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The AIH Transcript for June 22, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[music: theme]

CH: Tonight:

CH: No parking zone. The city of Toronto tries to forcibly evict residents of an encampment in a downtown park — but an Ontario MP tells us that's not how you solve a homelessness crisis, especially during COVID.

CO: Beating the odds. The women's Tour de France will make a comeback next summer, after a 30 year hiatus — but some activists who pushed for its return say the main organizer behind the event is betting on them to fail.

CH: Talon show. A log rolling champion in Nova Scotia tells us about taking some promising young athletes under his wing — who happen to be crows.

CO: Grasping at straws. If hiccups are driving you to drink, try using a new-fangled plastic tube that claims to be 90 per cent effective at fixing the hics.

CH: And writhing to the occasion. A California biologist shares her enlightening, horrifying research on a certain eel, its formidable eating ability and its super gross double set of jaws — one of which is in its throat.

CH: As it happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that leaves you wanting moray.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: China Detention Report, Tour De France Women, California Eels Ramp

China Detention Report

Guest: Laura Harth

CH: Laura Harth is trying to shed some light on China's secret prisons — prisons like the ones where Canadians Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor have been held in the past. Ms. Harth is a Campaign Director with Safeguard Defenders. The human rights group has just released a report on what China calls "Residential Surveillance at a Designated Location" facilities. They're the extrajudicial detention centres where Ms. Harth and her colleagues say that thousands of Chinese people have been held without trial or access to legal recourse. We reached Laura Harth in Rome. And a warning: she will be discussing torture.

CO: Laura, first of all, can you tell us whatever you can about the conditions in these jails where Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig, the two Canadians, are being held?

LAURA HARTH: So it's a system of private jails basically being operated by China's secret police or the Public Security Bureau. And what we've documented on the basis of so many testimonies is the conditions in which the two Michaels have been held at the beginning of their ordeal. They've been held there for up to six months without, you know, access to... to lawyers. With little or no access, consular access notwithstanding, you know, the agreements that Canada has with the People's Republic of China. They've most likely been subjected to... to torture, definitely to severe and long interrogations where we, on the basis of the testimonies we have, we can be certain that several interrogation techniques were used, heavy pressure will have been exercised for them to confess to anything.

CO: So the first six months, the two Michaels were part of that system. You have documented that tens of thousands of Chinese detainees are swept up in this system, and we know very little about where they're being held. What have you been able to learn?

LH: The idea of this system is that it's outside the official detention system. So these are not prisons. These might be old police stations. These might be buildings, you know, registered to companies. It's a system designed to use, I think, kind of enhanced interrogation because of the terror and the fear that it's inciting in people. It's also definitely used to intimidate human rights defenders, human rights lawyers, dissidents, people that are willing to speak up.

CO: Now, the system is possible because of a change in Chinese law in 2013 that allows for the police to have sweeping powers to detain. Is that this RSDL system that you're documenting?

LH: That is exactly what the RSDL system is. It's before arrest. It's before formal detention. So these people have not yet been in trials. So it's completely... it's amounting to arbitrary detention. 10 U.N. special procedures have called it enforced disappearances. They've written a joint letter of allegation to the Chinese government. But the Chinese government obviously has not responded yet. So it's proof of a widespread and systematic grave human rights abuse going on in China at this very moment. But I think if people look at the report, it really takes you inside these prisons. It shows you like in a first-person narrative, what happens from the very moment you are taken, maybe in the middle of the night at your home, in a hotel room, maybe while you're having lunch somewhere when you're being black-hooded and brought to this secret prison, secret detention cell where you held incommunicado, you have no connection to the outside world. You don't know where you are. You don't know how long you're going to be held. Torture is being used. Interrogations are being performed.

CO: You have testimony of at least one person, who... a Beijing-based human rights activist, who actually describes what it's like, just the kinds of ways that they are tortured in these facilities. And so, can you tell us a bit about what you learned from him?

LH: The very way people are being held in incommunicado detention with the lights on 24 hours a day, you know, being watched all the time. This in itself obviously amounts to both physical and mental torture. But then, we have the more, let's say, what people who recognize immediately as torture, you know, people are being held in what's called this confession chair. It's a tiger chair. So you're bound up. You can't move during interrogations. And obviously, this used you to pressure you. People are being shackled hands and feet. So you can't actually stand up. You can't walk straight. And you are being held in this for hours, maybe even days. So even while you're trying to sleep, this is very hard. Sleeping, for example, with these people watching you all the time, even the very small things, they're taking notes they will wake you up, maybe because you have your hands beneath the cover, which is not allowed. They may be beaten. If you are a female, there's always the extra danger of sexual humiliation, harassment. They may verbally shame you. They may ask you to strip naked. They may threaten you with sexual violence. But they may also perform actual sexual violence. Also, psychological torture is very much used because this is a system designed to intimidate, not only to punish you but maybe to rat out other people that they are interested in. So if the physical torture doesn't break you, they may threaten to keep you there for years. They may threaten to kill you, but they will also use your family, your loved ones, against you. So they may threaten to detain them as well. They may threaten to physically assault them. They may even threaten to kill them and maybe show you pictures, you know, we know where they are. And so, it's just the system that is rife with abuse. And obviously, it's designed, actually. And since there are no judicial bounds, since there is no judicial oversight, it's just a perfect environment for this kind of torture to continue, which is exactly what the U.N. denounced in 2018.

CO: So, how do you know that in your report, you think that at least 20,000 Chinese citizens have gone through this system? How do you know if there is so little documentation?

LH: Well, because there is some logging of the system since it started in 2013. Because some of the cases, those that are going to trial and actually lead to verdicts, which we have credible evidence to believe this is just a small part, this is not the majority of the cases, a small part of it. These are actually logged within the system. So on the basis of this, we can make calculations. The official data reported by China indicates around just above 27,000 victims so far. But again, there may be many, many more. So these are very prudent estimates that we make on the basis of the knowledge that we have and the official data that is available.

CO: Laura, we will leave it there. And I appreciate your report. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

LH: Thank you so much, Carol.

CH: Laura Harth is a Campaign Director with the human rights group Safeguard Defenders. We reached her in Rome. And Prime Minister Trudeau had some sharp words for China today. Canada has joined a call at the United Nations Human Rights Council for China to allow outside observers to assess the detention of Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang. Beijing has, in turn, called for a U.N. investigation into Canada's treatment of Indigenous people. Mr. Trudeau was asked by a reporter about the comparison.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: I think it's extremely important that all of us as Canadians, but indeed as citizens around the world, pay attention to what's going on in China. The systemic abuse and... and human rights violations against the Muslim Uyghurs, the concerns about the situation in Hong Kong and Tibet. These are things that matter not just to people living in China, but to people around the world. And we are very, very pleased to see not only our strongest allies in the G7 and in Europe align themselves with Canada's position, but a total of 44 countries from all different corners of the world, highlighting that it is of all of our concern to be speaking out against human rights abuses everywhere around the world, and particularly in China in this situation. In Canada, we had a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Where is China's Truth and Reconciliation Commission? Where is their truth? Where is the openness that Canada has always shown, and the responsibility that Canada has taken for the terrible mistakes of the past, and indeed, many of which continue into the present? We have, over the past six years, recognized that the relationship with Indigenous Canadians had been broken over generations and centuries and needed to be fixed. And that started with recognizing the truth and moving towards reconciliation, both things that are still very much works in progress. The journey of reconciliation is a long one, but it is a journey we are on. China is not recognizing even that there is a problem. That is a pretty fundamental difference, and that is why Canadians and people from around the world are speaking up for people like the Uyghurs, who find themselves voiceless, faced with a government that will not recognize what's happening to them.

CH: That was Prime Minister Trudeau in Ottawa today.

[music: folk]

Tour De France Women

Guest: Kathryn Bertine

CH: Like the race itself, it was an uphill battle. For decades, women have been left out of the cycling world's crown jewel, the Tour de France. The last official women's tour was in 1989. Organizers shut the event down, citing lack of revenue and an inadequate fanbase. But now, after years of pushback from cyclists, the women's Tour de France will be making a comeback next summer. Kathryn Bertine is a former professional cyclist... and one of the people who campaigned for the return of the women's Tour De France. We reached her in Tucson, Arizona.

CO: Kathryn, how does it feel to know that the Tour de France Femmes is on the schedule for next year?

KATHRYN BERTINE: It feels tremendous. I am so excited. It's been a long time coming. And we've been hard at work behind the scenes.

CO: But there are other races for women cyclists, right? So what is the importance, what's the significance of having a Tour de France for women?

KB: Great question! And yes, there are races for women, especially at the professional level. And the real significance of having women at the Tour de France is the fact that that is the pinnacle event of cycling. Just about, you know, 99 per cent of people know that the Tour de France is a bike race in France. [chuckling] And for so long to not have women associated with this race really was disparaging in many ways, not just in the sport, but in society to not have women at the professional level have access to the Tour de France. So it's a real game-changer that now there will be a women's race.

CO: Now, Christian Prudhomme, who is the organizer of the Tour de France, as you know, he said that the reason that there was a Tour de France Femmes back in the 80s, and it ceased to exist because he says, today all women's races that we organize lose money. [KB chuckles] And so that's why it didn't... it didn't succeed. That it was... that it was just a money loser. Was that the reason why that didn't succeed?

KB: Prudhomme's response is pretty outdated. The reason that the race didn't succeed was twofold. One, because ASO pulled the event to make way for men's broadcasting without actually involving the women's race in the broadcast rights. So also to say that it loses money is not true. It lost the investment. ASO did not invest in the women in order to create a sustainable model for the race to succeed. So for him to kind of flip it around and say, oh, the women's race lost money, that's not accurate. It's that ASO didn't invest in the women at all.

CO: And ASO is the Amaury Sports Organization, that is the one that runs the race, right?

KB: Correct. That's the parent company of the Tour de France.

CO: But so didn't invest in what way? What did... what did they fail to do in the 80s that they have to do in order to make this successful this time?

KB: Right. So, honestly, what will make any sport succeed is having the media presence. And back then, in the 80s, that was television, right? So to have televised coverage of the Tour de France was huge. And that's what helped augment the Tour de France to a global platform. And today, of course, we have so many forms of media. We have livestream. We have television. We have everything. And investing in women, not just in cycling, but in all sports, so that they get equal coverage to their male counterparts is what makes a sport succeed. And we've obviously seen evidence of this at the Olympics, at Wimbledon, you know, tennis. We've seen amazing areas where if we turn on the TV and we see the men playing, we are guaranteed that the women will also have equal coverage, and we will see them on TV as well. So we have to make sure that that model is in place for the Tour de France Femmes as well.

CO: What guarantees have you had from the ASO that it will be in place?

KB: Great, great question! So that's... that's what we're up against right now, is we don't have an answer to that yet. What I'm hoping is that ASO is indeed securing the broadcast rights. They’re the ones... since they own the race, they're the ones that have the ability to sell the broadcasting rights. And I know this from our involvement in La Course by Tour de France in 2014. At that point, when they did secure and sell broadcast rights to over 125 countries that watch this race over about 54 different television and/or livestream platforms, that's what made the race so successful back then. So we need the same thing to happen. And that's the one complication is that ASO is in power of this race, either succeeding or failing, depending on how they broker the broadcast rights.

CO: How different will the women's race be from the men's? Besides, the length of this tour for the women will run for eight days, the men's runs for three weeks. So what… in what other ways will it be different?

KB: When it comes to racing, from the athletic perspective, there is not a lot of difference between the world tour women's races and the men's races. You're watching the best of the best compete. And maybe we have more ponytails than the men's peloton. But in terms of power and exciting races, we are absolutely even. So in that sense, there's not a whole lot of difference. But of course, the biggest difference is the fact that, as you mentioned, the women will have eight days while the men still have two more additional weeks. That is still a glaring difference that needs to be addressed.

CO: All right. Going back to your man, Christian Prudhomme, [chuckling] who has this to say about the differences. [KB chuckles] He says that the women's tour will need to take into account that women's cycling has a very high level, but it's more disparate than men's. And to run a women's race is more simple. You don't need hyper-steep climbs. Women's cycling is far less controlled than men's. What again do you say to Mr. Prudhomme?

KB: [laughing] I say that he needs to wake up and step out of the 1950s and join us in present day. Unfortunately, his theories are very antiquated. I don't think that he has actually watched women's racing. The racing is absolutely nowhere near as outdated as he portrays. It's extremely exciting. It's extremely powerful. And we are no longer racing in petticoats in the eighteen hundreds. And his statement seems to [CO chuckles] make us think that it's behind the times and it's not. So, he's outdated. To... to say it politely, he is uninformed and outdated on the capacity of women's racing.

CO: Kathryn, it's great to talk to you. Thanks.

KB: Thank you so much.

CO: Bye-bye.

CH: Kathryn Bertine is a former pro cyclist who campaigned for the return of the women's Tour De France. We reached her in Tucson, Arizona. You can find more on this story on our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: pop beat]

California Eels Ramp

Guest: Rita Mehta

CH: If I ask you to picture an eel, you picture a long, elegant, sort-of gross body gliding majestically through the water. You do not picture that same long, elegant, sort-of gross body slithering up a ramp out of the water to gobble a piece of squid with its two sets of jaws. And yet, now, that's all I picture — ever since Rita Mehta shared videos of snowflake moray eels doing just that. They're part of her team's research into how the creatures feed on land, which was published this month in "The Journal of Experimental Biology." It's also the inspiration for a truly phenomenal New York Times headline — "When an Eel Climbs a Ramp to Eat Squid From a Clamp, That's a Moray." Rita Mehta is an associate professor of evolutionary biology at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

CO: Rita, did you ever think that your research will inspire The New York Times to have such a headline?

RITA MEHTA: No, I… I never would have. [laughing] It's a really great, though! It's fun! When you have a great title like that, it really does show how science can be really fun.

CO: Well, it's not just a great headline. It's a really good video. Now, do you want to describe what you can see in that picture of the eel going for the squid?

RM: What you can see as the eel has already emerged from water. You know, so he... he has his intent on… on getting the piece of squid. And there is a researcher with their forceps. So all you see is the forceps. And the forceps aren't touching the squid, but they're hovering over it. And the eel makes a sudden move where, you know, it moves its body up towards the ramp even more, and it grabs onto the piece of squid. And it is able to not only just bite the squid to get it in its oral jaws, but then you can't see the pharyngeal jaws, the second set of jaws in the eel’s throat, grab the prey. But you see mechanical movement where there is ratcheting of the squid from the oral jaws back down into the throat.

CO: Yikes!

RM: And so what's amazing about this phenomenon is, you know, the whole feeding cycle, grabbing the prey and swallowing it, is taking place out of water.

CO: OK, because we think of eels as being things that catch their prey in the water like fish, right?

RM: Umm-hmmm.

CO: Now, how often do the eels actually come up on land to do this?

RM: Well, that's a really great question. You know, one of the fun things that has resulted from this study is people on Twitter have been talking about observations they've made in different parts of the world where they basically watched different species of morays come up into tide pools or come up on land, you know, from shallow waters to grab crabs or to look for crabs that they've seen running around. So, you know, we know that some species can do this. We don't know if all species of morays... there's roughly 198 recognized species of moray eels. So we don't know if all of them can do that. We don't know if, you know, it's a geographic difference. When you're thinking about an individual eel that's able to emerge from the water, we don't know how often in its life does it come up on land to… to feed on crabs?

CO: Cool! Now, so you say that you’re getting all this anecdotal evidence of moray eels doing this, but what did you have to do to, as as the headline goes, “When an Eel Climbs a Ramp to Eat Squid From a Clamp”, what did you do to get the eel [RM laughs] to climb the ramp, to eat the squid from the clamp?

RM: Right. So, you know, we were... we were inspired by natural history observations. But also, there were other researchers, you know, years prior that had shown how other fishes, like eels like catfishes, can flex their bodies to get onto land and grab a hold of prey. The researchers had a really nice platform that they built that they, you know, trained that eel catfish to come up onto so that it could grab onto prey. And so that was that was our first goal, was to build some sort of a plexiglass platform and to have it adhere into our aquarium. And then to slowly lower the water level and basically start training the eel, [CO chuckles] start getting it used to the idea that we needed it to at least come up onto the ramp or all the way up onto the platform to feed on squid.

CO: You train… you trained an eel like you train a seal. Like that was basically --

RM: [laughing] Basically, yeah. So we would... we would consistently try and feed this snowflake moray on the ramp. And you know, at first, you know, when I say it first, I'm talking, you know, the first week and a half, the eel would grab the prey item from the forceps that were hanging out of water, and then they would do a sharp turn back into the water. And then pretty soon, the eel would grab onto the prey and then we would keep holding onto the prey and slowly pull the eel up onto the platform. And what we were trying to do there is get the eel used to feeding out of the water. And then we'd let go of the pray and see what the evil would do. And, you know, the first couple of times, the eel would take the praise from us and go back into the water. But then, after a while, you know, after a few weeks, it would actually feel OK about staying on the platform, and we'd be able to start getting some videos.

CO: Well, now that you've trained these eels, is it... is this like you can take this act on the road, perhaps. [both laughing] sell tickets? No, it sounds fascinating. And so, but... but you had... you had success with one of your eels, but there's a fellow named Bengen who wasn't... who didn't make it into your paper, right? What happened to Bengen?

RM: Well, actually, Bengen is in the paper. So luckily, we were able to describe, you know, qualitatively talk about Bengen in the paper. And he was the largest eel. And yeah, because he was the largest eel, he was not happy just eating small pieces of squid. So we really had to beef up the size of prey that we offered Bengen. Because we... we increased the size of the prey so much, it confounded essentially the experimental design including Bengen. So we needed to drop Bengen from our statistical analyses.

CO: All right. Well, I have a new respect for eels because of this, Rita. [RM chuckles] So thank you for that. And thanks for speaking with us.

RM: Oh, yeah, no, it's been really fun. And I really appreciate your interest.

CH: That was University of California, Santa Cruz professor Rita Mehta speaking about how her research into how snowflake morays eat out of the water. The inspiration for The New York Times headline: "When an Eel Climbs a Ramp to Eat Squid From a Clamp, That's a Moray."

[music: jazz]

Part 2: Trinity Bellwoods Encampment, NS Crows Log Roll

Trinity Bellwoods Encampment

Guest: Rima Berns-McGown

CH: For more than a year, people experiencing homelessness have found a place to live in Toronto's Trinity Bellwoods Park. But today, city officials said the encampment — of dozens of tents — had to go. And they backed it up with a massive show of force — including police on horseback, crowd control officers, and private security guards. At one point, protesters pushed down fences that were put up by police around the park. Here is what that sounded like.

SOUNDCLIP

[sound: the clanging of metal fences, dogs barking nervously, lots of shouting]

CH: The City of Toronto says it offered residents indoor accommodation and support before they were told to leave. But many resisted — and protesters tried to prevent police from taking away the tents. Rima Berns-McGown is an Ontario MPP and the Opposition Critic for Poverty & Homelessness. We reached her at Trinity Bellwoods Park in Toronto today.

CO: Mr. Berns-McGown, what is happening at Trinity Bellwoods Park right now?

RIMA BERNS-MCGOWN: Well, there were two encampments, one in the north of the park and one in the south. They cleared the northern one. They put fences around the southern one as well. And there are some people who are trapped inside there to defend the residents of the encampment. And then there's hundreds more outside, along with heavily uniformed cops, police all around, there's all the surrounding streets are surrounded by police vehicles. They've had horses here. They've had, I understand, drones that people have seen. It's very heavily armed and security guards.

CO: How many people were actually living in the park, or how many tents at least? Do you have any idea?

RBM: So, there are a few dozen tents in the park.

CO: And how many police?

RBM: Dozens and dozens and dozens [chuckling] It feels like many. Because there are some right here in the park, and then there are some surrounding in the streets, in cars.

CO: And the police who are there, they're armed?

RBM: Yes, they are. I mean, I don't know what they have, but they have their special vest, and they all have batons and guns, and goodness knows what else.

CO: And I've seen a number of people wearing yellow vests or shirts that some have suggested might be a private security force that's there or a security force.

RBM: That's correct. There are private security forces here as well as police with yellow vests on.

CO: Now, you said they put up fences. What were the... what kind of fences, what kind of enclosures were they? And who are they for?

RBM: So they put these temporary fences up. They're this blue metal see-through things that can be connected to each other. And they put it around the encampments, trapping people inside who were there to support the residents. I was in one of those in the northern part this morning. And then when they cleared that, they've just kept people inside the southern one. So there is a few, it looks like hundred or so people who are not residents of the encampment who came to support the residents. And then on the outside, there are, oh, I don't know, upwards of somewhere between 500 and 600 people, I think, just standing around making sure that everybody is OK.

CO: The city workers who are there trying to get them to leave or telling them to leave were... some of those encounters were recorded by the CBC. The people were saying... one woman said, I can't go. It's not... it's not healthy for me. For health reasons, I can't go. Another woman said that she had been in the shelters and had... she'd been assaulted, she was afraid to go. They were afraid to go to those shelters. Have you spoken to some of the people in the camp and found out what their concerns are about going to shelters?

RBM: I have. And I've heard exactly the same sorts of stories. I've also heard many of those stories from frontline workers who... whose job it is to find people housing. And the trouble is... is exactly as you described, the shelters are extremely unsafe. People have been assaulted. They... they don't feel safe in them. They don't feel... they're terrified of getting COVID. They have underlying health reasons that mean that they're much more likely to get it, much more likely to have severe outcomes and much more likely to die. So the encampment feels much safer, and they have built a community here.

CO: How long are these people... have they been waiting to... in order to get some kind of proper housing?

RBM: Well, the proper housing, the list for proper housing is a decade long. I mean, it's... it's not... you know, so it's... we have a terrible crisis. And the issue, too, is that it's much more expensive for the province to... or for the the federal government to... to have a situation where people are unhoused. The kinds of situations that come when people are unhoused, the mental health issues that they begin to suffer, the addictions issues they begin to suffer, the fact that they become criminalized and end up in prisons. It's much more expensive for the state than it would be to build housing.

CO: But to live in the park, to live in tents, isn't the solution either, is it? And the Toronto Fire Services has responded to apparently 253 fires in encampments. As you know, the one in Trinity Bellwoods is not the only one in the city. Seven people lost their lives over the years in these fires in encampments in Toronto. What do you say to that? That there... it's… it's a dangerous place, in some respects?

RBM: Well, that's true, too. But again, so are the shelters. So many people have died in shelters and even in the shelter hotels. So those aren't great solutions either. I mean, [chuckle] the solution is really to build housing as fast as we can, as though our collective lives depended upon it. But in the meantime, we do need to keep people safe, and we need to treat them with dignity and respect.

CO: Is there any particular story, anybody you spoke with today, that sums up the dilemma you see these people in?

RBM: It's heartbreaking, actually. I mean, I don't know if you can hear my voice shaking, but I'm shaking. I... it feels that this is trauma on top of so much trauma. People have lived through so much. They've been evicted through no fault of their own. A lot of the... a disproportionate number of the people who are homeless are Black or Indigenous, and they have suffered structural violence, structural racism, intergenerational trauma that leads them to the point where they get pushed out of housing, and then they end up here, which feels safer to them often than the shelters that they've been in. I watched somebody who had been making art, and he had art in his collection from a friend who... who had died, died of an overdose. And the sense that nobody cares is just too much for folks. Like, people are just broken. And this isn't the way to fix it.

CO: Ms. Berns-McGown, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

RBM: Thank you.

CH: Rima Berns-McGown is an NDP MPP and the Ontario opposition Critic for Poverty & Homelessness. We spoke to her from Trinity Bellwoods Park in Toronto earlier today.

[music: pop beat]

NS Crows Log Roll

Guest: Darren Hudson

CH: Darren Hudson has some new pupils — and they're naturals. The Nova Scotian is a seven-time logrolling champion who runs a lumberjack theme park in Nova Scotia. And recently, he's come across some protegés who turned out to be impressively fast learners. By "protegés", I mean "crow-tegés". And by "crow-tegés", I mean crows. We reached Darren Hudson in Barrington, Nova Scotia.

CO: Darren, do you get many logrolling crows in your area?

DARREN HUDSON: No, no, this is definitely a first. My family actually had logrolling dogs in the past. That was a thing that we always enjoyed. But now, to take it to the next level, we've introduced the logrolling crows.

CO: Did you teach the crows to roll the logs, or did that seem to come naturally to them?

DH: Yeah, I didn't teach them a thing. I just had my suspicions that these guys would enjoy and be well adapt to stepping on a log and staying on top. And their instincts took over, and they stayed right on top. And oh, what a joy!

CO: The video shows that you're on the log with the crows. And so... so you're moving, you're... you're you're rolling that log pretty quickly. And so, they just stayed with you then?

DH: Right. Oh, absolutely! That was the... the key defining moment whether we… [chuckling] we could do something extraordinary was if I could actually be on the same log with these crows and roll with them in synchronicity. And it worked! And that really, for me, was a huge, triumphant moment because I love logrolling. It's been my whole life, my biggest ambition and longest dedication. And these guys are... are enjoying it, too. And let me tell you, they're cheating a little bit because they have spiked feet. [CO chuckles] Those little claws, they help them to grip right up there.

CO: Uh-huh. Now, we should point out for people who haven't seen the video that you're not doing anything cruel to these crows, they are quite happily, voluntarily.... because they can fly away anytime they want to, right? So they're really into it.

DH: Oh, they... they do. When I roll the log, and maybe they... they get their tailfeathers a little wet. Then, they flap their wings to get back on top. And then, I'll slow down the log just a bit so they can regain their balance up on top. I stop the log. They stand there. They look around, and they're like, OK, roll again, you know?

CO: [chuckling] Did they just jump on the log on their own, or did you... did you kind of suggest that they might try it out?

DH: They're very intuitive with everything. And everybody remarks on, you know, the intelligence of crows. So initially, of course, it's baby steps. I mean, I train a lot of people how to logroll. So I went out, and I was in the water holding the logs steady for them, and set them on the log, first of all, to see if they comfortable and befriend the log. And I gave it a little spin to see, you know, what the reaction time was like and if it would dislodge their balance or anything. And no, they just... little tiny steps, and they stayed on top. So you just start once you get in your body into position, you just start to roll it a little bit more. And that defines your body position and step, step, step. And away we go. We're off to the races. We just progressed from there. And then I knew the final challenge was to see if I could stay on the log with them.

CO: And you did?

DH: Yeah! What a moment!

CO: Now, these aren't just any crows that stopped by. These are crows you have named River and Vic. So how did you come to know these crows?

DH: River and Vic, and previously Johnny, dropped into my life, so to speak, during a tree job that I was working. And I actually fell the tree that they were in accidentally, and they landed gently on the ground. And much to my dismay, I disturbed their housing and their habitat. So I waited till mom and dad showed up. I actually worked that tree job for two days, and no crows showed up to claim them. So I took them home under my wing, so to speak, and have started the process of rehabilitation.

CO: Would they have survived if you didn't bring them home, do you think?

DH: My experience — and I've only had this happen to me one other time in all my years of doing this — I fell a goldfinch nest last year, and I actually took the nest, put the baby back in it and taped it to... into a similar tree. And the mother abandoned him. So that being my experience, I was reluctant to just put 'em back in another tree. So I took 'em home and made sure that they get a fighting chance. Now, it could have gone either way. There is an option that you can actually put them in a basket and tie that basket to the tree. The parents may come by and accept them and not reject them and leave them for dead. They will continue to feed 'em and raise 'em in that environment that you've provided for them. But it is a chance.

CO: Are you hoping that they can be returned to the wild?

DH: Oh, absolutely! That is 100 per cent the plan. They're wild creatures and wild and free. And that's the way they're meant to be. And it's so beautiful to see them in their natural habitat, and how they are as wild animals and how they interact with the other crows and the nature that surrounds them, that's the beauty of them, who they are and what they... what they're truly meant to be.

CO: Do you think, though, they're getting hooked on logrolling with you?

DH: [chuckling] They… crows are so inquisitive and such a joy. I think they really enjoy those activities that they normally wouldn't have the chance to do. One of those being canoeing, we go for a nice little canoe rides. They'll sit on the gunnels and peer around in the bulrushes and see everything as it goes by. So we have a lot of fun doing the Wild Axe activities. And that's definitely an addition to my life. Now, whether they hang around and continue on this journey, it's up to them 100 per cent. And I just appreciate these moments while they last.

CO: All right. Darren, it's good to talk to you. Thanks.

DH: You're very welcome, Carol. My pleasure.

CO: Bye.

DH: OK, bye.

CH: That was logrolling champion Darren Hudson in Barrington, Nova Scotia. And you can find more on this story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: jazz]

FOA: Hiccup Cure

CH: On November 20th, 2015, seven-year-old Ethan Hall strode out in front of the crowd to sing the anthem at an Australian Baseball League game in Adelaide. He stood at home plate. The music swelled. And his hilarious nightmare began.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: A young boy singing the Australian national anthem, but with several hiccups throughout]

CH: He… he made it all the way through, no thanks to his own body's betrayal. And as Ethan later told 9 News Adelaide.

SOUNDCLIP

ETHAN HALL: Hiccups are the worst!

CH: He's right. They are. So much so that I'm nervous even talking about them on the air. It's like how theatre actors aren't supposed to say the name of "the Scottish tragedy": it feels like bad luck to mention the H-word. They can happen to the best of us. Just listen to Australian newsreader Kate Wilson struggling bravely through in 2013.

SOUNDCLIP

KATE WILSON: Founder of a men's club known as [hiccup] the Brotherhood says he's just an honest former policeman turned businessman. John Moncrieffe denies anything sinister about the [hiccup] group, despite the ombudsman describing it as secretive with the potential for illegal activity. Police Chief Simon Overland says he's deeply concerned [hiccup] about the group's activities. Updating sport. The Magpies are set to make a string of changes for Saturday's NAB Cup semi-final [hiccup] with Darren Jolly Allan --

[fades out]

CH: Shudder! There was nothing she could do. It's why I don't like talking about them: at any moment, I myself could be seized by a series of involuntary contractions of the diaphragm. Muscle spasms known as "myoclonic jerks". Well, jerks is right. But a Texas doctor believes he's found a way to defeat hiccups — with a plastic device he calls "HiccAway". "HiccAway" is a "forced inspiratory suction and swallow tool" — that’s a "straw", to us regular folk. It's L-shaped, with a pressure valve in the end that goes in the glass of water. Dr. Ali Seifi claims that if you have hiccups, you just suck on the straw which, he explains, "lowers the diaphragm while opening first, and then closing, the epiglottis...Doing so stimulates at the same time the 'Phrenic' and 'Vagus' nerves, allowing the brain to 'reset' and stop the hiccups." If you're a chronic sufferer, HiccAway is a bargain at 18 dollars. Although, after we ran an interview with a hiccup researcher in 2003, Talkback shared its own cures, for free. Here are some of them, in ascending order of complexity.

SOUNDCLIP

[A phone connects with a hiccup?]

MARCEL: My name is Marcel Rideau calling from Greenwood, Nova Scotia. I find out if you dare the person to keep hiccupping and and throw in maybe five bucks or something, they're completely unable to do it. Anyway, haven’t lost five bucks yet! All right. Cheers.

[A phone connects with a hiccup, for sure]

ANNE: Hi, it's Anne calling. And since I am the queen of hiccupping, every time I have a sip of wine, I immediately am overcome by them. I'd like to let you know what works for me, and it is the only thing that works for me. It is drinking from the other side of a glass. Instead of when you're holding the glass up to your mouth, and you're about to drink, you drink from the entire opposite side. You have to bend over and the water or whatever will hit the roof of your mouth before it goes down your throat. And it is guaranteed cure. It works every time.

[A phone connects with another hiccup]

IAN: Hi, this is Ian phoning from Edmonton. You take a glass of water, and you drink 11 times from the glass of water without breathing. Not 12. Not 10. Has to be 11.

[A phone connects with a hiccup]

SALLY: Hi, this is Sally calling from Peterborough, Ontario. I found out that standing on one foot, bending the other knee up and plugging your nose and holding your breath and swallowing some water or your saliva when you feel a hiccup coming on really works really well.

[A phone connects with a hiccup?]

EMILY WILSON: Hi, I'm Emily.

OWEN WILSON: And I'm Owen Wilson, and we're from Sault Saint Marie, Ontario.

EW: We had some ideas on how to cure the hiccups. This is the squeeze! Put your thumb and your forefinger on both sides at the top of your throat. Squeeze firmly and hold for ten seconds.

OW: Drink a glass of water and then do a handstand and count to 10.

BOTH. Bye.

[A phone connects with a hiccup]

STEVE HANDAL: Hi, this is Steve Handal calling from Oakville, Ontario. As an athletic therapy student, we do a lot with anatomy. And one of our projects was researching the diaphragm. And what we found was diaphragm can cause hiccups if it goes into spasm. And, of course, part of the project, we had to find out what cure this. It has to do with the interrupting the nerve supply to the diaphragm. And your listeners might be interested in knowing the way to do that. Well, stick out your tongue, pull on it and rub your eyeballs. Try that one on for size.

CH: Rub your eye… no! From 2003, that Talkback sharing hiccup cures. If you have your own infallible antidote, call Talkback at 416-205-5687 — or email us at: aih@cbc.ca.

[music: Hip-hop beat]

Part 3: Catalan Activists Pardoned, NB Pirate Ship

BC Church Fire Folo

CH: As we told you on last night's show, officials are treating fires at two Catholic churches in British Columbia as suspicious — and continuing to investigate. The Sacred Heart Church on Penticton Indian Band lands and St. Gregory's Church on Osoyoos Indian Band lands were both destroyed in fires overnight Monday. This morning, Grand Chief Stewart Phillip — the former chief of the Penticton Indian Band -- spoke about how that community was doing and about its complex relationship with the Catholic Church.

SOUNDCLIP

STEWART PHILLIP: Well, again, it's a mixed reaction. There are, like our elders, generally speaking, support the church. And would attend services there on a regular basis. And have a lot of memories in regard to weddings and baptisms and... and funerals being held at the church. So there was a huge sense of loss in regard to those memories — a lot of tears. But there are other people that aren't sorry to see it go.

CHRIS WALKER: How do you feel about it, personally?

SP: Well, it's... it's shocking because the church has been a mainstay in our community — like most First Nations communities. And, you know, as long as I have... can remember, you go driving by the church and glance over and see it standing there. Now it's gone. It's, you know, it's strange to look over there and see a pile of burnt rubble. So I can understand the... you know, the people that are really grieving the loss of the church.

CW: Canada has... has faced a reckoning in the last few weeks. I mean, it wasn't a surprise to some, but for many Canadians, this was, you know, the discovery in Kamloops was... was a shock. And yesterday was an Indigenous People's Day like I don't remember — just the prominence of it. And now this. What... where is the opportunity for learning here? Have you thought about that?

SP: Well, personally, I believe we have an opportunity before us at this point in time in regard to the grizzly revelation of the Kamloops Indian Residential School and similar discoveries across the country and throughout the province of British Columbia. So, I think, you know, we have a moment here to look inwardly and begin to evaluate our own racial, you know, our racist attitudes and values that, you know, we've carried for generations and... and begin to know and understand that reconciliation demands that we put those racist notions down and walk away from them and never look back.

CH: That was Grand Chief Stewart Phillip, the president of the Union of BC Indian Chiefs, speaking with the CBC's Chris Walker on "Daybreak South" today.

[music: ambient]

Catalan Activists Pardoned

Guest: Laura Borràs

CH: In 2019, they were sentenced to as long as 13 years in prison. But this week, nine Catalan separatists will be able to return home to their families. Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez announced their pardons in a televised address today. But Mr. Sánchez stopped short of allowing the detainees to run for office again. Laura Borràs is the pro-independence President of the Parliament of Catalonia. We reached her in Barcelona.

CO: President Borras, are you satisfied to have seen that these people, these Catalan leaders, have been pardoned?

LAURA BORRAS: Well, I'm satisfied in… in considering that they should have never gone into prison. And so now that they are released, of course, this is a moment of recovering from this injustice. And so I'm satisfied in personal terms, and for their families and for all the people that we know them, we are their friends. And, of course, some sort of pain that has been so strong during these three and a half years. And now, it's... it's over. But in terms of the political conflict that the Spanish state has against Catalonia, this is not a solution. This is not a collective solution, at least. It's a personal solution for those who were in prison in a very unfair way.

CO: These people, nine of them, nine individuals who were involved with this referendum that was held on independence for Catalonia. Nine of them, which were... were sentenced to between nine years and 13 years for charges of sedition, misuse of public funds over the referendum, et cetera. Can you tell us a bit about them, those who have been charged? What... what did... what... what role did they play in this effort for Catalonia to become independent?

LB: Well, they were elected. And so they were MPs. And they were doing their job. And they wanted the referendum to be done accorded with our Spanish state. But the thing is that the Spanish state never would allow for the right of self-determination of Catalan people. And so that's why they did it. In the sense, the referendum was unconstitutional. But it wasn't illegal. It was not an illegal act.

CO: These people spent these years in prison. What toll did that take on their families, as you mentioned?

LB: Well, it's devastating. Prison is always devastating for... for those individuals and for the families, of course. For example, consider the fact that some of them have lost their parents and some other relatives. But it is very unfair when you are not supposed to be there. And to be freedom is the only have... the only thing that we have. And so when someone is not free, and she has to face the final moment of their parents, their mothers, fathers, and this is absolutely devastating for them and for the families.

CO: But these are not complete pardons, are they? They... they are still banned from running for office, for example, is that right?

LB: Yes, that's right. And they... they offer the possibility to... to have... to be reversible in terms that if they make some expression on their hopes of having a Catalonia freedom in the future, they could go in prison again. So that shows that this parliament are not complete if we can say that.

CO: there are polls that show that in... in Spain as a whole, they are against these pardons. They are against this Catalan separation. Why do you think that Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez decided to announce these pardons?

LB: Well, what the Council of Europe said yesterday is really important. And so the president, he knew that this report was going to be voted and they were going to lose. And the public image and reputation of the Spanish state is quite damaged in this report. And so I think that they try to accelerate as possible how those pardons were going to make public.

CO: You just mentioned the Council of Europe. This is a very important part of this story. What did they say yesterday?

LB: So in this report said that Spain should release from prison those Catalan politicians convicted for their role in the organization of the first October referendum. And also they are saying that the exiles can.. or have to return. And that repression has to come to an end.

CO: Spain imprisoned these leaders in part because they wanted to suppress that movement, the pro independence movement you've been talking about in Catalonia. How successful has that been? Do you think that this did chill... did cool those... that opposition or that... that... or that independence movement? Do you think it had that effect?

LB: Well, I think that this is what they are looking for. You have to consider that a senior Spanish politician has publicly referred to the intention of decapitating once and for all the Catalan independence movement. And so this is what they... they are intending to have these results of saying, well, this is going to be really hard. There's a lot of pain in the process. So be quiet. Stay calm. And just forget that you want independence. So the momentum, we don't know exactly when is it going to come, but we are not willing to... to let any opportunity go by in terms of finding a solution for this political conflict, not in a judicial way and not with prosecutions, but with a political action.

CO: All right. We'll be watching. President Borràs, thank you.

LB: Oh, thank you. You're welcome.

CO Bye-bye.

LB: Bye-bye.

CH: Laura Borràs is the President of the Parliament of Catalonia. We reached her in Barcelona.

[music: ambient]

Canadian Military Sexual Misconduct Report

CH: It is not lost on Gregory Lick that his report today was yet another into sexual misconduct in the Canadian military. In fact, the military ombudsman says he hopes we'll never have to see another report — because the government already knows what it needs to fix. The ombudsman took aim at Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan, accusing his office of trying to exert control over the investigations and repeatedly ignoring recommendations for change. Mr. Lick is also calling for his office to be made completely independent from the minister's office. Here's part of what Gregory Lick told reporters today.

SOUNDCLIP

GREGORY LICK: The ongoing sexual misconduct scandal within the Canadian Armed Forces and the Department of National Defence is moving from crisis to tragedy. The scandal has put on display a culture that insulates its bad actors and demands silence of its victims. This is not a new problem. The collective actions, or in some cases, the inaction of senior political, military and civilian leadership within the government, have eroded trust within the defence community. The internal mechanisms that were meant to support those who have suffered misconduct have failed to ensure fair outcomes. They are not just broken. They have collapsed entirely under their own weight. Most of these wounds in the system are self-inflicted, with documented meddling of Canadian armed forces members and civilian leadership in positions of power in individual cases — resulting in directed and often malicious cases of reprisal. Careers have been ruined. The psychological damage inflicted on individuals is unconscionable. The National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces Ombudsman's Office is literally the canary in the coal mine. We deal in matters of procedural and administrative unfairness every day. We deal with complainants who have been thoroughly broken by the system. National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces leadership must take this wake-up call seriously. Their response can no longer be another checklist exercise. They must take a hard look at the ingrained culture that has perpetuated these problems and take steps to overhaul their internal redress mechanisms and protocols with the intent to restore the confidence of members and of our nation. In the event that more talk of review surfaces in response to this press conference and my position paper, I've included in the paper and outline of all the reviews conducted on the subject since 1977. They are numerous and thorough. If taken seriously and act upon today, I strongly believe that the implementation of this way forward will help restore the trust military members and defence civilians need to have in their workplaces and on the battlefield. If discarded into the aether of political talking points and bureaucratic doublespeak, we will have failed our members in uniform. We will have failed those who have suffered the most under the current system — those who have been denied fairness, due process, dignity and respect. And failure will guarantee future victims.

CH: That was Canada's military ombudsman Gregory Lick speaking today.

[music: ambient]

Quebec Tornado

CH: Southern Quebec was under a severe thunderstorm watch yesterday afternoon. But the city of Mascouche got hit with something much worse. A tornado ripped through roads, split trees in half, tore off shingles and smashed cars. One person was killed, and police in Mascouche say they believe he tried to take shelter in his backyard shed. Harold Tidy told CBC that his home was narrowly missed by the tornado.

SOUNDCLIP

HAROLD TIDY: I've never experienced anything quite like this in my lifetime, and I am 86 years old. When I moved, when I build my home here and moved in 1950s, I planted probably five or six saplings from my property up north. They have reached — had reached — approximately 75, 80 feet in height. The wind came in with such force that it cut them off about 10 or 12 feet from the ground.

SEAN HENRY: Wow!

HT: So I have — well, I had. A couple that I know have a company, and they came in and cut what was left of them, and they're sitting on the ground, and I have them to move. It'll be done today sometime. However, it's one of the things that we can't let nature rule us. We have to sort of live with it. And that's exactly what I intend to do.

SH: Yeah, what about your home?

HT: No damage whatsoever. That's how precise that little tornado was. It came down my driveway, took out the trees, didn't touch the house, didn't take any shingles off my roof. But the neighbour next door to me lost about half of shingles.

SH Wow! I understand you said the tornado ran right through your yard. You were outside when this happened.

HT: Exactly. There was no warning completely... other than the warnings that there was a possibility of this thing happening. However, there was no overhang, no overhanging cloud, no major wind, all just out of the blue. Bang! It was there, and it was gone within 15, 20 seconds.

SH: And how are you doing this morning?

HT: A little disappointed in that my babies I planted 60 years ago are gone. But c'est la vie, we live with it.

SH: Right.

HT: I've got a whole winter's worth of firewood burning because I have a very large greenhouse that I supply all my family with plants and so on in the spring. However, such is life.

CH: That was Harold Tidy, speaking to Sean Henry on CBC's "Daybreak Montreal" today about the tornado that narrowly missed his home in Mascouche, Quebec.

[music: glassy guitar]

NB Pirate Ship

Guest: Bob Winslow

CH: Like a lot of us landlubbers, Bob Winslow has had some extra time on his hands lately. But rather than binge-watching, he's opted for bilge-watching. For the past year, Mr. Winslow has been building a 13-foot, that's nearly 4 metres, picture p'arrr-fect — I'm so sorry — pirate ship. And last week it set sail for the first time in the treacherous waters of New Brunswick's Skiff Lake. That's about an hour west of Fredericton and it's where we reached Bob Winslow today.

CO: Bob, first of all, how is the Menacing Manner actually sitting? Is she completely seaworthy?

BOB WINSLOW: Oh, completely. It's a beautiful ship.

CO: [chuckling] We haven’t... people may have not seen the photo, so maybe you can just describe her for us.

BW: The only... I think the name really describes the boat. It's a 10-gun gallion look-alike, two-masted, it looks like it may have floated around, I don't know, mid-1800s or so.

CO: Right. What was your model? You had a model for it, right?

BW: I did. I got it at a second-hand shack on the side of the road, and I paid five dollars for this little model of the Mayflower. It was 13 inches long, and I had a boat that was 13 feet long, so I could scale it an inch to a foot.

CO: You scavenged most of the stuff that you attached to this 13-foot boat to make it into a pirate ship, right? Tell us... tell us what you did? What... what materials did you use?

BW: Well, the majority of it was an old waterbed that had probably been made in the late 70s, early 80s, and waterbeds came and went. But that waterbed just always seemed to want to be called back to the water. [CO chuckles] So I chopped it up and used the plywood that... that the bladder would have sat on and then just used like the headboard for the... for the spindles and a few of the connectors that hold the waterbed together, that's sort of closing the whole thing on the boat.

CO: But the waterbed, OK, because when you said the waterbed, I was thinking that this is a pirate ship with a waterbed, but I'm not sure too many pirates in the 1800s had waterbeds. [laughing] So this is not your sleeping quarters.

BW: No, the only water bed that they would have seen would have been the Davy Jones Locker-type.

CO: [chuckling] Yes, right. OK, so you tore up this waterbed and you... and you used it for parts. And what did you do for guns? You got these... you said it's a 10-gun boat. What... where did you get guns from?

BW: Well, they're old sewer pipes sort of angled all differently. And in the centre of the sewer pipe, I put a plug in there of plywood and then put a hole saw for the centre of the barrel. And it sort of just looked like cannons, so that's what came out?

CO: You're not planning to shoot cannonballs through those... those... those pipes?

BW: No. I hope to send good squirt guns out through them.

CO: [chuckling] OK, so you did all these parts — and it actually does look like a 13-foot pirate boat. And did you put all this together, though, first of all, in your... in your yard?

BW: Oh, yes. Yeah, that was that took a year to do. I'm... I'm very disabled. I have my son who does any lifting, and I have from the rafters of my garage, I have chain draws and hoists and stuff like that that I can lift anything up, but I'm very arthritic.

CO: I'm sorry, and but... that... obviously, you weren't going to be slowed down by… by that or by being confined to a... to a pandemic,?

BW: No. The pandemic, I didn't... I wouldn't even have known that I was isolating. I never leave the place.

CO: So you put this together from bits people gave you. You scavenged. You made it. And then tell us about the day you launched the Menacing Manner into Skiff Lake?

BW: Well, I was a little hesitant because I didn't know if I was going to be too top heavy. So I put... I had some floor tiles that I put down in the very bottom of the boat, a few packages, and it kept the boat more stable in the water. And once we got under power, I realized this boat is solid as a rock in the... in the water, so I've been... I've been all around, no problems at all. Go out on windy days, it just doesn't seem to want to roll or flip over anything. It’s perfect!

[music: poppy beat]

FRED: Dudley, your friend ruined my fur!

DUDLEY: Fred, it just makes me feel like a glorious winged eagle soaring through the clouds

RIDLEY JONES: Dodo birds can't fly.

DUDLEY Not with that attitude they can’t.

SPEAKER: Is Fred a he or a she?

SPEAKER TWO: I don’t know. They’re just a Fred.

SPEAKER: Cool!

CH: That's it. The plot moves on. No big deal. And yet, it is a really big deal. Even as more of the real-world's spectrum of gender splendour has made it onto screens, shows aimed at young kids have remained a representational desert when it comes to, you know, showing people and families the way they really are. Which is to say containing people who diverge from a stereotypical "Leave It To Beaver" nuclear-family scenario. "Ridley Jones" also features a young mummy from the Ancient Egypt exhibit whose parents are two mummy daddys. And no one — including them — unravels. It's all part of the design of show creator Chris Nee, who recently tweeted, "I am here to change the world. Or retire trying. I know what it is to be 'othered'. My job is to show the world as I want it to be.”

June 22, 2021 Episode Transcript

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