. Over 17-hundred people died. And this year could be worse. At a press conference earlier today, provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry addressed the dark anniversary.
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BONNIE HENRY: We have said, or I have said, many times that I have learnt the opposite of addiction is connection. And now, more than ever, we need to find ways to connect with people who are using drugs to support them with compassion and with love. We also need to be bold and courageous with the measures that we need to take to address the many, many complexities of this problem together. We need to put as much time and effort, and compassion into caring for people who use drugs as we have been to responding to this pandemic. I also want to talk to the frontline workers who are out there, whether it's paramedics, peer support, families who are dealing with these multiple crises together over this past year, it has been hard, and it is still hard. But we need to continue to support each other to keep going through this right now. And I want to say thank you for all that you're doing and all that you continue to do over these next few months. And to the families and friends who are doing your best to support your loved ones with the challenges of addiction, you are not alone. This is affecting all of us. And we are here to support you, too. And for those who have lost loved ones in this past five years, we mourn with you as well. We have made progress on support for people who are, um, street-involved, increased access to safer supply. And moved ahead with the provincial Section 56 exemption around decriminalization. But we know there is not just one path, and there are many, many other things that we need to do, and we need to do more. But I am hopeful and committed to that work. If you are somebody who's using drugs or who is looking for that support that you need right now, don't use alone. We know the toxicity of the drug supply that we've heard is just at a level right now that even a single experiment can be fatal and is fatal far, far too often. Reach out and get the support you need. We can help you get through this.
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CH: That was BC's top doctor, Dr. Bonnie Henry, speaking earlier today -- five years after the overdose crisis was declared a public health emergency in the province.
[Music: Ambient]
SK Prison Release
Guest: Cory Cardinal
CH: Last week, Cory Cardinal was released from the Saskatoon Provincial Correctional Centre. But his focus is still on the inmates he left behind. For months, Mr. Cardinal has been fighting for the rights of inmates from inside the facility, and calling on the government to provide support to protect them from COVID-19. Yesterday, he organized a protest at another facility -- Pine Grove Correctional Centre -- in solidarity with some of the inmates there, who are currently on a hunger strike. We reached Cory Cardinal in Saskatoon.
CO: Cory, how have you been adjusting to life on the outside?
CORY CARDINAL: Well, I have supports. I set up the inmate support service, so I am taking advantage of that. Slowly and surely, I'm finding housing, doing all my necessary appointments and stuff. So it's going pretty, pretty good. I'm optimistic.
CO: You were there for seven months, and in Saskatoon Provincial Correctional Centre, all during this pandemic. Can you describe the conditions under which you were incarcerated?
CC: I first initially, I was put into quarantine units. Overcrowding was already prevalent. I was in a double cell, sleeping on the floor. There was shared bathrooms. There was no bathrooms in the unit... in the cells. And we were locked up all day. So you had to press a button. I know a lot of... a lot of inmates, including myself, were urinating like in garbage cans and stuff, waiting to go to the bathroom because of the overcrowding, right? So those quarantine units.
CO: Can I ask, did any of these... these quarantine protocols put in place, did you feel that at least that they were protecting you from COVID? Did people feel as though anything was put in place that would prevent them from getting infected?
CC: Hmm, I don't think so. I had little faith. I mean, and that's... like, all the inmates noticed how faulty it is, right? Shared bathrooms and the onus of the inmate cleaning fell on the inmate, right? Despite what's said, like in the media and stuff like public relations, inmates have this, and inmates have that, adequate health care, they have proper support. And during the pandemic, that was not true. That was totally not true. There was no doctor in Saskatoon Correctional. There was no doctor available, and what happened was that the inmates just got locked up in the dorm. And it wasn't just mild symptoms. These inmates were coughing up blood, even needing to go to the hospital. And I think that the nurses were just downplaying it, saying, balh, blah, blah. Doctor doesn't see people with COVID because you guys can get better and this and that. So I think they were just locking all of the suffering so that it wouldn't pour out into... into the hospitals, right? And overcrowd the hospitals. So I think that where they were trying to protect the public. They failed the inmate at the same time, right? When I first started appealing to the minister of corrections and policing, when I started recognizing all the vulnerabilities, that was back in November. And then soon after that, I went to another overcrowded unit, and then that whole unit overflow dorm, every single inmate in there got sick, all of them. So we basically predicted what was going to happen, right? And we tried to warn the minister, and it just fell on deaf ears.
CO: You actually organized a hunger strike in order to get that message out to the minister?
CC: Absolutely. There was very minimal [clears throat] the Correctional was doing. We just decided to take things into our own hands. So, yeah, that was the general consensus was that, yeah, we're going to go on a hunger strike. So that's... that's what we did.
CO: Since you have been out, you have organized a protest at another facility, the Pine Grove Correctional Centre, which is for women, where there are women in there who are themselves staging a hunger strike because of conditions. What is the message that those women are trying to get out about what they are going through?
CC: I think what we're experiencing is... experiencing is somewhat of a movement. Pine Grove stood along in solidarity with our hunger strike. And I know there's a lot of systemic racism going on in there. And we never hear anything from Pine Grove. And just lately, since they've had the bravery to stand up for themselves. So they've been on hunger strike for almost two weeks now. And that's why I organized that protest, that demonstration. It's just to show those girls that there's actually people that actually care. That they're not forgotten about.
CO: One of the issues, one of the... one of the people who was in that facility, Kimberly Squirrel, a mother of six. She was found dead and frozen just three days after she was released from that facility. That's one of the... one of the people, the stories, that they want reviewed, right, by the provincial government. So what should the jail have done to help Kimberly Squirrel, do you think?
CC: That's another tragic example of another tragic failure of another vulnerable Aboriginal woman getting released, you know, and being failed by the system. And how many times is this going to happen over and over and over? And there's recommendations in the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls inquiry that specifically emphasizes the need for better support for women coming out of the correctional centres. And caseworkers need to start, you know, recognizing when people are getting out and start diverting all the resources trying to make those calls. I know for a fact, when I was incarcerated, there's very minimal that caseworkers do. I know it's a very common scenario that they just cut them loose and say, see you later with whatever funds are left in their accounts, whatever they have, nothing. They give them a bus ticket, and that's it.
CO: Wow! Cory, I appreciate speaking with you. I… I... this is important to get... to get these stories and these issues out in the public. And I thank you for that.
CC: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like, I'm totally available if you have questions. I mean, like I have profound insight into, you know, the inner workings of the correctional system. I've done 15 years, you know? And I'm a product of that system, you know? I grew up in foster homes, you know? I was a part of gangs for a large part of my life. You know, I've been doing this for a long time. I've been advocating for inmates for a long time, you know? And because of the suffering that I've seen around me, you know? And the lack of action by... by anybody. So, you know, like so for sure, I really think it's important that the public has a right to know. We'll keep in touch.
CO: We will do that. Thank you so much.
CC: All right. Have a good day.
CO: You too. Bye-bye.
CH: Cory Cardinal is a prisoner rights advocate and the founder of Inmates for Humane Conditions. We reached him in Saskatoon.
[Music: World music]
FOA: Bernie Madoff Obit
CH: The "Ponzi scheme" may have been named after an Italian swindler -- but it was Bernie Madoff who was truly its master. Mr. Madoff spent decades as a seemingly trustworthy Wall Street kingpin. But he was actually orchestrating the largest Ponzi scheme in history -- worth an estimated 65-billion dollars. Bernie Madoff died today in prison. He was 82. Among his estimated thirty-seven thousand victims were actor Kevin Bacon, the owners of the New York Mets, and countless elderly people who ended up losing everything. And his scheme exposed holes in the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission -- which repeatedly missed chances to nab him. In March of 2009, Mr. Madoff pleaded guilty to the fraud. He was sentenced to 150 years in prison. At the time, Carol spoke with Richard Shapiro, one of Mr. Madoff's victims. Here is that interview from our archives, beginning with how much money Mr. Shapiro lost.
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RICHARD SHAPIRO: I'm not going to tell you, but I will say many millions of dollars.
CO: Mr. Madoff is expected to enter a guilty plea on all the charges. What do you think of that?
RS: It doesn't surprise me. There's no doubt he's guilty. What's most disconcerting to me is the notion that he's not cooperating. He's not leading investigators to where the money is and where it went. And my guess is he's doing that to try and shield his wife and his children and his grandchildren so they can hold on to some assets. And I find that to be abhorrent, to me. And so I think he's taking the easy route, which is to say he's 70 years old. You know, what's his expected life span? So he'll go to jail, he'll go to jail silently, and leave it up for the rest of the victims to suffer.
CO: Where do you think, and how much of the money do you think is still there? I mean, some of it, just he's already spent. It's... it's gone. It's evaporated. But you think that there's quite a lot of it that is someplace?
RS: Well, I mean, it's just hard to imagine 65-billion dollars evaporating. I mean, even if he was the worst trader on Wall Street, it's hard to imagine he could lose that much money. I don't know. I have no clue. I never met the man, never spoke to the man. So I don't know.
CO: Does it... does it give you any comfort knowing that Bernie Madoff will probably spend the rest of his life in jail?
RS: Comfort? No. I mean, frankly, as far as I'm concerned, he's the devil. I'd assume that if he were dead or didn't exist, there's no comfort in that to me at this point. What I have to be focused on is how do we rebuild our lives? And, you know, I don't give a damn what happens to Bernie Madoff. What I care about is what our government is going to do in terms of modifying tax codes and... and increasing sepic funds and other things that should be done for victims. I had my entire pension plan invested with Madoff. It's gone. It's zero. I have no retirement savings at this point. And I... and I... and so, you know, I want to know, since the government allowed this to happen, what are they going to do?
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CH: That was Richard Shapiro speaking with Carol in March of 2009. He lost his life's savings to Bernie Madoff. Mr. Madoff died today in prison. He was 82.
[Music: Folk]
Part 3: Ever Given Fine, Black Hole Research
Ever Given Fine
Guest: David Osler
CH: It's been roughly three weeks since the Ever Given ship was freed from the Suez Canal. Its six-day ordeal saga there was always expected to make some sort of financial dent. But right now, that dent is being presented more as a gaping crater. Egyptian authorities have seized the vessel and are demanding the ship's owners pay close to a billion dollars in damages, in exchange for its release. David Osler is a journalist for Lloyd's List -- a British news site that's been covering the shipping industrustry for over a hundred years. We reached Mr. Osler in London, England.
CO: David, what claim does Egypt have to the Ever Given ship that it can hold the vessel captive like this?
DAVID OSLER: Well, first of all, it is fair to point out it does have a legitimate claim. It does have a claim for compensation for its loss of revenue. It does have a claim for the outlay that it's had to spend on its salvage effort. So there is a legitimate claim there.
CO: But now, they're holding the ship for, and demanding, nearly a billion dollars in damages. Does that seem realistic?
DO: Not what people in the London insurance market tell me. I mean, everybody wants to keep quite quiet and not say anything that's going to make life worse for the crew. But the general reaction is that 900-million is just not tenable on a ship that's only worth 100-million in itself. I mean, who's going to pay that? They just can't say, oh, okay, take the ship.
CO: You think that might happen?
DO: No. What I'm expecting to happen is some sort of arbitration somewhere between the two sides. I mean, what people think is that the Suez Canal Authority is deliberately come in with a high-ball bid as an opening offer, and the insurers are going to come back with a low counter offer. Somewhere along the way, these two sides are going to have to meet in the middle.
CO: what they're claiming were the damages, not just that the... this ship blocked one of the most important sea routes in the world for all of six days, but that they had... and it kept 400 vessels from being able to cross between... between Europe and Asia and back…. back and forth through that passage. But that it was... there was this flotilla of... of tugboats that had to be used, the dredging, the movement of tremendous amounts of mud and sand. So that's got to come with a price tag?
DO: Oh, sure. But we did a back of an envelope calculation back at the office. If you divide last year's Suez Canal revenue by 365, you get a revenue of roughly 15-million dollars a day. So that's 90-million. You can throw in a few tens of millions for the outlay that they spent on the salvage operation. You can even be generous and throw in a few more tens of millions just as compensation for the inconvenience and aggravation. But this is nothing that 200-million dollars shouldn't settle. I would have thought.
CO: And so you think this is just the kind of opening bid for bargaining?
DO: Well, if you look at the breakdown of the demand that they're asking for 300-million dollars for loss of reputation. They're asking for 300-million dollars for something called a salvage bonus, which no one is quite sure what that is. But as far as the rest of the market can make out, this looks like an inflated opening bid, yeah.
CO: And so what has the... the insurance company countered with, do you know?
DO: No, they haven't made that public,
CO: But they say that they have made a fair and generous offer, is that right?
DO: That's the wording on their statement, yes, that's... that's what they're saying, that they've made a counteroffer.
CO: Now, what about there's 25 crew members from India, I believe, on board. What's happening with them?
DO: Well, at the moment, they're not being allowed to leave the vessel, but they can't be held forever. There is something called the Maritime Labour Convention. So eventually, they're going to be have to be let go when their tour expires. But for the moment, yeah, that's the unpleasant thing about this. They're being prevented from leaving the vessel and being used as a pawn in this game, which is not their fault. You've got to be sympathetic to those guys.
CO: And so they are there. They can't... they can't leave… leave the ship, let alone go home. They have families. They've been gone for a long time. What do you think it's like for them?
DO: Well, you know, it's obviously a bit rubbish. But let's remember that [chuckling] up to 400-thousand seafarers have been stranded around the world for the last year because of the coronavirus pandemic. So it's been a pretty poor year for... for many seafarers. And for these guys, in particular, it's got to be poor for them as well.
CO: What's to become of the cargo that's on the Ever Given?
DO: This is another legal dispute. Without wanting to get too complicated, basically, the cargo owners are being asked for a contribution towards the salvage costs. And many of them are not particularly happy about that. I'm expecting a bonanza for lawyers there [CO cuckles] as that goes to litigation. I mean, you know, it has thousands of containers on there with up to 20 cargo interests per container. You know this is a lot of work for a lot of attorneys.
CO: And what about other, like speaking of attorneys, other potential lawsuits? I mean, all the other…. the ships that were held up, all the losses that were incurred by so many different... different companies, different transport organizations, are they going to… are they going to get in here with lawsuits, too?
DO: I think from what I can work out, most of them are going to lose out. There is a product on the marine insurance market called delay cover. It does what it says on the can. You know, if you're held up for something that's not your fault, you'll get compensation. But the snag is only one in 10 ships, or something like that bothers to take it out. You know, people just assume that they're going to get an easy passage through the canal. And when something like this happens, you know, they lose out.
CO: So, how many insurance claims do you think are out there potentially because of this six-day saga?
DO: Oh, god, it's... it's thousands. And as I said, many of them heading for the court, potentially in Canada, too, I'm told, actually, you know, for Canadian consignees looking for insurance payouts and disputing the amount with their insurers. So, as I said, you know, bonanza for the legal profession.
CO: What a mess! What about the captain of the Ever Given? What's to become of him?
DO: There have been historic instances where captains have been scapegoated. I mean, this has outraged the legal profession. I hope this doesn't happen here. But so far, nothing I've heard indicates that seamanship was... was at fault. But how can I put it? Egypt is not the most liberal jurisdiction. So he might face some sort of penalty in the local laws. You'd need to consult someone who knew Egypt better than I do.
CO: Yikes! All right. We'll leave it there, David. Thanks for speaking with us.
DO: Thanks, Carol.
CO: Bye-bye.
DO: Bye-bye.
CH: David Osler is a journalist for the British news site Lloyd's List. We reached him in London, England.
[Music: Hip-hop]
The Leaping Lizard
CH: There's a fitness routine out there for everyone. No equipment? No problem. Short on time? Sure thing. Have the sudden urge to metamorphose into a ripped reptile? Have at 'er.
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MAN: This one's also going to be explosive. This one's called the Leaping Lizard. I want you to pop off the ground with your hands, OK? Pop off the ground. And as you pop off the ground, that's when you switch feet in the air, kind of how lizards run. That's why we call it that.
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CH: I'm going to guess that 65 years ago, people weren't doing the Leaping Lizard in their living rooms. But the Royal Canadian Air Force was starting to think about simple, quick, high-intensity, at-home workouts -- that weren't just for soldiers and athletes.
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MAN#2: Certainly, the professional athlete needs to be fit, but for the ordinary man, there is also a very important reason. He stands to gain a more active life, both physically and mentally. And as an added bonus, he may even extend his lifespan a good few years.
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CH: That last part about "extending your lifespan by a good few years" must have got the attention of one Royal consort. Prince Philip died last week at the age of 99. And apparently, the made-in-Canada workout, nicknamed the 5BX, was a favourite of the Queen's husband. It was a combination of sit-ups, push-ups, back extensions, running on the spot, and stretches. And the daily, eleven-minute routine is said to have helped keep the Prince remarkably fit, right until the end of his life. In 1961, Wing Commander J.K. Tett told CBC Radio about the fitness routine that was sweeping the nation. That sounds like I'm exaggerating, but the 5BX -- which is short for Five Basic Exercises -- was so popular it sold 23-million copies.
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J.K. TETT: Now, the thing that keeps people away from exercise -- and this is the only way you can be fit is to do exercise regularly. The thing that keeps them away is the cost of joining a club or a uniform or special equipment and time. They don't like to spend too much time on it. Some people are ashamed, their sports skills such that they won't go out and play with the others. They don't want to look like a duffer, you know? If we could come up with a short, concise program that a person could do at his own home and measure his physical capacity against an average, it would attract him—the minimum number of exercises that will give you an all-around physical development. And we've boiled it down into the minimum number of minutes required each day.
CLEL BRYANT: But Wing Commander Tett, for those listeners who aren't familiar with the plan, could you explain what the plan is?
JT: You start out in each of the basic exercises in a very simple form of that exercise. You do so many repeats of each exercise in so many minutes, totalling eleven a day. After a week or two weeks, three weeks, you're having a pretty stiff workout.
CB: Now, Wing Commander Tett, I've heard it said by people who have been doing the 5BX that it doesn't take any pounds off. It merely rearranges them. Is that correct?
JT: Well, not necessarily. It will rearrange poundage. However, if one maintains 5BX regularly each day and... and does a little sensible thinking about diet, it will reduce and tighten your muscles up and reduce.
CB: Does the physical endurance that it gives you help out in, say, an office job where you don't need endurance?
JT: Oh, by all means. There are far too many people who, at 4:00 or 3:30, just tire out. They're useless from there on to the end of the day. And they go home and sit in an armchair and watch TV. Now, if you're doing regular and vigorous exercise and get yourself physically fit, your job is done far more efficiently.
CB: And one final question, Wing Commander Tett, just where does one buy this book?
JT: Well, most... most bookstores sell them now, and some of the magazine stores, the corner stores. But if you can't get one from a bookstore, you can write to the Queen's printer. And if you enclose a money order or a check for 35 cents and ask for either 5BX or XBX, you'll get one by return mail.
CB: Thank you, sir.
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CH: That was Royal Canadian Air Force Wing Commander J.K. Tett, telling CBC reporter Clel Bryant all about the hot, new, 11-minute fitness craze, the 5BX. Prince Philip swore by the workout -- and it's being credited for keeping him so sprightly, until his death last week at the age of 99.
[Music: Industrial]
Black Hole Research
Guest: Daryl Haggard
CH: They were always an absorbing subject. But research released today gives us a whole new perspective on black holes. Two years ago, scientists around the world combined their observational power to create an image of a black hole like nothing we'd ever seen before. The black hole in the faraway M-87 galaxy looked kind of like a fiery donut in space -- but like some donuts, it held secrets that are only now being revealed. Scientists have been busy analyzing those images ever since. Among them is Daryl Haggard of McGill University's Space Institute. We reached her in Montreal.
CO: Well, just before we get to what you have now found out about this black hole, and for those who didn't see the image when it first came out, just describe what does it look like?
DARYL HAGGARD: Yeah, that's a fantastic question. And it looks kind of like a doughnut, I think, is the thing that most people have likened it to. But what we're really seeing when we look at this amazing image is a shadow. So we're seeing the sort of projection, the shadow of the black hole against all of the hot, swirling gas around it. And today, what we've been showing the world is this amazing snapshot that we've taken not only of that swirling gas down near the black hole, but... but sort of, you know, intermittent snapshots all the way out to where the jet that comes out of the black hole is smashing out into space at scales way larger than the galaxies. Pretty, pretty awesome! [chuckling]
CO: We think of a doughnut as being a quite small thing. But this ain't small, is it?
DH: Well, you know what? It is... it is not small. So this black hole has, get this, six and a half billion times the mass of our sun. That's a lot more mass than our sun. But weirdly, all of that mass is actually packed down into something that is about within the orbit of Pluto, pretty similar to our solar system. So it's a whole lot of mass crashed down into a very, very small volume, at least to an astronomer. But it is about the size of our solar system.
CO: And what were you able to observe about this energy that's coming out of the black hole?
DH: Yeah, soo we see this emission that is, you know, in the sort of swirling gas near the black hole. And what we've started to be able to do is to trace out how the physics down at that very small scale is actually driving like an engine that is just pushing out this incredible sort of flow of energy, almost like a lot of power cable is sometimes how people think about it. And what we're really seeing is kind of to give an analogy, like the moment that a hockey stick, just right that moment when you're watching the stopgap videos, right, when it smashes into the puck, we're sort of seeing that... that impart of energy from the black hole into this incredibly big structure. So we've got this amazing snapshot of this black hole imparting just huge amounts of energy into this beautiful sort of tube-like structure that flies out from the galaxy, out into the space around the galaxy.
CO: So what does it actually look like then?
DH: It looks like, so you've got the doughnut. We start with a doughnut. And as you zoom out, you sort of see that, in fact, there's no real outer edge. So when you look at the first image, it really does look like something that, you know, Bart Simpson or Homer Simpson would love to eat. But it turns out that actually, that's sort of an artifact, that outer edge, is a little bit of an artefact of the way we observe it with the Event Horizon Telescope. And, in fact, really that... that hot gas extends out much, much further. So we have a pretty video that came out. People can find it online. It was produced by NASA today. And you can actually see if you zoom out that… that gas extends very, very far out away from the black hole and then links up to this amazing like tube of energy that is actually kind of directed not quite perfectly toward the earth, which is kind of nice for us, but a little bit of an off-angle. And so we can see it march out to larger and larger scales. It's sort of like this long tube of energy with little knots of kind of brighter pockets in it where the energy is piling up at certain places, where it smashes into other parts of the universe.
CO: [chuckling] Wow, that's beautiful! [DH chuckles] And what does it tell you then about how black holes actually work?
DH: Yeah, so it's... it's one of the first times we've been able to look at all these different scales. So since I'm a lover of analogies, let me give you another one. So this amazing sort of set of images and a movie that we've shared with people today covers what we would say as physicists eight orders of magnitude, which sounds fancy kind of. But everybody understands it now because eight orders of magnitude is the difference in size between a virus, which we've heard about a lot in the news. So a very tiny, tiny, tiny little thing that lives almost at the scale of DNA in our bodies, a little bit bigger than that, all the way up to the size of a human. And it's really starting to teach us how does this tiny little black hole actually manage to force so much energy out into the universe and to actually show us how does that actually create this incredible structure that we can see on this very large, large scale?
CO: And where does all that energy go?
DH: It actually pours out into the universe. So this is a particular kind of source. The brightest examples people might have heard of are called quasars. And people didn't know what quasars were originally. It turns out they are black holes, we think, that have this hot gas flowing in and these really bright jets flying out. And those sources, those quasars, have actually been lighting up the universe for many, many, many, many, many thousands and millions of years throughout the life of our universe. So it actually offers us an opportunity to kind of use these sources as time machines and look back at what our universe looked like when it was in its infancy. So learning how these jets come about, how these big, huge structures come about, can actually then be sort of wrapped into our theories about what was going on at the very birth of our... our own universe.
CO: Wow! Once again, wow! [both laughing] Now, but... but you couldn't know this if it hadn't been for this extraordinary project because this was with 760 scientists and engineers, 200 institutions, 32 countries or regions using every powerful telescope and observatory that you can get your hands on. How was it... how difficult was it to pull this collaboration together?
DH: It is so hard and so fabulous. [laughing] So you are right; 760 brilliant minds come together like a huge train crash. So it's been super fun. I can't even tell you, Carol, how much fun we've had. It's a lot of work. You know, there are a lot of opinions and thoughts and so much complex, very finicky sometimes data that needs to be brought to bear on these questions. And so it takes an enormous amount of human ingenuity and sort of stick-with-it-ness, alongside a lot of just excitement and enthusiasm. It's been so fun. The amount of human effort and energy, it's breathtaking, it's so... so fabulous about human endeavour and the human mind and our... our will to learn. It's just exciting.
CO: Well, Daryl, thank you for telling us about this and being such an inspiration.
DH: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
CO: Take care.
CH: That was Daryl Haggard of McGill University's Space Institute. We reached her in Montreal. And we've tweeted the new black hole video from NASA that she mentioned. You can find that on Twitter at: @CBCAsItHappens.
[Music: Ambient]
Matthew Fisher Obit
CH: Matthew Fisher knew what he was doing. And that wasn't a coincidence. He was very committed to knowing what he was doing. And very concerned about how many people seemed to do without knowing. The celebrated Canadian journalist and longtime war correspondent died on Saturday. He was 66 years old. Mr. Fisher was known for living out of his suitcase -- because he went to where the conflicts were. He went readily. And often repeatedly. He visited more than 170 countries, and covered over 20 wars and civil conflicts. His coverage of the war in Afghanistan was especially noteworthy. In 2010 he spoke with the CBC about that war -- and about how the story of that war was being told.
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MATTHEW FISHER: My concern is when you cover the prime minister, for example, in a federal election or the other leaders, you send experienced journalists on the plane. When it's the Stanley Cup final, all news organizations want to have their more experienced people there. For the Afghan war, this is very much the deep end of the pool. But not only do we not have the most experienced people, and wars generally attract younger people than older people anyway. But most of the journalists who go there don't ever come back. It's like they're punching a ticket. And this does not serve Canada very well. I hear all the time Canadians want to know what this mission is about. I don't think there's been an informed debate at all in this country. Part of the reason is that the leaders of the major political parties don't seem to want that. And the other reason, I think, is that the Canadian media have not given them enough information.
ALAN NEAL: Do you think it makes a difference, and I know this can... is... is something of a chicken and the egg syndrome, but do you think that the public opinion on the war here in Canada has affected any journalistic agencies from... from sending more senior reporters? From the people going back?
MF: Well, you could argue just as easily that the one reason the public has the opinions it has is because they haven't been particularly well-informed.
AN: That's what I'm saying, the chicken and the egg, but.
MF: And so you can reverse the... the argument. I don't think that is the reason. I think one of the major reasons is we don't have a tradition of war reporting in this country. We had it with Matthew Halton and Peter Stursberg and others, Charles Lynch, during the Second World War. But that has been lost long ago, and there's not great value in a newsroom. People often think that I'm rather strange for wanting to go there. But John Burns, the Canadian who writes for The New York Times, a double Pulitzer Prize-winner, he was with me one day outside the Green Zone in Baghdad, and some American tanks were clattering down the street. And there's a lot of shooting at the end of the street, and attack helicopters were in the air. And he said to me, isn't there... there's no other place in the world you would want to be right now if you're a foreign correspondent. If you're interested in being a journalist, this is the place. Well, that's kind of how I feel for a Canadian about Afghanistan. But I don't think that opinion is shared very widely.
[/sc]
CH: Veteran war correspondent Matthew Fisher, speaking with CBC Ottawa's Alan Neal in March, 2010. Mr. Fisher died on Saturday. He was 66.
[Music: Glassy guitar riff]
Flatulence Man Fine
CH: Sometimes a thing will happen that reminds you: Life can change in no time flatus. Just ask the Austrian man who has been fighting a steep fine he received last summer after an encounter with police. He was upset, and he let them have it. But what he let them have was the problem. He was slapped with a 750-dollar ticket for "offending public decency [by] farting provocatively". He vowed to fight that fine. And now, at long last, he's experiencing some relief. A judge has agreed the fine was bloated -- and has reduced the amount owed to a more manageable flatulence fee. A win for those who may or may not have broken the law, but definitely broke the wind. But for the unnamed man, it was never really about the money. It's was about the principle. He was fighting for the little guy -- the silent-but-deadly majority. The police said that, when asked to identify himself, the man looked directly at the officers and -- quote -- "let go a massive intestinal wind apparently with full intent." But in court, he argued his emission was covered by freedom of expression. And now, those officers have learned a lesson. That gassy man was their teacher. And all of Austria may benefit from his tootelage.