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The AIH Transcript for December 5, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight...

CO: Extremely open Mike. Special Counsel Robert Mueller says Michael Flynn has given substantial assistance to his investigation -- our guest says that means there's substantially more to come.

JD: One giant leap. Amazon jumps off-board as a sponsor of a prestigious Quebecois literary award -- after every finalist for the prize spoke out against the corporation's involvement.

CO: No closure -- no disclosure. In the four months since her son was shot dead by a Quebec police officer -- our guest has received no clear answers about why, so she's taking action.

JD: Clipping the bird. The hands in cave paintings are often missing fingers -- and Canadian researchers now believe that is because Stone Age people had a thing for ritual amputations.

CO: Bulletin beard. Newfoundland singer Chris Andrews is auctioning off his facial hair to raise money for a family in need -- and he'll tell us how push came to shave.

JD: And... naiveté scene. A Texas man put up a display paying tribute to 'National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation' not realizing that concerned citizens would think the dummy hanging from the edge of his roof was an actual person in actual danger. As It Happens. The Wednesday edition. Radio that looks forward to celebrating Christmas eave...strough.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Michael Flynn memo shows Mueller has more tricks up his sleeve: former prosecutor

Flynn sentencing

Guest: Elie Honig

JD: There is a lot we don't know about what Michael Flynn has told Robert Mueller. Much of the sentencing memo the Special Counsel filed in court late yesterday is blacked out. But in it, Mr. Mueller describes the information Mr. Flynn provided as "substantial." He also recommended the former National Security Adviser serve no jail time. Those with experience in investigations say these are among the clues in the heavily redacted memo about what may lie ahead in Mr. Mueller's probe. Elie Honig is a former federal prosecutor. We reached him in New York.

CO: Mr. Honig you have compared this Michael Flynn sentencing memo to a movie trailer. What do you mean by that?

ELIE HONIG: So last night everyone I think who follows this stuff was sort of eagerly refreshing the computer waiting for this filing -- and when it came out like a movie trailer you kind of got the gist and you felt excited, 'oh I want to see that' but you didn't know the details. And so I think that's what we have here. Like a good movie trailer there are hints and clues that this is going to be good but we don't know exactly what it's got just yet -- it was kind of a comeback later if you want the full thing.

CO: But do you think this special prosecutor Robert Mueller wanted it to be a tease like that?

EH: No, I don't think he did it intentionally in order to tease the public. I think his reasons for redacting so heavily is a perfectly sound one which is anytime you're running an investigation as a prosecutor you have to maintain the confidentiality and the secrecy of an ongoing investigation. I think one of the big revelations we got is that he has several, multiple, ongoing criminal investigations. So that's why he redacted -- but that to me was one of the biggest revelations in the whole thing -- but the quote from Mueller's filing is, several ongoing investigations. More than one investigation still ongoing meaning if there will be arrests we've not seen them yet, they will be forthcoming.

CO: Well another part of that -- not just several ongoing investigations but Mr. Flynn, Michael Flynn, has given substantial assistance. What does that tell you? What is the message in that?

EH: So substantial assistance is a somewhat common term for cooperators who do their job. That's a term you will probably see in almost any cooperator letter from a prosecutor for a successful cooperator. Now Mueller clearly is a very harsh judge of his cooperators -- if anyone goes in there and tries to lie, mess around, hide the truth, shade the truth, he will cut them loose. He did it to Paul Manafort when he caught Paul Manafort lying. He wrote a [inaudible] sentencing submission for George Papadopoulos when Papadopoulos played around. And so one thing I took out of this filing is that Mueller is satisfied thoroughly that Flynn was honest and forthcoming with him. And I think that tells you something because Mueller is extremely careful. He only commits to positions that he knows he can support with hard evidence. So to me that tells me that Flynn has been honest and forthcoming in Mueller's judgment and that Mueller has the ability to back up whatever Flynn told him.

CO: The main thrust of the investigation -- we know that there are several ongoing investigations, but the one that the world is following is this Russian election interference and the possible collusion with the Trump administration. What could Michael Flynn have shared with the Mueller commission to that end? What does he know? What would be significant in what he would have revealed?

EH: So another important clue that we get from yesterday's filing is that Flynn in fact did provide Mueller some information about what Mueller calls links or coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign. What we sometimes call collusion. It could have been the case that Flynn just told Mueller, I just don't have anything on that. But clearly Flynn did have something. What specifically that is we don't know, we don't have any way of knowing. What to do keep going back to is that remember how highly placed Michael Flynn was in the campaign. Remember he had a prominent role in the campaign and in the convention -- where he made his infamous 'lock her up' speech. Ironic I guess. And in the administration he was the National Security adviser for a very short time -- but for three weeks or so. And so that is inner-inner circle stuff and so Flynn would have been in a position to know the inner workings of the Trump campaign in early days of the administration.

CO: Would he have also known about the WikiLeaks release of the Clinton memos and the Clinton information from the Democrats? Would he have known about that?

EH: It's possible again because of his access. I haven't seen any indication yet that he is specifically involved in that. There's a lot of people who I think have been pulled into that whether it's through the Trump Tower meeting or their dealings with WikiLeaks whether we're talking Roger Stone or Jerome Corsi even Donald Trump Jr., Manafort, Jared Kushner, who were at the Trump Tower meeting. I've not seen Michael Flynn's name connected to any of that just yet. But look there is this one sort of what I've been calling the 'mystery investigation' that's referenced in the filing and it's almost fully redacted -- it's something like 30 lines of redactions with a couple of words saying there is another investigation and then straight redaction. We have no idea what that could be. We can speculate all day about what it might be. But we do know that there's something else that Flynn has contributed to Mueller beyond collusion.

CO: What does this memo about Michael Flynn, the sentencing memo, what does it tell you about the strategy of Robert Mueller?

EH: So tells me a couple of things. First of all it tells me I think there's farther to go than a lot of people had been surmising out there. Heard a lot of people saying we're in the ninth inning and he's getting ready to wrap up. I don't think you can possibly look at this memo and draw that conclusion. There are still multiple investigations that are ongoing -- those take a while to wrap up. And if they result in arrests then you're going to have the whole criminal process behind those people which takes months or I've had cases take years. The other thing is Mueller tort reform is being systematic -- he's building his case brick-by-brick and he doesn't put something in a court filing or an indictment unless he's got it locked down. I think we see that continuum with Flynn. I think we can see some of the more pieces or potential pieces coming into focus now and I think we'll see more later this week with the filings are Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort.

CO: Which is going to be on Friday apparently.

EH: Yes I think that's the schedule.

CO: If it's the case that Mr. Mueller is slowly circling the wagons around Mr. Trump, some of his inner circle, and members of his family, is it possible that what he's done with this memo is to rattle them? To make them -- 'we have a lot on you. We can't begin to tell you. But you can just get an idea that we've got stuff.' Is it part of the strategy is just to rattle them?

EH: I think that may be one of the effects of this memo. Having read it I think I would probably be a bit rattled if I was Trump or someone in his family. But I do not think that's the intent that Mueller has. I don't think Mueller says 'oh I'm going to scare these guys. I'm going to shake them up.' He's not that kind of prosecutor. I don't know him personally but he was in charge of the FBI throughout my years as a federal prosecutor. He came around and spoke. I know plenty of people who worked with him. I don't think he plays games. I don't think he tries to mess with people's minds just because he can. I think he's meticulous. I think he's careful. And I think this filing may have that impact but I don't think that was his intent.

CO: Alright. We'll be following. Mr. Honig thank you.

EH: Thanks very much for having me.

JD: Elie Honig is a former federal prosecutor who we reached him in New York. And there is more on this story on our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Quebec ethics complaint

Guest: Tracy Wing

JD: It has been more than four months since a Quebec police officer killed her son. And Tracy Wing says she is still looking for answers about what exactly happened. Quebec's independent investigations bureau, the BEI, says police officers saw 17-year-old Riley Fairholm with a gun walking along a highway in Lac-Brome, Quebec. The BEI says officers tried to intervene but when Mr. Fairholm became threatening, they opened fire and killed him. A BEI investigation into what happened in those early hours of July 25th is still under way. But Riley's mother, Tracy Wing, says she has been kept in the dark. Yesterday she filed a complaint with the Quebec Police Ethics Commission. We reached Tracy Wing in Lac-Brome.

CO: Ms. Wing first of all I'm sorry about the loss of your son.

TRACY WING: Thank you.

CO: How did you come to learn about his death first of all on that morning of July?

TW: I received a text message in the early hours of July 25th at 1:42 from Riley saying 'I love you.' And that was kind of a trigger for me. Riley has been suffering from depression for a few years and so I went to check on his room, I tried calling him, and he wasn't there. I went back to my room and thought he had left me a note. So I got dressed and I ran and I thought maybe he had gone to the beach and as I was going there I passed a first responder vehicle -- and this being a small town not a lot of accidents going on, I decide to turn around -- I'm a first responder myself, to follow her. And as soon as I arrived I saw a lot of lights, lot of police cars, and I saw her doing CPR on someone that was on the ground. And I got out of my car and I went to go towards her and the person -- a female police officer stopped me and asked me what I was doing there and I said I think it's my son. She did not want to let me go. She said I wouldn't want to see him like that -- it may not be him. And then we went into my car and I just gave her any information that she wanted. I was all for it -- I thought that maybe he had thrown himself in front of a car because there weren't any tall buildings. It's quite an open area. So that's what I had thought.

CO: And so what did you learn from the police as to what had happened?

TW: I only learned of the circumstance of his death at around 3:00 a.m. 3:30 a.m. we were told to go to the hospital. And then the SQ officer that was escorting the medical staff everywhere -- she told me that they received a 911 call about a man dressed in black with a firearm screaming in town and that the police arrived, gave him two commands over the megaphone, and your son died due to a police intervention.

CO: What do they mean by police intervention?

TW: Well I said did you -- in French I said, did you kill my son? And she said yes. And so I assume that he was shot. But no one has told me -- confirmed from the police or the BEI where he was shot.

CO: The BEI which is the independent investigations bureau that investigates police.

TW: That's correct. Yes.

CO: But up to that point you thought that if it was your son that he had taken his own life and now you're learning that he had been shot by police.

TW: I was numb for a long time -- just in shock because never in a million years would I have thought that the police would kill my son. And I didn't feel good about having had talked to that female officer on the scene because had she told me that they had shot him -- I don't think I would have left that site at all. I would have stayed there and made sure that they didn't move or talk to each other or you know.

CO: Riley's father with whom you're not married anymore -- how did he react? Because he got quite angry about this, didn't he?

TW: Yeah he got quite angry over the telephone as anyone would. He said some things you know and he said those 'F-ers, I'm going to kill them.' And when I hung up the phone -- because I hung up right away, the police officer was like right in front of me and she said I don't understand English but that I understand. And she said it's okay because you know it's in the moment.

CO: But the police actually charged him.

TW: They charged. They came to his house, they arrested him, and released him that same day. He had to go...

CO: Sorry, what was he charged with?

TW: Threatening a police officer's life.

CO: And they did drop the charges eventually.

TW: They did eventually -- well the Crown actually wouldn't prosecute.

CO: What is it you want to know about what happened to your son that early morning? Do you know how many shots were fired? Do you know was there efforts to deescalate? What do you know about what happened?

TW: I don't know anything about what happened. I do know that there was one shot. I was able to get that out of the BEI agent a couple of weeks ago.

CO: Sorry, one shot by the police?

TW: One shot by one police man -- I believe it's a man.

CO: One lethal shot that he was killed by...

TW: Yeah. And my first responder told me where he was shot. So he was shot in the forehead. And you know after this happened we heard a lot you know 'well that's how the police are trained. They're trained to shoot to kill.' And just that sentence, regardless if it was my son that was shot, I've never agreed with that. There are ways to deescalate -- they could have just waited in their car, back off. Riley was alone -- he was a danger to himself.

CO: You filed the complaint yesterday with the Police Ethics Commission. Why is that? What is it that you want to happen now?

TW: We just felt right from the get go that it was off -- them not giving us access to the body. Them waiting so long to tell us the information. And even with the BEI you know when they came I was like yeah this is great -- you know it's a new body that we have here in Quebec, they are an independent body but that they depend on police services to investigate and things -- they depend on the police services to advise them when there's an incident. And I wasn't getting any information from them. I kept asking them you know where Riley was shot -- and they said that any information that they would give me would hinder or you know compromise the investigation. And I'm hoping with this complaint that I'm doing -- it's not a civil action, I'm not looking to get money -- I'm looking to have an organization that's objective and they can ask for things to happen and they can make recommendations to have better training. My bottom line is that we need to train the police better.

CO: Ms. Wing I do hope you get answers to this. It must be just awful not to know everything you can about your son's death. And I appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

TW: Well thank you for having me. Thanks bye bye.

CO: Bye bye.

JD: Tracy Wing is the mother of Riley Fairholm, a 17-year-old who was killed by the Surete du Quebec in July. We reached Ms. Wing in Lac-Brome. The Surete says the case is now the responsibility of the independent investigations bureau and has refused to comment. That BEI investigation is ongoing.

[Music]

Clark Griswold dummy

Guest: Chris Heerlein

JD: Chris Heerlein was just trying to have some fun with his Christmas decorations this year by paying homage to Clark Griswold -- the hapless dad character in the 1989 classic 'National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation' played of course by Chevy Chase. But after some confusion Mr. Heerlein, who lives in Austin, Texas, has had to put up a somewhat ominous sign in front of his holiday display. It reads "Clark Griswold is part of our Christmas display. Please don't call 911." We reach Chris Heerlein in Austin.

CO: Chris first of all can you just describe the Christmas display you've got up on your front lawn?

CHRIS HEERLEIN: Clark W. Griswold is hanging from the rafters of my two story home in Balcones Country Club. And when we draped him over the rooftop my wife looked at me and said 'you need to put a sign up because people are going to think that's real.' And I said 'it's a dummy, get out here. Nobody's going think it's real.' The thing went up 24 hours -- and we had the fire department and police on the doorstep.

CO: I mean so you talk about Clark Griswold hanging from the rafters and this is of course from 'National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.' What else is there? What is it that makes it so convincing in that display?

CH: Well you know we scoured thrift stores across Austin to nail the Clark Griswold outfit. I mean it's like to the movie identical -- dad shoes and all. And also we got a ladder -- it was positioned where it was hanging off the pillar. We had a thing like literally a cable tied to the pillar. And then you know lights draping down over the ladder and everything else. I think the reason that this good Samaritan came to the rescue is just -- I mean it really does look life-size and like somebody is hanging on for dear life. And when this guy came to the rescue -- I mean I don't know have you seen the footage but he about took the pillar off the home. I mean he was not going to quit. He ripped that thing right off and was trying to get it to the man's aid.

CO: For those who haven't seen that security camera footage just describe what happens.

CH: Well a gentleman slammed on his brakes driving down the road, open the door, and ran to the house. You can hear him running up. 'Oh Lord Jesus. Hold on sir. Please hold on.' He rips the ladder off and then he's got it positioned where -- the latter is not tall enough to hit his feet but he goes, 'can you reach it? Can you reach it?' And then he gets no response so he runs back out to the street where he's been backing up traffic and screams for help and calls 911. He said he was looking up and talking to him but he wasn't saying nothing. [Laughs]

CO: And didn't he clue in at that point? Why did he still not realize that he was talking to a dummy?

CH: Well I asked him the same question. He tried to blame it on the fact that it was a foggy morning -- I don't know. But I will tell you this, out of the thousands of people that drive by my house every week he's the only one that took time to stop.

CO: His wife said this was a case of a dummy trying to help a dummy. Is that fair?

CH: I don't think that's fair. He's a veteran and I think his military days kicked in and he told me you know I don't care who it is. I don't care about the colour of your skin -- if someone is in need, I'll help them. And so in my book he's a hero. I just feel bad that we almost gave him a heart attack. We gave him a gift card to apologize and had him by the house to say hello. We had a good laugh on it. But I think you know this time of year it's just nice to see people helping people in a day and age where there's so much political divide and everything else.

CO: What happened after he called 911?

CH: Police showed up. I was out of town. My nanny answered the door, she didn't know what the heck was going on. And she blamed it on the homeowner and said he'd be back tomorrow, so they got a good chuckle out of it.

CO: And this man we're talking about, this is Alfred Norwood Jr. right?

CH: Yep.

CO: What was the gift you gave him?

CH: Well I wanted to give him a Jelly of the Month Club just because that was Clark Griswold's bonus in the movie. My wife wasn't down with that. So we gave him a gift card to get some groceries during the holidays.

CO: Has he forgiven you for giving him the scare of a lifetime?

CH: I think he has forgiven me. We had him by for hot cocoa and we had a good laugh.

CO: Now what about your wife's suggestion that you should put a sign up -- have you done that?

CH: We've done that. I should have taken her advice from the top when she told me to do it when we were hanging it. But hey we wouldn't have this story all over the world right now if I had.

CO: And what does this sign say?

CH: Clark Griswold is part of our Christmas display. Please don't call 911.

CO: [Laughs] Chris it's a great story. I appreciate you telling it to us. Thanks.

CH: Pleasure.

CO: Take care bye.

JD: Chris Heerlein is the owner of a home with a perhaps too realistic Christmas display of Clark Griswold hanging from the roof. We reached Mr. Heerlein in Austin. And to see just how realistic this 'National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation' scene is check out our website.

[Music]

Listener response: Canadians share their grisly stories of getting their tongues stuck to frozen stuff

JD: You know what, you probably shouldn't lick a frozen pole. But we know it is just so tempting isn't it? Like in the case of a young boy from Sandwich, Illinois. We told you that story last night. After watching the holiday classic 'A Christmas Story' with its powerful scene where tongue meets pole -- Spencer Kline decided to try it himself. After hearing that story we took a pole poll and you responded.

CO: Listener Anne Kern in Stouffville, Ontario sent us an email. She writes: "We had a metal swing set in our backyard when I was a kid in the 1960s. My elder brother, one cold winter day, said 'doesn't that icicle on the screen look good?' As a lover of rooftop icicles I responded, 'why yes.' He said, 'well you can't break it off but we could lick it.' Needless to say I did. He didn't. But he did run away laughing as I, a 6-year-old, stood bent over with my tongue stuck to the swing wondering what do I do now."

JD: Indeed. And Kellas Campbell tweeted: "I used to work at an aerospace research company and my boss pointed out to a quiet older man and said he'd been working with a cryogenic tank all by himself for 20 years when one day he licked it. Luckily a security guard came by and they turned it off so he could be freed."

CO: [Chuckles] And for all of you who blame that classic scene from 'A Christmas Story' for your pole licking woes -- we may have found the culprit. Gayle Grindahl commented on Facebook, "True fact: My cousin worked on the set of this movie and during a meeting one day she told the story about a friend of hers who stuck his tongue on a pole. The next day it was in the script."

JD: Talkback also weighed in.

SOUNDCLIP

LIANE DE LOTBINIERE: Hello everybody. My name's Liane de Lotbiniere. I just thought of my dear aunt June. Imagine dead of winter Montreal -- they're all outside playing and the oldest two decide they're going to run in the house and lock out the little one. And so aunt June decides she's going to yell at them through the mail slot which is you know a metal mail slot. And she got her lips caught on the mail slot. And my mom who liked to taunt her and torment her -- as aunt June trying to mouth 'let me in. Let me in.' My mom decided to be funny pants and make the door open. The rest is history. I will leave you with that thought but aunt June is alive today to tell her story and ridicule her elder siblings. Okay thanks so much for the laugh. Take care.

SARAH ABBOTT: Hi Carol and Jeff. My name is Sarah Abbott. I'm calling you from Regina. So I was listening to the show tonight and your story of the boy who stuck his tongue on the pole reminded me of a story that my father told me. And he was in Montreal and he went over to his friend's house and he rang the doorbell and then he stuck his tongue on the door handle. Turned out they weren't there. So he had to remove his tongue himself. Probably, he was there for about five minutes he thinks -- maybe more. He's 83 now and he said that he remembers it like it was yesterday. Anyway love the show. Thanks. Bye.

CO: [Laughs] Oh no -- on the doorbell. Alright. Well finally we're going to leave you with Mark Fodor from Budapest originally from Montreal. He writes: "my worst metal-skin-ice-rip story was when I was studying at University of Guelph. I used one of those metal "U-locks" to lock my bike. In winter sometimes the lock's keyhole would freeze -- defrosting it was easy enough though, blow into the keyhole for a few seconds and presto. It became so routine that once in a cold snap, I put my lips around the bike lock's a metal keyhole -- I blew and hoisted my head back leaving the outer layers of my lips behind and what probably looked like the worst case of chapped lips anyone has ever seen.

JD: Thank you Mark and everyone else for sharing. If you want to hear our interview with Scott Schwartz the 'tongue-on-metal' actor in 'A Christmas Story' check out our website cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Part 2: A Quebecois literary award and Amazon

Literary Prize Amazon

Guest: Dominique Fortier

JD: Le Prix litteraire des collegiens du Quebec. Brought to you by... Amazon. To those nominated for that prestigious Quebec literary award this year that just didn't sound right. And so the finalists wrote an open letter published in Le Devoir decrying the online retailer's sponsorship. Now the organizers have announced the prize will go forward without Amazon's contribution. Dominique Fortier is one of those finalists. We reached Ms. Fortier in Montreal.

CO: Dominique why object to Amazon sponsoring this prize that you might win?

DOMINIQUE FORTIER: [Chuckles] The fact that I might win it has very little bearing on what I feel about the Amazon sponsoring such a prize. And Le Prix litteraire des collegiens is not like any literary prize. It's very special. The winning book is chosen by dozens of students that get to discuss books and literature for a whole semester and then choose the books they like most. So I think it just shouldn't be sponsored by Amazon.

CO: Why not? What's wrong with that?

DF: Well a few things. In Quebec we have quite a fragile ecosystem I would say -- we call it chaine de livre which means literally the book chain in which every actor is very important -- from the author, to the publishers, to the distributors, to the booksellers. And we have many independent booksellers that do a terrific job of defending our works and we need them really as much as they need us. And Amazon is sort of a trap to them for a couple of reasons: one of which is they are able to offer books at a discount that local booksellers just cannot compete with. And also they have this huge distribution system that they are sort of killing the local businesses. And we as Quebec authors we really depend on local bookshops.

CO: How did you find out that Amazon was a sponsor of the prize?

DF: It was a surprise. It wasn't a good surprise. All the five authors found out at the same time during the press conference actually. We had known for a few weeks that our books had been chosen and everyone was very happy and so we gathered and there were journalists and little canopies to eat. And then they did that press conference and said 'oh by the way this year the sponsor is Amazon.' And everyone was sort of taken by surprise by it.

CO: Was it the sole sponsor?

DF: It was the major sponsor. There are few others. And Le Prix litteraire des collegiens is also mostly a family business. It's organized by la Fondation Bourgie which is a private foundation which as founded about 15 years ago and still today is the principal sponsor and organizer. It's a pretty expensive prize I think because they actually purchase all the books and give them to the students to read. So that's why they felt that they needed the help of Amazon this year.

CO: Does that offset the effect that Amazon has on the book selling -- the one you described is one that booksellers not just in Quebec but I understand it's a very fragile ecosystem for books in Quebec -- but elsewhere it's the same throughout Canada. Amazon appears to be trying to offset that by these kinds of sponsorships. In other places we know Amazon Canada First Novel Award is a prize that they give to promote first novelists. So they appear to be putting sums of money back into that system. Does that offset it at all?

DF: I think for this prize that it's a bit of a particular case because as I was saying it is a price that aimed at 17-18 year old kids that are -- for many of them discovering Quebec literature maybe for the first time. So if Amazon wants to create prizes and call them 'The Great Amazon Prizes' I think that's fine and no one will object to it. But this is a bit different I think.

CO: So you think that if young people associate the books with Amazon they won't bother finding the bookstores -- at their local bookstore?

DF: Well that's a real possibility. And also the booksellers -- if the prize is the Amazon logo everywhere on it, they don't really want to have the books in their own stores. I can sort of understand that actually.

CO: What kind of reaction have you had in Quebec to not just you but everyone on the list for this prize, the short list, they've all signed together -- this protest? How is the public responding? How are other authors responding?

DF: It's been pretty amazing actually because everyone spoke with one voice. Not only the five authors -- our publishers very early also got behind us as well as the Association of Booksellers, the authors association, as well as teachers and the students. And everyone on one hand recognized the importance of the prize but also everyone was saying that that doesn't work -- that doesn't work with Amazon as the major sponsor so let's just try and find solutions.

CO: And well they have enough money to distribute the books and to give the price without Amazon's support?

DF: Yes they will actually. They decided they were going forward with this year's edition with only the help of the foundation for this year. And that for the next editions they are going to try and find support within the -- and quite a few people I think have actually come forward and said okay we would be willing to help.

CO: Do you think that if these prizes -- the Amazon Canada First Novel Award is 40-thousand dollars. You're going to get it, well whoever wins, will get 5-thousand dollars -- it is also a lot of money distributing the books. But I mean Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. It's an enormously profitable company, Amazon. Do you think that if they wanted to invest in the arts and invest in books that they should be giving larger sums of money in order to get the goodwill they seem to be craving?

DF: That's a really good question. Have you talked to them?

CO: [Laughs] Alright I'm sure Jeff Bezos is listening to this show and we'll put that idea in his ear. Dominique it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

DF: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

DF: Bye bye.

JD: Dominique Fortier is the author of 'Les villes de papier' and a finalist for Le Prix litteraire des collegiens du Quebec. We reached Ms. Fortier In Montreal.

[Music]

Baby It’s Cold Outside

JD: It is a tune that is played on the radio for more than 60 years, but apparently it really can't stay. "Baby It's Cold Outside" will not be played inside as much this holiday season. Radio stations including CBC and Corus here in Canada have pulled the tune from their playlists because of objections over the lyrics. Here's a bit of "Baby It's Cold Outside" if you need a reminder about how it goes.

SOUNDCLIP

[Song: Baby It's Cold Outside]

JD: It is that part where the woman wonders what's in this drink that has some people upset. Sophie Milman is not among them. Earlier today the international jazz vocalist spoke to CBC Toronto host Matt Galloway about why we ought to say "no no no" to a ban.

SOUNDCLIP

SOPHIE MILMAN: When I read the lyrics I interpret it completely differently. So I realize that there is that problematic line about 'hey what's in this drink?' which in 1950s can be attributed to her sort of excusing her own flirtatious and behavior and her desire as 'oh you know is this drink a little too strong.' But the rest of the lyrics from the beginning to the end -- I don't see it as an unrelenting man, an abusive man, pursuing a woman. I see it sort of as a playful repartee where the only thing holding her back from staying the night is the fact that she's afraid of social judgment -- she's afraid of what her mother will think, her father will think. She wants to be there but she's afraid of what the neighbours will think. Her sister will think. Her brother will think.

MATT GALLOWAY: So that is interesting because a lot of the focus has been on the relationship such as it is in the song that's being portrayed between the man and the woman. People have described -- in the language of the day as far as even saying that this is like a 'rapey song.'

SM: I've heard that, except if you read the lyrics "I ought to say no, no, no sir at least I'm going to say that I tried." That doesn't sound like a woman who doesn't want to be there. I don't take away from the fact that some songs are problematic. Some songs in the history of the musical canon have terribly racist undertones --some theatrical works have terrible racist and sexist and abusive undertones. But in this particular case I really really don't see it. She's afraid of judgment. She's afraid of being seen as slutty or naughty and is fighting her own desires. The emphasis seems to be misplaced when it comes to taking out all of you know the anger and frustration of 'MeToo' in relation to music and the arts on this particular song.

JD: That was jazz vocalist Sophie Milman speaking to 'Metro Morning' host Matt Galloway today on CBC Toronto.

[Music]

Cave painting missing fingers study

Guest: Brea McCauley

JD: In rock and cave art around the world, handprints are kind of a universal motif used by our ancient ancestors. But you may have noticed that many of those images of hands are missing fingers, scientists definitely noticed. And for years the consensus was "well if you were fighting to survive in the Upper Paleolithic era then you weren't going to make it out with all 10 digits." Seemed like a fair assumption. But now a new study by researchers at Simon Fraser University suggests that maybe all those missing digits weren't just due to the harsh elements and physical scraps. Brea McCauley is the lead author of the study. And we reached her in New Westminster, B.C.

CO: Ms. McCauley how often do researchers find images of hands without the digits in them?

BREA MCCAULEY: There are a number of these cases all across the globe but we focus on these incomplete hand images in Europe. And so we find them at five sites in France and two sites in Spain. And at these site there are hundreds of these hand images that seem to be missing digits.

CO: Do you know anything about whose hands they are? Are they men, women, children? Do you know from the size or anything who they are?

BM: So there has been a bit of research done in the 70s that did look at the size and all these different aspects of them and they suggested that they were adults, [inaudible] down through infants, that were creating these and they would have been both men and women.

CO: And there are missing digits in all these -- the hands of whether they're children or adults?

BM: Yes there is. Yeah.

CO: What do you and your fellow researchers think of that? What do you think is the cause of these hands that have missing fingers in the cave art?

BM: So we looked at more modern societies -- kind of societies from the more recent past. And we looked at those groups that have these types of finger amputation practices. Why would these fingers be missing? And so we found 121 different groups that would engage in these types of finger amputation practices. And when we compared that to these incomplete hand images in Europe, we suggest that there are kind of two main reasons why people might have been missing fingers and these might have been for a mourning purpose or for a sacrificial reason. Soe mourning would be if a family member dies you might cut off a portion of your finger in an act of extreme grief. And sacrificial reasons might be to cut off a portion of your finger to appeal to some kind of supernatural power or to some deity. And so when we just look at the hand the images themselves we can kind of narrow it down to those two potential ideas but we realize that these cave art sites have been interpreted to be spiritual environments and that they would be more religious in nature. And so given that we thought that the most plausible explanation for why people might have been removing their fingers during this period would be for sacrificial reasons.

CO: We are talking Stone Age right?

BM: Yeah 25,000 years ago.

CO: 25,000 years ago. Okay so you identified other societies or groups of people -- humans in that time who had these rituals, so do you find that hand prints in caves and other places where they don't have those rituals are they missing fingers as well?

BM: We don't see like all across Europe these hand images with missing fingers. We do have a lot of sites that have hand images in them but we only find these seven sites in France and Spain that have it where they're missing digits. And so that was another one of the reasons why we thought this might be some form of more ritual practice as opposed to maybe people just getting into accidents or frostbite because if it was one of those reasons we would expect that you would see these incomplete hand images more widespread across Europe.

CO: But given I mean what life must have been like 25,000 years ago -- hard scrabble to say the least, living in a cave. I mean the likelihood of losing a few digits, chopping wood is pretty high right?

BM: We would think so. But we actually don't know. We don't have that kind of information available to us. That's something that we want to look into is how frequently do people actually lose fingers due to frostbite or due to different kinds of accidents. The question that really strikes in my mind is why don't we find these incomplete handprints further across Europe.

CO: But wouldn't also to amputate fingers, remove them, for whatever reason would handicap anyone who lost digits -- and when you're using your hands as much as these humans would have been using them and how important they are, I mean would that have maybe been a punishment or this is not something they would have done lightly right?

BM: It is definitely something that is costly and so something that you wouldn't do lightly -- super lightly like you were saying. But we have evidence where people would have cut off portions of four of their fingers and only left there thumbs intact and were still able to do their traditional farming activities and use the digging sticks to toil the land and things like that. This is an area that has quite good healing power and so would heal over fairly well most of the time. So it's costly enough that it really shows you know your commitment, how upset you are over a family member's death without potentially hindering your own survival.

CH: And why would cutting digits off, cutting fingers off, be of such significance? What would that mean? What would that signify?

BM: Because it's so visible. When you cut off a finger, everyone can see your hands. Everyone knows that this is something that you've done. And there's been studies that have suggested that these types of painful rituals or negatively-emotionally-arousing rituals can really bind communities together.

CO: How convinced this is the reason why those digits are missing in the handprints?

BM: I'm not going to say it's a slam dunk case or anything like that. Our research really was exploratory in nature -- asking the question of if these hand prints are missing fingers, what are some potential reasons? And what we can now do is jump off and research this idea in a little bit more seriousness given what we know about the patchiness of the distribution of these handprints across Europe and some of the evidence that suggests that people weren't simply bending their fingers over -- that they are missing fingers. I think that it's a valid hypothesis.

CO: Okay interesting work. Ms. McCauley thank you.

BM: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

JD: Brea McCauley is a masters student at Simon Fraser University. We reached her in New Westminster, B.C.

[Music]

Martin Dorey

SOUNDCLIP

MARTIN DOREY: We've got a long long long way to go. We really really have. But you know what? This is my last slide, we are going to have a very very very good go at it. Thank you.

[Applause]

JD: That was British surfer and activist Martin Dorey concluding a Ted X talk in 2016. A few years earlier, horrified by all the plastic that he had seen washed up everywhere, he had created something called the "2-Minute Beach Clean" movement. And he estimates that people in that movement have cleaned up a hundred and thirty tons of waste plastic. So it was successful. Well that's how he wound up on stage with one of those little headset microphones clicking through slides of plastic garbage on beaches. And it is also how he got a book deal. Mr. Dorey's latest book is called "No. More. Plastic." And yes there is a period after every word. And that is how you know he is both with it and serious. And that short book is already getting rave reviews from people who say that it has given them new ideas on simple ways to reduce plastic waste. But there is someone who has not read the book or seen that Ted X talk -- and that someone is someone at a book distribution company in the U.S. -- someone who has been very carefully and yet somewhat carelessly shrink wrapping every single copy of "No. More. Plastic." for the American market in... you know what. This is disappointing to the publisher Penguin Books. A spokesperson said "We worked very hard to ensure our book was environmentally friendly at every stage of the book process." It is more disappointing to the author Martin Dorey who said "The point is that this book is about no more plastic and some idiot shrink wrapped it in plastic without thinking."

[Music]

Remembering George H.W. Bush

JD: Today world leaders, former U.S. presidents, colleagues, and family, gathered at the Washington National Cathedral for the funeral of George H.W. Bush. The former U.S. president died last week at the age of 94. In a eulogy, an emotional George W. Bush remembered him as "the best father a son or daughter could have." Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney also spoke. Here's some of what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

BRIAN MULRONEY: 50 or 100 years from now as historians review the accomplishments and the context of all who have served as president, I believe it will be said that in the life of this country, the United States which is in my judgment the greatest democratic republic that God has ever placed in the face of this Earth -- I believe it will be said that no occupant of the Oval Office was more courageous, more principled, and more honorable, then George Herbert Walker Bush. George Bush was a man of high accomplishment. He also had a delightful sense of humor and was a lot of fun. Had his first NATO meeting in Brussels as the new American president -- he sat opposite to me actually that day. George was taking copious notes as the heads of government spoke. We were all limited in time. But you know it's very flattering to have the President of the United States take notes as you speak. And even someone as modest as me... [Laughter] threw In a few more adjectives here and there to extend the pleasure of the experience. After President Mitterrand, Prime Minister Thatcher, and Chancellor Kohl had spoken, it was the turn of the Prime Minister of Iceland -- who as President Bush continued to write, went on. And on. [Laughter] And on. And on. Ending only when the secretary general of NATO firmly declared a coffee break. George put down his pen, walked over to me, and said 'Brian I've just learned the fundamental principle of international affairs.' I said, 'what's that George?' He said 'the smaller the country, the longer the speech.' [Laughter]

JD: That was former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney speaking at the state funeral for George H.W. Bush today in Washington.

[Music]

Matthew Hedges

JD: It has now been about a week since Matthew Hedges returned home to the United Kingdom after being released by the United Arab Emirates. Now he has spoken publicly about what his time in detention in that country was like -- after of course he was arrested and accused of espionage. We've told Mr. Hedges' story on this program. He is a Ph.D. student who says that he was doing research in the UAE. A court there sentenced him to life in jail, accusing him of spying for the UK government. Even after pardoning him last week officials there stood by their claim that he was indeed a spy. In an interview this morning with the BBC Today programme Mr. Hedges described what his time in detention was like. Here's part of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

MATTHEW HEDGES: Whenever I had to go to the bathroom or on occasion use the shower, I would be escorted by four guards. And I would wear ankle cuffs whenever I was transported between different premises. I was blindfolded and handcuffed.

REPORTER: And you had to stand up for quite a long time?

MH: Yes so one of the days when I had tried to, again, tell the truth to the interrogators, their reaction was to make me stand for the day wearing ankle cuffs.

REPORTER: All day?

MH: Yes.

REPORTER: How did you feel? I mean how did you manage that? It must have been exhausting.

MH: It was. It's mentally exhausting. Physically, the adrenaline takes over. And so obviously afterwards I was pretty sore -- but it's how it made you feel mentally.

REPORTER: Did you feel that you were being tortured?

MH: Psychologically correct. Yes it felt like it.

REPORTER: Let's just go back a little to when you were first arrested and you had your first interview with them and they said that you admitted to spying.

MH: On the first interview?

REPORTER: When you had a subsequent interview -- after you'd had your first interview and then subsequently they claimed that you had admitted that...

MH: This was after a week?

REPORTER: Indeed.

MH: So I didn't have a lawyer present. I had asked for a lawyer on multiple occasions. I had denied continuously for over a week that I didn't work for the UK government in any single capacity -- that I was just simply a Ph.D. student and I had a job back down in Exeter. So they started to increase the psychological pressure. And I had panic attacks for a few days previous. And so when this pressure increased, increased, increased, I couldn't take it anymore. And I wasn't sure if they just wanted me to admit it, just sign a piece of paper, and you know they have what they want and they'll just let me go. And they even said if you admit things and you tell us what we want to hear, we'll make it easier for you. So at that point I had no other option. They didn't believe what I was trying to tell them. So there was nothing else I could do.

JD: That was Ph.D. student Matthew Hedges speaking with the BBC's John Humphrys. And in that same interview Mr. Hedges said that while in the UAE he was "propositioned by officials to steal documentation from the UK Foreign Office."

[Music]

Part 3: Newfoundland musician plans to shave off his beard to raise money for a local family in need

Manitoba consent

Guest: Bonnie Bricker

JD: Bonnie Bricker says that a new law in Manitoba could have helped her son when he needed it most. Yesterday the province introduced legislation that would make it easier for doctors to break patient confidentiality to warn family members that their loved ones may be at risk. In 2015 Ms. Bricker's son, Reid, killed himself after he was discharged from the hospital alone in the middle of the night. We reached Bonnie Bricker in Winnipeg.

CO: Bonnie you were at the Manitoba legislature to see this law introduced, what was that like for you?

BONNIE BRICKER: Well you know it was a bittersweet moment. Of course we were very happy to have the law introduced because that's what we've been fighting for three years. It was somewhat ironic that the hard work that we've done over these years came to fruition but wouldn't be able to help our son. But we're quite content to know that we're on the right path. This is the first step and it will help people going forward.

CO: Can you just give us some ideas as to what kinds of cases doctors would able to go against their patients wishes and inform the family members that they might be in trouble?

BB: Well first of all let's clarify that it's not set for family members specifically -- it's for the circle of care and whatever that might look like for that individual. It might be a spouse or a best friend or a counsellor or a peer support worker or something like that -- so it's not necessarily for the family, although it could be. And it would be in very serious circumstances. So you know in emergent circumstance where the individual presented with suicidal ideation or had made an attempt on their life that harmed them or was in such an agitated state that they would harm somebody else in the process. So it would be something like that. This won't be anything to be taken lightly and for a doctor to go 'oh well it doesn't matter if you don't give me consent I'm going to phone your family.' There will be some criteria, some checkmarks, that they'll have to go through a process before they make that decision -- I won't be made lightly.

CO: So what does it free the health workers to do? I mean if something is life threatening then presumably they feel a temptation or a need to inform the circle of care about that, so what does this free them to do?

BB: Well they haven't been able to. So let's take Reid's case specifically because I can speak to that. Reid presented with suicidal ideation, the police had brought him in because they felt very strongly that he would make another attempt on his life that evening. They brought him in on a form which he couldn't leave voluntarily -- he'd have to be signed out by the emergency doctor. And when the doctor or if the doctor -- I'm saying 'if' because I didn't speak to the doctor personally -- if he said 'listen you know we really need to inform your family. You need their support.' And Reid said 'no I don't want you to' -- as an adult he has that right at this moment in time. And the doctor did not inform us. So we did not know that they let Reid go that night. So in that incident, in that case, in that scenario, that doctor could have said 'listen Reid I can see that you're not feeling well. You've made a couple attempts on your life. You tried again today. I'm not confident that you're going to survive the weekend. We need to call your parents or someone in your circle of care. You can decide who it is.' Right at the moment, before this bill was introduced yesterday, the doctor did not have that opportunity -- he or she could absolutely not go against that individual unless there was an immediate threat. And they think well you know at the moment it's not a serious or immediate threat to his life or someone else...

CO: But if it had been, there are some circumstances in which the doctors would not have released him right?

BB: Well they would have been going against the personal health information act and that makes them vulnerable to punitive actions. And I don't blame them. Most health professionals, medical health professionals, are able to quote certain sections of the personal health information act as it affects them negatively because they need to know what lines they can't cross and what will happen to them if they do. And they're really quite devastating -- some of those consequences. So I appreciate where they're coming from and where they've been. But can you imagine being that doctor that night and seeing Reid's picture in the newspaper the next day as a missing person and knowing that you were the last person to talk to him. It's devastating. And he really didn't have another choice.

CO: You don't blame the doctor for what happened to your son.

BB: Not specifically no. It was a set of circumstances so -- you know Reid really knew how to play the game, I'm absolutely confident that he answered the [inaudible] questions and gave them the answers that they wanted to hear.

CO: What would you have done if doctors had been able to warn you that...

BB: I would have come down there immediately I wouldn't have let my son walk out in the middle of the night by himself -- especially suffering with suicidal ideation. Every first year psych student knows that the worst thing for a person who is suffering with suicidal thoughts is to be alone by themselves with that hopeless feeling. If the doctor had phoned me and said 'Mrs. Bricker I want to ask you some questions about your son Reid.' Not tell me where he's calling from, that he is calling from the emergency because Reid has been brought in there, any of that. Even though he knew that was the case, he couldn't say that. But had he even asked me I would have given him the backstory, I would have given him a much fuller picture on the situation that Reid was in. Having said that this particular bill will give them strong language and space to make alternate choices.

CO: Bonnie I'm glad that you were able to make such a difference for others and I really appreciate you telling us the story of your son. Thank you.

BB: Alright. Take care.

JD: We reached Bonnie Bricker in Winnipeg.

[Music]

Liam Fox

JD: It was very difficult for Theresa May to come to a Brexit agreement with the European Union. But compared to getting her own parliament onboard it was child's play. Next Tuesday MPs will vote on the British prime minister's withdrawal agreement with the EU and it is extremely doubtful if it will pass parliament. Liam Fox is the country's international trade secretary. And in a Commons committee meeting he explained why he thinks the deal must be approved. Here is one of the questions for Mr. Fox today.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE: Is Brexit going as well as you imagined?

LIAM FOX: Ask me next Tuesday.

VOICE: And what will that be depended on next Tuesday?

LF: What we vote in the House of Commons.

VOICE: Which vote do you want?

LF: I want the government's deal to go through.

VOICE: And you said in first...

LF: Just to clarify that answer. I think that there is as I have written recently a real danger that the House of Commons which is a natural remain majority may attempt to steal Brexit from the British people -- which I think would be a democratic affront.

VOICE: On that you said on the first of Feb 2017 to this committee, we expect to get a good deal. Is the deal a good deal?

LF: If it wasn't a good deal I wouldn't be voting for it.

VOICE: So it is a good deal? What is no deal like? How would you characterize no deal? If it's deal or no deal -- I mean you are obviously a supporter of the deal as you said. What is no deal? How would you describe no deal?

LF: I would describe no deal was suboptimal -- but I do wonder whether following the passage of the amendment last night in the House of Commons that the House of Commons has any intention of allowing the no deal to happen.

VOICE: So no deal is suboptimal to what? To the deal or to the current situation?

LF: To the current deal.

VOICE: To the current deal.

LF: If leaving the European Union is better than staying in the European Union it might be.

VOICE: So your order of preference is the deal, no deal, on the status quo...

LF: My preference is the deal.

VOICE: And after that -- no deal -- status quo...

LF: I'm not going into a menu.

VOICE: That's very interesting because you might have to go into the menu. And if you do go into the menu I think you should maybe share with the committee -- would you prefer a no deal or no Brexit as Donald Tusk said.

LF: I prefer Brexit. I voted for Brexit. And I campaigned for Brexit. But I hope we do it in an orderly and transitional way.

JD: That was a British International Trade Secretary Liam Fox.

[Music]

Order in

JD: Some may say that cafeteria food is uninspiring and packed lunches are predictable. And so some may see why modern high school students are seeking modern day ways to rectify the lunchtime slump. But students at a couple of B.C. high schools are ordering so much food through online delivery apps that school administrators have had to ban or heavily restrict the use of said apps. Here is James Johnston, principal of Semiahmoo Secondary, speaking to the CBC's Rafferty Baker about the problem.

SOUNDCLIP

JAMES JOHNSTON: We hadn't noticed it a lot last year, but then in September and October we started noticing kind of more and more deliveries and they were coming at different times. You know they weren't coming just at lunch, they were coming just before lunch, after lunch. Even near the end of the day when kids were in class and that's when we started talking about this as a problem. You know we would have kids kind of walking to the front of the school when they're supposed to be in class. And we would have drivers coming to the office saying 'oh could you page this student or that student.' And we basically say no, we're in class right now so we don't do that.

RAFFERTY BAKER: Are they just saying I need to go to the bathroom and grabbing their delivery -- like how does it kind of play out usually?

JJ: Yeah most of them would say you know just ask their teacher if they could go to their locker or go to the washroom which is a pretty typical request. Some of our teachers would notice it was taking you know maybe 10 minutes for them to come back and some of the students would even come back with their food. As administrators were in the halls and we see students picking up their food and kind of going to the cafeteria quickly to eat it. And so pretty quickly we noticed that you know this was a problem, this was pulling kids out of class time. It's like anything in the world with apps and cell phones and a lot of our students having credit cards. There's really no filter built in here where you know traditionally you might -- well we have a full service cafeteria. We have a local businesses our students can walk to. So parents are probably aware of that. I'm not sure if all of our parents realise that you know with their kids having a credit card they can kind of have their own Skip The Dishes account -- and I don't know where the line is going to be drawn. You know for us it's not about limiting the choices of our kids. It's about the security of our building and really protecting the instructional time that we have.

JD: James Johnston is the principal of Semiahmoo Secondary in British Columbia. He was speaking to the CBC's Rafferty Baker. And here is what some of the students from that same school had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

VOICE 1: It wasn't a problem. I never noticed any kids leaving classes to get food.

VOICE 2: A lot of people do that -- they leave classes to go get their food, which is a huge problem.

VOICE 3: I just think it's outrageous that they are trying to regulate such things -- then comes down to eating.

JD: Those were some grade 11 and 12 students from a Semiahmoo Secondary speaking about the ban on deliveries from food ordering apps.

[Music]

Newfoundland beard bounty

Guest: Chris Andrews

JD: Any self-respecting and serious lead singer needs a trademark look, and for Shanneyganock's Chris Andrews that look is a big-beautiful-bushy beard. The Newfoundland musician has had facial hair since he could have facial hair. But now Mr. Andrews is putting a bounty of 80-thousand dollars on his mane. And if he can raise that much for a good cause he says, 'off it goes.' We reached Chris Andrews in Logy Bay, Newfoundland.

CO: Chris are you going to be able to recognize even yourself without a beard?

CHRIS ANDREWS: I'm not too sure [chuckles]. It will feel and look different for sure, no doubt about it.

CO: How long have you been wearing whiskers?

CA: Since I was around 18 years old I guess. Back when my band first started the guys we looked up to so much -- bands out of Newfoundland 'Ryan's Fancy' and 'Sons of Erin' the guys all have big beards. And we wanted to have big beards like those guys, so just sort of I guess I grew into it.

CO: At 18 did you have a big beard?

CA: Not bad. You know it didn't grow like it does now. But probably by the time I got to my early 20s it was a pretty loud big bushy beard.

CO: But you are just practically out of your childhood back when you had your [laughs] the first time you could have one -- you started shaving just shortly before that.

CA: Pretty much yeah. It is just something I don't know -- just one of those things -- my dad always had a big beard too so it was very familiar.

CO: For those who don't know what you look like, and that would seem strange, but tell us what the epic beard looks like?

CA: Oh I don't know, it all depends on who is looking at it I guess. Some people like it alot. But I'm sure people [inaudible]. I don't know what really is -- it is just me. But over the years people sort of by beard I guess and hair -- just part of the band and what we do I guess.

CO: So tell us what you're going to do? Why are you going to shave off your beard?

CA: Well I was approached by our local MHA -- provincial government about this young girl in a place called Flatrock, Newfoundland that has a condition called Rett syndrome. And with this syndrome she is unable to use her hands or walk or speak, but she totally understands everything and she's a very smart little girl. And this family is in desperate need of a wheelchair van. So I agreed to help out a little bit. And my band, Shanneyganock, to put up a concert and raise some money towards helping this cause. So we were getting ready to do the concert. We were invited to go meet Jess. And we went down and when we walked in, we met her parents first. She was in another room and they said now you know Jess doesn't normally smile and stuff so you know when she first meets people but you know she'll be fine. When myself and [inaudible] she lit this big smile up and there you go. She had me. [Chuckles]

CO: She stole your heart.

CA: She did indeed. And she's a lovely young girl and you know she deserves a little bit of help. But I'm going to try my best to see what I can do for her.

CO: So took your heart and now she's going to take your whiskers.

CA: [Laughs] Yeah well that's okay. In certain times it is alright to do things like that.

CO: You're not going to let it go easily though are you. You put an 80-thousand dollar bounty on this pile of old hair?

CA: Yes indeed, it wasn't too easy. But the thing is it is 80,000. We already have 30,000 raised prior to the GoFundMe account, so technically it's 50,000. But even if we don't get quite our whole 50,000 I'm sure that I will make sure the beard goes away.

CO: And you have a very specific amount of money on this because they need a van. Can you describe what it is that they need?

CA: Yes. I was really taken aback when I heard how much just an average wheelchair accessible vehicle costs these days. Just a run of the mill average you know with the parts needed IS 80,000 dollars. So you know that's a lot for a family you know that's working hard. You know not everybody can do that. So that's when the community decided to get involved and help this family. And you know [inaudible] you know the little girl needs to go to her doctor appointments, school. And you know actually be part of her family too and get to enjoy outings with the rest of her siblings and her parents.

CO: Because I guess it's getting harder on the parents. I mean she's a growing girl. There's a wheelchair, there is a lot of weight, and they can't lift her into the regular van anymore, is that right?

CA: Exactly. Her mom has really hurt her neck and back really bad -- and is not even able to lift her anymore. And of course her dad is working all the time also you know to keep the family going and stuff. So it's becoming more and more difficult to transport Jess and get her to the places she needs to go.

CO: So what will this allow Jess to do if she has this access to this kind of a vehicle?

CA: Well I'm hoping it's going to help her overall quality of life -- everything from her health to you know getting to enjoy life. And you know it's a beautiful little girl who is smart and knows everything going around her, it would be great if she would be able to get out and experience more and enjoy a bit more life.

CO: Alright now let's go [chuckles] the plan for shaving this thing off. What are you going to do?

CA: Traditionally over the last bunch of years my band has played in Flatrock and on a charity concert. Right. What I'll do is include -- so we will put it up on Facebook Live and we'll also do it at the concert so the people there will be able to see it also.

CO: You're going to be shaved onstage?

CA: Yes I am, in front of everybody.

CO: Aren't you going to feel a bit naked after that?

CA: Probably. Well I have to go sing a set then too so that's going to be very interesting to see how I feel. And even you know getting close to the mic and stuff you know -- it will be a different feeling for sure but I'm really looking forward to doing this and helping Jess out.

CO: And that Newfoundland winter is just about to set in, are you going to feel cold?

CA: Well the thing is -- let's just say I'm going on vacation so I only have the Newfoundland winter for a few hours after that concert -- I'm headed somewhere warm for a little bit so hopefully I'll be grown back in by the time I get back home.

CO: [Laughs] Okay well good on you Chris. Thanks so much.

CA: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

CA: Bye bye.

JD: We reached Chris Andrews in Logy Bay, Newfoundland.

December 5, 2018 Episode Transcript

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