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The AIH Transcript for August 14, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

MATT GALLOWAY: Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, sitting in for Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglass. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight:

MG: A roadway gives way. At least 20 people are dead after a bridge in Genoa, Italy, collapses during a storm. Our guest will bring us the latest from that shattered city.

JD: Shutting their trap. In Chicago, a so-called “bait truck” full of fancy shoes was intended to lure thieves. But the short-lived sting operation leaves the black community where that truck was parked feeling stung.

MG: Target market. The owner of a Winnipeg company says he's proud of the sniper rifles it makes, and proud of a deal that will see those high-end weapons heading to fighters in Ukraine.

JD: Stand up guys. On the way home after a performance in Saskatchewan, four comedians spotted a motel on fire. And the kicker is, they get everyone out — and extinguished the fire — before emergency services even showed up.

MG: A helpful little murder. There's a new cleaning crew at a busy French theme park, made up entirely of crows. And it's no fly-by-night operation because you know they're not nocturnal.

JD: Oh, so true. And… a dangling proposition. Paris is famous for its historic fountains, but the new fountains are a lot less popular so far because they're just guys emptying their bladders into the city's new wall-less, open-air urinals.

JD: “As It Happens”, the Tuesday edition. Radio that presents the pee-ers de resistance.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Genoa bridge collapse, Ukraine sniper rifles, Paris urinals

Genoa bridge collapse

Guest: Gaia Pianigiani

JD: One witness described it as "apocalyptic, like a bomb hit." Earlier today, a busy bridge in Genoa, Italy, collapsed. A two-hundred-metre chunk fell to the ground and river below. Local officials say at least twenty people are dead, that number is expected to rise. One image shows a large green truck stopped just before the precipice, where the bridge drops off. Gaia Pianigiani is a reporter with the New York Times. We reached her in Genoa.

MG: Gaia, what does it look like at the site of this bridge collapse?

MG: People may have seen the video footage or some of the photos from earlier today, when it was light out. I mean it did look like the bridge just sort of disappears. I mean there's an enormous chunk — something like 200 meters — that just drops right off.

GP: Yeah, even just standing here and looking at it right now, it just doesn't seem plausible. I mean you could see like big chunks of cement asphalt, what used to be you know the road that people drive on in every town to go from Italy to France in the south has just come down. Residents and you know firefighters and rescue workers they all say it was a little bit as if it disintegrated all of a sudden. No one had the warning signs — at least the people you know on the scene and people who were driving — it just came down as if it was dust instead of reinforced cement.

MG: And you say that it's silent there now. That has to be incredibly eerie given everything that's happened in the hours before?

GP: Yeah, dozens of buildings have been evacuated. So all you hear are police cars and nothing else. I mean I can see the firefighters here from the towers working in the distance, but there is no other sound. You know you still have the two trucks that I'm sure a lot of Canadians have seen in the footage that just stopped before the bridge went down and they're still there. You know as if time had stopped in the city.

MG: What are the firefighters doing? You mentioned people drilling into the rubble. Describe what it is that you know that they're doing right now?

GP: It looks like they are trying to see whether there are any bodies under the rubble. These are huge chunks of the bridge that have collapsed on the railway tracks. So it looks like now they're trying to figure out whether they can break the chunks so that they can find more people buried underneath alive or dead.

MG: Do they know yet whether anyone has been pulled out of the rubble alive?

GP: I'm seeing pictures of some people being pulled out of the rubble that is going around in social media here in the city. But none of that is official. So right now, all we know is that they’ve pulled a dozen people alive and 23 people are confirmed dead. But you know the death toll is unlikely to be finalized for a few more hours if not days.

MG: What are witnesses saying about how this happened?

GP: Everyone says that they heard an explosion. You know people on the street here they say that they heard thunder and then soon after something that resembled an apartment explosion. Like something really impactful. And then you know they looked out of the window, and they saw the bridge was not there anymore. A resident that I spoke to said that he saw trucks and cars just lying on their railway and he couldn't figure out how they had gotten there until he raised his eyes and saw that the bridge had collapsed. It's just it's such a huge part of the city life and even like that skyline if you wish that it's hard for anyone in Genoa to figure out you know what the city is looking like today and will look like for years to come.

MG: We've heard some stories already about some of the issues that perhaps the bridge had in past when it came to maintenance. Some concerns from some engineers that the bridge was going to need major overhauls in the years ahead. What are you learning about that?

GP: Yeah, the bridge had truly undergone constant maintenance. Naturally, you know it's hard to imagine that was sufficient enough today. But you know the bridge was not built for this amount of traffic and for the amount of cars and trucks and containers that were going on the bridge. And surely that played a role. But also a lot of engineers have argued for years that the bridge was not safe for the way it was built originally. So that remains to be seen because the managing body of the highways and of this bridge has not given an exact explanation yet. They're looking into it. So as soon as you know they can tell us why the bridge collapsed, it will be clear what had happened. But I think there was a common understanding that the bridge was under a lot of stress, and that was the main reason why they were planning to double the bridge with a different bridge. But clearly, even if that is approved today, it's too late.

MG: It's been a bewildering few hours certainly in Genoa. I mean if you had to describe the mood in that city right now, what would you say it is?

GP: I think the mood in Genoa now is very sad. The bridge — regardless of how much people thought was not fit for you know that amount of traffic and for the role that it was playing for the city — everyone kind of seemed to love it. A few residents compared it to the Brooklyn Bridge in New York — like an icon for the city. Some people are also really furious because they feel that you know politicians in Italy are responsible for the poor maintenance of the roads and the bad infrastructure that the country has. So I think people In Genoa have got two main moods: some of them are furious, and some of them are really sad.

MG: Gaia, I appreciate you telling us what's happening in that city right now. Thank you so much.

GP: You're very welcome, Matt.

MG: Take care. Bye bye.

GP: Bye.

JD: Gaia Pianigiani is a reporter with the New York Times. We reached her in Genoa.

[Music: Sad piano]

Sex-ed curriculum

JD: Today at Queen's Park in Toronto, elementary teachers held a rally to protest the rollback of Ontario’s sex-ed curriculum.

SOUNDCLIP

SAM HAMMOND: Just to be short, this is a “yes or no”. I'm going to ask you if you want the 1998 curriculum…

[Sound: Protestors chant no]

SH: 2018?

[Sound: Now it is yes]

SH: ’98?

[Sound: Back to no]

SH: 2018?

SH: Yes, absolutely!

JD: That was Sam Hammond at the rally earlier today. Mr. Hammond is the president of the Elementary Teachers' Federation of Ontario — and he's said that his union will support teachers that continue using the new curriculum. As you've heard on this program, the new Progressive Conservative government in Ontario scrapped that curriculum earlier this year, after it was introduced by the Liberals in 2015. As September approaches, Ontarians have expressed confusion as to what will be taught in school this year. The government has said it's embarking on a, quote, "comprehensive consultation" with parents. Well, today in question period, NDP MPP Marit Stiles asked whether the government would keep the modernized curriculum while that consultation is going on or not? Here's how the Minister of Education Lisa Thompson responded.

SOUNDCLIP

LISA THOMPSON: I would just like to share with you that we are listening to thousands and thousands of parents across this province. And we have made it very clear that we’re going to respect their right to be heard. And I am so looking forward to kicking off this comprehensive consultation that will allow every person who wants to have their voices heard to have an open door to our ministry to help shape the manner in which we go forward with the health and physical education curriculum. And I have to tell you in tandem with this as teachers go back to the classroom I have every confidence in their ability as they work through their classroom and get to know their students and use the curriculum that was last used in 2014.

MARIT STILES: Mr. Speaker, it is shocking to hear the Minister respond like that as if nothing is happening out there. In what… two weeks students are back in the classroom. Teachers don't even actually have a clear directive to board from this government to know what they're supposed to be teaching. And you know what? We are not stupid people in this province. Believe it or not, we understand the 2014 curriculum is actually the 1998 curriculum, which was created before the students that are in classrooms right now were even born.

JD: That was Ontario's Minister of Education Lisa Thompson. A question and then a follow-up from NDP MPP Marit Stiles

[Music: Ambient]

Ukraine sniper riffles

Guest: Ross Spagrud

JD: The Canadian government isn't saying much about this country's arms exports to Ukraine. But a Winnipeg company says it's signed a deal to sell some of the most precise sniper rifles ever made to that country, as it battles Russian-backed paramilitaries. The million-dollar deal appears to be the first concrete product of the Trudeau government's new policy of allowing the sale of deadly weaponry to Ukraine's military. Ross Spagrud is the owner of PGW Defence Technologies. We reached him in Winnipeg.

MG: Mr. Spagrud, when your website says that these sniper rifles that you're selling to Ukraine have an effective range of nearly two kilometres, what exactly does that mean?

ROSS SPAGRUD: That means in the hands of an operator that has had extensive training, understands the current atmospheric and weather conditions where they're actually firing the weapon, and is properly equipped with a team to support him and the knowledge to use the equipment properly, they can make hits on a human-sized target out to that far.

MG: So you can shoot somebody from two kilometres away?

RS: Right. And, of course, as you know, not that long ago, a Canadian Special Forces sniper made a shot much further than that. So it is possible, although it's not something that is any sort of guarantee just because you have that particular weapon system.

MG: The target when it comes to these rifles that are being sold to Ukraine would that target be Russian-backed separatists?

RS: Well, that is something I certainly can't speak to. I can only speak to the fact that we have an order from the Ukrainian Minister of Defense, and an export permit from Global Affairs.

MG: Beyond that, you have no business in what those guns are going to be used for?

RS: Well, they're being purchased by the Ukrainian military. I think we can probably assume a few things from that. But that's not part of our negotiations or contract discussions with the Ukrainian military.

MG: But you'd think it's fair to say that one of those things you can assume is that the target would be those Russian-backed separatists?

RS: Well again, that's not something I have specific knowledge of. So I will have to defer to the Ukrainian military and Global Affairs on that particular question.

MG: I ask in part because those in Ukraine but there are allies here as well, and we know there's a substantial Ukrainian Canadian community here that has close interest in what's going on back there. They've pushed for weapons like this for a long time. How important do you think this deal is to that community?

RS: Well, I think here in Canada, as you just referenced, there’s a very, very strong Ukrainian community — and particularly here in Manitoba. The Ukrainian people that I've spoken to in respect to this they've all expressed a strong support for it. And they as a community are not pleased with the current situation in Ukraine obviously. And I think whether they're taking it upon their own community to send things to Ukrainian military such as boots or sleeping bags or tents or the various initiatives just a community has undertaken I think that support is strong.

MG: Do you think that that community and the support of that community helped expedite this deal or helped move that deal through the Canadian government?

RS: Well, it could be. That's hard to say. I don't have specific knowledge of how that decision was arrived at. They never approached us again seeking more information. They just went through their process, and eventually, they issued the export permit. But, of course, you know the Canadian government is sitting on millions of dollars with firearms that were we're supposed to go to the Ukraine and may still at some point. So perhaps this deal is something that will help other deals along.

MG: What would your response be to people like Peggy Mason, who is the former disarmament ambassador for Canada, who has warned that selling weapons to Ukraine could result in escalation? Do you worry about that?

RS: Well, you know it may sound callous, but not particularly. For opinion it is just that. Since the dawn of time, mankind has been engaged in war, and part of that is equipping yourself properly.

MG: But you have a role in that, that's why it would be interesting to hear.

RS: Well sure, we do have a role within that. But it's no different a role than any one of a number of companies in Canada that produce electronics or missile systems or guidance systems or satellite technology that enables people to be more effective on a battlefield. The fact that this particular contract involves firearms versus something else it doesn't make it necessarily more lethal or worse. And, in fact, I would argue that this particular technology — sniper technology — has far less potential for collateral damage on a battlefield than missiles and artillery and such things that we hit a building and kill 50 people, you know two of which maybe they want to kill. Who knows? So it allows people to identify targets in a discriminate fashion, and engage them and just them.

MG: What does it like to be in the business of selling something that specifically made to kill somebody from two kilometres away?

RS: What's it like? We're an innovative, Canadian success story. That’s what it feels like. We've been at this since 1992, and we have a worldwide reputation for excellence in our field. We're proud to support the Canadian Forces, and other allied nations around the world.

MG: This isn't to diminish it, but it is just business to you?

RS: Well, it's a business I started in 1992 from scratch. And I have a business partner currently who is a massive part of our operation. And you know I owe a great deal to him. But it's something personally speaking it's a company I started. You know I've lived and died on the back of this company and our employees and subcontractors we've worked with and other nations around the world. I guess you could also phrase that question how does it feel to have supplied equipment that has helped save Canadian soldiers lives overseas? And I'd say that feels pretty good.

MG: You mentioned that one of the conditions of the export permit is the guarantee that the weapons aren't going to be sold by those that you are selling them to — that they are not going to end up in somebody else's hands. This has happened though in past. You sold weapons to Saudi Arabia. They ended up in the hands of Houthi rebels in Yemen.

RS: Yeah, this is public knowledge. I would point out that Global Affairs undertook an investigation of that, and the United Nations was so involved as well. And at the end of it, it was determined that there was nothing untoward illegal in respect to the export.

MG: How do you feel about the possibility that these guns could end up in the wrong hands again?

RS: Well, if they ended up in the wrong hands, you know I would point out again in conflicts since the dawn of time people have lost equipment in war. We don't feel good about that. However, again, I would point out that this equipment is so highly specialized somebody not trained on one of these systems picks it up on a battlefield and attempts to use it. It would be almost worthless to them. It is so highly specialized.

MG: And one of the elements that perhaps could complicate this is that Canada has a military training mission in Ukraine right now. So what would be the result if Canadian soldiers ended up in the crosshairs of one of your guns?

RS: Well, that would be a bad situation for me. But I can’t envision that happening. But you know if it ever did, yeah, that would be a terrible thing.

MG: Is that something that you would feel at all responsible for having sold those guns in the first place?

RS: No

MG: Mr. Spagrud, we'll leave it there. It's great to talk to you. I appreciate it. Thank you.

RS: All right. Take care. Bye.

MG: Bye bye.

JD: Ross Spagrud is the owner of PGW Defence Technologies. We reached him in Winnipeg.

[Music: fiddle]

Salmon/trout

JD: OK, let's say your sister looks a lot like you. And she keeps impersonating you — everywhere. Like you go to get your coffee order and the barista says, "Yo Lizard, you already picked it up!" And you say, "It's Liz, and no I didn't." You go to your high school reunion and the organizer tells you, "But Liz, you already picked up your nametag, and the gymnasium is at capacity, so sorry." You go to your own birthday party and your best friend says, "But Liz, you arrived an hour ago — and you just left with all your presents." At some point, you gather enough evidence to prove to the world that you are Liz, and your sister is just masquerading as you. To which the world responds, "Okay, thanks… thank you for the info. Here's the solution: we're just gonna call her Liz now. You're both Liz!" Well, that's weird and unsatisfying, isn’t it? But it's pretty much what China just did to solve a problem involving two members of the same family: Salmon — and rainbow trout. A few months ago, Chinese media reported that, across the country, rainbow trout was being sold as salmon. Now, when they're filleted, yes, they look the same. And yes, they are both members of the same family: salmonidae. But they're not even really capable of holding a family reunion are they? Salmon are salt-water fish, rainbow trout are freshwater fish. And they taste different. Well, now the China Aquatic Products Processing and Marketing Alliance — or CAPPMA — has revealed its solution. From now on, rainbow trout can be clearly labeled..."salmon." Yep, CAPPMA's response to this fish misrepresentation is to say, well, they're both part of the same family, aren’t they? Rainbow trout is salmon. Case closed. And anyone who buys one thinking it's the other is falling for a state-wide bait and switch.

[Music: Indie rock]

Paris urinals

Guest: Fabienne Bonnat

JD: It is very true you can't spell Paris without "P". And it may also very soon be true in some places, you can't smell Paris without pee. And so, to counter all that public urination, the city has installed new public urinals. They look like red mailboxes with flowerbeds on top. And they're environmentally friendly — at least in the sense that they turn the waste into compost. But they do lack surrounding walls, which means, if you're in the immediate environment, you're really just watching a dude pee. Fabienne Bonnat is not a fan. She manages a local art gallery on Ile Saint-Louis in Paris — and that's where we reached her.

MG: Ms. Bonnat, described what these urinals look like?

FABIENNE BONNAT: They are very red, very open to everybody's sight. It's just a big red cube, and it's facing one of the most beautiful town houses of Paris. And moreover, is like 20 meters away from the primary school.

MG: And, as you said, they're very open.

FB: Very open. There is no stall around it. That means that if you know a man has to do what he has to do, it’s just open. So everybody who passes by has a beautiful view obviously.

MG: Why are they such a problem for you?

FB: First of all, the look of it is incredibly ugly. And the location is really badly chosen. And yes, it's open to everybody's sights. So I mean it's an open door to exhibitionism. Urinals obviously are needed because, unfortunately, lots of men pee around, you know? And they don't often wait a few minutes to go somewhere. So they have to do that obviously everywhere. S you know we are few hundred of Notre-Dame. We are on this beautiful I don't know whether you've been to Paris?

MG: Yes.

FB: Some of you listening to this show have been to Paris and know Ile Saint-Louis. It's a real jewel, you know? And having that just right there in the middle. It's very near the river, so even people you know surely in the boats they could have a look at it, you know?

MG: Who are these men who are — I’m going to use your phrase here — who are peeing around?

FB: who are these men? How could I know? You know people who walk around. And surely there are Parisians. Surely there are tourists. Ile Saint-Louis is a very attractive area for people. People stop there in the evening time because it's beautiful. The light is beautiful all year long. So sometimes people drink, and well, they have to pee somewhere.

MG: The mayor of the fourth district of Paris has said that these urinals are an invention of genius, and that they're eco-friendly as well because they will produce compost for local parks from the waste that is collected. Is that not a good thing?

FB: It is a good thing. Why not? Yes, it is a very good thing. The problem is not having urinals. Let's say if you have the most beautiful area of Toronto with these ugly things right in the middle, would you like it? I don't think so.

MG: If the men have to go anyway, what should be done instead? I mean could they be better designed so that they fit in, instead of just a giant red box that’s wide open?

FB: In places maybe more remote. You know people walk by there every day, every minute. I mean you have people walking around, and imagine the inhabitants who live right there? I mean they have this beautiful view of the urinal just under the window. And they can put them you know in some areas that are less seen.

MG: Scenic. Is the message perhaps for the men just to hold it, and not go there? But to hold it and go somewhere else?

FB: Yes, why not? Sorry to say, but women do. So why not men? I mean it's easy you know to just stop. And they do not consider the people first passing by and the people who live there. I mean, yeah, you know we live together obviously. We have the same city the same. You live there, you visit, you have to respect. I mean the first thing is respect. I mean it's not very difficult to understand I think. You have to respect the neighbours, your neighbours, the people who walk by. I mean it's who likes to see that? I mean I know it's a very natural need, but I mean everybody has this natural need, and not everybody does that. So obviously they can do something about it.

MG: Fabienne Bonnat, I appreciate you joining us. We'll leave it there. Thank you so much.

FB: You're welcome. Goodbye.

MG: Goodbye.

JD: Fabienne Bonnat is an art gallery manager. We reached her in Paris.

[60’s style pop]

Part two: Chicago bait truck, hotel fire rescue, trash crows

Chicago bait truck

Guest: Roderick Sawyer

JD: A truck loaded with Nike sneakers and Christian Louboutin shoes sits parked in the Englewood neighbourhood of Chicago. It was meant to lure thieves. Instead, the so-called "bait truck" has attracted scorn and controversy. Officials responsible for the sting have apologized. But that sting may never have been exposed if it weren't for local activists posting a video of the operation online. Roderick Sawyer is the alderman for the 6th Ward of the City of Chicago. And that is where we reached him.

MG: Alderman Sawyer, what is a bait truck?

RODERICK SAWYER: a bait truck is a truck used to snare people in to something that they normally would not do. In this instance, they put a truck in an area that's socially and economically impoverished, supposedly filled with new Nike gym shoes. And they supposedly left it alone with the expectation that people will come to look at it and break into it to steal the shoes.

MG: You say they. Who is it that left that truck there?

RS: The Norfolk Southern Police Department, in conjunction with the Chicago Police Department.

MG: Why was the trucks parked there in that neighbourhood? Describe the area?

RS: Very good question. The area was a community called Englewood here in Chicago — and a portion of Englewood, which has had some challenges in the past. It's socially and economically challenged. People are looking for work and opportunities in this area. It has a basketball court with kids playing about a block down the street. And just for point of reference, Norfolk Southern's rail yard is about a mile away from where this truck was parked.

MG: The railyard is important because there were cars in the railyard that were being broken into?

RS: Yes, the Norfolk Southern Police stated that they were doing this because they had several instances where rail cars were being broken into and items stolen. So that they were trying to use this bait truck supposedly in an effort to help catch these thieves, which again, we're talking about an area about a mile away from their rail yard. I would be more understanding about it if they used one of the freight cars in their rail yard because then you're attracting the would-be criminals that are attacking your rail yard. These are innocent people just trying to live their lives in an area about a mile away from your rail yard that are experiencing difficulties. I'm not trying to justify those who do an illegal act. I'm questioning whether this was a proper use of resources for Norfolk Southern and for that matter the Chicago Police Department when we have real crime going on here in Chicago. We don’t have to manufacture crime.

MG: That was a point that was raised by one of the people who shot a video that has gone all over the world showing the truck. They say that this is a waste of resources, and to your point that there are real crimes happening. Tell me a bit more about what it is that you found so concerning about putting this truck filled, allegedly, with new shoes in front of a basketball court?

RS: Well, it's concerning me on so many levels. When you put it in front of children — and these are children playing basketball, trying to enjoy their life — you put what I call the equivalent of putting a hot stove in from someone and telling them not to touch it. So do you have that element of curiosity that some kids might go into there, although no kids actually went into this one because they're a lot smarter than we are nowadays. But it gives me that impression that you're trying to encourage somebody to commit a crime. And I think that's wrong on so many levels. In addition to the waste of resources, which you know are obvious. And I really want to thank the person that did the tape, Mr. Charles McKenzie, who is an Englewood resident who exposed this outrageous conduct by Norfolk Southern Police.

MG: The manager of community and legislative relations for the railway, Herbert Smith, said to the Chicago Tribune….

RS: I know Herbert very well.

MG: We sincerely regret that our actions caused further unease. We don't plan to use this as a method in future. What unease did this cause in the neighbourhood?

RS: Well, it was more than unease it was outrage you know because one, people were smart enough to know that this truck was being used to bait people in to try to commit a crime, which they were not otherwise disposed to do. In my book, I'm a lawyer by trade, that's called entrapment. And I know it's a thin line on what they did it to what is considered actual entrapment. But again, you know we just had a weekend of violence the weekend before that was troubling. It was horrific. And for us to come off of that weekend to come into this bait truck situation was tremendously insensitive, to say the least. Everyone could have used their resources much better both to fight crime and to provide opportunities for those in areas like this. Instead, they chose to use all of our resources to sit around all day to catch three people to touch their truck. Three people touched their truck.

MG: Well, there were three people who were arrested for allegedly trying to break into the truck.

RS: Yes.

MG: Shouldn't they be held accountable for trying to commit a crime?

RS: Well you know, and again, like I said before, I'm not trying to justify someone that did something illegal. But at the same time, one of those individuals end up being a deaf man. What he told the police once they understood what he said he thought the truck had some food in it. He was hungry. He was just trying to get something to eat. You know this is not downtown. This is not one of the posh areas of Chicago. This is a challenging area that's starving for resources.

MG: What does something like this do in terms of affecting relations between the community and police?

RS: Just in case you don't know, we're experiencing an upheaval in Chicago. And we're about to be subject to what they called a consent decree between the courts and the police. And part of what we're trying to do is improve relations between the police and the community at large. This sets it back several steps because people are going to continue to be distrustful of the police because they think the police are going to try to set them up in something. So this was not helpful at all. It does not help us mend the broken arrangement that we've had with the police for so long. It was just uncalled for. I just don't know how to say it. you know In so many ways it's just unnecessary and uncalled for.

MG: Mr. Sawyer, we'll leave it there. Good to talk to you. Thank you.

RS: It's my pleasure.

MG: Bye now.

JD: Roderick Sawyer is Alderman for Chicago's 6th Ward, and chair of the City Council Black Caucus. We reached him in Chicago.

[Music: Piano]

PA abuse report

JD: Abuse , deny, cover up. That is the pattern of behaviour of members and officials of the Catholic Church, designed to obscure the crimes of 300 priests in six Pennsylvanian dioceses. Today, Pennsylvania’s Supreme Court released a grand jury report into institutional child sex abuse, over a 70-year time period. And that report details offences committed against more than one thousand victims. It's the most sweeping investigation yet of Catholic Church sex abuse in the United States. Until today, however, due to continued legal challenges launched by the clergy, the report had been prevented from reaching the eyes of the public. Here is Pennsylvania State Attorney Josh Shapiro, speaking about some of the findings at a news conference this afternoon. Just a warning: the abuse he details is extremely disturbing.

SOUNDCLIP

JOSH SHAPIRO: In the dioceses of Erie, the grand jury named 41 priests who sexually abuse children. One priest in Erie fondled boys and told them he was doing so to perform a cancer check. In 1987, after complaints were filed against him, he provided the diocese with a list of 41 possible victims. He confirmed at least 12 children he had performed this cancer check on. He had freely confessed to multiple instances of sexual abuse. Yet from 1987 until 2002 — 15 years — he remained in active ministry, and repeatedly was reassigned to new parishes. In the dioceses of Pittsburgh, the grand jury named 99 priests who sexually abused children. A group of at least four predator priest in Pittsburgh groomed and violently sexually assaulted young boys. One boy was forced to stand on a bed in a rectory, strip naked, and pose as Christ on the cross for the priests. They took photos of their victim, adding them to a collection of child pornography, which they produced and shared on church grounds. In the dioceses of Scranton, the grand jury named 59 priests who sexually abused children. A dioceses priest raped a young girl, got her pregnant, and then that priest arranged for an abortion. Bishop James Timlin expressed his feelings in a letter he wrote. “This is a very difficult time in your life, and I realize how upset you are. I too share your grief.” Except the bishop's letter was not for the girl, the bishop wrote that letter to the rapist.

JD: That was Pennsylvania State Attorney General Josh Shapiro, speaking at a news conference today about the widespread sexual abuse and cover-up within the Catholic Church in the state of Pennsylvania.

[Music: folk rock]

Hotel fire rescue

Guest: Ben Bauce

JD: How many comedians does it take to put out a fire? Four. It sounds like a joke, but it’s kind of the opposite of a joke. Because recently, after playing a show in Stenen, Saskatchewan, Ben Bauce and three friends found themselves in a serious situation. They noticed a fire on the pitch-black highway as they were driving home. It was a motel. And the comedians decided to try to help. We reached Ben Bauce in Tsawwassen, British Columbia.

MG: Ben, tell me about your drive home after the show, uneventful presumably, and then things change. When did you see the fire?

BEN BAUCE: Well, we had weekend kind of haphazardly taken a different route when we left Stenen then we did when we were heading there earlier that day. So we headed north, and then had to cut back and go into Wadena to get back on the highway. And the two boys were kind of dozing in the back, and Dylan and myself were in the front seat. And he's just made a comment like wow, that looks like a fire! As we were driving up, and when I looked at it, it was quite small it was just like kind of on a pressure treated post outside. Just from that course of us driving by it, we saw was it was getting bigger quite quickly. So I was like we need to get back there man. It's 1:00 o'clock in the morning, like everybody sleeping in that hotel. Like we got to go get that fire out or get the people out. So it took about maybe 90 seconds to like to do a uwie on the highway and get on the approach road to go into the motel. And by the time we got there, it was really clear that we had to get everybody out of there.

MG: Describe what you saw when you got there?

BB: The flames had kind of licked up into the awning. And so pieces of the awning were on fire. And it was kind of attaching on and the siding was already melting off the main structure there.

MG: And so what happens then?

BB: Well, immediately jumped out of the car, started banging on windows on the motel, and just said like get out of the room, get out of the room. And once we had known we had kind of people that were coming out and getting the rest of the people out, the boys just ran inside and just like started grabbing anything they could. Like we dumped out the garbage and used the garbage pail and anything that resembled a bucket to try and just get some water out and start trying to get it under control. Funny thing was every single thing they grabbed had like two big holes in the bottom of it, so we were leaking water all the way out trying to get it out to where the fire was

MG: How big of a place was this motel? How many rooms were in it?

BB: I think it was about 50 rooms, 40 or 50 rooms. I think really about 10 people inside.

MG: So tell me try to put this fire out? You get the leaky buckets, you're trying to wake people up at the same time, how did you go about getting that fire out?

BB: Well, we started kind of just running buckets of water and stuff. And I went over to the manager and was like hey man, where's your hose? He was quite disoriented, and I'm pretty sure English was his second language, so I ended up having it kind of like do charades and be like your hose like to spray water. And then he was like oh, and ran and grabbed like a six foot chunk a hose, and then eventually like pointing to the rear of the structure, which was not going to help us out at all. So I went to the manager and just said like you run a motel, like where's your fire extinguisher? And had to kind of act that out as well a couple of times, and then he finally understood what I was asking for, and ran to the back, and came out with a five pound fire extinguisher. And at that point, we had thought that you know it was almost too far gone. We weren't sure if we were going to be able to get the fire out. Turns out the fire extinguisher did about 90 per cent of the job. It flared up a little bit after that we had to spent the whole extinguisher, and the boys kind of got more buckets of water on it and stuff. One of the young gentleman that was in the motel staying there jumped right in and started helping like just basically wearing a pair of shorts, no shoes, no nothing. And was like where did you guys come from, as he's running by. We're like oh, we're comedians, we were doing a show, and then he kind of ran back in. and the next trip and looked at me and said hey man, do you guys have any weed? I was just like I don’t know, man. Let’s get the fire out first how about?

MG: If it wasn't so serious, it sounds like a comedy routine.

BB: Well, I'm on the way back to the coast here now. And I stopped and did a spot in Calgary last night, and did five minutes telling that story. And people really enjoyed it actually.

MG: Everybody was alright getting out?

BB: Yeah, everybody was OK. As soon as we had the fire extinguished, the police officer showed up with the fire department very shortly behind him. Snd people were all very happy that they got woken up and taken out, and that we had that we had got it extinguished.

MG: It’s a good thing you guys got lost on the way home.

BB: Yeah, that's it. Like just a twist of fate, right? Right place at the right time, and some good guys that just sprung to action. It was really lucky for everybody involved.

MG: Ben, nice job. I appreciate you telling us the story. Thanks so much.

BB: Yeah, thank you very much for your time.

MG: Take care. Bye bye.

BB: Bye bye.

JD: Ben Bauce is a comedian. We reached him in Tsawwassen, B.C.

[Music: Percussive]

Trash crows

Guest: Nicolas de Villiers

JD: The Puy du Fou Park is one of the most popular theme parks in France. More than 2 million people visit it every single year to take in its elaborate historical shows. Two million people; that's a lot of people to clean up after. So park management has trained up some new recruits to collect litter. Or should I say...re-crow'ts? No, I shouldn't actually, because it's not clear what I mean when I say that. It’s also not really funny. so I'll just say I mean crows — rooks, to be exact. A half-dozen of them. And they started their clean-up job last week. Nicolas de Villiers is the president of Puy du Fou Park. We reached him in the park.

MG: Mr. de Villiers, how are the birds doing? They've been on the job for a couple of days now?

NICOLAS DE VILLIERS: Yes, they do a great job. You know a subtle job for them actually. It's a game, you know? Because they like to play with the human beings as soon as they feel love from human beings. As soon as they feel that, it's the kind of challenge for them.

MG: So tell me a bit more about this? How do crows pick up garbage?

NDV: When they see something which is not natural in the environment, they just pick up this thing like a little piece of paper or something like that. And they bring it to their little home, you know? And when we watched that, we just thought oh, it's possible maybe to organize a game with them. And this is the story. This is the way it started. But the idea is not to clean the park you know because we have a team for that, of course, we have the staff. The idea is more to educate the human beings to show them that if you let fall of paper in the natural venue you'll see the birds cleaning the nature, and it's a good lesson for human beings.

MG: So what are they picking up?

NDV: They find some waste, you know or the papers or cigarettes. And, fortunately, the park is clean because the people are very respectful. But some of them sometimes — like smokers for example — they just throw their cigarettes, and so they see the birds getting the cigarettes and bringing it to this little box we have made for that. And the box is divided in two parts. There is a part for the waste and a part of a piece of food. And so as soon as they bring something in the empty part, they get a piece of food.

MG: How is this different than crows doing what they normally do, which is pecking away at garbage that's left around the side of the road or in a park?

NDV: You know what is very interesting is that the crows are usually seen as some you know bad birds that are dangerous for humans. Some thieves, you know? But actually they are very smart and they can be our friends. And so they just play with the human being who is the falconer actually — because the falconer is their friend, and they want to show their friends that they are able to bring more and more and more papers or waste, etc. And that's the way it works. You know so the people see that and it's kind of a little show. We have big shows in Puy du Fou, but this one is little one. But it's a very emotional one.

MG: This isn't the first time that crows have been trained at the park, right? There's a show that involves crows that have learned some sort of skill?

NDV: We have a lot of birds in the show because we have a bird show with more than 200 birds flying at the same time in the sky, you know? So it's maybe the biggest bird show in the world. And so we are used to training the birds. But actually, we don't say to train a bird, you know? we say that the birds choose what they want to do. This is very important for us because yeah, it's for us very common to work with birds as a game.

MG: There have been a lot of studies around this of crows being very intelligent, and they can recognize faces, and they can occasionally we heard give warnings to people. They’re also to some people a sign of bad luck, and they can be pretty nasty things as well where they fight with ravens. There are studies done about the number of times that crows would attack ravens. Do you worry about the nasty side of these birds at your park?

NDV: We don't see really this, you know? Because as soon as they are surrounded by love you know they are very positive. And they have a very positive behaviour, you know? They can't be aggressive if they feel attacked or you know in danger. But if they don't fit in in any danger they are not aggressive.

MG: You said a couple of times that this isn't a job for the crows that it's a game. Perhaps that's important given the fact that France has pretty progressive rules when it comes to workers’ rights. Do your crows have rights as workers?

NDV: Yes, of course. They have three days off, for example, they have the piece of food as a reward, you know? So yes, they respect the rules, so we respect the rules, you know? Yeah, of course, it's a kind of partnership. It’s very, very important.

MG: It's a fascinating story. Crows are amazing, and it's neat to see what they have learned to do at your park. Nicolas, thank you. Great to talk to you.

NDV: Thank you very much, Matt.

MG: Bye now.

NDV: Bye bye.

JD: Nicolas de Villiers is the president of the Puy du Fou theme Park in western France. To see the crows in action, check out the pictures on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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August 14, 2018 episode transcript

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