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The AIH Transcript for November 19, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Daemon Fairless

CAROL OFF: Hello, I’m Carol Off.

DAEMON FAIRLESS: Good evening, I'm Daemon Fairless. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

DF: Tonight:

CO: They lost him — they were not going to lose her. After their father died in prison in Iran, his sons vowed to rescue their mother from a similar fate — and getting Maryam Mombeini then into Canada was no easy feat.

DF: Tangling the Web. Iran shuts down the internet, so news about anti-government protests can't get out — but with so much on the line, our guest is helping Iranian activists get their stories out.

CO: An open and shut down case. Alberta's United Conservative government fires the election commissioner who was investigating a possible violation of election finance law by... Alberta's United Conservative Party.

DF: Getting their methage across. South Dakota's methamphetamine awareness campaign has been widely mocked — but a campaign organizer there was method to saying "Meth — We're On It."

CO: You won't find it on a relief map. A dying town in Finland makes a name for itself by embracing despair — and its campaign urging people not to visit is a detour de force.

DF: And... she didn't just look like a giant next to it. She was a giant. And now, after an auction in Paris, an extremely tiny book written by the extremely great Charlotte Bronte is heading back to England.

DF: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that worries it's so small it could vanish into "Jane Eyre".

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Iranian mother reunion, Alberta election commissioner, little Bronte book

Iranian mother reunion

Guest: Ramin Seyed Emami

DF: Maryam Mombeini is now in Canada — and it's a small miracle she made it. Ms. Mombeini is the widow of Canadian-Iranian professor Kavous Seyed Emami. In 2018, he was arrested over unsubstantiated claims of spying — and died mysteriously in Evin Prison. Soon after his death, Ms. Mombeini tried to leave Tehran for Canada, to reunite with her sons. Iranian authorities wouldn't let her. They even imposed a travel ban. But last month, quietly, her children helped her get out of the country. It was a daring plan that could've failed at any moment. But she made it to Vancouver. Ramin Seyed Emami is one of her two sons. He lives in Vancouver, but we reached him in New York City.

CO: Ramin, how does it feel to have your mother out of Iran safely in Canada?

RAMIN SEYED EMAMI: It's a wonderful feeling, Carol. We were dreaming about this moment for 582 days. And the longer it took, the more desperate we became, and the more worried we became about our mother's condition. It was very difficult after my father's death — and all of the threats and pressures that we were feeling as a family trying to keep my mother safe and secure during this time. My brother and I pleaded with the media, diplomats, and world leaders to help us out in any way they could. But a lot of times, it felt that our efforts seemed pointless.

CO: We're talking about 582 days here — nearly 20 months. You were set to leave with your mother and your brother — and held up at the airport in Tehran. And she said go on without me. You did, and so you haven't seen her since until she arrived in Canada, is that right?

RSE: Yes, that's correct. And at the airport, it was such a frantic scene. Because when they were detaining my mother, they said your sons can get on the plane, but you're not allowed to leave. And they took away her passport. And her last act of selfless and unconditional love, she just literally pushed us onto that plane and told us just go and be safe and try to help her from abroad. And I had to live with that guilt for 582 days knowing that I left my mother in such a dangerous circumstance. And it killed me knowing that I had left her there. I communicated with her almost on a daily basis through video chat and phone calls. I would sometimes just leave the phone on in my house while I was cooking or reading or playing basketball or whatever just so she wouldn't feel alone. Because the truth is a lot of our friends and family were even afraid to visit or call her. So she didn't have as much company as I would have hoped.

CO: Do you have any idea why the Iranian authorities detained her?

RSE: I think as an act of intimidation to keep my brother and I silent during this whole ordeal with my father dying under suspicious circumstances at Evin Prison. They wanted to make sure that somehow they control the narrative as so far as going out even making a documentary a smear campaign against my family and airing it on national television. Where my mom, as soon as she saw the host and the narrator of this documentary, she realized that this person who’s a journalist of the state television was actually one of her interrogators.

CO: How she was able to get out is just remarkable. Almost a miracle isn't it? And so at what point did you and your brother figure out this plan for how you would get your mother out of Iran?

RSE: For us, this whole plan it happened very last minute. We didn't even tell our own lawyer in Iran. We didn’t even trust him at this point anymore. She went to the courts to see what was happening with her travel ban. And they would always just handed another note that it's been extended. Someone else told you to go to the passport offices where she went to them. And someone in that building told her well, it doesn’t even matter if you have a ban or not. Your passport has expired. I told my mom to go to another pastor offices and just try to reapply for a new passport. And to be honest, we didn't think that it would even come through. We thought definitely it’s gonna raise some flags and they won't even send it. But two weeks later, the passport came. As soon as she got the purple passport, we told her to just go to the airport. And she just came with a carry on. And she had her phone on in her pocket so we could hear what was happening. My brother I was so nervous because the same thing two years prior when she was at the airport, we thought everything was gonna be fine. And it turned out to be a disaster. So until the very last second at the airport, we didn’t even know if she was gonna be able to get through. We just purchased her a ticket actually last second to just go to Istanbul. Just to see if she could even leave the country.

CO: And all the time that she was at the airport and going through this, her phone was on. You were listening to your mother in real-time, holding your breath.

RSE: Oh, it was terrifying because we're just waiting for any moment for a security officer to come and take her away. And when actually she sat in the aeroplane, we told her to turn on the video chat to make sure she's actually in the plane. And as she was lifting off, she still had her phone. Like, her video chat just disconnected as she went into the clouds. We were just crying tears of joy that she had finally left. We couldn't believe that it's happening.

CO: But I mean what was that moment like for you and your brother when you knew that her flight had taken off, that she was leaving?

RSE: Oh, I was screaming from the top of my lungs. I think my neighbours probably thought I was crazy. I was screaming so loud. It was just such a relief.

CO: You said that you did not tell anyone. No one could know. But there was one organization you had to inform, which was the Canadian government. What role did it play?

RSE: That is correct. We contacted Foreign Minister Freeland. She was probably the most helpful person out of everyone in this whole ordeal in the past two years. She would call my mom on a regular basis to make sure she's doing fine. She really connected with my mother's plea and the ordeal that she was going through.

CO: This 20 months that you have spent waiting to get your mother out, it's suspended in a way the tragedy of your father's death under very mysterious circumstances in Evin Prison. What can you now do to try and find out what happened to your dad?

RSE: Well, we're still trying to put the pieces of this puzzle together. In the same way that they took away my mom with no explanation; the shame of it killed my father and took him away with no explanation. We were never ever met on the high-level official explained what's what had happened. There was always just different talk of rumors and allegations that were completely unsubstantiated — never any evidence shown of any wrongdoing. And so this whole time, the government was just trying to cover up this mess that they have gotten themselves into. And if they had just come from the first day and publicly apologized and said that we made a mistake. Not only would the people forgive them, but everybody would have just gone on and forgotten about this whole thing. But they insist on doubling down because they can never show a sign of weakness.

CO: I'm looking at a picture in the Globe & Mail of you, your brother, your mother is there, your pets are there. Your mom is holding a picture with your whole family together with your dad. What happens now with your family? How do you how do you move on?

RSE: I've always said that the best revenge is to live a happy life. And for us to move on together as a family, we can't carry this burden of anger and hatred and resentment for the rest of our lives. To be honest, my brother and I and my mother, we just want to continue to be able to write the next chapters of our lives. And our love for each other is what helped us get through this whole ordeal. If it wasn't because of my brother and my mother, I don't think I would have been able to survive.

CO: You also think that there's some anonymous person you'll never know in Iran that may have helped this along. That may have just done a little bit of bureaucratic juggling to allow your mother to pass through.

RSE: I think that's very likely. You know, that there's only two options. Either we fell somehow through the bureaucratic cracks of the system, or there was someone inside who sympathized with our cause. I don't know if we'll ever know the truth to that too. Like so many other mysteries that we'll probably never know the truth of.

CO: Ramin, I'm so happy for you and your family that you’re reunited with her mother. And thank you so much for speaking with us.

RSE: Thank you for having me.

CO: Bye-bye.

RSE: Bye.

DF: Ramin Seyed Emami is the son of Canadian-Iranian professor Kavous Seyed Emami, who died mysteriously in Evin Prison in 2018. Ramin's mother, Maryam Mombeini, quietly arrived in Canada last month, after spending nearly 20 months in Iran under a travel ban. Later in the show, we'll hear about the latest unrest inside Iran. An activist tells us how she's getting videos out of the latest anti-government protests, despite a near-total shutdown of the internet.

[Music: Horns!]

Alberta election commissioner

Guest: Rachel Notley

DF: Rachel Notley was thrown out of Alberta's legislature today. The opposition NDP leader had accused the ruling United Conservatives of misleading the house about the firing of the province's election commissioner. The government says the move is all about cutting costs. But, in a statement today, the commissioner said that his firing raises concerns about the integrity of Alberta's democracy. It comes after the commissioner levied hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of fines against United Conservative Party operatives. The fines were part of his ongoing investigation into campaign law violations during the United Conservatives' leadership race. We reached NDP Leader Rachel Notley in Edmonton.

CO: Ms. Notley, Alberta's Finance Minister Travis Toews says he's just trying to save money. And he says that, quote, we are doing nothing here that will undermine any current investigations that are taking place. So why don't you buy that?

RACHEL NOTLEY: Oh, that's the most ridiculous assertion I've ever heard. Listen, what the act itself clearly does is in the best of scenarios, what it does is it demotes the elections commissioner. It takes away the continued certainty of his tenure — as well as of the investigation itself. We just heard about five minutes ago that the commissioner put out a note saying he can't say much. That he only heard about his dismissal and the elimination of his office in the media. But what we actually know is the legislation itself actually also clearly legislates shortening and a lessening of his severance. And we know that really is the intention here is to fire him. More to the point, I mean, this fellow has been running an investigation now for over a year into copious cases where the law was broken by UCP [United Conservative Party] operatives. And he has levied over 200,000 dollars in fines against at least 16 people.

CO: Okay, for the rest of Canada, just let them catch up with this. Because you're pointing out that there's something known as the “kamikaze candidate” — this is the Geoff Calloway. And allegations of violating election finance laws. Two-hundred thousand at least in fines already handed out. But now with Minister Toews is saying is that this is now going to pass to the regular chief electoral officer, who could rehire Mr. Gibson and carry on with those investigations, right?

RN: Right. Well, the thing of it is is that that's actually not true. What the Act allows for is for that to maybe happen. It gives the chief electoral officer complete discretion. And the chief electoral officer, just to be clear, has to be rehired by a majority USP committee in four months. And meantime, the fellow who was doing the investigation doesn't know if he gets to keep his job, does know that he's lost his independence, does know that he's not the one running the investigation anymore. And that's in a best case scenario. So don't tell me that that is not interference with the work of an independent officer of the legislature. The commissioner had nobody looking over his shoulder. He was operating independently. Now he will have someone looking over his shoulder if he's allowed to carry on in a lesser role. That's a clear, clear breach.

CO: Because you said this has been investigated for the past year. What is it that you still think has to be discovered? What is it Albertans need to find out in your view?

RN: Well, we don't know. What we do know is that the investigation is not over. What we do know is that a whole series of fines were levied against new people just a couple of weeks ago. And so what your question is actually the key question. Here we have Jason Kenney engaging in an unprecedented attack on an independent officer of the legislature, interfering with an active investigation that is quasi-judicial in nature. This is unprecedented in the history of Alberta, in the history of Canada. He is doing this why? What is he trying to hide? I don't know the answer to this question. What I know is that the investigation was not over. And now we have the most outrageous abuse of power that we have seen in a parliamentary democracy I would argue in this country. Imagine if Justin Trudeau had fired the ethics commissioner halfway through his consideration of the SNC level an affair. This is the same — exactly the same — scenario that we have here in Alberta. It is untenable.

CO: Just again for people outside Alberta, the background story just briefly is that Mr. Calloway — the person at the centre of this, this “kamikaze candidate” — was accused of running a leadership campaign whose main purpose was to attack Mr. Kenney’s chief rival, Brian Jean, who led the now-defunct Wildrose Party. What are the other questions you still have about that case?

RN: Party the question is who was organizing the money going to Mr. Calloway? We know that there was an illegal 60,000 dollar donation by a numbered corporation in breach of the idea of any corporation giving any money. We don't know exactly. We know it was funneled from one person to another to another. We don't know who organized that. But also, there's a current sitting MLA — a member of the UCP caucus — who also is under investigation by the RCMP but also under investigation by the elections commissioner for fraud in relation to his participation in the UCP leadership race. We also know that there are other UCP members being investigated for voter fraud and vote stealing. We don't know what the relationship is between the commissioner's investigatory work and the work that the RCMP is doing on that matter as well. So it just doesn't stop, honestly. What we know is it's not over and they're trying to end it.

CO: Just finally, Don Braid of the Calgary Herald is calling this a brazen political move. But it doesn't appear that Premier Kenney or his United Conservative Party is terribly concerned about this. That there seems to be an indication they don't think there'll be any political fallout for them. What does that say about you and the Opposition colleagues in the NDP?

RN: Well, I don't know if they are right in that guess. What we do know is that Mr. Kenney was very considered and intentional in that he left the province before the embargo on the bill was lifted. And he announced that he was going to be spending the next four or five days in Texas. So that's not nothing. So I don't think they are completely aware of how people are going to react to this. You're right. They are incredibly egotistical. They believe that when they got elected in May or in April, it meant that they could do whatever they wanted. I actually think that there will be a point at which Albertans say no to this level of arrogance.

CO: We will leave it there. Ms. Notely, thank you.

RN: Thank you.

DF: Rachel Notley is the leader of Alberta's opposition NDP. We reached her in Edmonton. We asked for an interview with Alberta's United Conservative government — but no one was made available.

[Music: World music]

Little Bronte book

Guest: Rebecca Yorke

DF: It's a little bigger than a matchbox, but definitely smaller than a playing card. A miniature booklet entitled the Young Men's Magazine — written by a woman who usually wrote much bigger books: the young Charlotte Bronte. Now that tiny treasure has just fetched almost 880,000 dollars Canadian at auction in Paris. And it's going home to England, thanks to years of effort by the Bronte Society. Rebecca Yorke is with The Bronte Society. We reached her at the Parsonage Museum — Charlotte Bronte's former family home — in Haworth, England.

CO: Rebecca, why did the Bronte Society want to get its hands on this little book so badly?

REBECCA YORKE: Oh, well a number of reasons really. You know, the Society has one of the largest collections of Bronte material in the world. And the little books Aare some of the most iconic things in that collection. So in this particular series of the magazine that Charlotte created, there were six books originally. And we know that because they're numbered and dated. And the museum already had four. One of them was in a collection called the Law Collection. And that entire collection disappeared in the 1930s. And nobody knows where that is. And then there's this this last one that came up for auction yesterday. It also came to auction in 2011, and The Bronte Society went to auction that time and were outbid. And it was devastating. So this was a second chance to bring it home to Haworth, complete the collection, and sort of finished that story really.

CO: And you had support, didn't you? Because you didn't want to see this disappear for a second time and not get it [said while laughing]. So you had some pretty high-powered people trying to help you get hold of this.

RY: Yeah, that's right. And, of course, you know, we have Judi Dench as our president. And she very kindly decided yes, she would agree to, you know, put her name to this campaign. And the Brontes are a known and loved the world over. And from our Twitter feed alone, we know there are high-profile people out there that love the Brontes. And so we were very fortunate and able to harness some of that support and love. And we've been actually overwhelmed by, you know, members of the public from all over the world either remembering a visit to the museum, remembering a visit to Haworth, but also just remembering reading Jane Eyre for the first time.

CO: This little book was written by Charlotte Bronte. And she was, of course, best known for Jane Eyre. But she wrote this — or created this — this little book — this little magazine — when she was 14, is that right?

RY: That's right. She was 14. So the children — the Bronte children — were all encouraged to read very widely. And they were given access to writers like Byron. And their family subscribed to periodical magazines. And so the Brontes created these tiny little magazines, which were like facsimiles of things they'd seen. So this particular series has got you know a contents page. It says edited by Charlotte Bronte. And you know it's got adverts in and you know short stories. So it's a really early indication that Charlotte wanted to be a writer. She wanted to be published. You know, they’re just sort of perfect miniature magazines.

CO: All of it, you're describing a magazine, but we're talking about something very tiny here, aren't we?

RY: I know, I know. Well, that's because Mr. Bronte bought the children some toy soldiers. And the children created imaginary worlds that were inhabited by these soldiers. You know, they gave their soldiers names. And so these magazines were created to be of the size for those soldiers to read. And hence, you know, the term young men's magazines. Those young men were those soldiers. And also, because of those Byroinc influences I talked about, sometimes the contents were a bit racy, as you might say [uneasy chuckle]. And so it also meant that by making them that size, they were too small for Mr. Bronte to read. [both chuckle]

CO: But they’re actual stories. It’s not just that they're made to look like when you're making things for a doll's or for children, has to appear to be something. These are actually written. In this one, there’s a handwritten story or a stories is in this book, right?

RY: That's right. And that's what makes it really exciting. These are proper stories in miniscule handwriting. You know, you need a magnifying glass. And even then it's a bit of a struggle. And this particular book that we acquired yesterday has 4,000 words in it. And in particular, one of the stories is about a murderer who is haunted by his victims. There’s a scene that's described as having a fire in his head that’s sort of burning so brightly — this sort of violent feeling in his head — that he sets his bed curtains on fire. Now anyone who's ever read Jane Eyre will recognize that as, you know, being reminiscent of Mr. Rochester's bed curtains and the bed burning scene in Jane Eyre. So it's again a really early indication that, you know, Charlotte's themes that she was trying and playing with as a young teenager with things that obviously stayed with her. And then she, you know, made them into her more mature work.

CO: But she was writing these Byron-esque stories — these racy stories — when she was 14. [trying not to laugh]

RY: I know. Well, Mr. Bronte, you see, was just quite forward-thinking and radical in the material he let his children read. They obviously were brought up to some extent by their servant and the housekeeper, who would have told them, you know, bits of gossip from the village. So, yes, I think that's what's extraordinary. And a 14-year-old vicar’s daughter wouldn't have been expected to be writing about adulterous dalliances and illegitimate children. But, no, they did.

CO: Well, obviously there are people around the world as you point out who would love to be able to see this little book and all the little book. So where will they be able to do that?

RY: So the museum is hoping to receive the little book this side of Christmas. There's some documentation and small matter of paying to take place first. [chuckling] And then the museum closes every January for maintenance and conservation and cleaning. And the new little book will be on display, you know, when we reopen in February. It hasn't been transcribed formally, or any other works inside it published, as I've just mentioned. So obviously there will be access as well for scholars and researchers who will really be wanting to start looking at that. But the museum will always have a little book on display. As I said, they’re our most iconic items in the collection — loved by visitors.

CO: Absolutely, just lovely. Rebecca, thank you.

RY: You're very welcome.

CO: Bye.

RY: Bye.

DF: Rebecca Yorke is with The Bronte Society, which just successfully purchased a title called The Young Men's Magazine, created by Charlotte Bronte, at auction in Paris. We reached Ms. Yorke at the Parsonage Museum — Charlotte Bronte's former family home — in Haworth, England. And we’ve posted more on that story — including a photo of that little book — on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih

[Music: Ambient]

Marie Kondo merch

DF: At the South by Southwest Festival in 2017, Marie Kondo explained the revelation that allowed her to de-clutter her approach to de-cluttering.

SOUNDCLIP

MARIE KONDO: I felt that hit. The important things about tiding is not choosing things to discard. But choosing things to keep. I must choose the only items what makes me happy. Things that sparks joy for me.

DF: That epiphany helped Ms. Kondo clean up both literally and figuratively. Her book, The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up, was an international best-seller. She got a Netflix show. And now, in a familiar step for any celebrity who's selling a lifestyle, Ms. Kondo is selling lifestyle accessories online. Of course, "lifestyle accessories" is usually a euphemism for "things that will eventually go in a cardboard box in your basement and stay for ever" — which would seem to go against Marie Kondo's brand. So the stuff in her store is being criticized for being... stuff. Most of it is elegant and minimalist. And I don't know your life, but most of it seems unnecessary. Especially one weird package deal: a tuning fork and a crystal for 75 bucks American. The write-up reads, quote, "Marie uses a tuning fork in her everyday life to help her to reset and she's never without a crystal." Apparently you hit the crystal with the fork, which restores balance. Not your bank balance, though. People are complaining that Marie Kondo will make a tidy sum from assorted junk that will make their homes un-tidy. To be fair, she did say her approach isn't about just chucking everything out — it's about having things that spark joy. So treat yourself to that joyful fork and crystal. Even if your space is impeccable, I guess it could still use some fine tuning.

[Music: Lively instrumental]

Part two: Iran protests, South Dakota meth campaign

Iran protests

Guest: Masih Alinejad

DF: The Iranian government has been unable to contain days of street protests sparked by a rise in fuel prices. But authorities are doing their best to stop the world from finding out what's happening inside the country: on Sunday, Iran almost completely shut down the internet. That still hasn't stopped some disturbing videos showing violence against protesters from trickling out. Masih Alinejad is a journalist and activist who's been posting videos she's been getting from other activists in Iran. We reached her in New York.

CO: Ms. Alinejad, given this total internet shut down in Iran, how have you been able to get your hands on videos from protests inside?

MASIH ALINEJAD: Look, some of the students, they have Wi-Fi at universities. And some of the journalists or some of the people who works for government, they use the Wi-Fi of this governmental institute. And they are able to pass the information and send some videos and footages.

CO: What are you seeing in those videos?

MA: Oh my God, these videos that I have been receiving are very heartbroken. It's beyond sad. People are peacefully protesting in the streets, and I see in these videos that they are being beaten up. They are being, you know, shot in the head. And I have received more than 600 videos. Twenty videos actually show you that how people are getting shot in the head and being killed in the street. According to Amnesty International, more than 100 people are killed. But I strongly believe a number of the killings are more than this. And I interviewed one of the family of those young students who took to the street. He was only 20 years old. He got shot in head, and he died. And his family told me on a phone interview that they couldn't even get his body to bury him because they are not allowed to.

CO: I mean, the Iranian government is saying the protesters are rioters. And they say that there has been destruction. But there are those people who are described in media reports saying that they have seen the same thing. That they have been out in peaceful protests themselves, and seen violent masked demonstrators showing up, breaking things, shop windows, looting. That people have seen another group arriving, smashing windows of nearby shops. There does seem to be evidence that there is violence within these demonstrations. How do you account for that?

MA: Look, let me make it clear, from the beginning, the protesters were just peacefully protesting in the streets. They were chanting against the increase of fuel price. And then they were chanting against the government, who has spent the money in Gaza, in Syria, in Lebanon. And one of the most popular slogans was that they are lying to us, our enemy is not America. Our enemy is here, Islamic Republic. So these were the slogans they were peacefully chanting. But in the video you can see people were even handing out flowers to security forces. But, at the same time, we can see that in the videos that these are the security forces beating them up in the street. So in this kind of situation, what you expect the people do? They try to self-defence. They were actually trying to burn some of the, you know, stuff around themselves to protect themselves from tear gas. And actually, let me tell you something, when you see people are being killed in front of you, what are you going to do? Of course, you’re going to get angrier. That is actually the result of the violence the security force used against peaceful protest in Iran.

CO: Why has the government of Iran, why has it increased gasoline prices? This is a very large producer. It’s the fourth largest producer of gas, of oil in the world. It's been a kind of, well, Iranians have enjoyed a very low price for their fuel. Why this big jump? What's behind that?

MA: Yeah, look, this is actually the question that people are asking in the street. They are saying if you — the government need money — and you can actually reduce the budget of those religious institutions in Iran. You can reduce the budgets of morality police, who are beaten up the girls and women in the street. You can reduce the budget of revolutionary guard. But right now, the poor people are getting more poor. And those, you know, middle-class, who actually have a link with the government, they are getting richer. But the poor are getting poorer. So that actually makes the people furious. And they took to the street and chanting against the clerics as well.

CO: I mean, you're not putting any blame at the feet of the president of United States and the withdrawal of the agreement with Iran and the re-imposition of these really crippling sanctions. Isn't that a huge part of the problem right now?

MA: Look, this sanction actually is hurting Iranian people — the general sanction. But who should be blamed here is the Islamic Republic. Let me tell you something, and give you the reason why I claim that, when Iran deal happened, people in different cities in Iran they took to the street and they were celebrating Iran deal. But right now, why there is no single slogan to get against America in the street? Why people are not mad about America just putting out from the deal? The reason is that because people inside Iran, they didn't see any benefits of Iran deal.

CO: You know that they are now saying that the people who are leading these protests, who are involved in them, could possibly face execution by hanging. I know in your own family your brother Ali was arrested and is in Evin Prison [MA begin to whimper]. I'm sorry.

MA: Yeah, I can hear you.

CO: I'm sorry I to have raised that. That's obviously very, very painful for you. You must be very worried about him.

MA: It is painful, you know? Because it's very scary when you talk about these criminals and you have family there. It's not easy for me to even think about my brother being in prison. They want me to stop spreading a message of Iranian people. But as far as I've received videos from people naming me and sending me the information. I cannot give up. I cannot keep silent. The head of the Revolutionary Court announced that on July that if anyone sent video to Masih will be charged up to ten years prison. Why? Because they are scared of the international reaction. That is the reason the government shut down the Internet. Because they don't want you to see the torture, the killings, the beatings, and they want to keep these people silent.

CO: Ms. Alinejad, I appreciate speaking with you. And I'm sorry about your brother.

MA: Thank you so much. Bye

DF: Masih Alinejad is an Iranian journalist and activist. We reached her in New York.

[Music: Sombre]

Montreal police checks

DF: Last night, Montreal City Council unanimously passed a motion calling on local police to end street checks. That decision comes on the heels of an independent report released in October, which found a systemic bias in how Montreal police conducted random street checks. They weren't random. Black, Indigenous, and Arab people were four to five times more likely to be stopped. Earlier today, "CBC Daybreak" host Ainslie MacLellan spoke with two people who have been calling on the city to end the controversial practice. Sharon Nelson is the secretary of Montreal's Jamaica Association. And Alain Babineau is a former RCMP officer working with the Centre for Research Action on Race Relations. Here is part of that conversation. The first voice you'll hear is Ms. Nelson's.

SOUNDCLIP

SHARON NELSON: When these people are stopped, that name is in that database, right? And so there was a point in media where oftentimes, people will say there was a black man who was stopped, right? So what happens, it connotes the idea if you have that many people in your database because you just stop them that they are a criminal. So the idea, there's a subtle message there also that if you were black, and your name is in a database because you crossed the street and they didn't like the way you are on the street, let's say as an example, you are suspect of something. And this is where the repercussion is. This is the subtlety that many black people have had to deal with within the city from a number of years — for many, many years.

AINSLIE MACLELLAN: Why are these checks happening? What is the stated goal or the idea behind doing these types of checks, from a police officer's perspective?

ALAIN BABINEAU: Unfortunately, a lot of those checks are based on stereotypes well entrenched in society. And police officers are not immune from being influenced by stereotypes. And then when they go out there trying to enforce or trying to combat crime, if you will, then, unfortunately, some of the stereotypes sort of take over. And, you know, some people become more subject to being stopped by the police.

SN: I think it's also important to say that you know oftentimes people say well, if you don't have anything to hide, then you will you know give you information freely. But there is a difference when it comes to a racialized person. If you're nice, you have an attitude if you're angry, you are this. So there's no win. And I think that those stereotypes really play into how people perceive racialized people. Who are you, and where do you belong in this society, and how smart are you, how capable are you? All those negative stereotypes about who you are as an individual. So on top of that, when you are in a database, and you're labelled as a criminal in quotation, you know you've done nothing wrong. You just you were stopped. It has an impact.

DF: Sharon Nelson from Montreal's Jamaica Association, and Alain Babineau from the Centre for Research Action on Race Relations. They were speaking to Ainslie MacLellan, host of "CBC Daybreak", earlier today. Last night, Montreal City Council unanimously passed a motion calling on Montreal police to end street checks.

[Music: Ambient]

South Dakota meth campaign

Guest: Laurie Gill

DF: South Dakota has a methamphetamine problem. But don't worry, they're on it.

SOUNDCLIP

[Music: A slow piano key pressing]

SPEAKER: I'm on meth.

SPEAKER TWO: I'm on meth.

SPEAKER THREE: I'm on it too.

SPEAKER FOUR: So am I.

SPEAKER FIVE: So am I.

SPEAKER SIX: I'm on.

ANNOUNCER: Meth is not someone else's problem. It's everyone in South Dakota's problem. And we need everyone to get on it.

SPEAKER SEVEN: I'm on it.

SPEAKER EIGHT: I'm on it.

SPEAKER NINE: I’m on it, too.

DF: That’s a taste of a new awareness campaign initiated by the state. All under the banner of singe tagline: “Meth, we’re on it.” It’s all over TV commercials and billboards. And the initiative has attracted a lot of attention — which ad campaigns are supposed to, of course. But according to many critics, this “we’re on it” thing is way off. Laurie Gill is the head of the state’s Department of Social Services, which is behind the campaign. We reached her in Pierre, South Dakota.

CO: Secretary Gill, the tagline for this campaign is, as you know, “Meth, we're on it”. And the double meaning is intended, right?

LAURIE GILL: Absolutely, it is. The whole thought behind this is that this is a statewide meth awareness campaign. This is all of our problem. And together, we need to get on it.

CO: You also have a lot of people who are on meth. What is the issue, what is the situation you're dealing with in South Dakota?

LG: Yeah. Well, you know, we have a lot of different entities that are aware that meth is putting pressure on their respective areas. Anybody that works with jails and prisons in our state know that the population within their walls, meth is putting pressure on that. People that do drug treatment centres, our capacity is very full, there's waiting lines, anything to do with social issues in our in our communities across this state, we are seeing pressure by meth.

CO: Okay, now the ad campaign, “Meth, we're on it”, is getting a lot of criticism. And what is the problem, what is the issue that people are having with your ad campaign?

LG: Yeah. I think what they're picking up on is the irony of the meth, I'm on it. Or meth, we're on it. It does have a double meaning. And I think that is why it has been striking. You know, we have felt that we wanted to do a provocative campaign. We wanted something that would bust through the clutter of advertising, get people to pay attention on social media, and talk about the issue of meth. And I think that's what's happening right now. People are paying attention to it. They're grabbed by the slogan, if you will. And they're talking about that. But, boy, we have had a lot of people reaching out wanting to know more about the meth issue. I think even in just a day-and-a-half of this campaign running we have people talking about this all over the nation.

CO: But people are talking about it because, well in some cases, because they think the ad doesn't work. We should say those pictures that come with this this slogan. An elderly man, who appears to be a rancher, who says meth, I'm on it. He doesn't look like he is, but it’s the double meaning there. Some high school students, and they’re football players, and meth, we're on it. So is it the people have a problem with this because you're suggesting that they're on meth?

LG: Though that would probably be one perception of it, absolutely. And we're just explaining that we chose those people. They are healthy South Dakotans that are obviously not meth users. But they're acknowledging that meth is all of our problem. And together we're on it.

CO: Are you surprised by the numbers of people who seem to think you might not have understood that it has a double meaning?

LG: Well, I would say that we're hearing from those people that are saying as well they get it. And that this is impactful. And to get to meth, you have to be impactful. So we're hearing both sides of it coming in. There's lots of dialogue both ways going on.

CO: You mentioned that because of the meth problem you have in your state, you have all these drug treatment programs that are chockablock. You've got kids who are dealing with meth. You have twice as many as 12 to 17 year olds in South Dakota report using meth in 2018 than the national average. Your prisons are chockablock with people who are incarcerated because of dealing with these drugs. So what else are you doing besides the ad campaign? What are you doing to reduce this incarceration issue?

LG: Yes. Well, we really feel that the in order to tackle the meth issue, there's three prongs to this. There's education and awareness. There's prevention. And there's treatment. So we have plans and all three of those areas. They are going on as we speak. We have additional funding in our current budget for all those areas. We have additional dollars that are going into the schools to do prevention curriculum and programming. And then we are also putting additional dollars to fund and support meth treatment services in the state. So we're willingness and a three-pronged approach.

CO: How much are you spending? How much will you put out for dealing with your meth issue?

LG: We have probably three million dollars in the current budget altogether going into different modalities specifically for meth. And then we have an entire budget that is broader substance use. We also have federal dollars coming in that are used for opioid prevention and programming. So we have quite a comprehensive programming going on in South Dakota.

CO: The ad campaign alone costs 500,000 U.S. dollars, right?

LG: Yeah. That's the dollars that were spent on creating that campaign. All of the shoots and getting all of the multimedia put together. And this includes TV commercials, radio ads, billboards, social media, the website, and all of the resources that go on the website.

CO: Your Governor, Kristi Noem, says this problem needs to be a dinner table conversation. Why would that change things? How would that achieve the goal that you're pursuing?

LG: Many people tend to put their head in the sand regarding the issue. There are parents that don't know how to begin to talk to their middle school kids about the issue. There are folks that don't know how to advise their loved ones that they now have a meth problem of where to find help. And that there are people out there that don't know that people care. And so the goal of this all is to bring everybody together, talk about the issue, be aware of the issue, and know where to go for resources so that we can start to make a difference in attacking this.

CO: Secretary Gill, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

LG: All right. Thank you.

DF: Laurie Gill is South Dakota's Secretary of Social Services. We reached her in Pierre, South Dakota. Together with Republican State Governor Kristi Noem, she's defending the State's new "Meth. We're On It" awareness-raising campaign.

[Music: Ambient]

Gillers winner

DF: Seven weeks after a shortlist of six books was announced, it came down to one. Last night, poet Ian Williams took home the 2019 Scotiabank Giller Prize for his first novel, Reproduction.

SOUNDCLIP

IAN WILLIAMS: So I've got like notes here of people that I need to thank. But maybe I'll just start like with my heart first. Margaret Atwood over there, the first book I bought with my own money at a bookstore in Brampton. [lots of clapping in the background] And I bought that book because I'd good public school teachers — like Mr. Lucic and Mrs. Colton — who pushed poetry on us. And this was my way right to the paper.

DF: Ian Williams, reacting to the news that his novel Reproduction is this year's Giller Prize winner. For Mr. Williams and his fellow nominees, last night's 100,000 dollar announcement was the culmination of weeks spent touring — and talking about their books with audiences across Canada. CBC's Shelagh Rogers hosted one such conversation last month in Toronto, and asked Ian Williams what that experience had been like so far.

SOUNDCLIP

IW: I think the luxury is nice, right? The stretch limo, we just could have stood at the top of the stairs and was like is that for us? You know, we couldn’t quite believe it. Yeah, last night, I got it, or early this morning. And I was in the room, and I was like where's the toilet? You know, it should be in this bathroom somewhere, right? But it was like behind this you know frosted glass door that had no handle, right? [laughing] So you just had to like sense the toilet somewhere, right? Yeah, so the luxury has been nice. But I think what's really sort of cool about this is that it feels like a national prize when we go from city to city. It's not a Toronto prize. It's not, you know, a Vancouver thing. It really feels like we are kind of stitching together what it is to be Canadian across all of Canada. So that's been lovely. [clapping in the background]

SHELAGH ROGERS: I want to quote Donna Bailey Nurse, who's one of the five jurors, and she said that each book on the list has a sense of locality, yet gestures outward. And I think that's so beautifully put toward a wider world in some way. How much does sense of place and location direct your story?

IW: Well, most of the novel is set in Brampton. But I think the interesting thing about Brampton and suburbs in general is that they're so close to centres of power, they're so close to major cities, that you always get the sense growing up — and I grew up in Brampton — that you're looking in on something. And you're close enough to kind of sniff it and touch it, but you don't quite have access to it. So it seems to kind of function as a metaphor for that immigrant experience, where you are close enough to power, but you can't quite locate yourself and belong and sort of stretch out inside of it.

DF: Ian Williams is the winner of the 2019 Scotiabank Giller prize. He took home the 100,000 dollar award for his first-ever novel, Reproduction, which is set primarily in Brampton, Ontario.

[Music: Jazzy guitar]

Part three: Astronaut/chemo study, Finland dying town

Impeachment

KG: Another hectic day in Washington today, as the impeachment inquiry into U.S. President Donald Trump continued. Lawmakers on the House Intelligence Committee heard from two witnesses with first-hand knowledge of the July phone call at the centre of the investigation — the one between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Mr. Trump has described the call — repeatedly, and exclusively — as "perfect." But Jennifer Williams — an aide to the Vice-President Mike Pence — and Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman from the National Security Council, describe it differently. Here's some of what Lieutenant Colonel Vindman said about that call in his opening remarks.

SOUNDCLIP

ALEXANDER VINDMAN: I was concerned by the call. What I heard was inappropriate. And I reported my concerns to Mr. Eisenberg. It is improper for the president of the United States to demand a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen and a political opponent. It was also clear that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the 2016 elections, the Bidens, it would be interpreted as a partisan play. This would undoubtedly result in Ukraine losing bipartisan support, undermining U.S. national security, and inventing Russia's strategic objectives in the region. I want to emphasize to the committee that when I reported my concerns on July 10th relating to Ambassador Sondland, and then July 25th relating to the president, I did so out of a sense of duty. I privately reported my concerns in official channels to the proper authority in the chain of command. My intent was to raise these concerns because they had significant national security implications for our country. I never thought I'd be sitting here testifying in front of this committee and the American public about my actions. When I reported my concerns, my only thought was to act properly and to carry out my duty. Following each of my reports to Mr. Eisenberg, I immediately returned to work to advance the president's and our country's foreign policy objectives. I focused on what I've done throughout my military career: promoting America's national security interests. I want to take a moment to recognize the courage of my colleagues who appeared and are scheduled to appear before this committee. I want to say that the character attacks on these distinguished and honourable public servants is reprehensible. It is natural to disagree and engage in spirited debate. This has been the custom of our country since the time of our founding fathers. But we are better than personal attacks.

KG: That was Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman speaking during an impeachment-inquiry hearing today in Washington.

[Music: Ambient]

Astronaut/chemo study

Guest: Jessica Scott

DF: Living in zero gravity can take a serious toll on an astronaut's body — from losing muscle mass to a weakened immune system to effects on the brain. Jessica Scott has spent years studying the side effects of spaceflight. And exploring how exercise can help astronauts brace for impact. Now she's looking at how those lessons could help a very different group of people — here on earth. Ms. Scott is an exercise physiologist at the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. We reached her in New York City.

CO: Jessica, who are the people you're hoping to help with the aid of your research with astronauts?

JESSICA SCOTT: Now, we're hoping to help the millions of cancer patients that are diagnosed each year in the United States — as well as the over 15-million cancer survivors that are in North America right now.

CO: What do astronauts living in zero gravity have in common with chemotherapy patients then?

JS: It's actually very surprising how much similarities there are between astronauts and cancer patients. So, for example, both astronauts and cancer patients, they experience decreases in bone, in muscle, in heart size, and they even on something that astronauts call “space fog” — which is very similar to what cancer patients call “chemo brain”.

CO: Huh! And so is that where the comparison ends? Do you really feel that there's a kind of physiological similarity between the two?

JS: Cancer patients and astronauts experience are caused by these multiple hits. So there's three key hits that both groups experience. The first one is a baseline risk factor. So this is where cancer patients or astronauts, they may have a pre-existing risk factor such as hypertension. Back in the 1960s, several astronauts smoked. The second hit is what we call a direct hit. So these are factors like chemotherapy for patients, or reduced gravity for astronauts. And the third hit is an indirect hit. So this is where patients may not feel well during therapy, and they may not be as active. For astronauts, there is no standing up in space. So spaceflight is like lying in bed for months. And when you take all of those hits together, that's where you get a lot of the side effects that are very similar between astronauts and cancer patients.

CO: And so when astronauts have all those effects, what are they advised to do?

JS: That is a very important question. And the mandatory intervention that astronauts do is exercise. So starting when they are assigned a mission, astronauts are also assigned what's called an astronaut strength and conditioning coach. And they immediately start an exercise program — so astronauts begin this exercise before their mission, throughout their mission, as well as years after they’ve finished their mission. And that's very different than what cancer patients in North America currently are advised to do — which is often just rest during therapy. There is no similar exercise countermeasure for cancer patients.

CO: Chemotherapy is exhausting, isn't it? People having it, not everyone, but a lot of people even though the drugs are not quite as powerful as they once were, or have powerful effects. It still really knocks you out. So are people not inclined themselves not to exercise very much?

JS: I think that's one of the greatest challenges is when people are undergoing this very toxic hit to the system, it is very challenging to want to go out and exercise. To have the motivation while you're undergoing all of these toxic side effects, but it is possible that though the worst thing you could do is rest and take it easy. And that goes back to back in the 1960s, when patients had a heart attack. Their initial recommendation was to rest and take it easy. But now, it is standard of care that if you have a heart attack, patients are now immediately mobilized and they start to walk around the hospital. So that's where a lot of our research and others research is really important to start to look at this and assess whether it's even feasible for patients who are undergoing this therapy to exercise. And does it help with a lot of the side effects?

CO: You do know that it helps with astronauts, right? You’ve actually seen that all the symptoms you're describing are mitigated by this before, during, and after exercise programs.

JS: Yes. So I was a senior scientist at NASA Johnson Space Center for several years, studying the side effects of spaceflight and exercise programs. And we know with that with I would exercise, astronauts would have a lot of difficulties when they returned to Earth as well as in space. And we know that exercise is a key component offset that decline in muscle, bone, heart, basically all systems in the human body benefit from exercise.

CO: And have you been able to test your thesis about cancer patients getting chemotherapy? Have you been able to see those who exercise do better, have better results, or better recovery than those who don't?

JS: Yeah. We've been running several clinical trials here at Sloan Kettering where we are implementing some elements of NASA countermeasures program in our clinical trials. And we've also started delivering treadmills to patients’ homes and conducting supervised exercise sessions from our mission control with video conferencing. So what we've learned is that the patients really enjoy it. They have not only physiological benefit, but they also comment that they feel a lot better and are less fatigued. So this is preliminary evidence, but it's looking very promising.

CO: But this is obviously when people have surgery from cancer, when they've had you've had a breast removed, or as you mentioned lungs getting tumors removed, that would limit their ability to get into this exercise program, would it not?

JS: Correct. So that's where the different timing of when we start to exercise is also a very important component. So, for example, in the lung cancer setting, there's often an interval between diagnosis and surgery. And that could be a three to a four week window where just initiating exercise in that very short interval could help was some post-surgical outcomes.

CO: I'm sure there are many people listening to this interview with great interest, and thinking about how they might improve their outcomes. And Jessica, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

JS: Thanks so much.

CO: Bye.

JS: Bye.

KG: Jessica Scott is an exercise physiologist at the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York City. She has also worked with astronauts at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. She's in New York.

[Music: Lullaby]

FOA: Southwest Airlines

DF: "A fractured fan blade". According to a press release issued today by the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, that was what caused a Southwest Airlines flight to execute an emergency landing last April. Debris from the damaged engine struck the fuselage near one of the cabin windows, blowing it out and causing the cabin to rapidly depressurize. A woman sitting near the window was partially ejected, and later died. Eight other people sustained minor injuries. Marty Martinez was sitting just a couple of rows behind the passenger who died. Shortly after the incident, he spoke with As It Happens guest host Susan Bonner about what he saw.

SOUNDCLIP

MM: It was about 30 minutes into the flight — typical flight. I take about 40 flights a year. Exactly like 30 minutes in, we all heard a loud boom. And about five seconds after that, all of the oxygen masks deploy. And immediately, everyone starts freaking out. And I knew that you know we were in trouble. I didn't know what that was going on. And then I would say about three to five seconds later, we heard another explosion. And one of the windows two aisles over from me just like exploded.

SB: you could see this? You could see the window explode?

MM: Oh yeah, I was two rows behind. We heard this loud boom, and then immediately, all the all the pressure within the cabin was lost. You know, there was a lot of wind coming in. And at this point, everyone was freaking out. And I'll never forget the look on the flight attendant's, face knowing that this was not normal. You know, she was visibly shaken. And then the one woman who was sitting in that seat, she just immediately passed out. And because the pressure was really kind of sucking people out… like, it’s a wind that sucks you out. That woman was unconscious, and she was like almost flailing out of the window. And I can see this from just two rows to her.

SB: What happened around her, what were people trying to do?

MM: Well, everyone was screaming, you know? And the other passengers were trying to hold her in — all while, you know, there's wind just circulating within the cabin like crazy. And a gentleman from like the seventh row ran all the way up to the 14th row where that had happened and was trying to secure her from flying out.

SB: What were you doing at the time while all this was happening around you?

MM: I thought to myself this plane is going down. I don't know what else to do. There was no reason for me to be hopeful. The entire plane was shaking. A window had exploded. One of the engines had went out. I'm sitting in the window seat, and I look to my right, and I don't see the sky, I see the ground. And that meant that the plane was tilted. And we were going down so fast. I had no idea, you know, if we were going to make it like at all. The only thing that was said on the intercom was that the very end, and it was “brace yourself for impact”, “brace yourself, brace yourself, brace yourself”.

DF: From our Archives, that was Southwest Airlines passenger Marty Martinez speaking with As It Happens guest host Susan Bonner last April. Today at a public board meeting, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board concluded that the accident on Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 was caused by a faulty engine fan blade.

[Music: Ambient]

Finland dying town

Guest: Tommi Rajala

DF: Every year, a rural town in the middle of Finland celebrates a "Pessimism Festival". the annual event lasts... 365 days. At least, that's what the Puolanka Pessimist Association will tell you. And they probably don't want you to visit, either. In fact, they might warn you to go away. Tommi Rajala is the director of the association. We reached him — reluctantly, I assume — in Puolanka, Finland.

CO: Tommi, can you tell us about the warning signs that people will see as they're driving into your town?

TOMMI RAJALA: Yeah. There's a huge sign saying next: Puolanka. You still have time to turn around. And the funny thing is if he or she turns around, there is about 70 kilometers to go back to the previous town, of course.

CO: [laughing] Why do you warn them that they can still turn around?

TR: That's an excellent question. We didn't want to invite them here because nobody ever comes here anyway. So maybe that's a more realistic view of how people think of the Puolanka. They want to turn around and go somewhere else.

CO: Now, this is because it's regarded as the worst town in all of Finland, right?

TR: [deep sigh] Yeah. In many statistics, Puolanka happens to be the worst or the bottom towns otherwise, fastest a dying town, or how many people are unemployed. It's always on the news that Puolanka tends to be performing really badly in every possible scenario. That has a lot to do with that, yes.

CO: But then on top of all that, on top of being the worst town in all of Finland, you're known to be pessimists, right?

TR: Yeah, well, if everybody tells a child that the child is stupid, then the child believes that he's stupid. So many people have told Puolanka that Pulolanka is the worst place to be. So maybe we start to believe that.

CO: Now, you live in Puolanka. So is it that depressing?

TR: [deep laughter] Yes. Yes, it is.

CO: [laughing] Really? Okay, well, just give us your best shot at selling us to Puolanka. I mean, let’s say I'm a tourist going into Finland. Give me one good reason I might want to go see Puolanka?

TR: Well, it looks like any town in Finland. It was mostly built in the 70s, and is surrounded by a lot of forest — beautiful nature — but so is every single other town in Finland also. So why would somebody come here? Mostly people come here because they have family here or relatives here. This is not a major tourist attraction in any way. Okay, well, we do have the highest waterfall in Finland.

CO: Oh, okay. There you go. Yeah.

TR: But compared to any waterfall in any neighbouring country it’s a really tiny one.

CO: Okay, but if I did go to Puolanka, I might be able to join your association, which is the Pessimists Association. Would that be fun?

TR: I don't know if that's fun to be a pessimist? But, yes, many people do actually. And we have some members coming from all over Finland, not only Puolanka. I don’t think we have any members abroad yet, so you are welcome to join us, yes, ofcurse.

CO: There you go. Things are looking up for the Pessimist Association in Puolanka.

TR: Yes. I don't think this is now really pessimistic to try to get Canadians to join the association though. [CO laughs] Pessimism is not always a negative thing — especially if you don't take the pessimism too seriously like we do.

CO: But I guess on the upside, you're never disappointed.

TR: Yeah, well, that's what they say.

CO: All right. But there are some things to see in Puolanka, right? I mean there is a bus that goes there six times a week. And you have a grocery store, as I understand. You have a gas station. I can get a cup of coffee at a restaurant, is that right?

TR: There is currently one restaurant in town and one gas station, yes. Two grocery stores, so, yeah, you can live here. I've said that Puolanka is not a dying tow, Puolanka is already dead town. [CO laughs] But when you accept that truth that it's not getting better, then you can perfectly well live here. It’s not a problem then. But if you think that this will again be like it was in the 70s, you will be really disappointed. And you are not a real pessimist then.

CO: If people are pessimistic, they will really enjoy being in your town, I guess?

TR: Yeah, well, not everyone in Puolanka likes what our association is doing. They consider that pessimism is ruining our reputation. But I don't know if we have any other reputation as the pessimist town. So I don't know what there is to be ruined. Nobody's ever heard of Puolanka unless they've heard it through the pessimists — not even in Finland — and definitely not in Canada if we were not pessimists.

CO: Well, now, everyone in Canada is hearing about Puolanka. So I mean that's cause for optimism, isn't it?

TR: Yes. Now probably they will fire me from the association now because this.

CO: [laughing] Because you brought all this optimism into your town.

TR: Yeah, too many people now here. and we will have next year at least one Canadian tourist coming here saying that I heard from the radio that may I join you. And we said no, you can't, bye.

CO: All right. Well, that's fair enough wording — including all the other signs you have in town about turning around. So I'll leave you to it then, Tommi. And I'd like to say it's great to speak with you, but that would be looking up, wouldn't it?

TR: Yeah, this was total disappointment, so please don't call me again.

CO: [laughing] You got it. Bye.

TR: [laughing] Okay, bye.

KG: Tommi Rajala is the director of the Puolanka Pessimist Association. We reached him in Puolanka, Finland. Head to our webpage for more: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Instrumental]

Long pond for sale

DF: In the early 1800s, the boys of Windsor's King's College School adapted their British game of hurling to the ice in Windsor, Nova Scotia — which makes Windsor the birthplace of hockey. Although, as you've heard on this program, various Canadian places make the same claim — doesn't matter to the people of Windsor. Far as they're concerned, hockey was born on their very own Long Pond. Today, the pond is owned by the Dill Family — which is also famous for its nearby patch of giant pumpkins. Now, the Dills have made the difficult decision to sell Long Pond — for a cool one million, 380 thousand dollars, plus tax. Danny Dill explained that decision to CBC Halifax host — and former As It Happens co-host — Jeff Douglas.

SOUNDCLIP

DANNY DILL: You know, it's been a long ride. Of course, it's been in the family, well, since 1878. And with the giant pumpkins, it's a lot to look after, you know? People show up here on a daily basis, and we're not sure if they’re here for pumpkins, or if they’re here for hockey, or they're here for both. And it's like, you know, the pumpkins and the farm come first.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Sure.

DD: So, you know, I discussed this with all the family, and we just decided to test the ice I guess, sort of to speak. And maybe, hopefully, somebody could come aboard and take it to the next level. And, you know, our dream is, and my dad's dream would be almost like a Cooperstown North sort of thing. They could build an outdoor, or whatever, you know? And really go for it. Go for the stars. Also, it's a registered Canadian trademark. You know, the possibilities are endless for merchandising and so forth.

JD: So how did you go about putting a dollar value on it?

DD: I've been asked that before. That's the million dollar question.

JD: That’s the million, 380 thousand.

DD: Yeah, it's priceless, you know? It's hard to put a value on it. I’ve followed hockey my whole life. And us being collectors of hockey memorabilia, like my dad started it the 1940's, you know I've seen hockey sticks go for 200,000 dollars. You know, a rookie card for half-a-million. And we're talking about the pond, the pond of dreams.

DF: That's Long Pond owner Danny Dill, in Windsor, Nova Scotia, speaking with our friend and CBC Halifax host Jeff Douglas — about why his family has decided to sell what they believe to be the birthplace of hockey.

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November 19, 2019 episode transcript

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