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The AIH Transcript for April 24, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

CO: She was out enjoying what felt like the first day of spring. Then the van jumped the curb in North Toronto — and now, Anne Marie D'Amico is the first victim to be identified.

JD: The cop who didn't shoot. Constable Ken Lam single-handedly arrested the suspect — and the first witness to come across the tense standoff is among those astonished by his restraint.

CO: Public enmity. The alleged attacker referred to a misogynist online community of men who call themselves "incels" — or "involuntary celibates" — and a journalist tells us about her dark journey into their world.

JD: Crossing guard. More people are coming into Canada illegally from the United States — and Conservative Immigration Critic Michelle Rempel says it's time for the Liberal government to take action.

CO: The Earth is not flat — but Uranus is flatulent. According to a new study, we're lucky to be four planets away from that giant stinkball — because its atmosphere totally reeks.

JD: And...if he wasn't scratching his head beforehand, he is now. French President Emanuel Macron is looking over his shoulder, when U.S. President Trump publicly brushes dandruff off his suit during an Oval Office photo op.

JD: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that calls that what it is: flake news.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Van attack: victim friend, van attack: Incel, border numbers

Van attack: victim friend

Guest: Cesar Palacio

JD: Today, Alek Minassian appeared in a Toronto courtroom, where he was charged with ten counts of first-degree murder and thirteen counts of attempted murder. We're still learning about the ten people who were killed in yesterday's van attack. But the first person to be identified is Anne Marie D'Amico. The 25-year-old worked at Invesco, an investment firm on Yonge, between Finch and Sheppard Ave — right by where the van drove up onto the sidewalk, leaving carnage in its wake. City Councillor Cesar Palacio has known the D'Amico family for more than two decades. We reached Councillor Palacio in Toronto.

CO: Councillor Palacio, first of all, I'm so sorry for your loss.

CESAR PALACIO: Well, it's a sad day not only for my family but for our community. And I can only imagine for the D’Amico family.

CO: I know you were just with the D’Amico family, how are they coping?

CP: They're very sad. Living the worst nightmare that any parent, any brother, any sister can ever imagine or experience. They have suffered a tremendous loss and a part of their lives.

CO: You've known their family for more than 25 years, and so you've known Anne Marie since she was a little girl. What was she like?

CP: Anne Marie, she was bright, extrovert, fun, very active, very accomplished young lady and very engaged in terms of her civic life. She was one of the brightest stars that I knew in the community. It was not only that her intellectual abilities that put her above the crowd, but also in terms of her sports. She was a superstar when it comes to badminton and in terms of volunteering. She volunteered most of her life with the Rogers Cup. And apart from that, she was working full time at Invesco.

CO: Which is a U.S.-based investment management firm in North York — she worked really close to where it happened?

CP: Very close; just steps away. And that's part of the tragedy. And with a beautiful day as it was, she was just taking a nice walk, and I can imagine probably going for lunch when this tragedy happened.

CO: And I'm looking at pictures that have been posted of her — a very, very beautiful young woman. And I’ll just read a bit of what her parents — her family — has put out this statement, and this is a quote, “Her name has been broadcast around the world attached to this terrible tragedy. But we want everyone to know that she embodied the definition of altruism. It comforts us knowing that the world has a chance to know her, and we hope that in this time, people fight with the same altruism rather than anger and hatred.” This is a very generous statement, isn't it?

CP: It is, and very profound. But also, it reflects who she was. She was voted “Volunteer of the Year” in 2016. She volunteered on humanitarian trips. She was volunteering in terms of building houses, schools, or whatever it was. She was an amazing young lady. For me, she was an inspiration, and that's where I got my strength very often by talking to her.

CO: How did you find out about her death?

CP: Through my daughter, Alexa. Early last night, I spoke to my daughter, and she was in tears and crying, and she says can you believe, dad, what just happened? And then I said no, I don't. So she was referring to tragedy on Younge Street, and I said I know that. And that’s when she told me that Anne Marie died, and my daughter is a very close friend with Francis D’Amico, that’s Anne Marie’s sister. It’s very difficult for those of us that had the fortune to know her.

CO: Your daughter must be very upset about this. You were saying that she's already talking about how horrible this tragedy is, and then to find out that to you know somebody that you're a friend of somebody who was killed.

CP: You think it was, and she said here we have in this beautiful city of 2.8 million people, what are the chances that my close friend was struck in such a way?

CO: I'm so sorry about all this.

CP: I’m very sorry as well, and my heart goes to the family, my prayers and my deep condolences to the family, and all the families of the victims, and what a tragedy.

CO: And so many heroes of this story too, aren't there? Because there was a man named Rob Greco, who was right there, and he saw her hit, and he stayed with her, he talked to her, he told her help is on the way; it's coming. He says he moved her hair away from her face, so it didn't get in the way of her breathing. And then helped the paramedics to put gauze on her wounds when they took her away in the ambulance, so she wasn't alone, there was somebody there holding her hand.

CP: She had a big, huge heart, and she was an amazing, amazing human being. And the fact that she knew that she was not alone; someone wasn't listening carefully to her, and comforted her. That went a long way. It's a very sad. It’s very sad that happened this way, but on the other hand, we have a beautiful legacy that she leaves behind. Myself, I'm an immigrant as well, and I understand the dynamics of where we live, a beautiful city, a peaceful city, a city where we have a tremendous level of coexistence. The city is strong, very strong, very resilient, and we will continue to fight with much more strength and inspiration because that's the legacy that Anne Marie and the rest of the victims leave behind.

CO: She sounds like a remarkable woman.

CP: Absolutely. And the family are extremely proud of her, and she will always be remembered for being so thoughtful, so kind and all of us neighbours and friends will remember her that way.

CO: Councillor Palacio, I really appreciate you speaking with us, and telling us about Anne Marie D’Amico. Thank you.

CP: Thank you, Carol.

CO: Take care.

CP: Take care. Bye bye.

JD: Cesar Palacio is a Toronto City Councillor, and a friend of the D'Amico family. We reached him in Toronto. Anne Marie D'Amico is the first identified fatality in yesterday's van attack in Toronto. She was 25 years old.

[Music: Ambient]

Van attack: Incel

Guest: Aditi Natasha Kini

JD: While a makeshift memorial to the ten people killed in yesterday's van attack grows in Toronto, information is beginning to trickle out about the alleged perpetrator, Alek Minassian. Police have confirmed that minutes before the attack, Mr. Minassian posted a bizarre message to Facebook. In it he wrote about a, quote, "Incel Rebellion", unquote, which is a reference to a misogynist online community of so-called "Involuntary Celibates". Aditi Natasha Kini is a journalist who wrote an in-depth article on "Incels" for Vice last year. We reached her in New York.

CO: Aditi, before we get to this Facebook post made by Alek Minassian, can you tell us first of all, what is an Incel?

ADITI NATASHA KINI: An Incel, it stands for “Involuntary Celibate”. So an Incel is a cisgendered, heterosexual man hasn't had sex — not out of choice.

CO: And that's something that generally people would want to keep to themselves. It would be a very private matter. Why is it developed into an online phenomenon?

ANK: I wonder if it's sexual entitlement? There is a growing faction of men who have found outlets for their anger against women and dating culture in general online. And that's been codified into sort of indoctrination. They have lingo, they have specific like educative documentation. It establishes itself through these echo chambers online.

CO: If I understand what you're suggesting is that Incel isn't just people meeting online to compare notes and to commiserate and help each other get better dating skills. This is something that has an echo or a tone of misogyny and hatred toward women?

ANK: So on the surface, Incel sounds harmless. It sounds like someone who is trying to make sense of why they cannot connect with other people, but the Incel community purposely leaves out who they call females or “femdroids”, women who they say cannot be an Incel because women always get sex, regardless of how ugly they are — just to paraphrase, I'm not saying that. And they leave out gay people because they think gay people have easier access to sex. So there is a high degree of misogyny in the community.

CO: Let's talk about this in relation to Alek Minassian, the man who is accused of the van attack yesterday in Toronto, and he wrote on Facebook, this is a post that has now been verified that he did write. He says, “The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys! All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!” OK, a lot there to unpack. And we all take each part of that one-by-one because I'm sure there's a lot there. What was your first reaction when you saw this Facebook post?

ANK: It was kind of expected. Not that from the attack, I expected that he would be an Incel. But that sort of rhetoric is common in Incel forums online. And I've seen Elliot Rodger praised a lot and in some forums as a saint.

CO: For people who don't remember, Elliot Rodger — who has been called All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger — he is a man who killed six people in 2014 on the campus of the University of California. And just tell us how he plays into this online Incel community?

ANK: So Elliot Rodger is known for the shooting, and then the subsequent manifesto that was found where he detailed how he is an Incel, and he was very angry with women for not giving him sex. And he talked about this as his revenge. That's how he later got you know quote/unquote “anointed saint” within these communities.

CO: The other thing I just read in that Facebook thing from Alek Minassian, he says that we will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys. Can you tell us what that's in reference to?

ANK: So Chads are cisgendered, heterosexual men who are muscular, conventionally attractive, hot, they get whoever they want. Stacys a less common word because sometimes they call women femdroids. And Stacy is someone who pretends to be virtuous and pure in front of an Incel, and won't touch an Incel. But the minute Stacey meets a Chad, then she will have sex with him. So a Stacey is someone who arbitrates sexual favours by only giving them to Chads, and not having sex with Incels.

CO: Wow! Okay, so Chads and Stacys. And he says in the posting we will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys, what do you think that means?

ANK: I think that means that he was angry at everybody around him because you can't actually tell who’s a Chad, and who’s a Stacy, and who’s an Incel —not that I think of the world in those terms. But it does mean it's a terrorist sort of act to create fear in people, and to make their community known.

CO: Well, can you see any way that these Incel beliefs and what Alek Minassian is writing about on Facebook, can you see where being part of this community could lead to his decision — as he's been accused of — of ramming a van into pedestrians on the street?

ANK: There is a lot of discussion of revenge in these communities of uprising. And I can see the indoctrination from there leading to this.

CO: I know you follow this for you. You've written about it and know quite a bit about these Incel communities. Have you seen people responding within those communities to yesterday's attack?

ANK: Yes, one reaction is that it's a faked attack, or it's fake that he's an Incel, and it used to blemish the name of Incels. But then I've seen people talking about how this is an opportunity, and like it's good that they're in the mainstream. And I can read some of the comments to you. Some of them have a lot of expletives, so I probably shouldn't. But someone said: “It's a good time to be and Incel. Our brothers are launching their counter attack, getting their revenge.” Someone else said: “Well, he certainly got us noticed. Prepare the way to sell sainthood for Sir, Alek.” “One of us, one of us, one of us.” “Why do some people think it is bad for Incels?” “More exposure to the black pill, and fear from Stacys and normal F-word is a good thing.” “They already hated us simply because of our faces.” And then someone declared yesterday to be “Saint Minassian’s Feast”. So this attacker — this murderer — he is now known in these communities, and he's getting some traction.

CO: We’ll just point out, these are allegations still not proven in court. But it is very disturbing what you're reading. I know you have been following this for some time, and you've written and published your article about the online Incel groups. What happened to you after that? What reaction did you personally get?

ANK: I started getting a lot of messages. I had to close my DM’s on Twitter and Instagram. And I had to basically lock all my accounts because I started receiving violent threats. And at one point, a man called me, and he had my address, and he said he was outside, and I was not there, and it was an old address, but it was a lot of backlash. And I had a couple of other stories related to this lined up that I didn't do because for a while I wanted just like lay low because there was a lot of resentment for me writing about it to begin with.

CO: It’s all very disturbing what you're describing, Aditi. And I thank you very much for telling us about it.

ANK: No problem.

CO: All right. Bye bye.

ANK: Bye bye.

JD: We reached journalist Aditi Natasha Kini in New York City. You can find a link to Ms. Kini's article on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. Later on in the program, Carol will speak with a doctor at Toronto's Sunnybrook Hospital, where many of those injured in the van attack were taken.

[Music: Ambient]

Border numbers

Guest: Michelle Rempel

JD: It's looking like it’s going to be another busy summer of illegal border crossings from the U.S. into Quebec. The RCMP's numbers so far this year show nearly 3 times as many people making the trip as during the same period last year. Today, the Conservatives tabled a motion in the House of Commons, demanding that the Trudeau government take action. Michelle Rempel is the Conservative's Immigration Critic. We reached her in Ottawa.

CO: Ms. Rempel, what are you worried is going to happen if Justin Trudeau doesn't take your advice about this border?

MICHELLE REMPEL: You know on a really high level, I'm worried that the dialogue in Canada is going to switch from how we do immigration to if we do immigration, and that is not something that I want to see. Because I really strongly believe that Canada has proven to the world that we have the capacity to do immigration well. The problem with what's happening at the Quebec border is that it is unplanned immigration. And when you have that situation, it's difficult to anticipate and budget for the needs of newcomers to Canada. And that does place a burden on our social programs. And it also really removes the ability of the Government to match immigration with the needs of the economy, as well as to provide integration support such as language training for newcomers to Canada.

CO: OK, but we have to make a distinction do we not between immigration to Canada and refugees, asylum seekers. And the people who are crossing the border are making claims for asylum which is a different process, is it not? I mean immigration yes, planned. This has been the strength of it — Canadians want that. But according to our international obligations, people who come to our country who are seeking refuge from whatever must be given a hearing to see if they have a reasonable case for making an asylum claim. Isn't that a different process? Isn't that a different thing to consider?

MP: Well, actually, you talk about international obligations. We are party to something called the Safe Third Country Agreement with the United States. That is an obligation. And what that agreement says is that if somebody comes and makes an asylum claim in one of our two countries, and they try to make an asylum claim in the other country that we're going to say no because we mutually respect the fact that both Canada and the United States share a long land border, and that we both have some of the most generous, well-managed asylum claims systems in the world. And the problem that we're seeing at the Quebec border is because the Safe Third Country Agreement is silent on what happens when somebody illegally enters the country. So it applies when somebody comes through a legal point of entry. And this loophole is where we're seeing the demand increase. Many of the people who are making asylum claims in Canada who have illegally entered the country have already made asylum claims in the United States and have been rejected.

CO: If people come to the border if they get to a border point and make an asylum claim and they're coming from the United States, which is considered to be a safe country for them to make a claim in. If they get to a border crossing, then they will be turned back. But if they're able to get into the country, able to cross the border and make the claim inside the country, then they can be regarded as an asylum seeker on Canadian territory. And so you're proposing what? Can you describe what you think would be the solution to stop people from making those other crossings, not at border points?

MR: Right, so the government's response to date has been to accommodate people who have been illegally entering the country, specifically at the Lacolle crossing in Quebec. You know that the road has been paved. There are you know heated tent trailers. We feel that, and I feel that, what the government should be doing is two things: they should be approaching the issue with the Americans, saying let's amend the agreement so that it's also clear about what happens if you enter the country through a non-official port of entry. But while that process is being undertaken, the minister actually has the power to deem places a port of entry. So what he could do is deem the entire Canadian border a technical point of entry, so that the Safe Third Country Agreement would apply regardless of how somebody enters the country. And just to be clear, this is a legislative fix. This is something that can be done very easily. And it would give the CBSA — the Canadian Border Services Agencies — and the RCMP more tools to be able to enforce and maintain our borders, as they would at official ports of entry right now.

CO: Okay, but the six thousand kilometres of border here. I mean whether it's just a legislative thing or not, that's a lot of territory. They can't be policing that. People are, as it’s been pointed out, will be driven further and further into the weeds, into the fields, into whatever…

MR: See, I disagree with you because I think a lot of people are making this journey because there is now information out in the broader community in the United States that they understand the process and the loophole, right? So they understand that if they cross the border and they are apprehended, then they still have the right to claim asylum. And that there are processes in place to allow them to stay in Canada in terms of their work permits are being expedited, healthcare coverage is being expedited, their affordable housing has been expedited for them. I think if there would be a lot less demand on the system if they understood that no matter where you are being apprehended you're unable to make an asylum claim if you've already made one in the U.S. because you would then be returned to your country of origin. So the incentive would be 100 per cent removed with a very simple, very technical legislative fix. So rather than putting hundreds of millions of dollars to accommodate this activity, I'd rather see us focus on maintaining a planned orderly immigration system and a compassionate asylum and refugee system that supports the world's most vulnerable.

CO: You say that you care, that you think we should be open, we should be helping people. But there are those who say the reason why these people are crossing is that this is an exceptional time. We have not seen such hostility toward immigrants and toward refugees and asylum seekers in the United States in many years. And the people who are crossing are people who are desperate. That this Safe Third Country designation they regard as illegitimate. It's not a safe country for them to be in. And we're seeing at least half of the people who are making claims when they cross into Canada are being accepted by the Refugee Board.

MR: I think it's hard to argue that the United States is a place where people are fleeing persecution regardless of you know the entire conversation on the political discourse that's happening in the U.S. right now. The asylum claims system in the U.S. is arms-length, it's apolitical, and it's still very generous. And you know in terms of our capacity to be generous, there are many people that will listen to your program who have come to Canada legally, who are waiting to have their families reunified. I have one case in my riding where I have a family who wants to privately sponsor a refugee from Eritrea, and the wait time for that is now eighty nine months. I would rather that the government be focusing on how to make our system really focused on the world's most vulnerable, and be prioritizing people who are coming into the country legally. When we set planned orderly migration targets, we are able to support newcomers to Canada in a budgeted and planned way.

CO: OK, we'll leave it there. Ms. Rempel, thank you.

MR: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

MR: Bye.

JD: Michelle Rempel is the Conservative Immigration Critic. We reached her in Ottawa. We have more on this story on our website

Part two: Van attack: suspect video, Uranus farts

Van attack: suspect video

Guest: Asher Din

JD: In the House of Commons today, Canadians stood in silence to honour those who were killed in Toronto yesterday. The moment of silence followed tributes from all the major parties. We begin with a few words from the Speaker, Geoff Regan.

SOUNDCLIP

GEOFF REGAN: We find ourselves once again, offering condolences on the tragic and unexpected loss of life many of our fellow citizens have had to bear. Theirs is a deeply personal loss that can only be imagined by those of us who did not know their loved ones. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition.

ANDREW SCHEER: Mr. Speaker, yesterday a busy street in Toronto became the scene of horrible crime. On a peaceful sunny day in spring, we saw it marred by senseless brutality taking the lives of ten innocent people, and sending many more to hospital. Mr. Speaker, in the midst of these horrors, there were still moments to inspire our faith in humanity. We have all now seen how this cowardly attacker was confronted and subdued by a single brave Toronto police officer, exemplifying the best of Toronto’s first responders. And it is but one of the many acts of selflessness of which we have learned showing the bravery and kindness of Torontonians as they confronted a devastating act of murder on their streets. Toronto is a strong city, and its residents will have our support as they rally together not just in anger or grief, but in solidarity.

GR: The Honourable Member for Eglinton-Lawrence.

MARCO MENDICINO: The people of my home town of Toronto are grief stricken today in the wake of a senseless, horrifying, and criminal act that took ten innocent lives, and left many more injured — shattering a peaceful city. To our first responders, we are profoundly grateful for your service and courage. In a moment of truth, you stared down danger with professionalism and bravery that without question saved lives, prevented further injury, and kept our city safe. I hope all members will join me in expressing support and solidarity for the good people of Toronto, especially the mothers and fathers and spouses and children who lost someone they love. We are with you, and together we will emerge from this more united than ever.

JD: That was Toronto Eglington-Lawrence Liberal MP Marco Mendicino. Before that, you heard Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer, and starting off Speaker Geoff Regan. We heard the MPs there refer to Toronto Constable Ken Lam. Without firing a single shot, the Toronto police officer forced the suspect behind yesterday's deadly van attack to surrender. Asher Din was the first witness on the scene of the tense stand-off. We reached him earlier today in Toronto.

CO: Asher, you know that today this police officer, Constable Ken Lam, is being called a true hero who deserves a medal. Would you agree with that after what you saw?

ASHER DIN: Yes, 100 per cent I agree with it.

CO: What did you see? We've seen your footage, it's remarkable. Where were you when you saw all this go down?

AD: So I finished at the gym at Younge and Finch, and I was just traveling southbound on Beecroft Road — one street west of Younge Street. And I was driving south, and I just passed Sheppard, and we were like in a traffic jam. And as soon as we made a left, we saw a van pretty much get pulled over… not pulled over, but like it kind of just came to a stop and a police officer was beside it. And all of a sudden, a man came out, and a police officer came out with a gun drawn. And then I thought man at the moment was armed as well, and they were having like a standoff.

CO: Did you stop? Did you pull over to watch this?

AD: Yeah, we pulled over immediately, and then we just pulled out our phones, and we started tape recording it.

CO: Did you know what had just happened? That this van had gone down about two kilometres of road, knocking people over?

AD: No idea whatsoever. I had no clue. I didn't hear nothing of it. I had no clue.

CO: We've seen your video. The police officer, Constable Lam, is outside, he's got his gun, and the other fellow is out, and he's got something in his hand. Tell us what happened?

AD: OK, so pretty much they kind of go off in a standoff. The officer is telling the suspect to lay down his weapon and surrender, and he won’t get shot. And then he's like shoot me, shoot me, shoot me in the head. And then the officer like pretty much saw that he didn't have a weapon on him, and it was just like a wallet kind of that he was holding in his hand. And at that moment the officer put away his handgun, and then he pulled out a baton, and he told the suspect to surrender. The suspect had no choice pretty much because he knew he wasn’t going to get his wish granted to die or whatever, and then he just surrendered.

CO: There are other angles of the very thing that you filmed, and there is one from way up high. Someone tall office building was able to do it, and when you see it from there, you see almost like this very aggressive dance. It looks as though Alek Minassian is almost going to lunge at the officer, and he backs away. They’re just moving in the street. You can see just how dynamic it was.

AD: Yes, it was a pretty good show off — like it was pretty intense.

CO: What did you think was going to happen?

AD: I thought, to be honest, from my past experiences just being in the city from like I don't know if you remember that train incident — what happened with Sammy there — that the officer was just going to shoot him, and the guy was going to be dead. Like I thought I was going to see somebody get shot and die.

CO: You were thinking about Sammy Yatim?

AD: Yes.

CO: Sammy Yatim was a man, he was on the street car in Toronto, he was threatening people with a knife. The police officers who arrived they tasered him, but also one of the officers, James Forcillo, shot nine times Sammy Yatim, and killed him.

AD: Yes, yes, that's what I thought was going to be the outcome of this thing. But then I saw the officer was so amazing because he pulled out his baton, and that's when I got a little closer to the action. And that's when the officer like put him down, and he looked at me the officer, and he called me over, and then I'm the one that ran over to him. And I was like OK, what can I do? Do you need my help for anything? And he just told me to go make sure like everybody else around the corner is safe. There's nobody else hurt. Everybody else is secured. And then I tried to do the best I can. I came back and I reported to him that everybody else there is safe. And then all of a sudden, other cops emerged onto the scene. And then he just told me to just get this traffic out of here. So I decided to clear the road myself. And I had no idea what had happened. And I thought maybe the guy just robbed like you know there's a money place inside the building there, so I thought he robbed one of those money places or maybe he was just like driving away from their vehicle. I don't know. I just didn't think what occurred was what happened. So I just went about my business. I went back to Mississauga. And as soon as I went back to Mississauga, I started looking at the news, my social media and stuff, and they start posting all these things. And I was like what the! What has occurred?

CO: And you didn't know that the man down on the ground had just rammed into…

AD: Like ten people. Well, more than ten people. Like 25 people.

CO: Yeah, about 25 people... 24. And you know does it change your view? Knowing what you did about Sammy Yatim and all that, that's something that stayed with you, I guess?

AD: Yes, because that was something that from anybody that I've ever spoken to I don't think what the officers did in that situation was right, right? So we all have that in the back of our heads no matter what whenever a confrontation like that occurs, right?

CO: And so do you have friends and people who are concerned when the police pull you over because of what you remember about that Sammy Yatim?

AD: Yeah, sometimes they are a little aggressive for absolutely no reason just like it seems frightening because they approach the vehicle with like their hands on their gun and stuff. You are just speeding a little bit, and next thing you know, an officer is approaching you with his hand on his gun. And you’re kind of like OK, what have I really done wrong here — like I was going ten miles over the speed limit here.

CO: When you watch what you just saw about Constable Ken Lam, does that change how you think about the police in Toronto?

AD: Oh, definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely. That's like how an officer is supposed to be. That’s how he’s supposed to react to situations. That's what they should get paid. That’s like for that serve and protect. Oh my gosh, I'm speechless about the guy. The guy is remarkable, remarkable.

CO: If you could talk to him now that you know what the whole story is, what would you say to Constable Lam?

AD: Oh my gosh, I want to give him a big hug, he did such a great thing, God bless him so much in life. May he prosper through so many things. May he be like awarded and rewarded for his heroism. And I'm like very proud of this, even like being around his presence for him to even ask me to help in the middle of this. Like amazing, amazing gentleman, amazing human being.

CO: Asher, I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

AD: OK, no problem. Have a great day.

CO: Take care.

JD: Asher Din was a witness to yesterday's tense standoff between Toronto police constable Ken Lam, and the suspected driver of the deadly van attack, whom police have identified as Alek Minassian. At a press conference today, Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders spoke about Constable Lam's actions, and the de-escalation training that police officers get. Here's part of what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

MARK SAUNDERS: I've had a very brief opportunity to speak with him, he's doing well, he's very thankful for all of the support. He basically expresses he defaults it to his training under the circumstance. And we're doing anything and everything to make sure that his wellbeing is looked after.

REPORTER: Do you think your officer showed remarkable restraint, or was he showing remarkable training?

MS: Well, I mean it's a combination of both. As an organization, one of the aspects of policing in today's environment we find out more if our calls for service involve a lot of aspects that require More de-escalation. We've added a third day within our organization that specific to de-escalation, and our training at the police college as well speaks to de-escalation. More people will be dealing with de-escalation than pulling out their firearms. And so it is a focal point of our training piece. Having said that, that particular situation yesterday the way in which it went down was nothing short of remarkable.

JD: Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders, speaking to reporters earlier today.

[Music: Acoustic guitar]

Uranus farts

Guest: Patrick Irwin

JD: For years, scientists have speculated about Uranus. So much about Uranus was a mystery. But they knew one thing was for sure: Uranus was surrounded by gas clouds. OK, I know — technically, astronomers prefer the pronunciation Uranus. But given the subject matter, my original pronunciation seems more apt — also, more juvenile. What I'm getting at is this: that scientists could see the clouds of gas around Uranus, of course. But they didn't know what they were made of, or how they smelled. Now, the verdict is in. According to a new study published in Nature Astronomy, the upper atmosphere of Uranus is composed largely of Hydrogen Sulfide — it reeks. Patrick Irwin is a professor of planetary physics at Oxford University, and the lead author of the study. We reached him in Oxford.

CO: Professor Irwin, if a person were to descend through the clouds of Uranus, what would they smell?

PATRICK IRWIN: Well, if they could survive the drop down to Uranus, they’d smell a horrible smell of rotten eggs.

CO: All right, tell us a bit about that. What would be the smell, and what's it from?

PI: Well, I mean when an egg goes bad, it releases this gas hydrogen sulfide, and that's what we normally associate the smell with. But it's actually a significant component of all the giant planets. And when I say significant, it’s about the fourth most abundant molecule most of these planet. But for Uranus, it seems that it's more abundant than ammonia, which is the opposite to what we find in Jupiter and Saturn, where ammonia is the more abundant of the two.

CO: And did you know that before that this was the predominant gas? We'll clear this up: Uranus or Uranus?

PI: Well, we tend to call Uranus because Uranus sounds a bit too rude.

CO: Especially when you're talking about a gas that smells like farts.

PI: Indeed.

CO: Okay. All right, and Uranus or Uranus — however rude you want to be — did you know before that this was the predominant gas?

PI: We thought it was probably there. The observations from microwave observations from several decades ago which pointed to there being some kind of absorber there, which we thought probably hydrogen sulfide. And for the clouds that we can see on Uranus, they're at a pressure level which would be sort of consistent with what we'd expect for hydrogen sulfide. But we've never actually been able to get absolutely say for certain that it really is, until these new measurements were just made where we can actually see the fingerprints of hydrogen sulfide about the clouds.

CO: But we talk about what it would smell like. I mean this is, as you point out, you wouldn't survive being in the gases around Uranus. But if you could, is there any way to detect that? Is there any way to actually know what the atmosphere would be like?

PI: I'm sure anyone’s really looked to see what the human nose would do in a hydrogen-helium atmosphere with a bit of hydrogen sulfide. But I would imagine that you still smell this pungent aroma. I mean hydrogen sulfide is this smelly gas, and its associated with farts and all the rest of it. But it’s actually a very poisonous gas. And one of the reasons why your nose is very well attuned to pick it up is because it's very bad for you.

CO: But in what concentrations? I mean being in a room with farts or rotten eggs is not enough to kill you, but would this be enough to actually do some serious damage to a person if they were in a room with this concentration of hydrogen sulfide?

PI: Not in the cloud parts, but if you send it deeper into the atmosphere, the abundances would rise to levels which would not be not be healthy for you.

CO: There are plans to actually get close to Uranus or Uranus, and take a closer look. What are the next stages in actually learning more about the atmosphere around it?

PI: Yeah, well I mean so far, Uranus has only had a single flyby from Voyager 2. And that returned a huge amount of information. And since then, we're doing an awful lot more from the ground because ground-based telescopes have got better and better. But there’s still nothing quite as good as getting into orbit around something because you look on the on the side away from the sun, you can measure the temperatures much better — and so an orbiter in orbit around Uranus would be able to measure the temperature at all points on the atmosphere of Uranus, and also able to detect the signatures of gases. So these planets are extremely cold, so if looking for these seven emission from them, it's very hard to do that from the earth. And it’s been done from some telescopes and from the Spitzer telescope. But to do it properly, we really need to get into orbit around Uranus.

CO: And is that in the works? Is that something that might happen?

PI: It’s something that many people working with these data would want to happen, and we're actually sort of supporting proposals to NASA and also to ESA to eventually get a Uranus mission onto the flight plan. So far, we haven't been successful, but we'll keep on going. And eventually, we hope to get an orbiter to go to Uranus.

CO: And you're hoping that as well you're still working on this, so you can actually take advantage of that data.

PI: Yes, I doubt it somehow. These things take an awful long time to get approved, and built, and, of course, Uranus is a long, long way from the sun too. So to get out there and to get into orbit would take we’re talking decades.

CO: Now knowing that there is this hydrogen sulfide, does it tell you anything more about how the planets are formed? Or how Uranus was formed?

PI: Yeah, so for the Uranus, we now know that there's more sulfur than there is nitrogen. Whereas, for Jupiter and Saturn, It’s the other way around — we know there’s more nitrogen than sulphur. And so what we think that means is that probably when the solar system was forming, there was the sun in the middle, and there was sort of large disk of material going around it. And as you go further away from the sun, the temperature gets colder and colder. So what we think is for Jupiter and Saturn where they formed, ammonia was probably mostly an icy form that Hydrogen sulfide was still a gas and so less easily absorbed as the planet grew. Whereas, for your Uranus and I would guess Neptune, they formed further out where hydrogen sulfide was also in icy form, and so could be connected by the planet. So that suggests that these planets haven't actually sort of swapped position relative to each other. When you sort of run models of planetary formation, planets don't just stay where they are in these models. They do sort of move into the sun, or move outwards away from the sun. And it's even been suggested that in some cases, two planets could swap positions with each other. I mean I guess that's still possible from the models, but it would seem that that did not happen for our solar system because it looks like Uranus did really form further away from the sun than Jupiter and Saturn.

CO: We'll leave it there. Professor Irwin, thank you for talking about Uranus. And thank you for… there’s an adolescent tendency here it “As It Happens”, so when can we can talk about Uranus smells like farts it’s always fun for us. All right. We did it; it’s done. Anyway, good to talk to you, Professor. Thank you.

PI: OK, and you.

CO: Bye bye.

PI: Thanks.

JD: Patrick Irwin is a professor of planetary physics at Oxford University. We reached him in Oxford. And we have posted that story to our website. We do hope you enjoy the headline as much as we do.

[Music: Hip-hop]

Macron dandruff

JD: He held hands with British Prime Minister Theresa May. Held a glowing orb with King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. Appeared to hold a grudge against Angela Merkel of Germany. And held awkwardly long, competitive-looking handshakes with Shinzo Abe of Japan, Canada's Justin Trudeau, and French President Emmanuel Macron. The meetings U.S. President Donald Trump has held with world leaders have all been memorable. Not so much because of any subsequent agreement or shared policy announcement, but because of some odd thing the President has done — for example, all of those examples. Now, President Macron already knew his American counterpart doesn't hold back when he's holding forth. When the two men were last together, President Trump shook hands with him for a full, endless-seeming 29 seconds. And so the French president already knew that, on his state visit to Washington this week, things might get weird. Now, I'm sure he held out hope that they wouldn't. But today, during a photo op in the Oval Office, they did.

SOUNDCLIP

DONALD TRUMP: It’s a great honour. A great honour that you’re here, but we do have a very special relationship. In fact, I’ll get that little piece of dandruff off. We have to make him perfect; he is perfect. So it is really great to be with you, and you are a special friend. Thank you.

JD: That was the president of the United States, Donald Trump, publicly brushing dandruff off the shoulder of French President Emanuel Macron, and announcing to anyone and everyone that he's doing it. President Macron held still while President Trump held court. And he managed to hold his tongue, and hold it together afterwards. Because he's learned that when you're visiting Washington these days, you just have to hold your own.

Part three: Van attack: doctor, rocket crash

Van attack: doctor

Guest: Avery Nathens

JD: The scene on Yonge Street after yesterday's van attack in Toronto was described as, quote, "total chaos". And soon afterwards, the victims of that chaos began arriving at Sunnybrook Hospital. Dr. Avery Nathens is the medical director of trauma services at Sunnybrook; he was in the ER yesterday. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Dr. Nathens, when did victims of this attack start arriving at your hospital yesterday?

AVERY NATHENS: They probably started arriving at Sunnybrook probably just around 2:00 p.m. yesterday afternoon. And they came in rapid succession for about the next 30 minutes or so after that.

CO: Can you describe what that was like?

AN: Well, in advance of the first patient arriving, there was a code orange call on the overhead. And code orange for us is an indication that there's potentially a mass-casualty event. And then as we received the patients, we rapidly determined you know what their life-threatening injuries were, and then ensured that these patients got the care they required. So some went directly to the operating room, some went directly to the CT scanner, and some patients waited until they had additional tests to decide what they needed first.

CO: How many people arrived with no vital signs?

AN: There were two patients.

CO: What were the conditions of the others?

AN: All of the other patients had what we call severe injuries. And many of the injuries involved many different parts of the body, including head, neck, chest, abdomen. They're very typical injuries that we see with car crashes, and pedestrians who were hit by cars. What was different here was just the sheer number of patients over a short time interval.

CO: And how many patients altogether did you see at your hospital?

AN: So in addition to the two patients who came without vital signs, there's eight patients, so ten in total.

CO: Were you told what to expect — what had happened? When you get a code orange, do they give you the background story to what has happened, and who might be arriving?

AN: Well, as you can imagine, the information that we receive is very limited, and pretty high level. So all we heard was that there was a van that hit a number of people, and there were anticipated multiple casualties. But that's all the information that we had to act on initially, and that helped guide to resources in terms of how many beds we might need, and in terms of how many operating rooms. But that's all the information we had at the beginning.

CO: And given that we had so little information here in the news departments as well as to what had happened, and the speculation, the wonder if this was a terrorist attack, if there were other people involved or whatever. What kind of security measures did you put in place at the hospital?

AN: Well, the hospital goes on lockdown, which simply means that we have security posted at every one of the entrances just to control access. Certainly, patients who need care still come to Sunnybrook, but we just control access to the facility by virtue of having security present. Now, that's all that changed from that perspective. As far as the individual docs were concerned — docs and nurses — we had to organized this so that each of the patients had their own team of docs and nurses, and those docs and nurses only had to focus on that patient. And they didn't have to get distracted with what might be happening outside. So that allowed them to focus entirely on the patient in front of them, while others focused on the bigger picture and making sure that the right patients received the operating and when they needed the operating room, or the CT scanner, or other emergency care. So that worked quite well. We've been practicing this now for the past year. And I would say that the lessons learned from our drills have been very effective at allowing us to respond appropriately yesterday.

CO: You've been practicing this for a year for what purpose?

AN: Well, you know we felt that if there was going to be a mass-casualty event, and given what we're seeing south of the border, we felt unfortunately it was a matter of time before something happened here — whether it was accidental or intentional. So we wanted to make sure that we had a plan in place. So as of last year, we began doing these drills. These drills are probably going to occur every month, but every drill that we do we learn from. And those learnings paid off yesterday.

CO: This was not a drill. And so did it work? Did you find that all those drills and the training actually paid off?

AN: Oh, absolutely. You know I would say that in the early days, when we were doing drills we learned that we didn't have enough stretchers for example. Well, that problem was solved. And that was not an issue yesterday. We also learned how to make sure that operating rooms were available. And we tried to make sure that the right people were in the emergency department receiving patients, so all of those occurred as a result of lessons learned from the drills.

CO: I understand that there were 14 people injured, in addition to the 10 who were killed. It seems that you would have more than half of those. How are injured people doing? How many are in critical care? Can you give us a breakdown?

AN: Yes, so there's five patients who are what we call critical, and three in serious condition. And so everybody is still in an ICU setting, and receiving the care they require from a multitude of providers, including the intensive care docs, orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons, trauma surgeons. So everyone is doing what they do every day, just they’re doing it in a higher volume with the same level of care, same quality as they would give every patient.

CO: Did you get much sleep last night?

AN: It wasn't a bad night last night. You know I would say that during the event itself, you're not really thinking about much. And you know trouble sleeping last night was more around reflecting on the events. And you know the sadness around the patients and families who are clearly affected by this. And making sure the staff are well supported here at Sunnybrook, so they can do what they need to do.

CO: How difficult was it for them? Emotionally, I mean?

AN: So I think we're really getting a sense of that, and we probably will over the next few days. But I will say these are professionals, and they did what they do every day yesterday. And they will continue to do it. But we will make sure that they're well supported. So we will have those resources in place as required. But everyone is doing their job, and they are very proud of working at Sunnybrook, and working as a team.

CO: I'm glad you were there. I'm glad you had all that support, Dr. Nathens. Thanks for speaking with us.

AN: Thanks so much. Bye bye.

JD: Dr. Avery Nathens is the medical director of trauma services at Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto. Ten of the people injured in yesterday's attack were sent to the emergency room there.

[Music: ambient]

Suzuki degree

JD: The University of Alberta is not backing down. For days now, the university has been under fire for its decision to grant David Suzuki an honourary degree. The university's engineering dean called it a betrayal. One of its economists vowed he would never share a stage with the high-profile environmentalist. And a Calgary law firm pulled a donation in protest. This afternoon, the university's president reiterated that David Suzuki will get his honourary degree in June. In a statement, David Turpin wrote, quote, "We will stand by our decision because our reputation as a university — an institution founded on the principles of freedom of inquiry, academic integrity, and independence — depends on it." Unquote. That explanation is not good enough for Conservative MP Matt Jeneroux. This morning, the University of Alberta alumnus spoke to CBC Calgary about his decision to write a letter of protest about the Suzuki degree. Here is part of what he had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

MATT JENEROUX: Well, you know I think Dr. Suzuki definitely has a lot of opinions that to counter a lot of the discussion that we're having right now on the Kinder Morgan Tran Mountain pipeline. And you know I certainly don't argue that he's not entitled to his opinions. But my opinion is that he's certainly not entitled to the awards for that opinion. This is a guy who has equated our natural resources sector to the 19^th-century slave owners. You know so when we're in this discussion, and quite frankly, a national crisis on the topic of oil and gas sector. And now we have a prominent university within our country deciding to award a honourary degree. You know I think that's a decision that optically doesn't look good right now. The university of Alberta — which has many donors who are employed in the oil and gas sector up in Fort McMurray and across the country — see this message of what giving an honourary degree to an individual who doesn't support their industry, and quite frankly, is a rampant opponent against it definitely sends the wrong message to those individuals, and certainly a number of individuals who are out of work at this time. At the end of day, I hope that the president makes the right decision and decides to not go ahead with the honourary degree for Dr. Suzuki.

JD: That was Conservative MP, and UofA alumnus Matt Jeneroux, speaking earlier today to CBC Calgary. “As It Happens” did contact the David Suzuki Foundation for a response from Dr. Suzuki. He is not commenting on the controversy.

[Music: Jazz]

Proposal walker

JD: Long-distance relationships are hard. And so are long-distance walks, as Nigel Jenkins just leared. Mr. Jenkins has been dating his girlfriend, Stephanie Powell, for about a year when he decided to make the leap, and propose. She lives in Corner Brook, Newfoundland; he's in Halifax. So Mr. Jenkins decided to walk to her. So, here he is, along with Ms. Powell, telling CBC Newfoundland's Meghan McCabe how that worked out.

SOUNDCLIP

NIGEL JENKINS: Anyway, this one day I was on the treadmill at the gym just doing some walking, and I was listening to “Beast of Burden” by The Rolling Stones. And in that song, Mick Jagger sings “I'd walk from Miles/ My feet are hurtin/ And all I want is for you to make love to me. That's exactly sung, is it? So I’m listening to that, and it clicks. I think Oh great, I'll walk to Stephanie. That seems like a romantic idea. She lives in Corner Brook, Newfoundland, and I live in Halifax. And the idea of walking to her as the big gesture thing seemed you know romantic, and courageous, and like it would be a lot of fun. Also spoiler alert: turns out it wasn't. And then the morning of April 5^th, I left to go on my walk. So the first leg of the walk was to be the 35 kilometres between my house in Halifax and the airport in Enfield, Nova Scotia — the Halifax airport. And I mean for the most part, it was a fine walk. Three of the four last kilometres were pretty sketchy. I ended up at this like dead-end that turned into an old road through the woods. But I made it out of the woods and to the hotel. And then I was sitting down on the bed taking off my socks and shoes, and I have got these like gigantic blisters all over the back of my heels, sticking off my foot a solid inch, like red just blood blisters. And that's what I had to stop and think about what I was doing. After a little self-reflection, I cancelled the hotels that I had booked. I cancelled my ferry. It was a good thing because I woke up the next morning, and I couldn't walk, I couldn't put my shoes on.

STEPHANIE POWELL: Oh my gosh, I think it's so overwhelming, and it's so wonderful to know that someone loves you that much that that’s the kind of lengths they would go to.

JD: That was Stephanie Powell and Nigel Jenkins, speaking to CBC Newfoundland’s Meghan McCabe. And yes, Nigel did eventually ask Stephanie to marry him. And yes, she said yes.

[Music: Ambient]

Rocket crash

Guest: Michael Byers

JD: Tomorrow at 1:57 pm Eastern time, a Cold War-era rocket is scheduled to be launched from Russia by the European Space Agency. It will be carrying a climate-change monitoring satellite into orbit. And then, 15 to 20 minutes later, the spent stage is expected to land in the waters of the Canadian Arctic. That's concerning because hydrazine, which is the fuel used to power these rockets, is so toxic and carcinogenic that almost every space program in the world — including Russia's — no longer uses it. The federal government has filed diplomatic protests with Russia before previous launches. And the government of Nunavut argues the launches put Inuit residents at needless risk. Michael Byers is a professor of political science at the University of British Columbia. We reached him on Salt Spring Island.

CO: Professor Byers, why is the European Space Agency using a Cold War-era rocket to launch this climate-change monitoring satellite?

MICHAEL BYERS: Because it will save them money. These repurposed intercontinental ballistic missiles were built in the 1980s. The Russian space agency has a stockpile of 80 of them. And so this is a cost-competitive way of competing with other launch services like Space X in the United States.

CO: So what are the consequences when the staging for this rocket comes back down to earth?

MB: Well, the problem with these rockets is that they use an old-fashioned rocket fuel — something called unsymmetrical de methyl hydrazine, or hydrazine for short. And this fuel was used by the Soviet Union in the Cold War because it's very stable. The problem with hydrazine is that it's highly toxic. It's a known carcinogen. It's caused widespread, well-documented health and environmental damage across Russia and Kazakhstan. And the problem is that when the first and the second stages of these rockets come back to Earth, they carry a certain amount of residual fuel, which can pollute the ocean, and can also be spread through the air if the fuel tank ruptures during the re-entry.

CO: But they're claiming that European Space Agency officials say that the hydrazine will be burned up upon re-entering the atmosphere.

MB: Well, I know they say that, but they'd have to explain away all of the Russian scientific documents on the damage caused by the exact same re-entry and rocket stages. And they'd also have to explain a remarkable amateur video that was taken a little over two years ago by a U.S. Air Force employee from northern Greenland. And this airman captured a re-entry of a second stage coming into Baffin Bay on his GoPro. And it not only shows the second stage coming back as a bright light towards Earth. But partway through its trajectory, it breaks up into two bright lights — one of which remain stationary. And the only explanation I was able to come up with after 12 months of research was that that stationary light was, in fact, a cloud of vaporized hydrazine, which would then drift down over hundreds of square kilometres depending on the wind over Greenland, over Ellesmere Island, over the North Water polynya, which is the area of water between those two islands, which is the richest biological area in the entire circumpolar Arctic.

CO: So what are the consequences to Baffin Bay area where this is going to land? What's the significance of that?

MB: Well, we don't know the consequences. That's the problem. We have lots of scientific evidence of damage caused by hydrazine from rocket stages in Russia, in Kazakhstan. But we have no research on the effects in the Arctic or in ocean water. We also know that there are health risks, and there are people who live in the Canadian Arctic. In fact, hunters from Greece fjord, from Pond Inlet, from communities along the west coast of Greenland travel out to the ice edge this time of year, and could potentially be exposed. So we know there's a risk. We don't know whether it's a tiny risk or whether it's a large risk, but we certainly know that it's illegal for a foreign country to drop toxic fuel into Canadian territories or the Canadian Exclusive Economic Zone knowing that there is a risk. And that's why I've been calling on the Canadian government to stop these launches from taking place. On previous occasions, the Canadian government has issued diplomatic protests. But obviously, they've had no effect.

CO: You know that the Russian Embassy in Canada calls your research emotionally-charged, and alarmist. That they say you have no evidence to say or no way to prove that there will be damage to the environment. What do you say to them?

MB: Well, after they accuse me of that, I spent 12 months writing a very detailed academic article. It went through extensive peer-review, including a chemist, including an oceanographer, a rocket scientist, an international lawyer. It was published last September, so it's not me who's saying this. It's the journal Polar Record, Cambridge University Press.

CO: The government in Nunavut is it making preparations? Is it warning its people to be aware of hydrazine and the effects it might have?

MB: Well, this is one of the remarkable things. The Canadian government has known about this practice for more than a decade. There have been 11 or 12 of these returning rocket stages landing in Baffin Bay. Commercial airline pilots are warned of the risk. Ships captains are warned of the risk. But as far as I've been able to find out, local communities have never been warned.

CO: So what advice would you give them? I mean this is going to happen — this is this is going to take place tomorrow — this rocket stages is going to come back to Earth. What can they do to protect themselves?

MB: If anyone in Greece Fjord or Pond Inlet is listening to this, you probably don't want to go out on the sea ice tomorrow after 2:00 p.m. Eastern. And if I were living in Greece Fjord or Pond Inlet, I would stay indoors for roughly 24 hours. Not because I think that that the risk is particularly high, but because there is certainly some risk. And until the Canadian government does some serious science to find out whether the same kinds of cancers that are turning up in Russia and Kazakhstan exist in these communities, there's complete uncertainty. So stay indoors, stay safe, and make sure that the Canadian government knows that the current situation is unacceptable. Put real pressure on Russia and the European Space Agency. We're an affiliated member of the European Space Agency. We must have leverage there. See if we can encourage them to move on to their newer non-toxic rockets. To stop using these old Cold War missiles as they've been doing the last ten years. Take Russia over the European Space Agency to court internationally to try to put pressure on them. The current pattern is a diplomatic protest, and then six months later, another upcoming launch, another protest, and the pattern is unacceptable.

CO: I guess the added irony is that this rocket is to launch a climate-change monitoring satellite.

MB: Yeah, the Sentinel 3V is one of the world's most important environmental monitoring satellites. This is measuring the effects of climate change upon the oceans. This is a good satellite. I just wish it was being launched on a newer non-toxic rocket.

CO: We will leave it there. Professor Byers, thank you.

MB: Well, thank you for your interest.

JD: Michael Byers is a professor of political science at UBC. We reached him on Salt Spring Island, B.C.

[Music: Ambient]

Vancouver Chinese apology

JD: Last Sunday, a crowd gathered at the Chinese Cultural Centre in Vancouver's Chinatown. The occasion was a lot more momentous than a ribbon-cutting. Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson issued a formal apology to Chinese-Canadians for decades of past discrimination. He said it was an effort to, quote, "recognize historical wrongdoings committed against Chinese people, and to build a better future together". Unquote. Here's some of Mayor Robertson's apology, which was read in both English and Cantonese — followed by some reaction from the community.

SOUNDCLIP

GREGOR ROBERTSON: Ever since Vancouver held its very first council meeting back in 1886, at that meeting, one of the first laws passed was to deny people of certain communities, including those of Chinese descent the right to vote. They were also denied the right to run for public office, denied the right to study for and to enter certain official positions, and denied the right from owning properties in some areas of the city. They were completely and utterly disenfranchised.

GUEST: I think it’s about time, you know? My father and my grandfather paid the head tax to come to Canada. My mother went back to China, Canton, I was born in 1949. I immigrated here when I was 13. So imagine that what? 13 years, I hadn’t seen my father so that's because the Chinese Exclusion Act. So that's a hardship, right? So it's good to have this right for the younger generation to know the history. It’s not to honour or remember the atrocity, what-have-you. But it's good that the city is sincere to apologize.

GUEST TWO: So, I’m very happy with the apology. And I just want to see them do a better job with Chinatown rezoning. Keep the character of Chinatown.

GUEST THREE: The heritage of Chinatown is based on community, the grocers, the small-town businesses, the people that have been living here, the seniors, and to listen to the community. Communities grant the permission for what’s going on, and it must start from the community.

JD: That was some of the reaction from a crowd of more than 500, who gathered at Vancouver's Chinese Cultural Centre on Sunday to hear Mayor Gregor Robertson issue a formal apology. As you heard, they mayor apologized for the city's decades of discriminatory legislation against Chinese-Canadians.

[Music: Ambient]

Massive Attack DNA

JD: For me, it was cassettes. There was nothing like picking and peeling the plastic off a brand-new tape case. Then, there were the CDs — CDs don’t cut it anymore. You can't hold an mp3 in your hands. Vinyl might be making a comeback, but there are no plants really to press the records. It's been while since there's been a universal physical format for listening to tunes. Massive Attack may have just created the next big thing. Mind you, they needed a whole team of scientists at Swiss university’s ETH Zurich to do it. To mark the 20th anniversary of their ground-breaking album "Mezzanine", the British trip-hop group announced they are reissuing it in DNA form. Yes, DNA — as in the building blocks of life — that kind of DNA. According to the scientists who developed the technology to pull this off, digital files of the songs will be converted into 920,000 strands of DNA. Those strands will then be stored in 5,000 tiny "nanometre-sized" glass spheres. Music stored in DNA could last for thousands of years — much better than cassettes. As one scientist pointed out, quote, "It could be an answer to the problem of archiving the increasing amount of information that the world is creating." Unquote.

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April 24, 2018 episode transcript

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