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The AIH Transcript for November 17, 2020

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Numbers game. A doctor says that if we focus on gatherings that broke COVID rules in Brampton, Ontario, we're missing the real reason behind its sky-high infection rate.

CH: War-torn. Civilians fleeing the fighting in Ethiopia face a difficult journey. And those who can't get out face an even less certain future. A UN rep in the country says the hostilities must stop, so her teams can get into help.

CO: Too hot to handle. Last year, thieves made off with priceless crown jewels from a German museum. And while police may have nabbed the robbers, our guest says it's unlikely they'll ever get to the loot of the problem.

CH: Everything and the kitchen stink. A new project aims to recreate and preserve the many smells of Europe, starting in the notoriously malodorous 16th century.

CO: Layers upon egged layers. It's easy to make light of the complicated freak known as the platypus. But now science has determined nature's most absurd animal makes light itself under black light.

CH: And... playing catch-up. Six years after a controversial departure, Heinz announces it will once again produce the condiment in Canada. But consumers may not relish the chance to forgive and forget.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Tuesday edition. Radio that pores over the details.

Part one: Brampton COVID-19, Dresden heist arrests, Heinz Ketchup Montreal

Brampton COVID-19

Guest: Sav Brar

CH: There's one place in Canada that's dwarfing even the U.S. in COVID cases. According to data collected earlier this month, a neighbourhood in Northwest Brampton, Ontario logged a test positivity rate nearly double the rate In all of Peel Region — a group of cities west of Toronto. Media coverage has highlighted a number of gatherings in Brampton that have flouted physical distancing rules, including three Diwali celebrations over the weekend. But Dr. Sav Brar says a few big gatherings aren't the real reason his hometown is being hit so hard by the virus. Dr. Sav Brar is a Surgical Oncologist at Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto. That's where we reached him.

CO: Dr. Brar, on a personal level, what was it like for you to learn that this single Brampton neighbourhood is being hit so hard by COVID?

SAV BRAR: I learned today that the neighbourhood which my mother lives in has a test positivity rate of 19 per cent. Just to give you an idea, the whole province has a test positivity rate about four per cent. So, you know, honestly, it was a little scary. My mother lives at home. She's over 70. She had a bad stroke a few years ago. And it's scary.

CO: And, of course, the suggestion is that because we saw last weekend coverage and there was anger about different kinds of events, Diwali gatherings in Brampton, in one case, bylaw officers shut things down. So this is the suggestion that the cause of this high rate of COVID infection is because of parties events. What do you say to that?

SB: Well, I think posts like this, if you read the comments, you can see that it feeds into this preconception of what people in Brampton are like that's based in racism and classism. I think if you actually look at the numbers, the rates of COVID that are happening at religious events, at ceremonies is very small. The cases are happening in workplaces. Brenton is the engine room of the GTA. There's over ten thousand truck drivers. There's huge Amazon warehouses, TTC drivers, personal support workers, nurses. I work in a downtown hospital and half the nurses on the surgery ward live in Brampton. And so when people focus on these religious events, it falls into the stereotype of people who are lower educated and irresponsible, you know, driving the high rates when it's really working-class people who are putting, you know, food on our grocery shelves, who are delivering goods to our homes, who are taking care of our relatives in the hospital.

CO: And so can you just describe what you think is the reason why in these work environments, these types of professions, what is causing the infections? It's not just higher, but exponentially higher. Maybe describe what you think is actually going on there?

SB: I think what people may not realize is that places like Brampton are huge warehouse and distribution hubs. So a lot of the goods that come into the city often land in Brampton first and then are placed in other places. And I think a lot of us have been struggling with work-from-home and our work-life being changed. But people in Brampton, people who work in trucking, work in distribution, work at Amazon, work in nursing don't have that luxury.

CO: But if job insecurity is one of the reasons that is making it so difficult for people to make those kinds of choices that others can make, what can government and society, what can we do to increase that job security?

SB: I think having paid sick leave, supported and expanded is critical. I think we need people to understand that they will get the financial support from the government to stay at home if they think they might be sick or they think they might have contacted someone who was carrying COVID. And that that that support has to come from society, but also from the government. And it has to be financial. People have to feel empowered to stay home. I'm quite privileged. I mean, I make a very good income. If I were to feel unwell, I could stay at home and have someone cover me and not worry about paying my bills or, you know, having enough money for my mortgage. But many of the people who work in these warehouses, work at Amazon, work as limousine drivers at the airport don't have that luxury.

CO: What do you say to those, and you mentioned the kinds of response, social media response to Diwali gatherings, people getting together to celebrate that festival, and then saying that that's why there is this high rate. What do you say to people who are pointing the fingers at those events?

SB: I think what people have to recognize is that, you know, a few isolated incidents in a city as large as Brampton doesn't tell you the whole story. And the stories that we should be talking about are the high rates of COVID-positivity and transmission at workplaces in Brampton. We have to talk about the fact that very early on in the pandemic, you know, ten airport cab and limousine drivers died from COVID. We have to talk about the fact that the rates amongst people in these communities is much, much higher than the rates from surrounding areas. I mean, the real drivers of the pandemic in a place like Brampton isn't Diwali, isn't religious gatherings. And we have to be careful about the stories that we tell about these places because it reinforces stereotypes about the people that live there. And, you know, these are my people, my parents, my in-laws, most of my relatives live there. And they are responsible people who want this pandemic to go away just as much as we do. Your mom's okay.

SB: My mom is fine. You know, she misses her kids and her grandkids. And, you know, we're hoping that soon she'll be able to, you know, see us again in person. But, you know, she has a personal support worker that comes in twice a day, and each one of those visits is a potential for them to inadvertently bring the virus home to her. And that's what worries me and worries her brother when we see numbers like 19 per cent test positivity in her neighbourhood.

CO: I hope she stays healthy, Dr. Brar. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SB: Thank you very much, Carol.

CH: Dr. Brar is a Surgical Oncologist at Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto. That's where we reached him.

[Music: Jazz]

Dresden heist arrests

Guest: Catherine Hickley

CH: It was a spectacular heist. And today's police raids to try to catch the thieves were fittingly spectacular as well. Police in Berlin stormed more than a dozen properties and arrested three people. They're accused of taking part in a brazen robbery at a Dresden museum a year ago — and making off with a haul of priceless jewelry. Catherine Hickley is an art journalist who has been covering the story. We reached her in Berlin.

CO: Catherine, what have the authorities revealed so far about the three men they've arrested?

CATHERINE HICKLEY: Well, they have revealed very little about the three men that they have arrested, officially. There's been quite a lot in the press, which is saying that they are connected to the Remmo Clan, which is a organized crime clan based in Berlin, which was also found responsible for another theft that happened at the Bode Museum, and involved a very large gold Canadian coin.

CO: Yes. And so there is a connection then between that robbery and the men who have been arrested in Berlin today?

CH: It certainly seems so, according to the press. And what we've had officially on the record is quite limited. We know that definitely, organized clans, organized crime families, if you like, are behind the theft in Dresden, and the culture minister has said that much. The rest is basically what I've been able to read in the press, but I haven't seen it confirmed by the police in official channels at this point.

CO: Finding the people who did this brazen robbery is one thing, but of course, it's the stolen items that are key to this. Did they recover any of those museum objects in these raids?

CH: So far, they haven't said that they've recovered anything. And they have said actually that the chances of recovering anything are quite slight. We have to remember this robbery took place a year ago, just under a year ago, and that in that time, the things will almost certainly have been melted down and sold on. And the jewels will probably have been cut into different shapes so that they're not recognizable. The jewels that were stolen were crafted for August the Strong. They were baroque jewels. They were extremely special. They were the crown jewels, really, of Saxony. And Dresden is the capital of Saxony. So they're completely priceless and completely irreplaceable as well, of course. They would also be completely unsellable for anyone who stole them in the state that they were in because they would be very instantly recognizable as original baroque jewels and very easily traceable to Dresden.

CO: And you mentioned this, Augustus the Strong, who was later king of Poland, and this was the Green Vault Collection that these jewels were stolen from, absolutely brilliant objects that were in that display. Does it seem as though they were specifically looking for a collection or a series of collections when they made these robberies?

CH: It seems as though they were specifically looking for objects that had value for their materials rather than for their heritage worth. It's the same with the gold coin in the Bode Museum. What attracted the thieves to that object was not this beautiful Canadian gold coin, but the fact that it was one of the purest golds possible and could therefore be melted down and sold on. It's the same with the jewels in Dresden. They're not interested in stealing pots or paintings or something that's recognizable on the market. What they want is things that can be resold in a different form and that have value just for the materials.

CO: Can you describe the jewels that were stolen?

CH: So in total, the jewels were taken from three separate [jewerly sets] and these were all baroque [jewerly sets]. [It’s] a set of jewelry that were created especially for August the Strong in the 18th century, and they all contain diamonds. And they were all extremely valuable, and obviously, you know, completely irreplaceable. And in the end, what they actually managed to grab, it seems like a very much a kind of smash-and-grab operation. They smashed the vitrine with an ax, and then grabbed the jewels as much as they could. And they took 11 items, plus a handful of diamond skirt buttons. And the objects included a hat pin, and a dagger, and various other pieces of royal jewelry that very much ceremonial purposes, shoe buckles as well, and an ornament and a rapier. So these are definitely very much of that era and very special because of who they belonged to, of course.

CO: Now, we covered this at the time of the robbery, but if you could just remind us how these thieves managed to pull this off? Because the Dresden Museum, and especially the Green Vault Collection, this is pretty well-enforced and has a good security system. How did they penetrate that?

CH: Yes, I mean, it was an extraordinary theft. There were lots of elements in this entire operation that were really out of the ordinary and presented a new kind of threat, really, for museums across Germany. One of the things was an arson attack, first of all, on an electricity distribution point outside the museum on the street. And that basically eliminated all the street lighting so that the thieves could work under cover of complete darkness. And the operation took place just before 5:00 a.m. in the morning. They had to, first of all, smash the bars across the window in order to get in. And then smash reinforced glass. And then they smashed the vitrine in order to grab the jewels. And that all happened within minutes. So they were spotted by security guards at the museum at 4:59 a.m. And by the time the police arrived, which is at 5:04 a.m., so within five minutes, the thieves had gone. So it was extremely quick. Not only that, the getaway was also immaculately planned. It was very carefully planned. They had a getaway car, but they drove to an underground garage nearby. They set fire to it, and they obviously had another car that waiting for them, which was the one they used to escape in full anonymity. So they were impossible to trace after that.

CO: Catherine, thank you so much.

CH: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

CH: Bye.

CH: Catherine Hickley is an art journalist. She was in Berlin.

[Music: Folk guitar]

Heinz Ketchup Montreal

Guest: Sylvain Charlebois

CH: Some people felt the company bailed when the chips were down. But now, Heinz Ketchup is launching a Canadian comeback. Six years ago, the owner of the brand pulled out of production in Leamington, in southwestern Ontario, sparking a backlash from some Canadian consumers. Now Kraft Heinz has announced it will start making ketchup in Canada again — at a facility in Montreal. Sylvain Charlebois is a food researcher at Dalhousie University. We reached him in Halifax.

CO: Sylvain, do you think Canadians are ready to welcome Heinz back?

SYLVAIN CHARLEBOIS: Well, Canadians have been buying Heinz quite a lot. It is the number one brand in the country. It's been dominating the Canadian market for quite some time. But since the start of the ketchup wars six years ago, French’s and a couple of other brands have actually pulled up a little bit on the number one brand. But, honestly, I'm not entirely convinced today's announcement is going to make much of a difference, given the fact that Kraft Heinz won't be buying Canadian-grown tomatoes, at least not at this time. They're planning to do so in a couple of years, according to their communique. But there are no guarantees yet.

CO: Right. [chuckling] Now, it’s a very Canadian thing to have a ketchup war. [SC laughs] So just maybe describe, remind people what happened years back, well, not long ago when this dust-up began?

SC: Yeah, I'll try to keep it as short as possible. You see, back in 2013, 3G Capital and Warren Buffett bought Kraft Heinz, and basically went on and managed the company very differently, and implemented major cuts, including the closure of the Lemington-based plants.

CO: Lemington in Ontario.

SC: In Ontario, yes, which is considered the national capital of the tomato. And so when they closed the plant, many, many farmers were left on their own and didn't know what to do with their fields, equipment and whatnot. They regrouped, the community regrouped and relaunched the plant to supply tomato paste to French’s, which was manufactured out of the United States.

CO: French’s is best known for mustard, but that it wound up with being the ketchup of all choices, but it became quite popular in Canada.

SC: That's right. It probably has about six percent market share in Canada. It's not a huge player, but it was a player. So, of course, this product manufactured out of the U.S. with Canadian paste was listed by most grocers, including Loblaw. But Loblaw, six years ago, basically decided to delist French's ketchup. And that's when a major social media campaign started. And 48 hours later, Loblaws was forced to relist French’s, [CO chuckles] asking Canadians to buy French's ketchup. Of course, the decision of Loblaw was seen as a company preferring Heinz, which really betrayed, quote/unquote, the Lemington community. So it was basically Lemington against Loblaw and Kraft Heinz altogether. So everything went back. But there was a huge boycott against Heinz, and of course, against Loblaw a little bit.

CO: Well, and of course, neither of these companies is Canadian, right? I mean, they're both multinationals, but they managed to create this ketchup war. And French's was very clever in that it sort of got into ketchup nationalism and put a maple leaf on its packaging, and started to market itself as being the Canadian brand, didn't it?

SC: Yeah. You know, Carol, the legacy of this ketchup war, was that your section where you can find ketchup in your favourite grocer has become much more Canadianized. Most bottles do have a maple leaf now, including French’s, because they now manufacture ketchup in Canada, just north of Toronto. So two, three years later, after the start of the ketchup wars, Lemington really won. And so most companies have decided to manufacture ketchup in Canada, except for Kraft Hinz, until today when they decided to launch a line out of their Montreal plant on the island of Montreal.

CO: And what was the incentive? Why is Heinz going to go back to manufacturing in Canada and in Montreal now?

SC: I think it's the idea is it's purely about marketing. It's about adding that maple leaf on the bottle. I believe we should be starting to see a maple leaf on their bottles in the spring of 2021.

CO: Even though they're not going to, for the time being, be using Canadian tomatoes?

SC That's correct, yeah. Canadian laws allow Kraft Heinz to do that. If the last step of processing occurs in Canada, they can slap that maple leaf on their bottle, but they won't be using tomatoes. And frankly, I don't know when they'll be able to do that. You see, tomato growers have long term contracts with their clients. So it will be challenging for Kraft Heinz to find Canadian-grown tomatoes to process in Montreal. I'm not sure how they're going to do that.

CO: It actually does all come down to marketing, doesn't it? Because Kraft Hinz points out that they are still the largest customer of the plant in Lemington, using it for their tomato sauce and tomato juice. So it's somewhat unfair to say that Heinz [both chuckling] is no longer loyal to Canadians.

SC: Yeah, it is consistent though with what we've seen out of Kraft Hinz and other CPG companies in recent months. Kraft Heinz just launched a ghost kitchen in the GTA in recent weeks. It's trying to get closer to the consumer.

CO: And how much benefit is this for farmers and for workers? Are they actually getting enough out of this to make it worth all the marketing?

SC Well, the Quebec government is giving two million dollars to Kraft Heinz to create 30 jobs in Montreal. And 30 jobs in food processing is important. I mean, these jobs are very important. We've been losing many jobs for manufacturing over the years. So it is worth celebrating. But when it comes to farmers, honestly, I don't know.

CO: [chuckling] All right. We'll leave it there. Sylvain, thank you.

SC: Take care.

CH: Sylvain Charlebois is a food researcher at Dalhousie University. He was in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

[Music: Indie rock]

platypus glow

AE: You are very correct. Because a communications blackout means that for days, we have had no mobile services, no Internet services. Electricity is provided by the generator in the office. There's been no fuel. And it means that, as you said, there's absolutely no communications whatsoever for most of the day.

CO: And we know that Ethiopia's prime minister, Abiy Ahmed, he's celebrated for a person who won the Nobel Peace Prize. Are you getting any cooperation or help from his government in your efforts to... he says it's not about the civilians there. He's trying to protect them. But can you get assistance from the government in getting access to those people?

AE: The United Nations has been advocating and asking for access, but unfortunately, it doesn't only depend on the government for security and access. We also need to get access from the regional authorities. And if we are to move persons in any organized fashion, we would need to cross borderlines to go from one region to another. So it's not only one entity that would grant us access. We're asking for unhindered access from all the parties to the conflict. We need not only to give assistance to the 600 thousand or so persons who depend on daily assistance but also the civilians, the women and children, the elderly and the refugees and asylum seekers who also depend every day, every night health care, water, sanitation and everything they need for a normal life.

CO: We have learned from Amnesty International in Ethiopia that they have reason to believe that there's been a massacre of hundreds of people in the Tigray region. And reports that there are people being stabbed or hacked to death. How much more concerning is that, that you know that there seems to be these attacks on civilians as well?

AE: We have seen the reports of Amnesty International, but with communications blackouts, it's really difficult to corroborate anything. And having access… and not having access, it's even more limited. So I would not be able to comment on what the reports or the genuineness of the reports. We really are very strapped and just focused on having access to those who really depend on us.

CO: We should point out that that Amnesty International report said that witnesses said they were attacked by members of the Tigre special police force, just so people know that. Now, so there are though many of these civilians who have fled the country. They're going into Sudan. What support can you give them there?

AE: In the last few days, we've had something like four thousand people crossing borders. Now, with the attacks and the worrying that's going on and the conflict, they’re working for thousands of miles, kilometres even, to get to Sudan. But they are coming so fast and furious, the needs have almost overwhelmed the local populations, who have been so generous in giving what little they have in accommodating these poor people who really have been walking for long distances and are tired and have very little.

CO: That's four thousand a day who are crossing the border.

AE: Yes.

CO: And what are they arriving with? You said they have very little. What were they able to take with them as they fled?

AE: Basically, the clothes on their backs and very little at all. When you see the photographs and the footage, they really are literally coming with their children and themselves and nothing. And now we have something like over 30 thousand who are seeking asylum in eastern Sudan. And it's been a very, very difficult period for those people to deal with them coming so desperately and so desperately in need.

CO: And others in the surrounding countries, this is very alarming because they depend on, as they've often said, they depend on Ethiopia to be a kind of anchor in the Horn of Africa. And that the prime minister is highly regarded as, as we said, the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to him. So what larger threat does it pose, do you believe, to neighbouring countries, to the region, at this point?

AE: We're hoping that there will be peace and that the neighbouring countries will keep their borders open so that anybody who's fleeing and wanting to have asylum will have access to asylum. And that humanitarian workers will have access to give them aid and keep them alive. Really and truly, it's something that we're hoping will be soon finished and these people can start to have normal lives again.

CO: Ms. Encontre, I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you.

AE: Thank you very much.

CH: Ann Encontre is the UN High Commissioner for Refugees Country Rep in Ethiopia. We reached her in Addis Ababa.

[Music: Folk]

Dog and woman rescue

CH: Glen Green wonders what would've happened to a woman and her dog if he hadn't heard her faint cries for help. Mr. Green lives in Saskatoon. Yesterday, he and his daughter and his five dogs were at a park near the South Saskatchewan River when they sensed trouble. He told CBC's "Saskatoon Morning" host Leisha Grebinski the rest of the story, earlier today.

GLEN GREEN: She hollers again, just help. And I said, "well, where are you?" And no answer. So I just ran towards the river. We were... as I approached the river edge, I said, "please, holler." And she hollered, and I looked to my right, and I saw a head in the water. And then I saw kind of two heads in the water, but quite a ways away downstream from me, just before a bend in the river. And I said, "I'm coming, I'm coming." And I ran towards her as I was watching, she disappeared around the bend. And I was, oh, my goodness, I'm really going to have to go now. So I ran a little harder, and I got up to a prominent point on the river, and I thought, well, I'll stick my head over and see if I can find her. And lo and behold, there she was right below me with a chocolate labrador in her grasp. There was a little three-foot ledge of ice that had built up on the, you know, next to the bank and six feet straight down. Literally, there is no slope whatsoever straight down. And I can't even tell you now how I got down there, whether I jumped or whether I tried to scramble down. I don't know how I would have done that without jumping? But I just had to hope that the river ice wouldn't break. It cracked when I was pulling her out.

LEISHA GREBINSKI: Just how serious was the situation, do you think?

GG: Well, there wouldn't have been another person between me and, goodness, well into Saskatoon.

LG: How did you get her and the dog out?

GG: Well, that was kind of tricky. I called to my daughter. I probably used a few bad words because it was a really dangerous situation. That ice could have given away at any time. And the first objective was to get the dog out. And Leah, who is the name of the person who I helped rescue, was just amazing. She was like pretty darn calm, super brave, super strong. She had to help get the dog up. Every time we tried to get the dog out, one of its legs would go under the ice and stick there. She pretty much lifted a lot of the dog out herself. And then when I pulled her out, she was very helpful as well. And we just kind of split her along the ice. I guess if you've seen a seal come out of the water, that's kind of what it was like.

LG: The woman did go to hospital for treatment, and her partner considers you a hero. What do you think about that?

GG: I just did what anyone else would have done. Just so fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. Really, really fortunate.

CH: That was Glen Green, speaking to "Saskatoon Morning" host Leisha Grebinski earlier today. He says the woman and the dog he rescued are now recovering.

[Music: Glassy guitar]

Old European smells

Guest: William Tullett

CH: Ah, the romance of Europe, hundreds of years ago. What rich and sophisticated odours it conjures! The scent of leather-bound books, fine cognacs, wild meadows bursting with fragrant flowers and wild herbs! How one's nose yearns to travel back in time. Well, actually, if one's nose got there, it would be really bummed out. Because back in the day, a lot of Europe just reeked. And now, a team of experts has announced a project to expand our understanding of exactly what it smelled like in Europe from the 16th to the early 20th century. The project launches in January. It's called Odeuropa, and it's been awarded a two-point-eight million Euro grant from the EU Horizon 2020 programme. William Tullett is part of the team. He's a lecturer at Anglia Ruskin University in Cambridge. We reached him in Baldock, England.

CO: William, if you could time travel to a city in 17th century Europe. What would it smell like? Can you give us a smellscape?

WILLIAM TULLETT: Well, I think there'd be a whole series of aromas. We'd be talking about the aromas of the slightly unsanitary scents, the kind of waste from butchers and various fecal matter and all that kind of stuff and urine. But we'd also be thinking about the smells of spices and fruits and vegetables in markets. We'd be thinking about the herbs and perfumes that people carried with them on their bodies as they made their way around the city, particularly to protect against diseases like plague. So we'd be really thinking about a whole range of smells and things like tobacco in alehouses and taverns, which is being smoked profusely in the 17th century. You know, it depends where you go in the city as to what it smells like, but it would have been a rich bouquet.

CO: And, of course, there would have been the coffee houses that people went to. They were rather new. Was that a smell that people appreciated as they do now, or do you think these were new smells to them?

WT: Well, I think, you know, so tobacco is quite a new scent in the 16th century. And by the time coffee houses come about in the late 17th century in European cities, tobacco is really something that's sort of being smoked all over the place every day, but it becomes particularly associated with coffee houses. And that's partly because coffee houses are seen as these kind of great spheres for male debate about politics and economics and religion. And everybody sits around with their pipes and smokes them away while they chat. To the extent that women are supposedly not supposed to come into coffee houses, partly because supposedly women detest the smell of tobacco smoke. [CO chuckles] So it's very much defined in the coffee house as a male space as well.

CO: How will you go about this project? How will you collect these smells?

WT: Well, one of the beauties of being a historian today is that we have these massive databases of digitized historical texts that have kind of sprung up over the last ten, 20 years and also digitized images, whether that's landscape paintings or portraits or images of objects. And so we'll be using those databases, really. So we've got around 400 thousand images and, you know, thousands and thousands of texts in seven different European languages. And we'll be using machine learning and computer science techniques to basically read all of those texts to find smells. And to find which smells seem to crop up again and again, which are most meaningful, what they meant to people, how they made them feel, and also what spaces those smells seem to be cropping up in. So there's a rich archive out there for us to use, and we're really looking forward to kind of, you know, finding as many smells as we can within it.

CO: And how specific will you be able to get? I mean, will you be able to identify what perhaps the perfume of Marie Antoinette smelled like?

WT: I mean, absolutely. I mean, one of the other sorts of sources will be using are things like recipe books. And there are loads of recipe books for perfume, both by professional perfumers, who are really quite a new thing in the late 17th and 18th centuries, but also recipes from perfumes that people made at home. So we'll be using all of those kinds of sources as well to give us an insight into the kind of scents that people were using at the time and the way in which the fashion for perfumery was changing over time as well.

CO: But this is extensive, isn't it? I mean, it is not just a gathering of a few smallscapes here. You are actually going to try and catalog archive a vast range of odours of over centuries. [chuckling] So describe what the archive that you're imagining would be?

WT: We're going to create a number of things on the project. One of them is an encyclopedia of historical smells, which is going to be available online by the end of the project. And it's going to be full of basically historical biographies of smells, but also historical biographies of noses that were doing the sniffing in the past as well. And then that's going to be joined by a series of recreations of smells and smell kits that are going to be used in museums across Europe as well and heritage sites. So the idea is not just to kind of create this amazing archive of how people felt about smells, but to see what people today feel about the smells from the past as well.

CO: And you'll carry this into the 20th century. So will you archive the smell of cities at a time when, well, suddenly there were fossil fuel-driven cars and just the combustion engines, [chuckling] creating a tremendous amount of pollution, people smoking everywhere? I mean, is this something you can capture?

WT: Absolutely. I mean, one of the things that we're really interested in, in the project is the smell of industrialization. I've been talking to people, you know, today about the different smells that people find significant. You know, when you talk to people, what smells do they remember from 50 or 60 years ago? And many of those smells or smells associated with factories and with industry, you know, the smells of biscuit factories, for example, or factories that are making coffee. And so I think capturing the smells of industry, and that includes going all the way back to the industrial revolution in the 18th and 19th century, will be really key to that. And that won't just be the smells of what the factories are producing, but the smells of pollution as well. So we'll be looking at historical images, looking for evidence of smoke and pollution in landscapes of towns, for example.

CO: Will you be able to reproduce any of these smells?

WT: Well, the aim is definitely to try and reproduce different historical smells and individual smells, which we can obviously recreate using chemistry and kind of the techniques used in perfumery using synthetic scents. But we're also interested in recreating smellscapes as well. What a coffee house, for example. One of the examples we talked about earlier, what that actually smelled like, what was the blend of scents that we could find there? Or in the kind of the average street in 17th or 18th century Paris or London or Amsterdam? What did the Canal of Amsterdam smell like, for example?

CO: I was remembering that there was a while where there were movies that came out, films that you could go and watch in cinemas, that gave you a card, a scratch-and-sniff card, [chuckling] and you could actually follow along by smelling them. It didn't last very long, but I was thinking, is that something possibly you could do? You could give people in a tour of these smells, maybe a scratch-and-sniff card or something like that in order to identify them?

WT: Yeah, absolutely. I'd say one of the things we're going to be doing with the museums is developing these historical scent kits that we can use with museums across Europe. And we're also going to be doing things where, for example, we recreate the blends of smells that might be associated with particular paintings in museums. So there'll be a lot of trying to get the public to actually engage with smells and with our recreations of smells throughout the project. But we're really keen when we do that to try and emphasize that the past didn't kind of smell just disgusting and titillating, but also could smell quite nice at the same time, trying to get people to understand that the past might have been foul, but it could also be fragrant as well.

CO: What a fascinating project. William, thank you.

WT: Thank you.

CH: William Tullet is a lecturer at Anglia Ruskin University, and part of the project called Odeuropa, that's researching old European smells. We reached him in Baldock, England. And just for orientation, the scent or sturdy scent of a 16th-century chamberpot would have to drift 80.01 kilometres northeast to reach Baldock from Reading, England. For more on this story, visit our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

SOD: Bad reception council

MEMBER: My thoughts exactly, and I heard that cow in the background. It seemed like it was an agreement as well. So, Mr. Brown, would you like to --

MEMBER BROWN: Before I do, I just want to confirm, Mr. Elenbaas, do you actually have cows in your living room? Is that it?

BE: Um, I'm currently in the barn.

MEMBER BROWN: Oh, I see. OK.

BE: Better connection out here. [cow moos louder] [lots of laughter as mooing continues]

MEMBER: That's actually pretty good at council meetings.

BE: That's what happens when the people in the 5th District elect a farmer. [more laughter]

MEMBER: We love it.

MEMBER BROWN: We love it. It’s good. At that invitation, I guess --

CH: The sound of a council meeting last week in Whatcom County, Washington — when councilman Ben Elenbaas had to go to his barn to get wifi reception.

Part three: Quebec green energy, UK EU 4-day week

FOA: McGill Redbirds

CH: Men's athletics teams at McGill University have a new name. And they hope it's the start of a long period of cardinal rule. From now on, the teams will be called the "Redbirds". The old name was the McGill Redmen. Which was ditched last year, after students and faculty convinced the school that it had a discriminatory impact. The student who led the convincing was Tomas Jirousek. Mr. Jirousek is a member of the Kainai First Nation in southern Alberta. He was the valedictorian for McGill's Faculty of Arts this year. In June, Carol asked Mr. Jirousek whether he'd come to McGill to shake things up.

TJ: [Chuckles] No, I did not go to McGill as an activist. I had no plans to become an activist when I first went to McGill. I had seen such brilliant Indigenous activists at McGill when I first got there burning out when trying to challenge the Redmen name. It seems like an almost impossible task. And what I set out to campaign on the Redmen issue, I didn't actually have the expectation of changing the Redmen name.

CO: Then you had a petition with 10,000 names on it. You had the majority of people on campus and supporting you. The story of your success was written up by every major paper, including those in the United States, because of the accomplishment. But at the same time, there was a small pocket of fierce resistance to you. Where did that come from?

TJ: That actually was one of the things that sticks with me the most when I reflect on the campaign to change the Redmen name was there was so this visceral racism that you felt, this isn't just at McGill or in Montreal, Quebec. I think it's a demon that we still have to push and fight against across the country in that I was getting messages or people emailing me, commenting on my personal social media, saying that, you know, I was just a dumb Indian who only got into McGill because I was native. And that was obviously quite, quite hurtful. But the larger message that I take from the name change campaign isn't even just about the mean or the racist comments that I've directed my way. It was the groundswell of support that we received from non-Indigenous peoples and non-Indigenous students. We've been trying for decades to change the Redmen name. And it wasn't shifting. There wasn't this new traction that we had in our most recent campaign.

CO: And yet the argument that the alumni often gave why the name was legitimate, it didn't apparently originate as a reference to Indigenous people -- it was the uniforms and the Celtic tradition of james and the guild. But it was all of those other trappings that took on over the years, right? And really derogatory names for the teams and the logos and everything, right?

TJ: Exactly. And that's it. It doesn't matter what the intention of the name was. The reality was that it ostracized Indigenous students, it isolated Indigenous students and made Indigenous students not feel safe to go into buildings or compete for McGill athletics. And that really broke my heart. And I think every Indigenous student, every student should feel comfortable going into McGill athletics. They should feel safe going into McGill athletics. We know how important it is for students to have that physical outlet. This is just tragic that Indigenous students felt that denied to them because of the Redmen name.

CH: That was Tomas Jirousek speaking with Carol in June, after he graduated as McGill University's 2020 valedictorian. Today the university officially renamed its men's sports teams "the Redbirds.”

[Music: Ambient]

Quebec green energy

Guest: Ruba Ghazal

CH: If the plan succeeds, Quebec won't have a single gas vehicle on the road by 2035. It's part of a six-point-seven-billion-dollar plan announced this week to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the province. A big part of that money will go towards incentivizing Quebeckers to buy electric vehicles and having car dealerships meet sales quotas. Right now, less than two percent of the cars and trucks on Quebec's roads are electric or hybrid. Ruba Ghazal has taken a close look at the plan. She's a Quebec Solidaire MNA and the environmental critic for the party. We reached her in Montreal.

CO: Ms. Ghazal, Quebec’s government says it has a plan to get one-point-five million electric cars on the road within ten years. That would be impressive in most provinces of Canada. Why doesn't that plan impress you?

RUBA GHAZAL: Well, we agreed to have more electric cars. We are not against this objective. It's important. But, in fact, in this green plan of the government of Quebec of Quebec, what's missing is how to have less cars, electrical or not, on the roads? Because the number of cars is growing more than the number of the population in age to drive. And this is a very big problem. And the other part of the problem is that more and more people are buying SUV, which is very not good for emissions.

CO: Just on the business of getting more electric cars on the road in 2018, your own party, Quebec Solidaire, you pitched the same idea. So shouldn't you be applauding the government?

RG: Yeah, OK. Exactly. Quebec Solidare had almost the same measures. And the government and everybody in 2018 treated us as radical, including Coalition Avenir Québec. And now, they are announcing almost the same measures. So Quebec Solidare, what we said during the campaign in 2018 is no more vehicle using gas in 2030, not to 2035. And we can be leaders in Quebec by doing things earlier than others in Canada because we have the hydroelectricity. So we were happy that the government was inspired by Quebec Solidare [chuckling]. But we only say it will be also a good thing to put it earlier, because even the car industry yesterday answered the government, saying that for sure in 2030 we will be more than ready. We will be even ready earlier to sell only electrical cars. So this interdiction will be a little bit useless [laughing]

CO: Right, because it's going to happen anyways. It's going to be done by market forces. But the premier has agreed to continue this rebate program that offers Quebecers eight thousand dollars towards buying an electric car. And we know this is part of the reason why the car manufacturers are actually moving ahead. They know there are these incentives. So these were necessary developments, were they not?

RG: Yes. This is a good thing to give incentives to people to buy more electrical cars. But what's not good is, for example, me, I live I in Montreal, near a metro subway. If I buy an electrical car, I will have this incentive. Eight thousand dollars. But in reality, I don't need the car. And it's not a good thing to give money to somebody like me who is living in a place where there is public transportation. And a way to let it cost less for the government is to take the money by taxing the SUV, because it can be a punitive measure for these people who make this choice. But it's a good thing for the society. What's important also is to have more and more public transportation, to be more efficient, more comfortable, because in reality, people what they need is not a car. What they need is to be able to move from a point to another very fast and in an efficient way.

CO: And you just mentioned the SUVs, and Quebec had another record year in sales of the sports utility vehicles, and all gas-powered. But at the same time, this idea that there should be replaced with public transportation, that's fine for the cities, is it not? I mean, it's a big province, Quebec, much of it, a lot of rural people, they don't have access to public transportation. So is this not a benefit to people outside of big cities more?

RG: I agree with you. For people who are living in places where there's not a big density of population, this is normal to give them incentive to have electrical cars. But, for example, when there is a train available near in the suburb, people, they take it and they take it in a big number of people, so they are jammed. When it's accessible and also in a good price, not very expensive, they will take it. There's a demand for it. But if we give people only money to buy electrical cars, yes, there will be less emissions of greenhouse gases, but they will be jammed on the traffic. And this is not good at the end.

CO: As you know, electricity, hydropower is the cornerstone of Quebec Inc, isn't it? It's really deep in the history of your Quebec business. Quebec has that advantage over other provinces. Do you think Quebec really made enough out of its huge resources in hydroelectricity?

RG: Yeah, well, Qubecers are very proud of the hydroelectricity. They are proud to have this natural resources and to put this energy, which is at all Quebecers owns it. So important to take advantage from it, to also fight the climate change. There's efforts that are done, but not enough. For example, it's not written in the plan of the government to forbid use of natural gas for new residential construction, for example. This should be forbidden. It should be only to heat the houses and the condominium or the apartment. Only electricity should be used. But, unfortunately, the government thinks that natural gas, even if we have hydroelectricity is an energy of transition, which is not at all. This is all the scientists in the world, they say and they know that natural gas should not be used anymore. We should do more with hydroelectricity, but also with renewable energy, and to develop it more and more. And it creates economy and job also.

CO: Ms. Ghazal, we will leave it there. Thank you so much.

RG: Thank you. Thank you.

CH: Ruba Ghazal is Quebec Solidaire's environmental spokesperson and a member of Quebec's National Assembly. We reached her in Montreal.

[Music: Instrumental]

Jane Goodall on Canadian captivity

JOHN HORGAN: Dr. Henry is absolutely correct. The biggest challenge is we're not seeing outbreaks at the Save-On, we're seeing outbreaks at private gatherings. So a mandatory mask requirement would not have had an impact, for example, on people gathering in large numbers for a Thanksgiving meal back in October. It wouldn't have had an impact on people having a whole crew over to watch a football game on Sunday afternoon. So the challenge is personal behaviour. And I'm very confident British Columbians get that. And my advice to everyone is in the listening area, Gregor, is if you can't stay distant from people wearing masks, without any doubt. We don't want to use a stick. We believe that common sense has worked very well for BC, and and I'm going to stick with that until Dr Henry advises otherwise.

GREGOR CRAIGIE: But at some point, if the numbers keep going up, would you be willing to reconsider that and move to the stick? I mean, after all, we have laws for, you know, you have speed limits or a law requiring cyclists to wear a helmet and so on, for reason rather than just encouraging it. You mandate it as a government.

JH: Absolutely. And I'm not suggesting that we will not go there. I'm waiting for the science to tell us to do that. Dr Henry would prefer, and I agree, that we focus on the trouble spots right now, which are gymnasiums that have too many people, too much physical activity. Spread in those facilities is the challenge. We've seen very good outcomes from restaurants, for example, and I'm very, very pleased with the way the restaurant sector has stepped up, at significant cost I would add, to try and keep their businesses going and to give that option to British Columbians. But as we get into the depth of fall, and the second wave is clearly upon us, British Columbians, all of us, have to focus on keeping each other safe and being mindful of our neighbours and the people beside us. And that's the best advice possible. We’ll certainly use restrictions on public gatherings. Fines have been issued starting right here in Victoria with some fanfare. A guy who decided to have two parties on the same weekend, well beyond what were the appropriate guidelines. Fines were issued. Fines will be issued if appropriate. But the mandatory mask mandate has become an issue that everyone has an opinion on. And I'm going to take the opinion of Dr Henry, Dr Stanwick and others when it comes to that.

CH: That was BC Premier John Horgan speaking with the CBC's Gregor Craigie, host of "On the Island."

[Music: Hip-hop]

UK EU 4-day week

Guest: Clive Lewis

CH: It's a well-researched working premise. A group of politicians and union officials from across Europe says our world would be, quote, "immeasurably better, fairer and happier" if we had a four-day work week. That's not a new idea. Heck, John Maynard Keynes (MAY-nard CANES) predicted a 15-hour work week back in the 'thirties. But those who signed an open letter addressed to European world leaders this week say making the shift now could help economies bounce back from pandemic depressions. Clive Lewis is a Labour MP from Norwich South in the UK and a signatory to the letter. We reached him in Norwich.

CO: Mr. Lewis, how would adopting a four day workweek help economies like Britain recover from the pandemic?

CLIVE LEWIS: At the moment, we're facing an unemployment crisis here in the UK, like in many other countries around the world after the COVID pandemic. And shortening the working week to a four-day week would, in effect, begin to distribute working hours out to a broader range of people, bringing unemployment down, increasing productivity and reshaping the employment market into a more sustainable format. Given the fact that we know that whether COVID has happened or not, whether we were having mass-unemployment or not, we know that with the rise of technology and automation, you know, well-paid jobs are going to become increasingly difficult to come by under the current economic model. So this is about expressing a view. As many of us know, a consensus is building that we need to fundamentally change how the employment market works and to move to a shorter working week because there are so many other benefits.

CO: But your letter calls for a move toward the shorter working hours, but no loss of pay. So what's in it for the employer?

CL: Well, I think one of the first things in this country, we have one of the worst levels of productivity in the in the G12 G20, G7, one of the lowest levels. So I think one of the key things for employers is actually reducing your working week, or reducing the working time that your employees work can actually boost productivity. A lot of research has shown that that can happen. But we're not expecting employers to do this just off their own back. One of the things that we've recommended is that the public sector in this country should be one of the first areas the government looks at to begin to pioneer techniques to be able to bring working hours down. It's not something you can just decree by legislation, although legislation plays a part. It’s something that we're going to have to work our way through. We've done it before in the past, throughout history. There have been long campaigns by trade unions and campaigners to, for example, reduce the working week from a kind of 60 or 70-hour week down to a 40-hour week, to not work weekends. So there is a long history of this being achievable. But what we're saying is if employers do this, not only will they see productivity increases, but also as well, there has to be support from government to make the transition, to actually begin to pay people to work less hours and see no reduction in their pay, to spread the hours out among workers. Basically, spreading the same amount of jobs, but amongst more people. One of the key things about this whole campaign is it isn't either/or, people aren’t working less but being paid less. This is about high-quality pay and high-quality jobs, but fewer hours. And I think that's one of the key demands that we've been making.

CO: Right. So it's going to work for those who are in high quality jobs. I guess the issue is, is that a lot of people in many countries are not being paid a living wage.

CL: That’s right.

CO: And so reducing their workweek to four days in one job means they have three more days that they can do two other jobs. As you know, people take on more work and work seven days a week because they have to. So it doesn't matter how short the workweek is. For them, it doesn't shorten at all because they don't get paid a minimum wage. So how do you ensure a living wage in this new scheme?

CL: Well, there's obviously a component that can be through legislation. And I think it's really important, so obviously here, we have legislation on a minimum wage. The government calls it a living wage. It isn't quite that. But there have been campaigns for a living wage. And they have been taken up by a large number of employers, who understand that if you pay people properly, pay people decently, it's good for productivity, good for jb retention, good for the business, good for morale and so on and so forth. But I think it's really key to kind of emphasize here that this isn't just about a one size fits all. The reason we want to set up a commission to look into this is because we understand there will be problems. Different sectors will need to approach this in different ways. And obviously, what works in the UK in one specific sector might not necessarily work in another country, in a similar sector. And I think it's also really important here that we've put trade unions at the heart of this so that on a sector level, we can begin to work out how workers can begin to have improved social time, work less, but also maintain their pay. I think it's really important to know that what's happened under COVID is that it's given us an opportunity, a chance for a reset. And a lot of these ideas have been around for quite a while. But now, because of COVID, because people have had a time to kind of see that there are alternatives. It was Margaret Thatcher who coined the phrase, there is no alternative. What she was saying was the free market model that we've had for the last 40 years is the only one that would ever work. And what COVID has done, it has shown people that there is an alternative. That we can see an improvement in the environment. We can have more time with our families. We can spend more time with our friends. We can have a better work/life balance. Everything doesn't have to completely go to pot. And we've seen government levels of government intervention that we were told were completely impossible. So I think what this is about is about taking some practical steps, about working out what's going wrong in our economy? We have endemic low pay. We have now increasing unemployment. You know, when you add that to growing technological gains, automation, A.I., how can we begin to get on the front foot on these issues and do something that enhances people's lives, and their pay, and their terms and conditions? It's not a panacea. It's not a silver bullet, but it's about new thinking, creative ways of working the economy, of making the economy work so it works for everyone. And I think the final thing I would say is that it's the environment, stupid. One of the things that we know with a four day week is that this, we believe, will help reduce the environmental impact on the planet, actually having more time for friends, for family, for the hospitality sector, for doing things that we enjoy, this is the kind of economy that we want to create, that we want to promote. And I think if we go down that route, go down that path, we know that a shorter working week can have a significant impact on the kind of economy you have and the impact we have on the environment. And we think as we approach that climate crisis, as we approach the ecological cliff edge, these things that we have to kind of get on board with very quickly if we're not going to go off that cliff edge.

CO: Mr. Lewis speaking with you. Thank you.

CL: Thank you.

CO: Bye.

CH: Clive Lewis is a Labour MP in the UK, and one of the signatories to a new letter calling for the adoption of a 4-day work week. We reached him in Norwich.

[Music: Vocalization]

Dolly Parton COVID Vaccine

CH: By now you've probably heard the good news. Last night, we told you about Moderna's coronavirus vaccine, which the drugmaker says has been 94-point-five percent effective in early trials. It's amazing that researchers have been able to turn around the vaccine so fast. And if you look at the preliminary report, you won't be surprised to see that an army of institutions and organizations supported the research to make it happen. But one name on that lengthy list might surprise you. Nestled between the Vanderbilt University Medical Center and the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovation is "The Dolly Parton COVID-19 Research Fund." Yes, that Dolly Parton. There's only one. In 2014, the country music star was in a car accident and needed treatment at the Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Fast forward to April 2020, and one of the doctors she met during her treatment started telling her about the exciting work they were doing to combat the coronavirus. So, Ms. Parton quietly donated a million dollars to the cause. As she told NBC, quote: "I felt like this was the time for me to open my heart and my hand, and try to help." Unquote.

November 17, 2020 Episode Transcript

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