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The AIH Transcript for March 14, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight…

CO: his expansive universe. A former student remembers Stephen Hawking, the cosmologist who reached beyond to understand our relationship with the stars stretching the limits of human life.

JD: Their truth was made more painful by that fiction. The parents of a murdered man sue Fox News accusing the network of fueling the conspiracy theory that claimed their son's death was political.

CO: Bearing the brunt. A Salvadoran court reduces the 30 year murder sentence of a woman who was convicted for the death of her own unborn child.

JD: Driven to despair. A Vancouver surgeon takes B.C. Public Auto insurer to court after a slow-down in getting his Ferrari back on the road leaves him feeling a little less than his super-cool car collecting self.

CO: Battle of nerves. A Kremlin adviser takes Theresa May to task after the U.K. Prime Minister sends 23 Russians back home in response to the poisoning of a former double agent.

JD: And…Taking his leaves. While the White House waves goodbye to Rex Tillerson, we chew over the state function wherein US President Donald Trump ordered his reluctant Secretary of State to gag down some limp salad. As It Happens: The Wednesday Edition. Radio that’s begging just lettuce explain.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Stephen Hawking Obit, El Salvador Abortion

Stephen Hawking Obit

Guest: Ray Laflamme

SOUNDCLIP

STEPHEN HAWKING: I am very aware of the preciousness of time. Seize the moment, act now. I have spent my life travelling across the universe inside my mind.

JD: The voice of cosmologist Stephen Hawking who died today at the age of 76. Professor Hawking had mused about this moment. He once said quote “I'm not afraid of it, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first.” And he ended up accomplishing more than most people dream of. In the 1960s he was given only a few years to live after being diagnosed with ALS. He would go on to shape our understanding of the universe. He helped us wrap our heads around such perplexing concepts as black holes. Ray Laflamme was one of Professor Hawking students at Cambridge. He is now a professor himself at the Institute of quantum computing. We reach Ray Laflamme in Waterloo, Ontario.

CO: Ray, I'm sorry to learn of Stephen Hawking's death. How are you remembering your old Cambridge professor today?

RAY LAFLAMME: It's a sad day, but one where I think and second thought we should celebrate and reflect on an incredible life. He was somebody with a brilliant mind, somebody who was inspiring, who inspired many, not only the scientific community, but of public in general and somebody with an incredible amount of stamina and a good sense of humour.

CO: And you know that because you knew him at Cambridge, you were just a young lad studying there when you first met Stephen Hawking. Do you remember your first impressions of him?

RL: Yes. I finished a course and then I got selected to be one of his Ph.D. students. And to me it was quite a surprise. So I had to go from the third floor to the first floor where his office was and I never thought that going down two step of stairs would be that hard. And I came in front of his office and I had to pinch myself to ensure myself that I was awake and there was not a dream. And I started to talk to him and I don't think I could put too many syllables together but he was very gracious very kind. He asked me what I was going to do during the summer, I was going to go back and see my parents in Quebec City and then I would come back. And he says ‘Here take these papers, read them when you have time and we'll talk science when you come back in October.’

CO: Wow. And so how do you think he picked you out? Did you think when you were called down that you were going to be told to get out of here you're no?

[LAUGHTER]

RL: I had no clue. I've never asked him the question of how and why he picked me instead of others. And from time to time I say to my friends ‘Oh probably they had a pile of files together, somebody tripped and my file ended at the top” — the importance of some randomness in life sometimes.

CO: Now this is before he became quite ill with ALS?

RL: No, after. He became very ill with ALS in the mid-1960s and he slowly got affected more and more and more. I met him first in 1984 and in the summer of ‘85 we were on a trip together with some other support staff in Geneva where he got really sick and he needed to have a tracheostomy and lost the ability to speak and moved from speaking with very distorted voice to using the computer to communicate.

CO: Because what you know of him was that not only was he incredibly intelligent and but he was also very funny and witty and loved to talk. What was it like for him and for all the people around him when he wasn't able to use that voice?

RL: We all needed a lot more patience. The computer was useful in one way, but it took a lot longer. He had only a switch on one hand which was choosing columns and rows on the computer to go and pick up a word in a dictionary, so it took a lot of time. So the humour took longer to come out but it always came out. A couple of summers ago, maybe three or four years ago, he came to Waterloo and went to visits SNOLAB in Sudbury, and when he came back the nurse who was with them said it was very scary to go down and see this SNOLAB which was like two miles down a mine and Stephen says, ‘I felt great. This was like freefall.’

[CHUCKLING]

RL: With a big grin on his face.

CO: And this relationship began in Cambridge when you were a young student, and you were actually, as I understand it, you challenged one of his theories. Tell us about that?

RL: He gave me a problem to solve and he had an idea about the arrow of time in the universe that it would reverse at some point, and my job was to take the math and prove that this was the correct idea. I tried to make it work and I couldn't make it work. Then I went to see him and he says the questions are a bit complicated, not to say the least, and he would say have you done the approximation correctly, or are you sure you've kind of followed the path the right way? And that would explain all of them and he would come back and criticize my work and then we'd go back and forth. Only after six to eight months we finally we convinced him that he had made a mistake and then that's when he realized. He said ‘Yeah, you guys are absolutely right, I made a mistake.’ And he was very gracious about it. And then you would write letters of recommendation for me saying “This Laflamme guy has proven me wrong.” Which was always a good thing.

CO: How did he affect you. What lasting effect did he have, that your encounters with him, working with him, how did that affect you?

RL: There's a part of his brilliant mind and this kind of scientific creativity which kind of has inspired me. But also somebody with stamina and his ability to go beyond being imprisoned by his body and keep going and making and wanting to communicate with people, he wanted to share his discoveries with people — somebody who will really enjoyed life, which when you first meet Stephen and see him in his wheelchair you would never imagine that somebody can enjoy life so much — and that is what is being left to me, this joy of life and enjoying every day.

CO: You know, so many things he’s said that were so wise and witty and funny, but at the same time, what will last is his intellect, his book, A Brief History of Time, which was an international bestseller. I mean, how can somebody who is writing and talking about black holes and quantum mechanics, what was the secret for him to be able to put that in language and comprehension that so many people could take in?

RL: So I wish I would know, because then I would follow the same path. Some people have said that because he was not able to get up and talk aloud, which is what most of us physicists do when we meet each other and go to conferences. He had to change because he couldn't say too many words, he used that time preciously to try to simplify his concepts and to try to connect with other people.

CO: I understand you knew that he was very concerned that his book The Brief History of Time wouldn't sell, was too complicated for people.

RL: I was a student when he wrote the book and he used the book to give a set of lectures in Cambridge. And one morning Stephen seemed to be in a very bad mood, and as a student of Stephen you would help him not only with doing science but you would help him in his daily tasks. So I turned around and I said “Stephen, what's wrong, you're not happy with anything that I do?” And he looked at me says “I'm nervous. I worry that there'll be nobody at the lecture hall for my lecture.” When we arrived there he was packed with people, people on the stairs, and then he had a big grin.

[CHUCKLING]

CO: And that big grin we know so well. And I understand that you gave Stephen Hawking a boomerang when he was visiting Canada. What was that all about?

RL: Well, as I mentioned earlier, I had my first project was to show that the arrow of time would not reverse and it would not come back to the same place. So when I finished my Ph.D. he gave me a copy of The Brief History of Time with a dedication from him saying to “You showed me that the arrow of time was not a boomerang. Thank you for your help. Stephen.” So when Stephen came then I got some boomerangs made and I gave one to him. and I said “Life is a circle and we're reconnecting again.”

CO: So life is a boomerang even if time isn't.

RL: Absolutely right.

CO: Ray, it's really lovely to speak with you about Stephen Hawking I appreciate it. And again, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

RL: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye-bye.

RL: Bye-bye.

JD: Ray LaFlamme teaches physics at the Institute for Quantum Computing. He's a former student of Stephen Hawking. Professor Hawking died today. He was 76 years old. And as Mr. LaFlamme mentioned in there, Stephen Hawking lost his ability to use his own voice in 1985 and spent the rest of his life communicating through a speech generating device. That did not stop him from delivering lectures all around the world. Here's an excerpt from one from 2015.

SOUNDCLIP

SH: One of the great revelations of the space age has been the perspective that has given humanity and ourselves. When we see the Earth from space we see ourselves as a whole. We see the unity and not the divisions. It is such a simple image with a compelling message: One planet one human race. We are here together and we need to live together with tolerance and respect. We must become global citizens. I have been enormously privileged, through my work, to be able to contribute to our understanding of the universe. But it would be an empty universe indeed if it were not for the people I love and who love me. We are all time travelers journeying together into the future. But let us work together to make that future a place we want to visit. Be brave, be determined, overcome the odds — it can be done.

JD: Stephen Hawking speaking at the World Economic Forum in 2015. The iconic theoretical physicist died today. He was 76 years old.

[Music: Somber Piano]

Student Walk-out

SOUNDCLIP

STUDENTS CHANTING: WE WANT CHANGE, WE WANT CHANGE!

JD: They do want change, and they want it now. Students across the United States walked out of school today protesting gun violence and demanding stiffer gun controls. The protests come a month after the mass shooting of Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High in Parkland, Florida. Students, teachers and some politicians walked outside for 17 minutes — one minute for each of the 17 people killed in that shooting. Here are some of their voices taken from demonstrations which happened across the country starting with Porter Hughes, a 17-year-old who spoke during a walkout in Michigan.

SOUNDCLIP

PORTER HUGHES: To all those affected, we are with you, we hear you and we will always be there for you. It is our time as a generation to stand up and revamp the status quo. For too long we've allowed ourselves to be hushed by the loud roar of the debate and vexation currently flowing through our national stage. It is our turn to stand up to do what is right.

STUDENT PROTESTER: want to take a moment to say thank you to the national legislators showing their solidarity today.

NANCY PELOSI: We are all moved by your eloquence and your fearless insistence on action to prevent Gun Violence. Thank you for bringing your urgency to this fight, to the doorstep of the capital of the United States.

ARIELLE GEISMAR: We will not give up this fight, and we will not back down, because we are tired of fearing for our lives in the place that we should have been safe in. We should have been safe! T oour allies in Parkland, we love you and will stand with you. To students across the nation, we will not stop fighting for you. We will be the generation to end gun violence. We are everywhere and we have had enough. Enough is enough.

STUDENTS CHANTING: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

JD: That was 16-year-old Arielle Geismar speaking at a school in New York. Before her you heard House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi at the congressional Solidarity walkout in Washington D.C. Across the United States today protesters called for stronger gun control measures.

El Salvador Abortion

Guest: Kathy Boukher

JD: Maira Figueroa has been in prison for almost 15 years. The Salvadoran woman was convicted of aggravated murder in 2003 and sentenced to 30 years in prison. But this week El Salvador’s Supreme Court ruled that her sentence was excessive. That is because the victim named in the case was Ms. Figueroa's own stillborn child. El Salvador has some of the most restrictive anti-abortion laws in the world. Dozens of women have been convicted after having miscarriages. Kathy Boukher is with the Citizens Group for the Decriminalization of Abortion. She advocated for Ms. Figueroa's release. We reached Ms. Boukher in the capital of El Salvador, San Salvador.

CO: Ms. Boukher, you're now with Myra Figueroa. How is she doing now that she is out of prison?

KATHY BOUKHER: She's doing very well. She's happy, she's much more relaxed, she's looking forward to going home today to where her family lives and re-establishing her life. She's met up with several of her friends here, other women who were in prison with her who've also been released over time. She's very happy. She was 19 when she was convicted and sent to prison.

CO: And it's been 15 years that she has been in prison.

KB: Yes.

CO: Can you can you tell us what landed her in prison, what happened that day?

KB: Well, what happened with Maira was something that's happened with many women. She was pregnant and she was working as a domestic employee in the home of a family and she gave birth in the home or had an obstetric emergency in the home. And unfortunately that the fetus or the baby did not survive due to causes that we don't know, but not due to any action on her part. And her employer took her to a public hospital. And what happens much too frequently in public hospitals is that doctors see women who come in hemorrhaging, who have given birth and immediately accuse them of having provoked an abortion, which is 100 per cent illegal in El Salvador. And so she was accused of abortion but because her pregnancy was passed 20 weeks — that's the dividing line between calling it an abortion and calling it aggravated homicide. And so because she was almost full term she was accused and convicted of aggravated homicide.

CO: And what was the evidence?

KB: That's a really good question because there wasn't much. What has happened in many of these cases very similar to what happened with Maira, is that the fact that there was a woman who gave birth, that there was a fetus or a baby that unfortunately was deceased and the fact that there might be a DNA test to prove that she is indeed the mother, which no one is disputing — that that's almost in and of itself enough evidence. And under Salvadoran law the prosecutor's supposed to investigate both the evidence that would convict the person as well as the evidence that might exonerate a person — that almost never happens. And in this case, her version of the story was never heard in court, any real substantive, scientific evidence was never presented. But nevertheless she was convicted.

CO: And for Maira, what was it like to have gone through all this time in prison for this miscarriage?

KB: It's been extremely difficult for her. Obviously she's a person who's learned to make the best of it under really terrible conditions. There's not always enough food, there's not always enough clean water, the living conditions are extremely crowded. The prisons in El Salvador sometimes are at 900 per cent capacity, which means two or three women in a bed, some women sleeping on the floor. At times very derogatory treatment, particularly for women who have been convicted of these kinds of crimes, they're often very mistreated by the guards in the prison and sometimes by the other inmates, the other women.

CO: Why was her sentence now partially commuted?

KB: The citizen group for the decriminalization of abortion has been working for the last couple of years submitting the petitions to the Ministry of Justice and the Supreme Court to get the commuted as a way to get them out of prison. And the way that her decision was made was based on the fact that she has completed one half of her sentence, that she's had an impeccable record in terms of her conduct, which is she’s just a person who conducts herself well all the time — and based on that they decided to commute her sentence. The charges still stand, which is the unfortunate part, but she is no longer in prison which is what's extremely important.

CO: But she's still a convicted killer in the eyes of the law?

KB: Yes. Yes she is.

CO: How many are other — you mentioned many other women. How often does this happen?

KB: At this moment there are about 24 other women who are still in prison. There are about 18 others, that between 2006 and now, that citizen group has helped get released. And there may be more that we don't know about.

CO: And this is still going on, isn't it? We covered the story back in June of Evelyn Hernandez Cruz, who became pregnant after being raped and had a stillborn in her third trimester who's now serving 30 years. Is that sentence still ongoing?

KB: Yes. That is still ongoing. Her attorneys are in the process of trying to use various measures, different appeals and things to see what can be done. But it is very much still in process.

CO: How many of the others have possibly the same outcome, the same hope that Figueroa had?

KB: Well citizens group is submitting petitions for, as far as I know, all of the women who are still incarcerated — all of them are in-process, to the best of my knowledge.

CO: And even if they are released their convictions still stand?

KB: Yes, but the possibility exists that even if a woman has been released from prison, it's still possible to go through the process to get a new trial or to get a pardon. But the priority at this moment is just to get women out of jail. And that's what they have said they want, under whatever circumstances — get out of jail.

CO: Now that there are groups like yours and others who are representing these women could they have a different outcome if they had had representation, had a proper attorney?

KB: I think it's pretty clear that they would. Almost all of the women had what has been classified as very inadequate representation. Almost all had public defenders and obviously some public defenders do their best to do a really good job under extremely difficult circumstances and lack of resources, and others, at least what it appears, is that they are not terribly concerned about defending the rights of their client.

CO: I know that you and other groups are also trying to change the law and in El Salvador to make it possible for women to get a legal abortion. Is that possibly going to happen? What stage are you at there?

KB: Well, there are proposals that are in the legislature right now that are being discussed and considered. And there's hope over the next few weeks we have a window open basically between now and the 30th of April, because the 1st of May is when new legislature takes office. There were elections just a couple of weeks ago for the entire legislature. And it looks to be a legislature that is more conservative than the current legislature. And so the push right now is to try and get some kind of a change to the law passed between now and April 30th.

CO: We will be following the story. Ms. Boukher, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

KB: Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

JD: Kathy Boukher is with the Citizens Group for the Decriminalization of Abortion. We reached her in San Salvador.

[Music: Guitar Strums]

Surgeon Ferrari Lawsuit

JD: It was a matter of human dignity. The Ferrari driving dignity of a B.C. neurosurgeon named Navraj Heran. One day in 2014, Dr. Heran was driving his Ferrari on a Vancouver Street. Actually it was one of Dr. Heran's Ferrari's, because Dr. Heran has a collection. This was the red 1990 F40 worth about $700,000. He was driving it — and then out of nowhere a utility pole. The wreckage was all over the news — bad luck. But he was lucky that his Ferrari was insured by the province's public insurer. ICBC’s premiums on a $700,000 Ferrari are only four times the ones on a Honda Civic. But the costs of repairing Dr. Heran's Ferrari would have blown your average Honda mechanic's mind. Between the red paint, the Italian made parts and the car’s cross country trip to see the Ferrari doctor in Toronto — ICBC says it's paid out almost $800,000. That's more than the car was worth. And yet Dr. Heran was not satisfied. He went to court arguing that the true cost of repairs will be closer to $1,000,000. Plus, he claimed that ICBC had caused delays that damaged his dignity. To quote the statement of claim, Dr. Heran is quote “a known collector of Farrari automobiles, which he makes available for public display and appreciation. The notable absence of the vehicle is a source of inquisitive inquiry that he finds unsettling and embarrassing. ICBC knew that their delay would damage his reputation within the community of Ferrari collectors and assail his sense of dignity,” unquote. The judge dismissed the dignity argument as frivolous. But other parts of Dr. Heran's case are going ahead. All of which goes some way to explaining why ICBC is operating a $1.3 billion in the Ferrari red.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Part 2: Seth Rich Lawsuit, Nerve Agent: Russian

Seth Rich Lawsuit

Guest: Leonard Gail

JD: Police believe that Seth Rich was murdered in a botched robbery in 2016. Mr. Rich was a Democratic staffer, he lived in Washington D.C. But despite the fact the police say the case was straightforward, online conspiracy theories tell a different story. And then last year Fox News ran a story giving credence to those conspiracy theories, which suggested the Democratic National Committee was behind the murder. That story was later retracted. But Seth Rich's parents are suing Fox News. They're seeking compensation for the emotional pain and suffering that that story caused. Leonard Gail is the lawyer for Joel and Mary Rich. We reached him in Omaha.

CO: Mr. Gail, just to start off, what exactly did that Fox News story say?

LEONARD GAIL: The Fox story says that Fox News had talked to an FBI informant who had a report that Seth Rich had in fact provided the missing DNC e-mails himself to Wikileaks, and it strongly implied that he was murdered because of it.

CO: And where did that story come from?

LG: Well, as we allege in our complaint, when that was killed he worked for the DNC. So beyond the fringe of credible observers people immediately wanted to, and did speculate, that of course somebody who worked for the DNC would have done something bad, when there was something bad to attribute to him, which was leaking the DNC e-mails. He became a perfect candidate. He worked for the DNC so they could have a political taint, and he was dead, so he couldn't respond to them.

CO: But he was dead because he was murdered during a robbery that went bad in 2016.

LG: It appears to be a botched robbery. Yes.

CO: And we know, as you point out, there are all kinds of conspiracy theories around the Democratic National Committee, but this one is it's a very elaborate story, isn't it? I mean, a lot of details, and Fox News went to air with great conviction that they had a great scoop. Why do you think Fox did that?

LG: The evidence that we will discover in the lawsuit will disclose why Fox did it — whether it was ratings, whether it was publicity and notoriety for breaking a story where there was a political agenda. We don't know. But we do know it got an extraordinary amount of currency in no small measure because it was convenient in that it took the public’s eye off of the Russia investigation and put it on to some concocted and sham conspiracy relating to the Democratic National Committee.

CO: This idea that it was politically motivated, what's the evidence to support that?

LG: Well, the complaint contains a variety of things. Let me just say, we will learn more about the motivations, which important for our lawsuit, is not the motivations. What's important for a lawsuit is the people who concocted this story did so with disregard for their impact on actual living humans. Let's be clear, from the lawsuit’s perspective we don't have to prove that there was an illicit political motive. That being said, the lawsuit does talk about conversations and texts and so forth among the conspirators talking about the advantage of pushing the story, that it would counter the Russian narrative and, as has gotten some publicity, there was a meeting with Sean Spicer, which Mr. Spicer confirms, where two of the conspirators disclosed to him a story that Fox was working on.

CO: How did this story come to fall apart, because for days Fox was standing behind its reporters, standing behind the veracity of its report. How did it start to come apart?

LG: Well, almost immediately, law enforcement namely the FBI and the D.C. police disclaimed key facts that Fox had alleged, namely that there was evidence that the deceased, that Seth Rich, had been in contact with the police. And then second, Fox itself retracts the story.

CO: First thing that happened, I understand, was that the FBI said well, there was no federal investigator, there was no FBI report that was central to the claim. So the FBI was the one that sort of started to pull the thread out.

LG: I don't know what the first thing that pulled the thread out is, but I think when the FBI denies a critical component of your story, that's a big thread.

CO: Did Fox News ever apologize?

LG: No.

CO: When they pulled it, what did they say in their defense?

LG: I think they said something akin to the article did not meet our editorial standards.

CO: But at the same time, as you've pointed out, what's going on is that there's a family grieving for the death of their son who was murdered in this botched robbery. What was it like for the Rich family?

LG: I mean, the family themselves describe it in a couple different ways. One is the feeling as if their son was murdered a second time. He had been murdered bodily by this botched robbery and then his memory was destroyed and slain by the accusations, essentially, that he was a traitor to his country. They've also as a more sort of medical matter described how, like anybody, you try to grieve and you only get to move beyond things we've gone through a process of grief. And the Fox story and the megaphone that Fox gave to these fringe conspiracies interfered with and arrested their ability to grieve. Now we hope that's not permanent but you can tell based upon the sort of mental and physical manifestations, that the normal grieving process has been horribly interrupted.

CO: And the fact that Fox News said so little about its story, there is no abject apology. There were no big statements issued, and the family is still dealing with people believing that their son was involved?

LG: Absolutely. There are people who come up to them and make those comments out of the blue as they're walking around trying to go shopping or something like that. It's also the case that one of the defendants, Mr. Butowsky, continues to essentially harass the parents.

CO: And just as you mentioned Butowsky, that’s Ed Butowsky Dallas businessman who is the one who built the story behind the scenes, and he still maintains when he was interviewed, that there's quote “a lot out there.”

LG: We look forward to putting the lie to those self-serving and fictitious claims.

CO: Just finally, was anyone caught for killing Seth Rich.?

LG: No, the investigation is ongoing.

CO: A lot for that family to deal with.

LG: To say the least ma’am. One of the things the family feels very strongly about is that they want to do what they can to draw the line in the sand and prevent other people from being in their position.

CO: We’ll leave it there. Mr. Gail, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

LG: OK ma'am, thank you.

JD: Leonard Gail is the lawyer for the parents of Seth Rich. We reached Mr. Gail in Omaha, Nebraska.

[Music: Lo-fi Hip-Hop]

Nerve Agent: Russian

Guest: Sergei Markov

JD: 23 Russian diplomats, or undeclared intelligence officers, as the British Prime Minister Theresa May calls them, are packing their bags. Here is some of what Ms. May told the UK parliament earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY: Mr. Speaker, it was right to offer Russia the opportunity to provide an explanation. But their response has demonstrated complete disdain for the gravity of these events. They have provided no credible explanation that could suggest they lost control of their nerve agent. No explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the United Kingdom. No explanation as to why Russia has an undeclared chemical weapons program in contravention of international law. Instead they have treated the use of a military grade nerve agent in Europe with sarcasm, contempt and defiance. So Mr. Speaker, there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian state was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr. Skripal and his daughter, and for threatening the lives of other British citizens in Salisbury, including Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey.

JD: Theresa May speaking in the U.K. parliament earlier today. Britain has ordered the Russian diplomats out as part of their response to the attempted murder of a former spy living in Salisbury. Britain says Russia is to blame. Russia has denied any involvement in the poisoning. Sergei Markov is a Russian political scientist and an occasional adviser to the Kremlin. We reached Mr. Markov in Moscow.

CO: Mr. Markov, as I'm sure you know, the UK Prime Minister Theresa May, has said that the Russian state is responsible for the attempted murder of Mr. Skripal and his daughter. What do you say to that?

SERGEI MARKOV: I think that Ms. May has no fact which proves it’s Russian. Everybody understands that Russian authorities are very much not interested in the scandal prior to this before the presidential elections. And the fact which have been mentioned by Prime Minister Theresa May show that maybe she's lying.

CO: What do you mean she’s lying? They're going quite far out on a limb here. They're expelling agents, 23 diplomats to be told to pack their bags. She is saying that this is the unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom. I mean, these are pretty strong accusations against Russia. You just say she's lying?

SM: It's really a strong accusation against Russia. I think it's because Theresa May as a politically weak Prime Minister is manipulated by the British Intelligence Service, exactly as Colin Powell in the past as State Secretary of the United States showed to everybody on the Security Council of United Nations that biological weapons that are of Saddam Hussein, it say pacification orchestrated by British Intelligence Service and Theresa May is manipulated.

CO: I just want to pick up what you're saying. So you're saying that Theresa May is just playing politics, she's a weak leader, she wants to look strong by doing this.

SM: Absolutely. Theresa May has no fact that proves that the Russian government’s involvement. Just on propaganda in a very hysterical tone.

CO: Okay, but on the other hand, they're saying that that this is orchestrated by the Kremlin, by Mr. Putin who is trying to look like he is strong and that he can reach his hand way into the United Kingdom and have someone killed — that it’s the exact for opposite.

SM: What for?

CO: Well, because he wants to look strong on the Russians stage.

SM: Just to look strong? Vladimir Putin has popularity between 65 and 70 per cent in Russia. He doesn't need any artificial ways to get additional popularity. I will say a joke, which is very popular in Russia now. I started as a joke. Vladimir Putin at the Kremlin tells his adviser “Oh, our campaign is too boring. I have too big popularity. Let's make some hype and kill somebody.”

CO: That's a joke Russia right now that they're saying he said “I'm so bored, I'm going to kill somebody to spice up…

SM: Yeah exactly. And his advisors ask him, who to kill. Maybe some of your opponents. No it’s too boring. We have too good relations with Great Britain and the United States, let’s kill somebody on the streets of London or New York. You really believe that's going to happen?

CO: That's the joke it's going around in Russia?

SM: Everybody is laughing because everybody understands that it’s paranoia to think such about Vladimir Putin. It's clear demonization of Vladimir Putin and Russia and it's great for the campaign. And I just want to say, give up the demonization of Russia, please. Establish control of your government or your corrupted James Bond.

CO: So you’re saying that they're playing politics, that this is about politics, but on the other hand here's another person who is saying the same thing. A Russian chemist, one of the people who helped develop this nerve agent, this Novichok, and he says that “It is only capable of being done by the government. Only the Russian government could carry out this attack with this compound and that Russia maintains tight control over Novichok and its stockpile — too complicated for a non-state actor to use this as a weapon.” This is the man who helped develop this very thing, a Russian who says this only could've been done by Russia. What do you say to that?

SM: It's a very good question. Exactly showing, proving very much, that British government institutions poisoned Mr. Skripal. He many times claimed himself as an enemy of Vladimir Putin. And also it shows very well if the United States and Great Britain has the creator of Novichok, it's absolutely clear that the United States and the British Intelligence Service has this Novichok nerve gas. Because they have the creator of this gas.

CO: Well how can you prove that? You say you need evidence. Can you prove that Novichok, which is developed and owned by Russia, that is apparently under tight control of Russia, do you have evidence to say that this is now in the hands of the United Kingdom or of American agents?

SM: You know, I ask you rationally to please give up propaganda. If such influential and economically developed countries like United States and Great Britain has the creator of Novichok, of course they can make Novichok very easily.

CO: All right, we'll leave it there Mr. Markov, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SM: My pleasure.

JD: Sergei Markov is a Russian political scientist and an occasional adviser to the Kremlin. We reached him in Moscow.

Nikki Haley Russia

JD: Well the U.S. sided with the U.K. today. Their ambassador to the United Nations said “America supports the British conclusion that Russia poisoned Sergei Skripal.” Here is some of what Nikki Haley said today.

SOUNDCLIP

NIKKA HALEY: The Russians complained recently that we criticize them too much. If the Russian government stopped using chemical weapons to assassinate its enemies, and if the Russian government stopped helping its Syrian ally to use chemical weapons to kill Syrian children, and if Russia cooperated with the organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons by turning over all information related to this nerve agent, we would stop talking about them. Russia is a permanent member of the Security Council. It is entrusted in the United Nations Charter with upholding international peace and security. It must account for its actions. If we don't take immediate concrete measures Salisbury will not be the last place we see chemical weapons used. They could be used here in New York or in cities of any country that sits on this council. This is a defining moment. Time and time again, member states say they oppose the use of chemical weapons under any circumstance. Now one member stands accused of using chemical weapons on the sovereign soil of another member. The credibility of this council will not survive if we fail to hold Russia accountable.

JD: U.S. Ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley speaking earlier today.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Rex Tillerson

JD: U.S. President Donald Trump of course fired his secretary of state yesterday — reportedly by way of a tweet. And then crunchy new details emerged about the extent of the power struggle between the two men. Last November President Trump, Mr. Tillerson and other officials gathered in Beijing's Great Hall of the People during a trip to China. According to the Wall Street Journal a lunch of wilted Caesar salad was served. When no one touched the sad looking salad, the president worried his Chinese hosts were offended. He turned to Mr. Tillerson with the order quote, “Rex eat the salad.” Now I can only imagine that a stalemate ensued. The former Exxon Mobil CEO, now ousted Secretary of State, locking eyes with the U.S. president breathing heavily over the plate of limp lettuce. Apparently Mr. Tillerson declined. He said he would prefer a cheeseburger. Still no word on whether anyone actually did ever eat the droopy greens. But this does seem like a warning to those left in cabinet. While you may not win friends with salad, in the Trump administration it's best to eat it when ordered if you want to romaine.

[Music: Jazz Band]

Obit Title Later

JD: Parents are offered a seemingly endless number of rules, or systems of rules by which to raise their kids. But American pediatrician T. Berry Brazelton thought that parents should just chill out. He encourage them to take cues from their babies. Dr. Brazelton spent much of his career studying those babies, their personalities and their development. As the Boston Globe put it his quote “ability to connect with them one on one even at a preverbal level was extraordinary,” earning him the nickname ‘Baby Whisperer.’ Dr. Brazelton translated that connection into a new test of newborns behaviour called the Neonatal Behavioral Assessment Scale. He wrote a number of books. He hosted a TV show. T. Berry Brazelton died yesterday. He was 99 years old. In 1998 Dr. Brazelton spoke to As It Happens following the death of his friend and colleague, another well-known pediatrician Dr. Benjamin Spock. Dr. Brazelton called Dr. Spock his hero. He said their work was related. Here is Dr. Brazelton describing how he learned about Dr. Spock’s work.

SOUNDCLIP

T. BERRY BRAZELTON: Back in my training days actually, I was looking for a model. I'd been trained in pediatrics and then in child psychiatry, and both of them were such a deficit model. You know, you were just taught to look for people's failures not their successes. And Ben's book Baby and Child Care was such a wonderful change in the atmosphere of parenting. And I could pick that up from the book. So I became aware of it way back in my training in the 50s.

MARY LOU FINLAY: Why was it a change?

TBB: He gave people permission to think back about which way they wanted to raise their children. Up until then it had been a didactic training kind of training, and, you know, it was necessary to give it back to people, and that's what it did.

MLF: Where do you and he differ?

TBB: I think I'm more child-oriented, he was more parent-oriented. I hope I'm both, but I'm more involved in my research and teaching what the child contributes to the equation.

MLF: Thinking that perhaps parents still have the upper hand by a long way?

TBB: Well, I don't think that as much as they need to understand what's going on in the child and then they feel more confident. I think parenting today is a very, very anxiety producing job. Young parents with babies tell me they've got to do a perfect job because their kids are going to have to face drugs and sex and violence. You know, what is a perfect job in parenting? Nobody ever gets it right.

MLF: No. Terrifying isn't it?

TBB: It is terrifying. It's terrifying for good reasons because you're so passionate.

MLF: It's true now though that probably nobody would think of raising a family without consulting your book, Spock's book, maybe a half-a-dozen books.

TBB: Right.

MLF: So even if you've given us permission in a sense to follow our instincts ,nobody really does.

TBB: I don't think people know enough what they are and maybe the reading is like aunts and uncles and grandparents used to be, that they gave you their advice and you had to make your own decision.

JD: From our archives, that was Dr. T. Berry Brazelton speaking with Mary Lou Finlay in March of 1998. Dr. Brazelton died yesterday in Massachusetts. He was 99 years old.

[Music: Ambient Tones]

Part 3: Jagmeet Singh Rally, Marc-André Leclerc Obit, Texas Bomb Packages

Jagmeet Singh Rally

Guest: Dave Hayer

JD: A YouTube video from 2015 has led to some tough questions for federal NDP leader Jagmeet Singh. The video, first reported by The Globe and Mail shows Mr. Singh speaking at a Sikh Independence rally in San Francisco. The stage featured a large poster of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, a militant leader who the Indian government considers a terrorist, but who is celebrated by some advocates of a separate Sikh state. Jagmeet Singh says that he attended the rally to foster peace not division. Dave Hayer is a former Liberal MLA. His father was journalist Tara Singh Hayer, he was a newspaper editor who was murdered in 1998 after speaking out about the Air India bombing and extremism. We reached Dave Hayer in Surrey B.C.

CO: Mr. Hayer, what's your reaction when you learned that Jagmeet Singh attended and spoke at this Sikh Independence rally in 2015?

DAVE HAYER: Well, I was not that surprised considering that when he was talking to CBC about the mastermind of the bombing and whose pictures are displayed in different places in Canada, and he didn't want to condemn that person, Mr. Talwinder Singh Parmar. So if he is not willing to condemn Talwinder Parmar, mastermind of the Air India bombing, then I thought if he can't condemn that I doubt he can do anything that shows more support against terrorism than that.

CO: And you're referring to an interview that Terry Milewski did on CBC in October.

DH: Once he became a leader of the NDP party. I mean, he's running to be a prime minister. And if you're going to be a prime minister you can condemn the acts of terrorism done by the mastermind who used to be Canadian citizen.

CO: And the question that Terry asked, three times to push Jagmeet Singh to answer the question what do you make of posters of Talwinder Singh Parmar, considered to be the mastermind of the Air India bombing, that he asked him what do you make of having that poster, is it appropriate? And he refused to answer that question. That's what you're referring to.

DH: Yes, he refused to answer. And a simple answer for him would have been him saying he condemns all forms of terrorism, including Mr. Parmar's act involved in there, because the Supreme Court judge who did inquiry said that Mr. Parmar’s the mastermind behind the Air India bombing. At the Air India trial two of the accused, who were later acquitted, they also agreed that Mr. Parmar was the mastermind of the Air India bombing. It's not that we don't have enough evidence.

CO: And he was asked why doesn't he denounce Mr. Parmar? He said that I don't know who is responsible for the Air India disaster. And of course Mr. Parmar was never brought to book for that because he was shot to death in India before there was any trial. But a series of reports that were done indicated that the Sikh extremists who supported an independent Khalistan were the masterminds, that Mr. Parmar was developing bombs for some purpose, if not for the Air India. Is that fair to say that way?

DH: That is very fair and all the evidence is in the inquiry. It clarifies very clearly that there was more than enough evidence to show us that Mr. Parmar was the mastermind for the bombing. And here's Mr. Jagmeet Singh, leader of the NDP who wants to be the prime minister, who did not want to condemn it. And to me that was the most frightening part. After that day anything this gentleman does or has done in the past does not surprise me.

CO: So let's go back to what the Globe and Mail reports today, that this independence rally for Khalistan held in 2015, people are cheering Khalistan, Khalistan, which is the name of this independent state for Sikhs that they would like to have. And he is onstage speaking to them, but he's not saying that he is supporting Khalistan, he's saying that he is supporting peace and wants to see people realise their dreams. What do you think is the problem with him being on stage with these chants?

DH: Some of the people who held that event that they will use his presence on the stage when they're chanting and those chants in the background are saying this person must be supporting it otherwise he would not be here, especially he's a person who understands Punjabi, understands the culture understand, what they're really talking about. It was very clear what the message was, he should have at that time condemned the acts of terrorism done by people who are involved in terrorism. At the same time he said that if any government is involved in killing innocent human beings, regardless what background they are, whether it be Sikhs or Christians or Hindus or Muslims or Jewish, right — I also condemn that. I mean, that would be a fair statement.

CO: And Jagmeet Singh has said that, he said that he believes in self-determination. There are people who discuss Khalistan in terms of an independence movement without violence. Is it possible that Mr. Singh could be part of that. could be advocating on behalf of those people without advocating violence?

DH: Well, I think in Canada we have a democracy, you can have different views, but at the same time when we condemn something we have to condemn everybody who killed innocent people, right. And sure enough there were innocent people killed in Amritsar golden temple, when the Indian government went in, and also innocent people were killed after the Mrs. Gandhi riot. But at the same time there were innocent people killed by some Sikh terrorists in Punjab and they killed many Sikhs and many Hindus. We have to condemn all acts of violence and we have to say if anybody from whatever your background is, if you're killing some people it is the wrong thing to do and we can't be just selective who would condemn.

CO: Your own father was murdered. He was a journalist wrote and was outspoken against Sikh extremism and he is a Sikh himself, as you are. How do you feel about Jagmeet Singh possibly becoming the prime minister knowing that he's taken part in these rallies?

DH: You know, in democracy anybody that is elected by the people has a right to serve the country if they are elected by Canadians the right. In another hand, I feel shame that we have a person at this level who are willing to not condemn terrorism. I was just shocked with that interview and I shocked that he hasn't changed his mind to clarify it and even now to say it is the wrong thing to do.

CO: We will leave it there. Mr. Hayer, I appreciate speaking with you, thank you.

DH: You're very welcome. Thank you.

JD: Dave Hayer is a former Liberal MLA in British Columbia. We reached him in Surrey.

[Music: Electric Guitar Strums]

Marc-André Leclerc Obit

Guest: John Irvine

JD: B.C. Climber Marc-André Leclerc’s final Instagram post is from March 5th. The photo was taken near Juneau, Alaska. It is taken from high up, it looks out over some snowy gray mountains. Mr. Leclerc was climbing the Mendenhall Towers, a remote glacier in Alaska. Last night Mr. Leclerc’s father announced that his 24-year-old son is presumed dead. He and his climbing partner, Ryan Johnson, were reported missing two days after that final Instagram post. Mr. Leclerc had been called one of the best young alpinist in the world. That is a quote by Outside magazine. He was sponsored by the Canadian sporting goods company Arc'teryx, where he worked with John Irvine. We reached Mr. Irvine in Vancouver.

CO: John, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss.

JOHN IRVINE: Yeah, it's a heavy day and yeah we're going to miss him. It's hard.

CO: Well, what happened? What do you know at this point about what happened to Marc-Andre Leclerc and his climbing partner Ryan Johnson?

JI: All we know is what's been released by the Alaska State Troopers. They have been working with the Juneau mountain rescue team, which is a very skilled and very well-resourced team, and they've been working on this case since Tuesday. They — Marc-Andre Leclerc and Ryan Johnson — Ryan is a local there from Juneau, an avid climber himself, and they decided to go up on this route on the Mendenhall Towers. It was a beautiful day they got to the summit. We understand that Mark, when he got to the top called his father, called a friend and took a photograph, which has been widely circulated on Instagram — and it looked like it was a beautiful day judging from that photo. And then they had to descend and that's where we lost track of them. And then based on the statement from Alaska State Troopers this morning they found a rope and the ends of the rope lead into a crevasse, which is now buried in storm snow that's accumulated over the last seven to eight days. And they can't — yeah they got the rope and I think they're speculating that the gentleman are tied to the end of the rope in that crevasse. It’s really heartbreaking.

CO: this Mendenhall Towers, had Marc-Andre ever climbed it before?

JI: No, I don't believe he had. I think Ryan Johnson, who was a local, it was something that he's been on before and he's has done some pioneering on that peak in the past, and has some new routes that he's established on that. And I think he picked a new line — I'm totally speculating here — but I think that he inspired Marc-Andre to join him. And that's what got Marc up there.

CO: What kind of climb would something like that be for Marc-Andre? How experienced was he?

JI: Yeah, that's a good question Marc, you know, as I said Marc's parents got him into climbing — not climbing but in the outdoors and in the mountains in the Chilliwack area at a very early age. And Marc was, from that point on very, passionate about the mountains and hiking and that evolved into climbing. And a lot of people say that he had more time in the mountains than most people get in their lifetime and was very proficient and very good. You know, the equivalent of his skill set is Sidney Crosby in hockey. And he was a prodigy who was, like I said, skilled and comfortable and in the mountains hence his notoriety, hence his fame. You know, one of the reasons we loved our relationship with Marc as a brand was he inspired people but he enabled people as well. He was first asked to come and volunteer to share stories and we run the event in Squamish we call it a Climbing Academy, and it's an opportunity for people to come and do clinics. And he was the first to volunteer and offer his services to teach people his skills, teach his craft. And he did an amazing job of that.

CO: You've known him since he was 19. What was he like? Tell us a bit about him as a person?

JI: I think most people would say that, you know, as I just outlined he was very skilled in the mountains and a very skilled climber. But I think what sticks out most for us was he was incredibly humble. He didn't wear his exploits on his sleeve. He didn't brag about that stuff. He was incredibly humble and incredibly approachable. And he was more keen to share his love for the mountains and then his tick list in the mountains. That's what we love most about him. He was very soft spoken and at the same time really engaging and thoughtful when he spoke and when he presented and when he talked to people about what he did.

CO: How are his parents dealing with this?

JI: They're heartbroken obviously. He was very loved by both his mother and father and I think this is probably an incredibly hard time for them.

CO: Do you know if there is going to be a mission to try and get him out of that crevasse and bring his body home?

JI: I think his parents would really like that. I think that is — the realities of that I'm not sure. I think it's the base of a climb and it's a dynamic place and I think the professionals that are up there with search and rescue and professional climbing community would be able to better answer if that's a possibility. I can’t tell you, I'd be speculating to give you a good answer there.

CO: John, I appreciate speaking with you, thank you.

JI: Thank you.

CO: And I'm sorry.

JI: Thank you.

JD: We reached John Irvine in Vancouver. He works with Arc'teryx, the outdoors company that sponsored climber Marc-André Leclerc. Mr. Leclerc was last heard from on March 5th. The 24-year-old climber is now presumed dead.

[Music: Ambient Bass Tones]

Texas Bomb Packages

Guest: Tony Plohetski

JD: Residents in Austin are on edge tonight. Police there believe that a killer or killers are targeting them where they should feel most safe — in their homes. In the past two weeks three packages have been left on the doorsteps of homes in and around Austin's suburbs. The packages have contained explosive devices that killed two people and wounded two others. Tony Plohetski is an investigative reporter for the American Statesman. We reached him in Austin.

CO: Tony, what can you tell us about the victims of these bombs?

TONY PLOHETSKI: Well, the first victim is a 39-year-old man by the name of Anthony House. He was killed on March 2nd when a pipe bomb was left at his front door. The second victim died on Monday. He is 17-year-old Draylen Mason, and he was a local high school student here with, by all accounts a very prominent future.

CO: Are they linked together in any way?

TP: Well, that is what authorities are trying to uncover right now. I mean what we know from the police and from federal agents, who are also investigating this, is that the devices that were left at their doors are very similar in nature and the way they were constructed. But the big question that authorities are still trying to understand is there anything connecting these two families that might lead them down a road to explain why they may have been targeted in these attacks.

CO: And is there anything linking them?

TP: Nothing so far that we know, but that is a major focus of the police investigation right now.

CO: Can you describe the packages these people received?

TP: Authorities have not told us a whole lot about the packages. What we do know is that they are not being sent through the United States Postal Service or any other professional carrier. But the police chief here has described them as boxlike packages that are being left at doors. But experts say whoever is doing this clearly has some skill in manufacturing these types of devices that are exploding at the time that they are being picked up and opened.

CO: So what happens, you open the packet and it and it blows up, is that right?

TP: That’s right.

CO: And so the police are offering quite a substantial reward, $50,000 for any information leading to an arrest, in addition to another $15,000 reward from the Texas governor Greg Abbott. And I understand a lot of people have come forward. Do you know of any useful information has come to police?

TP: None that we have been made aware of. Of course as you can imagine, police are keeping much of this information close to the vest. But by all accounts, and among the numerous investigators that I have talked to, none of them really have a solid theory at this point about what is happening in the community.

CO: People in the community feel that connection is that two families are both prominent African-American families and that this may be a hate crime. What are police saying about that?

TP: That is definitely a course that police are going down. The police chief acknowledged the relationship in terms of both victims from the first and second attacks were African-American families, were African-American male victims. But the authorities have really not walked that theory out further, at least for the public, but they have acknowledged that there are those similarities in the first and second victims. But at the same time that theory also gets somewhat watered down, if you will, given that the third victim was a 75-year-old Hispanic woman.

CO: Now also the questions as to whether or not she was the intended victim, that she was the one that they were trying to get at with this bomb. So could it have been somebody else.

TP: That's right.

CO: So these packages don't arrive through the post. How did they end up in people's hands?

TP: By all accounts someone is driving to these homes in the dead of night and leaving them at the front door so that they are discovered first thing in the morning by the homeowner or by a resident of the home.

CO: And the first explosion was on March 2nd. Why didn't the police give some kind of a warning to people about the possibility that there might be packages before the other two explosions happened?

TP: Well, according to police they initially thought that this incident represented no further threat to the public, that they believed, at least at the time, that the evidence that they had pointed to an isolated incident. There are things that apparently made them believe that, including the idea that it may have been linked to a suspected drug dealer who lived on the same street as the first victim. But as they started going down that particular path they realized well maybe that isn't what happened. Then they found other evidence that still continued to make them believe that there was no threat to the public. And that was really their position until Monday morning when we had this second attack.

CO: What are they saying now? How are people in Austin being warned at this point?

TP: People have been warned repeatedly in recent days, if you see a suspicious package do not open it and instead call 911. And what we have seen at this point is that dozens of people have in fact done that, police have been responding to numerous calls, I think well over 200 this week from people reporting suspicious packages. But fortunately as far as we know at this point none of those was an explosive device.

CO: That must be extremely difficult given how much people now get through deliveries of this kind. Everything comes to the door, so if police have to respond to all those calls it certainly takes away their time doesn't it?

TP: It absolutely does. And in fact federal officials have actually arrived here from Washington D.C. to help with that as well.

CO: And how are people dealing with it? What's the mood?

TP: You know, people here are obviously very jittery. I can tell you this morning and yesterday morning the first thing I did when I woke up was to check my front door and I know friends are doing the same thing. People are very nervous and people are very concerned. And at the same time it's also a big mystery. People really want to know what is going on and why this is happening here at this time.

CO: Very alarming. Tony, I appreciate you telling us this story. Thank you.

TP: Absolutely.

JD: Tony Plohetski is an investigative reporter for the American statesman. We reached him in Austin.

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March 14, 2018 episode transcript

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